March 6, 2026 • 34 mins
Raising boys on your own can feel overwhelming—but you are not alone.
In this episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide podcast, host Suzy Shaw talks with Pat Hankin, author of The Field Guide for Single Parents, about the real-life challenges and strengths of solo parenting. Drawing on insights from a community of more than 470,000 single parents, Pat shares practical advice on managing finances, building a reliable support network, navigating conflict with an ex-spouse, and helping boys grow into confident, respectful young men.
This honest conversation explores how single moms can move from overwhelm to confidence—one small step at a time.
In this episode, we discuss: • Building a strong support network when parenting alone • The financial realities of raising kids in two households • Finding positive male role models for boys • Managing high-conflict co-parenting situations • Teaching boys respect, responsibility, and resilience • Why “small steps” can make solo parenting more manageable
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Raising Boys as a Single Mom:
Practical Advice for Solo Parenting (00:00):
undefined
Hi, I'm your host Suzy Shaw, mother of two now adult boys and author of the book Mother of Boys
Survival Guide. Today we're talking about something that many moms don't plan for but
find themselves navigating with courage and grit—raising children on their own.
(00:26):
Whether it was a personal choice, you're divorced, widowed, or simply parenting without a co-parent
in the picture, single motherhood brings unique emotional, financial, and relational challenges.
My guest today is Pat Hanken, business professional, parenting expert, and author
(00:48):
of The Field Guide for Single Parents—kind of a similar title to my book. Pat brings a
refreshingly practical, research-based, no-fluff approach to solo parenting.
Drawing from her own lived experience and engagement with an online parenting
(01:08):
community of more than 470,000 members, including many single moms raising boys,
Pat focuses on systems, clarity, and confidence over chaos and feeling overwhelmed.
If you've ever felt like you're carrying everything—emotionally, logistically,
(01:30):
financially—this conversation is for you.Welcome to the show, Pat.
Oh, thank you, Suzy. I'm so happy to be here, and I like your terms—grit, courage.
I know motherhood is definitely a lot of grit and courage.
You don't know how strong you are until you do it, right?
(01:53):
So Pat, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and what motivated you to write
your book, The Field Guide for Single Parents?Oh yeah, sure. As you mentioned, I'm a business
professional. My background is in finance. I was in banking for a long time and then I moved into
global management consulting, so I've worked on three different continents and in many cultures.
(02:17):
It's a fancy way of saying I help companies solve problems, and a lot of that starts with listening.
Like many people, when the pandemic hit, the world slowed down to a much more reasonable
pace, I might say. I found myself with extra time. My clients were having slow contracts,
(02:39):
so I was having slow contracts, and my daughter—like your sons—was off to university.
So I thought this is a perfect time to see what I can do for someone else,
and I opted to moderate this online community you spoke of of over 470,000 single parents.
(03:02):
I did it for three years. I found… first I went in just as a traffic cop—to keep the creeps out,
make sure people stayed on topic, and that there were high-quality posts. They didn't need much
of that. It was amazingly well self-policed.But at some point, I got the courage to say,
(03:25):
well, I think I can answer some of these questions now, being on the other side of
parenting, with my daughter off to university. And the response to the resources and information that
I would provide was overwhelmingly positive. So I started codifying the information and tracking
what were universal themes, applying all my research skills to understand
(03:50):
what was going on with this group of people.One of the things that stopped me cold was
when someone asked, Where can I read all this information? What I found was that there was
no single place you could find it, and what you did find certainly was not fact-based, vetted,
(04:12):
or objective. So I took the lessons learned and the incredible advice people would give
each other in this community and put it together in a book, which took me three years to write,
and it came out last year. It's called The Field Guide for Single Parents.
I had very successful early reviews from Publishers Weekly and a few
(04:35):
other places that told me there was clearly a need out there for this.
So what patterns do you see in the discussion threads with single moms?
What surprises women and parents most when they begin parenting by themselves?
I noticed there were four or five universal themes.
(04:58):
One was health—your own and your children's. There were a lot of questions about making sure
people stayed healthy, obviously, given the time period when these
discussions happened, around 2021 to 2023.There were questions, a lot of people were
overwhelmed by, How do you do it all? If they had a partner and the partner's
(05:22):
gone—or they never had one—nobody comes with an instruction manual to do this. So
time management was a particularly hot topic, and one I felt comfortable answering because
I’ve worked designing systems for companies to solve problems, particularly around that area.
(05:44):
The other one is obviously finances and money. You take on a lot more complexity with children,
whether you're married or not. There's so much information out there, a lot of it
gets thrown around, but for single parents a lot of it doesn't work. So we talk about
(06:06):
where things need to be adjusted or modified.And then there are relationships—relationships
with yourself, with friends, with peers. There are stereotypes
out there that people confront. There's also relationships with an ex-partner or spouse.
We did a podcast on divorce and managing that, especially when there's a lot of conflict in the
(06:49):
divorce. It certainly brings its own complexity.I listened to that podcast before you and I ever
spoke. I thought it was excellent. One of the things that struck me was that the guest had
been in a legal battle for 10 years, but she made the point that you can't let your anger and your
(07:17):
battle toward your ex-husband come home to your kids. Dialing it back and sometimes walking away
from a dispute—like they say, it takes two to argue—was really excellent advice that I think in
any situation people could take and do something with. I thought that was a great episode.
(07:43):
One of the surprises people have when they get divorced is around money. You have a
certain amount of household income that is already spoken for. Now you take that,
and you make it do double duty for two households. Expect a reduction in lifestyle as I talk about
(08:12):
in the book. You can’t create it out of nowhere.The other big surprise is how low child support
payments are in this country. It’s another big surprise and it doesn't go very far toward
(08:32):
financing a household the way people were used to.Right, I've had several friends who have had
to navigate that struggle, the financial struggle. And although I was married—and still
am—when we were raising the boys my husband traveled a lot and was also getting his
(09:01):
master's degree. So I found myself juggling the kids and my job by myself not all the time,
but enough of the time to truly appreciate what the struggles are. And, I don't think I could
have done it without my friends—other mothers primarily—and some family—being able to help
(09:31):
pitch in when I became totally overwhelmed.That's when I started calling it the
MOB—the Mothers of Boys. It took a MOB. It didn't take a village.
What unique concerns did you hear from single moms raising boys when
(09:56):
you were moderating that discussion board?First of all, I'm delighted you had that kind
of support. It is really critical. We talk a lot in this book, in the health section,
about building your support network—your team, or your MOB. That wasn’t just about boys.
(10:21):
What you’re forced to do as a single parent is really look beyond the usual suspects because
it might not be your family. It might be that you’re the only single parent in your community.
People have a lot of questions, concerns and discomfort around the topic, but what I heard
(10:45):
a lot when it came to raising boys was—the first reaction when people realize they are going to do
is some palpable fear that you really do need a strong male role model in this situation,
and your a mom, and what do I do?It was everything from helping boys
(11:11):
know their bodies—and you can tell me topics that you personally had questions about—
to how to raise them to be a good human.I will say that one of the funniest things
with a little boy is teaching them how to pee in the toilet.
That exact topic came up!You become very very aware that you
(11:36):
do not know how to go to the bathroom standing up, but you're very committed that they get it
right so your cleaning isn't horrible. So, it becomes something you have to deal with right out
of the gate, whether somebody is around or not, is getting the boy to pee in the toilet. I hear you!
(12:04):
People would talk about that, and everybody would chime in about how they managed it or
how they did it. What wasn’t useful was everyone saying, “oh, you’ll do it.” These people were
asking for specific instructions and, I think, acknowledging that this was something that
they didn’t have any exposure to themselves.So one of the solutions, or the solutions that
(12:32):
really came up for if you're, you know, opposite gender raising, right, so men raising girls,
et cetera, is to be able to surround yourself with reliable role models. Now, this is tough because
some people will float in and out of your life as it suits them, and that's not always helpful.
There was other suggestions included Big Brothers, and getting yourself someone,
(12:59):
and they're very careful there about assigning someone who's going to stick around, you know,
for whatever period of time, because having someone come into a child's life and then walk
out is a loss if they cared about that person. So, you know, not so much when they're infants,
but certainly as they get older. And those, I thought, were some very useful ways to, you know,
(13:23):
build, fill in the pieces that are missing there, and you probably have others to add.
Well, I was very cognizant of having role models for my boys, and so we called them “coaches,”
(13:43):
and it could have been somebody to go talk to, you know, that was a mental health coach,
or it could have been an organizational coach, that was a tutor. But I just called
everybody coaches for the most part.One of the other things that we did,
I encouraged the boys to have male babysitters, and we, and also, when they got old enough,
(14:09):
to babysit. And that gave the boys a sense of confidence. It also sort of doubled as a little
bit of birth control, because when you, when you have to take care of another smaller person,
there's like, “holy cow, I don't want to do this.” Right? And so the, you know, just having
(14:33):
male babysitters and then also babysitting was a win-win on both of those spectrums.
And then using family, you know, uncles and things like that. I call the boys in my book
Ernest and Exuberance. And Ernest was the older child, and he was a little bit shyer and quieter,
(15:01):
not quite as confident. And at one point when he was in high school, probably like junior,
senior year, we asked his uncle if he could find him an internship at the place where he
worked. And then Ernest would get on the subway, go through Washington, D.C. to his aunt and uncles
(15:24):
in Virginia, in Northern Virginia, stay there for two days, do the internship, and come back.
And that experience was so powerful for him to have to, to just feel more confident in himself.
(15:45):
Everything from just getting on the subway and packing up and taking everything you
need for a couple of days, and then, you know, doing the job and having that work experience.
So, you know, I would suggest, you know, the babysitters, the male role models,
the coaches, the internships, to just try to tee some of those things up as,
(16:12):
you go through their young adult period.When you talk about babysitters, once my
daughter got into elementary school, and then middle school, I worked full time as you did,
and I had that gap, you know, between the time school ends and then it’s be 6:00 or
(16:34):
7:00 when I'd get home, because I too had to go on. And I hired graduate students
from one of our schools of education here.First of all, I'm not very good at patience with
homework. I mean, I used to say to my daughter, I've already done fifth grade. I don't need to do
it again. And these people just have a gift. They just had a gift. So, to your listeners,
(17:00):
looking at your local school of education, you know, we have, I'm in the Boston area,
we have 150 universities and colleges here. So there's a lot of education and teacher training
going on. But they were good companions as well as good tutors, babysitters, whatever.
(17:21):
So, that's a great point.Those win-win relationships, right?
Yeah. And if you get a dud, you move on and get another one. Right?
They had to be around in the summer though; that's always the challenge. But then there's camp.
Right. And we did a lot of camp too.So what do you recommend for single moms,
(17:43):
you know, managing a tricky relationship? At what point in the relationship, in the personal
relationship, would you bring somebody in to meet your daughter? Or, you know, did you have any
lessons learned? And it probably depended about how, you know, the age of the kids in your house.
(18:04):
Yeah. So there's two questions. So the issue around managing your ex,
and then a high-conflict situation.I interviewed a woman for this book who
talked about a high-conflict situation. She had her child with a guy that
(18:25):
had really shady business dealings and ended up in “Club Fed,” federal penitentiary,
for I believe it was white-collar crime. And his second wife also ended up there. So,
believe it or not, the judge also then went and granted joint custody. I don't understand the
(18:50):
legal system for this. Needless to say, it was a high-conflict situation there.
And she introduced me to the concept of parallel parenting. Have you heard of this? Where you don't
have to be in the same room at the same time. For instance, only one of you goes to the kid's
concert, right? And it is a type of agreement that goes in these kinds of high-conflict cases.
(19:19):
The other person I interviewed was a very renowned divorce attorney here in Boston. And
he actually moved primarily into mediation. And I suggest that you go with mediation.
In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the outcome from these cases is pretty much predetermined
(19:43):
by a formula and the division of assets and everything. So, fighting to the death here, which
I've seen many people do, over what's going to be a predetermined outcome, seems a bit insane to me.
And I asked this mediator why people do that. It's not going to improve their standing and get more
money or anything. And he said, because they're hurt. They're fighting because they're hurt.
(20:09):
And my first advice to people, if that's you, is get yourself a therapist. It's probably
cheaper than $650 an hour (for a lawyer). Dial it back for your kids, because this can really
be a situation where your kids are going to get affected and start acting out about it.
(20:32):
You know, what tips do you have for a mom struggling with their ex-spouse?
Probably the most stressful thing is people who don't show up on time or don't show up at all to
pick up the kids or take them someplace, because now you've got to change your plans, either
from work or whatever else. And a few “oh wells” might get you further than fighting every single
(20:59):
battle when this goes. And I'm talking outside the court, when you've got these agreements going on.
There is something called the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's a subconscious bias where we all
overestimate our contribution to a relationship. I mean, it goes for everything. You know,
(21:19):
when you're coming to evaluate, or you're keeping score, realize that this is something that we all
do. And there's no perfect way to do that.Well, I think just about all relationships
are like that, right? So I mean, whether it's a coworker, whether it's your employer, whether
(21:42):
it's your neighbor, it's your spouse, it's never exactly the way you would like to imagine it is.
And...Yeah, don't be a doormat, but...
Right. I think there's a certain amount of emotional acceptance that you probably have to do,
and to make sure this is the goal. Whatever your goal is, this is the goal, and I'm going to move
(22:08):
forward toward that goal and maybe not let the rest of that stuff weigh me down quite as much.
Yeah, you can take small steps toward that. So it's a mindset.
But, you know, were there any themes and a difference between mothers who were raising
(22:28):
boys as single moms as opposed to girls?The question would come up as a question,
as opposed to people just saying it was different. It was pretty much defined by
who was asking. And again, circumstances. A lack of confidence was the big thing
(22:49):
that came up when they were first starting out.And I'd ask your question as a mom of two boys,
do you feel that having an engaged co-parent, did you feel that there were certain things that
your sons would not discuss with you that they would only discuss with another man or somebody?
(23:12):
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely. And there were, you know, just because I was married
and still had an active co-parent doesn't mean that we agreed on everything, right?
Perfect, yeah.And so there were always
those struggles. And we often tried to discuss it away from the kids and come up with a solution,
(23:38):
and then have a much more united, unified solution and not get into an argument in front of the kids.
That just didn't seem to be a good path forward.Yeah, I sense a theme here. So the ones that they
(24:00):
would talk about—it was on their bodies, there's the facts of life, there's dating,
there's how you treat women, there's safe sex, there's questions about their own sexuality. Those
things come up a lot. They hear a lot. They read a lot. It has to go hand in hand with the discussion
of what are they getting off the internet.Yep. And I had a lot of those conversations
(24:22):
with the boys.Oh yeah.
Because I didn't want it to be just one voice, a male voice, as to this is how you should treat a
girl that you might date or a friend or whatever the relationship. I thought it
was very important that my voice was part of the equation and equal to my husband's voice.
(24:47):
I think that would give a lot of confidence to single moms raising boys that are listening here
today to know that their voice matters. They still have an impact, a huge impact.
I think we talk about the disproportionate number of CEOs and Presidents of the United
States that were raised by single moms. So it's not one way or the other. There's a lot
(25:12):
of different ways to get to the same point.It's not to say that I don't think you should
mourn a loss. Because whether losing a partner or having a change in expectations creates a
loss for people. And I think they should take out the time to recognize that and acknowledge it,
(25:37):
and then start working on things that feel comfortable for them to put one foot forward
and the next foot forward. So that feeling of being overwhelmed that you described earlier
doesn't overtake you. You see a way out.Right. I think being able to prioritize those
(25:59):
sorts of conversations and what it is that you're trying to get across, and for yourself, too.
And I remember having a conversation with both of my boys before they went off to college about
how I expected them to treat other people, and especially females, and that sometimes people
(26:30):
overindulge and they drink too much and they become vulnerable. And I expected my boys to take
care of somebody and get them to a safe place.They didn't have to stay with them forever. I
didn't want you to babysit them. But I wanted to make sure that they knew that in my eyes,
(26:53):
they were a good male. They were a positive, strong, independent male.
And I expected certain things out of them.And treating someone who's vulnerable
better—it was one of those things.No, no. I mean, I wish every parent had
(27:14):
had that. My daughter went to a school that was renowned for having a drinking culture.
You know, the whole parenting journey is up and down and up and down. And I
do believe that asking for help is a sign of strength and not weakness. And no matter who
(27:38):
you are or how you're trying to work through your day, it's okay. It's okay to ask others for help.
What would you say single moms underestimate about their influence?
(27:59):
In terms of?In terms of raising their kids.
How incredibly sophisticated they are emotionally. They may be scared. We all
get scared. But the skills that they develop are very hard to get. And we may be forced into it,
(28:24):
but the ability to collaborate with a team—you may have to build a team of people.
And the other thing is there's a lot in the media about this anxiety-driven generation being driven
by “helicopter parenting.” And I'm sure that term needs no explanation. Single parents don't have
(28:46):
time to do that. I mean, they can't over-focus. Somebody once said to me, oh, you over-focus on
your kid. I said, how is that supposed to happen?I know. I felt the same way. I did not have the
bandwidth. It was not in my wheelhouse to be a helicopter parent or a lawnmower parent.
(29:10):
Oh yeah. Clearing the path like snowplow parents.Well, I remember sitting there one day at work
and my daughter called to tell me she had gotten home. It was high school. She made
the check-in call and I told her what to get out of the fridge for dinner. We talked about
what dinner would be and we hung up. And there's a fellow sitting across the desk
(29:31):
from me and he said, wow, your kids do that?When she got to college, she kept her own
space clean. Her roommates, not so much. But knowing that you're raising children who feel
(29:51):
very confident about their abilities—from keeping their space clean to arranging their schedule at
school—you should feel really good about that.Now, was it easy going through it? No. I think
we're all looking for the same result, just to raise self-reliant, self-sustaining kids.
(30:14):
Independent. Absolutely.Learning to fail is the
biggest thing the community talks about in terms of building resilience. And modeling
to your children how you deal with failure and disappointment is huge. It really is.
Them seeing you get knocked down—we all get knocked down—and taking a deep breath and saying
(30:41):
I'll pick it up tomorrow, I'm going to forget all that, it's in the past. The old Emerson
quote. You simply cannot overestimate how important that is for raising your children.
(31:02):
Right. I love that. I appreciate that comment. And it was my philosophy that I wanted the boys
to sort of fail when they were home—in that high school/middle school period—so
(31:24):
that they could learn how to be resilient before we sent them off into the world.
Because I'd rather there be a little bit of a safety net around as they're trying
to figure it out. I think that was important.Pat Hankin: Absolutely. And I would not get my
daughter up, you know teenagers like to sleep in, I would not get her to her job on time.
(31:52):
I would not go through hoops to make sure she got to hockey practice on time. I would
make my end of the commitment, but if she was dawdling or talking to a friend, that's on her.
I think it's important that when your kid signs up for something—even if they have
to sit on the sideline—they commit to the season. Sports aren't cheap.
(32:17):
Yep.And the gear for hockey
sure isn't cheap. And that is a very valuable lesson. I think parents understanding that
they haven’t got a whole lot of leeway in that with that because you’re working all the time,
like you were or are, in managing the schedule… I think it’s good for them to see that. And I
(32:41):
think it’s also good for kids to see that you change your mind. Parents can change their minds.
So, Pat, at the end of each one of our podcasts, we ask the guest to give us a motto or mantra that
a mom can say to herself when she's having a rough day, single parenting. What did you
(33:05):
say to yourself? What would you recommend?Small steps. There's always one small thing
you can do that feels manageable that will make your life better. Whether it's looking
up a phone number and putting it next to the computer so you can call the doctor
the next day. Just bite-sized chunks on these monumental tasks and projects that we have.
That would be mine (33:33):
small steps. There’s always something small you can do that feels
manageable. If not, call your kid and tell them to get dinner out of the refrigerator.
Well, Pat, it's been a fabulous conversation. I appreciate you sharing your insight and
(33:56):
knowledge from this online parenting community.I want to remind everyone that Pat has written
a book called The Field Guide for Single Parents. We will have it on the mothersofboys.life website.
Thank you.If this podcast
(34:17):
resonated and this episode meant something to you, please find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
and LinkedIn and share it with your friends.And be kind to yourself, moms.
undefined
Hi, I'm your host Suzy Shaw, mother of two now adult boys and author of the book Mother of Boys
Survival Guide. Today we're talking about something that many moms don't plan for but
find themselves navigating with courage and grit—raising children on their own.
(00:26):
Whether it was a personal choice, you're divorced, widowed, or simply parenting without a co-parent
in the picture, single motherhood brings unique emotional, financial, and relational challenges.
My guest today is Pat Hanken, business professional, parenting expert, and author
(00:48):
of The Field Guide for Single Parents—kind of a similar title to my book. Pat brings a
refreshingly practical, research-based, no-fluff approach to solo parenting.
Drawing from her own lived experience and engagement with an online parenting
(01:08):
community of more than 470,000 members, including many single moms raising boys,
Pat focuses on systems, clarity, and confidence over chaos and feeling overwhelmed.
If you've ever felt like you're carrying everything—emotionally, logistically,
(01:30):
financially—this conversation is for you.Welcome to the show, Pat.
Oh, thank you, Suzy. I'm so happy to be here, and I like your terms—grit, courage.
I know motherhood is definitely a lot of grit and courage.
You don't know how strong you are until you do it, right?
(01:53):
So Pat, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself and what motivated you to write
your book, The Field Guide for Single Parents?Oh yeah, sure. As you mentioned, I'm a business
professional. My background is in finance. I was in banking for a long time and then I moved into
global management consulting, so I've worked on three different continents and in many cultures.
(02:17):
It's a fancy way of saying I help companies solve problems, and a lot of that starts with listening.
Like many people, when the pandemic hit, the world slowed down to a much more reasonable
pace, I might say. I found myself with extra time. My clients were having slow contracts,
(02:39):
so I was having slow contracts, and my daughter—like your sons—was off to university.
So I thought this is a perfect time to see what I can do for someone else,
and I opted to moderate this online community you spoke of of over 470,000 single parents.
(03:02):
I did it for three years. I found… first I went in just as a traffic cop—to keep the creeps out,
make sure people stayed on topic, and that there were high-quality posts. They didn't need much
of that. It was amazingly well self-policed.But at some point, I got the courage to say,
(03:25):
well, I think I can answer some of these questions now, being on the other side of
parenting, with my daughter off to university. And the response to the resources and information that
I would provide was overwhelmingly positive. So I started codifying the information and tracking
what were universal themes, applying all my research skills to understand
(03:50):
what was going on with this group of people.One of the things that stopped me cold was
when someone asked, Where can I read all this information? What I found was that there was
no single place you could find it, and what you did find certainly was not fact-based, vetted,
(04:12):
or objective. So I took the lessons learned and the incredible advice people would give
each other in this community and put it together in a book, which took me three years to write,
and it came out last year. It's called The Field Guide for Single Parents.
I had very successful early reviews from Publishers Weekly and a few
(04:35):
other places that told me there was clearly a need out there for this.
So what patterns do you see in the discussion threads with single moms?
What surprises women and parents most when they begin parenting by themselves?
I noticed there were four or five universal themes.
(04:58):
One was health—your own and your children's. There were a lot of questions about making sure
people stayed healthy, obviously, given the time period when these
discussions happened, around 2021 to 2023.There were questions, a lot of people were
overwhelmed by, How do you do it all? If they had a partner and the partner's
(05:22):
gone—or they never had one—nobody comes with an instruction manual to do this. So
time management was a particularly hot topic, and one I felt comfortable answering because
I’ve worked designing systems for companies to solve problems, particularly around that area.
(05:44):
The other one is obviously finances and money. You take on a lot more complexity with children,
whether you're married or not. There's so much information out there, a lot of it
gets thrown around, but for single parents a lot of it doesn't work. So we talk about
(06:06):
where things need to be adjusted or modified.And then there are relationships—relationships
with yourself, with friends, with peers. There are stereotypes
out there that people confront. There's also relationships with an ex-partner or spouse.
We did a podcast on divorce and managing that, especially when there's a lot of conflict in the
(06:49):
divorce. It certainly brings its own complexity.I listened to that podcast before you and I ever
spoke. I thought it was excellent. One of the things that struck me was that the guest had
been in a legal battle for 10 years, but she made the point that you can't let your anger and your
(07:17):
battle toward your ex-husband come home to your kids. Dialing it back and sometimes walking away
from a dispute—like they say, it takes two to argue—was really excellent advice that I think in
any situation people could take and do something with. I thought that was a great episode.
(07:43):
One of the surprises people have when they get divorced is around money. You have a
certain amount of household income that is already spoken for. Now you take that,
and you make it do double duty for two households. Expect a reduction in lifestyle as I talk about
(08:12):
in the book. You can’t create it out of nowhere.The other big surprise is how low child support
payments are in this country. It’s another big surprise and it doesn't go very far toward
(08:32):
financing a household the way people were used to.Right, I've had several friends who have had
to navigate that struggle, the financial struggle. And although I was married—and still
am—when we were raising the boys my husband traveled a lot and was also getting his
(09:01):
master's degree. So I found myself juggling the kids and my job by myself not all the time,
but enough of the time to truly appreciate what the struggles are. And, I don't think I could
have done it without my friends—other mothers primarily—and some family—being able to help
(09:31):
pitch in when I became totally overwhelmed.That's when I started calling it the
MOB—the Mothers of Boys. It took a MOB. It didn't take a village.
What unique concerns did you hear from single moms raising boys when
(09:56):
you were moderating that discussion board?First of all, I'm delighted you had that kind
of support. It is really critical. We talk a lot in this book, in the health section,
about building your support network—your team, or your MOB. That wasn’t just about boys.
(10:21):
What you’re forced to do as a single parent is really look beyond the usual suspects because
it might not be your family. It might be that you’re the only single parent in your community.
People have a lot of questions, concerns and discomfort around the topic, but what I heard
(10:45):
a lot when it came to raising boys was—the first reaction when people realize they are going to do
is some palpable fear that you really do need a strong male role model in this situation,
and your a mom, and what do I do?It was everything from helping boys
(11:11):
know their bodies—and you can tell me topics that you personally had questions about—
to how to raise them to be a good human.I will say that one of the funniest things
with a little boy is teaching them how to pee in the toilet.
That exact topic came up!You become very very aware that you
(11:36):
do not know how to go to the bathroom standing up, but you're very committed that they get it
right so your cleaning isn't horrible. So, it becomes something you have to deal with right out
of the gate, whether somebody is around or not, is getting the boy to pee in the toilet. I hear you!
(12:04):
People would talk about that, and everybody would chime in about how they managed it or
how they did it. What wasn’t useful was everyone saying, “oh, you’ll do it.” These people were
asking for specific instructions and, I think, acknowledging that this was something that
they didn’t have any exposure to themselves.So one of the solutions, or the solutions that
(12:32):
really came up for if you're, you know, opposite gender raising, right, so men raising girls,
et cetera, is to be able to surround yourself with reliable role models. Now, this is tough because
some people will float in and out of your life as it suits them, and that's not always helpful.
There was other suggestions included Big Brothers, and getting yourself someone,
(12:59):
and they're very careful there about assigning someone who's going to stick around, you know,
for whatever period of time, because having someone come into a child's life and then walk
out is a loss if they cared about that person. So, you know, not so much when they're infants,
but certainly as they get older. And those, I thought, were some very useful ways to, you know,
(13:23):
build, fill in the pieces that are missing there, and you probably have others to add.
Well, I was very cognizant of having role models for my boys, and so we called them “coaches,”
(13:43):
and it could have been somebody to go talk to, you know, that was a mental health coach,
or it could have been an organizational coach, that was a tutor. But I just called
everybody coaches for the most part.One of the other things that we did,
I encouraged the boys to have male babysitters, and we, and also, when they got old enough,
(14:09):
to babysit. And that gave the boys a sense of confidence. It also sort of doubled as a little
bit of birth control, because when you, when you have to take care of another smaller person,
there's like, “holy cow, I don't want to do this.” Right? And so the, you know, just having
(14:33):
male babysitters and then also babysitting was a win-win on both of those spectrums.
And then using family, you know, uncles and things like that. I call the boys in my book
Ernest and Exuberance. And Ernest was the older child, and he was a little bit shyer and quieter,
(15:01):
not quite as confident. And at one point when he was in high school, probably like junior,
senior year, we asked his uncle if he could find him an internship at the place where he
worked. And then Ernest would get on the subway, go through Washington, D.C. to his aunt and uncles
(15:24):
in Virginia, in Northern Virginia, stay there for two days, do the internship, and come back.
And that experience was so powerful for him to have to, to just feel more confident in himself.
(15:45):
Everything from just getting on the subway and packing up and taking everything you
need for a couple of days, and then, you know, doing the job and having that work experience.
So, you know, I would suggest, you know, the babysitters, the male role models,
the coaches, the internships, to just try to tee some of those things up as,
(16:12):
you go through their young adult period.When you talk about babysitters, once my
daughter got into elementary school, and then middle school, I worked full time as you did,
and I had that gap, you know, between the time school ends and then it’s be 6:00 or
(16:34):
7:00 when I'd get home, because I too had to go on. And I hired graduate students
from one of our schools of education here.First of all, I'm not very good at patience with
homework. I mean, I used to say to my daughter, I've already done fifth grade. I don't need to do
it again. And these people just have a gift. They just had a gift. So, to your listeners,
(17:00):
looking at your local school of education, you know, we have, I'm in the Boston area,
we have 150 universities and colleges here. So there's a lot of education and teacher training
going on. But they were good companions as well as good tutors, babysitters, whatever.
(17:21):
So, that's a great point.Those win-win relationships, right?
Yeah. And if you get a dud, you move on and get another one. Right?
They had to be around in the summer though; that's always the challenge. But then there's camp.
Right. And we did a lot of camp too.So what do you recommend for single moms,
(17:43):
you know, managing a tricky relationship? At what point in the relationship, in the personal
relationship, would you bring somebody in to meet your daughter? Or, you know, did you have any
lessons learned? And it probably depended about how, you know, the age of the kids in your house.
(18:04):
Yeah. So there's two questions. So the issue around managing your ex,
and then a high-conflict situation.I interviewed a woman for this book who
talked about a high-conflict situation. She had her child with a guy that
(18:25):
had really shady business dealings and ended up in “Club Fed,” federal penitentiary,
for I believe it was white-collar crime. And his second wife also ended up there. So,
believe it or not, the judge also then went and granted joint custody. I don't understand the
(18:50):
legal system for this. Needless to say, it was a high-conflict situation there.
And she introduced me to the concept of parallel parenting. Have you heard of this? Where you don't
have to be in the same room at the same time. For instance, only one of you goes to the kid's
concert, right? And it is a type of agreement that goes in these kinds of high-conflict cases.
(19:19):
The other person I interviewed was a very renowned divorce attorney here in Boston. And
he actually moved primarily into mediation. And I suggest that you go with mediation.
In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the outcome from these cases is pretty much predetermined
(19:43):
by a formula and the division of assets and everything. So, fighting to the death here, which
I've seen many people do, over what's going to be a predetermined outcome, seems a bit insane to me.
And I asked this mediator why people do that. It's not going to improve their standing and get more
money or anything. And he said, because they're hurt. They're fighting because they're hurt.
(20:09):
And my first advice to people, if that's you, is get yourself a therapist. It's probably
cheaper than $650 an hour (for a lawyer). Dial it back for your kids, because this can really
be a situation where your kids are going to get affected and start acting out about it.
(20:32):
You know, what tips do you have for a mom struggling with their ex-spouse?
Probably the most stressful thing is people who don't show up on time or don't show up at all to
pick up the kids or take them someplace, because now you've got to change your plans, either
from work or whatever else. And a few “oh wells” might get you further than fighting every single
(20:59):
battle when this goes. And I'm talking outside the court, when you've got these agreements going on.
There is something called the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's a subconscious bias where we all
overestimate our contribution to a relationship. I mean, it goes for everything. You know,
(21:19):
when you're coming to evaluate, or you're keeping score, realize that this is something that we all
do. And there's no perfect way to do that.Well, I think just about all relationships
are like that, right? So I mean, whether it's a coworker, whether it's your employer, whether
(21:42):
it's your neighbor, it's your spouse, it's never exactly the way you would like to imagine it is.
And...Yeah, don't be a doormat, but...
Right. I think there's a certain amount of emotional acceptance that you probably have to do,
and to make sure this is the goal. Whatever your goal is, this is the goal, and I'm going to move
(22:08):
forward toward that goal and maybe not let the rest of that stuff weigh me down quite as much.
Yeah, you can take small steps toward that. So it's a mindset.
But, you know, were there any themes and a difference between mothers who were raising
(22:28):
boys as single moms as opposed to girls?The question would come up as a question,
as opposed to people just saying it was different. It was pretty much defined by
who was asking. And again, circumstances. A lack of confidence was the big thing
(22:49):
that came up when they were first starting out.And I'd ask your question as a mom of two boys,
do you feel that having an engaged co-parent, did you feel that there were certain things that
your sons would not discuss with you that they would only discuss with another man or somebody?
(23:12):
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely. And there were, you know, just because I was married
and still had an active co-parent doesn't mean that we agreed on everything, right?
Perfect, yeah.And so there were always
those struggles. And we often tried to discuss it away from the kids and come up with a solution,
(23:38):
and then have a much more united, unified solution and not get into an argument in front of the kids.
That just didn't seem to be a good path forward.Yeah, I sense a theme here. So the ones that they
(24:00):
would talk about—it was on their bodies, there's the facts of life, there's dating,
there's how you treat women, there's safe sex, there's questions about their own sexuality. Those
things come up a lot. They hear a lot. They read a lot. It has to go hand in hand with the discussion
of what are they getting off the internet.Yep. And I had a lot of those conversations
(24:22):
with the boys.Oh yeah.
Because I didn't want it to be just one voice, a male voice, as to this is how you should treat a
girl that you might date or a friend or whatever the relationship. I thought it
was very important that my voice was part of the equation and equal to my husband's voice.
(24:47):
I think that would give a lot of confidence to single moms raising boys that are listening here
today to know that their voice matters. They still have an impact, a huge impact.
I think we talk about the disproportionate number of CEOs and Presidents of the United
States that were raised by single moms. So it's not one way or the other. There's a lot
(25:12):
of different ways to get to the same point.It's not to say that I don't think you should
mourn a loss. Because whether losing a partner or having a change in expectations creates a
loss for people. And I think they should take out the time to recognize that and acknowledge it,
(25:37):
and then start working on things that feel comfortable for them to put one foot forward
and the next foot forward. So that feeling of being overwhelmed that you described earlier
doesn't overtake you. You see a way out.Right. I think being able to prioritize those
(25:59):
sorts of conversations and what it is that you're trying to get across, and for yourself, too.
And I remember having a conversation with both of my boys before they went off to college about
how I expected them to treat other people, and especially females, and that sometimes people
(26:30):
overindulge and they drink too much and they become vulnerable. And I expected my boys to take
care of somebody and get them to a safe place.They didn't have to stay with them forever. I
didn't want you to babysit them. But I wanted to make sure that they knew that in my eyes,
(26:53):
they were a good male. They were a positive, strong, independent male.
And I expected certain things out of them.And treating someone who's vulnerable
better—it was one of those things.No, no. I mean, I wish every parent had
(27:14):
had that. My daughter went to a school that was renowned for having a drinking culture.
You know, the whole parenting journey is up and down and up and down. And I
do believe that asking for help is a sign of strength and not weakness. And no matter who
(27:38):
you are or how you're trying to work through your day, it's okay. It's okay to ask others for help.
What would you say single moms underestimate about their influence?
(27:59):
In terms of?In terms of raising their kids.
How incredibly sophisticated they are emotionally. They may be scared. We all
get scared. But the skills that they develop are very hard to get. And we may be forced into it,
(28:24):
but the ability to collaborate with a team—you may have to build a team of people.
And the other thing is there's a lot in the media about this anxiety-driven generation being driven
by “helicopter parenting.” And I'm sure that term needs no explanation. Single parents don't have
(28:46):
time to do that. I mean, they can't over-focus. Somebody once said to me, oh, you over-focus on
your kid. I said, how is that supposed to happen?I know. I felt the same way. I did not have the
bandwidth. It was not in my wheelhouse to be a helicopter parent or a lawnmower parent.
(29:10):
Oh yeah. Clearing the path like snowplow parents.Well, I remember sitting there one day at work
and my daughter called to tell me she had gotten home. It was high school. She made
the check-in call and I told her what to get out of the fridge for dinner. We talked about
what dinner would be and we hung up. And there's a fellow sitting across the desk
(29:31):
from me and he said, wow, your kids do that?When she got to college, she kept her own
space clean. Her roommates, not so much. But knowing that you're raising children who feel
(29:51):
very confident about their abilities—from keeping their space clean to arranging their schedule at
school—you should feel really good about that.Now, was it easy going through it? No. I think
we're all looking for the same result, just to raise self-reliant, self-sustaining kids.
(30:14):
Independent. Absolutely.Learning to fail is the
biggest thing the community talks about in terms of building resilience. And modeling
to your children how you deal with failure and disappointment is huge. It really is.
Them seeing you get knocked down—we all get knocked down—and taking a deep breath and saying
(30:41):
I'll pick it up tomorrow, I'm going to forget all that, it's in the past. The old Emerson
quote. You simply cannot overestimate how important that is for raising your children.
(31:02):
Right. I love that. I appreciate that comment. And it was my philosophy that I wanted the boys
to sort of fail when they were home—in that high school/middle school period—so
(31:24):
that they could learn how to be resilient before we sent them off into the world.
Because I'd rather there be a little bit of a safety net around as they're trying
to figure it out. I think that was important.Pat Hankin: Absolutely. And I would not get my
daughter up, you know teenagers like to sleep in, I would not get her to her job on time.
(31:52):
I would not go through hoops to make sure she got to hockey practice on time. I would
make my end of the commitment, but if she was dawdling or talking to a friend, that's on her.
I think it's important that when your kid signs up for something—even if they have
to sit on the sideline—they commit to the season. Sports aren't cheap.
(32:17):
Yep.And the gear for hockey
sure isn't cheap. And that is a very valuable lesson. I think parents understanding that
they haven’t got a whole lot of leeway in that with that because you’re working all the time,
like you were or are, in managing the schedule… I think it’s good for them to see that. And I
(32:41):
think it’s also good for kids to see that you change your mind. Parents can change their minds.
So, Pat, at the end of each one of our podcasts, we ask the guest to give us a motto or mantra that
a mom can say to herself when she's having a rough day, single parenting. What did you
(33:05):
say to yourself? What would you recommend?Small steps. There's always one small thing
you can do that feels manageable that will make your life better. Whether it's looking
up a phone number and putting it next to the computer so you can call the doctor
the next day. Just bite-sized chunks on these monumental tasks and projects that we have.
That would be mine (33:33):
small steps. There’s always something small you can do that feels
manageable. If not, call your kid and tell them to get dinner out of the refrigerator.
Well, Pat, it's been a fabulous conversation. I appreciate you sharing your insight and
(33:56):
knowledge from this online parenting community.I want to remind everyone that Pat has written
a book called The Field Guide for Single Parents. We will have it on the mothersofboys.life website.
Thank you.If this podcast
(34:17):
resonated and this episode meant something to you, please find us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
and LinkedIn and share it with your friends.And be kind to yourself, moms.
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