May 13, 2026 • 37 mins
Why do so many boys start saying “I hate school” as early as kindergarten?
In this eye-opening episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide, Suzy Shaw talks with Jennifer Fink—author of Building Boys and The First Time Mom’s Guide to Raising Boys—about why so many boys struggle in elementary school, often long before parents expect it.
From behavior referrals and reading frustration to developmental differences, classroom bias, and the critical importance of movement, confidence, and advocacy, this conversation helps moms better understand what may really be happening when school becomes a daily battle.
Suzy and Jennifer share personal stories, practical strategies, and empowering reminders that struggling in school does not mean your son is failing—it may mean the system isn’t built with boys in mind.
If your son is bored, acting out, falling behind, or already saying he hates school, this episode will help you better understand why—and what you can do to support him.
Topics include: • Why boys are disciplined more often than girls—even in preschool • Developmental differences that impact reading, writing, and behavior • How recess, movement, and hands-on learning affect boys’ success • Advocating for your son with teachers and schools • Creative strategies for reading resistance and school frustration • Why believing in your boy matters more than ever
This episode is a powerful reminder: your son may not be the problem—and you are not alone.
🎧 Listen now on your favorite podcast platform or at mothersofboys.life
#MOBsurvivalguide #MothersofBoys #RaisingBoys #BoyMom #ParentingBoys #ElementarySchool #BoysInSchool #SchoolStruggles #ParentingTips #JenniferFink #BuildingBoys #BoysAndLearning #EducationMatters #ReadingStruggles #BoyMomLife #SchoolSuccess #ParentAdvocacy #RaisingGreatGuys #ParentingPodcast #MomsOfBoys
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I'm Suzy Shaw, mom of two now adult boys
and author of the book,
Mother of Boys Survival Guide.
This podcast shares
practical insights, expert advice,
and real conversations to help moms raise
confident, capable boys.
You can find more episodes and resources
(00:20):
at mothersofboys.life.
Now, let's get into today's conversation.
Why Boys Struggle in Elementary School
and What Moms Can Do About I t.
I have sat in a back-to-school night the
first week of school
with my husband and listened
to our son's third grade teacher tell us,
(00:42):
"Your kids are not
going to have a good year."
As we looked at each other, our hearts
sank, and she was right.
It was a horrible year for Exuberance,
and a lot of kids in the
class, primarily the boys.
And that wasn't our first
issue in elementary school.
(01:04):
His older brother,
Ernest, had his challenges, too.
But the fact that she said it out loud to
a room full of parents
was kind of astonishing.
And it turns out this isn't just one
classroom or one teacher.
In many schools, boys make up the
majority of
behavior-related calls home and discipline
(01:26):
referrals, and it often starts as early
as kindergarten and first grade.
So if your son is struggling or already
says he hates school, you are not alone.
Today I'm talking with Jennifer Fink,
author of Building Boys,
(01:47):
Raising Great Guys in a World That
Misunderstands Males, and the First Time
Moms Guide to Raising
Boys, Practical Advice for
Your Son's Formative Years.
She's also a nurse, a writer, and a mom
of four boys who has navigated these
challenges firsthand,
including making the decision to
(02:08):
homeschool her own
boys for several years.
We're going to talk about what's really
happening in those
early elementary years,
and why so many boys struggle sooner than
we expect, and how to
positively advocate for your son.
Jenny, welcome.
Thanks so much for having me to talk
about this today, Suzy.
(02:29):
I appreciate you being here, and also for
sending me your books.
This is the Building Boys, and another
one for first time moms.
So tell us a little bit about yourself
and your inspirations to write the books.
(02:49):
My inspiration was very similar to yours.
I had boys. I had boys. And
by the time I had two boys,
formative moment in hindsight, there was
a point where both boys,
they were like laying on the
floor, sprawled the way kids sprawl in
front of the TV, watching, I
(03:10):
think it was Sesame Street or
something. Their dad was home. I was
home. We were sitting on the couch. We
were probably having our
own adult conversation. And for no
apparent reason that I could tell, the
boys just randomly got up
and started running and jumping up and
down the couches, chasing
each other, jumping, tackling.
(03:31):
And I'm looking at them like, "I don't
understand this. Why? Why?"
And their dad's like, "Yeah,
that's normal." And that was sort of my
beginning. There's
something different here.
Why speak when you could
just tackle somebody, right?
Right? There's something different here.
So I started learning
more about boys, really,
(03:54):
to survive my own life, to have some
understanding of what's going on and
coping mechanisms that I
could use as I parent my own boys. And as
my oldest, then got
into school and we started
running into some of these issues that
you've already
mentioned in the beginning.
(04:15):
I think that's when I went a little
further down. I learned a
little more. I had already started
writing, transitioning from nursing
full-time as a career to also writing.
And I, at some point,
pitched an article about boys and
learning in school. And I got to
interview people that were
already working in the field, learned
(04:36):
more, and everything just
snowballed and grew from there.
So in those earlier years of elementary
school, what was your experience like and
what kind of issues did you have?
We made it until first grade. No,
kindergarten. It was kindergarten
(04:58):
already. When my oldest son, who of
course is my first kid to go
to school, started saying he
hated school.
I was not prepared for that in first
grade, in kindergarten.
I mean in kindergarten,
how do you hate kindergarten?
I expected that I would
hear that at some point.
I think every kid at a certain point
(05:20):
says, "I hate school."
I was thinking middle school.
I was not thinking kindergarten.
And to be honest, I kind of brushed it
off for quite a while.
Just the reassurances and the, I hate to
say I did this, but this
was where, no, you don't.
You don't have a lot
of friends at school.
Look at all the fun things you do.
(05:40):
It did take me until he was in first
grade to really kind of
sit down and listen to what
he was saying and then combine that with
some of what I was observing.
And when I sat down and listened to him,
ultimately he was both bored.
(06:03):
He was struggling on the playground.
He wanted to play elaborate make believe
games and some of the
other kids just wanted
to tackle each other, which is totally
fine, except for that
there was also a school rule
against tackling each other.
And my kid had a very strong sense of
right, wrong, and justice
(06:24):
at that point that allowed
for no gray spaces.
And if you are a boy in kindergarten and
first grade, that does not
make you a lot of friends
at that point in time.
So it was kind of a culmination of all of
these things that made
me, again, I did research
and I looked kind of long and hard and I
(06:45):
found out, huh, mine's
not the only kid dealing
with some of these issues in
kindergarten in first grade.
I was really surprised to learn that boys
consistently make up
the majority of school
discipline referrals.
So from your research and your
(07:07):
experience, how common is that?
So distressingly common.
No, I did not experience
that with my oldest son.
And spoiler alert, although you alluded
to it in the beginning,
we did ultimately pull
him out of what I call school school
halfway through first
grade and then homeschooled
for a number of years.
(07:28):
The next of my children to go from like
kindergarten through the
system was my youngest one.
The older ones did
those early years at home.
Him, oh, we ran into this all the time.
I got more calls and emails from school
about bad things than good things.
(07:49):
Thankfully, at this point, I
knew that we were not alone.
So statistically speaking, Suzy, this
starts even earlier than kindergarten.
It starts in preschool.
Boys make up approximately half of the
kids in preschool in
the United States, as you
would expect based on demographics.
But they make up 80% of the
(08:12):
suspensions from preschool.
Note that from preschool and the
statistics are even more
alarming for brown boys.
For so many kids, their first experiences
with a school setting is getting in
trouble, getting kicked out, which is
(08:34):
this, it forms this
foundation of you don't belong here.
Academically speaking, boys end up
lagging behind girls all the way through.
Now again, we're talking broad
generalities. We are not
talking every boy, every girl.
The best research that I found so far,
when boys enter school, kindergarten,
(08:55):
first grade, they're a little behind. And
I'm putting air quotes around this
because I think we need to look at what
our standards are, what we are expecting
when people come in.
They are a little behind girls in terms
of reading. This gap broadens as boys go
through school. It broadens.
(09:16):
Boys are more likely to be at the failing
end of the class. Girls are more likely
to be at the A's part of the class. Boys
are far more likely to be in the special
ed programs. They are more likely to be
in the school office.
And there is even really good research to
show that even when boys and girls do the
(09:36):
same things behavior wise, the boy is
more likely to get in trouble and or
harsh trouble compared to the girl.
And on the academic side, that girls and
boys, even when they do the same work,
and they've done this in studies where
you know you're blind, who did what work.
Teachers will judge the boy's work when
(10:00):
they know it's a boy, not as good, not
give it as high a grade as they would to
a girl that did the same work.
There is unconscious bias going on here.
And that's important to know. And that's
not at all what you are thinking about
when you send your beautiful, innocent,
enthusiastic, exuberant child to school
(10:22):
for the first time, right?
Right. My oldest I call Ernest. And in
second grade, he was like, I'm done. I'm
not going to school anymore. Second
grade. And I started to dig into it. And
he was not finishing his morning work and
(10:46):
was being punished by having
to stay in during free play.
That's such a big, such a big common
thing that happens to boys and it almost
never actually helps the problem.
Well, it makes the problem worse because
of all the things of, you know, getting
some energy out. That's the thing that's
(11:06):
going to help save you. And I did go in
and sit and talk with the teacher and we
came up with a solution where she
understood that that is not a good
solution for him to
punish him in that way.
And that he can bring the work home,
whatever he's missed, and we'd do it as
(11:26):
part of our homework, which was difficult
too. But, you know, still better. And
your most boys, if you ask them what
their favorite classes are in elementary
school, they're going to
say gym, lunch, and free play.
Lunch and recess, lunch
(11:46):
and recess, lunch and recess.
That's it.
You know, because I don't want to feel
like we are saying poor
things about teachers, I want to share a
story of Exuberance
in second grade. And he, his
teacher had flagged me down and said he's
reporting that he can't do math because
(12:08):
he, the numbers are spinning on him.
And so we took him to have his eyes
checked and it turned out he had no
issues at all with his eyes, did not need
glasses. And so I explained that to him
on the way home and
he totally fell apart.
(12:29):
He insisted that he needed glasses.
This is one of those parenting moments.
There are the things that we think
we are going to have to deal with.
You never expect that telling your kid
that their eyes are good is going to
result in a meltdown.
You know, it was,
now I feel like I'm really
(12:50):
leaning into the crazy, right?
So now I am literally
getting him glasses,
you know, at one of
those very quick glass shops
because I can't give him something
without safety glass
in it, for Lord's sake.
I mean, his name is Exuberance, right?
(13:11):
So we give him the
glasses, I send him off to school.
I forget to mention it to the teacher.
So I see her, I don't know, a week later
and she's like, "Wow,
the glasses are great.
It's making such a difference."
And I was like,
"Okay, they're not really glasses.
(13:34):
They, he doesn't really need glasses.
He thinks he needs glasses.
I think he would prefer to wear a cape."
But without the cape, he's decided,
look smart, be smart, feel smart.
And so, you know, fast
forward another couple of weeks
(13:54):
and the teacher flags
me down and she says,
"The glasses are the greatest thing.
I've ever had in my
class because when I see him
hold the glasses out and stick them on,
I realize I've just
lost about half the class."
So I back up and teach
everything a little bit again.
(14:17):
And so that, I mean, that's a
story of a fabulous teacher.
And a fabulous parent.
And a, I mean, you were
in this situation where,
I do not understand what's happening.
I don't know why it's happening.
There is no playbook for this.
(14:37):
You are making it up as you went along,
but you were looking at
and listening to your son.
And when you do the math,
pun slightly intended here,
when you do the math,
if he thinks glasses are going to help,
and if we can get him, you know,
a cheap-ish pair of glasses.
(14:59):
And yeah, of course you had to figure out
how to get safety glass
because we're talking about
like a seven, eight year old boy.
They're not known for being careful.
Standing ovation to you
for figuring that out.
And then you had this continual dialogue
with the teacher, right?
The teacher was open to that as well.
Like, I love everything about that story.
(15:20):
So what did you learn,
you know, about advocating
and working with the
school and the teacher,
you know, to make your boys successful?
You know, I just said something
that I think is core to all of this.
And so many people, moms,
parents, educators included,
(15:43):
there's so much we don't know about boys
and about male development.
Teachers don't learn this.
I didn't know it until I had boys
and went looking on my own, for instance.
And I think this is key to all of it.
Boys and girls
develop at different paces.
(16:03):
It's not so much that
there are like these inherent
differences that boys are good at this
and girls are good at that.
And you know, the two never shall cross.
It's not so much that.
However, biologically speaking,
boy babies developmentally
are weeks behind where girls babies,
where girl babies are when they're born.
(16:24):
And when I'm talking
about full-term infants,
I'm talking about babies
that are born at, you know,
that 40 week or
whatever mark of pregnancy.
Boys are not as mature.
They're hearing their
vision, their brains,
their coordination, not as
mature as girl babies at birth.
That difference continues through life.
(16:47):
Boys develop more slowly than girls.
So that by the time we have our kids
in early elementary school, right?
The girls are the part of
the brain that handles reading,
writing, language is more
mature than the boys brains,
similar part of the brain
by about a year and a half.
(17:08):
Now, by adulthood, we
get to the same place,
but also think about all
the teenagers that you know,
there is a dramatic
difference between a 15 year old girl
and a 15 year old boy.
And it's not just immaturity,
which we often think of as
kind of mental immaturity
or stupidity on the part of boys.
(17:28):
It's not, it is
biological, it is cognitive.
But because we don't
acknowledge that, we don't teach that,
we don't factor that in.
Now let's add back.
Kindergarten, first grade
today are very different
than they were when I went to school.
(17:50):
When I went to school, the
things that you were learning
in first grade are things
that now kids are expected
to do in kindergarten,
sometimes even in preschool.
In preschool, they're asking
children to write their names.
If your fine motor is
such that you're not great
at holding onto a pen, that's really,
really hard for you.
(18:11):
So we are continually taking boys
and putting them in these circumstances
that aren't a good
fit for their abilities.
And then they get the
message that they're failing.
It's not that the
expectations are wrong, they are failing.
So I paint that as the background.
When it comes to
advocating for our boys in school
(18:33):
and helping them through
this, sometimes you get lucky.
Sometimes you get a
teacher that is very open-minded
and yes, understands that
taking away recess or free play
is harmful to the child
and will work with you.
And other times you
are working with a system
that is not responsive,
a system that is static
and for reasons that perhaps are even out
(18:56):
of the administrator's
control, they can't change,
they won't change.
That's really, really, really difficult.
I will say that in this other school,
after that horrible reaction with the
third grade teacher,
I did go in and I talked
with the guidance counselor
and we had a very serious
(19:16):
conversation about male teachers
because the boys had
never had, neither one of them
had never had a male teacher
and they had two male
teachers in fourth grade.
And I'm like, you have
got to give him a win.
Give him a male teacher.
And that changed everything for him
(19:39):
wanting to go to school.
I mean, just to be
able to have somebody say,
wear your favorite
football team sweatshirt.
And then they all talked about football
for a minute, right?
Those little shifts, having a male was
really, really powerful
and there just aren't
(20:00):
very many men teaching.
There are fewer male
teachers today than there were.
The numbers have been
declining and it's not good.
It's not good for our boys.
It's not good for our girls.
Girls need to see male teachers as well.
And I don't think it's good
for our men and women either.
(20:21):
I think that, you know, it
is good for men to work with
and be in contact with children.
Because of my writing, I've
also written for education.
I mean, teaching does
not pay what it should.
Teaching is not an
appreciated position in a lot of places.
It should be, but
(20:41):
teachers are getting blamed left
and right and put in situations,
no win situations, very
similar to our children.
So unless and until we
change those things, yeah,
people aren't going into
education that could be great.
And that's really hard.
That's really hard for all of us.
If there are male teachers in your
(21:01):
school, yes, fantastic.
If your son, if your
daughter has access to that.
You know, one of the
reasons why I wrote my book,
Building Boys, Raising
Great Guys in a World
That Misunderstands Males, is because
when you are parenting,
you don't have time for the
systems to fix everything.
You can advocate for your son.
(21:23):
You can do your best
to get him in as great
of an educational
environment as possible.
But very often it's
not going to be ideal.
And you still are
tasked with how do I nurture
this child in this less
than ideal environment?
And I'm here to tell
you, it is 100% possible.
(21:44):
Even if school is a
struggle for you, little things.
Susie, you mentioned like,
where your favorite football
team jersey to school, right?
And you can talk about football.
A female teacher could do that too.
It may or may not have the same impact.
Another thing that happens
so often to our boys in school
is they get these
messages, both spoken and unspoken,
(22:06):
that what they are
interested in is not okay at school.
Not okay.
You cannot swing sticks
around on the playground.
You cannot tackle each other.
You cannot and should not,
don't even try to write
a story or draw a picture
that has any kind of violence in it
because you will likely get in trouble,
(22:29):
called to, talk to the teacher,
your parent will get called in,
the school counselor may get called in.
How do I know?
Oh, because it happened to me.
There are stories in my book.
I mean, my kid, I got
a call from the teacher
because he drew a picture
of a shark attacking humans.
(22:51):
Okay, like that is the plot of "Jaws."
Big worldwide movie.
So boys get these subtle messages
that the things they are interested in,
there's no space for them at school.
And one of the things I
have found that parents can do
is make room for and
(23:12):
welcome your son's interest
as much as possible.
So even if he can't talk about
or read about whatever his interest is,
whether it's like knights and dragons
or World War, whatever,
which yes, does involve
killing people, sadly,
or motocross or dance,
(23:33):
whatever his thing is, you
can still go with your son
and get books from the
library and read those books
and share those books
and let him read, write,
talk about whatever at home,
give him space and time
to pursue his interest
so that even if school is not necessarily
(23:56):
a safe and nurturing place for him,
he has a place where
he can be all of him.
And I think that that
ultimately makes a difference
and then gives our boys the resilience
to deal in these situations
that are sometimes challenging for them.
I 100% agree.
(24:18):
You know, some of the things
that I did during that period
was to get more involved in school.
And even though I was working,
I volunteered to read
in the school classroom.
I would go on field trips.
I tried to get to know the teacher.
That same guidance
(24:39):
counselor that I begged to give him
a fourth grade male
teacher, which she did,
told me that elementary
school was just tough for boys
and that they begin to
catch up in middle school
and by high school, you're going to be okay.
And so I did find at least that knowledge
(25:04):
and as empowering a little bit.
So you're talking about
maturity and development
and fewer males and, you
know, is there anything else?
The early years, elementary school,
part of why elementary school is so, so
challenging for boys
is the focus is so
(25:26):
heavily on reading and writing.
Reading and writing, reading and writing.
And yes, there's math, but
it's still a very written thing.
And the whole idea in
school is that we concentrate
on these things because
you're learning to read
up until about third grade,
but then by third grade on,
you're going to be reading to learn.
This reading is
(25:46):
foundational to the learning process.
Little boys primarily learn by doing.
They learn by doing.
I just wish that we
could flip the school system,
that we spent those
early years allowing kids
to continue to learn the
way that they've been learning
up until that point, which is pretty much
(26:07):
by like trying
things, seeing what happens,
trying something else, exploring,
that we continue to curate
and encourage their curiosity.
And then when they
started expressing an interest
in reading and writing,
we worked on those things.
That's not how our schools
are structured right now.
And I do think that is another part of
why our boys struggle
(26:29):
in school.
They want to learn.
They are curious.
If you have ever
watched a preschool aged boy,
a toddler boy, they're
exploring the world constantly.
If we found ways to
continue to encourage that rather
than saying sit down, do
this, and here's the boundaries
of acceptable behavior, I
(26:50):
think we'd get better outcomes
for our boys.
I don't think so many
of them by first grade,
by second grade would
be saying, I hate school.
For what it's worth,
there are places that do that.
They're not super common.
They're not everywhere.
For those who have access
to it, like forest schools,
(27:10):
nature schools, I think
those can be fantastic options
for boys and girls,
especially in those early years,
if that is available to you.
It's not everywhere.
One of the things that we did was create
a boys only book club because the boys
a boys only book club because the boys
didn't want to read.
I didn't feel like they
were being offered stories
(27:33):
that they were interested in.
And the Spiderwick
Chronicles had just come out.
And so taking the
girls out of the equation
who were primarily great
readers and just having it
be this small group of third grade boys,
where each one after one of these books,
(27:53):
they would, each one
would have to say something
that they liked or
didn't like about the book.
I gave them a bunch of
snacks and then that was it.
I mean, that was like the book club.
And then they went out and played.
Was it something you did after school?
It wasn't a part of the school.
It wasn't part of the
school, but it was so successful
with my first son that
(28:13):
when we switched schools
into a new elementary
school, I went and pitched the idea
to the librarian to do
it for the entire school.
And because my background
was, you know, television,
video production, I said, look,
I will create a video
book report from the winner
(28:35):
of third, fourth and fifth grade.
So you all pick, let
the kids read the books,
turn in their book
reports and then whoever wins
will record it and
play it for the school.
That's a great idea.
That was such a positive experience
that the whole school got into it.
(28:59):
There's another mom that I know
and she did the same with her boys.
She has two sons also,
started a book club for boys.
She started with her older one.
And I think her son was
a little older than yours
when they started, I'll have to check.
And it went on for
years and then ultimately
did the same thing with her younger one.
(29:20):
So I think that is a fantastic idea.
And another great example of
how parents can kind of fill in
and supplement what
is going on in school.
Absolutely love that so, so much.
One thing I ran into with my oldest son
in the early grades, he loved stories.
(29:41):
He loved listening to stories.
He was very motivated to read.
However, he was
frustrated because the books
that he could read at that
point were so boring and stupid
and not the interesting
things that he wanted to read.
And when we made the
decision to homeschool him,
one very frustrating day,
(30:02):
because I'm trying to
get him to read aloud
because I thought this
is what you need to do.
This is how kids learn how to read.
This is all I'd ever heard.
He got so frustrated.
He blew up.
He got mad at me.
I got mad at him.
And that's when he finally said,
he hates trying to read aloud.
He just wants time for his brain
to figure out the words instead.
(30:25):
That made perfect sense to me.
That made perfect sense.
Some of the books I was
reading aloud at that point
were the Junie B. Jones books.
Did your boys get
into those at all, Suzy?
No.
One teacher at school
had started reading them
and he loved those books.
So we had some of those books at home.
And I will never forget,
(30:46):
I can only read so much at a time
because like every busy parent,
I have other things to do.
One night he'd gone to bed.
The other ones went to bed.
Their dad and I are
trying to do grown up stuff,
get stuff done.
And he comes sneaking down the stairs
and it's very late at night,
but he finished the Junie
B. Jones book all on his own.
We gave him that time
(31:06):
and he was motivated enough
that when he was
ready, he figured it out.
And I'm sharing this
because there are other avenues
to get to the same place.
He was frustrated with reading aloud.
We kept reading aloud to him
and still gave him ways to access stories
that were interesting to him.
He also struggled with writing a lot.
(31:27):
The physical act of writing,
that's hard for a lot of boys.
Yeah, we had that problem also.
One of the other things
that I did at that time was,
it's different now because
now you can use technology
to do this, but I allowed
him to dictate stories to me.
I would type it because
he could write mentally,
(31:47):
he could compose
sentences, he could compose stories,
but he really struggled with
the physical act of writing.
It took time for his
brain and body to catch up.
And yes, now he can write
things both with the computer
and with his hand and he's a
perfectly functional grownup.
(laughs)
They do catch up.
They do.
One of the things I also found is that
(32:09):
if there was a behavioral issue
and they were acting out in class,
that often was because of frustration
and their fear of falling behind.
And then trying to get to
the root of what it was,
we could then get him a tutor.
(32:31):
And we did that even in third grade.
We put him in a program to help catch up
and that made a big
difference in their attitude
towards school.
Do you find that also?
Yeah, boys, broadly
speaking, will act out
instead of telling you what's wrong.
(32:52):
They may not have the words
themselves, that's part of it.
Key for parents and
teachers to keep in mind.
Boys don't want to do badly, ever.
They don't.
They don't want to get
in trouble at school.
They don't want to not be able to do
their assignments well.
They want to do well.
(33:13):
So if there is something that is
happening repeatedly,
it really is
worthwhile to take some time,
spend some time with that boy.
Don't necessarily lead with,
"Hey, you're not
finishing your assignments.
You can get there."
But try and listen and
figure out what's going on
(33:33):
in his head.
How is he feeling about whatever?
Because he likely has more frustration
inside than you know.
And very likely a lot of shame too.
He might not know the word shame,
but he's probably not
feeling good about himself.
(33:54):
And you said it so beautifully before.
You said, "This kid needs a win."
Yes, our kids all need wins.
When you go too long between wins,
you feel really bad about yourself
and you start to
assume you are the problem.
Right, right.
So I want our listeners to
know that we have done podcasts
and we have resource pages on reading,
(34:17):
helping your son be a better reader
and also communication
for elementary school
and boys of different ages.
At the end of every podcast,
I asked our guests to
give us a guiding thought,
a mantra, something
that elementary school mom
might be able to say to
(34:38):
herself during those moments.
Do you have one?
Believe in your boy.
Believe in your boy.
Believe in his inherent
goodness and his ability.
He might be struggling with
fill in the blank right now.
It will not always be like this.
(35:00):
Believe in your boy
and believe in yourself.
That'll get you through.
It will.
And I also just want to add,
you know, the MOB, the mothers of boys,
to have a community of friends
that you can speak honestly about issues
(35:21):
and collaborate on
solutions is very, very powerful.
Hugely important because
so many of us moms of boys,
we don't expect this
when our boys hit school.
When they start getting in trouble,
when they start struggling,
we think we are doing something wrong.
We don't realize it's a systemic problem
and that most of the moms of boys
(35:43):
are dealing with the same thing.
So we try and solve it on
our own while also feeling bad.
Instead of being honest,
where everybody could feel better.
And as you said, we can
work together communally
to find solutions that work for our boys.
Talk with the other moms of boys.
And that's the motivation
(36:04):
really behind both of us,
writing our books.
Tell us specifically about each book
and where people can find them.
The first one I wrote was
First Time Mom's Guide to Raising Boys.
That is primarily aimed at moms of boys,
basically kindergarten through age eight,
(36:25):
available on Amazon.
Building Boys, Raising Great Guys
in a World That Misunderstands Males,
also is on Amazon.
And it is coming out in
paperback this summer.
Right now it's currently out
in audiobook and hardcover.
The paperback will be out in August.
And one of the things
(36:45):
that I want to do with that
is do more interactive book studies
and conversations with that.
So stay tuned because I may
be sharing news about that
as the summer goes on as we get closer.
Fabulous.
And I hope you come back and
talk with us about older kids.
(37:06):
Yeah, I would love to.
Terrific.
Thank you for joining.
Thanks, Suzy.
(upbeat music)
I'm Suzy Shaw, mom of two now adult boys
and author of the book,
Mother of Boys Survival Guide.
This podcast shares
practical insights, expert advice,
and real conversations to help moms raise
confident, capable boys.
You can find more episodes and resources
(00:20):
at mothersofboys.life.
Now, let's get into today's conversation.
Why Boys Struggle in Elementary School
and What Moms Can Do About I t.
I have sat in a back-to-school night the
first week of school
with my husband and listened
to our son's third grade teacher tell us,
(00:42):
"Your kids are not
going to have a good year."
As we looked at each other, our hearts
sank, and she was right.
It was a horrible year for Exuberance,
and a lot of kids in the
class, primarily the boys.
And that wasn't our first
issue in elementary school.
(01:04):
His older brother,
Ernest, had his challenges, too.
But the fact that she said it out loud to
a room full of parents
was kind of astonishing.
And it turns out this isn't just one
classroom or one teacher.
In many schools, boys make up the
majority of
behavior-related calls home and discipline
(01:26):
referrals, and it often starts as early
as kindergarten and first grade.
So if your son is struggling or already
says he hates school, you are not alone.
Today I'm talking with Jennifer Fink,
author of Building Boys,
(01:47):
Raising Great Guys in a World That
Misunderstands Males, and the First Time
Moms Guide to Raising
Boys, Practical Advice for
Your Son's Formative Years.
She's also a nurse, a writer, and a mom
of four boys who has navigated these
challenges firsthand,
including making the decision to
(02:08):
homeschool her own
boys for several years.
We're going to talk about what's really
happening in those
early elementary years,
and why so many boys struggle sooner than
we expect, and how to
positively advocate for your son.
Jenny, welcome.
Thanks so much for having me to talk
about this today, Suzy.
(02:29):
I appreciate you being here, and also for
sending me your books.
This is the Building Boys, and another
one for first time moms.
So tell us a little bit about yourself
and your inspirations to write the books.
(02:49):
My inspiration was very similar to yours.
I had boys. I had boys. And
by the time I had two boys,
formative moment in hindsight, there was
a point where both boys,
they were like laying on the
floor, sprawled the way kids sprawl in
front of the TV, watching, I
(03:10):
think it was Sesame Street or
something. Their dad was home. I was
home. We were sitting on the couch. We
were probably having our
own adult conversation. And for no
apparent reason that I could tell, the
boys just randomly got up
and started running and jumping up and
down the couches, chasing
each other, jumping, tackling.
(03:31):
And I'm looking at them like, "I don't
understand this. Why? Why?"
And their dad's like, "Yeah,
that's normal." And that was sort of my
beginning. There's
something different here.
Why speak when you could
just tackle somebody, right?
Right? There's something different here.
So I started learning
more about boys, really,
(03:54):
to survive my own life, to have some
understanding of what's going on and
coping mechanisms that I
could use as I parent my own boys. And as
my oldest, then got
into school and we started
running into some of these issues that
you've already
mentioned in the beginning.
(04:15):
I think that's when I went a little
further down. I learned a
little more. I had already started
writing, transitioning from nursing
full-time as a career to also writing.
And I, at some point,
pitched an article about boys and
learning in school. And I got to
interview people that were
already working in the field, learned
(04:36):
more, and everything just
snowballed and grew from there.
So in those earlier years of elementary
school, what was your experience like and
what kind of issues did you have?
We made it until first grade. No,
kindergarten. It was kindergarten
(04:58):
already. When my oldest son, who of
course is my first kid to go
to school, started saying he
hated school.
I was not prepared for that in first
grade, in kindergarten.
I mean in kindergarten,
how do you hate kindergarten?
I expected that I would
hear that at some point.
I think every kid at a certain point
(05:20):
says, "I hate school."
I was thinking middle school.
I was not thinking kindergarten.
And to be honest, I kind of brushed it
off for quite a while.
Just the reassurances and the, I hate to
say I did this, but this
was where, no, you don't.
You don't have a lot
of friends at school.
Look at all the fun things you do.
(05:40):
It did take me until he was in first
grade to really kind of
sit down and listen to what
he was saying and then combine that with
some of what I was observing.
And when I sat down and listened to him,
ultimately he was both bored.
(06:03):
He was struggling on the playground.
He wanted to play elaborate make believe
games and some of the
other kids just wanted
to tackle each other, which is totally
fine, except for that
there was also a school rule
against tackling each other.
And my kid had a very strong sense of
right, wrong, and justice
(06:24):
at that point that allowed
for no gray spaces.
And if you are a boy in kindergarten and
first grade, that does not
make you a lot of friends
at that point in time.
So it was kind of a culmination of all of
these things that made
me, again, I did research
and I looked kind of long and hard and I
(06:45):
found out, huh, mine's
not the only kid dealing
with some of these issues in
kindergarten in first grade.
I was really surprised to learn that boys
consistently make up
the majority of school
discipline referrals.
So from your research and your
(07:07):
experience, how common is that?
So distressingly common.
No, I did not experience
that with my oldest son.
And spoiler alert, although you alluded
to it in the beginning,
we did ultimately pull
him out of what I call school school
halfway through first
grade and then homeschooled
for a number of years.
(07:28):
The next of my children to go from like
kindergarten through the
system was my youngest one.
The older ones did
those early years at home.
Him, oh, we ran into this all the time.
I got more calls and emails from school
about bad things than good things.
(07:49):
Thankfully, at this point, I
knew that we were not alone.
So statistically speaking, Suzy, this
starts even earlier than kindergarten.
It starts in preschool.
Boys make up approximately half of the
kids in preschool in
the United States, as you
would expect based on demographics.
But they make up 80% of the
(08:12):
suspensions from preschool.
Note that from preschool and the
statistics are even more
alarming for brown boys.
For so many kids, their first experiences
with a school setting is getting in
trouble, getting kicked out, which is
(08:34):
this, it forms this
foundation of you don't belong here.
Academically speaking, boys end up
lagging behind girls all the way through.
Now again, we're talking broad
generalities. We are not
talking every boy, every girl.
The best research that I found so far,
when boys enter school, kindergarten,
(08:55):
first grade, they're a little behind. And
I'm putting air quotes around this
because I think we need to look at what
our standards are, what we are expecting
when people come in.
They are a little behind girls in terms
of reading. This gap broadens as boys go
through school. It broadens.
(09:16):
Boys are more likely to be at the failing
end of the class. Girls are more likely
to be at the A's part of the class. Boys
are far more likely to be in the special
ed programs. They are more likely to be
in the school office.
And there is even really good research to
show that even when boys and girls do the
(09:36):
same things behavior wise, the boy is
more likely to get in trouble and or
harsh trouble compared to the girl.
And on the academic side, that girls and
boys, even when they do the same work,
and they've done this in studies where
you know you're blind, who did what work.
Teachers will judge the boy's work when
(10:00):
they know it's a boy, not as good, not
give it as high a grade as they would to
a girl that did the same work.
There is unconscious bias going on here.
And that's important to know. And that's
not at all what you are thinking about
when you send your beautiful, innocent,
enthusiastic, exuberant child to school
(10:22):
for the first time, right?
Right. My oldest I call Ernest. And in
second grade, he was like, I'm done. I'm
not going to school anymore. Second
grade. And I started to dig into it. And
he was not finishing his morning work and
(10:46):
was being punished by having
to stay in during free play.
That's such a big, such a big common
thing that happens to boys and it almost
never actually helps the problem.
Well, it makes the problem worse because
of all the things of, you know, getting
some energy out. That's the thing that's
(11:06):
going to help save you. And I did go in
and sit and talk with the teacher and we
came up with a solution where she
understood that that is not a good
solution for him to
punish him in that way.
And that he can bring the work home,
whatever he's missed, and we'd do it as
(11:26):
part of our homework, which was difficult
too. But, you know, still better. And
your most boys, if you ask them what
their favorite classes are in elementary
school, they're going to
say gym, lunch, and free play.
Lunch and recess, lunch
(11:46):
and recess, lunch and recess.
That's it.
You know, because I don't want to feel
like we are saying poor
things about teachers, I want to share a
story of Exuberance
in second grade. And he, his
teacher had flagged me down and said he's
reporting that he can't do math because
(12:08):
he, the numbers are spinning on him.
And so we took him to have his eyes
checked and it turned out he had no
issues at all with his eyes, did not need
glasses. And so I explained that to him
on the way home and
he totally fell apart.
(12:29):
He insisted that he needed glasses.
This is one of those parenting moments.
There are the things that we think
we are going to have to deal with.
You never expect that telling your kid
that their eyes are good is going to
result in a meltdown.
You know, it was,
now I feel like I'm really
(12:50):
leaning into the crazy, right?
So now I am literally
getting him glasses,
you know, at one of
those very quick glass shops
because I can't give him something
without safety glass
in it, for Lord's sake.
I mean, his name is Exuberance, right?
(13:11):
So we give him the
glasses, I send him off to school.
I forget to mention it to the teacher.
So I see her, I don't know, a week later
and she's like, "Wow,
the glasses are great.
It's making such a difference."
And I was like,
"Okay, they're not really glasses.
(13:34):
They, he doesn't really need glasses.
He thinks he needs glasses.
I think he would prefer to wear a cape."
But without the cape, he's decided,
look smart, be smart, feel smart.
And so, you know, fast
forward another couple of weeks
(13:54):
and the teacher flags
me down and she says,
"The glasses are the greatest thing.
I've ever had in my
class because when I see him
hold the glasses out and stick them on,
I realize I've just
lost about half the class."
So I back up and teach
everything a little bit again.
(14:17):
And so that, I mean, that's a
story of a fabulous teacher.
And a fabulous parent.
And a, I mean, you were
in this situation where,
I do not understand what's happening.
I don't know why it's happening.
There is no playbook for this.
(14:37):
You are making it up as you went along,
but you were looking at
and listening to your son.
And when you do the math,
pun slightly intended here,
when you do the math,
if he thinks glasses are going to help,
and if we can get him, you know,
a cheap-ish pair of glasses.
(14:59):
And yeah, of course you had to figure out
how to get safety glass
because we're talking about
like a seven, eight year old boy.
They're not known for being careful.
Standing ovation to you
for figuring that out.
And then you had this continual dialogue
with the teacher, right?
The teacher was open to that as well.
Like, I love everything about that story.
(15:20):
So what did you learn,
you know, about advocating
and working with the
school and the teacher,
you know, to make your boys successful?
You know, I just said something
that I think is core to all of this.
And so many people, moms,
parents, educators included,
(15:43):
there's so much we don't know about boys
and about male development.
Teachers don't learn this.
I didn't know it until I had boys
and went looking on my own, for instance.
And I think this is key to all of it.
Boys and girls
develop at different paces.
(16:03):
It's not so much that
there are like these inherent
differences that boys are good at this
and girls are good at that.
And you know, the two never shall cross.
It's not so much that.
However, biologically speaking,
boy babies developmentally
are weeks behind where girls babies,
where girl babies are when they're born.
(16:24):
And when I'm talking
about full-term infants,
I'm talking about babies
that are born at, you know,
that 40 week or
whatever mark of pregnancy.
Boys are not as mature.
They're hearing their
vision, their brains,
their coordination, not as
mature as girl babies at birth.
That difference continues through life.
(16:47):
Boys develop more slowly than girls.
So that by the time we have our kids
in early elementary school, right?
The girls are the part of
the brain that handles reading,
writing, language is more
mature than the boys brains,
similar part of the brain
by about a year and a half.
(17:08):
Now, by adulthood, we
get to the same place,
but also think about all
the teenagers that you know,
there is a dramatic
difference between a 15 year old girl
and a 15 year old boy.
And it's not just immaturity,
which we often think of as
kind of mental immaturity
or stupidity on the part of boys.
(17:28):
It's not, it is
biological, it is cognitive.
But because we don't
acknowledge that, we don't teach that,
we don't factor that in.
Now let's add back.
Kindergarten, first grade
today are very different
than they were when I went to school.
(17:50):
When I went to school, the
things that you were learning
in first grade are things
that now kids are expected
to do in kindergarten,
sometimes even in preschool.
In preschool, they're asking
children to write their names.
If your fine motor is
such that you're not great
at holding onto a pen, that's really,
really hard for you.
(18:11):
So we are continually taking boys
and putting them in these circumstances
that aren't a good
fit for their abilities.
And then they get the
message that they're failing.
It's not that the
expectations are wrong, they are failing.
So I paint that as the background.
When it comes to
advocating for our boys in school
(18:33):
and helping them through
this, sometimes you get lucky.
Sometimes you get a
teacher that is very open-minded
and yes, understands that
taking away recess or free play
is harmful to the child
and will work with you.
And other times you
are working with a system
that is not responsive,
a system that is static
and for reasons that perhaps are even out
(18:56):
of the administrator's
control, they can't change,
they won't change.
That's really, really, really difficult.
I will say that in this other school,
after that horrible reaction with the
third grade teacher,
I did go in and I talked
with the guidance counselor
and we had a very serious
(19:16):
conversation about male teachers
because the boys had
never had, neither one of them
had never had a male teacher
and they had two male
teachers in fourth grade.
And I'm like, you have
got to give him a win.
Give him a male teacher.
And that changed everything for him
(19:39):
wanting to go to school.
I mean, just to be
able to have somebody say,
wear your favorite
football team sweatshirt.
And then they all talked about football
for a minute, right?
Those little shifts, having a male was
really, really powerful
and there just aren't
(20:00):
very many men teaching.
There are fewer male
teachers today than there were.
The numbers have been
declining and it's not good.
It's not good for our boys.
It's not good for our girls.
Girls need to see male teachers as well.
And I don't think it's good
for our men and women either.
(20:21):
I think that, you know, it
is good for men to work with
and be in contact with children.
Because of my writing, I've
also written for education.
I mean, teaching does
not pay what it should.
Teaching is not an
appreciated position in a lot of places.
It should be, but
(20:41):
teachers are getting blamed left
and right and put in situations,
no win situations, very
similar to our children.
So unless and until we
change those things, yeah,
people aren't going into
education that could be great.
And that's really hard.
That's really hard for all of us.
If there are male teachers in your
(21:01):
school, yes, fantastic.
If your son, if your
daughter has access to that.
You know, one of the
reasons why I wrote my book,
Building Boys, Raising
Great Guys in a World
That Misunderstands Males, is because
when you are parenting,
you don't have time for the
systems to fix everything.
You can advocate for your son.
(21:23):
You can do your best
to get him in as great
of an educational
environment as possible.
But very often it's
not going to be ideal.
And you still are
tasked with how do I nurture
this child in this less
than ideal environment?
And I'm here to tell
you, it is 100% possible.
(21:44):
Even if school is a
struggle for you, little things.
Susie, you mentioned like,
where your favorite football
team jersey to school, right?
And you can talk about football.
A female teacher could do that too.
It may or may not have the same impact.
Another thing that happens
so often to our boys in school
is they get these
messages, both spoken and unspoken,
(22:06):
that what they are
interested in is not okay at school.
Not okay.
You cannot swing sticks
around on the playground.
You cannot tackle each other.
You cannot and should not,
don't even try to write
a story or draw a picture
that has any kind of violence in it
because you will likely get in trouble,
(22:29):
called to, talk to the teacher,
your parent will get called in,
the school counselor may get called in.
How do I know?
Oh, because it happened to me.
There are stories in my book.
I mean, my kid, I got
a call from the teacher
because he drew a picture
of a shark attacking humans.
(22:51):
Okay, like that is the plot of "Jaws."
Big worldwide movie.
So boys get these subtle messages
that the things they are interested in,
there's no space for them at school.
And one of the things I
have found that parents can do
is make room for and
(23:12):
welcome your son's interest
as much as possible.
So even if he can't talk about
or read about whatever his interest is,
whether it's like knights and dragons
or World War, whatever,
which yes, does involve
killing people, sadly,
or motocross or dance,
(23:33):
whatever his thing is, you
can still go with your son
and get books from the
library and read those books
and share those books
and let him read, write,
talk about whatever at home,
give him space and time
to pursue his interest
so that even if school is not necessarily
(23:56):
a safe and nurturing place for him,
he has a place where
he can be all of him.
And I think that that
ultimately makes a difference
and then gives our boys the resilience
to deal in these situations
that are sometimes challenging for them.
I 100% agree.
(24:18):
You know, some of the things
that I did during that period
was to get more involved in school.
And even though I was working,
I volunteered to read
in the school classroom.
I would go on field trips.
I tried to get to know the teacher.
That same guidance
(24:39):
counselor that I begged to give him
a fourth grade male
teacher, which she did,
told me that elementary
school was just tough for boys
and that they begin to
catch up in middle school
and by high school, you're going to be okay.
And so I did find at least that knowledge
(25:04):
and as empowering a little bit.
So you're talking about
maturity and development
and fewer males and, you
know, is there anything else?
The early years, elementary school,
part of why elementary school is so, so
challenging for boys
is the focus is so
(25:26):
heavily on reading and writing.
Reading and writing, reading and writing.
And yes, there's math, but
it's still a very written thing.
And the whole idea in
school is that we concentrate
on these things because
you're learning to read
up until about third grade,
but then by third grade on,
you're going to be reading to learn.
This reading is
(25:46):
foundational to the learning process.
Little boys primarily learn by doing.
They learn by doing.
I just wish that we
could flip the school system,
that we spent those
early years allowing kids
to continue to learn the
way that they've been learning
up until that point, which is pretty much
(26:07):
by like trying
things, seeing what happens,
trying something else, exploring,
that we continue to curate
and encourage their curiosity.
And then when they
started expressing an interest
in reading and writing,
we worked on those things.
That's not how our schools
are structured right now.
And I do think that is another part of
why our boys struggle
(26:29):
in school.
They want to learn.
They are curious.
If you have ever
watched a preschool aged boy,
a toddler boy, they're
exploring the world constantly.
If we found ways to
continue to encourage that rather
than saying sit down, do
this, and here's the boundaries
of acceptable behavior, I
(26:50):
think we'd get better outcomes
for our boys.
I don't think so many
of them by first grade,
by second grade would
be saying, I hate school.
For what it's worth,
there are places that do that.
They're not super common.
They're not everywhere.
For those who have access
to it, like forest schools,
(27:10):
nature schools, I think
those can be fantastic options
for boys and girls,
especially in those early years,
if that is available to you.
It's not everywhere.
One of the things that we did was create
a boys only book club because the boys
a boys only book club because the boys
didn't want to read.
I didn't feel like they
were being offered stories
(27:33):
that they were interested in.
And the Spiderwick
Chronicles had just come out.
And so taking the
girls out of the equation
who were primarily great
readers and just having it
be this small group of third grade boys,
where each one after one of these books,
(27:53):
they would, each one
would have to say something
that they liked or
didn't like about the book.
I gave them a bunch of
snacks and then that was it.
I mean, that was like the book club.
And then they went out and played.
Was it something you did after school?
It wasn't a part of the school.
It wasn't part of the
school, but it was so successful
with my first son that
(28:13):
when we switched schools
into a new elementary
school, I went and pitched the idea
to the librarian to do
it for the entire school.
And because my background
was, you know, television,
video production, I said, look,
I will create a video
book report from the winner
(28:35):
of third, fourth and fifth grade.
So you all pick, let
the kids read the books,
turn in their book
reports and then whoever wins
will record it and
play it for the school.
That's a great idea.
That was such a positive experience
that the whole school got into it.
(28:59):
There's another mom that I know
and she did the same with her boys.
She has two sons also,
started a book club for boys.
She started with her older one.
And I think her son was
a little older than yours
when they started, I'll have to check.
And it went on for
years and then ultimately
did the same thing with her younger one.
(29:20):
So I think that is a fantastic idea.
And another great example of
how parents can kind of fill in
and supplement what
is going on in school.
Absolutely love that so, so much.
One thing I ran into with my oldest son
in the early grades, he loved stories.
(29:41):
He loved listening to stories.
He was very motivated to read.
However, he was
frustrated because the books
that he could read at that
point were so boring and stupid
and not the interesting
things that he wanted to read.
And when we made the
decision to homeschool him,
one very frustrating day,
(30:02):
because I'm trying to
get him to read aloud
because I thought this
is what you need to do.
This is how kids learn how to read.
This is all I'd ever heard.
He got so frustrated.
He blew up.
He got mad at me.
I got mad at him.
And that's when he finally said,
he hates trying to read aloud.
He just wants time for his brain
to figure out the words instead.
(30:25):
That made perfect sense to me.
That made perfect sense.
Some of the books I was
reading aloud at that point
were the Junie B. Jones books.
Did your boys get
into those at all, Suzy?
No.
One teacher at school
had started reading them
and he loved those books.
So we had some of those books at home.
And I will never forget,
(30:46):
I can only read so much at a time
because like every busy parent,
I have other things to do.
One night he'd gone to bed.
The other ones went to bed.
Their dad and I are
trying to do grown up stuff,
get stuff done.
And he comes sneaking down the stairs
and it's very late at night,
but he finished the Junie
B. Jones book all on his own.
We gave him that time
(31:06):
and he was motivated enough
that when he was
ready, he figured it out.
And I'm sharing this
because there are other avenues
to get to the same place.
He was frustrated with reading aloud.
We kept reading aloud to him
and still gave him ways to access stories
that were interesting to him.
He also struggled with writing a lot.
(31:27):
The physical act of writing,
that's hard for a lot of boys.
Yeah, we had that problem also.
One of the other things
that I did at that time was,
it's different now because
now you can use technology
to do this, but I allowed
him to dictate stories to me.
I would type it because
he could write mentally,
(31:47):
he could compose
sentences, he could compose stories,
but he really struggled with
the physical act of writing.
It took time for his
brain and body to catch up.
And yes, now he can write
things both with the computer
and with his hand and he's a
perfectly functional grownup.
(laughs)
They do catch up.
They do.
One of the things I also found is that
(32:09):
if there was a behavioral issue
and they were acting out in class,
that often was because of frustration
and their fear of falling behind.
And then trying to get to
the root of what it was,
we could then get him a tutor.
(32:31):
And we did that even in third grade.
We put him in a program to help catch up
and that made a big
difference in their attitude
towards school.
Do you find that also?
Yeah, boys, broadly
speaking, will act out
instead of telling you what's wrong.
(32:52):
They may not have the words
themselves, that's part of it.
Key for parents and
teachers to keep in mind.
Boys don't want to do badly, ever.
They don't.
They don't want to get
in trouble at school.
They don't want to not be able to do
their assignments well.
They want to do well.
(33:13):
So if there is something that is
happening repeatedly,
it really is
worthwhile to take some time,
spend some time with that boy.
Don't necessarily lead with,
"Hey, you're not
finishing your assignments.
You can get there."
But try and listen and
figure out what's going on
(33:33):
in his head.
How is he feeling about whatever?
Because he likely has more frustration
inside than you know.
And very likely a lot of shame too.
He might not know the word shame,
but he's probably not
feeling good about himself.
(33:54):
And you said it so beautifully before.
You said, "This kid needs a win."
Yes, our kids all need wins.
When you go too long between wins,
you feel really bad about yourself
and you start to
assume you are the problem.
Right, right.
So I want our listeners to
know that we have done podcasts
and we have resource pages on reading,
(34:17):
helping your son be a better reader
and also communication
for elementary school
and boys of different ages.
At the end of every podcast,
I asked our guests to
give us a guiding thought,
a mantra, something
that elementary school mom
might be able to say to
(34:38):
herself during those moments.
Do you have one?
Believe in your boy.
Believe in your boy.
Believe in his inherent
goodness and his ability.
He might be struggling with
fill in the blank right now.
It will not always be like this.
(35:00):
Believe in your boy
and believe in yourself.
That'll get you through.
It will.
And I also just want to add,
you know, the MOB, the mothers of boys,
to have a community of friends
that you can speak honestly about issues
(35:21):
and collaborate on
solutions is very, very powerful.
Hugely important because
so many of us moms of boys,
we don't expect this
when our boys hit school.
When they start getting in trouble,
when they start struggling,
we think we are doing something wrong.
We don't realize it's a systemic problem
and that most of the moms of boys
(35:43):
are dealing with the same thing.
So we try and solve it on
our own while also feeling bad.
Instead of being honest,
where everybody could feel better.
And as you said, we can
work together communally
to find solutions that work for our boys.
Talk with the other moms of boys.
And that's the motivation
(36:04):
really behind both of us,
writing our books.
Tell us specifically about each book
and where people can find them.
The first one I wrote was
First Time Mom's Guide to Raising Boys.
That is primarily aimed at moms of boys,
basically kindergarten through age eight,
(36:25):
available on Amazon.
Building Boys, Raising Great Guys
in a World That Misunderstands Males,
also is on Amazon.
And it is coming out in
paperback this summer.
Right now it's currently out
in audiobook and hardcover.
The paperback will be out in August.
And one of the things
(36:45):
that I want to do with that
is do more interactive book studies
and conversations with that.
So stay tuned because I may
be sharing news about that
as the summer goes on as we get closer.
Fabulous.
And I hope you come back and
talk with us about older kids.
(37:06):
Yeah, I would love to.
Terrific.
Thank you for joining.
Thanks, Suzy.
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