What does it take to build a philosophy of care that has transformed the lives of hundreds of animals — and the people who loved them?
In this special episode of Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, Karen Wylie sits down with Gail Pope — founder of BrightHaven sanctuary and co-founder of BrightHaven Caregiver Academy — to celebrate the release of The BrightHaven Way: Lessons from 700 Animal Teachers.
But first, the story behind the story.
Gail never intended to publish this book. In fact, she had completely forgotten she'd written it — until Karen discovered a PDF in her inbox dated 2019 and asked one simple question: Why didn't you publish this?
What followed was bringing Gail's unfinished memoir to life — just in time for her 80th birthday.
In Part One of this two-part conversation, Karen and Gail explore:
- How Gail began writing what would become The BrightHaven Way — and why she set it aside
- The origin of BrightHaven's famous Menu for Healing — and why it's called the "love sandwich"
- How Gail arrived in America at age 40 with no career plan — and stumbled into a calling
- Her deeply conventional beginning in animal care — and what started to crack it open
- The unforgettable Vicki Allenson, the volunteer who changed everything one quiet afternoon in the kitchen
- The moment Gail realized the raw diet was working — old cats jumping onto countertops that had been out of reach for years
- Why the BrightHaven Way isn't a program you have to follow completely — it's a menu you pick from
This conversation is honest, warm, and often funny. Gail describes being dragged "kicking and screaming" into almost every element of the philosophy she's now known for — and that honesty is exactly what makes it so powerful.
Whether you're new to BrightHaven or have followed Gail's work for years, this episode will show you a side of her journey you haven't heard before.💜
📌 Related Resource:
- 📖 The BrightHaven Way: Lessons from 700 Animal Teachers is available now on a pay-what-you-wish basis - https://brightpathforpets.com/bca-shop
- 📖 Animal Hospice Group - https://www.animalhospicegroup.com/
- 📖 Living Quality of Life Care Assessment - https://brightpathforpets.com/resources-html/#LivingQOL
- 📖 Peaceful Quality of Dying Assessment - https://brightpathforpets.com/resources-html/#PeacefulQOD
🌹 Join our monthly Rose Ceremony (free online pet celebration): https://brightpathforpets.com/rose-ceremony/
💬 If this episode touched your heart, you’re not alone. The BrightHaven Caregivers’ Hub is our supportive membership community for pet parents navigating caregiving, anticipatory grief, and all the moments in between.
We gather to share stories, ask questions, and care for each other as we care for our animals. If you’re walking this path, we’d be honored to walk it with you.
🔗 Learn more about the Hub: https://brightpathforpets.com/caregivers-hub/
📌Thanks for listening! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review 🐶⭐🐱
💜 Karen Wylie, EdD is the Executive Director of the Animal Hospice Group and Co-Founder of BrightHaven Caregiver Academy. With decades of experience as an educator, caregiver, and organizational consultant, Karen has personally navigated the caregiving journey with cats, dogs, and horses through chronic illness and end-of-life transitions. Her mission is to give pet parents the tools, knowledge, and confidence to provide the best possible care for their animals at every stage of life. Learn more at BrightPathForPets.com
💜 Gail Pope is the Founder and President of BrightHaven, a nonprofit animal sanctuary, hospice, and educational center with over thirty years of experience providing holistic care to senior and special needs animals. Internationally recognized for her pioneering work in animal hospice and natural passing, Gail has personally ca
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here as always with Gale Pope.
Today is going to be a little different.
We're not going to be focusing on one hospice topic or caregiver topic.
Today we're going to be talking about the release of the "BrightHaven Way (01:06):
Lessons from 700 animal teachers" and this manuscript has an interesting history.
So before we talk about what's in the book, I'd like to share a little bit about how it actually came into being.
Gail last fall you sent me a PDF among several PDFs.
(01:29):
This one was dated 2019 and I'd seen versions of the "Menu for Healing".
Over time, we've talked about it here on the podcast so I knew the structure of it and the parts of it but this document was different.
It wasn't just what the Menu was— it was how it developed, how it evolved at BrightHaven.
(01:51):
What you wrote was personal and reflective and almost certainly in part a memoir of the development of how you did everything at BrightHaven.
Do you remember when you first started writing that manuscript?
Gail Pope (02:05):
Oh, not entirely.
I started writing it after the sanctuary moved from Southern California to Northern California and then after we settled in and life had started to become more about education.
I guess it was around about that time that I started realizing that we developed a pattern.
(02:25):
We had certain ways of doing things like writing the animals files, doing medication, creating all the different forms.
The people we worked with and the way we thought or the way I thought that I'd learned to think.
So putting it all down on paper, "Wow, this is it! It's the way we do things at BrightHaven."
I think it must have been around the time that I actually started doing consultations.
(02:50):
Perhaps how it came up, "How do you do that at BrightHaven?"
It made my mind start clicking into, "Ooh, that's interesting." Because we actually do have a method for every single little piece that we do with our animals.
Whether it's veterinary care, feeding, all sorts of care, whether it's self-care— all of it all fits in.
(03:11):
That became the menu.
Karen Wylie (03:12):
Wow!
It was wonderful for me to be reading that draft because, as I said, I was familiar with the menu for healing and the parts of it.
When I first read that PDF, I realized it was something important because it told your story behind the philosophy.
Gail Pope (03:30):
It wasn't meant to be about the menu.
In all honesty, it was about my journey.
It was something that I thought, "I'll start writing this now. It could be a book at some time later on in my life."
I never even finished.
In fact, I should share with everyone that I had completely forgotten about that until you surprised me by picking it up.
(03:52):
Then what, a week ago, 10 days ago you said, "Hey, look what I've done with what you wrote."
Oh God, how embarrassing.
Karen Wylie (04:01):
Surprise!
Gail Pope (04:02):
It was a surprise.
But I really enjoyed what I wrote back then.
I would take myself off into my little office every now and again if I could each day.
It wasn't always each day, even for just half an hour, and I'd refresh my memory for what I'd written about and think then the next thought would come.
So I'd write a little bit and then I'd just get back to the day.
(04:24):
So it just gradually grew and morphed into the journey to get us to where we were.
Karen Wylie (04:30):
I think that's really what struck me and what I loved about it is it wasn't just the components.
It was the evolution of you, of your thinking and your feeling, and what you were experiencing and seeing with your animal teachers and learning from that.
Gail Pope (04:45):
That really underscores the whole thing because I could write a million stories about the animals that came.
Funnily enough, in the last week I visited some of the obituaries or stories that I'd written about animals 20 or 30 years ago and sat and sobbed my heart out because I hadn't actually at this point gone back in my mind and remembered each one taught something and they were all lessons about love and life and living in the moment and "being"— everything.
(05:16):
They were so clear and honest in the way that they lived that taught me how I wanted to live.
Then seeing animals with chronic or terminal illness or disability and seeing how they lived their lives so darned joyfully.
That's what struck other people so much.
They'd come and feel sorry and, "Oh my goodness.
Oh, hold on a minute.
(05:37):
Why is he chasing that toy?" Or "What's going on here?
This is really weird.
Are they all on drugs or what?"
It just created a certain balance (05:46):
for healing of body, mind, and spirit.
And spirit was where the animals really shone.
It really underscored for us that we got something here.
It works.
It may not be for everyone but certainly for us, for our lifestyle, for these animals, they couldn't be happier or healthier with the situation that they were in with their medical issues.
Karen Wylie (06:11):
I think any time I have seen the photographs of Joey and is it Ollie?
The two of them with their little wheel carts and they were just so joyful and loving every moment of their life with you.
Gail Pope (06:26):
Exactly!
But I do know that in that photograph, Ollie was approaching probably his 23rd or 24th year.
Karen Wylie (06:33):
Oh my goodness.
Gail Pope (06:34):
And he doesn't look like a 24-year-old dog or even if it was maybe a year or two before that, he doesn't look like he's in his twenties.
Karen Wylie (06:42):
No.
Gail Pope (06:42):
There's the young Joey and the old Ollie and you can see there's a difference.
Karen Wylie (06:46):
There's a difference.
Gail Pope (06:47):
But there's a spark in those eyes.
They both got it.
Karen Wylie (06:50):
Exactly.
When you look at that photo which we're including in the book because it's just one of my favorites, your favorites.
When you look at them, you don't see disability or different ability.
You only see those faces— it's just joy.
It's pure joy.
That's just so essential to everything that we do ourselves for our animals because we're trying to preserve the joy that they have in their lives day to day too.
(07:15):
So that's probably at least one of the reasons why it so appeals to me.
In finishing this book we gathered together some of your earlier writings to make sure that the chapters reflected the full arc of your thinking.
Because as you're saying your thinking evolved over the years from at one point being very conventional in your care of pets to begin seeing things differently and then sharing how and why your thinking changed.
(07:44):
So when we say the BrightHaven way, what does that actually mean?
What do you think people are going to get from the BrightHaven way?
Gail Pope (07:52):
Oh, I don't know.
I guess each person will read it— the actual Menu, if you like.
I think if I was reading it and I didn't know me, I was just new to it, I'd be thinking about my own life, my own animals and what Bright Haven has developed— how it resonated.
Maybe it didn't, some people will follow parts of it but to me that's the beauty because it's evolved into a menu and you don't have to pick all of it out.
(08:20):
You can pick one bit and say, "As far as the diet goes, they obviously had an amazing result with that.
And I'm like Gail, she was very resistant at the beginning.
There's no way she was going to do this crazy thing that would kill all our animals.
But now I'm looking at what happened.
Maybe I should think about this.
Maybe it's something that I should consider for my cat and dog, maybe not."
(08:42):
I don't know.
I think everybody approaches the things we read differently and sometimes we get a spark of interest on one topic or another and we explore.
So I guess, I'm still reeling from the shock of this kind of thing going public but I think I'm just at this point hoping that one little piece here or there will excite the reader and like me, open their eyes a little to something that they're not used to.
Karen Wylie (09:09):
There's so many parts of the philosophy and people can pick and choose.
It's not like a program that you have to implement all the pieces for it to work.
It's not that kind of thing.
I think people will read it and as you're saying be prompted to consider what parts of it might work for them that they might be interested in trying.
(09:31):
Of course, the "Menu for Healing" is something we have talked about on the podcast and has been a part of the BrightHaven website for a very long time too.
It's often referred to as the "Love Sandwich", which is a very practical metaphor.
How did that come about to call it the "Love Sandwich"?
Gail Pope (09:47):
I don't know.
I can't remember.
We've called it the "Love Sandwich" for an awful long time, and I can't remember exactly when that appeared.
Probably in a delightful conversation maybe with Carol and we just talked about it.
I think that's probably how it did happen in conversation.
It begins with love and it has to end with love.
(10:08):
Oh, it's like a love sandwich.
It's obvious but exactly when that happened, it was a long time ago, and we've called it that for years.
Karen Wylie (10:15):
For a long time.
It's just a wonderful wonderful metaphor to think of it that way and because of it then when I think of all the other components of it.
I think of them as layers in the sandwich.
Gail Pope (10:27):
Yes, exactly.
It just makes sense.
Karen Wylie (10:30):
That's right.
You can make a lot of different sandwiches using lots of different layers or maybe you don't have this layer.
It's lots of individuality that can be.
Gail Pope (10:37):
Let's face it, it's more fun than having a "toolbox".
Karen Wylie (10:42):
Definitely.
One of the things that you've been very open with everyone about when we talk about this, is that you didn't start out being holistic in all of your approaches.
You were very conventional at the very beginning.
So can you share what it was like to slowly shift your thinking, especially around diet?
Gail Pope (11:03):
Let's see.
We came from England.
I was 40 years old and I had no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life.
Obviously my husband had been transferred.
Richard was transferred by his company, so he obviously had a job here.
I was in a situation where I wasn't at liberty to work.
I didn't have a work permit at that point, so I had more time and I had no idea what I was going to do.
(11:27):
So when we baby stepped into the field of animal care, it was a divine intervention.
I had never planned other than when I was five years old to really get involved with animals.
Particularly long story and a lot of synchronicities involved.
Then I decided that I want to start an animal rescue group that was "Cats are People Too".
(11:50):
So we did that for almost two years and got very well used to it.
Of course, I could not get well used to the adoption process because you know what it's like for most of us.
You lose your heart to this someone who comes to you for help.
Karen Wylie (12:04):
You were a failed foster just like the rest of us.
Gail Pope (12:07):
Both Richard and I became a failed foster very quickly and realized that unless we became a humongously big family, we couldn't do it.
But then even so, it had to be a family, it wouldn't be fair that we just brought animals in that needed rescue.
We kept them all for ourselves, that didn't seem fair either.
So that's why we made the decision to only bring in senior special needs and medically challenged.
(12:32):
It was a little before we made that decision that I got a job with my mentor, my guru, Doug Coward, the wonderful Dr. Doug, who for three years basically taught me all he knew.
I worked in the clinic full-time at the beginning and then gradually it became less and it became more and more part-time until it was no time.
(12:52):
"Sorry, I'm too busy, I can't do it." So it was a gradual journey of learning.
It was a conventional journey.
My upbringing in England with our animals, I wasn't really associated as much as a child with their care but the premise was conventional.
When I got married and we had our own animals, I followed the way of my parents.
(13:13):
It had just never gone beyond that.
Doug talked a little about his desire to start practicing holistic healthcare but with a growing family, he didn't have the time.
But there was a curiosity factor there which in all honesty, it was interesting.
I had my focus on these animals that are coming into my home and how I'm going to be caring for them.
(13:33):
It was all a conventional mindset until the late Vicki Allinson came into my life.
I thought she was completely crazy.
Actually, there's a very interesting, funny story.
Life had got crazy.
I was still working for Doug.
We had a big house with lots of rooms, lots of animals, and I needed help.
So I advertised for someone to come in and at least spend a couple of hours cleaning, caring for the animals, doing the laundry, whatever they could do.
(14:02):
Vicki answered and came in.
I interviewed her.
In all honesty, she probably wasn't the best person suited for the job.
She didn't have that, "I'm going to go and vacuum, I'll wash the floor." She didn't have that sort of energy about her but she was clearly very honest and very loving with the animals, and she badly wanted to work for us.
So she did.
(14:22):
It took two days before I sat her down and said, "This isn't going to work."
And she said, "I agree. I realized that but I really wanted to learn about your life and what you were doing. So I completely understand but can I volunteer?"
I said, "Yes, absolutely. Come back whenever you want to and do whatever you like."
That's where it all began but doing what she wanted to was odd.
(14:44):
For instance, I walked into the kitchen one day and Samantha, a little 20 something year old squash nose beautiful little feline girl was sitting in her basket.
She was half lying on the side of it and Vicki was standing beside her and there was something strange.
I stopped for a moment and looked, and Vicki had her arms like either side of Samantha's bed.
(15:07):
She was as though in her daze and so was Samantha.
I thought, "I have no idea what's going on there." So I ignored it.
Just different things about the way she spoke to the animals and she was with them.
It was also a little bit or quite a lot growing, more and more how the animals behaved with her.
So that was my introduction to the world of energy in one way or many others too but I didn't stop and think about it.
(15:31):
She just seemed soft and gentle and my mind didn't go beyond that then until Jessica.
Jessica was another cat and she was very close to the end of her life and I was at the point where it was time to euthanize her.
That wasn't my way.
I was worried as most pet parents are.
I can see her decline and Vicki said, "Have you thought about perhaps changing diet? It's not only Jessica but I think the others could be healthier."
(15:58):
Of course I was quite affronted, " I know what I'm doing.
I'm feeding the best diet.
I had a huge donation of kibble from a very well known organization and we were doing our very best, the animals don't need any other diet.
It wouldn't be healthy for them to have anything else."
So it was tiptoeing into a few weeks later and she's like, "You've got nothing to lose at this point. Why didn't you just try?"
(16:21):
So wishing she'd "go away", I agreed and little by little that kind of grew.
I think that was at the time that a wonderful woman called Pat McKay came into my life.
She's very well known.
I think she's still practicing now and she has a book called, oh Gosh, "Reigning Cats and Dogs", and very focused on diet and healthcare.
(16:47):
Between Pat and Vicki, I really didn't have any options.
So I thought all the cats and dogs and us as well.
I just didn't see it working and it was very concerning because I knew what I was doing was right.
Then it wasn't because then I suddenly saw and felt a change in the sanctuary.
Old cats, young cats with illness all seemed different.
(17:09):
They all seemed different.
The upsurge in playing with toys suddenly started and old sick cats don't play with toys but suddenly there's Nigel, plump, portly, old orange and white cat who walked but he was like an old man.
You could picture him sitting at the bar with his pipe and his big fat stomach, and there he was running across the floor with a toy mouse.
(17:34):
And grudgingly, I had to admit something was happening— there was energy.
Cats that couldn't jump were now jumping.
The big thing was, until that time, I had dished up food in the kitchen for lots of animals but I didn't have any cats on the countertop.
They couldn't get there.
So I was safe.
I had all my food out and there was not a cat in sight except Samantha who was totally not about to get involved in any of the work.
(18:00):
Suddenly, I had cats jumping onto the countertop.
That said it all.
It's, "Oh my, what in the world?" That was the level of energy that I saw, and that was really scary.
So that's how it all began.
That was the diet.
Karen Wylie (18:13):
What's interesting to me is that you did it all at once.
You weren't just trying it with Jessica to see how it went.
You gave it across the board, and boy, would you see results that way?
Gail Pope (18:27):
Oh my gosh, yes.
I can remember it as though it was yesterday, just seeing and experiencing that surge of energy.
Then I think the next thing was dull, dry, furry coats suddenly weren't dull and dry anymore.
We started seeing the light in the eyes.
We started seeing shine coming into the fur.
(18:49):
The level of energy, God, this woman, and it's, "Oh my gosh, what's she going to do next?"
And it kept on going.
Vicki was instrumental in every aspect of the menu for healing.
She led us piece by piece through every single part.
Karen Wylie (19:05):
Oh my goodness.
Gail Pope (19:06):
And I resisted every single one of them.
Karen Wylie (19:10):
That may be one of the things I appreciated about the manuscript when I read it initially because these days since I've known you you're not resistant to anything.
You're so open to new ideas and seeing the potential and "Yes, let's do that!"
You're always wanting to move forward and try new things.
(19:31):
One of the things that touched me most when I read Gail’s manuscript was realizing how much of the BrightHaven philosophy came directly from the animals themselves.
Over the years, BrightHaven became home to hundreds of animals, more than 700 in all, and each one brought its own lessons.
(19:51):
If we slow down, observe and truly listen, our animals often show us exactly what they need.
In our next episode, we'll continue this conversation and talk about how some of those experiences begin to change Gail's thinking about healing and care.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(20:14):
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(20:45):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here as always with Gale Pope.
Today is going to be a little different.
We're not going to be focusing on one hospice topic or caregiver topic.
Today we're going to be talking about the release of the "BrightHaven Way (01:06):
Lessons from 700 animal teachers" and this manuscript has an interesting history.
So before we talk about what's in the book, I'd like to share a little bit about how it actually came into being.
Gail last fall you sent me a PDF among several PDFs.
(01:29):
This one was dated 2019 and I'd seen versions of the "Menu for Healing".
Over time, we've talked about it here on the podcast so I knew the structure of it and the parts of it but this document was different.
It wasn't just what the Menu was— it was how it developed, how it evolved at BrightHaven.
(01:51):
What you wrote was personal and reflective and almost certainly in part a memoir of the development of how you did everything at BrightHaven.
Do you remember when you first started writing that manuscript?
Gail Pope (02:05):
Oh, not entirely.
I started writing it after the sanctuary moved from Southern California to Northern California and then after we settled in and life had started to become more about education.
I guess it was around about that time that I started realizing that we developed a pattern.
(02:25):
We had certain ways of doing things like writing the animals files, doing medication, creating all the different forms.
The people we worked with and the way we thought or the way I thought that I'd learned to think.
So putting it all down on paper, "Wow, this is it! It's the way we do things at BrightHaven."
I think it must have been around the time that I actually started doing consultations.
(02:50):
Perhaps how it came up, "How do you do that at BrightHaven?"
It made my mind start clicking into, "Ooh, that's interesting." Because we actually do have a method for every single little piece that we do with our animals.
Whether it's veterinary care, feeding, all sorts of care, whether it's self-care— all of it all fits in.
(03:11):
That became the menu.
Karen Wylie (03:12):
Wow!
It was wonderful for me to be reading that draft because, as I said, I was familiar with the menu for healing and the parts of it.
When I first read that PDF, I realized it was something important because it told your story behind the philosophy.
Gail Pope (03:30):
It wasn't meant to be about the menu.
In all honesty, it was about my journey.
It was something that I thought, "I'll start writing this now. It could be a book at some time later on in my life."
I never even finished.
In fact, I should share with everyone that I had completely forgotten about that until you surprised me by picking it up.
(03:52):
Then what, a week ago, 10 days ago you said, "Hey, look what I've done with what you wrote."
Oh God, how embarrassing.
Karen Wylie (04:01):
Surprise!
Gail Pope (04:02):
It was a surprise.
But I really enjoyed what I wrote back then.
I would take myself off into my little office every now and again if I could each day.
It wasn't always each day, even for just half an hour, and I'd refresh my memory for what I'd written about and think then the next thought would come.
So I'd write a little bit and then I'd just get back to the day.
(04:24):
So it just gradually grew and morphed into the journey to get us to where we were.
Karen Wylie (04:30):
I think that's really what struck me and what I loved about it is it wasn't just the components.
It was the evolution of you, of your thinking and your feeling, and what you were experiencing and seeing with your animal teachers and learning from that.
Gail Pope (04:45):
That really underscores the whole thing because I could write a million stories about the animals that came.
Funnily enough, in the last week I visited some of the obituaries or stories that I'd written about animals 20 or 30 years ago and sat and sobbed my heart out because I hadn't actually at this point gone back in my mind and remembered each one taught something and they were all lessons about love and life and living in the moment and "being"— everything.
(05:16):
They were so clear and honest in the way that they lived that taught me how I wanted to live.
Then seeing animals with chronic or terminal illness or disability and seeing how they lived their lives so darned joyfully.
That's what struck other people so much.
They'd come and feel sorry and, "Oh my goodness.
Oh, hold on a minute.
(05:37):
Why is he chasing that toy?" Or "What's going on here?
This is really weird.
Are they all on drugs or what?"
It just created a certain balance (05:46):
for healing of body, mind, and spirit.
And spirit was where the animals really shone.
It really underscored for us that we got something here.
It works.
It may not be for everyone but certainly for us, for our lifestyle, for these animals, they couldn't be happier or healthier with the situation that they were in with their medical issues.
Karen Wylie (06:11):
I think any time I have seen the photographs of Joey and is it Ollie?
The two of them with their little wheel carts and they were just so joyful and loving every moment of their life with you.
Gail Pope (06:26):
Exactly!
But I do know that in that photograph, Ollie was approaching probably his 23rd or 24th year.
Karen Wylie (06:33):
Oh my goodness.
Gail Pope (06:34):
And he doesn't look like a 24-year-old dog or even if it was maybe a year or two before that, he doesn't look like he's in his twenties.
Karen Wylie (06:42):
No.
Gail Pope (06:42):
There's the young Joey and the old Ollie and you can see there's a difference.
Karen Wylie (06:46):
There's a difference.
Gail Pope (06:47):
But there's a spark in those eyes.
They both got it.
Karen Wylie (06:50):
Exactly.
When you look at that photo which we're including in the book because it's just one of my favorites, your favorites.
When you look at them, you don't see disability or different ability.
You only see those faces— it's just joy.
It's pure joy.
That's just so essential to everything that we do ourselves for our animals because we're trying to preserve the joy that they have in their lives day to day too.
(07:15):
So that's probably at least one of the reasons why it so appeals to me.
In finishing this book we gathered together some of your earlier writings to make sure that the chapters reflected the full arc of your thinking.
Because as you're saying your thinking evolved over the years from at one point being very conventional in your care of pets to begin seeing things differently and then sharing how and why your thinking changed.
(07:44):
So when we say the BrightHaven way, what does that actually mean?
What do you think people are going to get from the BrightHaven way?
Gail Pope (07:52):
Oh, I don't know.
I guess each person will read it— the actual Menu, if you like.
I think if I was reading it and I didn't know me, I was just new to it, I'd be thinking about my own life, my own animals and what Bright Haven has developed— how it resonated.
Maybe it didn't, some people will follow parts of it but to me that's the beauty because it's evolved into a menu and you don't have to pick all of it out.
(08:20):
You can pick one bit and say, "As far as the diet goes, they obviously had an amazing result with that.
And I'm like Gail, she was very resistant at the beginning.
There's no way she was going to do this crazy thing that would kill all our animals.
But now I'm looking at what happened.
Maybe I should think about this.
Maybe it's something that I should consider for my cat and dog, maybe not."
(08:42):
I don't know.
I think everybody approaches the things we read differently and sometimes we get a spark of interest on one topic or another and we explore.
So I guess, I'm still reeling from the shock of this kind of thing going public but I think I'm just at this point hoping that one little piece here or there will excite the reader and like me, open their eyes a little to something that they're not used to.
Karen Wylie (09:09):
There's so many parts of the philosophy and people can pick and choose.
It's not like a program that you have to implement all the pieces for it to work.
It's not that kind of thing.
I think people will read it and as you're saying be prompted to consider what parts of it might work for them that they might be interested in trying.
(09:31):
Of course, the "Menu for Healing" is something we have talked about on the podcast and has been a part of the BrightHaven website for a very long time too.
It's often referred to as the "Love Sandwich", which is a very practical metaphor.
How did that come about to call it the "Love Sandwich"?
Gail Pope (09:47):
I don't know.
I can't remember.
We've called it the "Love Sandwich" for an awful long time, and I can't remember exactly when that appeared.
Probably in a delightful conversation maybe with Carol and we just talked about it.
I think that's probably how it did happen in conversation.
It begins with love and it has to end with love.
(10:08):
Oh, it's like a love sandwich.
It's obvious but exactly when that happened, it was a long time ago, and we've called it that for years.
Karen Wylie (10:15):
For a long time.
It's just a wonderful wonderful metaphor to think of it that way and because of it then when I think of all the other components of it.
I think of them as layers in the sandwich.
Gail Pope (10:27):
Yes, exactly.
It just makes sense.
Karen Wylie (10:30):
That's right.
You can make a lot of different sandwiches using lots of different layers or maybe you don't have this layer.
It's lots of individuality that can be.
Gail Pope (10:37):
Let's face it, it's more fun than having a "toolbox".
Karen Wylie (10:42):
Definitely.
One of the things that you've been very open with everyone about when we talk about this, is that you didn't start out being holistic in all of your approaches.
You were very conventional at the very beginning.
So can you share what it was like to slowly shift your thinking, especially around diet?
Gail Pope (11:03):
Let's see.
We came from England.
I was 40 years old and I had no idea what I was going to do with the rest of my life.
Obviously my husband had been transferred.
Richard was transferred by his company, so he obviously had a job here.
I was in a situation where I wasn't at liberty to work.
I didn't have a work permit at that point, so I had more time and I had no idea what I was going to do.
(11:27):
So when we baby stepped into the field of animal care, it was a divine intervention.
I had never planned other than when I was five years old to really get involved with animals.
Particularly long story and a lot of synchronicities involved.
Then I decided that I want to start an animal rescue group that was "Cats are People Too".
(11:50):
So we did that for almost two years and got very well used to it.
Of course, I could not get well used to the adoption process because you know what it's like for most of us.
You lose your heart to this someone who comes to you for help.
Karen Wylie (12:04):
You were a failed foster just like the rest of us.
Gail Pope (12:07):
Both Richard and I became a failed foster very quickly and realized that unless we became a humongously big family, we couldn't do it.
But then even so, it had to be a family, it wouldn't be fair that we just brought animals in that needed rescue.
We kept them all for ourselves, that didn't seem fair either.
So that's why we made the decision to only bring in senior special needs and medically challenged.
(12:32):
It was a little before we made that decision that I got a job with my mentor, my guru, Doug Coward, the wonderful Dr. Doug, who for three years basically taught me all he knew.
I worked in the clinic full-time at the beginning and then gradually it became less and it became more and more part-time until it was no time.
(12:52):
"Sorry, I'm too busy, I can't do it." So it was a gradual journey of learning.
It was a conventional journey.
My upbringing in England with our animals, I wasn't really associated as much as a child with their care but the premise was conventional.
When I got married and we had our own animals, I followed the way of my parents.
(13:13):
It had just never gone beyond that.
Doug talked a little about his desire to start practicing holistic healthcare but with a growing family, he didn't have the time.
But there was a curiosity factor there which in all honesty, it was interesting.
I had my focus on these animals that are coming into my home and how I'm going to be caring for them.
(13:33):
It was all a conventional mindset until the late Vicki Allinson came into my life.
I thought she was completely crazy.
Actually, there's a very interesting, funny story.
Life had got crazy.
I was still working for Doug.
We had a big house with lots of rooms, lots of animals, and I needed help.
So I advertised for someone to come in and at least spend a couple of hours cleaning, caring for the animals, doing the laundry, whatever they could do.
(14:02):
Vicki answered and came in.
I interviewed her.
In all honesty, she probably wasn't the best person suited for the job.
She didn't have that, "I'm going to go and vacuum, I'll wash the floor." She didn't have that sort of energy about her but she was clearly very honest and very loving with the animals, and she badly wanted to work for us.
So she did.
(14:22):
It took two days before I sat her down and said, "This isn't going to work."
And she said, "I agree. I realized that but I really wanted to learn about your life and what you were doing. So I completely understand but can I volunteer?"
I said, "Yes, absolutely. Come back whenever you want to and do whatever you like."
That's where it all began but doing what she wanted to was odd.
(14:44):
For instance, I walked into the kitchen one day and Samantha, a little 20 something year old squash nose beautiful little feline girl was sitting in her basket.
She was half lying on the side of it and Vicki was standing beside her and there was something strange.
I stopped for a moment and looked, and Vicki had her arms like either side of Samantha's bed.
(15:07):
She was as though in her daze and so was Samantha.
I thought, "I have no idea what's going on there." So I ignored it.
Just different things about the way she spoke to the animals and she was with them.
It was also a little bit or quite a lot growing, more and more how the animals behaved with her.
So that was my introduction to the world of energy in one way or many others too but I didn't stop and think about it.
(15:31):
She just seemed soft and gentle and my mind didn't go beyond that then until Jessica.
Jessica was another cat and she was very close to the end of her life and I was at the point where it was time to euthanize her.
That wasn't my way.
I was worried as most pet parents are.
I can see her decline and Vicki said, "Have you thought about perhaps changing diet? It's not only Jessica but I think the others could be healthier."
(15:58):
Of course I was quite affronted, " I know what I'm doing.
I'm feeding the best diet.
I had a huge donation of kibble from a very well known organization and we were doing our very best, the animals don't need any other diet.
It wouldn't be healthy for them to have anything else."
So it was tiptoeing into a few weeks later and she's like, "You've got nothing to lose at this point. Why didn't you just try?"
(16:21):
So wishing she'd "go away", I agreed and little by little that kind of grew.
I think that was at the time that a wonderful woman called Pat McKay came into my life.
She's very well known.
I think she's still practicing now and she has a book called, oh Gosh, "Reigning Cats and Dogs", and very focused on diet and healthcare.
(16:47):
Between Pat and Vicki, I really didn't have any options.
So I thought all the cats and dogs and us as well.
I just didn't see it working and it was very concerning because I knew what I was doing was right.
Then it wasn't because then I suddenly saw and felt a change in the sanctuary.
Old cats, young cats with illness all seemed different.
(17:09):
They all seemed different.
The upsurge in playing with toys suddenly started and old sick cats don't play with toys but suddenly there's Nigel, plump, portly, old orange and white cat who walked but he was like an old man.
You could picture him sitting at the bar with his pipe and his big fat stomach, and there he was running across the floor with a toy mouse.
(17:34):
And grudgingly, I had to admit something was happening— there was energy.
Cats that couldn't jump were now jumping.
The big thing was, until that time, I had dished up food in the kitchen for lots of animals but I didn't have any cats on the countertop.
They couldn't get there.
So I was safe.
I had all my food out and there was not a cat in sight except Samantha who was totally not about to get involved in any of the work.
(18:00):
Suddenly, I had cats jumping onto the countertop.
That said it all.
It's, "Oh my, what in the world?" That was the level of energy that I saw, and that was really scary.
So that's how it all began.
That was the diet.
Karen Wylie (18:13):
What's interesting to me is that you did it all at once.
You weren't just trying it with Jessica to see how it went.
You gave it across the board, and boy, would you see results that way?
Gail Pope (18:27):
Oh my gosh, yes.
I can remember it as though it was yesterday, just seeing and experiencing that surge of energy.
Then I think the next thing was dull, dry, furry coats suddenly weren't dull and dry anymore.
We started seeing the light in the eyes.
We started seeing shine coming into the fur.
(18:49):
The level of energy, God, this woman, and it's, "Oh my gosh, what's she going to do next?"
And it kept on going.
Vicki was instrumental in every aspect of the menu for healing.
She led us piece by piece through every single part.
Karen Wylie (19:05):
Oh my goodness.
Gail Pope (19:06):
And I resisted every single one of them.
Karen Wylie (19:10):
That may be one of the things I appreciated about the manuscript when I read it initially because these days since I've known you you're not resistant to anything.
You're so open to new ideas and seeing the potential and "Yes, let's do that!"
You're always wanting to move forward and try new things.
(19:31):
One of the things that touched me most when I read Gail’s manuscript was realizing how much of the BrightHaven philosophy came directly from the animals themselves.
Over the years, BrightHaven became home to hundreds of animals, more than 700 in all, and each one brought its own lessons.
(19:51):
If we slow down, observe and truly listen, our animals often show us exactly what they need.
In our next episode, we'll continue this conversation and talk about how some of those experiences begin to change Gail's thinking about healing and care.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(20:14):
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(20:45):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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