July 2, 2026 • 25 mins
Why is euthanasia the automatic response to a terminal diagnosis — even when it isn't actually serving the pet, the pet parent, or the veterinarian performing the procedure? In this episode, Karen Wylie, EdD, and Gail Pope open up a conversation they've wanted to have for a long time: how euthanasia became the default, and what it's costing all three parties involved.
This is not an argument against euthanasia. Karen and Gail are clear from the start: when a pet is in genuine pain or suffering, euthanasia can be one of the most loving choices a family can make. But they've also both witnessed families walk away from that decision carrying guilt, regret, and the nagging feeling that something wasn't right — that it was too soon, or handled on the wrong day, for the wrong reasons.
Gail traces the roots of the problem back to a culture that has grown increasingly afraid of death — for humans first, and then, by extension, for our pets. Karen shares a striking comparison: while 92–99% of human deaths in the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK are attributed to natural causes, and medical aid in dying accounts for less than 1% of human deaths, roughly 90% of companion animals are euthanized. Given how biologically similar we are to our pets, the two ask: why such a dramatic difference?
The conversation moves through some of the marketing language used to make euthanasia decisions feel easier — phrases like "better a day too early than a day too late" — and how that language can quietly remove the animal's own experience from the decision. Karen and Gail talk about why most people, and most veterinarians, have never actually witnessed a natural death, and how that lack of exposure feeds fear on all sides.
They also explore what changes when a pet is allowed to lead its own transition: how grief looks different, how it can become less entangled with guilt and regret, and how supporting an animal through natural decline — whether from illness or simple old age — can offer families the chance to say everything they needed to say, in their own time.
This episode focuses closely on how the current system affects pets and pet parents. The third piece of this picture — how it affects veterinarians themselves — is a conversation Karen and Gail will pick up directly in an upcoming 30-minute webinar on natural death as an option, exploring why this choice is so rarely discussed between veterinarians and the families they serve. Details on that webinar will be shared soon.
If today's conversation stirs something in you — a past decision, a decision you're facing now, or one you sense may be coming — Karen and Gail invite you to sit with it not with guilt, but with curiosity about what might be possible. Natural death isn't the right path for every pet or every family. But it is a real, supported path, and it deserves a place in every conversation that begins with a serious diagnosis.💜
📌 Related Resource:
- 🔗 Animal Hospice Group (animalhospicegroup.com) — professional certification organization in animal hospice and palliative care
- 📖 Soul-Centered Care: Seeing Pet Death Differently A BrightPath TRANSITION Series Booklet - https://brightpathforpets.com/soul-centered-care-booklet/
- 📖 Nourishing Through Illness: Supporting Appetite, Comfort, and Care for Pets with Life-Changing Diagnoses - brightpathforpets.com/nourishing-through-illness
- 📖 The Pet Legacy & Lifetime Care Planning Workbook - brightpathforpets.com/pet-future-care-planning-workbook
- 📖 The BrightHaven Way: Lessons from 700 Animal Teachers PDF: https://brightpathforpets.com/brighthaven-way-book/
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📖 Download the PEACEFUL Quality of Dying Guide: Signs of a Peaceful Passing at: https://brightpathforpets.com/resources-html/
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📖 Walking The BrightPath: A Pet Parent’s Guide To Home Hospice And Natural Transition - https://brightpathforpets.com/blog/pet-hospice-guide
🌹 Join our monthly Rose Ceremony (free online pet celebration): https://brightpathforpets.com/rose-ceremony/
💬 If this episode touched your heart, you’re not alone. The BrightHaven Caregivers’ Hub is our supportive membership community for pet parents na
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here as always with my wonderful partner Gail Pope.
Today is a conversation that we've wanted to have for a while and I think it's certainly among the most important ones that we talk about.
Because at the heart of it is the question (01:08):
Why is euthanasia the default response to a terminal diagnosis in a pet when evidence suggests it's not really working well for any of the parties involved?
Not the pet parent, the family, and this might surprise some of you but it's not even working for many of the veterinarians who are performing the procedure.
(01:32):
First thing to say is that Gail and I are not here today to argue against euthanasia.
We've said many times that euthanasia, when it's called for, is one of the most loving things a family can do for a pet who is in genuine pain or suffering.
So just want to say that at the top because we do support that choice fully and support the families who choose it.
But we've also both watched families walk away from a euthanasia procedure carrying something very heavy emotionally (01:54):
guilt, regret, the nagging feeling that something wasn't right, the feeling that it was too soon.
So we've started asking why, and why does this keep happening when the system that we're all operating inside doesn't seem to be really working for all of us?
(02:20):
So that's where we are on that topic.
To understand why euthanasia is the default, we probably have to go back to the beginning to how it became the default in the first place because it wasn't always this way.
I don't think it happened because anyone made a deliberate decision that euthanasia was always the best choice for all animals and all families.
(02:42):
I think it happened much more gradually than that.
Gail you've been a part of this animal hospice and terminal diagnosis and end of life care for 36 years now— so just a little bit of experience.
From where you sit, how did we get to where we are now?
How did euthanasia go from being one of the options to essentially being the only conversation that is had with pet parents?
Gail Pope (03:07):
You do love to start with the most difficult questions, don't you?
Wow!
I think there are all sorts of answers probably to that question.
The first one that comes up to me particularly is I think over a long period of time, our culture has become more increasingly scared of Death which was and is normal.
(03:30):
It happens to all of us.
It's not something any of us can avoid but I think people are living longer due to modern medicine and who knows what else.
But people are living longer, and the fear of what happens at the end of that life, I guess it's partly modern medicine wants to fix everything so that we do get longer and longer and longer and with that has grown this fear that it might end.
(03:54):
"Oh my God, when's it going to end, and how will that happen?"
So I think it’s come from the human side first and grown within us.
As our animals get older, obviously we're much, much older but as they get older, they're not going to live as long.
Then we're left with this dilemma that here we see an old being and that scares us.
Modern medicine has developed such a way that I guess euthanasia has become the first thought rather than, "I have a choice and what can I do to help?"
(04:24):
I think perhaps modern medicine is more about fixing what we see.
So euthanasia has been part of, I don't know, part of that fixing process.
But it has become more normal than allowing an animal to reach a natural conclusion to end of life, supported fully.
Obviously, I'm not talking about just letting them die.
(04:45):
Does that begin to open the conversation?
Karen Wylie (04:47):
Yes, I think it does because it hasn't always been the situation.
Of course, as one of the statistics I found a few months ago that I'm still very fixed on is looking at how humans die.
When you look at the state reports from the 50 US states but also Canada, Australia, and the UK— humans die from natural causes.
(05:13):
92 to 99% of them are categorized as dying from natural causes.
It could be from a particular cancer that is the ultimate thing that causes the death but that happens over a period of time.
Maybe they need morphine at the end a little bit but basically they're dying on their own time.
Medical aid in dying, MAID (M-A-I-D), human euthanasia accounts for less than 1% of human deaths and yet with companion animals, 90% of them are euthanized.
(05:44):
Basically our companion animals are mammals just like we are.
Our biology is pretty darn similar.
Why is it so dramatically different for our animals than for ourselves?
If it's not cruel and unusual and pain and suffering for humans to die naturally, why do we suddenly bring in all the issues about pain and suffering when it comes to our pets?
Gail Pope (06:05):
I think, as you say, it's a small part but it's growing, the talk about euthanasia for humans.
It's not necessarily called euthanasia directly but I think there's more and more interest in how to help the life end in the human field.
So that possibly contributes too.
(06:25):
I just find it such a shame that we can't work towards being open about these topics and realizing that it is a choice.
They need to be brought into the conversation.
Some animals make it very clear they do or don't want to be euthanized.
Others make it very clear that they can't tolerate a natural passing.
(06:45):
So there are so many different avenues to look at in this conversation.
Karen Wylie (06:50):
Yes and each situation, it's what's right for that particular animal and that particular family and the overall circumstances and situation.
But it doesn't seem that the euthanasia procedure is approached in that individual way.
It's approached as a medical procedure.
When treatment fails, when there's no other treatment available, then everything jumps to, to euthanasia as I guess the solution which brings us back to what you were saying when we started off about the need to fix.
Gail Pope (07:23):
I just thought of something else, and of course, this takes me way back into BrightHaven history over the years— which is that the one time, I guess it's not one time, because it would happen quite often.
If a family or a single parent are unable to take care of an animal who's reaching the end of life for whatever reason, it could be sickness, it could be their job, they travel, they simply can't give the care that's needed to the animal.
(07:48):
That's what BrightHaven was all about.
Many of the animals came to us because either their owner loved the work we did and couldn't cope or their business caused them to travel and they simply couldn't care for the animal properly.
Or there were so many reasons but they didn't want to euthanize.
So I think if there were more places that actually would be able to help, offer help to people— if you think about it, that's what we're doing with the animal hospice group.
(08:16):
As we certify more and more people to be able to help people to help their animals during the last chapter of life, we're not talking about death, we're talking about living through that last chapter which is when the euthanasia verdict is very often given.
So it's all about caring and helping each other as well as the animal.
Karen Wylie (08:35):
And that's going back to the individual animal, I find it, trying to find the right word here because it's a whole lot more than disappointing to me and saying it's worrisome doesn't really cover it.
But I find the marketing slogans that have been used to help pet parents feel better about the euthanasia decision to really not consider the pet almost at all— even though those who created these slogans might feel they were also protecting the pet.
(09:04):
When we look at the phrasing of these marketing slogans "It's better to euthanize on a good day than a bad day," "Better a day too early than a day too late," it's all in essence trying to say it's better to euthanize before pain and suffering are actually happening.
And yet none of us, even the closest relationship I've ever had with my animals, I would not be able to predict exactly when they're going to die and veterinarians can't do that either.
(09:33):
Unless the animal is on the exam table and they say, "Hey, this is something we've got to deal with right now."
But those marketing slogans comfort so many pet parents.
So they make decisions to euthanize while animals are frolicking at the beach, running in the backyard, gobbling down multiple Big Macs, enjoying their Pup Cups, and then they've got a 3:00 appointment.
(09:56):
Yet the pet parent is understanding that they're good to do this because if they don't, there's going to be pain and suffering and they got to do it now to avoid being a bad pet parent later.
Gail Pope (10:07):
That takes us straight back to education.
If there was more education so people weren't so scared of what the dying process actually means— what it involves.
Because it's the same process whether you're, again, on two legs or four legs.
So the amount of education that is lacking is huge for people and for animals.
As a culture, we wouldn't be so scared of death and dying if we really understood more about it.
(10:32):
Of course, the spiritual aspect creeps in a little bit for some of us.
If people have a spiritual view of transition and what that means, then it can be very helpful.
And again, I think if you do believe that death isn't a brick wall that we run into then then tippy-toeing into that conversation can be terribly beneficial.
(10:53):
I think that's what brings an awful lot of people to me for consultations because they know their animal's approaching the end of life.
They may have been given a terminal diagnosis and then told, "Take him home", but you're going to have to make that decision.
It's close on time.
And they come to me.
"What could I do?
Do you think I should euthanize him now?" Of course there is the odd occasion where the answer would be, "We've talked it through and in your situation, I think it would be the most sensible decision.
(11:20):
You don't have a way out." However, for most it's, "Let's look at the question of "Is it time?"" "Is it time for what?"
When your dog's sitting in front of you, getting close to the end of his life, and he's wagging his tail and waiting for a treat, is it time for another treat?
Karen Wylie (11:35):
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (11:37):
It's just like the human way of ending a life.
It's slowly and surely and it's a process.
And yes, as in the human field too, there are myths.
We know that dying, the process of dying itself, is not painful.
But then we also know that disease, the out of balance situation in the body, can be painful.
(11:58):
And yes, if you didn't treat that early on, you would be remiss because that really is the most essential part in life for us all.
We don't want to live life, at any stage of it, dealing with extreme pain.
So if pain is treated in a chronic illness, then that pain would obviously be treated to its conclusion.
But the actual process of dying was created by Mother Nature, if you like, and it is a process that was designed for us as humans and as animals.
(12:29):
Mother Nature is fully capable of dealing with it.
It's us that aren't.
Karen Wylie (12:33):
Right, exactly.
Just as when we're coming into this world, this life, birth is usually by natural means.
Unless the life and health of the mother and/or the baby is at stake, in which case a cesarean is an intervention.
But when we look at end of life, suddenly we're flipping it and we're always intervening in the death process.
(12:55):
Yet with humans we are not doing that but with our pets, we are.
I think as you were saying when you started out here, people don't know what the dying process looks like.
Gail Pope (13:06):
No.
Karen Wylie (13:07):
And so they then can build up a lot of fear about it.
And if truth is told, most vets have never seen what a natural death looks like either.
It's generally not something they're exposed to in vet school or shown what a natural death looks like and how to support that process over time if pain occurs.
(13:28):
So that seems to be quite a mystery for people and a fear of it is also what pushes them back to the euthanasia procedure because you schedule the day and the time and the uncertainty.
At least the uncertainty of when the time is over but then there's all the regrets.
Gail Pope (13:47):
Yes, I don't think there's any one of us that could ever say that we look back after a particular euthanasia perhaps.
It sits in your heart for a long time knowing that maybe it was the wrong choice.
I know I can look back and say, "Oh my God, I can't believe I did that." But that was in the past and I didn't know any better because I was never educated.
(14:07):
I think starting in schools, we actually are opening the conversation up in schools about birthing.
I think we could do it at the other end of life too.
Karen Wylie (14:16):
I think we definitely could too.
Of course that is one of the reasons why this conversation was one we thought we could have today because we're working on some resources about natural death for more people to learn about it.
So that they at least can decide whether it's the right option for them, their family, and their pet.
One thing that always puzzles me, though about the death of our animals and coping with it, is so many animals are declining due to old age.
(14:45):
There's nothing really wrong with them but maybe it's a 15 or 18-year-old dog or a 20 or 25-year-old cat, literally old age and all their organs are not working quite as efficiently as they did.
Now, in my experience, and I think in yours too, we've had many animals die of old age naturally and not need a euthanasia procedure.
(15:07):
So that's I guess one very specific area that I don't understand why because when they're dying naturally of old age, they're just sleeping more.
They stop eating.
They're not drinking very much.
They're not responding as much.
Maybe a couple minutes, every 30 minutes or something where they want to attend to their mom or their dad but they're basically losing energy.
(15:29):
They're dying.
When that happens, people rush them to be euthanized.
I guess that's the kind of situation I'd like our educational efforts to help with because it can be a very peaceful end for everyone.
Gail Pope (15:42):
You've just taken the conversation right back to where we started to the word "Fear" because, you know, a natural passing such as you described is so beautiful.
Karen Wylie (15:52):
Yes.
Gail Pope (15:53):
It takes you to another place.
It really is beautiful and it seems strange to talk about the process of dying as being beautiful because of the fear, because of the misunderstandings and the this, that, and the other.
But it is very beautiful experience after which grief is very different.
Grief is very different because most often I've found anyway that I've grieved with my animal before they've died.
(16:18):
There's been a beautiful sense of togetherness as we've worked through the process together.
Then when they die, it's a time to honor the life that you've shared together rather than grieving them gone.
To realize that you've had this precious time and you've used every single minute of it for the benefit of your relationship which doesn't end when they're gone.
(16:40):
They've left their human house or their— sorry, not their human house.
Maybe that too but—
Karen Wylie (16:45):
Sometimes we wonder about that, right?
Gail Pope (16:47):
They've left their animal house, their body.
But to me, they still live on, whether it be in my heart, my memory, depending on what you believe.
That's the time to be with them still but just in a very different way.
And that can be such a treasure and such a comfort as you honor and celebrate the time you've spent together.
Karen Wylie (17:06):
Yes, you can grieve and will grieve still because you love them so much.
You're going to miss every moment with them but you don't have all that extra guilt or regret in that you've made a decision, "Oh, I made the wrong decision. I did it too late. I did it too early." Instead, your pet is determining its transition in its own time and that changes the experience of grief considerably.
Gail Pope (17:31):
It does.
I was just sitting here trying to think about at some of the beings behind me here.
Oh, just caught Ziggy there.
Karen Wylie (17:40):
In the reflection.
Gail Pope (17:42):
This side.
Karen Wylie (17:43):
Yes, there he is.
There he is.
Gail Pope (17:44):
And when you grieve after you've been through, I don't know how to describe it, you've been through an end of life journey together and you're still moving on through that journey but they're not with you.
When you think about them, there is still that mixed— it's different.
There's still that feeling in your heart of grief but it isn't grief.
(18:06):
It's love.
It's done a little bit of a transition because they mean so much to you but grief is a bit negative but there's this warm, joyous feeling that is wrapped up.
Obviously, there's grief.
There's sadness.
"Oh, my gosh, why can't he be here with me now? I can still almost feel his fur." There's that.
That's not going to go away but that's also precious, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (18:26):
It's very precious.
If you have had the opportunity to support them through old age, through their decline, you've had signs along the way that they are declining.
So helping you begin to get a handle on the fact that at some point you're going to be without them and that's happening a little bit each time.
When they can't reach the highest shelf on the cat tree, you notice.
(18:49):
When they can't go as long in the walk in the neighborhood, you notice.
Those are things you grieve about, too.
They're little bits at a time.
Gail Pope (18:57):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (18:58):
But you also, just as we do with humans where we want to be able to say we said everything we needed to say to each other before they died, you have that opportunity with your pets as they decline over time and die naturally of old age.
Gail Pope (19:13):
Just think about that.
Yes, that's perfect and it's as things should be.
But I wonder how many human families talk to their elders and vice versa about when they'll no longer be there, what they will do, and all the different thoughts about when you're gone, how will I feel, what will I do, from both sides.
We avoid it for the most part.
Karen Wylie (19:33):
It's another area we avoid, because—
Gail Pope (19:36):
It's planning.
Karen Wylie (19:37):
No one wants to deal with death.
It's unpleasant to think about being without someone or some being that we love.
So you're right.
It's even— what's the current number of days that someone is in hospice?
I think the current rate is six days.
It's largely because either the person who's dying doesn't want to admit they're dying, so they don't want to be admitted to hospice, or family members don't want to admit that the family member's dying.
(20:03):
Hospice means "death" so we're just not going to go there.
So I think you're right.
We have a lot of work to do when it comes to how we cope with death from other humans we love as well as our pets.
I think with our pets, their lifespans are so much shorter than ours that we experience, we go through this many times in our lives if we love our animals.
(20:24):
It's up to us to make the decisions and that's an overwhelming responsibility that at least if we're supporting a loved human, hopefully they can tell us their preferences.
But once again, as you're saying, do they have the discussion of what they want or don't want?
Gail Pope (20:42):
No I know I harp on this an awful lot, but have to say it again, there are so many wonderful books out there to read about human end of life and experiences that hospice workers, hospice practitioners have had with their patients and the lessons that they've learned as well as the families that they're serving.
And for me, with BrightHaven, if I hadn't had the last however many decades of experience with senior special needs, disabled, old, older— I wouldn't be where I am now.
(21:14):
They taught me.
I was lucky to have all those teachers.
It was such a blessing.
Didn't seem like it in the beginning when it started to really evolve.
It was very nerve-wracking and I had a lot to learn.
But once we open and start learning It changes us completely.
I don't think you'll ever take the fear away but as humans, we have so many odd little things we fear.
(21:36):
It's not only dying.
We fear all sorts of other things.
So I don't think that's ever going to be completely gone but the more you learn, the more you understand, it lessens the fear.
Karen Wylie (21:47):
Yes which is just one of the many reasons that we circle back to talk about these topics in new ways at various times.
Because it's something we all need to deal with, will have to deal with in some way, whether it's humans or our pets.
Gail Pope (22:02):
Oh, yes.
Karen Wylie (22:03):
But when we're the decision makers for our pets then it becomes truly imperative for us to have a good understanding of ourselves and what we're comfortable with and what we want for our pets.
Gail Pope (22:15):
Definitely.
Karen Wylie (22:17):
If today's conversation has stirred something in you maybe you found yourself thinking about a choice you made in the past or a choice you are currently facing or that you think might be happening down the road, we want you to to sit with that not with guilt or regret but just with curiosity about what might be possible.
Neither Gail nor I would say that natural death is the right thing for every pet, for every situation.
(22:41):
We started out saying that.
We've said it throughout but it is a real path.
It is a supported path and it deserves to be part of every conversation that happens when a family learns their pet is seriously ill.
So Gail and I are going to continue to have this conversation and because we believe it's one of the most important ones we can have when we talk about comfort care for our pets or animal hospice care for our pets.
(23:05):
So stay close.
More is coming.
We're developing some new resources for you.
Anything you would like to end today with, Gail?
Gail Pope (23:12):
Let's see which one, I've got so many little sayings.
Karen Wylie (23:16):
Oh.
That you do.
Gail Pope (23:18):
What saying?
I guess baby steps is the one that comes to me now because taking baby steps and again with love, they fit together in this conversation.
You can't learn everything all in one go.
One transition can open your mind and heart and help you to realize there's an awful lot to learn.
Not only about death and transition but transition coming into this world too and putting it all together as one enormous miracle.
(23:47):
It's a miracle of life.
So yes, just taking baby steps, reading, learning, talking to others, just opening and continuing that conversation.
Karen Wylie (23:56):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
And thank you for being with us here today.
Thank you for caring enough about your pet to ask the hard questions that aren't usually easy to ask.
We thank you for trusting us enough to ask them with you.
Thank you for being with us today and hope to see you next week.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (24:15):
Goodbye.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(24:51):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here as always with my wonderful partner Gail Pope.
Today is a conversation that we've wanted to have for a while and I think it's certainly among the most important ones that we talk about.
Because at the heart of it is the question (01:08):
Why is euthanasia the default response to a terminal diagnosis in a pet when evidence suggests it's not really working well for any of the parties involved?
Not the pet parent, the family, and this might surprise some of you but it's not even working for many of the veterinarians who are performing the procedure.
(01:32):
First thing to say is that Gail and I are not here today to argue against euthanasia.
We've said many times that euthanasia, when it's called for, is one of the most loving things a family can do for a pet who is in genuine pain or suffering.
So just want to say that at the top because we do support that choice fully and support the families who choose it.
But we've also both watched families walk away from a euthanasia procedure carrying something very heavy emotionally (01:54):
guilt, regret, the nagging feeling that something wasn't right, the feeling that it was too soon.
So we've started asking why, and why does this keep happening when the system that we're all operating inside doesn't seem to be really working for all of us?
(02:20):
So that's where we are on that topic.
To understand why euthanasia is the default, we probably have to go back to the beginning to how it became the default in the first place because it wasn't always this way.
I don't think it happened because anyone made a deliberate decision that euthanasia was always the best choice for all animals and all families.
(02:42):
I think it happened much more gradually than that.
Gail you've been a part of this animal hospice and terminal diagnosis and end of life care for 36 years now— so just a little bit of experience.
From where you sit, how did we get to where we are now?
How did euthanasia go from being one of the options to essentially being the only conversation that is had with pet parents?
Gail Pope (03:07):
You do love to start with the most difficult questions, don't you?
Wow!
I think there are all sorts of answers probably to that question.
The first one that comes up to me particularly is I think over a long period of time, our culture has become more increasingly scared of Death which was and is normal.
(03:30):
It happens to all of us.
It's not something any of us can avoid but I think people are living longer due to modern medicine and who knows what else.
But people are living longer, and the fear of what happens at the end of that life, I guess it's partly modern medicine wants to fix everything so that we do get longer and longer and longer and with that has grown this fear that it might end.
(03:54):
"Oh my God, when's it going to end, and how will that happen?"
So I think it’s come from the human side first and grown within us.
As our animals get older, obviously we're much, much older but as they get older, they're not going to live as long.
Then we're left with this dilemma that here we see an old being and that scares us.
Modern medicine has developed such a way that I guess euthanasia has become the first thought rather than, "I have a choice and what can I do to help?"
(04:24):
I think perhaps modern medicine is more about fixing what we see.
So euthanasia has been part of, I don't know, part of that fixing process.
But it has become more normal than allowing an animal to reach a natural conclusion to end of life, supported fully.
Obviously, I'm not talking about just letting them die.
(04:45):
Does that begin to open the conversation?
Karen Wylie (04:47):
Yes, I think it does because it hasn't always been the situation.
Of course, as one of the statistics I found a few months ago that I'm still very fixed on is looking at how humans die.
When you look at the state reports from the 50 US states but also Canada, Australia, and the UK— humans die from natural causes.
(05:13):
92 to 99% of them are categorized as dying from natural causes.
It could be from a particular cancer that is the ultimate thing that causes the death but that happens over a period of time.
Maybe they need morphine at the end a little bit but basically they're dying on their own time.
Medical aid in dying, MAID (M-A-I-D), human euthanasia accounts for less than 1% of human deaths and yet with companion animals, 90% of them are euthanized.
(05:44):
Basically our companion animals are mammals just like we are.
Our biology is pretty darn similar.
Why is it so dramatically different for our animals than for ourselves?
If it's not cruel and unusual and pain and suffering for humans to die naturally, why do we suddenly bring in all the issues about pain and suffering when it comes to our pets?
Gail Pope (06:05):
I think, as you say, it's a small part but it's growing, the talk about euthanasia for humans.
It's not necessarily called euthanasia directly but I think there's more and more interest in how to help the life end in the human field.
So that possibly contributes too.
(06:25):
I just find it such a shame that we can't work towards being open about these topics and realizing that it is a choice.
They need to be brought into the conversation.
Some animals make it very clear they do or don't want to be euthanized.
Others make it very clear that they can't tolerate a natural passing.
(06:45):
So there are so many different avenues to look at in this conversation.
Karen Wylie (06:50):
Yes and each situation, it's what's right for that particular animal and that particular family and the overall circumstances and situation.
But it doesn't seem that the euthanasia procedure is approached in that individual way.
It's approached as a medical procedure.
When treatment fails, when there's no other treatment available, then everything jumps to, to euthanasia as I guess the solution which brings us back to what you were saying when we started off about the need to fix.
Gail Pope (07:23):
I just thought of something else, and of course, this takes me way back into BrightHaven history over the years— which is that the one time, I guess it's not one time, because it would happen quite often.
If a family or a single parent are unable to take care of an animal who's reaching the end of life for whatever reason, it could be sickness, it could be their job, they travel, they simply can't give the care that's needed to the animal.
(07:48):
That's what BrightHaven was all about.
Many of the animals came to us because either their owner loved the work we did and couldn't cope or their business caused them to travel and they simply couldn't care for the animal properly.
Or there were so many reasons but they didn't want to euthanize.
So I think if there were more places that actually would be able to help, offer help to people— if you think about it, that's what we're doing with the animal hospice group.
(08:16):
As we certify more and more people to be able to help people to help their animals during the last chapter of life, we're not talking about death, we're talking about living through that last chapter which is when the euthanasia verdict is very often given.
So it's all about caring and helping each other as well as the animal.
Karen Wylie (08:35):
And that's going back to the individual animal, I find it, trying to find the right word here because it's a whole lot more than disappointing to me and saying it's worrisome doesn't really cover it.
But I find the marketing slogans that have been used to help pet parents feel better about the euthanasia decision to really not consider the pet almost at all— even though those who created these slogans might feel they were also protecting the pet.
(09:04):
When we look at the phrasing of these marketing slogans "It's better to euthanize on a good day than a bad day," "Better a day too early than a day too late," it's all in essence trying to say it's better to euthanize before pain and suffering are actually happening.
And yet none of us, even the closest relationship I've ever had with my animals, I would not be able to predict exactly when they're going to die and veterinarians can't do that either.
(09:33):
Unless the animal is on the exam table and they say, "Hey, this is something we've got to deal with right now."
But those marketing slogans comfort so many pet parents.
So they make decisions to euthanize while animals are frolicking at the beach, running in the backyard, gobbling down multiple Big Macs, enjoying their Pup Cups, and then they've got a 3:00 appointment.
(09:56):
Yet the pet parent is understanding that they're good to do this because if they don't, there's going to be pain and suffering and they got to do it now to avoid being a bad pet parent later.
Gail Pope (10:07):
That takes us straight back to education.
If there was more education so people weren't so scared of what the dying process actually means— what it involves.
Because it's the same process whether you're, again, on two legs or four legs.
So the amount of education that is lacking is huge for people and for animals.
As a culture, we wouldn't be so scared of death and dying if we really understood more about it.
(10:32):
Of course, the spiritual aspect creeps in a little bit for some of us.
If people have a spiritual view of transition and what that means, then it can be very helpful.
And again, I think if you do believe that death isn't a brick wall that we run into then then tippy-toeing into that conversation can be terribly beneficial.
(10:53):
I think that's what brings an awful lot of people to me for consultations because they know their animal's approaching the end of life.
They may have been given a terminal diagnosis and then told, "Take him home", but you're going to have to make that decision.
It's close on time.
And they come to me.
"What could I do?
Do you think I should euthanize him now?" Of course there is the odd occasion where the answer would be, "We've talked it through and in your situation, I think it would be the most sensible decision.
(11:20):
You don't have a way out." However, for most it's, "Let's look at the question of "Is it time?"" "Is it time for what?"
When your dog's sitting in front of you, getting close to the end of his life, and he's wagging his tail and waiting for a treat, is it time for another treat?
Karen Wylie (11:35):
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (11:37):
It's just like the human way of ending a life.
It's slowly and surely and it's a process.
And yes, as in the human field too, there are myths.
We know that dying, the process of dying itself, is not painful.
But then we also know that disease, the out of balance situation in the body, can be painful.
(11:58):
And yes, if you didn't treat that early on, you would be remiss because that really is the most essential part in life for us all.
We don't want to live life, at any stage of it, dealing with extreme pain.
So if pain is treated in a chronic illness, then that pain would obviously be treated to its conclusion.
But the actual process of dying was created by Mother Nature, if you like, and it is a process that was designed for us as humans and as animals.
(12:29):
Mother Nature is fully capable of dealing with it.
It's us that aren't.
Karen Wylie (12:33):
Right, exactly.
Just as when we're coming into this world, this life, birth is usually by natural means.
Unless the life and health of the mother and/or the baby is at stake, in which case a cesarean is an intervention.
But when we look at end of life, suddenly we're flipping it and we're always intervening in the death process.
(12:55):
Yet with humans we are not doing that but with our pets, we are.
I think as you were saying when you started out here, people don't know what the dying process looks like.
Gail Pope (13:06):
No.
Karen Wylie (13:07):
And so they then can build up a lot of fear about it.
And if truth is told, most vets have never seen what a natural death looks like either.
It's generally not something they're exposed to in vet school or shown what a natural death looks like and how to support that process over time if pain occurs.
(13:28):
So that seems to be quite a mystery for people and a fear of it is also what pushes them back to the euthanasia procedure because you schedule the day and the time and the uncertainty.
At least the uncertainty of when the time is over but then there's all the regrets.
Gail Pope (13:47):
Yes, I don't think there's any one of us that could ever say that we look back after a particular euthanasia perhaps.
It sits in your heart for a long time knowing that maybe it was the wrong choice.
I know I can look back and say, "Oh my God, I can't believe I did that." But that was in the past and I didn't know any better because I was never educated.
(14:07):
I think starting in schools, we actually are opening the conversation up in schools about birthing.
I think we could do it at the other end of life too.
Karen Wylie (14:16):
I think we definitely could too.
Of course that is one of the reasons why this conversation was one we thought we could have today because we're working on some resources about natural death for more people to learn about it.
So that they at least can decide whether it's the right option for them, their family, and their pet.
One thing that always puzzles me, though about the death of our animals and coping with it, is so many animals are declining due to old age.
(14:45):
There's nothing really wrong with them but maybe it's a 15 or 18-year-old dog or a 20 or 25-year-old cat, literally old age and all their organs are not working quite as efficiently as they did.
Now, in my experience, and I think in yours too, we've had many animals die of old age naturally and not need a euthanasia procedure.
(15:07):
So that's I guess one very specific area that I don't understand why because when they're dying naturally of old age, they're just sleeping more.
They stop eating.
They're not drinking very much.
They're not responding as much.
Maybe a couple minutes, every 30 minutes or something where they want to attend to their mom or their dad but they're basically losing energy.
(15:29):
They're dying.
When that happens, people rush them to be euthanized.
I guess that's the kind of situation I'd like our educational efforts to help with because it can be a very peaceful end for everyone.
Gail Pope (15:42):
You've just taken the conversation right back to where we started to the word "Fear" because, you know, a natural passing such as you described is so beautiful.
Karen Wylie (15:52):
Yes.
Gail Pope (15:53):
It takes you to another place.
It really is beautiful and it seems strange to talk about the process of dying as being beautiful because of the fear, because of the misunderstandings and the this, that, and the other.
But it is very beautiful experience after which grief is very different.
Grief is very different because most often I've found anyway that I've grieved with my animal before they've died.
(16:18):
There's been a beautiful sense of togetherness as we've worked through the process together.
Then when they die, it's a time to honor the life that you've shared together rather than grieving them gone.
To realize that you've had this precious time and you've used every single minute of it for the benefit of your relationship which doesn't end when they're gone.
(16:40):
They've left their human house or their— sorry, not their human house.
Maybe that too but—
Karen Wylie (16:45):
Sometimes we wonder about that, right?
Gail Pope (16:47):
They've left their animal house, their body.
But to me, they still live on, whether it be in my heart, my memory, depending on what you believe.
That's the time to be with them still but just in a very different way.
And that can be such a treasure and such a comfort as you honor and celebrate the time you've spent together.
Karen Wylie (17:06):
Yes, you can grieve and will grieve still because you love them so much.
You're going to miss every moment with them but you don't have all that extra guilt or regret in that you've made a decision, "Oh, I made the wrong decision. I did it too late. I did it too early." Instead, your pet is determining its transition in its own time and that changes the experience of grief considerably.
Gail Pope (17:31):
It does.
I was just sitting here trying to think about at some of the beings behind me here.
Oh, just caught Ziggy there.
Karen Wylie (17:40):
In the reflection.
Gail Pope (17:42):
This side.
Karen Wylie (17:43):
Yes, there he is.
There he is.
Gail Pope (17:44):
And when you grieve after you've been through, I don't know how to describe it, you've been through an end of life journey together and you're still moving on through that journey but they're not with you.
When you think about them, there is still that mixed— it's different.
There's still that feeling in your heart of grief but it isn't grief.
(18:06):
It's love.
It's done a little bit of a transition because they mean so much to you but grief is a bit negative but there's this warm, joyous feeling that is wrapped up.
Obviously, there's grief.
There's sadness.
"Oh, my gosh, why can't he be here with me now? I can still almost feel his fur." There's that.
That's not going to go away but that's also precious, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (18:26):
It's very precious.
If you have had the opportunity to support them through old age, through their decline, you've had signs along the way that they are declining.
So helping you begin to get a handle on the fact that at some point you're going to be without them and that's happening a little bit each time.
When they can't reach the highest shelf on the cat tree, you notice.
(18:49):
When they can't go as long in the walk in the neighborhood, you notice.
Those are things you grieve about, too.
They're little bits at a time.
Gail Pope (18:57):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (18:58):
But you also, just as we do with humans where we want to be able to say we said everything we needed to say to each other before they died, you have that opportunity with your pets as they decline over time and die naturally of old age.
Gail Pope (19:13):
Just think about that.
Yes, that's perfect and it's as things should be.
But I wonder how many human families talk to their elders and vice versa about when they'll no longer be there, what they will do, and all the different thoughts about when you're gone, how will I feel, what will I do, from both sides.
We avoid it for the most part.
Karen Wylie (19:33):
It's another area we avoid, because—
Gail Pope (19:36):
It's planning.
Karen Wylie (19:37):
No one wants to deal with death.
It's unpleasant to think about being without someone or some being that we love.
So you're right.
It's even— what's the current number of days that someone is in hospice?
I think the current rate is six days.
It's largely because either the person who's dying doesn't want to admit they're dying, so they don't want to be admitted to hospice, or family members don't want to admit that the family member's dying.
(20:03):
Hospice means "death" so we're just not going to go there.
So I think you're right.
We have a lot of work to do when it comes to how we cope with death from other humans we love as well as our pets.
I think with our pets, their lifespans are so much shorter than ours that we experience, we go through this many times in our lives if we love our animals.
(20:24):
It's up to us to make the decisions and that's an overwhelming responsibility that at least if we're supporting a loved human, hopefully they can tell us their preferences.
But once again, as you're saying, do they have the discussion of what they want or don't want?
Gail Pope (20:42):
No I know I harp on this an awful lot, but have to say it again, there are so many wonderful books out there to read about human end of life and experiences that hospice workers, hospice practitioners have had with their patients and the lessons that they've learned as well as the families that they're serving.
And for me, with BrightHaven, if I hadn't had the last however many decades of experience with senior special needs, disabled, old, older— I wouldn't be where I am now.
(21:14):
They taught me.
I was lucky to have all those teachers.
It was such a blessing.
Didn't seem like it in the beginning when it started to really evolve.
It was very nerve-wracking and I had a lot to learn.
But once we open and start learning It changes us completely.
I don't think you'll ever take the fear away but as humans, we have so many odd little things we fear.
(21:36):
It's not only dying.
We fear all sorts of other things.
So I don't think that's ever going to be completely gone but the more you learn, the more you understand, it lessens the fear.
Karen Wylie (21:47):
Yes which is just one of the many reasons that we circle back to talk about these topics in new ways at various times.
Because it's something we all need to deal with, will have to deal with in some way, whether it's humans or our pets.
Gail Pope (22:02):
Oh, yes.
Karen Wylie (22:03):
But when we're the decision makers for our pets then it becomes truly imperative for us to have a good understanding of ourselves and what we're comfortable with and what we want for our pets.
Gail Pope (22:15):
Definitely.
Karen Wylie (22:17):
If today's conversation has stirred something in you maybe you found yourself thinking about a choice you made in the past or a choice you are currently facing or that you think might be happening down the road, we want you to to sit with that not with guilt or regret but just with curiosity about what might be possible.
Neither Gail nor I would say that natural death is the right thing for every pet, for every situation.
(22:41):
We started out saying that.
We've said it throughout but it is a real path.
It is a supported path and it deserves to be part of every conversation that happens when a family learns their pet is seriously ill.
So Gail and I are going to continue to have this conversation and because we believe it's one of the most important ones we can have when we talk about comfort care for our pets or animal hospice care for our pets.
(23:05):
So stay close.
More is coming.
We're developing some new resources for you.
Anything you would like to end today with, Gail?
Gail Pope (23:12):
Let's see which one, I've got so many little sayings.
Karen Wylie (23:16):
Oh.
That you do.
Gail Pope (23:18):
What saying?
I guess baby steps is the one that comes to me now because taking baby steps and again with love, they fit together in this conversation.
You can't learn everything all in one go.
One transition can open your mind and heart and help you to realize there's an awful lot to learn.
Not only about death and transition but transition coming into this world too and putting it all together as one enormous miracle.
(23:47):
It's a miracle of life.
So yes, just taking baby steps, reading, learning, talking to others, just opening and continuing that conversation.
Karen Wylie (23:56):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
And thank you for being with us here today.
Thank you for caring enough about your pet to ask the hard questions that aren't usually easy to ask.
We thank you for trusting us enough to ask them with you.
Thank you for being with us today and hope to see you next week.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (24:15):
Goodbye.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(24:51):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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