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March 12, 2026 6 mins

Dion Khodagholy is trying to cure epilepsy by implanting a neural interface on the brain. Khodagholy is a UCI associate professor of electrical engineering and computer science and has created the NeuroGrid which maps the brain's activity once it is placed on it.  Listen to the sound of the brain and learn why the NeuroGrid is such an effective neural electronic for the brain in this episode.

Transcript:

[sound of brain waves]

NATALIE TSO, HOST: That's the sound of the human brain.

[sci fi music]

Those are spiking neurons from a brain of a child with epilepsy. They were recorded by a NeuroGrid placed on the brain during surgery.

What's a NeuroGrid? It's a conformable neural interface that one puts on the brain to help map it. It looks like a transparent film that's thinner than a human hair. On it are gold electronic patterns that carry the neural signals. It was created in Dion Khodagholy’s lab at UC Irvine. He's an associate professor of electrical engineering and computer science. Why does he think it can help children with epilepsy?

DION KHODAGHOLY: Epilepsy is one of the few neurological disorders that has an electrographic signature. You can track it and identify it. We believe that by being able to accurately pinpoint where it’s originating from during development, there's a high chance we can correct it.

TSO: That was the first child to have a NeuroGrid placed on the brain. The NeuroGrid was first conceptualized in 2009 and implanted in a patient's brain in 2014. It's thinner, safer, and offers higher resolution readings than current electronics for the brain. Ten hospitals in the U.S. have used it.

KHODAGHOLY:: One of the unique features of NeuroGrid is that it is able to record individual neurons firing from the surface of the brain without penetrating inside. This was something practically no other device could do.

TSO: Khodagholy explains why his NeuroGrid is so effective.

KHODAGHOLY:: They're very similar mechanically to the brain itself. It’s very soft and can follow the curvilinear surface of the brain. They're made out of conducting polymers. These are inherently closer to what body and neurons are and makes it a lot easier and more effective to transduce neural signals.

[sound of metal evaporator in lab]

[music fades]

TSO: The NeuroGrid is made in clean rooms, but his lab has machines such as this metal evaporator that makes prototypes and deposits gold on the polymer. Why gold?

KHODAGHOLY:: Gold is our interconnect. That's how the electrical signal from the brain gets carried to our amplifiers. It's a very good conductor. It's very inert. In the brain, we have lots of salt and water. It will cause oxidation. So we use inert material like gold, platinum to not have any chemical reactions.

TSO: The NeuroGrid helps map brain regions and detect individual neural spiking. So far, the NeuroGrid can have 256 contacts with 128 surface contacts on the brain. Khodagholy's lab is now partnering with Children's Hospital of Orange County. Before that, the NeuroGrid was used in adult epilepsy patients.

KHODAGHOLY:: Our goal with the grid is that because it has a higher resolution, we find out more effectively where these unwanted couplings are. And because of its scalability and the fact that it's made with the same technology as the rest of our electronics that can also stimulate or deliver electric charges for effective intervention, we convert this eventually to a fully conformable closed loop system, meaning it can record in real time process, identify where those unwanted activities are, and then deliver electrical stimulation to suppress it so closing the loop in real time.

TSO: The lab has made progress in countering the effects of epilepsy, like loss of memory in rodents.

KHODAGHOLY:: We've recently showed that indeed, if you're able to establish a device to detect this in real time and create electrical stimulation at the right time, you're able to significantly improve memory in rodents that had epilepsy.

We’ve also shown signatures of this exist in the human brain, so it's not a complete disconnect. We have just a recording from the human brain that shows indeed the patterns we're seeing in rodents exist in humans as well. Our next logical step is to stimulate human brain. That is where things becomes a bit more challenging, both from a regulatory perspective as well as overall device safety concerns. What if that device breaks instead of delivering charge to the brain? What are the safety measures that controls the amount of charge you deliver? Right now from device perspective, we're heavily focused on meeting all the safety requirements for stimulation. Hopefully in a year or two, we'd be able to have this completed and go for human testing.

TSO: Khodagholy’s time from lab to bedside is fairly short.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
That's the sound of the human brain.
Those are spiking neuronsfrom a brain of a child with epilepsy.
They were recorded by a NeuroGridplaced on the brain during surgery.
What's a NeuroGrid?
It's a conformable neural interfacethat one puts on the brain to help map it.
It looks like a transparent filmthat's thinner than a human hair.

(00:23):
On it are gold electronic patternsthat carry the neural signals.
It was created in DionKhodagholy’s lab at UC Irvine.
He's an associate professor of electricalengineering and computer science.
Why does he think it can helpchildren with epilepsy?
Epilepsy
is one of the few neurological disordersthat has an electrographic signature.

(00:44):
You can track it and identify it.
We believe that by being ableto accurately pinpoint where it’s
originating from during development,there's a high chance we can correct it.
That was the first childto have a NeuroGrid placed on the brain.
The NeuroGrid was first conceptualizedin 2009
and implanted in a patient'sbrain in 2014.

(01:06):
It's thinner, safer, and offershigher resolution readings
than current electronics for the brain.
Ten hospitals in the U.S. have used it.
One of the unique features of NeuroGrid is that it is able to record
individual neurons firing from the surfaceof the brain without penetrating inside.
This was something practicallyno other device could do.

(01:27):
Khodagholy explainswhy his NeuroGrid is so effective.
They're very similar mechanicallyto the brain itself.
It’s very, very soft and can followthe curvilinear surface of the brain.
They're made out of conducting polymers.
These are inherently closerto what body and neurons are,
and makes it a lot easier and moreeffective to transduce neural signals.

(01:48):
The NeuroGrid is made in clean rooms,but his lab has machines such as this
metal evaporator that makes prototypesand deposits gold on the polymer.
Why gold? Gold is our interconnect.
That's how the electrical signal fromthe brain gets carried to our amplifiers.

(02:08):
It's a very good conductor. It'svery inert.
In the brain,we have lots of salt and water.
It will cause oxidation.
So we use inert materiallike gold, platinum
to not have any chemical reactions.
The NeuroGrid helps map brain regionsand detect individual neural spiking.
So far,the NeuroGrid can have 256 contacts

(02:30):
with 128 surface contacts on the brain.
Khodagholy's lab is now partneringwith Children's Hospital of Orange County.
Before that, the NeuroGrid was usedin adult epilepsy patients.
Our goal with the grid is thatbecause it has a higher resolution,
we find out more effectivelywhere these unwanted couplings are.

(02:51):
And because of its scalabilityand the fact that it's made
with the same technology as the restof our electronics that can also stimulate
or deliver electric chargesfor effective intervention,
we convert this eventuallyto a fully conformable closed loop system,
meaning it can record in real timeprocess, identify where those unwanted

(03:12):
activities are, and then deliverelectrical stimulation to suppress it.
So then closing the loop in real time.
The lab has made progress
in countering the effects of epilepsy,like loss of memory in rodents.
We've recently showed that indeed,if you're able to establish a device
to detect this in real time and createelectrical stimulation at the right time,

(03:34):
you're able to significantly improvememory in rodents that had epilepsy.
We’ve also shown signatures
of this exist in the human brain,so it's not a complete disconnect.
We have just a recordingfrom the human brain that shows indeed
the patterns we're seeing in rodentsexist in humans as well.
Our next logical step is to stimulatehuman brain.

(03:57):
That is where things becomes a bitmore challenging, both from a regulatory
perspectiveas well as overall device safety concerns.
What if that device breaksinstead of delivering charge to the brain?
What are the safety measures that controlsthe amount of charge you deliver?
Right now from device perspective,we're heavily focused on meeting
all the safety requirementsfor stimulation.

(04:20):
Hopefully in a year or two,
we'd be able to have this completedand go for human testing.
Khodagholy’stime from lab to bedside is fairly short.
Maybe this is achieved because we are ableto do most of these things at UCI.
We don't need to subcontractor outsource it.
This is very uniquebecause UCI is one of the very few schools

(04:41):
that School of Medicine, basic science,engineering is all in one campus.
We're all faculty of the same place.
It makes the collaboration very,very easy.
He is also right therein the operating room when they place it
on the brain.
He told me what happens in brain surgery.
It's a huge endeavor.
As you can imagine,there are many, many parties involved.

(05:03):
Anesthesiology,the neurosurgery, neurologist.
It's a very delicate system,but in short, yes, there's an incision
on the essentially scalp.
You're able to open part of the skull.
The way to identifywhere it is is actually very interesting.
The patient have their MRI imagesand then in the O.R..,
there's often a device withmultiple cameras that is able to identify

(05:27):
which area of the scalp is openbased on a few markers,
and then is able to display in real timefor the surgeon.
You know, if you point out with their wandwhere on the MRI and your pointing,
and so you can very carefully identifywhere its cranial window needs to be open.
They open very precisely,of course, with a lot of care.

(05:51):
And then the dural mater
is another layer of essentially collagenfibers around the brain.
This is called blood brain barrier.
It protects their cerebrospinal fluidgoing out or anything
coming in and essentially you will end uphaving with the exposed brain.
And they identified, you know,where the probe needs to be placed
or where it needs to be resected.

(06:11):
And then they go from there.
Doctors eventually place the NeuroGridon the brain
to allow Khodagholyto hear brainwaves like this one.
He hopes devices like NeuroGridand responsive
neuromodulationwill lead to a cure for epilepsy.
The Lab Beat is brought to youby the UC Irvine Samueli
School of Engineering,and I'm Natalie Tso.

(06:33):
Thanks for joining us.
And see you at the next lab.
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