In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt McGee welcomes back Dr. Will Willimon, former bishop in the United Methodist Church, professor at Duke Divinity School, and author of more than 70 books; for a candid conversation about his latest work, The Church We Carry: Loss, Leadership, and the Future of Our Church.
Drawing from the story of his own home congregation in South Carolina, Dr. Willimon reflects on the complex factors that led to church disaffiliation, the cultural loss of Christianity’s “home court advantage,” and the urgent need for pastors and church leaders to reclaim truth-telling and healthy debate.
Whether you’re a pastor, lay leader, or simply someone concerned about the trajectory of the church, this episode will challenge you to think more deeply about what it means to lead faithfully in an age of division and decline.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:-
Why United Methodist decline goes beyond debates about inclusivity
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The role of bishops, governance, and aging membership in shaping the schism
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Why conflict avoidance damages the church—and how to recover the art of holy argument
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How misinformation, gossip, and technology complicate communication in congregations
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What hope looks like for pastors and churches facing uncertain futures
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More Than Inclusivity – The United Methodist schism is more complex than debates about sexuality. Membership decline and governance failures set the stage long before disaffiliation.
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The Need for Healthy Debate – Churches must recover the counter-cultural skill of debating faithfully. As Dr. Willimon reminded us, we should be able to argue passionately and still gather together at the Lord’s table.
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Resisting Gossip and Lies – In an age of rumors, conspiracies, and viral misinformation, truth-telling has never been harder, or more essential. Pastors and congregations must commit to honest, transparent communication that resists the lure of gossip.
📖 Pick up Dr. Willimon’s book The Church We Carry: Loss, Leadership, and the Future of Our Church. 👉 Subscribe to The Last Service Podcast for more conversations on church transitions, leadership, and legacy.
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