January 21, 2026 • 36 mins
Summary
In this engaging conversation, Indra K and Megumi explore the complexities of navigating the messy middle of careers, personal growth, and entrepreneurship. Megumi shares her journey from Tokyo to Kansas City, her career pivots from marketing to acting, and ultimately to creating a community-focused wine events company. The discussion highlights the importance of creating supportive spaces for women, the art of gathering, and the lessons learned through trial and error in both personal and professional realms.
Takeaways
- Megumi's journey reflects the importance of embracing change.
- Creating spaces for women fosters community and support.
- Wine events can be a platform for empowerment and connection.
- Understanding what you don't want is as crucial as knowing what you want.
- Entrepreneurship often comes with unexpected challenges and surprises.
- The importance of intentionality in event planning and execution.
- Curiosity and playfulness enhance the experience of learning about wine.
- Networking in a supportive environment can lead to personal growth.
- Self-discovery is a continuous journey, especially in entrepreneurship.
- Building a community can provide validation and encouragement.
Useful Links
- Megumi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/megumicalver/
- Megumi's Newsletter: https://merobebe.beehiiv.com/
- Indra Klavins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
- The Messy Middle Matters Merch http://messymiddlemerch.com
- Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: http://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
Keywords
career pivots, entrepreneurship, women empowerment, wine events, personal growth, community building, marketing, acting, self-discovery, networking
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Indra Klavins (00:05):
Hi. I'm Indra, and I'd like to welcome you to
the messy middle matters, wheremy friends and I explore all the
twists, turns and challengesthat arise in the messy middle
of work. Hey, everyone, welcomeback to the messy middle
matters, where we talk about allthings, about the messy middle
of work. I love to have theconversations that people
(00:26):
usually don't have out loud. Ifthey have them, they're in a
hushed conversation in ahallway, maybe in a supply
closet, or you're like, asking afriend over DM you're like, was
I crazy about that? But anyway,I am so insanely excited for
this conversation, because thisperson helped to transform my
(00:48):
2025 and me personally, becauseof the way that she walks and
moves in this world, deeplyadmire her for not just what
she's doing, but how she's doingand how she creates spaces that
are so supportive and you and sogenerous in the way that she
does it. Welcome magumi,
Megumi Calver (01:07):
thank you so much. That was such a kind
glowing intro. Oh my gosh.
Indra Klavins (01:13):
Well earned. Well, well, well earned. I'm
genuinely grateful that I've hadthe pleasure of crossing paths
with you. Why don't you telleverybody a little bit about
yourself? So I
Megumi Calver (01:26):
grew up in Tokyo, Japan. My parents are still
there. I'm half Japanese andsort of have flitted around the
coasts, went to New York forcollege, then went to San
Francisco, LA and then am now inKansas City with my husband. And
I have a background inmarketing, but I've also dabbled
(01:49):
in production. I spent a fewyears pursuing acting, and was
hosting for a little bit, andnow I am building marrow baby,
which is a wine fueled eventsand media.
Indra Klavins (02:06):
I'm like, I got, I've got to bring my class with
me for this one. It's cranberryjuice, but still, it works. It
works. It's never too early forwine, but, you know, so, yeah,
can you? Can you pronounce thatone more time? I think I may
have stepped on it. Miro, Bebemarrow, baby, Yes, yep,
fantastic. And, like, I lovethis from your site, and we'll
(02:27):
talk about so back in August, amutual of ours put out this
alert about a event that theywere helping you host around
wine women and wisdom. And I sawit, I'm like, ooh, that's
interesting. It's it smells,it's it just felt different,
right? And what I love from yourwebsite that describes that I
(02:51):
think you beautifullyencapsulated in words, women
don't need more advice. Theyneed more rooms where they can
show up fully, where ambitionand femininity can coexist, and
where confidence is poured asgenerously as the wine, and that
is what you do. And so went toyour event in August. Loved it.
It totally it like it rewired mybrain in really interesting
(03:14):
ways. And then went to yourevent in December, and we'll
talk about upcoming, someupcoming events, maybe let the
end of this. But I was sodelighted, because I was, I was,
I told you that that night. I'mlike, I was a little I was like,
Oh, I'm like, I really hope thatwasn't just lightning in a
bottle. I hope that she's goingto be able to pull it off again.
(03:35):
I mean, I had faith, but ithappened. It happened. And you
are remarkable, remarkable,remarkable at the way that you
create spaces. But like thatdidn't come out of nowhere, that
came out of a career journey anda lot of things that you've
done. So, you know, I think theone thing that you said when we
were talking about, like, whatwe might talk about on the
(03:56):
podcast, you know, the line thatsticks out is the career that
made sense until it didn'tright. Do you mind digging into
a little bit more about yourjourney? Yeah, I
Megumi Calver (04:07):
mean, like I said, I've sort of done the
whole career pivot thing before.It was trendy. I feel like
nowadays, everyone's like, Oh,you just pivot and you do a
different industry, or you do adifferent role, and that was not
a thing. No, when I had startedout my career, I started doing
marketing, like I said, atShowtime Networks, actually in
(04:30):
New York. And the reason I left,I loved the job had, well, had
to leave because I followed anex boyfriend to the Bay Area. He
got a job at a startup. So I gota job at an agency doing
marketing for a tech company,and I was just miserable, I
think partly, I miss my friendsin New York, but the work was
(04:52):
still marketing, but very, verydifferent doing, you know,
entertainment versus tech, and Iwas surrounded by all these
tech. People, and it was also amuch smaller team. And so I
think all of the differentthings combined made me feel
really unfulfilled and notmotivated. And I somehow
(05:13):
randomly ended up in an actingclass, and it was supposed to
just be like a hobby or a littlefun, creative thing to do, yeah,
and then the next thing youknow, to my parents, horror, I
am quitting my job, and I'mlike, I'm gonna be an actor. My
parents are like, is this like alittle thing you're gonna do
while you study for your MBA?
Indra Klavins (05:37):
That sounds like that? Sounds like a very natural
response that they would everlike, a typical response that a
parent would have, yeah, yes,
Megumi Calver (05:44):
but I think partly it was just nothing. It
was something I've never donebefore. I had done, you know, I
graduated from college in threeyears, and I interned every
semester and summer, and I wasworking, and all of a sudden I
just wanted to blow it all up, Iguess. And so that is what took
me to LA and I was, you know,obviously, was still working as
(06:07):
a server and at a wine store andso on and so forth, doing this
little starving artist thing andbooking just enough acting work
to keep me going until Irealized that the whole
freelance life of it all, it isextreme. Freelancing is what I
like to call acting, and it'salso very last minute, you'll
(06:30):
get a call from your agent oryour manager saying, Hey, can
you get to an audition on theother side of town in three
hours? And then you might, ifyou had a call back, the
callback audition is the nextday, and then you might be
shooting in Ohio next week. I amsuch a planner is that it's so
last minute, even forcommercials or anything. I'm
like, I worked in marketing. Youguys have been planning this
(06:51):
commercial for weeks.
Indra Klavins (06:54):
Sometimes, you
Megumi Calver (06:56):
know, the holiday commercial has to get shot. Why
Are you auditioning it tomorrowto shoot next week, but I just I
couldn't do that anymore. Andalso thinking ahead about, you
know, do I want to have afamily? And let's say I do
become very, very successful.It's very long days and hours on
sets, a lot of time away fromhome. And I was like, You know
(07:18):
what? I don't like that lifeeither, and I'm very grateful
for what acting taught me. I'mvery grateful for the all the
opportunities I had working inrelation to wine, and obviously
that has sort of helped put mewhere I am today. So for all of
that, I'm very grateful as muchas I liked to complain about my
(07:38):
you know, crazy la customerswhen I was a server, but,
Indra Klavins (07:43):
but So during those like, during that phase of
that transformation, like thatcan be so disorienting, right?
And it can be so like, I'vefound that when I've gone
through shifts of change, likethe structures that serve the
person who I was before, or thetools that serve me, the person
that I was before, didn't alwayssupport me as I was becoming, or
(08:05):
became this next thing thatmaybe, maybe short term, maybe
long term, who the heck knows,what is does anything? Did you
have anything that, actually,that you were able to like
leverage, whether it was a bookor a practice or anything, or
was it just something innatelyin you? You're like, No, I'm
just going to do this. A Oh,
Megumi Calver (08:22):
wait, I grew up as a national figure skater, and
Lee, I was, yes, a nationallycompetitive figure skater in
Japan. And then I did the wholeviolin and piano, and I was in,
this is so geeky, but I was inconcert choir and glee club, or
(08:43):
Glee choir, whatever it wascalled, and two acapella groups
in high school, I was such anerd, and I did a lot of dance
and so sort of that sort ofperformance side. I always
thought of myself as notcreative, because I'm not very
good at, like, the visual arts.But in other ways, I was
creative. Yeah, so that sort ofwas there in terms of the
(09:06):
performance and acting, butpublic speaking, though, was
terrifying. Okay, so I thinkthat was also why my parents
were surprised, because theywere like, you're usually so
quiet you don't want to dopublic speaking, but you want to
be on a stage and yell and cry,like, what are you doing?
Indra Klavins (09:25):
Funny, how we can surprise our parents? So my a, I
used to figure skate as a kid. Inever landed my axle. I got that
far, but I was, I was never, Iwas never, you know, so when you
said that, I'm like, oh mygoodness, we could talk about
that too. But when my big whereI surprised my parents was my
what I did not want to go tocollege at all, like, because,
because I was, I had no ideawhat I wanted to do with my
life. I'm like, why would Iwaste my my time, your money on
(09:49):
going to college? If I'm notsure my mother's like, you're
going to go, it's until youfigure out what you want to do.
You're going now. I'm like,Okay, fine. My freshman year at
Rutgers, I call my mother. I go,I figured out what I want to do.
I want to be a massagetherapist. She's like, that's
lovely, sweetheart. Go get yourdegree. But beyond that, which
she was surprised by, she'slike, You, I was not a I, my
(10:12):
mother perceived me as not acuddly child, right? So, like,
this non cuddly child is goingto be touching human. Be like
she it was just such a mind. Solike you were all, like, talking
out loud, and yeah, I love that.I love that.
Megumi Calver (10:24):
So funny. You know what my grandma told me
once, and this is when I wasmuch younger, too, maybe not
even high school. Anyway, itdoesn't matter, but she told me
that college is where you go tostudy what you want to study
whatever you're interested in,and grad school is where you go
to study what you need to studyfor your work. And I always
(10:48):
just, I don't know if that'sactually today, in 2025 or 2026
sorry if that's still relevant,but I kind of took that to
heart. And my Yeah, like mycollege study has very little to
do with what I do now, but I Isort of built my career
experience outside of it, yeah,internships and whatnot.
Indra Klavins (11:10):
Yeah, that's so interesting, and I can see how
that used to be true, and Heavenonly knows what's true in
academia these days. Yeah. Okay,so you're in LA, you're an
actor. Yes, we know we have asense of where you land now from
we talked about earlier, how didyou get from LA to doing what
you're doing today?
Megumi Calver (11:31):
Oh my gosh, the journey from going into acting
and leaving acting was reallytough, because I felt like it
was such a big risk to be like,I'm quitting my job and I'm
going into acting, and then tobe like, just kidding, I'm
quitting acting and I'm goingback into marketing. And so I
(11:54):
felt like, was I just giving up?All my acting friends were like,
Oh, you're quitting. And I'mlike, No, I'm not quitting. I
mean, yes, I'm quitting, but I'mnot quitting. It's not for me
anymore. And so honestly, thequitting to go into acting was
(12:14):
easy, or, sorry, yes, quittingmy marketing job to go into
acting, I feel like, was almosteasier than having to go back in
also, because, you know, goingback into the corporate world, I
have this, what, two, three yeargap where I kind of did some
freelance marketing, but not alot. Luckily, I was able to get
(12:35):
a job in LA at a marketing andPR firm, and I started March 1,
2020, so I was in the office oneweek before everything shut
down. So that could not havebeen better timing.
Indra Klavins (12:49):
And you got your computer. I still remember
trying to get new hires theircomputers as all that was going
down. Oh my goodness, yeah,
Megumi Calver (12:56):
that was it was crazy town. And from there I my
boss was a little much, shall wesay. And I found, and it was a
small team too. I will say thatone of my colleagues, again,
(13:19):
very small team, one of mycolleagues had to go to the
emergency room for, like, somekind of heart condition, and was
in the hospital for a few days.He not checked out. I don't know
what you check out of thehospital. He was released, or
Indra Klavins (13:35):
whatever you release your Yeah. Release,
that's much Yes. Release, he wasreleased, released from
discharge, discharge where wewere looking for
Megumi Calver (13:47):
he was discharged from the hospital, and that
afternoon, he was back online.And my boss was like, Oh, thank
God, you're back. It was like,anyways,
Indra Klavins (13:58):
that lesson, that story, is probably so resonant
to so many people, wild. It'swild. How companies and people
in companies just ignoresomething like that. It's like
moving on wild.
Megumi Calver (14:14):
So I ended up getting shingles from that
company, boss, I should say. Andthen I ended up at a was trying
to get out, found my way into astartup where I was the first
employee. So again, anothersmall team, and I was there for
two to three years, two and ahalf years, maybe, or so I can't
(14:35):
remember exactly, was alsorealizing that was also not a
fit for me. I was the only womanin a team of men for the most
part, and there was a lot ofconflict in within the team, and
we were kind of working crazyhours sometimes. And my. My
(15:00):
husband and I were thinkingabout moving to Kansas City. He
grew up here, and his family ishere, and LA is, you know, so
expensive, and they would notlet me work remote. Essentially
zero work from home, sosometimes we would have to go in
Monday through Saturday inperson, so I'm driving an hour
(15:20):
each way. And I was like, Idon't think I can do this
anymore. Amongst other issues, Ithink after I quit, fired
someone, and that person quitafter two months. Not a you
problem. There's your evidence,not a me. It was not a problem.
Yeah. And so I just needed tomake money, and so I kind of
(15:43):
randomly fell into freelance butsort of during that time, while
I was still at the startup, Iactually had a personal finance
podcast for millennial women,and they when they hired me, the
startup hired me, they weregoing to do fundraising, and
they're like, We don't wantpeople to Google you or Google
the company, and see that you'redoing something else you need to
(16:05):
look like you're 100% dedicatedto the startup. So I was like,
for sure, whatever. So I quit mypodcast. But at some point I
missed, I didn't miss personalfinance. I didn't talk about I
didn't miss talking aboutfinance, but I missed especially
being in such a male dominatedspace. It was a male dominated
industry. Dominated industry. Ireally missed talking to women
(16:27):
and helping women. And so I waslike, instead of personal
finance, why don't I start goingat it through my real passion?
Why? And so I started studyingwine. And kind of instead of
doing a podcast, which, as youknow, is a lot of work, it's a
lot of work, a lot of work, so Istarted with a newsletter, and
(16:52):
it kind of just started there ofjust, how can I talk to more
women? Help women also study anddrink more wine,
Indra Klavins (17:01):
yeah, yeah. And so let's talk about how you
create your events, right? Ifyou don't mind, because, like,
the environment even, even goingup to the event like, and I've
got, like, you, I can, I'm, Idon't know if it was in foreign
by but you're following a lot ofthe similar steps that, like
Priya Parker talks about in herbook, in the art of gathering,
(17:23):
you know, like it's I felt, andit might have come organically
and naturally for you, but it'sI felt the stage being set long
before I showed up there, themoment I walked in the door, it
was just it was so intentional.Like, everything that you're
doing is intentional, whetherit's the sommelier that you're
(17:43):
choosing to partner with thefood that's there, the way that
you are through, the way thatyour invitations are set up, the
people that you're curating tobe in attendance. How did that
all come about?
Megumi Calver (17:57):
I so it started as the newsletter, and then I
took a break from thenewsletter. Honestly, it was
supposed to be a holiday break,and it ended up being a year and
a half long break. And partlythis was still when I was at the
startup. We didn't know if wewere moving or not. I was trying
to figure out how to leave. Andthen I kind of just fell into
freelance marketing life, and Istill wanted to do something
(18:23):
with wine and women. And I hadmet a few different women, wine
makers, women Wine Owners, andthey were like, if you ever want
to do a tasting, let me know.And I love event planning. I
just love planning, I think isreally the problem. And so I was
(18:44):
like, oh, plan an event. It'llbe great. So kind of out of
nowhere, literally, the nightbefore we moved from LA to
Kansas City. So my husband'slike, packing things up. Most of
our stuff is gone in trucks onthe way to or already arrived in
Kansas City, and I'm runningaround hosting this wine event
(19:07):
for women. So I did my first onein LA and was able to gather a
bunch of founders and CEOs and awoman wine importer, Sheila, who
you met at the last event, andsome of her winemakers came, and
I read, as you mentioned, theart of gathering, and wanted to
(19:28):
make sure that even if it wasn'tsome super high budget event,
yeah, it still felt veryintentional, and the women would
feel comfortable, open safe assoon as they walked in the door,
(19:52):
that even if it wasn't like itwas high high touch, even if it
wasn't necessarily high end inthe modest. Very sense, and I
wanted to make sure everyone wasaware of what was going to
happen at the event. So to yourpoint, you know, making sure the
stage is set before they walk inthe door for LA, where parking
(20:13):
is always such an issue, I gaveeveryone, like, very specific
parking instructions. Pleasearrive on time. This is what
we're gonna do, this is whatyou're gonna get. This is the
time we will be there. And it'sreally the art of gathering. Was
very, very helpful for me, butI'm also just such a control
freak, and so I think that helpsas well. And I am so so done of
(20:39):
working with can I say on here?Please do. Please do. I was so
tired of working with thesefriggin at my previous companies
that I wanted to make sure thatthis was a place where there
were no yeah And sure, there'salways going to be someone who's
(20:59):
chats more than someone else, ortalks more. But I try to make it
very, very clear, of like, we'reall here. We're not here to sell
to each other. You're not hereto pitch yourself or your
services or your business orwhatever. You're here to, yes,
be be open and meet otherpeople, talk to other people,
but also listen to other people,
Indra Klavins (21:20):
and that's exactly what happens. It's so
funny. And when you're inconversation with really
interesting, engaged people, Iwas just running around like,
I'm like, I would love for youto be in my podcast. And it
wasn't as a pitch, it was moreas a like, I love the world
needs more of what's happeningin this room, right? Because
what's there in both of therooms that I've been with you,
(21:44):
there's this huge sense ofcuriosity. There's a sense of
play. That's really, I find thatthat was probably the most
wonderful invitation. You know,it happened in both of them.
Like, what do you smell in thislike, Oh, I smell a leather
jacket. I smell a bit of moth,and it was like there were no
wrong answers. And the fact thatwe were invited to not worry
(22:06):
about a playbook that wascreated by somebody somewhere
along the way about how youshould experience wine, and we
were just experiencing wine andfood and conversation in just a
an authentic, playful way, notchildish, playful, very, very
different. And it was just so,so remarkable, so remarkable.
Megumi Calver (22:31):
I think the thing with wine, right? The reason
like, Okay, you get a can ofbeer and you can drink that by
yourself, right? It's just acan. You can get a cocktail. You
can also drink that by yourself.A wine bottle is pretty big. I'm
not saying I have never drunk abottle by myself. It's certainly
(22:51):
possible, so I've heard but forthe most I remember the bottle.
I mean, I remember the bottlethat I had by myself, but for
the most part, it's meant to beshared, right? Like you hear in
Italy, oh, this is just tablewine, because it's wine that's
on the table for everyone aroundthe table to be drinking and
sharing. And so I think for me,especially with the events, wine
(23:16):
is a great way to bring peopletogether to have that shared
experience. Obviously, thesocial lubrication of alcohol
also helps. And I think startingoff with wine too. Wine can feel
so intimidating. It's purposelyseen as a snobby, pretentious
(23:38):
thing. There's all these likefancy words around it, but if we
can all just come in to theroom, gather together, share a
glass of wine, kind of forgetall that snootiness and just
say, Oh, this is what I smell ortaste, or what does that mean,
right? Like, we had an orangewine at the December event, and
(23:59):
someone was like, I don'tunderstand what that means. I
hear about orange wine, but whatorange wine, but what actually
is orange wine and being able totalk about that so that everyone
starts off with a little bit ofa learning experience and not
again in a condescending, I'mgoing to teach you kind of way,
but we're all just being open toand curious. I think that also
(24:20):
helps. And I get to drink wine,which is always a win, win.
Yeah.
Indra Klavins (24:25):
And as you're saying, I didn't clock this
until just now in both of theevents, I happened to wind up
talking to other sommeliers whowere there as guests at both of
your events, right? And it wasthe reason that I'm sharing that
is that there was ademocratization of the
experience. Even the sommeliersin the room were just, they're
(24:46):
enjoying it with us. And the onething that actually Anna said to
me was was she's like, there areso many questions in this room.
She's like, when I have atasting with men, there are not
this many questions. Like, andthere was, there's such a sense
of curiosity, as opposed toauthority or pretending like you
(25:08):
have authority, or pretending,or hoping that no one figures
out that you don't haveauthority on this topic, right?
Like, which is very which isvery different, like in truly
matriarchal spaces, like, thereis a like, ask the question,
like, let's figure out how toget the answer. Let's, let's,
let's all share. How can we getas many people to have a lovely
experience and more knowledge?It's just, it's remarkable. It's
(25:32):
remarkable what you're doing.
Megumi Calver (25:33):
I think too wine, anything that you taste is so
much of it is your own personalexperience, like I had this wine
once. I think it wasn't somekind of orange wine from Georgia
or something, and to me ittasted like shiso, which is this
Japanese mint. But a normaltasting note would not say
(25:59):
shiso, right, because thetasting flavors are often very
western palate, yeah, European,yeah. And so if you have not
tasted some of these thingsbefore, like, I see all I'm
studying for my next exam rightnow, and all this, like cassis,
Bramble, black currant leaf. Idon't know what black currant
leaf tastes like, you know. Andso, and also, if you don't like
(26:24):
a wine, just because someoneelse says this is the best wine
ever doesn't mean you have tolike it. Doesn't mean you're
gonna smell or taste the samethings. And so I think that's
also another reason why I try toencourage the women at my events
to speak up and ask questions.And sometimes I'm like, really
kind of getting on them, like,come on. Like, you can, like,
raise your hand. Someone say,just stop
Indra Klavins (26:45):
lovingly you want, as someone who's been we
love it, we love theencouragement. We love the
encouragement. Need to bereminded, yeah, but
Megumi Calver (26:53):
you can do that. And I also want everyone to
know, like, you might be like, Itaste vanilla. Is that right?
Yes, great. I'm not gonna belike, No, you're wrong. What was
it? I think there was the AmyPoehler movie, wine country, is
maybe what it's called. Theguy's like, there are no wrong
answers. What do you smell? Whatdo you taste? And she says
something. He's like, No, you'rewrong.
(27:19):
Yeah, no, you don't want to seemlike an idiot, where you're
like, I taste citrus and lemons,and everyone's like, I don't
taste that. And you're like, Oh,well, I feel stupid now.
Indra Klavins (27:29):
So along this journey into what is now
entrepreneurship. So it's likethe corporate to sort of like
freelancing, back to littlecorporate now into this
entrepreneurship world. Havethere been any sort of surprises
for you, or things that you're,you know, like, because it's, I
think that what people, when Ientered in and started my LLC
(27:52):
and did all the things the hardwork was always in unexpected
places. Like, was like, right?It was like, I never thought
that would be the hard thing,you know, like, there's, there's
all sorts of twists and turnsand surprises. Like, were there
any sort of big surprises foryou, or things that you could
share for somebody who islooking to, you know, maybe
explore this, whether it's as aside hustle or as a passion
(28:14):
project or as something thatthey want to do. Like, what were
your things like into thisjourney that that lessons that
could be useful for others.
Megumi Calver (28:23):
My gosh, I don't know what the I'm doing. I mean,
never, yeah, I never thoughtthat I would be an entrepreneur.
My My ex, who I went to move tothe Bay Area for, and I was
surrounded by all these, youknow, tech froze. And I
literally was a, yeah, hustling.And I was in Dolores Park once,
(28:45):
and I heard two guys behind meliterally say, okay, startup
ideas go, you know, like, and Iwas like, I hate this. I never
want to have anything to do withthis. And so I really did not
think that. And like, Iespecially after, you know,
leaving acting, I was like nomore freelance life. I want my
nine to five. I want my w2 Iwant my PTO and my benefits. And
(29:09):
here I am. So I think partly theinability to it's like you have
to plan for some things, but youalso have to be accepting of the
fact that you you can plan, butstill not necessarily, that
things will go wrong, but other,other opportunities will come
up. And then, for me, the worstpart is just all the, like, the
(29:34):
finances. I'm very lucky that myfather in law is an accountant,
and so
Indra Klavins (29:39):
he that's my gain of my existence.
Megumi Calver (29:42):
Yeah, it's the worst. It's the worst, honestly,
that that is like getting intothe habit of every single week,
every other week, whatever itis, every month, minimum, just
going through everything andmaking sure I know what's coming
in and what's going on. Andwhere it's going and being
organized is the worst. I hatethat.
Indra Klavins (30:04):
Yeah, I think for me, what's been the hardest part
is not having, like, when you'redoing it on your own, you don't
necessarily, you have no one totalk to about the things, right?
Which is why a space like yourswas so I like, it's so funny.
When I walked in there, I'llconfess a little bit the first
one like I was, I was not at agreat point psychologically, and
(30:27):
I was like, Oh, do I have theaudacity to consider myself
somebody's worthy of being inthis room, right? And I walked
out being like, Yes, I am. And Igot to talk about things. And it
was more of like a in thatimprovised style, less Yes, and
there was more Yes, sanding ofwhat people were doing, whether
it was my story or someoneelse's story, and this, and
(30:47):
finding those communities, likethe one that you've created,
even if it's ephemeral for anight, that is a community, and
like lots of interestingconnections can come out of it.
So I think that that was mylike, I didn't realize quite
how, how daunting it can be whenyou're making every decision
yourself. Yeah, that is
Megumi Calver (31:06):
very true. I mean, it's kind of like with the
the accounting too, right? Likeit's it's hard and it's
annoying. It's not that hard,it's just annoying. But no,
there's no one else to do it. Ihave to do it. And also, you
know, unless you especially as asolopreneur, you're probably
working from home in this dayand age. And so I joined a co
(31:28):
working space just so thatsometimes I can go and, you
know, be around people otherthan my cats, for example. And
it turns out, my cats are notvery good at helping me make
decisions, so that's also tough,but yeah, being having, in some
ways, having to make all thedecisions myself is great,
(31:51):
because I get to do things theway I want to do them, but also
I have to make all thedecisions, and then future me
has to do things the way thatcurrent me
Indra Klavins (32:01):
decided to do them. I love that you're
thinking about yourself andlike, yeah, I have the same
thing. I'm like, Well, what willshe? Will she will she like me
for this or not? I don't know. Idon't
Megumi Calver (32:12):
I'm so many times I'm like, that's a future Megumi
problem, you know? And theneventually future Megumi is
like, Well, shit,
Indra Klavins (32:19):
you know, you have I'm going to be conscious
of time, and you are alwayswelcome to join me again,
because I adore you. You knowthis. I've said this in so many
different ways, in so manydifferent forums and here as
well, but anything that you wantto, that we didn't touch on,
that you want to, you know,share with people, because this
is you've given us so manyexamples of navigating the messy
(32:42):
middle of your career and howyou're moving in this world,
right? Is there anything elsethat you wanted to highlight
that we didn't touch on?
Megumi Calver (32:51):
I think one of the things that has been so
helpful to me is learning what Idon't like and what I don't
want. I think there's so muchfocus on what you want like
right from when you're a kid,everyone's like, what do you
want to be when you grow up? Andthere are so many things that I
learned from doing the things Idid of what I didn't want. I
(33:14):
learned that I did not want tobe, necessarily at an marketing
agency. I didn't like the agencywith the client type of life I
didn't like, you know, this typeof working environment. It can
be people, it can be industries.It can be locations, right?
Like, maybe you don't likeworking remote completely, and
you like a hybrid, whatever itis. I think there's so much of
(33:36):
so much emphasis on what do youlike and what do you want. And
so finding out what you don'tlike, and what you don't want is
also a great starting point tonarrow things down for you and
make it more specific.
Indra Klavins (33:49):
Love that it's, it's, and I this, we could dig
into this. It could be a wholenother episode, but like, but
you talk, but you talked aboutearlier. It's making you think
of something earlier is like theknowing when to quit, right? So
that fits into it as well, andlike Annie Duke's got a great
book on that, but it's just likethe and the willingness to
reinvent yourself. I just admireyou for that. I just admire you
(34:12):
for that. Thank you.
Megumi Calver (34:13):
I've been very, I don't know if I was very ever
conscious it was just sort ofhappening on a whim,
Indra Klavins (34:19):
but here we are. We usually don't realize it
until we're looking back in therearview mirror like, oh, that
happened. All right, that'scool. All right, I'm like, that
worked out. I had no idea thatthat's where that that was, what
was going on right now, I guesswe're doing this now. Yes, we're
doing this now. Megumi, howpeople? How can people find you?
Megumi Calver (34:40):
Um, you can find me on Instagram at Megumi
calver, and you can sign up formy newsletter weekly on
Wednesdays, you get wine tips,as well as some of my musings,
thoughts, rants on being a womanin corporate America, and that's
also where I'll post on myInstagram and in my new.
Newsletter about events and allother kinds of good things. And
(35:05):
my newsletter you can find atMerrill baby.com M, E, R, O, B,
E, B, e.com, nice.
Indra Klavins (35:13):
And if you follow me on anything, I'm sure that I
will give shout outs for this.She doesn't just do it in Kansas
City, like I said. She's come toNew York. She's done it in other
places. Even if you're not inthose locations, there is
something for you to gain out ofout of all the things that
you're offering. So I aminsanely grateful that you join
me for this conversation. I lookforward and I've got my I've got
(35:35):
my eyes peeled for the nextevent in New York being
announced, because, you know,I'm going to be in their front
row like cheering, because it isjust so amazing. You do such a
beautiful job. Thank you. And Iknow that people got something
out of this episode. I'mconfident, and I'm sure that
plenty of our listeners feltseen, heard, validated, like, Oh
(35:59):
me too. I had that happen, or Ifelt that too, so insanely
grateful. Thank you so much.
Megumi Calver (36:05):
Thank you so much, Indra. This was so lovely
to chat with you always so
Indra Klavins (36:09):
thank you see y'all next time in the messy
middle.
Thanks for taking time with usin the messy middle. Word of
Mouth remains most powerful wayfor people to find us. If this
episode sparked something foryou, we'd love it. If you'd
subscribe to the podcast on yourfavorite app, download a few
(36:29):
episodes and share it withsomeone else who's navigating
the in between. Do you haveideas for future episodes or
topics you'd like us to explore?You can find our feedback form
at the messy middle matters.com,or in the show notes, thank you
for joining us on this journey.This work is better when we do
it together, until next timeyou.
Hi. I'm Indra, and I'd like to welcome you to
the messy middle matters, wheremy friends and I explore all the
twists, turns and challengesthat arise in the messy middle
of work. Hey, everyone, welcomeback to the messy middle
matters, where we talk about allthings, about the messy middle
of work. I love to have theconversations that people
(00:26):
usually don't have out loud. Ifthey have them, they're in a
hushed conversation in ahallway, maybe in a supply
closet, or you're like, asking afriend over DM you're like, was
I crazy about that? But anyway,I am so insanely excited for
this conversation, because thisperson helped to transform my
(00:48):
2025 and me personally, becauseof the way that she walks and
moves in this world, deeplyadmire her for not just what
she's doing, but how she's doingand how she creates spaces that
are so supportive and you and sogenerous in the way that she
does it. Welcome magumi,
Megumi Calver (01:07):
thank you so much. That was such a kind
glowing intro. Oh my gosh.
Indra Klavins (01:13):
Well earned. Well, well, well earned. I'm
genuinely grateful that I've hadthe pleasure of crossing paths
with you. Why don't you telleverybody a little bit about
yourself? So I
Megumi Calver (01:26):
grew up in Tokyo, Japan. My parents are still
there. I'm half Japanese andsort of have flitted around the
coasts, went to New York forcollege, then went to San
Francisco, LA and then am now inKansas City with my husband. And
I have a background inmarketing, but I've also dabbled
(01:49):
in production. I spent a fewyears pursuing acting, and was
hosting for a little bit, andnow I am building marrow baby,
which is a wine fueled eventsand media.
Indra Klavins (02:06):
I'm like, I got, I've got to bring my class with
me for this one. It's cranberryjuice, but still, it works. It
works. It's never too early forwine, but, you know, so, yeah,
can you? Can you pronounce thatone more time? I think I may
have stepped on it. Miro, Bebemarrow, baby, Yes, yep,
fantastic. And, like, I lovethis from your site, and we'll
(02:27):
talk about so back in August, amutual of ours put out this
alert about a event that theywere helping you host around
wine women and wisdom. And I sawit, I'm like, ooh, that's
interesting. It's it smells,it's it just felt different,
right? And what I love from yourwebsite that describes that I
(02:51):
think you beautifullyencapsulated in words, women
don't need more advice. Theyneed more rooms where they can
show up fully, where ambitionand femininity can coexist, and
where confidence is poured asgenerously as the wine, and that
is what you do. And so went toyour event in August. Loved it.
It totally it like it rewired mybrain in really interesting
(03:14):
ways. And then went to yourevent in December, and we'll
talk about upcoming, someupcoming events, maybe let the
end of this. But I was sodelighted, because I was, I was,
I told you that that night. I'mlike, I was a little I was like,
Oh, I'm like, I really hope thatwasn't just lightning in a
bottle. I hope that she's goingto be able to pull it off again.
(03:35):
I mean, I had faith, but ithappened. It happened. And you
are remarkable, remarkable,remarkable at the way that you
create spaces. But like thatdidn't come out of nowhere, that
came out of a career journey anda lot of things that you've
done. So, you know, I think theone thing that you said when we
were talking about, like, whatwe might talk about on the
(03:56):
podcast, you know, the line thatsticks out is the career that
made sense until it didn'tright. Do you mind digging into
a little bit more about yourjourney? Yeah, I
Megumi Calver (04:07):
mean, like I said, I've sort of done the
whole career pivot thing before.It was trendy. I feel like
nowadays, everyone's like, Oh,you just pivot and you do a
different industry, or you do adifferent role, and that was not
a thing. No, when I had startedout my career, I started doing
marketing, like I said, atShowtime Networks, actually in
(04:30):
New York. And the reason I left,I loved the job had, well, had
to leave because I followed anex boyfriend to the Bay Area. He
got a job at a startup. So I gota job at an agency doing
marketing for a tech company,and I was just miserable, I
think partly, I miss my friendsin New York, but the work was
(04:52):
still marketing, but very, verydifferent doing, you know,
entertainment versus tech, and Iwas surrounded by all these
tech. People, and it was also amuch smaller team. And so I
think all of the differentthings combined made me feel
really unfulfilled and notmotivated. And I somehow
(05:13):
randomly ended up in an actingclass, and it was supposed to
just be like a hobby or a littlefun, creative thing to do, yeah,
and then the next thing youknow, to my parents, horror, I
am quitting my job, and I'mlike, I'm gonna be an actor. My
parents are like, is this like alittle thing you're gonna do
while you study for your MBA?
Indra Klavins (05:37):
That sounds like that? Sounds like a very natural
response that they would everlike, a typical response that a
parent would have, yeah, yes,
Megumi Calver (05:44):
but I think partly it was just nothing. It
was something I've never donebefore. I had done, you know, I
graduated from college in threeyears, and I interned every
semester and summer, and I wasworking, and all of a sudden I
just wanted to blow it all up, Iguess. And so that is what took
me to LA and I was, you know,obviously, was still working as
(06:07):
a server and at a wine store andso on and so forth, doing this
little starving artist thing andbooking just enough acting work
to keep me going until Irealized that the whole
freelance life of it all, it isextreme. Freelancing is what I
like to call acting, and it'salso very last minute, you'll
(06:30):
get a call from your agent oryour manager saying, Hey, can
you get to an audition on theother side of town in three
hours? And then you might, ifyou had a call back, the
callback audition is the nextday, and then you might be
shooting in Ohio next week. I amsuch a planner is that it's so
last minute, even forcommercials or anything. I'm
like, I worked in marketing. Youguys have been planning this
(06:51):
commercial for weeks.
Indra Klavins (06:54):
Sometimes, you
Megumi Calver (06:56):
know, the holiday commercial has to get shot. Why
Are you auditioning it tomorrowto shoot next week, but I just I
couldn't do that anymore. Andalso thinking ahead about, you
know, do I want to have afamily? And let's say I do
become very, very successful.It's very long days and hours on
sets, a lot of time away fromhome. And I was like, You know
(07:18):
what? I don't like that lifeeither, and I'm very grateful
for what acting taught me. I'mvery grateful for the all the
opportunities I had working inrelation to wine, and obviously
that has sort of helped put mewhere I am today. So for all of
that, I'm very grateful as muchas I liked to complain about my
(07:38):
you know, crazy la customerswhen I was a server, but,
Indra Klavins (07:43):
but So during those like, during that phase of
that transformation, like thatcan be so disorienting, right?
And it can be so like, I'vefound that when I've gone
through shifts of change, likethe structures that serve the
person who I was before, or thetools that serve me, the person
that I was before, didn't alwayssupport me as I was becoming, or
(08:05):
became this next thing thatmaybe, maybe short term, maybe
long term, who the heck knows,what is does anything? Did you
have anything that, actually,that you were able to like
leverage, whether it was a bookor a practice or anything, or
was it just something innatelyin you? You're like, No, I'm
just going to do this. A Oh,
Megumi Calver (08:22):
wait, I grew up as a national figure skater, and
Lee, I was, yes, a nationallycompetitive figure skater in
Japan. And then I did the wholeviolin and piano, and I was in,
this is so geeky, but I was inconcert choir and glee club, or
(08:43):
Glee choir, whatever it wascalled, and two acapella groups
in high school, I was such anerd, and I did a lot of dance
and so sort of that sort ofperformance side. I always
thought of myself as notcreative, because I'm not very
good at, like, the visual arts.But in other ways, I was
creative. Yeah, so that sort ofwas there in terms of the
(09:06):
performance and acting, butpublic speaking, though, was
terrifying. Okay, so I thinkthat was also why my parents
were surprised, because theywere like, you're usually so
quiet you don't want to dopublic speaking, but you want to
be on a stage and yell and cry,like, what are you doing?
Indra Klavins (09:25):
Funny, how we can surprise our parents? So my a, I
used to figure skate as a kid. Inever landed my axle. I got that
far, but I was, I was never, Iwas never, you know, so when you
said that, I'm like, oh mygoodness, we could talk about
that too. But when my big whereI surprised my parents was my
what I did not want to go tocollege at all, like, because,
because I was, I had no ideawhat I wanted to do with my
life. I'm like, why would Iwaste my my time, your money on
(09:49):
going to college? If I'm notsure my mother's like, you're
going to go, it's until youfigure out what you want to do.
You're going now. I'm like,Okay, fine. My freshman year at
Rutgers, I call my mother. I go,I figured out what I want to do.
I want to be a massagetherapist. She's like, that's
lovely, sweetheart. Go get yourdegree. But beyond that, which
she was surprised by, she'slike, You, I was not a I, my
(10:12):
mother perceived me as not acuddly child, right? So, like,
this non cuddly child is goingto be touching human. Be like
she it was just such a mind. Solike you were all, like, talking
out loud, and yeah, I love that.I love that.
Megumi Calver (10:24):
So funny. You know what my grandma told me
once, and this is when I wasmuch younger, too, maybe not
even high school. Anyway, itdoesn't matter, but she told me
that college is where you go tostudy what you want to study
whatever you're interested in,and grad school is where you go
to study what you need to studyfor your work. And I always
(10:48):
just, I don't know if that'sactually today, in 2025 or 2026
sorry if that's still relevant,but I kind of took that to
heart. And my Yeah, like mycollege study has very little to
do with what I do now, but I Isort of built my career
experience outside of it, yeah,internships and whatnot.
Indra Klavins (11:10):
Yeah, that's so interesting, and I can see how
that used to be true, and Heavenonly knows what's true in
academia these days. Yeah. Okay,so you're in LA, you're an
actor. Yes, we know we have asense of where you land now from
we talked about earlier, how didyou get from LA to doing what
you're doing today?
Megumi Calver (11:31):
Oh my gosh, the journey from going into acting
and leaving acting was reallytough, because I felt like it
was such a big risk to be like,I'm quitting my job and I'm
going into acting, and then tobe like, just kidding, I'm
quitting acting and I'm goingback into marketing. And so I
(11:54):
felt like, was I just giving up?All my acting friends were like,
Oh, you're quitting. And I'mlike, No, I'm not quitting. I
mean, yes, I'm quitting, but I'mnot quitting. It's not for me
anymore. And so honestly, thequitting to go into acting was
(12:14):
easy, or, sorry, yes, quittingmy marketing job to go into
acting, I feel like, was almosteasier than having to go back in
also, because, you know, goingback into the corporate world, I
have this, what, two, three yeargap where I kind of did some
freelance marketing, but not alot. Luckily, I was able to get
(12:35):
a job in LA at a marketing andPR firm, and I started March 1,
2020, so I was in the office oneweek before everything shut
down. So that could not havebeen better timing.
Indra Klavins (12:49):
And you got your computer. I still remember
trying to get new hires theircomputers as all that was going
down. Oh my goodness, yeah,
Megumi Calver (12:56):
that was it was crazy town. And from there I my
boss was a little much, shall wesay. And I found, and it was a
small team too. I will say thatone of my colleagues, again,
(13:19):
very small team, one of mycolleagues had to go to the
emergency room for, like, somekind of heart condition, and was
in the hospital for a few days.He not checked out. I don't know
what you check out of thehospital. He was released, or
Indra Klavins (13:35):
whatever you release your Yeah. Release,
that's much Yes. Release, he wasreleased, released from
discharge, discharge where wewere looking for
Megumi Calver (13:47):
he was discharged from the hospital, and that
afternoon, he was back online.And my boss was like, Oh, thank
God, you're back. It was like,anyways,
Indra Klavins (13:58):
that lesson, that story, is probably so resonant
to so many people, wild. It'swild. How companies and people
in companies just ignoresomething like that. It's like
moving on wild.
Megumi Calver (14:14):
So I ended up getting shingles from that
company, boss, I should say. Andthen I ended up at a was trying
to get out, found my way into astartup where I was the first
employee. So again, anothersmall team, and I was there for
two to three years, two and ahalf years, maybe, or so I can't
(14:35):
remember exactly, was alsorealizing that was also not a
fit for me. I was the only womanin a team of men for the most
part, and there was a lot ofconflict in within the team, and
we were kind of working crazyhours sometimes. And my. My
(15:00):
husband and I were thinkingabout moving to Kansas City. He
grew up here, and his family ishere, and LA is, you know, so
expensive, and they would notlet me work remote. Essentially
zero work from home, sosometimes we would have to go in
Monday through Saturday inperson, so I'm driving an hour
(15:20):
each way. And I was like, Idon't think I can do this
anymore. Amongst other issues, Ithink after I quit, fired
someone, and that person quitafter two months. Not a you
problem. There's your evidence,not a me. It was not a problem.
Yeah. And so I just needed tomake money, and so I kind of
(15:43):
randomly fell into freelance butsort of during that time, while
I was still at the startup, Iactually had a personal finance
podcast for millennial women,and they when they hired me, the
startup hired me, they weregoing to do fundraising, and
they're like, We don't wantpeople to Google you or Google
the company, and see that you'redoing something else you need to
(16:05):
look like you're 100% dedicatedto the startup. So I was like,
for sure, whatever. So I quit mypodcast. But at some point I
missed, I didn't miss personalfinance. I didn't talk about I
didn't miss talking aboutfinance, but I missed especially
being in such a male dominatedspace. It was a male dominated
industry. Dominated industry. Ireally missed talking to women
(16:27):
and helping women. And so I waslike, instead of personal
finance, why don't I start goingat it through my real passion?
Why? And so I started studyingwine. And kind of instead of
doing a podcast, which, as youknow, is a lot of work, it's a
lot of work, a lot of work, so Istarted with a newsletter, and
(16:52):
it kind of just started there ofjust, how can I talk to more
women? Help women also study anddrink more wine,
Indra Klavins (17:01):
yeah, yeah. And so let's talk about how you
create your events, right? Ifyou don't mind, because, like,
the environment even, even goingup to the event like, and I've
got, like, you, I can, I'm, Idon't know if it was in foreign
by but you're following a lot ofthe similar steps that, like
Priya Parker talks about in herbook, in the art of gathering,
(17:23):
you know, like it's I felt, andit might have come organically
and naturally for you, but it'sI felt the stage being set long
before I showed up there, themoment I walked in the door, it
was just it was so intentional.Like, everything that you're
doing is intentional, whetherit's the sommelier that you're
(17:43):
choosing to partner with thefood that's there, the way that
you are through, the way thatyour invitations are set up, the
people that you're curating tobe in attendance. How did that
all come about?
Megumi Calver (17:57):
I so it started as the newsletter, and then I
took a break from thenewsletter. Honestly, it was
supposed to be a holiday break,and it ended up being a year and
a half long break. And partlythis was still when I was at the
startup. We didn't know if wewere moving or not. I was trying
to figure out how to leave. Andthen I kind of just fell into
freelance marketing life, and Istill wanted to do something
(18:23):
with wine and women. And I hadmet a few different women, wine
makers, women Wine Owners, andthey were like, if you ever want
to do a tasting, let me know.And I love event planning. I
just love planning, I think isreally the problem. And so I was
(18:44):
like, oh, plan an event. It'llbe great. So kind of out of
nowhere, literally, the nightbefore we moved from LA to
Kansas City. So my husband'slike, packing things up. Most of
our stuff is gone in trucks onthe way to or already arrived in
Kansas City, and I'm runningaround hosting this wine event
(19:07):
for women. So I did my first onein LA and was able to gather a
bunch of founders and CEOs and awoman wine importer, Sheila, who
you met at the last event, andsome of her winemakers came, and
I read, as you mentioned, theart of gathering, and wanted to
(19:28):
make sure that even if it wasn'tsome super high budget event,
yeah, it still felt veryintentional, and the women would
feel comfortable, open safe assoon as they walked in the door,
(19:52):
that even if it wasn't like itwas high high touch, even if it
wasn't necessarily high end inthe modest. Very sense, and I
wanted to make sure everyone wasaware of what was going to
happen at the event. So to yourpoint, you know, making sure the
stage is set before they walk inthe door for LA, where parking
(20:13):
is always such an issue, I gaveeveryone, like, very specific
parking instructions. Pleasearrive on time. This is what
we're gonna do, this is whatyou're gonna get. This is the
time we will be there. And it'sreally the art of gathering. Was
very, very helpful for me, butI'm also just such a control
freak, and so I think that helpsas well. And I am so so done of
(20:39):
working with can I say on here?Please do. Please do. I was so
tired of working with thesefriggin at my previous companies
that I wanted to make sure thatthis was a place where there
were no yeah And sure, there'salways going to be someone who's
(20:59):
chats more than someone else, ortalks more. But I try to make it
very, very clear, of like, we'reall here. We're not here to sell
to each other. You're not hereto pitch yourself or your
services or your business orwhatever. You're here to, yes,
be be open and meet otherpeople, talk to other people,
but also listen to other people,
Indra Klavins (21:20):
and that's exactly what happens. It's so
funny. And when you're inconversation with really
interesting, engaged people, Iwas just running around like,
I'm like, I would love for youto be in my podcast. And it
wasn't as a pitch, it was moreas a like, I love the world
needs more of what's happeningin this room, right? Because
what's there in both of therooms that I've been with you,
(21:44):
there's this huge sense ofcuriosity. There's a sense of
play. That's really, I find thatthat was probably the most
wonderful invitation. You know,it happened in both of them.
Like, what do you smell in thislike, Oh, I smell a leather
jacket. I smell a bit of moth,and it was like there were no
wrong answers. And the fact thatwe were invited to not worry
(22:06):
about a playbook that wascreated by somebody somewhere
along the way about how youshould experience wine, and we
were just experiencing wine andfood and conversation in just a
an authentic, playful way, notchildish, playful, very, very
different. And it was just so,so remarkable, so remarkable.
Megumi Calver (22:31):
I think the thing with wine, right? The reason
like, Okay, you get a can ofbeer and you can drink that by
yourself, right? It's just acan. You can get a cocktail. You
can also drink that by yourself.A wine bottle is pretty big. I'm
not saying I have never drunk abottle by myself. It's certainly
(22:51):
possible, so I've heard but forthe most I remember the bottle.
I mean, I remember the bottlethat I had by myself, but for
the most part, it's meant to beshared, right? Like you hear in
Italy, oh, this is just tablewine, because it's wine that's
on the table for everyone aroundthe table to be drinking and
sharing. And so I think for me,especially with the events, wine
(23:16):
is a great way to bring peopletogether to have that shared
experience. Obviously, thesocial lubrication of alcohol
also helps. And I think startingoff with wine too. Wine can feel
so intimidating. It's purposelyseen as a snobby, pretentious
(23:38):
thing. There's all these likefancy words around it, but if we
can all just come in to theroom, gather together, share a
glass of wine, kind of forgetall that snootiness and just
say, Oh, this is what I smell ortaste, or what does that mean,
right? Like, we had an orangewine at the December event, and
(23:59):
someone was like, I don'tunderstand what that means. I
hear about orange wine, but whatorange wine, but what actually
is orange wine and being able totalk about that so that everyone
starts off with a little bit ofa learning experience and not
again in a condescending, I'mgoing to teach you kind of way,
but we're all just being open toand curious. I think that also
(24:20):
helps. And I get to drink wine,which is always a win, win.
Yeah.
Indra Klavins (24:25):
And as you're saying, I didn't clock this
until just now in both of theevents, I happened to wind up
talking to other sommeliers whowere there as guests at both of
your events, right? And it wasthe reason that I'm sharing that
is that there was ademocratization of the
experience. Even the sommeliersin the room were just, they're
(24:46):
enjoying it with us. And the onething that actually Anna said to
me was was she's like, there areso many questions in this room.
She's like, when I have atasting with men, there are not
this many questions. Like, andthere was, there's such a sense
of curiosity, as opposed toauthority or pretending like you
(25:08):
have authority, or pretending,or hoping that no one figures
out that you don't haveauthority on this topic, right?
Like, which is very which isvery different, like in truly
matriarchal spaces, like, thereis a like, ask the question,
like, let's figure out how toget the answer. Let's, let's,
let's all share. How can we getas many people to have a lovely
experience and more knowledge?It's just, it's remarkable. It's
(25:32):
remarkable what you're doing.
Megumi Calver (25:33):
I think too wine, anything that you taste is so
much of it is your own personalexperience, like I had this wine
once. I think it wasn't somekind of orange wine from Georgia
or something, and to me ittasted like shiso, which is this
Japanese mint. But a normaltasting note would not say
(25:59):
shiso, right, because thetasting flavors are often very
western palate, yeah, European,yeah. And so if you have not
tasted some of these thingsbefore, like, I see all I'm
studying for my next exam rightnow, and all this, like cassis,
Bramble, black currant leaf. Idon't know what black currant
leaf tastes like, you know. Andso, and also, if you don't like
(26:24):
a wine, just because someoneelse says this is the best wine
ever doesn't mean you have tolike it. Doesn't mean you're
gonna smell or taste the samethings. And so I think that's
also another reason why I try toencourage the women at my events
to speak up and ask questions.And sometimes I'm like, really
kind of getting on them, like,come on. Like, you can, like,
raise your hand. Someone say,just stop
Indra Klavins (26:45):
lovingly you want, as someone who's been we
love it, we love theencouragement. We love the
encouragement. Need to bereminded, yeah, but
Megumi Calver (26:53):
you can do that. And I also want everyone to
know, like, you might be like, Itaste vanilla. Is that right?
Yes, great. I'm not gonna belike, No, you're wrong. What was
it? I think there was the AmyPoehler movie, wine country, is
maybe what it's called. Theguy's like, there are no wrong
answers. What do you smell? Whatdo you taste? And she says
something. He's like, No, you'rewrong.
(27:19):
Yeah, no, you don't want to seemlike an idiot, where you're
like, I taste citrus and lemons,and everyone's like, I don't
taste that. And you're like, Oh,well, I feel stupid now.
Indra Klavins (27:29):
So along this journey into what is now
entrepreneurship. So it's likethe corporate to sort of like
freelancing, back to littlecorporate now into this
entrepreneurship world. Havethere been any sort of surprises
for you, or things that you're,you know, like, because it's, I
think that what people, when Ientered in and started my LLC
(27:52):
and did all the things the hardwork was always in unexpected
places. Like, was like, right?It was like, I never thought
that would be the hard thing,you know, like, there's, there's
all sorts of twists and turnsand surprises. Like, were there
any sort of big surprises foryou, or things that you could
share for somebody who islooking to, you know, maybe
explore this, whether it's as aside hustle or as a passion
(28:14):
project or as something thatthey want to do. Like, what were
your things like into thisjourney that that lessons that
could be useful for others.
Megumi Calver (28:23):
My gosh, I don't know what the I'm doing. I mean,
never, yeah, I never thoughtthat I would be an entrepreneur.
My My ex, who I went to move tothe Bay Area for, and I was
surrounded by all these, youknow, tech froze. And I
literally was a, yeah, hustling.And I was in Dolores Park once,
(28:45):
and I heard two guys behind meliterally say, okay, startup
ideas go, you know, like, and Iwas like, I hate this. I never
want to have anything to do withthis. And so I really did not
think that. And like, Iespecially after, you know,
leaving acting, I was like nomore freelance life. I want my
nine to five. I want my w2 Iwant my PTO and my benefits. And
(29:09):
here I am. So I think partly theinability to it's like you have
to plan for some things, but youalso have to be accepting of the
fact that you you can plan, butstill not necessarily, that
things will go wrong, but other,other opportunities will come
up. And then, for me, the worstpart is just all the, like, the
(29:34):
finances. I'm very lucky that myfather in law is an accountant,
and so
Indra Klavins (29:39):
he that's my gain of my existence.
Megumi Calver (29:42):
Yeah, it's the worst. It's the worst, honestly,
that that is like getting intothe habit of every single week,
every other week, whatever itis, every month, minimum, just
going through everything andmaking sure I know what's coming
in and what's going on. Andwhere it's going and being
organized is the worst. I hatethat.
Indra Klavins (30:04):
Yeah, I think for me, what's been the hardest part
is not having, like, when you'redoing it on your own, you don't
necessarily, you have no one totalk to about the things, right?
Which is why a space like yourswas so I like, it's so funny.
When I walked in there, I'llconfess a little bit the first
one like I was, I was not at agreat point psychologically, and
(30:27):
I was like, Oh, do I have theaudacity to consider myself
somebody's worthy of being inthis room, right? And I walked
out being like, Yes, I am. And Igot to talk about things. And it
was more of like a in thatimprovised style, less Yes, and
there was more Yes, sanding ofwhat people were doing, whether
it was my story or someoneelse's story, and this, and
(30:47):
finding those communities, likethe one that you've created,
even if it's ephemeral for anight, that is a community, and
like lots of interestingconnections can come out of it.
So I think that that was mylike, I didn't realize quite
how, how daunting it can be whenyou're making every decision
yourself. Yeah, that is
Megumi Calver (31:06):
very true. I mean, it's kind of like with the
the accounting too, right? Likeit's it's hard and it's
annoying. It's not that hard,it's just annoying. But no,
there's no one else to do it. Ihave to do it. And also, you
know, unless you especially as asolopreneur, you're probably
working from home in this dayand age. And so I joined a co
(31:28):
working space just so thatsometimes I can go and, you
know, be around people otherthan my cats, for example. And
it turns out, my cats are notvery good at helping me make
decisions, so that's also tough,but yeah, being having, in some
ways, having to make all thedecisions myself is great,
(31:51):
because I get to do things theway I want to do them, but also
I have to make all thedecisions, and then future me
has to do things the way thatcurrent me
Indra Klavins (32:01):
decided to do them. I love that you're
thinking about yourself andlike, yeah, I have the same
thing. I'm like, Well, what willshe? Will she will she like me
for this or not? I don't know. Idon't
Megumi Calver (32:12):
I'm so many times I'm like, that's a future Megumi
problem, you know? And theneventually future Megumi is
like, Well, shit,
Indra Klavins (32:19):
you know, you have I'm going to be conscious
of time, and you are alwayswelcome to join me again,
because I adore you. You knowthis. I've said this in so many
different ways, in so manydifferent forums and here as
well, but anything that you wantto, that we didn't touch on,
that you want to, you know,share with people, because this
is you've given us so manyexamples of navigating the messy
(32:42):
middle of your career and howyou're moving in this world,
right? Is there anything elsethat you wanted to highlight
that we didn't touch on?
Megumi Calver (32:51):
I think one of the things that has been so
helpful to me is learning what Idon't like and what I don't
want. I think there's so muchfocus on what you want like
right from when you're a kid,everyone's like, what do you
want to be when you grow up? Andthere are so many things that I
learned from doing the things Idid of what I didn't want. I
(33:14):
learned that I did not want tobe, necessarily at an marketing
agency. I didn't like the agencywith the client type of life I
didn't like, you know, this typeof working environment. It can
be people, it can be industries.It can be locations, right?
Like, maybe you don't likeworking remote completely, and
you like a hybrid, whatever itis. I think there's so much of
(33:36):
so much emphasis on what do youlike and what do you want. And
so finding out what you don'tlike, and what you don't want is
also a great starting point tonarrow things down for you and
make it more specific.
Indra Klavins (33:49):
Love that it's, it's, and I this, we could dig
into this. It could be a wholenother episode, but like, but
you talk, but you talked aboutearlier. It's making you think
of something earlier is like theknowing when to quit, right? So
that fits into it as well, andlike Annie Duke's got a great
book on that, but it's just likethe and the willingness to
reinvent yourself. I just admireyou for that. I just admire you
(34:12):
for that. Thank you.
Megumi Calver (34:13):
I've been very, I don't know if I was very ever
conscious it was just sort ofhappening on a whim,
Indra Klavins (34:19):
but here we are. We usually don't realize it
until we're looking back in therearview mirror like, oh, that
happened. All right, that'scool. All right, I'm like, that
worked out. I had no idea thatthat's where that that was, what
was going on right now, I guesswe're doing this now. Yes, we're
doing this now. Megumi, howpeople? How can people find you?
Megumi Calver (34:40):
Um, you can find me on Instagram at Megumi
calver, and you can sign up formy newsletter weekly on
Wednesdays, you get wine tips,as well as some of my musings,
thoughts, rants on being a womanin corporate America, and that's
also where I'll post on myInstagram and in my new.
Newsletter about events and allother kinds of good things. And
(35:05):
my newsletter you can find atMerrill baby.com M, E, R, O, B,
E, B, e.com, nice.
Indra Klavins (35:13):
And if you follow me on anything, I'm sure that I
will give shout outs for this.She doesn't just do it in Kansas
City, like I said. She's come toNew York. She's done it in other
places. Even if you're not inthose locations, there is
something for you to gain out ofout of all the things that
you're offering. So I aminsanely grateful that you join
me for this conversation. I lookforward and I've got my I've got
(35:35):
my eyes peeled for the nextevent in New York being
announced, because, you know,I'm going to be in their front
row like cheering, because it isjust so amazing. You do such a
beautiful job. Thank you. And Iknow that people got something
out of this episode. I'mconfident, and I'm sure that
plenty of our listeners feltseen, heard, validated, like, Oh
(35:59):
me too. I had that happen, or Ifelt that too, so insanely
grateful. Thank you so much.
Megumi Calver (36:05):
Thank you so much, Indra. This was so lovely
to chat with you always so
Indra Klavins (36:09):
thank you see y'all next time in the messy
middle.
Thanks for taking time with usin the messy middle. Word of
Mouth remains most powerful wayfor people to find us. If this
episode sparked something foryou, we'd love it. If you'd
subscribe to the podcast on yourfavorite app, download a few
(36:29):
episodes and share it withsomeone else who's navigating
the in between. Do you haveideas for future episodes or
topics you'd like us to explore?You can find our feedback form
at the messy middle matters.com,or in the show notes, thank you
for joining us on this journey.This work is better when we do
it together, until next timeyou.
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