March 18, 2026 • 32 mins
In this episode, Indra and Ana Fabiano explore the intricate journey of Ana's career in the wine industry, her deep connection to the Rioja region, and the launch of her new venture, Rioja Holistic Home. They discuss the importance of passion, authenticity, and building trust with craftspeople, especially in a traditionally male-dominated industry. The conversation highlights the shift towards sustainability and intentional living, emphasizing the value of community and patience in navigating the 'messy middle' of personal and professional growth.
Takeaways
- Let your passion guide you in your career.
- Authenticity is crucial in building connections.
- Rioja represents more than just wine; it's a cultural experience.
- Building trust with craftspeople requires respect and dedication.
- The wine industry is becoming more inclusive of women.
- Intentional living can enhance well-being and connection.
- Sustainability is a growing focus in consumer choices.
- The messy middle is a vital part of any journey.
- Patience is essential when navigating challenges.
- Community support is key to success in business.
More from Ana Fabiano
- Rioja Holistic Home on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riojaholistichome/
- Ana’s Book: https://www.anafabiano.com/riojabook
- Ana’s Website: https://www.anafabiano.com/
- Ana’s on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anafabianorioja
- Ana Fabiano on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/anafabiano/
More from Indra and The Messy Middle Matters
- Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/
- Indra’s Blog: https://peopleprocessthings.substack.com
- The Messy Middle Matters on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themessymiddlematters/
- Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: https://messymiddlematters.com/feedback
- The Messy Middle Matters Merch https://messymiddlemerch.com
Keywords
career paths, authenticity, Rioja, wine industry, craftspeople, sustainability, holistic living, intentionality, women in business, personal growth
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Indra Klavins (00:05):
Indra. Hi. I'm Indra, and I'd like to welcome
you to the messy middle matters,where my friends and I explore
all the twists, turns andchallenges that arise in the
messy middle of work. Hieveryone. Welcome back to the
messy middle matters. Today is asuper exciting day. One of the
things that I've heard from manyfolks, especially women, is
(00:26):
hearing the career paths and thejourneys that people have gone
through and how they got towhere they landed, like did it?
Was it a straight path? Was ittwisty? Was it turny? Did it go
through a few vineyards? Alittle teaser on this one about
what we're going to be talkingabout today and the journey that
we're going to get to learnabout. So Anna, so nice. I'm so
(00:47):
glad that I met you. I'm so gladthat you're joining me. And
welcome, welcome, welcome,welcome. Gracias.
Ana Fabiano (00:55):
Thank you. That was wonderful to be here. Indra,
really.
Indra Klavins (00:58):
Why don't you tell everybody a little bit
about yourself,
Unknown (01:02):
about myself? Well, I'm a professional. I've been a
professional in the space offood and wines from Spain for
decades, and that took me fromworking for the Embassy of Spain
in their trade office tocreating my own boutique public
relations and promotions andpromotions agency to writing a
(01:23):
book, to working for the winegovernment of Rioja and
authoring their business planfor the Trade Division for the
US, to then creating my ownplatform, and now to creating A
product based business forcurated special, special pieces
from Rioja that some which arein flight right now. So that's,
(01:47):
that's my specific journey.
Indra Klavins (01:50):
Yeah. So, you know, like, let's start at the
beginning. Like, I, how does,how does someone wind up
becoming the ambassador for aregion of such beautiful,
delicious, wine like that, thatis that something that you
wanted to do? Is it somethingthat you happened upon? Yeah, I
would love to hear a little bit
Unknown (02:08):
about that. Think, I think one of the big pieces that
I always try to share, and Ialways found, but let your
passion guide you, and theneverything else can fall into
place, and some of those bigstrides that we have to take
professionally, they might notnecessarily land exactly where
(02:31):
we think we're going, but if youhave these guiding forces of
Passion authenticity, it reallydoes take you to incredible
places, and I see this withmentees that I've had, or
colleagues, and also also withmyself. I studied in Spain
(02:52):
during the transition todemocracy, and I think that's a
topic globally we all canconnect with on some level right
now, right? And it was a verypulsating, moving, moving time,
and many of the people therewere still remembered and lived
through a very brutal but shortlived Spanish Civil War, so to
(03:16):
really experience their feelingsand their life and what they
had, it was, it was very movingfor me. It was captivating time
to experience it. And thatreally energized me to be part
of this, privatizing a wholenation and really lifting a
whole nation. And that was adriving force for for me to
(03:41):
pursue this, this passion,wanting to participate that in
the latter part of the 20thcentury. And it's, it's, you
know, I think everything toIndra comes 360 you know, we can
have our paths. And it's areally beautiful thing to see
how something that we might haveexperienced at a different
period of our life, whether itbe in our childhood or our
(04:03):
teenage years, or in adulthoodor in childbearing years, or
what they may be, it does come360 because that experience, for
me, is now manifesting throughincredible ceramic pieces of art
that is from a ceramics who ispart of this artistic movement
(04:24):
of the transition to democracyin the latter part of the 20th
century. So it's, it's, it'snice to see how this came full
circle, you know, decades later.
Indra Klavins (04:34):
Yeah, I love, I love the fact that you, I mean,
Rio hot is the through line toyour story, right? It is, or
it's one of the through lines toyour story.
Unknown (04:43):
Yeah, it's a big one. It's definitely a big one.
Because when I started mycareer, it was in Spain. There
was cava, which are sparklingmines made in the same way as
the champagnes or the methodoshop, and was wines, and there
were Sherry, wines which arefortified. Wines from southern
Spain. There was Rioja, many ofthese other delicious, fabulous
(05:05):
regions that have emerged sincethe late 1980s just really
weren't, weren't on the charts.So I've kind of grown up with
Rio the region and I've kind ofgrown up together. So yeah, a
nice journey.
Indra Klavins (05:21):
Yeah. And I you had, I had the pleasure, I had
the pleasure of getting apreview of the trailer for our
Rioja holistic home, which we'lltalk about, and much more. But
what the the thing that I tookaway from it, like, by the end
of it, I was at three minuteslong that this, that you had,
this, this, yes.
Unknown (05:40):
237 Yeah. 237 Yep. That's good. That's very close.
That's just
Indra Klavins (05:45):
my internal you know, my metric is okay, but it
was just so beautiful. And, youknow, just to paint the picture
for everyone, it's a beautifulintroduction to the Rioja
region. It's a wonderfulintroduction to you why you're,
why you are as well versed inthe region as you are, why you
(06:06):
are so connected to the regionthat you are, and how you know
your history is about elevatingthe winemakers of the region,
and now you're elevating all thecraftspeople, not just the
winemakers. And that is just, itwas, it's such a beautiful
thing, and I cannot wait for theworld to learn more about it.
Unknown (06:27):
Thank you. Thank you so much. I think, I think when
authenticity reigns, you know,it just anything that's
authentic can't be fabricated.It can't be reproduced. And
that, I think it really is, isof heightened interest with a
(06:47):
lot of what's happening now inmany different parts of the
world and many differentindustries. So that's really
where we're rooted.
Indra Klavins (06:56):
Yeah, and you know, how did you we can go
backwards and forwards inhistory, as we're talking about
the conversation, like, I just,I've, there's so many places
that I want to go with you. Butwhat was, what was the seed of
the idea for Rioja, holistichome, like, what was the moment
where you're like, oh, I want toexplore something different.
Because we are, we witheverything that is going on in
(07:19):
the world. So many people arecontemplating, exploring, taking
on new journeys, because theworld as we understood it is
definitely not the world thatwe're living in now, which opens
up so many new possibilities.Like, what was the what was your
moment when you're like, oh, Iwant to make a switch.
Unknown (07:39):
Yeah, that's that's a wonderful question. It really,
in the wine business, really, alot of people that become master
sommelier or master of wine,that kind of work horizontally.
So they have to study many, manydifferent regions. Okay? And my
book, the wine region of Rioja,was the first book by a US
(08:01):
publisher about the wine region.And when I began preparing for
that work, I got my masterycertification from the Cervantes
Institute, which is the Ministryof Education, and they have a
satellite office here in NewYork. And I knew that to embark
on the research for the book,there will be many people that I
needed to get to that didn'tnecessarily speak English. And
(08:24):
looking back again, during theera of fascism, it was
prohibited to speak Catalan orBasque. Many of my colleagues
went to underground schools andEnglish was not taught. So I
went to get my masterycertification before really
embarking on the book. So Iwanted to make sure that my
reading, my writing, myspeaking, my listening
(08:47):
comprehension was all aspolished as it as it could be to
embark on that work. And thework of the book took me deeper
than I thought. You know, Iwould really go just
interviewing scholars andgrowers and winemakers and and
artisans and everyone from youknow 80 years old to you know 20
(09:10):
in their early 20s and fifthgenerations of growers and and
artisans and historians. And ittook me so deep into the region
beyond the wine, because Riojais predominantly an agricultural
region that that, I think reallywhat planted the seed. It
(09:32):
planted the seed because Irealized that all of these
people were obsessed byauthenticity. They were all very
proud custodians of their land,this steward ship of the land
and of nature, where all oftheir land is protected, 36% is
protected under the natura 2000which is the largest
(09:52):
conversation conservationproject in the world that the
European Union is in charge of.And 36% for a small place. This
is a large percentage of yourland to be under that
protection. So all of this justreally started to resonate
these, this thread of thesecommon factors of authenticity,
stewardship of the land,tremendous generational respect
(10:16):
and sharing, you know, practicesor traditions that their
ancestors had an unfalteringpursuit of quality, whether you
know, it was just an innkeeperor a local restaurant or someone
cultivating their pears. So allof it came together that it it
always brought me in to back tothis place that well, Rioja is
(10:41):
more than why. You know, there'smore, there's more here to
enjoy, and some pieces that, ifsomebody's crazy, can cross the
pond. So we're, we're veryexcited. I mean, the the
artisans that I'm working withand the laboratory in Rioja to
to produce our 100% botanicalblends body oils infused, one
(11:04):
when fused with lavender, theother with rosemary. They're all
very they're very proud, andthey're very devoted to to what
they do and the stories that canbe shared. So Rioja was ready
for this now, and I think it wasreally the book that really took
me so deep that kind of openedopen this up, yeah, and
Indra Klavins (11:27):
I think I can infer it, but I would love to
hear more about how you gain thetrust of these crafts people,
you know, because if, if you'rethinking about it, if I'm
thinking About from the classicAmerican perspective, that multi
generational crafts person isnot necessarily something that's
so deep in our DNA as as as as anation, right? That is something
(11:51):
that is more prevalent in otherparts of the world. And in my
experience, when I'veencountered crafts people, they
can be very protective of theirwork, of their craft, of their
region, of their whatever insertwhatever word you want to put
there, they can be veryprotective, and they can be
(12:11):
distrustful of outsiders forfear of losing the thing that
makes it so special. I mean, canyou talk a little bit about
that? Because I think that canapply to so many different
scenarios.
Unknown (12:22):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think respect and trust
is earned and and I think for,you know, speaking to especially
women in careers at differentpoints of careers where you
might have had to pivot, or youmight have been subject to a
discriminatory act or a practicethat perhaps was not ethical or
(12:43):
wasn't fair or wasn't justthink, if you can what you can
control is your space and whatyou do, and that will stay with
you forever. And I think that'sreally been a guiding force for
me. I sat down and met withwinemakers and growers and
(13:06):
historians and scholars on mysummer vacation. And, you know,
I had a full time job, and Isaid, I will take on this job
with the real Hawaiiangovernment, but I won't give up
my book. I'll do it on weekends,early morning, hours, late at
night, or on vacation. So Ithink when they saw that, here
it is, this woman is not at thebeach. She's here interviewing
(13:27):
us, using her vacation time forthis research. There's a certain
level of reverence for that.Yeah, and the work that I did to
really act as a conduit or avoice for all of them, was
something that was very noted,and with that, you earn respect.
Indra Klavins (13:51):
That's so thank you. Thank you, because I don't
know if enough of us know how todo that, so thank you for
sharing a little bit about that.Yeah, yeah. I really, I really
believe that, yeah, and youknow, as you've been navigating
this, and I know a little bitmore from the outside,
definitely from the inside, froma very novice outside, the wine
(14:13):
world can be very dominated bymen. That's, that's just the
reality and the history of IT.Yeah, you know, can you speak a
little bit about your experiencethere? And has that shifted? Has
that changed as you're goinginto these other, these realms,
with these other crafts people?Because I'm not as familiar with
some of these other crafts,whether it's ceramic or, you
(14:34):
know, wool or oils, or whateverit might be.
Unknown (14:38):
Well, the wine business is, you know, when I started in
the wine business, it was prettymuch like being a male nurse 30
years ago. You know, maybe 5%and that's really what it was.
It was a very male dominatedindustry, and that has changed
very much today, in terms of onthe business side, here in the
United States, it's changed, andit's shifted, and I think we're
(14:59):
seeing. So a lot of female winemakers, especially in Europe,
being highlighted and and that'spart of why, last year we we
created a Rioja woman's HistoryMonth initiative, because over
50% of the winemakers in Riojaare female, and most all of them
are very awarded as well. Andjust some very top wine writers
(15:21):
just came out with her reports.And some of these wines that
scored so incredibly high wereby female wine makers, and some
of them very young too, whichjust makes you feel so proud and
so wonderful. So that was ajourney with the wine business.
You know, traditionally, in thewholesale channel, also in the
retail channel, there's, a lotof men and moving into other
(15:43):
industries right now. Think it'smore diverse. You know, we're
moving into really tabletopconsumer products and real
holistic home for me, very much,is the intersection of my
professional life and mypersonal life. I I managed a
biz, big, busy home with manychildren in the home. There was
(16:07):
a short period of time I hadsome orphans living in my home,
and it was always, you know, thekitchen was always the hub, and
heightened awareness about, youknow, wellness and in the home,
and practices in the home toconnect or to practice the
values that were important foryou were there. So Rioja,
(16:28):
holistic home is definitelyabout not just about the pieces
and the selections that we'rebringing, but the ethos of Rioja
as well that we're trying tobring into the home. You know,
if I have a piece, where does itcome from? How was it made? Who
was it made by? How can thishelp? This protected personal
(16:49):
time, so we can connect, so wecan be together, so we can enjoy
this this time, so that has hasa lot to do it. I think we're
subject to so much deceptivemarketing here Indra in the
United States, that I can onlygive an example of Europe that
they are not like working with alaboratory in Spain that is
(17:12):
adhering stringently to all theEU regulations just to do the
packaging label that we're veryproud of. It was just
spectacular. It was designed bydesigner here from electrical
Lab, which was the brandingstudio that did all of our
branding. That's out of Chicago.And you know, she had put the
(17:32):
designer had put the icon, youknow, animal cruelty free, on
the packaging. And then, youknow, the CEO of our laboratory
said, we don't need this. Thisis prohibited in the EU you
would be closed in one day. Yes,you would be closed in one day
if you even considered, youknow, testing on animals, so in
terms of our food products andwine and what is allowed to go
(17:58):
in things that we put on ourbody, or that we consume. The
laws are, you know, very, verydifferent. So I think in the
United States there really isright now, or at least the
organizations I'm affiliatingwith this heightened awareness
about, you know, what we have,where it comes from, you know
what we're sharing in our homes,and the implications that it can
(18:21):
have on us, our children, ourloved ones, our friends, our
family. So this raisingconsciousness is a big part of
real, holistic home, too.
Indra Klavins (18:32):
There's something so beautiful and so intentional,
because I think that our worldis moving at least it feels like
it to me. The world is moving soquickly. And the when I
encounter you, when I encounterwhen we talk about everything
that you're doing, there's justthis, there's this instant,
(18:53):
like, I feel the need and thedesire to maybe, like, take a
deep breath and slow down, whichI think that our bodies really
respond. At least my bodyresponds really well too. It's
just like, oh, let me relax intothis. I don't need to be at an
11 all the time. I might needthat for my job. I might need
that to navigate a subway or ahighway or whatever, or whatever
(19:16):
you need to do to get throughlife. But that opportunity to go
home and pause and have thatintentional moment and the
encouragement you're providingto so many of us. I'm so, I'm so
grateful.
Unknown (19:28):
Yeah, it's, it's really it's really important. It's
really valuable. I think it theoverall wellness and all of
these components that cometogether can really benefit, you
know, benefit us in in many,many different ways. And even
with the, you know, even withour textiles, which are just so
fabulous or extra fine merinowool textiles, it's just, we
(19:52):
don't want to sell you 10blankets, you know. We want to
sell you one, one heirloom babyblanket that. Your children and
your grandchildren, and yourgrandchildren thereafter can
enjoy and even just going to thephoto shoots with a photographer
the way they just the natural,biodegradable fabric just drapes
(20:14):
itself. Indra, I just, I can'teven say how, how beautiful it
is. It was just really, reallyspectacular. Even the
photographer was like, you know,he thought it was like something
you'd had to be folding,steaming, you know, the
photographers do have all thesetricks. And I thought I was
really, I learned a lot being ona product photography photo
(20:36):
shoot for 14 hours, and it wasjust, you know, he's like, this
doesn't need any of this. Itdoesn't need, you know, the
steaming. It doesn't need allthe boards behind it and
underneath it and in it. And itwas just, it was really, really,
really wonderful. So it's a, youknow, I think what we're going
to be seeing from a lot ofpeople is this, you know, this
(20:57):
shift, you know, it's a shiftto, you know, we live in a turbo
capitalist society, and it's onebuilt on convenience and this
throwaway culture that noweveryone is starting to
question. And this, you know,even making gentle shifts is a
start. Nobody can go from zeroto 101 day. But when, when we
(21:20):
have this consciousness, and itstarts, it's really beautiful. I
even saw it myself, as, youknow, working full time in this
work, just starting to be somuch more label conscious, about
textiles or about food labelsand or researching out, you
know, what is the natural, youknow, component, and then if you
(21:41):
add something on to it, youknow, then it becomes synthetic.
So we have a lot of deceptivelabeling and everything
interesting.
Indra Klavins (21:50):
Yeah, I know. And I'm just imagining myself and my
journey like it's not, it's notalways, it's not always easy.
You can't do it all the time,but when you can do it like I
treasure that moment when I'mable to take a pause and really
have that really big reflection.And I, for one, cannot wait,
because, you know that Merino isone of my favorite types of
(22:11):
fibers, like I will seek thatstuff out. I prefer it over
cashmere. So I just think it'sso beautiful. It's got a It's so
soft, it's so beautiful. Andit's, it's more resilient than a
cashmere, yeah, which Iappreciate.
Unknown (22:25):
Yeah, it is. And the history of the of the breed and
in Spain is just really quitebeautiful, and, and it
intersects in wine country, youknow, in a very, very
significant way in Rioja, yeah.
Indra Klavins (22:38):
And, you know, you're in the messy middle of
launching this. Yeah, right,
Unknown (22:44):
as I'm in the very messy middle, I've got product
tags on my desk and, you know,body oil vessels and my head
going about wine affiliateprograms that can be done
because it's wine is sensorial.It's sensorial experience. And a
lot of these pieces are alsosensorial, you know, just even
(23:06):
mentioning Merino, the look ofit, and you just said, the feel
of it, you know, I love Merino,the feel of it. So it's, it's a
messy, a messy middle time. Butyou just keep going, you know,
you just stay in it, and you,you, you keep going, yeah.
Indra Klavins (23:23):
I mean, I think that you're highlighting
something really important nomatter. Like, you're clear on
what your North Star is, you'reclear on what your objective is,
and keeping that in mind as thetwists and turns happen, like,
is there one twist or turn thatwas more unexpected than the
others that because, I mean, andhow did you, how did you cope
with that Twister turn?
Unknown (23:45):
That's a beautiful question. That's a really
beautiful question. I thinkhaving patience with certain
there's certain answers that youwant quicker than the system
will allow them, and you have toexercise patience, be in a space
(24:06):
to learn, ask questions I'venever really like I have one of
the most important relationshipsI have right now is with my DHL
account representative and andhe is going, he's, headquartered
in Arizona. All of his accountsare East Coast people. He's
bilingual, which is wonderfulbecause some of my work rooms do
(24:28):
not speak English, and there's alot of communication both of us
have to have, you know, between,you know, cargo and measurements
and size and packaging. And he'sjust been really wonderful. I'm
doing like a team launchannouncement, and I have him in
it, you know, because he's justbeen so pivotal. And DHL has
(24:51):
been very good to work with,very, very good to work with so
far.
Indra Klavins (24:55):
Can I tell you, logistics is something that I
have high risk? Act for, I don'thave that skill or that aptitude
and but it is. It's like, it's athey do so much invisible work
and so much I can just imaginethem dealing with, like,
literally, the logistics, thetariffs, the you know, like, all
the different things that needto deal with it, and the fact
(25:17):
that you found somebody, and thefact that you're celebrating
them, like, can I give you likethat? That's huge, because all
too many people, again, inAmerican society, we're supposed
to be this person who does itall by themselves, like all
these, you know, these, theseheroics, but you're doing it.
You're demonstrating communityfor a product that's created, or
for products that are created bycommunity to help, to encourage
(25:38):
further community, whether it'swith the things that people are
acquiring, or how they'resharing them with others. I my
hat goes off to you. My hat goesoff to you.
Unknown (25:47):
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's really, it takes, it takes,
it takes a community. It takesall. It takes a whole team, and
all of the parts make the wholeand I guess that's a big part of
the messy middle, you know, likethe messy middle can be so
pivotal for the end. Indra,like, and you probably know that
(26:07):
better than me, because youselected that as the name of
your podcast, right, you know.But the messy middle is, wow,
it's, it's so pivotal to to whatthe end, you know, what the end
really, really can be or not be,and especially with a product
launch, because it's almost likeit's such a domino. I see it's
much more than in a servicebased career, but this is so
(26:30):
much, you know, x and y and zwhole kind of hang on each
other, and they thread throughto the to the finish line. But
yeah,
Indra Klavins (26:38):
and the fact that you highlighted patience too, I
think is really important in ain a land of AI like I whenever,
whenever I use chat GPTregularly, and when it often,
every once in a while, there'llbe the push to go to premium in
the paid model. And I have thisconversation with my chat GPT
(26:58):
saying, Should I pay? Is itworth it for me to pay for. I
get very meta on these things,yeah? And one of the things that
it says, well, it will offer youanswers more quickly. I'm like,
I actually kind of likeexercising my patience muscle.
It's okay, right?
Unknown (27:15):
Because, yeah, because you're thinking, you're thinking
with your AI tool. I'm using afew different AI tools right
now, and that's really where wecan embrace it. If your AI tool
is working with you, and that's,that's a good you know, that's
Indra Klavins (27:32):
a good thing, but we need to remember to slow down
back to human pace again, right?
Unknown (27:37):
Right? And I think you know, one of my favorite wines
in Rioja are the grand reservas,the red grand reservas, because
there's no other wine region inthe world that has the same
rigor, from vineyard throughbottling to make grand reservas.
And they are released at theirearliest, in their seventh year,
really. So that's the antithesisof an American winemaking
(27:59):
mindset. You know that youbottle in your beliefs, and you
get to market, and you go toMark, and there, I really even,
in one of the descriptions forone of the pieces, I kind of
made reference to a Rioja gramreserve. You know, it's a slow
pace where you sit and and oneof the greatest female
winemakers in Rioja right now,Maria Vargas from Marques de
(28:23):
moriette said, you know, therecomes a time when you have to
step back at the winemaker andyou just let the wine evolve.
You've done your job, and youstep back. And that is part of
the the patience, you know this,this Patience is a piece that
has to, has to have its, role?Yeah, I love that. I love that
Indra Klavins (28:44):
I'm very conscious of time. I'm very
respectful of your time. I amgrateful that you're you've
joined me. Is there anythingthat you want to highlight or
share? I know that will be, I'llbe making sure that I'm sharing
through all of our channels andeverything when things start to
launch. So if people are curiousand want to explore what's
available, definitely be doingthat. We'll make sure that the
(29:06):
that I include all theappropriate links in our show
notes. But is there anythingelse that you'd like to share or
with everyone before we start towrap? Well, I think it's well.
Unknown (29:18):
Thank you so much for having us. Indra. You know, this
real holistic home or our shopshould open, probably by the end
of March or early April. Andit's I wrote to one real hope
the wine region of real hopebooks. So my approach to
everything is always to educate,to support. You know, everything
(29:41):
on my Instagram channel rightnow is Ana Fabiano Rioja, and if
you can visit me there, andeverything there is, there's
nothing paid. It's all justinformation or wines or facts
about Rioja that I share fromfrom a place of just knowledge.
And I. Uh, ambassadorship,really, nothing is paid there.
(30:03):
And Rioja holistic home will belaunched by April of 2026 so
there will be a lot ofinteresting pieces there to
learn about. Just reallyencourage a different value
system, a different approach,different thinking through
these, through these pieces, andthrough the just really, they're
(30:23):
all exquisite. They're allreally, really exquisite. And
they're ones designed to reallyenrich the well being and the
health of of the home, and toreally start there, because
everything is holistic, right?You know, we look at it, our
bodies are holistic. It's acircular, you know, way of
movement versus, you know,linear and throwing away. And I
(30:46):
think this grassroots movementis happening now, and there has
to be some optimism around that,that that it really is, is
happening. And you know, thatcan make a big difference.
Indra Klavins (30:59):
What a beautiful way to end things, if I may ask,
Would you be up for giving us aclosing toast? How would people
in Rioja say Cheers to everyone?
Unknown (31:09):
They would say, I'm drinking this beautiful white
actually, right now, it's justbecause the end of the day, and
then I'll take a break and I'llgo back and work tonight. But
it's a Gomez cruzado white wine.That's a centenary winery, so I
have it right here the bottle.It's a centenary winery, and
it's available throughout theUnited States, and it's a blend
(31:30):
of three of our grape varieties,but they would say ching, ching,
ching, and then click glasseswith
Indra Klavins (31:36):
I have a mug. I don't have a wine glass, but
chin, chin, chin. Chin, thankyou. I know that anyone who's
listened to this episode hasgotten something beautiful out
of it. Hopefully they took asmany deep breaths as I did, as
you're painting this beautifulpicture of what you've done and
what's to come. And I hopeeveryone will join us next time
for another topic, from themessy middle, chin. Chin, you
(32:00):
Klavins, thanks for taking timewith us in the messy middle.
Word of mouth remains mostpowerful way for people to find
us. If this episode sparkedsomething for you, we'd love it
if you'd subscribe to thepodcast on your favorite app,
download a few episodes andshare it with someone else who's
navigating the in between. Doyou have ideas for future
(32:20):
episodes or topics you'd like usto explore. You can find our
feedback form at the messymiddle matters.com, or in the
show notes. Thank you forjoining us on this journey. This
work is better when we do ittogether, until next time you.
Indra. Hi. I'm Indra, and I'd like to welcome
you to the messy middle matters,where my friends and I explore
all the twists, turns andchallenges that arise in the
messy middle of work. Hieveryone. Welcome back to the
messy middle matters. Today is asuper exciting day. One of the
things that I've heard from manyfolks, especially women, is
(00:26):
hearing the career paths and thejourneys that people have gone
through and how they got towhere they landed, like did it?
Was it a straight path? Was ittwisty? Was it turny? Did it go
through a few vineyards? Alittle teaser on this one about
what we're going to be talkingabout today and the journey that
we're going to get to learnabout. So Anna, so nice. I'm so
(00:47):
glad that I met you. I'm so gladthat you're joining me. And
welcome, welcome, welcome,welcome. Gracias.
Ana Fabiano (00:55):
Thank you. That was wonderful to be here. Indra,
really.
Indra Klavins (00:58):
Why don't you tell everybody a little bit
about yourself,
Unknown (01:02):
about myself? Well, I'm a professional. I've been a
professional in the space offood and wines from Spain for
decades, and that took me fromworking for the Embassy of Spain
in their trade office tocreating my own boutique public
relations and promotions andpromotions agency to writing a
(01:23):
book, to working for the winegovernment of Rioja and
authoring their business planfor the Trade Division for the
US, to then creating my ownplatform, and now to creating A
product based business forcurated special, special pieces
from Rioja that some which arein flight right now. So that's,
(01:47):
that's my specific journey.
Indra Klavins (01:50):
Yeah. So, you know, like, let's start at the
beginning. Like, I, how does,how does someone wind up
becoming the ambassador for aregion of such beautiful,
delicious, wine like that, thatis that something that you
wanted to do? Is it somethingthat you happened upon? Yeah, I
would love to hear a little bit
Unknown (02:08):
about that. Think, I think one of the big pieces that
I always try to share, and Ialways found, but let your
passion guide you, and theneverything else can fall into
place, and some of those bigstrides that we have to take
professionally, they might notnecessarily land exactly where
(02:31):
we think we're going, but if youhave these guiding forces of
Passion authenticity, it reallydoes take you to incredible
places, and I see this withmentees that I've had, or
colleagues, and also also withmyself. I studied in Spain
(02:52):
during the transition todemocracy, and I think that's a
topic globally we all canconnect with on some level right
now, right? And it was a verypulsating, moving, moving time,
and many of the people therewere still remembered and lived
through a very brutal but shortlived Spanish Civil War, so to
(03:16):
really experience their feelingsand their life and what they
had, it was, it was very movingfor me. It was captivating time
to experience it. And thatreally energized me to be part
of this, privatizing a wholenation and really lifting a
whole nation. And that was adriving force for for me to
(03:41):
pursue this, this passion,wanting to participate that in
the latter part of the 20thcentury. And it's, it's, you
know, I think everything toIndra comes 360 you know, we can
have our paths. And it's areally beautiful thing to see
how something that we might haveexperienced at a different
period of our life, whether itbe in our childhood or our
(04:03):
teenage years, or in adulthoodor in childbearing years, or
what they may be, it does come360 because that experience, for
me, is now manifesting throughincredible ceramic pieces of art
that is from a ceramics who ispart of this artistic movement
(04:24):
of the transition to democracyin the latter part of the 20th
century. So it's, it's, it'snice to see how this came full
circle, you know, decades later.
Indra Klavins (04:34):
Yeah, I love, I love the fact that you, I mean,
Rio hot is the through line toyour story, right? It is, or
it's one of the through lines toyour story.
Unknown (04:43):
Yeah, it's a big one. It's definitely a big one.
Because when I started mycareer, it was in Spain. There
was cava, which are sparklingmines made in the same way as
the champagnes or the methodoshop, and was wines, and there
were Sherry, wines which arefortified. Wines from southern
Spain. There was Rioja, many ofthese other delicious, fabulous
(05:05):
regions that have emerged sincethe late 1980s just really
weren't, weren't on the charts.So I've kind of grown up with
Rio the region and I've kind ofgrown up together. So yeah, a
nice journey.
Indra Klavins (05:21):
Yeah. And I you had, I had the pleasure, I had
the pleasure of getting apreview of the trailer for our
Rioja holistic home, which we'lltalk about, and much more. But
what the the thing that I tookaway from it, like, by the end
of it, I was at three minuteslong that this, that you had,
this, this, yes.
Unknown (05:40):
237 Yeah. 237 Yep. That's good. That's very close.
That's just
Indra Klavins (05:45):
my internal you know, my metric is okay, but it
was just so beautiful. And, youknow, just to paint the picture
for everyone, it's a beautifulintroduction to the Rioja
region. It's a wonderfulintroduction to you why you're,
why you are as well versed inthe region as you are, why you
(06:06):
are so connected to the regionthat you are, and how you know
your history is about elevatingthe winemakers of the region,
and now you're elevating all thecraftspeople, not just the
winemakers. And that is just, itwas, it's such a beautiful
thing, and I cannot wait for theworld to learn more about it.
Unknown (06:27):
Thank you. Thank you so much. I think, I think when
authenticity reigns, you know,it just anything that's
authentic can't be fabricated.It can't be reproduced. And
that, I think it really is, isof heightened interest with a
(06:47):
lot of what's happening now inmany different parts of the
world and many differentindustries. So that's really
where we're rooted.
Indra Klavins (06:56):
Yeah, and you know, how did you we can go
backwards and forwards inhistory, as we're talking about
the conversation, like, I just,I've, there's so many places
that I want to go with you. Butwhat was, what was the seed of
the idea for Rioja, holistichome, like, what was the moment
where you're like, oh, I want toexplore something different.
Because we are, we witheverything that is going on in
(07:19):
the world. So many people arecontemplating, exploring, taking
on new journeys, because theworld as we understood it is
definitely not the world thatwe're living in now, which opens
up so many new possibilities.Like, what was the what was your
moment when you're like, oh, Iwant to make a switch.
Unknown (07:39):
Yeah, that's that's a wonderful question. It really,
in the wine business, really, alot of people that become master
sommelier or master of wine,that kind of work horizontally.
So they have to study many, manydifferent regions. Okay? And my
book, the wine region of Rioja,was the first book by a US
(08:01):
publisher about the wine region.And when I began preparing for
that work, I got my masterycertification from the Cervantes
Institute, which is the Ministryof Education, and they have a
satellite office here in NewYork. And I knew that to embark
on the research for the book,there will be many people that I
needed to get to that didn'tnecessarily speak English. And
(08:24):
looking back again, during theera of fascism, it was
prohibited to speak Catalan orBasque. Many of my colleagues
went to underground schools andEnglish was not taught. So I
went to get my masterycertification before really
embarking on the book. So Iwanted to make sure that my
reading, my writing, myspeaking, my listening
(08:47):
comprehension was all aspolished as it as it could be to
embark on that work. And thework of the book took me deeper
than I thought. You know, Iwould really go just
interviewing scholars andgrowers and winemakers and and
artisans and everyone from youknow 80 years old to you know 20
(09:10):
in their early 20s and fifthgenerations of growers and and
artisans and historians. And ittook me so deep into the region
beyond the wine, because Riojais predominantly an agricultural
region that that, I think reallywhat planted the seed. It
(09:32):
planted the seed because Irealized that all of these
people were obsessed byauthenticity. They were all very
proud custodians of their land,this steward ship of the land
and of nature, where all oftheir land is protected, 36% is
protected under the natura 2000which is the largest
(09:52):
conversation conservationproject in the world that the
European Union is in charge of.And 36% for a small place. This
is a large percentage of yourland to be under that
protection. So all of this justreally started to resonate
these, this thread of thesecommon factors of authenticity,
stewardship of the land,tremendous generational respect
(10:16):
and sharing, you know, practicesor traditions that their
ancestors had an unfalteringpursuit of quality, whether you
know, it was just an innkeeperor a local restaurant or someone
cultivating their pears. So allof it came together that it it
always brought me in to back tothis place that well, Rioja is
(10:41):
more than why. You know, there'smore, there's more here to
enjoy, and some pieces that, ifsomebody's crazy, can cross the
pond. So we're, we're veryexcited. I mean, the the
artisans that I'm working withand the laboratory in Rioja to
to produce our 100% botanicalblends body oils infused, one
(11:04):
when fused with lavender, theother with rosemary. They're all
very they're very proud, andthey're very devoted to to what
they do and the stories that canbe shared. So Rioja was ready
for this now, and I think it wasreally the book that really took
me so deep that kind of openedopen this up, yeah, and
Indra Klavins (11:27):
I think I can infer it, but I would love to
hear more about how you gain thetrust of these crafts people,
you know, because if, if you'rethinking about it, if I'm
thinking About from the classicAmerican perspective, that multi
generational crafts person isnot necessarily something that's
so deep in our DNA as as as as anation, right? That is something
(11:51):
that is more prevalent in otherparts of the world. And in my
experience, when I'veencountered crafts people, they
can be very protective of theirwork, of their craft, of their
region, of their whatever insertwhatever word you want to put
there, they can be veryprotective, and they can be
(12:11):
distrustful of outsiders forfear of losing the thing that
makes it so special. I mean, canyou talk a little bit about
that? Because I think that canapply to so many different
scenarios.
Unknown (12:22):
Yeah, I think, you know, I think respect and trust
is earned and and I think for,you know, speaking to especially
women in careers at differentpoints of careers where you
might have had to pivot, or youmight have been subject to a
discriminatory act or a practicethat perhaps was not ethical or
(12:43):
wasn't fair or wasn't justthink, if you can what you can
control is your space and whatyou do, and that will stay with
you forever. And I think that'sreally been a guiding force for
me. I sat down and met withwinemakers and growers and
(13:06):
historians and scholars on mysummer vacation. And, you know,
I had a full time job, and Isaid, I will take on this job
with the real Hawaiiangovernment, but I won't give up
my book. I'll do it on weekends,early morning, hours, late at
night, or on vacation. So Ithink when they saw that, here
it is, this woman is not at thebeach. She's here interviewing
(13:27):
us, using her vacation time forthis research. There's a certain
level of reverence for that.Yeah, and the work that I did to
really act as a conduit or avoice for all of them, was
something that was very noted,and with that, you earn respect.
Indra Klavins (13:51):
That's so thank you. Thank you, because I don't
know if enough of us know how todo that, so thank you for
sharing a little bit about that.Yeah, yeah. I really, I really
believe that, yeah, and youknow, as you've been navigating
this, and I know a little bitmore from the outside,
definitely from the inside, froma very novice outside, the wine
(14:13):
world can be very dominated bymen. That's, that's just the
reality and the history of IT.Yeah, you know, can you speak a
little bit about your experiencethere? And has that shifted? Has
that changed as you're goinginto these other, these realms,
with these other crafts people?Because I'm not as familiar with
some of these other crafts,whether it's ceramic or, you
(14:34):
know, wool or oils, or whateverit might be.
Unknown (14:38):
Well, the wine business is, you know, when I started in
the wine business, it was prettymuch like being a male nurse 30
years ago. You know, maybe 5%and that's really what it was.
It was a very male dominatedindustry, and that has changed
very much today, in terms of onthe business side, here in the
United States, it's changed, andit's shifted, and I think we're
(14:59):
seeing. So a lot of female winemakers, especially in Europe,
being highlighted and and that'spart of why, last year we we
created a Rioja woman's HistoryMonth initiative, because over
50% of the winemakers in Riojaare female, and most all of them
are very awarded as well. Andjust some very top wine writers
(15:21):
just came out with her reports.And some of these wines that
scored so incredibly high wereby female wine makers, and some
of them very young too, whichjust makes you feel so proud and
so wonderful. So that was ajourney with the wine business.
You know, traditionally, in thewholesale channel, also in the
retail channel, there's, a lotof men and moving into other
(15:43):
industries right now. Think it'smore diverse. You know, we're
moving into really tabletopconsumer products and real
holistic home for me, very much,is the intersection of my
professional life and mypersonal life. I I managed a
biz, big, busy home with manychildren in the home. There was
(16:07):
a short period of time I hadsome orphans living in my home,
and it was always, you know, thekitchen was always the hub, and
heightened awareness about, youknow, wellness and in the home,
and practices in the home toconnect or to practice the
values that were important foryou were there. So Rioja,
(16:28):
holistic home is definitelyabout not just about the pieces
and the selections that we'rebringing, but the ethos of Rioja
as well that we're trying tobring into the home. You know,
if I have a piece, where does itcome from? How was it made? Who
was it made by? How can thishelp? This protected personal
(16:49):
time, so we can connect, so wecan be together, so we can enjoy
this this time, so that has hasa lot to do it. I think we're
subject to so much deceptivemarketing here Indra in the
United States, that I can onlygive an example of Europe that
they are not like working with alaboratory in Spain that is
(17:12):
adhering stringently to all theEU regulations just to do the
packaging label that we're veryproud of. It was just
spectacular. It was designed bydesigner here from electrical
Lab, which was the brandingstudio that did all of our
branding. That's out of Chicago.And you know, she had put the
(17:32):
designer had put the icon, youknow, animal cruelty free, on
the packaging. And then, youknow, the CEO of our laboratory
said, we don't need this. Thisis prohibited in the EU you
would be closed in one day. Yes,you would be closed in one day
if you even considered, youknow, testing on animals, so in
terms of our food products andwine and what is allowed to go
(17:58):
in things that we put on ourbody, or that we consume. The
laws are, you know, very, verydifferent. So I think in the
United States there really isright now, or at least the
organizations I'm affiliatingwith this heightened awareness
about, you know, what we have,where it comes from, you know
what we're sharing in our homes,and the implications that it can
(18:21):
have on us, our children, ourloved ones, our friends, our
family. So this raisingconsciousness is a big part of
real, holistic home, too.
Indra Klavins (18:32):
There's something so beautiful and so intentional,
because I think that our worldis moving at least it feels like
it to me. The world is moving soquickly. And the when I
encounter you, when I encounterwhen we talk about everything
that you're doing, there's justthis, there's this instant,
(18:53):
like, I feel the need and thedesire to maybe, like, take a
deep breath and slow down, whichI think that our bodies really
respond. At least my bodyresponds really well too. It's
just like, oh, let me relax intothis. I don't need to be at an
11 all the time. I might needthat for my job. I might need
that to navigate a subway or ahighway or whatever, or whatever
(19:16):
you need to do to get throughlife. But that opportunity to go
home and pause and have thatintentional moment and the
encouragement you're providingto so many of us. I'm so, I'm so
grateful.
Unknown (19:28):
Yeah, it's, it's really it's really important. It's
really valuable. I think it theoverall wellness and all of
these components that cometogether can really benefit, you
know, benefit us in in many,many different ways. And even
with the, you know, even withour textiles, which are just so
fabulous or extra fine merinowool textiles, it's just, we
(19:52):
don't want to sell you 10blankets, you know. We want to
sell you one, one heirloom babyblanket that. Your children and
your grandchildren, and yourgrandchildren thereafter can
enjoy and even just going to thephoto shoots with a photographer
the way they just the natural,biodegradable fabric just drapes
(20:14):
itself. Indra, I just, I can'teven say how, how beautiful it
is. It was just really, reallyspectacular. Even the
photographer was like, you know,he thought it was like something
you'd had to be folding,steaming, you know, the
photographers do have all thesetricks. And I thought I was
really, I learned a lot being ona product photography photo
(20:36):
shoot for 14 hours, and it wasjust, you know, he's like, this
doesn't need any of this. Itdoesn't need, you know, the
steaming. It doesn't need allthe boards behind it and
underneath it and in it. And itwas just, it was really, really,
really wonderful. So it's a, youknow, I think what we're going
to be seeing from a lot ofpeople is this, you know, this
(20:57):
shift, you know, it's a shiftto, you know, we live in a turbo
capitalist society, and it's onebuilt on convenience and this
throwaway culture that noweveryone is starting to
question. And this, you know,even making gentle shifts is a
start. Nobody can go from zeroto 101 day. But when, when we
(21:20):
have this consciousness, and itstarts, it's really beautiful. I
even saw it myself, as, youknow, working full time in this
work, just starting to be somuch more label conscious, about
textiles or about food labelsand or researching out, you
know, what is the natural, youknow, component, and then if you
(21:41):
add something on to it, youknow, then it becomes synthetic.
So we have a lot of deceptivelabeling and everything
interesting.
Indra Klavins (21:50):
Yeah, I know. And I'm just imagining myself and my
journey like it's not, it's notalways, it's not always easy.
You can't do it all the time,but when you can do it like I
treasure that moment when I'mable to take a pause and really
have that really big reflection.And I, for one, cannot wait,
because, you know that Merino isone of my favorite types of
(22:11):
fibers, like I will seek thatstuff out. I prefer it over
cashmere. So I just think it'sso beautiful. It's got a It's so
soft, it's so beautiful. Andit's, it's more resilient than a
cashmere, yeah, which Iappreciate.
Unknown (22:25):
Yeah, it is. And the history of the of the breed and
in Spain is just really quitebeautiful, and, and it
intersects in wine country, youknow, in a very, very
significant way in Rioja, yeah.
Indra Klavins (22:38):
And, you know, you're in the messy middle of
launching this. Yeah, right,
Unknown (22:44):
as I'm in the very messy middle, I've got product
tags on my desk and, you know,body oil vessels and my head
going about wine affiliateprograms that can be done
because it's wine is sensorial.It's sensorial experience. And a
lot of these pieces are alsosensorial, you know, just even
(23:06):
mentioning Merino, the look ofit, and you just said, the feel
of it, you know, I love Merino,the feel of it. So it's, it's a
messy, a messy middle time. Butyou just keep going, you know,
you just stay in it, and you,you, you keep going, yeah.
Indra Klavins (23:23):
I mean, I think that you're highlighting
something really important nomatter. Like, you're clear on
what your North Star is, you'reclear on what your objective is,
and keeping that in mind as thetwists and turns happen, like,
is there one twist or turn thatwas more unexpected than the
others that because, I mean, andhow did you, how did you cope
with that Twister turn?
Unknown (23:45):
That's a beautiful question. That's a really
beautiful question. I thinkhaving patience with certain
there's certain answers that youwant quicker than the system
will allow them, and you have toexercise patience, be in a space
(24:06):
to learn, ask questions I'venever really like I have one of
the most important relationshipsI have right now is with my DHL
account representative and andhe is going, he's, headquartered
in Arizona. All of his accountsare East Coast people. He's
bilingual, which is wonderfulbecause some of my work rooms do
(24:28):
not speak English, and there's alot of communication both of us
have to have, you know, between,you know, cargo and measurements
and size and packaging. And he'sjust been really wonderful. I'm
doing like a team launchannouncement, and I have him in
it, you know, because he's justbeen so pivotal. And DHL has
(24:51):
been very good to work with,very, very good to work with so
far.
Indra Klavins (24:55):
Can I tell you, logistics is something that I
have high risk? Act for, I don'thave that skill or that aptitude
and but it is. It's like, it's athey do so much invisible work
and so much I can just imaginethem dealing with, like,
literally, the logistics, thetariffs, the you know, like, all
the different things that needto deal with it, and the fact
(25:17):
that you found somebody, and thefact that you're celebrating
them, like, can I give you likethat? That's huge, because all
too many people, again, inAmerican society, we're supposed
to be this person who does itall by themselves, like all
these, you know, these, theseheroics, but you're doing it.
You're demonstrating communityfor a product that's created, or
for products that are created bycommunity to help, to encourage
(25:38):
further community, whether it'swith the things that people are
acquiring, or how they'resharing them with others. I my
hat goes off to you. My hat goesoff to you.
Unknown (25:47):
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's really, it takes, it takes,
it takes a community. It takesall. It takes a whole team, and
all of the parts make the wholeand I guess that's a big part of
the messy middle, you know, likethe messy middle can be so
pivotal for the end. Indra,like, and you probably know that
(26:07):
better than me, because youselected that as the name of
your podcast, right, you know.But the messy middle is, wow,
it's, it's so pivotal to to whatthe end, you know, what the end
really, really can be or not be,and especially with a product
launch, because it's almost likeit's such a domino. I see it's
much more than in a servicebased career, but this is so
(26:30):
much, you know, x and y and zwhole kind of hang on each
other, and they thread throughto the to the finish line. But
yeah,
Indra Klavins (26:38):
and the fact that you highlighted patience too, I
think is really important in ain a land of AI like I whenever,
whenever I use chat GPTregularly, and when it often,
every once in a while, there'llbe the push to go to premium in
the paid model. And I have thisconversation with my chat GPT
(26:58):
saying, Should I pay? Is itworth it for me to pay for. I
get very meta on these things,yeah? And one of the things that
it says, well, it will offer youanswers more quickly. I'm like,
I actually kind of likeexercising my patience muscle.
It's okay, right?
Unknown (27:15):
Because, yeah, because you're thinking, you're thinking
with your AI tool. I'm using afew different AI tools right
now, and that's really where wecan embrace it. If your AI tool
is working with you, and that's,that's a good you know, that's
Indra Klavins (27:32):
a good thing, but we need to remember to slow down
back to human pace again, right?
Unknown (27:37):
Right? And I think you know, one of my favorite wines
in Rioja are the grand reservas,the red grand reservas, because
there's no other wine region inthe world that has the same
rigor, from vineyard throughbottling to make grand reservas.
And they are released at theirearliest, in their seventh year,
really. So that's the antithesisof an American winemaking
(27:59):
mindset. You know that youbottle in your beliefs, and you
get to market, and you go toMark, and there, I really even,
in one of the descriptions forone of the pieces, I kind of
made reference to a Rioja gramreserve. You know, it's a slow
pace where you sit and and oneof the greatest female
winemakers in Rioja right now,Maria Vargas from Marques de
(28:23):
moriette said, you know, therecomes a time when you have to
step back at the winemaker andyou just let the wine evolve.
You've done your job, and youstep back. And that is part of
the the patience, you know this,this Patience is a piece that
has to, has to have its, role?Yeah, I love that. I love that
Indra Klavins (28:44):
I'm very conscious of time. I'm very
respectful of your time. I amgrateful that you're you've
joined me. Is there anythingthat you want to highlight or
share? I know that will be, I'llbe making sure that I'm sharing
through all of our channels andeverything when things start to
launch. So if people are curiousand want to explore what's
available, definitely be doingthat. We'll make sure that the
(29:06):
that I include all theappropriate links in our show
notes. But is there anythingelse that you'd like to share or
with everyone before we start towrap? Well, I think it's well.
Unknown (29:18):
Thank you so much for having us. Indra. You know, this
real holistic home or our shopshould open, probably by the end
of March or early April. Andit's I wrote to one real hope
the wine region of real hopebooks. So my approach to
everything is always to educate,to support. You know, everything
(29:41):
on my Instagram channel rightnow is Ana Fabiano Rioja, and if
you can visit me there, andeverything there is, there's
nothing paid. It's all justinformation or wines or facts
about Rioja that I share fromfrom a place of just knowledge.
And I. Uh, ambassadorship,really, nothing is paid there.
(30:03):
And Rioja holistic home will belaunched by April of 2026 so
there will be a lot ofinteresting pieces there to
learn about. Just reallyencourage a different value
system, a different approach,different thinking through
these, through these pieces, andthrough the just really, they're
(30:23):
all exquisite. They're allreally, really exquisite. And
they're ones designed to reallyenrich the well being and the
health of of the home, and toreally start there, because
everything is holistic, right?You know, we look at it, our
bodies are holistic. It's acircular, you know, way of
movement versus, you know,linear and throwing away. And I
(30:46):
think this grassroots movementis happening now, and there has
to be some optimism around that,that that it really is, is
happening. And you know, thatcan make a big difference.
Indra Klavins (30:59):
What a beautiful way to end things, if I may ask,
Would you be up for giving us aclosing toast? How would people
in Rioja say Cheers to everyone?
Unknown (31:09):
They would say, I'm drinking this beautiful white
actually, right now, it's justbecause the end of the day, and
then I'll take a break and I'llgo back and work tonight. But
it's a Gomez cruzado white wine.That's a centenary winery, so I
have it right here the bottle.It's a centenary winery, and
it's available throughout theUnited States, and it's a blend
(31:30):
of three of our grape varieties,but they would say ching, ching,
ching, and then click glasseswith
Indra Klavins (31:36):
I have a mug. I don't have a wine glass, but
chin, chin, chin. Chin, thankyou. I know that anyone who's
listened to this episode hasgotten something beautiful out
of it. Hopefully they took asmany deep breaths as I did, as
you're painting this beautifulpicture of what you've done and
what's to come. And I hopeeveryone will join us next time
for another topic, from themessy middle, chin. Chin, you
(32:00):
Klavins, thanks for taking timewith us in the messy middle.
Word of mouth remains mostpowerful way for people to find
us. If this episode sparkedsomething for you, we'd love it
if you'd subscribe to thepodcast on your favorite app,
download a few episodes andshare it with someone else who's
navigating the in between. Doyou have ideas for future
(32:20):
episodes or topics you'd like usto explore. You can find our
feedback form at the messymiddle matters.com, or in the
show notes. Thank you forjoining us on this journey. This
work is better when we do ittogether, until next time you.
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