December 23, 2025 • 37 mins
Vacation rental design is not an extension of residential design—and it’s definitely not staging. In this episode of Pretty Smart, the hosts unpack what vacation rental design really is: a strategic blend of hospitality, business strategy, psychology, logistics, and data-driven decision-making.
From durability, guest behavior, and photogenic design to pricing strategy, replenishment models, and long-term ROI, this conversation reveals why successful vacation rental designers are far more than decorators. They are ROI strategists—designing spaces that look incredible, function effortlessly, and generate sustained revenue.
The episode also dives into hard-earned lessons: when “lipstick on a pig” doesn’t work, why saying no to the wrong clients is essential, and how trusting your instincts creates room for bigger, more aligned opportunities. Through real project examples, including a transformational case study, the hosts show how thoughtful design decisions can change not just a property’s performance—but how owners view their role in creating meaningful, wellness-driven guest experiences.
Whether you’re a designer, host, investor, or creative entrepreneur, this episode reframes vacation rental design as a powerful, scalable business model with long-term impact.
Timestamps00:00 – 02:30 Why vacation rental design is hospitality, psychology, logistics, and business strategy—not decorating
02:30 – 05:30 Residential vs. vacation rental design: timelines, durability, and real-world use
05:30 – 08:00 Designing with data: ADR, competition analysis, reviews, and market insights
08:00 – 11:00 How to sell design to investors by speaking the language of ROI
11:00 – 14:00 “You’re designing a store people sleep in”: branding, merchandising, and experience
14:00 – 18:00 The replenishment model and why vacation rentals create recurring design revenue
18:00 – 21:00 Photography, stopping the scroll, and refreshing listings every 2–3 years
21:00 – 24:00 Why saying no to the wrong projects is a growth strategy
24:00 – 29:00 Case study: The Gathering—data, accessibility, branding, and transformation
29:00 – 33:00 Wellness, inclusivity, and designing spaces that create lasting memories
33:00 – 36:30 Vacation rental design as a long-term, scalable business model
36:30 – End Invitation to the Vacation Rental Design Summit
Key Quotes- “Vacation rental design is hospitality meets business strategy, meets psychology, meets logistics.”
- “Ordinary isn’t profitable. An ordinary chair doesn’t make money.”
- “You’re designing a store that people are going to sleep in.”
- “We don’t care about grandma’s purple chair—go have fun.”
- “Designers aren’t just making things beautiful; they’re designing ROI.”
Vacation Rental Design Summit Register for the upcoming Vacation Rental Design Summit in Las Vegas: https://tinyurl.com/2rd8w6sr
Pretty Smart Podcast Learn more about the podcast and explore additional episodes: https://theprettysmartpodcast.com/
- Vacation Rental Designers: https://www.instagram.com/vacationrentaldesigners/?hl=en
- J Duce Design: https://www.instagram.com/jducedesign/?hl=en
- High Point x Design: https://www.instagram.com/highpointxdesign/?hl=en
- Saurit Creative: https://www.instagram.com/sauritcreative/?hl=en
Social Media
- Carousel: Why Vacation Rental Design Is NOT Residential Design
- Reel: “You’re not designing a house—you’re designing a business.”
Email Marketing
- Subject line: Why ‘Pretty’ Isn’t Profitable in Vacation Rental Design
- CTA-driven summit promo featuring ROI + wellness
Blog Content
- Designing for ROI: What Vacation Rental Designers Need to Know
- Why Saying No Is a Power Move for Designers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Yeah, it's not just decorating. It's hospitality meets
business, strategy meets psychology meets
logistics. Fewer and better SKUs
curated products that are specific for faster design,
better quality, happier guests. It's like you're designing a
store, essentially a store that people are going to sleep at.
(00:22):
Ordinary isn't profitable. An ordinary chair isn't going
to make money, but a strategic, thought out placement
of a specific product is going to. I promise you
in this category of design, at least from what I
see and hear with other designers, is it's okay to
pause if you have that spidey feeling because
(00:45):
somebody that gets what you're trying to do will come along. And we did do
some lipstick on a pig and the math wasn't there. And this
is the beginning of me learning some life lessons on
projects. I did the lipstick on the pig on that project
and I was not proud of my work. In vacation rental design.
We don't care about grandma's purple chair. Go have fun.
(01:11):
Welcome to Pretty Smart, the podcast where three design industry
insiders accidentally started a movement, mostly because no
one else was doing it. Where Erica Sarrett, Jane Dagne, and Jessica.
Deuce, friends, founders, and people who probably should have asked
more questions before launching a summit, a collective, and now
a podcast. We created this show for every designer, host,
(01:33):
brand or creative entrepreneur who's ever thought. Am I the only one
who feels like everyone else has their life together?
Spoiler yes. And also absolutely not. So
here's what you can expect. Real conversations about the courage it
takes to build something in an industry that can feel enormous
or glamorous and occasionally a little ridiculous. And
(01:55):
we're going to talk about the messy middle, the bold leaps, the panic, the
accidental wins, the strategic wins, the
friendship that held it all together and why doing something before you
know how to do it might just be the secret. We're here to pull back
the curtain on the business of creativity and what actually happens
when you follow an idea that refuses to let you go. Will it
(02:17):
be funny? Sometimes. Serious? More than we
expected. Honest? Always. This is Pretty
Smart, the design podcast for people who are building something
bigger than what they're comfortable with. Season one starts
now.
This first season of Pretty Smart is about how and why we started the
(02:41):
Vacation Rental Design Summit. So today we're talking about the practice
of vacation rental design, or bird design, as
it's often autocorrected, which is hilarious. What it really is
is why it matters and why it's way more strategic,
demanding, profitable, and emotional than people
think. Yeah, it's not just decorating. It's
(03:03):
hospitality meets business, strategy meets psychology
meets logistics. And you can do this because
I'm not even really that pretty smart. I had to throw that in
there. If you can get it right, it's wildly profitable.
And just so it's clear, we can't in 35 minutes really get into
(03:23):
too much detail. But that's what we'll do at the summit. But
we want to talk about this because this has changed my personal
business. And life and so many others. We talked about community
being such a huge part of why we do this. But I think what we
found through the summit is that so many other people who were bird
curious came into this world and really learned
(03:46):
how to grow their own business with this. So it's very
cool. Oh, boy. All right, all right. So,
Jess in the hot seat. Oh, my gosh.
Okay. Residential design is personal taste.
And bird. Bird design is really
data analysis, hospitality and roi. Education
(04:09):
is key. It's so fun and creative.
And the things that you think about, like timelines. These are weeks,
not months. Typically, durability needs, real world
abuse levels. Cheetos are our nemesis. I'm just
gonna say it. Fewer
and better SKUs curated products that are
(04:31):
specific for faster design, better quality, happier
guests, property managers, hosts like, these are not your typical
dialogue items in residential design. And
photogenic design, which means revenue, guest psychology,
the flow, the color, the texture, the sight lines, safety,
accessibility. I could keep going on and on. There's lay.
(04:53):
It's got to look good, it's got to live well. And it has to make
money and. Hide the Cheetos and the dust bun.
But cleaning, being able to clean a space is just so important how you
design it. So this is really what I was going to say. This is really
what people get wrong about vacation rental or short term rental. Design
is. They assume it's just an extension of residential design. But
(05:14):
what you're saying is like, there's so much more. Yeah. And it's
not staging. That's one thing that. Because I have a real respect
for the staging industry, I've tried to do staging.
I'm really not good at it. What's the difference? Tell us. The
simplest explanation I can give you is a stager does not
worry about hooks on the back of the door for the bathrobe or
(05:36):
the amount of towels or where the luggage will be
dropped. Staging is giving you a place to
imagine you being in that space but not living in
that space. That extended. I'm going to curl up here and read
a Book. And this is where I'm going to put my shoes and where I'm
gonna put all the stuff. But there's a real art to staging, just like there's
(05:58):
a real art to vacation rental design and residential design. All the
designs. Yeah. There's a lot of math involved in both,
I would think. Right. Because staging. Let's get this million dollar property
staged and sold. Right. What's the math like
in Verd? Oh, my God. When I hear the word math, my
brain literally turns off. Like, my math ain't mathing for my
(06:19):
brain. So the fact that design with math is
so interesting, but you don't have to be intimidated by that. And when
we say the math, we say like, heads and beds,
how many people can you sleep? But we use data. That's
what I mean personally when I say the math. And
I personally work with a company called Data LED and
(06:42):
we run a really detailed report, as in
40 pages. And it's all about the ADR, the
average daily rate. What is your competition doing? What are the
reviews, views positive and negative. What are your properties around the
property we're considering working on? What is their math? What is their
revenue? What are their losses? What is their occupancy,
(07:04):
turnover? Property management companies come and go. Like,
when we talk about the math, that's what we're talking about. Wow, that's
pretty smart.
But I think that's really interesting because one of the biggest questions we get at
the summit and also through doing this, my background too is like,
how do you sell, sell this to a host or an
(07:27):
investor who's really looking at the bottom line? Right. Investing
in interior design feels like a frivolous
expense. Right. How do you make sure to them that they
understand that all of these elements, all of this data is going to
help inform the design? I think that's really
a very clever part of your strategy, Jess. And I know we're going to talk
(07:49):
about, especially at the summit, we're going to talk about specific projects that
you've worked on and where you start doing that research
and data, how you bring them in and then how you leverage
that to help have the conversation with the host. I think
that what you're saying is maybe a dining chair that
lasts two years costs more than one that's going to last
(08:11):
for seven or 10, who knows? And that the nicer one
might photograph better. And that's not hard to sell
to your client, the host or the investor that's really looking at
the bottom line, the money they're spending and the money they're going to get out.
As a result, the conversation has really evolved and
I've had to learn this. When we first started, we could have those
(08:32):
conversations like, you should use performance fabrics. This
will last longer. You know, let's look at the weight distribution for this
furniture. You have to think about that. I remember one of my very first
conversations with somebody beyond the first property manager I worked
with. And she was frustrated because she was buying all this mid
century moder and look furniture off Wayfair and filling the
(08:54):
space. And after one stay, a chair would be broken. And
so I just quickly looked up the chair in Wayfair and I said, the total
weight this chair says it can handle is £100. I'm going
to break your chair. So it never occurred to her
that is something you should look at. So this
evolves. And yes, we have always
(09:15):
looked at the math for mathing on quality pieces and
durability and duration and all of that good stuff. But the, the
conversation has really evolved and your
audience, meaning the owner that you work for, you really do
have to care about their bottom line. That's why they're doing this. They want,
for the most part, they want to give a great guest experience.
(09:38):
That is the math that will keep them going. They don't know how to do
it. And now we're beyond just talking about,
you should have an elevated experience, you should have quality.
Let's not have to replace your items in a year. Let's extend it out 3
to 5. Now we're talking about branding, having your
own website, having items in the home that are
(10:01):
branded that they may want to sell and how you're going to have a
drip campaign. Like you are walking into a
business. You're designing a store,
essentially a store that people are going to sleep at. Oh, I love that.
That's such an interesting thing to say. That just came out of my brain.
And you know what? Oh my God. That kind of makes sense, right? You're
(10:23):
pretty smart. It's pretty smart.
We're going to run with that one. But it's true.
And so respect the store owner, respect the people,
the consumers, slash guests that are going to sleep in your store.
Make everybody happy. How exciting is that? Super exciting.
It's not just about making it beautiful, it's about making
(10:46):
the room make money. Because ordinary
isn't profitable. An ordinary chair isn't gonna make money.
But a strategic, thought out placement of a
specific product is going to. I wanna just say something, Jess.
I know at previous summits you've talked about replacement.
When designers first design, sure, they can do QR coding and they can
(11:08):
open a store, but just the day to day of vacation rental
design, like a designer that does it, is going to have to
replenish. Right. And that's more income. And
could you explain a little bit just about the sustainability of
vacation rental design? This is my favorite, the math. This is
what I wish I could really convey to designers and
(11:29):
brands. So one of the examples is if you
design a residential project, it's wonderful and
beautiful and you've thought of what the client
needs and hopefully if you've done your job right,
they cry when they see it, they show it to their neighbor, show it to
their family, you get some pictures, maybe you get in a
(11:51):
magazine. Great, amazing moment. And then if you did your job right,
you're probably not going to work on that project again for 10 years.
If you do a vacation rental design project, you are going
to have that same experience where they're loving the space, but
people are going to continually see it over and over and over again. And
those images from that project you created live on the Internet
(12:13):
and are shared among so many platforms. So it's
amazing fodder for brands. I just used the word fodder. I
actually really don't know what it means, but I feel like that was right.
Was that right, Jane? Yeah. Okay. But it's amazing for
the brands to have this exposure over and over and over. But then
you've also built a replenishable model and this
(12:36):
is what I love. So not only am I able to say
to the brands, look, we made this pretty room and
this is like all over the place and you should love this.
But I'm also saying, and not only is this living on all these
platforms, but we're going to need that same sofa that you made for this
project. We're going to need it in three to five years. So to that brand,
(12:59):
I'm buying those pieces from them two, three,
four times in 10 years. Hypothetically, at least
two, probably three. But that residential project, that's a
one. That's a big difference. So in vacation rental design,
it's beyond that. You're creating this replenishable
product. You're going to hopefully resupply the linens for
(13:21):
them. I just did another order for 150 pillowcases. That's
random. But that property manager knows we got
them and we're drop shipping them. 150 pillowcases? You don't have that
in residential design. We also tell our owners and
investors, you need. And this is the math that has shared this with us,
I didn't think this up. Is that you need new photos
(13:43):
every two to three years. Because it's all about stop the scroll.
And if people are scrolling and air DNA and other groups have
this data, people will come back to those same places
and they're scrolling and they're like, oh, I've seen that house before. Oh,
I remember this house. And they're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Is that a good thing?
Wait, tell me, is that memory a good thing? It can be.
(14:05):
It's a good thing. But they're also looking for something different.
So if they're scrolling, scrolling, and they didn't book your house last
time, if you have some different pictures, you are a whole
new plate on the table. And this helps the algorithms
too, because it's seemingly a new picture. I'm sure you saw that
at Airbnb, right? Erica, Change your photos, change your
(14:28):
imagery, change your language. And we're saying you need to do that
every two to three years. So these projects are.
You're creating long term relationships with all of
them. So I need to synthesize something. You said
certainly if your property isn't getting booked, there can be a myriad
of reasons why, but photos and stopping the scroll is definitely one of
(14:50):
them. And a fresh look and something that feels relevant. I understand that neither
one is exclusive of the other, but talking about reordering a
sofa two or three times, that sofa is a big object. Gonna look
the same in photos every two to three years.
So whether or not you're ordering the same sofa, because
it's an amazing white performance fabric that you can layer
(15:13):
tons of different pillows on it, or it's just the most comfortable thing
and everything, you change everything around it. But I think when it comes
to brands, what I've heard from you, Jess, is those who service the
vacation rental designer well, will get the business. They
understand your timeline, they understand those needs that you outlined at the
beginning. But this is the sort of coolness of it, right?
(15:36):
Like, it's the strategy and involving these
visuals and the math. And I just. It's like a great word problem
for me. Yeah. And to learn that there's new
tools for owners and property managers all the time.
Like, we're on a call and they're describing what they're
looking for and they're reaching out to us because they know we
(15:58):
can do design work. They're telling us about the property. I said, have you
looked at Stayfi? That's the way you're gonna collect their data because
if they're only booking through Airbnb and vrbo, you will never have
access to that data. So you need to have your own registration
when they log into the email when they check in, because
you need to be able to market to them afterward. And do you have
(16:21):
things like noise aware where if you're concerned about how your proxim
to neighbors, it'll control the volume and you can share all these
platforms and we haven't even discussed design. And
I love knowing all of these things. To be
an expert on top of the design, I think that's really
cool. But Jess, I think what you're saying is something that we
(16:43):
continuously try to put as a through line
in the summit is design is part of all of
these decisions. It's part just. People see
interior design just as the furnishings, how it looks. But what you're saying
is design is the way that you help solve the problem for
the client of how to market the store, how to photograph it,
(17:05):
how to be strategic on which products and how to best spend their money.
So really, you are designing the roi. You're designing how.
I know when we talk about like, safety or cleanliness,
things like that, how the products, how fast the property manager or
the teams can turn the property, all of those are based on
design decisions you've made. Right. So that
(17:28):
idea that the client just comes to you and I, I know we'll talk about
this eventually, but the clients are becoming the investors or the hosts are
becoming more and more informed. They're no longer. A lot of
them are savvy business people. They've had properties or portfolios of
properties before, or they're successful business people who
understand this is a business. But for them to come to
(17:50):
you and hear you talk about how the data
from the community or the data from the other properties, how all of these
factors are going to influence their business. They see you as the
expert, they see you as the authority and really the person
leading them. You're not just doing the pillows and the wallpaper,
the wow moment. You're designing the entire
(18:13):
roi. I don't know. Is that a thing? Can we talk about it like that?
We had a webinar with Paula Oglin yesterday in the Collective.
Paula? Yes,
absolutely. I'm a huge Paula fan. Paula's been with us from the beginning of
the Summit. Paula does amazing work. There are so many
talented vacation rental designers out there, and
(18:35):
many of them do much more beautiful work than I do.
But our common denominator is that it's a this
design strategy, this ROI strategist
design category. And one of the titles that
was thrown out there was Wealth Generator through Design.
I thought that was so interesting. Yes. And what
(18:57):
Paula was describing yesterday on our webinar was
that they are hiring us for this expertise
to grow this life changing
business for them. And how amazing is that? And
residential designers can help have a life changing
experience in a home. Wellness is a big part of the conversation.
(19:20):
And what's morphing into vacation rental design, and what I want to throw
out there is this is a wellness business. I
talk about how it's guests sleeping in the store,
but I don't want to take away from the fact that you're selling wellness
that the owner will experience through financial gains
and a positive impact on helping others. The stay,
(19:43):
but the wellness of the guest experience, too. So
I may be going on a tangent. I'm sorry. No, I'm
saying is it takes a village. Maybe takes a lot. It really does. Different
people and parts. Yeah. Jess, I was thinking when
Erica was talking about designers as strategists and just really
key partners, and I was thinking about your
(20:05):
beginnings. Epic Blue. You know that story.
I love when you tell it, but just from that point. And how many
years ago was that many? So I always say it's 2015.
I'm pretty sure it was 2015. Okay, so 10 years ago.
Yeah. So in that 10 year span, what are some of the
biggest things that you've learned? What are some of the lessons? And
(20:28):
do you still make mistakes every day? I
learn. I have to learn a lot of things the hard way. I have
learned and I'm still learning to explain
the processes better to the client.
Yes. And what I mean by that is these are
business owners. It's so different. It's not as much
(20:51):
of a personal relationship as when we do residential
design. So when they call, they're basically like, here's my budget.
What can you do with that money? And it's
challenging sometimes, but we have to slow the conversation down
and really explain to them this isn't just us coming
and making the room pretty. There is so much more to this. And
(21:13):
we understand you. We really need them to understand that we do care about
your math. And they've just heard the word designer.
I need to elevate. Maybe things are tired. So the
patience of guiding the conversation and
having to know when it is the right fit and when it isn't,
because they may think they're ready for this and
(21:35):
they're gonna find somebody out there that can help them. For what I want
to offer, I may not be the right choice. And that's probably
been the biggest lesson that I've had to learn.
And it's a hard lesson because we are all
entrepreneurs and most designers, we're commission
based, basically, right? Paid by the project. And sometimes
(21:58):
it's hard to say no, especially when you have a team. But
when you learn that lesson that you have to look for the right fit and
it will work out. Erica, I think you said that in when we were talking
about how we had to pause our summer event
and then suddenly a door opened with Ann Moore. I promise
you, in this category of design, at least from what
(22:20):
I see and hear with other designers, is it's
okay to pause if you have that Spidey feeling,
because somebody that gets what you're trying to do will come along. I think what
you're saying is okay if you have a dream to
do something big. Like what you're saying is you want
to touch all parts of the project as the designer to help show
(22:43):
them how each of these feed into their profitability. Right?
And create a really incredible, unforgettable guest
experience that people are going to just continue to talk about. Right? You want to
touch all those parts and pieces. If someone comes to you as a client and
says, I just need, here's my budget, I just need blank,
blank, blank, I want to stand out, I want to get more bookings, you have
(23:04):
to turn that client down. They're not a good fit if they're not willing to
invest in all the pieces that will create profitability
for them and make the overall experience at the property
ten times better. Right? You have to say no. And that's hard.
And I think again, to tie this to our own personal lives,
our own entrepreneurial endeavors, it is
(23:27):
really hard, especially when things are uncertain and you may
not have a clear pipeline of projects, or you may have payroll to
make, or you may have all these other factors. If you really want to
do the big thing, if you really believe that the future, and in
your case, I know this because we've worked on projects together to see
the bigger picture, you have to stay that course. You
(23:49):
can't say yes to the clients throwing money at you.
You have to say yes to the people who believe in your dream and believe
in your vision and believe in your ability to make their
lives better. I see that in my own business. I see that in my personal
life this year, too. I think that it's just
a hard thing to say to people and until you
(24:11):
do it, until you put yourself out there and you're scared and you do it
scared, and you say, I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say no.
Knowing that something bigger and better is gonna come along.
It's hard. It's hard. But that's all we're talking about. And it's.
I don't know, it's huge. Sometimes I feel
like, of course this is my problem. I'm very yes oriented.
(24:34):
I know we abuse you sometimes. I'm sorry. But when I think about what
Erica said about something bigger, better, and I'm just thinking to say no for self
preservation sometimes that's. That's what I want
to bring. When I think about the new year, it's just say no. I have
to start saying no just for myself. Like, the bigger the better. I
do believe in karma and manifestation, but sometimes it's
(24:56):
just self preservation. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. We're all
working on our boundaries.
You're such a good role model, Erica. Guys, read the book,
Boundary Boss. I didn't become a boundary boss
until last year, honestly. And it changed my life.
And there's a book by a woman, she's a
(25:18):
psychologist and her name's Terri Cole. And she wrote a book called
Boundary Boss. And it really is life changing.
Go read it. It's a plug for her and her book. All
right, I will. After I say no to a bunch of things, I'm gonna go
read that book.
I'm like, boundaries. Is that like my side of the bed and your side of
(25:40):
the bed, Jess? Because we're really good at that. I have never warmed my feet
on your legs in the middle of the night like I do to my husband.
Love you guys. That's true. See, there's a boundary. Probably wouldn't even know.
Yeah. For those of you who don't know and want
a little peek into the life of Jess and Jane, who
are the cutest, best travelers together. They go to
(26:02):
conferences, they go to professional events, but they love to stay
together and have. Have a little sleepover, like a slumber party. But they
do keep to their own side of the bed they don't like. Yeah, they have
boundaries. We do. We're the cutest old married couple because
we sit up in bed and talk and do stuff. And then I put in
my earplugs and my sleep mask and say goodnight and roll over and so does
(26:23):
Jane. Well, I'm usually still working.
Oh, my gosh, that's true. And we always send a
picture to Alejandra Thompson of Thompson Traders of us
in bed. We have a tradition now. We've also done zoom calls
where you guys are in bed together. And I'm like, yeah, wherever I am.
And I just. I love that so much about you. I love it.
(26:47):
All right, so what haven't we covered? What else should we talk about?
I know. I had a brilliant thought, but it's gone because I was picturing us
in bed with our eye masks this last time. Do we want to do anatomy?
I just, I do want to talk about. Just because you're saying data and then
photography and how all these pieces I just was going to see because I know
we're going to do this at the summit, but just put all this together. When
(27:08):
you talk about presenting clients with a bigger idea of what
they actually need, what is that? What's it
composed of? What are all those parts and pieces. That you touch
for anatomy of a project? On projects where you've been able
to bring the client in and tell them about all of these
parts and pieces that will help their roi? So it's not just about the furnishings.
(27:30):
You're not just creating the interior design. What are all
of those things that they need to be thinking about that you can help with?
This is what I was gonna say. A few minutes ago, Erica, you and I
worked on a project together called the Gathering. And this would be a
great anatomy of a project, diagnosis, analysis,
whatever. But that client came to us and
(27:53):
said, we just need to make more money, make the property pretty.
And they didn't wanna do all the things. And we did do some
lipstick on a pig and. And the math wasn't there. And this
is the beginning of me learning some life lessons on projects.
I did the lipstick on the pig on that project and I was not proud
of my work, but it was what was within budget and what they needed.
(28:16):
I didn't share any photos. I did the best I could. But
a year later they're like, our math still isn't mathing. Now we want to
hear about all the other things you suggested. And that's when you came in
and it was a complete overhaul and a million dollar renovation
or almost a million dollar Ren branding
website product. Using the data, we had to
(28:39):
know that accessibility rooms were a big important factor in the
area that didn't exist. And they were willing to go, okay,
we're gonna listen to all this overall thing that
you're describing we should do in every way from
the stayfi to the whole
merchandise branding with you. And they did it. And and
(29:01):
their numbers are extraordinary. They're thriving
and they had to do all the things. And so to me, with
anatomy of a project, like that's a great example. That is the project
that helped me to learn to say no, to make. Space for that
project. Make space for that. Yeah, agreed. Did you
cause a mind shift with the owner to think of their property in a
(29:23):
whole nother way? Is that how you did it at the beginning?
I really think so. And I'd like to tell you that was my super secret
plan from the beginning. But it was just like, this is what
you have, this is what you could be, but it's gonna take all of these
things. And once they did that leap of faith
and we got to use all these tools that we have access to and
(29:45):
can share, they're killing it. Yeah, you basically. So
in my world of marketing and branding, you have to start with what
makes. Makes you different. Right. You build the brand around
the. I have this E3 formula, but the first E is
extraordinarily positioned. How is the property
going to stand out? Stop the scroll. Right. That is an act of
(30:07):
positioning and pulling forward. Something that makes it like visually
different at first. But what you did was you had data
led, do an analysis of the region and the property and
figure out what it is people were looking for that that again the
property could meet. And that was accessibility. And so now they
are one of the only properties as a certified
(30:30):
becoming rentable property. They have the designation
for that they have. Part of the property was already set up for this
because there are, there are multiple accessibility features
of very large properties. 12 acres in Central Texas. Right. Or hill
country. And so you were able though to say, okay,
let's, let's do a barrier free shower. Let's make sure that
(30:52):
in the design elements that we are creating an accessible
place for all bodies, both physical and
cognitive. Visitors, guests who come
will feel comfortable here. And then when we did the branding and the
communications for this, we really made sure that
obviously those things were represented in the photography, they were
(31:14):
represented in how we talked about it on the website and,
and the gathering itself. We built the brand around the
idea, not that this is a great place to come and stay for the weekend
because you can't differentiate on that. Right. But that the idea
of getting to be with your family is the biggest luxury of
all, in all of life. And that sort of through line is
(31:37):
completely like one of the differentiators for the whole property. And it's
in, I don't know, it's in all the things design is an act
of branding in a way. Let's circle back for those
designers considering this or in it now and
looking for other opportunities. You're using this data
to guide you for the design and then you get to go have
(31:59):
fun. So we're talking a lot about math and replenishment, blah, blah,
blah. But you also have this freedom to be a
little more creative than you normally would get to with.
And what I mean by that is I always use the purple chair analogy because
it actually happened. I had a residential project and it's make this room,
but you have to work it around. My grandma's purple chair, it was like the
(32:21):
purple chair from Frasier, that green recliner and Frasier, it
was like that level of cuteness, which is not cute.
And so in vacation rental design, we don't care about
grandma's purple chair. Go have fun. And the gathering
too. One last thing, and I'll let it go. But what also
happened out of that is that these owners have,
(32:43):
have this excitement and creativity and they are coming
up with ideas and wonderful ideas and creativity. And they're
talking about having a sensory garden now. And they
really want all able bodies to
feel welcome at the gathering and doing
scavenger hunt things. And so it's very exciting to
(33:05):
see once you allow creativity in, because you've got the
math and you have a direction, how it just explodes. Oh, my God. And
you did a great job. I think these clients, it's a couple.
It is an investment property. It's large, It's a huge
kind of part of their lives, whether they're managing
it, but it's a big thing that they care about. But what I saw
(33:28):
over the course of us working together with them was this really
evolution in the way they saw themselves, right, as providing
this really incredible space
place, which was really special for people to come and
spend time with their families and their friends. And that brought
value into their lives. They began to believe, and I
(33:50):
think they believed this before, but I'm not sure they had all of the ways
of fully internalizing that. Their investment, okay, it's their
retirement, it's part of their investment plan, but it's also something that they are providing
to other people. So they see value in a completely different way, that
they are contributing to someone's memories and someone's
experience. And that's huge, right? That's huge
(34:13):
that you are able to make such a big change in someone's life. And like
you said, now they're excited about this thing. They're Building, and they're thinking
of ideas and how to make it stand out even more.
Right. So they're really bought into it as, I don't
know, something that they're giving back to the world. And I think that's
incredible. Jess, that's the wellness I think you were talking
(34:34):
about earlier when you were saying this business, really, that feeling of
contributing to other people's lives is exactly that. And I think
that we're gonna go into definitely at the summit in a lot more detail. I'm
so excited to talk about wellness and how that frames vacation rentals.
We talked a lot today about how to speak to investors, how to say no
when it's not right. That's gonna be a great panel
(34:56):
at the summit. Really going into detail on investor speak,
the gathering. You guys did a great job of teeing it up, but
to see the pictures and really get into the data and all that
stuff will be amazing as well at the summit.
Photography is a launch pad for visibility and revenue. We touched on a lot
of cool things that we're going to be deep diving into at the summit. It's
(35:19):
exciting. I know. I hope whoever listens
you get your tickets and come join us. Because I'm
looking at our schedule. I can't believe how much
is in this incredible schedule. The itinerary,
you mean for the event? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't want to say it, but
I'm gonna say it like, this could be our best one
(35:41):
ever. Is it wrong that I say that? I think they just
keep getting. They just keep getting richer. They keep getting richer,
I think, too, because as we bring our community
and strengthen the community and, yeah, there's speakers.
There'S tours, there's events. We've got potties.
Huh? What. Did that
(36:05):
sound like? Potty Party parties.
I need to enunciate better.
That was a new one. I thought you. I don't even know. Okay,
never mind. Yeah, good. It was Appalachian. I thought you said potty is
like mini podcast. Oh, it's Boston. It was potties.
(36:25):
Okay, got it. No, it's going to be a good time. And, yeah, we've
really put a lot into this, and it does keep getting
richer. Do you want to hear my German way to say it?
Yes, Jane, it's potties.
That's so perfect. Okay. All right.
Vacation rental design, not a trend. Total sector, total
(36:49):
raging business in the design world. And learn more about it
at third Summit in Las Vegas. It's pretty
smart. See you there. Thanks for
hanging out with us on Pretty Smart. If Today's conversation gave you something
to think about or made you feel a little more seen. We'd love for
you to keep the momentum going. What's your next step? Register for
(37:11):
the Vacation Rental Design Summit. It's for community, creativity and big
ideas. Meet in person, check out the link in the show notes or visit
hvxd.org to get your ticket to join us this January
in Vegas. But until next time, stay
inspired, stay connected, and stay pretty smart.
Yeah, it's not just decorating. It's hospitality meets
business, strategy meets psychology meets
logistics. Fewer and better SKUs
curated products that are specific for faster design,
better quality, happier guests. It's like you're designing a
store, essentially a store that people are going to sleep at.
(00:22):
Ordinary isn't profitable. An ordinary chair isn't going
to make money, but a strategic, thought out placement
of a specific product is going to. I promise you
in this category of design, at least from what I
see and hear with other designers, is it's okay to
pause if you have that spidey feeling because
(00:45):
somebody that gets what you're trying to do will come along. And we did do
some lipstick on a pig and the math wasn't there. And this
is the beginning of me learning some life lessons on
projects. I did the lipstick on the pig on that project
and I was not proud of my work. In vacation rental design.
We don't care about grandma's purple chair. Go have fun.
(01:11):
Welcome to Pretty Smart, the podcast where three design industry
insiders accidentally started a movement, mostly because no
one else was doing it. Where Erica Sarrett, Jane Dagne, and Jessica.
Deuce, friends, founders, and people who probably should have asked
more questions before launching a summit, a collective, and now
a podcast. We created this show for every designer, host,
(01:33):
brand or creative entrepreneur who's ever thought. Am I the only one
who feels like everyone else has their life together?
Spoiler yes. And also absolutely not. So
here's what you can expect. Real conversations about the courage it
takes to build something in an industry that can feel enormous
or glamorous and occasionally a little ridiculous. And
(01:55):
we're going to talk about the messy middle, the bold leaps, the panic, the
accidental wins, the strategic wins, the
friendship that held it all together and why doing something before you
know how to do it might just be the secret. We're here to pull back
the curtain on the business of creativity and what actually happens
when you follow an idea that refuses to let you go. Will it
(02:17):
be funny? Sometimes. Serious? More than we
expected. Honest? Always. This is Pretty
Smart, the design podcast for people who are building something
bigger than what they're comfortable with. Season one starts
now.
This first season of Pretty Smart is about how and why we started the
(02:41):
Vacation Rental Design Summit. So today we're talking about the practice
of vacation rental design, or bird design, as
it's often autocorrected, which is hilarious. What it really is
is why it matters and why it's way more strategic,
demanding, profitable, and emotional than people
think. Yeah, it's not just decorating. It's
(03:03):
hospitality meets business, strategy meets psychology
meets logistics. And you can do this because
I'm not even really that pretty smart. I had to throw that in
there. If you can get it right, it's wildly profitable.
And just so it's clear, we can't in 35 minutes really get into
(03:23):
too much detail. But that's what we'll do at the summit. But
we want to talk about this because this has changed my personal
business. And life and so many others. We talked about community
being such a huge part of why we do this. But I think what we
found through the summit is that so many other people who were bird
curious came into this world and really learned
(03:46):
how to grow their own business with this. So it's very
cool. Oh, boy. All right, all right. So,
Jess in the hot seat. Oh, my gosh.
Okay. Residential design is personal taste.
And bird. Bird design is really
data analysis, hospitality and roi. Education
(04:09):
is key. It's so fun and creative.
And the things that you think about, like timelines. These are weeks,
not months. Typically, durability needs, real world
abuse levels. Cheetos are our nemesis. I'm just
gonna say it. Fewer
and better SKUs curated products that are
(04:31):
specific for faster design, better quality, happier
guests, property managers, hosts like, these are not your typical
dialogue items in residential design. And
photogenic design, which means revenue, guest psychology,
the flow, the color, the texture, the sight lines, safety,
accessibility. I could keep going on and on. There's lay.
(04:53):
It's got to look good, it's got to live well. And it has to make
money and. Hide the Cheetos and the dust bun.
But cleaning, being able to clean a space is just so important how you
design it. So this is really what I was going to say. This is really
what people get wrong about vacation rental or short term rental. Design
is. They assume it's just an extension of residential design. But
(05:14):
what you're saying is like, there's so much more. Yeah. And it's
not staging. That's one thing that. Because I have a real respect
for the staging industry, I've tried to do staging.
I'm really not good at it. What's the difference? Tell us. The
simplest explanation I can give you is a stager does not
worry about hooks on the back of the door for the bathrobe or
(05:36):
the amount of towels or where the luggage will be
dropped. Staging is giving you a place to
imagine you being in that space but not living in
that space. That extended. I'm going to curl up here and read
a Book. And this is where I'm going to put my shoes and where I'm
gonna put all the stuff. But there's a real art to staging, just like there's
(05:58):
a real art to vacation rental design and residential design. All the
designs. Yeah. There's a lot of math involved in both,
I would think. Right. Because staging. Let's get this million dollar property
staged and sold. Right. What's the math like
in Verd? Oh, my God. When I hear the word math, my
brain literally turns off. Like, my math ain't mathing for my
(06:19):
brain. So the fact that design with math is
so interesting, but you don't have to be intimidated by that. And when
we say the math, we say like, heads and beds,
how many people can you sleep? But we use data. That's
what I mean personally when I say the math. And
I personally work with a company called Data LED and
(06:42):
we run a really detailed report, as in
40 pages. And it's all about the ADR, the
average daily rate. What is your competition doing? What are the
reviews, views positive and negative. What are your properties around the
property we're considering working on? What is their math? What is their
revenue? What are their losses? What is their occupancy,
(07:04):
turnover? Property management companies come and go. Like,
when we talk about the math, that's what we're talking about. Wow, that's
pretty smart.
But I think that's really interesting because one of the biggest questions we get at
the summit and also through doing this, my background too is like,
how do you sell, sell this to a host or an
(07:27):
investor who's really looking at the bottom line? Right. Investing
in interior design feels like a frivolous
expense. Right. How do you make sure to them that they
understand that all of these elements, all of this data is going to
help inform the design? I think that's really
a very clever part of your strategy, Jess. And I know we're going to talk
(07:49):
about, especially at the summit, we're going to talk about specific projects that
you've worked on and where you start doing that research
and data, how you bring them in and then how you leverage
that to help have the conversation with the host. I think
that what you're saying is maybe a dining chair that
lasts two years costs more than one that's going to last
(08:11):
for seven or 10, who knows? And that the nicer one
might photograph better. And that's not hard to sell
to your client, the host or the investor that's really looking at
the bottom line, the money they're spending and the money they're going to get out.
As a result, the conversation has really evolved and
I've had to learn this. When we first started, we could have those
(08:32):
conversations like, you should use performance fabrics. This
will last longer. You know, let's look at the weight distribution for this
furniture. You have to think about that. I remember one of my very first
conversations with somebody beyond the first property manager I worked
with. And she was frustrated because she was buying all this mid
century moder and look furniture off Wayfair and filling the
(08:54):
space. And after one stay, a chair would be broken. And
so I just quickly looked up the chair in Wayfair and I said, the total
weight this chair says it can handle is £100. I'm going
to break your chair. So it never occurred to her
that is something you should look at. So this
evolves. And yes, we have always
(09:15):
looked at the math for mathing on quality pieces and
durability and duration and all of that good stuff. But the, the
conversation has really evolved and your
audience, meaning the owner that you work for, you really do
have to care about their bottom line. That's why they're doing this. They want,
for the most part, they want to give a great guest experience.
(09:38):
That is the math that will keep them going. They don't know how to do
it. And now we're beyond just talking about,
you should have an elevated experience, you should have quality.
Let's not have to replace your items in a year. Let's extend it out 3
to 5. Now we're talking about branding, having your
own website, having items in the home that are
(10:01):
branded that they may want to sell and how you're going to have a
drip campaign. Like you are walking into a
business. You're designing a store,
essentially a store that people are going to sleep at. Oh, I love that.
That's such an interesting thing to say. That just came out of my brain.
And you know what? Oh my God. That kind of makes sense, right? You're
(10:23):
pretty smart. It's pretty smart.
We're going to run with that one. But it's true.
And so respect the store owner, respect the people,
the consumers, slash guests that are going to sleep in your store.
Make everybody happy. How exciting is that? Super exciting.
It's not just about making it beautiful, it's about making
(10:46):
the room make money. Because ordinary
isn't profitable. An ordinary chair isn't gonna make money.
But a strategic, thought out placement of a
specific product is going to. I wanna just say something, Jess.
I know at previous summits you've talked about replacement.
When designers first design, sure, they can do QR coding and they can
(11:08):
open a store, but just the day to day of vacation rental
design, like a designer that does it, is going to have to
replenish. Right. And that's more income. And
could you explain a little bit just about the sustainability of
vacation rental design? This is my favorite, the math. This is
what I wish I could really convey to designers and
(11:29):
brands. So one of the examples is if you
design a residential project, it's wonderful and
beautiful and you've thought of what the client
needs and hopefully if you've done your job right,
they cry when they see it, they show it to their neighbor, show it to
their family, you get some pictures, maybe you get in a
(11:51):
magazine. Great, amazing moment. And then if you did your job right,
you're probably not going to work on that project again for 10 years.
If you do a vacation rental design project, you are going
to have that same experience where they're loving the space, but
people are going to continually see it over and over and over again. And
those images from that project you created live on the Internet
(12:13):
and are shared among so many platforms. So it's
amazing fodder for brands. I just used the word fodder. I
actually really don't know what it means, but I feel like that was right.
Was that right, Jane? Yeah. Okay. But it's amazing for
the brands to have this exposure over and over and over. But then
you've also built a replenishable model and this
(12:36):
is what I love. So not only am I able to say
to the brands, look, we made this pretty room and
this is like all over the place and you should love this.
But I'm also saying, and not only is this living on all these
platforms, but we're going to need that same sofa that you made for this
project. We're going to need it in three to five years. So to that brand,
(12:59):
I'm buying those pieces from them two, three,
four times in 10 years. Hypothetically, at least
two, probably three. But that residential project, that's a
one. That's a big difference. So in vacation rental design,
it's beyond that. You're creating this replenishable
product. You're going to hopefully resupply the linens for
(13:21):
them. I just did another order for 150 pillowcases. That's
random. But that property manager knows we got
them and we're drop shipping them. 150 pillowcases? You don't have that
in residential design. We also tell our owners and
investors, you need. And this is the math that has shared this with us,
I didn't think this up. Is that you need new photos
(13:43):
every two to three years. Because it's all about stop the scroll.
And if people are scrolling and air DNA and other groups have
this data, people will come back to those same places
and they're scrolling and they're like, oh, I've seen that house before. Oh,
I remember this house. And they're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Is that a good thing?
Wait, tell me, is that memory a good thing? It can be.
(14:05):
It's a good thing. But they're also looking for something different.
So if they're scrolling, scrolling, and they didn't book your house last
time, if you have some different pictures, you are a whole
new plate on the table. And this helps the algorithms
too, because it's seemingly a new picture. I'm sure you saw that
at Airbnb, right? Erica, Change your photos, change your
(14:28):
imagery, change your language. And we're saying you need to do that
every two to three years. So these projects are.
You're creating long term relationships with all of
them. So I need to synthesize something. You said
certainly if your property isn't getting booked, there can be a myriad
of reasons why, but photos and stopping the scroll is definitely one of
(14:50):
them. And a fresh look and something that feels relevant. I understand that neither
one is exclusive of the other, but talking about reordering a
sofa two or three times, that sofa is a big object. Gonna look
the same in photos every two to three years.
So whether or not you're ordering the same sofa, because
it's an amazing white performance fabric that you can layer
(15:13):
tons of different pillows on it, or it's just the most comfortable thing
and everything, you change everything around it. But I think when it comes
to brands, what I've heard from you, Jess, is those who service the
vacation rental designer well, will get the business. They
understand your timeline, they understand those needs that you outlined at the
beginning. But this is the sort of coolness of it, right?
(15:36):
Like, it's the strategy and involving these
visuals and the math. And I just. It's like a great word problem
for me. Yeah. And to learn that there's new
tools for owners and property managers all the time.
Like, we're on a call and they're describing what they're
looking for and they're reaching out to us because they know we
(15:58):
can do design work. They're telling us about the property. I said, have you
looked at Stayfi? That's the way you're gonna collect their data because
if they're only booking through Airbnb and vrbo, you will never have
access to that data. So you need to have your own registration
when they log into the email when they check in, because
you need to be able to market to them afterward. And do you have
(16:21):
things like noise aware where if you're concerned about how your proxim
to neighbors, it'll control the volume and you can share all these
platforms and we haven't even discussed design. And
I love knowing all of these things. To be
an expert on top of the design, I think that's really
cool. But Jess, I think what you're saying is something that we
(16:43):
continuously try to put as a through line
in the summit is design is part of all of
these decisions. It's part just. People see
interior design just as the furnishings, how it looks. But what you're saying
is design is the way that you help solve the problem for
the client of how to market the store, how to photograph it,
(17:05):
how to be strategic on which products and how to best spend their money.
So really, you are designing the roi. You're designing how.
I know when we talk about like, safety or cleanliness,
things like that, how the products, how fast the property manager or
the teams can turn the property, all of those are based on
design decisions you've made. Right. So that
(17:28):
idea that the client just comes to you and I, I know we'll talk about
this eventually, but the clients are becoming the investors or the hosts are
becoming more and more informed. They're no longer. A lot of
them are savvy business people. They've had properties or portfolios of
properties before, or they're successful business people who
understand this is a business. But for them to come to
(17:50):
you and hear you talk about how the data
from the community or the data from the other properties, how all of these
factors are going to influence their business. They see you as the
expert, they see you as the authority and really the person
leading them. You're not just doing the pillows and the wallpaper,
the wow moment. You're designing the entire
(18:13):
roi. I don't know. Is that a thing? Can we talk about it like that?
We had a webinar with Paula Oglin yesterday in the Collective.
Paula? Yes,
absolutely. I'm a huge Paula fan. Paula's been with us from the beginning of
the Summit. Paula does amazing work. There are so many
talented vacation rental designers out there, and
(18:35):
many of them do much more beautiful work than I do.
But our common denominator is that it's a this
design strategy, this ROI strategist
design category. And one of the titles that
was thrown out there was Wealth Generator through Design.
I thought that was so interesting. Yes. And what
(18:57):
Paula was describing yesterday on our webinar was
that they are hiring us for this expertise
to grow this life changing
business for them. And how amazing is that? And
residential designers can help have a life changing
experience in a home. Wellness is a big part of the conversation.
(19:20):
And what's morphing into vacation rental design, and what I want to throw
out there is this is a wellness business. I
talk about how it's guests sleeping in the store,
but I don't want to take away from the fact that you're selling wellness
that the owner will experience through financial gains
and a positive impact on helping others. The stay,
(19:43):
but the wellness of the guest experience, too. So
I may be going on a tangent. I'm sorry. No, I'm
saying is it takes a village. Maybe takes a lot. It really does. Different
people and parts. Yeah. Jess, I was thinking when
Erica was talking about designers as strategists and just really
key partners, and I was thinking about your
(20:05):
beginnings. Epic Blue. You know that story.
I love when you tell it, but just from that point. And how many
years ago was that many? So I always say it's 2015.
I'm pretty sure it was 2015. Okay, so 10 years ago.
Yeah. So in that 10 year span, what are some of the
biggest things that you've learned? What are some of the lessons? And
(20:28):
do you still make mistakes every day? I
learn. I have to learn a lot of things the hard way. I have
learned and I'm still learning to explain
the processes better to the client.
Yes. And what I mean by that is these are
business owners. It's so different. It's not as much
(20:51):
of a personal relationship as when we do residential
design. So when they call, they're basically like, here's my budget.
What can you do with that money? And it's
challenging sometimes, but we have to slow the conversation down
and really explain to them this isn't just us coming
and making the room pretty. There is so much more to this. And
(21:13):
we understand you. We really need them to understand that we do care about
your math. And they've just heard the word designer.
I need to elevate. Maybe things are tired. So the
patience of guiding the conversation and
having to know when it is the right fit and when it isn't,
because they may think they're ready for this and
(21:35):
they're gonna find somebody out there that can help them. For what I want
to offer, I may not be the right choice. And that's probably
been the biggest lesson that I've had to learn.
And it's a hard lesson because we are all
entrepreneurs and most designers, we're commission
based, basically, right? Paid by the project. And sometimes
(21:58):
it's hard to say no, especially when you have a team. But
when you learn that lesson that you have to look for the right fit and
it will work out. Erica, I think you said that in when we were talking
about how we had to pause our summer event
and then suddenly a door opened with Ann Moore. I promise
you, in this category of design, at least from what
(22:20):
I see and hear with other designers, is it's
okay to pause if you have that Spidey feeling,
because somebody that gets what you're trying to do will come along. I think what
you're saying is okay if you have a dream to
do something big. Like what you're saying is you want
to touch all parts of the project as the designer to help show
(22:43):
them how each of these feed into their profitability. Right?
And create a really incredible, unforgettable guest
experience that people are going to just continue to talk about. Right? You want to
touch all those parts and pieces. If someone comes to you as a client and
says, I just need, here's my budget, I just need blank,
blank, blank, I want to stand out, I want to get more bookings, you have
(23:04):
to turn that client down. They're not a good fit if they're not willing to
invest in all the pieces that will create profitability
for them and make the overall experience at the property
ten times better. Right? You have to say no. And that's hard.
And I think again, to tie this to our own personal lives,
our own entrepreneurial endeavors, it is
(23:27):
really hard, especially when things are uncertain and you may
not have a clear pipeline of projects, or you may have payroll to
make, or you may have all these other factors. If you really want to
do the big thing, if you really believe that the future, and in
your case, I know this because we've worked on projects together to see
the bigger picture, you have to stay that course. You
(23:49):
can't say yes to the clients throwing money at you.
You have to say yes to the people who believe in your dream and believe
in your vision and believe in your ability to make their
lives better. I see that in my own business. I see that in my personal
life this year, too. I think that it's just
a hard thing to say to people and until you
(24:11):
do it, until you put yourself out there and you're scared and you do it
scared, and you say, I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say no.
Knowing that something bigger and better is gonna come along.
It's hard. It's hard. But that's all we're talking about. And it's.
I don't know, it's huge. Sometimes I feel
like, of course this is my problem. I'm very yes oriented.
(24:34):
I know we abuse you sometimes. I'm sorry. But when I think about what
Erica said about something bigger, better, and I'm just thinking to say no for self
preservation sometimes that's. That's what I want
to bring. When I think about the new year, it's just say no. I have
to start saying no just for myself. Like, the bigger the better. I
do believe in karma and manifestation, but sometimes it's
(24:56):
just self preservation. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. We're all
working on our boundaries.
You're such a good role model, Erica. Guys, read the book,
Boundary Boss. I didn't become a boundary boss
until last year, honestly. And it changed my life.
And there's a book by a woman, she's a
(25:18):
psychologist and her name's Terri Cole. And she wrote a book called
Boundary Boss. And it really is life changing.
Go read it. It's a plug for her and her book. All
right, I will. After I say no to a bunch of things, I'm gonna go
read that book.
I'm like, boundaries. Is that like my side of the bed and your side of
(25:40):
the bed, Jess? Because we're really good at that. I have never warmed my feet
on your legs in the middle of the night like I do to my husband.
Love you guys. That's true. See, there's a boundary. Probably wouldn't even know.
Yeah. For those of you who don't know and want
a little peek into the life of Jess and Jane, who
are the cutest, best travelers together. They go to
(26:02):
conferences, they go to professional events, but they love to stay
together and have. Have a little sleepover, like a slumber party. But they
do keep to their own side of the bed they don't like. Yeah, they have
boundaries. We do. We're the cutest old married couple because
we sit up in bed and talk and do stuff. And then I put in
my earplugs and my sleep mask and say goodnight and roll over and so does
(26:23):
Jane. Well, I'm usually still working.
Oh, my gosh, that's true. And we always send a
picture to Alejandra Thompson of Thompson Traders of us
in bed. We have a tradition now. We've also done zoom calls
where you guys are in bed together. And I'm like, yeah, wherever I am.
And I just. I love that so much about you. I love it.
(26:47):
All right, so what haven't we covered? What else should we talk about?
I know. I had a brilliant thought, but it's gone because I was picturing us
in bed with our eye masks this last time. Do we want to do anatomy?
I just, I do want to talk about. Just because you're saying data and then
photography and how all these pieces I just was going to see because I know
we're going to do this at the summit, but just put all this together. When
(27:08):
you talk about presenting clients with a bigger idea of what
they actually need, what is that? What's it
composed of? What are all those parts and pieces. That you touch
for anatomy of a project? On projects where you've been able
to bring the client in and tell them about all of these
parts and pieces that will help their roi? So it's not just about the furnishings.
(27:30):
You're not just creating the interior design. What are all
of those things that they need to be thinking about that you can help with?
This is what I was gonna say. A few minutes ago, Erica, you and I
worked on a project together called the Gathering. And this would be a
great anatomy of a project, diagnosis, analysis,
whatever. But that client came to us and
(27:53):
said, we just need to make more money, make the property pretty.
And they didn't wanna do all the things. And we did do some
lipstick on a pig and. And the math wasn't there. And this
is the beginning of me learning some life lessons on projects.
I did the lipstick on the pig on that project and I was not proud
of my work, but it was what was within budget and what they needed.
(28:16):
I didn't share any photos. I did the best I could. But
a year later they're like, our math still isn't mathing. Now we want to
hear about all the other things you suggested. And that's when you came in
and it was a complete overhaul and a million dollar renovation
or almost a million dollar Ren branding
website product. Using the data, we had to
(28:39):
know that accessibility rooms were a big important factor in the
area that didn't exist. And they were willing to go, okay,
we're gonna listen to all this overall thing that
you're describing we should do in every way from
the stayfi to the whole
merchandise branding with you. And they did it. And and
(29:01):
their numbers are extraordinary. They're thriving
and they had to do all the things. And so to me, with
anatomy of a project, like that's a great example. That is the project
that helped me to learn to say no, to make. Space for that
project. Make space for that. Yeah, agreed. Did you
cause a mind shift with the owner to think of their property in a
(29:23):
whole nother way? Is that how you did it at the beginning?
I really think so. And I'd like to tell you that was my super secret
plan from the beginning. But it was just like, this is what
you have, this is what you could be, but it's gonna take all of these
things. And once they did that leap of faith
and we got to use all these tools that we have access to and
(29:45):
can share, they're killing it. Yeah, you basically. So
in my world of marketing and branding, you have to start with what
makes. Makes you different. Right. You build the brand around
the. I have this E3 formula, but the first E is
extraordinarily positioned. How is the property
going to stand out? Stop the scroll. Right. That is an act of
(30:07):
positioning and pulling forward. Something that makes it like visually
different at first. But what you did was you had data
led, do an analysis of the region and the property and
figure out what it is people were looking for that that again the
property could meet. And that was accessibility. And so now they
are one of the only properties as a certified
(30:30):
becoming rentable property. They have the designation
for that they have. Part of the property was already set up for this
because there are, there are multiple accessibility features
of very large properties. 12 acres in Central Texas. Right. Or hill
country. And so you were able though to say, okay,
let's, let's do a barrier free shower. Let's make sure that
(30:52):
in the design elements that we are creating an accessible
place for all bodies, both physical and
cognitive. Visitors, guests who come
will feel comfortable here. And then when we did the branding and the
communications for this, we really made sure that
obviously those things were represented in the photography, they were
(31:14):
represented in how we talked about it on the website and,
and the gathering itself. We built the brand around the
idea, not that this is a great place to come and stay for the weekend
because you can't differentiate on that. Right. But that the idea
of getting to be with your family is the biggest luxury of
all, in all of life. And that sort of through line is
(31:37):
completely like one of the differentiators for the whole property. And it's
in, I don't know, it's in all the things design is an act
of branding in a way. Let's circle back for those
designers considering this or in it now and
looking for other opportunities. You're using this data
to guide you for the design and then you get to go have
(31:59):
fun. So we're talking a lot about math and replenishment, blah, blah,
blah. But you also have this freedom to be a
little more creative than you normally would get to with.
And what I mean by that is I always use the purple chair analogy because
it actually happened. I had a residential project and it's make this room,
but you have to work it around. My grandma's purple chair, it was like the
(32:21):
purple chair from Frasier, that green recliner and Frasier, it
was like that level of cuteness, which is not cute.
And so in vacation rental design, we don't care about
grandma's purple chair. Go have fun. And the gathering
too. One last thing, and I'll let it go. But what also
happened out of that is that these owners have,
(32:43):
have this excitement and creativity and they are coming
up with ideas and wonderful ideas and creativity. And they're
talking about having a sensory garden now. And they
really want all able bodies to
feel welcome at the gathering and doing
scavenger hunt things. And so it's very exciting to
(33:05):
see once you allow creativity in, because you've got the
math and you have a direction, how it just explodes. Oh, my God. And
you did a great job. I think these clients, it's a couple.
It is an investment property. It's large, It's a huge
kind of part of their lives, whether they're managing
it, but it's a big thing that they care about. But what I saw
(33:28):
over the course of us working together with them was this really
evolution in the way they saw themselves, right, as providing
this really incredible space
place, which was really special for people to come and
spend time with their families and their friends. And that brought
value into their lives. They began to believe, and I
(33:50):
think they believed this before, but I'm not sure they had all of the ways
of fully internalizing that. Their investment, okay, it's their
retirement, it's part of their investment plan, but it's also something that they are providing
to other people. So they see value in a completely different way, that
they are contributing to someone's memories and someone's
experience. And that's huge, right? That's huge
(34:13):
that you are able to make such a big change in someone's life. And like
you said, now they're excited about this thing. They're Building, and they're thinking
of ideas and how to make it stand out even more.
Right. So they're really bought into it as, I don't
know, something that they're giving back to the world. And I think that's
incredible. Jess, that's the wellness I think you were talking
(34:34):
about earlier when you were saying this business, really, that feeling of
contributing to other people's lives is exactly that. And I think
that we're gonna go into definitely at the summit in a lot more detail. I'm
so excited to talk about wellness and how that frames vacation rentals.
We talked a lot today about how to speak to investors, how to say no
when it's not right. That's gonna be a great panel
(34:56):
at the summit. Really going into detail on investor speak,
the gathering. You guys did a great job of teeing it up, but
to see the pictures and really get into the data and all that
stuff will be amazing as well at the summit.
Photography is a launch pad for visibility and revenue. We touched on a lot
of cool things that we're going to be deep diving into at the summit. It's
(35:19):
exciting. I know. I hope whoever listens
you get your tickets and come join us. Because I'm
looking at our schedule. I can't believe how much
is in this incredible schedule. The itinerary,
you mean for the event? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't want to say it, but
I'm gonna say it like, this could be our best one
(35:41):
ever. Is it wrong that I say that? I think they just
keep getting. They just keep getting richer. They keep getting richer,
I think, too, because as we bring our community
and strengthen the community and, yeah, there's speakers.
There'S tours, there's events. We've got potties.
Huh? What. Did that
(36:05):
sound like? Potty Party parties.
I need to enunciate better.
That was a new one. I thought you. I don't even know. Okay,
never mind. Yeah, good. It was Appalachian. I thought you said potty is
like mini podcast. Oh, it's Boston. It was potties.
(36:25):
Okay, got it. No, it's going to be a good time. And, yeah, we've
really put a lot into this, and it does keep getting
richer. Do you want to hear my German way to say it?
Yes, Jane, it's potties.
That's so perfect. Okay. All right.
Vacation rental design, not a trend. Total sector, total
(36:49):
raging business in the design world. And learn more about it
at third Summit in Las Vegas. It's pretty
smart. See you there. Thanks for
hanging out with us on Pretty Smart. If Today's conversation gave you something
to think about or made you feel a little more seen. We'd love for
you to keep the momentum going. What's your next step? Register for
(37:11):
the Vacation Rental Design Summit. It's for community, creativity and big
ideas. Meet in person, check out the link in the show notes or visit
hvxd.org to get your ticket to join us this January
in Vegas. But until next time, stay
inspired, stay connected, and stay pretty smart.
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