July 20, 2026 • 34 mins
Alexis sits down with multidisciplinary artist Tams Hesz, whose work spans visual art, writing, movement and community connection. Best known as the creator of Soul Stories, Tams shares her journey from a professional dance career in Paris to building a creative business centred around emotion, empathy and human connection. Together they explore reinvention, the healing power of creativity, the importance of slowing down, and how art can help us reconnect with ourselves and each other.
Soul Stories Reset: https://themiddleofeverywhere.com.au/en/events/soul-stories-reset
If you’d like to see more, you can follow on instagram; @ soul.stories
This episode was recorded on 17 July 2026 on the lands of the Kurnai Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.
Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.
Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor
Creative resources:
- https://soul-stories.com
- Karen Tate’s “The Slow School Of Business” - https://ofkin.com/the-leap-stories-21-carolyn-tate/
Let’s get social:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/throughthecreativedoor/
TikToc: https://www.tiktok.com/@ttcdpodcast
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Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor
Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel
Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:49):
I am so very excited to be here with none other but Tams.
We are in such a beautiful space, and for those listening, as soon as I got here, I pretty much got myself on the floor and set myself up.
We, we just- 'Cause I… We, it seems like we're both floor people.
Yes.
Suits me absolutely fine.
I love rolling around on the floor and-
yeah, just always stretching and just doing weird things.
(01:12):
Sounds perfect.
Yeah.
Sounds perfect.
Move our bodies.
Yes.
You are such a talented bear.
Aw.
I saw some beautiful, collaborations that you were doing, uh, down in Bairnsdale with the art space down there, and the people working down there.
Oh, Boundary?
Yeah.
Yes.
And I was like, "Ooh." And there's amazing… Like, oh, my goodness, if I can have all of those people- Oh, my God … in my poddy.
(01:35):
So good.
Watch this space.
I will.
Yeah.
But you're a multi-disciplinarian.
You're an amazing artist and illustrator.
Thank You have a, a dance background and, , so worldly, but the thing that was striking for me, was the fact that your art-
(01:56):
is really holding space for people when they're in the feels.
And allowing there to be an extension of that- Mm
that's, like, in, in the physical.
And I just adore it.
Aw.
Absolutely adore it.
So for those listening, if you have a chance, and I'll make sure that I put it in the show notes- Yes … and things.
There's a beautiful video that you have on your website that really just got me in the feels.
(02:20):
Aw.
Which I will never have the right words to explain how your art holds space in that way, and how you create the beautiful things that you do with story.
But yeah, I want people to see it- Thank you … 'cause it's very cool.
Thank you.
But I feel like I don't have… Like, what, how's the best way?
How do you describe yourself when people go… 'Cause w- we all hate that question.
(02:42):
I know.
It's like, "What do you do?" I know.
It's… and as, as a multi-disciplinarian, like, where do you start?
Well, I'm a dancer, I'm a storyteller, I'm an artist, I'm a painter, drawer.
I don't know, writer.
Now holding reset retreats type thing.
So there's so many things.
Which I saw, and I think that's so cool.
Yay.
Yeah.
(03:02):
So- Uh, you've got one coming up just recently, did you?
Um- Or you just had a group of them- I had one in June just recently.
Yes.
So I tried.
At the moment I'm in experimental stages, so, experimenting with once a month, one weekend a month.
And July I'll let slide by, but, picking up again in August and September, October, November.
Oh, I haven't announced November.
(03:23):
No.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's it for now.
So
you've got a lot going on.
Yeah, yeah.
Many feathers to my… I feel that this year for me has been a building year.
So, not as much creating as I would like, but creating in a different respect where I'm creating a space to invite people in to experience life the way I experience, and getting them to slow down, and through different modalities of art and nature walks, and stretching, and yoga, Pilates or, you know, if you wanna go and read a book in the bath for two hours and not do the, the hot-cold therapy or the da, da, da.
(03:58):
Go do that.
I want people to really sort of slow down and find inside themselves what they need, and they don't necessarily know that until they actually come here and figure it out for themselves.
Like, they come here with one aspect and then leave with another.
So- And that is so true about how we are as this modern society.
(04:21):
We're all in the doing, and- Yeah … our calendars are so full.
Yeah.
There's something about allowing ourselves to be, quote-unquote, "bored." Yes.
Yes.
And I, I, I use that word very loosely.
Yes.
But allowing space for your brain and mind and soul to imagine- Yes … to be creative, like, in, in whatever capacity that is.
(04:47):
Yes.
Exactly what you were saying about.
Yeah, it could be to read a book or to, to think other things- Mm … or just have, yeah, have that space.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, I love that you're really calling it out, and, and almost like giving people the permission- Yes … to hold that space.
I know.
We, we- And that's really special.
That's right.
We hold so much as doers and women especially too, we just hold so much shame to and guilt that we should be doing something.
(05:11):
You know, we should be utilizing this time, especially for kids or other people or whatnot, and just, we just forget to sort of take care of ourselves.
I know, cliche, but you know, put your own m- mask on first to take care of other people, but…
and I think this constant work- it's constant work of just, like, having these little inspirational moments and just being reminded all the time.
(05:33):
We never get to a point where we're like, "Okay, I've learned that now. I've got it in my back pocket. No problem." Wouldn't that be great- No … if it could?
Exactly.
Alas- Yeah … sometimes we relearn the lesson- Exactly … over and over again.
Over.
Yep, guilty.
Yeah, hand up.
Yep.
Totally.
That's me too.
Totally guilty.
Yeah.
Yep.
Uh, well, I do hope, uh, that I will be able to make one of these events sometime soon.
(05:55):
That would be so lovely- That'd be cool … to give myself that permission.
Yeah.
But also for anyone who's listening I will put some details 'cause I, I think it's really important.
Yeah.
I think it's really important for all of us to, to allow- Mm-hmm
ourselves to have that time and space.
It is.
So- Mm, very cool.
Watch this space.
Look out.
(06:15):
Now, considering that you do have all of these backgrounds and areas that you work in and resonate with, it must be such an interesting question to consider when you have someone like me go- Yeah … "What does a creative space mean to you?"
I know, right?
Because one is very, yeah, as a dancer, obviously- Yeah … the expectation that there needs to be an actual space.
(06:40):
Yeah, a big studio.
Yeah.
A big open space.
Yeah.
But, uh, obviously as an illustrator, as a writer, like, that could be a different space again, and I don't want to lead the question.
But, uh, yeah, I'm curious of what that means to you.
I think it does stem back to my dance career, as the space would be a beautiful, big open studio.
(07:01):
There's no clutter.
It's open, it's organized, it's clean, it's lots of light.
K- kind of ready for you to fill it up with movement and magic and emotion and just some kind of s- some- something from you, in that respect.
And I think that's kind of trickled into now my art career, where even when I was dancing in Paris and just still creating on the back burner, even though I was, like, living in this tiny apartment, and I'd have a space the size of a toilet, basically, It would still be super organized, clean, open, not cluttered, and that's when I could create.
(07:43):
And when I'd finish, I'd put everything away and, and then be all like that again, basically.
, I could create anywhere.
But I have to start off with a, an open, organized, clean space, so I can then mess it up and get creative and get emotional and get whatever.
If that makes sense.
It- I think that's- Yeah.
It's so… i'm in the
(08:05):
background going, "Mm-hmm." Mm-hmm.
Because it resonates.
It's true.
It's like you need y- But some people, not everyone's like that, though.
Yeah.
People can just, like, be, just have shit everywhere.
And off they go.
But I'm just like, it's too much in my head.
I'm like, "I need, I need to make that space visually so I can…"
I don't know.
Yeah, no.
I, I hear you.
I hear you.
(08:26):
Yeah.
It's almost like, yeah, you've, you're allowing there to be the- The canvas … blank page.
Yeah.
The canvas.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Now, I am fascinated if there is a particular body of work or something that you are the most proud of creating?
(08:46):
Gosh, there's, there's so many things that I-
I love and I, I guess I'm proud of, like, every project that I've collaborated with or, or created with.
Um, I just… I'm very grateful.
I'm very excited and passionate and all those wonderful things as a creative.
What I find is easy or normal or anybody can do it, apparently it's not looked at that way.
(09:13):
So I have a special thing called Tailor Made Soul Stories where I will sit with the person, have this beautiful conversation.
There's no rules other than creating a s- nice, open, safe space, make them feel comfortable, and get them talking about anything.
And whatever they feel comfortable with sharing with me, that'll eventually come up, and from that I will pick out bits and pieces, what I think is their story, and then start piecing together a t- a, a soul stories in my way of writing and creating.
(09:53):
And it's not just about me creating it, because the Tailor Made Soul Stories is actually a collaboration with the person I'm working with.
So from that initial story, I'll then present it back to the person, and they'll be like, "Nah, completely missed the ball," or, "Yes, this is great," and they'll tweak it.
And I'll go back and forth with us both.
(10:13):
It could be done in two shots.
It could be done in one shot.
It can be done in 10 shots where we go back and forth until we're both happy with how the story sounds, what it represents, whether it's a gift for somebody, whether it's their own personal story, whether it's…
There's so many reasons who the, the, the piece is for.
But, um, once we're both happy with that, I then take over a little bit by then creating the illustration behind it.
(10:38):
But before that I'll ask, "Are there any shapes, colors, symbols, signs, anything that means something to you or the other person which you might want sort of- To what, you know, uh, mixed into the, into the illustration.
And then from there I draft something.
I'll then present the draft and have their approval.
(10:58):
"No, can you change that a little bit?" Or da, da.
So basically they're creating it.
It's a, it's a part of them as, as, as much as a part of me.
So then from there I'll then finish off the whole piece, and it's their personal story that's, that they've actually created as well.
So it's real- it's very intimate, it's very special, emotional, and sometimes it's easier to open up and talk to a stranger, and there's no judgment.
(11:29):
And so that's why I get a lot of out of people, um, with no pressure or, in that respect.
And I think that's what I find is something very easy and, not easy, it's my most stressful thing and my most amazing thing that I love to do, 'cause you wanna get their story and picture exact- It want, you wanna represent them in the best way you possibly can and, you know, it's their story so you wanna get it right.
(11:54):
Do you know what I love?
It's like you're painting with other people.
It is, it is, it is.
Totally is.
Yeah, you're right.
It totally is.
But part of that is also it's a beautiful gift that you have to be able to hold space for people and have a very safe space to do that.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's massive.
I guess so.
I, I take it for granted, I think, which I'm grateful for, I really am.
(12:18):
But, um, I don't think anyone can do it.
But not everyone is.
But not everyone is.
That's right.
That's the difference.
That's the difference.
So I wasn't even going to, um, yeah, talk about that, but I've talked about that, so that's- Oh.
Like, that's…
Yeah.
Is there more things that you're proud of?
Well, I was gonna actually talk about the reset here.
(12:40):
Oh.
But, um, yeah.
Yeah, please do.
I did a session at a really amazing place called the, the Tolman Wellness Center, where I water fasted for two weeks.
I've dabbled in water fasting before in that respect, but this was the longest I'd ever done it.
And within the session there I did an art therapy class, and all these things happened, and basically, we had to draw our future, and I drew this place, this, this big house, massive big windows.
(13:11):
And normally I draw my ocean waves big, like silly, fun, you know, waves like this.
But instead, I drew just really tiny little ripple-y water parts and I said to the art therapist person, I said, "There's no one else there, though," 'cause people were drawing couples and families and all that kind of…
(13:31):
Said, I said, "You know, there's, it's just me.
But there's all these other people there that are being invited into the space, but I'm just the one that's holding the space.
Like, there's no boyfriend or whatever." You know, "There's, there's no other person, just me." Anyway, like two years later wasn't looking for a place to buy at all in my little ho- hometown, Hayfield.
(13:51):
It's beautiful as it is.
I was like, you know, I couldn't see myself investing in a place here.
And just by chance, I had an alert on my emails and, , I saw some photos, and I was like, I was overseas at the time, come home, arranged a meeting just for fun, you know.
Go check out this place with some cool photos.
I walked in here.
I walked here, and just like, I was like, "Holy shit." And I just saw, I saw it all.
(14:16):
I saw- You saw the future.
I saw the, the, the, the, the stretching classes.
I saw the nature walks by the wetlands just down there, the little water.
, I just saw everything, and I was like, "Holy shit." And I had the help of my stepdad to help invest into it and basically bring fru- fruition this amazing soul stories reset, where I could invite people into this space and offer these beautiful modal- modalities and my way of life of, you know, dabbling in clean eating or fast- water fasting or hot/cold therapy or stretching classes or meditation or nature walks.
(14:53):
Basically, all the feathers I've been collecting my whole life.
It all just made sense.
It just… It was wild.
And then it u- I clicked a few days later, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I've drawn this place." And I pulled out this old drawing in my, art therapy class a couple years ago, and it was basically, it looks like this place.
And I mean, I believe in manifestation and visualization and all that jazz, but- it just blew my mind that it's really possible in that respect.
(15:22):
And yeah, so I'm super… I'm- I've been working so hard.
I've kind of been creative, like all my art, like painting, drawing, writing, has been on the back burner, and I've been putting a lot of energy and work into getting this place and space right down to detail.
All the… Lots of little love notes all around the place.
All these special things that mean something to me that people will pick up on and notice and makes their stay more comfortable and allows them to open up and get curious and share beautiful conversations.
(15:53):
I think conversation is the biggest thing.
To slow down, open up, have conversations, empty our bodies to see what really comes out in that respect.
Mm. So that's a long, that's a long answer to your question . No, but it's, but it's true, and about how, yeah, you need to slow down to allow- Yeah … for creative conversations- That's right
(16:14):
or to, like, tap into that.
And yeah.
So we also spoke about, off camera, about how, as creative beings- Yeah … there comes that point potentially as we get a bit older where we're maybe not taking as much from community- Yes … and now we're trying to facilitate- Yeah … more in community- That's so true
(16:35):
and bring people together and hold space for that.
Yeah.
And, yeah, it's just so lovely to see that you're able to, exactly what you said, all of these feathers in your bow, all your history- Yeah … to be able to hold all of that space all together.
Yeah.
And that's so lovely.
Yeah.
Makes me happy.
Yeah.
Makes me happy.
(16:55):
That's what we want.
We don't want the tortured artist trope.
No.
No.
No.
We wanna thrive, not survive.
Yes.
We can share that,
100%.
Yeah.
100%. But off the back of obviously things that we're proud of, and you have so many, I am curious, and I ask this question of everyone that I have through the poddy doors- Yes … is what's something that's challenged your creativity?
(17:30):
And I'm really curious about how you've tried to get over that or mitigate that, or if you've got any sort of advice.
For the first time in a long time everything's been really quite calm and peaceful and boring Quote on quote boring.
(17:52):
Which is fine.
Yeah, yeah.
We like boring, trust me.
Yeah, yeah.
You would think that in the middle of, like, the loss of your mother, the walking out of your husband, the return to Europe of, you know, after 10, 12 years, like extreme sadness and extreme happiness you would struggle to create.
I don't know, it just seems like very chaotic and very just stressful and very emotional.
(18:16):
But that's when I've realized I actually thrive and I can create by tapping into my emotions at the time, and it just pours out of me, whether it's heartbroken stuff, sad stuff, to exciting, hopeful but yeah I've just realized n- not long ago, I'm like, everything's really still right now, and it's just not pouring out of me in the same way.
(18:45):
I can still, like, grab a brush and paint something, but, but it's just, I've just noticed it's very different.
So I guess when there's no cr- when, when there's no extreme stories in my life at the time maybe it's a little bit maybe harder, diff- more diff- different.
I'm always creating.
I don't… I, I find it very easy to, not have writer's block, not have some kind of blockage in that respect.
(19:11):
Mm. But- And do you think that is a way of life for you, a mindset?
How do you think you are able to be able to tap into that so freely?
And I love that terminology of, like, dropping into creativity.
Yeah.
It seems to me that that flow state from you is quite fluid.
(19:32):
Yes.
Has that always been the case for you, do you think?
I think so.
I was lucky with, I got to express myself through dance.
So verbally, not so good.
But through movement, oh, get me on a stage, put on some beautiful music, and I can show you exactly what I'm feeling.
And I think from there, I was able to translate it through into beautiful words on paper, and beautiful emotive creatures and, paintings, and in that respect.
(19:59):
So I've always had a way to express myself, and that's always been-
movement in some way.
- I think that's a really good point that you make because I can really resonate with that.
It's like when you don't have nearly as much, uh, quote-unquote, "drama" in your life- … the exercise of channeling someone else's- Yes … journey or someone else's story or someone else's emotions- Yeah
(20:25):
There's, i- if you start to not limit creativity by just what fully hits the sides with you- Yes … then you can tap into other people's journeys and emotions and- That's right … and, so then you've got infinite inspiration.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Your friends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very powerful.
But that's a, that's a skill to be able to do that.
Not everyone can lean on other people's story to do that.
(20:49):
Yeah.
But it seems like you're flexing that muscle- … all the time- Yeah … with, yeah, with beautiful soul stories.
She's like, "I'm already, I'm already doing that."
But like all of this, I think, any time that we are challenged by a little bit of a blockage or maybe not the same movement- Yes … that's happening that we're used to a lot can be said for just the practice of doing- Yeah … and making that space to, uh, like you said, maybe not as fluid to create in certain instances, but you can still pick up a brush- Yeah
(21:23):
and you can still paint.
Do something.
And a lot can be said for that, to not be waiting for the- Magical moment … yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just go through it and it'll, it'll- It'll come … it'll come.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, I always find it funny asking this question.
Do you?
'Cause some people are like, are really logical around it- Okay … and others I get some odd bods sometimes- … and I'm like, "Yes, I like it." But is there an object or thing that you can't live without when you're creating?
(21:58):
Object, no.
Thing, absolutely.
Again, it stems from dancing.
Music is my instigator.
Interesting.
It- Tell me more.
I think,
I mean, as, as beautiful as art is in so many ways, I think music is the instigator of so much… of emotion.
(22:24):
So to dance, I need that music.
I mean, I know you can dance without music, no problem.
But that music just inspires you to like, ah to give, to express, to show you how you're feeling, and that when I'm creating, writing, drawing, painting, music in the background, that's a…
it's a must.
(22:44):
It comes through into all my creations.
So that for me was… that's an easy question.
For me, it's music.
It's everything.
It's… Yeah.
Have you got particular artists or genres that really resonate with that flow state?
Yes.
Big singer-songwriters.
So you know, Sarah McLachlan, Damien Rice, Glen Hansard.
(23:10):
Oh there's so many.
So, so many.
They're so good.
I love this.
Newton Faulkner.
Oh.
Oh.
Cream of the crop.
So nice.
So, so yeah, just crank that up and I'm gone for like, hours can pass, no problem.
Yeah.
I notice that you have a record player here.
(23:32):
Yay.
Yeah.
And that is something that, it's like the slow way of palating music.
Yeah.
'Cause you have to be intentional.
Yes.
And you have to be present, 'cause otherwise- Yeah … suddenly we need to go to B side- Yeah.
… or A side- Turn it around … and you need to turn it around.
I know.
Uh, and it's really, really purposeful.
(23:54):
And yeah, I think that really solidifies what you're saying about music is everything.
Yeah.
'Cause I'm seeing it.
Yeah.
I'm seeing it.
And also when I walked in, you had music blaring.
I was like, "Yeah." "She's my girl." Oh, no.
Actually, um, I s- I've always gifted l- a lot of people records.
(24:14):
And so, and I never had a record player.
I was always moving around in different places and spaces.
So, and then it got to a point of, of setting up this beautiful space, and I'm like, " Oh my gosh I'm gonna buy a record player, and I wanna start collecting records."
And lucky for me, my, me, my stepdad had an old stash of so many records up in the top shed area.
(24:36):
And that's why I went through and pulled out all these cool records.
And I've invested in a few myself recently as well.
But, um, yeah, so I'm totally new to getting into it, but it's something that I've always wanted to do.
And I'm like, "Let's do it now." There's no, never not the right time to do it.
Very new, but I'm very excited about it.
Hey always an opportunity to start.
(24:56):
Yes.
It's so beautiful looking at the artwork.
Yeah.
And yeah, I don't know, just again, holding space for it is really lovely.
Thank you.
Now,
if you could give one piece of advice, or like a nugget of gold, to another creative, what would it be?
That's mean.
There's so many, like, golden nuggets we wanna give at this point of our careers, so… But I have this written on my Facebook profile.
(25:23):
Showing my age here.
So I'm gonna go with this one.
The answer's always no unless you ask
Interesting.
Oh, yeah And how… Was there a particular time that you were in that that came to you?
No.
I find that I'm Not afraid to ask for help when it comes to my passion, my, my, my art helping others.
(25:53):
I, I have a strength in cold calling into little stores and wanting to stock my stuff, as opposed to email and on the phone.
Get me in front of a person in their store and at first they're like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, it's fine."
And then they… Uh, we start talking and I'm like this, and now I'm all inspired, and I'm like, you know, just naturally, and then by the end of the conversation, "Oh, we'll just take a couple of those, shall we? See how that goes." So that would never have happened unless I had not asked.
(26:24):
So I guess that's one of the main, you know, obvious realizations in that respect.
But yeah, it's it's… Unless you ask, you will never know.
So might as well ask.
What's the wo- Think … yeah, exactly.
What's the- And what's the worst?
They- That's the worst … say no and you go- No … "Okay." "Okay, bye." "Ne- next." But I mean, like, like, I could have said a million things, but I think that's my, my go-to.
(26:50):
Don't be afraid to ask- Mm
because more often than not, there'll be a yes eventually.
And I guess it comes from the dance as well, through auditions and, , contracts.
Be like, "No thanks. No thanks. No thanks," and there'll be a yes eventually, so just keep going.
And that is one huge lesson as creatives- Yep … that we the sooner that we learn that it's just, you just keep plodding along- Yeah
(27:15):
and that, you know, it might take 41 nos before we get the right one- That's right … that says yes.
Yeah.
And then- Yeah … it doesn't matter that you've had 41 nos.
No, exactly.
You've just got the one yes.
You gotta get that one yes.
You just gotta get the yes.
Hey, I could keep going for another- Yeah.
… few months, you know?
Like, go on.
I know.
I know.
But it, it builds up that whole, you know, character building, perseverance, dedication, stamina.
(27:42):
Resilience.
Resilience.
Oh my gosh, yes.
It's huge- Yeah … these days and age.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Huge.
And it's that thing of you don't wish anyone to go through the hardships, but there is something about knowing how far you can go.
Yeah.
And just having that belief in yourself, and once you've done it once, and you do it a few more times.
(28:03):
Yeah.
Huge.
I got this.
Yeah.
I can do it.
Yeah.
I can persevere.
Yes.
I can keep asking.
That's right.
Have to.
Exactly.
Yeah.
'Cause what would we be if we weren't doing- I know … all this beautiful work?
I know.
That's it.
Mm. Wouldn't change it for anything.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh.
Now you've obviously done traditional education in regards to dance.
(28:28):
Yes.
And- Dancing, yes … yes.
Um, so you obviously understand the ways in which, you know, structured learning is.
Yes.
But I'm curious if in of all of the other spaces that you're in if there's any resources and recommended pathways that you…
(28:51):
If someone were to do what you do, which is so many things.
But yeah, is there anything that you would recommend?
So I think as I said, as you noted, that dance is probably the only structured training I've had, 'cause I left school at, at year 10 and then carried on my dancing career and training to then have a career, which was classical ballet and then into every other aspect of dance.
(29:16):
But then after that, everything I've then worked in or created has been intuitively or by feel or by, again, just showing up and practicing over and over and over again.
And like anything, you get better when you keep putting in the work.
So where am I going with this?
So for me I'm not attracted to traditional learning in sense.
(29:39):
I wanna, , say that many moons ago I was reading a wonderful book called The Leap Stories where it asks 13 Australians who have made a leap in their working lives exactly how and why they did it practically, financially, and emotionally.
, And I came across a wonderful terminology of learning, which I relate to wholeheartedly which Karen Tate, founder of the Slow School of Business, coins as free range learning.
(30:07):
Which of course isn't for any- everyone, but, , maybe someone out there who struggles to learn in a more structured way, it could be helpful.
I'm gonna quote her.
-Which explains it perfectly.
So she says, "I studied a diploma of marketing while I was, I was working in banking many years ago, but I don't subscribe to most formal learning models anymore. I prefer what I call free-range learning. I can watch three documentaries, read one book, attend two interesting events, watch five TED Talks, read a dozen articles, and have three pr- profound phone calls or meetings with edge thinkers in just one week."
(30:46):
I mean, she goes on, I don't know, like, "I take from each of them the nugget of wisdom required to build my own knowledge.
I draw on my own emotional and spiritual reserves in making decisions personally and professionally.
I avoid mainstream media and have been as dedicated to unlearning the old as I am to learning the new.
I believe we have a long way to go to reinvent learning.
(31:09):
Plato said, 'All learning has an emotional base.' I believe in that 100%, and we should be studying the, the revolutionary thinkers of the world for insights into the new world we are emerging into." And then she goes into, "I don't like the style of business education that is around at the moment.
The five steps to seven figures stuff "This has been the fuel for me to build the Slow School movement." And she goes on to talk about her career.
(31:36):
So I really love that, that free l- range thinking.
I've, you say you don't study something or go to an official university or whatnot, but we're lucky we're living in the day and age that we are where there's just so much information to tap into.
It's all there, but it's a matter of us moving forward to ask the questions, get curious, lean into reaching out to a certain person.
(32:01):
There's just so much, and I love that way of learning Now, one last question.
Oh.
If you could throw someone's hat in the ring to come onto the poddy and answer these questions- Yes … who would it be and why?
I would have to say… Actually, you might even know this girl.
(32:23):
Are they an East Gippsland person?
No.
Oh.
They're in- I say this 'cause for those listening, we're in, um, East Gippsland Oh, yes.
Yeah.
And I grew up down here.
Yes.
This is true.
I probably should have thought of someone down here.
No.
Oh.
Don't be silly.
Okay.
Her name is Nina Ferro, international, national singer-songwriter, diva, voice extraordinaire.
(32:47):
Not only insanely talented, but extremely grounded, passionate, ridiculously kind and empathetic, and basically works her ass off in the most professional way to carry on with her career.
And not only that, she's been a massive supporter of my artistry, and she just wants to see all creatives win.
Yeah.
I love this when we champion each other.
I know, I know.
(33:07):
And the, like we both say, there's always enough for everyone, so why not, why not share and, and connect and, yep.
I heard a lovely I can't remember who I heard it from, but it's like there's enough seats at the table.
Yes.
There's enough seats at the table.
There is.
There is.
And all of us do it a little different.
(33:28):
I know, that's right.
Thank you so much for being on Through the Creative Door.
This has been such a vibe.
Thank you.
Thank you so mu- so honored and humbled to be here.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Oh, yay.
Yeah.
The crack goes the- Ah
I am so very excited to be here with none other but Tams.
We are in such a beautiful space, and for those listening, as soon as I got here, I pretty much got myself on the floor and set myself up.
We, we just- 'Cause I… We, it seems like we're both floor people.
Yes.
Suits me absolutely fine.
I love rolling around on the floor and-
yeah, just always stretching and just doing weird things.
(01:12):
Sounds perfect.
Yeah.
Sounds perfect.
Move our bodies.
Yes.
You are such a talented bear.
Aw.
I saw some beautiful, collaborations that you were doing, uh, down in Bairnsdale with the art space down there, and the people working down there.
Oh, Boundary?
Yeah.
Yes.
And I was like, "Ooh." And there's amazing… Like, oh, my goodness, if I can have all of those people- Oh, my God … in my poddy.
(01:35):
So good.
Watch this space.
I will.
Yeah.
But you're a multi-disciplinarian.
You're an amazing artist and illustrator.
Thank You have a, a dance background and, , so worldly, but the thing that was striking for me, was the fact that your art-
(01:56):
is really holding space for people when they're in the feels.
And allowing there to be an extension of that- Mm
that's, like, in, in the physical.
And I just adore it.
Aw.
Absolutely adore it.
So for those listening, if you have a chance, and I'll make sure that I put it in the show notes- Yes … and things.
There's a beautiful video that you have on your website that really just got me in the feels.
(02:20):
Aw.
Which I will never have the right words to explain how your art holds space in that way, and how you create the beautiful things that you do with story.
But yeah, I want people to see it- Thank you … 'cause it's very cool.
Thank you.
But I feel like I don't have… Like, what, how's the best way?
How do you describe yourself when people go… 'Cause w- we all hate that question.
(02:42):
I know.
It's like, "What do you do?" I know.
It's… and as, as a multi-disciplinarian, like, where do you start?
Well, I'm a dancer, I'm a storyteller, I'm an artist, I'm a painter, drawer.
I don't know, writer.
Now holding reset retreats type thing.
So there's so many things.
Which I saw, and I think that's so cool.
Yay.
Yeah.
(03:02):
So- Uh, you've got one coming up just recently, did you?
Um- Or you just had a group of them- I had one in June just recently.
Yes.
So I tried.
At the moment I'm in experimental stages, so, experimenting with once a month, one weekend a month.
And July I'll let slide by, but, picking up again in August and September, October, November.
Oh, I haven't announced November.
(03:23):
No.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's it for now.
So
you've got a lot going on.
Yeah, yeah.
Many feathers to my… I feel that this year for me has been a building year.
So, not as much creating as I would like, but creating in a different respect where I'm creating a space to invite people in to experience life the way I experience, and getting them to slow down, and through different modalities of art and nature walks, and stretching, and yoga, Pilates or, you know, if you wanna go and read a book in the bath for two hours and not do the, the hot-cold therapy or the da, da, da.
(03:58):
Go do that.
I want people to really sort of slow down and find inside themselves what they need, and they don't necessarily know that until they actually come here and figure it out for themselves.
Like, they come here with one aspect and then leave with another.
So- And that is so true about how we are as this modern society.
(04:21):
We're all in the doing, and- Yeah … our calendars are so full.
Yeah.
There's something about allowing ourselves to be, quote-unquote, "bored." Yes.
Yes.
And I, I, I use that word very loosely.
Yes.
But allowing space for your brain and mind and soul to imagine- Yes … to be creative, like, in, in whatever capacity that is.
(04:47):
Yes.
Exactly what you were saying about.
Yeah, it could be to read a book or to, to think other things- Mm … or just have, yeah, have that space.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, I love that you're really calling it out, and, and almost like giving people the permission- Yes … to hold that space.
I know.
We, we- And that's really special.
That's right.
We hold so much as doers and women especially too, we just hold so much shame to and guilt that we should be doing something.
(05:11):
You know, we should be utilizing this time, especially for kids or other people or whatnot, and just, we just forget to sort of take care of ourselves.
I know, cliche, but you know, put your own m- mask on first to take care of other people, but…
and I think this constant work- it's constant work of just, like, having these little inspirational moments and just being reminded all the time.
(05:33):
We never get to a point where we're like, "Okay, I've learned that now. I've got it in my back pocket. No problem." Wouldn't that be great- No … if it could?
Exactly.
Alas- Yeah … sometimes we relearn the lesson- Exactly … over and over again.
Over.
Yep, guilty.
Yeah, hand up.
Yep.
Totally.
That's me too.
Totally guilty.
Yeah.
Yep.
Uh, well, I do hope, uh, that I will be able to make one of these events sometime soon.
(05:55):
That would be so lovely- That'd be cool … to give myself that permission.
Yeah.
But also for anyone who's listening I will put some details 'cause I, I think it's really important.
Yeah.
I think it's really important for all of us to, to allow- Mm-hmm
ourselves to have that time and space.
It is.
So- Mm, very cool.
Watch this space.
Look out.
(06:15):
Now, considering that you do have all of these backgrounds and areas that you work in and resonate with, it must be such an interesting question to consider when you have someone like me go- Yeah … "What does a creative space mean to you?"
I know, right?
Because one is very, yeah, as a dancer, obviously- Yeah … the expectation that there needs to be an actual space.
(06:40):
Yeah, a big studio.
Yeah.
A big open space.
Yeah.
But, uh, obviously as an illustrator, as a writer, like, that could be a different space again, and I don't want to lead the question.
But, uh, yeah, I'm curious of what that means to you.
I think it does stem back to my dance career, as the space would be a beautiful, big open studio.
(07:01):
There's no clutter.
It's open, it's organized, it's clean, it's lots of light.
K- kind of ready for you to fill it up with movement and magic and emotion and just some kind of s- some- something from you, in that respect.
And I think that's kind of trickled into now my art career, where even when I was dancing in Paris and just still creating on the back burner, even though I was, like, living in this tiny apartment, and I'd have a space the size of a toilet, basically, It would still be super organized, clean, open, not cluttered, and that's when I could create.
(07:43):
And when I'd finish, I'd put everything away and, and then be all like that again, basically.
, I could create anywhere.
But I have to start off with a, an open, organized, clean space, so I can then mess it up and get creative and get emotional and get whatever.
If that makes sense.
It- I think that's- Yeah.
It's so… i'm in the
(08:05):
background going, "Mm-hmm." Mm-hmm.
Because it resonates.
It's true.
It's like you need y- But some people, not everyone's like that, though.
Yeah.
People can just, like, be, just have shit everywhere.
And off they go.
But I'm just like, it's too much in my head.
I'm like, "I need, I need to make that space visually so I can…"
I don't know.
Yeah, no.
I, I hear you.
I hear you.
(08:26):
Yeah.
It's almost like, yeah, you've, you're allowing there to be the- The canvas … blank page.
Yeah.
The canvas.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Now, I am fascinated if there is a particular body of work or something that you are the most proud of creating?
(08:46):
Gosh, there's, there's so many things that I-
I love and I, I guess I'm proud of, like, every project that I've collaborated with or, or created with.
Um, I just… I'm very grateful.
I'm very excited and passionate and all those wonderful things as a creative.
What I find is easy or normal or anybody can do it, apparently it's not looked at that way.
(09:13):
So I have a special thing called Tailor Made Soul Stories where I will sit with the person, have this beautiful conversation.
There's no rules other than creating a s- nice, open, safe space, make them feel comfortable, and get them talking about anything.
And whatever they feel comfortable with sharing with me, that'll eventually come up, and from that I will pick out bits and pieces, what I think is their story, and then start piecing together a t- a, a soul stories in my way of writing and creating.
(09:53):
And it's not just about me creating it, because the Tailor Made Soul Stories is actually a collaboration with the person I'm working with.
So from that initial story, I'll then present it back to the person, and they'll be like, "Nah, completely missed the ball," or, "Yes, this is great," and they'll tweak it.
And I'll go back and forth with us both.
(10:13):
It could be done in two shots.
It could be done in one shot.
It can be done in 10 shots where we go back and forth until we're both happy with how the story sounds, what it represents, whether it's a gift for somebody, whether it's their own personal story, whether it's…
There's so many reasons who the, the, the piece is for.
But, um, once we're both happy with that, I then take over a little bit by then creating the illustration behind it.
(10:38):
But before that I'll ask, "Are there any shapes, colors, symbols, signs, anything that means something to you or the other person which you might want sort of- To what, you know, uh, mixed into the, into the illustration.
And then from there I draft something.
I'll then present the draft and have their approval.
(10:58):
"No, can you change that a little bit?" Or da, da.
So basically they're creating it.
It's a, it's a part of them as, as, as much as a part of me.
So then from there I'll then finish off the whole piece, and it's their personal story that's, that they've actually created as well.
So it's real- it's very intimate, it's very special, emotional, and sometimes it's easier to open up and talk to a stranger, and there's no judgment.
(11:29):
And so that's why I get a lot of out of people, um, with no pressure or, in that respect.
And I think that's what I find is something very easy and, not easy, it's my most stressful thing and my most amazing thing that I love to do, 'cause you wanna get their story and picture exact- It want, you wanna represent them in the best way you possibly can and, you know, it's their story so you wanna get it right.
(11:54):
Do you know what I love?
It's like you're painting with other people.
It is, it is, it is.
Totally is.
Yeah, you're right.
It totally is.
But part of that is also it's a beautiful gift that you have to be able to hold space for people and have a very safe space to do that.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's massive.
I guess so.
I, I take it for granted, I think, which I'm grateful for, I really am.
(12:18):
But, um, I don't think anyone can do it.
But not everyone is.
But not everyone is.
That's right.
That's the difference.
That's the difference.
So I wasn't even going to, um, yeah, talk about that, but I've talked about that, so that's- Oh.
Like, that's…
Yeah.
Is there more things that you're proud of?
Well, I was gonna actually talk about the reset here.
(12:40):
Oh.
But, um, yeah.
Yeah, please do.
I did a session at a really amazing place called the, the Tolman Wellness Center, where I water fasted for two weeks.
I've dabbled in water fasting before in that respect, but this was the longest I'd ever done it.
And within the session there I did an art therapy class, and all these things happened, and basically, we had to draw our future, and I drew this place, this, this big house, massive big windows.
(13:11):
And normally I draw my ocean waves big, like silly, fun, you know, waves like this.
But instead, I drew just really tiny little ripple-y water parts and I said to the art therapist person, I said, "There's no one else there, though," 'cause people were drawing couples and families and all that kind of…
(13:31):
Said, I said, "You know, there's, it's just me.
But there's all these other people there that are being invited into the space, but I'm just the one that's holding the space.
Like, there's no boyfriend or whatever." You know, "There's, there's no other person, just me." Anyway, like two years later wasn't looking for a place to buy at all in my little ho- hometown, Hayfield.
(13:51):
It's beautiful as it is.
I was like, you know, I couldn't see myself investing in a place here.
And just by chance, I had an alert on my emails and, , I saw some photos, and I was like, I was overseas at the time, come home, arranged a meeting just for fun, you know.
Go check out this place with some cool photos.
I walked in here.
I walked here, and just like, I was like, "Holy shit." And I just saw, I saw it all.
(14:16):
I saw- You saw the future.
I saw the, the, the, the, the stretching classes.
I saw the nature walks by the wetlands just down there, the little water.
, I just saw everything, and I was like, "Holy shit." And I had the help of my stepdad to help invest into it and basically bring fru- fruition this amazing soul stories reset, where I could invite people into this space and offer these beautiful modal- modalities and my way of life of, you know, dabbling in clean eating or fast- water fasting or hot/cold therapy or stretching classes or meditation or nature walks.
(14:53):
Basically, all the feathers I've been collecting my whole life.
It all just made sense.
It just… It was wild.
And then it u- I clicked a few days later, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I've drawn this place." And I pulled out this old drawing in my, art therapy class a couple years ago, and it was basically, it looks like this place.
And I mean, I believe in manifestation and visualization and all that jazz, but- it just blew my mind that it's really possible in that respect.
(15:22):
And yeah, so I'm super… I'm- I've been working so hard.
I've kind of been creative, like all my art, like painting, drawing, writing, has been on the back burner, and I've been putting a lot of energy and work into getting this place and space right down to detail.
All the… Lots of little love notes all around the place.
All these special things that mean something to me that people will pick up on and notice and makes their stay more comfortable and allows them to open up and get curious and share beautiful conversations.
(15:53):
I think conversation is the biggest thing.
To slow down, open up, have conversations, empty our bodies to see what really comes out in that respect.
Mm. So that's a long, that's a long answer to your question . No, but it's, but it's true, and about how, yeah, you need to slow down to allow- Yeah … for creative conversations- That's right
(16:14):
or to, like, tap into that.
And yeah.
So we also spoke about, off camera, about how, as creative beings- Yeah … there comes that point potentially as we get a bit older where we're maybe not taking as much from community- Yes … and now we're trying to facilitate- Yeah … more in community- That's so true
(16:35):
and bring people together and hold space for that.
Yeah.
And, yeah, it's just so lovely to see that you're able to, exactly what you said, all of these feathers in your bow, all your history- Yeah … to be able to hold all of that space all together.
Yeah.
And that's so lovely.
Yeah.
Makes me happy.
Yeah.
Makes me happy.
(16:55):
That's what we want.
We don't want the tortured artist trope.
No.
No.
No.
We wanna thrive, not survive.
Yes.
We can share that,
100%.
Yeah.
100%. But off the back of obviously things that we're proud of, and you have so many, I am curious, and I ask this question of everyone that I have through the poddy doors- Yes … is what's something that's challenged your creativity?
(17:30):
And I'm really curious about how you've tried to get over that or mitigate that, or if you've got any sort of advice.
For the first time in a long time everything's been really quite calm and peaceful and boring Quote on quote boring.
(17:52):
Which is fine.
Yeah, yeah.
We like boring, trust me.
Yeah, yeah.
You would think that in the middle of, like, the loss of your mother, the walking out of your husband, the return to Europe of, you know, after 10, 12 years, like extreme sadness and extreme happiness you would struggle to create.
I don't know, it just seems like very chaotic and very just stressful and very emotional.
(18:16):
But that's when I've realized I actually thrive and I can create by tapping into my emotions at the time, and it just pours out of me, whether it's heartbroken stuff, sad stuff, to exciting, hopeful but yeah I've just realized n- not long ago, I'm like, everything's really still right now, and it's just not pouring out of me in the same way.
(18:45):
I can still, like, grab a brush and paint something, but, but it's just, I've just noticed it's very different.
So I guess when there's no cr- when, when there's no extreme stories in my life at the time maybe it's a little bit maybe harder, diff- more diff- different.
I'm always creating.
I don't… I, I find it very easy to, not have writer's block, not have some kind of blockage in that respect.
(19:11):
Mm. But- And do you think that is a way of life for you, a mindset?
How do you think you are able to be able to tap into that so freely?
And I love that terminology of, like, dropping into creativity.
Yeah.
It seems to me that that flow state from you is quite fluid.
(19:32):
Yes.
Has that always been the case for you, do you think?
I think so.
I was lucky with, I got to express myself through dance.
So verbally, not so good.
But through movement, oh, get me on a stage, put on some beautiful music, and I can show you exactly what I'm feeling.
And I think from there, I was able to translate it through into beautiful words on paper, and beautiful emotive creatures and, paintings, and in that respect.
(19:59):
So I've always had a way to express myself, and that's always been-
movement in some way.
- I think that's a really good point that you make because I can really resonate with that.
It's like when you don't have nearly as much, uh, quote-unquote, "drama" in your life- … the exercise of channeling someone else's- Yes … journey or someone else's story or someone else's emotions- Yeah
(20:25):
There's, i- if you start to not limit creativity by just what fully hits the sides with you- Yes … then you can tap into other people's journeys and emotions and- That's right … and, so then you've got infinite inspiration.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Your friends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very powerful.
But that's a, that's a skill to be able to do that.
Not everyone can lean on other people's story to do that.
(20:49):
Yeah.
But it seems like you're flexing that muscle- … all the time- Yeah … with, yeah, with beautiful soul stories.
She's like, "I'm already, I'm already doing that."
But like all of this, I think, any time that we are challenged by a little bit of a blockage or maybe not the same movement- Yes … that's happening that we're used to a lot can be said for just the practice of doing- Yeah … and making that space to, uh, like you said, maybe not as fluid to create in certain instances, but you can still pick up a brush- Yeah
(21:23):
and you can still paint.
Do something.
And a lot can be said for that, to not be waiting for the- Magical moment … yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just go through it and it'll, it'll- It'll come … it'll come.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, I always find it funny asking this question.
Do you?
'Cause some people are like, are really logical around it- Okay … and others I get some odd bods sometimes- … and I'm like, "Yes, I like it." But is there an object or thing that you can't live without when you're creating?
(21:58):
Object, no.
Thing, absolutely.
Again, it stems from dancing.
Music is my instigator.
Interesting.
It- Tell me more.
I think,
I mean, as, as beautiful as art is in so many ways, I think music is the instigator of so much… of emotion.
(22:24):
So to dance, I need that music.
I mean, I know you can dance without music, no problem.
But that music just inspires you to like, ah to give, to express, to show you how you're feeling, and that when I'm creating, writing, drawing, painting, music in the background, that's a…
it's a must.
(22:44):
It comes through into all my creations.
So that for me was… that's an easy question.
For me, it's music.
It's everything.
It's… Yeah.
Have you got particular artists or genres that really resonate with that flow state?
Yes.
Big singer-songwriters.
So you know, Sarah McLachlan, Damien Rice, Glen Hansard.
(23:10):
Oh there's so many.
So, so many.
They're so good.
I love this.
Newton Faulkner.
Oh.
Oh.
Cream of the crop.
So nice.
So, so yeah, just crank that up and I'm gone for like, hours can pass, no problem.
Yeah.
I notice that you have a record player here.
(23:32):
Yay.
Yeah.
And that is something that, it's like the slow way of palating music.
Yeah.
'Cause you have to be intentional.
Yes.
And you have to be present, 'cause otherwise- Yeah … suddenly we need to go to B side- Yeah.
… or A side- Turn it around … and you need to turn it around.
I know.
Uh, and it's really, really purposeful.
(23:54):
And yeah, I think that really solidifies what you're saying about music is everything.
Yeah.
'Cause I'm seeing it.
Yeah.
I'm seeing it.
And also when I walked in, you had music blaring.
I was like, "Yeah." "She's my girl." Oh, no.
Actually, um, I s- I've always gifted l- a lot of people records.
(24:14):
And so, and I never had a record player.
I was always moving around in different places and spaces.
So, and then it got to a point of, of setting up this beautiful space, and I'm like, " Oh my gosh I'm gonna buy a record player, and I wanna start collecting records."
And lucky for me, my, me, my stepdad had an old stash of so many records up in the top shed area.
(24:36):
And that's why I went through and pulled out all these cool records.
And I've invested in a few myself recently as well.
But, um, yeah, so I'm totally new to getting into it, but it's something that I've always wanted to do.
And I'm like, "Let's do it now." There's no, never not the right time to do it.
Very new, but I'm very excited about it.
Hey always an opportunity to start.
(24:56):
Yes.
It's so beautiful looking at the artwork.
Yeah.
And yeah, I don't know, just again, holding space for it is really lovely.
Thank you.
Now,
if you could give one piece of advice, or like a nugget of gold, to another creative, what would it be?
That's mean.
There's so many, like, golden nuggets we wanna give at this point of our careers, so… But I have this written on my Facebook profile.
(25:23):
Showing my age here.
So I'm gonna go with this one.
The answer's always no unless you ask
Interesting.
Oh, yeah And how… Was there a particular time that you were in that that came to you?
No.
I find that I'm Not afraid to ask for help when it comes to my passion, my, my, my art helping others.
(25:53):
I, I have a strength in cold calling into little stores and wanting to stock my stuff, as opposed to email and on the phone.
Get me in front of a person in their store and at first they're like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, it's fine."
And then they… Uh, we start talking and I'm like this, and now I'm all inspired, and I'm like, you know, just naturally, and then by the end of the conversation, "Oh, we'll just take a couple of those, shall we? See how that goes." So that would never have happened unless I had not asked.
(26:24):
So I guess that's one of the main, you know, obvious realizations in that respect.
But yeah, it's it's… Unless you ask, you will never know.
So might as well ask.
What's the wo- Think … yeah, exactly.
What's the- And what's the worst?
They- That's the worst … say no and you go- No … "Okay." "Okay, bye." "Ne- next." But I mean, like, like, I could have said a million things, but I think that's my, my go-to.
(26:50):
Don't be afraid to ask- Mm
because more often than not, there'll be a yes eventually.
And I guess it comes from the dance as well, through auditions and, , contracts.
Be like, "No thanks. No thanks. No thanks," and there'll be a yes eventually, so just keep going.
And that is one huge lesson as creatives- Yep … that we the sooner that we learn that it's just, you just keep plodding along- Yeah
(27:15):
and that, you know, it might take 41 nos before we get the right one- That's right … that says yes.
Yeah.
And then- Yeah … it doesn't matter that you've had 41 nos.
No, exactly.
You've just got the one yes.
You gotta get that one yes.
You just gotta get the yes.
Hey, I could keep going for another- Yeah.
… few months, you know?
Like, go on.
I know.
I know.
But it, it builds up that whole, you know, character building, perseverance, dedication, stamina.
(27:42):
Resilience.
Resilience.
Oh my gosh, yes.
It's huge- Yeah … these days and age.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Huge.
And it's that thing of you don't wish anyone to go through the hardships, but there is something about knowing how far you can go.
Yeah.
And just having that belief in yourself, and once you've done it once, and you do it a few more times.
(28:03):
Yeah.
Huge.
I got this.
Yeah.
I can do it.
Yeah.
I can persevere.
Yes.
I can keep asking.
That's right.
Have to.
Exactly.
Yeah.
'Cause what would we be if we weren't doing- I know … all this beautiful work?
I know.
That's it.
Mm. Wouldn't change it for anything.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh.
Now you've obviously done traditional education in regards to dance.
(28:28):
Yes.
And- Dancing, yes … yes.
Um, so you obviously understand the ways in which, you know, structured learning is.
Yes.
But I'm curious if in of all of the other spaces that you're in if there's any resources and recommended pathways that you…
(28:51):
If someone were to do what you do, which is so many things.
But yeah, is there anything that you would recommend?
So I think as I said, as you noted, that dance is probably the only structured training I've had, 'cause I left school at, at year 10 and then carried on my dancing career and training to then have a career, which was classical ballet and then into every other aspect of dance.
(29:16):
But then after that, everything I've then worked in or created has been intuitively or by feel or by, again, just showing up and practicing over and over and over again.
And like anything, you get better when you keep putting in the work.
So where am I going with this?
So for me I'm not attracted to traditional learning in sense.
(29:39):
I wanna, , say that many moons ago I was reading a wonderful book called The Leap Stories where it asks 13 Australians who have made a leap in their working lives exactly how and why they did it practically, financially, and emotionally.
, And I came across a wonderful terminology of learning, which I relate to wholeheartedly which Karen Tate, founder of the Slow School of Business, coins as free range learning.
(30:07):
Which of course isn't for any- everyone, but, , maybe someone out there who struggles to learn in a more structured way, it could be helpful.
I'm gonna quote her.
-Which explains it perfectly.
So she says, "I studied a diploma of marketing while I was, I was working in banking many years ago, but I don't subscribe to most formal learning models anymore. I prefer what I call free-range learning. I can watch three documentaries, read one book, attend two interesting events, watch five TED Talks, read a dozen articles, and have three pr- profound phone calls or meetings with edge thinkers in just one week."
(30:46):
I mean, she goes on, I don't know, like, "I take from each of them the nugget of wisdom required to build my own knowledge.
I draw on my own emotional and spiritual reserves in making decisions personally and professionally.
I avoid mainstream media and have been as dedicated to unlearning the old as I am to learning the new.
I believe we have a long way to go to reinvent learning.
(31:09):
Plato said, 'All learning has an emotional base.' I believe in that 100%, and we should be studying the, the revolutionary thinkers of the world for insights into the new world we are emerging into." And then she goes into, "I don't like the style of business education that is around at the moment.
The five steps to seven figures stuff "This has been the fuel for me to build the Slow School movement." And she goes on to talk about her career.
(31:36):
So I really love that, that free l- range thinking.
I've, you say you don't study something or go to an official university or whatnot, but we're lucky we're living in the day and age that we are where there's just so much information to tap into.
It's all there, but it's a matter of us moving forward to ask the questions, get curious, lean into reaching out to a certain person.
(32:01):
There's just so much, and I love that way of learning Now, one last question.
Oh.
If you could throw someone's hat in the ring to come onto the poddy and answer these questions- Yes … who would it be and why?
I would have to say… Actually, you might even know this girl.
(32:23):
Are they an East Gippsland person?
No.
Oh.
They're in- I say this 'cause for those listening, we're in, um, East Gippsland Oh, yes.
Yeah.
And I grew up down here.
Yes.
This is true.
I probably should have thought of someone down here.
No.
Oh.
Don't be silly.
Okay.
Her name is Nina Ferro, international, national singer-songwriter, diva, voice extraordinaire.
(32:47):
Not only insanely talented, but extremely grounded, passionate, ridiculously kind and empathetic, and basically works her ass off in the most professional way to carry on with her career.
And not only that, she's been a massive supporter of my artistry, and she just wants to see all creatives win.
Yeah.
I love this when we champion each other.
I know, I know.
(33:07):
And the, like we both say, there's always enough for everyone, so why not, why not share and, and connect and, yep.
I heard a lovely I can't remember who I heard it from, but it's like there's enough seats at the table.
Yes.
There's enough seats at the table.
There is.
There is.
And all of us do it a little different.
(33:28):
I know, that's right.
Thank you so much for being on Through the Creative Door.
This has been such a vibe.
Thank you.
Thank you so mu- so honored and humbled to be here.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Oh, yay.
Yeah.
The crack goes the- Ah
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