Big Blue Kickoff Live 4/3 | Oregon Prospects - Big Blue Kickoff Live | New York Giants

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Speaker 1 (00:04):
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Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Let's go on dog.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Big Blue Kickoff Live
presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the New
York Football Giants. I am John Schmelt, joined by Paul Detino.
Thank you for being with us, everybody, uh, talking Giants
football with you and taking your calls at two A, one, nine, three, nine,
four five one. Think we're gonna have Organs sideline report
he Dusty Harrow with us and a little bit to
talk about Argon prospects and Paul, we're gonna have to

(00:49):
do just like one question on each guy because this
I'm looking I'm being serious, there's probably at least ten
players let me see, four, five, six, seven, eight, Yeah,
I say nine players that will go in the top
three or four rounds of this draft. Like it's a
long long list of very good players that are going

(01:11):
to be drafted this year. I mean, Oregon's been one
of the better teams in yes college football the last
two years, and yeah, we're seeing why with this year's
draft class.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I had eight guys that I wanted to ask him about,
and you know, because quite frankly, I was trying to
be somewhat conservative. I didn't want to use up forty
five minutes with the.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Guy who are you leaving?

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Yeah, no, you know, I'm curious who are you? Jeffrey
basso Off I think is a pretty good inside linebacker.
I don't think he's a bad player. I just don't
think the Giants are going to be interested. No, probably not,
So he's the one I left off. I do wonder
if inside linebacker is a quiet need for the Giants.
Mike McFadden is coming up on the end of Jurkie deal. Oh,

(01:48):
Karaca is more than halfway through his contract. I wonder
if trying to get a little bit depth and they
don't really have a young developmental player at inside all. No,
you know, they have Moosaut from last year, So I
wouldn't I not be shocked if inside linebacker was like
a late developmental you know guy that can help on
specials and maybe develop into an inside linebacker type of

(02:09):
type of play.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Here a late third day fly or so to speak.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
I would say, fifth round.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Then later, okay, I could I could see that. Uh
I just in my own mind, I figured, look, we
only have so much time with nose guys, So I
eliminated the inside backer.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yes, and we will have him in just a moment.
Paul sent me a good text last night, the rule
suggestion proposal by the Lions to eliminate the automatic first
down from the all defensive holding the little contact penalties
that got voted down correct, not just table that was
voted down. Yeah, I'm not surprised by that, as all

(02:46):
the other NFL teams. So the Lions that you guys
come into the most of these healthies, and maybe we
shouldn't do you guys a huge favor here. So yeah,
that went there. There was a little piece of news, Paul,
I guess we can get to very quickly before we
get Dusty up here.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
There was a train there was in the division.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
And I know, Charlie, if you want to call today
you can.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, well, I look, I'm sure he's already got us ready.
On speed.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
I think he already called once this week, though, so
I'm giving him leeway to call second time because look,
he's been in on this, so he is the right
to call and talk about it.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yes, did you see the price? Though?

Speaker 4 (03:20):
It was not high at all.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, it was like.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
Nothing, which is why I think I don't think it's
gonna be as acrimonious with Charlie as as as we thought.
So the Cowboys said a fifth round pick to the
Patriots for Joe Milton and a seventh round pick. So
basically the Cowboys slid down. It was like seventy sixty
picks something, fifty pick something like that, and they get
Joe Milton. They needed a backup quarterback, now they got one.
So I think it's a trade that made sense for Dallas.

(03:44):
And like we tried to explain to people over the
course of the last two months, NFL teams were not
going to completely trade their change their draft evaluation on
a player based on one NFL game at the end
of the year against backups.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Correct. And I will say this the cot that came
out of New England that I saw, they signed Hobbs,
Okay Dobbs, Dobbs Dopps.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
They signed Dobbs eight Hobbs the quarterback. I know that,
and he did not go to doing which maybe if
you about Roy Hobbs, I was taking a Roy exactly.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
They signed Dobbs, and the story that I saw today
said that when they signed, when they signed him, they
told him he would definitely be the two and that
they were going to trade Milton. Oh well, okay, So
you know, as we discussed for many months here, especially
because Charlie brought it up like every other phone call,

(04:36):
Milton was indeed being dangled around the league for anybody
to make an offer.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
And I had heard that a friend of a friend
who knows someone in the Patriot front office. So there's
not something I was ever going to source, but something
that I had heard on the side, yes, was that
fifth round was going to be the sweet spot for it.
I was taken aback by that. I'm a little surprised
because I thought, well, if the you know, getting a five,
why would you just slip it on to him? But

(05:02):
the whole Josh dobbstaining and promising the backup job, maybe
that will give the explanation for it them, which I
thought was interesting. All right, So let's get to our
guest today talking some Oregon duck prospects. Are joined by
Dusty Howard. He's the Oregon sideline reporter for the Fan
ten eighty in Portland. Dusty, you got John Schmelk and
Paul the Tatino here in East Weather for New Jersey
at the Giants practice facility. Hope you were doing well, man,

(05:24):
thanks for being with us.

Speaker 5 (05:26):
Look, it's not raining in Portland right now, so everything
is good. Life is good right now. We have a
little bit of sunshine poking through, so everything's great.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
It rained here this morning, it did and last night,
that's for sure. And you know, Dusty, I was commenting
to Paul. We had our Alabama guest on yesterday and
we were commenting about how it's a much smaller group
from Alabama than usual. Well, this is easily the largest
group from Oregon that we've dealt with, where we probably
have you know, ten draftable players here. I'm not sure

(05:54):
we'll get to all of them with you, but we'll
get to as many as we can. I want to
start with Derek Harmon, the defensive tackle. I watched him
two days ago and man, he was impressive. Transfer out
of Michigan State. His number is just balloon and catapulted
at the moment he got to Oregon from Michigan State.
Just a really good two way defensive tackle. He can
stop the run, get up field. What was your experience

(06:17):
covering Derek the one year he was there? And what
would you tell NFL fans about him? Then maybe haven't
seen him play.

Speaker 5 (06:24):
Look Derek Harmon in my opinion, and look, it's gonna
be biased. That worked the sidelines and I got a
chance to see him up close and personal all season long.
But I feel like he was one of the most
undervalued and underappreciated defensive interior defensive lineman in the country
this past year. You look at his stats and his
stats won't wow you. His measurables. I mean, he is

(06:44):
six five and three ten, but he doesn't wow you.
But it's everything about Derek Harmon that is the person
in the player that it really pops, including like his
size at six five, three hundred and ten pounds, it's
standard size, right, he's big, but he isn't like wow,
you know he's but you go and you shake his

(07:05):
hand and it's honestly like holding a fifteen pound weight
in your hand. He's just got some big hooks for hands,
and you just you just your hand goes down and
you're like whoa. And then it's not making the plays
and all these tackles and racking up big numbers, but
it's when he makes them. Right. You go back to
the Ohio State game in Eugene where the Ducks won

(07:26):
and Ohio State has all the momentum in the world.
They're marching down the field and Derek Harmon pops in
the middle and scrapes down the line of scrimmage, forces
a fumble and that turned the tides of the game,
gave Oregon's offense all the momentum in the world, and
that ends up being a one point game. It's the
making place for other guys and occupying two offensive linemen
with ease in manipulating where they go to open up

(07:48):
a lane for linebackers to fill. He is a smart,
a headsy player, and I think that everything that he
did over the course of the year it was game
changing for Oregon. I mean, there's made no mistake that
thirteen to zero. It happened on the back of Derek
Carmon canceling the middle of the offensive line. Throughout the

(08:09):
entire Big Ten schedule. He is a phenomenal player and
he's a good young man too. From Detroit, went to
Michigan State, came out to Oregon, and he was open
for everything. All the coaches raved about him and his coachability.
But for me, everything about Derek Carmon is the intangibles.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
For him.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, you know, I see him in that next group
after Mason Graham, in the next group of really terrific
three technique defensive tackles, because that's what I would play
him at. I know he's got some versatility to his game,
but I would play him at the three technique in
the pros. His toolbox, his variety of moves, his get
off at the snap all very impressive for a man

(08:46):
of his size. But I would make him a three
technique and I know he can do more than that.
I understand the versatility.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Do you agree, Oh?

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Absolutely, yeah, I do. I think playing him in a
three tech would be probably in his best interests. And
it's because of you know, he doesn't have you know,
straight line speed, but he is quick off the ball.
In his hands. The heavy hands that he has, man,
it is hard to get claws on him, and so
he creates a lot of separation and he is his

(09:15):
bag is pretty deep in that regard of his move
that he can create with. So I think you're right
in that in playing him in the three is probably
where he he he sits. But you know, when I'm
talking about under rated, undervalued, you know, Mason Graham, Kenneth
Grant also Big ten guys. So you know that's why
you see Derek Harmon getting bumped down the All Big

(09:37):
Ten voting. It's really hard when you have these super
conferences now, you know, and there's Kenneth Grant and Mason
Graham in front of you.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I think for all those reasons we
just talked about, I don't think Derek Carmon's getting to
the giants at thirty four. No, I think he's going
to be kicked in the late teens and early twenties.
I think underrated based on on where he is. So
let's go to the next guy, another guy. I'm a
big fan of Josh Connerley Junior and I had a
chance to talk to you Josh down there at the
Senior Bowl. Dustin was after that one unfortunate rep he

(10:05):
had against Mike Green where Green caught him with both
his feet off the ground when he was trying to
short set him and he put him on his back. Look,
that's gonna happen. And I talked to him that afternoon
after the rep and I could tell he was still
really annoyed about it because I'm sure he saw the
social media stuff that afternoon after he got off the
practice field. And you know, we had a really good conversation.
I did not. I basically said, look, dude, it's one

(10:26):
of REP cares, like it happens, Like what are you
gonna do? And we had a good conversation, and then
I watched him more of his stuff on tape. He
is just such a smooth mover. Man. I think maybe
he can get a little stronger. He's only three hundred
five pounds or about three ten, but man, he is
really good feet and I think he is a really
high floor as an offensive tackle. What was your experience

(10:47):
watching Josh in his long career at organ Look.

Speaker 5 (10:50):
Josh came in and that week at the Senior Bowl
kind of epitomizes what Josh Connelly is right early in
the practices, he gets one bad rep, it goes viral
and there's every opportunity in the world for a guy
to shut down. That's just not who he is. He
ended up being voted on by his teammates, actually by
the defensive players as the best alignment that week at

(11:11):
the Senior Bowl. And that's who Josh Connelly is. He
came in as a five star recruit and very highly
touted at Rainier Beach up up in Seattle area, and
what ended up happening. He ended up coming down in
The offensive line staff raved about him. Mike Cavanaugh, who's
a long time offensive line coach, He's been at Oregon State, Syracuse, Nebraska,

(11:31):
He's been everywhere. He said, this Connorly kid is a
sponge and he raved about him. He's coached and developed
a lot of great offensive linemen his time, and coach
Cavs said he's the best. He's the best because he
has all of the physical tools. But it's the mental
side of the game that Josh Connelly really wants to
excel at and he wants to be a better football player.
And there's no resting on his laurels. There's no buying

(11:54):
into the hype that he was the number one offensive
tackle in his recruiting class. He came to work from
day one and that's kind of always been his process.
Is he's a grinder, he's a worker. You mentioned that
you still irritated about one rep in a practice where
he had a lot of them, and he was really
good on all of them, but it's that one rep
that kind of bothers him. His fluidity and his movement.

(12:15):
I mean, you can tell that he was a basketball
player growing up because he moves like one and he's
got great feet, And you're right, maybe put a little
bit more leading the pencil there and gain a little
bit more weight. But Josh Connery was as advertised when
he came into the University of organ as a five
star recruit, came in day one, was willing to sit.
He's kind of been willing to rotate and move different

(12:37):
sides of the line. But he has found his spot
and he was an anchor for this Oregon team. And
he is a special special player because it's feet and hands.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
I think I really like him as well, but I
think for him, he's going to be a better pro
because I think when his body matures and he puts
on more bulk and more power. To me, that's his
missing component. I thought there were too many times he
got muscled. He had all the other stuff. So when
he gets bigger and stronger, I think he's going to
be a terrific.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Pro I really do.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
All right, I want to go to the defense real
quick because I know we don't have a ton of
time here. Jordan Birched speed rusher and a guy who's
probably going to go in the second day and is
going to be a really good value as an edge guy.

Speaker 5 (13:19):
Yeah, Jordan Birch is is South Carolina transfer. He came
in and everybody thought he was going to kind of
maybe be a one and done the guy at Oregon,
but he's stuck around for a second year and his
tool set is big. I mean, one thing that sticks
out to me in about Jordan Birch's physically. He is
the guy that you look at and you want him

(13:39):
be first guy off the bus because he is a
looks like he is cut from stone, doesn't look like
there's an ounce of fat on him, and the measurables
all live up to it. But there's one game that
really sticks out to me, and I can't remember if
it was.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
I think the.

Speaker 5 (13:56):
Giants had a bye week, but Kevon Thibodeau was at
the u CLA game when Oregon played UCLA down in
the Rose Bowl and it was the very first Big
ten game. Kavon Thibodeau was coaching Jordan Birch from the
sideline every single snap. Yeah, he was yelling at him
every time he come off the field. He'd be like, hey,
you got to long arm him, Hey you got to

(14:17):
go underneath him here. He would those two guys and
they didn't play together, but they had. They connected really
quickly and that was a special game just to kind
of see the interactions of Kaevon sitting there on the
sideline yelling at Jordans as the offensive lineman is getting
in his set, He's like pass path, long arm and

(14:37):
it was one of those things where those two guys
kind of connected.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
People saw.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
You saw like the pro that Cavon has turned into
and that maturity is starting to grow. You saw that
feeding off on the Jordan Birch and you know, from
that game on, Jordan Birch kind of took everything that.
I don't know how long they talked, but whatever it was,
he may have just been during that game he took

(15:03):
something from that tool kid that Kaevon was sending him
from the sideline real quick, dushing him a different player.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
One thing that does bother me about him, though, and
I have a real stick thorn in my side, and
this has been for years and years and years, these
edge rushing pass rushing guys who don't really concentrate on
also playing the run. I see Birch as a terrific
defensive end with his hand in the dirt pass rusher,
but against the run, he doesn't show enough interest for me.

(15:33):
And and that doesn't mean he can't be a great
situational player in the pros. But if he's a big dude, though,
pull he's two hundred ninety five pounds, but he doesn't
I don't think he shows enough interest playing the run.
If he does that, then he can be a full
time player for me.

Speaker 5 (15:47):
Yeah, I think that that's kind of most most pass
rushers that are coming out right, is that it happens
a lot they fall in love with, you know, the
sack numbers and turning that corner and getting getting to
the quarterback. But I think that comes with once you
get into the pros, you know, the way that you
stay on the field is by defending the run and
using that big frame that he has. And I think

(16:09):
that's one of the big upsets that he has the
ability with his size to be a guy who can
become run support and kind of move him absolutely round
and he doesn't just have to be on the edge.
But yeah, I mean, I think you're right in that.
I think that's a common concern, as you said, with
a lot of these ed dressers coming out of the
college game.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
All Right, one of my guys that I think I
like more than other people in this draft, he might
be my tight end number four when all said and done,
maybe even three, and that's Terrence Ferguson. I think he's
just a really smooth mover. He's got good size at
six five, two fifty. Why do you think maybe the
production didn't necessarily meet some of the great skill set

(16:51):
when I watched him on tape? And why do you
think he might have more success in the pros that
he had in college?

Speaker 5 (16:56):
I think with tieferg is that guy is team first
with everything that he does, and I think that the
coordinator changes that he went through in his time at Oregon.
I mean, he got will Stein for two years, right,
the last two years he's had will Stein as his
offensive coordinator, and you saw his numbers and his production pop.

(17:19):
And one thing about mister consistency that is teferg is
that he garnered a lot of eyes and attention early
in his career because of his ability as a pass catcher.
And so there weren't a lot of the blazing receivers.
Tes Johnson didn't come around until two years ago, and
so they were looking for a game breaking receiver and

(17:39):
it was kind of all right, keep an eye on
where the tide end is at all times, and that
I think as he has grown, and he had two
years with will Stein and the system kind of started
to fit. And then they got a couple of receivers
in Tess Johnson Treshaun Holden to keep a defense honest,
his numbers really started to pop and he ended up leaving.

(18:00):
That's the thing with mister consistency, teferg Old reliable was
a guy that he ends up leaving Oregon with all
of the tight end receiving records. Well, yeah, I mean,
and that was that was something where you know, it
may surprise a lot of people. You know, the school
that has produced you know, Russ Francis and a lot
of steady and really good tight ends in the NFL.

(18:24):
Terence Ferguson left u OFO with the catches and I
think touchdown catches and receptions and yards for tight ends.
So he is a really good man, polished receiving tight end.
But he is a guy that blocking is one thing
that I don't think he got enough credit for. But

(18:45):
when he gets to the next level, we all know
that you got to be able to mix it up
because there's very few Travis Kelsey's out there that can
get away with just being the go to receiving tight end.
But teferg is a guy that he can block and
he'll make up and he's not afraid to do it.
He was He was a great guy to have around,
a good locker room guy as well.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
All Right, you mentioned a guy's name during that answer,
and you also mentioned Jordan Burch is the first guy
you want coming off the bus. Well, there's another guy
coming off the bus that you might not even notice
because he's standing between too much larger gentlemen. He might
just be too small and you can't see him standing
between the other big guys. And that's Ted Johnson, the
wide receiver. And look I don't have his combin measurements
in front of me, but I believe there was. It

(19:26):
was like five nine one fifty five something like that. Yeah,
So look, I'm a test Johnson believer. I watched the tape.
He's open all the time. I was at the Senior
Bowl and nobody could cover him. We do these quick
hitting interviews at the Senior Bowl, and I was given
Tes Johnson, and I was supposed to do five minutes
with him. We sat there for sixteen minutes. He was
such a good interview. What a good, smart, thoughtful kid

(19:50):
about football. He's going to figure out a way to
make it. Why do you think he can do it
despite the fact he's coming in as a player that's
significantly smaller than my produce or who's running the board
for this show right across from you, right now.

Speaker 5 (20:03):
Yeah, because it's hard to hit what you can't touch, right.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
Yeah, that's a great saying.

Speaker 5 (20:10):
That's tz right there.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Man.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
And he did not run a good forty and he
is not a good forty yard dash runner, but when
you look at his ten yard sprints, splits. When you
look at his thirty cone shuttle where he is quick
as lightning. Man, and that is what the separator is
with Tes. The other thing is you mentioned how thoughtfully
is and what a great interview. He's a smart kid
and he is very football smart, has a ridiculously high

(20:35):
football IQ. So the great advantage that offenses have is
that you know where you're going and you can get
a tell on the defense. And that's one of the
things that's the separator for him and always has been
because size has never been his advantage. He's been always
been a guy that you have to have every single
advantage between the years that you can create, and he
does that. Outside of that, he had a quote to

(20:57):
me after a game this year where he made two
guys miss right away and then he made an incredible
jump cut to kind of spring a big run and
I said, you know, take me through that process in
that play and he goes, well, you know, to be honest,
I catch the ball and I look for the third
guy because the first two aren't going to touch me.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
That's kind of how he operates. Has this ability to
kind of once he gets the ball, he knows where
everybody's at because pre snap, he knows kind of where
the first two guys are going to be coming from.
So his eyes go to number three and if he
can make number three miss, it's going to be a
big game. But he's also smart enough because he knows
the third guy is the guy that's going to clean

(21:43):
him up, right, that's going to be the guy who's
going to be able to deliver the big hit on
you because you're so worried about the first two guys
and where they're at. So he looks at the third guy.
If the third guy is going to get him, he'll
just fall down. He'll take the yard that he gets.
He's not going to get hurt. I think that's kind
of one of the reasons why he's he's got a
chance to make it in the NFL. It's gonna be tough.
He's small, he's undersized, but he is wickedly smart and

(22:05):
he has got great hands and a great route runner.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Speaking of undersized, Jordan James plays with much more ferocity, desire,
toughness than his five foot nine height will into keeps.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Honestly, he reminds me of Bucky Irving last year. He
reminds me of a lot of Bucky Herving. So does
that breakaway speed. So usually a.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Guy who's going to be that dimmutuative. They want more
speed out of him, but he is a tough runner.

Speaker 5 (22:32):
Yeah, he's gonna be a guy. And you mentioned Bucky.
Bucky was kind of that bowling ball and look, I
think for those who playing together it unlocked the lot
for Jordan, just kind of that ability to run behind
your pads and know who you are and have that awareness.
But the biggest stride that we've seen with Jordan James,
which I think will serve him well as he moves
on to the next level. And a guy that you know,

(22:54):
if you don't have that blazing speed and you're not
the explosive back, you've got to have all of the tools.
And he grew as a receiver tremendously over his time
at Oregon. His numbers won't aren't eye popping as a
receiving running back, but his hands were reliable and he
became a guy that you could keep on the field
longer because of that he is between the tackles. It'll

(23:17):
be interesting to see at the next level, right because
of how quick everything disappears and he is. He has
really good patients, but he's not a slow reactor. He
can find the hole and commit to it. And I
think that was kind of where things really started unlocking
for him this year, is you know, he would slide
down the line a little bit, wait and have almost

(23:37):
too much patience. About week three, that all changed and
he put his foot in the ground and he was
committing the yards. And I think that's where he's going
to be in the NFL. And it's not going to
be a powerback, but it's going to be a utility
back that he'll be in the next level.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
All right, let's go to the quarterback. Dylan Gabriel. I
asked you about Tess Johnson. I think I should ask
you about the undersized quarterback as well, because I go
to the senior ball and wo interviews on the field
after one of the practices, and man, you know, I've
been around a lot of NFL quarterbacks. I've worked with
the Giants in two thousand and seven, and he is tiny.
He is just not very tall. He's short. But all
week he was the guy that got the ball out

(24:12):
on time and pretty accurately over the course of the week.
Dylan Gabriel, why, despite maybe the measurements that don't wow people,
why do you think he.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
Can make it because just like Tees, it was a
situation where he growing up, he knew he wasn't didn't
have those measurables, right, he wasn't tall, and he's played
behind you know, six foot seven offensive tackles. Right, He's
played with you know, big offensive linemen, and he's a
big window thrower. And you mentioned that accuracy. A lot
of it is anticipation on his growth, and he's got

(24:43):
really good anticipation. But I think, like with Dylan Gabriel,
it's not this This quarterback class is not the strongest
quarterback class ever. But Dylan Gabriel is going to be
a guy who's going to stick around in the NFL
a long time because of his smarts. And then if
you talk.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
To him at this and your Bowl, you know, he's
got this ability.

Speaker 5 (25:03):
To read people and to adapt to whoever he's talking to.
You know, at the beginning, it may come off as
a little bit uh cocky. First time I ever talked
to him, I asked him how he's doing. He said
elite and just looked at me.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Like I've never heard of that before.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
And then uh, you know, he softened up because he's
he's from Hawaii, he's got those Island vibes about him,
where he's really laid back, but every single player on
that team connected with him. He's a guy that you
know in a world of nil with quarterbacks that drive,
you know, Aston Martin's and Ferraris. At some schools he

(25:43):
drove a minivan. And he drove a minivan not because
he has kids, but because he could pick up his
receivers and put all of them in the car and
say we're going to throw.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Oh, that's great. I love that.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
And and you ask why a guy's going to make it.
That's why a guy's gonna make it. You know, like
that is it right there. He isn't the biggest, he's
not the strongest. He has great anticipation on throws. He's
very accurate, very smart and quick with getting the ball out.
But it's the other stuff, it's the leadership. That's the
guy you want around your locker room.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, he's tough too. I mean, I think I think
all teammates love guys who are really.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
Tough, and he's tough, and I think you have to.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Be if you're going to play this game and be
the size that he's at. Knowing that these three hundred
pounds are going to be chasing you all day.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
Yeah, and look he's not afraid to mix it up
and defend his teammates either.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
Like that. That's one of the things that when he
came in. You know, here's a guy who's like one
year guy. Right, you know, you got a higher gun
at quarterback. And there is a game I believe it
was against Boise State, maybe in week two, and it
got chippy. He popped up and he got right in
the face of it. Was kind of a late shot

(26:53):
that he got and he popped up and somebody was
mixing it up with one of his teammates and he
got right into it. And it was like that was
the moment where it's like, all right, he's got everybody
else's back. And that's kind of the person he is.
I love the way he's wired. He is a unique character.
And he may lack height, he may lack the downfield

(27:13):
pushing the ball down the field, arm strength, but he's
got everything else that you would love to have in
a locker room and in your quarterback room.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
All Right, Dusty, I know we're running out of time,
but I need to ask you about the huge guy
in that Oregon locker room.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
That's the guy that Tess Johnson was hiding behind and
getting up of.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
The Jamari Cornwell, who is a typical right out of
Hollywood casting, big wide butted ghost tackle. This guy is
just a massive human being. And you know, look, he's
not going to play every down. He's obviously going to
be more like a Snacks Harrison was for the Giants

(27:50):
and the Jets earlier and you know, some years ago.
But you talk about run stopping downs, this is a
guy that you're going to want in there.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
He is he's a plug in the middle. You mentioned
why that guy takes up some space and some real estate.
And he's really strong too, And I think that was
the valuable part about canceling the interior of offensive lines
was him alongside Derek Harmon. They played really well together.
And Jamari is a young man. That that guy you

(28:21):
talk about the strength in the leverage, He knows how
to really play with leverage. He will be a run
stopping type guy. I mean, if they're not going to
take away the tush push from the Eagles, that's the
guy you want to have right in the middle of
the offensive line because he gets low He's very strong
and he gets a push backwards at all times. I

(28:41):
love Jamari called well in the middle, and he's his
feet are way quicker than you would ever imagine a
guy three hundred and forty pounds or whatever he's at
would be.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
He is.

Speaker 5 (28:51):
He's kind of a ballerina the way that he can
slide around back and forth too.

Speaker 4 (28:55):
All right, and I were right up against it. I
got ask you about Jeffy Bosso thinks he's another really
good defensive player that's a really smart inside linebacker. And
it's really tough to go and become a good NFL
off ball linebacker right away, just because of how quarterbacks
are constantly trying to manipulate that position. Why do you
think bass is somebody that can make that transition.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
He's going to be willing to play anything and everything.
That guy is. You want to talk about intelligence, you
get a chance to. If you ever get a chance
to talk with Jeffrey Bossa, you will enjoy that conversation
that you have. He's an articulate, well spoken young man
that like he's one of those guys that you wish
your daughter would date. Right your daughter brings home to
Jeffrey bossa and you're gonna be okay with it because

(29:38):
he is a handshake looking in the eye type guy
and he is a do whatever it takes. He came
in as a safety to the University of Oregon and
he ended up moving down into middle linebackers because in
Dan Lanning's defense, he wants that middle linebacker to play
fifty three and a third right. He wants them to
be able to go sideline to sideline and play all
across the field. So his speed is good up to

(30:00):
be a strong safety type, but he has the instinct
from the smarts he's a quarterback on that defensive side,
and he doesn't. He's not the tallest guy in the world.
He's not as big. That dude is cut from stone.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
He is chiseled.

Speaker 5 (30:12):
He is a hard worker, and that's what's gonna that's
what's going to do it. Jeffrey Boston may not be,
you know, a Pro Bowl type inside linebacker, but he
could be a Pro Bowl type special teams player. If
that's that's path he's going to go down, right. If
he doesn't find that fit on a team, he'll make
one for himself, whether it's on the defense or the
special teams unit. I cannot say enough about Jeff bosson

(30:35):
who he is.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Wow, that's a pretty strong endorsement.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
I appreciate it. Man. Thanks so much for the time.
This was awesome learning about these great argum players. Anyone
we missed that You really think we should talk about that?
We didn't ask you about You.

Speaker 5 (30:48):
Just want to harlem to the NFL. Johnny Cornelius. Johnny
Cornelius out of He's from Harlan, went to Rhode Island,
and he's a He's the tackle on the opposite side
of Josh Connor. Like late round pick. You need help
on that offensive line. He is a guy that is
gonna he's gonna stick and he's gonna find a way
to make it in the NFL. Under recruited another guy

(31:11):
who's just a sponge in that O line room multi.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Position value or no? Or is he strictly a tackle
multi position or strictly a tackle?

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (31:20):
I think he's a I think he's a tackle right now.
He's long, levers, really tall. But you know, depending on
fit and system, where he goes. You could try to
slide him inside, but uh, you know he goes at
six five three fifteen and you know he was the
guy that again was one of those long bodies that

(31:42):
probably started as a basketball player and they said, pack
this weight on you and see what you got.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
It's funny. Does he honestly thought you were going to
talk about Jabarmahammad, who I think is a could be
a pretty good slot corner. He like gets his handle
the football and awful lot too.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
So yes, him too.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
He's great, a lot of good plays.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Now go ahead, Dusty as No, absolutely, Jabbar is a
guy who his size. He is just about the same
size as Tez, but you look at everywhere he's been
and everywhere he's defended, he has had success. His size
won't determine his success in the NFL. He will be
a great He will be a slot corner. You're right,
and I think he has a good one. But this

(32:21):
draft class is different. I think it's kind of an
indicative of what organ was this last year. They were
some of all the parts right. They didn't have They
don't have a top ten pick this year, which they've
had top ten or top fifteen guys five years in
a row. This was a sum of all the parts.
They got a lot of draftable guys, a lot of
guys that would be good value late in the draft
because of the fact that one thing Dan Lanning and

(32:42):
his staff do, it's the character side. They want to
bring guys in that fit a locker room really well.
And that's kind of the common thread between all these guys.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
Dusty, awesome stuff. Thank you so much for being with us.
Dusty Howard Oregon s isylent reporter for the Fan ten
eighty and Portland. Well, you keep the rain away, you
have springs coming. Enjoy the weather out there, my friend,
then enjoy the draft. We'll talk to you so thanks
so much.

Speaker 5 (33:06):
Hey, thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's Dusty Harrah, awesome job. Good stuff out of him
there talking about and he's right, you don't have that
superstar Orgon prospect this year, but you have a lot
of guys that are a good football players.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
We'll make it great.

Speaker 4 (33:17):
John.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
You know, I like to say to a lot of people,
does the guy have a make it on a fifty
three man NFL roster? And this draft actually is typical
in that fashion. Yeah, there are so many guys at
so many positions, even some of the weaker positions, so
to speak, that are going to make fifty threes, even
though up top you're only looking at Hunter and Carter,
you know, or obviously Ward's going to be up there

(33:40):
because he's a QB. He's also very good. He is good.
He is good. I'm not saying he's not. But you know,
we talk about the two blue chip defensive players. There
are so many guys who are going to contribute to
NFL teams in this draft.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
No, I'm with you and just and if you look
at that Oregon team, I think Derek Harmon's gonna be
the first one off the board. Really disruptive pass. Uh sure,
I think he could go in the teams. Josh Connelly Jr.
Is gonna be the next guy. He's gonna go in
the twenties. He can be a walk in day one
starting left tackle for you. Jordan Birch, you mentioned it.
A good Day two defensive end who's physical, trades off

(34:14):
the charts. Maybe on a little bit more production, but
he's really a good player. You have Terrence Ferguson, who
I think is gonna be a Day two tight end.
He's gonna be a player that will eventually be a starter.
Tess Johnson, we talk about the lack of size and measureables.
But man, he gets opening, knows how to play. Jordan
James is gonna be a running back that can fight
for a starting job. Jeffrey Boss is gonna play linebacker.
Caldwell the run stopping defensive tackle. It's a team. It's

(34:35):
a bunch of guys that can help NFL football teams.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
It's a really, really good program they've got out there,
and you know, there are so many likable players, and
I look good for them, right, yeah, good for them
because as we talked about, we usually don't have a
long list coming out of Oregon that we did this year.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
All right, let's get to our calls here, Paul, But first,
for a mind there, go subscribe to the Johns Totle podcast.
Draft season is up there. As I mentioned yesterday Tony Poline,
I go through our top tens at all the offensive
positions in this year's draft class. We have Mike Rehdner
coming your way from about two thirty three today, so
check that out. Tomorrow, we're gonna have somebody else. We

(35:14):
got a bunch of everybody, have like three or four
set up, and I'm recording a couple for next week.
So we are rocking and rolling. As we move forward
here with the Giants Tittle podcast. You could find it
on your favorite podcast platform Giants dot com, slash podcast,
or just go to the Giants app. All right, let's
go to the phone calls and say what's up to
David Michigan. He will lead us off.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Hi Dave, Hey, guys, thanks for the great work.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
What's up?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
So? I had said a couple of weeks ago that
I really wanted with as a safe you know, he's
not safe.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
Okay, well you got it.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
We're the quarterback room. And then I said I much
prefer Wilson. We got both Rogers.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
There you go.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
So my question is how do I go about invoicing
mister Marra from my intelligence on these issues.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
Yes, because I'm sure that's where they got the.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Ideas from podcast and watching my tweet.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
I'm sure that's where they got all the ideas from David.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
All Right, Dave, so, who's the picket three? You want
to get your crystal ball out? Who's the picket three?
Since you're on a roll, I'm glad you asked.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
I'm glad you asked because if he's there, there is
absolutely no argument that they have to take Hunter and
here's the reason. We talked about how he's unique player
and all of that. But let me rephrase the case
for Travis Hunter another way. For five years, we have

(36:46):
in one player, two way depth that is unprecedented. So
if God forbid, Malik Neighbors goes down for or five games, hey, guys,
don't sweat it. We got Travis Hunter. If one of
our quarterbacks goes down for four or five games, no problem, guys,

(37:10):
we got Travis Hunter. I mean, that is so unprecedented
and value it is off to chart. No question that
you draft Travis Hunter if he's there at three. That's
that's one thing. Now, I also want to say something
about the quarterbacks. All of this talk about quarterbacks and

(37:31):
how they're gonna get you know, pulled a head into
the first round, the third round, guys pulled ahead to
the second round. Let me let let me, let me
offer a voice of reason here. We could go through
all the rounds without drafting a developmental quarterback. And here's

(37:51):
why we've got Russell Wilson. We've got Jamis Whinston, our
developmental quarterback. Now I will say this, I will accept
the idea, the notion that Brian DeBell is a better
judge of quarterback horse slash than I am. Okay, I
will yield that to the head coach of the Okay.

(38:11):
But but here's the thing. Tomy Divido is our is
our developmental quarterback, and he's won games for us. So
instead of overdrafting Jackson dart or the kids from Louisville
or the kids from Syracuse or something like that, how
about this. How about we take the absolute best, top

(38:36):
rated pick that is available to us when we picked,
and we beef up the rest of the team that way,
rather than taking a flyer in the in the top
of the first at the bottom of the second on
a guy we don't rate that high. So that's my Now,

(39:02):
I have one more question for you, and this is informational,
and I just don't know the answer. And here is
if we drafted a developmental quarterback and we're nervous about
putting them on the fifty three. Let's say we go
into the season with if you know, Wilson and Winston,

(39:25):
but we drafted somebody in the third or fourth round.
I realized that if you put them on the practice squad,
you make them vulnerable to no.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Da da Dave Day, time out. You're not putting a quarterback,
you'd you have to round three or four on the
practice squad. Tommy DeVito would go on the practice squad.
Actually he does.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Okay, So even if you put Tommy DeVito. Okay, here's
my question. So if the Bengals plam a quarterback or
any player that we have on the practice squad, does
the team have any time to react? In other words, okay,

(40:04):
the Bengals want our guy to practice squad, we have
to move him. If we want to keep them, we
have to move him on to the fifty three immediately
and put you know, and knock somebody, Dave.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
I can cut you off there, Dave. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
If a practice squad player gets up again, he's got
to be on the practice squad already. If he's waived first,
which he has to be, and he gets claimed on waivers,
he don't have a choice, no, though.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
He also does not have to sign now. If he
gets through waivers and goes to the practice squad, he
can turn down a team's offer to jump teams and
get promoted.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
And that's happened before. It absolutely has it happened with
Davis Webb. He turned out an offer from the Miami
Dolphins to go to the Act of fifty three, stayed
with the Giants, and the following week the Giants let
him start the last game of the season against the
Philadelphia Eagles. That's absolutely happened before. So you're talking about
a little bit of a technicality because if the player
is waived, which you have to be first before you

(41:03):
go to the practice squad, you don't get a choice.

Speaker 7 (41:06):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Oh, by the way, to your other point, I agree
with you, and so does Joe Shane when he said
you can't force the quarterback if the value isn't there
where you pick. Joe Shane told the people the other
day at the owners meeting, Pearson was there. He said,
you don't force it. So I agree with that theory.

(41:28):
Joe Shane agrees with it as well. But if there
is one there and they want to take a developmental quarterback,
they're going to do it.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
And there are levels to force a Yes, there's one thing,
no doubt. If you're picking thirty second and you know
he's the fortieth player, but your thirty seventh player is
still on the board, and there's only like two spots
separating them and you pick the fortieth player instead whatever,
who can I don't know if that's that's fine. Now,
I wouldn't pick a fourth round quarterback in the second round,

(41:56):
for example, right, But like, if you have a guy
as your forty fifth best player and you're sitting there
at thirty four, and you like him as developmental quarterback
and you know he's not going to be there in
the next round, you move him up ten spots, all right.
I don't know that. I would not have a problem
with that's fine.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I think your other point, and I don't really mean
any disrespect to Tommy DeVito, but I think he's a
number three in the NFL. I think we saw that
in his two years he's been with the Giants. He
is a number three. And look, he's a solid number three,
but that's what he is. Paul.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
You get back to, then, who is your quarterback in
twenty twenty six? Like that's a thing. No, I understand,
you're not just drafting for this year. You're drafting for
the future, and those two guys are on short term contracts.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
I would suspect that at some point in the draft
they will find somebody who is not a force and
they'll take one. I don't think that's likely.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Teams are gonna have these quarterbacks rated in all different ways,
so there's a chance that the Giants might have a
quarterback higher than the rest of the league and they
might not have to force it in one of these rounds. Like,
I don't know how that's going to go, So both
to wait and see two one nine, three, nine four
five one three. Let's go to Jim and new Jarry.
He wants to talk about Travis Hunter.

Speaker 6 (43:01):
Hi, Jim, Yeah, I mean great to talk to both
of you. Although it's weird kind of both My points
are sort of like Gave's, but they're you know, hopefully
a little bit more nuanced. Sure, I'll get to the
two points are. I want to talk to you John
specifically about Hunter as a receiver, and then both of you,

(43:21):
I want to talk a little bit about about the
another take on the developmental quarterback thing. So let me
just say quickly upfront, last time I spoke to you,
I also was in that when it was it was
you know, kind of the time when there was this
frenzy for quarterback, you know, at the end of the season.
The last thing I said to you was, you know,
just pick good players. And I really have to say

(43:42):
Joe Shane has won me over. Like I was pretty
down on Joe, you know, with I had to do
the long, you know, kind of monologue about things I
didn't like in the fall and stuff about players. But
he I don't know if he's a great rafter, but
I will say as an executive, I have a lot
of respect for him because you see how like the
NFL world has pushed the Giants to take Shador Sanders.

(44:06):
You can just everywhere you turn the Browns they don't
need your doors Sanders.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Oh no, no, the Giants, thank gotta have it just fairness.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
I feel like I've seen Sanders push to both teams,
to be honest with you, I think people are very anxious.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
Especially since we got Wilson that's definitely increased. But I'm
the saying that this is a compliment for Joe's Joe,
I feel like as an executive, he's made a lot
of smart decisions to put himself in position on side
of the ball where he's not desperate and yet in
terms of the draft, and he also I don't feel
was all that desperate in the contract, so anyway, just

(44:41):
good off season. Hopefully it pans out. Joe Shane, I
want to talk about obviously, in a dream world, you
get Carter, you get at thirty four, you know, something
like like Williams from Ohio State, and now your defense
is psychotic. But assuming the Browns take harder and you're
gonna have the king chance to get a Hunter there.

(45:03):
You know, I don't quite agree with Dave about the
idea that it's an immediate slam dunk with Hunter just
dropping him in in either spot. First off, it's just
hard to be a quarterback, especially one hundred and eighty
pound quarterback coming from the Big twelfth to the NFL.
He's great physical talent, but one hundred and eighty pounds,

(45:23):
and also from the receiving standpoint, you know, Dave Ball
runs a very complex offense. And you know, one of
the things people said is that one of the great
things about having Darius Slayton is you make sure that
you know lak neighbors knows where to line up. So
my question to you, and I'm hoping I can still
also ask both of us another point of course, a quarterback,

(45:46):
but Mike, but John, you do such a great job
with the draft breakdown stuff. I mean, like, I'm just
loving it. But when you like the NFL looks that
has comped Hunter to uh Devanky Smith, who I love,
and it killed me. He didn't get him, but he
played the FDC and off.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
He was super skinny.

Speaker 6 (46:05):
He was a craftsman.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Yeah, Jim, honestly, I am a route runner. I'm sorry
for druting. I haven't heard that comp but I as
in terms of the way they play the position.

Speaker 6 (46:15):
For him in the on the NFL draft, it says,
you know, for his receiver side, it says, it says
DeVonta Smith. And what I'm saying is is I think that,
you know makes sense. Like when I watched the BYU
playoff game, that horrified me about Shador, but when I
saw Hunter, I was like, holy smoke. But I just
I'm asking you, John, is let's imagine the situation where

(46:36):
we draft Hunter and he provides sort of psychic pressure
on t Banks, the hustler, do whatever he's got to
do to be at least a great QB two, and
he's death on the defensive side. But let's say that unfortunately,
you know, this still struggles, you know, getting off the
line for someone like a jail and Hyatt. So Gaball
wants to use Hunter as a primary weapon. When you've

(46:59):
looked at the take of him as a receiver, what's
your take on him? I've heard stuff like he's not
a great route runner. I wonder I've heard that the
offense was fairly you know, not simplistic. It wasn't like
you know, Lane Kippen, but then it was you know,
Patrimo is a professional. You know he coaching offensive woman.

(47:19):
But what's your take about about imagining Hunter as a receiver?
And he's the Bolitanic Off Award winner. If you put
him in Brian Dables' system, is he you know, how
how would that work? What do you think of him
that way? And then I just want to throw up
to both you guys, go more thing about development quarterback?

(47:39):
But what do you think about him as a receiver?

Speaker 4 (47:40):
John, I think that's a great question.

Speaker 6 (47:42):
But he's a generational talent. Like you look at him,
you imagine you're just draft him as a receiver.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
You know, I got you.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
I'm with her, all right. So I'm trying to find
where I have my Travis Hunter reported in my book here,
And I guess I have a cornerback, so let me
bring that up. So, yes, a lot of these you
said are right on Jim to be honest at the
end and stand by. This would be a long answer
that you can ask your quarterback development a question after
hang out. So yes, his receiver stuff at Colorado is

(48:12):
not that advanced. But there are a lot of layers
to this. Even though Pat Shermer was there, they don't
run a ton of route concepts all right, So he
runs a lot of jump ball stuff and basic deep
in cuts and stuff like that. There's not a huge
variety on his routes. Here's the trick. And I found
this watching his cornerback tape too. What did playing one
hundred and thirty plays a game due to him? From

(48:34):
a running perspective, Like a lot of these plays, he
looks tired, And I'm like, I can't blame him for that.
He's never off the damn field. So I don't know
what he would look like if he just played wide
receiver all the time. I also don't believe, in my
humble opinion, that he would And I will see. Maybe

(48:57):
he'll run tomorrow at the Colorado showcases at what they're
I don't think the corner, the corner, the showcase. My
guess is that he's not going to run a forty
yard dash. And my guess the reason he's not going
to run a forty yard dash is was he would
not run a sub four four five. I think he
is closer to a four four eight four five zero
type of player, which is fine. By the way, some
of the best receivers in the league run in the
low four fives. That's that's not a problem. So the

(49:21):
stuff that he's awesome at is just catching the football.
His ball skills, his hands, his body control. He might
not be and I think he's an explosive athlete. Like
his jumps will probably be really good, right, Like he
can get up to jump to get the football. His
acceleration is burst even of his long speed might but
again maybe I don't think his long speed is that

(49:41):
great because he's playing one hundred and thirty plays a game.
He's just not running full speed. So again it's hard
for me to figure this stuff out. But do I
think he is an advanced route runner where you can
plug him in he's gonna do all these nuanced wide
receiver things. No, but he is so unbelievably gifted from
an explosion ball skills by he control fluidity standpoint that

(50:02):
I think he will be an effective player right away.
You can make the argument that Ted McMillan right away
is going to be a better wide receiver than Travis
Hunter at the pro level. I can make that argument,
and I don't think it's a bad one. So I'm
just gonna read off my scatting apart real quick, and
this is what I have for him in terms of
strengths at wide receiver. Jumping ability, elite acceleration, can contort

(50:24):
body to make tough contested catches, use his hands and
body to separate at the end of the route with
the ball in the air to create late separation, elusive
to turn herself into a runner right after the catch,
very sudden verse press coverage. Finds open areas in the zone,
especially on broken plays. So he's good when Shador starts
to scramble. Good deceleration on hitches stronger than his one

(50:47):
hundred and eighty pound frame, draws a bunch of defensive
pass interference with penalties explosive. This is what my weaknesses
were when I looked in at a wide receiver, not
elite as a route runner, limited routree. Is he always
running top speed? What is his top speed? Dangerous after
a catch, but doesn't break many tackles. But again he's

(51:09):
only one hundred and eighty pounds, So I still have
him as a top ten level player in terms of
a receiver. So I have technic no one in that area.
Actually I think just outside the top ten. But so yes,
with Molikue neighbors there and Slaton there and while the
Robinson there, I think you could plug him in right
away and give him the type of routes that he

(51:30):
could immediately see and if you train him and look,
this is my hot take the other day when I
was on with at the end of the show at
Lance Paul that if the Giants draft Travis Hunter, I
think they might use him more as a wide receiver
than has a corner in year one, just based on
what the roster looks like.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I don't know if I said that to you were
a Matt, but I said the same thing early.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
Yeah, I don't remember you saying that to.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Me early in the season. And I think he'll make
more impact as a receiver.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
And I think with Russell Wilson here and Brian Able
trying to get the most out of this offense as possible.
It's gonna be tough for him to not use him
as a wide out. And considering you have Drew Phillips inside,
you have paulsing Thedebo outside, you think you're gonna have
better play out of Tay Banks with a new defensive
secondary coach. That's my gut feel with Hunter right now

(52:20):
in terms of how I think it's going.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
There may be more chances for him to get on
the field as a receiver as a rookie. I absolutely
agree with that, and he can make impact plays with
only a few snaps. But but there's one other item
I want to throw onto your list because I think
that's a very good list. They have a very complete list.
He has an unbelievable ability to attack the ball when
it's in the air.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
If I didn't say that, I don't, I meant to, Yeah,
jump balls correct, throw that on. I said ball skills.
That's what I meant when I said ball skills correct,
because and it's on both sides. Hunt well, that's why
he's such a good corner defense and offense.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
When that ball is coming to his vicinity, It doesn't
matter if he's on offense or defense. It's coming down
into that box. He decides it's mine and he will
get it. He will attack it. And I'll be honest
with you, the Giants receivers over the last decade have
not had a lot of guys who really attacked the ball.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Buris is really the last guy that was great at
that and next, no, next those great at it.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Victor wasn't bad out of either. That wasn't his game though, No,
but it was not his one not a primary trade
for Victor, but he wasn't bad at it. But that
to me is the one thing that just really stuck
out because when I were talking about a guy who's
six one six two.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
He plays a lot bigger than his size of addicted,
he actually did measure over six foot at the combine,
which was.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
What did they give him? They didn't give him six
to one though, did they?

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Well, it's not giving him they actually do measure them,
all right.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
You know what I mean? Anyway, that that would be
just the one item that I.

Speaker 4 (53:50):
I just I can't say enough about how he attacks
the ball. So anyway, anyway, okay, so what's your he
came just over six foot, like six foot I think
in three eights of it. Yes, like that. Okay, So
what's your quarterback developmental question?

Speaker 6 (54:03):
You'd like you to say, John, that was terrific you guys.
But because I agree that his hands are what I
really loved about Hunter, I really I think that's I
think that his great trait.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
But Jim, I stress this, if you get him Jay
real quick. I stressed that you get him into camp
and you tell him you're a wide receiver, he could
be get He could be an elite rat runner by
the end of camp. That's how good he can be.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Can I can I tell you one reason why I
think I know the reason why I believe and this
is my opinion. I know other I've heard other people
say it, but my opinion is that the Colorado offense
was as simple as it was on the rout trees
because Leon Sanders wanted to make sure that Pat Shermer

(54:46):
made the offense as good as it could be. For
shird door Sanders, I think it was the offensive line, okay,
and the offensive line certainly was I think it was.
There's no question about that. I think the line was
an inhibitor. But I also believe that combination of let's
make sure that we accentuate Chador's skills as much as possible,

(55:06):
let's kind of pare down this playbook.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
He's obviously Pat Shermer knows how to do more.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
He was in the leadut yes, correct, yes, And that's
why when you look at the Colorado tape, you're saying, geez,
I know Pat Shermer has more in his bag than that.
So I think it was the combination of keeping it
simple for Sanders and also the offensive line wasn't really
good enough to hold.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Up for the full playbook. I think Chador is a
pretty mentally sharp guy. I don't I don't think that's
for me. I would be surprised that. All right, Jim,
what's your quarterback? Dev on the question?

Speaker 6 (55:36):
Ye like, so anyway, what I was going to ask
you about the belment of quarterback is this. I was
listening to you guys talk with the Alabama the Alabama process,
so they talked about, like, you know, my feelings broadly
about you know again kind of with Dave in the
sense that I always think kind of the ghost of
Cooper Bebe, you know, who is that interior often defensive

(55:58):
lineman you'd love to have, but you watch him slip
away because you pick your developmental quarterback and he's you know,
I don't want like I'm not really sold on a
lot of these second matters.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
That's just me.

Speaker 6 (56:09):
I don't want to get into a debate. I really
want to get to what you guys think of this
idea though. So I was listening to the Alabama thing
and man alive. The only quarterback, like I take a
seventh round or something. You want to do a Milton
or a party or something six something that's fine, But
the only quarterback that I would consider at ninety nine
or below. I'm not thirty four. I want like Williams

(56:33):
or better or to pair up with Decks at thirty four.
But it's sixty five or ninety nine. And if I
couldn't find the running back I wanted, the guy who
is interesting to me is definitely Jalen is definitely Jayleen Milbroun,
because imagine him as like a super Taysom Hill.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
I mean I would pick him in. I would pick
him at either one of those spots, Jim, I'm.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
Yet And if you turn him in, if you convince
the league, he's going to hit the line and like
he's gonna run and then you can let him drop
beautiful like you know, deep passes every like that could
be to me a guy who immediately have a real
impact then a guy sitting on the bench. So I
think Milroe, like especially if he was somehow Sam howeled
and you could jump up from ninety nine by giving

(57:17):
up some stuff even maybe you know.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
Sixty five ish, That is interesting.

Speaker 6 (57:23):
I don't know if he's gonna be there, and I'd
only do it if he was there. I wouldn't do
it at thirty four. But to me, then you get
something that can really possibly impact this year.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Later.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
Thank you for the call, Jim. Look and I'm with
you you. Brian Dable will put a package if they
do draft Jaylen Molroe as a gadget quarterback, by the way,
I would if he's there at the top of the
third round, I would do that. I think it's worth
it because I think again, not only is he but
developmental guy. His running skill is special, like you can
and you know, Brian Dable knows how to scheme things

(57:54):
up for a running quarterback. We've seen that, whether it
was Josh Allen or Daniel Jones. So I would have
zero problem with that. And if I had to move
up one or two spots into the back end of
the second round, I would have no problem with that either.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
I don't think that I would, but I understand the point.
I think it's it's certainly has some validity to it.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Yeah, and again I think the real thing that tips
the scales for me is that he apparently is just
an a plus human being, just a great kid. And
usually when you're a great person and a great kid,
there's a good chance you have of getting better, Like
he's gonna works, bought off and do whatever it takes
to get better. So much like with jaywhen Hurts, but again,
Hurts was a much more advanced passer than No. He

(58:33):
came out. Yeah, his last year in Oklahoma, all the
yards he threw for just look at that. Yep, he
hit his faults, but he did have production, Yes he did.
I think you bet on those types of guys to
figure it out just because that's the type of guys.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
That they are, well, because they got the compensatory at
ninety nine. The third round would be an opportunity for
you if you wanted to take a little bit of
a gamble and a little bit of a.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Reach, Like if I had to know you have two
picks in the round, if I had to move my
fifth round to move up like ten spots to get him,
I would be okay, you mean to eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Eighty nine, from ninety nine to eighty eight.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
No, no, no, I mean from sixty four, oh, from
sixty five to like fifty.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Eight to move into the bottom of the second second.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
If you had to to get him, like wow, if
like all the if all the other guys are gone,
like yours is gone, and Darda's gone, and Shook is gone,
and you think one of those teams, like would you
be shocked at the Ravens took him? Would it be
a better backup to Lamar Jackson?

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Not all?

Speaker 4 (59:30):
My gosh, how could that be more perfect? Just or
the Bills as just as members up to Josh Allen,
the Steelers head, Cordeil Stewart, the original slash correct, just
remember that? Or how about what if the Commanders wanted
developmental backup you put him with Jayden Daniels. I mean,
forget it, Like there's a lot of fits there. So
if you have to move up ahead of some of

(59:51):
those teams, to try to grab him. I would be
okay with that because of the fact.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
That you have a bunch of good teams who have
established quarterbacks who might just think that a gadget quarterback
could be an additional spark to their offense and.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
Could become something one day.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Yeah, they look what they could afford to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
The Eagles selected Jalen Hurts with the second round pick.
Carson Wentz was coming off an VP caliber city will.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Be correct, and that's what could turn out to That
turned out to be a tremendous windfall for them. And
trust me, at the time, they didn't think Wentz was
gonna flop out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
They weren't drafting jail and Hurts to start on them. No,
he was gonna be a package quarterback and then their
backup long term, I know. And then if he develops
into something great and well great and and them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
And that's very interesting because that could be a spot
where Milroe does go a little bit higher because someone
sees him as a package quarterback.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
Let's wrap things up with Jason and NEWAVN. Jason, I
know you have like six points. You're gonna have to
limit it here.

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
We're past one man Okay, how you guys doing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
We're good, all right.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
I'm trying to make you quick to get rushed off.
But a few things. I I know everybody something about.
I'm one of those fans who I'm fine with whoever
the general manager takes, because, like I've said before numerous times,
the only scouts that I care who opinion is the
Giant scouts up Steers. So I know everybody likes to

(01:01:13):
talk to the draft Google's draft xperst, which is fine.
But here's my thing. The I'm going with three players,
like I've told you guys about. To me, it's Chador,
Travis or Carter. Carter gets in reservation because we just
don't know about the injury thing with his foot in
the shoulder, so that's kind of a tricky and I'm

(01:01:34):
sure they'll do their due diligence. Travis, to me, I'm
not as high on as everybody else. But if the
Giants took him, fine, you know what I mean. I'm
a roof for him while he's on the team. I
know I've made my statements about Shador. I don't need
to keep going about it. I think if he's there,
I think he's the pick. I think what he did.

(01:01:54):
I think people don't realize. Now he's not a perfect player,
you know, but a lot of times when you when
you're picking these players, especially when you're picking number three
over rum, to me, you either go quarterback or line
of scrimmage player. And that's just my opinion and should door.
It's hard because I don't think people realize how bad

(01:02:15):
his offensive line was, like they were a sieve. I
know people talk about what the Giants has been, and
they were bad. And my thing is, if if playing
quarterback for the Giants is such a unique amongst all
the teams, you could say Dallas, maybe, Green Bay maybe,

(01:02:38):
but playing quarterback for the Giants is such a how
do I say it's? It's tricky, right, because not only
do you have to be good on the field, but
you have to be good in the community.

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
Jason, I don't think there's any worry about your door
handling the New York Spotlight. He'll be fine with that, no.

Speaker 7 (01:02:56):
Right, So I think he's my pick if he's there.
I know everybod I didn't want to agree with that,
and that's fine. Everybody has their opinion. Ye second point
the d line, Uh, I'm with you. Paul, there is
a little gap.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:03:10):
Mason Graham, you know, quote unquote is the preemptive number
one tackle, and the Dravens really argue with that point.
But man, there's a lot of good tackles in this track. Man,
I just I just don't see the giants picking them.
And I'm not saying you guys are stating that they will,
but I just don't see them taking Mason Graham. If

(01:03:32):
I'm taking a different five tackle that high, he has
to have a lot of those tools. He traits you
guys talk about, right, So when I say, when I
say tools, he traits to me. And I know Dexter
wasn't taking that high. He was taking at seventeen the
year we took him. But to me, he looks like
a number three overall defensive tackletes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Kennedy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
Yeah, and by the way, Mason Graham's never gonna test,
so he's undersized and he didn't test. That to me,
is I worry?

Speaker 7 (01:04:01):
I know, I get it, and that's and that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
To truth be told, I don't make predictions about what
Joe Shane's going to do. But as I said to
John last year, when I said I would take a
doing today. But I think Joe Shane and the Giants
are going to take neighbors. I'm going to say the
same thing to you now, I would take Mason Graham
if I if I had that choice at that point
under those conditions, I don't think the Giants would, right.

Speaker 7 (01:04:26):
And then one point and I leave off the edge.
You can't off the ear. I have a little I
don't want to say problem with it, but I'm a
little curious by this, and it's just give me a
few seconds. So last year, the quarterback out of Washington,
I forgot the young man.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
Oh you mean Michael Pennix.

Speaker 7 (01:04:44):
Michael Penni, Michael Penrison. Okay, I never thought we would
take him that high. I think he was a good
college college quarterback that could potentially be a good NFL quarterback.
And he showed some some some moments last year in
his spot duty when he when he did play. Sure,
But here's my thing. Last year I heard a lot
of draft analysts and people on social media at TV,

(01:05:06):
oh you can't take you know, they was down in
Michael Pennix because of the injuries. But now, all of
a sudden this year, I see a lot of and
I'm not saying you two are doing it. I'm just
saying just in the landscape of the NFL draft, Tyler
Shuck's name is coming up the board, Tyler Shuck, Tyler Shut,
Tyler Shuck. And my thing is, Okay, people down to

(01:05:26):
Michael Pennix last year for having all those injuries. My
injury he did. He did take Washington pretty far, you know,
because he beat my long Horns that year. He came
where he came out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
Well, Jason, Jason, what I'll say real quick, and I
completely understand your point where you're coming from. No one
has Tyler Shuck as a first round player here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
I think the question with Pennix last year is would
you draft them like in the top fifteen? Right, No
one's saying you draft Tyler Shuck in the top fifteen.
I think you're talking about Tyler Shuck as the second
round guy, and most people were talking about Michael Penick
as an end of the first round guy. So I
think most people, including myself elf, would select Michael Pennix
before they select Tyler Shuck. I would select Michael Pennix
long before I select Tyler Shuk. But I just I

(01:06:07):
didn't think the tape either the record made him a
top fifteen type of pick last year.

Speaker 6 (01:06:11):
That's it, right.

Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
And then and then the last thing, the you you
you guys had the Oregon guy on. Yeah, and they
have a few players out like and one guy that
intrigued me was Jordan Birch. I've watched him a few
times and and I'm not saying I'm a you know,
draft expert. I did play college ball, so I know
a little something and to me, his name piqued my interest.

(01:06:37):
And I don't know where he'll go, but to me,
he projects as a three technique in the league. He's
a big guy. I know they had him play an
edge in Oregon, but at six five, I think John
I think you mentioned he was like two nineties yep,
I mean that's a big edge. I mean I wonder
him and callwell and him and call over really and

(01:07:00):
treating me because if you don't get if you don't
want Mason Graham, there's a lot of talent and Jordan
Burst to me just screams, I would love to what
Andre Pattison did with a mold, like a mold of
play like that at six six, two ninety five. He
is your protog three technique, Jamari Carwell, he is your
put him exter on three and third and one and

(01:07:22):
let's play ball.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Yeah, so let me I get it.

Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
I wanted to see what you guys think that this
D line class. I know, Mason Graham, like you said,
Paul is in a different tier, but to me, the
tier isn't a canyon. The tier is like maybe a
paper clip.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
I appreciate it, Thank you, Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I like the one thing that he just said, which
is actually appropriate to this conversation. Andre Patterson. Too many
times we forget about that he is an outstanding defensive
line coach and for some of these defensive tackles who
are in that very large second tier because it is

(01:07:58):
an outstanding defense ensive line class. God only knows what
Andre Patterson's gonna do with any one of these guys. Yeah,
he could make them really good. A guy like Birch
he did. I think he defensive end hasn't liked the
physical traits.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
You have not seen the production with it. No one
of those guys where he just hasn't put it all
together yet. But yeah, I like to see Andrea Patterson
get his hands on him. I mean there are a
number of guys, like what could Andrea Patterson do with
Dion Walker?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
I had.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
I'll do a little tease for the Johns Huddle later today.
So Mike Renner was talking about Dean Walker. I've talked
about him here right mmmm on his twenty twenty three tape.
It looked like a top ten pick this year. He
looked like a second or third round pick. Mike Renner
told me in agents told me he played with a broken.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Back this year.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Broken back be a c K, that's correct. And when
you watch him on tape, you like he's playing really high.
Well you know why he might be playing high because
he can't bend Wow, because he has a broken back.
Now again that's him an agent don't know if that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
That's just combine. We never heard anything. Now.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
I remember sometimes you get the little small bones that
you bring that there and it's not like mail, whatever
the case might be. Like you of him, Kenneth Grant
the other guy, Walter Nolan is a smaller three tech
that can get up the field. Darius Alexander ad Toledo
is somebody that could be the top of the third
round type of guy. TJ standers out of South Carolina
could be a top of the third round type of guy.

(01:09:19):
You know, there's a lot Omar and Norman, a lot
of somebody that I like as an athletic pass rusher.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
See, but all those guys, all those guys are different
than Birch, and that Birch his first spot should be
pass rushing Bert he.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
Wanted he wanted to talk about the defensive tackle.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Oh oh, I thought I thought he was saying that
Birch should be a three technique.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
Well he said that too, but he wanted to I
don't think that's true. I think you can go either way.
I agree with you. I think his length that lies
on the playoutside. But he was asking about the defensive
tackle class. Yes, but again, and then you have the
bigger guys like Joshua Farmer, like Alfred Collins. Those are
the bigger CJ. West, the Jordan Phillips, those are more
of your you know, run stuffing guys with Jordan Phillips
can't get U Field a little busy. But look, there's

(01:09:57):
a lot of different types of guys you can choose
from here that are gonna play different roles for you.
That's why a poll's point. If you want to pick
one bigger run stuff or and then an upfield pass
rush two. You could do two, give me two and
that's fine, there's enough. I picked one of the third,
one of the fifth.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I'm all in on that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
I'm not sure you're gonna get the guy in round
two though, I think. I don't think Derek Harmon and
Grant are getting to you. No, So I think you'd
have to pick Tyler Williams. And we had this debate
with the caller a couple of weeks ago. There is
not I don't. He looks like Dalvin Tomlinson to me,
where you're not getting a lot of pass rush, but
you get a really good football player. That's what he
looks like. He looks like Dalvin Thomlinson.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I mentioned to you a couple of weeks ago that
would be you know, I think it's realistic that you
can get him there, right, And I would have no
problem with that selection.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
So the question is you'd rather wait to a round
three and pick a gut a little bit moreass rush
up side. I don't know it's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
I don't know it's a good question anyway, Good stuff, Paul, Yeah,
you and sidetack Tomorrow. Michigan we have Sam Webb are
a great guy who covers the Michigan Wolf RNES coming on.
He always picks out a couple of sleepers for us
every year. Make sure you check that out. And again
he's not a sleeper he is. Go check out the
johnsonle podcast as well for poll the Tino. I'm John
Schmelk and we'll talk to you tomorrow.

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