June 2, 2025 • 32 mins
Ep. 889 - The Cardinals will be back out on the practice field this week as Week Two of OTA’s are set to begin. What do we want to see? What are we expecting to see? Dani Sureck and Zach Gershman give their thoughts. Plus, the two discuss the depth at offensive line and how the starting line might look come Week 1; what offensive coordinator Drew Petzing had to say about Kyler Murray’s unscheduled runs; and how the Cardinals offense is poised to take the next step in 2025.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Gearing up for week two of OTA's what improvements can
we see from week one of practice to week two?
How will the offensive line depth chart shakeout? And what
are the offensive coordinator hops say about QB one and
his off schedule runs. It's Cardinals Cover two, episode eight
eighty nine, and it starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Boa Baker, What Heart? What rent? This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
He's at the ten half of five hes it again,
so more hurry magic.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Here's Danny Sirek.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Continuing to fill in for Craig Grieler, who is just
enjoying his vacation time. Zach Gershman, I'm Danny Surrek. We're
good teammates, Zach, we are.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We are.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Craig's already sent a handful of photos from the trip,
so at least we know he's enjoying it. But then again,
knowing Craig, he's probably also walking around and having a
headphone in and listening to us on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So Hi, Craig.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I told him to shut it out to try and
join his vacation. But that is easier said than done
for someone like Craig, who is very dialed in at
all times.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm sure he's keeping notes. Now I'm surprised normally we get.
You know, Craig during every single press conference is dying
down notes of every particular point. So we miss him
because we haven't had those in the previous few press conferences.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But soon enough he'll be back.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ota started last week for the Cardinals. Three practices, three
more this week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we will hear from
head coach Jonathan Gannon. Tuesday, we've talked about the practice
from last Wednesday a little bit, just though, what were
your overarching thoughts on what you saw? First time we
saw a lot of these players out on the field.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Was nice to see, you know, the coaching staff how
they're interacting with the players. Again, there's a lot of
new coaches. We've talked before on Wednesday's episode about coach
Devo and his energy. You also have Justin Fry with
the offensive lineman, Matt Feeney with the outside linebackers, so
that was interesting to see a new face over there,
Christian Garcia as well with the inside linebackers. So it's
(02:22):
really just a matter of seeing the new coaches out there.
Then again, though, it was just it was nice to
see guys wearing helmets, being back on the field and
you know, feeling like football is back in the air.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Phase three, offense and defense out on the field at
the same time, not going up against each other and
not seeing one on ones. This is also the time
when you get to have a little fun. You take
everything with a small grain of salt because it is voluntary,
so you don't have every player out there. It's not
always something that you need to stress over or question
worry about. But this is the time when you can
(02:52):
have fun seeing things like Evan Brown, who was your
left guard all last season, taking steps at center because
yeld To for a hole wasn't out on the field
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We saw Evan Brown taking snaps at center when he
was with the Seattle Seahawks and through his handful of
other stops in the league, and when he came to
the Arizona Cardinals, you just put yelled defro Hold on
a contract extension. You knew Evan Brown was going to
be your left guard with a Yell defro Hold not there,
and we're not sure. Once again, it's speculation season. It's
funny because we talk about free agency and draft being
(03:22):
speculation season.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Then once the.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Draft's over, you're like, all right, speculation's over until Ota
is begin and you're wondering where everybody's out. There's a
chance Yelled defro Hold is back out there on the
practice field this week. There's a chance he's not. Once again,
it is voluntary. But in the meantime, we do get
to see Evan Brown at center, and he's obviously going
to be rotating between center and his primary position of
(03:43):
left guard, but to know that you at least have
some depth behind Yell defro Hold, and it's a quality
starter in Evan Brown.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's a it's a reassuring factor.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There's depth along that offensive line, and it's so early.
It really won't be closer until training camp in July,
when we can start seeing more and a consistent basis
in practices where this coaching staff feels the depth is
for all five positions across the line of where someone
like John Gaines fits in on the depth chart with
Christian Jones going into year two at right tackle, but
(04:14):
keeping swing tackle Calvin Beacham. Those are things that is
just going to take some time. You can't really gather
all that information after one practice, and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's also going to be nice only actual report on
it too.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Absolutely, But I do know, and you mentioned John Gaines,
and I know that there's an affinity between Danny Surak
and John Gaines the football player.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
But I think that he's a.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Player that is flying heavily under the radar this year
because a new offensive line coach, Justin fry recruited John
Gaines to UCLA when they were together over there in Calli,
so there's familiarity there. And obviously, because Justin Fry came
from Ohio State, we right away connect Paris Johnson Junior
with coach Frye. However, during his introductory press conference, he
(04:54):
did mention Johnny Gaines, which was so interesting hearing Johnny Gains.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But he did mention.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
The the former twenty twenty three fifth round talent because
he has that familiarity with him. So he yes, he
is relying on Paris Johnson Junior, but he also has
another familiar face in that room.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Another relationship connection that was already started before their time
here in Arizona together. So week two of OTA's Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday will be out at practice Tuesday. What do you
want to see that you either saw us week and
want to see a continuation of or what are you
hoping to see differently from week two of.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
OTAs of course, we want to see if any of
the guys that were working off to the sides, the
Walter Nolan's of the world, that they are going to
be returning to the main practice field with the defensive
line unit. Blond Nichols was another player that was working
off to the sides. I think a guy like Blond Nichols,
you would hope that whatever he is rehabbing, that that
process has accelerated as best as it can while also
(05:51):
maintaining just the health factor of it, because he is
a player that's going to be competing for a roster
spot in that heavily competitive defensive line room. So you
want to see if any of those guys are going
to be returning into the mix. And also, on top
of that, what's standing out about that inside linebacker room.
Obviously it's very early. They just put the helmets on
they're still getting used to having Nick Rolis's voice in
(06:14):
their ear with that green dot position. But still that's
going to be another competition. Where does Cody Simon and
a Keen Davis Gaither and MIKEL. Walker, where do they
fall into the mix? What about you, Danny, what do
you think?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You want to continue to see high energy and while
you're not seeing one on ones, you can still gather
a lot of how these players are absorbing information, especially
the position rooms that have new coaches and the new
energy that's been brought in with the defensive line, with
the offensive line, with the linebackers, outside linebackers. So those
are things that I want to continue to keep an
(06:45):
eye on and also see if we're going to see
players early on in the off season maybe working with
multiple position rooms. There's a handful of players that we
saw last year where maybe they're working with both inside
linebackers and outside right cornerbacks and safeties. I want to
start keeping an eye on now that we saw what
we saw in Week one, are we going to see
any sort of different positions for Week two for certain players?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That's what's going to be interesting, especially in the cornerback
room with Sean Murphy Bunding being put on NFI for
the entire season, he's going to be out. You have
to wonder what that means for guys like that are
a little bit behind in the depth chart. And Denzel Burke,
the fifth round cornerback from Ohio State, how is he
gonna fight into the mix? So if there's a guy
like Keeth treu Klark, is he able to slide up
now the depth chart because of Sean Murphy Bunding's injury
(07:30):
in him being out for the entire season, what is
Garrett Williams? Is he going to remain in that slot
because there have been talks about moving him to outside.
I think you have one of the best nickel cornerbacks
in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
There's zero reason to move them.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
But we do know how much Jonathan Gannon and Nick
rollis to value that that spot. That is a starting
role in their eyes. And when you have one of
the NFL's best, and soon enough we'll you know, be
eligible for contract extension. And I'm sure hearing how highly
this coaching staff speaks of Garrett Williams. If he replicates
his first year and his second year's performance and even
(08:04):
improves beyond that, he will be a player that has
talked in the likes of Trey McBride at being the
up rachelon of their highest paid at their position.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, Williams has said and the coaching staff has as well,
that he can play inside and outside, has that experience.
We have mostly seen Williams play inside during his tenure
here in Arizona. He had a great year last year.
Pro Football Focus ranked him the third best cornerback in
the league. It is something that you would imagine is
going to be discussed. Not having Murphy bunting outside is
(08:32):
what is the best way to move forward. But when
you have someone who has been so good at their position,
are you really getting better just because he's capable of
playing outside, or are you still a better team if
you leave Williams as your nickel cornerback and you use
one of these pieces. Because they have put a lot
of capital, whether that's the draft or through money, whatever
they're doing into that secondary for this defense.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And I know a guy like Denzel Burke kind of
finds himself in that similar spot as Garret Williams, player
that mostly played on the outside in college and has
that ability to play on the outside, but could potentially
fit best as a nickel slot corner on the inside.
So I wonder when that first step chart is released,
and once again it's released by the Media Relations a department,
not necessarily through the Arizona Cardinals football club, but I'm
(09:17):
interested to see where they're more going to align a
guy like Denzel Burke. Is he going to be playing
most of his snaps on the inside during training camp
and during Phase three of OTA's and mandatory mini camp,
which will be coming up in a handful of days.
Those are the players that when we talk about the
intersectionality between the two positions, that's where I'm interested to
see a guy like Denzel Burke, keetro Clark, where are
(09:40):
they going to line up.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Every position on defense has high competition, which is a
good thing, and that's what you want. That's what you
always want is iron sharpens iron. There's so much consistency
on this Cardinals offense, especially on the offensive coaching staff
like that side of the building as well. So when
you're looking at the defense, it is fun to go
(10:01):
position by position and talk about the competition, and cornerbacks
is certainly one of them. When you've got eleven players
in the room right now, and then you start to
talk about how that could all change numbers wise, because
when you're looking at the depth and the talent in
the defensive line room, are the Cardinals going to carry
an extra D lineman this year? And if that's the case,
then you got to remove a number from somewhere else
(10:23):
on the roster. So if you feel really good about
who your secondary options are, are you able to carry
one less number there? So it's going to be a
numbers game where everything is going to be tied together.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, the offense, you could start to kind of picture
who's going to be out there. I wrote an article
on asycardinals dot com about the continuity and how and
I tried to paint a picture of that first day
of practice at OTAs when all the media had their
paper rosters in their hand. Nobody was looking towards the
offensive side because everybody was familiar out there. You look
at the defensive side of the field, which is nearest
(10:54):
to us under the media tree, and you have everybody
checking their rosters. Who's number twenty seven? Okay, that is
a Keen Davis Gator who you brought in through free agency.
You're starting to picture, put numbers to faces to helmets
of the rookie class and who's ultimately out there, because
we know how heavily they invested in that side of
the ball through the draft. Look, at the end of
(11:14):
the day, there's gonna be so many things on the
offensive side of the ball where you kind of already
know where it's going to be going. On the defensive
side of the ball, it's a toss up because if
you do have an extra defensive alignment, well, what does
that mean for the outside linebacker room. You now have
guys like your fifth round talent from twenty twenty four,
Xavior Thomas. He's going to be competing, you know, for
a roster spot with a guy you brought in the
(11:35):
third round, which was his high school teammate in Jordan Birch,
And you start to you start to think about it.
In the secondary, Cardinals had four safeties because they had Rabbit,
they had Buddha, they had Jalen Thompson. You also had
Joey Blunt, who's a special team's ace. How is that
number going to fluctuate because typically you're only using JT
and Buddha out there. Do you need a fourth one?
But you know what Joey Blunt brings to the table.
(11:57):
There's so many different things that we should be very
thankful that we're not moniossup for it making these decisions
with head coach Johnathan Gannon. But at least for now,
it's fun to talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Just because things looked a certain way last year doesn't
mean they're going to necessarily look the same. I think
about that when you mentioned Josh Sweat coming in in
the outside linebackers room, that's a position that's relied heavily
on rotation. When you've got a player of Sweat's caliber
making the type of money he is, is he rotating
as much as the other players, or suddenly is the
(12:27):
opportunity for competition and reps dwindled to where you're mostly
competing for a spot opposite of Sweat. Things could look
very different this year for the Cardinals defense.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
You know that Josh Sweat's going to be the number
one guy out on the field with your Cardinals defense
because you don't invest that kind of money into a
rotational piece. However, you also have to think about your
second round talent that's going to be coming out of
rehabbing from his ACL injury and Bijo Julari where does
he fall into the mix? First of all, when is
he going to be healthy enough to be returned to
the practice field. We did not see him during the
(12:58):
voluntary portion of OTAs. But where does he fall into
the thicket things with guys like Xavin Collins and Baron
Browning and once again a third round pick, and Jordan
Birch and Xavier Thomas who flashed quite a bit in
twenty twenty four, Nick Rolis has to feel like a
kid in the candy store, but also the one that's
really struggling to decide what that last piece of candy
He's ultimately going to end up picking, because you do
(13:21):
know Josh Wet's gonna be your number one guy. Outside
of that, with that rotation, what is that going to
end up looking like?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Sweat and o Jali two players that were not in
attendance at voluntary OTA's last week. Ojelari is rehabbing that
knee injury he suffered in training camp last year. We
haven't had a chance to talk to the head coach
since that one practice media was able to be at
last week. We will hear from JG Tuesday, so that's
going to be the opportunity to ask about the rehab process,
(13:48):
for somebody like o Jelari, to ask about the players
we saw working out on the side last week. Walter Nolan,
the third Ballall Nichols, right tackle, Jonah Williams. There's a
handful of players that are coming back from injury. Justin
Jones is coming back from a triceps injury. He was
out on the field working out with the D line
last week. Who is a player that you have your
eye on that is coming back from injury that needs
(14:10):
to have assuming they are healthy right where we're not
here advocating the player is not ready to rush them back,
but a player that this team needs to have in
order to be successful in their position room they need
this player needs to have a good year.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, what the first player that comes to mind is
b Joe Jlari. And maybe that's because I'm thinking of
this outside linebacker room because we haven't seen Josh Wett yet.
So you're thinking back to what it looked like in
twenty twenty four, and you knew that b Joe Jlari
was going to be competing for a starting role, and
if not a starting role, was going to play a
(14:45):
ton of snaps coming off the edge for the Arizona
Cardinals defense, and you didn't get that and you missed
that pass rush a little bit. That's what forced you
to bring in guys like Josh Wewett and invest heavily
in that position. So he's a player that comes to
mind in terms of one that will elevate the position
group as a whole. But I just keep coming back
to Justin Jones, and it's it's funny because ever since
(15:09):
they're opening press conference, I kind of pair Justin Jones
with Bolal Nichols because of the fact that they came
in together, two guys that were buddies. I believe it
was at the Senior Bowl and they built the connection
there and then developed a friendship and now they're both
teammates and unfortunately both ended up with injuries. But to
separate the two, Justin Jones was that defensive edge that
(15:32):
you needed, and you saw a little bit until he
had that triceps injury. He looked good when he was
out there. But now with how much you've invested in
the position, I don't think he's just a player that
could come back and elevate the room. But he's a
player that while that is the case, if he does
make the roster, that's who I think it'll be.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's a player you still have questions around, is what
do you have in Jones and where does he fit
with the other pieces that have been brought in, not
only drafting Nolan, but Darius Robinson going into year two
and being healthy and he's put on a lot of muscle,
and just the mental side and the growth in that aspect.
You bring in Kalays Campbell, Dalvin Tomlinson. So where does
(16:09):
Jones fit into this brand new defensive line? You bring
back LJ. Cawy, or you still have Dante Stills. There's
a lot of question marks. So it is on Jones
absolutely to come and have a very good season.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
And I'm not just putting this out there to cause
any controversy or rumors, but we know Nick Rolis's style
is a little bit more that three four base and
he does all these different formations and disguises and schemes
and everything like that. When you look at the depth
of that defensive line room, you have to wonder if
potentially they a little rely, a little bit more on
a four to three front so that they could get
(16:43):
a little bit more pressure from their interior defensive lineman.
I'm not sure if a scheme change like that were
to happen that benefits guys like Justin Jones and Baall
and Nichols if they do crack that fifty three, because
then you know that they're going to be out there.
But I don't know, Danny. It's funny because we're thinking
about players coming back from injury. Those are kind of
(17:04):
the two main guys. But I also wonder we spoke
a little bit about it on Fridays Covered Too with
Darren Irman about Trey Benson coming back from injury. He
had that injury towards the back end of the season,
just when he was starting to ramp up. What does
the second year running back look like behind James Connor.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
That is a great question that leads me to the
player that comes to the forefront of my mind, right
tackle Jonah Williams. He got hurt Week one in Buffalo,
missed a significant amount of the season last year, came
back and then suffered another injury and wasn't able to
finish the season. First OTA's last week, he was working
out on the side with trainers. Where is he at
(17:39):
in his rehab process. It was it was like injury.
It was me right that he was suffering from near
the end of the season. So where's Williams in his
rehab Jersey rehab process? That is someone you brought in
in the offseason last year to come and be your
right tackle. You moved Paris Johnson Junior from right to
left and then you don't have Williams, so you're relying
mostly on Calvin Beacham. And then when you had other
(18:01):
injuries right, you were having to rely on Jackson Barton.
Christian Jones got a few snaps as a rookie, where's
Williams at and what can you expect from him health
wise and performance wise at the start of the season,
Because that's going to have a trickle down effect of
who's going to be your backup right tackle. Is Jones
ready for that or are you going to keep beat them?
And if that's the case, then what about the other tackles?
(18:24):
And so it really is a trickle down effect of
where is Williams at and what can you expect from him?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's funny, I don't think that there's a quarter of
football we as an on air staff talk about more
than that first quarter in the first game against the
Buffalo Bills, because that was the first and only time
that every single player in the offensive line was fully healthy,
and Jonah Williams went down with that knee injury in
the last player of the first quarter, and then he
didn't come back into I believe it was after the
(18:50):
bye week when they played the Seattle Seahawks, and he
didn't really look like the Jonah Williams we saw from
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
He was struggling a little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
You know, you could attribute that to Russ, You could
attribute that to a handful of different things. But then
when that game against the Carolina Panthers came back around
and he injured himself again, you started to realize that
what was happening on the offensive line was more than,
you know, just that was more than just one injury.
You wanted to see what he was able to bring
out there, and you know, Kelvin Beacham did a great job,
(19:19):
which is why the Cardinals decided to bring him back.
Now he's entering year fourteen, if I'm not mistaken, so
beach has been around the block, you know, quite for
quite a long time. I do think that wherever Jonah
Williams is in his recovery process. You would obviously hope
that the number one player you brought in in that
free agency class of twenty twenty four was Jonah Williams.
You hope to see him out there playing and you know,
(19:42):
making the most of the money that the Cardinals ended
up spending on the right tackle. However, if he's not
healthy enough, you do know that you have Kelvin Beachum,
who is more than a quality backup tackle because on
a lot of other teams in the NFL he would
be a Day one starter.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Something to give in mind to you when Williams came back.
By that point, right guard Hernandez was done for the
year and you were having rotation in that spot on
the right side between Tristan Cologne and Isaiah Adams as
a rookie. So that was also something to keep in
mind there. So when we're talking about the offense and
the offensive line and the run game, offensive coordinator drewspect
(20:18):
Drew Petson spoke with the media last week and one
of the few things he was talking about with the
quarterback with Kyler Murray was the run game. Not the
typical way we talk about the run game though it
was about rolling out. It was about how Murray uses
his legs in plays that are not designed for him
(20:38):
to run the ball right when he's just making the
call and he's going and he's out there and he's
playing football. So what did the offensive coordinator have to
say about those plays?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
From the quarterback? He gave a really good breakdown of
Kyler Murray's usage from inside the pocket versus outside the pocket,
on plays where is designed for him to be outside
the pocket, versus off schedule plays, And he said, to look,
Kyler Murray is as good as any when it comes
to being a player that rolls out of the pocket
and you know, has plays where it's off schedule. You
(21:08):
think back to that eighteen yard touchdown to Elijah Higgins
in the back of the end zone in Week two
against the Los Angeles Rams. Also that sixty yard touchdown
to Marvin Harrison Junior where Kyler scrambled out of the pocket,
was looking downfield and Marvin was starting to feel the
defense a little bit. Now was the first sign of
Marvin's potential as a wide receiver in the NFL where
he broke free off his route a little bit, Kyler
(21:30):
Murray found him, you know, down the field on that
crossing route that ultimately turned into that sixty yard touchdown.
But to break down the numbers, Tayo Mackie from az
Republic put down a breakdown of Kyler Murray's percentages and
his usage on straight dropbacks versus rollouts versus scrambles. On
straight dropbacks six point nine to seven yards per average.
So let's say seven yards per average, fifteen touchdowns, seven interceptions.
(21:53):
That's right around the standard of what you expect from
a quarterback on the draft backs on rollout plays. Now,
this is designed rollout plays ten point nine yards per average,
three touchdowns, one interceptions. Okay, when Kyler Murray's out of
the pocket, defenses have to move around a little bit
because he has that threat to break free and run
down the field if he so chooses. Now, what it
gets interesting is the scramble routes where it is off schedule.
(22:17):
This is Kyler Murray looking down the field. Five point
one to three yards per average, three touchdowns, three interceptions.
That's the high risk, high reward. When you have a
player that's moving outside the pocket as much as Kyler
Murray does, he has the ability to have that high risk,
high reward, the high risk and high reward component of it.
The reward is you see it touchdowns to Marvin Harrison
(22:37):
junior Elijah Higgins, but the interceptions is definitely what's a concern.
And Drew Petsy was talking about how they've been working
throughout the offseason on making those designed rollouts where Kyler's
numbers are significantly higher, making that more of a priority
to work on throughout the offseason versus just the off
scheduled off plays.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I love hearing that you don't ever want to find
a player, specifically your quarterback, in a position where they
don't feel comfortable, they don't feel prepared out there on
the field. So I like the fact that they are
practicing these off scheduled runs that way when those moments
arise during a game, because you know they will during
the season. Not only your quarterback, everyone around him feels prepared,
(23:18):
especially when you've got a QB who is as talented
with his legs as Murray is. From a timing standpoint,
from the blocking from the offensive line, from the route running,
and the timing from his receivers, everybody can be on
the same page. I like the fact that they are
practicing those specific plays. Last season, Murray had seventy eight
carries that was second only behind James Connor two thirty six.
(23:41):
Now Trey Benson only played thirteen games, he had sixty
three carries. Do you want to find a situation where
your QB, even as talented as he is, is still
running the ball second most on the team, or is
this a situation where the Cardinals run game was so
successful last year and you know you're gonna have your
one two punch in Connor and Benson. Is that something
that just a.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Little bit, I think that that's part of the balance
of a good offense because when the past game isn't working,
you go to the run game, and when the run
game isn't working, you try to utilize Kyler Murray's legs
to the best of his ability. And we know that
he is one of the most special players in the
league when it comes to those off scheduled plays and
having those Murray Magic kind of moments throughout the field. However,
(24:23):
when we talk about it, you can only work on
it so much during practices because those designed off schedule
plays are just Kyler Murray's instincts and natural ability taking over.
And I remember talking with Marvin Harrison Junior about it
during the regular season. I think it was after that
sixty yard touchdown, and I asked him, is this something
you're even able to practice? And he said, you could
practice it as much as you can. But when you
(24:45):
know when the defense, the Cardinals defense is going up
against the Cardinals offense, they know Kyler Murray's skill set
quite a bit. So those off scheduled plays, you can't
go after the quarterback because you have to keep a
distance from QB one, make sure he's not touched with
the reason why he wears a different color jersey than
every other player that's out on the field. So you
can only work on it as much. To go back
to your question, though, Danny, you don't. I think in
(25:07):
some cases you don't want your quarterback want to be
running back too.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
In a lot of ways. Out on the.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Field, however, Kyler Murray's skill set puts him in a
different category than you know. I would say maybe twenty
seven twenty eight other quarterbacks in the NFL, so I
think seventy eight carries. It depends on what those seventy
eight carries look like. Is are those just read options
and he's running how much of those are from those
off scheduled plays. I think if you break it down
a little bit more, if Trey Benson was out on
(25:35):
the field, he would have probably exceeded Kyler Murray. But
still those seventy eight eighty snaps, and we know Kyler
Murray said he wants to run more this coming year.
At least that's something of focus for him. If that
is the case, that number is likely to go up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Absolutely, that's a good point. Is just with his skills
that it depends on the type of runs that we're
talking about here, and now going into your two you
can expect to see more of a balance between Connor
and Benson to keep them both healthy and keep a
defense on their toes a little more as well.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I think with Trey Benson too, And I touched on
this a little bit with Darren Erban. He was just
starting to get his footing in the league and he
was on Burns and Gambo last week and said it
wasn't until Week ten against the New York Jets when
he bounced off a couple of tackles that he kind
of had that realization that he does belong in the league.
And then you go into the bye week, and then
he played a few more games before he was dealing
(26:25):
with that that lower leg injury. If I'm not mistaken,
if that's what it was. So you have some hope
for what Trey Benson could actually end up looking like
as at RB two, that one two three punch, because
you have to you have to put Kyler Murray in
that rushing game category. It's dangerous. It's dangerous for opposing teams.
And if Marvin Harrison Junior and Kyler Murray can continue
(26:47):
to develop that connection and Trey McBride continues his emergence
this offense, I know Kyler said that they're just scratching
the surface of what they could end up becoming. This
is the offseason, and when we get to training camp
and we could see a little bit more and report
on a little bit more and start to put, you know,
paint the picture a little bit better, then we're going
to really be able to see how much Kaiwa's being
(27:07):
used in the run game and also how the passing
game has evolved and developed.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
This is the time for the offense to take the
lid off. When you're breaking down these starters, the key
players on this offense individually where they are in their
professional careers. They are all hitting the peak. Right. You've
got McBride coming off a fantastic here. You've got MHJ
who's going into year or two, had a very good
first rookie season, has put on a lot of muscle,
(27:32):
has been working on the chemistry connection the timing of
his routes with his quarterback. You've got Murray going into
year seven. You still have some consistency on the offensive line,
and then this one two punch in the backfield we've
been talking about. When you put all these players together,
Now there is also that consistency, that consistency, and the
time where it's now because you've got the consistency from
(27:53):
the group, the consistency from your play caller, from the
coaching staff. So now you're able to add some new
detail to what this offense can do and make life
a little more difficult for a defense going into year
three with this coaching staff.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
And that's where it goes into the continuity piece that
Drew Petsing was talking about, and in the article I
wrote about on Azycardinals dot Com was talking about Drew's
philosophy with if he could actually sense the benefits of
that continuity this early on in training camp and during OTAs,
because as we discussed Danny, you can't really see much,
can't really do much. The one on ones don't necessarily
(28:28):
happen like they're going to happen during training camp, and
Drew Patson said he could absolutely sense it because as
much as it's on the field, it's in the meeting
room where you could start to dive into details a
little bit more and you know, find wrinkles and nuances
that you otherwise might not have been able to during
the training camp when Marvin Harrison Junior are still getting
used to what it takes to be a pro in
(28:48):
the NFL. So you're gonna be able to see those
those wrinkles, I'm sure come Week one when they head
over to New Orleans to go play against the Saints. However,
I think you hit on the point the time is now,
and James Connor made the emphasize that he's not playing
forever and he's towards the tail end of his career.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
He has a lot fewer.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Snaps than he started with during his time in Pittsburgh,
so you know, that James Connor, you have him, you know,
under contract for a handful more years. What does that
look like beyond twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, We
don't fully know. Which is exactly why. With Trey McBride
in his prime, Marvin Harrison Junior just starting to get
to that point of learning what it takes to be
an NFL wide receiver for and noticing how the game
(29:29):
has slowed down for him, there's no other option for this.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Team to compete in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
And I know a lot of national experts are still
keeping the Cardinals in the basement. I have no idea why,
because I don't think that there is a team that
has improved in this much. Any team in the NFC
West has improved more than the Arizona Cardinals have.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I agree, And when you're looking at the changes, it's
been very positive players that have been brought in either
through the draft or through free agency. When you've got
other teams around the league that are losing big name
players that they are having to try to replace, or
having to change things, or having major coaching changes that
the Cardinals just aren't having to deal with this offseason,
(30:08):
and call us Homer's.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Call us whatever you will, call us employees. We are
employees of this organization. However, it's not just us. What's
mind boggling to me is you have Pro Football Focus
and a lot of these other media outlets giving A
plus grades to the Cardinals after free agency with the
additions of Josh Swed and then you're bringing guys like
Walter Nolan the third and Will Johnson, and the Cardinals
get eight plus grades again, but then they're still only
(30:31):
given you know, seven eight wins in the Vegas totals.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I don't know. I don't I don't get Vegas. I
don't know Vegas.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
However, what I do know is that I believe this
Cardinals team is one that is on the rise.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And what we do know is OTAs start tomorrow Tuesday.
We will hear from head coach Jonathan Gannon at ten am,
so you can tune into that press conference as well.
We will have coverage, well podcast videos, articles covering this
week of OTA's practice, and Zach will be out there. Man,
you're welcome, Craig. We've just been crushing it.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
When he comes back, I wonder if we get like
a gift.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh you think he got us a souvenir from not
but I would hope well, I mean it'd be tough. Now,
maybe he has to go back and get us something
for all of our hard work to cover for.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Him that that is the right thing to do.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Absolutely, It's like, it's what happened the veterans. You know
that you're going to be expecting, you know, the rookies
to pay a price. I know we discussed that last week.
We're not going to go further into that, but maybe
in this case, the veteran you know, gives the rookies
a gift.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Just as excited as I am for Cardinals OTA's practice Tuesday,
I am even more excited to see Craig on Wednesday.
But if he asked me if that's true, I will
say otherwise to his face.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
So, but then we'll know how much he actually listened
to them.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
This was all a trick.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Greg.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Can't wait to see you Cardinals fans. Thanks so much
for tuning into this edition of Cardinals cover two. For
Cody Fincher, Zach Gershman, I'm Danny Surreck. We'll catch you
next time right here on Cardinals Cover two
Gearing up for week two of OTA's what improvements can
we see from week one of practice to week two?
How will the offensive line depth chart shakeout? And what
are the offensive coordinator hops say about QB one and
his off schedule runs. It's Cardinals Cover two, episode eight
eighty nine, and it starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Boa Baker, What Heart? What rent? This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
He's at the ten half of five hes it again,
so more hurry magic.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Here's Danny Sirek.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Continuing to fill in for Craig Grieler, who is just
enjoying his vacation time. Zach Gershman, I'm Danny Surrek. We're
good teammates, Zach, we are.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We are.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Craig's already sent a handful of photos from the trip,
so at least we know he's enjoying it. But then again,
knowing Craig, he's probably also walking around and having a
headphone in and listening to us on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So Hi, Craig.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I told him to shut it out to try and
join his vacation. But that is easier said than done
for someone like Craig, who is very dialed in at
all times.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm sure he's keeping notes. Now I'm surprised normally we get.
You know, Craig during every single press conference is dying
down notes of every particular point. So we miss him
because we haven't had those in the previous few press conferences.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
But soon enough he'll be back.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Ota started last week for the Cardinals. Three practices, three
more this week Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, we will hear from
head coach Jonathan Gannon. Tuesday, we've talked about the practice
from last Wednesday a little bit, just though, what were
your overarching thoughts on what you saw? First time we
saw a lot of these players out on the field.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Was nice to see, you know, the coaching staff how
they're interacting with the players. Again, there's a lot of
new coaches. We've talked before on Wednesday's episode about coach
Devo and his energy. You also have Justin Fry with
the offensive lineman, Matt Feeney with the outside linebackers, so
that was interesting to see a new face over there,
Christian Garcia as well with the inside linebackers. So it's
(02:22):
really just a matter of seeing the new coaches out there.
Then again, though, it was just it was nice to
see guys wearing helmets, being back on the field and
you know, feeling like football is back in the air.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Phase three, offense and defense out on the field at
the same time, not going up against each other and
not seeing one on ones. This is also the time
when you get to have a little fun. You take
everything with a small grain of salt because it is voluntary,
so you don't have every player out there. It's not
always something that you need to stress over or question
worry about. But this is the time when you can
(02:52):
have fun seeing things like Evan Brown, who was your
left guard all last season, taking steps at center because
yeld To for a hole wasn't out on the field
one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We saw Evan Brown taking snaps at center when he
was with the Seattle Seahawks and through his handful of
other stops in the league, and when he came to
the Arizona Cardinals, you just put yelled defro Hold on
a contract extension. You knew Evan Brown was going to
be your left guard with a Yell defro Hold not there,
and we're not sure. Once again, it's speculation season. It's
funny because we talk about free agency and draft being
(03:22):
speculation season.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Then once the.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Draft's over, you're like, all right, speculation's over until Ota
is begin and you're wondering where everybody's out. There's a
chance Yelled defro Hold is back out there on the
practice field this week. There's a chance he's not. Once again,
it is voluntary. But in the meantime, we do get
to see Evan Brown at center, and he's obviously going
to be rotating between center and his primary position of
(03:43):
left guard, but to know that you at least have
some depth behind Yell defro Hold, and it's a quality
starter in Evan Brown.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
It's a it's a reassuring factor.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There's depth along that offensive line, and it's so early.
It really won't be closer until training camp in July,
when we can start seeing more and a consistent basis
in practices where this coaching staff feels the depth is
for all five positions across the line of where someone
like John Gaines fits in on the depth chart with
Christian Jones going into year two at right tackle, but
(04:14):
keeping swing tackle Calvin Beacham. Those are things that is
just going to take some time. You can't really gather
all that information after one practice, and.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's also going to be nice only actual report on
it too.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Absolutely, But I do know, and you mentioned John Gaines,
and I know that there's an affinity between Danny Surak
and John Gaines the football player.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
But I think that he's a.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Player that is flying heavily under the radar this year
because a new offensive line coach, Justin fry recruited John
Gaines to UCLA when they were together over there in Calli,
so there's familiarity there. And obviously, because Justin Fry came
from Ohio State, we right away connect Paris Johnson Junior
with coach Frye. However, during his introductory press conference, he
(04:54):
did mention Johnny Gaines, which was so interesting hearing Johnny Gains.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
But he did mention.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
The the former twenty twenty three fifth round talent because
he has that familiarity with him. So he yes, he
is relying on Paris Johnson Junior, but he also has
another familiar face in that room.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Another relationship connection that was already started before their time
here in Arizona together. So week two of OTA's Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday will be out at practice Tuesday. What do you
want to see that you either saw us week and
want to see a continuation of or what are you
hoping to see differently from week two of.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
OTAs of course, we want to see if any of
the guys that were working off to the sides, the
Walter Nolan's of the world, that they are going to
be returning to the main practice field with the defensive
line unit. Blond Nichols was another player that was working
off to the sides. I think a guy like Blond Nichols,
you would hope that whatever he is rehabbing, that that
process has accelerated as best as it can while also
(05:51):
maintaining just the health factor of it, because he is
a player that's going to be competing for a roster
spot in that heavily competitive defensive line room. So you
want to see if any of those guys are going
to be returning into the mix. And also, on top
of that, what's standing out about that inside linebacker room.
Obviously it's very early. They just put the helmets on
they're still getting used to having Nick Rolis's voice in
(06:14):
their ear with that green dot position. But still that's
going to be another competition. Where does Cody Simon and
a Keen Davis Gaither and MIKEL. Walker, where do they
fall into the mix? What about you, Danny, what do
you think?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You want to continue to see high energy and while
you're not seeing one on ones, you can still gather
a lot of how these players are absorbing information, especially
the position rooms that have new coaches and the new
energy that's been brought in with the defensive line, with
the offensive line, with the linebackers, outside linebackers. So those
are things that I want to continue to keep an
(06:45):
eye on and also see if we're going to see
players early on in the off season maybe working with
multiple position rooms. There's a handful of players that we
saw last year where maybe they're working with both inside
linebackers and outside right cornerbacks and safeties. I want to
start keeping an eye on now that we saw what
we saw in Week one, are we going to see
any sort of different positions for Week two for certain players?
Speaker 4 (07:07):
That's what's going to be interesting, especially in the cornerback
room with Sean Murphy Bunding being put on NFI for
the entire season, he's going to be out. You have
to wonder what that means for guys like that are
a little bit behind in the depth chart. And Denzel Burke,
the fifth round cornerback from Ohio State, how is he
gonna fight into the mix? So if there's a guy
like Keeth treu Klark, is he able to slide up
now the depth chart because of Sean Murphy Bunding's injury
(07:30):
in him being out for the entire season, what is
Garrett Williams? Is he going to remain in that slot
because there have been talks about moving him to outside.
I think you have one of the best nickel cornerbacks
in the NFL.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
There's zero reason to move them.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
But we do know how much Jonathan Gannon and Nick
rollis to value that that spot. That is a starting
role in their eyes. And when you have one of
the NFL's best, and soon enough we'll you know, be
eligible for contract extension. And I'm sure hearing how highly
this coaching staff speaks of Garrett Williams. If he replicates
his first year and his second year's performance and even
(08:04):
improves beyond that, he will be a player that has
talked in the likes of Trey McBride at being the
up rachelon of their highest paid at their position.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, Williams has said and the coaching staff has as well,
that he can play inside and outside, has that experience.
We have mostly seen Williams play inside during his tenure
here in Arizona. He had a great year last year.
Pro Football Focus ranked him the third best cornerback in
the league. It is something that you would imagine is
going to be discussed. Not having Murphy bunting outside is
(08:32):
what is the best way to move forward. But when
you have someone who has been so good at their position,
are you really getting better just because he's capable of
playing outside, or are you still a better team if
you leave Williams as your nickel cornerback and you use
one of these pieces. Because they have put a lot
of capital, whether that's the draft or through money, whatever
they're doing into that secondary for this defense.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And I know a guy like Denzel Burke kind of
finds himself in that similar spot as Garret Williams, player
that mostly played on the outside in college and has
that ability to play on the outside, but could potentially
fit best as a nickel slot corner on the inside.
So I wonder when that first step chart is released,
and once again it's released by the Media Relations a department,
not necessarily through the Arizona Cardinals football club, but I'm
(09:17):
interested to see where they're more going to align a
guy like Denzel Burke. Is he going to be playing
most of his snaps on the inside during training camp
and during Phase three of OTA's and mandatory mini camp,
which will be coming up in a handful of days.
Those are the players that when we talk about the
intersectionality between the two positions, that's where I'm interested to
see a guy like Denzel Burke, keetro Clark, where are
(09:40):
they going to line up.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Every position on defense has high competition, which is a
good thing, and that's what you want. That's what you
always want is iron sharpens iron. There's so much consistency
on this Cardinals offense, especially on the offensive coaching staff
like that side of the building as well. So when
you're looking at the defense, it is fun to go
(10:01):
position by position and talk about the competition, and cornerbacks
is certainly one of them. When you've got eleven players
in the room right now, and then you start to
talk about how that could all change numbers wise, because
when you're looking at the depth and the talent in
the defensive line room, are the Cardinals going to carry
an extra D lineman this year? And if that's the case,
then you got to remove a number from somewhere else
(10:23):
on the roster. So if you feel really good about
who your secondary options are, are you able to carry
one less number there? So it's going to be a
numbers game where everything is going to be tied together.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yeah, the offense, you could start to kind of picture
who's going to be out there. I wrote an article
on asycardinals dot com about the continuity and how and
I tried to paint a picture of that first day
of practice at OTAs when all the media had their
paper rosters in their hand. Nobody was looking towards the
offensive side because everybody was familiar out there. You look
at the defensive side of the field, which is nearest
(10:54):
to us under the media tree, and you have everybody
checking their rosters. Who's number twenty seven? Okay, that is
a Keen Davis Gator who you brought in through free agency.
You're starting to picture, put numbers to faces to helmets
of the rookie class and who's ultimately out there, because
we know how heavily they invested in that side of
the ball through the draft. Look, at the end of
(11:14):
the day, there's gonna be so many things on the
offensive side of the ball where you kind of already
know where it's going to be going. On the defensive
side of the ball, it's a toss up because if
you do have an extra defensive alignment, well, what does
that mean for the outside linebacker room. You now have
guys like your fifth round talent from twenty twenty four,
Xavior Thomas. He's going to be competing, you know, for
a roster spot with a guy you brought in the
(11:35):
third round, which was his high school teammate in Jordan Birch,
And you start to you start to think about it.
In the secondary, Cardinals had four safeties because they had Rabbit,
they had Buddha, they had Jalen Thompson. You also had
Joey Blunt, who's a special team's ace. How is that
number going to fluctuate because typically you're only using JT
and Buddha out there. Do you need a fourth one?
But you know what Joey Blunt brings to the table.
(11:57):
There's so many different things that we should be very
thankful that we're not moniossup for it making these decisions
with head coach Johnathan Gannon. But at least for now,
it's fun to talk about.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Just because things looked a certain way last year doesn't
mean they're going to necessarily look the same. I think
about that when you mentioned Josh Sweat coming in in
the outside linebackers room, that's a position that's relied heavily
on rotation. When you've got a player of Sweat's caliber
making the type of money he is, is he rotating
as much as the other players, or suddenly is the
(12:27):
opportunity for competition and reps dwindled to where you're mostly
competing for a spot opposite of Sweat. Things could look
very different this year for the Cardinals defense.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
You know that Josh Sweat's going to be the number
one guy out on the field with your Cardinals defense
because you don't invest that kind of money into a
rotational piece. However, you also have to think about your
second round talent that's going to be coming out of
rehabbing from his ACL injury and Bijo Julari where does
he fall into the mix? First of all, when is
he going to be healthy enough to be returned to
the practice field. We did not see him during the
(12:58):
voluntary portion of OTAs. But where does he fall into
the thicket things with guys like Xavin Collins and Baron
Browning and once again a third round pick, and Jordan
Birch and Xavier Thomas who flashed quite a bit in
twenty twenty four, Nick Rolis has to feel like a
kid in the candy store, but also the one that's
really struggling to decide what that last piece of candy
He's ultimately going to end up picking, because you do
(13:21):
know Josh Wet's gonna be your number one guy. Outside
of that, with that rotation, what is that going to
end up looking like?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Sweat and o Jali two players that were not in
attendance at voluntary OTA's last week. Ojelari is rehabbing that
knee injury he suffered in training camp last year. We
haven't had a chance to talk to the head coach
since that one practice media was able to be at
last week. We will hear from JG Tuesday, so that's
going to be the opportunity to ask about the rehab process,
(13:48):
for somebody like o Jelari, to ask about the players
we saw working out on the side last week. Walter Nolan,
the third Ballall Nichols, right tackle, Jonah Williams. There's a
handful of players that are coming back from injury. Justin
Jones is coming back from a triceps injury. He was
out on the field working out with the D line
last week. Who is a player that you have your
eye on that is coming back from injury that needs
(14:10):
to have assuming they are healthy right where we're not
here advocating the player is not ready to rush them back,
but a player that this team needs to have in
order to be successful in their position room they need
this player needs to have a good year.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, what the first player that comes to mind is
b Joe Jlari. And maybe that's because I'm thinking of
this outside linebacker room because we haven't seen Josh Wett yet.
So you're thinking back to what it looked like in
twenty twenty four, and you knew that b Joe Jlari
was going to be competing for a starting role, and
if not a starting role, was going to play a
(14:45):
ton of snaps coming off the edge for the Arizona
Cardinals defense, and you didn't get that and you missed
that pass rush a little bit. That's what forced you
to bring in guys like Josh Wewett and invest heavily
in that position. So he's a player that comes to
mind in terms of one that will elevate the position
group as a whole. But I just keep coming back
to Justin Jones, and it's it's funny because ever since
(15:09):
they're opening press conference, I kind of pair Justin Jones
with Bolal Nichols because of the fact that they came
in together, two guys that were buddies. I believe it
was at the Senior Bowl and they built the connection
there and then developed a friendship and now they're both
teammates and unfortunately both ended up with injuries. But to
separate the two, Justin Jones was that defensive edge that
(15:32):
you needed, and you saw a little bit until he
had that triceps injury. He looked good when he was
out there. But now with how much you've invested in
the position, I don't think he's just a player that
could come back and elevate the room. But he's a
player that while that is the case, if he does
make the roster, that's who I think it'll be.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It's a player you still have questions around, is what
do you have in Jones and where does he fit
with the other pieces that have been brought in, not
only drafting Nolan, but Darius Robinson going into year two
and being healthy and he's put on a lot of muscle,
and just the mental side and the growth in that aspect.
You bring in Kalays Campbell, Dalvin Tomlinson. So where does
(16:09):
Jones fit into this brand new defensive line? You bring
back LJ. Cawy, or you still have Dante Stills. There's
a lot of question marks. So it is on Jones
absolutely to come and have a very good season.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
And I'm not just putting this out there to cause
any controversy or rumors, but we know Nick Rolis's style
is a little bit more that three four base and
he does all these different formations and disguises and schemes
and everything like that. When you look at the depth
of that defensive line room, you have to wonder if
potentially they a little rely, a little bit more on
a four to three front so that they could get
(16:43):
a little bit more pressure from their interior defensive lineman.
I'm not sure if a scheme change like that were
to happen that benefits guys like Justin Jones and Baall
and Nichols if they do crack that fifty three, because
then you know that they're going to be out there.
But I don't know, Danny. It's funny because we're thinking
about players coming back from injury. Those are kind of
(17:04):
the two main guys. But I also wonder we spoke
a little bit about it on Fridays Covered Too with
Darren Irman about Trey Benson coming back from injury. He
had that injury towards the back end of the season,
just when he was starting to ramp up. What does
the second year running back look like behind James Connor.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
That is a great question that leads me to the
player that comes to the forefront of my mind, right
tackle Jonah Williams. He got hurt Week one in Buffalo,
missed a significant amount of the season last year, came
back and then suffered another injury and wasn't able to
finish the season. First OTA's last week, he was working
out on the side with trainers. Where is he at
(17:39):
in his rehab process. It was it was like injury.
It was me right that he was suffering from near
the end of the season. So where's Williams in his
rehab Jersey rehab process? That is someone you brought in
in the offseason last year to come and be your
right tackle. You moved Paris Johnson Junior from right to
left and then you don't have Williams, so you're relying
mostly on Calvin Beacham. And then when you had other
(18:01):
injuries right, you were having to rely on Jackson Barton.
Christian Jones got a few snaps as a rookie, where's
Williams at and what can you expect from him health
wise and performance wise at the start of the season,
Because that's going to have a trickle down effect of
who's going to be your backup right tackle. Is Jones
ready for that or are you going to keep beat them?
And if that's the case, then what about the other tackles?
(18:24):
And so it really is a trickle down effect of
where is Williams at and what can you expect from him?
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's funny, I don't think that there's a quarter of
football we as an on air staff talk about more
than that first quarter in the first game against the
Buffalo Bills, because that was the first and only time
that every single player in the offensive line was fully healthy,
and Jonah Williams went down with that knee injury in
the last player of the first quarter, and then he
didn't come back into I believe it was after the
(18:50):
bye week when they played the Seattle Seahawks, and he
didn't really look like the Jonah Williams we saw from
the beginning.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
He was struggling a little bit.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
You know, you could attribute that to Russ, You could
attribute that to a handful of different things. But then
when that game against the Carolina Panthers came back around
and he injured himself again, you started to realize that
what was happening on the offensive line was more than,
you know, just that was more than just one injury.
You wanted to see what he was able to bring
out there, and you know, Kelvin Beacham did a great job,
(19:19):
which is why the Cardinals decided to bring him back.
Now he's entering year fourteen, if I'm not mistaken, so
beach has been around the block, you know, quite for
quite a long time. I do think that wherever Jonah
Williams is in his recovery process. You would obviously hope
that the number one player you brought in in that
free agency class of twenty twenty four was Jonah Williams.
You hope to see him out there playing and you know,
(19:42):
making the most of the money that the Cardinals ended
up spending on the right tackle. However, if he's not
healthy enough, you do know that you have Kelvin Beachum,
who is more than a quality backup tackle because on
a lot of other teams in the NFL he would
be a Day one starter.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Something to give in mind to you when Williams came back.
By that point, right guard Hernandez was done for the
year and you were having rotation in that spot on
the right side between Tristan Cologne and Isaiah Adams as
a rookie. So that was also something to keep in
mind there. So when we're talking about the offense and
the offensive line and the run game, offensive coordinator drewspect
(20:18):
Drew Petson spoke with the media last week and one
of the few things he was talking about with the
quarterback with Kyler Murray was the run game. Not the
typical way we talk about the run game though it
was about rolling out. It was about how Murray uses
his legs in plays that are not designed for him
(20:38):
to run the ball right when he's just making the
call and he's going and he's out there and he's
playing football. So what did the offensive coordinator have to
say about those plays?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
From the quarterback? He gave a really good breakdown of
Kyler Murray's usage from inside the pocket versus outside the pocket,
on plays where is designed for him to be outside
the pocket, versus off schedule plays, And he said, to look,
Kyler Murray is as good as any when it comes
to being a player that rolls out of the pocket
and you know, has plays where it's off schedule. You
(21:08):
think back to that eighteen yard touchdown to Elijah Higgins
in the back of the end zone in Week two
against the Los Angeles Rams. Also that sixty yard touchdown
to Marvin Harrison Junior where Kyler scrambled out of the pocket,
was looking downfield and Marvin was starting to feel the
defense a little bit. Now was the first sign of
Marvin's potential as a wide receiver in the NFL where
he broke free off his route a little bit, Kyler
(21:30):
Murray found him, you know, down the field on that
crossing route that ultimately turned into that sixty yard touchdown.
But to break down the numbers, Tayo Mackie from az
Republic put down a breakdown of Kyler Murray's percentages and
his usage on straight dropbacks versus rollouts versus scrambles. On
straight dropbacks six point nine to seven yards per average.
So let's say seven yards per average, fifteen touchdowns, seven interceptions.
(21:53):
That's right around the standard of what you expect from
a quarterback on the draft backs on rollout plays. Now,
this is designed rollout plays ten point nine yards per average,
three touchdowns, one interceptions. Okay, when Kyler Murray's out of
the pocket, defenses have to move around a little bit
because he has that threat to break free and run
down the field if he so chooses. Now, what it
gets interesting is the scramble routes where it is off schedule.
(22:17):
This is Kyler Murray looking down the field. Five point
one to three yards per average, three touchdowns, three interceptions.
That's the high risk, high reward. When you have a
player that's moving outside the pocket as much as Kyler
Murray does, he has the ability to have that high risk,
high reward, the high risk and high reward component of it.
The reward is you see it touchdowns to Marvin Harrison
(22:37):
junior Elijah Higgins, but the interceptions is definitely what's a concern.
And Drew Petsy was talking about how they've been working
throughout the offseason on making those designed rollouts where Kyler's
numbers are significantly higher, making that more of a priority
to work on throughout the offseason versus just the off
scheduled off plays.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I love hearing that you don't ever want to find
a player, specifically your quarterback, in a position where they
don't feel comfortable, they don't feel prepared out there on
the field. So I like the fact that they are
practicing these off scheduled runs that way when those moments
arise during a game, because you know they will during
the season. Not only your quarterback, everyone around him feels prepared,
(23:18):
especially when you've got a QB who is as talented
with his legs as Murray is. From a timing standpoint,
from the blocking from the offensive line, from the route running,
and the timing from his receivers, everybody can be on
the same page. I like the fact that they are
practicing those specific plays. Last season, Murray had seventy eight
carries that was second only behind James Connor two thirty six.
(23:41):
Now Trey Benson only played thirteen games, he had sixty
three carries. Do you want to find a situation where
your QB, even as talented as he is, is still
running the ball second most on the team, or is
this a situation where the Cardinals run game was so
successful last year and you know you're gonna have your
one two punch in Connor and Benson. Is that something
that just a.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Little bit, I think that that's part of the balance
of a good offense because when the past game isn't working,
you go to the run game, and when the run
game isn't working, you try to utilize Kyler Murray's legs
to the best of his ability. And we know that
he is one of the most special players in the
league when it comes to those off scheduled plays and
having those Murray Magic kind of moments throughout the field. However,
(24:23):
when we talk about it, you can only work on
it so much during practices because those designed off schedule
plays are just Kyler Murray's instincts and natural ability taking over.
And I remember talking with Marvin Harrison Junior about it
during the regular season. I think it was after that
sixty yard touchdown, and I asked him, is this something
you're even able to practice? And he said, you could
practice it as much as you can. But when you
(24:45):
know when the defense, the Cardinals defense is going up
against the Cardinals offense, they know Kyler Murray's skill set
quite a bit. So those off scheduled plays, you can't
go after the quarterback because you have to keep a
distance from QB one, make sure he's not touched with
the reason why he wears a different color jersey than
every other player that's out on the field. So you
can only work on it as much. To go back
to your question, though, Danny, you don't. I think in
(25:07):
some cases you don't want your quarterback want to be
running back too.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
In a lot of ways. Out on the.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Field, however, Kyler Murray's skill set puts him in a
different category than you know. I would say maybe twenty
seven twenty eight other quarterbacks in the NFL, so I
think seventy eight carries. It depends on what those seventy
eight carries look like. Is are those just read options
and he's running how much of those are from those
off scheduled plays. I think if you break it down
a little bit more, if Trey Benson was out on
(25:35):
the field, he would have probably exceeded Kyler Murray. But
still those seventy eight eighty snaps, and we know Kyler
Murray said he wants to run more this coming year.
At least that's something of focus for him. If that
is the case, that number is likely to go up. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Absolutely, that's a good point. Is just with his skills
that it depends on the type of runs that we're
talking about here, and now going into your two you
can expect to see more of a balance between Connor
and Benson to keep them both healthy and keep a
defense on their toes a little more as well.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I think with Trey Benson too, And I touched on
this a little bit with Darren Erban. He was just
starting to get his footing in the league and he
was on Burns and Gambo last week and said it
wasn't until Week ten against the New York Jets when
he bounced off a couple of tackles that he kind
of had that realization that he does belong in the league.
And then you go into the bye week, and then
he played a few more games before he was dealing
(26:25):
with that that lower leg injury. If I'm not mistaken,
if that's what it was. So you have some hope
for what Trey Benson could actually end up looking like
as at RB two, that one two three punch, because
you have to you have to put Kyler Murray in
that rushing game category. It's dangerous. It's dangerous for opposing teams.
And if Marvin Harrison Junior and Kyler Murray can continue
(26:47):
to develop that connection and Trey McBride continues his emergence
this offense, I know Kyler said that they're just scratching
the surface of what they could end up becoming. This
is the offseason, and when we get to training camp
and we could see a little bit more and report
on a little bit more and start to put, you know,
paint the picture a little bit better, then we're going
to really be able to see how much Kaiwa's being
(27:07):
used in the run game and also how the passing
game has evolved and developed.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
This is the time for the offense to take the
lid off. When you're breaking down these starters, the key
players on this offense individually where they are in their
professional careers. They are all hitting the peak. Right. You've
got McBride coming off a fantastic here. You've got MHJ
who's going into year or two, had a very good
first rookie season, has put on a lot of muscle,
(27:32):
has been working on the chemistry connection the timing of
his routes with his quarterback. You've got Murray going into
year seven. You still have some consistency on the offensive line,
and then this one two punch in the backfield we've
been talking about. When you put all these players together,
Now there is also that consistency, that consistency, and the
time where it's now because you've got the consistency from
(27:53):
the group, the consistency from your play caller, from the
coaching staff. So now you're able to add some new
detail to what this offense can do and make life
a little more difficult for a defense going into year
three with this coaching staff.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
And that's where it goes into the continuity piece that
Drew Petsing was talking about, and in the article I
wrote about on Azycardinals dot Com was talking about Drew's
philosophy with if he could actually sense the benefits of
that continuity this early on in training camp and during OTAs,
because as we discussed Danny, you can't really see much,
can't really do much. The one on ones don't necessarily
(28:28):
happen like they're going to happen during training camp, and
Drew Patson said he could absolutely sense it because as
much as it's on the field, it's in the meeting
room where you could start to dive into details a
little bit more and you know, find wrinkles and nuances
that you otherwise might not have been able to during
the training camp when Marvin Harrison Junior are still getting
used to what it takes to be a pro in
(28:48):
the NFL. So you're gonna be able to see those
those wrinkles, I'm sure come Week one when they head
over to New Orleans to go play against the Saints. However,
I think you hit on the point the time is now,
and James Connor made the emphasize that he's not playing
forever and he's towards the tail end of his career.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
He has a lot fewer.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Snaps than he started with during his time in Pittsburgh,
so you know, that James Connor, you have him, you know,
under contract for a handful more years. What does that
look like beyond twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, We
don't fully know. Which is exactly why. With Trey McBride
in his prime, Marvin Harrison Junior just starting to get
to that point of learning what it takes to be
an NFL wide receiver for and noticing how the game
(29:29):
has slowed down for him, there's no other option for this.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Team to compete in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
And I know a lot of national experts are still
keeping the Cardinals in the basement. I have no idea why,
because I don't think that there is a team that
has improved in this much. Any team in the NFC
West has improved more than the Arizona Cardinals have.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I agree, And when you're looking at the changes, it's
been very positive players that have been brought in either
through the draft or through free agency. When you've got
other teams around the league that are losing big name
players that they are having to try to replace, or
having to change things, or having major coaching changes that
the Cardinals just aren't having to deal with this offseason,
(30:08):
and call us Homer's.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Call us whatever you will, call us employees. We are
employees of this organization. However, it's not just us. What's
mind boggling to me is you have Pro Football Focus
and a lot of these other media outlets giving A
plus grades to the Cardinals after free agency with the
additions of Josh Swed and then you're bringing guys like
Walter Nolan the third and Will Johnson, and the Cardinals
get eight plus grades again, but then they're still only
(30:31):
given you know, seven eight wins in the Vegas totals.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
I don't know. I don't I don't get Vegas. I
don't know Vegas.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
However, what I do know is that I believe this
Cardinals team is one that is on the rise.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
And what we do know is OTAs start tomorrow Tuesday.
We will hear from head coach Jonathan Gannon at ten am,
so you can tune into that press conference as well.
We will have coverage, well podcast videos, articles covering this
week of OTA's practice, and Zach will be out there. Man,
you're welcome, Craig. We've just been crushing it.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
When he comes back, I wonder if we get like
a gift.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh you think he got us a souvenir from not
but I would hope well, I mean it'd be tough. Now,
maybe he has to go back and get us something
for all of our hard work to cover for.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Him that that is the right thing to do.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Absolutely, It's like, it's what happened the veterans. You know
that you're going to be expecting, you know, the rookies
to pay a price. I know we discussed that last week.
We're not going to go further into that, but maybe
in this case, the veteran you know, gives the rookies
a gift.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Just as excited as I am for Cardinals OTA's practice Tuesday,
I am even more excited to see Craig on Wednesday.
But if he asked me if that's true, I will
say otherwise to his face.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
So, but then we'll know how much he actually listened
to them.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
This was all a trick.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Greg.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Can't wait to see you Cardinals fans. Thanks so much
for tuning into this edition of Cardinals cover two. For
Cody Fincher, Zach Gershman, I'm Danny Surreck. We'll catch you
next time right here on Cardinals Cover two
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