Joe, Beau and Z talk Shedeur and Myles and this reaction Monday - Cleveland Browns Daily - 11.17.25 - Cleveland Browns Daily

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Coming to you live from the Cross Country Mortgage Campus
in Barrie, Ohio. This is Cleveland Browns Daily on eight
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sports betting partner of your Cleveland Browns. Please bet responsibly.
Here are your hosts, Bo Bishop and Nathan Zegura.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm still live on a reaction Monday of Cleveland Brown's Daily,
merely Bo the great z uh. Let's start here because
there we do have a video from the Great Bernie
Cozar that is out.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Obviously, everyone's been chronicling. We've talked about it a lot
over the last week. Went in for liver transplant this morning.
He posted in the last ten minutes from postop. That's
what we know at this point. But all of that
is great. He was so excited last night when he
knew today was going to be the day.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
It felt like it was very touch and go. I
think it was last week, Yeah, I think it was.
I think it was. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, dude. Hey,
I'm out and I'm feeling good.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
It's ready to enjoy the rest of the week and
the rest of our lives.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
You matter, I.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Mean that there you go you matter, Bernie. That's love it,
love it, love it. I love it, love it, love it.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
The enthusiasm has been infectious. I know that we did
some stuff at the stadium for him. The amount of
nineteen jerseys, oh yesterday, the Bernie stuff that was out,
it was just it's just awesome. And he's such he
means so much to this organization, to the city, to
the fans, and it was a lot going on last
week and so for that to happen, and we're not

(01:59):
gonna pretend to be doctors, but this all seems to
be very very.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Good, positive, positive use. This feels like we are going
in a positive direction, which is which is good and
for it's the support of the community for Bernie has
been awesome, the support of the Hasms, and Bernie talked
about how the Browns and the Hasms have basically been
his champion throughout this whole process, and obviously much often
behind the scenes has been It's awesome. He is you know,

(02:25):
I think it hasn't said it once. It was d
actually when we were talking that they're the stewards of
this great cultural asset that is so important to this area.
And Bernie Cozar is absolutely part of that fabric. And
it's awesome that we got this good because I was, Yeah,
we were very worried that we were at some point
and have to do a different show, which is not

(02:45):
one that any of us want to do. And it
feels like, right now, knock on wood, there you go,
that we are. We're moving in a real positive direction.
We love you, Buddy, love you, Bernie. Yes, this one
had it all, Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I mean a four to twenty kick the Baltimore Ravens
in a situation where it's really not win out, you know,
because Pittsburgh hasn't separated the way that they thought. But
this is certainly one if you're from the Baltimore perspective,
you say, go in there, get a win, let's handle
our business and.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Away we go.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
And the defensive performance, the defensive performance that was put
on by this team was herculean and Miles Garrett Miles
Garrett's greatness on display on a week to week basis
is stupefying. Carson Swessinger at linebacker, I know we're gonna
have the hof on the Joe Thomas f I we're

(03:37):
going to talk to him about it too. But an
all Pro level that he's doing on all pro I
mean not all rookie, all pro level, the defensive touchdown
with just everything, he's playing great. This defense is an elite,
elite unit. But the bitter pill in all of that
is in this NFL. That's not enough.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I know that it went head to head with us
on TV, so I did not get to watch it. Yeah,
but I can't help but feel like there's really not
that big of a difference between us and the Denver Broncos.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So I was able to because, I mean, the afternoon
wind it was pretty good. So I had had red
zone and then I had uh we had Rams and
Seahawks where Darnold threw the four picks.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Seat four picks and they lost by two. Yeah, and
had a chance, had chance, had a chance. They're very
much for real. But yeah, what Denver did to Mahomes
was what we did to Lamar. Yep, it was similar.
They just have enough offense to where they can win
and now one eight in a row, right, but tight,
not necessarily pretty. They're doing basically what what when we

(04:52):
laid out our blueprint was, and they've just done enough.
And Bonnix has been clutch enough. He is consistently producing
touchdowns for them. They've been They just have enough. Courtland Sutton,
you know, Mims can make a big play. Troy Franklin
can make a big play. Dobbins could make a big
play when he was healthy.

Speaker 6 (05:05):
RJ.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Harvey can make a big play. They just have They
have an Evan Ingram, they have enough, yep, and they
make it work. And Nick's has a lot of work
with his legs. It's kind of been a big part
of some of their late game heroics, you know. And
that's this defense deserves to be on the main stage.
This defense deserves to be playing for not only a
division title, but for a Super Bowl. That's how good
the Cleveland Browns defense is. And in a year in which,

(05:28):
you know, average offense paired with this defense would have
us atop the AFC North. It is just very That's
what makes this such a difficult pill to swallow. And
while this game was very different because of the second
half in Chador getting in and that, it was the
same great defense, not enough offense, you know, I mean,

(05:50):
you complete lamarg is the worst game Lamar Jackson's had
in years. Oh my gosh, yeah, I mean two picks
he had one pick all year.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, and my I mean, Miles, I mean, it's it's
Hall of Fame, it's it's this is an all time
NFL season defensive season that he's having. I mean he
has what fifteen sacks now.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
And twenty two tackles for loss? What do you have
last year? All year? Twenty two tackles for loss?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
And yeah, yeah, so his career high for sacks is sixteen.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
We have seven left. He's on pace for twenty five
and a half. Yeah, so he it's in Oh god,
the records take play. Yeah, he could get it, for sure,
he could get it. And the tackles for loss he's
and Ronnie Staley's pretty good. Yeah, and they're moving them around.
But yes, he beat Ronnie Stanley was the some of
the hustle ones where you know you're getting some good
pressure from other players. Mike Hall flashed up there for

(06:50):
you in this game. I thought that was great to
see him get to the quarterback. It just Miles Garrett
though right now is singularly great, and it is unfortunate,
as we you know, the reality is the reality. It's
just unfortunate that this is being misstore. I don't know
what the right word is it's not wasted because he

(07:10):
certainly is putting, you know, forth his best effort in
just being dominant, and he's going to get all the
accolades and things that come with that, deservedly so. But
it is not translating to the wins that it should.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
It's very reminiscent of hof it is it is. I mean,
there's you can't help but see the parallels of the
professionalism to show up while team success isn't happening, yep,
and continue to do your job singularly at an elite level.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
But there's also a lesson in this.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I think when you talk about left tackle and defensive end,
you can only do so much, and.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
I'd argue a defensive end is able to do more
to the outcome of absolutely left tackle. But no doubt
this is. But it's still a league kneeling on it
and you've got to score the football.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
I mean, even when we get a defensive score and
you have this type this is dude. Can you imagine
if if we won, if we would have won this
game and won a couple more along the way, what
people would be saying about this defense and about miles.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Miles would be in the MVP of the league conversation.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Heal the losses and that's the way the wins, and
so he can't be but like the reality is, he
probably should be.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
But it also speaks.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
To how limited you are at defensive end to make
an impact in wins and losses.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
It's just it's not quarterback. You can only do so much.
And look, the reality is still this season, we have
scored more than twenty points once. Yeah, we have scored
more than seventeen points twice. That's the reality of this season.
This is a fun exercise because I always sometimes I
do think it's it's a it's a worthwhile exercise. Let's

(08:44):
say if the Browns scored twenty four points a game
this year, what would their record be? What's the NFL
one on average? One and one, two and zero, two
and two, three and two, four and two, five and two,
five and three, five and six and four just scored
twenty four points the game, regardless of what's happening on
the other side the ball. By the way, in some
of these games, had he scored twenty four points, for example,

(09:06):
in the Jets game, they don't get to twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
So the average NFL team this year is scoring twenty
one point eight, twenty one point eight.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, we would still be a team of consequence at
twenty one point eight. At twenty one point eight, and
I think that some of these games would add different
flows if we actually got to twenty one point eight,
then they ultimately had because part of it was, you know,
we were scoring ten throughout the bulk of the game
and then teams just kind of run away. That happened

(09:33):
in the Detroit game, that happened in the Ravens game.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, yeah, he's awesome. Swessinger's awesome, and the defense in
by and large, it's just spectacular. And this was I mean,
you just don't see the Ravens stifled like this. It
just doesn't have and certainly not Lamar. I mean, Lamar
came in completing seven percent of his passes. His quarterback
rating was one twenty seven. His rating was eighty points off.

(09:58):
His huge fourteen to twenty five, one to ninety three,
two picks, five sacks in this game.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah you you They had a big Derek Henry run
where Denzel Ward made an unbelievable play to stop that
from being a touchdown. Yes, huge, huge, that was a Yeah,
that's one of those huge plays. They had a big
past his a Flowers, the one chunk to him for
forty five, and then they had the most under the circumstances,

(10:27):
the craziest call that I've ever seen work so perfectly,
which was the fourth and one. So Mark Anders Mark
Andrews is their sneaker. We knew that now. They had
showed in the week before Mark Andrews pitch it to Lamar,
so they gave you that look, that action, and then
he just spun around and kept it crazy. I don't

(10:49):
know what I said, but I was flummoxed, flabberg astid
I could I went and you knew got the lead
block on it. Somebody came around from the left side
and it kicked out, kned out, and he went boom,
untouched from thirty four yards. Yeah. It's a guy who
had twenty yards rushing, twenty one yards rushing in his
entire career prior to that moment, a guy who'd never
rushed for a touchdown in his career. To pull that

(11:11):
out and to have it work at that level in
that moment was just nuts. Referees I thought had a
little bit of a rough game, certainly missed the off
sides on the last play of the game. But let's
talk about your door for just a second, because I
have been had the pleasure of being live for a
lot of football in my life, obviously with the Browns,

(11:35):
and I have never seen so before. Gibe says that,
I'll say it. I wasn't there. I was against the Jets. Yeah,
that's the one for me. But from TV, and again
I wouldn't say I felt it in the building, but
from TV there was excitement when Baker came in and
they were like they were fired up. But this was

(11:57):
like the place came unglued for a two yard pass.
It did for Bake, it did, But I think he
were there, right, were you there? I mean it was
full pack Thursday.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I already said you were It's full pack. It was
full packed. It was Thursday night. It was as loud.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
I mean, when the biggest cheer, the biggest cheer of
the night is happening right now. Yeah, and it was,
And it was Baker coming out of the van.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Did they react like his first completion like oh my god. Yeah,
But I think he threw like dark down the field
like he was baked. If I remember throwing.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Like oh yeah, but it was he was the prince
that was promised and he was out back and it
was like, I mean, there was no dialogue around if
he's not.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
It was just like when do we get a scene?
What's the deal? And then would it that is the
That is the Apex Brown's crowd.

Speaker 8 (12:56):
keV, do you have the clip of when he came
in yesterday?

Speaker 3 (12:59):
This was loud. Let me take a look, because I mean,
I mean he's coming out and encouraging the crowd. Yeah,
the offensive linemen are all like people were sprinting up
the out of the bombs, up the stairs to get
back into their seats. People I know people who were
in the club that got like knocked over. I talked

(13:21):
to somebody who works here who was in the club
and said that he was worried that like something insane
bad had happened because of the fervor with which people
were sprinting with no regard for anybody who's around them
to get back into their seats.

Speaker 8 (13:35):
It was so we started.

Speaker 7 (13:38):
Raven started with the ball, right and I'm looking at
the notice and Stefanski's talking with I think it's uh
a j Ross or whatever. The sideline reporter for CBS,
and all of a sudden, they just flash away from
that to s who's got a helmet on, talking to
the offense. And I'm like, I'm I'm on talkback with

(14:01):
Gerard and Clay. I'm like, yeah, what is going on? Yeah,
They're like, hold on, Dom's talking to us right now,
and Girod's like, Gabriel's in concussion protocol And I was like, QB,
QB change, QB change.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, happening.

Speaker 8 (14:17):
And it's happening right now. Do you you said you
had that guy?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Yes, I do.

Speaker 9 (14:22):
We are told that Dylan Gabriel is being evaluated for
a head injury.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
This just handed to us.

Speaker 9 (14:28):
It could be shaud or Sanders time. Everybody and ladies
and gentlemen should or Sanders is at quarterback and listen
to the crowd. Buckle up, everybody, the offensive line calling
for quiet here as this crowd welcomes Shadoor Sanders to

(14:52):
the field for the very first time in his rookie season.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Do we have do we have? Like the first throw
he thres like a two yard hitched out to Tillman.
I mean, the place comes on. It was as if
we had just won the AFC North. That was how
loud the reaction was for that pass. Bless you.

Speaker 7 (15:16):
I don't know if we have it was a wild
let's do it.

Speaker 9 (15:20):
Sanders waiting forty his first NFL snap roll out to
the right, out of plate, thick throw right, caught by
Killman at the twenty nine and run out of bounds
by wigs.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Crowd reacting like he just threw the ball ninety five
yards to Cedric Tillman going absolutely bonkers. Great, that's great,
that's great.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
It was.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
It was kind of a surreal thing to to be
a part of some good obviously some not so good,
which Chador in this game, I thought I loved his
willingness to push the ball down the field. Yeah, I
thought that. You know, he made a great throw. The
one that you want back is where he spins out
of thel and he has Isaiah Bond in the back
corner and he just overshot it. And that's one that

(16:03):
I think he hits a lot, but the adrenaline was
probably pumping puts a little bit extra on it. That
should have been the touchdown. Then he comes back makes
a great throat egauge Larvadan. Now if you watch that
one back probably as an opportunity for a catch and
run chunk to Jerry Judy because they blitzed off of there.
The guy was about ten yards off. Judy shakes him
the outside in his wide open But I liked his

(16:23):
willingness to push the ball down the field. I thought
the throw to Harold Fannon was an excellent throw. You
cannot drift back in the NFL. That just does not
work ball security, especially when he's drifting. He likes to
switch the ball in his hands a lot, because I
think in college would switch into his left hand push somebody.
No ball ended up on the ground a couple of times.

(16:44):
But I also think people are making an absolute mountain
out of a mole hill. When you are the fourth
string quarterback, which is what he was, you do not
get any first team reps in OTAs or a train camp.
Now he had being the third stringer because of the
injury to Kenny Pickett, and we talked about you can
go back and play all the tape. We thought he'd

(17:05):
earned an opportunity to get first team reps. Didn't get
first team.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Just to be clear, we're talking about training camp, training camp,
not last GEK.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
No train camp. And then you know, he is the
backup quarterback. Backup quarterbacks typically do not get any first
team reps. Now, Dylan Gabriel did earlier in the year
because he's playing behind an eighteen year veteran in Joe Flacco.
But you're getting your rookie ready, and so I think
people are making a bigger deal out of that.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
They think there's an incredible disconnect on the reality. Well,
there's some people talking about this and the reality of NFL,
and I think the problem is and that there's some
people who don't know any better, that just don't understand
how NFL practice works or what goes into it. But
there's plenty of people who do and should know better.
And the idea that there's been some sort of malfeasance

(17:51):
here or some that he's been some disservice.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Backups don't get reps. This is the NFL.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
They have a finite amount of place to get in
a practice. They need to start to get those plays.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
That's it. That's the list.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
And many NFL backup quarterbacks have illuminated this for the
course of today about yes, I mean this is insane,
this all this dialogue. So there's some people are just
just damn clueless. And then there's some people that are
just disingenuous. And I don't know which one's worse, but
my guess is my feeling is probably the latter.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, I think those are the ones that are if
you don't know better, you don't know better. But when
you do know better, Yeah, that is it is disingenuous,
and it is to try to, you know, get things going.
Now with all that being said, because listen, let's be honest,
what is What're the Browns? We have dealt with this before,
and not even in the middle of a game. We've
dealt with it right before a game. I'll take you

(18:39):
back to I believe twenty twenty three Deshaun Watson gets hurt,
but nobody realizes he's not going to play. Yeah, he's
basically just he's out on Sunday morning and DTR has
to play. Now. DTR was a fifth round rookie at
that time. He didn't get any reps. No, that wasn't
even a story.

Speaker 5 (18:59):
No.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
I wasn't like there a conspiracy against ETR. It's just
that's the reality of this league. Now. I do want
to see very much. So should war Sanders get a
full week have a game plan tailor made to his strengths,
and you know, hopefully we'll get that opportunity perhaps this
week with Dylan in the concussion protocol. But I saw

(19:20):
a lot of what I expected, good and bad. Yeah,
you saw some good throws. Again, the fan and throw
was an excellent throw. You saw the ability to push
the ball down the field, willingness to push the ball
down the field. Now you also saw him get throw
a bad interception. You saw him be very confused by
the blitzes that he was seeing from the Baltimore Ravens.

(19:41):
You saw some of the bad habits of holding the
ball and drifting out. But I think those are things
for him that are only going to get cured by playing.
Because I still believe, and I said I was on record,
I think that he has the ball placement, the accuracy
of the arm, all of that to be a good
starter in the NFL. And I think if you go back,
one of the things that we learned that we weren't
privy to prior to the Draft, that I think you've

(20:03):
learned coming out of it is just that he is
going to have a huge learning curve and the things
that he is asked to do as an NFL quarterback
pre and post NAT that he was not asked to
do in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
No, I think his collegiate experience, which in part fed
into all of this because him and his dad and
Travis Hunter took college football by storm. They were one
of the most watched teams in college football the two
years he was at CU kind of out of nowhere.
I mean it really was. It was kind of out
of nowhere where this kind of happened, where you're getting
ten million people watching their games at ten o'clock at

(20:34):
night on the Saturday against Colorado State, like they were
a phenomenon. And then in their first year they were
a phenomenon without a whole lot of sub the second
year they were a team of consequence. Their one loss,
I want to say they lost at Kansas late in
his last year at Colorado, that if they win that game,
they might be a playoff team last year, so that
they were a real team of consequence last year at Colorado,

(20:54):
Travis won the Heisman like all that stuff. So he
was such a known commodity and that we see that
there's a massive curve for college quarterbacks going to the
NFL anyway, But the way that they played at Colorado
probably makes that curve even larger.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Here.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I thought he made I thought the throw to Larvin
in was great. The fan and throw is great. The
crazy thing about the Bond throw is we saw him
make that throw in camp routinely, Like that's the throw
he made that deep corner cross where you put it
on the screws down the field. I mean, it's he
did it all the time.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
That's a layered throw.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Go listen to our shows from camp, and we talked
about his ability to layer throws down the middle of
the field and put perfect height in with all of
those things.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
So you saw that.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
And the only thing that I the only other thing
that I just real quick on this is I hate
that this came at the expense of a Dylan injury. Yes,
because I think that I think Dylan has been in
a very difficult spot for weeks, very difficult, and and.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
So clearly I don't I don't think anybody UNRT, I
don't think anybody was able to foresee. Yeah, now you
can you can debate whether they should have been, but
I don't think anybody really was able to foresee what
it was going to mean. And the unfortunate part is
that Dylan Gabriel, who is shown to me to be

(22:20):
exactly what I think he was when you draft him,
which is a competent backup quarterback in the National Football
League who can come in start some games for you.
And right now at least, what they're asking him to
do is not lose games for them. But he needs
to show that he can win games if he ever
wants to be more than that. But he's going to
take care of the football. It's not going to be
super exciting at this point, but that he's got he

(22:41):
is kind of what I think you draft me. There's
a guy who wants he wants to be on every week,
every week, every week, his show, his show, everywhere, every there,
he goes every week he's on.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yes, that's our guy, right, that's our guy, the great tars.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Just he wasn't drafted to be the saver of this franchise.
He being Dylan Gabriel. Sure, Sanders. Actually, I think most
people would agree has a better chance to be that.
But it is a bigger lift, right, It's a lottery ticket, right,
which is what we've always said. But I don't think
people are realized or I would think they didn't because

(23:24):
you would have put him. You liked Dylan Gabriel better,
that's obvious. You picked him, yeah, in the third room.
From a just a cultural standpoint in terms of fans
and media and everything around, everybody who talks about the
NFL for a living, nobody wants Dylan Gabriel. No, they
all want Sha Door. So he is in almost an

(23:47):
impossible spot, Like if you're being just from a human
being standpoint, like I feel this kid. He's trying to
make it in the NFL. He's been put in a
position as a full time starter early in his rookie
year that third round picks are not typically put in,
you know, And so you can go back and say, well,
should Kenny Pickett still be here? Should Joe Flacco still
be here? But this is the situation that you're in,

(24:07):
and now you have, you know, Shador who has this
backing because everybody people can can't separate the fact that
the NFL told you what they thought his initial prospect
grade was versus what everybody had seen in college and
been told by anybody who talked about this draft for months.

(24:29):
I mean, mel Kuiper was apoplectic as the drafting and
mel Kuiper's voice carries a lot of weight with people. Well,
Dane had him the lowest. I think he had him
thirty fifth. The lowest you ever heard anybody talking about
it was the mid second round pick. Yeah, the absolute lowest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
So there was a massive disconnect between the tape and
the reality from NFL teams, which has been over the
two thousand times.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Which goes to the heavier lift to get him ready
to play here. But I want to see Shador Sanders
need to get that opportunity where you've got and I
don't think it's going to be overnight. I think, as
we talked about, there are are things that he is
going to have to curb in order to maximize his potential,
and I think he's one of those things is going
to be He's got to understand that, like sometimes you

(25:09):
throw the ball away, you cannot drift backwards consistently. In
the NFL. There's only one player I've ever seen who,
at the beginning of their career was able to consistently
drift backwards and be successful, and that's Patrick Mahomes, who
has only one an arm that is different than everybody else's.
We still talking about its Madden, where you just drift drift,
drift drift, and then you can throw it. It really doesn't
matter if you're throwing at thirty yards, forty yards fifty,

(25:30):
it doesn't matter. That's Mahomes we guitar as so fired
upom his room came to play. There's no doubt about that.
Two picks a touchdown. Yeah, But I think that let's
just look at it for what it was. It was
a rookie fifth round pick who was thrust into action
against a very good defense, same defense, by the way

(25:51):
that dtr was thrust in against a few years ago.
And he had a couple of moments he had a
chance that the Isaiah Bond one you know that sets
this world on fire. Yep, if he hits that one.
But showed some good and showed things that we need
to work on. I think you saw all of it.
You saw the good throw, touch, accuracy on the ball

(26:11):
to Harold Fan. He saw on the throat to Gauge
Larvadan again, another downfield throw you saw. He will if
he plays quarterback for us, he will push the ball
down the field. And I think the calculus we need
to have right now is will his chunk plays that
he'll produce, because I believe that he will, especially if
he's getting all the work and all of that. Is
that going to be enough to offset the fact that
you're going to have maybe a picker. He will be

(26:33):
more likely to turn the football over than Dylan And
he certainly is going to take a couple fifteen twenty
yard sack drive killers in a game. Yes, And if
you can live with that, and you can say, okay, look,
twenty one points is three touchdown drives. So if he
can be explosive a couple times a game, Worri, you
have a better chance to score points, I think than

(26:54):
we do on trying to dink and dunk. And it
might also create some room for quin Shawn Judkins.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yes, which we've said all year we were playing in
the red zone, which is massive. His willingness to throw
it down the field, he's very comfortable doing that. He
gave out of Colorado all the time. Like that's where
some of that drifting comes from. Is he's waiting for
some of that stuff like it's cu and I think
that's the habit that he's going to have to break
as he gets now in the league. It's something he's

(27:20):
done probably his whole life.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Well, I think part of it too is at Colorado,
I would imagine the plays were very simple, read this,
throw it here or there. If it's not there, run
around and throw it to Travis. Yeah, you know, and
that's that doesn't work well in the NFL. No, And
I'll tell you a guy who I think had a
little bit of that to his game. Now, he was
from a college standpoint, obviously a much better runner and

(27:43):
all that, but was John Football. And John Football had
a guy named Mike Evans that if you watched a
lot of those old Texas A and M games, was
if it's not there in structure, and Johnny has gone
on and say, I didn't even know the playbook half
at the time, run around and then throw it up
to Mike Evans and that works. That is very hard
in the NFL. There are very few people like even

(28:03):
when when Mike Tye was the head coach of the
Minnesota Vikings, he's like, we're gonna have the Randy ratio
where one out of every two passes has to go
to Randy Moss. It still is hard. There are a
very few guys in the NFL you can consistently just
be like I'm gonna run around and throw it up
to and have consistent success. It is very different than
the college game in that regard. In college you can
one guy who is transcendent can most weeks because of

(28:27):
the level of competition varies all of that, most weeks
be transcendent. The NFL, there are a lot of very
very good guys. That's what makes Mike Evans. That shows
you how special he was that he was able to
have you in on a thousand yards every year his
career prior to this one where he suffered this injury,
which is unfortunate. But you know, maybe Jeremiah Smith will
reach out. You know, there is a time when probably
Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, certainly there's a time when maybe

(28:49):
Andre Johnson. But that is very few and far between
to be able to think that you can operate that way.
So if he can eliminate those, you know, drive killing
huge sects, if he can always and step up and
take six yard sacks, yeah, that's a huge difference. That's
a huge difference. I think the talent is there. I've
always thought the talent was there. I think that anybody
who thinks that this is some type of a conspiracy

(29:10):
for an organization that is desperate to find a quarterback
is bigly mistaken. And I hope that and I believe
formly we will see some opportunities as this season goes
on for Shador to get all the reps and to
go out there with the game plan and hopefully show
improvement because his high level is so high. But four

(29:30):
sixteen is not going to cut in the NFL. Taking
those sacks out, you're going to have to learn to
understand and decipher blitzes and nowhere to go. There were
plays to be made if you watch the tape against
some of those blitzes where you've got to know where
your hot is and get the ball to your hot quickly,
where he did not do that.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
If you listen to him, like, his charisma is infectious,
his enthusiasm is infectious, his post game was great. It's awesome,
like it's all of the things is to fall in
love with him. He's such a likable kid. Yes and
kid man, and he's and look there were you and
I were going to the combine going like take him
at too.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I want like let's go like we did the tape.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
We did all of it, and so now maybe this
is the chance where he gets that extended look. We'll see,
but I am curious to see what this can do.
And I just think like put in a tough spot,
he did more than fine. And I think that there
were are there opportunities, sure, but I think that there
was some stuff in terms he's he is pretty fearless

(30:27):
throwing the ball, and sometimes that's bad, but sometimes that's
really good. And it allowed for our offense to be
a little bit more. It made Baltimore defend a little
bit more. Now they blitzed all the time, and that's
something that's got to get fixed immediately because we weren't
ready for that obviously.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Wasn't oh for six against the blitz. Yeah, quarterback rating
of zero, oh for seven against pressure under pressure rating
of zero. You can't severad time to throw this game
is four point two four seconds. I think that's that's
not that that is not NFL. And the only guys
that can even approach something like that were early in
his career or younger Lamar who was more willing to
run around and buy time, or mahomes when he used
to just run around and buy time. That is not

(31:04):
a consistent model for success in the National Football League.
But again, I saw things that I liked. I saw
things that were concerning in the direction that I thought
we're going to be concerning. But I really think we're
two and eight. I would like to see him get
at least a month, you know, and then maybe you

(31:26):
can form a little bit more of an opinion on it.
But at least a month of Okay, who is he?
Can he fix some of these things to make, you know,
eliminate some of the bad, accentuate the good, and maybe
get us to a point where we can we can
play some offense here. Yeah, and that I don't mean
that as a knock on Dylan, I think, and I

(31:46):
could be wrong. I have a pretty good handle on
who Dylan Gabriel is right now, and I think he
will only get better with time and as he's willing
to open it up a little bit more and all
of those the growth that was great, and I think
the evolution for Dylan Gabriel is third and five plus
when it's just a dropback situation. I think when you

(32:07):
can get him play action or we had the fun
where great play design, where it's the fake bubble, you
have the slot fade, and then you have the kind
of the skinny post mine and he puts that ball
on the dime. To Tillman, that's good, but that's not
just can I drop back and throw it? Like I
think Shadoor is probably our best option right now in
just a straight up can I drop back and throw
at the situation, there are the things He's got to
make sure he stays on his spots and does not drift.

(32:28):
It would drive you know, offensive lineman crazy, but you
know he can do that, and so I want to
see him get that opportunity, not at the expense of Dylan.
I think that, you know, Dylan Gabriel has shown me
he absolutely belongs in the NFL. I think he will
be at Cleveland Brown for the next few years and
as maybe as times goes on and he gets another
opportunity in there can regress to where he can be,

(32:50):
you know, a starter. But I always said, you know,
he's a guy that they think can be like a
Case Keenum, and a case Keenum was a long time
backup who could come in for you win games when
you need it. Got hot for a little while there
in Minnesota, you know, became a starter for a year,
had that magical year due to injury, goes to Denver.
Is now a full time start, not as great, but
it can stay in the league forever. Yeah, because he

(33:11):
is reliable, he will not lose you games. And I
think sometimes that's what you want on backup. Go out there,
just make sure we don't lose me in the game,
and hopefully everything else around you can help us win it.
And I think tell On Gabriel certainly has that competency
to do that. But I think what we're looking for
is a big solution. And I think, and I've said
all along, I think Shador is a gone this shuts
it has an opportunity to do that. There's so much

(33:33):
that has to be cleaned up for that to become
a reality. But that's only gonna happen, I think with opportunity,
and I think with Shador, you're gonna get a real
clear answer. Yes, you pay him, play him the rest
of the way you're gonna have. I don't think there's
gonna be a lot of great I think it's either
gonna be like Okay, yeah, this can work, or it's
gonna be like, Okay, no, this is This is a tougher,
tougher road to.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Ho Those are your hot topics today, presented a University
Hospital's official healthcare partner of your Cleveland Browns. You've heard
what we've had to say about the game yesterday. You're
gonna hear from Coach Defanski coming up next.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
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Speaker 2 (34:05):
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Speaker 1 (34:17):
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Speaker 3 (34:33):
All right, Welcome back in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Ron's Daily presented by bally Bet, official sportsminning partner of
your Cleveland Browns. Please bet responsibly. Timed owt ahead to
the podium. It's presented by Vivid Seats. Vivid Seats per
your official fan experience package today for the ultimate game Day.
Here's your head coach Kevin Stefanski at the podium from
earlier today.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
All right, before we get gone, I just want to
obviously probably let everybody know we're thinking about Bernie as
he's going through his medical situation here. Was able to
text with him last night and he knows that that
he we're with him and he's with us. So just
sending all the good vibes, good good thoughts I can

(35:12):
to Bernie right now. Injury front, Dom Jones has a
significant knee injury, likely heading to I R H. Jack Conklin,
Cam Robinson those knee injuries. Will treat those day to day.
I'll know more as the week goes on. Dylan Gabriel
remains in the concussion protocol.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
You know, obviously watch the tape last night this morning,
watching it now with the players and and disappointed because
that's a ball game in the fourth quarter where you
want to go finish and and and get a win
as as a football team, and and we came up short.
And it's it's all things that we will learn from,
uh that that we absolutely have to play complimentary ball there, offense, defense,

(35:56):
special teams to find a way to win. And that's
what be focused on this week. With that, I'll take
any questions.

Speaker 10 (36:03):
Yeah, Kevin, what do you think the plan will be
with Dylan being in the protocol, Will you kind of
lean towards turning it over to shod Door so we
can get that full week of practice and be ready
to go on Sunday.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
Yeah, we'll work through that in the next couple of
days and this week obviously, Mary Kay, I'll update you
guys Wednesday as we get into Vegas preparations.

Speaker 11 (36:26):
Hey, Kevin, when you look back at Shulder's you know,
first experience yesterday, what are the biggest maybe coaching points
in what a you're telling them, especially about dealing with
the pressure that the Ravens brought.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
Well, I think you learn from every single place Scott
that's up there, and there's always lessons to be learned.
And obviously there's always going to be good and there's always
gonna be bad, and that's just part of playing and
getting reps, and then part of learning is taking all
those coaching points that come with those reps.

Speaker 11 (36:56):
And what'd you say on those two the back to
back droves into the end zone looked like they had
a chance. Just need to be better balls or what
did you see there?

Speaker 5 (37:04):
Yeah, trying to make a play on both of those
scrambled drill obviously trying to make a big play, got
out of the pocket, did a nice job, and then
their player made a nice play down the field.

Speaker 12 (37:14):
Hey, Kevin, I wanted to ask, now, do you have
any further details on like everything surrounding doing concussion check?
Was he presenting symptoms to say anything?

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Was it a spot er? How did that come to be? Yeah,
he was feeling symptoms at halftime. Obviously got with the
trainers immediately and addressed it.

Speaker 12 (37:35):
And as of this morning, is he still presenting symptoms
to your knowledge?

Speaker 5 (37:41):
Yeah, I'm not going to get into specifics, but he's
still in the protocol.

Speaker 6 (37:44):
Kevin, I know this is a weekly question, but will
Watson be cleared of practice?

Speaker 5 (37:51):
Yeah? I don't have an update there.

Speaker 13 (37:53):
Okay, And you said last night that if Gabriel is unable,
play would be Shador.

Speaker 14 (38:02):
You have ZAPPI. Also, is there any need for another
quarterback to join the team this week?

Speaker 5 (38:08):
Yeah, all things that will work through. But feel good
about our group.

Speaker 14 (38:14):
Okay, thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 15 (38:16):
What are the challenges for your offensive line when Gabriel
and Shador have such different styles?

Speaker 5 (38:23):
Yeah? I think for all players, Jeff, it's just important
that you focus on your job and our guys know
what our roles are and that there are. Of course,
there's different styles to quarterbacks, there's different styles to runners.
You know how the running back you're starting running back
may running plays a little bit different than the backup
running back. But that's all part of it. And I

(38:46):
think the big focus there, Jeff, is just that everybody
does their their job on any given play.

Speaker 15 (38:51):
But I mean it seems to me in the way
that their styles are so contrasted, it has to really
be more difficult or I got but different for your line.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
Yeah, the general principles, the rules, you know, how we
structure the protection is regardless of the quarterback.

Speaker 14 (39:11):
You thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 16 (39:12):
I know why it said post game yesterday that it
took them a good couple of minutes to get used
to Shador's cadence and everything. Just what do you think
of the offensive lines performing second half and just everybody
trying to adjust on the fly.

Speaker 5 (39:30):
Yeah, I thought, listen, we can be better in a
bunch of different areas. Obviously, those are things that we
will continue to improve, but that's that's all. Part of
playing this game is making sure that when guys come
in and out of a lineup that you don't miss beat.

Speaker 17 (39:47):
Kevin, if I could follow up on Deshaun real quick,
when's the deadline for you guys to make a decision
about him on that reserve pup, whether or not you
will open that twenty one day window.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
Yeah, I don't. I don't know the answer to that, Darryl.
I know he's doing a great job in meetings supporting
the guys.

Speaker 17 (40:06):
And then just on Shador when you when when you
watch that yesterday, obviously that's a tough spot for him
to come in. We you know, talked about the lack
of first team reps and whatnot. Just what did you
see from him? You know when you went back and
watched the film this morning, and you know how much
of that do you think, you know, positive or negative?

(40:28):
You know, can he take you know a step forward
by now getting some practice time?

Speaker 5 (40:35):
Yeah, I think it's all positive. You're constantly learning as
a young football player, constantly learning as a quarterback through
through all reps. You know, we talked so much about
mental reps and those type of things, how important they are,
so all those physical reps I think add up and
will only improve as he continues to get turns.

Speaker 18 (40:55):
And I know a lot of teams structure kind of
how they give their reps away their backups. Kind of Similarly,
when you look at that situation and knowing that Shador
didn't get those first team reps, would you have changed
anything about the approach about how you maybe divided up
the first team reps from training camp to now.

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Yeah, I understand the question. Cam. I think it's important
that you do what you think is right for a
football team. The development of our players is constant. It
doesn't happen just in one drill or in one practice
or one meeting. So we trust our guys, We trust
our backup players to be ready to go. And Shad

(41:36):
Door is ready to go. Obviously. I know he wants
to play better, I want to coach better, all those
type of things. But that just comes. That'll come through work.
That's where it will come.

Speaker 18 (41:45):
And then on the other side of the ball, Devin
Bush said yesterday that you know they want to do more,
specifically for Miles Garrett in a game that he has
four sacks five tackles for loss, they want to do
more not only to help push him, but to get him.
I know it's not just Miles, but is that kind
of a shared mindset and the team of not wanting

(42:05):
to waste big performances, so to say, by not getting
the win.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
Yeah, we're so focused on one thing, Cam and one
thing only, and that's winning, and that's winning as a team.
And when you come up short, it's hard to really
think about anything else about it about a given game.

Speaker 14 (42:23):
Thank Kevin.

Speaker 19 (42:24):
I got just a couple of questions about tackles position.
Obviously you say it's day to day with Jack and Cam,
But would the plan be Tevin and Kat likely to
start at those spots?

Speaker 14 (42:37):
What would be kind of the.

Speaker 4 (42:38):
What is the kind of contingency plan there?

Speaker 5 (42:40):
Yeah, we have options, Chris. We have to work through
all those things this week. Obviously the availability of Jack
and Cam will determine that. But KT went in there
when we had an injury yesterday. Tevin went in there
when we had an injury yesterday. So those are certainly
options if that's the case.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
And then this is like the third straight year where
you've just had all sorts of injuries at that specific position,
both tackle spots. Have you ever seen anything quite like
that in your time in the league.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
Can't remember. I don't know, But again, I think it
goes back to injuries are a very, very unfortunate part
of this foot of this game of football, and we
have guys that are backups and we trust them.

Speaker 14 (43:26):
Thanks.

Speaker 20 (43:27):
Hey, Kevin, I wanted to ask you if you could
just explain some of the different nuances and challenges I
know you have in the past of you know, splitting
up reps with a rookie starting quarterback and a rookie
backup quarterback, and the different challenges that that kind of presents.

Speaker 5 (43:45):
Yeah, you know, obviously reps themselves are different, both in
the off season and in the regular season. We've always
structured it with making sure we're getting all of our
guys ready to play. You know, I think our players,
starters and backups do a great job of maximizing all
of their opportunities, whether it comes again in a given rep,

(44:09):
or it comes in a meeting, whatever it may be.

Speaker 10 (44:11):
Yeah, A couple of questions here real quick for you, Kevin.
First of all, when you said after the game that
Dylan will you know, would start if he cleared the
concussion protocol, were you pretty much talking about the Raiders
game and will you take this kind of week to week?
I mean you didn't, is that correct?

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Yeah, I'm just talking about the fact that he's in
the concussion protocol, so we'll obviously make sure that that
takes precedent here Mary kay, and make sure that he's
getting better by the day.

Speaker 10 (44:43):
But what I'm what I mean by that is does
Shador have a chance to nail this thing and hang
on to the starting job if he goes out there
and performs well and then when Gabriel comes back, or
how is that going?

Speaker 6 (44:56):
How is that?

Speaker 5 (44:57):
I'm not going to speculate on that type of thing.
I know this. We we trust our players. We trust
our guys to put in the work, and we're just
gonna be solely focused on this game that's in front
of us.

Speaker 10 (45:09):
Okay, And then you've been around a lot of offensive
football throughout your whole entire career. Just so people have
an understanding about how those first team reps work in practice,
Like all those years that you were in Minnesota, was
it ever customary to give QB two any of those

(45:30):
first team reps in practice?

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Yeah? And I understand the question. No, the starter gets
the vast majority, obviously, if not the entire majority. I
will say this, we trust our players. Shrador is putting
in great work, and you know on the field in
the meeting room, he will be better with all with

(45:53):
reps that he's getting, like any player would be better.
But we trust him. Uh and he's somebody that's that's
continued to put the work and will continue to do so.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Okay, thank you, Kevin.

Speaker 13 (46:04):
You last night, Miles mentioned that Shador sort of tried
to shoulder the blame for the loss sort of in
front of the team in the locker room. Just what
was your message to him in that moment? Miles kind
of said, you know, he wasn't going to let him
do that, But what was your message shorted to him?

Speaker 5 (46:19):
Yeah, obviously I'll keep you know, those type of messages
between us. But this game has never been about one
player or one you know, one play in a game.
It'll always be a you know, a team effort in
all areas.

Speaker 13 (46:32):
And then the Ravens have used that sort of Mark
Andrews wildcat push push play before. I think they actually
just used it last week against the Vikings, a different
version of a different playoff of it. But how much
was that something you guys you know, prepared for kind
of thought could be part of the game plan for them,
And how much was them doing that version of it,
just you know, them running the right play at the

(46:52):
right time.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Yeah, I mean you got to tip your cap to them.
Obviously it was a well designed play. There are things
that we can do differently on that play, and they
had shown different things off of that, not exactly that play.
So uh, it's a you know, you hope that they
get they might get the first but you get him
down for you know, a gain or whatever it might be.

(47:13):
But well executed by then.

Speaker 11 (47:15):
And Kevin, you guys able to identify when Dylan suffered
the concussion.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
Yeah, I don't know that we know for sure when
it was, but I obviously the hit on the play
they kept the ball to the left side is likely
where it happened. Thank you.

Speaker 12 (47:30):
Yeah, Kevin, I wanted to go back to really like
the Blitzero cover zero looks at the Ravens for shown,
because you know, they dropped out of a lot of
those looks and they would bring like a dB especially
in the second half. What as you know, what as
an offense, can you guys do better to execute against
that because I know a lot of times it was
a lot of longer developing passes that were kind of

(47:51):
like crossing over into the zones. Like when you look
back to the film, do you think that maybe you could,
you know, throw a couple of screens, just get the
ball out quickly and get the ball in space.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
Yeah. Well, always look at things that we can do better.
Obviously we have to have a better protection just overall
on a bunch of a bunch of areas of that game.
But we'll look at everything.

Speaker 16 (48:14):
Kevin, just your time here in Cleveland, just getting to
know Bernie and everything, how much have you come to
kind of appreciate him trying to battle through his health
struggles and kind of coming out on the other side.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
Yeah, I mean, Bernie is my guy. I know that
this town has such a special relationship with Bernie from
his playing days and then the impact that he's had
on this community over the course of all these years.
You know, I didn't have that experience with Bernie prior
to coming here, but since I've been here, he has
just been such a supportive person of me, so kind

(48:54):
to my family. I think he sees my family every
game day and just is so good to them. He's
a special, special person. He's a special Cleveland Brown and
we are all rooting for him, and we are all
right there with him right now. Thank you guys.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
All right, great stuff from coach there from earlier today.
Add more.

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Speaker 1 (49:47):
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Speaker 2 (50:04):
The car trucker motorcycle acts that CAUSU injury called the
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(50:25):
the Titans on December seventh. It's March to Midfield, presented
by Sugardale and Meyer. Vote two day time. Now for
the great clips. It's gonna be a great clip of
the game call of the game. It's Devin Bush.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Let's have a.

Speaker 9 (50:38):
Listen, a hey, likely the tight end motions left to right,
Jackson from under center, play fake back to throw looking
over the middle. Pressure sacked again Miles Garrett, Buddy slam.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
He's got two.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Lucky number thirteen for Miles Garrett. And how about this?
They come out heavy. The Browns only have one corner
on the field. They're trying to take a shot down
the field Asay flowers. Miles Garrett says, so fast, right
through Roger Rosengarden for his second sack of the day.

Speaker 9 (51:04):
Remember they exchanged jerseys last year. Rosengarten said, hey, would
you sign my jersey? I but nobody, He said, you're somebody,
you're playing to the NFL. He treated him like a nobody.
That was just a little right hand.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Gosh that took Rosen Garden, who's a three hundred and
fifteen pounder to the ground like a child.

Speaker 9 (51:20):
Wow, a loss of eight back to the twenty. It's
gonna be second. In eighteen, Jackson shotgun with Mitchell to
his right back to throw. Here comes Delpit.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
They said it the screen fall over there, it's picked off.

Speaker 9 (51:30):
Devin Bush far sideline cuts inside the ten, he's.

Speaker 5 (51:34):
At the five.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
He's in.

Speaker 5 (51:37):
A pick six.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
Devon Bush.

Speaker 5 (51:45):
And the Browns take the leaeve.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Devin Bush right there said I'm gonna do it myself.
We're not gonna get the offense out there. He would
not be denied for Devin Bush. Did you believe it?
His first interception since his rookie season in two thousand
and nine, his first NFL touchdown, And if you want
to beat a team like the Baltimore Ravens, those are
the plays you need. Browns now plus two in the

(52:07):
turnover battle right off the hands of Mitchell again, he's
in there because of no Justice Hill. That's their pass
catching back and the Browns capitalize. Devin Bush way to go.
That's awesome. That was awesome. That is really I like
how you did that? Give me? That was very good.
Good breaking that up. There you go, good job, give
it there you go.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
No, we talked about this off the top like this
with this defense is doing what they did on Sunday
is stupefying to when was the last time that Baltimore
got that done to him? Ten tackles for loss, ten,
five sacks, five, two interceptions and a pick six.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Yeah, and ye had I mean three takeaway special teams
get one as well. But yeah, you're talking about a
defense five sacks, two takeaways, a touchdown, ten plays behind
the line of scrimmage and you lose.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Go.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
We had six sacks and two take ways in the
game against New England, Yeah and lost. I mean, these
are normally guarantees of victory and unfortunately for the Browns
it just has not been the case. And it goes
back to the offense has been the problem so far
this year.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, and it's I think it's Look, this is their job.
You're a pro, go handle your business, regardless of if
you're getting the result that you want. At the end,
you're being compensated richly to go play at a high
level and be a professional.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
And they've done that.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
They're doing that every single week and not getting the
results on the on the in the win loss column,
and it's it's been incredible to watch. And it's Miles,
it's Carson, it's it's so many guys.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
Devin Bush is having a great year. I don't know
that anybody saw that coming with Dev So I think
that if if if there was anybody that saw it coming,
for sure, I think it. I think it was two people,
Jason Tarbor and Devin Bush himself, because year his first
year in this system, and it was really his first
year being in a system like this at any point

(54:05):
in his career. Yeah, it was a former first round pick.
I remember when the Steelers traded up to take him
tenth overall and it was like, no, yeah, and he
has a great rookie year out there. That's the last
time he had had an interception was in that year.
In fact, that was his first interception. He had never
had a pick six. I said first touchdown was his
first pick six of his career. He had scored a
fumble recovery touchdown that rookie year. That year, he is

(54:26):
one hundred and nine tackles. He's got two picks, a
force fumble, four passes, defense, nine tackles for a loss
and you're like, Okay, this guy's going to be a star.
And then he gets hurt against us in twenty twenty
in game number five that year, tears his acl and
just never quite the same. But you saw signs last
year when he got pressed into duty, seventy six tackles.
He had eight tackles for lost, second highest number of

(54:46):
his career. He's on pace two better than that this
year already sixty six tackles, has the pick, has a
fumble recovery, five passes defense. He's really become force fumble.
He's become a true three down linebacker and he's been excellent.
And so I was thrilled. I knew he wanted to
come back, and I was thrilled the Browns made it happen.
And he's somebody that you know you're thinking about guys
in season extensions. Devin Bush is somebody that probably needs
an in season extension here from the Cleveland Browns. You

(55:08):
do not want him hitting free agency. He likes it here.
He's found a home here and hopefully that can continue.
But to think about a linebacker room that in your
nickel package was supposed to be j Oka and Jordan Hicks. Yeah,
and instead it's Devin Bush and Carson Schwestern and that
that room has been consistently and listen, the defensive line

(55:30):
would be the one. But in terms of expectation versus reality,
you know, you had to have kind of not no expectations,
but you should couldn't have been sure. We're talking about
a rookie we'd never seen again, started one year at UCLA.
He's playing like an All pro and Devin Bush is
playing great beside him. Absolutely, there's no doubt.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
This one's win of the Local Business Platform presented by
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Master Serving Cleveland offers home buyer inspection in the greater
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(56:08):
a proud partner of Your Cleveland Browns. We've got to
score to give you in the Joe Thomas half hour
of the program coming up next to listen to Cleveland
Browns Daily. We're presented by bally Bete, official sports betting partner.
Your Cleveland Browns on a fifty ESPN Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
presented by Bally Bet Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner
of your Cleveland Browns. Please bet responsibly.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Oh BEM, the provider of copiers and document services of
your Cleveland Browns, will tackle any size office called two
one six forty five two thousand US at Ohio Businessmachines
dot com. A little bit of breaking news in the
college football world. It appears from a Penn State head coach,
James Franklin is going to be the next head coach at.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Virginia Tech at college football. Nate's been on that and
on a couple of weeks here. Yeah, makes a lot
of sense. They're bringing in some boosters who are apparently
willing to spend big money to try to get that
program back. And they thought James Franklin.

Speaker 7 (57:13):
Was a knife two hundred and twenty nine million to
be exact. They've committed over the next four years.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Is that really? Is that in the report?

Speaker 8 (57:22):
Four athletics, Well, that make the position more attractive.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
So that's a ESPN story going to win. That's the
Virginia I'm sorry. The Texas Tech just did that. They
put fifty million into their football team and they're going
to be in the playoff and are quite good. He's
used to recruiting that area too. That's the same same
place as Penn State that you're recruiting to. It's an
outpost like Penn State too, very similar jobs. Penn State's

(57:45):
got way more history and tradition and all of that,
but they've got some nice stuff too, So I like it.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
I like it for him, Mike for the too. Yeah,
Mike and Marcus both. Yeah, yep. All right, we got
a Monday.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
Night or Monday Night or here, let's get right down
to it. A team we will see on sudden be
in Las Vegas, the Raiders hosting the Dallas Cowboys. Raiders
have lost three in a row. They're two and seven.
Cowboys have lost two in a row. They are three,
five and one.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Zagora, So we're both in a good spot here house money,
where you have winning weeks secured. Although it was it
got bleak in the middle of the day, did we
rallied pretty well? I just don't see a reason why
anybody would not be taking the Dallas Cowboys in this game,
So I am going to the Raiders. I think the

(58:32):
Cowboys win thirty twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
The you know, it's funny how much in college and
pro that hook?

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Oh, it's been right there, right quite good, turns out
very very good.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Just for the sake of being different, I'll go Cowboys
and just barely. It should be a fun game though.
I'm kind of looking forward to seeing it Cowboys twenty
four to twenty. But I think it's going to be
right on it, going to be right on it. I
want to remind you to join us at TAPS Sport
Bar inside MGM Northfield Park. That is tomorrow, We're live
from three to five. Stop out. Meet former Browns wide

(59:10):
receiver Reggie Langhorn. He will join us there for the
program on that side of things coming.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Up next to Joe Thomas. Half hour of the program.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You listened to Cleveland Browns Daily were presented by bally Bet,
official sportspinning partner in Cleveland Browns. Please bet responsibly on
eight fifty ESPN Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
presented by bally Bett Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner
of your Cleveland Browns, please bet responsibly.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Thomas half hour of the program here on Cleveland Browns Daily.
It goes into the record book twenty three to sixteen,
but it was far more than that. I mean, this
one kind of had everything off. There's so many ways
to start here, but I think one of the overarching
themes this season has been the two rookie quarterbacks. Dylan
unfortunately goes down with the concussion, and so you get

(01:00:05):
a half of Shadoor Sanders.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
What did you make of the debut?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
What did you make of what he did positively and
negatively in his half?

Speaker 14 (01:00:13):
Well, I think I'll start with the negative.

Speaker 6 (01:00:15):
I think he saw a lot of the same mistakes
that we saw in preseason, right, and some of the
same mistakes that he was making in.

Speaker 14 (01:00:21):
College, which was one of the big knocks on him. Right.

Speaker 6 (01:00:24):
He takes a lot of sacks, He's not exactly sure
where to go with the football quickly, and he always
has a tendency to drift back in the pocket, and
you saw that a bunch and it had been at times.
There was a couple of big sacks that he took
that were for a lot of lost yardage. He made
things a little bit tough on the offensive line of times,
with how deep he was drifting in the pocket, how

(01:00:44):
long he was hanging out of the football. I think
we could have done a little bit better job helping
him out sometimes, because once he got in the game,
the Ravens were just flitzing him relentlessly with double a
gap blitzes, with twisters, with different variations of the kind
of the same concept where they were trying to get
an extra man free because they figured that, hey, he's
not exactly sure where the ball is going, so as

(01:01:06):
long as we can get somebody free, we're gonna be
able to get him home and make a big play.

Speaker 14 (01:01:09):
Now, he made some nice throws.

Speaker 6 (01:01:11):
So I'll go to the positive, I thought, even though
he was in a situation where that's not how you
want your rookie quarterback to get his first playing time,
his first meaningful snaps of his NFL career, where he
doesn't have a chance during the week to be the
guy that the game plan is built around. He's not
the guy that got the first team reps during the week,

(01:01:31):
and so it's a difficult situation to be able to
jump into. But unfortunately, the life of a backup quarterback
says that sometimes you got to jump in when you
don't have those reps, when you don't have the game
plan that's built for you. But I thought he did
a nice job just not.

Speaker 14 (01:01:46):
Letting the moment be too big for him.

Speaker 6 (01:01:48):
Even though he was making a lot of the same
mistakes that he made in preseason that we saw and
then in college, you still saw a calmness, a coolness,
a leadership presence in him. And I think that's always
been one of his greatest traits is he rises.

Speaker 14 (01:02:02):
To the moment.

Speaker 6 (01:02:03):
He never lets things get too big, he never gets flustered,
and so I think you definitely have some things to
build on there. And I think from Browns fans perspective,
this season by and large was about do we have
a quarterback on our roster for this year and next year?

Speaker 14 (01:02:18):
And we'd seen a lot of Dylan Gabriel.

Speaker 6 (01:02:21):
I think for the most part, the returns were good,
but you saw that ceiling which caused him to be
a third round pick, and you kind of were thinking, well,
maybe he might be better suited long term as our
backup quarterback, and we're not exactly sure that he's going
to be the starter so let's get a chance to
look at Shudraah Sanders, and we got that opportunity.

Speaker 14 (01:02:39):
He hung in there.

Speaker 6 (01:02:40):
Tough stats were not great four of sixteen forty seven yards,
a pick in two sacks, But I think just the
resiliency that he showed and the leadership, and I think
not letting himself get flustered gives you a little bit
of hope that when he does get his next opportunity,
he's going to be better. He's going to continue to
make strides, and at some point we're going to be

(01:03:00):
able to have him in a system with the first
team reps and a game plan that is built specifically
for him, that he feels comfortable running those plays where
he's going to feel good seeing the defense, and then
he's gonna be able to.

Speaker 14 (01:03:15):
Allow that arm talent to show. And then we get
a real.

Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
Realistic opportunity to see, hey, is this guy going to
be a starting quarterback in the NFL for the Cleveland Browns?

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
All right, if you are, we can read stuff from
other quarterbacks around the league, other backups, but you are
on this program the authority uniquely positioned to answer the
following questions in your time in the NFL. How many
first team reps did a third or a fourth string
quarterback get during OTA's or training camp?

Speaker 10 (01:03:47):
Uh?

Speaker 14 (01:03:47):
OTAs in training camp?

Speaker 6 (01:03:50):
Eh So, let's say thirty is your average number of
team plays that you're going to get in a practice, right,
it's somewhere around there, you know, that's where all are
out there that discounts and excludes, like you're seven on
seven some of your like past scaley type stuff.

Speaker 14 (01:04:08):
Your backups might get one rep.

Speaker 6 (01:04:11):
Per period and usually a period six to eight plays,
so maybe three or four reps per practice maybe, and
that that usually will go up if you've got a
guy that's been your starter for ten years and doesn't
need all those reps, and you want to give the
backup guy a little bit more opportunity to work on
his play and his reading the defense and you know,

(01:04:33):
connections with the receivers.

Speaker 14 (01:04:35):
But really, more than anything.

Speaker 6 (01:04:36):
You're just giving your starter or break, you know, giving
that arm and giving that noodle a little time to
rest in the off season. But if it's a but
a third younger starter, you're probably not going to give
the backup hardly anything.

Speaker 14 (01:04:48):
In the third string, they're not getting any first team reps.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Right, so he was the fourth string when he was drafted.
That's right in essence. Today you have an injury to
Kenny Pickett, so that put him at third string. So
I think that people are acting like it's insane that
he got no first team reps in training camp. But
as the hoff would tell you, that is they would
not get that. And then in season people are ringing
a big gill. Oh, well, Dylan Gabriel got some first
team russ when Joe Flacco is here and half just
laid out, Well, yeah, Joe Flack has be only eighteen years,

(01:05:15):
but now you have a rookie getting ready, so it's
not a surprise. You played with I mean, more quarterbacks
probably than you can count. I'm sure though in your
your big brain you can itemize it. I would imagine
there are many times guys came in the huddle and
that was the first time that you had ever heard
their cadence or ever were on the field with that
particular person.

Speaker 6 (01:05:33):
As a matter of fact, I had a time when
somebody came into the huddle and I didn't know his name,
and we were on the road against Hetford in the
fourth quarter, and Josh Johnson trotted onto the field because
of an injury to Thad Lewis, and I had no
idea who this guy was.

Speaker 14 (01:05:48):
I knew he wasn't bad Lewis, but I didn't know
what his.

Speaker 21 (01:05:50):
Name was, so I I knew so by process of elimination,
I knew that I needed to introduce myself and figure
out who this guy's name was so I could black
form properly.

Speaker 14 (01:06:02):
But I mean, that's just how it goes in the NFL.

Speaker 6 (01:06:04):
You just get so few reps during a week of practice,
like if you include Wednesday practice, Thursday practice, Friday, which
is kind of quick, but you get a lot more reps.
And then Saturdays walkthrough, you're talking about maybe one hundred
plays and the starter is probably going to get all
of them. Maybe we'll be out on a couple. But
what you got to understand is when you're going through

(01:06:24):
a week of practice and you're going through the game plan,
it's not like you're just repping the same thing a
bunch of times. You're repping probably each play maybe once,
and you're getting a defensive look one time and you
got to nail it.

Speaker 14 (01:06:36):
And that's why you do a walk through in the morning,
so you get an.

Speaker 6 (01:06:38):
Opportunity to go through everything for one time in fifty
percent speed, and then when you're going full speed, you
got to nail it because that's the only rep you get,
and so your starters get those reps just the way
it is, like the starting oh line just takes every rep. Now,
maybe if your coach is feeling sorry for you and
it's super hot, he'll like take your first backup, and

(01:07:01):
he'll give everybody maybe one or two reps off during
the length of the practice. But for the most part
practice during the season, your starters take those those reps,
which is the way it is, and then the backups
they run.

Speaker 14 (01:07:13):
The scout team. You only have a certain number of guys.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, I think there's a massive disconnect by people who
cover and talk about this league and what actually happens
in practices, like a very massive disconnect. And then the
other one I think is even more troubling because there
are a lot of former players, people who know better,
who know better, who are who are saying stuff that

(01:07:37):
is predicated on clicks and videos going viral that it's
not honest in any way and they know better, like
they know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Better, just to give kind of a pseudo apples to
apples comparison, Yeah, would be. We drafted DTR in the
fifth round. Yeah, DTR was third string at best. After
we drafted them, you got no first team reps. Josh
Dobbs the backup. Yep, we end up trading Josh Dobbs
because he had had a nice preseason. He ends up

(01:08:05):
going I think, to Arizona, Arizona. I want to say,
yeah with Arizona with his yeahre out there. Yeah, Petsing
was out there, and then he was the backup. And
then if you remember against Baltimore, DeShawn ends up being
like a scratch on Sunday, he ends up DTR starts
the game. He had gotten no reps. But it was
not There was not an outrage, It was not a conspiracy,

(01:08:29):
was an outcry of fact. There was really no discussion
of it whatsoever because he was a fifth round rookie
who was a third stringer and then now it was
the backup into the season. But of course he wasn't
getting reps. He was. His reps were running the scout
team and getting mental reps during walkthroughs and and when
he had an opportunity to observe those things. So yes,
there is a media and I'm I'm glad you talked.

(01:08:50):
I mean, a lot of X quarterbacks or Lavsky was
on Get up this morning and try to like lay
out the reality of the situation, and they were having
none of it. Yeah, because it's not good. It's not
They're like no, no oh. But Dan, you were an
experienced backup and he tried to be like, well, I
wasn't what yeah, and they were just like no, no,
something and then something, it's a conspiracy. Something's wrong here.

(01:09:13):
It isn't. Now what do I want to see Schador
Sanders get a full week of practice with a game
plan tailored to him to give him an opportunity. Absolutely,
I would love to see that, because I think we
did see some positive things. To your point of willingness
to push the ball down the field, I made a
great play to get away from a free runner. That's
when Isaiah Bond right that he that's when he normally

(01:09:34):
he hits that throw and then all of a sudden
it's bedlam here. Yeah, for sure. Great throat to gauge
Larvadan better played by Chidobi, a woozier who just happened
to have his left hand right where it needed to
be and was able to try that ball out, and
I thought it was smart they put Gauge out there
on the last drive, somebody he had had success with
his the preseason to give him that opportunity. But we
did see some good things. Other things needed to be
cleaned up. I was on the broadcast off and I

(01:09:55):
may be again I've tried to glomb as much as
I can from you and a lot of people, a
lots me about football, But I thought when they were
just relentlessly blitzing him on one of those third downs,
we had to run a screen, I would just want
it just on one of them, because at some point
I think they blitzed them. It was something like six
third downs in a row, so at some point you

(01:10:17):
got to try to keep y. So we tried to
screen on first down and unfortunately missed the block. It
got blown up. But I thought maybe in that how
do you combat that when a team is just relentlessly
blitzing you? And the two things I thought of were
a screen or a draw, but unfortunately we're not able
to get that.

Speaker 6 (01:10:31):
Yeah, I think in hindsight they're looking back saying, ah, man,
I think on one of these third downs. After you realize, okay,
they're just gonna blitz them to death. Like they're not
gonna stop blitzing, you may want to try to set
up a screen. What they did a couple of times
is they tried to make a max protection where they turned.

Speaker 14 (01:10:47):
The entire line.

Speaker 6 (01:10:48):
They put tight end and a running back off the
backside edge because what they were thinking, to your point shoulder,
was doing a good job pushing the ball down the field.

Speaker 14 (01:10:56):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:10:56):
Something that we haven't seen and that everybody's been calling
for is like to throw the ball on the field. Yep,
you got the guy who's going to do it, and
he's trying to do it, and it's a perfect situation.
If they think they're getting home with the blitz, the
coverage is going to be tighter. They're gonna be jumping
the short routes thinking that the ball's coming out quick,
and you got an opportunity to make a big play
on the field.

Speaker 14 (01:11:14):
So good thought on that.

Speaker 6 (01:11:15):
It didn't work out perfectly in that situation, but you
can either try to max protect where you got seven
protectors in and if they add an eighth blitzer, you're
hoping that because you're turning the line and you're kind
of wadding everything up that one of the blitzers with
the loop and everything is going to run into somebody,
so they're gonna be slowed down, they might fall. You
might actually get a two for one where you got
two guys blocking three.

Speaker 14 (01:11:37):
You get lucky in that situation.

Speaker 6 (01:11:38):
Quite a bit. Happened a couple times. Once when we
were actually playing the Saints. Kyle Shannan was our coordinator.
We knew on third down it was Greg Williams with
the Saints. We knew, hey, third down, when it's a
gout Avid situation, what's this dude gonna do? All right,
he's not sitting back in coverage. He's sent in the house.

Speaker 14 (01:11:53):
Right, it's going to be a zero blitz.

Speaker 6 (01:11:55):
And so we had that in our back pocket to
be able to alert and change to a max protection
and then get a two man route. And it turns
out we actually won the game on that play because
we saw it. We double cadenced them, they gave it away,
we quickly alerted, we got the max protection. We got
a two for one by their left tackle and not
for I can't remember what his name is, but we
were able to pick it up. We were going down

(01:12:15):
the field with some longer routes and we converted, and
so I thought that was a good thought to try
to make it happen. Unfortunately, though, these guys haven't practiced
together long enough to be able to make it happen
and make it seamless.

Speaker 14 (01:12:27):
And I think maybe in.

Speaker 6 (01:12:28):
That situation, you got to go, Okay, what's the easy
button if they're blitzing us to death?

Speaker 14 (01:12:31):
Yeah, let's hit him with.

Speaker 6 (01:12:32):
The screen there on third down and one of these,
because it's clear that Shudor doesn't see the blitzes right,
He's not understanding the structure of the blitz. Like half
of an offensive lineman's life is sitting in a dark
room as they throw a poop on you. That's why
we're mushrooms. But watching the blitz cut ups. You watch
every structure of their blitzes the entire year, so you

(01:12:54):
can call out exactly the blitz that they're going to
give you based on the look. And sometimes it is
how far the safeties are off the hash, what the
stances of the defensive end and the backside when he's dropping.
Now you know, okay, this guy in the left hag
gap is coming. The guy in the right a gap,
he's dropping. He's going to be replaced by a looper.
You know what they're doing by the structure and just

(01:13:14):
from looking at that picture. But it takes hours and
hours and hours and years of experience to be able
to just look at it and go yeah, being the
hot they were just giving him variations of that, and
you can tell he didn't really feel comfortable seeing it
because he didn't know where those guys were coming from.
And then he's falling back into bad habit of Okay,
if I don't really know what's happening, I'm just going
to keep backing up, hoping somebody gets open that I'm

(01:13:34):
looking at.

Speaker 14 (01:13:35):
And I'm going to try to throw off my back foot.

Speaker 6 (01:13:36):
And he's a talented thrower, but he's not good enough
to be able to make that work. And then defensive
lines they figure it out and they go, Okay, instead
of rushing to a spot at seven yards, I'm going
to rush to a spot at twelve yards because that's
where he's going to be after he starts backing up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
If it is in fact, Shaudor this week and you
called the preseason games, you saw him at his best
and he was really good in Carolina. What would if
your Tommy? What do you build offensively this week? What's
the identity? How do you have success with this offense
this week if it issued or against the Raider?

Speaker 14 (01:14:08):
Yeah, well, I think the first thing you need to
be ready for is the blitz.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
Right.

Speaker 14 (01:14:11):
Obviously that was what worked last week.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
He's not proven that he understands how to move the
protections or get away from the guys that are hot,
that are not going to be able to be blocked,
and to throw to the right player. And so I
think having an answer for the blitz. Right, So you
want to have some screens like Zee was talking about.
You want to be able to build in some of
those max protections that you can always get to.

Speaker 14 (01:14:32):
Right. It's kind of like the easy button for a
young quarterback. You're like, all right, if you see a big.

Speaker 6 (01:14:37):
Blitz and it looks like a Max S blitz and
you're not exactly sure, Hey, you can always alert to
this protection and if they do Max blitz, you know
you're picked up, you're covered. You can go back to
your normal progression. If for some reason they drop out,
then we need to be able to get our running
back or our tight end into the flat as an emergency,
and you need to just know that, hey, you're not

(01:14:58):
going to have great protection all across board, or you
only got two dudes who are running a route that
is down the field and they're probably not going to
be open because they're going to have a lot of
coverage there where you normally would have some openings.

Speaker 14 (01:15:11):
So you may want to.

Speaker 6 (01:15:12):
Throw it away or try to dump it down to
your back, let him try to get something. But then
I think really what they want to try to feature
is a lot of the play action stuff to push
the ball down the field. You know, Shadur is a
guy who does a good job thrown on the move.
I think it does a really nice job throwing out
of the boot, out of the half, roll out of
those concepts that will fit in with some of our
rushing concepts and give us.

Speaker 14 (01:15:33):
An opportunity to push the ball on the field.

Speaker 6 (01:15:35):
That's something that Dylan we've been crying for all season
and we hadn't seen it. But maybe this is the
thing that can separate Shador and give our offense a
bit more of an advantage over what Dylan gives you,
so that it opens up some of those easier things
underneath and it opens up some of your running game.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
Yeah, I definitely think there were things that you could
build on that you saw there. I mean, you just
score you know, box score watch does not look great
for for sixteen. It's hard to get your head around.
But it's gonna be very important now the Raiders, just
I was kind of just quickly looking ahead. They're one
of the top cover three teams in the league. They
play that more than any three coverages combined other than that.

(01:16:14):
So you're gonna, you know, this is gonna be a
team's gona play a lot of Cover three. So you're
gonna put in a lot of cover three beaters for
him and try to give him right half like one reads.
We're gonna try to stress this player or this triangle
of players on this play and base. If they react
like this, the ball goes here. If they react like that,
the ball goes there. Right, is any of that one
of the ways you can try to simply give him

(01:16:34):
a half feed read half field read. Then say we're
gonna stress this group of defenders. Their reactions will tell
you where the ball.

Speaker 6 (01:16:40):
Yeah, you want to make it binary, right, So you're
gonna give him a pre snap and a post snap.
So he's gonna walk up to the line of scrimmage,
you're gonna tell him, all right, if it's split safety
and you got Jerry Judy over here, all right, let's
just cut the field in half. Boom, don't even look
over there in your mind. Of course, once you get
the snap, maybe the first thing he wants to do
is look over there, right, give the defense the impression
that he's starting over there, when in his mind he

(01:17:01):
knows I'm really only reading this half of the field,
and then give him one defender to put in conflict.

Speaker 14 (01:17:06):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:17:07):
But if it's split safety or a post safety, right,
so that's what is the first thing in his mind.
Splitter post Okay, Now it narrows it down to one
option or the other. And then once you get there, okay,
if it's split, you're reading this guy. If it's post,
you're reading that guy. And then he knows, okay, I'm
reading this defender. If he plays up, I'm going to
go over the top. If he plays deep, then I'm

(01:17:28):
going to go underneath. So you're trying to put that
guy in conflict and make it easy for him to
be able to get an opportunity to push the bound
ball on the field without having to know all the
different concepts and all the different coverages and the different
variations of the rotations that are happening everywhere else. You
just leave it to a computer system binary split safety
or post safety boom. If it's that, then this is

(01:17:49):
the guy I'm reading as he hire or low. This
is the guy I'm throwing too, So you just make
it easy so he can quickly react, and then just
tell him, hey, sometimes the best play is a throwaway.
If you thought that that was where the ball should go,
but and now all of a sudden that guy is
breaking on the ball that you didn't expect, just throw
it over the guy's head, not a bounce, and will
live to play another down. But the one thing you
can't do is take fourteen to fifteen yard sacks because

(01:18:12):
that is an absolute drive killer, and then you.

Speaker 14 (01:18:14):
Got no chance the rest of the drive.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Let's have a few minutes on the defense here, five sacks,
seven tackles for loss, two interceptions including a pick six off.
This has been This defense has played really at this
kind of standard all year. Do you how tough a
job is it for Kevin to make sure that there's
not finger pointing at this point, because this defensive performance

(01:18:40):
against the Ravens, who are in must win mode, it's
good enough to win. It's more than good enough to win. Yeah,
And so how do you make sure that you all
keep growing in the same direction when you have this
crazy imbalance that we've had, and we've had it really
all season between the offense and the defense.

Speaker 6 (01:18:57):
You know, I think they've done a pretty good job.
I think a lot of it is the personality of
the defense, and I think that comes from coach Jim Schwartz,
And they've done a good job internalizing the fact that, look,
our offense is just not very good. If we're going
to win a game this year, it's got to be us.
We got to do it with turnovers, we got to
do it with sacks. We got to hope, hopeful, hope

(01:19:18):
the special teams picks up there under the bargain and
gets us a big return or a fumble recovery like
we saw over the weekend. And you know what, I
think they've resigned themselves to the fact that the offenses
is not very good. So if there was going to
be a fracture between the offense and the defense. Honestly,
I think it would have already happened this season, So

(01:19:40):
I'm not worried about that happening moving forward because I
think the coaches have done a good job and I
think the guys in the defensive locker room have done
a good job just accepting the fate of Look, our
offense is not good. It's got to be us, and
we're not going to fingerpoint anybody but the people in
this room if it doesn't work out.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
What can you say about Miles Garrett ten sacks in
his last three games last year. This is a stat
that keeps boggling my mind. Last year he had a
career high twenty two tackles for a loss that led
the NFL. He has twenty two tackles for a loss
right now, right now in this season in ten games,

(01:20:18):
fifteen sacks, twenty two tackles for a loss. He leads
the NFL in both of those categories. And I gotta
tell you something. There have been you know, there are
criticisms of Miles over the years. You have a guy
who signed a big contract who is not getting back
from from an organizational standpoint in terms of the success

(01:20:38):
that he you know, thought that he had been convinced
was coming for him to continue to perform at this level.
I think speaks volumes about him and his leadership, and
it is this is, this is an unreal run. It's
like the guy we're talking to him, of course, but he,
of course Joe had I mean his his were zeros.

(01:20:59):
Though you're no, no sacks, no pressure is nothing, but
it's crazy. Just shut them out, but it is. It's crazy.
And I wonder, like ten sacks in a three game pard,
I'd imagine Derek Thomas probably when he had the seven,
but he had seven and one, he's les have three
in the other two consecutively. I wonder where that ranks
all the time. And I'd imagine there's got to be

(01:21:20):
a note on that someone I would.

Speaker 6 (01:21:21):
Love to know, because it's ridiculous to get like two
sacks in the game, much less three, much less four,
much less putting them together in a couple of games span.
Because typically when you're having more than a couple of
sacks in the game, something really, really unusual has happened.
It's not like you're just beating your dude like a drum.
Because we see Miles beat his dude like a drum
every week. But when the quarterbacks getting rid of the

(01:21:42):
football and they're adding extra protectors because they know where
the problems are, it's pretty hard to get four sacks.

Speaker 14 (01:21:48):
No matter how great you are, even if your Miles here.

Speaker 6 (01:21:51):
But I think for him, the thing that's exciting for
me to watch is just the effort that he plays with,
and a lot of sacks just come where you're just
playing hard, playing into the whistle, and the quarterback hangs
on to the football like we saw in that one
sprint right where Lamar he sprinted right there was nobody opened,
so coverage gets a lot of credit, and he thought, hey,
I could just referst field, But Miles just kept pushing,

(01:22:13):
and he kept rushing and kept giving that effort towards
the quarterback. It's where you see DJ Watt getting a
lot of sacks. Of course he beats his nan a
lot as well, but a lot of those sacks are just.

Speaker 14 (01:22:23):
Efforts just because you won't stop, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:22:25):
And I think when you combine what Miles is physically,
which is unlike any other human we've ever seen that
have walked the face of the earth, part dinosaur, and
you combine that with great effort, like get out of here.

Speaker 14 (01:22:36):
I don't want to see that, dude.

Speaker 6 (01:22:37):
And I'll say Ronnie Staley has blocked him as well
as about any left tackle that I've seen, and they
didn't give him as much help as a lot.

Speaker 14 (01:22:46):
Of teams do, and he still had an amazing game.

Speaker 6 (01:22:50):
Miles did just with those effort sacks, just the willingness
to just continue to go and play to the whistle
is awesome.

Speaker 14 (01:22:59):
And so it's so fun to watch him out there.

Speaker 3 (01:23:03):
All right, So I got the answer. Yeah, Tied for
the most in NFL history over three game span. Derreck
Thomas ninety seven ninety eight, Richard Dent sack Man Dent
Monsters of the Midway nineteen eighty four had ten in
a three game span as well. Miles is tied with
that with ten sacks over his last three games. By

(01:23:26):
the way, hof did you see and what would happen
in the mushroom room? When he gave a right hand
jab to Roger Rosengarden, who is a large man there,
right tackle, that's right, one hand, and he knocked him
on his butt like it was Thanos Boom and then
went right in and sacked Lamar Jackson. It's just a
one hand, right hand punch and it was just playing.

Speaker 6 (01:23:48):
No, that's quickly knowing that place coming up, obviously, because
you've probably had a sick feeling in your stomach since
the moment that that happened. Until a film session, you
have to get up real quick about three plays before.

Speaker 14 (01:24:01):
Coach, I'm sorry. I got into the bathroom and he
just sprin.

Speaker 6 (01:24:04):
Out of there, and you don't come back for like
a half hour, because I don't know if you can
recover after having living through the beatings are going to
give you for the humiliation that that human being had
put on top of your body and your soul. It
just took your soul and threw you backwards like a
cartoon man.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
It's a hall of fame level of professionalism, is what
it is. Because the season is not what he thought
he was signing up to, but it's but it's it
is a hall of fame level of professionalism. It is
a pride in your singular greatness and that every single
day that you show up on a Sunday to play,
you're at your best.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Haff.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
It has to make you so proud because I know
that you grabbed him early as your career was coming
to an end and his was just beginning, and you
could see the greatness in him. But you never know
how someone's going to respond to guidance or how they're
going to respond to any of it. And he's responded aces.
I mean, this is to get this out of him
is remarkable every single time out.

Speaker 14 (01:25:07):
It's so cool.

Speaker 6 (01:25:07):
Yeah, I mean, just watching him from afar as his
career has obviously taken off and reached heights that we
haven't really seen from a defender in the NFL in
my opinion.

Speaker 14 (01:25:18):
Ever.

Speaker 6 (01:25:19):
I know there's a lot of people that want to
fight me on social media about Reggie White, and I
loved Reggie White. I got to watch him up close
and personal when I was a kid in Wisconsin, and
he was amazing. But I just don't think even he
can compare to what Miles Garrett can do on the
football field with his speed and his strength and his
ability to play all across the board, with the effort

(01:25:42):
that he plays with week in and week out. I mean,
I just, I just I do have a lot of
pride watching just knowing as a as a friend of
mine and as a guy that came in as a rookie,
I got hurt, you know, seven games in or whatever,
and just kind of took the rest of the season
trying to download my brain into his and you know,

(01:26:02):
if one thing clicks, hopefully that pays off. And you know,
trying to give him perspective of how an offensive lineman
would see him and try to block him. Try as
the key word in that situation. But you know, the
cool thing was like he never came in with an ego.
He was not ever a diva. He was never a
player that was like, hey, I got this, don't worry

(01:26:23):
about it. I know, you know a lot of things,
but you're on the offensive side of the ball. Just
having having a willing worker, a willing listener, somebody that's
eager to learn is so much fun as another player.
And I know his coaches love coaching him right because
he wants to be the greatest of all time and
good is never good enough for him. And I think
that unwillingness to be satisfied is what continues to build

(01:26:48):
the next up level of performance and the elevation of
his career and his greatness, because yeah, he got four sacks,
but he wants five you know that's that can never.

Speaker 14 (01:27:00):
Be an I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
That's your trench report, brought to you by Big Fig
the mattress made for More crafted in Cleveland.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
Just like our Browns.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
We're gonna do some game balls just on defense, and
we can't give it to Miles. I have an idea
who's getting the other one because he might be in
All Pro two.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
We're wearing number forty nine. Unbelievable. He's a defensive rookie
of the year, eleven tackles in this one, gets his
second interception on the season, He's got sacks, he's he
is doing it all. Yeah, I think he is in
All Pro consideration, and I think he is probably. I
know there's a safety in man Worri who's playing well
in Seattle that people talk about as well, but I

(01:27:40):
can't imagine you think about you know, j Okay is
unable to go. Jordan Hicks is going to be your
Mike linebacker. He retires suddenly and catch everybody by surprise
to start training camp. And this guy who is a
one year starter in college YEP is playing at this level.
And this is a point I made. I was talking
about Jason Tarbor last week by the way, and he
is open to a weekly segment. He's told me personally,
so he's like, I'll do it, I'll do it.

Speaker 5 (01:28:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
Absolutely. You think about the offenses we've faced this year,
so this is ten games Baltimore twice, Miami, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota,
Pittsburgh with Arthur Smith, and that's I might be leaving
some out, but these are heavy motion, heavy multiple personnel groupings,

(01:28:25):
offenses that are designed with a lot of eye candy,
a lot of late movement, and quarterbacks not to mention,
that are incredibly experienced, whether it's Lamar, Joe Burrow week one,
you know, Jordan Love, Jared Goff, Aaron Rodgers. Offenses that
are designed to stress mike linebackers and to put them
at a disadvantage in that chess game. This is a guy

(01:28:45):
who started one year in college and yet here he
is doing what he is doing right now, I think
is simply and by the way, guy had a high
ankle sprain three weeks ago, didn't miss a game and
has had back to back double digit tackle games and
is making impactful plays with it. Be sack interceptions was
unreal when he filled and he stoned him in the
hall Stone in in the hole. Yeahahah st him. He

(01:29:08):
had one where he stoned Derrick Henry in the hole,
which I have not seen prior never, and I don't
mean that from a hyperbolic sample, but I just can't
remember him. I can't where he had a full ed
of steam and then just stopped. And there was another
one where he Dereck Henry had a head of steam
going through the hole and he wrapped him from the
side and got him down. Normally he runs right through
those terms. He's he is an incredible player.

Speaker 14 (01:29:28):
Yeah, he's fun to watch too, right, he's doing everything.

Speaker 5 (01:29:31):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:29:32):
Typically you get a Mike linebacker and you're going, all right,
he's gonna be a little slow, but he's gonna be
physical in the hole, right, So there's not gonna be
fullbacks or tight ends that are inserting that are to
run him over and create extra seams. Or you get
a guy where you're like, okay, he can run sideline
the sideline pretty good. He can cover really well, but
he's a bit of a liability in the run game
because we got to cover him up. We don't really
want our big guards getting up to him. But amazingly,

(01:29:55):
this guy does at all. Right, he's sidelined a sideline
with that speed. He's intelligent, being able to understand the
complexities of the defenses that they need to run. And
then the offense is how they're trying to attack our defense,
getting guys lined up. But then he's still physical in
the whole, right, He's still a physical presence. So I
don't know if i'd call him a throwback or if

(01:30:15):
he's the.

Speaker 14 (01:30:15):
Next generation of linebacker. But either way, I.

Speaker 6 (01:30:18):
Think he is definitely in consideration for being an All Pro,
definitely All rookie team. But I mean, people talk about
the linebacker position not having a lot of value anymore. Well,
I point to a guy like that, mister Carson. Sweessen's
your number forty nine. He brings a ton of value
to your defense. And obviously he's pretty cheap right now.

Speaker 14 (01:30:38):
As a rookie. But when you resign, be worth every penny.

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
Oh yeah, all right, great stuff, Huff.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
As always, we'll do it again next week on the
Joe Thomas half hour of the program. Thank you so
much for your time. Look forward to it again next week.
Set the setup. He has his unbelievable hunting like he's living.
He's got some sort of sheerling goodie like come on fire,
burning a nice hearty sip of a warm beverage.

Speaker 3 (01:31:02):
Yeah, there's a beautiful chandelier above him. He's got everything
every there. Oh yeah, look at that thing. Yeah wow,
wow folks. Alright, alright, guys, and then wow.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
And that was Cleveland Brown's Daily for this Monday edition.
Thanks for listening, good buddy, eight fifty ESPN Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
You've been listening to Cleveland Browns Daily, a production of
the Cleveland Browns and eight fifty ESPN Cleveland,

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Joe, Beau and Z talk Shedeur and Myles and this reaction Monday - Cleveland Browns Daily - 11.17.25

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Joe, Beau and Z talk Shedeur and Myles and this reaction Monday - Cleveland Browns Daily - 11.17.25