August 7, 2026 • 30 mins
Rob and Max are live at St Vincent’s talking camp and getting you ready for Saturday Night Lights
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is live coverage of the twenty twenty six Steelers
Training Camp or the Steelers Audio Network, presented by bud Light,
Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy, and brought to you
in part by your neighborhood, Ford Store Creator, Pittsburgh Community
Food Bank, First National Bank. Let's Get Started Member FDIC
(00:26):
West Shore Home Remodeling Reimagine by Leecom Digital, Donz Appliances
Visit Donzappliances dot Com guaranteed lowest prices, free next day delivery,
CGR Wholesale and Hoss's Steak and Seahouse.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hass Is his hospitality and welcome back in the locker
room from Saint Vincent College in the trop Max starts
heading to his automobile for the drive to Canton, the
football mecca, right Suretott Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Canton, Pittsburgh's the Pittstroke is the football town. But I
guess the Hall of Fame is the mecca.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's got to be the mecca. So Wes Euler filling in,
Thank you Wes for jumping on.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So I feel sorry for our listeners. They're about to
get four straight hours a Euler.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
That's way too much. Yuler, no no, I don't think
it's enough.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Even my wife would say that's way too much. Wes.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I don't think it's enough. Wes. So looking forward to
the drive coming up with Matt Williamson. So the Hall
of Fame, the inductions and Max is going up for
the part where they you know, the Roselle Award and
the different things that they that they hand out. But
you know, it got me thinking because I think about
this every year with Cooperstown. So for those that don't know,
(01:38):
that's my hometown. That's where I grew up on where
I went to high school, Cooperstown, New York. And of
course that's where the Baseball Hall of Fame is.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Is that, like, you graduated from Cooperstown High School. I
graduated from Coopertow High schol'sretty cool.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, So we played our football games on Double Day
Field and our baseball games on Double Day Field. They
we were the last class. They no longer play them there.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's pretty cool. Yeah, they said, well, once this Robkin
guy gets out of here, we can't do this.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
The field was like a parallelogram, so if you ran
around left end going away from the village of Cooperstown
and toward the toward the streets of Cooperstown, the not
the mean streets of Cooperstown, no mean streets up there.
You would angle away. So if you were fast, which
I wasn't, you could like run around left end and
(02:19):
just it just kind of angled away from the line
of scriptage so you could keep going. It didn't matter
to me. I wasn't fast. But the field was also
ninety seven and so if you ran around right end,
you just run out of bound.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You ran, you ran out of real estate.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And it was also ninety seven yards, And a couple
of times in my career, officials would once you crossed
over midfield, they would march it back three yards because
the field's only.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Ninety seven yards. Yeah, anyway, I like those quirky high
school Oh it's fun.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So I think about this a lot in terms of
the Hall of Fame, which is how long do you
have to be great to get into the Baseball Hall
of Fame? So I always bring up the example of
Sandy Kofax, Right, So, Sandy Kofax's greatest left handed picture
of all time. It's like it's part of his name,
you know, Sandy Kovak's greatest picture left handed picture of
(03:09):
all time? And I'm not going to argue that hit
an incredible five year span and then quit. I think
he was thirty when he had to quit, somewhere right
around there. But I always argue that what we he's
he's stuck in time. We're just mentioning the Beatles, right,
The Beatles were stuck in time.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So the Beatles their last album, they were still, you know,
somewhat groundbreaking on Abbey Road, which is the last album
they did. Let it Be was released afterwards, but abby
Road was the last album they did together. They had
this song Sweet in the Back and it was something
new and different, and you know, you could argue that
throughout the next four or five years they still would
have put out great albums. You know, maybe I'm amazed
(03:52):
by Paul McCartney imagined by John Lennon, all the songs
that George Harrison had built, all those So they would
have made great albums, but they no longer would have
been groundbreaking, right, people would have what's going on with
the Beatles. It would have just been great music. It
would have So they were when they quit, it was
like almost like the perfect time. That was all the
(04:12):
hit And you could say the same thing about Sandy
Kofax because here's what you never saw, and I'll turn
this back to football in a moment. What you never
saw from Sandy Kofax.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Was the decline.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Right, he goes twelve and seven, and then then he
bounces back the next year and goes fourteen and six,
and then he goes you know, three and twelve with
a five forty six R. Then he gets released and
he decides his career is not over, so he signs
with an American league team, you know or whatever. Right,
you never saw that he stopped at his peak, and
it always drove me crazy that that was a good
(04:44):
enough reason for Sandy Kofax to be in the Hall
of Fame. And I get his peak was better than say,
Tony Aliva. Tony Aliva comes to mind, Dave Parker comes
to mind. Richie Dick Allen who went in finally last year.
I think he and Parker both went him last year.
You know, these guys finally getting in who had these
peak years and then Parker at his peak years interrupted
(05:06):
by injury. You could say the same thing with Rick
Tocket and hockey right reaches an Apex becomes that guy
and then loses time to injury Tony and Leva to
me was the most glaring omission. Did he get to
two thousand hits? No? He played ten years, was a
Rookie of the Year, I think, an All Star like
nine of the ten years, won three batting titles. How
(05:28):
great do you have to be? So now, I bring
this back to Luke Keighley, like, to me, this was
a guy okay, So it's a small matter of discrepancy,
but it's a window into a larger topic. How can
this guy not have gotten in the Hall of Fame sooner?
I think he only played seven years?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
He played longer than seven, didn't he eight years for.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
The Panthers, eight years, seven time All Pro, All prop
He was a first team All Pro five times, won
the Defensive Player of the Year, one the defensive Rookie
of the Year, and then quit at age twenty eight. Like,
you can't really get any more dominant than that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
When Patrick Willis did a very similar thing.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
So how long do you have to be great for
to get into the Hall of Fame? And are you
better off being Are you better off being good for
fifteen years or great for eight years?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Lev Bell versus Frank Gore.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, that's good. That's a very good one off time.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Left Bell versus Lashawn McCoy. Lashawn McCoy never hit lev
Bell heights, but la Shaw McCoy was a very good
NFL running back for you know, close to a decade. Yeah,
Frank Gore is probably the better one there.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's a really good to me, it's it's and the
I guess the answer is there is no answer.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, here's the answer. If you're a five time first
team All Pro, if they thought that five years of
your career you were the best at what you did
in the league, I think you should be in for
every sport. I think you should be in the Hall
of Fame. If it's two or three, that might not
quite be enough. You need you need the other end
of that of that curve. But if you are first
team All Pro for five, six, seven years, to me,
(07:14):
that is that's a Hall of Fame career.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There is no clear definition of how long you have
to be good enough for Max brought up at the
point and since we're having Hall of Fame discussions and
he's heading off to Campton, you know, uh so you know,
obviously we're talking about Luke Keegley here but what about
these guys that make the All Decade team. If your
first team All decade, I think that should be an
(07:39):
automatic ticket to the Hall of Fame. I would agree.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You're talking like the NFL, like not your organization's All
decade team, right, the NFL All Decade?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Right? Yes, And maybe if you're on the second team,
you should be in as well. Probably, you know, I mean,
you're one of the best, you know what, forty five players.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Of that decade.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
That's pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
That is that is that absolutely is. I'm with you
on that, and there's you're right, there is no exact
science there, and those all decade teams sometimes they can
be a little difficult because what if you came into
the league in twenty and seventeen, right, you know, then
like then your career is kind.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Of twenty fifteen where you spend five exactly right, five
and exactly right. I'm just saying, if you're so, you're
not excluded if you're not on the All Decade team.
But if you are on the All Decade team, boy,
that's that's just got to carry a ton of weight.
I wonder.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
All right, so let's look at the uh, let's look
at the NFL's twenty ten All Decade Team.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Quarterbacks Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers neither are in the
Hall of Fame now, but they're both going to moonwalk
like Michael Jackson into Canton when their time comes. Running
Backs Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Hit me that again.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore. Adrian
Peterson might be the only one of those four to
get in. I think Frank Gore's got a shot. I
think Leshawn McCoy's in the hall are really good, but
I don't think he's going to get in. Adrian Peterson
will absolutely get in. He'll probably be a first ballot
guy next year. Wide receivers oh Antonio Brown, Larry Fitzgerald,
(09:15):
Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones. Behavioral aside for the one formulae
formerly of this parish, all four of those guys hall
of Famers. I don't know if a B will ever
get in because of the other stuff, but in terms
of what they did on the field, Fits and Calvin
are both in. Julio will go in. If Antonio Brown
was a model citizen, he would be going into Canton
very soon. Tight ends Gronk and Kelsey, Duh. Gronk's gonna
(09:39):
be a first ballot guy next year. Kelsey will be
about five years from now. They also have Darren Sprolls
as a flex. He's not going to Canton.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Tackles, Joe Thomas already in. Joe Staley really good shot,
a Tyron Smith really good shot. Jason Peters, really good shot.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I agree, yep Guards Marshall.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yonda, he's been a two time finalist, hasn't gotten in yet.
I bet you he will at some point. Zach Martin,
He's absolutely going to the Hall of Fame. Logan Mankins,
I don't know. Jarry Evans, he's been a three time
finalist to this point, might get in at some point.
Center Alex Mack and Marquise Pouncy. I think both of
those guys. I think Pouncy has a shot. I think
(10:20):
Mack has a shot. It's tough at center though, it's
real tough.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
It's real tough.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So if you look at it from that standpoint, I
think you and I would agree. The vast majority of
those guys will be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Oh S Green would of course is an example for
the Steelers, right, and they're sure, sure you should be
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Like other than those, other than those running backs besides
Adrian Peterson. I think of the vast majority of those
guys have a really good shot to get in. I
don't think, don't. I don't think Darren Sproles is going.
I don't think Marshawn Lynch is going. Frank Gore could,
but that's that's pretty telling. Defense. JJ Watt, without a doubt.
Two years, he's a first ballot guy. Julius Peppers, he's
(10:56):
already in. Cam Jordan still playing. I think one more year,
big year for Cam Jordan he might get in. And
Kalais Campbell defensive tackles. Aaron Donald no brainer, although he
might be resetting his five year o'clock here soon. Nadamakan sue,
I'm not sure. Man at his he's another one of those.
His height of his powers was unbelievable, but didn't have
(11:17):
the longevity. Fletcher Cox I think has a pretty good
shot to get in. Geno Atkins, I don't know. He
feels like a Hall of really good guy to me.
Linebackers Patrick Willis and Luke Keigley already in. Von Miller
going in first ballot, Khalil Mack will be in, Bobby
Wagner will be in, Chandler Jones, I don't think so.
Corners revis already in. Patrick Peterson, his goat formerly of
(11:39):
this parish. He'll go in. Richard Sherman I think will
absolutely be a Hall of Famer as well. Tyron Matthew.
That's gonna be close. Chris Harris Junior, that's gonna be close.
Safeties Earl Thomas I think gets in. Eric Weddle, I
don't know, Eric Berry, I don't know. So again, of those,
then there's you know, a position extra, so it's more
(12:01):
like twenty four guys instead of twenty two guys. I
bet you fifteen of those twenty four get in. Sixteen
of those twenty four. So not every single one, but that's.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
That's a pretty not every single one. Well, that's an
interesting Uh. That's a kick returner. Was Devin Hester he
is in. Kicker was justin Tucker. I think he'll go
in eventually. I don't think he's gonna be like a
right away guy. But I do think he'll like Adam
VINTERI I think eventually he'll get in. That's interesting. It's
very interesting there, Rob King.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
So I don't think it's it's than I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I it's it's not unanimous across the board, because again,
you know, Chandler Jones is not going to the Hall
of Fame, Darren Sprolls is not going to the Hall
of Fame, Marshawn Lynch. But I would say, well, I mean,
i'd say probably about seventy maybe seven out of those
ten guys that we named go.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The other thing is, too, is how guys are valued
at the time doesn't always transpire to later in their career.
You know what when when histories are written, when stories
are told, you know, some guys get elevated and some
guys going to decline. I mean when you think about
like so one of the great Pittsburgh writer, David McCullough,
(13:10):
you know, he wrote books about Truman and Adams, and
both those guys were regarded as Truman was regarded, I
think it's pretty much a flat out bad president. And
then McCullough writes a book about him and He's no
longer considered a bad president. He's considered one of our
better presidents, John Adams, you know, for you know, I
(13:31):
go back to baseball for whatever reason. You know, Stan
Musill and Ted Williams when they were contemporaries, who would
you rather have? Who's a better player? Well then they
get the All Century Team. Ted Williams is on it
and Stan Musis has to be added on it. Yes,
those seven batting titles.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Weren't enough, you know, you know a good example of
this king with all that power. Yeah, the Shawshank Redemption
universally revered as one of the great movies now Bombed
in the box office, bombed bombed in the box office.
Now you can't find list of best movies ever without
that being in the top five or the top ten. Yeah,
there's a couple of those, like Scarface bombed at the
box office. It's pretty widely regarded like classic movie. It
(14:10):
is you're you're right. It is funny how history changes.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
History changes stuff. It changes the way people are perceived.
And you know, what what they did has already been done.
It's already been accomplished. They aren't adding to it. It
is the history and the story that's adding or detracting
from their legacy.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think it goes I think you're right. I think
it can go the opposite way too. We quite often
focus on the the improved legacies after the fact, but
it can go the other way around to look at
somebody like uh, like Joe Paterno, who's whose legacy changed
at the very very end, right, you know, I think
there's probably less examples of that, but it certainly does
work both ways.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah, I think in I think it's I think football
is different than I think baseball is. The is the
pre eminent example of the sport in which, you know,
looking at former players through the lens of today alters
the way they are perceived, and to me a negative way.
Like I you know, for years, I thought Dave Parker
(15:10):
belonged to the Hall of Fame. Like I said, I
thought Tony leave It was the number one guy who
belonged to the Hall of Fame. But I thought Dave
Parker was it was long overdue that he get into
the Hall of Fame, much like I think I'd like
to see Rick talkin in the Hall of Fame in
the NHL. But you know, then people look, wow, he
didn't have a great on base percentage. You think Chuck
Tanner was going up there and telling them, hey, Dave
work a walk. Sure, no, he wasn't taying work's a walk.
(15:33):
Punish the baseball.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's like, if you look at it, if you look
at the amount of turnovers that Franco Harris and Terry
Bradshaw had, that's a great extent sense chills down your spine.
You're like, how are the Steelers winning games when Franco
was fumbling the ball, you know, twenty times a year.
But it was just it was a different game back.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah, I think it was. Isn't Bradshaw's exact same amount
of touchdowns as Intergy close?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know who is as Troy Aikman, I think has
the exact amount or like one more touchdown than he
threw interception, and he's a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It was a different era and some of the old
some of the guys looking back, I think you're Hall
of famers. I wouldn't know Bobby Lane stats off the
top of my head, but there are Hall of famers
who've who've thrown more interceptions and touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh yeah, I'm sure there are. There absolutely are let's
see Keir Kinger one hundred and sixty five twelve years
for Troy Aikman one hundred and sixty five touchdowns, oh,
one hundred and forty one interceptions. So it wasn't quite
quite as close as I thought, but still pretty pretty
spot on there. I mean, that's that's uh.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That doesn't get you a starting job.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That does not get you into the Hall of Fame,
or a starting job that it is.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
But again, well, by the way to twelve to ten
for Terry Bradshaw.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
To twelve to two ten.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
It was that last year in eighty three when he
threw two touchdowns and no interceptions.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Could put him back in.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It was two ten to ten, and they had that
last year a lot of downs. I remember the eighty
three Terry Bradshaw. You have don't remember that, but no,
it is interesting. And then you know, you can't judge
guys by the way the game was played back then.
You just can't do it. You know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's funny. Matt and I were having this conversation on
the drive yesterday of what when do we get to
a point? Because I told him I think we're getting
close to this. It started with I asked him. We
made a joke. I said, what do you consider when
we say in the modern era, what do you mean
as in the modern era? And then Matt was like, well,
you know, for a while, I would consider that the
Super Bowl era. But he's like, you bring up a
(17:25):
good point. He's like, now we're getting to the point
where I think we're another five ten years away as
sports fans, as sports analysts, where you're just gonna have
to make the twentieth century in the twenty first century
kind of two separate entities. How much these games have changed,
how much athletes have evolved, how much the leagues in
the training and everything that goes with it. In another
(17:47):
five ten years, I think, when we're talking all time
greatness in sports, you're gonna have to start drawing a
line in the sand of the twentieth century in the
twenty first century because the games are just so vastly different.
The leagues are so much bigger, right, I mean a
lot of times, a lot of these greats that we
talk about when they were playing in the NFL, there
was what twenty teams in the league or twenty two
teams in the league. A lot of these great hockey
(18:08):
players back in the day, they were doing it in
a twelve team league. Babe Ruth was doing it against
an all white Major League Baseball, no minorities. Like I
think we're starting to get it to a point here
where even the eighties and the nineties, you watch it
and it seems like a completely different time, completely different sport.
I will say this, Maybe that's just the thirty five
(18:29):
year old in me speaking.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
No, I think that there's I think it's a great discussion,
and you know, let's pick it up after the break. Showy,
Let's take a break now, because this we're gonna We're
gonna sink into this. This is fun. He's Wes Euler
filling in for Max Starks. I'm Rob King. You're in
the locker room on the Steeler's Audio Network, and welcome
back in the locker room with Wes Euler. I'm Rob King.
(18:52):
Max Stark's on his way to Canton, Ohio to take
part in the celebrations up there at the Hall of Fame.
Is More. He's going in, not football players, Max's agent's
father is going in as a producer. Nice produced for
Pat summer All and John madd NFL films The Greatest
(19:12):
the greatest. That's awesome broadcast team. Certainly an NFL history,
in my opinion, you know, groundbreaking. So we're talking about
when does the modern era of football begin? And you
know when you think about the Super Bowl era. So
I would make the argument that in hockey probably and
(19:32):
in baseball, I think players the great players from way
back when all of the great players pretty much would
have been great players in any era. So did Babe
Ruth face black players, no, Latin players, No? But he
had an extraordinary skill set he did. I mean, he
(19:52):
was a big man. And when you think about him
hitting the first ball, you know, it's an old decrepit.
Baby think the last home run he hit was the
first out of Forbes Field. So I mean in Forbes
Field at that time was big track twenty five years old,
you know, and here he is hitting him out, and
you know, Willie Stargel, for all his power, did it.
(20:14):
I think eight times, seven or eight times over the
course of his career. Baby Ruth played there like once
and did it. You know, So what would he have
done in a different area. You look at Ted Williams
and Stan Musual who came in before Jackie Robinson broke
the color barrier and what they're able to do and
still maintain that greatness throughout that era. I think the
great ones would have adapted, would have had those physical
(20:35):
skills to adapt.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I think it's I think especially in baseball, because baseball
has changed the least of all the major sports.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
I think it's less true in basketball in particular. That's
it's probably the least true in basketball, although I still think,
you know, again, where would you consider the modern era.
I still think a lot of those players from the sixties,
Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and like.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Bill, Bill Russell was the dominant center of his era.
He'd be a small forward if he played now.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
But he would have found a way. I think most
of those guys would have found a way to still
be great players.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
They would have also been I think an important part
of this conversation too, is always they would have benefited
from the modern medicine, modern training, modern analytics, exactly like
these athletes now do exactly, So I think that's important
in this as well.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Bill Russell played in the pivot, he played, he played
down low. Well in today's day, somebody would have looked
at him and said, you better learn how to guard
in the wing. And you know what would have happened.
He would have been able to guard in the wing right. Yes,
what he would have been able to do offensively, I
don't know, because he would have been asked to do
different things. But I mean, I think these guys would
have found a way football. It's it's tough when you
you know where to draw the line because you think
(21:53):
about so if you go back, when you think about
this Super Bowl era beginning with the Green Bay pack
Is winning the first two Super Bowls, you know Fuzzy Thurston.
I believe he's in the Hall of Fame as a
guard with that name, he should six one two fifty. Well,
if Fuzzy leads that vaunted Packer sweep around right end
(22:14):
and runs into TJ. Watt, who's his size, maybe a
little bit bigger, what's gonna happen to Fuzzy?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Sure, you know, so, Fuzzy's gonna end up on his backside.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
And even and that's okay, that's fifty years later. What
about if you just go fifteen years later or twelve
years later, he's running into Lawrence Taylor, I still think
he's having trouble having success. It's just the sheer size
of the guys. And I think some of the people
would argue back in the fifties, and I'm sure that
(22:44):
there are exceptions, and the fifties, those guys went both ways.
You can't carry You couldn't be six four, three hundred
and thirty pounds and play both ways, play naps a game,
no way, not a chanchance. No, you just wouldn't be fit. Now,
there's probably exceptions of guys that could, right, just like
I think there's exceptions of guys who would who would
(23:07):
play in this era and they'd gain weight and they
would still be effective because they were extraordinary athletes. But
I just think there are fewer and I think the
sheer size. You know, if you're a six to one guard, right, well,
now you have to change positions because guards aren't six
to one anymore. Correct, there's six four, there's six'. Five,
Correct they're just, massive larger human beings like.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You probably you'd probably be too small to play center
at six to.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
ONE i mean all, right for all the training you would.
Do but again we are extrapolating As Bill russell changing.
Positions but you, Know Jerry west wouldn't change. Positions you,
Know Oscar robertson wouldn't change. Positions he changed what he's
able to, do but he wouldn't change. POSITIONS i think
it's difficult in football because just the size of guys
(23:52):
his ser, faster. Stronger it's just.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And what's wild to me is how do we project
what does that look like thirty years from?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Now, yeah, bigger, faster stronger in his sport that's dominated by, bigger, faster, stronger,
absolutely which is Not it's true to some degree in.
Basketball it's probably true to a little lesser degree in
baseball and, hockey which MAKES i think those SPORTS i
THINK i have a hard time. Believing, gordi how wouldn't
still have found a way to be a great?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
PLAYER i, mean well, again if IF i think you're absolutely,
right because they would have adapted to the modern you, know.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
There's there's So, gordi how was fifty two in his last?
Year fifty one in the Fifty.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
YEAH i promise you. This if he played in the
twenty first, century he wouldn't be playing in THE nhl
into his.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Fifties but he scored fifteen? Goals, Sure, okay so what
would he have done at thirty, two you, know, right
so with the more modern because it was a because
remember by that, TIME i Believe mario And Wayne gretzky
were Certainly Wayne gretzky was already in the. LEAGUE i
don't know If. MARIO i don't Think mario was. ROUND
i think it was in that little in between. PERIOD
i would have to double. Check but you, know he's
(25:01):
so the era had, changed, Right Wayne gretzky starts a
new era of. Hockey but or Did bobby are starting?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Hockey? WELL i, MEAN i think both of those guys
did in a. Way but you, know like the Old
lemeux adage where he would joke that the only thing
he did to get ready for training camp was he
stopped Ordering french fries with his club sandwich at the golf.
Course nowadays that at if If Josh allen had that,
attitude Or Patrick mahomes had that, attitude Or connor McDavid
(25:28):
or Shohe O tawny Or Lebron, James they're they're bombing
out of the league in a couple of. Years like
that's just not going to cut it. Today that THAT'S
i think the biggest when you try to, see there's your.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
EXCEPTION i Think mary would only score one hundred and.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Fifty there's your there's your, uh there's there's WHERE i
feel like WHEN i was talking about where do you
draw that proverbial line in the sand of modern era
to kind of old? School for, ME i think it's
AND i don't know exactly when we'd have to take
the time and effort and research to pinpoint, it but
it's when that kind of, stuff it's When casey Hamp
and couldn't show up and spend a week getting into
(26:02):
shape at training, camp those kind of old by gone
that would never cut it. TODAY i don't care how
talented and how good you. Are you couldn't be what
was his, name the quarterback of The Kansas City, Chiefs
Dawson Len dawson smoking cigarettes at, Halftime LIKE i don't
care how great of an athlete you. Are in twenty twenty,
six that ain't flying for your Former. Steelers you're bombing
(26:25):
out of the. League you show up the training camp
and all you've been doing is golfing and smoking, cigarettes
and you're out of. Shape you're bombing out of the
league in the modern.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Ad, okay SO i guess the question, is how are
we are we defining the modern? Era as working? Out
we are we defining the modern era of who could
have played in the old times and still excelled in? Today,
see that's WHEN i think about different. ERAS i, think,
okay who could have still? Excelled AND i think it
becomes harder and. Harder but BECAUSE i think there are
(26:54):
more and, more there's more, emphasis there's more people playing,
sports there's more. People, again some people would say sometimes
this is to the Day triman of the athlete playing
a single sport and concentrating on that single. Sport, okay
so let's Give babe ruth at you, know, again he
was an extraordinarily extraordinary sized. Man he was six to
two hundred when he broke. In he wasn't two forty
(27:16):
until you, know they started shooting the, pictures and he's,
correct and, he's you, know pigeon toed running around the.
Bases even that's a big. Man that's a big man
in today's baseball. Game six to two, hundred rock solid. Muscle,
okay so now let's give him a let's give him
a weight. Regiment he's looking Like Mike. Trout, Okay so you,
know that's. All that's a guy nutrition and. All that's
(27:36):
a guy WHO i think makes. It there are probably,
guys AND i would have TO i don't know the
weight and size Of Big Daddy. Liscom you know you
put him through the. Paces is he now a three
hundred and fifteen pound defensive. TACKLE i don't know about
him in, particular But i'll bet there are guys that
if you gave, them they were they were such great
(27:57):
athletes that if you gave The Ali mattson to, use
another Guy Jim, brown if you gave them today's workout,
regiments oh they're gonna be great players. Today, Absolutely BUT
i think they're the.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Exceptions they're the exceptions because, like who Was Fuzzy, wuzzy
the six foot one. Guy could you imagine him lining
up across From Aaron donald at six to one? Whatever
he was no, chance no Chance Aaron donald's gonna eat his.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Lunch, now those guys, out those guys would also say,
quicker better. Endurance you, KNOW i TALKED i heard some
of the Seventies steelers guys talking about that quicker and
just about the line, play because that's where that's where
it's really. Glaring like you could make. Them, certainly make
the case of those skilled. Guys, Okay Terry brawnshaw had a,
rocket would they he would grow up in a different
(28:42):
era whereas you, know more dink and dunk, today and
you know he'd throw fewer interceptions and he'd be. Fine
he'd be. Great Lyn swan would be. Great John starrith
would be. Great Franco harris would be. Great there's different you,
know these guys would be able to. Adjust it's the
line play to, me and then some of the speed
on the. Outside you do wonder about the line the sheer. Side,
(29:03):
well you know, again some of those guys were conditioned
to move. Quicker if you were a, big bulky, guy
you couldn't and you couldn't, move you couldn't play For Vince,
lombardi you couldn't play For Chuck. Knowle Chuck nole was
looking for quicker and. Better and think about how the
adjustments of the game have occurred now, right everybody wants
(29:24):
swifter guys on defense for sub package. Football so now
that you're seeing lighter, guys, okay so what does a
team like The ravens? Do, okay, well you want to be,
lighter good good luck you know when we Hammered Dereck
henry at you thirty, times or when this cheers Hammered
Jerome bettis at you thirty times a game and you're.
Bumming now you're, like, Hey i'm supposed to be A
(29:47):
i'm a six one two and twenty five pounds inside
linebacker trying to chase down you, know swing backs out
of the backfield and maybe run with a slot. Receiver
NOW i Got jerome bettets in my face thirty times a.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Game that's The, hey that's. Life THE Afc. North you're
going to be In cincinnati one week against Against chase And,
higgins and you're going to be Hosting Derek henry And.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Lamar it's the most fascinating division in. Football for that,
reason you have to be so adjustable to be able
to go from one to the, other so. Adjustable it
really is totally. Different IT'S i mean, football.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
It's, uh you, know it's it's playing against a big
twelve or an acc spread attack one week and then
a big ten ground and pound the. Next it's it's
it's a vastly different. Style and you know what they,
Say kinger styles make.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Fights it. Does, wesley my friend thank. You thanks for
filling in For. Max i'm off my Friend max AND
i will be back in the locker room. Tomorrow, wes
you're carrying on with the drive and other things here
on The Steelers Audio. Network so. Uh Brian lamartine And
Justin miller back in our studio For West. Either For Max,
Starks I'm Rob. King we thank you for being with
(30:51):
us in the locker room here on The Steelers Audio.
Network
This is live coverage of the twenty twenty six Steelers
Training Camp or the Steelers Audio Network, presented by bud Light,
Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy, and brought to you
in part by your neighborhood, Ford Store Creator, Pittsburgh Community
Food Bank, First National Bank. Let's Get Started Member FDIC
(00:26):
West Shore Home Remodeling Reimagine by Leecom Digital, Donz Appliances
Visit Donzappliances dot Com guaranteed lowest prices, free next day delivery,
CGR Wholesale and Hoss's Steak and Seahouse.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hass Is his hospitality and welcome back in the locker
room from Saint Vincent College in the trop Max starts
heading to his automobile for the drive to Canton, the
football mecca, right Suretott Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Canton, Pittsburgh's the Pittstroke is the football town. But I
guess the Hall of Fame is the mecca.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's got to be the mecca. So Wes Euler filling in,
Thank you Wes for jumping on.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
So I feel sorry for our listeners. They're about to
get four straight hours a Euler.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
That's way too much. Yuler, no no, I don't think
it's enough.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Even my wife would say that's way too much. Wes.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I don't think it's enough. Wes. So looking forward to
the drive coming up with Matt Williamson. So the Hall
of Fame, the inductions and Max is going up for
the part where they you know, the Roselle Award and
the different things that they that they hand out. But
you know, it got me thinking because I think about
this every year with Cooperstown. So for those that don't know,
(01:38):
that's my hometown. That's where I grew up on where
I went to high school, Cooperstown, New York. And of
course that's where the Baseball Hall of Fame is.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Is that, like, you graduated from Cooperstown High School. I
graduated from Coopertow High schol'sretty cool.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah, So we played our football games on Double Day
Field and our baseball games on Double Day Field. They
we were the last class. They no longer play them there.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's pretty cool. Yeah, they said, well, once this Robkin
guy gets out of here, we can't do this.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
The field was like a parallelogram, so if you ran
around left end going away from the village of Cooperstown
and toward the toward the streets of Cooperstown, the not
the mean streets of Cooperstown, no mean streets up there.
You would angle away. So if you were fast, which
I wasn't, you could like run around left end and
(02:19):
just it just kind of angled away from the line
of scriptage so you could keep going. It didn't matter
to me. I wasn't fast. But the field was also
ninety seven and so if you ran around right end,
you just run out of bound.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
You ran, you ran out of real estate.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And it was also ninety seven yards, And a couple
of times in my career, officials would once you crossed
over midfield, they would march it back three yards because
the field's only.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Ninety seven yards. Yeah, anyway, I like those quirky high
school Oh it's fun.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So I think about this a lot in terms of
the Hall of Fame, which is how long do you
have to be great to get into the Baseball Hall
of Fame? So I always bring up the example of
Sandy Kofax, Right, So, Sandy Kofax's greatest left handed picture
of all time. It's like it's part of his name,
you know, Sandy Kovak's greatest picture left handed picture of
(03:09):
all time? And I'm not going to argue that hit
an incredible five year span and then quit. I think
he was thirty when he had to quit, somewhere right
around there. But I always argue that what we he's
he's stuck in time. We're just mentioning the Beatles, right,
The Beatles were stuck in time.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Right.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So the Beatles their last album, they were still, you know,
somewhat groundbreaking on Abbey Road, which is the last album
they did. Let it Be was released afterwards, but abby
Road was the last album they did together. They had
this song Sweet in the Back and it was something
new and different, and you know, you could argue that
throughout the next four or five years they still would
have put out great albums. You know, maybe I'm amazed
(03:52):
by Paul McCartney imagined by John Lennon, all the songs
that George Harrison had built, all those So they would
have made great albums, but they no longer would have
been groundbreaking, right, people would have what's going on with
the Beatles. It would have just been great music. It
would have So they were when they quit, it was
like almost like the perfect time. That was all the
(04:12):
hit And you could say the same thing about Sandy
Kofax because here's what you never saw, and I'll turn
this back to football in a moment. What you never
saw from Sandy Kofax.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Was the decline.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Right, he goes twelve and seven, and then then he
bounces back the next year and goes fourteen and six,
and then he goes you know, three and twelve with
a five forty six R. Then he gets released and
he decides his career is not over, so he signs
with an American league team, you know or whatever. Right,
you never saw that he stopped at his peak, and
it always drove me crazy that that was a good
(04:44):
enough reason for Sandy Kofax to be in the Hall
of Fame. And I get his peak was better than say,
Tony Aliva. Tony Aliva comes to mind, Dave Parker comes
to mind. Richie Dick Allen who went in finally last year.
I think he and Parker both went him last year.
You know, these guys finally getting in who had these
peak years and then Parker at his peak years interrupted
(05:06):
by injury. You could say the same thing with Rick
Tocket and hockey right reaches an Apex becomes that guy
and then loses time to injury Tony and Leva to
me was the most glaring omission. Did he get to
two thousand hits? No? He played ten years, was a
Rookie of the Year, I think, an All Star like
nine of the ten years, won three batting titles. How
(05:28):
great do you have to be? So now, I bring
this back to Luke Keighley, like, to me, this was
a guy okay, So it's a small matter of discrepancy,
but it's a window into a larger topic. How can
this guy not have gotten in the Hall of Fame sooner?
I think he only played seven years?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
He played longer than seven, didn't he eight years for.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
The Panthers, eight years, seven time All Pro, All prop
He was a first team All Pro five times, won
the Defensive Player of the Year, one the defensive Rookie
of the Year, and then quit at age twenty eight. Like,
you can't really get any more dominant than that.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
When Patrick Willis did a very similar thing.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
So how long do you have to be great for
to get into the Hall of Fame? And are you
better off being Are you better off being good for
fifteen years or great for eight years?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Lev Bell versus Frank Gore.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, that's good. That's a very good one off time.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Left Bell versus Lashawn McCoy. Lashawn McCoy never hit lev
Bell heights, but la Shaw McCoy was a very good
NFL running back for you know, close to a decade. Yeah,
Frank Gore is probably the better one there.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
It's a really good to me, it's it's and the
I guess the answer is there is no answer.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, here's the answer. If you're a five time first
team All Pro, if they thought that five years of
your career you were the best at what you did
in the league, I think you should be in for
every sport. I think you should be in the Hall
of Fame. If it's two or three, that might not
quite be enough. You need you need the other end
of that of that curve. But if you are first
team All Pro for five, six, seven years, to me,
(07:14):
that is that's a Hall of Fame career.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There is no clear definition of how long you have
to be good enough for Max brought up at the
point and since we're having Hall of Fame discussions and
he's heading off to Campton, you know, uh so you know,
obviously we're talking about Luke Keegley here but what about
these guys that make the All Decade team. If your
first team All decade, I think that should be an
(07:39):
automatic ticket to the Hall of Fame. I would agree.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
You're talking like the NFL, like not your organization's All
decade team, right, the NFL All Decade?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Right? Yes, And maybe if you're on the second team,
you should be in as well. Probably, you know, I mean,
you're one of the best, you know what, forty five players.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Of that decade.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
That's pretty incredible.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
That is that is that absolutely is. I'm with you
on that, and there's you're right, there is no exact
science there, and those all decade teams sometimes they can
be a little difficult because what if you came into
the league in twenty and seventeen, right, you know, then
like then your career is kind.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Of twenty fifteen where you spend five exactly right, five
and exactly right. I'm just saying, if you're so, you're
not excluded if you're not on the All Decade team.
But if you are on the All Decade team, boy,
that's that's just got to carry a ton of weight.
I wonder.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
All right, so let's look at the uh, let's look
at the NFL's twenty ten All Decade Team.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Quarterbacks Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers neither are in the
Hall of Fame now, but they're both going to moonwalk
like Michael Jackson into Canton when their time comes. Running
Backs Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Hit me that again.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Adrian Peterson, Lashawan McCoy, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore. Adrian
Peterson might be the only one of those four to
get in. I think Frank Gore's got a shot. I
think Leshawn McCoy's in the hall are really good, but
I don't think he's going to get in. Adrian Peterson
will absolutely get in. He'll probably be a first ballot
guy next year. Wide receivers oh Antonio Brown, Larry Fitzgerald,
(09:15):
Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones. Behavioral aside for the one formulae
formerly of this parish, all four of those guys hall
of Famers. I don't know if a B will ever
get in because of the other stuff, but in terms
of what they did on the field, Fits and Calvin
are both in. Julio will go in. If Antonio Brown
was a model citizen, he would be going into Canton
very soon. Tight ends Gronk and Kelsey, Duh. Gronk's gonna
(09:39):
be a first ballot guy next year. Kelsey will be
about five years from now. They also have Darren Sprolls
as a flex. He's not going to Canton.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Tackles, Joe Thomas already in. Joe Staley really good shot,
a Tyron Smith really good shot. Jason Peters, really good shot.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
I agree, yep Guards Marshall.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yonda, he's been a two time finalist, hasn't gotten in yet.
I bet you he will at some point. Zach Martin,
He's absolutely going to the Hall of Fame. Logan Mankins,
I don't know. Jarry Evans, he's been a three time
finalist to this point, might get in at some point.
Center Alex Mack and Marquise Pouncy. I think both of
those guys. I think Pouncy has a shot. I think
(10:20):
Mack has a shot. It's tough at center though, it's
real tough.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
It's real tough.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So if you look at it from that standpoint, I
think you and I would agree. The vast majority of
those guys will be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Oh S Green would of course is an example for
the Steelers, right, and they're sure, sure you should be
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Like other than those, other than those running backs besides
Adrian Peterson. I think of the vast majority of those
guys have a really good shot to get in. I
don't think, don't. I don't think Darren Sproles is going.
I don't think Marshawn Lynch is going. Frank Gore could,
but that's that's pretty telling. Defense. JJ Watt, without a doubt.
Two years, he's a first ballot guy. Julius Peppers, he's
(10:56):
already in. Cam Jordan still playing. I think one more year,
big year for Cam Jordan he might get in. And
Kalais Campbell defensive tackles. Aaron Donald no brainer, although he
might be resetting his five year o'clock here soon. Nadamakan sue,
I'm not sure. Man at his he's another one of those.
His height of his powers was unbelievable, but didn't have
(11:17):
the longevity. Fletcher Cox I think has a pretty good
shot to get in. Geno Atkins, I don't know. He
feels like a Hall of really good guy to me.
Linebackers Patrick Willis and Luke Keigley already in. Von Miller
going in first ballot, Khalil Mack will be in, Bobby
Wagner will be in, Chandler Jones, I don't think so.
Corners revis already in. Patrick Peterson, his goat formerly of
(11:39):
this parish. He'll go in. Richard Sherman I think will
absolutely be a Hall of Famer as well. Tyron Matthew.
That's gonna be close. Chris Harris Junior, that's gonna be close.
Safeties Earl Thomas I think gets in. Eric Weddle, I
don't know, Eric Berry, I don't know. So again, of those,
then there's you know, a position extra, so it's more
(12:01):
like twenty four guys instead of twenty two guys. I
bet you fifteen of those twenty four get in. Sixteen
of those twenty four. So not every single one, but that's.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
That's a pretty not every single one. Well, that's an
interesting Uh. That's a kick returner. Was Devin Hester he
is in. Kicker was justin Tucker. I think he'll go
in eventually. I don't think he's gonna be like a
right away guy. But I do think he'll like Adam
VINTERI I think eventually he'll get in. That's interesting. It's
very interesting there, Rob King.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
So I don't think it's it's than I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I it's it's not unanimous across the board, because again,
you know, Chandler Jones is not going to the Hall
of Fame, Darren Sprolls is not going to the Hall
of Fame, Marshawn Lynch. But I would say, well, I mean,
i'd say probably about seventy maybe seven out of those
ten guys that we named go.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The other thing is, too, is how guys are valued
at the time doesn't always transpire to later in their career.
You know what when when histories are written, when stories
are told, you know, some guys get elevated and some
guys going to decline. I mean when you think about
like so one of the great Pittsburgh writer, David McCullough,
(13:10):
you know, he wrote books about Truman and Adams, and
both those guys were regarded as Truman was regarded, I
think it's pretty much a flat out bad president. And
then McCullough writes a book about him and He's no
longer considered a bad president. He's considered one of our
better presidents, John Adams, you know, for you know, I
(13:31):
go back to baseball for whatever reason. You know, Stan
Musill and Ted Williams when they were contemporaries, who would
you rather have? Who's a better player? Well then they
get the All Century Team. Ted Williams is on it
and Stan Musis has to be added on it. Yes,
those seven batting titles.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Weren't enough, you know, you know a good example of
this king with all that power. Yeah, the Shawshank Redemption
universally revered as one of the great movies now Bombed
in the box office, bombed bombed in the box office.
Now you can't find list of best movies ever without
that being in the top five or the top ten. Yeah,
there's a couple of those, like Scarface bombed at the
box office. It's pretty widely regarded like classic movie. It
(14:10):
is you're you're right. It is funny how history changes.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
History changes stuff. It changes the way people are perceived.
And you know, what what they did has already been done.
It's already been accomplished. They aren't adding to it. It
is the history and the story that's adding or detracting
from their legacy.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
I think it goes I think you're right. I think
it can go the opposite way too. We quite often
focus on the the improved legacies after the fact, but
it can go the other way around to look at
somebody like uh, like Joe Paterno, who's whose legacy changed
at the very very end, right, you know, I think
there's probably less examples of that, but it certainly does
work both ways.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Yeah, I think in I think it's I think football
is different than I think baseball is. The is the
pre eminent example of the sport in which, you know,
looking at former players through the lens of today alters
the way they are perceived, and to me a negative way.
Like I you know, for years, I thought Dave Parker
(15:10):
belonged to the Hall of Fame. Like I said, I
thought Tony leave It was the number one guy who
belonged to the Hall of Fame. But I thought Dave
Parker was it was long overdue that he get into
the Hall of Fame, much like I think I'd like
to see Rick talkin in the Hall of Fame in
the NHL. But you know, then people look, wow, he
didn't have a great on base percentage. You think Chuck
Tanner was going up there and telling them, hey, Dave
work a walk. Sure, no, he wasn't taying work's a walk.
(15:33):
Punish the baseball.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
That's like, if you look at it, if you look
at the amount of turnovers that Franco Harris and Terry
Bradshaw had, that's a great extent sense chills down your spine.
You're like, how are the Steelers winning games when Franco
was fumbling the ball, you know, twenty times a year.
But it was just it was a different game back.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah, I think it was. Isn't Bradshaw's exact same amount
of touchdowns as Intergy close?
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know who is as Troy Aikman, I think has
the exact amount or like one more touchdown than he
threw interception, and he's a Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
It was a different era and some of the old
some of the guys looking back, I think you're Hall
of famers. I wouldn't know Bobby Lane stats off the
top of my head, but there are Hall of famers
who've who've thrown more interceptions and touchdowns.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Oh yeah, I'm sure there are. There absolutely are let's
see Keir Kinger one hundred and sixty five twelve years
for Troy Aikman one hundred and sixty five touchdowns, oh,
one hundred and forty one interceptions. So it wasn't quite
quite as close as I thought, but still pretty pretty
spot on there. I mean, that's that's uh.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
That doesn't get you a starting job.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That does not get you into the Hall of Fame,
or a starting job that it is.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
But again, well, by the way to twelve to ten
for Terry Bradshaw.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
To twelve to two ten.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
It was that last year in eighty three when he
threw two touchdowns and no interceptions.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Could put him back in.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
It was two ten to ten, and they had that
last year a lot of downs. I remember the eighty
three Terry Bradshaw. You have don't remember that, but no,
it is interesting. And then you know, you can't judge
guys by the way the game was played back then.
You just can't do it. You know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
It's funny. Matt and I were having this conversation on
the drive yesterday of what when do we get to
a point? Because I told him I think we're getting
close to this. It started with I asked him. We
made a joke. I said, what do you consider when
we say in the modern era, what do you mean
as in the modern era? And then Matt was like, well,
you know, for a while, I would consider that the
Super Bowl era. But he's like, you bring up a
(17:25):
good point. He's like, now we're getting to the point
where I think we're another five ten years away as
sports fans, as sports analysts, where you're just gonna have
to make the twentieth century in the twenty first century
kind of two separate entities. How much these games have changed,
how much athletes have evolved, how much the leagues in
the training and everything that goes with it. In another
(17:47):
five ten years, I think, when we're talking all time
greatness in sports, you're gonna have to start drawing a
line in the sand of the twentieth century in the
twenty first century because the games are just so vastly different.
The leagues are so much bigger, right, I mean a
lot of times, a lot of these greats that we
talk about when they were playing in the NFL, there
was what twenty teams in the league or twenty two
teams in the league. A lot of these great hockey
(18:08):
players back in the day, they were doing it in
a twelve team league. Babe Ruth was doing it against
an all white Major League Baseball, no minorities. Like I
think we're starting to get it to a point here
where even the eighties and the nineties, you watch it
and it seems like a completely different time, completely different sport.
I will say this, Maybe that's just the thirty five
(18:29):
year old in me speaking.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
No, I think that there's I think it's a great discussion,
and you know, let's pick it up after the break. Showy,
Let's take a break now, because this we're gonna We're
gonna sink into this. This is fun. He's Wes Euler
filling in for Max Starks. I'm Rob King. You're in
the locker room on the Steeler's Audio Network, and welcome
back in the locker room with Wes Euler. I'm Rob King.
(18:52):
Max Stark's on his way to Canton, Ohio to take
part in the celebrations up there at the Hall of Fame.
Is More. He's going in, not football players, Max's agent's
father is going in as a producer. Nice produced for
Pat summer All and John madd NFL films The Greatest
(19:12):
the greatest. That's awesome broadcast team. Certainly an NFL history,
in my opinion, you know, groundbreaking. So we're talking about
when does the modern era of football begin? And you
know when you think about the Super Bowl era. So
I would make the argument that in hockey probably and
(19:32):
in baseball, I think players the great players from way
back when all of the great players pretty much would
have been great players in any era. So did Babe
Ruth face black players, no, Latin players, No? But he
had an extraordinary skill set he did. I mean, he
(19:52):
was a big man. And when you think about him
hitting the first ball, you know, it's an old decrepit.
Baby think the last home run he hit was the
first out of Forbes Field. So I mean in Forbes
Field at that time was big track twenty five years old,
you know, and here he is hitting him out, and
you know, Willie Stargel, for all his power, did it.
(20:14):
I think eight times, seven or eight times over the
course of his career. Baby Ruth played there like once
and did it. You know, So what would he have
done in a different area. You look at Ted Williams
and Stan Musual who came in before Jackie Robinson broke
the color barrier and what they're able to do and
still maintain that greatness throughout that era. I think the
great ones would have adapted, would have had those physical
(20:35):
skills to adapt.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I think it's I think especially in baseball, because baseball
has changed the least of all the major sports.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
I think it's less true in basketball in particular. That's
it's probably the least true in basketball, although I still think,
you know, again, where would you consider the modern era.
I still think a lot of those players from the sixties,
Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, and like.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Bill, Bill Russell was the dominant center of his era.
He'd be a small forward if he played now.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
But he would have found a way. I think most
of those guys would have found a way to still
be great players.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
They would have also been I think an important part
of this conversation too, is always they would have benefited
from the modern medicine, modern training, modern analytics, exactly like
these athletes now do exactly, So I think that's important
in this as well.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Bill Russell played in the pivot, he played, he played
down low. Well in today's day, somebody would have looked
at him and said, you better learn how to guard
in the wing. And you know what would have happened.
He would have been able to guard in the wing right. Yes,
what he would have been able to do offensively, I
don't know, because he would have been asked to do
different things. But I mean, I think these guys would
have found a way football. It's it's tough when you
you know where to draw the line because you think
(21:53):
about so if you go back, when you think about
this Super Bowl era beginning with the Green Bay pack
Is winning the first two Super Bowls, you know Fuzzy Thurston.
I believe he's in the Hall of Fame as a
guard with that name, he should six one two fifty. Well,
if Fuzzy leads that vaunted Packer sweep around right end
(22:14):
and runs into TJ. Watt, who's his size, maybe a
little bit bigger, what's gonna happen to Fuzzy?
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Sure, you know, so, Fuzzy's gonna end up on his backside.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
And even and that's okay, that's fifty years later. What
about if you just go fifteen years later or twelve
years later, he's running into Lawrence Taylor, I still think
he's having trouble having success. It's just the sheer size
of the guys. And I think some of the people
would argue back in the fifties, and I'm sure that
(22:44):
there are exceptions, and the fifties, those guys went both ways.
You can't carry You couldn't be six four, three hundred
and thirty pounds and play both ways, play naps a game,
no way, not a chanchance. No, you just wouldn't be fit. Now,
there's probably exceptions of guys that could, right, just like
I think there's exceptions of guys who would who would
(23:07):
play in this era and they'd gain weight and they
would still be effective because they were extraordinary athletes. But
I just think there are fewer and I think the
sheer size. You know, if you're a six to one guard, right, well,
now you have to change positions because guards aren't six
to one anymore. Correct, there's six four, there's six'. Five,
Correct they're just, massive larger human beings like.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You probably you'd probably be too small to play center
at six to.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
ONE i mean all, right for all the training you would.
Do but again we are extrapolating As Bill russell changing.
Positions but you, Know Jerry west wouldn't change. Positions you,
Know Oscar robertson wouldn't change. Positions he changed what he's
able to, do but he wouldn't change. POSITIONS i think
it's difficult in football because just the size of guys
(23:52):
his ser, faster. Stronger it's just.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And what's wild to me is how do we project
what does that look like thirty years from?
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Now, yeah, bigger, faster stronger in his sport that's dominated by, bigger, faster, stronger,
absolutely which is Not it's true to some degree in.
Basketball it's probably true to a little lesser degree in
baseball and, hockey which MAKES i think those SPORTS i
THINK i have a hard time. Believing, gordi how wouldn't
still have found a way to be a great?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
PLAYER i, mean well, again if IF i think you're absolutely,
right because they would have adapted to the modern you, know.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
There's there's So, gordi how was fifty two in his last?
Year fifty one in the Fifty.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
YEAH i promise you. This if he played in the
twenty first, century he wouldn't be playing in THE nhl
into his.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Fifties but he scored fifteen? Goals, Sure, okay so what
would he have done at thirty, two you, know, right
so with the more modern because it was a because
remember by that, TIME i Believe mario And Wayne gretzky
were Certainly Wayne gretzky was already in the. LEAGUE i
don't know If. MARIO i don't Think mario was. ROUND
i think it was in that little in between. PERIOD
i would have to double. Check but you, know he's
(25:01):
so the era had, changed, Right Wayne gretzky starts a
new era of. Hockey but or Did bobby are starting?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Hockey? WELL i, MEAN i think both of those guys
did in a. Way but you, know like the Old
lemeux adage where he would joke that the only thing
he did to get ready for training camp was he
stopped Ordering french fries with his club sandwich at the golf.
Course nowadays that at if If Josh allen had that,
attitude Or Patrick mahomes had that, attitude Or connor McDavid
(25:28):
or Shohe O tawny Or Lebron, James they're they're bombing
out of the league in a couple of. Years like
that's just not going to cut it. Today that THAT'S
i think the biggest when you try to, see there's your.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
EXCEPTION i Think mary would only score one hundred and.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Fifty there's your there's your, uh there's there's WHERE i
feel like WHEN i was talking about where do you
draw that proverbial line in the sand of modern era
to kind of old? School for, ME i think it's
AND i don't know exactly when we'd have to take
the time and effort and research to pinpoint, it but
it's when that kind of, stuff it's When casey Hamp
and couldn't show up and spend a week getting into
(26:02):
shape at training, camp those kind of old by gone
that would never cut it. TODAY i don't care how
talented and how good you. Are you couldn't be what
was his, name the quarterback of The Kansas City, Chiefs
Dawson Len dawson smoking cigarettes at, Halftime LIKE i don't
care how great of an athlete you. Are in twenty twenty,
six that ain't flying for your Former. Steelers you're bombing
(26:25):
out of the. League you show up the training camp
and all you've been doing is golfing and smoking, cigarettes
and you're out of. Shape you're bombing out of the
league in the modern.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Ad, okay SO i guess the question, is how are
we are we defining the modern? Era as working? Out
we are we defining the modern era of who could
have played in the old times and still excelled in? Today,
see that's WHEN i think about different. ERAS i, think,
okay who could have still? Excelled AND i think it
becomes harder and. Harder but BECAUSE i think there are
(26:54):
more and, more there's more, emphasis there's more people playing,
sports there's more. People, again some people would say sometimes
this is to the Day triman of the athlete playing
a single sport and concentrating on that single. Sport, okay
so let's Give babe ruth at you, know, again he
was an extraordinarily extraordinary sized. Man he was six to
two hundred when he broke. In he wasn't two forty
(27:16):
until you, know they started shooting the, pictures and he's,
correct and, he's you, know pigeon toed running around the.
Bases even that's a big. Man that's a big man
in today's baseball. Game six to two, hundred rock solid. Muscle,
okay so now let's give him a let's give him
a weight. Regiment he's looking Like Mike. Trout, Okay so you,
know that's. All that's a guy nutrition and. All that's
(27:36):
a guy WHO i think makes. It there are probably,
guys AND i would have TO i don't know the
weight and size Of Big Daddy. Liscom you know you
put him through the. Paces is he now a three
hundred and fifteen pound defensive. TACKLE i don't know about
him in, particular But i'll bet there are guys that
if you gave, them they were they were such great
(27:57):
athletes that if you gave The Ali mattson to, use
another Guy Jim, brown if you gave them today's workout,
regiments oh they're gonna be great players. Today, Absolutely BUT
i think they're the.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Exceptions they're the exceptions because, like who Was Fuzzy, wuzzy
the six foot one. Guy could you imagine him lining
up across From Aaron donald at six to one? Whatever
he was no, chance no Chance Aaron donald's gonna eat his.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Lunch, now those guys, out those guys would also say,
quicker better. Endurance you, KNOW i TALKED i heard some
of the Seventies steelers guys talking about that quicker and
just about the line, play because that's where that's where
it's really. Glaring like you could make. Them, certainly make
the case of those skilled. Guys, Okay Terry brawnshaw had a,
rocket would they he would grow up in a different
(28:42):
era whereas you, know more dink and dunk, today and
you know he'd throw fewer interceptions and he'd be. Fine
he'd be. Great Lyn swan would be. Great John starrith
would be. Great Franco harris would be. Great there's different you,
know these guys would be able to. Adjust it's the
line play to, me and then some of the speed
on the. Outside you do wonder about the line the sheer. Side,
(29:03):
well you know, again some of those guys were conditioned
to move. Quicker if you were a, big bulky, guy
you couldn't and you couldn't, move you couldn't play For Vince,
lombardi you couldn't play For Chuck. Knowle Chuck nole was
looking for quicker and. Better and think about how the
adjustments of the game have occurred now, right everybody wants
(29:24):
swifter guys on defense for sub package. Football so now
that you're seeing lighter, guys, okay so what does a
team like The ravens? Do, okay, well you want to be,
lighter good good luck you know when we Hammered Dereck
henry at you thirty, times or when this cheers Hammered
Jerome bettis at you thirty times a game and you're.
Bumming now you're, like, Hey i'm supposed to be A
(29:47):
i'm a six one two and twenty five pounds inside
linebacker trying to chase down you, know swing backs out
of the backfield and maybe run with a slot. Receiver
NOW i Got jerome bettets in my face thirty times a.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Game that's The, hey that's. Life THE Afc. North you're
going to be In cincinnati one week against Against chase And,
higgins and you're going to be Hosting Derek henry And.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Lamar it's the most fascinating division in. Football for that,
reason you have to be so adjustable to be able
to go from one to the, other so. Adjustable it
really is totally. Different IT'S i mean, football.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
It's, uh you, know it's it's playing against a big
twelve or an acc spread attack one week and then
a big ten ground and pound the. Next it's it's
it's a vastly different. Style and you know what they,
Say kinger styles make.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Fights it. Does, wesley my friend thank. You thanks for
filling in For. Max i'm off my Friend max AND
i will be back in the locker room. Tomorrow, wes
you're carrying on with the drive and other things here
on The Steelers Audio. Network so. Uh Brian lamartine And
Justin miller back in our studio For West. Either For Max,
Starks I'm Rob. King we thank you for being with
(30:51):
us in the locker room here on The Steelers Audio.
Network
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com