August 8, 2026 • 44 mins
Max discusses his experience in Canton and he and Rob chat future Hall of Famers.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 3 (00:50):
Saint Vincent College, Unity Township, Westmoreland County on the hills
of the Laurel Highlands Mountains. Welcome to in the locker
room here on the steel Deler's Audio Network.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Glad he could join us here live from Pittsburgh Steelers'
training camp. Rob King will be subbing in. I'm subbing
in for Rob King, I should say. Rob will be
joining us here in just a few minutes working out
some technical stuff on our back end. But we're being
joined with his co host Max Stark's here in the
locker room and Mack you Max, you had an exciting
night with some Hall of Famers.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderul wonderful night. Yeah, left
here a you know, hour number two of the show
and started driving uh to Canton, Ohio. Obviously Hall of
Fame weekend. We saw the game two days ago. Last
night was the Gold Jacket dinner and ceremony, and tonight,
(01:45):
of course the Hall of Famers will get their bust
and they'll get their speeches in Canton from h Tom
Benson Stadium. But it was nice to go because my agent,
you know, those were listening yesterday his dad got the
Pete Roselle Award posthumously, so my agent spoke on his
dad's behalf. And it was cool because I've been to
(02:06):
the Gold Jacket ceremony twice, you know, once for Jerome
when he went in and.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Then post COVID the Double Class twenty twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So so Coach Cower, Alan Troy, Bill Nunn, Donnisha, all
of those guys went in in that superclass.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So that was a second. But it was funny because
I was sitting.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I normally sat in the stands like the in the
in the Canton civic centers where they hold it, but
this time, because I was there with my A, I
sat at a table on the on the floor level.
And that was really really cool to experience because they
had a record last night. One hundred and twenty guys
came back, So it was just awesome just to see
(02:48):
a the number of guys that showed up of the
three hundred and eighty seven, but more importantly all the
Steeler legends that were in a ten last night. So
it was just great. I mean, saw Lynn Swann, saw
Joe Green, Donnie Shell, and then of course like you
(03:09):
go to my Mel Blunt, then my contemporaries, you know, Alan,
Alan Troy wasn't there, DERMONDI Dawson, Coach Cower, and so
it was just really cool to just see all of
those individuals mixed in with a group of guys. I mean,
now I was telling you this off air, like I'm
looking at I'm like, man, I played.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Against a lot of these guys, Like I was in
the league the.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Same time as these guys, So what does that say
about me that I feel older?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Am I.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
You know, I'm blessed that that kind of this era
of guys is starting to go in. You know, I
was drafted with Larry in two thousand and four and
we had the same agent our.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Whole career is Gene Parker.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So it's like to see that and you know the
emotion behind it. Play, you know, play trust me to
much chagrin. Adam Vinteri has thwarted many of many of
campaigns against New England when I played, when when played
against him, and then of course when he went to
the Colts. So it's it was it was like really
cool and Roger Craig, I mean both of us were
(04:09):
talking about we caught the back half of his career
and just what he was as a player, and finally
getting in, uh was awesome. And then Drew too many
times with Drew but yes, Drew Brees goes in as
a fifth member. It's just it was just it was
just crazy and cool to see because a lot of
the guys you think of, like a Bobby Bell, Like
I didn't watch Bobby Bell play, you know, Willie Lanier
(04:32):
and and you know Ricky Jackson, Larry Zanka, right, I
didn't see these guys play and so against them, Yeah, exact, Yeah,
letlone play against him.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Yeh.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Jon Stiner Rou like, yeah, you remember those man Boy
Golden toe jon Stiner Roo. Yeah, did not see Jan
stener Roo play, you know, but I did see more
than Anderson.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
A little bit. I mean listened that single bar was
crazy back in the day for a k and that
was the old school luck buddy, Yeah it was. But
but yeah, it's just and you realize.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Just the history of this game, the vast history, but
like the moments these players invoked in your mind and
you see it's no question why they have a golden jacket, right,
and why they're immortalized in Canton, Ohio. I mean, these
were the best of the best of the best of
the best. You know, there was a lot of you know,
(05:23):
Rich Eisen was was hosting the show, and he was
just talking about was like there's another one, one of one's,
you know, and like it's the countless numbers. Like I'm like,
you know, when Emmitt Smith comes out, like the number
one rushing you know, running back of all time, and
I'm like, well he's a Gator, so love it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
He's from Pensacola, Florida boy that checks your box, Yeah,
checks my box. And I was a huge m Smith's
fan back in the day. Of course. Yeah, in the nineties.
Who wasn't an Emmitt Smith fan?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Just like in the eighties, who wasn't a Roger Craig fan.
So it's like it was Roger Craig's sweetness. I mean,
but Roger Craig was up there the high knees and
you know running.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I never liked the Cowboys, but I did like Emmett
oh yeah, and Mike Orbin that that whole team was hard.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I liked the players.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
It was tough to root for the logo because I mean,
you had to like Troy you know, you had you
had like Michael Irvin. You had you had to like
Mary Allen, Larry I mean, god, listen, listen the Hogs
up front.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Larry Allen and Nate Newton were my favorite two girls.
Nate Newton also Orlando boy went to Jones High School.
You know another one right.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There, shout out, shout out to Orlando.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
But yeah, moos Johnston, right, I mean, and then you
had Dion on there on those teams, Charles Hayley, I mean,
you had you had so many guys that she just liked,
but it was just tough to root for.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
The name of the team and the logo. So Jimmy
Johnson and the hair, right, the hair, I was I
was a little bit less Jimmy Johnson because he went
to Miami, That's right.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So yeah, so so yeah, So it was just it
was just but it was an awesome night. It was
a beautiful night. The speech my my agent, Dean Grossman
gave was fabulous talking about his dad, I mean, and
then they then they had like this little little vignette
they played, you know, for each of them, and it
was crazy to see John Madden and Pat Summraw giving
(07:14):
an interview about what they thought about Sandy Grosse, which
I thought was just phenomenal. I was like, man, they
went into like the archives and found something. So that
was it was just beautiful, beautiful night.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And I mean, those are two the best to talk
to when it comes to stuff like that during that
time period. Rob King, the host of this show in
the locker room now on the line. Hello, Rob, Welcome
into the locker room with your buddy Max Starks.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
I'm in my own locker room right now.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, I got I got my own I got
my own locker, all set up here, ready to go. Max.
I know you've been talking about this, but I just
hope you had a special great time last night.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I did, man, I I did, and.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And it was it was. It was a great time.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And I was kind of talking talking with Ed here,
you know, just seeing all of the amount of guys.
They had a record number return of gold jackets last night,
one hundred and twenty that showed up. So I was
telling him about the Steelers guys that were there, and
of course then I was saying, how, you know, this
feels weird because now I'm in the era of guys
(08:20):
going in, so I played against a lot of these guys.
I'm in the same age range as a lot of
these guys. So that was kind of surreal the number
of guys that were getting called in. And He's like, dude,
this dude has a has a gold I remember playing
against this guy and it felt like yesterday.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I mean, you know, Patrick Willis, Julius Peppers, Jared.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Allen, right, I mean played well, you know, loved Jonathan
Jonathan Ogden and Willie Rofe and Orlando Pace, like you know,
you're seeing all these guys and hey, actually I remember
for my rookie year playing against Jerry Rice. Right, this
crazy easy to say those type of things out loud.
(09:03):
You said, what he was with the Raiders. He was
with the Raiders in O four. And you know John.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Lynch, I played against John Lynch. John Lynch is a
GM Now. I used to go to John Lynch's Golf
Golf Classic in Rancho Cucamonga, you know, and down in
San Diego.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Like right, it's like, it's crazy to see all these
guys in and it was, but it's also beautiful because
it's a it's literally some of the greatest cross sections
of our sport history that was represented in that room,
and it was just a beautiful sight to see. Like
(09:40):
like I went to school with Thrman Thomas's kids, you know,
and I watched Thurman play Wow, you know, and Sap
SAPs from right up the way in Plymouth, Florida, which
is right outside of a Papka, which is right outside
of Orlando.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Like I I remember when.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Sap what was playing, and so it's just a really
cool and Richard Seymour took me on my official visit
at University of Georgia. You know what I'm saying, Like,
it's yeah, so it's like it's wild to see these
guys in this position. I mean, Jared Allen and I
used to roll around an mm A practice in the
(10:15):
off season, like when we were young pups, you know what.
And so I'm just I was really blessed and it
just gave me a lot of pride just to see
the guys going in and to see the guys.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Are already in there, just all surrounded.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, Joe Thomas was there, and I remember Joe,
you know, but you feel like Joe played for the
Browns for like thirty five years, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Like it was like every w he was the only
iron Man, him and Jim Brown. That was it.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
But but he has a farm and they supplied the
meat for the dinner. You know, they supplied the beef
for the Hall of Fame, for the Gold Jacket ceremony dinner.
So that was like crazy to think, you know, he
has a farm in Wisconsin with all his cattle and
was able to provide the meal. So it's just it
was just those type of moments, those type of occasions,
(11:04):
and it's just where football. You kind of take a
breath and look back at the grandeur of this game,
the history of this game, and the significance of this game.
And also, you know, it's the official kickoff of the
NFL football season when the Hall of Fame activities, not
only the game, but the activities around the Hall of
Fame come into purview because that's the official start of
(11:26):
preseason and that means football is now back and dominates
our lives for the next few months.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
It's wonderful. It is such a great kickoff. It's an
awesome place. You know, you can always you can find
us one since to swing by on the way there.
Always good. Have you been to those, Max?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Oh yeah, I've been to Swinsons, but I was more
I was more intrigued by the handles ice cream.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Uh that that that that.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Sustained me on my drive. So I'm really appreciated of
the of those. Yeah, because I had the dinner I
had had at the Hall of Fame beef from Joe Thomas,
So you know, I couldn't necessarily have a Slinsons burger,
you know after that, U that would ruin the short
rid that they provided.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Oh yeah, we see the chef or something.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Joe Thomas, No, he wasn't the chef, but he was
a he's a cattle rancher. Now he does Hall of
Fame Farms and they and they produce a certified Angus beef.
So yeah, his his farms was the one that supplied
the beef for the event.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
That is tremendous.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
That is so good.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Why would you go anywhere else? Right?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, exactly, a Hall of Fame dinner from a Hall
of Famer, you know, get the get the beef from
the Hall of Famer, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
So Max, yesterday we both agreed, probably without I mean
just sort of, I don't know, we agreed that.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
If you make the All Decade Team, you.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Probably belong in the Hall of Fame. I Actually, I
think we got a little stronger than that. I think
we said you belong in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And all the guys that got selected yesterday are all
numbers of All Decade teams.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Okay, So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do
two things to have a little Hall of Fame chat,
and then we'll turn our attention to the Steelers and
what's going on tonight in Latrobe. A fun night for fans,
fun night, I think for the team and the players.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
So two things.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
One, ESPN came out with a list of players from
each team who are shoeings for the Hall of Fame
and who are on the cusp of the Hall of
Fame maybe need some work to get into the Hall
of Fame. I want to go over that list with you,
and then I want to take your era. So you
you you know, you're one of those guys. You played
(13:40):
in the aughts and you played in the tens, so
that's you know, we I think we touched on that briefly.
Maybe it was Wess and because Wes and I dug
into the twenty ten All Decade Team ten to twenty,
that was I think Wes's probably Wes's heyday. I want
to go back to your heyday as a player. You
did play in the tens, but I'm gonna go into
(14:01):
that earlier decade now. Again, keep in mind, there are
guys that are just in that awkward place. If you
played from two thousand and five to twenty fifteen, if
you played from two thousand and six to twenty fifteen,
it's hard to make either all decade teams.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
So the question.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
And then what that also does is, first of all,
it removes you from the possibility perhaps of making an
All Decade team, unless you're just over the top brilliant.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
But if you're merely great, right.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Which is still good enough for the Hall of Fame,
you could be precluded from being on that team by
the same token that might get somebody onto the team
that maybe not wouldn't match up against one of those
sort of scraddling players. So we have a lot to
unpack here, Max. We're gonna go through the twenty ten
All Decade or two thousand to twenty ten All Decade team,
(14:51):
prime of your career.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
We're gonna go through.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
The Hall of Famers and non Hall of famers. We're
gonna kind of get your feeling on are there some
oversight here in the Hall of Fame? And we're all
still going to look at the Steelers guys who, according
to ESPN, are either in the Hall of Fame or
on the cusp of the Hall of Fame. And then
we'll turn our attention to the night practice scrimmage, that
(15:15):
sort of thing tonight in La Trobe. So that's what's
on the docket when we continue here, By the way,
thanks to Ed Truth for filling in for a few minutes.
That's much appreciated. Ed doing a great job, So thank
you Ed. Max Starks and I I'm Rob Kink. He's
Max Starks. We will be back in the locker room
right after this here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
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Speaker 4 (16:38):
All right, back inside the locker room and you know
Kinger you good, Yes, sir, I'm awesome, awesome, awesome, Yeah,
Now you were talking about this let's let's let's go
in in the exercise that you wanted to present for
this segment.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
I can't wait, okay, So let's start with the Wheelers, who,
according to ESPN, are in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Maybe have some work to do, that.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
Sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
So no surprise, Aaron Rodgers TJ. Watt as definitely guys
who are going to be in the Hall of Fame.
So it says Rogers requires no discussion. What Meanwhile, it
was solid as a rookie in twenty seventeen, then emerges
a star near two. He made eight straight Pro balls,
(17:31):
then a first team All Pro four times, one Defensive
Player of the Year in twenty twenty one. Regular season
resume obviously hasn't won a playoff game, yet regular season
resume is sufficiently substantial to ensure that he will join
JJ Watt and becoming the second set of brothers in
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
No argument there, correct.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yep, correct.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Okay, So those guys are shoeings. Now it gets a
little more interesting to me because they have Cam Hayward
and Jalen Ramsey as on the CUSP. So he says, hey,
I covered Ramsey. I had covered Hayward's case. Last week,
Ramsey ad eight time Pro bowler, three time First Team
(18:13):
All Pro who was one of the best players in
a Super Bowl winning defense in Los Angeles. So the
difference between his resume and Watts really is the defensive
player of the year and TJ has one more First
Team All Pro selection, So it says if Ramsey can
(18:33):
manage another first Team All Pro appearance or push his
career deep into his thirties, he has a chance.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
So I think this.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Is really interesting because I think both guys have very,
very very good credentials to get themselves into the Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I do too, And I think the other thing that they,
you know, they kind of discount, which is weighed heavily,
is he has a Super Bowl ring as well.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
For Jalen rings, right, So I think that.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Kind of washes out the extra All Pro nod because
he has that Super Bowl ring, and that is one
of those X factor stats that you were considered one
of the top two to three defenders.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
On a team that had a very dominant.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Defensive performance in the Super Bowl, you know, And so
I think so for Jalen Ramsey, I think that kind
of pushes him a little bit ahead of the CUSP
category from that respect. So yeah, I think if Jalen
just hasn't pretty much finished with a solid year, whether
it's this year and next year or however much longer,
but you just have solid years and you're still a
(19:42):
starter capable.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Guy, I believe he's more than a CUSP guy.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Do I think he's first ballot Absolutely not. And I
think you know when you make the reference to Aaron
Rodgers and TJ yes, those are the first ballot nods.
But I think Jalen Ramsey like like we just watched
with a Luke Keakley that just went in yesterday, right,
he just got his gold jacket. You know, seven of
his eight seasons he had one hundred tackles, and yes
he was a pro bowler for seven of those years
and Rookie of the Year. But you know, there is
(20:10):
you know, there doesn't necessarily have to be a long
career to justify Jalen Ramsey. He's got eight Pro Bowls
in his career, he's got three All Pros, he has
the Super Bowl Championship. He's considered, he was considered at
one time, you know a certain stretch of about three
year stretch where he was one of the best corners
in the league. So and a guy that could probably
play and that showed versatility and played multiple positions within
(20:31):
the defensive structure. So you know, I look at that
and I'm like that, that's a tough that's a tough Cusp.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
If you're talking.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
About Cusp, I think he's one that gets in after
you know, two maybe three tries.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
You know. So I think it's gonna be very interesting
if Cam has one or two more type years like
he had a year ago, I think he could make
in all deck team. So when you talk about all
decade teams and the importance of all decade teams, we're
kind of circling back to this. So I look at
(21:08):
a guy like, for example, Geno Atkins. So Geno Atkins
came into the NFL in twenty ten and obviously was
a tremendous player, no question about Gino. He came in
a year before Cam Heyward. Now again, here's your other question.
Does the decade start with a zero and end with
(21:29):
a nine or start with a one and end with
a zero? And honestly, it sounds silly, but that's important
when it comes to how many All pros or something
does a player have. So Geno Atkins, great player again,
great player, not in the Hall of Fame, but a
great player.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Eight not in the Hall of Fame yet.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Eight time Pro Bowler okay, two time first team All Pro,
and one time second team All Pro.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So that's his resume. Here's the difference between he and
Cam Hayward. Is that Cam Hayward, you know, hit his
prime in two thousand and seventeen, right, and you know
he had some very very good seasons in which he
was being listed as a defensive end and not as
(22:19):
a defensive tackle. And you know, again there's sort of
a silly label, right that says, Okay, well, we're gonna
compare him to other defensive ends. Well, guess what those
other defensive ends are playing four to three their rush
ends they're getting they're piling up fourteen fifteen sacks and
(22:40):
making Pro Bowl teams. So that didn't happen with Cam
until he had twelve sacks, which is amazing from where
he's playing defensively, you know, an inside rusher, I mean,
that's an incredible thing. So he didn't start making Pro
Ball teams until two thousand seventeen, in which he made
(23:02):
the Pro Bowl and was an All Pro one. So
Gino Atkins was an All Pro one twice and made
the All Decades Team. Cam Hayward didn't make the All
Decades team from twenty too, from twenty ten to twenty nineteen,
but he's already racked up four Pro Bowls in this decade,
(23:23):
four Pro Bowls. He's a two time All Pro One
in this decade, a four time All Pro one altogether.
But his greatness, his peak straddled twenty twenty. So he's
one of those guys exactly like we're talking about with
the All Decades teams. Now, some of it's when they
come into the league, but for Cam it was the
(23:44):
recognition coming later in his career. So all this damage
that he's done, you know, the different Pro Bowl appearances
for him, and he's one off against seven Pro Bowls,
four first team All Pros, two second team All Pros.
Those have all happened since twenty seventeen. If the decade
started in twenty seventeen and ended in twenty twenty six,
(24:07):
he would be, no doubt on the All Decade Team,
no question, he'd be on the All Decade Team. As
in is he didn't make the last one, and I'm
not sure if he's gonna make this one because of
his career straddling, his greatness on the peak of his
career straddling at twenty twenty mark.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And you also have to throw in Walter Payton Man
of the Year. That's another award accolade that gets weighed
into that that happened in the twenty twenties, right, So
you know, it's it's one of those It's tough because
like you go from that and you say all decades,
team is a shoe in you know, in a lot
of cases, but you're absolutely right, Like the dominance that
(24:48):
happens is you.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Fall in that gap area.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
But I think for Cam it's not a matter of
if it will be a win thing for him, but
I think he will have a lot lesser weight than
a lot of guys just because, like you said, there's
a recency element to it, and like you said, he
did it in two different decades and that that comes
(25:12):
down to, you know, for him, who else is going
to be on that list at the time. You know,
is it going to be someone who you know, who's
going to have a stronger resume when Cam hangs it
up and then hits the five year mark, right, you know,
are there unanimous first ballot guys that are going to
come off the board the same time as him?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And so I think that's really what it is.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
It's a shell game like Alan Fanica, Right, Alan Fanica
had the same thing where he waited and waited even
though the credentials were undeniable. But Allen was one of
those guys came in in ninety eight when he was
drafted immediate impact, you know, all rookie team and then,
like you said, started making Pro Bowls consistently and then
slipped into the two thousands and then still had a
(25:56):
good start to his career in the two thousands, and
I think that's kind of where we land in this process.
But you know, eventually it did happen, right, It did
finally come into fruition because he was a guy who
was a first team All Decades team in the two thousands, right,
(26:16):
And so you know that's one of those where you
can kind of dominate a majority and the front end,
which I think that's what Cam has.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
On his side.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
He dominated the beginning of the twenty twenties and has
been a you know, a constant fixture through over half
of it. We're down in the twenty twenty six, twenty
twenty seven season, so we are, you know, three corps,
you know, two thirds of the way almost almost three
cords of the way through the twenty twenty decades. And
he's still a significant player and still a face on
(26:45):
this franchise.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It is baffling to me that Alan Fannik had to
wait that long.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I can't for the life of meat.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
I mean, I don't understand how you can have, you know,
really a much better resume than Allen had. You know
what I mean. I mean, you know, here's a guy
who who won a Super Bowl. He was a nine
time Pro Bowl. He was in eight six, six time
first team All Pro, a second time, a two times
second team All Pro. I mean, just a stretch of
(27:15):
dominance in which he was the top one or two
guards in the NFL for a decade. I don't know
why that makes you wait and I understand and why.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Went in before him?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
So that that's my biggest gripe is that Hutchinson went
in before him. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't you know, stealer bias, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I'm like, he was better than Steve Hudginson.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Now, granted they're both in now, so it's like, are
we really arguing which marbles in front of the other.
But at the time, Steve Hudginson was in and Alan
Fanica was not in, and it was just it was
just mind baffling how this decision making process came to be.
But but yeah, but once again he's in and and
(28:01):
he made it. But you're right, it was just it
was way too long. I mean, he should have been
first or second ballot easily.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Yes, Well, those two were contemporaries, and they were the
two best guards in the game, right they were contemporaries,
And those are your two best guys, right, one playing
in the NFC for a large part of his career.
I always say to him as Minnesota. I know he
played with Seattle and he was.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Transition tag contract. I'll never forget that, Steve.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
Yeah, how about that?
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah he was you know, so AFC NFC, the two
best guys, no doubt why one gets in and the other.
I mean, okay, okay, so one more first team All
Pro for Hutchinson, But one more Pro Bowl for Allen,
so a little bit longer prime. I just again, I
don't know how they make these decisions. I do get that,
(28:51):
you know, it feels like you can be and I
know it's it underscores the important to think about this
as you're not comparing apples to apples. You truly are
never are in any sport. You know, you guy's a
great defensive shortstop. Maybe he's not putting up the numbers
of a right fielder, but that right fielder maybe's kind
of a statue out there, you know, so he's not
(29:12):
adding anything other than the that. And so you're trying
to figure out all these different things, and we understand
where the game is gone. You know, quarterbacks, receivers, edge rushers,
running backs, you know, guards and centers. You know, offensive tackles, guards, centers,
defensive tackles. These guys, it's it's it's a weight. It's
(29:33):
harder for those guys to get in the Hall of Fame,
not because they're not great players, but because of the
nature of the position that they play.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
No, absolutely, I'm in agreeance with you that it is
a tougher metric and like, oh well, there's so many
but I mean, but when you think about it, you
look at it, if you make the All Decade team,
think about this, all four guards are in the All
Decade team and in the All Decade Team are in
the Hall of Fame from the two thousands because Larry
(30:01):
Allen and Will Shields were the other two guards.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
And ahead to look at it, you're not sneaking ahead,
are you for our next topic?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
No? No, I'm just talking about the two thousands. It's
talking about the two thousands.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Okay, that's the case.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, because that's that's the case that we make is
how tough it is to get in. But when you
look back on that list, it's like we all four
of them made it in.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
There's only two per team. It all four of them
made it in. So what what's what's like that criteria
for being in those moments? So yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
I mean, it's it's one of those that it's still
a head scratcher.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
So this is just to finish off the ESPN thinking
we're running a little bit long and we might have
to go a little bit long on the two thousands team,
but work to do, okay. Troytanu, Zach Fraser, DK Metcalf
Joey Porter Jr. Well, look, I'm just fullish on Fraser
and Porter, but work to do, my goodness, I mean,
(30:58):
these guys, you know, you have to start making teams
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, and you're like your second and third years in
the league.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Yeah. So he says, I'm excited about about time to
win praise with the young offensive lineman in Pittsburgh. Better
receiver metcalst is on the cuff. Metcalf is on the
cusp of falling out of Hall of Fame consideration, entirely
given that he's almost twenty nine with only two Pro
Bowls to his name. Metcalf's thirteen hundred and three receiving
yard season in twenty twenty also looks like a bit
(31:26):
of an outlier, since he hasn't come within one hundred
and fifty yards of that total and any even the
other six campaigns. The haul of very good might be beckoning
for the six or four inch wide out, but let's
see what he does in twenty twenty six. I agree,
Let's see what he does in twenty twenty six. And
as for the other guys, let's see what take two
over the next half a dozen seasons.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
You know, I'm bullish on all those guys, but I
think they're just trying to round out the article. When
you're talking about young guys who are still on their
first contract and still waiting to get into that first
Pro Bowl.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, this is this is this is a very
uh yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
A long shot, premature.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
It's premature.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Sure, that's all the work to do.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
And let's talk about the current roster too, so not
even talking about historically Steelers.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So yeah, okay, oh yeah, I know, I know, we
got I was like, there's a lot of names left
off this list. Get in here cold.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
But we're talking about the current roster of guys, how
it how it shapes ounds, So.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I get it now.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
I think that's where I kind of got a little
confused because I was waiting to hear it. I'm like,
there's some names that were left off that list. But yeah,
you're absolutely right. So for the current roster of guys, yes,
I would agree that this is it.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
I just speaking of twenty twenty sixteen and that current roster.
We are going to get their max. But I have
to run this with the Hall of Fame fresh in
our minds and Max coming back from his pilgrimage. I'm sorry,
didn't mean to rupt your Max, but I'm excited. I'm excited.
I want there are some guys on that Decade See
All Decade Team who aren't in the Hall of Fame,
and I want to get your feeling as to whether
(33:01):
those guys are going to be in the Hall of
Fame or whether they belong in the Hall of Fame,
because we just sort of blithely said yesterday, if you
make the All Decades Team, you should be in. Well
a lot of them are, but a few of them are.
So Max is going to go over that with you
when we continue in the locker room here on the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
This is live coverage of twenty twenty six Steelers Training
Camp or the Steelers Audio Network, presented by bud Light,
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Speaker 5 (34:07):
H H.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
And welcome a lot of them here on the hed
his audio network with my friend Max starks I and
Rob King, We thank you for being with us. So
Max had a big trip to Canton, Ohio. Anytime you
have a chance, chance to go to Canton, Ohio, it
is a big trip.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
It's a fun thing. It was your agent's father who
went in as a as a producer, Max Is. That
was that his title. Nope, thing, It was Max's uh produce,
Max's agent's father who went in as as one of
(34:52):
the a great produce. I believe the title was producer.
But he brought us uh Madden in summer all, which
is enough. But he also revolutionized a lot of the way.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
You know, camera.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
Angles were set up and different things were shot a
little bit wider camera angle, so you weren't just seeing
like the quarterback and the line of scrimmage. You got
a little bit wider view. And of course the groundbreaking
duo of some are all in madd and the greatest
I mean, we made the comparison. I made the comparison
the analogy to the Beatles. You know, somebody's got to
(35:26):
be first, somebody's got to set the set them, you know,
create the mold, and then after that it's just hard
to be It's hard to be that innovated because you know,
there's only so much you can innovate. Those guys were
way out in front of everybody else. So we are
talking about Max and I when we're talking about the
Hall of Fame, because Max was heading that way during
yesterday's show. So before Max hopping the car and drove
(35:48):
the Canton, we just both agreed that, hey, if you
make the All Decade Team, you should be in the
Hall of Fame. And I think this is so West
and West filled in after Richd. Max came on before
his great show, The Drive of Matt Williamson, and we
kicked around the twenty tens All Decade Team and agreed
(36:11):
that there were players that probably weren't going to get
into the Hall of Fame. So the question now becomes,
does everybody on this list belong in the Hall of
Fame or are there guys just because you made the
All Decades Team, maybe you don't make the Hall of Fame.
So I think this is a question and this so
(36:32):
Max is one of those players careerstraddled both decades, but
largely is a two thousands sort of guy. So I
think that that's you know. And we did the twenty
ten's yesterday with Wes and again found some people that
we thought, well, I don't know, So we're gonna go
to the two thousands and run through these guys. Who's
(36:53):
in the Hall of Fame and whether somebody else deserves
to be in the Hall of Fame, who isn't in
the Hall of Fame yet will eventually be in the
Hall of Fame, Who isn't in the Hall of Fame yet?
So here are the the the two thousand Pro Football
Hall of Fame, all two thousand teams. So we started
the quarterbacks first team. Let's preface this is the first
(37:15):
gonna run. We're gonna run.
Speaker 6 (37:17):
We're gonna run both.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Okay, okay, okay, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning. Manning's in. Brady's
not not in yet because he hasn't had the chance
to get in.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, because yeah, he's what twenty
twenty eight is first eligible.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
I'm not sure when it is, but I know, whenever
it is, he's going in.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, first ballot.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
First ballot, he's you know, he's he's hanging out, uh,
you know, in that very inner sanctum of the Hall
of Fame. You know what I mean, Like if there's
a there's a dining room in the center of the ballroom.
You know, Mel Blunt saying out there, you know, Joe
Green hanging out there, Lawrence Taylor's hanging out there, Tom
(38:04):
Brady's hanging out there.
Speaker 6 (38:05):
He just diactly.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
You know there are others, but I'm just you know,
he's obvious. Okay, So running backs, first teams, two running backs,
the Danian Tomlinson in the Hall of Fame, Edrin James
in the Hall of Fame. Okay, now here's where it
gets interesting. So we probably should have said, if you
make the first team, you're in. And that's what that's
(38:29):
certainly what I meant, Max, Right, I don't want to
I don't want to go revision this history, but that's
what I meant. If you make the first team All
Decades team, you should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (38:39):
Agreed.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Yeah, correct, We're not back pedaling, We're not back.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We're not back peddling, We're just full Okay.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
So second team running backs Sean, Alexander, jamal Lewis, neither one.
Neither one is in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, Hall of very good. Both, Yeah, both of them,
both of them.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm putting them both there. And listen, I played against Sean,
you know, super Bowl forty at the height of his powers,
you know, as as just a dominant running back.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
But he did fall off.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
A cliff when he went to Washington and it wasn't
the sustained success of a Ladanian Tomlinson where yes they
have him listed at the San Diego charge, but he
also went to the Jets as well.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
And then Edge was edge man.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Edge did it in Indianapolis, he did it in Arizona,
and and of course we'll know him as an Indiapolis
cult more so than we do as an Arizona cardinal. But
dominated at both and was it was it was in
that that Super Bowl forty three, super Bowl team for
the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
You know, it's interesting, is I look at jamal Lewis's career,
lost two thousand and one with an injury, great year
in two thousand and with thirteen sixty four rushing yards.
You just looked at his numbers, you know. And I
probably because he was playing in that Steelers Baltimore rivalry.
(40:13):
At boy, it was certainly the beginning of what I
would call the hatred period of that rivalry, which is
cooled slightly to just massive dislike. But I think the players, yeah,
they just didn't like each other.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Man. It was.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
It was one of those kind of games.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
No, No, I did not.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
Yeah, I thought Jamal was a terrific back and a
bruising back, and he was a type of back, you
know what I mean. So we talked about like Drin
James and Ladanian Tomlinson putting up these great numbers. Well
they were receiving and they were running, and now were
they being utilized because they had a different skill set
(40:51):
if they were in Baltimore, would they be would they
have been jammed between the tackles against the Steelers? I
don't know. But for for his job, I always thought
the world of Jamal. I always thought he was a
top hard physical runner.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and and listen and we've
had we had some battles and Joey Porter and him
and had some personal battles on the field pregame and
getting kicked.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Off before the game we started.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
He went to Cleveland, So yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah,
there there is, like you said, a specific back. I mean,
for a pure running back, I mean, excellent, excellent player
and and deservedly is is it, you know, is an
all decades team member. But I just don't think the
resume like you said, because of this. I mean, let's
(41:37):
just think about this. Ladenian Towmson, Edger and James went
in before Roger Craig, and Roger Craig was was was
the template that all those guys had their careers afterwards?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (41:45):
Uh so yeah, so he's like, it's like, hey, can
you hit the a thousand yards receiving a thousand yards
of rushing in the same season? Okay, that that's what
we're trying to do. Edge and Ladanian Roger Craig did
it and still wasn't in the Hall of Fame. But
now he's finally play least rightfully where he deserves. So
I think Jamal Lewis's falls to that pure just running
(42:05):
running back. So you think of you know, but his style,
he was a big, physical, bruising back.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
So who's who's the who is the.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Archetype or the prototype that's in the Hall of Fame
that ran the way that he did, you know, And
I think that that that it's tougher to find those
type of guys. I think you have to think of
like a Larry Zanka. Maybe it is probably the closest
to that. John Riggins probably the next closest to that.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
And how does he fare against them?
Speaker 4 (42:35):
And definitely Jerome Jerome is definitely the prototype for that.
So I mean, so you say, okay, there is a
place for him, right, but do his numbers stack up
against those guys? And well, Jerome Bettis is third all
time rushing leader all time, So uh so.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
No in that one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And then you said Larry Zak Larry Zaca has the
Super Bowls on his side as well in that in
the era that he ran. And so you're like, well, okay,
he falls in the Hall of very good. He's just
that cussy, you know, he's just that that wrung right
below Hall of Fame tier.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
So thirteen hundred yards three times and two thousand on
another occasion, so four times the eclipse thirteen hundred yards.
That's awfully good, awfully good. Didn't make a lot of
Pro Bowl teams. And again, sometimes that's the competition you're
up against. I I think, I think he's just short,
but I probably I think one, just one, just one.
(43:38):
Janner had three. It's funny like if I think of
those two, I think of Sean alex I think of
Jamal Lewis is the better running back. But John Alexander
made three Pro Bowls. So his contemporaries h and the
voters said otherwise. I just noticed the time acts. We're
woefully late. Let's take a break, let's come back after
the break, Let's continue this discussion about the twenty tens
(44:01):
All Decade teams. So far. So far, Max, I think
we're batting one thousand first team. If you make a
first team All Decade team, you should be in the
Hall of Fame. So far, I don't have any disagreements
with with what we've come across. We're going to dive
into it further. Also, look forward to the scrimmage tonight
when we continue in the locker room here on the
Steelers Audio Network.
This is live coverage of the twenty twenty six Steelers
Training Camp on the Steelers Audio Network, presented by bud Light,
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Speaker 3 (00:50):
Saint Vincent College, Unity Township, Westmoreland County on the hills
of the Laurel Highlands Mountains. Welcome to in the locker
room here on the steel Deler's Audio Network.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Glad he could join us here live from Pittsburgh Steelers'
training camp. Rob King will be subbing in. I'm subbing
in for Rob King, I should say. Rob will be
joining us here in just a few minutes working out
some technical stuff on our back end. But we're being
joined with his co host Max Stark's here in the
locker room and Mack you Max, you had an exciting
night with some Hall of Famers.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
It was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderul wonderful night. Yeah, left
here a you know, hour number two of the show
and started driving uh to Canton, Ohio. Obviously Hall of
Fame weekend. We saw the game two days ago. Last
night was the Gold Jacket dinner and ceremony, and tonight,
(01:45):
of course the Hall of Famers will get their bust
and they'll get their speeches in Canton from h Tom
Benson Stadium. But it was nice to go because my agent,
you know, those were listening yesterday his dad got the
Pete Roselle Award posthumously, so my agent spoke on his
dad's behalf. And it was cool because I've been to
(02:06):
the Gold Jacket ceremony twice, you know, once for Jerome
when he went in and.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Then post COVID the Double Class twenty twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
So so Coach Cower, Alan Troy, Bill Nunn, Donnisha, all
of those guys went in in that superclass.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So that was a second. But it was funny because
I was sitting.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I normally sat in the stands like the in the
in the Canton civic centers where they hold it, but
this time, because I was there with my A, I
sat at a table on the on the floor level.
And that was really really cool to experience because they
had a record last night. One hundred and twenty guys
came back, So it was just awesome just to see
(02:48):
a the number of guys that showed up of the
three hundred and eighty seven, but more importantly all the
Steeler legends that were in a ten last night. So
it was just great. I mean, saw Lynn Swann, saw
Joe Green, Donnie Shell, and then of course like you
(03:09):
go to my Mel Blunt, then my contemporaries, you know, Alan,
Alan Troy wasn't there, DERMONDI Dawson, Coach Cower, and so
it was just really cool to just see all of
those individuals mixed in with a group of guys. I mean,
now I was telling you this off air, like I'm
looking at I'm like, man, I played.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Against a lot of these guys, Like I was in
the league the.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Same time as these guys, So what does that say
about me that I feel older?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
You know?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Am I.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
You know, I'm blessed that that kind of this era
of guys is starting to go in. You know, I
was drafted with Larry in two thousand and four and
we had the same agent our.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Whole career is Gene Parker.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So it's like to see that and you know the
emotion behind it. Play, you know, play trust me to
much chagrin. Adam Vinteri has thwarted many of many of
campaigns against New England when I played, when when played
against him, and then of course when he went to
the Colts. So it's it was it was like really
cool and Roger Craig, I mean both of us were
(04:09):
talking about we caught the back half of his career
and just what he was as a player, and finally
getting in, uh was awesome. And then Drew too many
times with Drew but yes, Drew Brees goes in as
a fifth member. It's just it was just it was
just crazy and cool to see because a lot of
the guys you think of, like a Bobby Bell, Like
I didn't watch Bobby Bell play, you know, Willie Lanier
(04:32):
and and you know Ricky Jackson, Larry Zanka, right, I
didn't see these guys play and so against them, Yeah, exact, Yeah,
letlone play against him.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
Yeh.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Jon Stiner Rou like, yeah, you remember those man Boy
Golden toe jon Stiner Roo. Yeah, did not see Jan
stener Roo play, you know, but I did see more
than Anderson.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
A little bit. I mean listened that single bar was
crazy back in the day for a k and that
was the old school luck buddy, Yeah it was. But
but yeah, it's just and you realize.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Just the history of this game, the vast history, but
like the moments these players invoked in your mind and
you see it's no question why they have a golden jacket, right,
and why they're immortalized in Canton, Ohio. I mean, these
were the best of the best of the best of
the best. You know, there was a lot of you know,
(05:23):
Rich Eisen was was hosting the show, and he was
just talking about was like there's another one, one of one's,
you know, and like it's the countless numbers. Like I'm like,
you know, when Emmitt Smith comes out, like the number
one rushing you know, running back of all time, and
I'm like, well he's a Gator, so love it.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
He's from Pensacola, Florida boy that checks your box, Yeah,
checks my box. And I was a huge m Smith's
fan back in the day. Of course. Yeah, in the nineties.
Who wasn't an Emmitt Smith fan?
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Just like in the eighties, who wasn't a Roger Craig fan.
So it's like it was Roger Craig's sweetness. I mean,
but Roger Craig was up there the high knees and
you know running.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I never liked the Cowboys, but I did like Emmett
oh yeah, and Mike Orbin that that whole team was hard.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I liked the players.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
It was tough to root for the logo because I mean,
you had to like Troy you know, you had you
had like Michael Irvin. You had you had to like
Mary Allen, Larry I mean, god, listen, listen the Hogs
up front.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Larry Allen and Nate Newton were my favorite two girls.
Nate Newton also Orlando boy went to Jones High School.
You know another one right.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There, shout out, shout out to Orlando.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
But yeah, moos Johnston, right, I mean, and then you
had Dion on there on those teams, Charles Hayley, I mean,
you had you had so many guys that she just liked,
but it was just tough to root for.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
The name of the team and the logo. So Jimmy
Johnson and the hair, right, the hair, I was I
was a little bit less Jimmy Johnson because he went
to Miami, That's right.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So yeah, so so yeah, So it was just it
was just but it was an awesome night. It was
a beautiful night. The speech my my agent, Dean Grossman
gave was fabulous talking about his dad, I mean, and
then they then they had like this little little vignette
they played, you know, for each of them, and it
was crazy to see John Madden and Pat Summraw giving
(07:14):
an interview about what they thought about Sandy Grosse, which
I thought was just phenomenal. I was like, man, they
went into like the archives and found something. So that
was it was just beautiful, beautiful night.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And I mean, those are two the best to talk
to when it comes to stuff like that during that
time period. Rob King, the host of this show in
the locker room now on the line. Hello, Rob, Welcome
into the locker room with your buddy Max Starks.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
I'm in my own locker room right now.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, I got I got my own I got
my own locker, all set up here, ready to go. Max.
I know you've been talking about this, but I just
hope you had a special great time last night.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I did, man, I I did, and.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
And it was it was. It was a great time.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And I was kind of talking talking with Ed here,
you know, just seeing all of the amount of guys.
They had a record number return of gold jackets last night,
one hundred and twenty that showed up. So I was
telling him about the Steelers guys that were there, and
of course then I was saying, how, you know, this
feels weird because now I'm in the era of guys
(08:20):
going in, so I played against a lot of these guys.
I'm in the same age range as a lot of
these guys. So that was kind of surreal the number
of guys that were getting called in. And He's like, dude,
this dude has a has a gold I remember playing
against this guy and it felt like yesterday.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I mean, you know, Patrick Willis, Julius Peppers, Jared.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Allen, right, I mean played well, you know, loved Jonathan
Jonathan Ogden and Willie Rofe and Orlando Pace, like you know,
you're seeing all these guys and hey, actually I remember
for my rookie year playing against Jerry Rice. Right, this
crazy easy to say those type of things out loud.
(09:03):
You said, what he was with the Raiders. He was
with the Raiders in O four. And you know John.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Lynch, I played against John Lynch. John Lynch is a
GM Now. I used to go to John Lynch's Golf
Golf Classic in Rancho Cucamonga, you know, and down in
San Diego.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Like right, it's like, it's crazy to see all these
guys in and it was, but it's also beautiful because
it's a it's literally some of the greatest cross sections
of our sport history that was represented in that room,
and it was just a beautiful sight to see. Like
(09:40):
like I went to school with Thrman Thomas's kids, you know,
and I watched Thurman play Wow, you know, and Sap
SAPs from right up the way in Plymouth, Florida, which
is right outside of a Papka, which is right outside
of Orlando.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Like I I remember when.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Sap what was playing, and so it's just a really
cool and Richard Seymour took me on my official visit
at University of Georgia. You know what I'm saying, Like,
it's yeah, so it's like it's wild to see these
guys in this position. I mean, Jared Allen and I
used to roll around an mm A practice in the
(10:15):
off season, like when we were young pups, you know what.
And so I'm just I was really blessed and it
just gave me a lot of pride just to see
the guys going in and to see the guys.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Are already in there, just all surrounded.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
I mean, Joe Thomas was there, and I remember Joe,
you know, but you feel like Joe played for the
Browns for like thirty five years, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Like it was like every w he was the only
iron Man, him and Jim Brown. That was it.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
But but he has a farm and they supplied the
meat for the dinner. You know, they supplied the beef
for the Hall of Fame, for the Gold Jacket ceremony dinner.
So that was like crazy to think, you know, he
has a farm in Wisconsin with all his cattle and
was able to provide the meal. So it's just it
was just those type of moments, those type of occasions,
(11:04):
and it's just where football. You kind of take a
breath and look back at the grandeur of this game,
the history of this game, and the significance of this game.
And also, you know, it's the official kickoff of the
NFL football season when the Hall of Fame activities, not
only the game, but the activities around the Hall of
Fame come into purview because that's the official start of
(11:26):
preseason and that means football is now back and dominates
our lives for the next few months.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
It's wonderful. It is such a great kickoff. It's an
awesome place. You know, you can always you can find
us one since to swing by on the way there.
Always good. Have you been to those, Max?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Oh yeah, I've been to Swinsons, but I was more
I was more intrigued by the handles ice cream.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Uh that that that that.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Sustained me on my drive. So I'm really appreciated of
the of those. Yeah, because I had the dinner I
had had at the Hall of Fame beef from Joe Thomas,
So you know, I couldn't necessarily have a Slinsons burger,
you know after that, U that would ruin the short
rid that they provided.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Oh yeah, we see the chef or something.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Joe Thomas, No, he wasn't the chef, but he was
a he's a cattle rancher. Now he does Hall of
Fame Farms and they and they produce a certified Angus beef.
So yeah, his his farms was the one that supplied
the beef for the event.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
That is tremendous.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
That is so good.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Why would you go anywhere else? Right?
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah, exactly, a Hall of Fame dinner from a Hall
of Famer, you know, get the get the beef from
the Hall of Famer, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
So Max, yesterday we both agreed, probably without I mean
just sort of, I don't know, we agreed that.
Speaker 6 (12:48):
If you make the All Decade Team, you.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Probably belong in the Hall of Fame. I Actually, I
think we got a little stronger than that. I think
we said you belong in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And all the guys that got selected yesterday are all
numbers of All Decade teams.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Okay, So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do
two things to have a little Hall of Fame chat,
and then we'll turn our attention to the Steelers and
what's going on tonight in Latrobe. A fun night for fans,
fun night, I think for the team and the players.
Speaker 6 (13:19):
So two things.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
One, ESPN came out with a list of players from
each team who are shoeings for the Hall of Fame
and who are on the cusp of the Hall of
Fame maybe need some work to get into the Hall
of Fame. I want to go over that list with you,
and then I want to take your era. So you
you you know, you're one of those guys. You played
(13:40):
in the aughts and you played in the tens, so
that's you know, we I think we touched on that briefly.
Maybe it was Wess and because Wes and I dug
into the twenty ten All Decade Team ten to twenty,
that was I think Wes's probably Wes's heyday. I want
to go back to your heyday as a player. You
did play in the tens, but I'm gonna go into
(14:01):
that earlier decade now. Again, keep in mind, there are
guys that are just in that awkward place. If you
played from two thousand and five to twenty fifteen, if
you played from two thousand and six to twenty fifteen,
it's hard to make either all decade teams.
Speaker 6 (14:17):
So the question.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
And then what that also does is, first of all,
it removes you from the possibility perhaps of making an
All Decade team, unless you're just over the top brilliant.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
But if you're merely great, right.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
Which is still good enough for the Hall of Fame,
you could be precluded from being on that team by
the same token that might get somebody onto the team
that maybe not wouldn't match up against one of those
sort of scraddling players. So we have a lot to
unpack here, Max. We're gonna go through the twenty ten
All Decade or two thousand to twenty ten All Decade team,
(14:51):
prime of your career.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
We're gonna go through.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
The Hall of Famers and non Hall of famers. We're
gonna kind of get your feeling on are there some
oversight here in the Hall of Fame? And we're all
still going to look at the Steelers guys who, according
to ESPN, are either in the Hall of Fame or
on the cusp of the Hall of Fame. And then
we'll turn our attention to the night practice scrimmage, that
(15:15):
sort of thing tonight in La Trobe. So that's what's
on the docket when we continue here, By the way,
thanks to Ed Truth for filling in for a few minutes.
That's much appreciated. Ed doing a great job, So thank
you Ed. Max Starks and I I'm Rob Kink. He's
Max Starks. We will be back in the locker room
right after this here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
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(15:56):
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(16:19):
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Speaker 4 (16:38):
All right, back inside the locker room and you know
Kinger you good, Yes, sir, I'm awesome, awesome, awesome, Yeah,
Now you were talking about this let's let's let's go
in in the exercise that you wanted to present for
this segment.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
I can't wait, okay, So let's start with the Wheelers, who,
according to ESPN, are in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Maybe have some work to do, that.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
Sort of thing.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
So no surprise, Aaron Rodgers TJ. Watt as definitely guys
who are going to be in the Hall of Fame.
So it says Rogers requires no discussion. What Meanwhile, it
was solid as a rookie in twenty seventeen, then emerges
a star near two. He made eight straight Pro balls,
(17:31):
then a first team All Pro four times, one Defensive
Player of the Year in twenty twenty one. Regular season
resume obviously hasn't won a playoff game, yet regular season
resume is sufficiently substantial to ensure that he will join
JJ Watt and becoming the second set of brothers in
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
No argument there, correct.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yep, correct.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
Okay, So those guys are shoeings. Now it gets a
little more interesting to me because they have Cam Hayward
and Jalen Ramsey as on the CUSP. So he says, hey,
I covered Ramsey. I had covered Hayward's case. Last week,
Ramsey ad eight time Pro bowler, three time First Team
(18:13):
All Pro who was one of the best players in
a Super Bowl winning defense in Los Angeles. So the
difference between his resume and Watts really is the defensive
player of the year and TJ has one more First
Team All Pro selection, So it says if Ramsey can
(18:33):
manage another first Team All Pro appearance or push his
career deep into his thirties, he has a chance.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
So I think this.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Is really interesting because I think both guys have very,
very very good credentials to get themselves into the Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I do too, And I think the other thing that they,
you know, they kind of discount, which is weighed heavily,
is he has a Super Bowl ring as well.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
For Jalen rings, right, So I think that.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Kind of washes out the extra All Pro nod because
he has that Super Bowl ring, and that is one
of those X factor stats that you were considered one
of the top two to three defenders.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
On a team that had a very dominant.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Defensive performance in the Super Bowl, you know, And so
I think so for Jalen Ramsey, I think that kind
of pushes him a little bit ahead of the CUSP
category from that respect. So yeah, I think if Jalen
just hasn't pretty much finished with a solid year, whether
it's this year and next year or however much longer,
but you just have solid years and you're still a
(19:42):
starter capable.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Guy, I believe he's more than a CUSP guy.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Now.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Do I think he's first ballot Absolutely not. And I
think you know when you make the reference to Aaron
Rodgers and TJ yes, those are the first ballot nods.
But I think Jalen Ramsey like like we just watched
with a Luke Keakley that just went in yesterday, right,
he just got his gold jacket. You know, seven of
his eight seasons he had one hundred tackles, and yes
he was a pro bowler for seven of those years
and Rookie of the Year. But you know, there is
(20:10):
you know, there doesn't necessarily have to be a long
career to justify Jalen Ramsey. He's got eight Pro Bowls
in his career, he's got three All Pros, he has
the Super Bowl Championship. He's considered, he was considered at
one time, you know a certain stretch of about three
year stretch where he was one of the best corners
in the league. So and a guy that could probably
play and that showed versatility and played multiple positions within
(20:31):
the defensive structure. So you know, I look at that
and I'm like that, that's a tough that's a tough Cusp.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
If you're talking.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
About Cusp, I think he's one that gets in after
you know, two maybe three tries.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
You know. So I think it's gonna be very interesting
if Cam has one or two more type years like
he had a year ago, I think he could make
in all deck team. So when you talk about all
decade teams and the importance of all decade teams, we're
kind of circling back to this. So I look at
(21:08):
a guy like, for example, Geno Atkins. So Geno Atkins
came into the NFL in twenty ten and obviously was
a tremendous player, no question about Gino. He came in
a year before Cam Heyward. Now again, here's your other question.
Does the decade start with a zero and end with
(21:29):
a nine or start with a one and end with
a zero? And honestly, it sounds silly, but that's important
when it comes to how many All pros or something
does a player have. So Geno Atkins, great player again,
great player, not in the Hall of Fame, but a
great player.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Eight not in the Hall of Fame yet.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Eight time Pro Bowler okay, two time first team All Pro,
and one time second team All Pro.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
So that's his resume. Here's the difference between he and
Cam Hayward. Is that Cam Hayward, you know, hit his
prime in two thousand and seventeen, right, and you know
he had some very very good seasons in which he
was being listed as a defensive end and not as
(22:19):
a defensive tackle. And you know, again there's sort of
a silly label, right that says, Okay, well, we're gonna
compare him to other defensive ends. Well, guess what those
other defensive ends are playing four to three their rush
ends they're getting they're piling up fourteen fifteen sacks and
(22:40):
making Pro Bowl teams. So that didn't happen with Cam
until he had twelve sacks, which is amazing from where
he's playing defensively, you know, an inside rusher, I mean,
that's an incredible thing. So he didn't start making Pro
Ball teams until two thousand seventeen, in which he made
(23:02):
the Pro Bowl and was an All Pro one. So
Gino Atkins was an All Pro one twice and made
the All Decades Team. Cam Hayward didn't make the All
Decades team from twenty too, from twenty ten to twenty nineteen,
but he's already racked up four Pro Bowls in this decade,
(23:23):
four Pro Bowls. He's a two time All Pro One
in this decade, a four time All Pro one altogether.
But his greatness, his peak straddled twenty twenty. So he's
one of those guys exactly like we're talking about with
the All Decades teams. Now, some of it's when they
come into the league, but for Cam it was the
(23:44):
recognition coming later in his career. So all this damage
that he's done, you know, the different Pro Bowl appearances
for him, and he's one off against seven Pro Bowls,
four first team All Pros, two second team All Pros.
Those have all happened since twenty seventeen. If the decade
started in twenty seventeen and ended in twenty twenty six,
(24:07):
he would be, no doubt on the All Decade Team,
no question, he'd be on the All Decade Team. As
in is he didn't make the last one, and I'm
not sure if he's gonna make this one because of
his career straddling, his greatness on the peak of his
career straddling at twenty twenty mark.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
And you also have to throw in Walter Payton Man
of the Year. That's another award accolade that gets weighed
into that that happened in the twenty twenties, right, So
you know, it's it's one of those It's tough because
like you go from that and you say all decades,
team is a shoe in you know, in a lot
of cases, but you're absolutely right, Like the dominance that
(24:48):
happens is you.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Fall in that gap area.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
But I think for Cam it's not a matter of
if it will be a win thing for him, but
I think he will have a lot lesser weight than
a lot of guys just because, like you said, there's
a recency element to it, and like you said, he
did it in two different decades and that that comes
(25:12):
down to, you know, for him, who else is going
to be on that list at the time. You know,
is it going to be someone who you know, who's
going to have a stronger resume when Cam hangs it
up and then hits the five year mark, right, you know,
are there unanimous first ballot guys that are going to
come off the board the same time as him?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And so I think that's really what it is.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
It's a shell game like Alan Fanica, Right, Alan Fanica
had the same thing where he waited and waited even
though the credentials were undeniable. But Allen was one of
those guys came in in ninety eight when he was
drafted immediate impact, you know, all rookie team and then,
like you said, started making Pro Bowls consistently and then
slipped into the two thousands and then still had a
(25:56):
good start to his career in the two thousands, and
I think that's kind of where we land in this process.
But you know, eventually it did happen, right, It did
finally come into fruition because he was a guy who
was a first team All Decades team in the two thousands, right,
(26:16):
And so you know that's one of those where you
can kind of dominate a majority and the front end,
which I think that's what Cam has.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
On his side.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
He dominated the beginning of the twenty twenties and has
been a you know, a constant fixture through over half
of it. We're down in the twenty twenty six, twenty
twenty seven season, so we are, you know, three corps,
you know, two thirds of the way almost almost three
cords of the way through the twenty twenty decades. And
he's still a significant player and still a face on
(26:45):
this franchise.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It is baffling to me that Alan Fannik had to
wait that long.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I can't for the life of meat.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
I mean, I don't understand how you can have, you know,
really a much better resume than Allen had. You know
what I mean. I mean, you know, here's a guy
who who won a Super Bowl. He was a nine
time Pro Bowl. He was in eight six, six time
first team All Pro, a second time, a two times
second team All Pro. I mean, just a stretch of
(27:15):
dominance in which he was the top one or two
guards in the NFL for a decade. I don't know
why that makes you wait and I understand and why.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Went in before him?
Speaker 4 (27:27):
So that that's my biggest gripe is that Hutchinson went
in before him. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't you know, stealer bias, whatever you want to say.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I'm like, he was better than Steve Hudginson.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Now, granted they're both in now, so it's like, are
we really arguing which marbles in front of the other.
But at the time, Steve Hudginson was in and Alan
Fanica was not in, and it was just it was
just mind baffling how this decision making process came to be.
But but yeah, but once again he's in and and
(28:01):
he made it. But you're right, it was just it
was way too long. I mean, he should have been
first or second ballot easily.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Yes, Well, those two were contemporaries, and they were the
two best guards in the game, right they were contemporaries,
And those are your two best guys, right, one playing
in the NFC for a large part of his career.
I always say to him as Minnesota. I know he
played with Seattle and he was.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Transition tag contract. I'll never forget that, Steve.
Speaker 6 (28:28):
Yeah, how about that?
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah he was you know, so AFC NFC, the two
best guys, no doubt why one gets in and the other.
I mean, okay, okay, so one more first team All
Pro for Hutchinson, But one more Pro Bowl for Allen,
so a little bit longer prime. I just again, I
don't know how they make these decisions. I do get that,
(28:51):
you know, it feels like you can be and I
know it's it underscores the important to think about this
as you're not comparing apples to apples. You truly are
never are in any sport. You know, you guy's a
great defensive shortstop. Maybe he's not putting up the numbers
of a right fielder, but that right fielder maybe's kind
of a statue out there, you know, so he's not
(29:12):
adding anything other than the that. And so you're trying
to figure out all these different things, and we understand
where the game is gone. You know, quarterbacks, receivers, edge rushers,
running backs, you know, guards and centers. You know, offensive tackles, guards, centers,
defensive tackles. These guys, it's it's it's a weight. It's
(29:33):
harder for those guys to get in the Hall of Fame,
not because they're not great players, but because of the
nature of the position that they play.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
No, absolutely, I'm in agreeance with you that it is
a tougher metric and like, oh well, there's so many
but I mean, but when you think about it, you
look at it, if you make the All Decade team,
think about this, all four guards are in the All
Decade team and in the All Decade Team are in
the Hall of Fame from the two thousands because Larry
(30:01):
Allen and Will Shields were the other two guards.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
And ahead to look at it, you're not sneaking ahead,
are you for our next topic?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
No? No, I'm just talking about the two thousands. It's
talking about the two thousands.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
Okay, that's the case.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, because that's that's the case that we make is
how tough it is to get in. But when you
look back on that list, it's like we all four
of them made it in.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
There's only two per team. It all four of them
made it in. So what what's what's like that criteria
for being in those moments? So yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
I mean, it's it's one of those that it's still
a head scratcher.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
So this is just to finish off the ESPN thinking
we're running a little bit long and we might have
to go a little bit long on the two thousands team,
but work to do, okay. Troytanu, Zach Fraser, DK Metcalf
Joey Porter Jr. Well, look, I'm just fullish on Fraser
and Porter, but work to do, my goodness, I mean,
(30:58):
these guys, you know, you have to start making teams
and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, and you're like your second and third years in
the league.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Yeah. So he says, I'm excited about about time to
win praise with the young offensive lineman in Pittsburgh. Better
receiver metcalst is on the cuff. Metcalf is on the
cusp of falling out of Hall of Fame consideration, entirely
given that he's almost twenty nine with only two Pro
Bowls to his name. Metcalf's thirteen hundred and three receiving
yard season in twenty twenty also looks like a bit
(31:26):
of an outlier, since he hasn't come within one hundred
and fifty yards of that total and any even the
other six campaigns. The haul of very good might be beckoning
for the six or four inch wide out, but let's
see what he does in twenty twenty six. I agree,
Let's see what he does in twenty twenty six. And
as for the other guys, let's see what take two
over the next half a dozen seasons.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
You know, I'm bullish on all those guys, but I
think they're just trying to round out the article. When
you're talking about young guys who are still on their
first contract and still waiting to get into that first
Pro Bowl.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, this is this is this is a very
uh yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
A long shot, premature.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
It's premature.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Sure, that's all the work to do.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
And let's talk about the current roster too, so not
even talking about historically Steelers.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
So yeah, okay, oh yeah, I know, I know, we
got I was like, there's a lot of names left
off this list. Get in here cold.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
But we're talking about the current roster of guys, how
it how it shapes ounds, So.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I get it now.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
I think that's where I kind of got a little
confused because I was waiting to hear it. I'm like,
there's some names that were left off that list. But yeah,
you're absolutely right. So for the current roster of guys, yes,
I would agree that this is it.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (32:40):
I just speaking of twenty twenty sixteen and that current roster.
We are going to get their max. But I have
to run this with the Hall of Fame fresh in
our minds and Max coming back from his pilgrimage. I'm sorry,
didn't mean to rupt your Max, but I'm excited. I'm excited.
I want there are some guys on that Decade See
All Decade Team who aren't in the Hall of Fame,
and I want to get your feeling as to whether
(33:01):
those guys are going to be in the Hall of
Fame or whether they belong in the Hall of Fame,
because we just sort of blithely said yesterday, if you
make the All Decades Team, you should be in. Well
a lot of them are, but a few of them are.
So Max is going to go over that with you
when we continue in the locker room here on the
Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
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Speaker 5 (34:07):
H H.
Speaker 8 (34:12):
And welcome a lot of them here on the hed
his audio network with my friend Max starks I and
Rob King, We thank you for being with us. So
Max had a big trip to Canton, Ohio. Anytime you
have a chance, chance to go to Canton, Ohio, it
is a big trip.
Speaker 5 (34:29):
It's a fun thing. It was your agent's father who
went in as a as a producer, Max Is. That
was that his title. Nope, thing, It was Max's uh produce,
Max's agent's father who went in as as one of
(34:52):
the a great produce. I believe the title was producer.
But he brought us uh Madden in summer all, which
is enough. But he also revolutionized a lot of the way.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
You know, camera.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
Angles were set up and different things were shot a
little bit wider camera angle, so you weren't just seeing
like the quarterback and the line of scrimmage. You got
a little bit wider view. And of course the groundbreaking
duo of some are all in madd and the greatest
I mean, we made the comparison. I made the comparison
the analogy to the Beatles. You know, somebody's got to
(35:26):
be first, somebody's got to set the set them, you know,
create the mold, and then after that it's just hard
to be It's hard to be that innovated because you know,
there's only so much you can innovate. Those guys were
way out in front of everybody else. So we are
talking about Max and I when we're talking about the
Hall of Fame, because Max was heading that way during
yesterday's show. So before Max hopping the car and drove
(35:48):
the Canton, we just both agreed that, hey, if you
make the All Decade Team, you should be in the
Hall of Fame. And I think this is so West
and West filled in after Richd. Max came on before
his great show, The Drive of Matt Williamson, and we
kicked around the twenty tens All Decade Team and agreed
(36:11):
that there were players that probably weren't going to get
into the Hall of Fame. So the question now becomes,
does everybody on this list belong in the Hall of
Fame or are there guys just because you made the
All Decades Team, maybe you don't make the Hall of Fame.
So I think this is a question and this so
(36:32):
Max is one of those players careerstraddled both decades, but
largely is a two thousands sort of guy. So I
think that that's you know. And we did the twenty
ten's yesterday with Wes and again found some people that
we thought, well, I don't know, So we're gonna go
to the two thousands and run through these guys. Who's
(36:53):
in the Hall of Fame and whether somebody else deserves
to be in the Hall of Fame, who isn't in
the Hall of Fame yet will eventually be in the
Hall of Fame, Who isn't in the Hall of Fame yet?
So here are the the the two thousand Pro Football
Hall of Fame, all two thousand teams. So we started
the quarterbacks first team. Let's preface this is the first
(37:15):
gonna run. We're gonna run.
Speaker 6 (37:17):
We're gonna run both.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Okay, okay, okay, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning. Manning's in. Brady's
not not in yet because he hasn't had the chance
to get in.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, because yeah, he's what twenty
twenty eight is first eligible.
Speaker 5 (37:35):
I'm not sure when it is, but I know, whenever
it is, he's going in.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, first ballot.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
First ballot, he's you know, he's he's hanging out, uh,
you know, in that very inner sanctum of the Hall
of Fame. You know what I mean, Like if there's
a there's a dining room in the center of the ballroom.
You know, Mel Blunt saying out there, you know, Joe
Green hanging out there, Lawrence Taylor's hanging out there, Tom
(38:04):
Brady's hanging out there.
Speaker 6 (38:05):
He just diactly.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
You know there are others, but I'm just you know,
he's obvious. Okay, So running backs, first teams, two running backs,
the Danian Tomlinson in the Hall of Fame, Edrin James
in the Hall of Fame. Okay, now here's where it
gets interesting. So we probably should have said, if you
make the first team, you're in. And that's what that's
(38:29):
certainly what I meant, Max, Right, I don't want to
I don't want to go revision this history, but that's
what I meant. If you make the first team All
Decades team, you should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 6 (38:39):
Agreed.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
Yeah, correct, We're not back pedaling, We're not back.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
We're not back peddling, We're just full Okay.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
So second team running backs Sean, Alexander, jamal Lewis, neither one.
Neither one is in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, Hall of very good. Both, Yeah, both of them,
both of them.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm putting them both there. And listen, I played against Sean,
you know, super Bowl forty at the height of his powers,
you know, as as just a dominant running back.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
But he did fall off.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
A cliff when he went to Washington and it wasn't
the sustained success of a Ladanian Tomlinson where yes they
have him listed at the San Diego charge, but he
also went to the Jets as well.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
And then Edge was edge man.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Edge did it in Indianapolis, he did it in Arizona,
and and of course we'll know him as an Indiapolis
cult more so than we do as an Arizona cardinal. But
dominated at both and was it was it was in
that that Super Bowl forty three, super Bowl team for
the Cardinals.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
You know, it's interesting, is I look at jamal Lewis's career,
lost two thousand and one with an injury, great year
in two thousand and with thirteen sixty four rushing yards.
You just looked at his numbers, you know. And I
probably because he was playing in that Steelers Baltimore rivalry.
(40:13):
At boy, it was certainly the beginning of what I
would call the hatred period of that rivalry, which is
cooled slightly to just massive dislike. But I think the players, yeah,
they just didn't like each other.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Man. It was.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
It was one of those kind of games.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
No, No, I did not.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
Yeah, I thought Jamal was a terrific back and a
bruising back, and he was a type of back, you
know what I mean. So we talked about like Drin
James and Ladanian Tomlinson putting up these great numbers. Well
they were receiving and they were running, and now were
they being utilized because they had a different skill set
(40:51):
if they were in Baltimore, would they be would they
have been jammed between the tackles against the Steelers? I
don't know. But for for his job, I always thought
the world of Jamal. I always thought he was a
top hard physical runner.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yeah, no, I completely agree, and and listen and we've
had we had some battles and Joey Porter and him
and had some personal battles on the field pregame and
getting kicked.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Off before the game we started.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
He went to Cleveland, So yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah,
there there is, like you said, a specific back. I mean,
for a pure running back, I mean, excellent, excellent player
and and deservedly is is it, you know, is an
all decades team member. But I just don't think the
resume like you said, because of this. I mean, let's
(41:37):
just think about this. Ladenian Towmson, Edger and James went
in before Roger Craig, and Roger Craig was was was
the template that all those guys had their careers afterwards?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (41:45):
Uh so yeah, so he's like, it's like, hey, can
you hit the a thousand yards receiving a thousand yards
of rushing in the same season? Okay, that that's what
we're trying to do. Edge and Ladanian Roger Craig did
it and still wasn't in the Hall of Fame. But
now he's finally play least rightfully where he deserves. So
I think Jamal Lewis's falls to that pure just running
(42:05):
running back. So you think of you know, but his style,
he was a big, physical, bruising back.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
So who's who's the who is the.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Archetype or the prototype that's in the Hall of Fame
that ran the way that he did, you know, And
I think that that that it's tougher to find those
type of guys. I think you have to think of
like a Larry Zanka. Maybe it is probably the closest
to that. John Riggins probably the next closest to that.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
And how does he fare against them?
Speaker 4 (42:35):
And definitely Jerome Jerome is definitely the prototype for that.
So I mean, so you say, okay, there is a
place for him, right, but do his numbers stack up
against those guys? And well, Jerome Bettis is third all
time rushing leader all time, So uh so.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
No in that one.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And then you said Larry Zak Larry Zaca has the
Super Bowls on his side as well in that in
the era that he ran. And so you're like, well, okay,
he falls in the Hall of very good. He's just
that cussy, you know, he's just that that wrung right
below Hall of Fame tier.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
So thirteen hundred yards three times and two thousand on
another occasion, so four times the eclipse thirteen hundred yards.
That's awfully good, awfully good. Didn't make a lot of
Pro Bowl teams. And again, sometimes that's the competition you're
up against. I I think, I think he's just short,
but I probably I think one, just one, just one.
(43:38):
Janner had three. It's funny like if I think of
those two, I think of Sean alex I think of
Jamal Lewis is the better running back. But John Alexander
made three Pro Bowls. So his contemporaries h and the
voters said otherwise. I just noticed the time acts. We're
woefully late. Let's take a break, let's come back after
the break, Let's continue this discussion about the twenty tens
(44:01):
All Decade teams. So far. So far, Max, I think
we're batting one thousand first team. If you make a
first team All Decade team, you should be in the
Hall of Fame. So far, I don't have any disagreements
with with what we've come across. We're going to dive
into it further. Also, look forward to the scrimmage tonight
when we continue in the locker room here on the
Steelers Audio Network.
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