December 4, 2025 • 43 mins
Join us as former Patriots wide receiver Irving Fryar sits down to talk about being drafted 1st overall, sharing the field with Stanley Morgan, a Super Bowl appearance, his life after football and more on this episode of Pats From the Past.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
And welcome to another edition of Pats from the Past podcast.
It's Matt Smith alongside with Paul Parlow, and we are
really pleased to be joined by number eighty in your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today,
the great and I'm not we we over use the
word great a lot of times. We're not overusing the
word using it today is Irving, Friar, Irving, thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Really appreciate it, Matt. It's it's my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I don't get a chance to come back this way
too often when I'm here to watch the game. Today,
I'm here to cheer the Patriots on. I'm also get
a chance to see my son and my grandchildren because
they're up here in Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's great. Is that the impetus for coming back here?
Because it's you're I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Just came back just to be honest you no, no, right, right,
I mean's like, what was what was your impetus?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Because it's great when some of the people like, there's
a lot of people irving in this area, and understandably so.
Think the franchise started in two thousand and one, and
that's not the case. You know, so when somebody like
you comes back here, you're literally franchised royalty.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What was the impetus to come back here?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the impetus to come back was an email that
I received from the Patriots organization inviting some of the alumni.
Boss they put together an opportunity, a program or an event.
I guess you could call either one of those for
us to come back and have a space for us
where we can bring a couple of guests. And I'm
real still good friends with Tony Collins. We stay in
(01:22):
contact with one another. And he came several weeks ago,
and I think he brought like nineteen cats with him
and they all had Tony Collins jerseys on and I
saw that he posted it. I saw it. I called
him and he told me about it. So I responded
to the email, got in touch with Jeff, talked with Kate,
and here I am.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, So first of all, what are you up to now?
Before we get into memory lane? You know, what have
you been? I mean, you look like you could still play.
Matt and I were joking with you with ten start,
for sure, he looked like you could get out and
jump in the X spot right now and run ten
go routes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No problem.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I still do workout, and I work hard, So
I'm working hard.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I listen. I had some surgery a little while ago.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I had a stone in my bladder, and yeah, that
was a bad experience. So I'm doing the best that
I can to stay as healthy as I can, and
part of that is working out. But what I'm doing now,
I've been doing the past what twenty five years now almost,
and that's I'm still pastoring.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'm actually pastoring at two different churches now, but I'm
still doing that. You can't. I can't get away from it.
I can't run from it. I tried several times, trust me,
and it is what it is. It's a calling that
you become a prisoner too, as the Apostle Paul says
in scripture, and you can't get away from it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I love loving people, and we need love more than
anything in today's world.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You know it better than I do. So I do podcasts.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I do some analysis with the Egos down in Philadelphia,
but most of my work, most of my attention, most
of my focus is with the church and when he sold.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So let's go down memory lane, Irving, And I don't
think a lot of younger people would remember. And you're
you're in a fraternity or that's pretty select. There aren't
many wide receivers that were selected number one overall in
the draft. I know Kishan's one of them because I
can remember that that was after me, right, and there's
another gentleman whose name I can't remember, I think from
(03:26):
the sixties. Yeah, you're the number one pick in the NFL.
What was that like for a kid coming out of
Nebraska from South Jersey. What was that like at the
time to be the number one pick overall?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, it wasn't the pomping circumstance that you have now
with all of the celebration and you know, the you
know they have they sell tickets to the draft now
and it's thousands of people that show up in whatever
city they're having the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It wasn't like that when I was drafted.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I actually signed my contract before the draft, and uh,
probably by the time the draft came, I had spent
like twenty five grand. But the day of the they
sent a car down to New Jersey picked myself and
my mother up. We went to the draft, they announced it,
we did an interview, we got back in the car
and went back home.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That was as exciting as it was believing.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
But there's something interesting that I kind of just realized
maybe several months ago. I was doing an interview and
began to talk about it and thinking about being drafted
as the number one pick. But I was drafted as
a wide receiver. I was a wing back in college right,
So as a wing back in college, my one on
ones in practice were in a three point stance, blocking
(04:35):
down on defensive ends or blocking linebackers. My one on
ones in practice never at Nebraska were me standing up
or even out split out running routes against the defensive back.
So the first time I had ever run a route
against the defensive back standing up was my first day
in training camp. I had never done that before, and man,
(04:59):
I got my behind quite a few times because Raymond
Claybourne and Rinning the Pitt, those guys did not play.
They were great cornerbacks and I had to face them
every day. So it was a learning curve for me
that was pretty pretty long. It took me a minute
to get my feet up underneath me to learn how
to be a wide receiver, and we didn't throw the
ball that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Much and I really didn't become, I.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Feel, a good receiver until I went to Miami where
they focused on through it.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So what was your experience, Like, you mentioned the guys
on the defensive side, but you had a pretty good
wide receiver on the other side and stands in the morning. Yes,
So what was it like sort of trying to pick
his brain a little bit. Well, here's the story behind Stanley. So, yes,
I come in, I'm gonna wing back.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing
at the wide receiver position.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I know Stanley's here. I've heard of Stanley.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I've actually watched them several times in games, and so
I'm figuring I'm going to get some tootelitch from him
and he's going to help me out. Well, when I
got drafted, Ron Myers was the head coach. Ron Myers
was falling out with Stanley Morgan. They both were having
a falling out. I think Ron was trying to get
rid of Stanley. So when I came in, Ron put
me at the same position as Stanley. So I was
(06:11):
a threat to Stanley. He and Ron were going at it.
I'm on the same side, so Stanley didn't talk to me.
He didn't say a word to me. Halfway through my
rookie year, Ron Myers gets fired, Raymond Barry comes in.
Raymond Barry takes me and he puts me on the
other side of Stanley. So now Stanley and I are
playing at the same time, rather than me playing and
(06:31):
Stanley on the side, or Stanley playing and me on
the sideline. But Stanley, the damage had already been done.
So Stanley still wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Talking to me.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So my whole rookie year, and I don't blame him,
but my whole rookie year, Stanley didn't say a word
to me, not one single word, because I was a
threat to him.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Matt, we're not even ten minutes in and you're you're
sort of finding out why the Patriots struggled so much.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Chapter Yeah, from Raymond, from Ron Myers to Raymond Barry
to Rod Russ.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Dick McPherson was one right after the year. So how
did that I did that ice ever get broken? Irving?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It did get broken, probably more so the latter part
of my second season. You know, we had that big
run and we went to the Super Bowl and lost
the Super Bowl. So that year, yeah, things kind of
came together for us, but it was again, most of
the damage that I was doing was on special team,
sure pump returner, sure catch if you passed it, but
Stanley was was the go to guy. So most of
(07:27):
my learning came from just watching Stanley. We really never
did sit down and him instruct me or teach me
or help me in that manner. Most of it came
for me just watching him and learning that way going
out and trying to do it myself.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Can you appreciate with the passage of time and perspective
that we all have as we get older and everything
like that. Stanley's a big deal around here Irving, especially
from the fact that the Hall of Fame class just
was announced for a lot of different things, coaches with Belichick,
owners with craft players, and the Veterans Committee.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think that's the best way of that because said and.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Steely Morgan's on there, and there's a lot of people
in this area Irving that really believe like his yards
per catch is.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Insane, right right, And there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Of people around here that go, yeah, why not Stealley
Morgan in the Hall of Fame. Are you able to
look back and see what he was able to do
and say that cat can play? Oh yeah, Stanley could play.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And Stanley wasn't a big guy, right, you know he
was he was a burner, and but he was a
tough guy. He was smart, he was very elusive, and
he could catch the boy really good hands. So yes,
if anybody deserves to be in the h o f
the Hall of Fame, Stanley does. And there are guys
in that position, the wide receiver wide receiver position that
(08:40):
were in the Hall of Fame whose numbers don't match
Stanley absolutely or mine right right, So for that matter,
I actually being one.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Now, well, hey, this is a good platform. Let's get it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
As you know, we wanted to ask you and you
sort of prefaced it a little bit, and you know,
the coaching turnover, but specifically Ron Meyer to ray and
what kind of an impact that had on you because
it seened from afar You're talking about all these players,
there was individual talent there. It seemed like Ray Berry
got the most out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I didn't get a chance to learn who Ron Mars
was as a coach because.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
He wasn't here that long, and so I wasn't in
his presence that long. But when Raymond came, we knew
that he was a Hall of Famer. We knew that
he was a historian in terms of football. We knew
that at least he knew how to play football. I
don't know if he what kind of coach he's going
to be, but we knew that he knew about the game.
So we man we gravitated to him, particularly the wide receivers.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
We gravitated to him as much as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
He taught me things, just not necessarily on the field,
but just how to strengthen my hands and how to
catch the ball better, what kind of drills to do,
because these are things that he did that granted him
the Hall of Fame. So we gleaned to those things
and we learned from them, and I I did those
kinds of things and carried some of those habits all
(10:03):
the way through my career.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You mentioned a coach or coaches, and I'm gonna throw
a coach by it that and ask you what you
thought about him. Who was your special team's coach at
the time. That's Sante scar neck.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just you know what did Scar?
What do you think a Scar? Listen, Scar was the best.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I was here a couple of I think a couple
of years ago doing an autograph session.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I don't think Scar recognized.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Me, but back then he was the best. And I
know he became a line coach. Uh later on uh
through that Super Bowl, the Super Bowl run absolute.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But Dante, listen, how did he help you because you
were a Pro Bowl returner in your second year in
the league.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
He helped me because I mean, obviously I did punt
returns in college. But the way we did things here
and the way Dante set it up, there was only
one guy I had to make miss, and that was
the center. So if the center got down the field
in time for me to pick him up and see him,
he was only when I had to miss. Everybody else
(11:01):
was taken care of, and we do right or left returns.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
We never did anything up the middle.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And he just understood my weaknesses or my strengths, whatever
they were, and allowed me to do what I did
the best, which was turned the corner and get up
the field.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And man, we had a great time. I had a
great time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
He was very, very intricate in how he put things
together special teams wise, and I had a lot of
confidence back there because I knew he knew what he
was doing and we were effective on special teams.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, I know you were really young in your career,
but could you notice much of a difference, you know,
from that eighty four and then Myra leaves Berry comes in,
but then eighty five comes did you notice much of
a difference. Did you sense that something special could could
be happening with that team?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
No, I knew, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I came from Nebraska. We were always winning. We never
won the championship, but we were always in the race.
So I came from a pro where the expectation was
always that we're going to be somewhere in the playoffs
or somewhere at the top at the end of the season.
And when I got here, or the year before I
got here, I think the Patriots were the number one
(12:14):
rushing team in the league.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It was Craig James and Tony Collins, Robert Weathers.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
So when I got here, my expectation was and even
after we lost the Super Bowl, my expectation was, Okay,
we're going to do this every year. The year we
went to the Super Bowl, though, it just clicked for us,
meaning we became a family. And I can say that
because all of the other teams that I played on,
including the Patriots teams Miami, Philadelphia and even Washington, we
(12:44):
never got close like that. Again, we never became a family.
I still the guys that I stay in contact with
the most are from those eighties teams and the Patriots
that I played with, telling because we just we became
a family, became really really close. Did why that happened?
How that happened? I'm not so sure if it was
Raymond Barry or if it was just something that was
(13:06):
organic that just happened. But that's why things came together
like that. We cared about one another. We hung out
with one another, We went over one another's houses and
spent time.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We knew one.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Another's wives and children, and it was just it was
like one big family.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So it's interesting that you guys were that close and
you had a situation that was I would think a
little odd with the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Then here's a lot of teams apart.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Right, you have a young guy and Tony Easton, who's
you know, sort of trying to make his way and
then the veteran in Steve. They both played, they both
had success, they both contributed to that run. But it
didn't seem to bother the team. And I'm sure there
was lines drawn. I'm sure that you guys had preferences.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Not for me as a wide receiver listening to the
balls the same size, it's made of the same pigskin.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Whoever throws it, just catch it.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So long as I did have a sometimes I did
have a preference in the huddle because I could come
into the huddle. And there were times because we got
to a point later on, not the it was the
year of the Super Bowl. We got to a point
in that season where Raymond would give Steve Grogan permission
(14:15):
to call his own planes. And Steve had the playbook down,
you know, yeah, memorize in his head for some reason,
which was unbelievable to me. So Steve would get in
the huddle and ask us, well, what do you want
to run?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I only want to warn one thing. Steve A
Go just told me.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
He said, don't ask me rban I know, so urban Go,
that's I mean, that's what.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
He would do.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He'd get in the huddle Urban Okay, I'm coming to you,
and it said, go uh, Tony didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But it was a shame. Tony Easton was in that
you know that that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Draft class with all the quarterbacks Jim Kelly and and
Dan Marino. He was drafted before all of those guys,
and then he was the one that did the least
in the league. He got hurt one day in the
game and he he was just never the same after that.
He started, you know, getting skittish in the in the
in the pocket and seeing things that really weren't there
and starting to you know, you see quarterbacks go down
(15:10):
and they're not really getting tackled. He started doing some
of that, and it was it was a shame.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
It was a shame.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
And to build a little bit off of what Paul
was saying is I don't know that this area really
ever embraced him yet. He was a guy that, as
Paul said, had a lot of success. But I think
this region, because of the time they had spent on
some of the other teams that were good Patriot teams
at the time, the area loved Grogan. You know, it's
the quarterback with the neck roll. Yeah, you know, and
you go, well, that's a guy I want to have
(15:36):
on my team.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You're talking about. You know, Tony gets hurt.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Grogan would never get hurt, and if he gets hurt,
the bone better be sticking out. And even if it
was sticking out, they figured he'd still probably play.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, you know, I mean that was the that was
the nature of the team at the time. I remember
when I first came here my rookie year. That was
the year that I missed the most games out of
my whole career was my rookie year, because I thought
I could just come in here and knock people around
like I did in college. But I realized I'm playing
with grown men. So my rookie year I had I
(16:05):
broke a rib or cracked a rib. In preseason, I
fell on the ball, and then once I got healed
from that, I was I think I was blocking, yeah,
and most of the TUPUU ran me over and dislocated
my shoulder. So I missed eight games that season. But
Steve Nelson told me one day my rookie year. He said, listen,
(16:26):
this is how we do things here in New England.
If you get hurt, don't you lay on the field.
You get your butt up and get to the sidelines.
We don't lay on the field. I don't care even
if your leg is broken, if it's hanging off, you
get your behind up and get to the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I'll take care of you.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
That Steve Nelson, Yeah, Steve told me that, and I
remember I carried that. I did that for the rest.
You'll never see me a time where I'm laying on
the field if I was hurt. Don't let them, don't
let them know that you're hurt. No, don't let them show.
That's right, That's.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
What it was. So what was the run?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Like, you know, you guys come together and as much
as what toalking about how tough Steve was, Steve got hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So Tony had to go back in.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
You know what was you know like those games down
the stretch, they all kind of seems like playoff games.
The atmosphere here in the old Foxborough Stadium was was
was electric literally.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Right Robert Weathers down the sideline was the magic.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Like I mean, look again, I say the word organic
because that's how it happened. Nobody talked about it, Nobody
even predicted it. You know, preseason, there wasn't there wasn't
any talk from the media, wasn't any talk in the
in the locker room, there wasn't any talk from the
coaches in terms.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Of, Okay, this year, we're going to the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
We have the talent and we have the ability, or
we're ranked high this year as one of the professional
teams and we're supposed to make it into the playoffs
and get to the super Bowl and win the Super Bowl.
Nobody said anything like that. So as we're playing during
the season, it just kind of organically happened, and we
just happened to catch some win and catch some momentum
and started playing in rhythm and playing together, and man
(18:01):
just turned into one win after another. Even in the
playoffs we had the we were the wild card and
we go out and we win, and eventually when the
AFC Championship in Miami, and it just kind of it
just happened. We were just playing, We weren't planning on it.
We were just going out and doing it, and it
was it was. It was beautiful. I think when we
(18:22):
got to the Super Bowl, we overdid it. I think
we realized we at the Super Bowl and we made
too big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Can hear people say all the time when they're playing games,
particularly big games, just treat it like it's another game.
We didn't treat it like it was another game. We
treated it like.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We were in the Super Bowl. Wow, we're in the
Super Bowl. Okay, we can't do this. We can't do that.
We can't do this. We gotta we.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Gotta come in early, and we gotta have extra meetings,
and we we put way too much emphasis on the
fact that it was Super Bowl. I remember coming out
of the tunnel down to New Orleans when it was
time for us to go out on the field at
the beginning of the game, I literally I was so
nervous and it was so built up. I literally, coming
out of the tunnel had tunnel vision. I couldn't see
(19:05):
anything on my right, on my I was scared to
death that my vision.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wasn't going to come back.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I was literally that upset and that uptight because we
made such a big deal of it that I think
we just came out and played.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We played tight.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
When I go back and watched that game, we made
so many mistakes that we had not made on our
run to the Super Bowl, and had we not made
those mistakes, we would have been in that game easily, easily.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So a couple of weeks ago, this team, this team,
the current Patriots team, the twenty twenty five team won
on the road three straight games, and so there's a
lot of newbies around here going, oh, it's a first
time in franchise history. And there was a time in
nineteen way back in nineteen sixty one where they did
win three games in the road, but old farts like
Paul and I were trying to remember and telling people, Hey,
they won three on the road to get to the
super Bowl in the playoffs, that was a big deal.
(19:54):
You didn't play in the AFC Championship game though, Yeah,
and I think that, you know, as we talked a
little bit of before we rolled, we're talking about some
of the tough times.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That you had.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
You missed that game, and I don't I'm not sure
that a lot of people remember your trivia question. Sadly
in the Super Bowl, who scored the only touchdown in
the Super Bowl for the Patriots that game? It's number
eighty everything, But you missed the Ansty Championship game. It's
one of the great games in franchise history. Yeah, how
much of a regret was that that you missed.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
That big regrets.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It's funny how we as people, not not you, but
like myself, when I look back on my career, or
people will look back over their lives, oftentimes we only
remember the tough times or the bad things or the
negative areas in our lives. When I think about my career,
you know, I go all the way back to college.
(20:43):
I dropped the ball in the Orange Bowl, remember vividly,
and there were people who.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Were saying I dropped it on purpose.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
First of all, anybody who will say that, why would
I want to embarrass myself or national television in front
of everybody in the world by dropping the ball?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Why would I do that to myself? There's there's not
there's not two weeks to go by.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Even still now that I don't think about that past
because I I remember or I carry I guess inside
of me, the negative, the pain.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The hurt.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think it's weird as people we just do that,
and I think about I remember the drop passes, not
all the all the good catches that I made, uh
in my career. So yeah, that particular incident, it was
a it was a dispute family dispute where I ended
up having my finger cut on actually on my way
(21:34):
to the airport to go to that game and ended
up missing the game. Just young and dumb, Just young
and dumb, and I was. There's a saying that God
takes care of babies and fools. I wasn't a baby,
but I was. I was. I was a loose cannon.
I wasn't loose cannon. So thank God for his grace
(21:56):
and his mercy. And it's covering because there there were
incidents in my life when I was younger. Then I
look back and man, I shake my head and I'm like,
what were you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
What were you doing?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Does Pastor Irving Friar again, with the passage of time
and perspective, look back at young Buck Irving Friar and wonder,
how how did I How did I maneuver my way
out of this?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
How am I still?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
How am I in such great shape and able to
at least serve other people and maybe give them some
knowledge about what I went through.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You must look back at that and go, what the
fudge was I thinking at that time? Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I'm grateful because I mean, there are people I was
talking to shout out too. By the way, Station one
the restaurant. You know about Station one, No no, And
Mark Fontaneaux. You don't know about Station one now forty
four School Street in Foxboro. Now it's a restaurant. Okay,
Oh my gosh, shout out to Mark that I went
(22:58):
there last night. Boy, I had what I have, califlower
bang bang cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I had salmon with couscous man pasta.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Let me tell you something. That restaurant is outstanding.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
But I was talking to Mark last night and he
was telling me, you know, Russ Francis.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Passed gosh, one of the all time greats, Terry Glenn
passed away. I didn't know these guys.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I didn't know, and I'm like, what, So I say
that to say this, I'm no different than anybody else.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I've been blessed.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
God has really looked down upon me and smiled because listen,
I wasn't helping God at all when I was younger,
not at all. And obviously I'm still here because there's
a reason, there's a purpose. There's some work that I
have yet to do that still needs to be done,
and God is using me to do that. So it
(23:53):
is said that without a test you have no testimony.
And trust me, I've been a lot in my life
and I can share with people that yes, God will
bring you through.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You asked me.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
How I got through it. It was it was only God.
God did it. It wasn't me. It wasn't me at all.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So you said, you know, you had come from winning,
so you expected to keep winning. Second year, you're in
the super Bowl. Your third year you you go eleven
and five again, win another division. Then you hit the
some of the lean times, we.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Hit rock bottoms. So how difficult was that?
Speaker 4 (24:27):
And I imagine you know, from what you were talking about,
young foolish, irving Fryar maybe didn't handle the losing as
well as maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It was tough.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
There was some lean times there, and we almost kind
of got used to losing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It was almost like an expectation.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I mean, my last couple of years we were like
winning two games and three games during the season, so
it got it was something that we kind of got
used to, and it was very frustrating and it was
a lot of friction. It brought a lot of friction
among the players. It was easy start pointing fingers, it
was easy to not work as hard because there was
(25:06):
no expectation that we were going to be anything, that
we're going to amount to, anything, that we're going to
go anywhere. So that became a dangerous situation.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Now, as I had.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Mentioned earlier, probably about I was nine years here, so
probably about my fifth year is when I had the
thought and wanted to find a way to get out and.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Go somewhere else in play.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Not because I wanted to go somewhere and go to
the Pro Bowl or not because I didn't think we
were throwing me the ball enough, nothing like that. I
just because of these incidents, because of some of the
bad tastes in my mouth, because when I would go
out sometimes I would be reminded of these things. Whether
(25:51):
it was me or whether it's somebody else a fan,
it just for me. It was not a positive area
for me anymore, positive place for me anymore. So, Uh,
we played played the Dolphins twice a year, right play
him up here early in the season, last game of
the season down the Arms Bowl. H Every year I
(26:11):
started going up to Coach Shuler after the game and saying, Hey,
Coach Shuler, how you doing, Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
You gotta get me out of here, and that's what
he would do. He left, just like that. He left.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I did that probably for four years, twice a year,
and then when Parcels came in, he made the statement,
if someone doesn't want to be here, I'm not going
to hold him. I went to Parcels office the next morning.
He said, listen, we want this and this for you
if you can get that from a team. We called
actually almost went to Dallas, but we called Miami. My
agent called Dallas. They were interested, and Miami pulled the trigger.
(26:46):
And so when I got to Miami, Coach Schuli s
I got you out of it did not.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
So there wasn't there was an animosity there.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
It's Parcels coming in and probably wanting his own guys
and giving you an opportunity to people like you if
you look at if you don't want to be here,
which which I understand, will help accommodate you, dude, as
long as it works for us, Like they're just not
going to give somebody away like you in the prime
of his career.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Well, there was no animosity there.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I didn't know Parcels, and I didn't didn't want to
go because he was coming. It was I already wanted
to leave, whether it didn't matter who was coming in.
I had my feel of this area and I needed
felt like I needed to move on and get a
new start for a start.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Paul, I'm gonna let you pick this up in a second,
but I want to go back one thing Irving. As
Paul was talking about some of the down times, the
Super Bowl was, you know, it was the crowning moment.
It was a terrible loss for the franchise, and you
guys got you lost to a very good team, at
least we can say that. But Irving, two days after
the Super Bowl came to Boston Globe Report where your
(27:47):
picture and five of your teammates are on the cover
of the Globe, and I remember people going holy smoke,
and there was you know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
All the time just didn't stop the drug use and
everything like that. Rest in peace. Stephan Starring was part
of that.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
We just you know recently that hurt that team because
there was people you talk about pointing fingers, you know, well,
what was he doing?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Was he involved in it? Was he not involved in it?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Those are tough things for a team to come back from,
isn't it When you have that kind of stuff going
out there.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Let me say why, it was the toughest. First of all,
marijuana's legal now, and that's what it was. There were
some of us at the beginning of the season who
were being tested, and we tested positive for marijuana. Raymond
called Rambery, Raymond Barry called us into his office and
let us know, Okay, listen, you tested positive.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This is what happens. When that happens, We're going to
keep testing you. So on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
So he gave us his word that it was going
to stay silent because it happened at the beginning of
the season when the testing took place. So the problem
with all of that was after the Super Bowl or
during the Super Bowl, when all that took place and
the names came out, Raymond gave that information. So we
(29:04):
were done with Raymond because he abused our trust. He
misused our trust even though yeah, we were doing something
back then that we weren't supposed to be doing. But
I mean now you can look at and say it
was only we, but you know it wasn't anything real harmful.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It was, and we stopped because we were being tested.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
But that was the problem with their whole situation, was
that Raymond gave up for whatever reason, Raymond gave up,
Coach Barry gave up our names to the press, and
it made things worse than what they really were, particularly
the timing of it, right, you know, right after the
Super Bowl and we were we we really had had
off full of him, and that was the beginning of
(29:45):
his downfall with the team because he lost the trust
of the player.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Interesting, so then you lose a lot of veterans that
started to retire as well at that time, you know
Nelson's you know, so you turn it over, you end
up in Miami, and Matt and I love to talk
about the Miami game in relation to the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's almost like the start of.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
The Patriots resurgence too. Opening Day in nineteen ninety four
down in Miami is one of the most memorable games
that no one ever talks about because, first of all,
the Patriots lost in their bodies.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
That's why I don't talk about it. And they've had
a lot of.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Success since, so you're no longer worrying about you know,
random regular season games, but a thirty nine to thirty
five shootout where you at about I don't know, eight
hundred and seventeen yards from Dan moreto Levin.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Right now that you work out the field is in
pristine conditions.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
It was threw us for four hundred Danny throw us
for of four hundred more and you're you're catching touchdowns everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I mean, do you remember that?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I mean, like that, just how hot it was.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And it was. It was a great game.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It was Dan's comeback game because my first year in Miami,
a couple of games into the season, Dan ruptured his achilles, yes,
and so he was down.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So I go down to Miami to play with Dan Marino.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
When he gets hurt, I'm like, what the So this
was Dan's comeback game, and there was a lot of
questions about whether or not he was going to be
able to come back because you know, in training camp
he wasn't wasn't doing too well, wasn't throwing the ball well,
limping around, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Hitching his gidea up and all of that.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So we come into that game and man, one of
the things that we never did while I was here
in New England. When I got to Miami, this was like,
to me, it wasn't fair. When I got to Miami,
go down there and we'll be in a game and
Dan will call a play in the huddle, we'll break
the huddle, line up and maybe the ball is supposed
(31:33):
to be thrown to the opposite side. Dan, we'll see
the coverage and he'll see or notice that someone's one
on one. Say it's me, I'm one on one. He'll
see identify that. He'll give me a hand signal. Now
it's just me and him one on one like practice.
To me, that wasn't fair. I'm like, we never did
that here in New England. In New England my nine
(31:54):
years here, if we called a play in the huddle
and we went to the line of scrimmage and they
were in the proper defense or defense, that wasn't favorable
for us to have success on that particular play.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We just chalked that one up as a loss.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
There were no audibles, there were no changing the plays,
like I mean, it happens all the time now, but
there were no changing of plays at the line of screaming.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It did not happen.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And when I got to Miami and we started doing that,
and I'm like, what, No, one of these guys were
so tough to beat all the time. You're doing this right,
and so yeah, during that game Dan's comeback nineteen ninety four,
the first game against the Patriots, I caught five balls,
two hundred eleven yards and three touchdowns. It was almost
(32:38):
all in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
At halftime, I hadn't caught a pass. It was latter
third quarter and fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I got all that done.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
The last catch was a fourth down catch. I think
there was just under two minutes left in the game.
We didn't have any timeouts left. I believe we were
on the opposing teams on the Patriots forty five yard line.
It was fourth and five, and we if we didn't
get the first down, the game was over.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
It was. It was that kind of shootout. So we
called the trips left and I was on the right
hand side. The ball was supposed to go to one
of the three on the left.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Dan gets him to the line of scrimmage and he
sees that on one on one and he gives me
a go.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
He just reaches down by the side.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
He gives me that five finger go fourth and five boom,
he throws it. I catch it touchdown. That kind that
was the magic of that back then, because he changed
the play right line of scrimmage just with me, he
and I and that was just the magic. And Dan
and I really developed a camaraderie, a a a receiver
(33:42):
quarterback relationship that I never had with any quarterback prior
to that or even after that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Did that?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Was there a sense of satisfaction with that, irving that
you know what you can do? You know you talked
about you know, the Patriots are primarily running team, even
in the eighty five team. You know, it was you know,
it's Mosey, was Craig James, Robert Weathers, all these guys
that could run. It wasn't an aerial attack. You're two
really good outside receivers. When that happens in Miami and
you get to see a healthy Dan Marino was there,
(34:10):
like damn, I knew I could do this, Like this
was I knew I had this kind of game in me.
I just needed an offense maybe coaching staff whatever that
could see what my abilities were. Because you had Pro
Bowl years at that point in time, right, you know,
and you weren't just a Johnny cum leaders you know
you for a while.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Right, But I didn't I didn't pay attention to stats.
It didn't matter to me because I was. I was
never even in the rest. I was never necessarily the
number one guy, right. I played with Mike Rozier. Mike
Rozier was the cat back ball thirty five times a game,
forty times a game.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Uh, and turn of Gill was quarterback. So I was
just always a compliment.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
So I never looked for the for the big accolades,
or I never looked or played in a situation where
I was the guy. So when I got to Miami,
I really never thought that to myself. Oh well, look,
when I finally got to a place I was still learning.
I was just excited about being able to do it
because we never I never did this before. I never
(35:11):
did this at the wide receiver position, and this is,
I guess how it's supposed to be done. Mark Clayton
had gotten released the same year I was going that
I went to Miami. Mark Duper was still there and
we made it through a training camp together and then
he got released after training camp. My first training camp there.
But I learned so much from him just watching him
(35:32):
and talking to him how to be an NFL wide receiver.
Here I'm nine years in the league and I'm learning
this new stuff that I've never so. I was so
excited about learning this new stuff and wasn't really paying
attention to numbers. I really didn't pay attention to numbers.
When I got selected to the Pro Bowl that year,
that was great, But I really never really paid attention
(35:54):
to numbers. It wasn't until the latter part of my
career when I started getting closed to a thousand catch
is you know, my last couple of years Washington when
I started looking at numbers. But even when I was
with Philadelphia, I never, Okay, I gotta catch this amount,
I gotta catch this amount of touchdowns. I got to
score so many touchdowns and so many yards and so
many catches. I never I never did do that going
(36:15):
into a sea.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
So even though you don't follow the stats as much,
you have to look at the game now and say, man,
kind of numbers I could put up with this game?
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Oh well, yeah, now numbers and money money we could
be making. It's it's unbelievable what they're doing now. But
you know what, Yeah, I'm glad that I played when
I played, and I was young back then, because if
I was young now making that kind of money, I'd
kill myself for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I mean I would be did somewhere. Man, there's no
anywhere I'm making But you.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Know you're not talking about stats, but yet your productivity
in your availability, which is a huge deal obviously in
the National Football League.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Did you play till you're thirty eight? Yeah, you know, yes,
and you.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Were a productive wider receiver, a guy who relied on
his legs, route running and stuff like that. You were
a real threatned filler, you were a real threat. And
watching there has to be a sense of pride, like, man,
I you know, I had a really good NFL career
and I was productive right to the end.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yes, there's some satisfaction in that, but there's also because
we talked earlier about the Hall of Fame was Stanley Morgan, Yeah,
and his stats and I wish my stats.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Were a little bit higher or a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Because yeah, it's it's an honor to make it into
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I've been answered, Yeah, of course, that's an honesty, and I.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Wish there were some times I wish I could have
put it added a few more, even played another year
when I when I was when I finally retired from
from Washington, I got a call from John Gruden now
in California to go with the Raiders. He was at
the Raiders halfway through the next season. I should have
went out and played because I still had more left
in the tank and I probably could have got that,
(38:00):
you know, fifty sixty catches and got nine hundred thousand catches.
So yeah, I look back, and you know, I didn't
retire because I couldn't play anymore. I retired for some
family reasons, uh. And I retired because I was struggling
with what I needed to do during the off season
to get ready for the season. You know, there's a
(38:21):
lot of work that goes on least. I did a
lot of work on the track, a lot of work
in the weight room to get ready for the season,
and I was starting to struggle to do that. Not
that I couldn't do it, just mentally and emotionally commit
the commitment yes to get it done. So I started.
I began to struggle with that. So it made it
a little bit easier to say no to Gruden. But
(38:43):
I look back now, I'm like, man, I could have
gone there and just played a year or two, made
a few more dollars, and got a few more catches.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
That Raiders were good to maybe, yeah, they were.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
All he wanted me to do was come there and
catch punts. He said, just come and catch punts.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Just fair catch it. That's all.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I don't have anybody they can catch punts right your
full you know, veterans salary whatever it's minimum, And it
was halfway through the season. I'm like, man, I think
the salary for veterans at that point was like seven fifty,
So I could have went halfway.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Through the season made another seven fifty.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And but yeah, I look back and there are times
that I wish that I had stayed maybe a little
bit longer or done a little bit more, because I've
been on the ballot several times. And that's that's torture, man,
That's it's torture to get on the ballot and then
they just not vote you in. Just why don't they
(39:33):
just wait until they picked the guys that are going
in the Hall of Fame then just announce that. Stop
announcing guys on the ballot, and then you eliminate them
year in, the year out.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
It's like torture.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Do you follow much of the league now? In the
Patriots success.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And what I try to but again, I keep getting
pulled back to the church. It all happens on Sundays.
So but I you know, I'm vaguely familiar.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Pages are doing well right now.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, but maybe to jump a little bit on what
Paul saying, this is the last one for me, Irving
is when you played here in New England, there's a
lot of people who joke about, you know, the old
high school stadium, you know, the Walker Room situation, everything
like that. When you come here and see what this is,
because it's crazy and.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
What they did, you know for that stretch.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Again, there's a lot of people, younger people who think
that the franchise just start at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
But there are standard bearers.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Like yourself, you know, the John Hannahs, the Steve Nelson's,
the Steve Grogan's, the Stanley Morgan's that played before that.
And when you see what this franchise has become, you know,
and not being around here, it must be eye opening
for you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Oh, I got lost trying to drop trying to drive
up here.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
It's a monstrosity.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
It's it's I mean, we used to have I was
trying to I was showing my wife last night when
we were going to Station one. We we used to
have to leave the stadium because all that was here
was the stadium and the racetrack on the other side.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's all it was here. There was nothing else around here.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
We would leave the stadium every day and drive down
the street, make that right and go to our field.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's like two miles away. We had to drive to
a field where we practiced.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
There was no feel here for us to practice and
then drive.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Back after practice.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And I think they may have put some kind of
other field in there and built houses and stuff around it,
but I think that field still there based on what
I saw last night.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Is leagues.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
When I first started, I used to have to make
that drive to watch practice.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, some power. I think some little little football league
is there. Yes, is that the same what the same
field is? Okay, I saw it last night, But yeah,
it's just it's just I look and see now what
is going on, what mister Craft has done, and it's
just absolutely and when you compare it to other teams they're.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Doing just it's the best.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
It's absolutely incredible what he's been able to do and
how football has blessed me. The Craft, it's it's uh,
it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal, it really is. And it's uh,
it's just from where.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It came from. And when I got here from Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, see, I was Nebraska had the at that time
that I was playing in, Nebraska had the largest weight
room in the world. So when I came here, I'm like,
is this what professional football is?
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It was a big step backwards, right.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
You know when it came to locker room and facility
weight the weight room was really really small. It was
it was it was an eye opener. We had to
get in the car and go to practice. Go and
get in the car and go to practice.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
What so crazy?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, it's hats off to mister Craft though. They they
have no reason to lose games now with all the
all these amenities and all of this style and all
of the they make it as they give them every
reason not to make any excuses and to be successful.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Thank you very much for your time today. Really was great.
Enjoyed myself. I'm enjoying myself.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
I think fans should go back if they haven't already.
Take a look at number eighty in the red. Take
a look at number eighty in the red.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Could play wide receiver, absolutely great studio too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thanks, I have a studio in my house, not like this,
but I got I'm taking notes.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There you go, Irving Friar guesst Irving, thank you very
much for joining us. I appreciate it. Thank you.
And welcome to another edition of Pats from the Past podcast.
It's Matt Smith alongside with Paul Parlow, and we are
really pleased to be joined by number eighty in your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today,
the great and I'm not we we over use the
word great a lot of times. We're not overusing the
word using it today is Irving, Friar, Irving, thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Really appreciate it, Matt. It's it's my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I don't get a chance to come back this way
too often when I'm here to watch the game. Today,
I'm here to cheer the Patriots on. I'm also get
a chance to see my son and my grandchildren because
they're up here in Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's great. Is that the impetus for coming back here?
Because it's you're I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Just came back just to be honest you no, no, right, right,
I mean's like, what was what was your impetus?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Because it's great when some of the people like, there's
a lot of people irving in this area, and understandably so.
Think the franchise started in two thousand and one, and
that's not the case. You know, so when somebody like
you comes back here, you're literally franchised royalty.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What was the impetus to come back here?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, the impetus to come back was an email that
I received from the Patriots organization inviting some of the alumni.
Boss they put together an opportunity, a program or an event.
I guess you could call either one of those for
us to come back and have a space for us
where we can bring a couple of guests. And I'm
real still good friends with Tony Collins. We stay in
(01:22):
contact with one another. And he came several weeks ago,
and I think he brought like nineteen cats with him
and they all had Tony Collins jerseys on and I
saw that he posted it. I saw it. I called
him and he told me about it. So I responded
to the email, got in touch with Jeff, talked with Kate,
and here I am.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
That's great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, So first of all, what are you up to now?
Before we get into memory lane? You know, what have
you been? I mean, you look like you could still play.
Matt and I were joking with you with ten start,
for sure, he looked like you could get out and
jump in the X spot right now and run ten
go routes.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No problem.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I still do workout, and I work hard, So
I'm working hard.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I listen. I had some surgery a little while ago.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I had a stone in my bladder, and yeah, that
was a bad experience. So I'm doing the best that
I can to stay as healthy as I can, and
part of that is working out. But what I'm doing now,
I've been doing the past what twenty five years now almost,
and that's I'm still pastoring.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I'm actually pastoring at two different churches now, but I'm
still doing that. You can't. I can't get away from it.
I can't run from it. I tried several times, trust me,
and it is what it is. It's a calling that
you become a prisoner too, as the Apostle Paul says
in scripture, and you can't get away from it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
I love loving people, and we need love more than
anything in today's world.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You know it better than I do. So I do podcasts.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I do some analysis with the Egos down in Philadelphia,
but most of my work, most of my attention, most
of my focus is with the church and when he sold.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So let's go down memory lane, Irving, And I don't
think a lot of younger people would remember. And you're
you're in a fraternity or that's pretty select. There aren't
many wide receivers that were selected number one overall in
the draft. I know Kishan's one of them because I
can remember that that was after me, right, and there's
another gentleman whose name I can't remember, I think from
(03:26):
the sixties. Yeah, you're the number one pick in the NFL.
What was that like for a kid coming out of
Nebraska from South Jersey. What was that like at the
time to be the number one pick overall?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, it wasn't the pomping circumstance that you have now
with all of the celebration and you know, the you
know they have they sell tickets to the draft now
and it's thousands of people that show up in whatever
city they're having the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It wasn't like that when I was drafted.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I actually signed my contract before the draft, and uh,
probably by the time the draft came, I had spent
like twenty five grand. But the day of the they
sent a car down to New Jersey picked myself and
my mother up. We went to the draft, they announced it,
we did an interview, we got back in the car
and went back home.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
That was as exciting as it was believing.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
But there's something interesting that I kind of just realized
maybe several months ago. I was doing an interview and
began to talk about it and thinking about being drafted
as the number one pick. But I was drafted as
a wide receiver. I was a wing back in college right,
So as a wing back in college, my one on
ones in practice were in a three point stance, blocking
(04:35):
down on defensive ends or blocking linebackers. My one on
ones in practice never at Nebraska were me standing up
or even out split out running routes against the defensive back.
So the first time I had ever run a route
against the defensive back standing up was my first day
in training camp. I had never done that before, and man,
(04:59):
I got my behind quite a few times because Raymond
Claybourne and Rinning the Pitt, those guys did not play.
They were great cornerbacks and I had to face them
every day. So it was a learning curve for me
that was pretty pretty long. It took me a minute
to get my feet up underneath me to learn how
to be a wide receiver, and we didn't throw the
ball that.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Much and I really didn't become, I.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Feel, a good receiver until I went to Miami where
they focused on through it.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So what was your experience, Like, you mentioned the guys
on the defensive side, but you had a pretty good
wide receiver on the other side and stands in the morning. Yes,
So what was it like sort of trying to pick
his brain a little bit. Well, here's the story behind Stanley. So, yes,
I come in, I'm gonna wing back.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing
at the wide receiver position.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So I know Stanley's here. I've heard of Stanley.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I've actually watched them several times in games, and so
I'm figuring I'm going to get some tootelitch from him
and he's going to help me out. Well, when I
got drafted, Ron Myers was the head coach. Ron Myers
was falling out with Stanley Morgan. They both were having
a falling out. I think Ron was trying to get
rid of Stanley. So when I came in, Ron put
me at the same position as Stanley. So I was
(06:11):
a threat to Stanley. He and Ron were going at it.
I'm on the same side, so Stanley didn't talk to me.
He didn't say a word to me. Halfway through my
rookie year, Ron Myers gets fired, Raymond Barry comes in.
Raymond Barry takes me and he puts me on the
other side of Stanley. So now Stanley and I are
playing at the same time, rather than me playing and
(06:31):
Stanley on the side, or Stanley playing and me on
the sideline. But Stanley, the damage had already been done.
So Stanley still wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Talking to me.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So my whole rookie year, and I don't blame him,
but my whole rookie year, Stanley didn't say a word
to me, not one single word, because I was a
threat to him.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Matt, we're not even ten minutes in and you're you're
sort of finding out why the Patriots struggled so much.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Chapter Yeah, from Raymond, from Ron Myers to Raymond Barry
to Rod Russ.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Dick McPherson was one right after the year. So how
did that I did that ice ever get broken? Irving?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It did get broken, probably more so the latter part
of my second season. You know, we had that big
run and we went to the Super Bowl and lost
the Super Bowl. So that year, yeah, things kind of
came together for us, but it was again, most of
the damage that I was doing was on special team,
sure pump returner, sure catch if you passed it, but
Stanley was was the go to guy. So most of
(07:27):
my learning came from just watching Stanley. We really never
did sit down and him instruct me or teach me
or help me in that manner. Most of it came
for me just watching him and learning that way going
out and trying to do it myself.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Can you appreciate with the passage of time and perspective
that we all have as we get older and everything
like that. Stanley's a big deal around here Irving, especially
from the fact that the Hall of Fame class just
was announced for a lot of different things, coaches with Belichick,
owners with craft players, and the Veterans Committee.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think that's the best way of that because said and.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Steely Morgan's on there, and there's a lot of people
in this area Irving that really believe like his yards
per catch is.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Insane, right right, And there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Of people around here that go, yeah, why not Stealley
Morgan in the Hall of Fame. Are you able to
look back and see what he was able to do
and say that cat can play? Oh yeah, Stanley could play.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And Stanley wasn't a big guy, right, you know he
was he was a burner, and but he was a
tough guy. He was smart, he was very elusive, and
he could catch the boy really good hands. So yes,
if anybody deserves to be in the h o f
the Hall of Fame, Stanley does. And there are guys
in that position, the wide receiver wide receiver position that
(08:40):
were in the Hall of Fame whose numbers don't match
Stanley absolutely or mine right right, So for that matter,
I actually being one.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Now, well, hey, this is a good platform. Let's get it.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
As you know, we wanted to ask you and you
sort of prefaced it a little bit, and you know,
the coaching turnover, but specifically Ron Meyer to ray and
what kind of an impact that had on you because
it seened from afar You're talking about all these players,
there was individual talent there. It seemed like Ray Berry
got the most out of it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I didn't get a chance to learn who Ron Mars
was as a coach because.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
He wasn't here that long, and so I wasn't in
his presence that long. But when Raymond came, we knew
that he was a Hall of Famer. We knew that
he was a historian in terms of football. We knew
that at least he knew how to play football. I
don't know if he what kind of coach he's going
to be, but we knew that he knew about the game.
So we man we gravitated to him, particularly the wide receivers.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
We gravitated to him as much as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
He taught me things, just not necessarily on the field,
but just how to strengthen my hands and how to
catch the ball better, what kind of drills to do,
because these are things that he did that granted him
the Hall of Fame. So we gleaned to those things
and we learned from them, and I I did those
kinds of things and carried some of those habits all
(10:03):
the way through my career.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
You mentioned a coach or coaches, and I'm gonna throw
a coach by it that and ask you what you
thought about him. Who was your special team's coach at
the time. That's Sante scar neck.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you just you know what did Scar?
What do you think a Scar? Listen, Scar was the best.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I was here a couple of I think a couple
of years ago doing an autograph session.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
I don't think Scar recognized.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Me, but back then he was the best. And I
know he became a line coach. Uh later on uh
through that Super Bowl, the Super Bowl run absolute.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But Dante, listen, how did he help you because you
were a Pro Bowl returner in your second year in
the league.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
He helped me because I mean, obviously I did punt
returns in college. But the way we did things here
and the way Dante set it up, there was only
one guy I had to make miss, and that was
the center. So if the center got down the field
in time for me to pick him up and see him,
he was only when I had to miss. Everybody else
(11:01):
was taken care of, and we do right or left returns.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
We never did anything up the middle.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And he just understood my weaknesses or my strengths, whatever
they were, and allowed me to do what I did
the best, which was turned the corner and get up
the field.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And man, we had a great time. I had a
great time.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
He was very, very intricate in how he put things
together special teams wise, and I had a lot of
confidence back there because I knew he knew what he
was doing and we were effective on special teams.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, I know you were really young in your career,
but could you notice much of a difference, you know,
from that eighty four and then Myra leaves Berry comes in,
but then eighty five comes did you notice much of
a difference. Did you sense that something special could could
be happening with that team?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
No, I knew, you know.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
I came from Nebraska. We were always winning. We never
won the championship, but we were always in the race.
So I came from a pro where the expectation was
always that we're going to be somewhere in the playoffs
or somewhere at the top at the end of the season.
And when I got here, or the year before I
got here, I think the Patriots were the number one
(12:14):
rushing team in the league.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It was Craig James and Tony Collins, Robert Weathers.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
So when I got here, my expectation was and even
after we lost the Super Bowl, my expectation was, Okay,
we're going to do this every year. The year we
went to the Super Bowl, though, it just clicked for us,
meaning we became a family. And I can say that
because all of the other teams that I played on,
including the Patriots teams Miami, Philadelphia and even Washington, we
(12:44):
never got close like that. Again, we never became a family.
I still the guys that I stay in contact with
the most are from those eighties teams and the Patriots
that I played with, telling because we just we became
a family, became really really close. Did why that happened?
How that happened? I'm not so sure if it was
Raymond Barry or if it was just something that was
(13:06):
organic that just happened. But that's why things came together
like that. We cared about one another. We hung out
with one another, We went over one another's houses and
spent time.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
We knew one.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Another's wives and children, and it was just it was
like one big family.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
So it's interesting that you guys were that close and
you had a situation that was I would think a
little odd with the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Then here's a lot of teams apart.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Right, you have a young guy and Tony Easton, who's
you know, sort of trying to make his way and
then the veteran in Steve. They both played, they both
had success, they both contributed to that run. But it
didn't seem to bother the team. And I'm sure there
was lines drawn. I'm sure that you guys had preferences.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Not for me as a wide receiver listening to the
balls the same size, it's made of the same pigskin.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Whoever throws it, just catch it.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
So long as I did have a sometimes I did
have a preference in the huddle because I could come
into the huddle. And there were times because we got
to a point later on, not the it was the
year of the Super Bowl. We got to a point
in that season where Raymond would give Steve Grogan permission
(14:15):
to call his own planes. And Steve had the playbook down,
you know, yeah, memorize in his head for some reason,
which was unbelievable to me. So Steve would get in
the huddle and ask us, well, what do you want
to run?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I only want to warn one thing. Steve A
Go just told me.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
He said, don't ask me rban I know, so urban Go,
that's I mean, that's what.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
He would do.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
He'd get in the huddle Urban Okay, I'm coming to you,
and it said, go uh, Tony didn't do that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But it was a shame. Tony Easton was in that
you know that that.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Draft class with all the quarterbacks Jim Kelly and and
Dan Marino. He was drafted before all of those guys,
and then he was the one that did the least
in the league. He got hurt one day in the
game and he he was just never the same after that.
He started, you know, getting skittish in the in the
in the pocket and seeing things that really weren't there
and starting to you know, you see quarterbacks go down
(15:10):
and they're not really getting tackled. He started doing some
of that, and it was it was a shame.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
It was a shame.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
And to build a little bit off of what Paul
was saying is I don't know that this area really
ever embraced him yet. He was a guy that, as
Paul said, had a lot of success. But I think
this region, because of the time they had spent on
some of the other teams that were good Patriot teams
at the time, the area loved Grogan. You know, it's
the quarterback with the neck roll. Yeah, you know, and
you go, well, that's a guy I want to have
(15:36):
on my team.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
You're talking about. You know, Tony gets hurt.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Grogan would never get hurt, and if he gets hurt,
the bone better be sticking out. And even if it
was sticking out, they figured he'd still probably play.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, you know, I mean that was the that was
the nature of the team at the time. I remember
when I first came here my rookie year. That was
the year that I missed the most games out of
my whole career was my rookie year, because I thought
I could just come in here and knock people around
like I did in college. But I realized I'm playing
with grown men. So my rookie year I had I
(16:05):
broke a rib or cracked a rib. In preseason, I
fell on the ball, and then once I got healed
from that, I was I think I was blocking, yeah,
and most of the TUPUU ran me over and dislocated
my shoulder. So I missed eight games that season. But
Steve Nelson told me one day my rookie year. He said, listen,
(16:26):
this is how we do things here in New England.
If you get hurt, don't you lay on the field.
You get your butt up and get to the sidelines.
We don't lay on the field. I don't care even
if your leg is broken, if it's hanging off, you
get your behind up and get to the sidelines.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I'll take care of you.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
That Steve Nelson, Yeah, Steve told me that, and I
remember I carried that. I did that for the rest.
You'll never see me a time where I'm laying on
the field if I was hurt. Don't let them, don't
let them know that you're hurt. No, don't let them show.
That's right, That's.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
What it was. So what was the run?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Like, you know, you guys come together and as much
as what toalking about how tough Steve was, Steve got hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
So Tony had to go back in.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
You know what was you know like those games down
the stretch, they all kind of seems like playoff games.
The atmosphere here in the old Foxborough Stadium was was
was electric literally.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Right Robert Weathers down the sideline was the magic.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Like I mean, look again, I say the word organic
because that's how it happened. Nobody talked about it, Nobody
even predicted it. You know, preseason, there wasn't there wasn't
any talk from the media, wasn't any talk in the
in the locker room, there wasn't any talk from the
coaches in terms.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Of, Okay, this year, we're going to the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
We have the talent and we have the ability, or
we're ranked high this year as one of the professional
teams and we're supposed to make it into the playoffs
and get to the super Bowl and win the Super Bowl.
Nobody said anything like that. So as we're playing during
the season, it just kind of organically happened, and we
just happened to catch some win and catch some momentum
and started playing in rhythm and playing together, and man
(18:01):
just turned into one win after another. Even in the
playoffs we had the we were the wild card and
we go out and we win, and eventually when the
AFC Championship in Miami, and it just kind of it
just happened. We were just playing, We weren't planning on it.
We were just going out and doing it, and it
was it was. It was beautiful. I think when we
(18:22):
got to the Super Bowl, we overdid it. I think
we realized we at the Super Bowl and we made
too big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You don't.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Can hear people say all the time when they're playing games,
particularly big games, just treat it like it's another game.
We didn't treat it like it was another game. We
treated it like.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
We were in the Super Bowl. Wow, we're in the
Super Bowl. Okay, we can't do this. We can't do that.
We can't do this. We gotta we.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Gotta come in early, and we gotta have extra meetings,
and we we put way too much emphasis on the
fact that it was Super Bowl. I remember coming out
of the tunnel down to New Orleans when it was
time for us to go out on the field at
the beginning of the game, I literally I was so
nervous and it was so built up. I literally, coming
out of the tunnel had tunnel vision. I couldn't see
(19:05):
anything on my right, on my I was scared to
death that my vision.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Wasn't going to come back.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I was literally that upset and that uptight because we
made such a big deal of it that I think
we just came out and played.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We played tight.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
When I go back and watched that game, we made
so many mistakes that we had not made on our
run to the Super Bowl, and had we not made
those mistakes, we would have been in that game easily, easily.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So a couple of weeks ago, this team, this team,
the current Patriots team, the twenty twenty five team won
on the road three straight games, and so there's a
lot of newbies around here going, oh, it's a first
time in franchise history. And there was a time in
nineteen way back in nineteen sixty one where they did
win three games in the road, but old farts like
Paul and I were trying to remember and telling people, Hey,
they won three on the road to get to the
super Bowl in the playoffs, that was a big deal.
(19:54):
You didn't play in the AFC Championship game though, Yeah,
and I think that, you know, as we talked a
little bit of before we rolled, we're talking about some
of the tough times.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
That you had.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
You missed that game, and I don't I'm not sure
that a lot of people remember your trivia question. Sadly
in the Super Bowl, who scored the only touchdown in
the Super Bowl for the Patriots that game? It's number
eighty everything, But you missed the Ansty Championship game. It's
one of the great games in franchise history. Yeah, how
much of a regret was that that you missed.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
That big regrets.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
It's funny how we as people, not not you, but
like myself, when I look back on my career, or
people will look back over their lives, oftentimes we only
remember the tough times or the bad things or the
negative areas in our lives. When I think about my career,
you know, I go all the way back to college.
(20:43):
I dropped the ball in the Orange Bowl, remember vividly,
and there were people who.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Were saying I dropped it on purpose.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
First of all, anybody who will say that, why would
I want to embarrass myself or national television in front
of everybody in the world by dropping the ball?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Why would I do that to myself? There's there's not
there's not two weeks to go by.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Even still now that I don't think about that past
because I I remember or I carry I guess inside
of me, the negative, the pain.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
The hurt.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think it's weird as people we just do that,
and I think about I remember the drop passes, not
all the all the good catches that I made, uh
in my career. So yeah, that particular incident, it was
a it was a dispute family dispute where I ended
up having my finger cut on actually on my way
(21:34):
to the airport to go to that game and ended
up missing the game. Just young and dumb, Just young
and dumb, and I was. There's a saying that God
takes care of babies and fools. I wasn't a baby,
but I was. I was. I was a loose cannon.
I wasn't loose cannon. So thank God for his grace
(21:56):
and his mercy. And it's covering because there there were
incidents in my life when I was younger. Then I
look back and man, I shake my head and I'm like,
what were you thinking about?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
What were you doing?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Does Pastor Irving Friar again, with the passage of time
and perspective, look back at young Buck Irving Friar and wonder,
how how did I How did I maneuver my way
out of this?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
How am I still?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
How am I in such great shape and able to
at least serve other people and maybe give them some
knowledge about what I went through.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
You must look back at that and go, what the
fudge was I thinking at that time? Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I'm grateful because I mean, there are people I was
talking to shout out too. By the way, Station one
the restaurant. You know about Station one, No no, And
Mark Fontaneaux. You don't know about Station one now forty
four School Street in Foxboro. Now it's a restaurant. Okay,
Oh my gosh, shout out to Mark that I went
(22:58):
there last night. Boy, I had what I have, califlower
bang bang cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I had salmon with couscous man pasta.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Like that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Let me tell you something. That restaurant is outstanding.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
But I was talking to Mark last night and he
was telling me, you know, Russ Francis.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Passed gosh, one of the all time greats, Terry Glenn
passed away. I didn't know these guys.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I didn't know, and I'm like, what, So I say
that to say this, I'm no different than anybody else.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I've been blessed.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
God has really looked down upon me and smiled because listen,
I wasn't helping God at all when I was younger,
not at all. And obviously I'm still here because there's
a reason, there's a purpose. There's some work that I
have yet to do that still needs to be done,
and God is using me to do that. So it
(23:53):
is said that without a test you have no testimony.
And trust me, I've been a lot in my life
and I can share with people that yes, God will
bring you through.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
You asked me.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
How I got through it. It was it was only God.
God did it. It wasn't me. It wasn't me at all.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So you said, you know, you had come from winning,
so you expected to keep winning. Second year, you're in
the super Bowl. Your third year you you go eleven
and five again, win another division. Then you hit the
some of the lean times, we.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Hit rock bottoms. So how difficult was that?
Speaker 4 (24:27):
And I imagine you know, from what you were talking about,
young foolish, irving Fryar maybe didn't handle the losing as
well as maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It was tough.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
There was some lean times there, and we almost kind
of got used to losing.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It was almost like an expectation.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I mean, my last couple of years we were like
winning two games and three games during the season, so
it got it was something that we kind of got
used to, and it was very frustrating and it was
a lot of friction. It brought a lot of friction
among the players. It was easy start pointing fingers, it
was easy to not work as hard because there was
(25:06):
no expectation that we were going to be anything, that
we're going to amount to, anything, that we're going to
go anywhere. So that became a dangerous situation.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Now, as I had.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Mentioned earlier, probably about I was nine years here, so
probably about my fifth year is when I had the
thought and wanted to find a way to get out and.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Go somewhere else in play.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Not because I wanted to go somewhere and go to
the Pro Bowl or not because I didn't think we
were throwing me the ball enough, nothing like that. I
just because of these incidents, because of some of the
bad tastes in my mouth, because when I would go
out sometimes I would be reminded of these things. Whether
(25:51):
it was me or whether it's somebody else a fan,
it just for me. It was not a positive area
for me anymore, positive place for me anymore. So, Uh,
we played played the Dolphins twice a year, right play
him up here early in the season, last game of
the season down the Arms Bowl. H Every year I
(26:11):
started going up to Coach Shuler after the game and saying, Hey,
Coach Shuler, how you doing, Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
You gotta get me out of here, and that's what
he would do. He left, just like that. He left.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I did that probably for four years, twice a year,
and then when Parcels came in, he made the statement,
if someone doesn't want to be here, I'm not going
to hold him. I went to Parcels office the next morning.
He said, listen, we want this and this for you
if you can get that from a team. We called
actually almost went to Dallas, but we called Miami. My
agent called Dallas. They were interested, and Miami pulled the trigger.
(26:46):
And so when I got to Miami, Coach Schuli s
I got you out of it did not.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
So there wasn't there was an animosity there.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
It's Parcels coming in and probably wanting his own guys
and giving you an opportunity to people like you if
you look at if you don't want to be here,
which which I understand, will help accommodate you, dude, as
long as it works for us, Like they're just not
going to give somebody away like you in the prime
of his career.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Well, there was no animosity there.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I didn't know Parcels, and I didn't didn't want to
go because he was coming. It was I already wanted
to leave, whether it didn't matter who was coming in.
I had my feel of this area and I needed
felt like I needed to move on and get a
new start for a start.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Paul, I'm gonna let you pick this up in a second,
but I want to go back one thing Irving. As
Paul was talking about some of the down times, the
Super Bowl was, you know, it was the crowning moment.
It was a terrible loss for the franchise, and you
guys got you lost to a very good team, at
least we can say that. But Irving, two days after
the Super Bowl came to Boston Globe Report where your
(27:47):
picture and five of your teammates are on the cover
of the Globe, and I remember people going holy smoke,
and there was you know.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
All the time just didn't stop the drug use and
everything like that. Rest in peace. Stephan Starring was part
of that.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
We just you know recently that hurt that team because
there was people you talk about pointing fingers, you know, well,
what was he doing?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Was he involved in it? Was he not involved in it?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Those are tough things for a team to come back from,
isn't it When you have that kind of stuff going
out there.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Let me say why, it was the toughest. First of all,
marijuana's legal now, and that's what it was. There were
some of us at the beginning of the season who
were being tested, and we tested positive for marijuana. Raymond
called Rambery, Raymond Barry called us into his office and
let us know, Okay, listen, you tested positive.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This is what happens. When that happens, We're going to
keep testing you. So on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
So he gave us his word that it was going
to stay silent because it happened at the beginning of
the season when the testing took place. So the problem
with all of that was after the Super Bowl or
during the Super Bowl, when all that took place and
the names came out, Raymond gave that information. So we
(29:04):
were done with Raymond because he abused our trust. He
misused our trust even though yeah, we were doing something
back then that we weren't supposed to be doing. But
I mean now you can look at and say it
was only we, but you know it wasn't anything real harmful.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It was, and we stopped because we were being tested.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
But that was the problem with their whole situation, was
that Raymond gave up for whatever reason, Raymond gave up,
Coach Barry gave up our names to the press, and
it made things worse than what they really were, particularly
the timing of it, right, you know, right after the
Super Bowl and we were we we really had had
off full of him, and that was the beginning of
(29:45):
his downfall with the team because he lost the trust
of the player.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Interesting, so then you lose a lot of veterans that
started to retire as well at that time, you know
Nelson's you know, so you turn it over, you end
up in Miami, and Matt and I love to talk
about the Miami game in relation to the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
It's almost like the start of.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
The Patriots resurgence too. Opening Day in nineteen ninety four
down in Miami is one of the most memorable games
that no one ever talks about because, first of all,
the Patriots lost in their bodies.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
That's why I don't talk about it. And they've had
a lot of.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Success since, so you're no longer worrying about you know,
random regular season games, but a thirty nine to thirty
five shootout where you at about I don't know, eight
hundred and seventeen yards from Dan moreto Levin.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Right now that you work out the field is in
pristine conditions.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
It was threw us for four hundred Danny throw us
for of four hundred more and you're you're catching touchdowns everywhere.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I mean, do you remember that?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I mean, like that, just how hot it was.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And it was. It was a great game.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
It was Dan's comeback game because my first year in Miami,
a couple of games into the season, Dan ruptured his achilles, yes,
and so he was down.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So I go down to Miami to play with Dan Marino.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
When he gets hurt, I'm like, what the So this
was Dan's comeback game, and there was a lot of
questions about whether or not he was going to be
able to come back because you know, in training camp
he wasn't wasn't doing too well, wasn't throwing the ball well,
limping around, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Hitching his gidea up and all of that.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
So we come into that game and man, one of
the things that we never did while I was here
in New England. When I got to Miami, this was like,
to me, it wasn't fair. When I got to Miami,
go down there and we'll be in a game and
Dan will call a play in the huddle, we'll break
the huddle, line up and maybe the ball is supposed
(31:33):
to be thrown to the opposite side. Dan, we'll see
the coverage and he'll see or notice that someone's one
on one. Say it's me, I'm one on one. He'll
see identify that. He'll give me a hand signal. Now
it's just me and him one on one like practice.
To me, that wasn't fair. I'm like, we never did
that here in New England. In New England my nine
(31:54):
years here, if we called a play in the huddle
and we went to the line of scrimmage and they
were in the proper defense or defense, that wasn't favorable
for us to have success on that particular play.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We just chalked that one up as a loss.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
There were no audibles, there were no changing the plays,
like I mean, it happens all the time now, but
there were no changing of plays at the line of screaming.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
It did not happen.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And when I got to Miami and we started doing that,
and I'm like, what, No, one of these guys were
so tough to beat all the time. You're doing this right,
and so yeah, during that game Dan's comeback nineteen ninety four,
the first game against the Patriots, I caught five balls,
two hundred eleven yards and three touchdowns. It was almost
(32:38):
all in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
At halftime, I hadn't caught a pass. It was latter
third quarter and fourth quarter.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
I got all that done.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
The last catch was a fourth down catch. I think
there was just under two minutes left in the game.
We didn't have any timeouts left. I believe we were
on the opposing teams on the Patriots forty five yard line.
It was fourth and five, and we if we didn't
get the first down, the game was over.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
It was. It was that kind of shootout. So we
called the trips left and I was on the right
hand side. The ball was supposed to go to one
of the three on the left.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Dan gets him to the line of scrimmage and he
sees that on one on one and he gives me
a go.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
He just reaches down by the side.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
He gives me that five finger go fourth and five boom,
he throws it. I catch it touchdown. That kind that
was the magic of that back then, because he changed
the play right line of scrimmage just with me, he
and I and that was just the magic. And Dan
and I really developed a camaraderie, a a a receiver
(33:42):
quarterback relationship that I never had with any quarterback prior
to that or even after that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Did that?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Was there a sense of satisfaction with that, irving that
you know what you can do? You know you talked
about you know, the Patriots are primarily running team, even
in the eighty five team. You know, it was you know,
it's Mosey, was Craig James, Robert Weathers, all these guys
that could run. It wasn't an aerial attack. You're two
really good outside receivers. When that happens in Miami and
you get to see a healthy Dan Marino was there,
(34:10):
like damn, I knew I could do this, Like this
was I knew I had this kind of game in me.
I just needed an offense maybe coaching staff whatever that
could see what my abilities were. Because you had Pro
Bowl years at that point in time, right, you know,
and you weren't just a Johnny cum leaders you know
you for a while.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Right, But I didn't I didn't pay attention to stats.
It didn't matter to me because I was. I was
never even in the rest. I was never necessarily the
number one guy, right. I played with Mike Rozier. Mike
Rozier was the cat back ball thirty five times a game,
forty times a game.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Uh, and turn of Gill was quarterback. So I was
just always a compliment.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
So I never looked for the for the big accolades,
or I never looked or played in a situation where
I was the guy. So when I got to Miami,
I really never thought that to myself. Oh well, look,
when I finally got to a place I was still learning.
I was just excited about being able to do it
because we never I never did this before. I never
(35:11):
did this at the wide receiver position, and this is,
I guess how it's supposed to be done. Mark Clayton
had gotten released the same year I was going that
I went to Miami. Mark Duper was still there and
we made it through a training camp together and then
he got released after training camp. My first training camp there.
But I learned so much from him just watching him
(35:32):
and talking to him how to be an NFL wide receiver.
Here I'm nine years in the league and I'm learning
this new stuff that I've never so. I was so
excited about learning this new stuff and wasn't really paying
attention to numbers. I really didn't pay attention to numbers.
When I got selected to the Pro Bowl that year,
that was great, But I really never really paid attention
(35:54):
to numbers. It wasn't until the latter part of my
career when I started getting closed to a thousand catch
is you know, my last couple of years Washington when
I started looking at numbers. But even when I was
with Philadelphia, I never, Okay, I gotta catch this amount,
I gotta catch this amount of touchdowns. I got to
score so many touchdowns and so many yards and so
many catches. I never I never did do that going
(36:15):
into a sea.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
So even though you don't follow the stats as much,
you have to look at the game now and say, man,
kind of numbers I could put up with this game?
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Oh well, yeah, now numbers and money money we could
be making. It's it's unbelievable what they're doing now. But
you know what, Yeah, I'm glad that I played when
I played, and I was young back then, because if
I was young now making that kind of money, I'd
kill myself for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I mean I would be did somewhere. Man, there's no
anywhere I'm making But you.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Know you're not talking about stats, but yet your productivity
in your availability, which is a huge deal obviously in
the National Football League.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Did you play till you're thirty eight? Yeah, you know, yes,
and you.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Were a productive wider receiver, a guy who relied on
his legs, route running and stuff like that. You were
a real threatned filler, you were a real threat. And
watching there has to be a sense of pride, like, man,
I you know, I had a really good NFL career
and I was productive right to the end.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yes, there's some satisfaction in that, but there's also because
we talked earlier about the Hall of Fame was Stanley Morgan, Yeah,
and his stats and I wish my stats.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Were a little bit higher or a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Because yeah, it's it's an honor to make it into
the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I've been answered, Yeah, of course, that's an honesty, and I.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Wish there were some times I wish I could have
put it added a few more, even played another year
when I when I was when I finally retired from
from Washington, I got a call from John Gruden now
in California to go with the Raiders. He was at
the Raiders halfway through the next season. I should have
went out and played because I still had more left
in the tank and I probably could have got that,
(38:00):
you know, fifty sixty catches and got nine hundred thousand catches.
So yeah, I look back, and you know, I didn't
retire because I couldn't play anymore. I retired for some
family reasons, uh. And I retired because I was struggling
with what I needed to do during the off season
to get ready for the season. You know, there's a
(38:21):
lot of work that goes on least. I did a
lot of work on the track, a lot of work
in the weight room to get ready for the season,
and I was starting to struggle to do that. Not
that I couldn't do it, just mentally and emotionally commit
the commitment yes to get it done. So I started.
I began to struggle with that. So it made it
a little bit easier to say no to Gruden. But
(38:43):
I look back now, I'm like, man, I could have
gone there and just played a year or two, made
a few more dollars, and got a few more catches.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
That Raiders were good to maybe, yeah, they were.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
All he wanted me to do was come there and
catch punts. He said, just come and catch punts.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Just fair catch it. That's all.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I don't have anybody they can catch punts right your
full you know, veterans salary whatever it's minimum, And it
was halfway through the season. I'm like, man, I think
the salary for veterans at that point was like seven fifty,
So I could have went halfway.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Through the season made another seven fifty.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
And but yeah, I look back and there are times
that I wish that I had stayed maybe a little
bit longer or done a little bit more, because I've
been on the ballot several times. And that's that's torture, man,
That's it's torture to get on the ballot and then
they just not vote you in. Just why don't they
(39:33):
just wait until they picked the guys that are going
in the Hall of Fame then just announce that. Stop
announcing guys on the ballot, and then you eliminate them
year in, the year out.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
It's like torture.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
Do you follow much of the league now? In the
Patriots success.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
And what I try to but again, I keep getting
pulled back to the church. It all happens on Sundays.
So but I you know, I'm vaguely familiar.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Pages are doing well right now.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Well, but maybe to jump a little bit on what
Paul saying, this is the last one for me, Irving
is when you played here in New England, there's a
lot of people who joke about, you know, the old
high school stadium, you know, the Walker Room situation, everything
like that. When you come here and see what this is,
because it's crazy and.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
What they did, you know for that stretch.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Again, there's a lot of people, younger people who think
that the franchise just start at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
But there are standard bearers.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Like yourself, you know, the John Hannahs, the Steve Nelson's,
the Steve Grogan's, the Stanley Morgan's that played before that.
And when you see what this franchise has become, you know,
and not being around here, it must be eye opening
for you.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
Oh, I got lost trying to drop trying to drive
up here.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
It's a monstrosity.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
It's it's I mean, we used to have I was
trying to I was showing my wife last night when
we were going to Station one. We we used to
have to leave the stadium because all that was here
was the stadium and the racetrack on the other side.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That's all it was here. There was nothing else around here.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
We would leave the stadium every day and drive down
the street, make that right and go to our field.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It's like two miles away. We had to drive to
a field where we practiced.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
There was no feel here for us to practice and
then drive.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Back after practice.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
And I think they may have put some kind of
other field in there and built houses and stuff around it,
but I think that field still there based on what
I saw last night.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Is leagues.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
When I first started, I used to have to make
that drive to watch practice.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, some power. I think some little little football league
is there. Yes, is that the same what the same
field is? Okay, I saw it last night, But yeah,
it's just it's just I look and see now what
is going on, what mister Craft has done, and it's
just absolutely and when you compare it to other teams they're.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Doing just it's the best.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
It's absolutely incredible what he's been able to do and
how football has blessed me. The Craft, it's it's uh,
it's phenomenal. It's phenomenal, it really is. And it's uh,
it's just from where.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It came from. And when I got here from Nebraska.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, see, I was Nebraska had the at that time
that I was playing in, Nebraska had the largest weight
room in the world. So when I came here, I'm like,
is this what professional football is?
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It was a big step backwards, right.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
You know when it came to locker room and facility
weight the weight room was really really small. It was
it was it was an eye opener. We had to
get in the car and go to practice. Go and
get in the car and go to practice.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
What so crazy?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, it's hats off to mister Craft though. They they
have no reason to lose games now with all the
all these amenities and all of this style and all
of the they make it as they give them every
reason not to make any excuses and to be successful.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Thank you very much for your time today. Really was great.
Enjoyed myself. I'm enjoying myself.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
I think fans should go back if they haven't already.
Take a look at number eighty in the red. Take
a look at number eighty in the red.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Could play wide receiver, absolutely great studio too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thanks, I have a studio in my house, not like this,
but I got I'm taking notes.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
There you go, Irving Friar guesst Irving, thank you very
much for joining us. I appreciate it. Thank you.
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