November 26, 2025 • 35 mins
On this episode of the Twentyman in the Huddle podcast presented by Copilot+ PC, Tim Twentyman is joined by John Niyo, Isaac TeSlaa and Mike Spofford previewing the Detroit Lions' Week 13 matchup vs. the Green Bay Packers.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Winston turns play action fake, gonna throw it rolling right
looking looking throwing, and it's picked up by the Lions, intercepted
at the forty five yard line. Takeaway. That's what they needed.
Defense coming up with a huge play. Thomas Harper stepping
in front of the attended receiver.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And Welcome Week thirteen of the NFL season. I am
Tim Twentyman. This is the twenty Men in the Huddle podcast.
He is John Neo, very talented calumnist for.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
The Detroit game. It's good to be here, Tim.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, this is becoming a like an annual thing, reunion
this last Thanksgiving, so we're gonna we decided to reup it.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
It was so good.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
Slightly bigger the stakes of raise this Thanksgiving raise.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
This is a big game.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
It is a huge game.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Yeah, it's the biggest game of the year, like and
I kind of felt like that even before the season,
we looked at that schedule, you know, all those primetime games,
and you know the sort of murderers row of primetime games,
and this was the one still to me, that's like,
you know, the goal of this season, like every season,
but especially this season, was to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Win the division. And this is the game you got
to win to win the division.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Especially, I don't think the loser wins.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
No, at least no crazier things have happened, certainly certainly
in this NFC North it's a log jam. But yeah,
it's the winner of this one is right there as
maybe I think probably wins the division. To be honest,
no offense to Ben Johnson and the Bears, but I
do think that the winner of this one is in
the driver's seat and U and the losers.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really got to need some help.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
That silly tie screwed everything.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I know, but it kind of makes things easier for us,
hopefully at the end of the season. But yeah, no,
I do think this is sort of this is a
make or break game for both these seams in terms
of the division.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Let's talk about the Giants a little bit. Yeah, we
look forward to the Packers and john It felt like
on Monday the Lions were apologizing for a win, you know, Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
That sense to just you hear the.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Sports stock radio and my ax A count and everything else.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It felt better. Is there such a thing as a
bad win.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Apologize?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
No?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Look, I mean that just look at who the Giants be.
They've only got two wins, but you know, they beat
maybe they beat yeah, Philadelphia, Philadelphia. So no, but and look,
it was a game all week they tried to tell
everybody this team is not a two and nineteen. You know,
you know the reason why they head coach got fired
is because they kept blowing fourth quarter leads, which of
(02:23):
course they did again on Sunday. But no, and I
think you know, look, you're always looking for the for
the positive spin after a game like that if you're
the Lions. But I think there is something to the
fact that, you know, Aiden Hutchinson after the game was
talking to met Is like something we really hadn't done before,
was down ten eleven, twelve minutes left, come back, win,
(02:44):
and those things do there's a confidence that comes from that. Yeah,
that I think is important. And you you know, every
good team is going to have one of those games
in a season, maybe more than one. You know, if
you're the Lions, and if you're a Lions fan, you're
hoping it's not a regular thing. Down and double digits
down in the fourth quarter. But no, I think there's
something to be said for, Hey, we can do this,
(03:05):
we can come from behind and and win a game
like that. And when we're not playing our best, because
they certainly didn't play their best or close to it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And there's something to be said for your star power
at the end being a big part of that too,
Jamior Gibbs, Aiden Hutchinson gets the sack, you know, and
then it was your stars that made the plays at
the end of the game. And to your point, you
want to prove that you can come back, but your
stars have to be stars in those big moments too,
And I thought that was something positive to come out
of that game. You wrote about the defense after the game.
(03:33):
I'm just curious what impressed you about that performance and
what's one thing maybe that you got some reservations about
when you look at that.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty easy to me. I mean
the one thing that impressed me was, you know, look
at so many things went wrong for them on that
side of all, especially a week after they had, you know,
played championship level defense in the in the game in
Philly on prime time. The explosive was ten explosive price.
I mean, it's just it was sort of unheard of.
It was jarring, looked like, you know, look like scrambled
(04:04):
drills on the defensive side of few too many plays there.
You know, there's some miscommunications. Certainly, there's a lot of
things that went wrong. The one thing that you can
say about this defense more than anything else is that
run defense is legitimately one of the best in the league.
It's a constant. It's you know, you're always going to
be in a game. You feel like with the way
they stopped the run, and that's a Giants team that like,
(04:26):
it's not a world beating Giants offense with you know,
the pieces they're missing, but they were running the ball
and they could run the ball and they didn't effectively.
It was a three point one yards of carry or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
They they they did enough in the run game to
keep themselves in there, and then now now they were
James once had. The problem was James had way.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Too much time to throw and that's been an issue.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
That's been an issue million You get one sack and
it's the very last play of the game. Certainly it
was an important sack, but yeah, he just said way
too much time. I think it was like second longest
ye something like that this year this season. So you
know that's a problem. That's why it looked as bad
as it did, probably in the back end because there
wasn't enough pressure. And Jamis is a guy that we
(05:11):
all know. He's going to give you chances to make
plays and get turnovers if you put a little pressure,
and they just didn't enough that game.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
All right, let's look forward to Thursday, big game. We've
talked about it. What does Detroit have to do, in
your opinion, Thursday to come out on top. It's a
really good, really good green Bay defense, top five in scoring,
top five in total defense. It's an offense. It's in
the top half of the league. They're pretty balanced defensively,
they're really really what.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Is it, second best defense they've probably played this year.
I would say, you know, maybe behind Philly.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What jumps out.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
You gotta start fast, You've got to run the ball,
and that's the thing. You know, Look, we saw what happened.
All the miscommunication was the first time out for Tate
Ratledge and Chris Mahogany and that interior offense. Different team
now it is a different team. Now it's a different
you know, Michaeh Parsons was just getting his feet wet
and just shown up in Green Bay. Now he is
Michah parsons that defensive front, they can rush for and
(06:10):
sack the quarterback. Jared Goff was sacked four times time
n hit nine times. That can't happen again. But the
way to make sure that doesn't happen is to get
that run game going early, get the crowd in it.
But obviously is the other change when you change the
venue like this, Yeah, I think that's important to establish
a run and get some play action. Now, the other
(06:31):
thing that's been missing, obviously is that you know that
explosive deep shot in this offense. Teams are not gonna
let him do it. Jamo's not going to get behind
you know, the safeties are not going to let that
happen unless you force them to make it happen. And
so that's to me, I just think there's opportunities there.
But to me, it's gonna start with that run and.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
If they take that big shot away, then you've got
to take advantage of the run game, like you talked.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
About, especially now, especially now because you're missing Sam Laporta,
which is a huge piece that we probably don't talk
about enough. Yeah, there's no replacing that in terms of
not just a safety valve, but in the run game.
And look, you might not have cleef Raman this week,
so maybe, like you said, it's a tesla, it's a
little more action. Maybe there's more passing to Jamior Gibbs again,
(07:14):
which he's certainly a weapon. But yeah, to me, it's
gonna start with that line establishing the run.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Speaking of Gibbs, I think it was nine cares for
nineteen yards in that first week, four total, or maybe
it was bad. Something tells me mister Gibbs won't have
nine carries for nineteen yards.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
At home on that fast track.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
John Look, two hundred nineteen yards rushing three runs of
forty nine plus last week. He's top three in just
about every category among running backs. And you start to
see the Lions always put out these statistics right on
the on the on the X account, and it's.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Since Barry's like the old page, the last one.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Since since Mary Sanders, first time since for you know,
all these things, forty plus touchdowns. He's probably gonna catch
Barry in terms of forty seven touchdowns before he's twenty four,
are we It's hard to compare anybody to who I
think is the greatest running back in the history.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Of the game. But it's it's starting to trend that way.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
When you when you when you set a franchise right,
what was it was this total sixty forty four. Yeah,
when you set a franchise record for a franchise that
once was home to Barry Sanders for a decade, Yeah,
that tells you everything you need to know. But yeah,
he's just and what is now He's got three of
the five fastest speeds measured in the league and the
lead and that's h And that's the thing to me.
(08:37):
I mean, you know, there's nothing more entertaining than watching
you know, a quick block Pina Suell turns around, raises
his arms and gives it still and they just know,
almost sixty yards away at the end zone, it's just like, yep,
he's gone. And I mean that's the sort of thing
that you can't obviously you can't coach, but you also
(08:58):
can't defend. Yeah, if you give him room to run
like that, if if they can, you know, if they
can do the fundamental things at the line of scrimmers
the way they did on a few of those run plays,
he's taken into the house and that is just a
complete game changer. And that's you know, especially for a
team that obviously doesn't have the offensive line had a
(09:19):
year ago or two years ago or three years ago.
That's that's everything they need, really is He's going to
have to be able to provide that here down the
stretch against these better defenses.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And I love how they're incorporating him the pass game too.
I think forty six catches. I think he had fifty
two each of his first two years. So he's gonna
obviously exceed that if he if he stays healthy in plays,
and that's a that's another way that they can get
the ball to him in and.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Not like it wasn't the opener where it was whatever
he set a record for like fewest yards on that
was just like, oh man, we've got no other option
here outlet, we just got to dump it off. No,
they've got you know, Texas routes, every whatever Texas there was,
there was a there was a wheel route last week
where it was like, oh and you know, I think
we're going to see one of those at some point.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Maybe it's this week where he's downfield catching the ball.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
How fun is the NSC North right now?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I know, it's pretty crazy, right I was looking at
this too. It's the uh, the Bears are on top
right right, the Packers are right there, the Lines right there.
But if you look at the strength of schedule remaining
in the league, they're three of the top four because
they're all playing each other, you know, you know, the
Bears and Packers have to play each other twice. Yeah,
(10:25):
Lines obviously have to finish at you know, Soldier Field
in January. Obviously they're playing this week on Thanksgiving. But yeah,
there's so much that can happen here and those other
two teams. To be honest, if you if you're a
Lions fan, you'd rather play the schedule they've got left
than one Chicago and a Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The guy still has to go to San Francisco and Philadelphia.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And some of those weeks are really awkward too, because
you're going to San Francisco the week before, you know,
a Sunday night game before the line, you know, before
they're back home to play the Lines. Anyway, there's there's
plenty to be decided, but it's not going.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
To be decided till the end. I think that's what's
starting to come.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Think you think that Week eighteen, I really, I do,
really think you know, whether it means it's Lions and
Bears playing to get in or maybe the and the
Packers are at the vikings.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Or advice for I can't remember now. I do think
it's going to come.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Down to me, just like last year, this division is
better when Chicago's good, right, Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's absolutely these rivalries. I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Like we went so long in this town in particular
with you know, would be rivals. But now that the
Lions have been on top and these teams are all gunning,
I mean we saw it in the opener in Lambeau.
I mean that meant a lot to the Packers to
finally sort of and the Lions jinks that you know,
they hadn't beaten them, you know, with any lock hadn't
had any luck beating them here in the last few years.
(11:40):
That meant a lot for them. Well, now the shoes
on the other foot, you know, it's like all right,
you know, you know, counter punch, that's what we're that's
and you can you could hear it in Dan Campell's voices.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And the Ben Johnson moved to Chicago up a little bit,
and that'll be the top of the conversation. For years
to come, as long as Ben's there, and we know
Green Bay is always going to be good. It's just
a little odd with Minnesota. Yeah, that quarterback whisper in
Minnesota for so long, and that just something doesn't seem right.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
With right now. Whispers are starting to sound a little.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But that's a good roster.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's a quarterback away from being right there again too,
And so it's just it's fun.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
He wondered, you wondered at being in this year. Okay,
where's it? You know, how far is Chicago going to
make this jump?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It is?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
It feels like the best division in football possibly still,
And that's that's a lot of fun for fans. It's anxious,
but it's fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, you're one of the best columnists in Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Let's end on this Thanksgiving. What's what's a must? What
has to be on the plate at the Neil House.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It's a stuffing guy, stuffing. I'm a stuffing guy. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, just yeah, I'll make an extra batch of stuff
and just for me left exactly. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Big game on Thursday should be there.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You can listen to you can read everything and Detroit
news from from John Neo and thanks taking tanks.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Welcome back to the Twin in the Huddle podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Everybody knows the guys sitting next to me, Isaac Tesla,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Thanks for joining.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I appreciate it first time as a rookie.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's like two West Michigan kids sitting there having a chat.
I'm from Zealing, you're from neighboring Hudsonville. And speaking of Hudsonville,
Hudsonville Unity Christian the team that you quarterbacked to a
state championships in the Division four championship on Friday.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I believe you've got a game Thursday.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You're gonna be able to make it down to the
championship game on Friday.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
That's the plan.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And you're playing they're playing Divine Child. So is there
or is there not a bet? A friendly little wager
in place between you and A and Hutchinson rival high
schools there?
Speaker 7 (13:53):
Well?
Speaker 8 (13:53):
Yeah, before this previous game I went up to him like,
did you see who you're playing in the state finals? Like, yeah, bro,
we gotta do a bet or something. So I said, yeah,
for sure, And we haven't a lot of had a
lot of time to talk after that and obviously before
the game. We're not too worried about anything about the game,
but I definitely think we're gonna put something together, something fun.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Take me back to those Unity Christian days. You know
you're quarterbacking the team there. Did you ever anticipate that
you would one day again be playing at Ford Field,
but this time with a blue jersey on for your
hometown team and the team you've always cheered for.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I anticipated it by
any means, but I mean it's always been my dream
since I was a little boy. So that moment was
so special for me. To be able to go into
the dome that I've been watching the lines play my
entire life. To be able to go and win a
game there with my closest friends and family in the
stands was super cool. So the fact that I am
here now in this position, and I mean it's even
surreal that I get to go back there and now
(14:49):
watch the team that I did, you know, go to
the state championship with.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Now I'll get to watch them, and it's just super surreal.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And you probably figured at the time that you if
that dream was gonna happen, it probably me a quarterback
and you go to college, you make the switch to
wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Some guys would resist that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know, what was that conversation like, obviously turned out
to be the best thing for you, but just just
tuk me through kind of that journey and how you
got to where you are in terms of being a
wide receiver.
Speaker 8 (15:19):
Yeah, I mean it was really my own decision. Like
nobody pressured me or even suggested it that I make
the switch to receiver. But I just felt like my
build and athleticism was better as a receiver than it
was a quarterback, which is kind of crazy to think
because I never caught a ball in a game. I
was always throw I was mostly running it. We threw
it very seldomly just because here ran the straight tea.
(15:39):
But yeah, I just felt like who I was athletically,
my speed, my size, my ability to jump up and
go get a ball. Because I would do drills with
my dad all the time and I would get bored
throwing the ball, so I'd go out there and he
make me run out. So I mean, I I was
getting reps at it, but it wasn't like I knew
that's what I wanted to do until about after my
junior season, after he one state, going to that summer,
(16:01):
going to camps, I was like, I think I want
to try going as a receiver instead of a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And was it an easy transition?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Was it quick?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Did you have kind of quick success because of your
athleticism in your size?
Speaker 8 (16:16):
I wouldn't say it was easy. I mean there's so
many nuances to being a receiver that I didn't realize
kind of going into it, Like watching TV, You're like,
all you gotta do is run the round and go
catch a ball. But I mean you can't just run
the lines on the paper, and there's different reads you've
got to make and all this stuff. So I mean
playing a quarterback kind of seeing the field that way
probably helped me a little bit as a receiver as
I learned it. But I mean it's just a completely
(16:37):
different position to play, and I had to learn so
many techniques and I'm thankfully my dad was a receiver
at Hillsdale where I ended up going, so he helped
me out a lot and we spent a line a
lot of time together working on my craft as a receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And it's no joke in this offense playing wide receiver too,
with the splits and the timing and everything that Jared
is so specific about. What was that learning curve too?
Coming here?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Was it a lot?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Was a lot more than what you did at Arkansas
when you transferred there.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
I mean everything is so like pinpoint, Like you said,
you know all the coordinators and especially Jaredissow, you know,
nitpicking about everything how everything needs to be because everything
has a brime or reason to it. It's not like, hey,
you make you go and get in that split for
a reason, or you want to run this route this
way just because I want it. It's because that's the
stuff that works against the defenses that were going against.
(17:24):
So you really got to lock into the game plan,
getting your playbook and see how things shake out on
the field when you're out of practice.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We've seen you become bigger and bigger part of these
offense the last few weeks. I think over twenty offensive
snaps the last three weeks. Khalif Raymond's dealing with an
ankle injury, will see if he's available on Thursday. The
expectation if he can't go, you will have a much
bigger role. You're really not a rookie anymore at this point,
right after after eleven games, I'm curious as you evaluate
(17:53):
your first couple months in the league, what do you
think spend your biggest asset and what do you what's
the one thing maybe you want to focus on improving
the most.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Yeah, I mean, i'd say my biggest thing is just
my versatility.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
Obviously.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
You know, people look at me and they damn you
think I'm a tight end just because of my size.
But I mean, you know, you see me running my forty.
I got some speed to me and I have some elusiveness.
So I just feel like I bring a lot of versatility.
I can play multiple positions on the field, inside, outside,
I can block, so that I definitely think that's like
my biggest strength is just my versatility. And then what
(18:26):
was the other part of it?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Just what's one thing? Yeah, you want to continue to
kind of build and work on. What's one thing that
jumps out to you in that regard?
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Yeah, I'd say just like my overall craftiness. Obviously.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Right now I'm so focused on like doing it the
right way and you know, locking in what it is,
how it looks on the sheet. But I mean as
a receiver, you know, you gotta have some savvy to you, so,
you know, making, separating at the top, releasing and stuff
like that.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
So just all that stuff. I really want to continue
to work.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
On Thanksgiving Obviously tradition as a Lions fan, you watched
a ton Just how surreal is it now to be
playing in this game. Probably a ton of family coming
over from West Michigan. You could have a big role
in this game as well. How much have you been
looking forward to this week and this game?
Speaker 8 (19:12):
Yeah, it's obviously super special, And obviously being a Lions
fan growing up and the tradition that it is watching
the Lions play every Sunday was something I really look
forward to. Obviously I look forward to Grandma's cooking and
Thanksgiving Thanksgiving meal, but I was always number two to
watching the Lions play. And for you know, a long time,
we didn't have a lot of success, but you know,
last year, I think we broke a pretty long streak
(19:33):
of losses on things.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Six or seven in a row.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, so I want to keep that rolling.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
And it's cool that I'm going to be a part
of it, and my family's coming out this way, so
it's cool that we're gonna have Thanksgiving on the on
the East side this year as opposed to the West side.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Not just Thanksgiving though too. I mean it's Green Bay,
a team that you guys lost to Week one. Obviously
huge game with division implications, playoff implications.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
How different of a football.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Team are you guys since all the way back in
Week one.
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, we've definitely learned a lot, and it's
nice now we got some scout games we can watch
the Packers. Obviously, going into Week one, you never know
what you're gonna get, so it's it's good to get
the we can get some scout tape on them, kind
of see what their tendencies are and get that film.
But like you said, it's obviously a huge game for us,
and really for I mean for both of us, us
(20:25):
and the Packers. Like you said, we lost that the
first one, so we definitely got a chip on our shoulder.
But I mean, it's not like they're gonna let off
the gas by any means, and it's gonna be, you know,
huge implications for kind of the playoff picture going forward.
So you never want to put too much importance on
a game. We want to treat every game the same.
But This one's definitely gonna have a big impact in
the rest.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
Of the season.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
From the outside looking at it seems like you stepped
in a pretty good situation with Scottie Montgomery. You know,
in that room with with veterans like you know, Khalif, Raymond,
A'man Ross, Saint Brown. How perfect of a situation has
that been Having kind of that experience in that room.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
For you, it's just been incredible. The leadership from Scotty
Montgomery is something that I really appreciate. I remember, even
coming in my visit, I just I knew that was
something that I would see myself really thriving under. And
I really appreciated his leadership, not only on the football field,
because he's I mean, he's incredibly smart. He knows everything offensively, defensively,
like he's just such a like a football guru. And
(21:20):
then just I mean, everyone knows the receiver room that
we have, so just be able to step into that
and look up to guys like Satan Jmo and Khalif
and even TK. I mean that dude's so versatile and
he's been He's been hanging around here for a long time.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
So just be able to sit behind all those guys.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
And learn from them and now be able to play
with them on the field. Is it's been, It's been
very beneficial for me.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I'm excited to see you have a bigger role.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Are you excited to kind of have that that bigger
role down the stretch too? And and Dan Campbell said
this week he said, look, it's coming. His breakout game
is coming. We see it on the practice field. We
know that the potential is there and it's coming. What
does that mean that confidence coming from the head coach.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
Yeah, I mean that's definitely a confidence booster. But it's
not something you know, you can go into the game
and you can force Like it's got to come with time.
So it's not like I'm going into every game like,
oh man, I hope this is the one, Like I
really hope you know.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
This is my breakout game. Like I just go into
the game. I gotta do my job. I just gotta
do what I gotta do. Unto the ball comes my way,
and so be.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It on the ball comes your way, you catch it
one hand, two hands. It hasn't mattered this year. A
couple of great catches. Hopefully you have another great catch.
It touchdown to against Green Bay like you did Week one.
Last question, what's the must on the table? You talked
about the cooking Thanksgivings coming east? What has to be
on Isaac's play on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 8 (22:35):
About half the play as mashed potatoes, gravy corn on top.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, good luck to you on Thursday, your first hit
at the Thanksgiving Today tradition as a player, Go have
that big game. Appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Welcome back to the twenty in the Huddle podcast. I'm
very happy to welcome in Mike Spotford. He does great
job as the editor of Packers Dot.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Huh, Mike, thanks for joining me. Appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
Hey, you bet, thanks for having me tim short week.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
This is I think what the twenty third meeting we've
had here on Thanksgiving. So we're familiar with this, we
us a little bit more than you.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
But but just how tough.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Are these short weeks for the players, for the coaches,
for us quick to turning this around.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Not that the fans really care about us, but it's
it's tough. These short weeks are night it, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
No doubt about it. I mean I don't know, you
know how the players do it? Quite frankly, to play,
you know, four quarters on a Sunday and then turn
around four days later and have to and have to
put their bodies through that again on a day where
you would really just normally be putting the pats back
on for the first time during the week to you know,
(23:49):
to get a practice in and you've got to go
play another game. I always think the Thursday games are
are really different for the road team versus the home
team too, because when you're getting on an airplane on
Wednesday to fly somewhere at least when you're playing at
home on Thursday, you know, you don't have that the
travel part of it where it almost feels like another
(24:11):
another day is taken away on a short week when
when you're the road team, but every team goes through
it at at some time or another. You guys are
used to hosting this game, and certainly the Packers have
played in Detroit on Thanksgiving a number of times, including
just two years ago.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I talked to alex Anzelone's in the locker room yesterday
and I was just curious. I'm like, during a normal week,
like when do you start to like feel good, like
when is your body like ready to And he was like,
I start to feel like real good, Like my body's
good if I don't suffer an injury on Friday, on
Friday of a typical week, and now he's strapping it
up after playing an overtime game on Sunday. So it's
(24:54):
definitely tough on these players and coaches. But Mike, I
want to talk about this Packers defense. First of foremost
top five in the NFL in total defense, top five
and scoring defense held Minnesota, I think to one hundred
and forty five total yards on Sonny just four total
net yards in the second half. How good is that unit?
(25:14):
It was Michael Parsons, Mike, the missing piece to that.
You know, has he kind of tied it all together?
Speaker 7 (25:20):
Yeah, I mean, I would say Parsons is definitely a
guy who you know, he's taken a good defense and
kind of helped to put it over the top and
raise it to another level. Because the Packers were playing
pretty good defense down the stretch last year. In Jeff
Hafley's first year as defensive coordinator, things were really coming
together with Edger and Cooper coming into his own at
(25:40):
the end of his rookie year. He had other rookies
like Javon Bullard and Evan Williams. You know, they were
getting that experience in their first seasons. Then you know
you're bringing you're bringing all that back, and then right
before the start of the season you add Parsons to
the mix. So yeah, it's a unit quite frankly, that's
really had only one like bad game and that was
(26:02):
way back in Week four. It was a forty to
forty overtime tie at Dallas where suddenly, you know, the
Packers defense just didn't look like what we've seen the
rest of the year. But that was really the exception
and not the rule. And really what happened, you know
in the Vikings game is for the first time in
about a month, the Packers actually got a multi score lead.
(26:24):
They were able to build an eleven point lead. It
was seventeen to six early in the third quarter against
the Vikings, and once the Vikings you know, kind of
had to throw the ball, they couldn't rely on the
running game because they were down multiple scores. Then the
Packers pass rush just just overwhelmed them. And that's really
the formula for the Packers is to build a lead
(26:45):
and then turn the pass rush led by Parsons loose
on the opposition. But when the Packers have not had
that type of a lead, then the defense doesn't necessarily
play like that. It's a lot harder to just pin
your ears back and go after the quarterback when you
in a tight down to the way or game. So
that's those are the kind of the differences we've seen
with this unit throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
When you talk about building a lead, you look at
this team offensively, just the weapons on the outside at receiver.
I know they lost their tight end, that was a
big loss for them, but you know, Josh Jacobs is
one of the better running backs in this league. You
look at the statistics and I think they're thirteenth and
thirteenth offentually, so they're kind of right in the middle
of the pack in the NFL. But just personnel wise,
(27:28):
it seems from the outside looking in they should maybe
be a little bit better than that. What's maybe been
some of the inconsistencies on that side of the football
where they haven't been able to build those big leads,
pin their ears back and let that defense eat.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
Yeah, the biggest issues that have cropped up over the
course of the year. Kind of holding the Packers offense
back have been penalties, and as was the case just
a couple of times in the Eagles game and in
the Giants game where the drop passes. Now drop passes
were an issue for the last season in twenty twenty four.
They seem to have kind of cleaned that up through
(28:04):
the first half of twenty twenty five, but then they
had a couple of games where again the catching of
the ball just wasn't clean and it cost them penalty wise.
The offense has just had throughout the course of the years,
had way too many pre snap penalties, whether it be
the fall starts or illegal motion or illegal formation with
(28:25):
guys lining up wrong, just the mental mistakes that have
compounded and made things difficult for the offense, and in
certain situations the last two weeks against the Giants and
the Vikings, the pre snap penalties knock on wood for
the Packers have kind of gone away. They feel like
if that part of their offensive game is cleaned up,
(28:46):
then things start to look more consistent, more productive on offense,
So they're hoping that that's behind them, But of course
now you're going to be going into an indoor stadium,
a crazy Detroit crowd, you know Thanksgiving Day that you know,
the noise is going to be there, the crowd, it's
going to bring it. So the Packers have to stay
on their p's and q's with regard to, you know,
keeping those pre snap penalties at bay for this offense
(29:08):
to be in the position it wants to be.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah, it's crazy. You mentioned that drops.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Detroit was the best team in the NFL last year
in terms of fewest amount of drops drop percentage. Packers were,
you know, down at the bottom of the lee. But
that's been an issue for Detroit now this year. Those
have cropped up very steady. Hand on Ron Saint Brown
has had a few, Jamison Williams has had the issue.
So it's just interesting how year over year some of
(29:32):
those statistics and some of those things can just kind
of flip up side down. Mike short weight means injuries
are always a storyline. I'm just curious how are the
Packers health wise? The injury report on Monday looked pretty good,
is what's the opinion of Josh Jacobs, Maybe some of
those other guys injury wise in their availability for Thursday.
Speaker 7 (29:54):
Yeah, I mean, on that long list of guys on
the on the injury report, I would say the two
the biggest things, The two biggest pieces of news as
far as that estimation on Monday was that both Josh
Jacobs at running back and kway Walker at linebacker were
estimated as limited participants, so they may be on their
way back to be able to play on Thursday, after
(30:16):
both of those guys missed the game this past Sunday
against Minnesota. So those are probably the two biggest ones
to watch. And then the other one is Keishawn Nixon,
the Packers' number one corner He left the game against
the Vikings with a shoulder stinger. He did not return.
Kamal Hadden came off the bench to replace him. Nixon
was estimated as a DNP for Monday on the injury report,
(30:41):
so very up in the air as to whether he
will be able to come back. But the other side
is that Nate Hobbs, another cornerback who has missed some
games now with a knee injury. He was estimated as
limited that he would be back in practice, So whether
he's potentially in the mix at cornerback on Thursday, well
we'll have to keep an eye on that, and as
(31:01):
we all know, I mean, we'll kind of find out
the final word ninety minutes before kickoff on.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
All these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, last time these two teams played, it seems like
so long ago, Mike, you know, Week one at Lambeau.
It seems like almost a last season. Two obviously very
different teams that at this point in the season. But look,
the Packers handed to two Lions week one. I mean,
they won by two touchdowns. It really never was a contest.
(31:27):
I'm curious now you look two three months later, what's
the biggest concern for green Bay coming to Detroit on Thursday?
Speaker 4 (31:37):
What's what's what?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Are they looking at it as something that they have
to do if they're gonna escape Ford Field with a
victory and a season sweep of Lions.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I don't like to
oversimplify things, because this game is never simple and it's complicated.
But if you if you want to break it down
into a into a really succinct SoundBite from the Packers perspective,
it's tackle Jumior Gibbs and block Aiden Hutchinson. Because those
from green Bay's perspective, those are the two guys who
can give you a really long day on either side
(32:10):
of the ball. And when you go back to Week one,
as you said, it feels like it was forever ago.
It feels like it was last season. Jamiir Gibbs and
David Montgomery were kind of, you know, splitting time and
it was very much an uneven workshare back then at
the beginning part of the season. We've seen Jamiir Gibbs
really come on as a dangerous, big time home run
(32:31):
hitter who has become an even bigger part of this offense,
at least in my opinion, as the season has gone
on for the Lions. And obviously the game he had
last week against the Giants was just out of this world,
So that rises to the top of the list. And
the other thing with Hutchinson back in Week one, the
Packers were able to neutralize Hutchinson, but that was also
(32:51):
his first game back from the long layoff last year,
after the really rough injury and the long rehab and
all that. And we've seen Aiden Hutchinson as the sea
and has gone along get back to being a lot
more like the pre injury Aiden Hutchinson that we had seen.
And I think the Packers have to be ready for
Hutchinson's best on Thursday, and they've got to They've got
(33:11):
to find a way to minimize his impact as well.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Mike, how fun is this race in the NFC North
right now? You know, obviously, look give Chicago credit, right,
they're finding ways to win games. It hasn't been pretty,
but look, you never apologize for wins in this league.
At least that's a philosophy here in Detroit. I'm sure
it is with Ben Johnson in Chicago. You knew the
Packers were gonna be right there. You knew Detroit was
(33:35):
gonna be right there. In Minnesota obviously having a little
bit of quarterback issues, and when you have that, it's
tough to consistently win in this league. But for those
three teams, just how fun has this been? And and
look from a Packers perspective, I think you guys, five
of your last seven are against division opponents, so you
guys control your own destiny. But just overall, Mike, how
(33:58):
fun do you expect this finish in the NFC North
to be? And how big is Thursday's game because of that?
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (34:05):
I mean, I honestly, I think I think the winner
of Thursday's game in Detroit, you know, puts themselves in
a pretty good position to be able to win the
division and the loser is going to have a very
hard time. I think winning the division, it's gonna be
you're gonna be looking more at the wild card scenarios,
I think than possible division championships. There's still a long
(34:27):
way to go. But you know, the Bears at eight
and three, the Packers at seven three and one, the
Lions at seven and four, and here we are, the
Packers and Lions are playing each other. The Lions and
the Bears still have to play one more game. The
Packers and the Bears have two games left to play
against one another. So this can go any number of
different ways. And here we are, you know, hitting the
(34:47):
holidays and the fact that the Packers and Lions are
playing on Thursday and then the Bears are playing the
Eagles on Friday. I mean before we even get to
the weekend, there, you know, can be all of us
shifting around in the in the NFC North just based
on these these Thursday Friday results. So it's been fun
so far, and I think it's I think it's only
going to get more intense as we get down the
stretch here.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It'll be fun to Chicago Detroit week eighteen.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Ben Johnson, if he's in the mix, that could be
a fun little storyline, but it's a big one Thursday.
I agree with you, the winner definitely has the edge.
It makes this matchup on Thanksgiving really really big in
terms of the NFC, NFC Playoff picture and the NFC
North Division title. Mike, I appreciate you taking the time,
great stuff as always. You can catch all Mike's stuff
on packers dot com and safe travels to Detroit and
(35:34):
we'll see you on Thursday.
Speaker 7 (35:34):
My friend sounds good tim Happy Thanksgiving.
Winston turns play action fake, gonna throw it rolling right
looking looking throwing, and it's picked up by the Lions, intercepted
at the forty five yard line. Takeaway. That's what they needed.
Defense coming up with a huge play. Thomas Harper stepping
in front of the attended receiver.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And Welcome Week thirteen of the NFL season. I am
Tim Twentyman. This is the twenty Men in the Huddle podcast.
He is John Neo, very talented calumnist for.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
The Detroit game. It's good to be here, Tim.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, this is becoming a like an annual thing, reunion
this last Thanksgiving, so we're gonna we decided to reup it.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
It was so good.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
Slightly bigger the stakes of raise this Thanksgiving raise.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
This is a big game.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
It is a huge game.
Speaker 5 (00:42):
Yeah, it's the biggest game of the year, like and
I kind of felt like that even before the season,
we looked at that schedule, you know, all those primetime games,
and you know the sort of murderers row of primetime games,
and this was the one still to me, that's like,
you know, the goal of this season, like every season,
but especially this season, was to.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Win the division. And this is the game you got
to win to win the division.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Especially, I don't think the loser wins.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
No, at least no crazier things have happened, certainly certainly
in this NFC North it's a log jam. But yeah,
it's the winner of this one is right there as
maybe I think probably wins the division. To be honest,
no offense to Ben Johnson and the Bears, but I
do think that the winner of this one is in
the driver's seat and U and the losers.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Really got to need some help.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
That silly tie screwed everything.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I know, but it kind of makes things easier for us,
hopefully at the end of the season. But yeah, no,
I do think this is sort of this is a
make or break game for both these seams in terms
of the division.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Let's talk about the Giants a little bit. Yeah, we
look forward to the Packers and john It felt like
on Monday the Lions were apologizing for a win, you know, Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
That sense to just you hear the.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Sports stock radio and my ax A count and everything else.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
It felt better. Is there such a thing as a
bad win.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Apologize?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
No?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Look, I mean that just look at who the Giants be.
They've only got two wins, but you know, they beat
maybe they beat yeah, Philadelphia, Philadelphia. So no, but and look,
it was a game all week they tried to tell
everybody this team is not a two and nineteen. You know,
you know the reason why they head coach got fired
is because they kept blowing fourth quarter leads, which of
(02:23):
course they did again on Sunday. But no, and I
think you know, look, you're always looking for the for
the positive spin after a game like that if you're
the Lions. But I think there is something to the
fact that, you know, Aiden Hutchinson after the game was
talking to met Is like something we really hadn't done before,
was down ten eleven, twelve minutes left, come back, win,
(02:44):
and those things do there's a confidence that comes from that. Yeah,
that I think is important. And you you know, every
good team is going to have one of those games
in a season, maybe more than one. You know, if
you're the Lions, and if you're a Lions fan, you're
hoping it's not a regular thing. Down and double digits
down in the fourth quarter. But no, I think there's
something to be said for, Hey, we can do this,
(03:05):
we can come from behind and and win a game
like that. And when we're not playing our best, because
they certainly didn't play their best or close to it.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And there's something to be said for your star power
at the end being a big part of that too,
Jamior Gibbs, Aiden Hutchinson gets the sack, you know, and
then it was your stars that made the plays at
the end of the game. And to your point, you
want to prove that you can come back, but your
stars have to be stars in those big moments too,
And I thought that was something positive to come out
of that game. You wrote about the defense after the game.
(03:33):
I'm just curious what impressed you about that performance and
what's one thing maybe that you got some reservations about
when you look at that.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty easy to me. I mean
the one thing that impressed me was, you know, look
at so many things went wrong for them on that
side of all, especially a week after they had, you know,
played championship level defense in the in the game in
Philly on prime time. The explosive was ten explosive price.
I mean, it's just it was sort of unheard of.
It was jarring, looked like, you know, look like scrambled
(04:04):
drills on the defensive side of few too many plays there.
You know, there's some miscommunications. Certainly, there's a lot of
things that went wrong. The one thing that you can
say about this defense more than anything else is that
run defense is legitimately one of the best in the league.
It's a constant. It's you know, you're always going to
be in a game. You feel like with the way
they stopped the run, and that's a Giants team that like,
(04:26):
it's not a world beating Giants offense with you know,
the pieces they're missing, but they were running the ball
and they could run the ball and they didn't effectively.
It was a three point one yards of carry or whatever.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
They they they did enough in the run game to
keep themselves in there, and then now now they were
James once had. The problem was James had way.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Too much time to throw and that's been an issue.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
That's been an issue million You get one sack and
it's the very last play of the game. Certainly it
was an important sack, but yeah, he just said way
too much time. I think it was like second longest
ye something like that this year this season. So you
know that's a problem. That's why it looked as bad
as it did, probably in the back end because there
wasn't enough pressure. And Jamis is a guy that we
(05:11):
all know. He's going to give you chances to make
plays and get turnovers if you put a little pressure,
and they just didn't enough that game.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
All right, let's look forward to Thursday, big game. We've
talked about it. What does Detroit have to do, in
your opinion, Thursday to come out on top. It's a
really good, really good green Bay defense, top five in scoring,
top five in total defense. It's an offense. It's in
the top half of the league. They're pretty balanced defensively,
they're really really what.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Is it, second best defense they've probably played this year.
I would say, you know, maybe behind Philly.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What jumps out.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
You gotta start fast, You've got to run the ball,
and that's the thing. You know, Look, we saw what happened.
All the miscommunication was the first time out for Tate
Ratledge and Chris Mahogany and that interior offense. Different team
now it is a different team. Now it's a different
you know, Michaeh Parsons was just getting his feet wet
and just shown up in Green Bay. Now he is
Michah parsons that defensive front, they can rush for and
(06:10):
sack the quarterback. Jared Goff was sacked four times time
n hit nine times. That can't happen again. But the
way to make sure that doesn't happen is to get
that run game going early, get the crowd in it.
But obviously is the other change when you change the
venue like this, Yeah, I think that's important to establish
a run and get some play action. Now, the other
(06:31):
thing that's been missing, obviously is that you know that
explosive deep shot in this offense. Teams are not gonna
let him do it. Jamo's not going to get behind
you know, the safeties are not going to let that
happen unless you force them to make it happen. And
so that's to me, I just think there's opportunities there.
But to me, it's gonna start with that run and.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
If they take that big shot away, then you've got
to take advantage of the run game, like you talked.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
About, especially now, especially now because you're missing Sam Laporta,
which is a huge piece that we probably don't talk
about enough. Yeah, there's no replacing that in terms of
not just a safety valve, but in the run game.
And look, you might not have cleef Raman this week,
so maybe, like you said, it's a tesla, it's a
little more action. Maybe there's more passing to Jamior Gibbs again,
(07:14):
which he's certainly a weapon. But yeah, to me, it's
gonna start with that line establishing the run.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Speaking of Gibbs, I think it was nine cares for
nineteen yards in that first week, four total, or maybe
it was bad. Something tells me mister Gibbs won't have
nine carries for nineteen yards.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
At home on that fast track.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
John Look, two hundred nineteen yards rushing three runs of
forty nine plus last week. He's top three in just
about every category among running backs. And you start to
see the Lions always put out these statistics right on
the on the on the X account, and it's.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Since Barry's like the old page, the last one.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Since since Mary Sanders, first time since for you know,
all these things, forty plus touchdowns. He's probably gonna catch
Barry in terms of forty seven touchdowns before he's twenty four,
are we It's hard to compare anybody to who I
think is the greatest running back in the history.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Of the game. But it's it's starting to trend that way.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
When you when you when you set a franchise right,
what was it was this total sixty forty four. Yeah,
when you set a franchise record for a franchise that
once was home to Barry Sanders for a decade, Yeah,
that tells you everything you need to know. But yeah,
he's just and what is now He's got three of
the five fastest speeds measured in the league and the
lead and that's h And that's the thing to me.
(08:37):
I mean, you know, there's nothing more entertaining than watching
you know, a quick block Pina Suell turns around, raises
his arms and gives it still and they just know,
almost sixty yards away at the end zone, it's just like, yep,
he's gone. And I mean that's the sort of thing
that you can't obviously you can't coach, but you also
(08:58):
can't defend. Yeah, if you give him room to run
like that, if if they can, you know, if they
can do the fundamental things at the line of scrimmers
the way they did on a few of those run plays,
he's taken into the house and that is just a
complete game changer. And that's you know, especially for a
team that obviously doesn't have the offensive line had a
(09:19):
year ago or two years ago or three years ago.
That's that's everything they need, really is He's going to
have to be able to provide that here down the
stretch against these better defenses.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And I love how they're incorporating him the pass game too.
I think forty six catches. I think he had fifty
two each of his first two years. So he's gonna
obviously exceed that if he if he stays healthy in plays,
and that's a that's another way that they can get
the ball to him in and.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Not like it wasn't the opener where it was whatever
he set a record for like fewest yards on that
was just like, oh man, we've got no other option
here outlet, we just got to dump it off. No,
they've got you know, Texas routes, every whatever Texas there was,
there was a there was a wheel route last week
where it was like, oh and you know, I think
we're going to see one of those at some point.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Maybe it's this week where he's downfield catching the ball.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
How fun is the NSC North right now?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I know, it's pretty crazy, right I was looking at
this too. It's the uh, the Bears are on top
right right, the Packers are right there, the Lines right there.
But if you look at the strength of schedule remaining
in the league, they're three of the top four because
they're all playing each other, you know, you know, the
Bears and Packers have to play each other twice. Yeah,
(10:25):
Lines obviously have to finish at you know, Soldier Field
in January. Obviously they're playing this week on Thanksgiving. But yeah,
there's so much that can happen here and those other
two teams. To be honest, if you if you're a
Lions fan, you'd rather play the schedule they've got left
than one Chicago and a Green Bay.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
The guy still has to go to San Francisco and Philadelphia.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And some of those weeks are really awkward too, because
you're going to San Francisco the week before, you know,
a Sunday night game before the line, you know, before
they're back home to play the Lines. Anyway, there's there's
plenty to be decided, but it's not going.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
To be decided till the end. I think that's what's
starting to come.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
Think you think that Week eighteen, I really, I do,
really think you know, whether it means it's Lions and
Bears playing to get in or maybe the and the
Packers are at the vikings.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Or advice for I can't remember now. I do think
it's going to come.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Down to me, just like last year, this division is
better when Chicago's good, right, Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's absolutely these rivalries. I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Like we went so long in this town in particular
with you know, would be rivals. But now that the
Lions have been on top and these teams are all gunning,
I mean we saw it in the opener in Lambeau.
I mean that meant a lot to the Packers to
finally sort of and the Lions jinks that you know,
they hadn't beaten them, you know, with any lock hadn't
had any luck beating them here in the last few years.
(11:40):
That meant a lot for them. Well, now the shoes
on the other foot, you know, it's like all right,
you know, you know, counter punch, that's what we're that's
and you can you could hear it in Dan Campell's voices.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
And the Ben Johnson moved to Chicago up a little bit,
and that'll be the top of the conversation. For years
to come, as long as Ben's there, and we know
Green Bay is always going to be good. It's just
a little odd with Minnesota. Yeah, that quarterback whisper in
Minnesota for so long, and that just something doesn't seem right.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
With right now. Whispers are starting to sound a little.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But that's a good roster.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
That's a quarterback away from being right there again too,
And so it's just it's fun.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
He wondered, you wondered at being in this year. Okay,
where's it? You know, how far is Chicago going to
make this jump?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It is?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
It feels like the best division in football possibly still,
And that's that's a lot of fun for fans. It's anxious,
but it's fun.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, you're one of the best columnists in Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Let's end on this Thanksgiving. What's what's a must? What
has to be on the plate at the Neil House.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It's a stuffing guy, stuffing. I'm a stuffing guy. Yeah,
I love it.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Yeah, just yeah, I'll make an extra batch of stuff
and just for me left exactly. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Big game on Thursday should be there.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You can listen to you can read everything and Detroit
news from from John Neo and thanks taking tanks.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Welcome back to the Twin in the Huddle podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Everybody knows the guys sitting next to me, Isaac Tesla,
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Thanks for joining.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I appreciate it first time as a rookie.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's like two West Michigan kids sitting there having a chat.
I'm from Zealing, you're from neighboring Hudsonville. And speaking of Hudsonville,
Hudsonville Unity Christian the team that you quarterbacked to a
state championships in the Division four championship on Friday.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I believe you've got a game Thursday.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
You're gonna be able to make it down to the
championship game on Friday.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
That's the plan.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And you're playing they're playing Divine Child. So is there
or is there not a bet? A friendly little wager
in place between you and A and Hutchinson rival high
schools there?
Speaker 7 (13:53):
Well?
Speaker 8 (13:53):
Yeah, before this previous game I went up to him like,
did you see who you're playing in the state finals? Like, yeah, bro,
we gotta do a bet or something. So I said, yeah,
for sure, And we haven't a lot of had a
lot of time to talk after that and obviously before
the game. We're not too worried about anything about the game,
but I definitely think we're gonna put something together, something fun.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Take me back to those Unity Christian days. You know
you're quarterbacking the team there. Did you ever anticipate that
you would one day again be playing at Ford Field,
but this time with a blue jersey on for your
hometown team and the team you've always cheered for.
Speaker 8 (14:28):
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I anticipated it by
any means, but I mean it's always been my dream
since I was a little boy. So that moment was
so special for me. To be able to go into
the dome that I've been watching the lines play my
entire life. To be able to go and win a
game there with my closest friends and family in the
stands was super cool. So the fact that I am
here now in this position, and I mean it's even
surreal that I get to go back there and now
(14:49):
watch the team that I did, you know, go to
the state championship with.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Now I'll get to watch them, and it's just super surreal.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And you probably figured at the time that you if
that dream was gonna happen, it probably me a quarterback
and you go to college, you make the switch to
wide receiver.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
Some guys would resist that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know, what was that conversation like, obviously turned out
to be the best thing for you, but just just
tuk me through kind of that journey and how you
got to where you are in terms of being a
wide receiver.
Speaker 8 (15:19):
Yeah, I mean it was really my own decision. Like
nobody pressured me or even suggested it that I make
the switch to receiver. But I just felt like my
build and athleticism was better as a receiver than it
was a quarterback, which is kind of crazy to think
because I never caught a ball in a game. I
was always throw I was mostly running it. We threw
it very seldomly just because here ran the straight tea.
(15:39):
But yeah, I just felt like who I was athletically,
my speed, my size, my ability to jump up and
go get a ball. Because I would do drills with
my dad all the time and I would get bored
throwing the ball, so I'd go out there and he
make me run out. So I mean, I I was
getting reps at it, but it wasn't like I knew
that's what I wanted to do until about after my
junior season, after he one state, going to that summer,
(16:01):
going to camps, I was like, I think I want
to try going as a receiver instead of a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And was it an easy transition?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Was it quick?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Did you have kind of quick success because of your
athleticism in your size?
Speaker 8 (16:16):
I wouldn't say it was easy. I mean there's so
many nuances to being a receiver that I didn't realize
kind of going into it, Like watching TV, You're like,
all you gotta do is run the round and go
catch a ball. But I mean you can't just run
the lines on the paper, and there's different reads you've
got to make and all this stuff. So I mean
playing a quarterback kind of seeing the field that way
probably helped me a little bit as a receiver as
I learned it. But I mean it's just a completely
(16:37):
different position to play, and I had to learn so
many techniques and I'm thankfully my dad was a receiver
at Hillsdale where I ended up going, so he helped
me out a lot and we spent a line a
lot of time together working on my craft as a receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And it's no joke in this offense playing wide receiver too,
with the splits and the timing and everything that Jared
is so specific about. What was that learning curve too?
Coming here?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Was it a lot?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Was a lot more than what you did at Arkansas
when you transferred there.
Speaker 6 (17:03):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 8 (17:04):
I mean everything is so like pinpoint, Like you said,
you know all the coordinators and especially Jaredissow, you know,
nitpicking about everything how everything needs to be because everything
has a brime or reason to it. It's not like, hey,
you make you go and get in that split for
a reason, or you want to run this route this
way just because I want it. It's because that's the
stuff that works against the defenses that were going against.
(17:24):
So you really got to lock into the game plan,
getting your playbook and see how things shake out on
the field when you're out of practice.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We've seen you become bigger and bigger part of these
offense the last few weeks. I think over twenty offensive
snaps the last three weeks. Khalif Raymond's dealing with an
ankle injury, will see if he's available on Thursday. The
expectation if he can't go, you will have a much
bigger role. You're really not a rookie anymore at this point,
right after after eleven games, I'm curious as you evaluate
(17:53):
your first couple months in the league, what do you
think spend your biggest asset and what do you what's
the one thing maybe you want to focus on improving
the most.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Yeah, I mean, i'd say my biggest thing is just
my versatility.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
Obviously.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
You know, people look at me and they damn you
think I'm a tight end just because of my size.
But I mean, you know, you see me running my forty.
I got some speed to me and I have some elusiveness.
So I just feel like I bring a lot of versatility.
I can play multiple positions on the field, inside, outside,
I can block, so that I definitely think that's like
my biggest strength is just my versatility. And then what
(18:26):
was the other part of it?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Just what's one thing? Yeah, you want to continue to
kind of build and work on. What's one thing that
jumps out to you in that regard?
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Yeah, I'd say just like my overall craftiness. Obviously.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Right now I'm so focused on like doing it the
right way and you know, locking in what it is,
how it looks on the sheet. But I mean as
a receiver, you know, you gotta have some savvy to you, so,
you know, making, separating at the top, releasing and stuff
like that.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
So just all that stuff. I really want to continue
to work.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
On Thanksgiving Obviously tradition as a Lions fan, you watched
a ton Just how surreal is it now to be
playing in this game. Probably a ton of family coming
over from West Michigan. You could have a big role
in this game as well. How much have you been
looking forward to this week and this game?
Speaker 8 (19:12):
Yeah, it's obviously super special, And obviously being a Lions
fan growing up and the tradition that it is watching
the Lions play every Sunday was something I really look
forward to. Obviously I look forward to Grandma's cooking and
Thanksgiving Thanksgiving meal, but I was always number two to
watching the Lions play. And for you know, a long time,
we didn't have a lot of success, but you know,
last year, I think we broke a pretty long streak
(19:33):
of losses on things.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Six or seven in a row.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, so I want to keep that rolling.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
And it's cool that I'm going to be a part
of it, and my family's coming out this way, so
it's cool that we're gonna have Thanksgiving on the on
the East side this year as opposed to the West side.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Not just Thanksgiving though too. I mean it's Green Bay,
a team that you guys lost to Week one. Obviously
huge game with division implications, playoff implications.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
How different of a football.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Team are you guys since all the way back in
Week one.
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, we've definitely learned a lot, and it's
nice now we got some scout games we can watch
the Packers. Obviously, going into Week one, you never know
what you're gonna get, so it's it's good to get
the we can get some scout tape on them, kind
of see what their tendencies are and get that film.
But like you said, it's obviously a huge game for us,
and really for I mean for both of us, us
(20:25):
and the Packers. Like you said, we lost that the
first one, so we definitely got a chip on our shoulder.
But I mean, it's not like they're gonna let off
the gas by any means, and it's gonna be, you know,
huge implications for kind of the playoff picture going forward.
So you never want to put too much importance on
a game. We want to treat every game the same.
But This one's definitely gonna have a big impact in
the rest.
Speaker 6 (20:43):
Of the season.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
From the outside looking at it seems like you stepped
in a pretty good situation with Scottie Montgomery. You know,
in that room with with veterans like you know, Khalif, Raymond,
A'man Ross, Saint Brown. How perfect of a situation has
that been Having kind of that experience in that room.
Speaker 8 (20:58):
For you, it's just been incredible. The leadership from Scotty
Montgomery is something that I really appreciate. I remember, even
coming in my visit, I just I knew that was
something that I would see myself really thriving under. And
I really appreciated his leadership, not only on the football field,
because he's I mean, he's incredibly smart. He knows everything offensively, defensively,
like he's just such a like a football guru. And
(21:20):
then just I mean, everyone knows the receiver room that
we have, so just be able to step into that
and look up to guys like Satan Jmo and Khalif
and even TK. I mean that dude's so versatile and
he's been He's been hanging around here for a long time.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
So just be able to sit behind all those guys.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
And learn from them and now be able to play
with them on the field. Is it's been, It's been
very beneficial for me.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I'm excited to see you have a bigger role.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Are you excited to kind of have that that bigger
role down the stretch too? And and Dan Campbell said
this week he said, look, it's coming. His breakout game
is coming. We see it on the practice field. We
know that the potential is there and it's coming. What
does that mean that confidence coming from the head coach.
Speaker 8 (22:00):
Yeah, I mean that's definitely a confidence booster. But it's
not something you know, you can go into the game
and you can force Like it's got to come with time.
So it's not like I'm going into every game like,
oh man, I hope this is the one, Like I
really hope you know.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
This is my breakout game. Like I just go into
the game. I gotta do my job. I just gotta
do what I gotta do. Unto the ball comes my way,
and so be.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It on the ball comes your way, you catch it
one hand, two hands. It hasn't mattered this year. A
couple of great catches. Hopefully you have another great catch.
It touchdown to against Green Bay like you did Week one.
Last question, what's the must on the table? You talked
about the cooking Thanksgivings coming east? What has to be
on Isaac's play on Thanksgiving?
Speaker 8 (22:35):
About half the play as mashed potatoes, gravy corn on top.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, good luck to you on Thursday, your first hit
at the Thanksgiving Today tradition as a player, Go have
that big game. Appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Welcome back to the twenty in the Huddle podcast. I'm
very happy to welcome in Mike Spotford. He does great
job as the editor of Packers Dot.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Huh, Mike, thanks for joining me. Appreciate you.
Speaker 7 (23:03):
Hey, you bet, thanks for having me tim short week.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
This is I think what the twenty third meeting we've
had here on Thanksgiving. So we're familiar with this, we
us a little bit more than you.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
But but just how tough.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Are these short weeks for the players, for the coaches,
for us quick to turning this around.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Not that the fans really care about us, but it's
it's tough. These short weeks are night it, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (23:28):
No doubt about it. I mean I don't know, you
know how the players do it? Quite frankly, to play,
you know, four quarters on a Sunday and then turn
around four days later and have to and have to
put their bodies through that again on a day where
you would really just normally be putting the pats back
on for the first time during the week to you know,
(23:49):
to get a practice in and you've got to go
play another game. I always think the Thursday games are
are really different for the road team versus the home
team too, because when you're getting on an airplane on
Wednesday to fly somewhere at least when you're playing at
home on Thursday, you know, you don't have that the
travel part of it where it almost feels like another
(24:11):
another day is taken away on a short week when
when you're the road team, but every team goes through
it at at some time or another. You guys are
used to hosting this game, and certainly the Packers have
played in Detroit on Thanksgiving a number of times, including
just two years ago.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
I talked to alex Anzelone's in the locker room yesterday
and I was just curious. I'm like, during a normal week,
like when do you start to like feel good, like
when is your body like ready to And he was like,
I start to feel like real good, Like my body's
good if I don't suffer an injury on Friday, on
Friday of a typical week, and now he's strapping it
up after playing an overtime game on Sunday. So it's
(24:54):
definitely tough on these players and coaches. But Mike, I
want to talk about this Packers defense. First of foremost
top five in the NFL in total defense, top five
and scoring defense held Minnesota, I think to one hundred
and forty five total yards on Sonny just four total
net yards in the second half. How good is that unit?
(25:14):
It was Michael Parsons, Mike, the missing piece to that.
You know, has he kind of tied it all together?
Speaker 7 (25:20):
Yeah, I mean, I would say Parsons is definitely a
guy who you know, he's taken a good defense and
kind of helped to put it over the top and
raise it to another level. Because the Packers were playing
pretty good defense down the stretch last year. In Jeff
Hafley's first year as defensive coordinator, things were really coming
together with Edger and Cooper coming into his own at
(25:40):
the end of his rookie year. He had other rookies
like Javon Bullard and Evan Williams. You know, they were
getting that experience in their first seasons. Then you know
you're bringing you're bringing all that back, and then right
before the start of the season you add Parsons to
the mix. So yeah, it's a unit quite frankly, that's
really had only one like bad game and that was
(26:02):
way back in Week four. It was a forty to
forty overtime tie at Dallas where suddenly, you know, the
Packers defense just didn't look like what we've seen the
rest of the year. But that was really the exception
and not the rule. And really what happened, you know
in the Vikings game is for the first time in
about a month, the Packers actually got a multi score lead.
(26:24):
They were able to build an eleven point lead. It
was seventeen to six early in the third quarter against
the Vikings, and once the Vikings you know, kind of
had to throw the ball, they couldn't rely on the
running game because they were down multiple scores. Then the
Packers pass rush just just overwhelmed them. And that's really
the formula for the Packers is to build a lead
(26:45):
and then turn the pass rush led by Parsons loose
on the opposition. But when the Packers have not had
that type of a lead, then the defense doesn't necessarily
play like that. It's a lot harder to just pin
your ears back and go after the quarterback when you
in a tight down to the way or game. So
that's those are the kind of the differences we've seen
with this unit throughout the course of the year.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
When you talk about building a lead, you look at
this team offensively, just the weapons on the outside at receiver.
I know they lost their tight end, that was a
big loss for them, but you know, Josh Jacobs is
one of the better running backs in this league. You
look at the statistics and I think they're thirteenth and
thirteenth offentually, so they're kind of right in the middle
of the pack in the NFL. But just personnel wise,
(27:28):
it seems from the outside looking in they should maybe
be a little bit better than that. What's maybe been
some of the inconsistencies on that side of the football
where they haven't been able to build those big leads,
pin their ears back and let that defense eat.
Speaker 7 (27:42):
Yeah, the biggest issues that have cropped up over the
course of the year. Kind of holding the Packers offense
back have been penalties, and as was the case just
a couple of times in the Eagles game and in
the Giants game where the drop passes. Now drop passes
were an issue for the last season in twenty twenty four.
They seem to have kind of cleaned that up through
(28:04):
the first half of twenty twenty five, but then they
had a couple of games where again the catching of
the ball just wasn't clean and it cost them penalty wise.
The offense has just had throughout the course of the years,
had way too many pre snap penalties, whether it be
the fall starts or illegal motion or illegal formation with
(28:25):
guys lining up wrong, just the mental mistakes that have
compounded and made things difficult for the offense, and in
certain situations the last two weeks against the Giants and
the Vikings, the pre snap penalties knock on wood for
the Packers have kind of gone away. They feel like
if that part of their offensive game is cleaned up,
(28:46):
then things start to look more consistent, more productive on offense,
So they're hoping that that's behind them, But of course
now you're going to be going into an indoor stadium,
a crazy Detroit crowd, you know Thanksgiving Day that you know,
the noise is going to be there, the crowd, it's
going to bring it. So the Packers have to stay
on their p's and q's with regard to, you know,
keeping those pre snap penalties at bay for this offense
(29:08):
to be in the position it wants to be.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah, it's crazy. You mentioned that drops.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Detroit was the best team in the NFL last year
in terms of fewest amount of drops drop percentage. Packers were,
you know, down at the bottom of the lee. But
that's been an issue for Detroit now this year. Those
have cropped up very steady. Hand on Ron Saint Brown
has had a few, Jamison Williams has had the issue.
So it's just interesting how year over year some of
(29:32):
those statistics and some of those things can just kind
of flip up side down. Mike short weight means injuries
are always a storyline. I'm just curious how are the
Packers health wise? The injury report on Monday looked pretty good,
is what's the opinion of Josh Jacobs, Maybe some of
those other guys injury wise in their availability for Thursday.
Speaker 7 (29:54):
Yeah, I mean, on that long list of guys on
the on the injury report, I would say the two
the biggest things, The two biggest pieces of news as
far as that estimation on Monday was that both Josh
Jacobs at running back and kway Walker at linebacker were
estimated as limited participants, so they may be on their
way back to be able to play on Thursday, after
(30:16):
both of those guys missed the game this past Sunday
against Minnesota. So those are probably the two biggest ones
to watch. And then the other one is Keishawn Nixon,
the Packers' number one corner He left the game against
the Vikings with a shoulder stinger. He did not return.
Kamal Hadden came off the bench to replace him. Nixon
was estimated as a DNP for Monday on the injury report,
(30:41):
so very up in the air as to whether he
will be able to come back. But the other side
is that Nate Hobbs, another cornerback who has missed some
games now with a knee injury. He was estimated as
limited that he would be back in practice, So whether
he's potentially in the mix at cornerback on Thursday, well
we'll have to keep an eye on that, and as
(31:01):
we all know, I mean, we'll kind of find out
the final word ninety minutes before kickoff on.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
All these guys.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, last time these two teams played, it seems like
so long ago, Mike, you know, Week one at Lambeau.
It seems like almost a last season. Two obviously very
different teams that at this point in the season. But look,
the Packers handed to two Lions week one. I mean,
they won by two touchdowns. It really never was a contest.
(31:27):
I'm curious now you look two three months later, what's
the biggest concern for green Bay coming to Detroit on Thursday?
Speaker 4 (31:37):
What's what's what?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Are they looking at it as something that they have
to do if they're gonna escape Ford Field with a
victory and a season sweep of Lions.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I don't like to
oversimplify things, because this game is never simple and it's complicated.
But if you if you want to break it down
into a into a really succinct SoundBite from the Packers perspective,
it's tackle Jumior Gibbs and block Aiden Hutchinson. Because those
from green Bay's perspective, those are the two guys who
can give you a really long day on either side
(32:10):
of the ball. And when you go back to Week one,
as you said, it feels like it was forever ago.
It feels like it was last season. Jamiir Gibbs and
David Montgomery were kind of, you know, splitting time and
it was very much an uneven workshare back then at
the beginning part of the season. We've seen Jamiir Gibbs
really come on as a dangerous, big time home run
(32:31):
hitter who has become an even bigger part of this offense,
at least in my opinion, as the season has gone
on for the Lions. And obviously the game he had
last week against the Giants was just out of this world,
So that rises to the top of the list. And
the other thing with Hutchinson back in Week one, the
Packers were able to neutralize Hutchinson, but that was also
(32:51):
his first game back from the long layoff last year,
after the really rough injury and the long rehab and
all that. And we've seen Aiden Hutchinson as the sea
and has gone along get back to being a lot
more like the pre injury Aiden Hutchinson that we had seen.
And I think the Packers have to be ready for
Hutchinson's best on Thursday, and they've got to They've got
(33:11):
to find a way to minimize his impact as well.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Mike, how fun is this race in the NFC North
right now? You know, obviously, look give Chicago credit, right,
they're finding ways to win games. It hasn't been pretty,
but look, you never apologize for wins in this league.
At least that's a philosophy here in Detroit. I'm sure
it is with Ben Johnson in Chicago. You knew the
Packers were gonna be right there. You knew Detroit was
(33:35):
gonna be right there. In Minnesota obviously having a little
bit of quarterback issues, and when you have that, it's
tough to consistently win in this league. But for those
three teams, just how fun has this been? And and
look from a Packers perspective, I think you guys, five
of your last seven are against division opponents, so you
guys control your own destiny. But just overall, Mike, how
(33:58):
fun do you expect this finish in the NFC North
to be? And how big is Thursday's game because of that?
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (34:05):
I mean, I honestly, I think I think the winner
of Thursday's game in Detroit, you know, puts themselves in
a pretty good position to be able to win the
division and the loser is going to have a very
hard time. I think winning the division, it's gonna be
you're gonna be looking more at the wild card scenarios,
I think than possible division championships. There's still a long
(34:27):
way to go. But you know, the Bears at eight
and three, the Packers at seven three and one, the
Lions at seven and four, and here we are, the
Packers and Lions are playing each other. The Lions and
the Bears still have to play one more game. The
Packers and the Bears have two games left to play
against one another. So this can go any number of
different ways. And here we are, you know, hitting the
(34:47):
holidays and the fact that the Packers and Lions are
playing on Thursday and then the Bears are playing the
Eagles on Friday. I mean before we even get to
the weekend, there, you know, can be all of us
shifting around in the in the NFC North just based
on these these Thursday Friday results. So it's been fun
so far, and I think it's I think it's only
going to get more intense as we get down the
stretch here.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It'll be fun to Chicago Detroit week eighteen.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Ben Johnson, if he's in the mix, that could be
a fun little storyline, but it's a big one Thursday.
I agree with you, the winner definitely has the edge.
It makes this matchup on Thanksgiving really really big in
terms of the NFC, NFC Playoff picture and the NFC
North Division title. Mike, I appreciate you taking the time,
great stuff as always. You can catch all Mike's stuff
on packers dot com and safe travels to Detroit and
(35:34):
we'll see you on Thursday.
Speaker 7 (35:34):
My friend sounds good tim Happy Thanksgiving.
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