Jamey Robinson #20 | Fourth Street Live

Episode 20 – Jamey Robinson | Bank Robbery to RedemptionJamey Robinson’s journey shows how far recovery can take you. After relapse pulled him back into a life of chaos that included bank robberies and prison time, Jamey found his way back to sobriety and a new way of living. In this episode, he shares raw stories of addiction, incarceration, and the powerful hope that comes with choosing recovery again.
#FourthStreetLive #JameyRobinson #AddictionRecovery #SobrietyJourney #PrisonStories #SecondChances #LifeAfterPrison #RecoveryPodcast #Redemption #BiggestLittleCity

⁠⁠⁠The Railrunner | Book⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Struggling with Addiction? 1-800-662-HELP

Intro music: “You and Whose Army?” by Radiohead. Licensed courtesy of Warner Chappell Music and Radiohead. All rights reserved.

Fourth Street Live is hosted by Jacob Green, a Reno-based author, musician, biker, and storyteller, bringing raw conversations about recovery, motorcycles, and local culture.

Episode Transcript

(00:59):
So where where are you from here?
I'm from Bakersfield. Bakersfield, CA.
Is that where you grew up most of your life?
No, I actually grew up in a little town called Oakley, CA
right outside the Bay Area. Gotcha.
So yeah, going like towards Petaluma, right?
It's so if you would be going like over the hill, Walnut
Creek, Antioch, then you would go into Oakland, the backside,

(01:20):
so a little bit. You're good.
Yeah, you're good. Yeah, I do.
I work on the railroad. There you go.
I work on the railroad. So I work all the way around,
all all around there. I work in like, like I work at
Bart now, you know what I mean? We're doing the Bart railroad
now, Maine. So get to see all the loving

(01:41):
parts of that area, which is kind of sad in that area now,
man, you know? You know, it was so awesome when
I was growing up. I bet it's changed so much, so
much more population, but. Yeah, I feel like Bakersfield
would have been a cool town backin the day.
Bakersfield, I went, my uncle lived there when I was a kid and
we went there one time. And all I remember about

(02:03):
Bakersfield, I don't remember the oil fields.
I don't remember any of that, but I remember cotton for as far
as you can see, you know, So yeah, it's it's pretty crazy.
Yeah, I work on. What is it?
It's the we talked about this, we just talked about this.
It's the San Joaquin Valley Railroad that goes from there to

(02:26):
man, almost LA, you know what I mean?
So. So what do you do for the
railroad? I'm I'm the GM from a
construction. Company.
Oh, OK. Yeah.
So yeah, buy my book and it'll tell you all of it, bro.
All right? All right.
Awesome. So when did you get sober?
So my sobriety birth date is September 1st 2006. 1006, yeah.

(02:46):
So tell us a little bit about it.
Tell us. Got it all start.
For you all. Right.
Well, for where it all started for me.
So you would have to go way back.
I had heard part of your that you had started at an early age.
So my mother was a partier. She was kind of that, you know,

(03:09):
the 50s, sixties generation. And so I grew up partying, you
know, at a very young age. It was, well, some of my
earliest memories were she had abunch of friends over and they
had their kids there and we theykind of ended up putting us in
like a wrestling match and whoever won got to stay up with

(03:32):
the adults. And so at at five years old, I
remember getting this kid in a choke lock, you know, basically
just a headlock, but choking mountain.
I got to stay up with the adults, and I remember still
drinking. It was TJ Swan, TJ Swan wine.

(03:52):
It was like $2.00 a bottle. And it kind of started from
there. I can roll a joint.
When I was five years old, the first time I fixed dope, I was
13 and you know, I had two younger sisters.
And so when my mom would spin off on one of her runs, I had to

(04:15):
fend for them. And so that also brought in
another factor where I would go to the store and I would
shoplift when I was very young, you know, and so and what time.
Is this? This would have been in Gustine,
California, little bitty agricultural town.
And it's, it's kind of strange, right, because my dad's side of
the family very wealthy, been inCalifornia since the 1800s came

(04:40):
during the gold rush. My, my great, great, great
grandfather was a dredge master with the California Mining
Company. And so when the dredges went up
the rivers, they would, the, they would throw rocks and rocks
and rocks. I'm sure you've seen it where,
you know, there's down the rivers, there's just these
mounds of rocks. Well, they would give them as,

(05:02):
as an incentive, they could buy that land for pennies on the
dollar. So he never took his pay.
My family's from Boston and, andyou know, they, when he came, he
had money, so he took all his pay in land.
So we, we had a bunch of land. So they're all very kind of well
to do. But I was adopted.

(05:24):
So I was adopted into my, my dadadopted me when I was six.
So the family, he died when I was nine.
No, no, he died when I was 6, adopted me when I was five, He
died. So the family kind of they, they
didn't really, I was just adopted family to them, you
know, so, so I stayed with my mom and there was a lot of a lot

(05:50):
of drugs, a lot of partying and a lot of craziness, you know, a
lot of insanity that that went along with, with that kind of
lifestyle. But my fall back was always, if
everything's got harder or difficult, I was a pretty darn
good criminal, you know, I was aa pretty good smart thinker kind

(06:13):
of criminal. I track the mentality for sure,
yeah. So I put thought into it, you
know what I mean? I'm not saying that I was good
as far as like. You know, you're just more dumb.
Yeah, I just, I put thought intoit.
So Fast forward through, I'm going to skip a whole lot of the

(06:34):
party and then all that stuff because really it's to me, it's
it's not relevant as far as as far as my story goes.
So. You like the effect produced.
By drugs and alcohol. Yes, Sir.
They were the ends to the means for me.
That was just normal. It was just, you know, it was
normal. It was like breathing.
Yeah. Nice.
Me too. Yeah.

(06:54):
Yeah, it was my it it just. That was part of it.
They just came with it. You know, it's also harder
because growing up in a small town like that, man, I think
about that. What the fuck else is there to
do? You know what I'm saying?
So I, I think about that often, you know, and that's why there's
these little tiny towns that I've all visit and the

(07:16):
recovery's profound. And it's like, man, no wonder,
you know? And well, and so in in the town
where I was at, all the kids were partying a lot of alcohol,
predominantly Mexican and and usually first generation
Americans. So, you know, they, they were,
their parents were more alcohol tolerant, you know, and so I

(07:41):
remember, you know, kegger parties in 8th grade going to
people's garages and have like garage dances.
You guys are probably too young for that kind of stuff.
But it used to be a thing back in the 80s, but and doing that
kind of stuff. And so it was just like the
normal state of being for me, right.

(08:03):
And then so you get to in 1989, I met a gal.
We got married and I had my my first kid and still partying,
you know, and and for me, it never really the consequences of

(08:24):
my actions. Never really.
We're never really present. All right, Yeah, I get a little
stuff like this or you know, like, but not really any
criminal stuff. No going to jail, but just
family not wanting you around orstuff like that, you know, just
the stuff that that goes with that.
So my ex-wife, my wife at the time, she was a party girl too.

(08:53):
And so we had my first daughter and then we had my second
daughter and I went off the rails.
I started doing a lot more meth stuff and it started to really
be a problem. You know, the guns and, and
stuff like that was part of it. And so my kids were taken by

(09:18):
CPS. And now that was a big thing for
me because being adopted and, and the stuff that I went
through, I always said that I would be a good parent.
And so they were taken from me and that was my first bout into
sobriety. All right, my first time.
And, and I went into it and I was pretty serious about it.
And I, I, you know, I joined a very, a very intense group of

(09:45):
people that worked a, a pretty intense program and I managed to
stay clean for, for 10 years. But, and I, I, I say this a lot
of the times when, when I'm talking to folks that the life
that sobriety gave me got in theway of my sobriety life, you

(10:07):
know, and I stopped doing the things that I was doing when I
got silver. And a wise guy once told me
that, you know, that there's going to come a time when the
only thing between you and a drink or you and that first shot
or whatever your your thing is, is going to be your conscious

(10:31):
contact with something bigger than you.
Yeah, man. Wow.
And I had let mine slip and so. Where did it start?
Because that's that's that's that's a that's a huge theme in
the rooms that I see often. And it does it.
Did it start with not going to meetings anymore or did it start
with? Well, it.

(10:53):
Not talking to sponsors. Well, what, what had happened
with me was I, I became employable, all right, and I'm
not, you know, I'm a pretty goodemployee, OK?
I, I, I work hard and I'm, I'm kind of a pit bull when it comes
to work. So I jump into it and it's like

(11:16):
that for me with everything. OK, I'm, I'm addicted with
everything and it, the good things, the bad things, it don't
matter. You know, softball 100%, you
know, golf 100%, drugs 100%, youknow, whatever it is, it's 100%.
So I, I got a job with this guy's, it was a smaller outfit

(11:38):
and I was doing all of the Starbucks in Northern
California. So I was gone all the time.
So meetings weren't really goingto happen because I was always
working, you know, 1820 hours a day.
I would, it was at the point when things really started to,
to kind of get bad for me was I was working and I would go to

(11:58):
this Starbucks, I'd work until Icouldn't work anymore.
Go out in my truck, sleep for a couple hours in the parking lot,
get up and go finish the job, goto the next job.
And I was doing that and again and my ex-wife, she had started
using and I was sending her and this is back at 9094 or

(12:20):
something like that. I'm really bad with time.
So. So you were.
Were you building the Starbucks just back then?
I was doing all the. Plumbing in them.
Got it. I was doing all the plumbing.
I've been a plumber for almost 40 years.
Got you. So she's she had started using
and, you know, I mean, I wasn't there.
So she started doing all the stuff that came with that and

(12:44):
and I I was not equipped to dealwith it.
All right. I was not equipped to deal with
all the things that were going on.
So I was at home one day and I get a call from a realtor that
the realtor that had told me andsays, hey, Jamie, is everything
going, going OK. And I'm like, yeah, why?

(13:04):
She says, well, you haven't madea house payment in six months.
I've been sending $2300 home a week.
You know what I mean? It's like, I would just send
that money home. And so I'm, I'm hitting her up
and I'm like, what's going on? Because at the time, I didn't
know that she was using. All right.
I didn't, I had no idea. There were things, there were,
there were signs that were in front of my face, but I just

(13:26):
didn't, you know, I chose not tosee him as the best way I can
think about it, you know, So it comes into a big old fight and I
find out she's using and so I cut off the money.
Well, you know, I mean, you cut off the money, do a doping,
they're going to do what, you know, a doping does.
So she started running around and doing all this and doing all

(13:48):
that and trying to do things to punish me.
And it was to where my mental state because I was, I was cool
just going to work and doing my thing, you know, I wasn't using
or anything like that, but I wasn't spiritually fit, all
right. And if there's anything I can,

(14:09):
you know, any message that I canpass on to anybody at any time
when I'm I'm talking to him is look, OK, sobriety is like a
battery, all right? And if you're charging it,
you're going to be OK. If you're not doing anything to
stay sober, then you're doing things to get loaded and.

(14:30):
And I think that I'm of the typethat believes that this is a
disease, right? And there's no cure to this
disease yet. And my only reprieve is a daily
reprieve. And it's contingent on the
maintenance of my spiritual condition, right?

(14:51):
So if I'm not maintaining my spiritual condition like you're
talking about, then I don't get that fucking reprieve.
And you have enough days strung together with, with just sober
or just clean, man, It starts fucking your, your knuckles
start to get wide again, you know, real quick.
And I love that analogy of the, of the, of the battery.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

(15:12):
Yeah. So and that's it.
Yeah. And, and you may, you may I want
to back up real quick, because this is something that's been
talked about is you were you were mentioning that your your
ex, you didn't catch the signs, right.
I don't know about you, but for me it's, it's a lot like the
people around me that are using heavy.

(15:34):
I don't see that there ever was as bad as I was.
So I just, it's like I'm so ignorant because I'm just like,
man, Well, you're not sudden catalytic converters out of cars
and fucking, you know what I mean?
You must not be as bad as me. So I just is that kind of how
you felt about that? And he just, or you just got on
the road too long, you know, that kind of thing.
You know what? I.
Think that I just wasn't presentenough to where I would see the

(15:55):
signs, you know, I wasn't there enough to, to be there.
And but then when you look back in in retrospect, right.
Like, I, I came home one time and it was like I, I got in at
2:00 in the morning and she was gone.
And my kids are in bed alone. And I, we had, I don't know if
you guys remember, but Nextel's.OK.
So a Nextel was a phone that waslike a walkie talk.

(16:17):
Yeah. OK.
Yeah. So I, we had Nextel's.
And so I get on the Nextel and I'm like, you know, hey, where
are you? She's, oh, I'm at Walmart.
I'm like, the kids are in bed. She's.
Yeah, I had to get stuff for their lunch.
So I'm like, OK, cool. That makes sense.
You know what I mean? But looking back, it's like, OK,
well, wait a minute, you know, And there were just so many
looking back, there were so manydifferent signs And.

(16:40):
And you know what? For a long time, I was very,
very angry and very bitter. Very bitter with her.
You know what? OK, to be honest, there was a
period of my life where I was very, very angry and very, very
bitter. All right.
And we'll we can get into that. You know that that's a little
bit further in the story, but go.

(17:01):
Ahead so. The, the period of time and it
was a short period of time that,that this was going on, But to
me it was so heinous. It felt like forever.
I'm a, I'm a pretty old fashioned kind of guy.
I, I never cheated on anyone that I've ever been with, ever.

(17:26):
I, I just don't do it. I don't believe in it.
It's, it's part of who I am. And so when that kind of stuff
was going on, the infidelity andstuff, and it was, it was brutal
stuff, right? That, that really, it kind of
put me in a really bad place. So then I had this one friend

(17:47):
from before I got sober that I hadn't cut off.
He was, he was someone that I, Istill had, you know, contact
with and allowed to be around meand my family.
Well, he had come over. He'd just gotten out of the
joint. He'd come over and him and I had
this trailer in the property. And that was like where my kids

(18:08):
had their sleepovers and stuff and him and her were out there
in the trailer and they were, you know, doing whatever they
and I was in the house watching the Steelers in Miami.
I still remember the Steelers inMiami and he comes into the
house. He's like, hey, man wants to
talk to you. She, I I wish I hadn't because I

(18:29):
would have liked to without her permission.
But anyway, I'll bleep it. OK, I'll bleep it.
I got you. Yeah.
Yeah, you're good. Don't worry about it.
But anyway, she wants to see youout in the trailer.
And I'm like, what does she want?
She just wants to talk to you. I'm like, all right, I go out
there and she takes a bag of dope and throws it on the table.
She says, look, I want to get loaded with you so we can start

(18:50):
our clean day again. And I looked at her.
I'm like, you know, when I'd go back in.
All right. They, they keep on and they keep
on. It's.
So you guys really you want, youwant me to get loaded with you
that this is what you want? OK.
I took the bag and I did a shot and six weeks later, I'm robbing
banks. So I yeah.

(19:15):
That hanging. I know I'm I have a problem
because all that makes sense to me.
You know what I'm saying? Oh my God.
Oh God. You're.
Like, hey, you want to start over?
You know what I mean? Yeah.
And. So I robbed 7 banks.
Hell yeah. And it it was over a period of
time, but I had, I was so I don't know if you guys know the

(19:40):
Scott Peterson case. OK, So Scott Peterson is that
guy in Modesto, CA, which is where I lived at the time, that
killed his wife, an unborn baby and took him out in the Bay.
And it was, it was national news, national news.
He had a a mistress in Fresno. And well, the detective, the

(20:01):
lead detective on that case was assigned to me.
And now just to be clear, OK? I wasn't just robbing banks.
I was doing well. They brought a task force into
Stanislaus County because they thought an organized crime ring
had moved in. Understood.
And it was me, got it? It was me.
I was off the rails, OK? I, I just, I was off the rails.

(20:24):
I, I, I kind of gave up, you know what I mean?
I just gave up on being a human,on being a, you know, a father
on everything. So I was, I would rob a bank and
I would come to Reno, OK. Wash the money, party like a

(20:45):
rock star. Go back when I I didn't care
about money. What money matter to me?
If I ran out, I'd just go get more that, you know, Yeah.
How are you washing it? Going to the.
Casinos throwing it in the. Machines, yeah.
And then pulling it out, yeah. And.
Can't do that. Anymore.
Maybe. Maybe you ruined it for the rest
of us. Well, I probably.
Did I? I ruined a lot of shit for a lot

(21:05):
of people, I'll tell you that. Yeah, but.
So the FBI got involved in and Igot across state lines.
Right. No, because.
I was robbing banks. Well, that makes.
Sense and the the. Propensity for violence was
steadily increasing. OK, when I started I was doing
it with, you know, toy guns. And by the time I was done, I

(21:28):
had a sawed off 12 gauge. You know the time was coming.
Were you? So were you?
No. Passing were you?
How were you? I was.
Doing takeovers, you just take. Over.
So you were you trying to get all the way back there?
No, I wasn't. I wasn't doing tills, I wasn't
going into a vault. Yeah, just.
Getting till money, yeah, yeah, I get it.
Yeah, I was doing. Takeovers so I would go in whip

(21:49):
out the gun and tell all the tellers to put the money on the
counter. All of this all right and this
is this is the part to me that is is so profound.
I I was not a violent person. I was not you know, that was not

(22:10):
really my thing all right usually if if there was conflict
or anything like that, don't getme wrong, I'm not a backup guy,
but I'm not a start stuff guy. I'm not a that's not my kind of
thing. I was a pretty pretty much a
stand up straight up guy and so I had prostituted all my morals

(22:31):
and all my beliefs. I'd given all of them away.
So I2 stepped with the FBI for about 6 months and got hit by
SWAT a couple different times trying to, to, you know, to
catch me up. And the, the last time I got

(22:57):
caught by SWAT, they took me into the woodland police station
and they've got me in this holding room and James Brocchini
comes in and he's like, well, soon.
He slaps down a, a picture of mycrime and my nephew.
And he's how do you recognize that guy?

(23:18):
I'm like, no. And he's, he doesn't look
familiar. And I mean, it's my it's it's a
close up of me to you, my nephew, you know what I mean?
And it's no glasses, no hat. No, it's my nephew.
And he's. So you don't recognize that guy.
I said, well, he kind of looks like Elvis, you know, and and
he's OK. All right, wise guy.
Well, hey, just so you know, we're waiting on a teller to

(23:41):
come here from Modesto, that as soon as she IDs you, you're
done. And I'm like, OK, well, then I
guess I'll wait. And I just put my head down.
So a couple hours later, he comes back in and I lift my head
up because I was I was just deadtired running and I thought it
was over. He slaps down a folder and he

(24:02):
goes, well, Mr. Robinson, I got to give it to you.
You're pretty smart. You're pretty smart.
Now, the teller, she could an idea and we're going to let you
go. And I've start to sit up and I
start to part. You know what I mean?
I'm like, what does this guy forreal?
He goes, yeah, we, we got to letyou go.
We can't hold you. And I start to like, cool, you
know, I started to, like, rustlemyself up together to get out of

(24:25):
there. And he just, his whole demeanor
and attitude changes. And he says, but you know what,
you stupid motherfucker? I want you to know I bust 30 of
you a fucking month, all right? Because you're too fucking
stupid to stop. And when you get caught, the
next time you do it, this is thelast space you're going to see.

(24:46):
And I'm sitting there in my headand I'm thinking, yeah, all
right, motherfucker, I've been dancing with you guys for
months. You ain't never going to catch
me. And I walk out.
Yeah, so about two months later,OK, I, I, I tried to kind of
straighten up and go, you know, to go back.
Didn't quit using, didn't quit partying, but I tried to to not

(25:06):
do any more, you know, crazy shit and but you weren't.
Treating the deficiencies, No. Well, yeah, the, the disease was
in, in full progression, you know.
So as we do, I did what I do andI went and I hit another bank
and they knew my MO at this point.

(25:26):
They knew what I was doing. So I took off to Jackson
Rancheria and I was there and gambling the money and doing,
you know what I do. And they caught me and they took
me down. And this time they'd had Mark
Bills and so they had me and they, they take me to, to jail.
And there's something that I, I didn't talk about, OK, so before

(25:49):
any of this happened, when, when, before any of this had,
you know, like before the getting loaded or whatever, I'd
gone to my sponsor and I asked my sponsor, you know, to help me
out because I said, man, I'm in a bad place, all right?
I'm not doing well. And he had kind of shifted away

(26:10):
because it'd been so long since I've been in in touch with him.
He kind of went the church route, all right.
And he was doing the church thing and he said, well, hey,
man, you know what? I'm sorry you're going through
that. I'll pray for you.
And that was all he said. And so I had really, I, I had no
network because I, you know, setaside my, my recovery network.

(26:33):
And so I felt left out, right. And so now I get busted.
And I had update they gave me, well, it was a 10 year sentence,
OK, It was nine, 116 months, 116months.
So I remember and it's, and I hope to God I never forget this
because when they sentenced me to 116, I was like, Oh well,

(26:55):
shit, 100, man, that ain't shit.You know what I mean?
That ain't shit. And then they send me to to
Victorville, to the USP. And that was a rocking and
rolling place. And now you know what, I've
never really been in any real trouble, you know what I mean?
Never. So I get on this yard and it was

(27:18):
a rocking and rolling place, allright.
And I was about four months intomy bit and I when I was fighting
my case and stuff like this, I kind of talked to some dudes
that have been around and they're like, look, man, just do
this and do that. You know, you ride with the
whites and you do this. And they gave me the political
breakdown. So I need to go in there and
stand on my own 2 feet, All right, don't back up.

(27:41):
Don't back down and just fuckingdo what you got to do.
So I'm in there. I'm about four months, all
right, And it dawns on me. I'm laying on my bunk and I'm
like, this has only been four months.
I'd already been through a couple riots.
I'd already been, you know, I, I, I'd seen some pretty, pretty
heinous shit. Son of a bitch.

(28:06):
This is I, I, I don't know how I'm going to, how I'm going to
get out of here. So.
So the they sentence you to 10 and you were going to do all 10
or do they? What did you say?
It's 80. Percent in the feds, they they
sentenced me to 116 months. Is what the sentence?
What the sentence? Was that's 100 and. 16 months,
that's the way the feds do it. They don't give you years, they

(28:27):
give you it's months off your offense level.
And my see so my the way it goesis they have this graph, OK, and
now your offense level goes up this way and your criminal
history category goes this way. OK, so.
That's OK, So my criminal. History category was a one, but
my offense level was A332 below the top all right.

(28:50):
So what happened was that put meinto a very higher security all
right. And so I'm, I'm at Victorville
and I've been there. So I manage, I, I stayed, you
know, pretty tight with the whites.
All right. Well, no, I stayed tight with
the whites. I, I stayed tight with the

(29:11):
whites. But the guy that was the yard
Rep at that time was supposed tobe this, you know, this guy
that, that the brand had sent over and, and, and this and
that. And he was making bad moves.
He, he got into to debt with the, the Mexicans on the yard

(29:32):
and they, they called the meeting and they said, hey, look
OK, all the whites got together.And, and so there were 1100
paises on the yard, which you know, just the Mexico, Mexicans,
cartel guys, stuff like that. 118 whites, 300 S siders, 300
blacks and about 120 others. We we had the lowest numbers on

(29:55):
the yard, so we had to pretty much stay pretty tight.
And he's a look, OK, we're we'regoing to have a meeting with the
Pies's and pending on how this goes.
You know, this could go bad. It could go either way.
And so they picked me and my nephew, my cry me and we were
boomers on the yard. So basically what that is, is is

(30:19):
we were guys that we kind of setoff to the side and we hit.
They gave me two pieces and I had a piece taped to this hand
and a peace tape to this hand. Peace knives, all right.
And so so they got bloody. They won't slip out your hand.
This is Jacob, the host of the 4th St.
Live podcast. And my new book, The Rail
Runner, inspired by my life on the railroad and being a

(30:42):
railroad contractor, is now for sale on Amazon and Barnes and
Noble. Please go check out my new story
if you're looking to escape reality for a few hours.
It's a great read. Support a local Reno author.
Thanks so much. I don't know about you guys, but
if you have ever been down on your motorcycle, gotten hit,
somebody, had no insurance, anything like that, you feel

(31:02):
like there's nobody around to help you out, but Law Tigers
motorcycle attorneys is the way to go.
You need to get these guys. Just save them in your phone if
you have to. Law Tigers is there to help
bikers. It's bikers for bikers.
These guys ride motorcycles and they will take care of you.
They're personally handling claims and will be the biggest

(31:23):
advocate for anybody on two wheels.
Check out Law Tigers, motorcycleattorneys and a sponsor of 4th
St. Life.
Thanks so much. What's up everybody?
Are you looking for custom vinyldecals for your business?
Go check out Vision Moto. Vision Moto can do everything
from support stickers for your motorcycle club, custom decals

(31:45):
for your dirt bikes or your Harley's, and anything that you
can think of Mark over at VisionMoto can get you taken care of a
local business right here in Reno, NV.
Go check out Vision Moto. Yeah, well, and so they would
get took, you know, And so we'resitting there on this bench and
we're just watching. If something kicks off, we're

(32:06):
just going to go in and book as many people as we could.
And I'm sitting there and thinking, Oh my God, I'm never
getting out of here this. And I'm going to do the rest of
my life in prison because I'm going to do what I have to do,
you know what I mean? And something changed.

(32:28):
Something in me clicked at that point, that time I stopped being
human. It just it, it just was gone,
all right. And now I'm just an animal, all
right, and running off the base instincts and I'm doing, you
know, whatever. So like I said, I've been a

(32:49):
plumber for a long time. So I ended up going into
facilities and I'm working in facilities.
I'm the plumber. And if you talk to anyone in the
joint, they'll tell you that theplumber is the guy.
All right, because I can go to any unit.
I go, I have unlimited access after lockdowns, whatever, it
doesn't matter. I go into the shoe.

(33:09):
I can take messages, I can do whatever.
I'm the I am the hub of transport on the on the yard.
So I do that and then this stuffgoes on.
And when this after this stuff'sdone with the with the paises
and nothing happened. OK, nothing happened.
But we had a meeting on the yardabout the yard rent.

(33:29):
All right. And I, I told, you know the
truth. I says, hey, man, this fucking
dude shouldn't be making calls for any of us, all right?
He's all with, you know, trying.I'm like, hey, man, what's up?
You know what I mean? What do you, what do you want to
do? And so basically everyone, I had

(33:54):
nothing really happened at that point, but everybody kind of
knew where I stood, all right? And everyone knew where he well,
he got into more trouble and ended up checking in because the
Mexicans were going to get him, all right.
So when he went off the yard, they asked me to be the yard
Rep. So now I'm I'm I'm making the
moves and calling the shots. The reason I brought up the

(34:20):
plumber thing is OK, so my boss,when I got there, all right,
they had these these heat exchangers in the back of the
units and you like that was restricted access.
All right, But I would go with my boss and I told him a couple
times, hey man, look, Escheidius, take me back there.

(34:40):
I'll fix these things and we'll have hot water.
All right, let's let's. And he's like, yeah, right.
OK, convict. I'm like, dude, look, I've been
a plumber for a long time. Take me back there.
I'll take care of it. So he took me back there one
time. I, I dialed him in.
I got the, the, the temperature transfer switches, OK, the coils
and swap those out. We hit, we had hot water.

(35:02):
We were getting things were werefixed.
Well, to get back there you go through the the officers lounge
and that's where they would likebe smoking and whatever.
So there it was, a tobacco free yard.
They quit tobacco in like 2006, something like that.
Fuck. Just before.
You got there, goddamn it. Yeah, so.
Is this a bad? Time to say that we're sponsored

(35:23):
by Johnson Plumbing for this episode.
So he would let me like, hit theashtray and take the cigarette
butts. All right.
And so I was taking those and I come back and now I can smoke.
Well, there were these two guys and they were on the crew and
they were kind of lanes, you know what I mean?
They were just, they they were not hip to the game.

(35:46):
Like, you know, the rest of us were hip to the game.
I don't know what their crimes were, but they were, you know,
they they should not have been on that yard.
Yeah, man. So they one time they're hey,
man, we want to go back there. And I'm like, no.
And they're like, dude, look, you're not the boss.
I said check this out, OK? You're not going to go back
there and fuck up my game. All right?

(36:07):
You guys staying out here? So they went to SIS, which is
the cops in the prison and they told them that my boss was
taking me back there and giving me heroin and I was bringing it
back on the yard and distributing on the yard.
They come back, he it's a Friday, he takes me to the food

(36:27):
service and he opens up the warehouse and he says, hey,
Robinson, go in there and grab whatever you want.
And that way I'd have food for the weekend while I went and
grabbed a couple blocks of fucking cheese.
OK, 5 LB blocks of that government ass cheese.
Grabbed those, brought them backto the unit.
OK, I cut them up into chunks and I was taken and given chunks
out in the units. Like, you know, I'd sell some of

(36:47):
these guys sell some of that. Well, so I asked, went to the
cameras and they see a dude going outside the gate, going to
food service, coming back and distributing packets like this.
And they're like, oh, it's on and cracking.
So they come and they put me in the bucket and they put me in
the shoe for six months, no contact.
The cops couldn't talk to me. No one could talk to me.

(37:09):
The only ones that would talk tome was the Inspector General and
the FBI. I wasn't doing drugs at that
time. I wasn't in the program, but I
wasn't doing drugs, all right. I wasn't, that wasn't my gig.
I was, you know, drink a little Pruno, whatever.
But I, I was told by people before that, hey, man, look, you
know, you get into the drug game, that's a bad game to get

(37:30):
into. It's it's a real good way to to
ruin yourself inside. So I'll cut all the the crap out
in between that. But so six months, seven months
they come and they let me out. Well, during that time, OK, that
I was in there, my security level because of the amount of
time I've been in dropped. So now I can leave the USB and

(37:53):
they've moved me over to a low at Terminal Island in Long
Beach. All right, freaking plus place.
I mean, just as far if you got to do time in prison, that was
the like the spot, that's like the.
White collar guy that was. Well, it was just, you're right
on the ocean from me to to you, we are to the water, 2 fences

(38:16):
right there. And it was just perfect.
The problem was I took me with me there.
Yeah, man, you know what I mean.And so when I tell you guys that
I I was an animal. I was an animal, all right?
I mean, I was, I was no longer human.
If if I told you something and you thought you had your own

(38:37):
opinion, you were getting knocked out, you know.
So anyway, as I got on a softball team and and I was
playing with these guys, and there were a couple guys that
that were different, all right? And I didn't know how they were
different, but they never were in the mix.

(38:58):
OK, They were with us, you know,they were, they were white
dudes. And now I, I'm one of the
fellas, right? I'm and when I say IA, lot of
people may not understand that, but when I say one of the
fellas, OK, my word was the, it was the rule.
All right, That was it. So one of them comes up to me
after one of the games and he's like, hey, man, check it out.

(39:21):
Me and me and a couple of the guys, we got this meeting and
we're and I'm like, what do you mean meeting?
They're like, well, you know, it's, it's a, a program meeting
and I don't want to we'll just say it's one of the programs,
all right? That's that's a fairway of
putting it. And I'm like, we'll, we'll,
we'll OK, miss me with that, bro.

(39:43):
OK, Been there, done that. Fuck you and fuck God, all
right. And he was dude, he's like,
sorry brother, sorry, you know what I mean?
And he bowed out, all right, first of all, and that's exactly
how I came at him, all right? I mean, that is exactly how I
came at him, right there alone was enough to, you know, for him

(40:04):
to if he wanted to do something,it was he was well within his
rights. But he just gracefully backed up
about 3 months later, I'm going to say we were, you know, cool,
hanging out, you know, doing whatever.
And he says, hey, man, look, OK,I know this ain't your gig, all
right? I understand and I respect that.

(40:25):
But look, we have some people coming in from outside and I
know that if you came, it would make it OK for other people to
come. And maybe, maybe they need it.
I'm like, OK, bro. And I, to this day, I, I, what I
say is that there was something looking out for me that I didn't

(40:47):
want looking out for me. You know what I mean?
That I didn't believe cared about me.
I think something was all right and looking back, I feel that
that that and I, you know, for me it's God.
For other people's it can be whatever it is all right, But
was looking out for me when I didn't even believe that there

(41:07):
was anything there to look out for.
So I go to this thing and it probably some of the happiest,
one of the happiest times of my of my time inside there was
looking back at at this particular period.

(41:31):
There's there's some benchmarks inside that I look back with
with fondness, and this is one of them.
So I go in there and it's a bunch of these ladies.
There's a, a meeting in Long Beach that that since closed,
but it was a very large fellowship is called Marina
Pacifica. And there were a bunch of ladies
that came in and some of them were drop dead gorgeous.

(41:54):
I mean drop dead smoking gorgeous.
And then there were like 3 or 4 of these little old ladies and,
and I know they wouldn't be upset, but Janice and Julie
little Bitty, probably 60 something years old alcoholic.
All right. They come in and they share

(42:16):
their story. And then there was this one guy
and this guy comes in and he's got these handlebar mustaches
and he's got arms like my legs. And he comes in and he's, you
know, he, he's, he's me. He's he's me.
And he's stand up there and he'ssaying, you know what, man?
I just got out. I just did 35 years in Quentin.
And I don't know about AAI, don't know about this shit.

(42:39):
I've been sober fucking a couplemonths.
But I know this. I don't want to go back.
And someone told me that if I could do this and if I could
make it in this, I don't have togo back to this day.
All right? I don't know you know how or
what, but I heard this dude, youknow, I heard him and he

(43:02):
connected. And the whole time he's looking
at me like I'm looking at you. And he's talking to me like I'm
talking to you. And I, it resonated with me, you
know, and so after the meeting, I'm kind of, you know, doing
the, you know, the homeboy shuffle, standing over with my
boys over the, the side, kind ofchecking out the chicks and
talking slick and whatever. And this hand comes and hits me

(43:23):
on the shoulder. And I, I shared about this the
other night at, at a, a place I was talking and inside, OK, you
don't walk up behind someone to touch them, you know, you just
don't. And I turn around and I look and
it's this dude. And he goes.
So what are you about? What?

(43:44):
What the fuck do you think? How about?
You know what I mean? Well, what?
And he's no man. What are you about?
And I didn't really have an answer to that.
You know, I mean, I I'm about fucking doing my time and
getting the fuck on what you know and says.
Well, you know, hope you keep coming back.

(44:06):
So I kind of heard something there and it was just just that
little spark of memory of what it used to be like when I tried
the first time, you know, So my buddy and, and he's my sponsor
and has been since I, I asked for a sponsor, still your
sponsor. Still my sponsor, yeah.

(44:29):
He comes and he's. So what?
What do you think, man? I said.
I think maybe I'll come around alittle bit.
All right, so I started going tomeetings and I told him what I
told him was Amen. But listen, miss me with that
fucking God shit, all right, I, I still believed that God

(44:49):
fucking abandoned me. All right, that's what I and I
believed it, you know, and he's like cool, he he and it was, I
mean, to know this guy, he his story is even crazier than mine,
right? But he never took offence and he
let me be me, right? He let me be who I was going to

(45:10):
be. And I started going back and,
and just hanging out with these guys and these ladies would come
from outside. And you know, the amazing thing
about this group that that I wasinvolved with, they never judged
me. They never treated me like, you
know, I, I have some kind of scummy convict.

(45:30):
They weren't afraid and, and they would come in and they
would bring these meetings in and we would have these meetings
and there wasn't a garden in theroom.
They had talked to the warden and got permission to not have a
guard in the room so that we could be real right, those
ladies. Must have been hard as nails,
man. Oh dude.
And both, and some of them were,I don't want to break their

(45:54):
anonymity, but some of them wereas pretty as any magazine as I
mean, yeah, drop dead gorgeous, that sure.
Makes the time go by faster too,but these?
But these old ladies, these old ladies didn't take no shit.
They didn't get. They didn't give two fucks.
You in here for murder? OK.
Do you want to be a fucking victim?
Sit down and shut up. You know what I mean?

(46:15):
They were just. They were awesome.
They were awesome. I had the opportunity after I
got out to go to Marina Pacifica.
You did. And they, they had me come up
and they had me speak for them. And those ladies were in the
room, you know, and I, I was a bawling freaking wreck, you know

(46:39):
what I mean? I was sitting up there and I, it
was just such a true and pure moment to have made it through
the fire and to let them see that that what they had done,
the steps that they, the sacrifices that they had made to
come in there and to bring that wasn't in vain, you know, and

(47:04):
that's also part of my mission statement today is to, to live
my life in such a way that I honor the sacrifices that that
people have made. And I, I also, I live my life in
such a way. I have see 9 grandchildren, four

(47:24):
daughters that are adults with children.
Not one of my grandchildren has ever seen me loaded.
Not one of my grandchildren has ever heard me raise my voice and
anger. My daughters when I first got
out wanted nothing to do with me.
I was not allowed to be alone with my grandchildren.

(47:46):
All right? And I came out, I mean, you
know, I had political ink. I had, you know, I mean, well,
you know, I had the stuff that it's survival.
I get it well. And, yeah, but I mean, it's also
stuff that I thought was part ofme.
And you know what, through a process that that someone taught

(48:08):
me, OK, I was able to shed a lotof that.
And now I can be, I can be vulnerable.
I can tell you, hey, man, I'm introuble, all right?
I had a similar experience. I'll tell you off off this, but
yeah, same thing is without somebody teaching me love and
tolerance, bro, I'd just be an angry motherfucker still who's

(48:30):
just sober, you know what I'm saying?
So yeah, and it's. You know, it took me a long time
to learn that anger is fear. Anger is fear projected out.
Instead of looking at what's going on right and dealing with
you that way, you can be of, of service.
You know, you can be of, of maximum benefit to the people

(48:50):
around you. And you know what, the way I
live my life today, 100%. And I, I'm, I don't have to even
think about it. Bullshit about it.
Nothing is about service to others, all right?
When I'm at work, I try to do beof maximum benefit to the people
around me. When I'm at home after hours,

(49:11):
you know, if if guys that work with me are hungry, OK, I got
you. Come on, let's go.
You know, I'd live my life as service to others because of the
gift that was given in service to me.
You know, let me ask. You this real quick, Sure.

(49:32):
When you got out. When I got out, it was right
back to the fucking races, man. And I got put on paper and part
of the stipulations of my paper was no drugs and alcohol because
I wasn't even 21 yet, you know what I mean?
But it would have been that anyway.
So I knew if I, I knew I couldn't piss dirty if I was

(49:59):
drinking. So my alcohol took off.
It was everything else before that, it really wasn't alcohol
for me. It was a spiritual deficiency.
Now that I in retrospect, it wasjust a spiritual deficiency and
I'd fill it with whatever I could other than trying to be
healthy, bro, you know, so, you know, I got out and my alcohol

(50:19):
took off because I know if the Iwould never go check into parole
and probation drunk so I could get away with it.
You know, did you have any of that going on when you first got
out or you felt like you had youhad a such a strong program that
it was well, so I was. Real fortunate I had six years
by the time I got out. Fuck.
Yeah. OK.
And then so and it's it's kind of funny.

(50:41):
So they in the feds, it's almostmandatory that you have to go to
a halfway house for six months. All right.
And so I get to this halfway house.
I agree with that. And and yeah, I met with the
counselor and I told her what was up and I said, look, OK, you
won't have any problems out of me.
Do you guys have a a. And she said, well, we have a

(51:02):
group that comes in, you know, once a week.
And I said, OK, and do you allowme to go to A and she said you
can go as often as you want. Look, yeah.
So I integrated right into a because that's how I ended up in
Bakersfield is that was the onlyhalfway house in California that
would take a bank robber. Yeah.
So I started hitting meetings there, all right.

(51:24):
And then my PO comes and my PO now, OK, my affiliation in the
joint was a Skinhead, all right?That was my I was an independent
skin. So my PO was this six foot four,
280 LB freaking hex lineman black dude, all right?

(51:44):
And when he comes in and he's he's got the folder and he's
automatically thinking I'm a problem, right?
And I'm like, hey, listen, bro, I'm going to be the easiest
freaking inmate that you've everhad.
And he's like I said, look, boss, all right, you want me to
test for you? I'll test now.
I'll test tomorrow. I'll test the day after.
I'll test any day you want. You can come in anytime you call

(52:08):
me. I'll come down here in 20
minutes. I'll test.
I've been sober six years. I'm not trying to cause no
problems. I just want to work and get back
to my life, you know? And he was like, you know what,
Robinson? I believe you, man.
He turned out to be one of my good friends.
I mean, he was When you're not, when you're not a detraction,

(52:28):
all right? And you're a positive influence
on the people around you. It's amazing what you can, what
you can achieve with the people that are, you know, in in any in
positions of authority over you or, you know, in any in law

(52:49):
enforcement. I've had I had it.
I got rear-ended by a freaking undercover detective in
Bakersfield, right. He can this I'm fresh out and
I'm like, Hey, I'm felony searchable.
You can go through my, you know,here, here's my, you know, and
it's like, I don't think I need to.
I'm like, well, hey, I, you can,you know, you're good, you're

(53:10):
good. So I think that if you, if you
embrace every part of yourself, right, and you accept that there
is good and bad. I still have a temper, you know,
but as soon as that comes, I canlet it go.

(53:32):
When I do something wrong, I'm immediately accountable.
I go up and hey, look, I'm really sorry if I messed
something up. I don't had it.
I don't lie about it. And I messed this up, you know,
so did you. Do all your steps inside.
I did. Gotcha.
So what man? What was it like doing a fourth

(53:53):
step and a fifth step with another dude in prison?
You know what? I think so.
And did you have a sponsor of somebody that was also inside my
sponsor? Was is he was a fellow inmate,
that guy that on the softball field, that was my sponsor.
And we went through the steps and you know what, before we

(54:14):
went through the steps, before he before we ever got to a
fourth step or a fifth step, we knew enough about each other's
story. And I was comfortable telling
him anything you know, and. There's no better sponsor than
one that's not going to rat on you so well.
It's. Not even I, I, you know what,

(54:34):
for me, the the someone to rat. Yeah, no, I'm just, I was way
past that at that point. But having someone that I
trusted would not take my dirt, you know, and and use it or use
it against me was huge. Yeah, but I also.

(54:55):
OK, so this group, but you also had to be.
Honest, right? And you And that's, and that's,
that's the disconnect is when I work the steps, I can tell if a
guy is being honest with me or not.
And that's, that's it doesn't matter how good of a fucking
sponsor you are really. It just matters how capable and
willing you are of being honest with another human being.
Well, you know what though? So I found that you know what?

(55:20):
Even if a person is, is not like100% forthright, if you show
them for the people that I I've worked with, all right, if you
show them that you accept what they gave you all right, And
there's no negative consequence to that, that because I've done

(55:42):
the steps multiple times. I I've, I've done a four step
probably 7-8 Times Now just because whenever I hit something
that that it's like, wait a minute, there's something here.
There's a fucking problem here, All right?
There was I, I went through thisthing where whenever I would
like me and the wife would get into an argument, all right, I

(56:04):
shut down. I go into my living room.
I wouldn't shut my front door. I'd shut this metal screen door
that I had, all right. And I'm fucking sitting there
looking out bars at the fucking world going by.
And I had to look at that. I had to.
OK, what's going on here? What the fuck?
OK, I'm more comfortable in the shoe than I am fucking dealing

(56:28):
with this. And so I had to take that
through the process right now. The steps don't scare me, all
right? And I try to impart to the
people that that I work with that look, OK, if you have
something that's too scary for you to talk about right now,
cool. All right, I get it.

(56:51):
But hey, man, the sooner we get that out, OK, the better that
wound can start to heal, all right?
I'm not here to fucking make youdo anything, all right?
And when you set the table in a manner that that promotes
inclusion and acceptance, that'sbasically what the program is.

(57:15):
You know, where are we at with time, whenever.
You're all good. OK, I'm still.
Good. OK, Yeah.
Hey. Well, I, I sweat this.
This is the this. Is a This is a big episode for
us. This is our 20th episode, so
we're not we didn't want to tellyou to blow your head up
anymore, but this is right. Well, this is a.

(57:35):
Special episode. You would have terrified.
Me because this is all this is all so, so new to this is our
20th. Episode getting 20 episodes out,
it's like kind of like a it's kind of like a a litmus test for
guys who start shows, you know what I mean?
So, you know, we got 20 out and you're killing it so yeah,
you're good. Do your thing, you know?

(57:56):
Yeah. So moving forward, OK, now what
the what the program that I workall right, allows me to do is it
allows me when when there are people that are in sticky

(58:16):
situations, OK, because when I first got it, I was like, dudes
on the yard. Hey man, you know you're fucking
up. You need to come to meetings,
right? And fucking they'd come in and
they sit there and nothing ever took now, all right, I've
learned enough to let a motherfucker bump his head, you
know, let them bump their head and just just say hey, you know

(58:41):
if. Plant the seed if well.
If you ever decide that this isn't what you want, there's
another way. And I don't miss getting loaded.
I I don't I don't miss drinking.I don't miss the whoop, Dee
whoop. And I damn sure don't miss that
that crime feeling, you know, because that used to be a high

(59:02):
all in itself. All right, I'm big on.
Attraction rather than promotion.
That's one of the most importantones to me, especially because
I'm the I'm the same way, you know, I'm, I'm in a motorcycle
club and all the time some of the toughest guys, the baddest
dudes I know, you know, will come to me and go, dude, I kind

(59:24):
of want what you got. You know what I mean?
What are you doing? You know what I mean?
And that's how I'm like, OK, well, there's a way.
But I also love what you said. You got to fuck it.
That's how I learned, you know what I mean?
And it was I definitely had to, I definitely had to keep digging
and keep seeing how, how, how, how deep I could make my hole,
bro, you know what I mean? And, and part of the reason

(59:46):
anybody that's listening, I havepeople like this gentleman on is
simply for you to understand that you don't got to rob 6
banks and go to prison to make adecision to stop now.
Unmanageable is what it is to you, you know.
I recommend. That you don't do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not near as fun after it's

(01:00:07):
all over, right? You know, that sense of I, I
swear I for the longest time I thought that I was cursed, you
know, being adopted. I still, I, I have no idea who,
what my father's name is. I don't know who it is to this
day being adopted and always feeling different than or less

(01:00:32):
than or, you know, all all those, those things that come
with that, you know, like, you know, going fishing with pops,
pops taking you and watching your ball game, stuff like that.
I never had any of that. And so now one of the greatest
blessings of this program is that I feel comfortable wherever

(01:00:57):
I go. I mean, don't get me wrong, like
this here is an uncomfortable this this was uncomfortable for
me, but I knew I'd be OK. You know, I would, I would be OK
because the program has taught me that to be uncomfortable is
not a bad thing. No, it's you're.
Growing you're getting. Better, yeah, but.
To be comfortable in your own skin, to me is also the biggest

(01:01:17):
promise that came true in my life.
Absolutely. Absolutely all the other.
Things came true, but the one that did the most profound
impact on my soul was being ableto wake up in the morning with
the with a soft shoulder and anda piece in my heart.
You know what I mean? And again, like you said, that's
also a muscle. Yeah.

(01:01:38):
And you have to maintain the peace just as well as you have
to maintain well. And you?
Know what I use that as a tool in my toolbox too, because if I
ever start to feel like uncomfortable or or restless I,
I tell my buddy all the time that you know hey man, look for
us hungry, angry, lonely, tired man.
Those are the four horsemen. You know, those are the four
horsemen. And if, if you start to feel

(01:02:00):
that, then you, you need to lookat that's not a good place to
be. And so I use that as a tool in
my toolbox if I ever start to get agitated or or upset.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. What the fuck's going on?
OK. And and it's, once you do it
enough times, you can look at itand.
Son of a bitch. Yeah, bro, once a year I get, I

(01:02:21):
get really melancholy, all right?
And it's usually for about four or five days.
And it always sneaks up on me. All right?
It always sneaks up on me. And it's my, the anniversary of
my sister's death. All right.
My sister, you know, it's weird.So my family's a very alcoholic
family. My sister died from alcoholism.

(01:02:42):
My father, you know who I call my father, alcoholic death.
My aunt just had an alcoholic death.
My grandfather, my grandmother, my grandfather on my mother's
side in, in Snelling, the town where my family's, you know,
centralized out of, there's a whole row of tombstones.

(01:03:03):
One of them wasn't an alcoholic death that you know, I mean, so
you had. You had to break it, man, you
know? Yeah, and.
You know, I mean, well, I'm going to die an alcoholic, just
not a practicing, you know, right.
So, yeah. So that's.
I'm also adopted by my father and gave me his last name, the
whole deal, and he's the reason I knew about a A because he was

(01:03:26):
30 years sober. And what's funny is you
mentioned this is my biological father, who I never met was my
#1 resentment on my 4th step. And it was the only one when I
got to that 4th column, I didn'treally have a part in other than
using it as a, as a way to be a victim, I guess you know what

(01:03:49):
I'm saying? And like, fuck, dude, you know,
I'm sad or whatever, whatever the.
And if you'd have been. There, I would have been
different. I'd have been different.
I wouldn't have been a piece of shit, I would have been smoking
meth at 13 and whatever dude, you know what I mean.
But it's not, you know, the same, same deal is that the, the
guy that adopted me helps me runthis meeting here, you know what
I mean? And he gave me his last name

(01:04:10):
and, and he met my mom through a, a how crazy is that?
We did a speaker meeting together on Father's Day, you
know what I'm saying? I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's
crazy that you talk about that because, you know, we share that
resentment, you know what I mean?
And, and at the end of the day, the only part I had in that was

(01:04:35):
fucking trying to make it, make myself suffer because of it, you
know, and, and like I said, I'm,I wasn't responsible for my dad
leaving, but I'm responsible formy choices and what I do because
of that, you know, and I still had a life that was great.
I still had a normal fucking life.
I had great parents, fucking dideverything, you know what I

(01:04:56):
mean? And did everything.
A normal kid and I still turned out to be a dirtbag and those.
So it's nature nurture, it's genetic.
It's everything. Doesn't matter.
You don't have to have come fromalcoholic family, even though I
did. But if you do and you don't, it
doesn't matter. We all qualify for this disease.
You know what I mean? So, you know, Yeah.

(01:05:18):
And we just, we all learned a place at the table.
That's, you know, and how you got to the table doesn't matter.
We all learned our place. So yeah, you know, I don't even
think I put my biological in my 4th step.
I never, I didn't have any resentment against him.
It was just. Absent, right?
Yeah, it was. It was just, you know, something

(01:05:39):
that that I didn't have no wheremy where where the stuff came
into my 4th step was more me stuff.
I always felt different and I act.
I reacted because I didn't feel like I could be loved.
I didn't think that, you know, if there was a God, why would he
put me through that? You know I.

(01:06:00):
Get it for this reason right now, yeah.
And. That's, you know what I've come
to learn that later on is that for this.
Very reason, you know. You don't, you don't put
aluminum in fire, it ruins it. You put steel in fire to temper
it, you know, and, and for people.
To hear. Well, and you know what?

(01:06:20):
I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be on a podcast
talking about, you know, my past.
One of my one of my buddies, oneof my, my buddies at the last
place where we were working withsaid, Jamie, you should write a
book. And I'm like, man, no one wants
to hear my story. Who would care about my stinking
story? He's like, dude, I'd read it

(01:06:40):
from cover to cover and I was like, man, it.
And it never really occurred to me that maybe there was, you
know, I, I've spoken all over the place, you know, to
different people. I I have had the opportunity and
the privilege to take stuff intoprisons, which was a trip, which

(01:07:00):
was a real trip. I've had the opportunity to work
with people at halfway houses and sponsor people coming out
and you know it. It's an incredible and profound
blessing to be able to give backwhat was given to me and given

(01:07:26):
so freely and with such generosity, you know?
I mean, and how easy, how easy once you get fuck it, you know
what I mean? It looks like, and I, I talk
about that with guys too, as, asyou, you put it so simple.
And we love to complicate this shit.
It's so fucking easy, man. And it, it really is.

(01:07:48):
It's like looking at the top of a fucking mountain that you got
to climb up. And it's really not that bad
when you get up, you know what Imean?
Yeah, but it's like, fuck, I just don't want to do it, you
know what I mean? It's like, it's like praying
when you don't want to know the answer.
You know what I mean? It's like it's like looking.
At the top of a mountain and then you're sitting there.
Oh my God, that's so far, and all of a sudden the freaking
trolley car pulls up next to you.

(01:08:09):
Just step on it and ride it to the top.
Really is. That it's, yeah.
I've been very fortunate and in so many different ways.
My crimey, my nephew that was onthe yard with me that I talked
about. OK, so we both were doing the
program. OK, We we both came out, He
married a girl, had a little baby, was doing the thing right.

(01:08:35):
And he spun off. He's doing 35 years now in
where's he at now in Corcoran, 35 years in Corcoran.
He's eligible for parole when he's 64.
You know, and dude, that could be me.
It could so easily be me. And I'm only one drink, one shot

(01:08:57):
away from it. You know, I have plumbed the
depths of my depravity, all right?
I've, I've plumbed the depths ofthem.
I know the darkness that is inside me.
You know what I mean? And so having that and I use
that as a tool in my toolbox too, you know, because I keep
saying tools in toolbox, it's it's the things that I utilize

(01:09:22):
to help me on the path that I'm on.
Yeah. And the program.
That we're talking about is not a program to stop drinking.
It's a program for living, you know what I mean?
And that just comes with that, you know, and anybody.
And I, I say this all the time. Look, getting sober is easy.
Getting sober is the easiest thing in the world.
Staying sober is easier than shit.

(01:09:43):
You only have to do one thing, and that's don't drink, don't
use. That's it.
All right. That doesn't mean your life's
going to improve. Yeah, and and.
That's the trick, right? That's the rub, all right?
If you don't do the things to make it happy, being sober, to
make it in to work, you're not constantly missing it.

(01:10:03):
OK, then what's the fucking point?
I got a funny. Story about that and I've told
this, but I don't think I've told it on the show.
So I told you I work on the railroad.
These are fucking sledgehammer swinging tough motherfuckers.
And you know, I was at this railroad in, I think I was in

(01:10:24):
Wyoming and they, they don't fucking slouch in Wyoming, you
know. And so arguing with this guy
about how something should be done, you know, I just patched
in with my club, had about 6 years of sobriety, something
like that, you know what I mean?And just my life's going great.
I'm got a, got a good job, money's coming in, you know what

(01:10:45):
I mean? I'm doing OK.
So I think I fucking know everything.
I think it was 28 at the time, you know what I mean?
It's only a few years back and regularly going to meetings, you
know what I mean? And, and I get into an argument
with this guy about how something should be done on the
railroad, you know what I mean? This guy's twice my age, big
mother fucker. And they, they have to pull us

(01:11:09):
apart, you know what I mean? And we separate.
I go do my job and I come back in, in Wyoming, you know, it's
good old boy country. So they'll just let you fight,
you know what I mean? And so we, that's what I think
we're going to do. And they bring us back to each
other and he grabs me by the hand.
He said you were fucking right. I'm wrong.
I'm sorry. I just want to make an amends to
you. I look at him and I'm like, oh

(01:11:31):
shit, are you in recovery? And he said, what the fuck are
you talking? And so it it's a constant, that
story is a constant reminder at exactly what you were just
saying is I know I'm a fucking alcoholic because I need a 12
step program to tell me when it's an acceptable time to
apologize or not. Normal people don't need shit

(01:11:54):
like that. So that's how that's how I know
I'm a fucking sick, sick fuckingdude.
You know what I'm saying? So and, and you hit it right on
the head. Is this a program for living?
It's a program for fixing the not fishing, it's fixing the
deficiency, but treat but treating the symptoms in a way

(01:12:15):
that normal people don't need. So but yeah, that's a story I
never told, but it's a constant reminder I think about that.
And I'm just like other people just to this on their own, you
know what I mean? I need that's an.
Amazing story and you should tell that story more often.
I think you. Need to hear it.
Yeah. And it's, I think about that and
I remember getting through the maintenance steps, the inventory

(01:12:39):
and the amends. And I'm still working on the
amends, 11 years sober. And I remember thinking we're in
October. So we always talk about 10 in
October and I remember getting through those steps and going,
fuck man, I'm so glad I never got to do any of that shit ever
again. You know what I mean?

(01:12:59):
I was like, fucking got it all out.
I got all the bullshit from behind me away.
And then, you know, my sponsor was like, well, guess what?
You got to do 10 now, which is every day.
You got to do 4 and and 9:00 every day, you know?
Fuck and. You know, I always say the
maintenance steps are for the clearing the wreckage and 10 is

(01:13:22):
for keeping it clear. And you do that when you wait,
when you go to sleep or when youwake up, whatever you do, I do
it when I go to sleep, you know,And you know, what a beautiful
thing, such a simple thing. But if you're just sober and
you're not treating the disease,that's a that's a worse
existence in my opinion, becauseit's like, it's like riding a

(01:13:50):
motor without power steering. You know what I mean?
It's like, it's like with no oilin the tank and fucking it's
like going. Downhill with no brakes?
Fuck yeah it is. Yeah, it's the worst.
So, you know, if you're like us,and that sounds like it makes
sense to you and you're struggling and you might be
sober, there is a way. And it's a program for living,
and it's very, very simple. And you just got to change a few

(01:14:12):
things about how you're operating.
You know what I mean? So you know, I would also.
To the people that that are listening and and that have an
ear ear to hear, find someone that doesn't have things that
you want but is the person you want to be.

(01:14:33):
There you go. Yeah, that's that's a common
misconception I hear often and Ihear guys asking people to be
their sponsor and it's like that's what it is.
It's not, it's who you want to be.
I like that a lot. And it's, it's and somebody
that's going to fucking hold your account, hold you
accountable. You know what I mean?
You don't got it. And I tell my sponsors, I'm not

(01:14:55):
your fucking friend. I'm not your friend until we're
done. You know what I mean?
We're not friends right now. We're we're just beating.
And that's not anything against the people I work with.
It's because I can't I don't do a good of a job holding my
friends accountable as I do acquaintances.
You know what I'm saying? Like I can call an acquaintance
on a shit. Once you're my friend, it's like

(01:15:16):
I'll start Co signing your bullshit and I got to catch
myself. It's my own deficient.
So I that's what I say. I was like, find a guy that's
going to fucking hold you accountable.
He's going to fucking tell you what it is.
If he thinks you're lying, he's going to tell you you're lying.
Thinks you're spending too much time at the strip club.
He's going to tell you. You know what I'm saying?
You know, you know that's. That's actually really, really

(01:15:40):
true. I I never really, because for
me, like the way when I work with people, I don't, I don't
really try and call them on their bullshit so much as bring
them to a place where they call themself, you know, just take a
look at, you know, take a look at this.
What do you think? So, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's you got to be their. Conscious for a little bit until

(01:16:01):
they have an and improve their own that that does.
That makes a lot of sense to me.Yeah, yeah, the the guys that
that I was with, they had no problem with that.
Their style was way different than than mine.
I love that. I'm a I'm a little bit more
tolerant I think then, but I'll get there.
Not well. I don't know.

(01:16:21):
See, that's because a lot of times I put up with a lot of
bullshit crying too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'd rather hurt your feelings than see you die.
I guess you know what I mean. And I don't always have to do
that. But I will, you know, And not
because I'd just rather, I'd rather you not die.
I'd rather you not relapse and then fucking see what fentanyl
is about because I never got to try fentanyl.
I heard it's great, but you knowwhat I mean?

(01:16:43):
I just lost. A a good, I'm a, I'm a local
guy. I'm AUA guy.
And I just lost a really good friend of mine.
Yeah, we just had a. Funeral here.
Yeah, for a. Girl and he wasn't doing you
know, he was working out of state and wasn't really doing
too much crazy, but he got a badbatch and and you know, I mean
man, we can punch our ticket at any time.

(01:17:05):
You know it just that's the nature of the beast.
I wanted to share one thing withyou and I I I have to share this
with with whatever whenever I have the opportunity, OK, the
program that I work when I was on the yard at TII got called up

(01:17:29):
to the L TS office and they theysent me down and they said Robin
said, I got to tell you I we gota call from your your mother,
your sister died, my kid sister.And you know, we we were close

(01:17:52):
and at the time that she passed,we were estranged and the last
words that I had to her were notgood words.
All right, she, I, I used to getthese checks, you know, a couple
times a year and I had gotten a check and it was a pretty good

(01:18:12):
sized check. It was like 12 grand or
something like that. And I told her to keep the
money, give it to my kids, but to send me 1100 bucks.
And she's OK. And week goes by and I don't get
the money and I call her and she's all I've been busy.

(01:18:33):
I'll get it out to you. OK, cool.
Another week goes by and she's ducking my calls, right?
And I call my mom and I tell mom, hey, tell Neda, OK, give me
that money. I, I need that money.
I, I owe some people on the yard.
I've been gambling and stuff like that.
And I owe some people on the yard.
Not a big deal, but I still I like to, you know, to keep

(01:18:53):
things right. So another week goes by,
nothing. And I call her in.
The last thing that I did when II left a voicemail on her phone,
I said, look, Netta, you know meall right?
You know this isn't Netta. I will come to your house, I
will kill your fucking dog and I'll paint your door and it's

(01:19:13):
blood, right? And then she died like 2 weeks
later. And I was sober at the time, you
know, I was sober, I hadn't worked the steps yet, but I was
sober and that really fucked me up.
And so I, I, that's another toolin my toolbox, right?

(01:19:36):
I took that to my sponsor and there's some more to this story
that I'll, I'll close with, but I took that to my sponsor and I
told him, you know, dude. And you know, he's like, yeah,
OK, there's, what's the lesson there?
You know, And the lesson was that I never, ever will say
anything in anger, you know, I just don't know.

(01:19:59):
I've been married for almost 10 years.
I've never raised my voice to mywife.
I've never raised my voice and anger to my wife.
I've never called my wife outside of her name except baby
girl or honey. You know, I just don't.
And I, I, that's a, the lessons that we learned.

(01:20:20):
The ones that are the most fucking valuable have the most
pain attached to them, you know?And so now I don't look at
things with shame, OK. I look at the lesson behind the
pain. You do not regret.
The past nor wish to shut the door.
Yeah, well. I mean, now I've learned and,

(01:20:42):
and yeah, that's and you know what?
I never acquitted it to that. That's actually, that was well
put because I for me, it's OK. I take the pain.
What is the lesson, OK, in the pain, what is the lesson?
Don't run away from it. Look at what the fucking lesson
is, all right? And now you don't have to go

(01:21:04):
through that pain again. You know, that pain becomes a, a
tool in your toolbox. And so this is what I, I want to
close with. And this is the.
So when they pulled me up into the LT's office, now you got to
understand I've got a pretty violent history as far as the
books in there go. OK.

(01:21:24):
I did a lot of time in the shoe for, you know, punching dudes in
the suit, cooler stuff like that.
So they knew I had a violent history.
And the Lt. told me that my sister died and he looked at me
and I saw Robinson. Do I have to lock you up?
And I said no. And he goes, you sure?
He said that, you know, put you on a Wellness hold.
I said, dude, I'm, I'm OK, just let me go back to the unit.

(01:21:47):
So I go back to the unit and I'min the unit and I'm about to
lose my shit. You know, I mean, I'm, I'm, it's
hitting me. And so I go to the CEO that's
that's running the unit. And I said, hey, man, you need
to let me out. And, you know, in prison, they
don't just open doors and let fucking convicts out.
And he's like, yeah, right, Robinson, you know, that says

(01:22:08):
no, hey, look, OK, you need to open the fucking door and let me
out. And he saw me, you know what I
mean? And he was one of the ones that
knew what I was trying to do. OK, what I the the steps that I
was trying to to make to to turnaround.
So he opened the door man, and he fucking made a call down to
South yard. The way the the yards are at TI

(01:22:29):
as you got the north yard in theSouth yard in the South yards
were like the baseball diamonds are in the track and that shit.
So he called down to South yard said, Hey, I got 1 coming.
Just let him through and I'm walking the track and I'm losing
my shit. All right, and my boys, the guys
that are like me, all right, that are doing what I'm doing,

(01:22:50):
they see me, all right, they seeme through the window.
And so when they call a movement, my guys come out and
they're fucking huddled around me, OK, in prison crying and
shit like that is fucking that'sweak.
And and you don't, that's not, you know.
And so these guys huddled aroundme and as I swear, it was like I

(01:23:11):
was in a cocoon. They wouldn't let anyone near me
and they just let me walk for anhour, maybe two hours and lose
my shit. And that to me is always, and
that is always, that's another tool of my that's what the
program that I work is. All right.
If you're, if you can't walk on your own, if you can't make it
by yourself, trust in the herd, OK?

(01:23:34):
Because there are people around you that will hold you up and
shelter you until you can walk on your own.
And I want to be one of those people.
Not only that, OK, I also want to acknowledge the grace that
has been given to us by the people that have gone before
that Allow that to happen. All right?

(01:23:57):
I'm in one of the the most awfulfucking places experience wise
on the planet. And there are fucking enough men
there that don't want nothing from me other than to see me
succeed. That's always what the program
that I work means. There are always, if you will

(01:24:20):
just allow the people around youto fucking help you, you will
always succeed because they won't let you fucking fail, you
know? And I want to be one of those
people. I want to have that grace that
if you need me and if you're outthere and you need me, OK, if

(01:24:44):
you reach out, I will answer so.Don't drink without me.
Don't drink without me. Yeah, don't.
Yeah, just before you do whatever you got in your head to
do, give a cracker a call, you know, there you go.
Yeah. And I don't I say something
similar. I, I, you know, and same thing

(01:25:06):
is it if, if you're struggling with drugs and alcohol and you
reach out wherever you're watching this YouTube, Spotify,
Apple, anything, you can follow us on Instagram, You can send us
a message. We got the 1800 numbers in all
the comment sections of every episode we've ever done.
But if you are struggling with drugs and alcohol and if it's a
good enough reason, I'll come get drunk with you, I promise,

(01:25:29):
you know, but it's got to be a really good reason.
And the caveat is obviously manypeople have called me.
I ain't never gotten drunk, you know, but but a lot of people
have come to where we probably. Call before you get drunk.
But. For me, OK, look, I don't care
It, it doesn't even have to be drugs and alcohol.
You could be 20 years sober and you're going through a divorce,

(01:25:49):
you're going through a death, you're going, you know what I
mean? Maybe you know something
horrible, cancer, whatever. If you need someone to walk with
you and fucking hold your hand, I don't want you to feel alone.
We're never alone, but you have to reach out and you have to
trust that that handle be there to pick you up.

(01:26:11):
Yeah. Yeah, we're not going.
To come find you. We're not going to sit at the
bar waiting. I'm not.
Omnipotent. I can't do that.
I've tried it it it doesn't work.
Got to do the. First part and it's the hardest
part, but it's the only that's the only one you got to do by
yourself. And I will leave my contact
number with you guys and and if you reach out, we'll.
We'll get you in contact, yeah. And look, if you just want to

(01:26:34):
chop it up, but hey, you know, I'm I'm a chatty motherfucker.
You can always call me. I'm I'm cool outside of that
guys, I think that's I think I pretty much exhausted my
resources. Thank you.
So. Much for being here is the 20th
episode, the 4th St. Live podcast.
We've got a lot more cool thingscome in all things recovery,

(01:26:56):
motorcycles, Reno, just whateverthe fuck we want to talk about
really, you know. But Madam, my friend, thank you
for being here. This is an.
Awesome thing you're doing here.I'm, I'm blessed and and very
appreciative to have had the opportunity to come and share
with you. It's awesome.
I'll see you Wednesday. Yes Sir, be safe bro.
Yes, Sir.