Jordan Brandt #16 | Fourth Street Live - 4th Street Live Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:57):
This is Jacob, the host of the 4th St.
Live podcast. And my new book, The Rail
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Thanks so much. Yeah, we've got sober cats on

(01:20):
and we've got just whoever I want to talk to, so that's just
part of whatever fucking. But what you got going on up in
Truckee is important, you know what I mean?
And, you know, it's kind of whatwe were talking about yesterday
was there's a really big disconnect between that first

(01:46):
feeling of maybe I've got a problem to accepting that you
have to do something about it. That's a fucking mile apart, you
know what I mean? That's like a mountain apart.
It's like once you get there, it's all downhill.
It's great, you know what I mean?

(02:10):
Had to be blue, not red. So in martial arts.
Like in martial arts for example, like everybody you
know, they say the hardest part is stepping in the door.
And it's like the same in recovery, right?
Is the hardest part is step one showing up and deciding that you
have a problem and deciding thatyou need to seek a new path in

(02:31):
life. Hence why I think they're so
coincided with each other and why I think they work well
together. Of course, I'm biased because I
like them both so much. Yeah.
Well, and I'm biased in that waytoo, because I think motorcycles
are the answer, you know what I mean?
I mean, but it's all the same could be the answer, I'm not
denying that. No, no, no, no if.
I was allowed to drive with total freedom.

(02:53):
Yeah, I would totally have a motorcycle again, but.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.
I get it. No, I, I think that it's, I
think the answer is keeping yourmind busy.
You know what I mean? I think it's keeping, as you
say, often as you're staying in motion.
I think that is the I, I think inherently that is the answer.
I think there's a need for balance of that.

(03:15):
There's a sense of like time when you need to be busy and I
think you also need to learn to be bored.
And I think that's where the because you can't always be on.
We learn in addiction. You can't always be on.
You know, you got to re up the high and in the same way that's
how your mind works 24/7 is there are down times and there
are up times. And during the up times, it's OK

(03:37):
to be locked in and LinkedIn andlike doing whatever it is you're
doing. But then being OK with the
downtime and being able to sit and settle and be not feel as
though you always have to be in this perpetual motion thought
process productivity, which honestly, you know, that idea

(03:57):
behind the perpetual productivity and needing to
always being to do something is preached at people a lot,
especially when they have the 24/7 news cycle on their phone,
you know, and every single person who decided to like come
out as like a influencer and allthese making it look as though
they're always proactive and active.

(04:18):
And it's like everybody needs downtime, everybody needs rest,
and everybody needs to be able to do enjoy that downtime and
rest and. Social media is not real, yeah.
Oh yeah. I mean, I've been in digital
marketing 15 years. I can tell you from personal
experience, it's all created to look a certain way, right?
Well, we talked about that. You're not going to go on there

(04:39):
and talk about the shitty day you had, but when you take a
trip to Ibiza and everybody's going to know about it, right?
You know what I mean? And.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's funny.
That is real. But like, there's just that push
for productivity and, yeah, the keeping the mind busy.
I think in the beginning it's pretty important to keep the
mind busy and stay proactive. But then lean into being willing

(05:01):
to pause and take time to sit with the self is really
important. Yeah, that was something that
changed in this last time for mewhere I had to learn to sit
still. I mean, my DOCS are cocaine and
alcohol. Got it.
I love moving around some. So I had to learn to not wiggle.

(05:22):
Yeah, yeah, everybody's different.
Some people have to learn how todo something.
You know, I, I struggled being comfortable in my own skin for
sure. And it was definitely a matter
of when it wasn't drugs, alcohol, then I would be, then
I'd be a chameleon. I'd be whoever I needed to be to
be your friend or hang out with you or do what you're doing, you

(05:42):
know, so that it was always motion and it was always active
and it was always busy and it was always noise up here, you
know what I mean? And I think you hit it on the
head. I think the thing that started
healing for me as well was beingcomfortable in my own skin for
once, being able to be real comfortable with quiet in here

(06:03):
and in here and physically quiet, you know what I mean?
Just yeah, it's OK to be alone, you know what I mean?
It's OK. It's actually healthy.
It's actually great to sit thereand not not sometimes be in your
car with the radio and just listening to yourself.
That's a good feeling too. It's also great to listen to
music. But.
Yeah, people get in my car sometimes and there's nothing

(06:24):
going on. Yeah, they're like looking
around and I'm like, yeah, sorry.
Sometimes I just listen to the wind.
I do know bro. So where did you come up with
this idea for the crow's nest? OK, how long ago was this?
I was in rehab. You're in rehab and you thought
I can do this better? No, that that was not it at all,
not even a little bit. I was in rehab and I was very

(06:49):
facing. I've faced prison for my
addiction on three separate occasions.
So I was facing yet another possible prison sentence.
I have managed to skirt all three.
Now. I think this is my last chance,
so This is why this has to mean a lot.
Anyway, back to the point is, isI was sitting in rehab and I was

(07:11):
just really like focusing on howI'm going to make this long term
sustainable. Everything else, you know, I, I
decided that I was going to takea different route from routes
I'd taken in the past and routesI'd taken in the past have been
a lot more traditional. They had been pretty carbon copy

(07:31):
of what is pretty much out thereand available to a lot of
people. And I'm not going to kibosh any
of that. I think it works for a lot of
people and it's great. And I still participate in a lot
of traditional things. But anyway, I wanted to also
figure out my own personal form of service.
And when I was looking up because my wife and I were on

(07:53):
the outs as well during this time.
And so I was looking up sober living near me and there was
nothing like and I was just like, OK, well, what am I going
to do is spend more time away from further from home working
on myself. Like how much do I really need a
self stroke versus when I need to get back to reality and face
reality, if that makes sense. So something having been in

(08:14):
Truckee would have been a an amazing in between, but that
wasn't the case. So I was sitting there and they
call it tech time in impatient and I was doing tech time and I
was researching and then I kind of just looked into it.
What it takes to open a sober living.
Not a whole lot, really. Yeah, got it.
As long as you're able to get, you know, a house and open the

(08:40):
doors and commit to it becoming a sober living, that's about it.
Especially in California, where there's a lot of Gray area in
the sober living world and not alot of licensure or oversight.
Got it. However, we are licensed.
The outpatient is licensed by DHCS.
We are very strict, stringent and like we abide by like the

(09:00):
hard rules very much so. And so in all reality, I was
just like, well, maybe I'll openthe sober house and that'll be
my way of giving back is, you know, getting out of here,
working with other men, creatingcommunity where my community is
in in this style. And so that's where it started

(09:21):
was that idea and creating something that would be this
place where people can come and or come home to or not really
have to leave, far from the place where they can focus on
the recovery, not be far from home, work a job and work their
program. You know what I mean?
It snowballed from there. I got out, I hit the ground

(09:42):
running, got it registered as a 5O1C3 pretty quickly.
And then from there it was running, some refuge recovery
meetings, running, some fitness for recovery meetings and some
the occasional outdoor hikes, snowshoe, cold plunge in the
winter in Lake Tahoe, kind of things.
You know, just trying to offer more than just the traditional

(10:02):
sit down meetings and just be willing to cultivate more
community. And then it, you know, one of my
friends, he's actually my business development manager now
in the, in the outpatient. He gave me the terrible idea of
why don't you get a licensed outpatient.
And so I, I look into it and it was like a 3540 page
application. I was like, that's nothing.

(10:24):
When you're done with that application, it turns into about
500 to 1000 pages. Jeez, yeah.
I didn't really know what I was getting myself into.
I was like, sit down in an afternoon, knock this out, get
licensed, right? That that's not possible.
Don't Yeah, don't think that's the case.
But, you know, it snowballed into it.
And a lot of people from within my own community came out of the

(10:46):
woodworks to help. And that's how this became
possible. I I have to reiterate time and
time again, I didn't do this alone.
And like my #1 supporter who wasmy wife, she's actually my
director of admin business partner in this whole thing.
She's been administrative director for medical facilities
back in Oregon where we were originally from, as well as
other kind of different bigger companies.

(11:07):
So she took that part on, which is perfect because I'm kind of
the creative marketing guy who'sbeen doing that for a long time.
And then she's the back end stuff that makes my head spin
and like want to go jump in front of traffic if I have to do
another form or answer another administrative call.
So it worked out almost serendipitously, obviously too
well for it to not come together.

(11:28):
And it was kind of wild to me. Like I've worked on, I've worked
on other companies and I've beenpart of plenty of different
stuff from Fortune 500 massive companies all the way down to my
own personal startups. And this one just seemed, it was
kind of wild how like, as I worked, whether or not it was
hard work, it worked out in a way that I was not used to it

(11:49):
working out so well, which was wild to me.
And so it just kept happening. But yeah, it all started back on
like day 15 of inpatients in a shower.
Just thinking to myself, like, what am I going to do to make it
work this time? And I'm a workhorse man or a
working dog, as I always say. And I got to work back to
needing to be able to be comfortable in your own skin

(12:11):
while I should swallow my own medicine there because when I
was coming out, it was like, I got to work.
And so I, that's what I did was I, I dedicated part of my time
and existence outside of my career path in creating this.
And it worked. It's working, it's working.
But as well as that, it was justkind of this decision to like

(12:34):
offer something a little new, unique and different, not
better, just. Different and what a what a
beautiful place. It's not bad in that miserable
place in your life where I say it often and I say it with love.
I hope your life fucking sucks day one no matter where you're

(12:55):
at. But that's the worst.
That feeling is on day one. God damn.
Usually it's usually the last time you have to feel it.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
And. But day one was in a jail cell
for me. Fuck yeah again.
Hell yeah, dude, mine was in a hospital bed, you know, and.
Starting a hospital bed, They transferred me to the oh,

(13:17):
that's. Worse.
That sucks. Yeah, yeah, No, I get it.
Day one's miserable. And man, if I could be up in
trucky in the trees, man, day one, that sure would make that
day a little bit better, you know what I mean?
So you got a beautiful thing. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, it doesn't
suck to be in, like, such an amazing place, right?
Awesome at all. And I mean, I moved.

(13:39):
I the last time I lived in California, I pretty much drove
out of the state with my middle finger in the air.
And I've never moved back to this fucking state.
Screw all this, you know, all that stuff.
I was in Oregon, moving back to Oregon, and I was just like, I'm
an Oregon boy. I got to admit it and then I
always joke with my. Friends, you're from Portland.
Well, my wife is from Portland. Properly, like a true
Portlandian, Yeah, Although she grew up in St.

(14:01):
John's, which technically is in Portland.
South, right. No, it's North, North Portland.
OK, OK, OK. But like, I like to universe
shade. It's like technically not
Portland, even though it totallyis.
Yes, it's an inside. Joke we have I grew up outside
of Eugene on a in a town called Crow, OK, on a place called
Crow's Nest Ranch. It's a horse ranch that has so
like the whole thing is kind of dedicated to my mom who named

(14:23):
the horse ranch. My mom even got my dad into
being a cowboy. He was a ski bomb surf guy, fell
in love with this rodeo queen lady and ended up having kids
and whatnot. And one of them happened to be a
an addict of larger proportions than the rest of them.
It happens bro. She passed away, which is how my

(14:44):
like, huge push back into Idiocracy happened.
I was kind of teetering on that back and forth edge of like a
drink on the weekends. I have a couple at night.
Responsibly. I mean, it was getting pretty
bad. And then once that happened, I
was mourning, you know, she diedin March.
I ended up in rehab in July. So I've warned a really long

(15:06):
time, we all do, right? We get the excuse, we run with
it. And so it's a dedication to her
and her influence on me in a lotof ways.
My mom and my dad are totally opposite, like a lot of people
like the dad's the hard hand andmom's the soft glove.
And they were opposite in that way.
And so, yeah, I know like for her, she would be looking at me,

(15:28):
not like, oh, my poor baby, she should be looking at me.
What are you going to do about this?
How are you going to, how are you going to figure this out?
A nod to her style of love and just her influence on me in my
life. And how do I, how do I make this
right? How do I do this?
You know, how do I improve upon this rather than just let it
kill me? Yeah, and what a hard place,

(15:48):
man. Like we were talking about
yesterday, there's no shortage of drugs and alcohol.
And Northwest Portland, north northwest Oregon.
Excuse me, You know what I mean?Anywhere in that area.
Well, I mean, they're legal. Yeah, for sure.
And I and I also have a lot of friends and man, they, they talk
about it often. They're just like, that's just

(16:10):
what you do up there, man. Everybody does it.
It's glorified in a lot of ways.And it's like, that's awesome
for people who are normal. You know what I mean?
Who could maybe drink like normal people, But that's a
foreign language to me. I don't know what that means.
I don't know what that means at all.
Yeah. And yeah, there's a lot of it's,
it is a party place, man. And it is, it's a, that's a

(16:30):
hard. That's why I love going up there
to meetings and to meeting people up there in the recovery
because it's a lot like here, just for different reasons.
Our reason is because the bars don't close, right?
We have just as much abundance as they do, but the bars don't
close here and there. It's just you're from Oregon.
That's what you do. You start young, you do it man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it helps if you work in

(16:54):
the industry. I was doing marketing for
multiple breweries and liquor companies up there.
I was doing marketing for cannabis.
Nothing against cannabis, by theway.
I actually fully support the medical advocacy, the cannabis,
however, alcohol don't support anything about that, you know?
I agree with you actually, it's just not good for me.
I'm 110% sober, not even California sober for many

(17:14):
reasons. We're going to talk about that,
yeah. I mean, I I'm one of those guys
who can take a tool and use it for the wrong reasons.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, I I agree.
I've seen the effects, the medical benefits of medicinal
marijuana. I can't take anybody else's
inventory. I just know, like you said just
now, I, if I do that, I'm going to, I'm, it's not only going to

(17:40):
be a snowball effect for me, butit's also, I'm going to do it
alcoholically. You know what I mean?
It's not. It's like to me that's mind
altering to the point where I would do it alcoholically.
You know, take a screwdriver andattempt to use it as a
jackhammer. It doesn't work, you know.
Agreed. Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, I know we have,
we have different perspectives on this.
And I don't think there's a right or a wrong perspective in

(18:00):
this. But yeah, in our book, it says
in the doctor's opinion that it's total abstinence, right?
It's just, it's plain and simple.
And it's, it's very clear. And, you know, and that I've met
people in the rooms of recovery who were meth addicts for 20
years and now they're fucking lawyers and doctors, you know
what I mean? But they still smoke weed.
I just that's if you feel good, in my opinion, if you're able to

(18:24):
go to sleep at night and have peace and feel like you're truly
sober, then that's then good power to you.
I I won't, but that's. I think the mistake there is in
the wording right, not splittinghairs there is is you're not
actually sober 'cause you are mind altering.
However, you are recovered and in recovery, which is I always,

(18:47):
I never really flipped those two.
I I always say recovery on purpose because I believe it's a
little bit more. I do too altruistic.
I don't just recover. The action of sobriety, yeah,
you know, because we know about dry drunks.
They're sober, but. That's the worst.
Yeah. Are they?
Yeah, that's. That's a tough place to be for
sure. You know you.
See people that might be worse than being fucked up, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Because they're like, well, I'm

(19:08):
sober. It's like technically.
Yeah, but you're an asshole. Yeah.
You suck. Yeah, You suck to be around.
Yeah. No, that's what it is, man.
It's just it's like bone on boneat that point.
There's no cartilage in between anymore, you know what I mean?
It's just fucking. You're just sober.
If you're not doing anything about being sober and you're not
treating the the real problem. And to me, the real problem of

(19:32):
any addict alcoholic is themselves, right?
And it's not. Drugs and alcohol are a symptom
of a larger problem. And the problem is US.
Yeah, Yeah. And we figure out the causes and
conditions one way or the other,and we treat the symptoms
because it's a disease, right? Yeah, I, I mean, one of my

(19:53):
favorite things is a disease. Is it not a disease say that 10
times fast? A lot of s s in there but.
I I'm following I. Saw this doctor explain it one
way. He's like, is it a disease?
Is it not a disease? And he said, who cares?
The reality is, is you're, you're dealing with it and
you're going through it. So label it whatever you want,

(20:13):
but understand that you're suffering.
And that's my like, I, that was my favorite explanation of it
because I was always like, I don't know if it's a disease in
the beginning. It kind of feels like that, you
know, because I'll talk to our patients all day long and be
like, look, at a certain point, I, I do believe that it goes
from a disease spiral model to achoice and that you eventually

(20:34):
exit out of there. That's where you know, you go
from the, the circle 5 paths of recovery, as they say, into
recovery is at some point it does become a choice.
Like for me, I know if I walked out of here and I decided to go
turn it on, I made that choice. It's not living in that mindset
of that disease spiral, feeling like I can't handle these

(20:59):
emotions. I can't handle what's going on
right now. I can't deal.
I need to medicate. Yeah, I, I agree with you that
it is a power, it is a choice ofwillpower, right?
It's it's at some point it is everything we do is a choice.
I think something that spoke to me in early recovery was that I
was powerless over the first, the first, the rest was choices,

(21:22):
right? And it was like, that's word to
me. It was, again, it wasn't really
that. It was more I was suffering from
a spiritual deficiency and that's where I struggled with it
was I have a spiritual deficiency and it's manifesting
in, it's manifesting in abuse, drugs and alcohol.
And I just, it was the first onethat was the only one.

(21:46):
And that's the one that gets youfucked up.
You know what I mean? I mean, you say that spiritual
part and everybody always wigs out about.
That I know. It doesn't really matter what
your higher power is as I said yesterday, you know I always
joke like your God can be the great outdoors.
I do love make it happen I do. Who cares if it if your
spiritual connection is more as we said, like the rooms in the

(22:08):
community, you know, which is also really important as well.
Community is huge. Having not having miserable
company is extremely important in your recovery right bucket.
Is, yeah. And so that can be your higher
power is your community, and it can even be senses of the self
and the capability to then connect within, which sounds
like a little atheistic that youhave to have some sense of being

(22:32):
able to connect with yourself orelse if you just constantly rely
on something outwardly, well, what does that sound like?
Right. Yeah, sounds just like, I don't
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(22:54):
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(23:18):
St. Live.
Thanks so much. There you go.
So you have to be able to kind of connect all three in a style,
right? And that can be your higher
power as your program and what you're working.
You know, Carl Young, he's the one who came up with the whole
concept behind the higher power connection for the 12 step
community specifically. And this is verifiable fact that

(23:39):
he gave this to the, I forget his name right now off the top
of my head. Bill W.
Bill WS friend, doctor Bob theirfriend he oh.
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
I don't know that guy like. Rich Playboy guy who, like, went
over to where Carl Jung was practicing at, and Carl Jung
straight up told him he's like, unless you have a spiritual
awakening, you're never going tofully recover.

(24:01):
Yeah. You're never going to get sober.
Yeah. He brought that back.
Bill W and Doctor Bob ended up using that as that concept.
Carl Jung later on in life, I believe he wrote a letter to
Bill admitting this and you can look this up and I think it's
Alcoholics agnostica. OK cool.
So you this is verifiable like fact No, that Carl Jung like the

(24:25):
psychological genius hailed as one of the like the
psychological geniuses of all time.
You have to have a spiritual awakening.
You have to have some spiritual discovery.
How you define that, how you connect with that, whether it's,
you know, very more traditional style to a little bit more
alternative really doesn't matter.

(24:45):
What kind of matters is is that you're willing to go there.
For sure, I agree that it's willing to go there.
I also agree that it that hung me up to the point where I would
have gone out if it if it if, ifa booming voice from the sky
didn't come down and say, Hey, you're going to fucking drink if
you don't stop. You know what I mean?
And it was it for like you were saying it was.

(25:06):
I had a dry drunk for the first year of my life because I was 21
when I got sober and I did not believe, even though I woke up
in a hospital bed and my life was unmanageable and all these
things. I kept trying to find reasons
why I was different from everyone else, you know what I
mean? And find the differences in all
things and my life got exponentially worse because I

(25:28):
was just sober. You know what I mean?
There was no, the, we talked about the promises and I think
the promises are a general thingfor anybody who just stops
drinking. But the promises weren't coming
true in my life because I hadn'ttreated the, the, the real
problem and I hadn't gotten downto the causes and conditions.
I hadn't got my skeletons out the closet.
I hadn't learned what it was to truly be honest, right?

(25:52):
And most importantly, I didn't know.
I didn't believe in anything bigger than me.
And that was really what the hang up was for me, was
believing in something bigger than me.
And somebody explained it to me in the simplest, easiest way.
And it was like the same thing Itell guys I work with in the
rooms is it's something that loves you inherently and wants

(26:18):
nothing but the best for you andhas all the answers to all the
questions. And if you ask it a question,
it's not going to lead you astray, right?
Like, hey, should I do this bumpoff this prostitute right now?
And you ask your higher power, the higher power probably going
to say no, you know what I mean?And so like, that's a simple
thing. But like for a drug addict and
an alcoholic, that might not be a such a simple choice because

(26:40):
if it's my will and I'm in control, I'm going to do the
bump, you know what I'm saying? So you know.
Yeah, 110%. I mean, something that I've been
more open about recently is likethat jail cell closed behind me.
Yeah, I stood there and I was still, I was still 7 sheets to

(27:01):
the wind for sure. And I threw up a prayer.
I was specifically to my mom, but I think I was just praying
to my mom, hoping she'd pass a message on to whoever.
I wanted to not believe what existed there.
You know, I was just like, mom, you Get Me Out of this in the
next 24 hours. Like you get me, Get Me Out of

(27:22):
this fucking cell in the next 24hours, I will make it happen. 12
hours later I was bailed out by like one of the few guys on the
on the literal cell phone that was willing to answer the phone
at like midnight and he didn't need a down payment.
He's just like no, no worries. Bet it's like as long as you
have the money, like nothing will matter, blah blah blah.

(27:44):
It's the next day I get bailed out. 48 hours later I was in
rehab. I got put on suspended
sentencing for an entire year and they saw my year sobriety
and blah blah blah. Here I am still not in prison
so. That's a beautiful.
Thing, you know, I, I have to throw it out there, like if I'm

(28:04):
to sit here and say that something doesn't exist, I'd be
lying, you know what I mean? Yeah, because I I physically
experienced that. Now you could go down the rabbit
hole. Rabbit hole of over
logisticizing. That or I don't even know if
that's a word, sorry, but. It's a word.
It's a word in Oregon for sure. It's.
A word in my head, yeah, yeah. But like you can go over, you
can over like logically evaluatethat all you want, but in all

(28:29):
reality is, is that's just kind of my reality.
And I'm sticking to it because definitely gotten in some sales
before and what I thought was a 24 to 48 hour hold end up being
a month long process of me sitting around going, what the
hell is going on here? So I don't know man.
I never threw up that pair before.
And that time it worked and I should definitely have that time

(28:51):
because it was on my track record.
DUI #4. Damn.
But DUI #2 in the last 10 years.So it was like, yeah, oh, that's
why you. Should be imprisoned.
Yeah, but I should be. I literally like by definition
of the rules. Yeah, I should be.
Yeah, yeah. All the other like Idiocracy

(29:13):
I've ever participated inside, just those things alone on top
of all the other crap I didn't get caught for, right?
That we all don't get caught forall the BS.
But the end of the day you got to just kind of look at it and
be like, OK, when's enough enough?
And when enough is enough, it doesn't matter where that enough
is. Some people say high bottom, low
bottom, there's worse bottoms and my bottoms doesn't matter.

(29:36):
Matters is is did you bump your ass enough to for it to hurt?
That should be good enough. You know, it's like everybody's
misery is everybody's misery to themselves and their perception
is all that they have and that'stheir world.
So my bottom was that finally, you would think it would have
been the last time for a completely different scenario,
but it wasn't. For some reason, I was like, it

(29:57):
ended up working out in my favor.
That person started the fight, Ifinished it.
There you go. Yeah, Yeah, I still try to
justify shit like that. Yeah, for sure.
I. I mean, I, I've, I've done the
whole like go back and just completely do the entire
inventory and just suck back. The the hard truth of the matter
is, is at the end of the day, it's all my fault.

(30:19):
Yeah, for sure that well, that is the hardest fucking part is
realizing that you got a part ineverything.
Yeah, that is a hard. Yeah.
I mean, if the common denominator is you, it's time to
just, you know, look in the mirror and just go for it.
Accept it. Yeah.
Be Michael Jackson, Yeah. Fuck, I do, yeah.
What's a day like for the impatience up at Crows Nest?
So we're not an inpatient, we'rewe're sober living mix with an

(30:40):
outpatient. Oh, I see what you're saying.
Got it. Inpatient is way different.
That's like locked doors behind you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like live on campus kind of
style, definitely nothing we areequipped to do and we will not
do. We we very regularly.
We get a lot of people who come to us thinking that we're an
inpatient or assuming that they can circumference in inpatient

(31:02):
with us. And we turned them away by
referring them to a lot of people who we've made
connections with in the recoveryworld.
Because at the end of the day, we're we're here for the reasons
that you want to be there, whichis to recover.
I'm not here to make a quick buck, you know, and even in the
beginning when it's really hard to be like, well, let's just get
patients in the door. No, that's out of.
That's out of our scope, you know, So anyway.

(31:25):
So how long do they use? Is it a 30 day program?
Our program can be anywhere from90 days up to a year.
I mean, you can start at PHP, which is pre hospitalization
programming. That'll be anywhere from five to
six days a week. Some people do six days a week
because we make it pretty, pretty fun, I think all the way
down to just regular outpatient.So you'll start at like pre

(31:47):
hospitalization, which is about 5 to 6 days a week.
You'll end up in IOP after that,which is a titrate down, which
is about three days a week. And then outpatient can be two
or one day a week and you can dothat pretty regular.
They just kind of stay in motionof things and at that point.
You cultivated a community at that point.
Yeah, At that point you should also have been working on

(32:08):
cultivating community outside ofthere, attending meetings,
etcetera, etcetera. You know, a lot of people will
come out of inpatients and they'll just, they'll still need
some form of structure and care and accountability that other
people may not need. Like I'm, I'm not going to lie,
the old, the bigger reason, not the only reason, but the huge
reason that I was so able to stay just as focused as I was is

(32:31):
because of this is going to get graphic, but I had a long Dick
of the law poking me in the backlubing up going make a mistake.
Yeah, you know, try it. We're waiting, dude.
You know, they're like we're on.So with that graphic information
out there, yeah. No, it's true.
That was my reality of that situation, but a lot of people
don't have that reality. They get out and you know, if

(32:51):
you're not ready for it, your addiction, let's do it was doing
push ups in the parking lot while you are an inpatient comes
creeping back in pretty quickly,especially if you don't have
good support, good community, good accountability, good bodies
in motion. Stay in motion.
And the best way to stay in motion when you're feeling
fatigued is to be surrounded by other people staying in motion,
being willing to grab you by thehand and say, hey, let's keep

(33:12):
going. You know, so that's what we do.
So you ask for a typical day andI never explained the reality of
who we are, but a typical day, you know, if you're in our, if
you're in our sober living, you know, Monday through Thursday,
our programming is a 7:00 to 8:00 AM with about a 30 to 45
minute like interpersonal check in with with myself.
I run all the morning groups Monday mornings, Jiu Jitsu

(33:34):
Tuesday mornings, what we call fight fit, which is essentially
just a high intensity workout mixed with some heavy bag work.
Hence fight fit. Wednesday is yoga for recovery
and then Thursday's Muay Thai for recovery.
So I coached those except for Monday morning.
I have a black belt in jiu jitsucoaches those because I'm
nowhere well enough equipped in jiu jitsu to be doing that on my
own. And so you wake up, you'll do

(33:56):
that by about 9. You're usually home showered if
you're in the sober living PHP. Usually they're just kind of
like they have that time in the middle of the day and this is
where they have to learn to sit and allow silence or, you know,
you head to the gym. We've got access to a gym where
the house is located nearby. You can do that sauna at the gym

(34:20):
located. There's about 60 trails out the
back door of the house. I mean, we're up in, we're up in
Truckee, you know, and you walk out the back door, you're in the
woods, things of that nature. So, and then in the evening
time, 4:00 to 7:00 PM is our psychosocial, I'm saying that
wrong, but I'm blanking on the word right now.
And that's, you know, where, where the treatment happens, the

(34:41):
dialectical cognitive acceptanceand commitment therapy and those
things happen. It's a lot of acronyms in there.
I'm trying to save you the wheelof Fortune.
No, I get game here. But, you know, there's, there's
that time as well. And that's where we get dive
deep into it. You also have at least one,
one-on-one with a licensed therapist.

(35:02):
And that'll be anyone from one of the people who runs our
groups. We have therapists running our
groups. I can't say I actually am a
counselor because I still need to write my essay and take the
test. But that's all I have left in my
counseling license. Got it.
Wife, same deal. She's a counselor, needs to
write her essay, take the test. Yeah, yeah, it is what it is.

(35:25):
And then we've got a few other counselors, therapists who also
run groups. Friday and Saturday are what we
call our Tahoe days. You're going outside 9:30 to
2:30. Those are the five hour
stretches. Those are what we call like our
PHP people days anyway. So like if you're in PHP, you're
doing Monday through Thursday and Friday or Saturday.
Like prime example is tomorrow they're going on a hike and then

(35:48):
Saturday as like a last hurrah before summer is completely
over, we're going to do a boat day out on Lake Tahoe.
And then we'll start transitioning more into like our
winter programming. Last winter, we were able to get
a bunch of passes donated to us from Sugar Bowl, hoping that
they want to do that again. I'm hoping that I stoked them
out enough with enough marketingmaterial that they saw that as a

(36:10):
good use of their, of their donation time and donation funds
for that matter. Not so much time, but fingers
crossed that'll be a thing that we can pull off again.
And so, yeah, we'll go ride, we'll go snowshoeing, we'll go
on a snow hike. It's kind of funny, some of the
patients who may or may not see this that were in our program
last year on New Year's Eve, I made everybody do a snowshoe

(36:34):
hike, like more around sunset than at midnight.
And it was out to this peak thatlike, I mean, the wind was
howling, it was cold. It was miserable by all
stretches of the imagination. But like, you get out to this
point and it's kind of hard to, like, remember, you're

(36:54):
miserable. And so then we just went back
and did our kind of like, fake little New Year's resolutions.
And I was like, we can't stay, stay sober because that's
already kind of the goal, you know?
So there's a lot of like daily, weekly and monthly like
intentional planning in every single step of the way from like

(37:16):
very beginning all the way down to just outpatient.
And all we're doing really is, is we're just kind of creating
like a habitual slow step, progressive, just one step at a
time style thing, right? Which is sounds familiar, right?
You know, our programming is notanti 12 step.

(37:37):
It's just non 12 step. We're very, very supportive of
the 12 step community, might I add.
In fact, we host 12 step meetings in the evenings when
our groups are not running at our office space.
We're I'm look, dude, anything that is there for people that is
supporting the storm and a refuge from what is awesome.
You know what I mean? You'll get a lot of people in
our programming who are like, I don't know if that's for me,

(37:58):
that's the God people. And I'm like, that's your
perspective now. I'll try and change it.
It is that almost fucking in anything you do in a way, you
know what I mean? I just think that they use the
word more often, but, well, they.
Yeah, something I got stuck up on that I'm now realizing as I'm
a little older and less angry. Yeah, he's slightly less angry,

(38:22):
but you know, is that they, you notice that God is more used in
a more general form of the senseof God then it really is the
Judeo-christian sense of God. It is.
It almost is like a tool. However, the problem is is you
will get the thumpers in there. Yeah, it happens.

(38:42):
And it happens. You also get non thumpers in
there too. And that's what you got to find.
You know, it's this person who used to come to my refuge
meetings that I was running. She'd always say take what you
like and leave the rest. And I've never heard that
before. Yeah, prior times, even my
sponsor back in Oregon when I was doing stuff, more power to

(39:02):
him. He took somebody on like me and
took me under his wing and was very conscious and always
checking in with me and what not.
Even though there was like this half foot out of banana peel,
half foot in a bar kind of a thing.
And if if anything went wrong, you know.
But I did just hadn't heard thatprior to this person saying
that. And I really like that

(39:23):
perspective from her. So I always repeat that to other
people, no. That's, I think that's a life
thing just like you're talking about here.
There's things that you're goingto talk about specifically.
I'd like you to touch on where you came up with or where the
perspective of staying in motionis an effective thing for your
program. You know what I mean because

(39:46):
passage is Malibu. They hang out by the pool all
day. I'm pretty sure you know what I
mean. Place sounds tight and there's,
I don't know what the rates are,but I don't, you know, I don't
know, but I think there is. I believe because I'm sober,
because I'm an addict alcoholic,that there's a correlation
between staying busy, staying active, being in motion and.

(40:08):
And yeah, I'm just curious whereyou came up with this
perspective. Let's be real, how many times
have you gone for a workout and then afterwards been like, I'm
still so angry at this one thing, like a real workout, not
a self-paced, I'm going to go inhere and I'm going to put in an
hour, do a couple of these, couple of these, maybe run on
the treadmill a little bit. I mean, that can be difficult

(40:29):
for some people for sure. But like, if you're in a like a
pretty hardcore heavy hitting, it's pretty hard to worry about
whatever is going on in your life when somebody's trying to
wring your neck. Yep, you.
Know what I mean? And I discovered that by doing
it prior to this stint of sobriety when I found out my kid

(40:51):
was coming along, which I was not sober for that news and
realized that I needed to figureit out.
I went back to my passionate Muay Thai and I just started
training and training and training.
And it was really hard for me tocontinue training and drinking
and using the way I was. Because you did not want to go

(41:12):
get kicked anywhere on your body.
Sorry, no, yeah. Bubble water is biting back.
You did not want to go do that with any sense of a hangover or
alcohol or drugs in your system.Bucknell Cannabis.
Not saying I used it. Yeah, yeah, I used it back then.

(41:33):
Hell yeah. I'd be like going through my day
and like, I feel like I need a drink, so I'd go outside and
smoke a joint and then I'd be a pet Muay Thai just like, yeah,
still hazy. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, still getting to get your ass kicked.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But my point is, is, you know,
that's where I started and I just, I was noticing a lot of
like just mental and emotional clarity coming from this

(41:56):
capability to just take all of my anger and aggression and
focus it and emote and express it.
And I'm not saying it was a perfect system.
I obviously did not get sober atthat time, but I noticed that it
was an effective tool. That makes sense.
And look, if you notice it's an effective tool, make it part of

(42:20):
this program that you want to create as kind of this unique
program. I did enjoy jiu jitsu.
I only did it like once or twicea week, even sometimes once or
twice a month prior to getting out of rehab.
When I was in rehab, part of my process was asking my wife and

(42:41):
giving her a lot of choice and say in things which I had not
done prior to that. You were control free.
Were would be putting it lightly, but I was relenting
some control, Right? And I was like, yeah, I still
deal with control, of course. Right.
You know. But anyway, and she's just like,
I just don't want you to get hitin the head and become a

(43:01):
vegetable. I'd made the mistake of watching
a Muay Thai documentary with herwhere, like, the opening scene
is a guy dying from a headshot. That's not probably the best
thing to show you. Yeah.
Yeah. Your wife.
Yeah. Damn.
Why what you're getting? Into That's why my wife is never
watching motorcycle accident videos.
You know what I mean? Yeah, because.
And so, you know, she's like, I really just don't want a

(43:21):
vegetable or worse. Yeah, you know, as a as a father
of my child and partner in this and so I was like touché.
But I I've got this part of me that needs to compete and needs
to be that way. So I was like, what about
competitive jiu jitsu? She's like, I don't care break
an arm as far as I'm concerned. That's why I'm rocking this
right now. I got my leg almost snatched off

(43:43):
last, but I was like, all right,screw it.
So I went in, you know, and I just went in on that.
But I was still, at that time, Iwas also helping train other
fighters. You know, I've been
traditionally trained Muay Thai since a very young age.
I did take some time off in my 20s for sure and was chasing the
skateboard dream and whatever else, as well as all the things

(44:07):
you do in your 20s that get you to where I'm at.
You. Know and so that's kind of how
that happened was like me just being really into these things
and then me being open about my recovery, other people coming
out of the woodwork from my own small community and then seeing
it in on larger scales like larger stages where people were

(44:29):
very open about these modalitieshelp me stay sober.
And I was just like OK, there's got to be something to do this.
And then I looked it up and I was like there's got to be other
places that do this and there was nothing honestly, I was just
looking them up so I can steal some of their ad copy on their
website to put on mine. You know great artists steal.

(44:50):
Yeah, there was nothing out there.
So I kind of just, I just started working with it.
And in the beginning, you know, everybody is just like, what,
what, what are you doing? You do like jiu jitsu and
recovery. And I got a lot of like looks in
that direction. I've had people literally tell
me I thought you were trying to start a cult.
And I was just like, sure. You know, I just wanted to like

(45:13):
spread the idea of like, hey, ifyou do hard things and it
translates over to hard life. I, I think, and then you can go
down the rabbit hole of like, I always joke that I'm, I'm
podcast smart, you know, becauseI, I would listen to a lot of
podcasts like we all do, especially a lot of the nerd
ones. I really enjoy them, but I'm not
smart smart in that direction scientifically wise.

(45:35):
Don't refer to me for like original and or in depth
research information, but I can definitely spew off some shit
somebody else told me for sure, for sure.
And so Meathead heard a bunch ofscience people on podcast
talking about all these hard things.
And so Meathead did what smart people said.
Yeah. I love that.
I love that, bro. Yeah, no, that's, that's I agree

(45:56):
with you, I think. And I think also people that
might be listening might also bethinking that motion sounds like
a big thing. It's really just one action
after another. You know what I mean?
Like I make a decision on a project the minute I wake up, I

(46:17):
don't think about that project the day before or after I think
about it. I wake up and I this is what I
have to do today. And if I know, hey, today I'm
doing jujitsu, tomorrow I'm doing Muay Thai, tomorrow I'm
going for a hike. Those are great things to keep
your mind busy. And it's a project.
I to me, it's a project and thatcan be an activity as well.
But like in my mind, I, it's, it's compartmentalized as a

(46:41):
project, you know what I mean? So it's like I got to work on my
motorcycle or I have to do some.I don't have to tweak out on
home improvement in my home, butit's really nice when I'm having
a hard day to know, hey, I can do this 4 hour project and by
the end of it I'll have a sense of accomplishment that I've
completed a task. I stayed busy that four hours

(47:03):
and I not once was I thinking about getting fucked up.
You know what I mean? So those are it is a reprieve.
Even with 11 years of sobriety, a a reprieve still looks like an
hour at a time sometimes. You know what I mean?
Sometimes you need that though, let's be real.
Like sometimes you're just in itand you got to have something
that pulls you out of it. And these are we go down the

(47:24):
rabbit hole of like their actualevidence based skills that we
promote in dialectic and cognitive behavioral therapy.
You know, opposite action is DBTskill and it's quite literally I
am feeling and experiencing lifein this way.
So pause, look at that and then do opposite action.

(47:50):
I'm feeling like shutting down, I'm feeling depressed.
I'm feeling like I'm getting into this rabbit hole.
I'm going to sink in. I'm going to isolate for the
day. I'm going to walk away from
everything I'm going to get and you you'll continue to spiral
down. And so we work on, we do a lot
of like, you know, situational awareness, kind of like

(48:11):
together, work together style things, at least in my groups.
I can only speak for my groups and we do situational awareness
and we talk about it and we evengo back to like situations where
perhaps we didn't do that. OK, now how could you walk
through that differently? Now let's go to something where
let's just say hypothetically, this happens when you get home.

(48:31):
How can you opposite action thatand it's literally like in
practice. So when you practice something,
you create new habits, right? And if you continue your
practice and you create a new habit.
And so it's that idea of like it's a reprieve, but it's, it's
also quite literally proven to help you not use.
And so who cares if it's a reprieve?

(48:51):
For sure, and also. Reprieve away.
Just don't end up in the gutter.And also you offer something
that's a little different than traditional facilities and
rehabs and things like that. It's it's you're walking away
with something that probably most of these people have never
done. You can go look up a jiu Jitsu
place in five miles of your house, pretty much anywhere, you

(49:14):
know what I mean? You can go look up a Muay Thai
place in five miles of your house.
You know what I mean? You, you're teaching things
like, man, I never knew I like to fucking hike, you know what I
mean? So you're at you know, when you
when you leave there, you're actually walking away with with
the biggest disconnect, which ishow do I do this sober?

(49:35):
You know what I mean? How do I go to a fucking how do
I go do anything when I've been programmed my entire life to do
a drunk and fucked up or on drugs or on blow or whatever.
I can go to a baseball game and be sober now.
You know what I mean? I can go do these things sober.
I can have a community around methat isn't that also is sober,

(49:56):
you know what I mean? Or or or at least not having the
same problem as me. Well, if you look at it just
from a coaching aspect, and I say coaching and like, act like
physical coaching, like I, I've had to coach martial arts quite
a few years now. We're I didn't think about that
until just now. And I've been to like coaches
seminars on how to create a moresolid system.

(50:19):
Shout out to Adam for getting meto go to that at elevated
Academy martial arts. You know, these coaches things
that he's had me do and everything is only improved.
It's improved other parts of my life, but you learn in these
things. You have to make them easy,
specific and very much repeatable all across the board.
And so like, you know, we go down to Dublin, CA and hang out

(50:44):
with Cariann at his Academy and he's got, you know, medals from
wall to wall and people in therethat you only see on TV that
have trained at his gym and he'sbrought up.
So he's done the reps, he's proven he's got champions,
right? So you listen to that and you
look at that and you go, OK, this is relatable because this

(51:09):
guy knows what to do and his systems are simple and they're
straightforward and they're basic and it's the basics.
And I look, don't get mad at me if you're using this accent.
But I the last like traditional Muay Thai coach, I had Cobb down
in Eugene when he's from Thailand.
He'd just be like basic win fights, basic swing fights, no
fancy basic win fights, you knowwhat I mean?

(51:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You kick hard.
You kick harder. Yeah.
You know, simple. Yeah, just simple.
Kick, arms, kick leg, kick, arm,kick, leg.
You know, that's it. I love it.
You know what I mean? No fancy sidestep anything else.
And yeah, he's not. He's not wrong.
What does that sound like? Basics win fights, basics win in
recovery. The basics.
You know what, what's what's simple, repeatable and

(51:51):
attainable. OK, specific, measurable,
attainable, repeatable and timely and smart that that
acronym. And we do SMART goals every
week. And then also like as in
general, like the program is repeatable.
You can leave here and go to a Muay Thai gym, a jiu Jitsu gym,
you can go. I, I mean, you could join any

(52:12):
crosstown or crosstown CrossFit gym.
Sorry. There's Dreamtown CrossFit in
Truckee and that's how I got that messed up.
Sorry also. You're looking for the plug.
There you go. Yeah, yeah.
But you can go to these gyms andlike our hit fight fit isn't too
far off from CrossFit. We do a body system just like we
they do in CrossFit. We do a lot of kettle bells.

(52:33):
We do a lot of calisthenics. We do a lot of body weights, do
a lot of medicine balls, like wedon't do a lot of barbells and
whatnot, but I'm sure throwing abarbell isn't too far off from a
few other things. And then we just smack a bag
around. So then you just, you eliminate
the bag, right? So the whole goal of this is, is
that when you leave you, you're ready to go enter somewhere else

(52:55):
and you've got a sense of understanding to where you can
sink into these like at least somewhat healthy communities
where when you walk in there, it's like, OK, people are there
to train and to focus on their body movements and their time
and their effort and their energy versus oh, I get home and
I'm bored and I'm just going to end up back at.
The bar So you're equally as focused on recovery as you are

(53:19):
as a program of living, it sounds like.
Under 10%, yeah. The, the goal here is is to
hopefully build enough skill andknowledge and care within
yourself that when you leave, you have that level of self
respect you possibly didn't have, let's be real, you didn't
have in your in your addiction. And hopefully you're you're
leaving. They're going all right.

(53:40):
I got this and I feel good aboutthis.
And I know that in my heart of hearts that I want more out of
life than that from here on out.And also I know that I can go to
these different places rather than just another room.
Well, there's nothing wrong withjust another room, but it also
is nice to have some variety andto be able to live a little bit
and then say your thing is wrenching on a motorcycle and

(54:01):
you're like, I'm just going to go back to wrenching rad.
You know, that's why we do a lotof the psychological and
emotional and the situational awareness within, like the
feelings and the emotions and the triggers and the cravings as
well is because at least you're equipped with that and then go
wrench and sure, you'll end up finding some other sober people
that bike as well. Exactly.
You know, where they once you'reonce you.

(54:21):
I've always noticed that once you kind of put an energy out
there tends to attract same. Just as much as misery loves
company, so does recovery. And positivity.
Yeah, all that, for sure. Yeah.
No, it like you were saying, I, I relate a lot to that.
There wasn't a huge culture as Isaw it should be when I was

(54:42):
first getting here as far as motorcycles go.
And we kind of grew our own and those people found me, you know
what I mean? I just was building motorcycles
and trying to be sober and trying to figure out how could
that could be the catalyst to a day sober and and my part of my
reprieve and and the people thatthought similarly, they sought

(55:04):
me out. And now we're sitting in the now
we're sitting in a place that was built by that, you know what
I mean? So that's a beautiful thing, you
know? Yeah. 110%, you know, and so
takes time, takes effort, it takes energy like that.
I never lie to anybody. It's hard work ain't sober.
It's tough. You live in a society.
I I help perpetuate that society.

(55:24):
I worked in this industry, as I say, you know, I help promote
alcohol and drug abuse quite literally in a legal market.
And I made my living off that fed my family.
It's easy as hell to do. It's not hard to sell a shot of
whiskey, right? People love that.
Quick, easy, a good time. It's not hard.

(55:45):
What more do you have to sell you?
Sometimes all you got to do is just take a photo and as long as
it's attractive enough with the right lighting and maybe hands,
and it looks like there's a social setting sells itself.
That was. But you know, I for all my angst
against all my angst against social media, you can trick your

(56:08):
algorithm into being positive too.
Like I've got a couple social media channels where all I get
are like people who are just promoting the idea of self
improvement and self help. And some of those people are a
little over the top. So you got to weed out the wild
ones, You know, the David Goggins of the world.
God, yeah. I mean, I hate to love that guy.
I that he's don't he's crazy, but I but it's like it's

(56:32):
somebody he's it's working for somebody.
It's working for somebody and that's great.
It's not my cup of tea. Man, that's all there is to
where's he running? Yeah, I don't know.
What are you running from dude? God damn, where's he going,
dude? Yeah.
But there's actually a hilariousmeme Speaking of jujitsu.
It's like AI think it's Elio Gracie, one of the Gracie's and

(56:53):
it says you just ran 50 miles question mark and then
underneath it's like what are you running from?
It's just like one of the grace you do, just like sitting there
looking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that
dude. Like, yeah.
It's kind of I feel minus the tough guy aspect.
Where are you running from? But I mean, I go on runs, you
know, 2-3 miles. I'm gasped.
My knees are like, yeah, fuck you.
So, but you know, everybody's got their stuff.

(57:15):
Again, back to the social media thing.
If you start to feed your own feed with what you're interested
in, it'll it'll change too. It it just depends on your
decision and what you decide to make of it.
And it's not easy. And there are days where you
wake up and go, God damn, I wantto use another thing I stole
from the rooms is is no matter how far you drive, the ditch is
right there. Yeah.

(57:36):
So even though I don't go to therooms a lot, I can tell you that
I've learned a lot in the rooms and it definitely helps.
So yeah, I've heard the rooms, I've heard that or, or I've
also, what is it? Everywhere you go, there you'll
be, you know what I mean? There's only one place in town I
take my Harley-Davidson motorcycle too, and that is Slab
Sides Motorcycle Shop on Glendale Ave. in Reno.

(57:56):
If you're looking for a tune up customizing your motorcycle bars
exhaust, they've got everything you need and one of the best
hourly rates in town for any of your motorcycle repair stuff.
Go check out slab size motorcycle shop.
It's like. Yeah, my old man used to say
that when I was younger, but he wouldn't explain past that.
He liked to do this just kind oflike Chinese.
Good man. Yeah, I love it.

(58:17):
Yeah. What?
The fuck this stoic cowboy one liner guy?
Yeah, I love that shit. It's like, yeah.
I'm going to hit you with my skateboards.
But goddamn it, now you remember.
If you would have explained it, you wouldn't have remembered it,
bro, You know what I mean? Yeah.
No, it's he's your old timer's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, that's what's
funny. Like, if you think about it, all
the times I failed and then you,I look back on the people and

(58:39):
what they said and didn't explain it to me, it's because
they knew they were wise enough to know that it had to be my own
discovery. And now I'm now that I'm on the
other side of it and I say shit.And they're like, what do you
mean by that? And I'm just like, figure it
out. Yeah, you know, we all do.
Like, trust me, you'll get there, dude.
Don't worry about it. But it's just funny to think
back on that and be like, shit everybody was telling me all

(59:03):
along and I didn't think about it that way, you know?
Yeah, no, that's real. When people are interested, how
are they reaching out to you guys?
They call on your phone numbers.Yeah, so like we call it the
ranch phone, Crows Nest Ranch, right?
We just call it the ranch phone.It's our just our business line
530-448-4555. You can also go to

(59:25):
crowsnestranch.org. Big contact us button right on
the front page, big phone numberbutton right on the front page.
The entire website is completelydesigned around being able to
contact us, Google us phone number and where we're at is
pretty available. Sometimes I'm on the phones and
you get me. We're pretty small, like mom and

(59:48):
pop style organization and I like it that way.
To be honest. I think it makes us more
effective. We have a 97% completion rate of
our program, which is way above industry average.
We're also small. We're also new.
So I can say that now, who knows, you know, and. 10 years,
maybe it's back down, back down to industry average, but right
now, you know, because of our like slow client, low patient to

(01:00:12):
practitioner ratio. And I just think in the way that
we take a personal approach to things is why that is that way.
But again, I'm not saying it's for sure, for sure and it's
forever going to be that way. But right now it feels good to
be able to say that. So I'm saying it.
Yeah. And is this is that phone call

(01:00:33):
kind of like a 12 step call almost, You know what I mean?
No, we just, you call us and we just need to hear how you're
doing, where you at, What are you thinking?
Depends on the person and their level of voice and the tone
really is how I address it. So that's how it has to be.
And anybody who answers the phone call, really we're just
trying to hear how are you doing?

(01:00:54):
Usually it's a loved one. Actually, it's more often than
not, it's a loved one of the person.
If somebody's calling, they're pretty manic.
We're pretty adamant about like,OK, hey, like here's what we
here's what we suggest you should do.
If somebody calls pretty manic, there's a good chance they're
still pretty much in their heavyuse.
And we're going to recommend youout to like higher level of care
because I'm a firm believer that, you know, if your

(01:01:15):
insurance will cover it, go takethat time to just have time.
I always make the joke that likewith my wife, I'm like, you
know, I'm not going to lie. Me recommending these people to
go to inpatients and some of theinpatients we refer to, it's
like maybe I'm just going to call my insurance one of these
days and be like, I feel like I'm in a relapse.
Can I go on? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm going to go on a 30 day vacation.
Can I get a vacation? Yeah.

(01:01:35):
Can I go to summer camp for 30 days somewhere?
Yeah, no, I love that joking I'm.
Not trying. I'm not trying to.
Yeah, no, that's a beautiful thing, man.
You know somebody that might be struggling right now, What's
your advice to them? Reach out and reach out fast and
be willing to take the big step.Just it's not a step backwards

(01:01:56):
to go into recovery. It's a step forwards and it's a
big step to take and it's scary and it's weird and you feel the
sense of shame and guilt when inall reality it should be the
exact opposite. It should be the sense of
renewal and hope that you're moving into a place where you're
finally prioritizing yourself and your mental and emotional
freedom to be able to take that step.

(01:02:17):
Employers out there are going tohate me for this, but it's ADA
protected. You know, if you're afraid of
losing your job, you, you can't,you have to call into your boss
and say, hey, I have a problem and I'm seeking help and they
have to let you go do that, legally speaking.
I mean, they also have to give you that job when you get home.
There you go. So your job would be waiting for

(01:02:37):
you if that's what you're worried about.
Right. If that's not the case and you
just need help and you can take the time, then do it and take
the time. What's a year to what is the
average lifespan? 75 years?
It's 175th. I can't do the percentages
there, but it's pretty small. But you spend a year inpatients
through the outpatients. And then from there, I would say

(01:03:00):
if you spend a year focusing on your recovery and being able to
get through it, especially if you have insurance, make your
insurance pay for that stuff. We, we go hard at insurance
companies like we, we make them,we make them pay them.
If you're paying your insurance and your insurance should be
covering it and that's just all there is to it.
Nothing against the private pay organizations out there.

(01:03:21):
We just want to make it as accessible as possible.
Period. You know, we're taking on
medical contracts for because Truckee is split between plaster
and Nevada County. So we'll be able to offer
medical treatment here soon to people who are on medical.
I was on Oregon Healthcare Plan,which is Medical of Oregon, and
I was able to go to outpatient for an entire year.
And it was probably one of the more pivotal years of my life.

(01:03:44):
I didn't get fully sober becauseabout seven months into that
COVID hit. And then we went to telehealth
and I started drinking during outpatient hours, like filling
up a cup behind the screen and then pulling it forward and be
like, Oh yeah, it's great. It's convulsion.
I love that. That's funny.
Yeah. But I get high before drug and
alcohol counseling, before I gotsober for real.

(01:04:06):
You know what I mean? I'd have drug and alcohol
counseling. I'd fucking be like I the only
way I can sit through this is tobe fucked up.
You know what I mean? Yeah, so.
But still, like, that gave me a semblance of like, it made me
think a lot because I at least had to show up and do it.
Now. This is why we're not telehealth
is because I was literally able to use Wow on a call, you know,

(01:04:29):
even if I was on screen, it was,it's the screen picks up this
much, you can operate off or disappear for a SEC, get back on
kind of a thing. What are you doing?
So we like to be in person. I'm pretty adamant about that.
We there are great places that offer telehealth if, if being in
person is just not in the books for you.
And there's a lot of reasons whybeing in person is not in the

(01:04:51):
books for people. And there's nothing against
telehealth. It's just we personally take the
stance of being interpersonal and taking that approach.
Yeah, yeah. And we talked about this a
little bit yesterday. I wanted to touch on this
because it's something that's been coming.
Now there is a statistic I read yesterday and it is there is a,

(01:05:14):
it's three times harder for women to get sober than men.
Do you believe that this statistic is accurate and from
your business and why do you think it is?
Because I'd love to share a perspective I have on it as
well. I know that four to one people
in recovery are men. I know that statistic block the

(01:05:36):
top of my head and that can be for an amalgamation of different
reasons. From my perspective, I think
it's due to the fact that men get arrested and get in more
legal trouble when they get messed up.
We are Cavemen. Cave.
Yeah, we're fucking. We're monkeys, dude.
Yeah. There can also be the societal
expectation that the women need to keep it together, so they

(01:05:57):
hide it better, which makes it harder and also harder to enter
treatment. Why there's less of them in
there? So that could be a direct
correlation. There could be the society, I
think it all pretty much breaks down to a societal influence
more than anything else and expectation and kind of that
traditional role and non traditional roles nowadays like

(01:06:18):
being a boss ass bitch and beingable to hand your handle your
shit. Can't have, can't be weak, can't
have any moments. Which sounds like what?
To guys? Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, welcome to the party, honey.
We've been getting that story for years, you know, but.
Yeah. And I'm not complaining here.
I'm just saying it's just another, yet again, another
barrier, mental and emotional, that keeps them from wanting to

(01:06:40):
perhaps seek out and state I've been dealing with this.
Right. Yeah.
I also think that, you know, I can speak from my wife's
perspective is that she would always look at my addiction and
go, well, it's not that bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just different, yeah. She and she would just be like,
well, I'm not getting arrested. I'm not this.

(01:07:01):
I'm not that. My life isn't that wild.
It's not that crazy. Yeah, 100% agree with you.
I'd I think the only thing I'd like to add to that is in my
experience it takes a little bitlonger because of I didn't have
a bunch of hot ass chicks aroundme telling me my behavior was

(01:07:21):
acceptable. I lost everyone right in my
life. I lost everything and everyone
that ever mattered to me. And that was a necessary,
crucial part of my recovery process because that wouldn't,
that alone wasn't enough for me to get sober, you know what I
mean? It was death, it was
institutions, it was jail cells.It was literally the bottom

(01:07:44):
started to feel like concrete, you know what I mean?
There was no more deeper I couldhave dug.
But what I'm getting at is in myexperience, there's women out
there, especially beautiful women.
All women are beautiful, but beautiful women, they have,
they'll have a guy that will cosign anything for him.
You know what I mean? You're hot, whatever, you know
what I mean? Yeah, you're it's not that bad,

(01:08:06):
you know, and you know, that's been a perspective.
And I just want to touch on thisbecause just like you said with
your wife, there's so much comparison and really to me,
what, what a decision to turn your life around really is.
Whatever bottom you've decided to turn it around.
And just like he was saying, it's a choice to do it.

(01:08:30):
It's also a choice to stop doingit, right?
So it's, if you believe your life is unmanageable just for
you, then it fucking is. You know what I mean?
It is 'cause like what you find unmanageable and what I find
unmanageable are vastly different things.
And both of them are right. You know what I mean?
They're both unmanageable. And so I, if you're listening

(01:08:53):
and you're struggling with drugsand alcohol and you didn't crash
your car or you didn't have FordDU is that's fucking OK.
There's a reason we're talking because we don't want you to
have to get to that point or worse.
So you can tell the story. You can make a decision to turn
your will and your life over because you're, you lost.

(01:09:15):
You're not in control. And that's what a relief that
we're not in control, bro. What a relief that we don't have
to make all the big decisions, you know what I mean?
It definitely alleviates a lot of stress when you do like me
being a control freak and havingto admit that I do have only so
much control things I do have control over and very
controlling. But you know, to your point is,

(01:09:38):
is what you're saying to Gal Cosine for anything is I told my
wife I was like, you don't have to carry this cross with me.
You're not as bad as me. I said that to her and she was
just like, no, no, no, no. I think I need to as well.
In all reality, we did meet, youknow, my pick, my pick up line,
her pick up line to me was do you like whiskey?
And I was like, I love to pair with cocaine too.

(01:09:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean?
That's our pick up line. It's a great pair, you know what
I mean? And we were both just like,
sweet, let's get fucked up and die for sure.
That's how we met, right. And so, you know, that's true.
But if you are struggling, like,and as the society opens up and
as the world opens up and the very real reality of being a
human is just a what it is, right?

(01:10:22):
It's the human experience. And we're all in this.
I always say that life is a shitsandwich and we've all been
served our corner. It's when your perspective
shifts that it goes from being ashit sandwich to a lovely dance,
at least a nice meal if you wantto stick down the food path.
But like, it is what it is. It's a shit sandwich until you

(01:10:43):
decide it's no longer a shit sandwich.
And then knowing that you're just part of this existence,
that you're not the only person struggling.
I always drive this concept hometo people who are struggling.
Is is, hey, man, we are all struggling.
I'm, I'm a little, just at about3 1/2 years and I'm struggling

(01:11:04):
in my own regards, but I'm stillstruggling and you're at X
amount of months, days, almost ayear, whatever it may be, you,
whoever I'm conversing with, you're struggling 11 years.
You said you're struggling. And that sense of shared
struggle is what makes it so much easier to be like, OK, I'm

(01:11:24):
not alone. And knowing that you're not
alone is tough because how, how unique and how different you
said it yourself, I know I'm different from everybody else.
We all said that, didn't we? That's the great obsession.
Right, I know, I I know I'm better than this.
I would, I knew I was better than this because like in in in
my little world of my shit was like, I was pretty self-made.

(01:11:46):
Like my family didn't really have to like ride me.
I got straight as as I was a fucking nerd.
You know, I was like the nerd jock slash skate punk kid.
I was a weird collection of things, right?
Yeah. And then like got myself into
college, got myself through college, you know, I, I was very
much like, I'm, I know what I can do.
I know how to get myself there. Fuck you, Like, and then on top

(01:12:08):
of that, my profession, being inthat industry, I'm like, what
are you talking about? It literally pays my bills.
So I, I was way deep in the rabbit hole with that idea of
I'm different, but I know I'm not now I know I'm not for sure.
You know, I think back then I had a sense that I knew I
wasn't, but I just wanted to hang on to that pride a little
longer. You know, you're not too far

(01:12:28):
different. And I always point out the
people in my program are like, look around the room, All of you
have raised your hand over the same things I've said, Hey,
raise your hand if you experience this.
Hey, raise your hand if you experience that, raise your hand
if you have this, that the otherthing, new person who just came
in and her, her imposter syndrome.
And I looked around the room andwas like, raise your hand if you
have imposter syndrome. Everybody's hands go up and I

(01:12:51):
go, you're not alone. We're all here, man.
We're all here because we're notall there, as I say.
But it is what it is, you know, and as he said, you know, don't
be afraid to reach out. Don't be afraid.
It doesn't have to be me. Go to a meeting, bite the
bullet, take the first step, whatever it takes, you know, get
in there. Don't bite a bullet that sounds
too suicidal, but you know, get in there, get after it and be

(01:13:14):
willing to just shed. Just let it go.
Trust me, the, the way you carry, you're carrying it by
yourself and the more you're willing to shed it and look at
this as a look at this is more of an opportunity and less of a
loss. The booze bag weighs the drug

(01:13:34):
bag weighs more than what it weighs on a scale or in a glass.
You know, it's not, it's not 18 oz, it's not a gram, it's not an
8 ball. I speak from cocaine there.
But you know, whatever your drugof choice is, right?
It's, it is what it is. It's not that it's everything
followed by it that you continueto carry around that just
absolutely shrivels you down, You know, so D waiting that

(01:13:58):
getting out from under that rockis awesome.
I mean we're all standing out. You and I are standing on the
other side of that going. It's the water's nice.
So be willing to do that. Seek help and go to somebody.
And if you're not ready to go topeople you know yet, go to
somebody, go find a meeting and just just start slugging, you
know, be willing to do it. That's that's my two cents at

(01:14:19):
the end of the day is like be willing to find help wherever
that help is best fitting for you.
And if you need to seek higher levels of care, find that too.
Ask around, ask people, don't beafraid to take advice.
That's the hardest part is taking advice, you know, because
we're all so goddamn smart in the beginning.
But. And there and there's levels to
this in my opinion. I think that, yeah, I think that

(01:14:43):
if you right now, what the crow's nest in my mind would be
good for is if you are struggling right now and you are
maybe unsure of being left to your own devices, this is a
great way to take your own devices off the table.

(01:15:05):
You know what I mean? It's a great way to just, it's
like, to me, a program like yours is a lot like having a
personal trainer at the gym. You know what I mean?
Not only are you a little more motivated, but you have somebody
watching you, helping you, telling you what to do and
trying to go. Never been going into the gym
before and going there first time and feel like you know what
you're doing. It's not going to happen.
So it's the same thing with withrecovery.

(01:15:27):
It's it is a muscle just the same.
So it's this is where you go where you're worried if you're
going to be alone, you're worried that you're going to be
around the same people, places or things.
This is where you can go to havea certain level of
accountability and just a littleless worry of what's your
environment is going to look like for a little while.

(01:15:48):
And that's half the fucking battle, man.
It'd be really hard getting sober off dope if the dope man
lived next door, you know what Imean?
So that's. My Kinect literally lived next
door the last like couple monthsin in Portland when I stopped,
when I stopped being like, yeah,it's hard a low end fish scale
dealer to just being a full blown addict.
It was like, yo, what up, you know?

(01:16:13):
Like no, I love it man. Fucking COVID.
Let's get high. Yeah, the.
Fuck too. Yeah, that was a crazy fucking
time, dude Yeah, that was a crazy time for recovery, believe
it or not. Yeah, Yeah.
And a lot of people used it as just like Alcoholics and I do as
an excuse too, you know what I mean?
I. Would like hold up and go after

(01:16:33):
it, yeah. For sure.
It's like, oh, well, you know, the meetings aren't over.
Like, yeah, you know what I mean?
I definitely caught myself trying to justify some poor
behavior because of lack of meetings during that time, but
well, I really appreciate you being here man.
Yeah, thanks for having. Me, is there any books that
jumped out at you in your life? We can add it into the end of

(01:16:54):
the BIOS. That something that you love,
that maybe change your perspectives or just something
you loved. Yeah.
I mean, I weirdly enough, a lot of my recovery has been a lot of
meditation. I mean, I'm not very shy about
that and a lot of of like Buddhish mindset lifestyle
choices. Some books that changed my life
specific documentary style ones starting with Noah Levine's

(01:17:16):
Dharma punks. I really enjoyed that one.
Obviously, I'm a I'm a fan of like the way he goes because he
started refuge recovery punk to Monk is another one from the
lead singer of youth of today, Ray Raghunath.
I don't know is like Ray Capo from Youth of today there.

(01:17:37):
I think he goes by Ray Raganoff now too.
Great book though. It's really awesome.
It's a lot of self discovery. He doesn't go through per SE
addiction, but he goes through the mindset of it breaks down
what he saw as addiction 'cause he was straight edge hardcore
like since day one kind of a thing.
So that's probably a little bit further on.
Michael Easter wrote two really great books.
He's a he's like a very prominent like figure and 12

(01:18:00):
step. He's also a very like successful
author and kind of outspoken advocate for personal
improvement. And so both of his books comfort
crisis and now I'm going to kickmyself in the ass because I
literally recommend both these books out all the time.

(01:18:21):
The other one is look at MichaelEaster.
Sorry, Dopamine Nation by Anna Lemke.
She's been a long time addictionpsychologist and she breaks it
down and she doesn't even use the addiction of substances in
her book. She uses the addiction of
something else. It gets graphic.
It has to do with male masturbation, but it is pretty

(01:18:43):
funny at times like this. This guy like developed a way to
masturbate with a record player to which I'm like, you got to
love jacking off. Damn.
Who has the time? You don't know.
Damn right. And so, but like, she breaks it
down from kind of that perspective.
You know, there's a lot of greatreads out there.
Those are the ones I really liked.
It started with Dharmapunks whenI was in rehab.

(01:19:05):
I'd read it once when I was pretty high on acid way back in
the day. And I was like, that's a neat
story, but not for me. And then I had my wife like send
me a couple books and she sent me that one.
Another great book is You Can't Win by the author Jack Black.
Not the famous actor, singer-songwriter.
Look up you can't win by Jack Black.
He was a pimp, a bank robber, anopiate addict back in like the

(01:19:31):
days when you could like ride train to train and just go from
city to city and they would havelike a reward on a this is pre
technology days. And he wrote a book all about
how he was just constantly chasing the wind and the high of
like Robin Banks and making it big and chasing his opiate
addiction, everything else. And at the end of it, it is just

(01:19:52):
like when I finally succumbed tothe fact that that was not the
way to be and that I had to change my life.
So that was that's pretty wild. One.
It's it's not even really necessarily recovery specific,
but it's very recovery subject and throughout the whole thing.
Adjacent. Yeah, there's a lot out there.
There's a lot of really great books.
Honestly, I'd be I'm doing a lotof them an injustice right now.

(01:20:17):
Gave her mate's myth of normal. It's like 600 pages and it's a
long haul but worth it. I'm reading a book right now
called Risk. The lady actually is from Tahoe
and I'm forgetting her name. But one of the guys who came out
of the woodworks at my gym who was he follows a path of
sobriety, gave me the book and he's his thing was river
rafting. And she's like a this gnarly

(01:20:37):
river person who just talks about how she dealt with like an
attic brother who and then took over his son and everything else
and kind of from that perspective and that.
An al Anon. Perspective.
Yeah, it's, it's more of like a,it's more of a story of
resilience, but it's really awesome.
I'm like halfway through it and I have a hard time putting it
down. You know, don't be afraid to
just read some stories that havenothing to do with that, you

(01:20:58):
know, disconnect a little bit. Enjoy yourself.
I'm a fiction author, yeah. Fiction.
So go to the fiction round dude too.
Yeah, disconnect. As well.
That's an escape. That's disconnect.
That's yeah, Lays potato chips and that's OK.
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, so.
But sustenance substance is justas good as being able to
disconnect and not take yourselftoo seriously too, you know what

(01:21:20):
I mean? Yeah, for sure.
You know, pay attention to life,pay attention to people around
you. If you've been tuning into a
channel maybe 10 years into a different channel and listen to
other folks and like look and read and 1% go online and seek
things out and be willing and open to new stuff.
I love it, man. Thank you so much for being

(01:21:42):
here, my friend. Yeah, thanks.
We will put all your stuff. What's they?
It's at the Crow's Nest Ranch onInstagram.
I think it's Crow's Nest Ranch, Truckee.
On Instagram. Yeah, because there is a Crow's
Nest Ranch in Texas. They're like a traditional
actual horse ranch. The horse ranch, it's now
Crowbar, actually, because my brother took over the ranch and

(01:22:02):
he renamed it to Crowbar Ranch. So yeah, I mean, we're Crow's
Nest Ranch. Crow's Nest Ranch.
Truckee on instagramcrowsnestranch.org is
our website if. You're and if you're struggling
and you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you have a
guy right here. This is your burning Bush
moment. Give him a call and I promise

(01:22:24):
you your life won't fucking get worse.
How about that? You know what I mean?
So for sure. You know, I mean, it might get a
little worse the level of activity we do if you're not
into used to that at first mightmight suck.
But hey, it's a good suck. It is a good.
Yeah, Well, thanks so much for being here, my friend.
We'll see you soon. Thanks so much.

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Jordan Brandt #16 | Fourth Street Live

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jordan Brandt #16 | Fourth Street Live