This week we talk to Cari Wolters from Michigan. Cari now is a seasoned coach helping high achieving women but she takes us back to 2020 when she was deep in the struggle of drinking every night and hangovers anxiety every day. With her relationships strained and self doubt about the kind of mother she was to her young kids, she used curiosity to find her way out - lets jump in and find out how!
Cari Wolters
https://www.facebook.com/cari.wolters
https://www.instagram.com/sobercuriouslife/
https://www.sobercuriouslifecoaching.com/
Our 30-day group programme:
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/aff-group
The podcast home page
https://podcast.alcoholfreedomfinders.com/
Justine Clark
https://justineclarktherapy.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/wellwithjustine/
Barry Condon
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/
https://www.instagram.com/clean.life.coaching/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-condon-577b85294/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Alcohol Freedom Finders.
This week we talked to CarrieWalters from Michigan.
Carrie is now a seasoned coachhelping high achieving women,
but she takes us back to 2020when she was deep in the
struggle of drinking every nightand hangovers and anxiety every
day with a relationship,strained and self-doubt about
(00:20):
the kind of mother she was toher young kids.
She used curiosity to find herway out.
Let's jump in and find out how.
Justine Clark (00:28):
So, everybody.
I am genuinely
Cari Wolters (00:31):
Hey, everybody I
Justine Clark (00:32):
be more
Cari Wolters (00:33):
excited today could be more delighted and
excited to hear Harry.
Justine Clark (00:38):
curious life coach, and we can't wait to hear
her alcohol freedom finderstory.
I.
Barry Condon (00:46):
Hi,
Cari Wolters (00:46):
I'm so excited to share.
Hey guys,
Barry Condon (00:49):
Great to see you.
Great to
Cari Wolters (00:50):
great to see you.
Good to see you.
Barry Condon (00:51):
we've known each other
Cari Wolters (00:52):
we've known each other now for, what is it, eight
months?
Nearly two.
That's right.
Barry Condon (00:55):
and I know a little bit
Cari Wolters (00:56):
And I know a little bit about.
Barry Condon (00:58):
from, from sort of times when we've,
Cari Wolters (01:00):
Story times when we've had,
Barry Condon (01:01):
group,
Cari Wolters (01:02):
group,
Barry Condon (01:02):
our own stories.
Cari Wolters (01:03):
our own story.
yeah.
so why don't you take us back towhen you first sort of
Barry Condon (01:08):
something about.
Cari Wolters (01:10):
thought about
Barry Condon (01:10):
drinking
Cari Wolters (01:11):
the way I'm drinking,
Barry Condon (01:12):
you know, how that came
Cari Wolters (01:13):
how that, you know, how that came about.
Barry Condon (01:14):
how you, ultimately
Cari Wolters (01:15):
How you
Barry Condon (01:16):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (01:16):
found, alcohol freedom.
Justine Clark (01:17):
So
Cari Wolters (01:18):
Yeah.
So
Justine Clark (01:19):
me
Cari Wolters (01:19):
thank you for having me, Barry and Justine, my
friends from afar, as I'm in theUnited States and you guys are
across in your countrys, whichis beautiful.
just so grateful to be here withyou.
My story started
Justine Clark (01:31):
started
Cari Wolters (01:32):
I started getting curious, should we say, hence
sober curious life coach.
I like to lead myself incuriosity and it.
Has really been a themethroughout my entire life, when
it comes to alcohol.
And so in 2020 I decided Ineeded to get curious with
substance, the substance ofalcohol, right?
I was like, gotta get curious oflike, do I need this anymore?
(01:56):
Do, do, is this do?
Is this really bringing me joyand all the things?
Justine Clark (02:00):
I
Cari Wolters (02:01):
I just had to go into this state of questioning
myself of
Justine Clark (02:04):
is
Cari Wolters (02:04):
what is this substance and is it what I think
it is?
'cause I'm giving a lot of powerto it.
And it almost felt like I waslosing myself in, in October of
2020.
And so let's rewind back tocuriosity.
Curiosity started when I was alittle girl.
I was very curious.
Justine Clark (02:19):
my
Cari Wolters (02:20):
in my home and, and who I was.
And curious, curious about myfaith.
Curious about what it was to bea woman in this, world.
Curious about,
Justine Clark (02:29):
connect
Cari Wolters (02:29):
how to connect with God.
I was just, curiosity waseverywhere.
And one thing that wasn't in myhouse as a child
Justine Clark (02:37):
alcohol,
Cari Wolters (02:38):
alcohol,
Justine Clark (02:38):
was no
Cari Wolters (02:39):
so there was no curiosity there.
Justine Clark (02:41):
Alcohol.
Cari Wolters (02:42):
Alcohol wasn't existent.
I grew up in a religious home,and so it was kinda like, oh,
Justine Clark (02:46):
That's
Cari Wolters (02:46):
that's a non-issue.
However, what happened for meand my personality, because I'm
very,
Justine Clark (02:52):
but
Cari Wolters (02:52):
curious, but also like,
Justine Clark (02:54):
little
Cari Wolters (02:54):
a little rebellious, right?
Is, oh, there's no alcohol inthe house.
I, yeah, exactly.
I wonder why and when I maybeleave the house, what will that
be like, what, what role willalcohol play?
And I was very curious aboutthat.
So, I had, you know.
Minimal experiences with alcoholin my teenage years.
(03:15):
But then once I left the houseand became of age here in the
States at 21 years old, youknow, I had my first drinks with
my brothers and that's reallythe curiosity began.
And I, kind of felt good when Idrank alcohol.
Like it gave me, you know, thatbuzz, I don't think that I would
even recognize it just kind oflike relaxed me, but it wasn't
(03:36):
anything I was too much morecurious about beyond that and.
That's really where it startedfor me.
And it just sort of increasedover time, right?
And so my curiosity was like,oh, I had a hard day at work.
I think maybe I should have aglass of wine.
You know, oh, my coworkers aregoing out for happy hour, I
should drink.
So that's how it kind of allbegan.
(03:58):
But it all was out of that lensof curiosity,
Justine Clark (04:01):
yeah,
Cari Wolters (04:01):
and it was a slow growth.
It was super slow and gradual.
Justine Clark (04:06):
resonate with that.
It's
Cari Wolters (04:08):
Totally
Justine Clark (04:08):
I don't know, as you were talking, it
Cari Wolters (04:10):
like, I know
Justine Clark (04:11):
being that teenager and
Cari Wolters (04:12):
for
Justine Clark (04:13):
It's almost
Cari Wolters (04:14):
finding
Justine Clark (04:15):
know, when everything's so tricky as a
teenager and you don't quiteknow who your friends are and
which
Cari Wolters (04:19):
alcohol, I know who your
Justine Clark (04:20):
and which girls are
Cari Wolters (04:21):
are and which boy likes you and which
Justine Clark (04:22):
one
Cari Wolters (04:23):
like, you go,
Justine Clark (04:24):
always
Cari Wolters (04:24):
got the lump thing.
Justine Clark (04:25):
oh my God, I
Cari Wolters (04:26):
He's gonna be my friend.
Oh my God.
I found it.
And how cool that.
Justine Clark (04:29):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (04:30):
almost like
Justine Clark (04:31):
buddy that you,
Cari Wolters (04:32):
alcohol becomes the
Justine Clark (04:33):
and you
Cari Wolters (04:33):
buddy that
Justine Clark (04:33):
you are, you
Cari Wolters (04:34):
go out with and you feel like you are, you know,
like your bulletproof.
Justine Clark (04:38):
with that in mind,
Cari Wolters (04:39):
What,
Justine Clark (04:39):
what was
Cari Wolters (04:40):
with that in mind, what was your
Justine Clark (04:42):
realizing that maybe alcohol
Cari Wolters (04:44):
realizing.
Justine Clark (04:45):
friend, actually she was a toxic friend.
when did you start to noticethat?
Yeah, so
Cari Wolters (04:51):
Yeah, so that was in 20 19, 20 20.
The pandemic really had nothingto do with it, honestly for me.
'cause I was still, I wasdrinking every night anyways.
And so that is when I realizedthat my best friend.
Alcohol at that time, was takingover everything.
(05:15):
It, I needed it to function.
I needed it for my anxiety.
I needed it to take care of me.
I needed it after my kids wentto bed.
I needed it in order to achievein my work.
I've been in the business worldfor a decade now and I was able
to build a couple brands.
Through my own voice andbranding and with another other
(05:37):
companies, and I was alwaysachieving to get to the, the top
and alcohol got the credit forthat.
I almost like gave alcohol thecredit like, ah, I can do this
because I'm drink, you know, I'mdrinking at night.
Take the edge off.
And so, it became pretty toxic,I would say.
That's a good, good word for it.
And then it started to, youknow.
Justine Clark (05:55):
affecting
Cari Wolters (05:56):
Really affecting my relationships with my husband
and my children.
My children maybe didn't evenrealize it, because I was pretty
high functioning.
But, I did have a definingmoment after a year and a half
of becoming curious.
So I did from October, 2020until 20 February of 2022.
(06:18):
So about a year and a half.
I.
I got curious again of whatwould it be like without my best
friend?
What would it be like without myalcohol buddy?
You know, what would it be likeif I went to my friend's house
without alcohol?
And I just started to become,you know, more mindful.
And in that journey, my childrenrealized I was drinking less.
Justine Clark (06:41):
Started
Cari Wolters (06:41):
And they started realizing, they said to me, mom,
you don't have your wine glassout anymore.
I was like, oh my goodness,you're right.
I said, that's a really goodobservation.
And I mean, we're talking,they're ten nine and like, you
know, five at the time.
And so they're noticing thatmom's wine glass isn't full of
(07:02):
wine anymore.
Or actually it was non-existent.
Right.
And so then, February, 2022comes around.
I have been on and off mindfullydrinking days, weeks, months
without it.
And then.
February, 2022 comes around andI, it's Super Bowl party and
here in the States, man, itshould be a holiday, honestly.
(07:24):
that's when we just like allwatch football and, drink.
Justine Clark (07:27):
had.
Cari Wolters (07:28):
And I had, I had wine with my girlfriend and my
son and I had, had wine in weeksand my son comes around the
corner and, you know, he justsaid to me, mom, I didn't think
you were doing that anymore.
Or, and I was like.
Justine Clark (07:43):
Drop.
Cari Wolters (07:44):
Like mouth drop, right?
Like for those that arelistening and my mouth just
dropped.
and I thought, wow, my daughterwas right there.
And it's like, what's mom gonnasay?
And you know, I just said, youknow what?
I, I'm gonna make this choicetonight.
I decided that this is okay, wecan make choices in life.
Like I made it very,
Justine Clark (07:59):
An adult
Cari Wolters (08:00):
as an adult we can make choices.
And they understood.
And there really wasn't anyquestion about it, but I knew in
that moment.
And then my girlfriend told mewe drank.
Justine Clark (08:09):
bottle
Cari Wolters (08:09):
couple bottles that night, which I hadn't done
in months, maybe even like ayear.
and I said, I remember thinking,I'm never gonna do this again.
And so I had a terriblehangover.
I got my home kids home safely,had a terrible hangover.
And, I said to myself, this ismy day.
This is when I'm, this is myalcohol freedom.
(08:31):
This is my journey.
I'm, it's gonna be my lifestyle,you know?
so yeah.
Yes.
And the most surprising thing.
Yeah, go ahead.
Barry Condon (08:39):
say that that's such
Cari Wolters (08:40):
I was gonna say that that's such a, a,
Barry Condon (08:41):
journey, that to,
Cari Wolters (08:42):
journey out that
Barry Condon (08:43):
sort of, you know, just through curiosity
Cari Wolters (08:46):
curiosity.
Barry Condon (08:47):
just
Cari Wolters (08:47):
Have have
Barry Condon (08:48):
yourself and
Cari Wolters (08:49):
it, the
Barry Condon (08:49):
and,
Cari Wolters (08:50):
breaks and not.
Barry Condon (08:52):
the way that we're, we're
Cari Wolters (08:53):
Done it the way that we we're
Barry Condon (08:54):
sort of programmed, or I,
Cari Wolters (08:56):
sort of programmed or
Barry Condon (08:56):
sort of
Cari Wolters (08:57):
the way that we sort of think we ought
Barry Condon (08:58):
you know, White knuckle
Cari Wolters (09:01):
to
Barry Condon (09:01):
and,
Cari Wolters (09:02):
knuckle it,
Barry Condon (09:02):
no.
And then fail and then
Cari Wolters (09:04):
fail.
Barry Condon (09:05):
just be curious and, and try and, out, you know.
Cari Wolters (09:09):
work out, you know,
Barry Condon (09:10):
is that it's doing
Cari Wolters (09:10):
what it is that it's doing.
Barry Condon (09:11):
you're trying to get from it, and are you
Cari Wolters (09:13):
Get from it and
Barry Condon (09:14):
kind of stuff is, is, is, is much more productive
and you, you start to sort oftake away the, the, the illusion
of, of of benefits that, that,are, that we, you know, give it
credit for.
Cari Wolters (09:24):
credit.
Barry Condon (09:25):
would, how would you, what would you say to
someone?
'cause
Cari Wolters (09:28):
What would you say to someone, because it's quite a
very scary moment when you
Barry Condon (09:31):
I need to do
Cari Wolters (09:31):
sort of something
Barry Condon (09:33):
and the traditional thing is, you know.
Take a break and, bury your headin the sand
Cari Wolters (09:39):
head of the sand.
Barry Condon (09:40):
and hope for the best kind of thing.
What would you say is a better
Cari Wolters (09:42):
What would you say is a better way to rephrase
things?
Barry Condon (09:45):
if you are, you know, thinking to yourself, you
know, I, I need to do something.
Justine Clark (09:51):
Yeah,
Cari Wolters (09:52):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (09:52):
would say.
Cari Wolters (09:53):
I would say start with pausing and getting
curious.
Justine Clark (09:58):
So
Cari Wolters (09:58):
So
Justine Clark (09:59):
up the,
Cari Wolters (10:00):
of white knuckling it and saying, I'm gonna do this
forever, or I'm gonna take abreak for
Justine Clark (10:05):
days.
Cari Wolters (10:05):
50 days.
'cause sometimes.
Already.
I think to myself, fear creepsinto people's minds.
Like you get a little fearful ofthat.
So let's just start withcuriosity.
You know, we're talking about atree and it has a base and it
has a bunch of roots, right?
And one of the roots andfoundations in my life is
curiosity.
It's, it's a, it's a root.
(10:26):
And in that curiosity, thingsare going to grow.
And then what is gonna stick andgrow and produce fruit and
what's gonna die?
Right.
So why don't we just start therewith curiosity and so just pause
Justine Clark (10:39):
that
Cari Wolters (10:39):
before you have that drink and say, how am I
feeling?
Why am I feeling, why?
Why am I feeling this way?
Okay.
Is alcohol gonna feed thisfeeling?
Like, is alcohol gonna feed it?
Okay.
And can I find another way to.
Feel, is there another way tooutside of alcohol that I can
(10:59):
find stress relief?
So for me it was anxiety, right?
I would feel anxiety, get reallycurious.
And so start, have, start withcuriosity, friends, everybody
that's listening, start thereand have it lead you and pause
and write it down in a journal.
You know, write it in your phoneor talk to yourself in a voice
memo.
That's what I tell my clients.
Tell you know, talk to yourself.
(11:20):
Pause and just get curious andfigure out how am I feeling?
How can I, will alcohol feedthis feeling and can I find
another way?
Justine Clark (11:30):
So
Cari Wolters (11:31):
And if not, okay, drink it.
You don't have the glass.
Justine Clark (11:34):
there that you
Cari Wolters (11:35):
Yeah.
Just thinking
Justine Clark (11:36):
your best friend earlier being toxic friend,
making you feel to, and,
Cari Wolters (11:41):
cream,
Justine Clark (11:41):
that that, I mean, that is actually not you,
that is
Cari Wolters (11:44):
that is actually not
Justine Clark (11:45):
is the
Cari Wolters (11:46):
that an outside source.
Justine Clark (11:47):
So I was gonna ask you what you'd
Cari Wolters (11:49):
That's right.
Justine Clark (11:50):
toxic friend with, and I can now see clearly
that you've, you've now gotthis, curious friend.
So you, you have a directreplacement.
Instead of having toxicity, youhave curiosity.
I.
Cari Wolters (12:02):
That's beautiful, Justine.
I love how you said that.
Yeah.
Great connection.
So.
Sure.
Talk to that curious friend.
Justine Clark (12:09):
you know,
Cari Wolters (12:10):
you know, talk to her.
Justine Clark (12:11):
is
Cari Wolters (12:12):
What is, what is she saying back to you that
she's gonna take away your pain?
Is she gonna take away youranxiety?
Yeah.
She wants you to believe that.
And is that true?
Justine Clark (12:21):
yeah.
Cari Wolters (12:21):
Is it is, is it gonna take away my anxiety if I
have this drink?
Is is it going to help me?
Will it make me a better personand help me have more fun?
Is it gonna make me a bettermom?
Wait a minute, that Curiositygirl, best friend over there is,
it, is, is liquid.
See how it, it just sort oftakes you into a state of like,
(12:44):
Curiosity that almost feel it isvery an illusion that we've
created and it's that cognitivedissonance.
I know it's a big word forlisteners, but we have two
voices going on in our head.
So for me, it's my voice andit's the curiosity voice.
Barry Condon (12:59):
And what, and were you able to use that curiosity
in.
the tough times.
You know, I, I imagine theremust have been moments where
Cari Wolters (13:06):
imagine must
Barry Condon (13:06):
and you had a drink and you weren't intending
to, or, you know, did you havethose sort of moments and you
could you curiosity and, and,
Cari Wolters (13:12):
curiosity.
Barry Condon (13:13):
it lighter than, than, than, than maybe some
people do and beat yourself upor, or, were you able to sort of
Justine Clark (13:19):
Analyze
Barry Condon (13:19):
analyze it more or.
Justine Clark (13:22):
Yeah.
Cari Wolters (13:22):
Or,
Justine Clark (13:22):
really
Cari Wolters (13:23):
I think what's really cool about curiosity is
you can allow yourself whateverchoice you would like,
Justine Clark (13:29):
I
Cari Wolters (13:29):
and so I'm gonna allow myself to have the drink
because I do believe in thismoment it's going to feed my
anxiety and help me feel lessstress.
Justine Clark (13:40):
see
Cari Wolters (13:41):
So let me just see what, what's that like?
And what happened for me, Barry,was when I was able to do that,
the next day, I would haveraging anxiety.
Like,
Justine Clark (13:50):
I just had
Cari Wolters (13:51):
okay, I just had two, three glasses of wine.
The next day my curiosity friendis still there going, so how do
you feel?
Did it help you?
Did it give you what it did?
I did I give you what youwanted?
You know, it's like you talk to,it's like, well, best friend.
Curiosity, Carrie, over there,you did not give me what I
wanted.
I feel terrible.
Justine Clark (14:11):
I hung
Cari Wolters (14:12):
am hung over.
I'm super anxious and I yelledat my kids today.
That was my thing.
I, my anxiety did not help mebecome a better mom.
And there was a question youguys had asked in your notes
about like, what was yourbiggest struggle and my biggest
struggle, in my curiosity phaseand before.
(14:34):
I stepped into alcohol freedomwas, I believed I was a bad mom
Justine Clark (14:40):
that I
Cari Wolters (14:40):
and that I wasn't a very good mom
Justine Clark (14:43):
I yelled at
Cari Wolters (14:43):
because I yelled at my kids, well, why was I
yelling at my kids?
I mean, I think it's prettyhuman of us.
I still have my moments.
Trust me, I raised my voice andyou know, we are still parents
and to this day.
Right.
I check myself, okay.
When I do raise my voice, isthis legit?
Carrie, it's curiosity again.
Is this legit?
Do my kids need this?
This right now?
(15:04):
Oh, yep.
Okay.
It's all right.
You know?
Whereas before it was just offthe handle.
I'm right away.
My anxiety is raging.
I am more irritable and I'mgonna, you know.
Raise my voice at them.
And that just honestly just dugat my heart and it created this
belief that I was a terriblemom.
And so the curiosity and eventhat moment that I had shared
(15:29):
where my son was like, mom, Ididn't think you were doing that
anymore.
That that spoke to my struggle.
He spoke to my struggle.
It's my beautiful son looking inmy face, right saying, saying
this to me.
And I'm thinking, I've been areally good mom for the past
year and a half.
I have been drinking lessalcohol.
My anxiety has decreased.
Like, Carrie, isn't that thelife that you want?
(15:51):
Because alcohol doesn't need tobe the front and center anymore.
And so, I just decided, youknow, in that moment I'm like,
you know, I'm, I'm gonna believethat I am a good mom and I'm
gonna start stepping intoalcohol freedom.
And that's, I.
My freedom finder story was Ifound myself, I found out that I
was a really good mom and I
Justine Clark (16:10):
a lot to offer.
Cari Wolters (16:11):
have a lot to offer the world and my
self-esteem increased too.
So there's so many benefits.
Now,
Justine Clark (16:16):
Are you still gonna struggle?
Cari Wolters (16:17):
you still gonna struggle with being a mom?
Yes.
Justine Clark (16:20):
are you still
Cari Wolters (16:21):
are you still gonna have bad days?
Yes.
Justine Clark (16:24):
are
Cari Wolters (16:24):
are you going to, you know, have low self-esteem
days, guys?
Yeah.
Because it's not the magic pill,honestly.
And Justine, we talked aboutthat.
once you step into alcoholfreedom, and it isn't a magic
pill, but what is magic is youhave tools and strategies that
when you are feeling anxious,you can go in and say, okay, why
(16:45):
am I feeling this way?
What's happening right now?
And so everything that led youinto alcohol freedom, you now
have the tools and strategies toeven cope with your own life.
Justine Clark (16:54):
love that so much, and I think that's,
Cari Wolters (16:56):
Love it.
Justine Clark (16:56):
where the gold is for me in this work.
It's not that we are kind of,
Cari Wolters (17:00):
we're
Justine Clark (17:01):
different to others.
How come they have managed tostop drinking?
Cari Wolters (17:04):
how.
Justine Clark (17:04):
just way too hard for me.
You know, people think thatthere's either the, the people
that are, are going to darkbasements and have to stop
drinking.
Or this crazy breed of peoplethat are making a choice not to
drink and, and how do they dothat?
And that's strange.
And they goody goodies or arethey boring?
you know, all those sort ofother labels that get used to
(17:26):
describe us.
And I am literally, I'm, I'm a
Cari Wolters (17:29):
Literally,
Justine Clark (17:30):
that has not changed.
I still love to go dance.
I still love all the stuff.
I just get to make differentchoices.
So tell us about some of thedifferent choices.
You've been making for yourselfnow that you are an alcohol
freedom finder carry.
Oh my goodness.
Cari Wolters (17:45):
oh my goodness.
That's a good question.
Justine Clark (17:49):
I
Cari Wolters (17:49):
well, I, I am a super fun person.
I thought that alcohol,
Justine Clark (17:56):
was making
Cari Wolters (17:56):
was what was making me fun.
Justine Clark (17:58):
I
Cari Wolters (17:58):
And now I realize, my authenticity is what's fun
and so completely embracing whoI am.
And I, I love my faith, whoGod's created me to be.
Like I'm fully her and present.
And when tough times come up, Iknow exactly.
How to lean into it and how tohave these tools.
(18:19):
But I, I love to go out forcoffee.
I love to go out with myfriends.
for dinner, I like to go toparties as well, super Bowl
parties.
my.
Justine Clark (18:30):
Bowling is a.
Cari Wolters (18:31):
foing is a thing here in the States.
It's a new thing.
I don't know if you have it byyou guys, but it's called Foing.
I went Foing with friends andI'd say, Hey, what are you guys
drinking?
And I get'em their alcohol likeit works for me because I am not
attached to it.
It brings me, it.
I'm fully detached from it.
So I'm able to be in a room withalcohol and say, Hey, what are
(18:52):
you guys drinking?
What do you wanna do?
Let's take a selfie together.
I post on social media the otherday with them.
it was great.
I'm doing all the things I woulddo with alcohol.
I just get to choose to do itwithout and live in my
authenticity.
Yeah.
Barry Condon (19:06):
I love that.
I love that.
It, it's, it's such a, a greatthing to realize, you know, when
Cari Wolters (19:10):
thing to realize.
Barry Condon (19:11):
good
Cari Wolters (19:12):
Out with good friends and having,
Barry Condon (19:14):
you realize, oh, I'm not drinking.
They're all
Cari Wolters (19:15):
well, I'm not
Barry Condon (19:16):
thinking,
Cari Wolters (19:16):
drinking never
Barry Condon (19:17):
Need to have that drink to be able to have the
good time.
And I
Cari Wolters (19:20):
to have
Barry Condon (19:21):
it
Cari Wolters (19:21):
time and I don't need,
Barry Condon (19:22):
you know, and you know, I wish that, I wish they
knew, I wish they
Cari Wolters (19:25):
I wish they knew, I wish they understood, you
know, I don't wanna lecturethem,
Barry Condon (19:28):
is
Cari Wolters (19:28):
but you know, it
Barry Condon (19:29):
you know, you know, if everybody knew
Cari Wolters (19:31):
knew
Barry Condon (19:32):
like, you
Cari Wolters (19:32):
what it was really like.
You know,
Barry Condon (19:34):
at you
Cari Wolters (19:34):
they're looking at you.
Barry Condon (19:35):
she, she must be on something because she's not,
she's having a great time andyou know, she's not drinking.
You know, and or, you know, and,and people sort of
Cari Wolters (19:42):
You know, and, and people sort of look at
Barry Condon (19:43):
for you and.
Cari Wolters (19:44):
Laurie for you.
Actually,
Barry Condon (19:45):
well, you need to feel sorry for me.
I'm, I'm
Cari Wolters (19:48):
sorry for me.
I'm, I'm really well done withit.
You know,
Barry Condon (19:50):
and, and,
Cari Wolters (19:50):
I'm,
Barry Condon (19:51):
surprising
Cari Wolters (19:51):
yeah, that was a really surprising thing for me.
What, what, what, what
Barry Condon (19:53):
you since,
Cari Wolters (19:54):
surprised you sooner
Barry Condon (19:55):
than that, perhaps the,
Cari Wolters (19:56):
than that, perhaps?
Barry Condon (19:57):
found, freedom.
Justine Clark (19:59):
it's been
Cari Wolters (20:00):
it's been surprising how, accepted.
I've been, it's been surprisingthat I, you know, I've been
accepted in my communities andmy friends.
And then what's been surprisingis
Justine Clark (20:14):
friends in
Cari Wolters (20:14):
are friends in my life that
Justine Clark (20:17):
I did,
Cari Wolters (20:18):
I did say goodbye to, and I think that's to be
noted.
when I was getting curious and Iwas sober curious, I went out
with a group of friends and Iwasn't having fun, alcohol free,
it wasn't bringing me joy.
And I'm like, I don't thinkthese are my people.
Has nothing to do with them.
It's everything to do with me.
Justine Clark (20:37):
for the,
Cari Wolters (20:37):
I was here for the booze.
I wasn't here for the friends.
Justine Clark (20:40):
it's been
Cari Wolters (20:40):
And so it's been surprising that how fluid that
is and how freeing that is in myalcohol and freedom finder
story.
It's like I found myself and Ialso found my people.
Yeah.
Justine Clark (20:52):
yeah, I, I I, I really, what you're saying there
it's like, a lot of the reasonthat why friend alcohol was
fear,
Cari Wolters (21:01):
Hole was
Justine Clark (21:02):
place.
Fear of not fitting in, fear ofnot being enough, fear of
Cari Wolters (21:07):
enough,
Justine Clark (21:07):
What did it bring?
It's kind of, we, we taggedalong with it.
Cari Wolters (21:11):
kind of we, we tad along with it
Justine Clark (21:13):
you know, free and feeling really good about
being free, it doesn't mean
Cari Wolters (21:18):
throughout there.
Justine Clark (21:18):
is full of
Cari Wolters (21:19):
Doesn't mean that life itself is
Justine Clark (21:21):
fear, fearful challenges.
Like,
Cari Wolters (21:24):
challenges.
Justine Clark (21:24):
how am I gonna make a this
Cari Wolters (21:25):
how, how am I gonna make it
Justine Clark (21:26):
gonna work?
How, how am I gonna make a
Cari Wolters (21:28):
go?
Justine Clark (21:29):
My
Cari Wolters (21:29):
am I.
Justine Clark (21:30):
with people that are, that are still drinking
and, and going home early.
'cause to go out, but Icertainly like to go home early.
Cari Wolters (21:37):
What I certainly like
Justine Clark (21:40):
I guess what I'm saying is just because we are
free doesn't mean life is somekind of walk
Cari Wolters (21:46):
doesn't mean
Justine Clark (21:46):
swinging our daisies.
Cari Wolters (21:48):
lot up
Justine Clark (21:48):
means that we are more capable and clear and
intentional with our work.
Would you say, what would yousay
Cari Wolters (21:55):
when say
Justine Clark (21:56):
around.
being free from
Cari Wolters (21:59):
being free.
Fear still comes.
It still exists, right?
Like we have fear.
That's what I heard you saying.
So I was processing that.
there's still fear, fear of canI run a successful business?
Fear of, Can I,
Justine Clark (22:14):
A
Cari Wolters (22:15):
you know, reach a six figure income coaching,
right?
There's lots of fear.
There's fear of my kids and whatthey're experiencing in this
world.
I mean, I think fear is allaround us, honestly.
Right?
And it's really learning torecognize it and say to myself,
what's, what's the thoughtbehind this?
(22:35):
Like, what am I afraid of?
Right?
And oh, I'm afraid that thiswon't.
Be able to support my family,you know?
Okay, where does that come from?
And instead of like looking atfear and saying, I can't deal
with you right now, come here,alcohol,
Justine Clark (22:52):
Come here.
Cari Wolters (22:53):
come here.
It's like, okay, fear, bring iton.
Justine Clark (22:56):
here.
Cari Wolters (22:56):
It's here.
Justine Clark (22:57):
allow
Cari Wolters (22:57):
I'm gonna allow this to come.
This is a hard moment.
I'm gonna sit with it and I'mgonna get curious with this fear
and think, okay, now I'm feelingthis way.
What's something to help me feela little less po, a little less
fear?
I.
It's like a, how we talk aboutin code, we're turning around
our thoughts.
so it's a process of almost likerecognizing the fear and knowing
(23:20):
that I'm still safe, I'm stillokay, nothing else has changed.
Everything is still here.
And being able to see also thepositive within the fear, well,
you're having this for a reasonbecause you love.
What you get to do, which iscoaching.
You want to help change otherpeople's lives.
You want to, have your childrenbe these successful, beautiful
citizens, in this world, and youwant them to have good
(23:42):
character.
So there's fear here for areason.
And so what do I need to do?
I need to loosen up my control.
You know?
And whereas before alcohol wouldjust, I would, I would feel fear
and I would numb it.
I'd be like, oh, I do not likehow that feels.
So I am just gonna, I'm gonnadrink this away and that deal
with it.
And we build those patterns inour life.
(24:02):
And the coolest thing about ouralcohol Freedom Finder story is
now that we found freedom, wenow found the freedom to think.
We now have the freedom tothink.
We have the freedom to feel.
We have the freedom to reframe.
We have the freedom to moveforward and and be okay and
(24:22):
still say, I'm safe and I'mokay, even though I'm feeling
uncomfortable.
Barry Condon (24:26):
That's really good.
I mean, for me it was, it wassimilarly.
It, it, it felt, once I awayfrom it and, and, and got some
space and realized, I realized,you know, the, the time and, and
the opportunity that was I wasgetting back kind of thing.
It
Cari Wolters (24:39):
Back thing
Barry Condon (24:40):
was robbing me of that chance to deal with the
things that were coming up and,you know, you immediately reach
for the drink
Cari Wolters (24:45):
you immediately reached,
Barry Condon (24:46):
them away rather than.
Okay.
I am anxious and I have had
Cari Wolters (24:49):
I'm anxious.
Barry Condon (24:50):
You know, why was that?
Cari Wolters (24:51):
So why was.
Barry Condon (24:52):
different about it?
Or do I drink something?
Cari Wolters (24:55):
Something,
Barry Condon (24:56):
about it for, for,
Cari Wolters (24:57):
forget about it
Barry Condon (24:57):
or two and
Cari Wolters (24:58):
for, for an hour or two.
Barry Condon (24:59):
with even higher levels of,
Cari Wolters (25:00):
Higher levels of,
Barry Condon (25:02):
And, and, yeah.
No, that's, that's, yeah.
That's really, really powerful.
we have a
Cari Wolters (25:07):
uh, we.
Barry Condon (25:07):
we ask, as the last question, you know, what
are the three words
Cari Wolters (25:10):
What are the three words that you would find?
Barry Condon (25:13):
finding of alcohol freedom?
You know, do you have threewords for us?
Justine Clark (25:17):
one
Cari Wolters (25:18):
I have one word.
Barry Condon (25:20):
Okay.
Justine Clark (25:20):
and
Cari Wolters (25:21):
and that's, authenticity.
Just living, I guess threewords, living in authenticity.
So for me, it's just been ableto live in my authentic self,
whether myself is afraid.
Justine Clark (25:35):
has
Cari Wolters (25:35):
myself has fear, whether myself has joy, whether
myself,
Justine Clark (25:40):
empowered.
Cari Wolters (25:40):
feels empowered, that I'm gonna show up
authentically and lead myself inthat.
And that's been the greatestblessing in my life.
I would say.
Justine Clark (25:50):
love that so much.
And, and I'm
Cari Wolters (25:52):
Love it so much.
Justine Clark (25:53):
people are
Cari Wolters (25:54):
I'm
Justine Clark (25:54):
you as a coach.
Cari Wolters (25:56):
you as a coach,
Justine Clark (25:57):
be
Cari Wolters (25:57):
you.
Justine Clark (25:57):
them find their
Cari Wolters (25:59):
Looking to help them
Justine Clark (25:59):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (26:00):
their own, alcohol.
Food.
yeah, so people can find me onsocial media platforms, of
course, which is, on Instagram.
Sober Curious Life on Facebookis my name, Kerry Walters, and
also my website, sober Curiouslife coaching.com.
you can
Justine Clark (26:18):
A call there
Cari Wolters (26:19):
book a call there and just we can have a chat.
Justine Clark (26:21):
where again, so obviously we are all over the
world.
As you said at the beginning,Barry in Amsterdam, I'm in New
Zealand and you are
Cari Wolters (26:31):
in Michigan?
Justine Clark (26:32):
so
Cari Wolters (26:33):
I'm in East yeah, Eastern time.
Justine Clark (26:36):
Do you
Barry Condon (26:36):
is there a certain type of person that you would
resonate most with or, just opento
Cari Wolters (26:42):
Yes.
So I, yeah, I love to work withhigh achieving women that are in
a professional setting.
They're, in corporate world, ortheir business owners and
entrepreneurs, and they havecontrol over their entire life
except for.
When it comes to alcohol,they're not able to control
alcohol for some reason, andthey find themselves unwinding
(27:04):
with wine every single night,and they're tired and they want
a different way.
And so I work with women likethat.
Justine Clark (27:10):
gonna be short of women like that
Cari Wolters (27:11):
Well, you're not gonna.
Justine Clark (27:12):
I know a lot of them myself, Kerry, thank you.
I just wanna thank you so muchfor being with us today.
I,
Cari Wolters (27:18):
Much
Justine Clark (27:18):
I always
Cari Wolters (27:19):
being with
Justine Clark (27:20):
time with
Cari Wolters (27:20):
us.
Justine Clark (27:21):
and, you know, you speak, you speak to, to my
heart and vulnerability andauthenticity.
that's what gets me high, youknow, it really does.
It makes me feel so good.
Cari Wolters (27:32):
It makes me feel good.
Same, same.
I'm gonna be, we're gonna have agreat evening tonight, aren't
we?
Right?
We'll go high on ourauthenticity together.
Justine Clark (27:42):
Yeah.
Cari Wolters (27:42):
Yeah.
Barry Condon (27:43):
Thanks so much,
Cari Wolters (27:44):
Thanks so much.
Barry Condon (27:44):
you're looking great.
Cari Wolters (27:45):
and you're looking great.
I
Barry Condon (27:46):
before
Cari Wolters (27:47):
seeing some of those four and a half photos
Barry Condon (27:48):
about
Cari Wolters (27:49):
when
Barry Condon (27:49):
younger than you
Cari Wolters (27:50):
you look about 20 years younger than you did in
some of those photos.
Barry Condon (27:52):
of very short hair and
Cari Wolters (27:53):
Very short hair.
Barry Condon (27:54):
you know, a much older
Cari Wolters (27:55):
You know how much
Barry Condon (27:55):
know, you're looking fantastic.
It's, it's really suiting
Cari Wolters (27:58):
Oh,
Justine Clark (27:58):
thank you Barry.
Cari Wolters (27:59):
oh.
Thank you Barry.
Justine, thank you for that.
I really appreciate that.
it's, it's time, it's time forpeople to find their freedom
finder story, you know.
Barry Condon (28:08):
Brilliant.
This is Alcohol Freedom Finders.
This week we talked to CarrieWalters from Michigan.
Carrie is now a seasoned coachhelping high achieving women,
but she takes us back to 2020when she was deep in the
struggle of drinking every nightand hangovers and anxiety every
day with a relationship,strained and self-doubt about
(00:20):
the kind of mother she was toher young kids.
She used curiosity to find herway out.
Let's jump in and find out how.
Justine Clark (00:28):
So, everybody.
I am genuinely
Cari Wolters (00:31):
Hey, everybody I
Justine Clark (00:32):
be more
Cari Wolters (00:33):
excited today could be more delighted and
excited to hear Harry.
Justine Clark (00:38):
curious life coach, and we can't wait to hear
her alcohol freedom finderstory.
I.
Barry Condon (00:46):
Hi,
Cari Wolters (00:46):
I'm so excited to share.
Hey guys,
Barry Condon (00:49):
Great to see you.
Great to
Cari Wolters (00:50):
great to see you.
Good to see you.
Barry Condon (00:51):
we've known each other
Cari Wolters (00:52):
we've known each other now for, what is it, eight
months?
Nearly two.
That's right.
Barry Condon (00:55):
and I know a little bit
Cari Wolters (00:56):
And I know a little bit about.
Barry Condon (00:58):
from, from sort of times when we've,
Cari Wolters (01:00):
Story times when we've had,
Barry Condon (01:01):
group,
Cari Wolters (01:02):
group,
Barry Condon (01:02):
our own stories.
Cari Wolters (01:03):
our own story.
yeah.
so why don't you take us back towhen you first sort of
Barry Condon (01:08):
something about.
Cari Wolters (01:10):
thought about
Barry Condon (01:10):
drinking
Cari Wolters (01:11):
the way I'm drinking,
Barry Condon (01:12):
you know, how that came
Cari Wolters (01:13):
how that, you know, how that came about.
Barry Condon (01:14):
how you, ultimately
Cari Wolters (01:15):
How you
Barry Condon (01:16):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (01:16):
found, alcohol freedom.
Justine Clark (01:17):
So
Cari Wolters (01:18):
Yeah.
So
Justine Clark (01:19):
me
Cari Wolters (01:19):
thank you for having me, Barry and Justine, my
friends from afar, as I'm in theUnited States and you guys are
across in your countrys, whichis beautiful.
just so grateful to be here withyou.
My story started
Justine Clark (01:31):
started
Cari Wolters (01:32):
I started getting curious, should we say, hence
sober curious life coach.
I like to lead myself incuriosity and it.
Has really been a themethroughout my entire life, when
it comes to alcohol.
And so in 2020 I decided Ineeded to get curious with
substance, the substance ofalcohol, right?
I was like, gotta get curious oflike, do I need this anymore?
(01:56):
Do, do, is this do?
Is this really bringing me joyand all the things?
Justine Clark (02:00):
I
Cari Wolters (02:01):
I just had to go into this state of questioning
myself of
Justine Clark (02:04):
is
Cari Wolters (02:04):
what is this substance and is it what I think
it is?
'cause I'm giving a lot of powerto it.
And it almost felt like I waslosing myself in, in October of
2020.
And so let's rewind back tocuriosity.
Curiosity started when I was alittle girl.
I was very curious.
Justine Clark (02:19):
my
Cari Wolters (02:20):
in my home and, and who I was.
And curious, curious about myfaith.
Curious about what it was to bea woman in this, world.
Curious about,
Justine Clark (02:29):
connect
Cari Wolters (02:29):
how to connect with God.
I was just, curiosity waseverywhere.
And one thing that wasn't in myhouse as a child
Justine Clark (02:37):
alcohol,
Cari Wolters (02:38):
alcohol,
Justine Clark (02:38):
was no
Cari Wolters (02:39):
so there was no curiosity there.
Justine Clark (02:41):
Alcohol.
Cari Wolters (02:42):
Alcohol wasn't existent.
I grew up in a religious home,and so it was kinda like, oh,
Justine Clark (02:46):
That's
Cari Wolters (02:46):
that's a non-issue.
However, what happened for meand my personality, because I'm
very,
Justine Clark (02:52):
but
Cari Wolters (02:52):
curious, but also like,
Justine Clark (02:54):
little
Cari Wolters (02:54):
a little rebellious, right?
Is, oh, there's no alcohol inthe house.
I, yeah, exactly.
I wonder why and when I maybeleave the house, what will that
be like, what, what role willalcohol play?
And I was very curious aboutthat.
So, I had, you know.
Minimal experiences with alcoholin my teenage years.
(03:15):
But then once I left the houseand became of age here in the
States at 21 years old, youknow, I had my first drinks with
my brothers and that's reallythe curiosity began.
And I, kind of felt good when Idrank alcohol.
Like it gave me, you know, thatbuzz, I don't think that I would
even recognize it just kind oflike relaxed me, but it wasn't
(03:36):
anything I was too much morecurious about beyond that and.
That's really where it startedfor me.
And it just sort of increasedover time, right?
And so my curiosity was like,oh, I had a hard day at work.
I think maybe I should have aglass of wine.
You know, oh, my coworkers aregoing out for happy hour, I
should drink.
So that's how it kind of allbegan.
(03:58):
But it all was out of that lensof curiosity,
Justine Clark (04:01):
yeah,
Cari Wolters (04:01):
and it was a slow growth.
It was super slow and gradual.
Justine Clark (04:06):
resonate with that.
It's
Cari Wolters (04:08):
Totally
Justine Clark (04:08):
I don't know, as you were talking, it
Cari Wolters (04:10):
like, I know
Justine Clark (04:11):
being that teenager and
Cari Wolters (04:12):
for
Justine Clark (04:13):
It's almost
Cari Wolters (04:14):
finding
Justine Clark (04:15):
know, when everything's so tricky as a
teenager and you don't quiteknow who your friends are and
which
Cari Wolters (04:19):
alcohol, I know who your
Justine Clark (04:20):
and which girls are
Cari Wolters (04:21):
are and which boy likes you and which
Justine Clark (04:22):
one
Cari Wolters (04:23):
like, you go,
Justine Clark (04:24):
always
Cari Wolters (04:24):
got the lump thing.
Justine Clark (04:25):
oh my God, I
Cari Wolters (04:26):
He's gonna be my friend.
Oh my God.
I found it.
And how cool that.
Justine Clark (04:29):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (04:30):
almost like
Justine Clark (04:31):
buddy that you,
Cari Wolters (04:32):
alcohol becomes the
Justine Clark (04:33):
and you
Cari Wolters (04:33):
buddy that
Justine Clark (04:33):
you are, you
Cari Wolters (04:34):
go out with and you feel like you are, you know,
like your bulletproof.
Justine Clark (04:38):
with that in mind,
Cari Wolters (04:39):
What,
Justine Clark (04:39):
what was
Cari Wolters (04:40):
with that in mind, what was your
Justine Clark (04:42):
realizing that maybe alcohol
Cari Wolters (04:44):
realizing.
Justine Clark (04:45):
friend, actually she was a toxic friend.
when did you start to noticethat?
Yeah, so
Cari Wolters (04:51):
Yeah, so that was in 20 19, 20 20.
The pandemic really had nothingto do with it, honestly for me.
'cause I was still, I wasdrinking every night anyways.
And so that is when I realizedthat my best friend.
Alcohol at that time, was takingover everything.
(05:15):
It, I needed it to function.
I needed it for my anxiety.
I needed it to take care of me.
I needed it after my kids wentto bed.
I needed it in order to achievein my work.
I've been in the business worldfor a decade now and I was able
to build a couple brands.
Through my own voice andbranding and with another other
(05:37):
companies, and I was alwaysachieving to get to the, the top
and alcohol got the credit forthat.
I almost like gave alcohol thecredit like, ah, I can do this
because I'm drink, you know, I'mdrinking at night.
Take the edge off.
And so, it became pretty toxic,I would say.
That's a good, good word for it.
And then it started to, youknow.
Justine Clark (05:55):
affecting
Cari Wolters (05:56):
Really affecting my relationships with my husband
and my children.
My children maybe didn't evenrealize it, because I was pretty
high functioning.
But, I did have a definingmoment after a year and a half
of becoming curious.
So I did from October, 2020until 20 February of 2022.
(06:18):
So about a year and a half.
I.
I got curious again of whatwould it be like without my best
friend?
What would it be like without myalcohol buddy?
You know, what would it be likeif I went to my friend's house
without alcohol?
And I just started to become,you know, more mindful.
And in that journey, my childrenrealized I was drinking less.
Justine Clark (06:41):
Started
Cari Wolters (06:41):
And they started realizing, they said to me, mom,
you don't have your wine glassout anymore.
I was like, oh my goodness,you're right.
I said, that's a really goodobservation.
And I mean, we're talking,they're ten nine and like, you
know, five at the time.
And so they're noticing thatmom's wine glass isn't full of
(07:02):
wine anymore.
Or actually it was non-existent.
Right.
And so then, February, 2022comes around.
I have been on and off mindfullydrinking days, weeks, months
without it.
And then.
February, 2022 comes around andI, it's Super Bowl party and
here in the States, man, itshould be a holiday, honestly.
(07:24):
that's when we just like allwatch football and, drink.
Justine Clark (07:27):
had.
Cari Wolters (07:28):
And I had, I had wine with my girlfriend and my
son and I had, had wine in weeksand my son comes around the
corner and, you know, he justsaid to me, mom, I didn't think
you were doing that anymore.
Or, and I was like.
Justine Clark (07:43):
Drop.
Cari Wolters (07:44):
Like mouth drop, right?
Like for those that arelistening and my mouth just
dropped.
and I thought, wow, my daughterwas right there.
And it's like, what's mom gonnasay?
And you know, I just said, youknow what?
I, I'm gonna make this choicetonight.
I decided that this is okay, wecan make choices in life.
Like I made it very,
Justine Clark (07:59):
An adult
Cari Wolters (08:00):
as an adult we can make choices.
And they understood.
And there really wasn't anyquestion about it, but I knew in
that moment.
And then my girlfriend told mewe drank.
Justine Clark (08:09):
bottle
Cari Wolters (08:09):
couple bottles that night, which I hadn't done
in months, maybe even like ayear.
and I said, I remember thinking,I'm never gonna do this again.
And so I had a terriblehangover.
I got my home kids home safely,had a terrible hangover.
And, I said to myself, this ismy day.
This is when I'm, this is myalcohol freedom.
(08:31):
This is my journey.
I'm, it's gonna be my lifestyle,you know?
so yeah.
Yes.
And the most surprising thing.
Yeah, go ahead.
Barry Condon (08:39):
say that that's such
Cari Wolters (08:40):
I was gonna say that that's such a, a,
Barry Condon (08:41):
journey, that to,
Cari Wolters (08:42):
journey out that
Barry Condon (08:43):
sort of, you know, just through curiosity
Cari Wolters (08:46):
curiosity.
Barry Condon (08:47):
just
Cari Wolters (08:47):
Have have
Barry Condon (08:48):
yourself and
Cari Wolters (08:49):
it, the
Barry Condon (08:49):
and,
Cari Wolters (08:50):
breaks and not.
Barry Condon (08:52):
the way that we're, we're
Cari Wolters (08:53):
Done it the way that we we're
Barry Condon (08:54):
sort of programmed, or I,
Cari Wolters (08:56):
sort of programmed or
Barry Condon (08:56):
sort of
Cari Wolters (08:57):
the way that we sort of think we ought
Barry Condon (08:58):
you know, White knuckle
Cari Wolters (09:01):
to
Barry Condon (09:01):
and,
Cari Wolters (09:02):
knuckle it,
Barry Condon (09:02):
no.
And then fail and then
Cari Wolters (09:04):
fail.
Barry Condon (09:05):
just be curious and, and try and, out, you know.
Cari Wolters (09:09):
work out, you know,
Barry Condon (09:10):
is that it's doing
Cari Wolters (09:10):
what it is that it's doing.
Barry Condon (09:11):
you're trying to get from it, and are you
Cari Wolters (09:13):
Get from it and
Barry Condon (09:14):
kind of stuff is, is, is, is much more productive
and you, you start to sort oftake away the, the, the illusion
of, of of benefits that, that,are, that we, you know, give it
credit for.
Cari Wolters (09:24):
credit.
Barry Condon (09:25):
would, how would you, what would you say to
someone?
'cause
Cari Wolters (09:28):
What would you say to someone, because it's quite a
very scary moment when you
Barry Condon (09:31):
I need to do
Cari Wolters (09:31):
sort of something
Barry Condon (09:33):
and the traditional thing is, you know.
Take a break and, bury your headin the sand
Cari Wolters (09:39):
head of the sand.
Barry Condon (09:40):
and hope for the best kind of thing.
What would you say is a better
Cari Wolters (09:42):
What would you say is a better way to rephrase
things?
Barry Condon (09:45):
if you are, you know, thinking to yourself, you
know, I, I need to do something.
Justine Clark (09:51):
Yeah,
Cari Wolters (09:52):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (09:52):
would say.
Cari Wolters (09:53):
I would say start with pausing and getting
curious.
Justine Clark (09:58):
So
Cari Wolters (09:58):
So
Justine Clark (09:59):
up the,
Cari Wolters (10:00):
of white knuckling it and saying, I'm gonna do this
forever, or I'm gonna take abreak for
Justine Clark (10:05):
days.
Cari Wolters (10:05):
50 days.
'cause sometimes.
Already.
I think to myself, fear creepsinto people's minds.
Like you get a little fearful ofthat.
So let's just start withcuriosity.
You know, we're talking about atree and it has a base and it
has a bunch of roots, right?
And one of the roots andfoundations in my life is
curiosity.
It's, it's a, it's a root.
(10:26):
And in that curiosity, thingsare going to grow.
And then what is gonna stick andgrow and produce fruit and
what's gonna die?
Right.
So why don't we just start therewith curiosity and so just pause
Justine Clark (10:39):
that
Cari Wolters (10:39):
before you have that drink and say, how am I
feeling?
Why am I feeling, why?
Why am I feeling this way?
Okay.
Is alcohol gonna feed thisfeeling?
Like, is alcohol gonna feed it?
Okay.
And can I find another way to.
Feel, is there another way tooutside of alcohol that I can
(10:59):
find stress relief?
So for me it was anxiety, right?
I would feel anxiety, get reallycurious.
And so start, have, start withcuriosity, friends, everybody
that's listening, start thereand have it lead you and pause
and write it down in a journal.
You know, write it in your phoneor talk to yourself in a voice
memo.
That's what I tell my clients.
Tell you know, talk to yourself.
(11:20):
Pause and just get curious andfigure out how am I feeling?
How can I, will alcohol feedthis feeling and can I find
another way?
Justine Clark (11:30):
So
Cari Wolters (11:31):
And if not, okay, drink it.
You don't have the glass.
Justine Clark (11:34):
there that you
Cari Wolters (11:35):
Yeah.
Just thinking
Justine Clark (11:36):
your best friend earlier being toxic friend,
making you feel to, and,
Cari Wolters (11:41):
cream,
Justine Clark (11:41):
that that, I mean, that is actually not you,
that is
Cari Wolters (11:44):
that is actually not
Justine Clark (11:45):
is the
Cari Wolters (11:46):
that an outside source.
Justine Clark (11:47):
So I was gonna ask you what you'd
Cari Wolters (11:49):
That's right.
Justine Clark (11:50):
toxic friend with, and I can now see clearly
that you've, you've now gotthis, curious friend.
So you, you have a directreplacement.
Instead of having toxicity, youhave curiosity.
I.
Cari Wolters (12:02):
That's beautiful, Justine.
I love how you said that.
Yeah.
Great connection.
So.
Sure.
Talk to that curious friend.
Justine Clark (12:09):
you know,
Cari Wolters (12:10):
you know, talk to her.
Justine Clark (12:11):
is
Cari Wolters (12:12):
What is, what is she saying back to you that
she's gonna take away your pain?
Is she gonna take away youranxiety?
Yeah.
She wants you to believe that.
And is that true?
Justine Clark (12:21):
yeah.
Cari Wolters (12:21):
Is it is, is it gonna take away my anxiety if I
have this drink?
Is is it going to help me?
Will it make me a better personand help me have more fun?
Is it gonna make me a bettermom?
Wait a minute, that Curiositygirl, best friend over there is,
it, is, is liquid.
See how it, it just sort oftakes you into a state of like,
(12:44):
Curiosity that almost feel it isvery an illusion that we've
created and it's that cognitivedissonance.
I know it's a big word forlisteners, but we have two
voices going on in our head.
So for me, it's my voice andit's the curiosity voice.
Barry Condon (12:59):
And what, and were you able to use that curiosity
in.
the tough times.
You know, I, I imagine theremust have been moments where
Cari Wolters (13:06):
imagine must
Barry Condon (13:06):
and you had a drink and you weren't intending
to, or, you know, did you havethose sort of moments and you
could you curiosity and, and,
Cari Wolters (13:12):
curiosity.
Barry Condon (13:13):
it lighter than, than, than, than maybe some
people do and beat yourself upor, or, were you able to sort of
Justine Clark (13:19):
Analyze
Barry Condon (13:19):
analyze it more or.
Justine Clark (13:22):
Yeah.
Cari Wolters (13:22):
Or,
Justine Clark (13:22):
really
Cari Wolters (13:23):
I think what's really cool about curiosity is
you can allow yourself whateverchoice you would like,
Justine Clark (13:29):
I
Cari Wolters (13:29):
and so I'm gonna allow myself to have the drink
because I do believe in thismoment it's going to feed my
anxiety and help me feel lessstress.
Justine Clark (13:40):
see
Cari Wolters (13:41):
So let me just see what, what's that like?
And what happened for me, Barry,was when I was able to do that,
the next day, I would haveraging anxiety.
Like,
Justine Clark (13:50):
I just had
Cari Wolters (13:51):
okay, I just had two, three glasses of wine.
The next day my curiosity friendis still there going, so how do
you feel?
Did it help you?
Did it give you what it did?
I did I give you what youwanted?
You know, it's like you talk to,it's like, well, best friend.
Curiosity, Carrie, over there,you did not give me what I
wanted.
I feel terrible.
Justine Clark (14:11):
I hung
Cari Wolters (14:12):
am hung over.
I'm super anxious and I yelledat my kids today.
That was my thing.
I, my anxiety did not help mebecome a better mom.
And there was a question youguys had asked in your notes
about like, what was yourbiggest struggle and my biggest
struggle, in my curiosity phaseand before.
(14:34):
I stepped into alcohol freedomwas, I believed I was a bad mom
Justine Clark (14:40):
that I
Cari Wolters (14:40):
and that I wasn't a very good mom
Justine Clark (14:43):
I yelled at
Cari Wolters (14:43):
because I yelled at my kids, well, why was I
yelling at my kids?
I mean, I think it's prettyhuman of us.
I still have my moments.
Trust me, I raised my voice andyou know, we are still parents
and to this day.
Right.
I check myself, okay.
When I do raise my voice, isthis legit?
Carrie, it's curiosity again.
Is this legit?
Do my kids need this?
This right now?
(15:04):
Oh, yep.
Okay.
It's all right.
You know?
Whereas before it was just offthe handle.
I'm right away.
My anxiety is raging.
I am more irritable and I'mgonna, you know.
Raise my voice at them.
And that just honestly just dugat my heart and it created this
belief that I was a terriblemom.
And so the curiosity and eventhat moment that I had shared
(15:29):
where my son was like, mom, Ididn't think you were doing that
anymore.
That that spoke to my struggle.
He spoke to my struggle.
It's my beautiful son looking inmy face, right saying, saying
this to me.
And I'm thinking, I've been areally good mom for the past
year and a half.
I have been drinking lessalcohol.
My anxiety has decreased.
Like, Carrie, isn't that thelife that you want?
(15:51):
Because alcohol doesn't need tobe the front and center anymore.
And so, I just decided, youknow, in that moment I'm like,
you know, I'm, I'm gonna believethat I am a good mom and I'm
gonna start stepping intoalcohol freedom.
And that's, I.
My freedom finder story was Ifound myself, I found out that I
was a really good mom and I
Justine Clark (16:10):
a lot to offer.
Cari Wolters (16:11):
have a lot to offer the world and my
self-esteem increased too.
So there's so many benefits.
Now,
Justine Clark (16:16):
Are you still gonna struggle?
Cari Wolters (16:17):
you still gonna struggle with being a mom?
Yes.
Justine Clark (16:20):
are you still
Cari Wolters (16:21):
are you still gonna have bad days?
Yes.
Justine Clark (16:24):
are
Cari Wolters (16:24):
are you going to, you know, have low self-esteem
days, guys?
Yeah.
Because it's not the magic pill,honestly.
And Justine, we talked aboutthat.
once you step into alcoholfreedom, and it isn't a magic
pill, but what is magic is youhave tools and strategies that
when you are feeling anxious,you can go in and say, okay, why
(16:45):
am I feeling this way?
What's happening right now?
And so everything that led youinto alcohol freedom, you now
have the tools and strategies toeven cope with your own life.
Justine Clark (16:54):
love that so much, and I think that's,
Cari Wolters (16:56):
Love it.
Justine Clark (16:56):
where the gold is for me in this work.
It's not that we are kind of,
Cari Wolters (17:00):
we're
Justine Clark (17:01):
different to others.
How come they have managed tostop drinking?
Cari Wolters (17:04):
how.
Justine Clark (17:04):
just way too hard for me.
You know, people think thatthere's either the, the people
that are, are going to darkbasements and have to stop
drinking.
Or this crazy breed of peoplethat are making a choice not to
drink and, and how do they dothat?
And that's strange.
And they goody goodies or arethey boring?
you know, all those sort ofother labels that get used to
(17:26):
describe us.
And I am literally, I'm, I'm a
Cari Wolters (17:29):
Literally,
Justine Clark (17:30):
that has not changed.
I still love to go dance.
I still love all the stuff.
I just get to make differentchoices.
So tell us about some of thedifferent choices.
You've been making for yourselfnow that you are an alcohol
freedom finder carry.
Oh my goodness.
Cari Wolters (17:45):
oh my goodness.
That's a good question.
Justine Clark (17:49):
I
Cari Wolters (17:49):
well, I, I am a super fun person.
I thought that alcohol,
Justine Clark (17:56):
was making
Cari Wolters (17:56):
was what was making me fun.
Justine Clark (17:58):
I
Cari Wolters (17:58):
And now I realize, my authenticity is what's fun
and so completely embracing whoI am.
And I, I love my faith, whoGod's created me to be.
Like I'm fully her and present.
And when tough times come up, Iknow exactly.
How to lean into it and how tohave these tools.
(18:19):
But I, I love to go out forcoffee.
I love to go out with myfriends.
for dinner, I like to go toparties as well, super Bowl
parties.
my.
Justine Clark (18:30):
Bowling is a.
Cari Wolters (18:31):
foing is a thing here in the States.
It's a new thing.
I don't know if you have it byyou guys, but it's called Foing.
I went Foing with friends andI'd say, Hey, what are you guys
drinking?
And I get'em their alcohol likeit works for me because I am not
attached to it.
It brings me, it.
I'm fully detached from it.
So I'm able to be in a room withalcohol and say, Hey, what are
(18:52):
you guys drinking?
What do you wanna do?
Let's take a selfie together.
I post on social media the otherday with them.
it was great.
I'm doing all the things I woulddo with alcohol.
I just get to choose to do itwithout and live in my
authenticity.
Yeah.
Barry Condon (19:06):
I love that.
I love that.
It, it's, it's such a, a greatthing to realize, you know, when
Cari Wolters (19:10):
thing to realize.
Barry Condon (19:11):
good
Cari Wolters (19:12):
Out with good friends and having,
Barry Condon (19:14):
you realize, oh, I'm not drinking.
They're all
Cari Wolters (19:15):
well, I'm not
Barry Condon (19:16):
thinking,
Cari Wolters (19:16):
drinking never
Barry Condon (19:17):
Need to have that drink to be able to have the
good time.
And I
Cari Wolters (19:20):
to have
Barry Condon (19:21):
it
Cari Wolters (19:21):
time and I don't need,
Barry Condon (19:22):
you know, and you know, I wish that, I wish they
knew, I wish they
Cari Wolters (19:25):
I wish they knew, I wish they understood, you
know, I don't wanna lecturethem,
Barry Condon (19:28):
is
Cari Wolters (19:28):
but you know, it
Barry Condon (19:29):
you know, you know, if everybody knew
Cari Wolters (19:31):
knew
Barry Condon (19:32):
like, you
Cari Wolters (19:32):
what it was really like.
You know,
Barry Condon (19:34):
at you
Cari Wolters (19:34):
they're looking at you.
Barry Condon (19:35):
she, she must be on something because she's not,
she's having a great time andyou know, she's not drinking.
You know, and or, you know, and,and people sort of
Cari Wolters (19:42):
You know, and, and people sort of look at
Barry Condon (19:43):
for you and.
Cari Wolters (19:44):
Laurie for you.
Actually,
Barry Condon (19:45):
well, you need to feel sorry for me.
I'm, I'm
Cari Wolters (19:48):
sorry for me.
I'm, I'm really well done withit.
You know,
Barry Condon (19:50):
and, and,
Cari Wolters (19:50):
I'm,
Barry Condon (19:51):
surprising
Cari Wolters (19:51):
yeah, that was a really surprising thing for me.
What, what, what, what
Barry Condon (19:53):
you since,
Cari Wolters (19:54):
surprised you sooner
Barry Condon (19:55):
than that, perhaps the,
Cari Wolters (19:56):
than that, perhaps?
Barry Condon (19:57):
found, freedom.
Justine Clark (19:59):
it's been
Cari Wolters (20:00):
it's been surprising how, accepted.
I've been, it's been surprisingthat I, you know, I've been
accepted in my communities andmy friends.
And then what's been surprisingis
Justine Clark (20:14):
friends in
Cari Wolters (20:14):
are friends in my life that
Justine Clark (20:17):
I did,
Cari Wolters (20:18):
I did say goodbye to, and I think that's to be
noted.
when I was getting curious and Iwas sober curious, I went out
with a group of friends and Iwasn't having fun, alcohol free,
it wasn't bringing me joy.
And I'm like, I don't thinkthese are my people.
Has nothing to do with them.
It's everything to do with me.
Justine Clark (20:37):
for the,
Cari Wolters (20:37):
I was here for the booze.
I wasn't here for the friends.
Justine Clark (20:40):
it's been
Cari Wolters (20:40):
And so it's been surprising that how fluid that
is and how freeing that is in myalcohol and freedom finder
story.
It's like I found myself and Ialso found my people.
Yeah.
Justine Clark (20:52):
yeah, I, I I, I really, what you're saying there
it's like, a lot of the reasonthat why friend alcohol was
fear,
Cari Wolters (21:01):
Hole was
Justine Clark (21:02):
place.
Fear of not fitting in, fear ofnot being enough, fear of
Cari Wolters (21:07):
enough,
Justine Clark (21:07):
What did it bring?
It's kind of, we, we taggedalong with it.
Cari Wolters (21:11):
kind of we, we tad along with it
Justine Clark (21:13):
you know, free and feeling really good about
being free, it doesn't mean
Cari Wolters (21:18):
throughout there.
Justine Clark (21:18):
is full of
Cari Wolters (21:19):
Doesn't mean that life itself is
Justine Clark (21:21):
fear, fearful challenges.
Like,
Cari Wolters (21:24):
challenges.
Justine Clark (21:24):
how am I gonna make a this
Cari Wolters (21:25):
how, how am I gonna make it
Justine Clark (21:26):
gonna work?
How, how am I gonna make a
Cari Wolters (21:28):
go?
Justine Clark (21:29):
My
Cari Wolters (21:29):
am I.
Justine Clark (21:30):
with people that are, that are still drinking
and, and going home early.
'cause to go out, but Icertainly like to go home early.
Cari Wolters (21:37):
What I certainly like
Justine Clark (21:40):
I guess what I'm saying is just because we are
free doesn't mean life is somekind of walk
Cari Wolters (21:46):
doesn't mean
Justine Clark (21:46):
swinging our daisies.
Cari Wolters (21:48):
lot up
Justine Clark (21:48):
means that we are more capable and clear and
intentional with our work.
Would you say, what would yousay
Cari Wolters (21:55):
when say
Justine Clark (21:56):
around.
being free from
Cari Wolters (21:59):
being free.
Fear still comes.
It still exists, right?
Like we have fear.
That's what I heard you saying.
So I was processing that.
there's still fear, fear of canI run a successful business?
Fear of, Can I,
Justine Clark (22:14):
A
Cari Wolters (22:15):
you know, reach a six figure income coaching,
right?
There's lots of fear.
There's fear of my kids and whatthey're experiencing in this
world.
I mean, I think fear is allaround us, honestly.
Right?
And it's really learning torecognize it and say to myself,
what's, what's the thoughtbehind this?
(22:35):
Like, what am I afraid of?
Right?
And oh, I'm afraid that thiswon't.
Be able to support my family,you know?
Okay, where does that come from?
And instead of like looking atfear and saying, I can't deal
with you right now, come here,alcohol,
Justine Clark (22:52):
Come here.
Cari Wolters (22:53):
come here.
It's like, okay, fear, bring iton.
Justine Clark (22:56):
here.
Cari Wolters (22:56):
It's here.
Justine Clark (22:57):
allow
Cari Wolters (22:57):
I'm gonna allow this to come.
This is a hard moment.
I'm gonna sit with it and I'mgonna get curious with this fear
and think, okay, now I'm feelingthis way.
What's something to help me feela little less po, a little less
fear?
I.
It's like a, how we talk aboutin code, we're turning around
our thoughts.
so it's a process of almost likerecognizing the fear and knowing
(23:20):
that I'm still safe, I'm stillokay, nothing else has changed.
Everything is still here.
And being able to see also thepositive within the fear, well,
you're having this for a reasonbecause you love.
What you get to do, which iscoaching.
You want to help change otherpeople's lives.
You want to, have your childrenbe these successful, beautiful
citizens, in this world, and youwant them to have good
(23:42):
character.
So there's fear here for areason.
And so what do I need to do?
I need to loosen up my control.
You know?
And whereas before alcohol wouldjust, I would, I would feel fear
and I would numb it.
I'd be like, oh, I do not likehow that feels.
So I am just gonna, I'm gonnadrink this away and that deal
with it.
And we build those patterns inour life.
(24:02):
And the coolest thing about ouralcohol Freedom Finder story is
now that we found freedom, wenow found the freedom to think.
We now have the freedom tothink.
We have the freedom to feel.
We have the freedom to reframe.
We have the freedom to moveforward and and be okay and
(24:22):
still say, I'm safe and I'mokay, even though I'm feeling
uncomfortable.
Barry Condon (24:26):
That's really good.
I mean, for me it was, it wassimilarly.
It, it, it felt, once I awayfrom it and, and, and got some
space and realized, I realized,you know, the, the time and, and
the opportunity that was I wasgetting back kind of thing.
It
Cari Wolters (24:39):
Back thing
Barry Condon (24:40):
was robbing me of that chance to deal with the
things that were coming up and,you know, you immediately reach
for the drink
Cari Wolters (24:45):
you immediately reached,
Barry Condon (24:46):
them away rather than.
Okay.
I am anxious and I have had
Cari Wolters (24:49):
I'm anxious.
Barry Condon (24:50):
You know, why was that?
Cari Wolters (24:51):
So why was.
Barry Condon (24:52):
different about it?
Or do I drink something?
Cari Wolters (24:55):
Something,
Barry Condon (24:56):
about it for, for,
Cari Wolters (24:57):
forget about it
Barry Condon (24:57):
or two and
Cari Wolters (24:58):
for, for an hour or two.
Barry Condon (24:59):
with even higher levels of,
Cari Wolters (25:00):
Higher levels of,
Barry Condon (25:02):
And, and, yeah.
No, that's, that's, yeah.
That's really, really powerful.
we have a
Cari Wolters (25:07):
uh, we.
Barry Condon (25:07):
we ask, as the last question, you know, what
are the three words
Cari Wolters (25:10):
What are the three words that you would find?
Barry Condon (25:13):
finding of alcohol freedom?
You know, do you have threewords for us?
Justine Clark (25:17):
one
Cari Wolters (25:18):
I have one word.
Barry Condon (25:20):
Okay.
Justine Clark (25:20):
and
Cari Wolters (25:21):
and that's, authenticity.
Just living, I guess threewords, living in authenticity.
So for me, it's just been ableto live in my authentic self,
whether myself is afraid.
Justine Clark (25:35):
has
Cari Wolters (25:35):
myself has fear, whether myself has joy, whether
myself,
Justine Clark (25:40):
empowered.
Cari Wolters (25:40):
feels empowered, that I'm gonna show up
authentically and lead myself inthat.
And that's been the greatestblessing in my life.
I would say.
Justine Clark (25:50):
love that so much.
And, and I'm
Cari Wolters (25:52):
Love it so much.
Justine Clark (25:53):
people are
Cari Wolters (25:54):
I'm
Justine Clark (25:54):
you as a coach.
Cari Wolters (25:56):
you as a coach,
Justine Clark (25:57):
be
Cari Wolters (25:57):
you.
Justine Clark (25:57):
them find their
Cari Wolters (25:59):
Looking to help them
Justine Clark (25:59):
alcohol
Cari Wolters (26:00):
their own, alcohol.
Food.
yeah, so people can find me onsocial media platforms, of
course, which is, on Instagram.
Sober Curious Life on Facebookis my name, Kerry Walters, and
also my website, sober Curiouslife coaching.com.
you can
Justine Clark (26:18):
A call there
Cari Wolters (26:19):
book a call there and just we can have a chat.
Justine Clark (26:21):
where again, so obviously we are all over the
world.
As you said at the beginning,Barry in Amsterdam, I'm in New
Zealand and you are
Cari Wolters (26:31):
in Michigan?
Justine Clark (26:32):
so
Cari Wolters (26:33):
I'm in East yeah, Eastern time.
Justine Clark (26:36):
Do you
Barry Condon (26:36):
is there a certain type of person that you would
resonate most with or, just opento
Cari Wolters (26:42):
Yes.
So I, yeah, I love to work withhigh achieving women that are in
a professional setting.
They're, in corporate world, ortheir business owners and
entrepreneurs, and they havecontrol over their entire life
except for.
When it comes to alcohol,they're not able to control
alcohol for some reason, andthey find themselves unwinding
(27:04):
with wine every single night,and they're tired and they want
a different way.
And so I work with women likethat.
Justine Clark (27:10):
gonna be short of women like that
Cari Wolters (27:11):
Well, you're not gonna.
Justine Clark (27:12):
I know a lot of them myself, Kerry, thank you.
I just wanna thank you so muchfor being with us today.
I,
Cari Wolters (27:18):
Much
Justine Clark (27:18):
I always
Cari Wolters (27:19):
being with
Justine Clark (27:20):
time with
Cari Wolters (27:20):
us.
Justine Clark (27:21):
and, you know, you speak, you speak to, to my
heart and vulnerability andauthenticity.
that's what gets me high, youknow, it really does.
It makes me feel so good.
Cari Wolters (27:32):
It makes me feel good.
Same, same.
I'm gonna be, we're gonna have agreat evening tonight, aren't
we?
Right?
We'll go high on ourauthenticity together.
Justine Clark (27:42):
Yeah.
Cari Wolters (27:42):
Yeah.
Barry Condon (27:43):
Thanks so much,
Cari Wolters (27:44):
Thanks so much.
Barry Condon (27:44):
you're looking great.
Cari Wolters (27:45):
and you're looking great.
I
Barry Condon (27:46):
before
Cari Wolters (27:47):
seeing some of those four and a half photos
Barry Condon (27:48):
about
Cari Wolters (27:49):
when
Barry Condon (27:49):
younger than you
Cari Wolters (27:50):
you look about 20 years younger than you did in
some of those photos.
Barry Condon (27:52):
of very short hair and
Cari Wolters (27:53):
Very short hair.
Barry Condon (27:54):
you know, a much older
Cari Wolters (27:55):
You know how much
Barry Condon (27:55):
know, you're looking fantastic.
It's, it's really suiting
Cari Wolters (27:58):
Oh,
Justine Clark (27:58):
thank you Barry.
Cari Wolters (27:59):
oh.
Thank you Barry.
Justine, thank you for that.
I really appreciate that.
it's, it's time, it's time forpeople to find their freedom
finder story, you know.
Barry Condon (28:08):
Brilliant.
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