April 11, 2025 • 30 mins
This week we talk to Caroline Sherlock a Nutritional Therapist, a Functional Medicine Practitioner, and a lecturer on genetics and nutrigenomics So Caroline ( as Liam Neeson once said) has very particular set of skills acquired over a long career and it was actually this that made her own drinking feel progressively out of allignment with who she was professionally as well as who she wanted to be as a mother. Her particular set of skills did initially make her an expert in mitigating the effects of alcohol on the body - she used all manner of bio-hacks to avoid hangovers but ultimately she realised this same deep knowledge could also be instrumental helping her find alcohol freedom. and talk about becoming a fellow alcohol freedom finder, she’s even started her own coaching business called alcohol freedom coaching!
Caroline Sherlock
hello@alcoholfreedomcoaching.com
Our 30-day group programme:
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/aff-group
The podcast home page
https://podcast.alcoholfreedomfinders.com/
Justine Clark
https://justineclarktherapy.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/wellwithjustine/
Barry Condon
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/
https://www.instagram.com/clean.life.coaching/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-condon-577b85294/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Alcohol Freedom Finders.
This week we talked to CarolineSherlock, an additional
therapist, a functional medicinepractitioner, and a lecturer on
genetics and mutually genomics.
So Caroline, as Liam Neeson oncesaid, has a very particular set
of skills acquired over a longcareer, and it was actually this
that made her own drinking feelprogressively out of alignment
(00:22):
with who she was professionallyas well as who she wanted to be
as a mother.
Her particular set of skills didinitially make her an expert in
mitigating the effects ofalcohol on the body.
She used all manner of biohacksto avoid hangovers, but
ultimately she realized thatthis same deep knowledge could
be instrumental in helping herfind alcohol freedom and talk
(00:42):
about becoming a fellow alcoholfreedom finder.
She's even started her owncoaching business called Alcohol
Freedom Coaching.
So let's dive in and hear allabout it from Caroline.
Justine Clark (00:52):
Wow.
Uh,
Caroline Sherlock (00:54):
Uh,
Justine Clark (00:54):
excited
Caroline Sherlock (00:55):
excited to,
Justine Clark (00:55):
have Caroline with us today.
She is a fellow, the Naked Mindcoach, and also an incredible,
functional medicinepractitioner.
So we're really excited howgonna bring together both
freedom from alcohol and the,the, the health aspect as well.
So, welcome Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (01:14):
thank you very much for having me here.
I'm really excited to be talkingto you both.
Barry Condon (01:19):
Yeah, it's lovely to, lovely to meet you,
Caroline.
So why don't you take us backto, when you, decided for
yourself you needed to make achange with your.
Relationship to alcohol.
Caroline Sherlock (01:29):
Sure.
So this was something that I hadbeen contemplating for a while
and it really came to a head, aswith I think many of us during
the pandemic.
which I found super stressful,as did most of us.
And, I had been questioning myrelationship with alcohol for,
for a while.
I, I had used alcohol for years.
(01:50):
in terms of just switching offat the end of the day, didn't
really see it as a particularproblem.
Never had hangovers.
I never really felt drunk, to behonest, with, with what I was
doing.
Got up high, very highfunctioning.
and it, and it wasn't really aproblem, in my mind until I
started to question myrelationship when I wasn't
(02:12):
really able to take a break fromit successfully.
That lasted really for morethan, honestly, kind of four or
five days.
I think the maximum I managed todo was.
Was 10 or 11, which seemsutterly ridiculous.
So I started to have thatcognitive dissonance come in
whereby I was just thinking, youknow, what, what am I doing
(02:33):
here?
and I've been a functionalmedicine practitioner, well a
nutritionist for kind of 20years now, and I do a lot with,
genetics and nutrigenomics andlecture and teach on it.
And I have my own client, clientbase, obviously.
and.
I, I knew that my, my genes werenot good at the end of the day
(02:54):
in terms of being able to detox.
And I knew, you know, I, I'dbecome an expert basically on, I
guess, alcohol and detox and howit had, was metabolized.
I knew everything, so I wasbiohacking everything.
I was using the supplements, Iwas using the diet.
I, you know, was a personaltrainer before I got into
nutrition as well.
You know, I was doing everythingright, but there was a lot of
(03:16):
biohacking going along, whichwas.
Quite ridiculous when actuallythe solution, to be honest, was
just stop drinking.
But I was putting it all in, youknow?
And but I kept looking at mygenes and there's a particular
little gene called a glu aroundthe glutathione family, which is
how we detox.
And my glutathione genes areterrible.
(03:36):
And there's this kind of naggingthought at the back of my head
that this is gonna catch up withme one day.
You know, you know, I tell myclients, you can't outrun.
A bad diet and I was thinking,what am I doing?
Because my genes are not gonnabe so forgiving, you know, as I
go forward like this.
So that really had been therefor a while.
(03:58):
and the second thing was that.
My daughter had had some healthchallenges and I decided at that
point I wanted to be 100%present for her and available
whatever time of day or night.
And if I was drinking at all, Ididn't feel that I was as
switched on, obviously as Ishould be.
and that might've been 11o'clock at night or two in the
morning.
So that didn't sit well with me.
(04:20):
and then the final thing was Idecided that I just really
wanted to.
Be an inspiration as we all dofor our kids, and a good role
model.
And this was kind of the final,I think, nail in the coffin for
me because I decided that I wasnot showing them the strong kind
of female lead that I thought Iwas doing because I was
(04:42):
effectively dealing with stresswith alcohol in the evening and
turning to a glass of wine,which I did not feel was a good
role model, for my kids.
And I'd grown up around alcohol,you know, it was.
Kind of what I believed wasokay.
And I got to the point where Ithought these three things came
together so much and I justthought, it's not okay anymore.
I need to do something about it.
(05:03):
And I found it hard to stop, youknow, quite honestly.
And we were in the pandemic.
There was always a reason,wasn't there to, and another
stressful day, you know,something else happened.
And I had heard, Annie Graceactually talk.
On a conference, on an addictionconference that I was on a few
years back, with a doctor in theStates, and I'd really resonated
(05:27):
with her and her methodology.
I really liked what she said, soI re-found her basically.
And this naked mind andeverything started from there at
that point.
Yeah.
Justine Clark (05:38):
Well, uh,
Caroline Sherlock (05:40):
uh, there's a lot there.
Justine Clark (05:41):
I think
Caroline Sherlock (05:42):
I think
Justine Clark (05:42):
struck
Caroline Sherlock (05:43):
struck me
Justine Clark (05:44):
there is
Caroline Sherlock (05:44):
there is the fact that
Justine Clark (05:46):
much
Caroline Sherlock (05:46):
much a
Justine Clark (05:47):
normal functioning.
Person.
And I love the idea about, youknow, you had all the biohacks
and I think our audience isgonna be not so much interested
in the biohacks for drinking,but now all of your biohacks
around how to recover fromhaving drugs so much.
But we'll come onto that in abit, I'm sure.
What I'm
Caroline Sherlock (06:06):
What I'm really.
Justine Clark (06:06):
is if you tried so many times and you only
managed four or five in a max of11 days of, of not drinking,
what about, the methodology?
Really, know, made the changefor you what sunk in.
Caroline Sherlock (06:22):
It was really the, the emphasis on it's not
your fault and the compassion,you know, because ev I was
utterly convinced.
I, I didn't want to be labeled.
also in the health world, thehealth and wellness world, there
is a lot of drinking that goeson, you know, that people don't
talk about.
But there is a lot of,self-judgment, self-criticism, I
(06:43):
think around that as well.
And I really like.
Annie's approach to, you have tohave this self-love and
compassion for yourself, which Ihad never really viewed at all,
in that way before.
So that really worked for me.
And also questioning all thestories.
You know, this is what we do.
We deconstruct everything, don'twe?
(07:03):
And the beliefs that we have andthat we hold.
And I had these deep ingrainedbeliefs that, you know, that
everything actually required.
Alcohol, you know, and maybethat was me telling myself that
story, but a lot of that camefrom maybe a long time ago.
and really, you know, to, at theend of the day, you know, it's a
(07:28):
reward.
It's a treat.
It's how you switch off.
Or you go to a, you go toanything, you go to a concert,
you go to the theater, you know,and you have a drink.
You know, it's, and it's thisconstant.
Beliefs and this, this is whatit's doing for me.
And I think what reallyresonated with the methodology
was taking apart that andlooking at it from a really
(07:48):
objective point of view.
Because I knew the science, youknow, I knew the, what happens
with the blood sugar.
I know you know what happens interms of the damage, but I
didn't wanna hear that.
You know, and no one does dothey, you know, when you are in
it, you don't wanna readsomething, you don't wanna be
lectured to.
You don't wanna hear that it'sbad for you.
Of course we know it's bad foryou.
And so what I really liked wasthat methodology of let's just
(08:09):
step back from what we'refeeling, the emotions around it.
you know, what actually is thefeeling that I'm experiencing
when I want to pick up thisdrink?
Is it because I actually wantwhat's in it or is it because I
feel, you know, lonely or bored,or that I feel that I need some
sort of a reward for what's justhappened?
So, you know, I liked that.
(08:31):
It, that ability to do that andthe, the detached kind of, let's
step back from it and exploreand let's get curious about it.
And it's an experiment.
I had no intention ever ofgiving up alcohol permanently.
If someone had said to me, youknow, and this is the thing
someone had said to me, youknow, you're gonna give it up.
I'd be like, no, there'sabsolutely no way.
(08:53):
And even on, so, so I wassuccessful on my fourth alcohol
experiment for a variety ofdifferent reasons.
but even then I went into itjust with this, I just want to
take a break.
I want to prove to myself that Ican take a break.
I don't wanna give it up.
It was a 10 day break.
I was intending 10 days, youknow, that was all I felt
genuinely I could achieve.
(09:15):
And then I thought, if I got totwo weeks, great.
You know, that's excellent.
And it just continued, you know?
And I felt so good from what Iwas doing, that's what happened.
But if you'd said to me at thebeginning, you're gonna give it
up, I wouldn't have even startedit because that was not even an
option as I think.
It is for a lot of people, youknow?
yeah.
Barry Condon (09:34):
Yeah, no, I get that.
I mean, I, I, I think when Istopped, I don't think I'd, I'd
gone more than two or three days
Caroline Sherlock (09:41):
Yeah,
Barry Condon (09:42):
for as long as I could remember.
And, I think, you know, Justineoften says that we're
auto-enrolled into a societythat, that we're drinking is
everything.
Caroline Sherlock (09:52):
it is.
I.
Barry Condon (09:53):
you know, what you do when you're not working and
or, you know, when you'retogether with people when you
are, you know, as you said, youknow, all those occasions they
are an occasion to drink and,and.
It, it goes hand in hand with,with all these things and to,
to, to try and step away and seeit not as the, the, the sort of,
answer to, to all your, desiresand, and, and, and, and, and
soothing and, and all the thingsthat it, it pretends, to give
(10:16):
you is, is very, very difficult.
so how, you know, what, what's,what's, what was the sort of.
I in that fourth, did you sayfourth time that you, you did
the,
Caroline Sherlock (10:25):
It was the fourth time.
Barry Condon (10:27):
that it was the, was the lucky one.
what was it that, that, in that,you know, at the end of that,
what was it that that sort ofmade you think, oh, well
actually I could go longer than10 days?
Oh, I could, I could, I could,you know, do this, for the
foreseeable future.
Caroline Sherlock (10:45):
So that fourth time, I, it, it, I feel
it wasn't luck.
It was planning with that and I.
Stepped back.
I approached it with kind ofmilitary precision because I
thought if I do this properlyand then if I still fail at it,
(11:06):
which is how I was thinking atthe time, I thought, you know, I
don't know what, what I'll donext.
so I kind of set myself up tonot fail, and I took into
account how I was gonna feel,what I was gonna do, with that
first week.
So the coaching for me was justinstrumental and then I layered
on what I do when in my,functional medicine clinic and I
(11:30):
knew that my sleep was probablygonna be terrible because when I
had tried that before, and Ithink this is what people don't
tell you either.
You know, you try and give itup.
Everyone's like, oh no sleeps.
You sleep so much better.
You feel so much better.
And the reality is, for many ofus, actually no.
It gets.
Worse.
It's rough, you know, if youhave been, having a glass of the
(11:52):
wine of wine at the end of theday for, you know, however long.
So I, I looked at all of thesethings and I planned and I did
biohack my way around, sleeparound, how I was gonna feel and
also what I was gonna do, andreally thought this time about,
well, you know, what am I gonnado on a Friday night or Saturday
(12:13):
night because.
For as long as I could remember,you know, my Friday and Saturday
nights had had a glass of wine,you know, or, or more in them.
So it was really that who am I,you know, what is my identity?
And I remember distinctlygetting into the end of that
first week and Saturday morningjust thinking I'm up early.
(12:34):
I feel, I actually feel good.
You know?
And I think the changing thingwas that with this particular
time was that.
I'd got it right.
I actually felt good.
I didn't feel terrible throughthat whole week, and beyond.
And I did feel better and betterand better.
And as you know what happens,you get your self respect back
(12:55):
through doing that.
You think, actually, I can dothis.
I've done it.
And then that just is a rollingstone for wanting to do more and
keeping going with it.
And it was never a.
It was never, I'm gonna get tothree months, I'm gonna get to,
you know, there was never atimeframe.
It was just for today, let'sjust see if we can get to the
next weekend.
And I think, you know, where I'dalways fallen before was on
(13:17):
those weekends, the Friday.
That was why it was a kind of 10days, you know, or four or five
days.
You'd start on a Monday orSunday, get to the Friday,
Saturday, and then it would gowrong.
And I think the more that yourepeat that action and you
realize you can get through itand actually it's okay, and
actually you feel great fordoing it, you, you keep going
(13:37):
with it.
And I think this time, theproductivity and this is what
you gain, you know, you talkabout what you gain through
doing it, the productivity thatyou can feel, and the time that
you get back is huge.
You know, so like our businessthat month.
Our existing business like justflew through the roof, like I
(13:58):
haven't seen
Justine Clark (13:59):
totally agree with you.
Caroline Sherlock (14:00):
Agree with you.
Justine Clark (14:01):
you know, this big
Caroline Sherlock (14:02):
I think, you know, this move I've done from
Justine Clark (14:04):
Zealand, there is no
Caroline Sherlock (14:05):
is no way
Justine Clark (14:06):
been
Caroline Sherlock (14:06):
I would've been able to
Justine Clark (14:07):
You know, pack up a
Caroline Sherlock (14:09):
pick up.
Justine Clark (14:09):
the house, do all the planning.
I did it.
My husband was working fulltime, so it was down to me to,
with military precision over atwo year period to move our
whole lives into, into NewZealand, checking out schools
the whole lot.
It was
Caroline Sherlock (14:21):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:22):
And I can safely say I was not stressed and I did
not get sick during the process.
There was a
Caroline Sherlock (14:29):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:29):
points where I was like, whoa, this is a lot.
But I genuinely, I genuinelybelieve that.
we, we do get so much more ofour, you know, productivity
back.
The three things that
Caroline Sherlock (14:40):
Things you
Justine Clark (14:41):
that have really
Caroline Sherlock (14:41):
really stood
Justine Clark (14:42):
people will, will be really helpful for them is
it's
Caroline Sherlock (14:46):
is it's number one, compassion is
Justine Clark (14:49):
coming at
Caroline Sherlock (14:50):
coming.
Justine Clark (14:50):
compassion and like, even if you do have a
little drink, midweek and you,you, and you go, oh no, it's day
one again.
Caroline Sherlock (14:57):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:57):
day one.
Again, with this work, it's justinformation.
You
Caroline Sherlock (15:00):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (15:01):
on, you're still on your journey.
The second
Caroline Sherlock (15:03):
The second part is the plan,
Justine Clark (15:05):
I think,
Caroline Sherlock (15:05):
I think
Justine Clark (15:06):
for all of us,
Caroline Sherlock (15:07):
of us,
Justine Clark (15:08):
that have failed with that
Caroline Sherlock (15:09):
that have failed
Justine Clark (15:10):
night,
Caroline Sherlock (15:10):
night and so many.
Justine Clark (15:12):
plan the hell out of it.
If that means you don't go outfor the first couple of Fridays,
if that means that you.
You, you plan a movie night, ifthat means that you get in
really expensive alcohol freeproducts and chocolate, I, it
doesn't matter.
Is planning is key to get overthose first few firsts of doing
things, without alcohol.
and then the last piece, which Ido want you to talk more about
(15:34):
'cause
Caroline Sherlock (15:34):
Because No.
Justine Clark (15:35):
about, this is I want to know.
Your top biohacks when you werein that first, month.
So that people can, who, who,aren't necess still gonna come
and well, they can come and seeyou, give'em those details.
But as a starting point, what's
Caroline Sherlock (15:50):
What's key gonna help them?
Justine Clark (15:52):
first couple of weeks?
Caroline Sherlock (15:55):
So this is, this is what I think is key and
this is what made the differencefor me.
You know, and there's somepeople, you know what, there's
some people that can just giveup alcohol like that and that's
fine.
There's no issue.
There's some people that canjust work on the emotions and
the coaching, and that's fine.
For me, I needed more.
So I approached it with, sleep.
I knew my sleep was gonna bedisrupted, so I.
(16:18):
I allowed for that.
but also I looked at, some ofthe sleep pathways.
So how we produce melatonin, forinstance.
a lot of the calming.
Herbs that we use that help topromote sleep.
And I put those in for myself.
So I would have magnesium in theevenings, and there's a
particular form of magnesiumthat you can use that actually
(16:39):
promote sleep.
So it's not just any oldmagnesium.
So I, I did all this and I hadthe kind of calming herbs in, so
I did everything that I couldaround sleep.
So I think sleep is key becauseas soon as your sleep's off, if
you don't, you know, and ifyou're, if you're working, if
you're high functioning, ifyou're, you've got stuff to do.
You know, even if it's just takekids to school, but if you're
running a business as well, youknow, you can't afford to not
(17:02):
have sleep, you know, in thatfirst week.
So that was really important tome.
The second thing was making surethat my diet was on track with
blood sugar, because when wedrink, our blood sugar is
regulation is off.
And so by feeding your body withadequate protein, replenishing
the nutrients that we wouldlose.
(17:25):
Through drinking, you know, andparticularly the B vitamins,
which are very involved withenergy production, chromium that
helps to balance blood sugar.
There's lots and lots of thesedifferent nutrients that, you
can get in a multivitamin.
But, but I particularly focusedon them.
and also knowing my genetics, Ikind of.
Put in more of some of these,particularly where I knew that
(17:47):
my, pathways were gonna becompromised and I also supported
my liver, you know, so with someof the, more detox.
Friendly foods.
so I really planned the diet andI really think that was key
because if you try to give upand if you do not have adequate
protein in, if you end up eatingkind of bowls of pasta and
(18:07):
cereal or just kind of toastbecause you don't really know
what you're doing, your bloodsugar's all over the place and
it's gonna make you feelterrible, you know?
So, so you're kind of.
Setting yourself a little bit upfor failure there if you've
haven't got that based diet.
and I think the third thing withme was I understood the
neurotransmitter pathways.
(18:28):
So when we, when we sayneurotransmitters, it's all the,
the chemicals that make us feelgood.
So like, serotonin makes us feelhappy.
GABA helps us to relax anddopamine's kind of the really
well known one with, with, withalcohol.
But actually.
Focusing on, pathways that helpus relax.
So GABA for instance, you know,it's, it's very clever what
(18:50):
alcohol does.
It latches on to the GABAreceptor in the body.
So we don't need to then produceour own gaba.
And GABA is your chill out,relax.
It's our kind of naturalsedative basically.
So when you're having alcohol inthat latches onto it.
But when you take the alcoholout.
(19:11):
Your body's kind of going, whereis that?
What's happening?
So you've got this heightenedsense of anxiety.
So actually what we wanna doduring that first week is really
promote that relaxation so thatyou don't have as much anxiety
fill the stress.
And you know, on the, on theconverse side, you've got this
little thing called glutamateand alcohol excites that, you
(19:34):
know, it makes us have more.
It's more glutamate.
And again, when you take the thealcohol out, you know, you, you
get this rebound effect.
So you've kind of got moreanxiety, excitement.
And there's, there's lots offoods that trigger glutamate,
you know?
So you don't wanna be havingthose foods in the first week
because it's gonna make you feelmore anxious, more stressed.
And for many of us, that's theentire reason.
(19:57):
You know, in some cases thatpeople turn to alcohol in the
first place is to reset theseneurotransmitters by kind of the
only tool.
That we know how at that time,and, you know, alcohol does that
very successfully.
It plays around with thatbalance, but then of course has
these rebound effects and leavesus feeling worse.
So, so if you know, if we knowthat, you know, you can get
(20:19):
through those first two weeks alittle, make it a little bit
easier, which then sets up yourchances of continuing, You know,
and, and continuing to gowithout alcohol for longer, I
think it gives people more of achance of success and it's per,
it's, it's certainly what madethe difference for me, really,
you know, kind of using thesupplements and, and for want of
a better word, biohacking thesepathways.
(20:40):
But it was particularly sleep,blood sugar, and the
neurotransmitters that I focusedon, and it really was a winning
combination, and that's what I,you know, really focus on with.
With clients, you know, it, it,it gives you a better chance of
winning with this and, andsucceeding during those first
few weeks.
And I do think, you know, as youknow, if you get through those
first few weeks, most people canget to kind of 21 days or 28
(21:04):
days, and that might be all theywant to do, and that's fine, you
know, but there is that momentumonce you start, you know, going
with it.
And, you know, that's where itgets interesting because a lot
of these.
Nutrient deficiencies don't justself resolve in kind of a couple
of days.
You know, some of them are oneweek, two weeks, some of them
are three months, you know, andsome areas are, you know, kind
(21:27):
of up to a year, you know, to,to actually rebound.
So by working on those andcontinuing to incorporate it,
that's where it can be reallyinteresting'cause you are
working with your own physiologyand biochemistry with it at the
same time as.
Taking apart all these beliefsthat we've held for so long, you
know, and, and rebalancingeverything.
Barry Condon (21:51):
Yeah, I mean, that was for me, the most powerful
part of, of, changing my,Relationship with alcohol was to
see it differently, tounderstand the science, to
understand that the, you know,the, the, the way the
neurotransmitters work and the,and the rebound as you call it.
That, that, that idea that, youknow, I, I, you know, initially
I drank'cause it was fun.
I drank to have fun and, and itwas fun for, for a long time.
(22:13):
It was fun.
And then, you know, you getresponsibilities.
Your, your life changes your.
Not out with friends as often,and you end up, you know, I
ended up, you know, drinkingmore than I should have been or
more than I wanted to plan to,at home.
And, and it became a, a sort ofthing that, you know, you had
more responsibility.
You had a mortgage, you had a, ajob, responsibilities.
(22:34):
And, and I was, you know,looking back, I realize I was
drinking because I was stressed.
I was drinking because I was,you know, feeling, you know,
under pressure.
and knowing now.
that actually, you know, it wassort of chicken and egg thing
really, because the, alcohol,like you said with the rebound,
it, it boosts all those feelingsof stress.
(22:55):
You know, it, as you said, thatyour, your relaxation,
receptors, the GABA receptorsare, are, are, are either closed
or I don't know exactly how, howthat that works, but it,
they're, they're, they're notfunctioning in the same way that
they, they
Caroline Sherlock (23:06):
Yeah.
Barry Condon (23:06):
be.
so you.
are left in a sort of situationwhere, you know, you're being
flooded with cortisol and, andall the sort of stress hormones
trying to fight off the, thealcohol, sedation effect.
and those last, you know, youknow, they last the whole day,
the next day.
and, and so it's, you know, you,you never quite get back to a
(23:27):
regular baseline'cause yourbody's thinking, well, I'm not
gonna bother.
Caroline Sherlock (23:30):
Yeah, totally.
Barry Condon (23:31):
the, the happy hormones, to a normal base level
because you're gonna, you'regonna flood me with, with
alcohol, which is gonna seteverything, you know, tip
everything the wrong direction.
And so yeah, understanding thatand thinking, oh gosh, you know,
so what I thought of as thesolution was actually part of
the problem, was a realmindblower.
but sugar, yeah, that one Ireally didn't expect.
(23:53):
And because,'cause I never, Isort of thought, you know, well,
I, I don't drink.
Cocktails and, you know, I justdrink wine and, and maybe the
odd beer and, and, and, and so Ithought, well, I mean, I you say
that it actually messes with thewhole, your whole sort of,
glucose system rather, it's not,not, not so much that alcohol or
wine is, is is full of sugar,it's just that it messes with,
(24:15):
or, or is it both That it messeswith the, the system as well.
Caroline Sherlock (24:19):
It is smooth.
It is both.
So it depends.
It depends what you're drinking,but yes, for sure.
So alcohol raises the bloodglucose level very, very, very
quickly.
And the problem is that it's,it's this, the compound when
it's broken down, it's theacetaldehyde.
which some people don't breakdown particularly well, but
that's very, very damaging tothe cells.
And so you can, this is why whenwe, you know, people, people who
(24:42):
drink, you know, are at morerisk of diabetes and, and, you
know, blood sugar dysregulationbecause the insulin that the
receptors on the cells justdon't work as well because they
become damaged over time and youmight not see that immediately.
But it just sits there in thebackground until it gets to the
point where your body can'tactually handle the glucose, you
(25:03):
know, very well at all.
so yes, that blood sugardysregulation is there, and the
other reason is, you know, your,your sleep is disrupted
significantly.
The, the REM sleep and sleep isjust when we detox, when we,
when we sort everything out.
But sleep is highly linked tothat.
Gut microbiome as well, which,regulates sugar levels.
And, you know, if you thinkabout it logically, anything
(25:26):
that we eat or drink goesthrough the digestive system.
And we know that alcohol reallyaffects the gut microbiome.
It makes the gut leaky, and itmakes it much harder for our
body to just regulate, you know,how we're feeling.
And, and if you have not got,you know, appropriate levels of
the other neurotransmitters ofserotonin, if your dopamine's
(25:46):
all over the place.
You know, because we're, youknow, looking for that drink,
that reward at the end of theday, if your GABA's off as well.
and many of the others, youknow, you become reliant on
that.
I guess that alcohol coming in.
Just that little burst ofenergy, that little kind of mood
up regulation as well, what Ilove, what I love what you're
talking about here is.
Justine Clark (26:06):
it, it compounds the idea that it's not our
fault.
So we know through Annie Grace'swork, alcohol's fault, not ours.
But what you are talking
Caroline Sherlock (26:14):
Talking
Justine Clark (26:14):
what I deeply
Caroline Sherlock (26:15):
deeply.
Justine Clark (26:16):
is that
Caroline Sherlock (26:16):
Is that
Justine Clark (26:17):
happening to us by biochemically.
Means that a, we may have adispo predisposition not to cope
with alcohol well, but moreover,we, when we are trying to
recover or from just from aday-to-day drinking, that our
bodies actually needs thealcohol just to feel,
Caroline Sherlock (26:35):
feel normal?
Justine Clark (26:36):
again.
we are
Caroline Sherlock (26:37):
We're running outta time.
Justine Clark (26:38):
Caroline, and I'm
Caroline Sherlock (26:39):
Caroline,
Justine Clark (26:39):
to hear, you'd answer our
Caroline Sherlock (26:41):
answer our last
Justine Clark (26:42):
is,
Caroline Sherlock (26:42):
is,
Justine Clark (26:43):
three
Caroline Sherlock (26:43):
in three words
Justine Clark (26:44):
more,
Caroline Sherlock (26:44):
more.
Justine Clark (26:45):
what,
Caroline Sherlock (26:46):
what,
Justine Clark (26:46):
biggest sort of takeaway
Caroline Sherlock (26:48):
takeaway about being
Justine Clark (26:49):
alcohol
Caroline Sherlock (26:50):
freedom?
Three words.
So, I, freedom, obviously, buteveryone says freedom, so I'm
not gonna, I'm not gonna do thatone, but my first is gratitude
and, I feel hugely, immenselygrateful.
That I have not got alcohol inmy life anymore.
You know, I could not behappier.
(27:11):
That for my, second half, youknow, of my life, that it feels
like a gift that I have a, asecond chance, you know, so I,
I'm so grateful to have foundAnnie Grace and.
The community and also be ableto do the work that I do and
have the background that I doto, to have done this.
So that would be the first one.
Gratitude.
(27:32):
Second one is alignment for mebecause I really feel that, you
know, I've always been veryopen.
I share whatever I talk about,whatever, you know, and what you
get is what you see with me, youknow, and I really feel so
aligned that I am, you know,100% genuinely walking my talk.
Now there is, you know, nohiding anything and that makes.
(27:54):
A huge difference.
Okay.
So, alignment.
And I think the third thingwould be, I feel it has given me
this sense of, mission and drivein that, you know, this is, this
is really what I, I wanna donow.
And I think it's a veryunderrepresented area because
it's not just that first month,one month, two months, three
(28:14):
months that we need to focus on.
There is a whole lifetime aheadof us where.
We can change the trajectory ofour lives and all of the things
that are associated withdrinking alcohol, whether or not
it is raised risk ofAlzheimer's, dementia, diabetes,
liver cancer, all of thesethings we can influence, you
(28:35):
know, our ability to deal withthem by upregulating certain
pathways, you know, and mentalhealth as well, or hormones.
All of these things that alcoholdisrupt.
Including liver function andthyroid function and sex
hormones, you know, and theneurotransmitters.
We can affect all of those andwe can positively influence our
ability to live long and healthyto, you know, I'm aiming for a
(28:58):
hundred or more.
You know, and I think once youhave.
Given up alcohol.
You know, I don't wanna be takendown by any of this stuff.
You know, we've done the hardwork and I don't think it's
acceptable to just kind of sithere.
I wanna make sure that my cellsare working properly.
you know, I want to make surethat my cognitive function is
there till the old age, and sothat none of the drinking that I
(29:20):
did is gonna affect that as faras I'm concerned.
So I'm very driven to share thatwith, as many people as I can.
It's kind of not just.
Give it up and okay, we aredone.
It's okay.
What about the damage that hasbeen done and how can we
mitigate that and actually howcan we make our lives and our
health better than, you know,even if we hadn't done that
(29:41):
drinking before?
And there's ways to do that, andthat's what I'm really
passionate about now.
So driven would absolutely be mylast word there.
Barry Condon (29:49):
That's brilliant.
and I think there'll be a lot ofpeople who, who want to know
more and want, want to.
I want you to help them.
so where can they find you?
Caroline Sherlock (29:56):
So they can find me on my website, which is
alcohol freedom coaching.com.
and go there and just, yeah,connect with me and find out
more.
Justine Clark (30:07):
Thanks so
Caroline Sherlock (30:08):
Thanks so much for being Caroline.
Justine Clark (30:09):
I mean, I
Caroline Sherlock (30:10):
I mean, I just love the depth
Justine Clark (30:12):
knowledge
Caroline Sherlock (30:12):
knowledge that you have and
Justine Clark (30:14):
worked with Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (30:15):
Caroline
Justine Clark (30:15):
in a previous life with, as a functional
health practitioner, and I can,can't recommend her, compassion
knowledge.
yeah, she's a font ofinformation and kindness.
So do reach out to Caroline
Caroline Sherlock (30:29):
Oh, thank you, Justine.
Barry Condon (30:30):
Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (30:31):
Thank you both.
It's been so good talking toyou.
This is Alcohol Freedom Finders.
This week we talked to CarolineSherlock, an additional
therapist, a functional medicinepractitioner, and a lecturer on
genetics and mutually genomics.
So Caroline, as Liam Neeson oncesaid, has a very particular set
of skills acquired over a longcareer, and it was actually this
that made her own drinking feelprogressively out of alignment
(00:22):
with who she was professionallyas well as who she wanted to be
as a mother.
Her particular set of skills didinitially make her an expert in
mitigating the effects ofalcohol on the body.
She used all manner of biohacksto avoid hangovers, but
ultimately she realized thatthis same deep knowledge could
be instrumental in helping herfind alcohol freedom and talk
(00:42):
about becoming a fellow alcoholfreedom finder.
She's even started her owncoaching business called Alcohol
Freedom Coaching.
So let's dive in and hear allabout it from Caroline.
Justine Clark (00:52):
Wow.
Uh,
Caroline Sherlock (00:54):
Uh,
Justine Clark (00:54):
excited
Caroline Sherlock (00:55):
excited to,
Justine Clark (00:55):
have Caroline with us today.
She is a fellow, the Naked Mindcoach, and also an incredible,
functional medicinepractitioner.
So we're really excited howgonna bring together both
freedom from alcohol and the,the, the health aspect as well.
So, welcome Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (01:14):
thank you very much for having me here.
I'm really excited to be talkingto you both.
Barry Condon (01:19):
Yeah, it's lovely to, lovely to meet you,
Caroline.
So why don't you take us backto, when you, decided for
yourself you needed to make achange with your.
Relationship to alcohol.
Caroline Sherlock (01:29):
Sure.
So this was something that I hadbeen contemplating for a while
and it really came to a head, aswith I think many of us during
the pandemic.
which I found super stressful,as did most of us.
And, I had been questioning myrelationship with alcohol for,
for a while.
I, I had used alcohol for years.
(01:50):
in terms of just switching offat the end of the day, didn't
really see it as a particularproblem.
Never had hangovers.
I never really felt drunk, to behonest, with, with what I was
doing.
Got up high, very highfunctioning.
and it, and it wasn't really aproblem, in my mind until I
started to question myrelationship when I wasn't
(02:12):
really able to take a break fromit successfully.
That lasted really for morethan, honestly, kind of four or
five days.
I think the maximum I managed todo was.
Was 10 or 11, which seemsutterly ridiculous.
So I started to have thatcognitive dissonance come in
whereby I was just thinking, youknow, what, what am I doing
(02:33):
here?
and I've been a functionalmedicine practitioner, well a
nutritionist for kind of 20years now, and I do a lot with,
genetics and nutrigenomics andlecture and teach on it.
And I have my own client, clientbase, obviously.
and.
I, I knew that my, my genes werenot good at the end of the day
(02:54):
in terms of being able to detox.
And I knew, you know, I, I'dbecome an expert basically on, I
guess, alcohol and detox and howit had, was metabolized.
I knew everything, so I wasbiohacking everything.
I was using the supplements, Iwas using the diet.
I, you know, was a personaltrainer before I got into
nutrition as well.
You know, I was doing everythingright, but there was a lot of
(03:16):
biohacking going along, whichwas.
Quite ridiculous when actuallythe solution, to be honest, was
just stop drinking.
But I was putting it all in, youknow?
And but I kept looking at mygenes and there's a particular
little gene called a glu aroundthe glutathione family, which is
how we detox.
And my glutathione genes areterrible.
(03:36):
And there's this kind of naggingthought at the back of my head
that this is gonna catch up withme one day.
You know, you know, I tell myclients, you can't outrun.
A bad diet and I was thinking,what am I doing?
Because my genes are not gonnabe so forgiving, you know, as I
go forward like this.
So that really had been therefor a while.
(03:58):
and the second thing was that.
My daughter had had some healthchallenges and I decided at that
point I wanted to be 100%present for her and available
whatever time of day or night.
And if I was drinking at all, Ididn't feel that I was as
switched on, obviously as Ishould be.
and that might've been 11o'clock at night or two in the
morning.
So that didn't sit well with me.
(04:20):
and then the final thing was Idecided that I just really
wanted to.
Be an inspiration as we all dofor our kids, and a good role
model.
And this was kind of the final,I think, nail in the coffin for
me because I decided that I wasnot showing them the strong kind
of female lead that I thought Iwas doing because I was
(04:42):
effectively dealing with stresswith alcohol in the evening and
turning to a glass of wine,which I did not feel was a good
role model, for my kids.
And I'd grown up around alcohol,you know, it was.
Kind of what I believed wasokay.
And I got to the point where Ithought these three things came
together so much and I justthought, it's not okay anymore.
I need to do something about it.
(05:03):
And I found it hard to stop, youknow, quite honestly.
And we were in the pandemic.
There was always a reason,wasn't there to, and another
stressful day, you know,something else happened.
And I had heard, Annie Graceactually talk.
On a conference, on an addictionconference that I was on a few
years back, with a doctor in theStates, and I'd really resonated
(05:27):
with her and her methodology.
I really liked what she said, soI re-found her basically.
And this naked mind andeverything started from there at
that point.
Yeah.
Justine Clark (05:38):
Well, uh,
Caroline Sherlock (05:40):
uh, there's a lot there.
Justine Clark (05:41):
I think
Caroline Sherlock (05:42):
I think
Justine Clark (05:42):
struck
Caroline Sherlock (05:43):
struck me
Justine Clark (05:44):
there is
Caroline Sherlock (05:44):
there is the fact that
Justine Clark (05:46):
much
Caroline Sherlock (05:46):
much a
Justine Clark (05:47):
normal functioning.
Person.
And I love the idea about, youknow, you had all the biohacks
and I think our audience isgonna be not so much interested
in the biohacks for drinking,but now all of your biohacks
around how to recover fromhaving drugs so much.
But we'll come onto that in abit, I'm sure.
What I'm
Caroline Sherlock (06:06):
What I'm really.
Justine Clark (06:06):
is if you tried so many times and you only
managed four or five in a max of11 days of, of not drinking,
what about, the methodology?
Really, know, made the changefor you what sunk in.
Caroline Sherlock (06:22):
It was really the, the emphasis on it's not
your fault and the compassion,you know, because ev I was
utterly convinced.
I, I didn't want to be labeled.
also in the health world, thehealth and wellness world, there
is a lot of drinking that goeson, you know, that people don't
talk about.
But there is a lot of,self-judgment, self-criticism, I
(06:43):
think around that as well.
And I really like.
Annie's approach to, you have tohave this self-love and
compassion for yourself, which Ihad never really viewed at all,
in that way before.
So that really worked for me.
And also questioning all thestories.
You know, this is what we do.
We deconstruct everything, don'twe?
(07:03):
And the beliefs that we have andthat we hold.
And I had these deep ingrainedbeliefs that, you know, that
everything actually required.
Alcohol, you know, and maybethat was me telling myself that
story, but a lot of that camefrom maybe a long time ago.
and really, you know, to, at theend of the day, you know, it's a
(07:28):
reward.
It's a treat.
It's how you switch off.
Or you go to a, you go toanything, you go to a concert,
you go to the theater, you know,and you have a drink.
You know, it's, and it's thisconstant.
Beliefs and this, this is whatit's doing for me.
And I think what reallyresonated with the methodology
was taking apart that andlooking at it from a really
(07:48):
objective point of view.
Because I knew the science, youknow, I knew the, what happens
with the blood sugar.
I know you know what happens interms of the damage, but I
didn't wanna hear that.
You know, and no one does dothey, you know, when you are in
it, you don't wanna readsomething, you don't wanna be
lectured to.
You don't wanna hear that it'sbad for you.
Of course we know it's bad foryou.
And so what I really liked wasthat methodology of let's just
(08:09):
step back from what we'refeeling, the emotions around it.
you know, what actually is thefeeling that I'm experiencing
when I want to pick up thisdrink?
Is it because I actually wantwhat's in it or is it because I
feel, you know, lonely or bored,or that I feel that I need some
sort of a reward for what's justhappened?
So, you know, I liked that.
(08:31):
It, that ability to do that andthe, the detached kind of, let's
step back from it and exploreand let's get curious about it.
And it's an experiment.
I had no intention ever ofgiving up alcohol permanently.
If someone had said to me, youknow, and this is the thing
someone had said to me, youknow, you're gonna give it up.
I'd be like, no, there'sabsolutely no way.
(08:53):
And even on, so, so I wassuccessful on my fourth alcohol
experiment for a variety ofdifferent reasons.
but even then I went into itjust with this, I just want to
take a break.
I want to prove to myself that Ican take a break.
I don't wanna give it up.
It was a 10 day break.
I was intending 10 days, youknow, that was all I felt
genuinely I could achieve.
(09:15):
And then I thought, if I got totwo weeks, great.
You know, that's excellent.
And it just continued, you know?
And I felt so good from what Iwas doing, that's what happened.
But if you'd said to me at thebeginning, you're gonna give it
up, I wouldn't have even startedit because that was not even an
option as I think.
It is for a lot of people, youknow?
yeah.
Barry Condon (09:34):
Yeah, no, I get that.
I mean, I, I, I think when Istopped, I don't think I'd, I'd
gone more than two or three days
Caroline Sherlock (09:41):
Yeah,
Barry Condon (09:42):
for as long as I could remember.
And, I think, you know, Justineoften says that we're
auto-enrolled into a societythat, that we're drinking is
everything.
Caroline Sherlock (09:52):
it is.
I.
Barry Condon (09:53):
you know, what you do when you're not working and
or, you know, when you'retogether with people when you
are, you know, as you said, youknow, all those occasions they
are an occasion to drink and,and.
It, it goes hand in hand with,with all these things and to,
to, to try and step away and seeit not as the, the, the sort of,
answer to, to all your, desiresand, and, and, and, and, and
soothing and, and all the thingsthat it, it pretends, to give
(10:16):
you is, is very, very difficult.
so how, you know, what, what's,what's, what was the sort of.
I in that fourth, did you sayfourth time that you, you did
the,
Caroline Sherlock (10:25):
It was the fourth time.
Barry Condon (10:27):
that it was the, was the lucky one.
what was it that, that, in that,you know, at the end of that,
what was it that that sort ofmade you think, oh, well
actually I could go longer than10 days?
Oh, I could, I could, I could,you know, do this, for the
foreseeable future.
Caroline Sherlock (10:45):
So that fourth time, I, it, it, I feel
it wasn't luck.
It was planning with that and I.
Stepped back.
I approached it with kind ofmilitary precision because I
thought if I do this properlyand then if I still fail at it,
(11:06):
which is how I was thinking atthe time, I thought, you know, I
don't know what, what I'll donext.
so I kind of set myself up tonot fail, and I took into
account how I was gonna feel,what I was gonna do, with that
first week.
So the coaching for me was justinstrumental and then I layered
on what I do when in my,functional medicine clinic and I
(11:30):
knew that my sleep was probablygonna be terrible because when I
had tried that before, and Ithink this is what people don't
tell you either.
You know, you try and give itup.
Everyone's like, oh no sleeps.
You sleep so much better.
You feel so much better.
And the reality is, for many ofus, actually no.
It gets.
Worse.
It's rough, you know, if youhave been, having a glass of the
(11:52):
wine of wine at the end of theday for, you know, however long.
So I, I looked at all of thesethings and I planned and I did
biohack my way around, sleeparound, how I was gonna feel and
also what I was gonna do, andreally thought this time about,
well, you know, what am I gonnado on a Friday night or Saturday
(12:13):
night because.
For as long as I could remember,you know, my Friday and Saturday
nights had had a glass of wine,you know, or, or more in them.
So it was really that who am I,you know, what is my identity?
And I remember distinctlygetting into the end of that
first week and Saturday morningjust thinking I'm up early.
(12:34):
I feel, I actually feel good.
You know?
And I think the changing thingwas that with this particular
time was that.
I'd got it right.
I actually felt good.
I didn't feel terrible throughthat whole week, and beyond.
And I did feel better and betterand better.
And as you know what happens,you get your self respect back
(12:55):
through doing that.
You think, actually, I can dothis.
I've done it.
And then that just is a rollingstone for wanting to do more and
keeping going with it.
And it was never a.
It was never, I'm gonna get tothree months, I'm gonna get to,
you know, there was never atimeframe.
It was just for today, let'sjust see if we can get to the
next weekend.
And I think, you know, where I'dalways fallen before was on
(13:17):
those weekends, the Friday.
That was why it was a kind of 10days, you know, or four or five
days.
You'd start on a Monday orSunday, get to the Friday,
Saturday, and then it would gowrong.
And I think the more that yourepeat that action and you
realize you can get through itand actually it's okay, and
actually you feel great fordoing it, you, you keep going
(13:37):
with it.
And I think this time, theproductivity and this is what
you gain, you know, you talkabout what you gain through
doing it, the productivity thatyou can feel, and the time that
you get back is huge.
You know, so like our businessthat month.
Our existing business like justflew through the roof, like I
(13:58):
haven't seen
Justine Clark (13:59):
totally agree with you.
Caroline Sherlock (14:00):
Agree with you.
Justine Clark (14:01):
you know, this big
Caroline Sherlock (14:02):
I think, you know, this move I've done from
Justine Clark (14:04):
Zealand, there is no
Caroline Sherlock (14:05):
is no way
Justine Clark (14:06):
been
Caroline Sherlock (14:06):
I would've been able to
Justine Clark (14:07):
You know, pack up a
Caroline Sherlock (14:09):
pick up.
Justine Clark (14:09):
the house, do all the planning.
I did it.
My husband was working fulltime, so it was down to me to,
with military precision over atwo year period to move our
whole lives into, into NewZealand, checking out schools
the whole lot.
It was
Caroline Sherlock (14:21):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:22):
And I can safely say I was not stressed and I did
not get sick during the process.
There was a
Caroline Sherlock (14:29):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:29):
points where I was like, whoa, this is a lot.
But I genuinely, I genuinelybelieve that.
we, we do get so much more ofour, you know, productivity
back.
The three things that
Caroline Sherlock (14:40):
Things you
Justine Clark (14:41):
that have really
Caroline Sherlock (14:41):
really stood
Justine Clark (14:42):
people will, will be really helpful for them is
it's
Caroline Sherlock (14:46):
is it's number one, compassion is
Justine Clark (14:49):
coming at
Caroline Sherlock (14:50):
coming.
Justine Clark (14:50):
compassion and like, even if you do have a
little drink, midweek and you,you, and you go, oh no, it's day
one again.
Caroline Sherlock (14:57):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (14:57):
day one.
Again, with this work, it's justinformation.
You
Caroline Sherlock (15:00):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (15:01):
on, you're still on your journey.
The second
Caroline Sherlock (15:03):
The second part is the plan,
Justine Clark (15:05):
I think,
Caroline Sherlock (15:05):
I think
Justine Clark (15:06):
for all of us,
Caroline Sherlock (15:07):
of us,
Justine Clark (15:08):
that have failed with that
Caroline Sherlock (15:09):
that have failed
Justine Clark (15:10):
night,
Caroline Sherlock (15:10):
night and so many.
Justine Clark (15:12):
plan the hell out of it.
If that means you don't go outfor the first couple of Fridays,
if that means that you.
You, you plan a movie night, ifthat means that you get in
really expensive alcohol freeproducts and chocolate, I, it
doesn't matter.
Is planning is key to get overthose first few firsts of doing
things, without alcohol.
and then the last piece, which Ido want you to talk more about
(15:34):
'cause
Caroline Sherlock (15:34):
Because No.
Justine Clark (15:35):
about, this is I want to know.
Your top biohacks when you werein that first, month.
So that people can, who, who,aren't necess still gonna come
and well, they can come and seeyou, give'em those details.
But as a starting point, what's
Caroline Sherlock (15:50):
What's key gonna help them?
Justine Clark (15:52):
first couple of weeks?
Caroline Sherlock (15:55):
So this is, this is what I think is key and
this is what made the differencefor me.
You know, and there's somepeople, you know what, there's
some people that can just giveup alcohol like that and that's
fine.
There's no issue.
There's some people that canjust work on the emotions and
the coaching, and that's fine.
For me, I needed more.
So I approached it with, sleep.
I knew my sleep was gonna bedisrupted, so I.
(16:18):
I allowed for that.
but also I looked at, some ofthe sleep pathways.
So how we produce melatonin, forinstance.
a lot of the calming.
Herbs that we use that help topromote sleep.
And I put those in for myself.
So I would have magnesium in theevenings, and there's a
particular form of magnesiumthat you can use that actually
(16:39):
promote sleep.
So it's not just any oldmagnesium.
So I, I did all this and I hadthe kind of calming herbs in, so
I did everything that I couldaround sleep.
So I think sleep is key becauseas soon as your sleep's off, if
you don't, you know, and ifyou're, if you're working, if
you're high functioning, ifyou're, you've got stuff to do.
You know, even if it's just takekids to school, but if you're
running a business as well, youknow, you can't afford to not
(17:02):
have sleep, you know, in thatfirst week.
So that was really important tome.
The second thing was making surethat my diet was on track with
blood sugar, because when wedrink, our blood sugar is
regulation is off.
And so by feeding your body withadequate protein, replenishing
the nutrients that we wouldlose.
(17:25):
Through drinking, you know, andparticularly the B vitamins,
which are very involved withenergy production, chromium that
helps to balance blood sugar.
There's lots and lots of thesedifferent nutrients that, you
can get in a multivitamin.
But, but I particularly focusedon them.
and also knowing my genetics, Ikind of.
Put in more of some of these,particularly where I knew that
(17:47):
my, pathways were gonna becompromised and I also supported
my liver, you know, so with someof the, more detox.
Friendly foods.
so I really planned the diet andI really think that was key
because if you try to give upand if you do not have adequate
protein in, if you end up eatingkind of bowls of pasta and
(18:07):
cereal or just kind of toastbecause you don't really know
what you're doing, your bloodsugar's all over the place and
it's gonna make you feelterrible, you know?
So, so you're kind of.
Setting yourself a little bit upfor failure there if you've
haven't got that based diet.
and I think the third thing withme was I understood the
neurotransmitter pathways.
(18:28):
So when we, when we sayneurotransmitters, it's all the,
the chemicals that make us feelgood.
So like, serotonin makes us feelhappy.
GABA helps us to relax anddopamine's kind of the really
well known one with, with, withalcohol.
But actually.
Focusing on, pathways that helpus relax.
So GABA for instance, you know,it's, it's very clever what
(18:50):
alcohol does.
It latches on to the GABAreceptor in the body.
So we don't need to then produceour own gaba.
And GABA is your chill out,relax.
It's our kind of naturalsedative basically.
So when you're having alcohol inthat latches onto it.
But when you take the alcoholout.
(19:11):
Your body's kind of going, whereis that?
What's happening?
So you've got this heightenedsense of anxiety.
So actually what we wanna doduring that first week is really
promote that relaxation so thatyou don't have as much anxiety
fill the stress.
And you know, on the, on theconverse side, you've got this
little thing called glutamateand alcohol excites that, you
(19:34):
know, it makes us have more.
It's more glutamate.
And again, when you take the thealcohol out, you know, you, you
get this rebound effect.
So you've kind of got moreanxiety, excitement.
And there's, there's lots offoods that trigger glutamate,
you know?
So you don't wanna be havingthose foods in the first week
because it's gonna make you feelmore anxious, more stressed.
And for many of us, that's theentire reason.
(19:57):
You know, in some cases thatpeople turn to alcohol in the
first place is to reset theseneurotransmitters by kind of the
only tool.
That we know how at that time,and, you know, alcohol does that
very successfully.
It plays around with thatbalance, but then of course has
these rebound effects and leavesus feeling worse.
So, so if you know, if we knowthat, you know, you can get
(20:19):
through those first two weeks alittle, make it a little bit
easier, which then sets up yourchances of continuing, You know,
and, and continuing to gowithout alcohol for longer, I
think it gives people more of achance of success and it's per,
it's, it's certainly what madethe difference for me, really,
you know, kind of using thesupplements and, and for want of
a better word, biohacking thesepathways.
(20:40):
But it was particularly sleep,blood sugar, and the
neurotransmitters that I focusedon, and it really was a winning
combination, and that's what I,you know, really focus on with.
With clients, you know, it, it,it gives you a better chance of
winning with this and, andsucceeding during those first
few weeks.
And I do think, you know, as youknow, if you get through those
first few weeks, most people canget to kind of 21 days or 28
(21:04):
days, and that might be all theywant to do, and that's fine, you
know, but there is that momentumonce you start, you know, going
with it.
And, you know, that's where itgets interesting because a lot
of these.
Nutrient deficiencies don't justself resolve in kind of a couple
of days.
You know, some of them are oneweek, two weeks, some of them
are three months, you know, andsome areas are, you know, kind
(21:27):
of up to a year, you know, to,to actually rebound.
So by working on those andcontinuing to incorporate it,
that's where it can be reallyinteresting'cause you are
working with your own physiologyand biochemistry with it at the
same time as.
Taking apart all these beliefsthat we've held for so long, you
know, and, and rebalancingeverything.
Barry Condon (21:51):
Yeah, I mean, that was for me, the most powerful
part of, of, changing my,Relationship with alcohol was to
see it differently, tounderstand the science, to
understand that the, you know,the, the, the way the
neurotransmitters work and the,and the rebound as you call it.
That, that, that idea that, youknow, I, I, you know, initially
I drank'cause it was fun.
I drank to have fun and, and itwas fun for, for a long time.
(22:13):
It was fun.
And then, you know, you getresponsibilities.
Your, your life changes your.
Not out with friends as often,and you end up, you know, I
ended up, you know, drinkingmore than I should have been or
more than I wanted to plan to,at home.
And, and it became a, a sort ofthing that, you know, you had
more responsibility.
You had a mortgage, you had a, ajob, responsibilities.
(22:34):
And, and I was, you know,looking back, I realize I was
drinking because I was stressed.
I was drinking because I was,you know, feeling, you know,
under pressure.
and knowing now.
that actually, you know, it wassort of chicken and egg thing
really, because the, alcohol,like you said with the rebound,
it, it boosts all those feelingsof stress.
(22:55):
You know, it, as you said, thatyour, your relaxation,
receptors, the GABA receptorsare, are, are, are either closed
or I don't know exactly how, howthat that works, but it,
they're, they're, they're notfunctioning in the same way that
they, they
Caroline Sherlock (23:06):
Yeah.
Barry Condon (23:06):
be.
so you.
are left in a sort of situationwhere, you know, you're being
flooded with cortisol and, andall the sort of stress hormones
trying to fight off the, thealcohol, sedation effect.
and those last, you know, youknow, they last the whole day,
the next day.
and, and so it's, you know, you,you never quite get back to a
(23:27):
regular baseline'cause yourbody's thinking, well, I'm not
gonna bother.
Caroline Sherlock (23:30):
Yeah, totally.
Barry Condon (23:31):
the, the happy hormones, to a normal base level
because you're gonna, you'regonna flood me with, with
alcohol, which is gonna seteverything, you know, tip
everything the wrong direction.
And so yeah, understanding thatand thinking, oh gosh, you know,
so what I thought of as thesolution was actually part of
the problem, was a realmindblower.
but sugar, yeah, that one Ireally didn't expect.
(23:53):
And because,'cause I never, Isort of thought, you know, well,
I, I don't drink.
Cocktails and, you know, I justdrink wine and, and maybe the
odd beer and, and, and, and so Ithought, well, I mean, I you say
that it actually messes with thewhole, your whole sort of,
glucose system rather, it's not,not, not so much that alcohol or
wine is, is is full of sugar,it's just that it messes with,
(24:15):
or, or is it both That it messeswith the, the system as well.
Caroline Sherlock (24:19):
It is smooth.
It is both.
So it depends.
It depends what you're drinking,but yes, for sure.
So alcohol raises the bloodglucose level very, very, very
quickly.
And the problem is that it's,it's this, the compound when
it's broken down, it's theacetaldehyde.
which some people don't breakdown particularly well, but
that's very, very damaging tothe cells.
And so you can, this is why whenwe, you know, people, people who
(24:42):
drink, you know, are at morerisk of diabetes and, and, you
know, blood sugar dysregulationbecause the insulin that the
receptors on the cells justdon't work as well because they
become damaged over time and youmight not see that immediately.
But it just sits there in thebackground until it gets to the
point where your body can'tactually handle the glucose, you
(25:03):
know, very well at all.
so yes, that blood sugardysregulation is there, and the
other reason is, you know, your,your sleep is disrupted
significantly.
The, the REM sleep and sleep isjust when we detox, when we,
when we sort everything out.
But sleep is highly linked tothat.
Gut microbiome as well, which,regulates sugar levels.
And, you know, if you thinkabout it logically, anything
(25:26):
that we eat or drink goesthrough the digestive system.
And we know that alcohol reallyaffects the gut microbiome.
It makes the gut leaky, and itmakes it much harder for our
body to just regulate, you know,how we're feeling.
And, and if you have not got,you know, appropriate levels of
the other neurotransmitters ofserotonin, if your dopamine's
(25:46):
all over the place.
You know, because we're, youknow, looking for that drink,
that reward at the end of theday, if your GABA's off as well.
and many of the others, youknow, you become reliant on
that.
I guess that alcohol coming in.
Just that little burst ofenergy, that little kind of mood
up regulation as well, what Ilove, what I love what you're
talking about here is.
Justine Clark (26:06):
it, it compounds the idea that it's not our
fault.
So we know through Annie Grace'swork, alcohol's fault, not ours.
But what you are talking
Caroline Sherlock (26:14):
Talking
Justine Clark (26:14):
what I deeply
Caroline Sherlock (26:15):
deeply.
Justine Clark (26:16):
is that
Caroline Sherlock (26:16):
Is that
Justine Clark (26:17):
happening to us by biochemically.
Means that a, we may have adispo predisposition not to cope
with alcohol well, but moreover,we, when we are trying to
recover or from just from aday-to-day drinking, that our
bodies actually needs thealcohol just to feel,
Caroline Sherlock (26:35):
feel normal?
Justine Clark (26:36):
again.
we are
Caroline Sherlock (26:37):
We're running outta time.
Justine Clark (26:38):
Caroline, and I'm
Caroline Sherlock (26:39):
Caroline,
Justine Clark (26:39):
to hear, you'd answer our
Caroline Sherlock (26:41):
answer our last
Justine Clark (26:42):
is,
Caroline Sherlock (26:42):
is,
Justine Clark (26:43):
three
Caroline Sherlock (26:43):
in three words
Justine Clark (26:44):
more,
Caroline Sherlock (26:44):
more.
Justine Clark (26:45):
what,
Caroline Sherlock (26:46):
what,
Justine Clark (26:46):
biggest sort of takeaway
Caroline Sherlock (26:48):
takeaway about being
Justine Clark (26:49):
alcohol
Caroline Sherlock (26:50):
freedom?
Three words.
So, I, freedom, obviously, buteveryone says freedom, so I'm
not gonna, I'm not gonna do thatone, but my first is gratitude
and, I feel hugely, immenselygrateful.
That I have not got alcohol inmy life anymore.
You know, I could not behappier.
(27:11):
That for my, second half, youknow, of my life, that it feels
like a gift that I have a, asecond chance, you know, so I,
I'm so grateful to have foundAnnie Grace and.
The community and also be ableto do the work that I do and
have the background that I doto, to have done this.
So that would be the first one.
Gratitude.
(27:32):
Second one is alignment for mebecause I really feel that, you
know, I've always been veryopen.
I share whatever I talk about,whatever, you know, and what you
get is what you see with me, youknow, and I really feel so
aligned that I am, you know,100% genuinely walking my talk.
Now there is, you know, nohiding anything and that makes.
(27:54):
A huge difference.
Okay.
So, alignment.
And I think the third thingwould be, I feel it has given me
this sense of, mission and drivein that, you know, this is, this
is really what I, I wanna donow.
And I think it's a veryunderrepresented area because
it's not just that first month,one month, two months, three
(28:14):
months that we need to focus on.
There is a whole lifetime aheadof us where.
We can change the trajectory ofour lives and all of the things
that are associated withdrinking alcohol, whether or not
it is raised risk ofAlzheimer's, dementia, diabetes,
liver cancer, all of thesethings we can influence, you
(28:35):
know, our ability to deal withthem by upregulating certain
pathways, you know, and mentalhealth as well, or hormones.
All of these things that alcoholdisrupt.
Including liver function andthyroid function and sex
hormones, you know, and theneurotransmitters.
We can affect all of those andwe can positively influence our
ability to live long and healthyto, you know, I'm aiming for a
(28:58):
hundred or more.
You know, and I think once youhave.
Given up alcohol.
You know, I don't wanna be takendown by any of this stuff.
You know, we've done the hardwork and I don't think it's
acceptable to just kind of sithere.
I wanna make sure that my cellsare working properly.
you know, I want to make surethat my cognitive function is
there till the old age, and sothat none of the drinking that I
(29:20):
did is gonna affect that as faras I'm concerned.
So I'm very driven to share thatwith, as many people as I can.
It's kind of not just.
Give it up and okay, we aredone.
It's okay.
What about the damage that hasbeen done and how can we
mitigate that and actually howcan we make our lives and our
health better than, you know,even if we hadn't done that
(29:41):
drinking before?
And there's ways to do that, andthat's what I'm really
passionate about now.
So driven would absolutely be mylast word there.
Barry Condon (29:49):
That's brilliant.
and I think there'll be a lot ofpeople who, who want to know
more and want, want to.
I want you to help them.
so where can they find you?
Caroline Sherlock (29:56):
So they can find me on my website, which is
alcohol freedom coaching.com.
and go there and just, yeah,connect with me and find out
more.
Justine Clark (30:07):
Thanks so
Caroline Sherlock (30:08):
Thanks so much for being Caroline.
Justine Clark (30:09):
I mean, I
Caroline Sherlock (30:10):
I mean, I just love the depth
Justine Clark (30:12):
knowledge
Caroline Sherlock (30:12):
knowledge that you have and
Justine Clark (30:14):
worked with Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (30:15):
Caroline
Justine Clark (30:15):
in a previous life with, as a functional
health practitioner, and I can,can't recommend her, compassion
knowledge.
yeah, she's a font ofinformation and kindness.
So do reach out to Caroline
Caroline Sherlock (30:29):
Oh, thank you, Justine.
Barry Condon (30:30):
Caroline.
Caroline Sherlock (30:31):
Thank you both.
It's been so good talking toyou.
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