May 31, 2025 • 29 mins
We often feel we should have things under control, especially when it comes to our relationship with alcohol. But what if it's not about being broken, but about shifting your perspective? Today, our guest, Susan Stout, opens up about reframing her relationship with alcohol and how it led to profound feelings of joy and confidence.
Get ready to hear how small steps can lead to monumental change and how finding your true self is the ultimate freedom.
Susan Stout:
https://www.stoutconnectionscoaching.com
https://www.instagram.com/stoutconnectionscoaching/
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61563812266191
Our 30-day group programme:
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/aff-group
The podcast home page
https://podcast.alcoholfreedomfinders.com/
Justine Clark
https://justineclarktherapy.co.uk/
https://www.instagram.com/wellwithjustine/
Barry Condon
https://www.cleanlifecoaching.org/
https://www.instagram.com/clean.life.coaching/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-condon-577b85294/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Barry Condon (00:00):
This is alcohol Freedom finders.
We often feel we should havethings under control, especially
when it comes to ourrelationship with alcohol.
But what if it's not about beingbroken, but about shifting your
perspective?
Today, our guest, Susan Stout,opens up about reframing her
relationship with alcohol andhow it led to profound feelings
of joy and confidence.
(00:21):
Get ready to hear how smallsteps can lead to monumental
change and how finding your trueself is the ultimate freedom.
Justine Clark (00:30):
Welcome everybody.
I'm super excited today becausewe have Susan Stout with us
from.
Stout Connections Coaching andactually she's a fellow, this
Naked Mind coach and was withBarry and I on our journey a
couple of years ago.
So, so wonderful to have youwith us today.
Susan Stout (00:49):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm really excited to be herewith you guys.
this is such an honor.
Barry Condon (00:54):
Yeah, it's great to see you, Susan.
so why don't you take us backand let us know, what your
journey's been with, withalcohol and, and how you came to
find alcohol freedom.
Susan Stout (01:05):
Sure, sure.
Well, Well, I've I've beentrying to.
I'm trying to, improve myselffor most of my life, and so I've
known for a long time that.
I was drinking more than Iwanted to.
I didn't like the way it made mefeel.
Justine Clark (01:22):
and,
Susan Stout (01:22):
I quite surprised when, when, my efforts, efforts,
difficult.
a difficult.
time stopping.
I tried a lot of things and, so.
it kind of came to a head whenmy mom, my started.
started.
her journey with cognitivedecline, which morphed into
(01:43):
dementia and Alzheimer's.
And I was I.
that, a, I didn't want that samejourney, and b, that my health
was my own responsibility.
and and so kind of it kind ofkickstarted me to say you to,
time to get serious here with.
(02:04):
after my so that's kind of thatcatalyst.
the
Justine Clark (02:07):
Do you know?
I love that and I, I reallyresonate with that myself
because that whole idea of I toohave spent most of my life
trying to improve myself.
You know, I really strive tostrive to be the best version I
could of myself.
And I knew somewhere lurking inthe back of me that alcohol
wasn't serving me, but I justthought I needed to get better
(02:28):
at it.
You know, better at managing it.
And also, like you, I tried somany different things, you know,
I felt like I was a failurebecause it was one thing I
couldn't get good at.
So I really, I really totallyunderstand that.
so how did you overcome thatstruggle?
Well,
Susan Stout (02:45):
Well, first I'll just say a little bit that about
the struggle is that, is that,you know, you you know, I wasn't
adverse asking for help askingfor help.
lot of things.
I did that for, I did that for,I used to and so I joined a
couple program.
a couple programs'cause I quittwice, to, overcome And And I I
(03:07):
didn't feel ashamed.
In fact, I was really proud ofmyself of myself for for asking
for help, for help for quitting.
but when it came to came to,drinking alcohol There was and I
and I was afraid to ask for helpbecause really worried about.
worried about having anotherlabel, about.
(03:29):
being called an alcoholic andwhat that would mean, and, If I
was gonna have to find myselfthat way for the rest of my
letter.
of my life because I asked Sothat really helped me that
helped me back, to be honestwith you.
I didn't want that.
want that.
stigma.
So, So, So, slow down slowed meAnd down And and then and then I
(03:52):
I.
through some serendipitous,happenings, found the path, and
from this naked mind and joinedthat and that program, that
found ways to change my beliefsand.
And, overcome this habit thatwas no longer serving me.
Barry Condon (04:12):
Brilliant.
And so and so, what was the,what was the difference then?
What, what, what was differentabout the, the approach in the
path than other ways you'dlooked at it before.
Susan Stout (04:24):
The well was the big one to, to put down shame,
down the down the shame guiltand the and.
and that was probably one of wasprobably one of the hardest was
was myself some self compassion.
compassion.
'cause you know, I'm big onbeing for myself.
for So So, for me to So for mecome around to the belief that
(04:46):
it wasn't my anymore wasn't mywas really was really a big
like, of course it's my fault.
I'm the one who's.
the one who's.
ingesting the liquid, but.
After After lots of work andthe, in in the program, I came
program, to see that, see that,addictive an substance substance
my body my body are brain inways in ways that the ubstance,
(05:09):
the substance was intended forme to react and that is to drink
And so And after so after Ilearned.
As a lot of that well, thenwell, then I learned that
learned that it wasn't fault.
my Yes.
Responsibility.
now I Now I, Now I.
on that, with that mind frame.
Justine Clark (05:31):
yeah, I, I, I hear you.
I was talking about this withBarry yesterday about, for those
of us that have given alcohol,lots of jobs to do in our lives,
it's almost like.
You know when you blow up abirthday balloon, it starts off
this nice little shape and thenyou blow it up really big for
the party and then you let itout.
You wanna reuse it again, or youdidn't blow it up quite right.
It never goes back to that nicelittle shape ever again.
(05:53):
And I feel for those of us thathave given alcohol lots and lots
and lots of jobs to do.
that balloon never goes back to,its its original shape.
So each time we try and stopdrinking and then go back and
just have one, it's like theballoon's only got a tiny bit of
air in it.
It needs way more air in it tothen inflate in the same way.
That's how I have seen, sothat's the analogy I use for,
(06:16):
for, for alcohol for me, and Idon't believe it's the same for
everybody.
I, I, I think that some peoplewho never blew up their balloon
too big in the first place,still have a nice elastic
balloon.
what, let's just, let's justexplore that a little bit
further.
what do you feel now about yourrelationship with alcohol going
forward?
Susan Stout (06:39):
I have not.
I have I have.
to drink, and it's such a longnon Mm.
it, it doesn't.
doesn't cross crossed my mind.
You know, You know, once in a,In a, moon do something that I
haven't done I before, before,since I've been drinking or it's
not like so it's not familiar,and I'll be like, oh, I usually
(07:02):
have a beer.
have a beer.
with this.
Or I, a glass of wine would gonice.
And I'm like, oh, isn't that afunny, thought that happened to
pop in there.
it's surprising more than morethan anything.
I do I do find, find, that Idon't care, don't I don't care.
other people I I I do find thatmy tolerance for hanging around
(07:25):
people who are drinking for along period of time is a lot
more limited.
So, yeah.
It's the.
you You know, it's okay okay forthe first few hours.
And then had enough, so, so, AndJust like gratitude just like
gratitude to, to be able to say,to be able to see you I don't
feel I, feel the anymore, hereand I've What?
(07:46):
I've I could get Interaction.
I hope I've given you some andlet's meet up again.
So, yeah, it's just, it's just alot of gratitude.
Yeah.
Barry Condon (07:56):
Great.
And I, yeah, I, I, you weretalking about smoking and I, I,
Years.
Yeah.
When I was in my twenties, I, Ilived, I did five winters living
in a ski resort.
And, back in those days, the,the, the, the chairlifts were
very slow and, it was plenty oftime to have a cigarette.
And so I used to nearly alwayshave a cigarette on the, on the,
on the chairlift.
And so now when I go backskiing, you know, there's
(08:17):
certain chair, certain places,certain chairlifts that you
think.
You know, and I, I don't thinkabout smoking.
I really did, really don't want,you know, I hate smoking now,
and I, oh God, no, nothing aboutit.
But you do have those situationsthat it's something that, that
it with and you haven't beenthrough that without it, enough
times, then you know, you do getthat, that trigger.
(08:38):
and it's the same with, samewith drinking.
And so it, it, it's kind of thefrustrating part once you sort
of to the point where you think,actually, no, alcohol's not
serving me anymore.
And, you know, I don't need todo it every day.
And so you get to a situationwhere maybe you are, you're not
drinking at home anymore, and,and, and that feels fine, but
then you can get surprised by abirthday party and, or, or, or a
(08:58):
wedding or, or a situation.
or just, just a, a, a way youfeel, and you, you, it's been
your go-to in those situations.
And, and, yeah, that it, allthose little situations need to
be.
Unwound and, and rewired.
Yeah.
What's, what do I do in thissituation?
Is there a different way toapproach this?
And, and would there be a, yeah,another way to, to, to enjoy
(09:19):
this situation.
Susan Stout (09:21):
Yeah.
,If you're looking to take backcontrol of your drinking, why
don't you join our AlcoholFreedom Finders 30 day group
program.
It's a great place to start.
Because we approach it as anexperiment, rather than a
challenge.
Whereas, as well as getting agreat detox, you learn the
(09:41):
science and the psychology aboutwhy you're drunk in the first
place.
So whether you want to stopaltogether, or just become a
more mindful and moderatedrinker, why don't you give it a
crack?
Use the link in the show notesto sign up to our next 30 day
program, and you won't regretit.
Because no one ever woke up inthe morning and said, I wish I'd
(10:02):
had more to drink last night,did they?
Barry Condon (10:05):
In your journey?
through the path, were theretimes that you struggled?
Did you just sign up and,immediately, see the light and,
and, and, and find it easy?
Or, or you know, what, what wasthe struggle through that,
period of being on the path?
Susan Stout (10:19):
you know, I think it was, I think was, was getting
ready I.
ready I joined the path.
the path.
I think, think I think quittingI drinking was the last thing I
needed to do, I needed to do,that sense that my brain was
preparing.
My brain was preparing priorbecause, you I.
'cause I had I some goodpractice practice, so, so, I was
(10:41):
prepared so.
whole journey through the path.
It, especially in retrospect, itfeels like it was quite
seamless.
You know, I took some time, IPause where I stopped trying to
stop to and and, and then.
and and.
just learning how to rewire mybrain was so beneficial,
(11:04):
especially the rewiring theparts mentioned before.
before, just admitting that thatI was overdrinking over myself
myself such a big deal.
such Um, Um, and, And I thinkthat, think that, you know, we
all have our own.
we all have our backstories,but, my father, drank and was
(11:30):
labeled an So, So, this.
this background story story.
that I shouldn't be like him.
And, my stepfather didn't speakhighly of alcoholics, so it was
doubly reinforced that Ishouldn't So again, just getting
by my whole way way about whatwhat that word means, I, I think
(11:55):
was really instrumental in my,in my.
Progress forward.
and then I also.
then I Also to think aboutopened up to the fact that that.
everyone, everyone thinks aboutthe word the same about, do.
people some people, think wordof the word as as, oh.
(12:15):
some people who have gonethrough some things some things
who are, a lot who life.
more life experience, who knowsome more things than, than, do.
than I so And so.
Even just even just my.
my, my.
idea about that word reallyhelped propel me forward as
well.
Justine Clark (12:34):
Yeah, I really hear you on this label and this
word alcoholic because when wegive up smoking or when we're a
smoker, no one calls us a smokeaholic.
so alcoholic does just strip, ifyou, what image do you have in
your mind as soon as you sayalcoholic?
I mean, I, I can't undo theimage of the park bench in the
(12:57):
brown paper bag and the homelessperson, you know.
It's just so there.
And if you've got, formativefigures reinforcing seriously
negative beliefs around thatlabel, then it's gonna make it
even bigger and bigger.
So, combine that with the, theshame of being someone who wants
to improve herself.
(13:18):
There's just this massive, whatwe call cognitive dis
dissonance, which is one part ofyou telling you, you know.
I need to be this amazing personthat's improving.
And on the other hand, going,maybe I'm this terrible thing,
this alcoholic.
And the easiest way to deal withit to start with is, is to
ignore it.
(13:38):
So it's no surprise that thestats say that, the average
person stopping alcohol trieseight to 10 times before they're
successful.
So what I'm, what did I wantedto ask you about from what you
just said was you said that youdid the, the pause, so just
people won't know what the pauseis.
(13:59):
So maybe just speak to that andtell us what about the pause
was, was useful for you in termsof what we've been talking
about.
Susan Stout (14:06):
Oh Yeah, yeah.
well, well the pause is when youstop trying to stop to To the,
so instead of, instead of,instead trying willpower to
willpower and way through my oror Or instead of, of, trying
parameters to put parametersmyself, myself up for not
(14:28):
meeting those parameters.
stopped.
I stopped.
said, okay, I just said, okay,let's just carry on the way I'm
on, on.
I'm but instead but instead bekind be and.
and observe.
yeah.
So I I, find I need, drink wannaDrink work.
after work.
(14:49):
Oh, what's that all about?
it's it's I think It's, gonnagimme it's some relief.
some relief.
from my stress or I think it'sgonna help me socialize or I
think it's gonna help.
it's gonna help.
me do these things.
And so there just Just toobserve why why why I.
was I was and then and tryingobserve it was how this me feel.
(15:09):
that's what I really when Iseeing was seeing that actually,
I actually don't even Like thislike it taste it kind of
terrible.
of And after the first one, one.
never get that buzz that I'mchasing.
I'm And And it never feels goodand I really don't it's it.
And that's I.
what I.
discovered is I really don'tlike this whole circus.
(15:33):
So then it was way easier tostop it.
Yeah,
Barry Condon (15:38):
that's good.
I mean, that, that's sort of, wesort of talk about this sort of
just get curious and, and be, becurious about, try and look at
it sideways and think, you know,is, is it giving me what I, what
I, what I expected?
What, what, what, what themarketing was telling me, what,
what society, you know, does itall make sense?
Is it, is it perhaps anillusion?
Can you look at it slightlydifferently and without the.
The, the pressure of not doingit, you allow it to happen.
(16:01):
You try and take the shame away,which I think, you know, for you
and for me, you know, was, was abig deal.
'cause you sort of feel like,you know, I should be in control
and I should be able to do it.
And all these other people are,are, I've got it under control
and they're being responsibleand, and we're supposed to be
responsible.
And, I think once you sort ofstart to see alcohol as.
The source of the, the, the, theproblem and not you.
(16:23):
And, and, you know, it's just,it's an addictive thing.
Like a cigarette, like cocaine,like, you know, any other kind
of addictive behavior or, or, orsubstance.
and then you just allow it tosort of, you know, once you sort
of understand what it is andwhat it's actually doing to you
and what it's actually givingyou, it's, it's easier to, to,
(16:44):
see it for what it is.
And, and, and, And it takes theshine off it, and then it makes
it easier to then, you know.
So what comes after the pause?
I mean, how, how long, how longdid you, did you go through this
for what, what comes next,
Susan Stout (16:56):
in the yeah, and then I just, I just, said you
know, to, set a goal to to tryto try.
period period, of time, I thinkit was and I decided that that I
wanted, I I wanted it, a monthto see if And so I did, And, so
and and oh yeah, well, I just.
(17:17):
I'll just go a little bitlonger.
And then I just.
I.
lengthening and lengthening andthen before you know it, I'm
like, I don't know if I'm gonnadrink again.
resistance in me saying, in meme.
don't wanna say I never say I'mnever drinking again.
feel better, feel good.
so I didn't, I just said, I'mnot drinking right now and I
don't need it, and it doesn'tserve me.
(17:38):
And I feel better bef because ofit.
Now I am, I don't think, I stillsay I'm never I just I just.
say that not right now, and thatworks for me.
So I guess we all do it a littlebit differently, you know, you
You know, I would never, I, I,this up this.
feeling of.
(17:59):
of.
being alive and hopeful and,joyful for the substitute of,
Something was helpful thatwasn't so, Yeah.
and I, I guess one more thingthat I really learned really
learned process the Process ofthe the whole was that journey
(18:20):
was actually.
I'm I'm actually not broken.
not this.
this Broken thing that that justthis whole was this beautiful
human being human being that,that, was trying to do the best
I could Do the best I could butand.
and.
now now I can.
and now I I now I can have moregrace and compassion for myself
(18:44):
for way I did behave.
And, that's okay because I didthe best I could.
So.
Justine Clark (18:51):
You've just answered the question I was
gonna ask you, which was, what'sthe most surprising thing about
being an alcohol freedom finder?
And that's so true, isn't it?
That ultimately we think it'sabout alcohol, but it's actually
not about alcohol at all.
It's about coming back to aplace of self-compassion and.
one of our coaches always says,because human, you know, that's
(19:13):
why we do, that's why we makemistakes because we're human.
And to have that compassion isjust, it's such a relief, isn't
it?
It's such a relief.
so what would you say to, tosomebody else who has maybe not
yet done the pause, but hastried a few times?
what would you say to somebodyelse?
that was trying to reframe theirrelationship with alcohol, what
(19:37):
advice would you give them?
Susan Stout (19:39):
I would say don't agree to reach out for help
reach for however that thatbecause, because, It's, it's,
can be, it, a difficult journeyjourney and there's there's such
power and in getting gettinghelp and, and, you still have to
(20:02):
do, You still have to do, workwilling and be open, and be but
the faster you can the fasteryou can.
better you'll feel.
And I, that's what I would'vetold myself too, is don't let,
don't let this, preconceivedidea that you have hold you
back.
Because just to swing it back alittle bit to my father who over
(20:22):
drank and was called analcoholic, I, I know that he was
a loving and beautiful humanbeing And he, he loved us.
he, so I don't define him bythat and.
If he would've had theopportunity to get help, imagine
what that would've been for him.
So, yeah.
I.
Barry Condon (20:41):
Yeah, that's really good advice.
I mean, I think, and that it,it, it comes a lot back to, to
the shame and also to the waythat the society sets us up to,
to.
To feel as if it's, it'ssomething that we should be able
to do and that, and, and that,that, that, you know, the drink
responsibly again.
and, and so we're, we're, youknow, we look at other people
and think, oh, they've got itall under control, and, and why
(21:03):
haven't we?
And you know, if we'restruggling, then we need to.
Need to keep it quiet and, and,and, and you know, like you're
saying, a white knuckle it.
And, and, and I think, you know,we, it's, it's like you said,
it's not, it's not our fault,you know, it's, it's an
addictive substance.
And, and if you use it in enoughof those scenarios and it
becomes a sort of, go-to, crutchor, or, or, you know, treat or
(21:23):
whatever, whatever it means toyou, then it's gonna worm its
way in.
And, you know, some people itworms its way in faster than
others.
But, but, yeah, and like yousaid, it, it, it's, it's not
your fault, but it is yourresponsibility.
And, and that doesn't mean youhave to do it all on your own.
It, it just means, you know,you, you know, just put your
hand up and say, I'm strugglinghere.
Or, you know, find a book, finda a group, find a, a, a a, you
(21:45):
know, a podcast for instance.
You know, just, you know, andfind a community that, that,
that will, that you resonatewith.
that, that, You know, it, itreally does help.
you know, just saying it outloud to yourself or Yeah, just
saying it in the mirror.
Just, you know, actually I needto do something about this, you
know?
Oh, it, it can feel like a, abit of a weight off your
shoulders so you can feel like,okay, yeah, okay, I've said it
(22:05):
now.
Then, you know, what's the nextstep?
And just try and think of, youknow, what, what, what step
could I do, that would take mein the direction I want?
I want to go in, rather thansort of feeling crippled by the,
the, the, the fear of, you know,what might, what might people
think or, shoulding yourselfinto sort of like, I should be
able to do it, but
Susan Stout (22:22):
I love that.
I love that very, and I.
that, Barry.
Also makes me think of, alsomakes how how, as we think know,
sometimes when we're comparingourselves to the ourselves to
outside people that outsideouter, outer facing, outer
facing version of people, weinside.
insides, and we think, oh gosh,here I am, I'm a wreck.
(22:42):
And, and look at them.
They look so, and we just neverknow what other people And, you
through.
know.
you know, you we all don't havemechanisms, whether sugar or
sugar or whatever, and, and, andnot necessary to have shame.
have the shame.
it's just so just so liberatingto get your confidence back back
(23:03):
you once you, can tackle that,So, so that I, I love that that
we, comparison to others is justnot, is just not, helpful.
Justine Clark (23:10):
and, and also not just comparison to others.
Yeah.
but comparison, I'm justthinking from what you were
saying earlier about, our relatthinking about your dad, what
you said about him being thisloving, kind human.
I, I, I pride myself on being awellbeing therapist that's
really there for people.
And I've always been an empath.
My mother was an empath.
(23:30):
It really is a very strongfeature in my personality.
And so when, when I was out anight out six years ago and
somebody said to me.
I'm not gonna go out with youagain.
If you're drinking, yourpersonality changes and you're
not a very nice person.
It's so horrifying.
'cause I didn't think that, thatthis was about personality
change.
(23:51):
I didn't think that this wasabout, actually, I'm not a
vulnerable, authentic version ofmyself.
I'm a different version ofmyself.
I never even factored in thatpart of alcohol when we were,
were growing up and drinking.
I never thought at all for asecond that it would, that it
would.
Change my personality and that Iwould be somebody that instead
(24:11):
of being seen as a, a loving andkind and wonderful mother from
being someone that my daughtersaid when she was about 10, oh
mum, mummy, promise you won'tdrink when I grow up and get
married.
I,
Susan Stout (24:23):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (24:24):
so I was just wondering what, you know, what
you would say, new adventures,experiences, feelings in
yourself that you have now that.
You are not your father, and wecan all see your loving, kind,
generous self.
What, how does that come up foryou?
I.
Susan Stout (24:47):
I think it's just finding.
finding my finding.
does make me tick and and whatis important me, And having the
confidence to explore itfurther.
yeah, and the confidence toconfidence to myself into blame
(25:10):
everything everything that on onwhat my prior behavior was.
Now I can, if something happens,I can, I can look at that.
I can I can, independently andbe, oh.
This happened, and I Instead ofalways having this of thing
that's this.
that's wrong with me.
so And so yeah, the, theconfidence was the biggest
(25:34):
confidence.
Really?
Yeah.
Barry Condon (25:39):
And maybe it's a good time to ask those that ask
the, the question we askeverybody that at the, the.
Three words that describe, thatbest describe your, journey to
what your what finding freedomfrom alcohol means to you.
Susan Stout (25:53):
I think, I I think, hope is big in there, that
future the future is, hopefulinstead of this heavy.
how can I manage I now?
now it's, oh, what is out there?
And so that's a big one.
and right beside like that is isjoy now now I didn't realize
(26:16):
that.
realize that.
point for joy had been justknocked down so low.
I.
as I was numbing out.
And coping and doing all thethings.
I didn't realize that alcoholwas also stealing my everyday
joy.
I went hiking with my familyrecently and I was flooded with
(26:38):
Being in the sunshine and beingwith them, and them, and I'm
like, like, it's just, I just,joy.
It's joy huge and It's abundant.
and the last thing is.
the last thing is, connection.
Because because.
Because is really is really themagic of life, is finding the
(26:59):
connections to myself to myselfand to other people.
and so yeah, I think those aremy three words.
I.
Justine Clark (27:09):
I couldn't agree more.
And the ability to show up foryourself and show up for others,
and I'm sure it just helps yourcoaching business go from
strength to strength.
So if people are looking to,find out more about your
coaching or, how you might beable to help them, what should
they do?
Susan?
(27:29):
I'm
Susan Stout (27:30):
I'm I'm on social media, media, on Facebook and
Instagram my business is StoutCoaching, coaching, website is
there as well there as well.com.
Just, yeah, Just, look me up andlet's connect let's and.
and.
you don't have to do this alone.
So, yeah, I'd love to read, I'dlove to connect with you.
Barry Condon (27:53):
That's brilliant, Susan.
Yeah, I mean, I love, I lovethat those three words were
brilliant.
You know, that, that joy and,and connection.
I, I really particularlyresonate with that idea that,
that, you know, it was the, mybiggest surprise was, you know,
I thought that alcohol was, wasthe only part of my day that was
giving me joy.
But it turns out, you know, itgave it back a little bit at the
end of the day, but actuallywhen he'd take it away.
(28:15):
your, like you said, your, your,your, your set point or your
baseline rises and you canactually enjoy the rest of the
day.
And it's not like get throughthe day so you can have a drink
at the end of it.
It's, it's actually you canenjoy the whole day.
And, and yeah.
And getting back into thatconnection as well is, you know,
that, you know, it, it's, is it,Johan Hari, talks about the, the
(28:36):
connection being the, theopposite of addiction and, it,
it, it really is, you know, anamazing thing.
Justine Clark (28:42):
And one last thing I just realized, it's like
when you start to have thatconnection, it's like your
little balloon.
Rather than being blown up withthe air, it gets blown up with
helium.
It's this, it's this kind ofuplifting feeling, right?
So yeah, we get helium balloonsinstead.
Yes.
Susan Stout (29:02):
Yes.
Or
Justine Clark (29:03):
Yeah, exactly.
We get huff and gas in ourballoons instead.
Literally.
I love that so much.
Thanks so much, Susan.
Thank you guys.
Susan Stout (29:13):
Thank you guys.
It's been lovely be with you
This is alcohol Freedom finders.
We often feel we should havethings under control, especially
when it comes to ourrelationship with alcohol.
But what if it's not about beingbroken, but about shifting your
perspective?
Today, our guest, Susan Stout,opens up about reframing her
relationship with alcohol andhow it led to profound feelings
of joy and confidence.
(00:21):
Get ready to hear how smallsteps can lead to monumental
change and how finding your trueself is the ultimate freedom.
Justine Clark (00:30):
Welcome everybody.
I'm super excited today becausewe have Susan Stout with us
from.
Stout Connections Coaching andactually she's a fellow, this
Naked Mind coach and was withBarry and I on our journey a
couple of years ago.
So, so wonderful to have youwith us today.
Susan Stout (00:49):
Oh, thank you so much.
I'm really excited to be herewith you guys.
this is such an honor.
Barry Condon (00:54):
Yeah, it's great to see you, Susan.
so why don't you take us backand let us know, what your
journey's been with, withalcohol and, and how you came to
find alcohol freedom.
Susan Stout (01:05):
Sure, sure.
Well, Well, I've I've beentrying to.
I'm trying to, improve myselffor most of my life, and so I've
known for a long time that.
I was drinking more than Iwanted to.
I didn't like the way it made mefeel.
Justine Clark (01:22):
and,
Susan Stout (01:22):
I quite surprised when, when, my efforts, efforts,
difficult.
a difficult.
time stopping.
I tried a lot of things and, so.
it kind of came to a head whenmy mom, my started.
started.
her journey with cognitivedecline, which morphed into
(01:43):
dementia and Alzheimer's.
And I was I.
that, a, I didn't want that samejourney, and b, that my health
was my own responsibility.
and and so kind of it kind ofkickstarted me to say you to,
time to get serious here with.
(02:04):
after my so that's kind of thatcatalyst.
the
Justine Clark (02:07):
Do you know?
I love that and I, I reallyresonate with that myself
because that whole idea of I toohave spent most of my life
trying to improve myself.
You know, I really strive tostrive to be the best version I
could of myself.
And I knew somewhere lurking inthe back of me that alcohol
wasn't serving me, but I justthought I needed to get better
(02:28):
at it.
You know, better at managing it.
And also, like you, I tried somany different things, you know,
I felt like I was a failurebecause it was one thing I
couldn't get good at.
So I really, I really totallyunderstand that.
so how did you overcome thatstruggle?
Well,
Susan Stout (02:45):
Well, first I'll just say a little bit that about
the struggle is that, is that,you know, you you know, I wasn't
adverse asking for help askingfor help.
lot of things.
I did that for, I did that for,I used to and so I joined a
couple program.
a couple programs'cause I quittwice, to, overcome And And I I
(03:07):
didn't feel ashamed.
In fact, I was really proud ofmyself of myself for for asking
for help, for help for quitting.
but when it came to came to,drinking alcohol There was and I
and I was afraid to ask for helpbecause really worried about.
worried about having anotherlabel, about.
(03:29):
being called an alcoholic andwhat that would mean, and, If I
was gonna have to find myselfthat way for the rest of my
letter.
of my life because I asked Sothat really helped me that
helped me back, to be honestwith you.
I didn't want that.
want that.
stigma.
So, So, So, slow down slowed meAnd down And and then and then I
(03:52):
I.
through some serendipitous,happenings, found the path, and
from this naked mind and joinedthat and that program, that
found ways to change my beliefsand.
And, overcome this habit thatwas no longer serving me.
Barry Condon (04:12):
Brilliant.
And so and so, what was the,what was the difference then?
What, what, what was differentabout the, the approach in the
path than other ways you'dlooked at it before.
Susan Stout (04:24):
The well was the big one to, to put down shame,
down the down the shame guiltand the and.
and that was probably one of wasprobably one of the hardest was
was myself some self compassion.
compassion.
'cause you know, I'm big onbeing for myself.
for So So, for me to So for mecome around to the belief that
(04:46):
it wasn't my anymore wasn't mywas really was really a big
like, of course it's my fault.
I'm the one who's.
the one who's.
ingesting the liquid, but.
After After lots of work andthe, in in the program, I came
program, to see that, see that,addictive an substance substance
my body my body are brain inways in ways that the ubstance,
(05:09):
the substance was intended forme to react and that is to drink
And so And after so after Ilearned.
As a lot of that well, thenwell, then I learned that
learned that it wasn't fault.
my Yes.
Responsibility.
now I Now I, Now I.
on that, with that mind frame.
Justine Clark (05:31):
yeah, I, I, I hear you.
I was talking about this withBarry yesterday about, for those
of us that have given alcohol,lots of jobs to do in our lives,
it's almost like.
You know when you blow up abirthday balloon, it starts off
this nice little shape and thenyou blow it up really big for
the party and then you let itout.
You wanna reuse it again, or youdidn't blow it up quite right.
It never goes back to that nicelittle shape ever again.
(05:53):
And I feel for those of us thathave given alcohol lots and lots
and lots of jobs to do.
that balloon never goes back to,its its original shape.
So each time we try and stopdrinking and then go back and
just have one, it's like theballoon's only got a tiny bit of
air in it.
It needs way more air in it tothen inflate in the same way.
That's how I have seen, sothat's the analogy I use for,
(06:16):
for, for alcohol for me, and Idon't believe it's the same for
everybody.
I, I, I think that some peoplewho never blew up their balloon
too big in the first place,still have a nice elastic
balloon.
what, let's just, let's justexplore that a little bit
further.
what do you feel now about yourrelationship with alcohol going
forward?
Susan Stout (06:39):
I have not.
I have I have.
to drink, and it's such a longnon Mm.
it, it doesn't.
doesn't cross crossed my mind.
You know, You know, once in a,In a, moon do something that I
haven't done I before, before,since I've been drinking or it's
not like so it's not familiar,and I'll be like, oh, I usually
(07:02):
have a beer.
have a beer.
with this.
Or I, a glass of wine would gonice.
And I'm like, oh, isn't that afunny, thought that happened to
pop in there.
it's surprising more than morethan anything.
I do I do find, find, that Idon't care, don't I don't care.
other people I I I do find thatmy tolerance for hanging around
(07:25):
people who are drinking for along period of time is a lot
more limited.
So, yeah.
It's the.
you You know, it's okay okay forthe first few hours.
And then had enough, so, so, AndJust like gratitude just like
gratitude to, to be able to say,to be able to see you I don't
feel I, feel the anymore, hereand I've What?
(07:46):
I've I could get Interaction.
I hope I've given you some andlet's meet up again.
So, yeah, it's just, it's just alot of gratitude.
Yeah.
Barry Condon (07:56):
Great.
And I, yeah, I, I, you weretalking about smoking and I, I,
Years.
Yeah.
When I was in my twenties, I, Ilived, I did five winters living
in a ski resort.
And, back in those days, the,the, the, the chairlifts were
very slow and, it was plenty oftime to have a cigarette.
And so I used to nearly alwayshave a cigarette on the, on the,
on the chairlift.
And so now when I go backskiing, you know, there's
(08:17):
certain chair, certain places,certain chairlifts that you
think.
You know, and I, I don't thinkabout smoking.
I really did, really don't want,you know, I hate smoking now,
and I, oh God, no, nothing aboutit.
But you do have those situationsthat it's something that, that
it with and you haven't beenthrough that without it, enough
times, then you know, you do getthat, that trigger.
(08:38):
and it's the same with, samewith drinking.
And so it, it, it's kind of thefrustrating part once you sort
of to the point where you think,actually, no, alcohol's not
serving me anymore.
And, you know, I don't need todo it every day.
And so you get to a situationwhere maybe you are, you're not
drinking at home anymore, and,and, and that feels fine, but
then you can get surprised by abirthday party and, or, or, or a
(08:58):
wedding or, or a situation.
or just, just a, a, a way youfeel, and you, you, it's been
your go-to in those situations.
And, and, yeah, that it, allthose little situations need to
be.
Unwound and, and rewired.
Yeah.
What's, what do I do in thissituation?
Is there a different way toapproach this?
And, and would there be a, yeah,another way to, to, to enjoy
(09:19):
this situation.
Susan Stout (09:21):
Yeah.
,If you're looking to take backcontrol of your drinking, why
don't you join our AlcoholFreedom Finders 30 day group
program.
It's a great place to start.
Because we approach it as anexperiment, rather than a
challenge.
Whereas, as well as getting agreat detox, you learn the
(09:41):
science and the psychology aboutwhy you're drunk in the first
place.
So whether you want to stopaltogether, or just become a
more mindful and moderatedrinker, why don't you give it a
crack?
Use the link in the show notesto sign up to our next 30 day
program, and you won't regretit.
Because no one ever woke up inthe morning and said, I wish I'd
(10:02):
had more to drink last night,did they?
Barry Condon (10:05):
In your journey?
through the path, were theretimes that you struggled?
Did you just sign up and,immediately, see the light and,
and, and, and find it easy?
Or, or you know, what, what wasthe struggle through that,
period of being on the path?
Susan Stout (10:19):
you know, I think it was, I think was, was getting
ready I.
ready I joined the path.
the path.
I think, think I think quittingI drinking was the last thing I
needed to do, I needed to do,that sense that my brain was
preparing.
My brain was preparing priorbecause, you I.
'cause I had I some goodpractice practice, so, so, I was
(10:41):
prepared so.
whole journey through the path.
It, especially in retrospect, itfeels like it was quite
seamless.
You know, I took some time, IPause where I stopped trying to
stop to and and, and then.
and and.
just learning how to rewire mybrain was so beneficial,
(11:04):
especially the rewiring theparts mentioned before.
before, just admitting that thatI was overdrinking over myself
myself such a big deal.
such Um, Um, and, And I thinkthat, think that, you know, we
all have our own.
we all have our backstories,but, my father, drank and was
(11:30):
labeled an So, So, this.
this background story story.
that I shouldn't be like him.
And, my stepfather didn't speakhighly of alcoholics, so it was
doubly reinforced that Ishouldn't So again, just getting
by my whole way way about whatwhat that word means, I, I think
(11:55):
was really instrumental in my,in my.
Progress forward.
and then I also.
then I Also to think aboutopened up to the fact that that.
everyone, everyone thinks aboutthe word the same about, do.
people some people, think wordof the word as as, oh.
(12:15):
some people who have gonethrough some things some things
who are, a lot who life.
more life experience, who knowsome more things than, than, do.
than I so And so.
Even just even just my.
my, my.
idea about that word reallyhelped propel me forward as
well.
Justine Clark (12:34):
Yeah, I really hear you on this label and this
word alcoholic because when wegive up smoking or when we're a
smoker, no one calls us a smokeaholic.
so alcoholic does just strip, ifyou, what image do you have in
your mind as soon as you sayalcoholic?
I mean, I, I can't undo theimage of the park bench in the
(12:57):
brown paper bag and the homelessperson, you know.
It's just so there.
And if you've got, formativefigures reinforcing seriously
negative beliefs around thatlabel, then it's gonna make it
even bigger and bigger.
So, combine that with the, theshame of being someone who wants
to improve herself.
(13:18):
There's just this massive, whatwe call cognitive dis
dissonance, which is one part ofyou telling you, you know.
I need to be this amazing personthat's improving.
And on the other hand, going,maybe I'm this terrible thing,
this alcoholic.
And the easiest way to deal withit to start with is, is to
ignore it.
(13:38):
So it's no surprise that thestats say that, the average
person stopping alcohol trieseight to 10 times before they're
successful.
So what I'm, what did I wantedto ask you about from what you
just said was you said that youdid the, the pause, so just
people won't know what the pauseis.
(13:59):
So maybe just speak to that andtell us what about the pause
was, was useful for you in termsof what we've been talking
about.
Susan Stout (14:06):
Oh Yeah, yeah.
well, well the pause is when youstop trying to stop to To the,
so instead of, instead of,instead trying willpower to
willpower and way through my oror Or instead of, of, trying
parameters to put parametersmyself, myself up for not
(14:28):
meeting those parameters.
stopped.
I stopped.
said, okay, I just said, okay,let's just carry on the way I'm
on, on.
I'm but instead but instead bekind be and.
and observe.
yeah.
So I I, find I need, drink wannaDrink work.
after work.
(14:49):
Oh, what's that all about?
it's it's I think It's, gonnagimme it's some relief.
some relief.
from my stress or I think it'sgonna help me socialize or I
think it's gonna help.
it's gonna help.
me do these things.
And so there just Just toobserve why why why I.
was I was and then and tryingobserve it was how this me feel.
(15:09):
that's what I really when Iseeing was seeing that actually,
I actually don't even Like thislike it taste it kind of
terrible.
of And after the first one, one.
never get that buzz that I'mchasing.
I'm And And it never feels goodand I really don't it's it.
And that's I.
what I.
discovered is I really don'tlike this whole circus.
(15:33):
So then it was way easier tostop it.
Yeah,
Barry Condon (15:38):
that's good.
I mean, that, that's sort of, wesort of talk about this sort of
just get curious and, and be, becurious about, try and look at
it sideways and think, you know,is, is it giving me what I, what
I, what I expected?
What, what, what, what themarketing was telling me, what,
what society, you know, does itall make sense?
Is it, is it perhaps anillusion?
Can you look at it slightlydifferently and without the.
The, the pressure of not doingit, you allow it to happen.
(16:01):
You try and take the shame away,which I think, you know, for you
and for me, you know, was, was abig deal.
'cause you sort of feel like,you know, I should be in control
and I should be able to do it.
And all these other people are,are, I've got it under control
and they're being responsibleand, and we're supposed to be
responsible.
And, I think once you sort ofstart to see alcohol as.
The source of the, the, the, theproblem and not you.
(16:23):
And, and, you know, it's just,it's an addictive thing.
Like a cigarette, like cocaine,like, you know, any other kind
of addictive behavior or, or, orsubstance.
and then you just allow it tosort of, you know, once you sort
of understand what it is andwhat it's actually doing to you
and what it's actually givingyou, it's, it's easier to, to,
(16:44):
see it for what it is.
And, and, and, And it takes theshine off it, and then it makes
it easier to then, you know.
So what comes after the pause?
I mean, how, how long, how longdid you, did you go through this
for what, what comes next,
Susan Stout (16:56):
in the yeah, and then I just, I just, said you
know, to, set a goal to to tryto try.
period period, of time, I thinkit was and I decided that that I
wanted, I I wanted it, a monthto see if And so I did, And, so
and and oh yeah, well, I just.
(17:17):
I'll just go a little bitlonger.
And then I just.
I.
lengthening and lengthening andthen before you know it, I'm
like, I don't know if I'm gonnadrink again.
resistance in me saying, in meme.
don't wanna say I never say I'mnever drinking again.
feel better, feel good.
so I didn't, I just said, I'mnot drinking right now and I
don't need it, and it doesn'tserve me.
(17:38):
And I feel better bef because ofit.
Now I am, I don't think, I stillsay I'm never I just I just.
say that not right now, and thatworks for me.
So I guess we all do it a littlebit differently, you know, you
You know, I would never, I, I,this up this.
feeling of.
(17:59):
of.
being alive and hopeful and,joyful for the substitute of,
Something was helpful thatwasn't so, Yeah.
and I, I guess one more thingthat I really learned really
learned process the Process ofthe the whole was that journey
(18:20):
was actually.
I'm I'm actually not broken.
not this.
this Broken thing that that justthis whole was this beautiful
human being human being that,that, was trying to do the best
I could Do the best I could butand.
and.
now now I can.
and now I I now I can have moregrace and compassion for myself
(18:44):
for way I did behave.
And, that's okay because I didthe best I could.
So.
Justine Clark (18:51):
You've just answered the question I was
gonna ask you, which was, what'sthe most surprising thing about
being an alcohol freedom finder?
And that's so true, isn't it?
That ultimately we think it'sabout alcohol, but it's actually
not about alcohol at all.
It's about coming back to aplace of self-compassion and.
one of our coaches always says,because human, you know, that's
(19:13):
why we do, that's why we makemistakes because we're human.
And to have that compassion isjust, it's such a relief, isn't
it?
It's such a relief.
so what would you say to, tosomebody else who has maybe not
yet done the pause, but hastried a few times?
what would you say to somebodyelse?
that was trying to reframe theirrelationship with alcohol, what
(19:37):
advice would you give them?
Susan Stout (19:39):
I would say don't agree to reach out for help
reach for however that thatbecause, because, It's, it's,
can be, it, a difficult journeyjourney and there's there's such
power and in getting gettinghelp and, and, you still have to
(20:02):
do, You still have to do, workwilling and be open, and be but
the faster you can the fasteryou can.
better you'll feel.
And I, that's what I would'vetold myself too, is don't let,
don't let this, preconceivedidea that you have hold you
back.
Because just to swing it back alittle bit to my father who over
(20:22):
drank and was called analcoholic, I, I know that he was
a loving and beautiful humanbeing And he, he loved us.
he, so I don't define him bythat and.
If he would've had theopportunity to get help, imagine
what that would've been for him.
So, yeah.
I.
Barry Condon (20:41):
Yeah, that's really good advice.
I mean, I think, and that it,it, it comes a lot back to, to
the shame and also to the waythat the society sets us up to,
to.
To feel as if it's, it'ssomething that we should be able
to do and that, and, and that,that, that, you know, the drink
responsibly again.
and, and so we're, we're, youknow, we look at other people
and think, oh, they've got itall under control, and, and why
(21:03):
haven't we?
And you know, if we'restruggling, then we need to.
Need to keep it quiet and, and,and, and you know, like you're
saying, a white knuckle it.
And, and, and I think, you know,we, it's, it's like you said,
it's not, it's not our fault,you know, it's, it's an
addictive substance.
And, and if you use it in enoughof those scenarios and it
becomes a sort of, go-to, crutchor, or, or, you know, treat or
(21:23):
whatever, whatever it means toyou, then it's gonna worm its
way in.
And, you know, some people itworms its way in faster than
others.
But, but, yeah, and like yousaid, it, it, it's, it's not
your fault, but it is yourresponsibility.
And, and that doesn't mean youhave to do it all on your own.
It, it just means, you know,you, you know, just put your
hand up and say, I'm strugglinghere.
Or, you know, find a book, finda a group, find a, a, a a, you
(21:45):
know, a podcast for instance.
You know, just, you know, andfind a community that, that,
that will, that you resonatewith.
that, that, You know, it, itreally does help.
you know, just saying it outloud to yourself or Yeah, just
saying it in the mirror.
Just, you know, actually I needto do something about this, you
know?
Oh, it, it can feel like a, abit of a weight off your
shoulders so you can feel like,okay, yeah, okay, I've said it
(22:05):
now.
Then, you know, what's the nextstep?
And just try and think of, youknow, what, what, what step
could I do, that would take mein the direction I want?
I want to go in, rather thansort of feeling crippled by the,
the, the, the fear of, you know,what might, what might people
think or, shoulding yourselfinto sort of like, I should be
able to do it, but
Susan Stout (22:22):
I love that.
I love that very, and I.
that, Barry.
Also makes me think of, alsomakes how how, as we think know,
sometimes when we're comparingourselves to the ourselves to
outside people that outsideouter, outer facing, outer
facing version of people, weinside.
insides, and we think, oh gosh,here I am, I'm a wreck.
(22:42):
And, and look at them.
They look so, and we just neverknow what other people And, you
through.
know.
you know, you we all don't havemechanisms, whether sugar or
sugar or whatever, and, and, andnot necessary to have shame.
have the shame.
it's just so just so liberatingto get your confidence back back
(23:03):
you once you, can tackle that,So, so that I, I love that that
we, comparison to others is justnot, is just not, helpful.
Justine Clark (23:10):
and, and also not just comparison to others.
Yeah.
but comparison, I'm justthinking from what you were
saying earlier about, our relatthinking about your dad, what
you said about him being thisloving, kind human.
I, I, I pride myself on being awellbeing therapist that's
really there for people.
And I've always been an empath.
My mother was an empath.
(23:30):
It really is a very strongfeature in my personality.
And so when, when I was out anight out six years ago and
somebody said to me.
I'm not gonna go out with youagain.
If you're drinking, yourpersonality changes and you're
not a very nice person.
It's so horrifying.
'cause I didn't think that, thatthis was about personality
change.
(23:51):
I didn't think that this wasabout, actually, I'm not a
vulnerable, authentic version ofmyself.
I'm a different version ofmyself.
I never even factored in thatpart of alcohol when we were,
were growing up and drinking.
I never thought at all for asecond that it would, that it
would.
Change my personality and that Iwould be somebody that instead
(24:11):
of being seen as a, a loving andkind and wonderful mother from
being someone that my daughtersaid when she was about 10, oh
mum, mummy, promise you won'tdrink when I grow up and get
married.
I,
Susan Stout (24:23):
Yeah.
Justine Clark (24:24):
so I was just wondering what, you know, what
you would say, new adventures,experiences, feelings in
yourself that you have now that.
You are not your father, and wecan all see your loving, kind,
generous self.
What, how does that come up foryou?
I.
Susan Stout (24:47):
I think it's just finding.
finding my finding.
does make me tick and and whatis important me, And having the
confidence to explore itfurther.
yeah, and the confidence toconfidence to myself into blame
(25:10):
everything everything that on onwhat my prior behavior was.
Now I can, if something happens,I can, I can look at that.
I can I can, independently andbe, oh.
This happened, and I Instead ofalways having this of thing
that's this.
that's wrong with me.
so And so yeah, the, theconfidence was the biggest
(25:34):
confidence.
Really?
Yeah.
Barry Condon (25:39):
And maybe it's a good time to ask those that ask
the, the question we askeverybody that at the, the.
Three words that describe, thatbest describe your, journey to
what your what finding freedomfrom alcohol means to you.
Susan Stout (25:53):
I think, I I think, hope is big in there, that
future the future is, hopefulinstead of this heavy.
how can I manage I now?
now it's, oh, what is out there?
And so that's a big one.
and right beside like that is isjoy now now I didn't realize
(26:16):
that.
realize that.
point for joy had been justknocked down so low.
I.
as I was numbing out.
And coping and doing all thethings.
I didn't realize that alcoholwas also stealing my everyday
joy.
I went hiking with my familyrecently and I was flooded with
(26:38):
Being in the sunshine and beingwith them, and them, and I'm
like, like, it's just, I just,joy.
It's joy huge and It's abundant.
and the last thing is.
the last thing is, connection.
Because because.
Because is really is really themagic of life, is finding the
(26:59):
connections to myself to myselfand to other people.
and so yeah, I think those aremy three words.
I.
Justine Clark (27:09):
I couldn't agree more.
And the ability to show up foryourself and show up for others,
and I'm sure it just helps yourcoaching business go from
strength to strength.
So if people are looking to,find out more about your
coaching or, how you might beable to help them, what should
they do?
Susan?
(27:29):
I'm
Susan Stout (27:30):
I'm I'm on social media, media, on Facebook and
Instagram my business is StoutCoaching, coaching, website is
there as well there as well.com.
Just, yeah, Just, look me up andlet's connect let's and.
and.
you don't have to do this alone.
So, yeah, I'd love to read, I'dlove to connect with you.
Barry Condon (27:53):
That's brilliant, Susan.
Yeah, I mean, I love, I lovethat those three words were
brilliant.
You know, that, that joy and,and connection.
I, I really particularlyresonate with that idea that,
that, you know, it was the, mybiggest surprise was, you know,
I thought that alcohol was, wasthe only part of my day that was
giving me joy.
But it turns out, you know, itgave it back a little bit at the
end of the day, but actuallywhen he'd take it away.
(28:15):
your, like you said, your, your,your, your set point or your
baseline rises and you canactually enjoy the rest of the
day.
And it's not like get throughthe day so you can have a drink
at the end of it.
It's, it's actually you canenjoy the whole day.
And, and yeah.
And getting back into thatconnection as well is, you know,
that, you know, it, it's, is it,Johan Hari, talks about the, the
(28:36):
connection being the, theopposite of addiction and, it,
it, it really is, you know, anamazing thing.
Justine Clark (28:42):
And one last thing I just realized, it's like
when you start to have thatconnection, it's like your
little balloon.
Rather than being blown up withthe air, it gets blown up with
helium.
It's this, it's this kind ofuplifting feeling, right?
So yeah, we get helium balloonsinstead.
Yes.
Susan Stout (29:02):
Yes.
Or
Justine Clark (29:03):
Yeah, exactly.
We get huff and gas in ourballoons instead.
Literally.
I love that so much.
Thanks so much, Susan.
Thank you guys.
Susan Stout (29:13):
Thank you guys.
It's been lovely be with you
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