Brown M&Ms, Death Row Dinners & Biggest Wine Myths

Why is your bag of Doritos 86% air? What does a rock star's backstage snack list actually say about them? And what would you order if you knew it was the last thing you'd ever eat?

George Duran sits down with Brooklyn-based artist and food photographer Henry Hargreaves, a New Zealander who describes himself as a sociologist who happens to work in food. They start with Waste of Space, the series where Henry vacuum-sealed convenience store snacks to measure exactly how much of each bag is nitrogen: Chex Mix came in at 56%, Fritos 64%, Pringles 66%, Doritos 86%. George runs through the snack industry's official excuses for “slack fill” — nitrogen flushing, settling in transit, packaging headspace, cushioning.

Then it's Band Riders, Henry's photo series built from real contracts leaked by venue staff. Axl Rose wanted Wonder Bread and Dom Pérignon. Mariah Carey wanted Cristal and bendy straws. Busta Rhymes wanted fried chicken, Guinness and Rough Rider condoms. Lady Gaga wanted cheese that was neither smelly nor sweaty, served on ice. And Van Halen wanted M&Ms with every brown one removed — which turns out to have been a deliberate quality-control tripwire buried in a 53-page technical rider, not a tantrum.

In the back half, the tone shifts. Henry's No Seconds series recreated the final meals of executed prisoners: Timothy McVeigh's two pints of mint chocolate chip ice cream, John Wayne Gacy's bucket of KFC, and Victor Feguer's single olive with the pit left in — a request Henry calls a full stop at the end of a life. What Henry found across all of them was the same thing: comfort food.

Finally, Stephen Finch — founder of Vagabond, the UK's most-awarded self-pour wine bar group, now opening its first US location in Nashville — explains why wine is the most intimidating consumer category there is, why the more expensive bottle isn't necessarily the one you'll like, why screw caps might actually beat cork, and how a wall of argon-sealed dispensers lets you taste a hundred wines before committing to a single glass.

Key Takeaways

• Your chip bag is mostly gas. Hargreaves' Waste of Space measurements: Chex Mix 56% air, Fritos 64%, Pringles 66%, Doritos 86%. Cape Cod was the worst offender he tested at 87%.
• The industry calls it "slack fill." George runs the four standard defenses past Henry: nitrogen prevents oxidation, chips settle in shipping, machines need headspace, air cushions the product. Henry accepts the first and rejects the rest.
• Vacuum sealing doesn't destroy the chips. Counterintuitively, Henry found sealed chips survive better — there's no room for them to bounce around and turn into Doritos dust in transit.
• Contract riders reveal true artist personalities. What began as basic technical requirements evolved into elaborate food, drink, and backstage demands—offering an unfiltered glimpse into an artist's real character.
• The brown M&Ms were an engineering safeguard. Van Halen's 1982 rider ran 53 pages of staging and load-bearing specs. Brown M&Ms in the bowl meant the promoter hadn't read it, which meant the rigging might not be safe either.
• The same rider also asked for one large tube of KY Jelly. Henry's question stands: if the promoter got the M&Ms right and missed that, what does that tell you?
• Henry thinks musicians get unfairly vilified for riders. Asking for something specific isn't the same as throwing a fit when you don't get it.
• An outsider's perspective on American executions. As a New Zealander, Henry found state-sanctioned execution surreal enough to investigate — which is how No Seconds started, after he read about a Texas prisoner being denied his final request.
• Last meals are almost always comfort food. Not gluttony, not spectacle. People reach backwards, toward childhood. Henry's own pick: granola with fruit and yogurt.
• A single olive said more than a banquet. Victor Feguer, executed in Iowa in 1963, asked for one olive with the pit still in it, hoping an olive tree would grow from his grave as a sign of peace. The pit was found in his suit pocket afterward. But since it was a brined pit, it was not destined to grow.
• Wine is arguably the most daunting consumer category that exists. Grapes, regions, producers, styles, vintages — Stephen Finch argues most of us default to either familiarity or price because we have no othe

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Van Halen requested M&Ms. Withall the brown ones removed.
Well, I also often wonder ifthey got the M&Ms. Right, but they
forgot the KY jelly that theyalso ordered. Like, what that would
mean.
Welcome to the Always Hangrypodcast, where we break down the
way we eat. The good, the bad,and the completely ridiculous. I'm

(00:22):
your host, George Duran. Ontoday's show, we'll settle one of
the snack world's biggestdebates. Why are potato chip bags
so full of, well, nothing. Awhole. Also, we'll dive into the
bizarre backstage food demandsof some of the world's biggest rock
stars. And later on, do youknow what you'd like for your last
supper? Well, we'll dig deeperinto the final meals chosen by death

(00:42):
row inmates, and then we'retalking all things wine, including
a wine bar where you can tasteyour way through the wine list before
deciding what deserves a fullglass. Joining me now is the artist
and photographer responsiblefor making food both hilarious and
slightly uncomfortable, andHenry Hargreaves.
G'day, George. Thanks forhaving me.

(01:02):
For someone who doesn't knowyou and they find out you work with
food, tell us exactly what youdo with food and in your photography.
I mean, I sort of think ofmyself as almost like a sociologist
with food. You know, I'mtrying to tell stories, and I use
the camera as a way tovisually, like, share it. So it's
like, you know, hey, let'sunderstand more about the world,

(01:23):
and let's try and empathizewith people who we might not necessarily
be able to do in normalcontext, but, hey, through the food,
it's like a common denominator.
Sometimes I look at your worksof art, your series, and I feel like
you're more of a sociopath,not necessarily a sociologist.
First of all, when I startedto be a photographer, it was readily
available and a really cheapmedium to get my hands on. I wanted

(01:45):
to be a fashion photographerat the start, and it was such a headache
to do anything. And suddenly Iwould go to the supermarket and be
like, hey, here is like, youknow, all these things that I can
play with. And then I waslike, you know what? It's just me
problem solving withsomething. And I love this process.
So I was like, food it is.
You're perfect for the showbecause this is exactly what we do.
We look at people's behaviorwith food, especially in this country.

(02:07):
And you being from NewZealand, you probably find some things
that are quite different thatAmericans do than people from New
Zealand do.
Yeah, I mean, look, I Thinkthat's also part of. Part of it is,
you know, I. I still kind oflike playing the outside and looking
in. And it's a little bit likethat in the food space as well. Like,
I don't know if I'm justifyingmy laziness, but I've never actually

(02:29):
become a good cook, you know,and I quite like, you know, this
kind of like, oh, it's a magicworld that I still also am a bit
of an outsider in.
Amazing. So some of yourseries are off the wall, like, wild.
One of the ones that reallystood out for me was called Waste
of Space. And you're prettymuch taking these bags of chips and
you're measuring how muchspace there's inside of these, because

(02:50):
that's a big. You buy this bagof chips, you open it up, and you're
just, like, completelydisappointed. Tell us how that came
about.
I mean, look, I think I hadthe same reaction as you where I'd
open something in just, like,the letdown. And, you know, I was
like, how. What is thedifference here? You know? And we
talk about carbon footprintsand things, and I'm like, how many

(03:10):
trucks don't need to be on theroad? And so I was like, let's vacuum
seal them, measure thedisplacement, and just see, you know.
And I think, you know, like,most of them were, you know, 84,
85% air.
Yeah, I have some of the statshere. You did Chex Mix, and you said
about 56% of chex mix was air.
Right?
That's crazy. So are youtaking these, like, Chex Mix, and

(03:32):
you're crushing it, and thenyou're weighing it and then you're
seeing what the volume is?
Yeah, it was pretty basicphysics. I just literally had a measuring
bowl, dunk the bag, so it wastotally under, see the displacement.
And then took the chips out,vacuum sealed them, and did exactly
the same thing. And kind ofthe irony is when things are vacuum
sealed, they don't break. Youknow, they're tight. They're not

(03:53):
moving around. And you getthat bag and, you know it's been
jiggled around enough, you'reopening that up. I mean, half of
it's like, you know, Doritodust by the time, you know, you get
into it.
Totally. And that air. Thatair that they put inside of it is
called slack fill in theindustry. By the way, there's a term
for that. You did Fritos, andyou said Fritos had 64% emptiness.
And. And Doritos had 86%. Isthat real?

(04:15):
Yeah. I mean, like, all theseare legit. Yeah. I mean, take my
scientific approach with aslight grain of salt, but I'm pretty
confident within a couple ofpoints of standard deviation, you'll
find these are totally accurate.
Pringles had 65% empty space.Although that's weird, because when
you open a Pringles can, it'srelatively full, but what you're
doing is crushing it andseeing how much air there is into

(04:36):
it. Here's the reasoncompanies say there's more air than
food in a bag of chips. Areyou ready to hear their excuses?
Bring it on.
All right. It allows them toflush packages with nitrogen to prevent
oxidation.
It could be. I'm not a. Not anexpert in oxidization, but, like,
I'll take it.
Okay. They say that chipssettle during shipping, so it's not

(04:57):
their fault it's full. It'sjust when you ship it, it's settling.
Yeah, yeah. That one's a bitof a harder, harder buy for me.
Packaging machines need moreheadspace so they could fill it up
properly.
Okay, okay. Still. Still dubious.
It also creates a cushion toprotect the food from shipping and
handling.
I. I mean, look, I think wecome back to, like. I think the vacuum

(05:18):
sealing things would be a moreefficient way. But anyway, keep going.
I mean, you can't vacuum seal chips?
Hold on.
You can't? Why couldn't youvacuum seal?
Well, the vacuum would crushthe chips, and now you really have
that.
Well, like, when I. So when Ivacuum sealed them, it actually wasn't.
I mean, we're not talkingcompletely crushing. The vacuum seal
is actually quite gentle.
Oh, interesting.

(05:38):
And when you bring them allpretty close and there isn't all
this space, you know, I kindof gave it, like, a little shake.
They settled kind oforganically. I'm not saying there
was absolutely no breakage,but, I mean, I don't think there's
anything different than havingthat bag jiggled half a dozen times,
you know, before picking it up.
So tell us more visually whatpeople are going to see when they
go onto your website for this series.

(06:01):
I also did soft drinks withthe amount of sugar in there. To
actually visualize the sugar.I did one with physical iron that's
put into cereal where I waspulling it out. And it's kind of
all these things that you hearabout, but I was like, I just want
to give it the most simplevisual language. And I'm also a great

(06:24):
believer in not preaching toohard and telling people exactly what
they should think. I'm like,look, here's something. Take a look
at this. Hopefully you'reseeing something through a new lens
and you can make up your ownassumptions and conclusions about
this.
One of the things that stoodout for me from your series was called
Band Riders. Can you explainto us what a band rider is?

(06:47):
So a band rider is basically amusician's request when they go and
play a venue. Andtraditionally the rider was about
the equipment. You know, hey,we want these amps, we want these
microphone stands, we wantthis stuff. And over time, it's got
slightly more curated wherethey're, you know, actually I also
want these food requests, Iwant these drinks, I want this. You

(07:08):
know, some musicians, it'slike it's down to furniture and like
they want, you know, when youhear about the superstars who want
the room painted a certaincolor and all that. Anyway, that
comes in this rider form. So Ifound online, I did a deep dive and
found a whole bunch ofwriters, like real writers that people
had shared who worked at musicvenues. And I loved what it said

(07:29):
about these musicians.
So here are some band ridersfor famous celebrities. Axl Rose,
he wanted a sliced white breadand Dom Perignon.
I mean, to me it's like he'sgot the trappings of a rock star,
but he's still a kid from atrailer park in Indiana.
Mariah Carey wanted Cristaland Bendy Straws.
I mean, I think that speaksfor itself.

(07:49):
That totally makes sense. Alot of these, it's funny, it kind
of encompasses who they are asa person too. A lot of their personalities.
Busta Rhymes wanted friedchicken, Guinness and condoms.
Yeah, I think they were RoughRider condoms too. Don't forget that
detail.
But imagine walking into thatgreen room and it smells like fried
chicken. I don't know. Orcondoms. Either way. I mean, obviously.

(08:11):
Well, I just, I love the ideaof like, you know, Rough Rider condoms
before the show. Like, youknow, you're just. There's more to
the story than that. Andagain, I'm just like, here's the
request. You read into this.What you want. Like, is there like
some sort of a session goingon here?
Lady Gaga wanted small cubesor slices of cheese that must be

(08:33):
non smelly and non sweaty,served over ice.
And there's also that idea oflike, just cause you can ask for
a request. You know, howspecific people get. And I don't.
To me, that sounds likesupermarket cheese, you know, but
maybe, you know, she's askingthe same request when she goes to
the Bougiest cheese, you know,Murray's cheese in the West Village
or something.
What cheese doesn't smell insweat, though? That's the question.

(08:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rihanna. Rihanna asked forhard boiled eggs, turkey bacon, turkey
sausage, available at anytime, meaning she always needed that
to be available.
Yeah.
Billy Idol, a tub of I Can'tBelieve It's Not Butter. What if
it's butter, by the way? Hewill throw a fit. I'm sure of that.
Right.
And then, Halen, this is afamous one. I know about this one.

(09:14):
Van Halen requested M&Ms. Withall the brown ones removed. And this
is interesting because a lotof people say that it wasn't necessarily
because he didn't like thebrown M&Ms. Right. What was that
about?
That one was supposedly, ifthey got the M&Ms. Right, they didn't
have to worry about the musicequipment. It was like. Yeah, it
was the metaphor between.
Yeah. And. Because they had avery specific and complicated setup

(09:36):
for their music equipment. Andso that gave them a gauge to figure
out if their brown M&Ms. Werenot there. That means they paid attention
to all the details.
Well, I also often wonder ifthey got the M&Ms. Right, but they
forgot the KY jelly that theyalso ordered. Like, what that would
mean.
That's crazy. I didn't knowthey requested that, too. Do you

(09:58):
think these artists are beingkind of divas, or is it really about
quality control?
I often think that they get alittle bit, like, vilified here.
I think there's a bit of. Ifyou can ask a question, they might
give an answer. Doesn't meanthat they're gonna, like, absolutely
throw a tantrum. But again,this is what we like to, you know,
this is where it sits in thatarea for interpretation.

(10:19):
What would you ask for yourband rider?
I'd want some Miller HighLife. I feel like that is what I
would want to be drinkingbefore a show to get me up, actually.
I would ask for a perfectlyripened avocado. If there's any black
marks, gray marks, brown marksin the avocado, I'm not going to
perform.
Done. Yeah. And they betterhave caressed that.

(10:58):
All right, we're going to takea quick break with Henry Hargreaves,
and when we come back, we'llgo from backstage food demands to
the most consequential foodrequest of all, a death row inmate's
final meal. And later on,we're popping the cork on some of
the biggest wine myths. What'strue, what's nonsense, and what you've
probably been getting wrongfor years. We'll be right back. Okay.

(11:22):
We're back on Always Hangry,and we're with artist and photographer
Henry Hargreaves. You can finda lot about him and his works at
henryhargreaves.com you did anentire series about the final meals
of convicted criminals. Yourecreated their meals. What is it
that fascinated you about thiswhole idea?
Yeah, this is a little bit ofthe outsider looking in. Like in

(11:44):
New Zealand, culturally, youknow, we're pretty similar to America.
But this idea that the statecan execute its own people, you know,
is something that I think fora lot of Western nations is just,
like, completely surreal anddifferent. I was reading about a
guy in Texas who was beingdenied his final meal request, and

(12:07):
I was like, what? Let's do adeep dive here. Let's find out what
people are actually requestingand understand a bit more. And, I
mean, it's well documented.Like, there are Wikipedia pages about
it. And when someone'sexecuted on the state website, it
goes into the most soberingdetail of, like, 9:47, you know,
last rites, read everything.And then there's the food. And as

(12:29):
I read through the foodrequests, I felt I started to get
quite moved. You know, it waslike, they're often presented as
kind of statistics and outlawsand the worst of the worst. And so
I was like, what would it looklike to bring some of these requests
and meals to life and sharethem? And with a lot of my work,

(12:50):
it just starts as an idealike, let's jump in, let's do this.
And I did it. And itimmediately caught fire, the series
and started getting shared,spread, I guess viral is the term
that you would use for it. Andit really resonated with people.
And it's like, hey, food anddeath, you know, is something we
all have a relationship with.

(13:11):
And the series is called noSeconds. It's a genius title for
it. Here are some of the lastrequests for meals from inmates.
Timothy McVeigh.
Two pints of mint chocolatechip ice cream.
Wild. That's absolutely wild.Ronnie Lee Gardner, he requested
lobster tail steak, apple pie,vanilla ice cream while watching
the Lord of the Rings trilogy.Can you even do that?

(13:34):
The request was put in. It wasofficial. And as a New Zealander,
Lord of the Rings also has aspecial place in my heart, as it
was all made there. So that'swhy I was like, this one is one of
them.
Except I found out that theextended edition of Lord of the rings
is 12 hours and 6 minuteslong. He essentially bought himself
12 hours of life.
Well, also, the other thing Iseach state has a different set of

(13:54):
rules around it.
Crazy. John Wayne Gacy — 12fried shrimp, bucket of original
KFC french fries, and a poundof strawberries. And interestingly
enough, prior to theconviction, he had been managing
three KFCs. So he had ahistory of KFC.
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
I mean, I also love that fact.You talk to people who've worked
in fast food restaurants andthey're like, I never want to touch

(14:15):
that stuff again in my life.And here he is wanting it. For his
last meal.
Victor Feguer requested. Asingle olive with the pit still inside.
What is that about?
I mean, to me, the symbolismthere, I don't know. Full stop at
the end of the life, you know,the olive tree, you know, these things.
Like, again, he never saidofficially what it meant, but I just,

(14:35):
I love the interpretation thatyou can put into these things.
I dug deeper into this and itturns out that he wanted, after he
was buried, for that olive pitto grow.
To actually grow.
And incredibly enough, theyended up finding the pit in his pocket.
Really?
Yeah. After he was put todeath. You cannot grow an olive pit
after it's been brined. Itwon't grow into a tree. It has to
be a fresh olive from the treefor it to grow. So it would have

(14:58):
been useless.
Wow.
Completely useless. Ricky RayRector, he requested steak, fried
chicken, cherry kool aid, anda pecan pie.
Well, he was actually mentally disabled.
Yes. All this makes sense.Absolutely. What would your final
meal be?
I mean, I think the threadwith all of these as well is comfort
food. And that's what peopleare looking for at the end. And I

(15:19):
think about those. If I was tothink about the comfort food I would
want Take me back. Probablywould be a bowl of granola with fruit
and yogurt.
Come on, man.
And if I was in a state thatallowed alcohol, I'll put Miller
High Life next to it.
My goodness, we're gonna getsome sponsors on this show. Henry
Hargreaves, thanks so much forbeing here.
Yeah, absolutely, George.

(16:00):
When we come back, we'reseparating wine fact from wine fiction
and discovering Vagabond, awine bar where you can taste first
and find your perfect pour.Welcome back to Always Hangry. Our
guest today is Stephen Finch.He has spent more than 16 years in
the wine world, travelingthrough some of its most famous regions

(16:22):
and tasting thousands of winesalong the way. He's also the founder
of Vagabond, the award winningself-pour wine he launched in London
and is now bringing to theUnited States. Stephen, welcome to
the show.
Oh, thanks, George.Appreciate, appreciate you having
me here.
Stephen, why is wine socomplicated? I mean, right off the
bat, you know, when I want gointo a wine shop, I'm just confused.

(16:42):
It's not just you, so don'tfeel bad about that. It's, it's,
it's all of us, myselfincluded. It's just I struggle to
think of any sort of consumercategory that quite honestly is as
complicated and thereforedaunting as wine. So you just have
this crazy layering of massivevariables of grapes and regions and

(17:05):
producers and styles, all thisstuff. And you walk into a wine shop,
there are hundreds if notthousands of options. Same thing
with a wine list. And for mostof us, we don't have anywhere near
the level of knowledge tomeaningfully navigate that. All those
differences and as a resultwe're often left to outsourcing our

(17:25):
decision making tofamiliarity. I've had this kind of
thing before, or price. LikeI'm gonna, if it's more expensive,
surely it's better.
Except it's also expensive.And how do I trust a sommelier who's
trying to sell me the mostexpensive wine? I presume sell me
a wine that is actually goodand worth the price.
I would probably first draw adistinction between quality and,

(17:47):
and am I going to like it? Youcould make an argument. And I think
it's probably true thatgenerally speaking, the more expensive
something is, the better thequality. But that does not mean I'm
going to like it because it'smore expensive. It's okay to like
what you like. Don't feel likeyou need to hew to this, this idea
that, that, that people aredangling around you. Like I need

(18:08):
to like these things. No, likewhat you like. Just hopefully you
can learn why you like it soyou can become more confident in
that.
Can we talk about marketing inwine? How much of wine is marketing
at the end of the day and whatthe label looks like.
Oh my Lord, that's a trickyone. There are industries at the
lower end of wine, the sortof, you know, I'd say the industrial

(18:29):
made stuff that is almostentirely marketing budget. They've
created a brand, they'veoptimized a, you know, manufacturing
process to generate aresulting liquid that is identical
from year to year. It's not mycup of tea, so to speak.
Yeah. You know, I lived inFrance for three years and I remember
going to vineyards there. Yougo there that you taste for free.

(18:52):
Once, if you like a wine, theysell to you for essentially half
the price that you can find itanywhere else because you're at the
vineyard. But here in theUnited States, it's the opposite.
They charge you more at thevineyard than what they charge at
the wine shop down the street.And it's. You have to pay to taste
you. This luxury experience.Why are we backwards with wine like
this?
Good question. And I don'trecall it always being like that.

(19:14):
It's such a lovely, desirablething to do. And I think, you know,
quite fairly, the, you know,the winemakers, the producers, they've
realized, like, this is athing of value. It's kind of like
an adult Disney World.Probably should charge accordingly.
And, you know, I don't likethat, but I get it. So how is that

(19:35):
possible? Yes. Culturaldifferent. You know, American, we.
We will charge for it. We willcreate a product out of a thing and
sell it for what the marketwill bear. France, it's. They do
have a history of how thingsare done, and that has a momentum.
I like that way that it existsin Europe. And let's not do anything

(19:56):
to make that change, please.
Yeah, the screw caps is.That's also always associated with
cheap wine. But that's nottrue anymore, right?
Absolutely not. I'll be thefirst to admit when. When I first
started coming across screwcaps, I was like, jesus, this is.
This is awful. Like, there'snothing sacred, but, you know, just
haven't been around it for along time. Like, it's legit. It's

(20:19):
not only like, okay, but like,in many ways, it could be better
than cork. So you think with acork, to a certain extent, there's
like a micro. Micro level ofbreathing interfacing with the atmosphere
going on, which presumablyallows it to age more naturally nicer.
Whereas a screw cap is a bitmore of a hermetically sealed sort
of environment.

(20:39):
And what about bag and boxwine? What's your opinion on those?
We have one in the house.
Oh, you do? Okay, good.
Yeah. Well, alternativepackaging people keep trying, I rooted
on, but I definitely think bagand box is a great thing because
technically it is a greatpackaging option, and it works really

(21:01):
well. Don't worry about oxidation.
There are a lot of regions inEurope that the government kind of
controls the quality of thewine and how you can grow and harvest
and when you can harvest thegrapes for the wine. Why don't we
have those rules in California?
Yeah. I mean, obviously withEurope, they've had to do it over.
Over the millennia, really,because this was, like, in many places,

(21:27):
this was the primary economicexport of the region. So you Know,
if they were selling somethingfrom, you know, say, Tuscany for
the. Or Chianti, that's agreat one. Like they wanted it to
be this thing. They wantpeople to know that if they buy wines
from Chianti, it's going to bethis kind of thing, but also this
level of quality. And so theyhad every self interest to regulate

(21:51):
that. And it made a lot ofsense. Nowadays, you know, it's,
it's arguably less relevantand in many cases it's actually a
hindrance. It's holdinginnovation and creativity and artistry
back. California again marchesto their own beat. And that's okay

(22:11):
because, you know, I thinkit's quite in keeping with the American
psyche that we're going to dowhat we think works. And we might
make mistakes along the way.And certainly they have like, they've
planted the wrong grapes, thewrong areas. And for a long time
it was all about Merlot. Andthen, you know, a certain movie came
out and people started rippingout Merlot. But that's, that's sort

(22:34):
of the beauty and thebrilliance of the American way is
there are no restrictionsreally. They can just do whatever.
And I kind of like that. Iwant to have a mosaic where people
are doing things differentlybecause then it allows me to identify
what works better.
For me personally, one of thebiggest problems I have in a restaurant

(22:54):
is ordering a bottle andcommitting to that bottle of wine.
But you've figured out a wayaround it with your self-pour concept.
Can you tell us more aboutVagabond Wines?
Yeah, absolutely. Withvagabond, we've got 100 wines. All
Vagabonds have 100 wines thatyou can taste by the sample or the
glass by style rather thanregion or grape. And that just being

(23:15):
able to expand that boundaryof your knowledge and your confidence
in wine is such a rewardingthing for everyone.
So the concept is that you'retaking your glass and you're going
up to this counter that has aself-pour feature, almost like a
soda bar, for example, and youget to choose and how do you monitor
how much is being poured andhow much you pay and how much you

(23:36):
drink?
Yeah, so we have theseself-pour machines. So we each one
has 10 bottles. So you can goin and get a sample. So it's enough
for like two mouthfuls or youcan get a proper glass. You can even
get a bottle if you want. Butfor the self-pour machines, it's
all about pouring some wineout, having a taste.
So is it pushing an inert gasinside of the bottle? To always keep

(23:57):
it fresh and this way you canuse it for weeks on end.
Yeah. These are definitely.They work with an inert gas and in
this case it is argon. So onceyou get some argon in, in the wine
bottle, it creates a safelayer. So it is preserving the wine
once you put it on. On the machine.
Yeah. Can you buy the bottlesof wine afterwards to take home?

(24:17):
That depends on the localregulations. So in the, in the uk,
that's fine that we UK doesnot have a history of puritan based
liquor laws.
Are you going to bringVagabond wines to the United States?
Yeah, that's what we're doing.So yeah. I came back to Nashville
after many years in London andthis is definitely the place where
I want to recreate Vagabondfor America. Nashville being the

(24:42):
first one. And I think thetiming is absolutely right for this
right now.
For me to be able to go into arestaurant and be able to taste,
just taste different wines andthen choose the glass that I want,
it's a genius idea. I don'tknow why we haven't done this in
the past. Stephen Finch fromVagabond Wines, thanks so much for
being on Always Hangry.
My pleasure. Thank you, George.
And you can check out VagabondWines at VagabondWines.com and you'll

(25:06):
find more about them there.And for all the folks tuning in,
if you liked what you heard,follow the Always Hangry podcast
wherever you listen topodcasts. And head over to always
hangrypodcast.com for newepisodes, bonus content and everything
else we've got cooking. I'mGeorge Duran. Until next time, stay
hungry.