Eating With Your Hands, Terrible Food Names & the Truth About Indian Cuisine

Is it ever okay to eat with your hands at a restaurant? George and Karla Walsh set the rules, rebrand the world's worst food names, and Chef Vivek Surti of Tailor Nashville explains why "curry" doesn't actually mean anything.

George Duran and Karla Walsh open the fine-dining rulebook and start crossing things out. Which foods are you allowed to pick up with your hands — and who decided that? There's a list. It involves bones, buns, edible wrappers, and one very firm position on tomahawk steaks.

Then: the science on whether touching your food actually makes it taste better, how the fork went from scandalous foreign object to table standard, why China went a completely different direction, and the international cuisines where eating by hand isn't a lapse in manners — it's the point. Plus a cautionary tale about a finger bowl that mysteriously emptied itself.

After the break, the rebrand segment. Head cheese contains no cheese. Rocky Mountain oysters are not oysters. Imitation crab is not crab. Spotted dick is not what you're worried it is. George pitches replacement names, Karla judges them, and a strong case gets made for calling prunes "dried plums" from here on out.

Finally, Chef Vivek Surti of Michelin-recommended Tailor in Nashville joins to answer the Indian food questions people are too polite to ask. Why is nearly every Indian restaurant in America serving the same handful of Punjabi dishes? What does "curry" actually mean? Would he eat street food in India? And is it okay to pick up the lamb chop with your hands at his own restaurant?

Takeaways:

• Eating with your hands isn't a lapse in etiquette — in many cuisines it's the correct method, and there's research suggesting direct hand contact genuinely changes how food is perceived.
• The fork is a newcomer. It was condemned as decadent when it arrived in Europe and didn't take hold in America until the 1800s — humans have been eating with their hands for far longer than with cutlery.
• China's cuisine and its utensils evolved together: food cut into bite-sized pieces in the kitchen removed the need for a knife at the table.
• Restaurants signal permission. Wet wipes, hot towels, bibs, shell crackers, gloves, and finger bowls are the kitchens telling you to go ahead and use your hands.
• A lot of food names are actively working against the food. Head cheese, blood sausage, and imitation crab all describe delicious things in the least appetizing way possible.
• Sorghum is one of the world's oldest cultivated grains — gluten-free, drought-resistant, and used in everything from flour to syrup to biofuel — and George's only complaint is the name.
• American Indian restaurant food is overwhelmingly one regional style. Vivek Surti estimates 90–99% of it descends from Punjabi cuisine, largely because that's what British diners preferred and what first-generation restaurateurs could sell.
• "Curry" is a blanket term with no real meaning inside India. Ask an Indian chef to "make curry" and the honest answer is a question back.

Companies and people mentioned

• Vivek Surti — Chef and owner of Tailor, Nashville, Tennessee. Michelin-recommended, South Asian American / "first generation American" cuisine, tasting-menu only. James Beard Foundation semifinalist, Best Chef: Southeast. Located in Germantown. — https://www.tailornashville.com/
• Karla Walsh — recurring co-host; food and wellness writer — https://www.instagram.com/karlaswalsh/
• Charles Spence — Oxford experimental psychologist and gastrophysicist; author of Gastrophysics: The New Science of Eating
• Adriana Madzharov — sensory marketing researcher, Stevens Institute of Technology; author of the 2019 hand-contact study
• Maid-Rite — Iowa-founded loose meat sandwich chain
• Manwich — canned sloppy joe sauce brand (Hunt's)

Also referenced:

Journal of Retailing; International Journal of Gastronomy and Food Science; Smithsonian magazine; Japan National Tourism Organization; MICHELIN Guide

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I went on a date when I was in France.
Oh, gosh.
And this girl ate a hamburgerwith a fork and knife.
Oh, no.
She said she didn't want toget her fingers dirty.
Was there a second date?
There was not. Welcome to theAlways Hangry podcast, where we break
down the way we eat. The good,the bad, and the completely ridiculous.

(00:20):
I'm your host, George Duran.On today's show, is it ever okay
to eat with your hands at arestaurant? We'll explore the etiquette,
the cultures that embrace it,and why some people still can't stand
the sight of it. Then we'regiving some of the world's most misleading
food names, the rebrand theydesperately need. And later on, we'll
speak to chef Vivek Surti,who's setting us straigh on curry,

(00:43):
Indian cuisine, and a fewthings Americans get completely wrong.
Joining me now is the onlyperson on earth who thinks every
meal is fantastic, thewonderfully charming Karla Walsh.
I'm up for a good challenge.Thrilled to be here, George.
Do you eat with your fingers a lot?
Fair amount, yes.
Yeah. There are certain foodsthat you should be allowed to eat,
right?
Yes, 100%. Well, we've allseen the controversy when politicians

(01:06):
don't eat pizza with theirhands or eat hot dogs inappropriately.
There's just. It's a minefield.
Why is it that people like toeat with their fingers?
It's efficient. I mean,there's a lot of foods that it just
makes sense to. I mean, if youwere going to try to eat a deviled
egg with a knife and fork anddo it in less than in multiple bites

(01:26):
or something, it's just likethis seems, like, inefficient.
I will never sit with you ifyou eat a deviled egg with a fork
and knife.
Yeah.
I will leave the table. I'lljust get up and leave.
Or like your bone in chickenwings. You know, it's just like there
are certain foods that aredesigned to be eaten with your hands.
So wait, what do you do whenyou go to a fine dining restaurant?
Even, like a tasting menu? Andthen you get the bone in chicken.
Exactly.
All right, so here's the listof foods that should be allowed to

(01:49):
be eaten by hand at a finedining restaurant.
According to George Duran?
Yes, that's correct. Foodswith natural handles. Anything with
a bone, like wings, ribs, lambchops, especially fried chicken,
of course. Even those bone inrib eyes and those tomahawk steaks.
Okay.
When you get into a finedining steakhouse, and you know how

(02:09):
they Serve like the bone inrib eyes, and they cut the slices,
but then they bring the bonejust to kind of show it off.
Yeah.
That bone is mine.
Okay. Do you do it in the restaurant?
I do.
Okay.
It's the rule.
The rule.
If there's a bone, I'm eatingit, I'm picking it up with my fingers,
and I'm gnawing on that bone.
I think the kitchen staffwould totally.
Respect this, like a viciouswild animal that I am. It's the best

(02:32):
flavor. The best flavor is onthe bone.
Yeah. I think that's appropriate.
Why do you think people love ribs?
Exactly.
All shellfish.
Yeah.
Yeah. I want to. I want to,like, suck the heads off the crawfish.
Yeah.
In person.
I mean, a shrimp cocktail,100% french fries or chips. Yes.
All tacos and burritos.
Yes.
Period. That's obvious.
Yeah.
Anything with an ediblewrapper, like egg rolls, stuffed

(02:54):
grape leaves, empanadas.
Yeah.
And finally, anything betweentwo buns, a burger, club sandwich,
hot dogs. If it has two bunsin any way, I'm using my fingers.
I think the only exception tothat rule would be is if it's over
the capacity of my mouth, it'sability to expand.
Have you seen my mouth?Nothing is over the capacity of my

(03:15):
mouth.
There's some really tallburgers these days.
Scientists say that food mayactually taste better when touched.
A 2019 paper in the Journal ofRetailing looked at four studies
that compared direct handcontact while eating versus eating
with a utensil. Andresearchers found that people who
normally have a lot of selfcontrol around food actually enjoyed
it more. They wanted it moreand ate more of it when they touched

(03:38):
it with their hands first.
Wow.
Another 2022 review by Oxfordgastrophysicist Charles Spence found
that chefs and researchers areseeing that the journey from plate
to your mouth changes the wayfood tastes when you use your hands.
It also found that asrestaurants have become more casual
and even fine dining chefshave become more experimental, eating

(03:59):
with your hands has becomemuch more accepted, like you said.
Yeah, I think so. I've been tosome fine dining restaurants where
they're like, here's how youeat this. Because it's like, kind
of confusing or like, wesuggest that you pick it up with
your hands and do it in one bite.
The French, however. Oh, theFrench. If it comes on a plate, it's
always eaten with a fork andknife. Always. Almost usually. It's
a very French thing to say. Infact, here are the weirdest foods

(04:21):
that I Witnessed the Frencheat with a fork and knife. Pizza.
Okay.
Yeah. I've seen French eatFrench fries with a fork and knife.
That's really difficult,especially if we're dipping.
And it's French fries.
The only time that'sappropriate is if it's poutine.
I've seen French eat friedchicken with a fork and knife.
Yeah, I could see that.
I have seen the French eat hotdogs with a fork and knife.

(04:42):
No. Swear in the bun.
I swear in the bun. Of course.How else?
I don't know.
And then one time I went on adate when I was in France.
Oh, gosh.
And this girl ate a hamburgerwith a fork and knife.
Oh, no.
She said she didn't want toget her fingers dirty.
Was there a second date?
There was not.
Deal breaker.
That is the biggest dealbreaker. Hamburger with a fork and

(05:06):
knife.
Infidelity. Fork and knife fora hamburger.
I said no. All right.According to Smithsonian magazine,
the personal dining fork wasonce considered bizarre and decadent
in Europe. In fact, mostEuropeans still ate with their fingers
and knives in the Middle Ages.And the forks did not become well
established in the Unitedstates until the 1800s.

(05:27):
Okay, that's fairly recent.
Yeah. We've been eating withour hands and our fingers for thousands
of years.
Right.
Archaeologists have found boneand bronze forks in ancient China
dating back to the Bronze Ageand the Shang dynasty. But these
weren't found for thoseeveryday dinner forks. They were
more for serving. Okay, here'sthe reason why Chinese never adapted
the modern fork in their cuisine.
Okay.

(05:47):
Chinese cooks increasingly cutfood into bite-sized pieces in the
kitchen, so the diners nolonger need a fork and a knife.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Genius. We should all cut ourfoods into pieces here. Even a burger.
Cut it into pieces so I caneat it with a chopstick. Please don't.
Here's another reason. Mealsfeatured lots of rice noodles, dumplings,

(06:08):
vegetables, and small piecesof meat, which are ideal for chopsticks,
too.
Designing their cuisine aroundtheir utensils. It's really smart.
Genius. And then Confucianphilosophy also discouraged having
knives on the dining tablebecause they symbolize the violence.
Yeah. I mean, it could be. Whoknows these days?
Here's how you can tell thatthe restaurant is saying, go ahead
and start eating with yourhands and your fingers. They have

(06:29):
wet wipes on or hot towels.
Uh huh.
You give me a wet wipe and ahot towel. I'm using my fingers.
Yeah.
Period. I've washed my hands.They offer a bib.
Okay. We're at like a seafood shack.
They give you a shell cracker.
Yes.
You're using your hands already.
Yes. I mean, that's what it'sthere for.
They give you disposable gloves.
Okay.
Some of those, like, seafood places.
Yeah.
You can use your hands, ofcourse. And finally there's a finger

(06:52):
bowl.
Okay.
Yeah, the finger bowl. Youknow what that is, right?
Yeah. Like when you go to asushi restaurant.
Yeah. There's some. A lot ofAsian restaurants, there's African
restaurants. And they give youthe finger bowl. They put a little
slice of lemon in there.
Yeah.
And you just dip your fingersin there to clean as you eat or after
you eat. And your hands arealways clean.
I think that's a great sign.
However, I once went to anIndian restaurant with friends. This

(07:13):
is about 10 years ago orsomething like that.
Okay.
So they had a finger bowl in there.
Perfect.
At the very end of the meal, Ilook at the finger bowl and the water's
gone.
Oh, no.
Somebody drank the finger bowlwater. No.
Did you tell them? What do you do?
We all looked in shock andnobody admitted to drinking it.

(07:34):
Oh, my gosh.
They thought it was like lemon water.
Oh, no. I mean, they have goodgut health now. Wow.
We also have our. Whatever weput in our mouths in there.
Exactly.
Yeah. Here's a list ofinternational cuisines where it's
tradition to eat by hand, evenin formal restaurants.
Okay.
All right. Indian andSoutheast Asian or South Asian. Across
many Indian regionaltraditions. Diners use the fingers

(07:56):
to combine rice with curry.Tear the roti and naan into pieces
for scooping.
That makes total sense.
Do you do this at Indian restaurants?
Yeah, definitely.
In the Philippines, it'skamayan. Do you know kamayan refer
to.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's eating by hand. It'sespecially associated with communal
feasts. They put the bananaleaves all throughout the town table
and they pop all their foodsthere and you eat all by hand.
It just seems like so bonding.

(08:18):
Now, Japan, it's notnecessarily known for eating by hand,
but certain foods are firmlyaccepted to be eaten by hand.
Okay.
Sushi is one of them.
Yeah. I think certain bitesthat you're just supposed to eat
really quickly, right. Whilethey're as fresh as possible.
According to the JapanNational Tourism Organization, they
say that chopsticks aregenerally preferred for sushi. But

(08:39):
eating sushi with your ownhands is pretty perfectly acceptable,
particularly at high end restaurants.
Yeah.
So here are some of theunspoken rules on how to eat Japanese
food. Maki rolls. You know therolls, the Hand or the chopstick
is perfectly fine.
Perfect.
So you can literally pick itup with your finger and eat it.
Okay.
Temaki hand rolls. They'rehand rolls. You obviously have to

(09:01):
eat it with your hands. Right.Sashimi. That's chopsticks only.
I feel like that's appropriate.
I don't think you should pickup a sashimi with your finger.
Yeah, I do.
That's a little weird.
Could be slippery.
And finally, nigiri. Regularsushi. Both hands or chopsticks.
And the Japanese NationalTourism Board state that when dipping
nigiri, the regular sushi, youturn it so the fish slightly touches

(09:21):
the soy sauce. You do not wantthe rice to soak that soy sauce.
I feel like that could soak upa lot if you were getting the rice.
It's very absorbent.
God, sushi is like one of thebest foods on earth.
I know. Are we going for lunch?

(09:54):
Why don't we take a break andgo for lunch? Seriously, let's take
a break. When we come back,we're giving some of the world's
most misleading food names.The rebrands they desperately need.
And later on, how much do wereally know about Indian food? We're
busting a few myths aboutcurry and the cuisine we think we
know. We'll be right back. Allright, we're back with Karla Walsh.

(10:18):
Karla, have you ever refusedto order something just because of
its name? Like, have you everheard of a name and it sounds weird
and you're like, I'm notbuying that. I'm not gonna order
that.
Ooh. I can't think of aspecific example, but I'm sure it's
happened.
It always does. There are alot of food names that I think need
to get a little marketingmakeover. So here's a list of foods
that need better names.
I can't wait.
Head cheese.

(10:39):
Yes, rebrand.
Despite its name, Head cheesecontains no cheese. It's a centuries
old cold cut made by simmeringthe meat from a pig's head, especially
the cheeks and tongue, untilnatural gelatin binds it into a sliceable,
delicious loaf. I would try itonce, I think.
Yeah, I would. I will tryanything once.
Sorghum.

(10:59):
Sorghum. What's wrong withthat name?
Sorghum.
Because it's sore.
Sorghum. You try to eat that.
I've had sorghum syrup. It's delicious.
Sorghum is one of the world'soldest cultivated grains. First grown
in Africa more than 5,000years ago before spreading to Asia
and eventually the Americas.It's naturally gluten-free dairy,
drought-resistant. And todayis used in everything from flour

(11:21):
and cereal to animal feed andeven biofuel. And the syrup that
you're talking about too. Andyou know what? We just gotta change
the name. It's the perfectgrain. It's like a miracle grain.
It's delicious and it growseverywhere in droughts. It's gonna
save world hunger.
I know, I'm in.
Change the name.
It's not sexy, but quinoa did a.

(11:41):
Good job with grains.
Quinoa is a great name.
Lovely name. Hate to eat it.Lovely name. Something about quinoa,
but sorghum, I love.
Sorghum is delicious.
Yeah, it is. Rocky Mountain oysters.
Yeah, that definitely is notan accurate name.
It's not an oyster. Despiteits name. Rocky Mountain oysters
obviously aren't oysters.They're the testicle of bulls. Even

(12:02):
though they use bison andsheep sometimes, and even pigs. They're
peeled, sliced, breaded anddeep fried and have been a ranching
tradition in the American westfor generations.
I think people have probablyordered that not knowing what they're
getting for many, many years.
Have you?
I totally knew what I wasgetting myself into. I've only had
them once.
Oh, go on. How does it taste?

(12:22):
It tastes like chicken
Spotted dick. Despite thename, spotted dick is a traditional
British steamed pudding andnot something scandalous, of course.
It's made with suet flour anddried currants or raisins, by the
way. None of that soundsdelicious. Which create the spots,
of course, those raisins. Andis often served warm with custard.

(12:44):
The name dates back to the1800s. Spotted refers to the dried
fruit, of course, while thedick is believed to come from an
old English word like puddingor dough, even though people really
don't know the exact origins.Have you had spotted dick before?
I have not. It sounds kind oflike bread pudding.
Yeah, kind of. It's just.There's something about it, though.
Hey, would you like to comeover for some spotted dick?
Yeah. The name is not appealing.

(13:06):
Blood sausage.
See, that's anotherchallenging one.
Blood sausage is exactly whatit sounds like. It's a sausage made
by combining animal blood,usually from pigs, with fat grains
like oat, barley, rice. InBritain it's called black pudding.
Great name. In Spain it'scalled morcilla. That's what we call
them in South America growingup too. France it's called boudin
noir.
Yes.

(13:26):
And in Korea it's called sundae.
Sundae.
While the name can soundintimidating, blood sausage remains
a beloved tradition all overthe world. And let me tell you something.
I love blood sausage.
You're totally in.
Oh, my God. I grew up eatingblood sausage.
Yeah.
And it wasn't called bloodsausage. And I promise you, if it
was called blood sausage, Iwould have never tasted it as a kid.

(13:46):
It was called morcilla, and itis the best sausage on Earth because
what.
Does it taste like?
It is? Well, they make it withrice in South America and Argentinian
cuisine, Venezuelan cuisine,they make it with rice. And so it's
a dark sausage. And when theygrill it in all steakhouses, it has
this deep meat flavor, almostlike concentrated beef.

(14:06):
You just need to call it byone of its synonyms.
Right. Anything but bloodsausage. Please. Let's change that
name.
Yeah, that's a challenging one.
Do you think there's, like, ablood sausage board in this country?
I feel like you should havethem on for the interview at the
end of this podcast.
Who's going walking aroundwith a blood sausage tag?
Exactly.
Toad in a hole.
I feel like that is a funname, but there's a lot of different

(14:26):
names for that, right?
It is.
Have you found me somesynonyms? It's like an egg in a basket,
right?
Yes, yes. There's a lot ofdifferent names of Toad in the Hole.
So it's essentially you cut ahole in your toast, you add an egg
in there, and you kind of fryit on both sides and you have, like,
the egg incorporated in thetoast. Here's what Toad in the Hole
is also referred to as in theUnited States.
Perfect.
Egg in a hole. Egg in abasket. Bird in a nest. Bullseye

(14:51):
eggs.
Wow.
One Eyed Jack.
I haven't heard of that one.
A Popeye.
Okay.
And Gas House eggs.
Gas House?
Gas House Eggs.
Who's Gas House? Is this,like, a restaurant?
It's something you don't dowhen you're in public.
Okay.
Ants on a log is another one.
Ah, yes.
Yeah, it has a little bit ofa, you know, a name that's kind of

(15:13):
weird. And by the way, I don'tsee a lot of people eating ants on
a log anymore.
I. I actually think it'shaving a bit of a renaissance. Like,
we're having that 90snostalgia. I've seen it on some restaurants
with, like, some, like, bougieupgrades. You know, like, they're
using, like, tahini orsomething like that and, like, different
fruits.
If you don't know Ants on aLog, it's actually started as a fancy
appetizers in the late 1800s.Stuffed celery filled with cheese

(15:36):
was served at elegant dinnerparties. As peanut butter became
more popular, it replaced thecheese. Raisins, of course, were
added, and by 1959, the snackwas widely known as Ants on a Log.
Adorable. I don't like theflavor of it. Something about celery
and peanut butter, and thenyou put dried fruit on top of it.
No one knows who invented it.And despite becoming one of America's
most iconic kid snack, itscreator remains a mystery. Wow. Do

(16:00):
you like Ants on a Log?
I haven't had it for years. Iremember loving it as a kid. But
I do have another dried fruitthat needs a rebrand. Can we talk
about prunes?
Oh, my gosh. Yes, please.
I feel like it's just like.It's not a sexy name. Everybody associates
it with something that is notvery glamorous, but they're just
dried plums.
Dried plums is a fantasticname for a prune.
It's a better name. Right.

(16:20):
Can we please remarket thatname? Prunes.
Yeah. It's like you think of,like, grandma when you think of a
prune.
Yeah. And delicious, too.
Yes.
And you incorporate in stews.It adds sweetness and bite into it.
It's fantastic.
Exactly.
I'm calling it dried plumsfrom now on.
Dried plums.
I'm going to the supermarket.Where are the dried plums? The guy
won't know what I'm talkingabout. Dried plums, man. Sloppy joe.

(16:40):
Ah. This is. You're speakingto my Midwest.
Yeah. Most food historiansbelieve it was created in the 1930s
by a cook named Joe at a cafein Sioux City, Iowa, who added tomato
sauce to loose meatsandwiches. It's famously messy to
eat, known to be served incafeterias and schools. I had my
first sloppy joe justrecently. No. And I made it for a

(17:01):
client because they wanted meto make a sloppy joe.
What's the official chef review?
It's delicious, right? It is.So much. It's amazing, because the
best part about sloppy joe isthat it absorbs in the bun.
Yes.
And then. And it's kind ofsweet, too. It's so good. It's not
like a Bolognese. It's just.It's kind of messy, but it's very
sweet. It has, like, ketchupand Worcestershire sauce and tomato.

(17:23):
And you can make it with anyground meat you want.
Exactly.
And then you just eat it, andit's, like, so yummy. It's so good.
But everybody knows it as,like, the Manwich thing, the canned
stuff. Yeah. And you can'tjudge sloppy Joe on that.
No. Mom's homemade Sloppy joesare something else. It's like barbecue
sauce tossed with, like,ground meat of your choice on a bun.

(17:43):
How could you be mad aboutthat in the Midwest?
Do they have that in thediners and, like, restaurants?
Oh, definitely. And we have achain called the Maid Rite.
Okay.
That is like, a traditionalloose meat sandwich, which is also
in need of a rebrand, but it'sa little bit less saucy, but it's,
like, chopped up and somespices. Ground beef situation on
a bun, usually with mustardand pickle, and it's just like a

(18:04):
classic diner treat.
Amazing. All right, we got onemore here. Imitation crab meat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Despite its name, imitationcrab meat contains no crab. It's
primarily made from surimi, apaste of mild whitefish, usually
pollock, that's flavored,colored, and shaped to resemble crab.
It originated in Japan over900 years ago. And I love imitation

(18:25):
crab meat.
Do you really?
They sell terrible imitationcrab meat here in the United States.
So here is a list that I cameup for better names for imitation
crab meat.
Ooh.
Tell me which one you like.
Okay.
Seafood sticks.
I feel like that's prettygood, but sticks. I feel like it's
close to fish sticks.
Yeah, I guess so. Ocean delights.
Ooh, yeah. Okay.

(18:45):
Okay. Faux King Crab...Faux...King...Crab
It's getting a little tooclose to tricky territory, but kids
will love it. Enunciate inyou're safe.
Ocean bologna.
Sold.
Got it. And finally, theartist formerly known as crab.
That's my favorite. It's so good.

(19:06):
All right, we got it. Let'scall the imitation crab meat board
and get that rolling.
Let me know when I can signthe petition.
All right. Thanks so much forbeing on the show, Karla. Appreciate
it very much.
Always an honor to be here.

(19:39):
All right, up next, Think youkKnow Indian food. We're uncovering
some surprising truths aboutcurry, Indian cuisine and what we've
gotten wrong in America. Staytuned. Joining me now is Chef Vivek
Surti, the chef and owner ofthe Michelin recommended restaurant
Tailor in Nashville,Tennessee. He's here to answer all

(20:02):
the questions you've secretlywondered about Indian food, but we're
afraid to ask. From curry toeating with your hands, we're setting
the record straight. ChefVivek, welcome to Always Hangry.
Hey, thanks, George. Thanksfor having me.
You know, when I think ofNashville, Tennessee, I do not think
of Indian food. Is there a bigIndian population there?
Yeah. I mean, we. You know,Nashville has been a growing city

(20:23):
over the last few years, but,you know, We've had a large Indian
community here since the early70s, you know, when there were lots
of immigrants kind of comingfrom India. You know, Nashville,
I think, definitely gets thestereotype, you know, for being a
country music capital and hotchicken and barbecue. But it's also
an incredibly progressive anddiverse city.

(20:44):
You know, when someone saysIndian food, to me, you know, Indian
food is really diverse and complicated.
Right. You know, India is oneof the oldest cultures in the world.
On the one hand, the Indianfood that most people know are the
things that you would find ina restaurant. Butter chicken, chicken
tikka masala, saag paneer,samosas, These kinds of things. When

(21:04):
you look at India as acountry, however, it is comprised
of 29 different states. Eachstate has its own very unique cuisine.
And because of all thosedifferences in geography and people
and cultures and colonizationwhich has happened, you have this
incredibly diverse countrywhere, you know, if you grew up in

(21:28):
one of the states, like, youknow, where my family comes from
in Gujarat, you might not knowthe other 28 cuisines. And the food
that you find mostly inrestaurants is, you know, inspired
by Punjabi cuisine becausethat was the food that British people
enjoyed the most. It'sgenerally milder. It usually has

(21:48):
more cream and butter, whichmakes sense because they're in a
higher elevation place wherecows are, you know, more. More prevalent.
There's also tons of wheatproduction there. So you see breads
like naan or parathas andthings like that. If you compare
that with the city or thestate of Gujarat, which is where
my family's from, there thecuisine is more vegetarian. It leans

(22:13):
into a flavor profile which ismore sweet and sour because a lot
of Gujaratis are day workers,so they put sugar in the food to
give them energy throughoutthe day, but they always balance
that with sourness. Then ifyou go to the south, the southern
part of India, which isactually where my wife's family's
from, the food will be hotterthere, you know, the further south
you go, because when theweather's warm, people eat spicy

(22:36):
food because it makes themsweat, and the sweat cools them down.
Are we seeing adiversification of Indian cuisine
in the United States, or arewe still sticking with the. With
that Punjab style?
I think the majority of it, Iwould say 95%, 90, you know, maybe
even 98, 99% is the Punjabi style.
Oh, that's crazy. Why? Why isthat? Why can't we just move? Just

(22:58):
diversify that palette and therecipes. I like the idea of trying
spicier, sweeter Indian Cuisine.
The playbook for people whomoved here in the 70s has always
been, you know, let's makeIndian food cheap, let's not make
it as spicy, let's make itmild, let's put butter and cream
into all these things. Like,you know, Indians that came to America

(23:21):
in the 70s and 80s and openedrestaurants, their goal was not,
hey, let me show you the foodof my home, it was, I need to make
money because I've just movedhere and I have $200 in my pocket.
So a lot of these restaurants,even though they might have 50 things
on the menu, 90% of what theysell is butter, chicken, chicken,
tikka masala. I think whatyou're starting to see now in America

(23:42):
are the children of theseimmigrants who grew up with the food
that their parents made athome, but also grew up with the influences
of living here in America. Ithink it's given chefs the ability
to be like, you know what,let's focus in a little bit more
on this regionality and startshowing people that there is so much

(24:03):
more beyond that which we'vealways known.
Yeah, can we talk a little bitabout curry? By the way, what exactly
is curry? In your opinion?Even if there's no opinion to it,
what is curry?
Curry, I think for most peoplein America is a spice blend. In India,
the word curry doesn't reallyexist because it doesn't mean anything.

(24:25):
So to me, I hate the word, youknow, honestly, because it doesn't
mean anything. If somebody waslike, make me curry, I'm like, I
have no idea what you mean. Doyou want chicken? Do you want fish?
Do you want potatoes? Do youwant this? Right. It's just a very
open ended word. It'd be likesomebody coming up to me and be like,
hey, can you make me sauce?Like, great, yes, I can. What do

(24:48):
you mean?
You know, you know, one of thebiggest viral things that you see
online and social media is thestreet food in India. And it's obviously
shocking at times. And thereare some issues when people watch
that and they say, I don'tknow who eats this. Would you eat
street food in India?
I do.
You do? Even if the sanitationisn't all there,.

(25:10):
There are gonna always bevery, very high quality street food
vendors. Then there will alsobe some not so clean ones. And it's
just kind of knowing this oneI can feel good about and this one
I can't. But to me, it's. It'sa way, it's kind of a risk that,
like, I'm willing to take. Andto me, you sometimes in those areas,
you find some of the best foodthat you will ever have.

(25:33):
We were just talking abouteating with your hands and the etiquette,
especially in a fine diningrestaurant. In your restaurant, for
example, is it okay to eatwith the hands?
So, I mean, certain. Certaindishes, we encourage people to eat
with their hands. As in, like,we will not mark them with any silverware.
When it comes to entrees andthings like that, though, we always.

(25:56):
We always will mark withsilverware just as a default. But
if people want to, you know,it's like, sometimes, like, you know,
on the current menu, like, wehave lamb chops. And so, you know,
some people eat it with just afork and knife. But I'll also, like,
encourage people like, I'mlike, hey, don't be scared to pick
up the bone.
Do you want me to tell youwhat my biggest problem with Indian
cuisine is?
Sure.
It tastes too good. Youovereat all the time. My stomach

(26:19):
is just inflated, and I stillwant to eat. Tell me that happens
to everybody. Tell me thathappens to you.
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think, youknow, Indian people are very generous
when it comes to hostingothers. And so, you know, it's like
growing up, you know, Iremember my grandmother was always
like, are you full? And I waslike, yes. And she'd be like, great,
eat some more. And, you know,the generosity to. To the people

(26:42):
of India, where, you know,it's like, they want to share their
culture, they want to do those things.
Let's talk a little bit aboutyour restaurant, Tailor in Nashville.
What kind of cuisine is this?Because I was looking through the
menus, and I wouldn't evenknow what to order, and I would just
get the tasting menu and bedone with it.
Yeah. I mean, luckily, that'sall we serve is the tasting menu,
so.
Okay, good.
But we call it firstgeneration American cuisine. It's

(27:05):
the food we grew up with inthe place we grew up in. On New Year's
Day in India, in Gujarat, wehave black eyed peas and greens,
because these are dishes thatsymbolize good luck for the new year.
And down here in the Americansouth, we have a little dish called
Hoppin' John, which is blackeyed peas and greens and rice. There
are ingredients that we see inthe American south, squashes, okra,

(27:29):
flat beans, pole beans, thatwe also see in all of our Gujarati
dishes. You know,memorializing our family recipes
is important to me. It's alsoimportant that we hold onto what
is important about Nashvilleas well.
Chef Vivek Surti therestaurant's name is Tailor in Nashville,
Tennessee. Go check it out ifyou're ever there. I know. I'm going

(27:50):
to check it out. Thanks somuch for being on the show.
All right. Thank you so much, George.
And folks, thanks a lot forjoining us on Always Hangry. If you
enjoyed today's episode,subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Watch the full video and clipson our YouTube channel. Join the
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Com for episodes, extras andeverything. We're cooking up next.
Until next time, I'm GeorgeDuran. Stay hungry.