This episode goes deep on exotic meats and the strange lengths people go to for food — starting with a website that sells, wait for it, opossum tail (just the tail). George and Feel Good Foodie's Yumna Jawad work their way through yak filet mignon, giraffe hot dogs, zebra sausage, and George's own unwitting run-in with cat meat at a childhood baseball game. From there, they get into the FDA's official "food defect levels" — the surprisingly specific amount of mold, insect fragments, and rodent hair the government allows in your ketchup and spices — before tackling the eternal restaurant question: is it ever okay to send food back?
The back half brings in Nocca founders Nicholas Wooller and Alessandro Sitá to talk gnocchi, Italian-American cuisine, and whether Cheetos-flavored gnocchi is a crime or a vibe.
Takeaways:
- Exotic meats are legal to sell in the U.S. as long as the animal isn't endangered and it's processed through an approved system — which is how yak, zebra, giraffe, and lion meat end up for sale online.
- Food is a love language: in Yumna's Lebanese household, "are you hungry?" was how her parents said "I love you."
- The FDA's food defect levels handbook permits things like up to 1,250 insect fragments per 10g of ground oregano, or 11 rodent hairs per 10g of ground sage — before a product gets pulled.
- George's take on restaurant menu language: "whipped," "aioli," and "chiffonade" are just marketing markup on mashed potatoes, mayo, and thin slices.
- Yumna sends food back for real problems (wrong temperature, wrong doneness, allergens) but not for minor stuff like a slightly overcooked side.
- Nocca's founders talk building a modern food brand around gnocchi — including a preservative-free, shelf-stable version developed with university research — and how far Italian-American cuisine has drifted from its regional roots.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies and people mentioned in this episode:
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This website sells opossum tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
I don't know what happens tothe rest of the opossum, but at least
you can eat the tail.
Okay, that's good.
Welcome back to the AlwaysHangry podcast, where we break down
the way we eat. The good, thebad, and the completely ridiculous.
I'm your host, George Duran.On today's show, we're diving into
(00:23):
exotic meats and the one thingwe absolutely refuse to put in our
mouths. The then we'll uncovertiny contaminants the FDA says are
perfectly acceptable. And isit ever okay to send food back to
the kitchen, or are you justasking for trouble? Finally, I sit
down with two gnocchi expertsto discuss why this little potato
pillow has become a seriousobsession. Joining me today is Yumna
(00:47):
Jawad. You've probably seenher wildly popular social media posts
from Feel Good Foodie, whereshe's built a following of close
to 10 million people makinghealthy food that looks dangerously
craveable. Yumna, thanks a lotfor being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Tell me more about youraddiction to food. Anyone that comes
here has some sort of, like,issues with food, Right? What is
(01:07):
your relationship to food?
I am definitely addicted tofood. I'm a big foodie, and I think
I just grew up with food atthe center of our table all the time.
As the Lebanese house, we showour love with food. Breakfast, lunch,
and dinner. Everything wasmade from scratch by my mom. And
that's just how she showed usshe loved us again.
And I told you that my parentswere born and raised in Lebanon,
(01:28):
so we had a lot of LebaneseArmenian cuisine at home as well.
Boy, it was like, the only wayto say I love you.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
My parents couldn't say I loveyou to me.
Oh, yeah. No, no, no.
They said, are you hungry?
Yes, exactly. I'll make yousome. I'll make you a sandwich. That
meant, like, I love you somuch. I passed the test. My mom's
like, let me make you cake.
Yes. What is the ultimatecomfort food from your mom? Like,
the thing that you need to have.
(01:49):
The thing that I need to havefor my mom would be, I think, when
she makes a little kibbeh andyogurt sauce.
Yes.
But she doesn'. That's whyI'm, like, thinking about it. And
then also stuffed. Stuffedgrape leaves as well. So those are
the two big ones, but theyjust take so much time, so she doesn't
make them in a while.
Yeah. Do you Feel that becauseyou have, like so many different
palettes, let's put it thatway. Lebanese, African, now American.
(02:11):
Who knows what else you have.Do you think your palate is more
refined than your average American?
I think so, yeah. I think sofor sure.
So you're welcoming moreflavors from international world,
spicy stuff. You're willing totry more things than anyone else,
right?
Maybe. Okay.
All right. You know what?
I would say I'm moreadventurous when it comes to spices
(02:32):
and flavors than things.
Yeah. What kind of meats didyou grow up eating?
We grew up eating very normalmeats. There wasn't anything too
crazy.
There was no oxtail?
No. We didn't eat anythingcrazy like that. Okay. It was chicken
and beef.
That's very normal. So what isthe most exotic meat you've eaten?
I think I was in Turkey lastyear and I had beef tongue. I think
(02:54):
that was the most exotic as itgets for me.
That's common, actually.
It's common, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do thata lot here on sandwiches and stuff.
To me, it was like, exotic,but, yeah, that's the most exotic.
It's been something that'sbeen living in the mouth of a cow
that I don't think I can eat.
Yeah, it was really strange,but it was a Michelin star restaurant.
And the waiter whispered tome, like, how amazing it is and that
I won't regret it. And Itrusted him.
Yeah, I've eaten horse meat.
(03:15):
Oh, how's that?
Well, in France, it was verycommon back in the 1860s or in World
War I and II, they had tostart eating horse instead of cows.
So it's very common. So theyhad these horse butchers everywhere.
And so when I went there inthe 90s as an exchange program, there
was horse meat, horse meatbutchers everywhere. And even today,
you can walk into a largersupermarket in France and there's
(03:37):
a little section, there's apoultry, the beef, the pork, horse
and horse. Horse. Wow.
I didn't know that.
And I tasted it.
Yeah.
And it was not good. First ofall, I was eating horse and I had
to try it. I have to tryeverything. It was a little musty,
maybe a little sweet. It wasbizarre. And I think psychologically
I was just not. It wasn'thitting me.
(03:58):
What's the texture like?
Well, it was a burger, so Idon't know what the texture is. True.
Like, I hear it's kind oftough as well. So again. But they
still have it there. It's avery common thing. People who seek
it in Fact, I spoke to aFrench butcher one time, and I said,
do you have horse meat? And hesaid, we are starting to respect
these animals now. And westopped serving horse.
Oh, wow.
(04:18):
But you can still find them inFrance. Wow. Interesting. Would you
try it?
I would not try it.
Yeah. You know, in the UnitedStates, I have a really interesting
fact here, is that you canactually buy exotic meats.
Yeah.
There's a law that allows youto buy exotic meats as long as they're
not an endangered species.
Okay.
As long as they're notprotected by wildlife laws.
Okay.
And they must be processedthrough approved agricultural systems.
(04:42):
Sounds fair.
And there are somesupermarkets that you can go to and
find some interesting meats.Wild Fork, by the way, is one of
them. It's a frozen foodcompany, and they send you these
meats. They have bison, wholerabbit. Have you had any of these?
Nope.
Okay. Whole rabbit isfantastic. It's very fresh.
Yeah, I've heard good thingsabout rabbit.
Ostrich.
Okay.
It's lean. It's very nice.Elk, they have alligator and even
(05:03):
kangaroo.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. Ground kangaroo. Wow.
Ground kangaroo.
Yeah. And then I started doingsome research, and there's this website
online calledexoticmeatmarket.com. You've never
been there, have you?
Nope, I have not.
Okay, so they have, like, thewild boar, the bison, the elk, the
alligator. But here are someof the crazier meats that this website
has. Ready? Yak filet mignon.
(05:25):
Yak.
Yak, yeah. Like llama.Kangaroo. Llama. Pepperoni.
Okay.
Yeah. Llama tongue. It's nobeef tongue.
Yeah, it's no beef tongue.Might be a little different texture
maybe. Yeah, yeah.
It's a different size of mouthas well. Yeah. They sell camel meat.
Okay. Camel meat feels likeit's something that they do in, like,
(05:49):
in the Middle east somewhere.In some certain places, I think they.
Have a meat from camels. It'scalled camelicious Camel New York
steaks. It sounds camelliciousto me.
Yeah, it sounds camelicious.
They also sell camel milk powder.
Okay. Wow. In case you'redesperate for some camel milk.
Well, I mean, I didn't knowyou could turn camel milk into something
(06:10):
that's edible powder form.They sell whole doves.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah. You're trying that.
Nope, I'm not trying that one.
I mean, you haven't tried aCornish hen. The whole dove would
be just smaller.
That's true.
Okay. Whole iguana.
Oh, no. I can't even do thelie. I can't even, like, go by the
Real life ones. Not eating adead one.
(06:30):
Rattlesnake.
Ooh.
It's common here in the USI've seen people eat rattlesnake.
I've heard that they sellpython on this website.
Oh, yeah. Interesting. I am sonot hungry anymore.
Here's where it gets crazier.Are you ready for this?
Maybe.
This website sells beaver meat.
Oh, my gosh.
In sausage form. Don't worry.
Okay.
(06:51):
Opossum tail.
I mean, you eat just the tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
I don't know what happens tothe rest of the opossum, but at least
you can eat the tail.
Okay, that's good.
Bobcat sausage.
Okay.
This is in the United States.
Wow.
Yeah. Giraffe hot dogs.
Oh, the different cuts are sointeresting to me. It's just like
(07:13):
giraffe hot dogs. Not giraffebeef. Like, not giraffe like ground
giraffe.
Like, well, at the minimum,giraffe neck.
Yeah, yeah, what about that?
There's a lot of meat there.Apparently they sell zebra meat on
this website.
Okay.
Yeah. Creole zebra sausage.
Okay.
Yeah. They're not striped.
They're just one color.
Yeah. And finally, this onejust shocked me. Lion meat.
(07:36):
Lion meat.
As long as you can see thatit's not an endangered species and
they're raised in a farm.Apparently you can sell all these
kinds of meat in the United States.
Wow, that's so interesting.
Yeah.
I will not be visiting thatwebsite anytime soon.
If you do, it's calledexoticmeatmarcus.com. You can get
the meat of the month club aswell. So Sausage of the Month club.
(07:58):
I'm not sure.
Why are you doing it? Are you subscribing?
I like my beef, I like my poultry.
Yeah, you're good withthat.Very safe.
Yeah, I'll maybe go to, like, bison.
Yeah.
I'll tell you one thing. Igrew up in Venezuela, okay. We used
to go to this baseball stadiumall the time. Every, every weekend,
constantly go there. And theywould sell these meat skewers before
(08:20):
you get into the baseballstadium. They were delicious. Mini
meat skewers. A little AREPAon the side of it, too.
Yeah.
And one day on the news, therewas breaking news that next to the
stadium, they busted a cat farm.
Oh, my gosh.
And the next day, we had abaseball game to go to, and those
guys were gone.
Oh, no.
I have eaten cat meat.
(08:41):
Oh, no.
Unbeknownst to me, I've eatencat meat.
Oh, no. See, that's why youcan't trust meat at a Baseball game.
What are you doing to justeven having meat there?
I mean, there was no sign thatthere were cats anywhere meowing
or anything like that.
That's because they were dead.
They busted that farm. So Ihave technically eaten cat meat.
(09:03):
Yeah. That's really exciting.
You don't want to ask me howit tastes?
How did it taste? You probablydidn't know it was cat meat, so probably
just tastes like chicken.
It tasted delicious.
Oh, really?
Yeah, man. It was like, very.I just remember as a kid.
Did it have barbecue sauce on it?
No, no, no. It tastes likereally lean beef, but very concentrated
in flavor. I will never do itagain. I've owned cats. I love cats
(09:25):
so much, and the idea ofeating one is impossible for me.
But I have eaten cat meats.
But now, you know you'veeaten. You've checked that off your
list.
Checked it off my list. Nextup, zebra. Yeah.
You just gotta figure out away to.
Yeah. You go to restaurants a lot?
I do, yes.
Yeah. And what kind of cuisinedo you have?
Not that much, actually.
Yeah. And are there sometimesyou go to a restaurant and the food
just isn't good. Does thathappen ever?
(09:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'sbound to happen.
Yes. Have you ever foundsomething in your food that shouldn't
be there?
I think we've all found a hairor so. Definitely found a piece of
hair. And I think it's. It'sone of those things where, like,
once you see it, you can'tunsee it. And you just like. Then
everybody at the table starts,like, becoming an investigator. And
(10:07):
everyone is, like, looking attheir own food too, and trying to
figure out is their hair andtheirs. And all of a sudden, I mean,
we're all just like, doneeating at that point, you know, and
it's just a piece of hair.
What's interesting is that theFDA has this food defect levels handbook.
It's a handbook that prettymuch allows you to go to a certain
threshold with the ingredientsand what's inside of it when it's
considered a defect.
(10:29):
Wow.
So there's only so much ofsomething that can a food can have
according to the fda.
Yeah.
So I went on their website. Iwent on the FDA website to find out
what this food defect levelhandbook is. And according to them,
ketchup can have a mold countof up to 55%.
Wow.
I don't know what that means.
That's a lot of mold.
And that's a lot of ketchup.
(10:49):
Yeah.
That goes to waste. If it has54%, it's fine.
Yeah, 55%.
No, they recall it. 10 gramsof ground oregano can have up to
1250 insect fragments.
What?
When it has 1249, it's okay.It's fine.
Yeah.
1250.
It's not allowed.
(11:10):
Pull it off the shelf. 50grams of ground cinnamon can have
up to 400 insect fragments.Or. Or.
Where are these insects coming from?
Listen to me. Or 11 rodent hairs.
Ooh. It's very specific.
Very. Because if they find 10,that cinnamon is going straight into
your cinnamon roll. Yeah, nota problem. But if there's an 11th
(11:31):
hair of a rodent in there, atleast the FDA is there to protect
it.
And what about cat hair? It'slike rodent hair is the only one
that's specified.
It's specified. Just rodent.
Just rodent hair.
Yeah. 10 grams of ground sage.Nine rodent hares.
Nine rodent hares.
So it's a little stricter thanteeny meeny miny moe.
We'll go with nine for this one.
Yeah. 100 grams of canned ordried mushrooms. No more than 20
(11:55):
maggots or no more than 75 mites.
Wow.
So if there's 74 mites in thatcan of mushroom, you're good to go.
It's totally okay.
Good to go.
I feel so good. I feel so goodabout the food. Food laws right now.
I don't think anyone will eatmushrooms after this.
No.
And finally, a cup of cinnamon.
(12:15):
I don't even want to eatcinnamon now either. I love cinnamon.
Yeah, well, I'm gonna check mycinnamon. I'm gonna pass it through
a refined cinnamon.
Oh, yeah. I'm sifting throughthat cinnamon from now on.
Finally, a cup of cannedcitrus juice can have no more than
five. Wait for it. Fly eggs.
Wow.
Yeah.
Fly eggs. Yeah, that's.There's the chance of that coming
(12:37):
into your orange juice.
Well, citrus juice.
Yeah.
And it's a cup of it.
Citrus. Okay.
Yeah. So if there's four eggs,it's okay. Drink up.
It's good protein, Probably.
Yes. Five fly eggs.
No way.
Get it off that shelf.
Get it off that shelf. It'snot FDA approved.
No, it's not FDA approved.It's an interesting website. It's
(12:57):
a food defects level handbook.
Interesting.
(13:20):
Yeah. All right, let's take aquick break. When we come back, we'll
expose why restaurant menusmake mashed potatoes sound like a
religious experience. Then,should you ever complain about a
bad meal? Or is silence thesafer option? And later on, two gnocchi.
Experts try to convince Methat these little blobs of dough
deserve all the hype. Allright, I want to go back to talking
(13:46):
about restaurants becausethere are a lot of restaurants here
in New York City. Anything inparticular you seek for when you
come to New York City?
Oh, I'm just. I. It's soexciting here. I'm open to anything
and everything. Yeah, I tryto, you know, look at TikTok and
see what's hot. I try to talkto some friends and. Yeah. But I
love trying different restaurants.
When you go to, like, TikTokand you look for restaurants, are
you looking for. Are youlooking at the food or the way to
(14:08):
describe it or their ratings?What are you looking for? Because
sometimes I just cannot trustthese people.
I know. And I'm. I'm reallylooking at, like, the ambiance. A
lot of times whenever I'm onvacation, I'm away from home, I'm
looking at the ambiance, butI'm also looking at what the plate
looks like itself. But thensometimes I'll go online, I'll read
the menu just to feel like,okay, what is it showing me and what
is it actually telling me?There is. And just to kind of compare
(14:31):
the two.
Well, that's interesting yousay about the menu, because I've
had some issues with somemenus. And I recently went to a steakhouse,
a high end steakhouse, and Ihad to write this down. They had
a side dish, and it was calledhand whipped yukon gold potatoes
kissed with cultured butter.Do you know what it was? It was mashed
potatoes.
Mashed potatoes.
That's all it was.
(14:51):
The word whipped, I think, isone of those words where whip anything
and it just sounds so muchmore fancy. Just.
And that's my problem with alot of these, like the French words.
You add a French word inthere, like aioli, which is garlic
mayo.
Yeah. Mayonnaise. If you can'tsay. If you say mayonnaise, it's
just. It's worth $2.
Yeah.
But if you say aioli, youcould charge $19.
Thank you very much. Veloute.
(15:13):
Veloute.
Veloute is a soup.
Oh, okay.
So you're just eating soup.Hey, you want some tomato soup or
would you like veloute detomate? Yeah.
Which is a sauce, basically.
That's it.
It's just a sauce.
A freaking sauce.
Even Compote. Compote, yes.Compote jam.
Thank you. Chiffonade.
Chiffonade.
It's a fantastic word.
(15:33):
I love it. I do love that word.
It just Means it's thinlysliced, my friend.
Yes, exactly. Or at the end,we're going to.
Bump up that price for youbecause we put that chiffonade in
there.
Exactly.
So I'm going to play a littlegame with you over here. I've come
up with some luxuriouslyexaggerated menu items. I want to
see if you can guess what I'mtalking about.
Oh, okay.
All right. This is what Iwould put in my restaurant just to
up the prices.
Okay.
(15:53):
Tell me if you can figure outwhat exactly this food item is.
Okay.
Whipped chickpea emulsion withtahini and smoked paprika hummus.
Yes. Artisan.
There's the word whipped again.
Thank you. Artisan. Hand cutpommes frite accompanied by roasted
garlic aioli.
French fries with mayo.
(16:15):
Correct. Slow simmered vineripened tomato reduction over heritage
wheat pasta ribbons.
Spaghetti.
Spaghetti and tomato sauce.Very good.
Spaghetti and tomato sauce.That's funny.
Crisped cured pork belly atopcage free organic egg medallions.
I'm not good with pork. Is itlike ham and ch. Say it again.
(16:38):
Crisp cured pork belly atopcage free organic egg medallions.
This is just eggs and bacon.
That's it. Bacon and eggs. Yes.
I was like cured pork. Whatdoes that mean? Yeah, I'm not good
with the pork references.
Fire charred artisanal doughlayered with hand pulled mozzarella
and crushed San Marzanoessence cheese bread.
(17:01):
Cheese sticks.
Keep going. Flatter, rounder.
Flatter rounder.
In the oven. Submarizano.
Oh, pizza.
Yes.
Oh, just pizza. Just pizza.I'm looking for the tomato sauce.
I know. It's a sarmazanotomatoes. And finally, warm breakfast
souffle discs with tree tappedamber reduction.
(17:24):
Pancakes with. With treetopswith honey. Yes.
No, no Amber reduction.
Oh, maple syrup.
Thank you very much. Yes,thank you.
Yes.
I will be opening up arestaurant soon and I will be listing
all of these.
You can charge all. Yeah, youcan triple charge with. With those
fancy names. Absolutely.
Love it. Love it.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Allright, so I want to know your experiences
(17:47):
in restaurants. So do peopleactually come up to you and say at
the restaurants and they'relike, oh, my gosh, feel good food.
I love it. What do they thinkwhen you walk in?
Yeah, I do get recognized morenow, especially because of TikTok.
I think it's like people getTikTok famous and so people come
up to me and like, oh, mygosh, feel good foodie. Can you say
the catchphrase? I'm like, sogood. And so I just humor them. Take
a picture.
You know, one of the biggestissues I have in restaurants is that
(18:09):
sometimes when the food isn'tgood, you. You have to send it back.
But do you ever. Do you eversend food back at restaurants?
I always do. If I'm notsatisfied, like, if there's something,
like, I don't have a problemsending food back, and if there's
something that's actuallywrong with it. So if I. If I ate,
like, 85% of it, I'm not goingto send it back. But if it's cold
when it was supposed to behot, if it was cooked to a different
(18:32):
way, then I asked for it to becooked, if there's something in there
that I don't eat, like pork,for example, I will be sending it
back. And then the problem,though, is as soon as I do, my husband
feels, like, super nervous,and he feels like we need to get
out of the restaurant asquickly as possible. So whenever
the dish comes again, he'slike, eat fast. We are running out
of here. No one's orderingdessert like we're running, because
he gets embarrassed for me.I'm like, why? I. I need to be happy
(18:55):
with my meal.
Now. That's the risk you takewith some of these restaurants, is
that you never know if they'regonna sneeze on it Exactly.
By accident.
So I'll just eat it.
So, yeah, that's what myhusband says. And I'm like, well,
no, I'm just gonna try my bestand be really nice about it and tell
them what I ordered.
And so there are differentsituations. Like if I buy an expensive
filet mignon, for example, andit's not cooked medium rare the way
I like it, or even rare, forthat matter. Yeah, I gotta send it
(19:18):
back.
You have to. Yeah, but absolutely.
Again, I'm worried there'sgonna be a little bit of an emulsion
in there.
Yes.
Whatever came out of this guy.
Emulsion is one of those,like, fancy words for just spit.
Yeah. So we're gonna play alittle game. Are you ready for this?
Yes.
It's called I'll just eat itor send it back.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you certainsituations in a restaurant that can
(19:40):
happen to you, and I want toknow if you would eat it or send
it back. Ready, Raw orundercooked Chicken.
Send it back.
Yeah, you do.
100%. We're getting sickeating that.
Yeah.
Yes, of course. Yes. If it'spink, I'm not eating it.
Unless it's steak.
Unless it's steak.
Yes.
I Will eat pink steak.
Okay. Wrong temperature steak.
(20:01):
I'll just eat it.
Soggy fries.
Send it back. They need to becrispy. Yeah.
All right.
Yeah. What's the point? Youhave to enjoy the carbs and the calories.
If I am taking in those carbsand the calories, it needs to be
worth it.
Yeah, but you can put enoughketchup in there that it'll taste
good.
No. And then just, like,limping the.
Hey, nothing wrong with that.Wilted lettuce.
(20:23):
I'll just eat it.
Come on.
Yeah.
You're not a cow.
I know, but I'm just like,well, it's fine. It's the same. It's
not worth it. That's the kindof thing they're going to spit on
for you. Because wilted to memay not be wilted to them.
Like, wait, what if the saladcomes and it's wilted? You're going
to keep eating that salad?
Yeah. It's not worth. It's notworth the spit because they can easily
(20:45):
mix that spit with thedressing. Like, that's not worth
it to me.
Yeah. I don't know. I thinkit's worth the spit. It could be
tasty.
It almost has to be, like,worth the spit. Or not.
Yeah. Right. Overcooked pasta.
Mm. I'll send it back.
Really?
Yeah, because it's mushy andit just, like. It ruins the texture.
(21:05):
And then you just, like, yourmouth just starts to, like, get all,
like, weird. I can't.
What kind of pasta are you eating?
I think it needs to be aldente. It needs to be. I just came
back from Italy, too, soyou're asking me at the wrong time.
Maybe ask me in six months andI won't be as picky.
Right. Like, Mac and cheese,Overcooked macaroni.
Just slurp it down. Fine. Exactly.
All right, I'm eating it.Personally, I'm eating it.
Okay.
(21:25):
Too spicy. Like, overly spicy?
It depends if I'm crying. If Istart crying, I'm sending it back.
If I. If I'm not crying, I'mgood. I can. I can handle a little
bit. I mean, I grew up inAfrica. They used to drop, like,
whole peppers inside of stews,and my mom would always make a separate
one for me because I can'thandle it too much. But I've definitely
eaten some really spicy.
Food, but the portions are toosmall. Would you.
(21:47):
I'll just eat it, suck it up,and go somewhere else to eat afterwards.
Or order two desserts.
You're too kind. You're Toonice burnt pizza.
Ugh. I can't do the burntpizza because my mom's voice starts
going in my head about, like,oh, the. What is it? The carcinogens
of anything black. You're notsupposed to eat black food. So I
feel like her voice is what'stelling me to send it back.
(22:09):
I would send it back too. Imean, a whole piece is burnt, and
they do that because theydon't know the temperature of the
oven.
And sometimes they're notcleaning it well too. So there's,
like, things in there thatflare up and cause that. So it's
their fault. They should notbe burning that pizza. Like maggots
and maggots and rabbit hair.
Okay, very good. And finally,if it smells weird, 100%,.
(22:30):
We're sending it back. Yes. Ihave a thing about smells. I can't.
I can't deal with that.
Yes. This is fantastic. I'mreally glad he came on the show.
Yumna Jawad. Thank you somuch. Feel Good Foodie is the social
media site.
Yes.
And online, they can find you where.
Feel Good Foodie everywhere.I'm on Instagram and TikTok and the
website and all over.
And check out her book too. Itlooks fantastic. Your food is fantastic.
(22:52):
Congratulations on having somany followers.
Thank you so much.
Next time, 20 millionfollowers. Let's take over the world.
Yeah. And next time, let'stalk about something more appetizing.
Oh, we always talk aboutappetizing things. Thanks a lot for
being on the show.
Thank you so much, George.
(23:28):
All right, after the break,I'll sit down with with two Italians
to settle one of life's mostimportant debates. What makes the
perfect gnocchi? We'll beright back. Welcome back. My guests
today are Nicholas Wooler andAlessandro Sita, founders of Nocca,
a company that's trying to dosomething almost nobody else has
(23:49):
done. Build a modern foodbrand around gnocchi. Not pizza,
not pasta, not gelato.Gnocchi. They've launched packaged
products, opened a restaurantin New York City, and somehow decided
that betting on potatodumplings was less risky than a normal
career. Alex and Nick, thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you. Good to be here.
(24:09):
Hey, George, why gnocchi?
It's convenient. It'sdelicious. As we were running the
ground, we found out that notmany people were had an opportunity
to be exposed to that yet. Solet's do something, you know, interesting.
Yeah. And the conveniencepart, like, I mean, gnocchi is so
easy to prepare. Once it'sprepared, of course. So you can easily
(24:29):
freeze it or just have a premade. I mean I've seen gnocchi at
the supermarket outside arefrigerator. Are those okay to eat?
Yes, yes, that's ours. So weactually worked a lot on the recipe
and we worked with theuniversity to create the first preservative
free gnocchi that can stay outof the fridge. So you have a real
Italian recipe. Great, greattaste. And yes, like you said, it's
(24:53):
a two minute preparation. Soeverybody can prepare those gnocch
and very difficult to mess up.
Can you trust a pasta companythat doesn't have someone who has
some sort of Italian accent?
Not too much.
What do you think aboutAmericans taking something like higher
end cuisine, like Italiancuisine from Italy and giving it
(25:14):
their own kind of twist to itor starting there? How did that all
happen?
Well, you know, I'm Italian,but I think now it's 15 years. When
I came in the US I wasshocked, to be honest. The way they
cook the pasta, the type ofsauce they put, they're mixing everything.
I have to be honest. I thinkit's a great thing. And we need that
(25:34):
wake up call as Italianbecause sometimes we so stuck in
tradition, us allow us to mixeverything and sometimes, you know,
when you try to mix and makeexperiment, there's great things
that come out. So I'm prettyhappy personally of what's happening
in the US food scene right now.
Yeah, I've never heard of astubborn Italian in my life.
Yes, nice to meet you.
Yeah, exactly. Or a snobItalian. I mean, every Italian friend
(25:58):
of mine from Italy, I meantheir motto is the Italians are the
best.
Everybody knows that.
Yeah, except you're not in theWorld Cup.
That hurts.
So, okay, so I understand whatyou think of Italian American cuisine.
And honestly, I think one ofthe reasons that Italian American
cuisine is so different fromItalian cuisine is when the immigrants
(26:20):
came here, there was more ofthat Southern influence. And obviously
the ingredients weren't foundhere as well. There's a lot of reasons
why the cuisine is sodifferent. And also Italy just evolves
into more of a modern, alittle more sophisticated. How did
you have to adapt to therestaurant for that? Or did you kind
of stick more with theAmerican Italian traditions?
So to me, this is a topic thatis very exciting and interesting.
(26:43):
Cuisine has been evolvingeverywhere all the time. So for us,
understanding that early onand having great interest in quality
right at the base ofeverything, there's that the decision
to find the best quality ineverything we do. Embracing change,
embracing adaptation, culturaldemand and all of that. It's exciting.
(27:06):
So when you come to therestaurant, you have what we think
or we believe is the bestrendition of the classics, because
it's good to carry over thatcultural tradition. But at the same
time, we are always open tohear and excited about people, how
they are adapting the productto the way they like it or they want
(27:27):
it. And this is allowing usalso to experiment a lot.
I'm really glad you broughtthis up, because I have some really
interesting food trends that Ialways cover, and I figured out a
few lists of food trends thatmaybe can translate to gnocchi. And
I want your honest reaction tothat, because these are real trends
that are happening here in theUnited States. We're going to play
a little game called gnocchior gnocchi.
(27:47):
Okay.
Meaning I'm not interested.All right, so here it is. Gnocchi
or gnocchi. Movie theaterbutter popcorn. Gnocchi made with
blended popcorn, brown butter powder.
It's a gnocchi for me.
Agreed. Yes.
Oh, this is a good one.Everything bagel, cream cheese, gnocchi.
So you have cream cheese inthe dough. You have that rolled with
(28:08):
everything seasoning on that.
I would probably take theflavor profile of that and maybe
see if we can do somethinggood with gnocchi.
No, thank you.
Flaming hot cheetos. Gnocchicrushing crushed flaming hot cheetos.
Make it spicy.
I can see that one.
Yeah, I would think so.
(28:29):
Yeah, I can see that one.
You put flaming hot Cheetos onanything, sure will eat it. Sure.
The Mexicans did it with acorn, and it's marvelous. Yeah, sure.
The spice is really a bigtrend right now. And it's true. It's.
What if you took it to Italy,do you think they would eat it there?
We would put Calabrian peppersat that point.
Of course. Calabrian Cheetos,Sure. Okay, very good. Hot honey
gnocchi. Hot honey is huge.
(28:49):
Yes, yes, yes.
Big one here. Kimchi gnocchi.
I would see that.
Right?
Maybe I don't know whatkinkychi is.
Okay, well, that's a problem.Yes. Okay. It's fermented cabbage.
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
So I'm going to list a few ofthe American Italian foods here,
and you tell me if you findthese in Italy or not. You ready?
(29:13):
Chicken parm.
No.
Okay. Spaghetti and meatballs.
Yes.
You do have spaghetti andmeatballs? Sure. Okay, Very good.
Fettuccine Alfredo.
Very difficult. It's startingnow. I think the trend came back
from the US Into Italy, thanksto social media. Now there's some
trendy new Italian restaurantI want to propose the Italian American
cuisine from. From Brooklyn. Right.
(29:35):
I mean, if you want to comparethe American cuisine here, I mean,
you're talking about 250 yearsover here compared to what, thousands
of years in Italy. I mean,it's evolved and it's evolved because
of whatever you're growing there.
I think it's broadening theregional presence. Right. So for
many years there's been astrong regional characterization
(29:57):
of Italian food being moretypical or inspired by ingredients
that were more available inthe southern of Italy, for example.
And this belongs to themigration and all of that which has
been more prominent, as yousay, as food becomes more accessible
and the supply chain isproviding the same ingredients we
have in Italy, for example, atthe part of what you will get in
(30:18):
Italy. Yeah, I think theoriginal exploration of Italian food,
it's happening. It's beenhappening for some time. It's not
like it's happening now. Andthe beauty of it is that it gets
here and there's already aninfluence. There are influences from
other cultures too. Right. Wetalk about kimchi gnocchi, for example,
or Cheetos gnocchi. And wewere not too estranged by that because
(30:42):
we know that here it'spossible there's less resistance.
And that's what keeps us, orat least keeps the project we're
working on engaged and one toone with the consumer, which is extremely
exciting.
Do you think we're going tolose the basis of Italian cuisine
or even French cuisine? Do youthink we're going to lose that a
little bit?
I think the staples, theyprove themselves to be extremely
(31:03):
pleasurable for such a longtime that we will always go back
to that. But even the Italianculture, the Italian food culture
that we like to think that wecan span throughout the entire Italian
culture, which, like you said,is thousands of years, but it really
established itself in themodern era where ingredients became
more available, approachable.And we also imported a lot of stuff.
(31:29):
Tomatoes and spaghetti weren'tthere 600 years ago.
And Italian cuisine isextremely regional as well.
Yes.
Is it going to stay regionalfor the coming decades?
There's a lot of resistance.Younger generations are going back
to harvest because it wasdriven by what was available regionally,
which is heavily influenced bywhat you can grow.
(31:50):
And one very, very good thingabout Italian food in general, at
least that's what we're tryingto break the message here. At least
you touching on America andItaly, you don't have to break the
bank to have good Italian foodin Europe here is just starting because
we felt like when we get tothe US you can find very good Italian
food. But it was just like forcertain people, because of the cost,
(32:13):
it's. I mean, everything isexpensive everywhere, I guess, but
not the food. In Italy, youcan eat very well and you don't have
to break the bank. And sothat's, that's the mission. Also
we on quality, but accessibleto everybody.
Yeah. I've never met anItalian from Italy who can't cook.
Is that changing?
Oh, yes, it is. Sometimes Ithink I would say, yes, I can cook.
(32:37):
You still have some gray. So Ican cook. I'm talking about the youth.
Are they going more for thefast food?
So you're saying I'm not thatyoung anymore?
Well, definitely younger thanme. But my point is, is it starting
to trend for the fast foodbecause people have less time or
is it because they're just.
They don't want to learn theconvenience? Yes, for sure.
Well, the convenience isplaying a factor and, but the, the
standard, the bar is high. AndI think businesses in Italy, for
(33:02):
Italians are going an extralength in terms of providing pre
made, prepared, partiallyprepared food that it's. That it's
still nutritious quality andall of that. So there's always a
trade, a trade off. Right. Itdoesn't matter really what you're
having. Right. I mean, it isprimary, the quality of what you're
(33:24):
having, but it's secondary.How true to what you had as a children
is.
I don't know. I like where Iam here. And as long as I can bring
some of that Italian love andculture, and that's what I love about
Italian Americans. They arebringing that social aspect of cuisine
into their home. That familytable is massive in the Italian American
home, and I love that morethan anything else. Even if you're
(33:46):
not serving turkey forThanksgiving, there's going to be
a lot of food and a lot of people.
Exactly. And a lot of fun.
So tell me a little bit aboutNoka. Noka is in 250 Mott street
here in New York City. You'reserving gnocchi. You have a pomodoro,
vodka pesto, caciopep,carbonara, bolognese. Simple.
We're strong believers thatyou can do very well a few things
at a time. So we are very dedicated.
(34:07):
Yeah. And gnocchi. Gnocchi,which is your gnocchi that you sell
at the markets or the supermarkets?
Yes.
Where do we find that?
So we are expandingdistribution and the restaurant is
helping. Also, sometimespeople may not know what gnocchi
is. We've been talking with alot of people that never tried before
(34:27):
or can't pronounce it or can'tpronounce it, or they know what it
is. They don't know if theylike it. But now we have other consumers
more adventurous or those wholike gnocchi already and they want
to try it that are vouchingfor what we're doing.
Yeah. Well, Nicolas Wooler andAlessandro Sita. Noka is the name
of the restaurant. NoccaGnocchi is the name of the gnocchi.
(34:49):
You can find them@nocca co n oc c a co. Right, correct.
Correct.
And you can find out wherethey sell it. I look forward to tasting
some of your gnocchi.
Yes. And you have to try thenew Amatriana just came out. Delicious.
If I knew what amatricianawas, I would probably love it.
Yeah, it's there. We lookforward to seeing you there.
Thank you so much, guys.Thanks for being on the show.
Thank you, George.
And for all our listeners outthere, thanks for hanging with us.
(35:11):
Follow us on the Always Hangrypodcast, wherever you get your podcasts.
And Visitus@alwayshangrypodcast.com for episodes,
updates, and much more. I'mGeorge Duran. Until next time, stay
hungry.
This website sells opossum tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
I don't know what happens tothe rest of the opossum, but at least
you can eat the tail.
Okay, that's good.
Welcome back to the AlwaysHangry podcast, where we break down
the way we eat. The good, thebad, and the completely ridiculous.
I'm your host, George Duran.On today's show, we're diving into
(00:23):
exotic meats and the one thingwe absolutely refuse to put in our
mouths. The then we'll uncovertiny contaminants the FDA says are
perfectly acceptable. And isit ever okay to send food back to
the kitchen, or are you justasking for trouble? Finally, I sit
down with two gnocchi expertsto discuss why this little potato
pillow has become a seriousobsession. Joining me today is Yumna
(00:47):
Jawad. You've probably seenher wildly popular social media posts
from Feel Good Foodie, whereshe's built a following of close
to 10 million people makinghealthy food that looks dangerously
craveable. Yumna, thanks a lotfor being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Tell me more about youraddiction to food. Anyone that comes
here has some sort of, like,issues with food, Right? What is
(01:07):
your relationship to food?
I am definitely addicted tofood. I'm a big foodie, and I think
I just grew up with food atthe center of our table all the time.
As the Lebanese house, we showour love with food. Breakfast, lunch,
and dinner. Everything wasmade from scratch by my mom. And
that's just how she showed usshe loved us again.
And I told you that my parentswere born and raised in Lebanon,
(01:28):
so we had a lot of LebaneseArmenian cuisine at home as well.
Boy, it was like, the only wayto say I love you.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
My parents couldn't say I loveyou to me.
Oh, yeah. No, no, no.
They said, are you hungry?
Yes, exactly. I'll make yousome. I'll make you a sandwich. That
meant, like, I love you somuch. I passed the test. My mom's
like, let me make you cake.
Yes. What is the ultimatecomfort food from your mom? Like,
the thing that you need to have.
(01:49):
The thing that I need to havefor my mom would be, I think, when
she makes a little kibbeh andyogurt sauce.
Yes.
But she doesn'. That's whyI'm, like, thinking about it. And
then also stuffed. Stuffedgrape leaves as well. So those are
the two big ones, but theyjust take so much time, so she doesn't
make them in a while.
Yeah. Do you Feel that becauseyou have, like so many different
palettes, let's put it thatway. Lebanese, African, now American.
(02:11):
Who knows what else you have.Do you think your palate is more
refined than your average American?
I think so, yeah. I think sofor sure.
So you're welcoming moreflavors from international world,
spicy stuff. You're willing totry more things than anyone else,
right?
Maybe. Okay.
All right. You know what?
I would say I'm moreadventurous when it comes to spices
(02:32):
and flavors than things.
Yeah. What kind of meats didyou grow up eating?
We grew up eating very normalmeats. There wasn't anything too
crazy.
There was no oxtail?
No. We didn't eat anythingcrazy like that. Okay. It was chicken
and beef.
That's very normal. So what isthe most exotic meat you've eaten?
I think I was in Turkey lastyear and I had beef tongue. I think
(02:54):
that was the most exotic as itgets for me.
That's common, actually.
It's common, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do thata lot here on sandwiches and stuff.
To me, it was like, exotic,but, yeah, that's the most exotic.
It's been something that'sbeen living in the mouth of a cow
that I don't think I can eat.
Yeah, it was really strange,but it was a Michelin star restaurant.
And the waiter whispered tome, like, how amazing it is and that
I won't regret it. And Itrusted him.
Yeah, I've eaten horse meat.
(03:15):
Oh, how's that?
Well, in France, it was verycommon back in the 1860s or in World
War I and II, they had tostart eating horse instead of cows.
So it's very common. So theyhad these horse butchers everywhere.
And so when I went there inthe 90s as an exchange program, there
was horse meat, horse meatbutchers everywhere. And even today,
you can walk into a largersupermarket in France and there's
(03:37):
a little section, there's apoultry, the beef, the pork, horse
and horse. Horse. Wow.
I didn't know that.
And I tasted it.
Yeah.
And it was not good. First ofall, I was eating horse and I had
to try it. I have to tryeverything. It was a little musty,
maybe a little sweet. It wasbizarre. And I think psychologically
I was just not. It wasn'thitting me.
(03:58):
What's the texture like?
Well, it was a burger, so Idon't know what the texture is. True.
Like, I hear it's kind oftough as well. So again. But they
still have it there. It's avery common thing. People who seek
it in Fact, I spoke to aFrench butcher one time, and I said,
do you have horse meat? And hesaid, we are starting to respect
these animals now. And westopped serving horse.
Oh, wow.
(04:18):
But you can still find them inFrance. Wow. Interesting. Would you
try it?
I would not try it.
Yeah. You know, in the UnitedStates, I have a really interesting
fact here, is that you canactually buy exotic meats.
Yeah.
There's a law that allows youto buy exotic meats as long as they're
not an endangered species.
Okay.
As long as they're notprotected by wildlife laws.
Okay.
And they must be processedthrough approved agricultural systems.
(04:42):
Sounds fair.
And there are somesupermarkets that you can go to and
find some interesting meats.Wild Fork, by the way, is one of
them. It's a frozen foodcompany, and they send you these
meats. They have bison, wholerabbit. Have you had any of these?
Nope.
Okay. Whole rabbit isfantastic. It's very fresh.
Yeah, I've heard good thingsabout rabbit.
Ostrich.
Okay.
It's lean. It's very nice.Elk, they have alligator and even
(05:03):
kangaroo.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. Ground kangaroo. Wow.
Ground kangaroo.
Yeah. And then I started doingsome research, and there's this website
online calledexoticmeatmarket.com. You've never
been there, have you?
Nope, I have not.
Okay, so they have, like, thewild boar, the bison, the elk, the
alligator. But here are someof the crazier meats that this website
has. Ready? Yak filet mignon.
(05:25):
Yak.
Yak, yeah. Like llama.Kangaroo. Llama. Pepperoni.
Okay.
Yeah. Llama tongue. It's nobeef tongue.
Yeah, it's no beef tongue.Might be a little different texture
maybe. Yeah, yeah.
It's a different size of mouthas well. Yeah. They sell camel meat.
Okay. Camel meat feels likeit's something that they do in, like,
(05:49):
in the Middle east somewhere.In some certain places, I think they.
Have a meat from camels. It'scalled camelicious Camel New York
steaks. It sounds camelliciousto me.
Yeah, it sounds camelicious.
They also sell camel milk powder.
Okay. Wow. In case you'redesperate for some camel milk.
Well, I mean, I didn't knowyou could turn camel milk into something
(06:10):
that's edible powder form.They sell whole doves.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah. You're trying that.
Nope, I'm not trying that one.
I mean, you haven't tried aCornish hen. The whole dove would
be just smaller.
That's true.
Okay. Whole iguana.
Oh, no. I can't even do thelie. I can't even, like, go by the
Real life ones. Not eating adead one.
(06:30):
Rattlesnake.
Ooh.
It's common here in the USI've seen people eat rattlesnake.
I've heard that they sellpython on this website.
Oh, yeah. Interesting. I am sonot hungry anymore.
Here's where it gets crazier.Are you ready for this?
Maybe.
This website sells beaver meat.
Oh, my gosh.
In sausage form. Don't worry.
Okay.
(06:51):
Opossum tail.
I mean, you eat just the tail.
Just the tail.
Just the tail.
I don't know what happens tothe rest of the opossum, but at least
you can eat the tail.
Okay, that's good.
Bobcat sausage.
Okay.
This is in the United States.
Wow.
Yeah. Giraffe hot dogs.
Oh, the different cuts are sointeresting to me. It's just like
(07:13):
giraffe hot dogs. Not giraffebeef. Like, not giraffe like ground
giraffe.
Like, well, at the minimum,giraffe neck.
Yeah, yeah, what about that?
There's a lot of meat there.Apparently they sell zebra meat on
this website.
Okay.
Yeah. Creole zebra sausage.
Okay.
Yeah. They're not striped.
They're just one color.
Yeah. And finally, this onejust shocked me. Lion meat.
(07:36):
Lion meat.
As long as you can see thatit's not an endangered species and
they're raised in a farm.Apparently you can sell all these
kinds of meat in the United States.
Wow, that's so interesting.
Yeah.
I will not be visiting thatwebsite anytime soon.
If you do, it's calledexoticmeatmarcus.com. You can get
the meat of the month club aswell. So Sausage of the Month club.
(07:58):
I'm not sure.
Why are you doing it? Are you subscribing?
I like my beef, I like my poultry.
Yeah, you're good withthat.Very safe.
Yeah, I'll maybe go to, like, bison.
Yeah.
I'll tell you one thing. Igrew up in Venezuela, okay. We used
to go to this baseball stadiumall the time. Every, every weekend,
constantly go there. And theywould sell these meat skewers before
(08:20):
you get into the baseballstadium. They were delicious. Mini
meat skewers. A little AREPAon the side of it, too.
Yeah.
And one day on the news, therewas breaking news that next to the
stadium, they busted a cat farm.
Oh, my gosh.
And the next day, we had abaseball game to go to, and those
guys were gone.
Oh, no.
I have eaten cat meat.
(08:41):
Oh, no.
Unbeknownst to me, I've eatencat meat.
Oh, no. See, that's why youcan't trust meat at a Baseball game.
What are you doing to justeven having meat there?
I mean, there was no sign thatthere were cats anywhere meowing
or anything like that.
That's because they were dead.
They busted that farm. So Ihave technically eaten cat meat.
(09:03):
Yeah. That's really exciting.
You don't want to ask me howit tastes?
How did it taste? You probablydidn't know it was cat meat, so probably
just tastes like chicken.
It tasted delicious.
Oh, really?
Yeah, man. It was like, very.I just remember as a kid.
Did it have barbecue sauce on it?
No, no, no. It tastes likereally lean beef, but very concentrated
in flavor. I will never do itagain. I've owned cats. I love cats
(09:25):
so much, and the idea ofeating one is impossible for me.
But I have eaten cat meats.
But now, you know you'veeaten. You've checked that off your
list.
Checked it off my list. Nextup, zebra. Yeah.
You just gotta figure out away to.
Yeah. You go to restaurants a lot?
I do, yes.
Yeah. And what kind of cuisinedo you have?
Not that much, actually.
Yeah. And are there sometimesyou go to a restaurant and the food
just isn't good. Does thathappen ever?
(09:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'sbound to happen.
Yes. Have you ever foundsomething in your food that shouldn't
be there?
I think we've all found a hairor so. Definitely found a piece of
hair. And I think it's. It'sone of those things where, like,
once you see it, you can'tunsee it. And you just like. Then
everybody at the table starts,like, becoming an investigator. And
(10:07):
everyone is, like, looking attheir own food too, and trying to
figure out is their hair andtheirs. And all of a sudden, I mean,
we're all just like, doneeating at that point, you know, and
it's just a piece of hair.
What's interesting is that theFDA has this food defect levels handbook.
It's a handbook that prettymuch allows you to go to a certain
threshold with the ingredientsand what's inside of it when it's
considered a defect.
(10:29):
Wow.
So there's only so much ofsomething that can a food can have
according to the fda.
Yeah.
So I went on their website. Iwent on the FDA website to find out
what this food defect levelhandbook is. And according to them,
ketchup can have a mold countof up to 55%.
Wow.
I don't know what that means.
That's a lot of mold.
And that's a lot of ketchup.
(10:49):
Yeah.
That goes to waste. If it has54%, it's fine.
Yeah, 55%.
No, they recall it. 10 gramsof ground oregano can have up to
1250 insect fragments.
What?
When it has 1249, it's okay.It's fine.
Yeah.
1250.
It's not allowed.
(11:10):
Pull it off the shelf. 50grams of ground cinnamon can have
up to 400 insect fragments.Or. Or.
Where are these insects coming from?
Listen to me. Or 11 rodent hairs.
Ooh. It's very specific.
Very. Because if they find 10,that cinnamon is going straight into
your cinnamon roll. Yeah, nota problem. But if there's an 11th
(11:31):
hair of a rodent in there, atleast the FDA is there to protect
it.
And what about cat hair? It'slike rodent hair is the only one
that's specified.
It's specified. Just rodent.
Just rodent hair.
Yeah. 10 grams of ground sage.Nine rodent hares.
Nine rodent hares.
So it's a little stricter thanteeny meeny miny moe.
We'll go with nine for this one.
Yeah. 100 grams of canned ordried mushrooms. No more than 20
(11:55):
maggots or no more than 75 mites.
Wow.
So if there's 74 mites in thatcan of mushroom, you're good to go.
It's totally okay.
Good to go.
I feel so good. I feel so goodabout the food. Food laws right now.
I don't think anyone will eatmushrooms after this.
No.
And finally, a cup of cinnamon.
(12:15):
I don't even want to eatcinnamon now either. I love cinnamon.
Yeah, well, I'm gonna check mycinnamon. I'm gonna pass it through
a refined cinnamon.
Oh, yeah. I'm sifting throughthat cinnamon from now on.
Finally, a cup of cannedcitrus juice can have no more than
five. Wait for it. Fly eggs.
Wow.
Yeah.
Fly eggs. Yeah, that's.There's the chance of that coming
(12:37):
into your orange juice.
Well, citrus juice.
Yeah.
And it's a cup of it.
Citrus. Okay.
Yeah. So if there's four eggs,it's okay. Drink up.
It's good protein, Probably.
Yes. Five fly eggs.
No way.
Get it off that shelf.
Get it off that shelf. It'snot FDA approved.
No, it's not FDA approved.It's an interesting website. It's
(12:57):
a food defects level handbook.
Interesting.
(13:20):
Yeah. All right, let's take aquick break. When we come back, we'll
expose why restaurant menusmake mashed potatoes sound like a
religious experience. Then,should you ever complain about a
bad meal? Or is silence thesafer option? And later on, two gnocchi.
Experts try to convince Methat these little blobs of dough
deserve all the hype. Allright, I want to go back to talking
(13:46):
about restaurants becausethere are a lot of restaurants here
in New York City. Anything inparticular you seek for when you
come to New York City?
Oh, I'm just. I. It's soexciting here. I'm open to anything
and everything. Yeah, I tryto, you know, look at TikTok and
see what's hot. I try to talkto some friends and. Yeah. But I
love trying different restaurants.
When you go to, like, TikTokand you look for restaurants, are
you looking for. Are youlooking at the food or the way to
(14:08):
describe it or their ratings?What are you looking for? Because
sometimes I just cannot trustthese people.
I know. And I'm. I'm reallylooking at, like, the ambiance. A
lot of times whenever I'm onvacation, I'm away from home, I'm
looking at the ambiance, butI'm also looking at what the plate
looks like itself. But thensometimes I'll go online, I'll read
the menu just to feel like,okay, what is it showing me and what
is it actually telling me?There is. And just to kind of compare
(14:31):
the two.
Well, that's interesting yousay about the menu, because I've
had some issues with somemenus. And I recently went to a steakhouse,
a high end steakhouse, and Ihad to write this down. They had
a side dish, and it was calledhand whipped yukon gold potatoes
kissed with cultured butter.Do you know what it was? It was mashed
potatoes.
Mashed potatoes.
That's all it was.
(14:51):
The word whipped, I think, isone of those words where whip anything
and it just sounds so muchmore fancy. Just.
And that's my problem with alot of these, like the French words.
You add a French word inthere, like aioli, which is garlic
mayo.
Yeah. Mayonnaise. If you can'tsay. If you say mayonnaise, it's
just. It's worth $2.
Yeah.
But if you say aioli, youcould charge $19.
Thank you very much. Veloute.
(15:13):
Veloute.
Veloute is a soup.
Oh, okay.
So you're just eating soup.Hey, you want some tomato soup or
would you like veloute detomate? Yeah.
Which is a sauce, basically.
That's it.
It's just a sauce.
A freaking sauce.
Even Compote. Compote, yes.Compote jam.
Thank you. Chiffonade.
Chiffonade.
It's a fantastic word.
(15:33):
I love it. I do love that word.
It just Means it's thinlysliced, my friend.
Yes, exactly. Or at the end,we're going to.
Bump up that price for youbecause we put that chiffonade in
there.
Exactly.
So I'm going to play a littlegame with you over here. I've come
up with some luxuriouslyexaggerated menu items. I want to
see if you can guess what I'mtalking about.
Oh, okay.
All right. This is what Iwould put in my restaurant just to
up the prices.
Okay.
(15:53):
Tell me if you can figure outwhat exactly this food item is.
Okay.
Whipped chickpea emulsion withtahini and smoked paprika hummus.
Yes. Artisan.
There's the word whipped again.
Thank you. Artisan. Hand cutpommes frite accompanied by roasted
garlic aioli.
French fries with mayo.
(16:15):
Correct. Slow simmered vineripened tomato reduction over heritage
wheat pasta ribbons.
Spaghetti.
Spaghetti and tomato sauce.Very good.
Spaghetti and tomato sauce.That's funny.
Crisped cured pork belly atopcage free organic egg medallions.
I'm not good with pork. Is itlike ham and ch. Say it again.
(16:38):
Crisp cured pork belly atopcage free organic egg medallions.
This is just eggs and bacon.
That's it. Bacon and eggs. Yes.
I was like cured pork. Whatdoes that mean? Yeah, I'm not good
with the pork references.
Fire charred artisanal doughlayered with hand pulled mozzarella
and crushed San Marzanoessence cheese bread.
(17:01):
Cheese sticks.
Keep going. Flatter, rounder.
Flatter rounder.
In the oven. Submarizano.
Oh, pizza.
Yes.
Oh, just pizza. Just pizza.I'm looking for the tomato sauce.
I know. It's a sarmazanotomatoes. And finally, warm breakfast
souffle discs with tree tappedamber reduction.
(17:24):
Pancakes with. With treetopswith honey. Yes.
No, no Amber reduction.
Oh, maple syrup.
Thank you very much. Yes,thank you.
Yes.
I will be opening up arestaurant soon and I will be listing
all of these.
You can charge all. Yeah, youcan triple charge with. With those
fancy names. Absolutely.
Love it. Love it.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. Allright, so I want to know your experiences
(17:47):
in restaurants. So do peopleactually come up to you and say at
the restaurants and they'relike, oh, my gosh, feel good food.
I love it. What do they thinkwhen you walk in?
Yeah, I do get recognized morenow, especially because of TikTok.
I think it's like people getTikTok famous and so people come
up to me and like, oh, mygosh, feel good foodie. Can you say
the catchphrase? I'm like, sogood. And so I just humor them. Take
a picture.
You know, one of the biggestissues I have in restaurants is that
(18:09):
sometimes when the food isn'tgood, you. You have to send it back.
But do you ever. Do you eversend food back at restaurants?
I always do. If I'm notsatisfied, like, if there's something,
like, I don't have a problemsending food back, and if there's
something that's actuallywrong with it. So if I. If I ate,
like, 85% of it, I'm not goingto send it back. But if it's cold
when it was supposed to behot, if it was cooked to a different
(18:32):
way, then I asked for it to becooked, if there's something in there
that I don't eat, like pork,for example, I will be sending it
back. And then the problem,though, is as soon as I do, my husband
feels, like, super nervous,and he feels like we need to get
out of the restaurant asquickly as possible. So whenever
the dish comes again, he'slike, eat fast. We are running out
of here. No one's orderingdessert like we're running, because
he gets embarrassed for me.I'm like, why? I. I need to be happy
(18:55):
with my meal.
Now. That's the risk you takewith some of these restaurants, is
that you never know if they'regonna sneeze on it Exactly.
By accident.
So I'll just eat it.
So, yeah, that's what myhusband says. And I'm like, well,
no, I'm just gonna try my bestand be really nice about it and tell
them what I ordered.
And so there are differentsituations. Like if I buy an expensive
filet mignon, for example, andit's not cooked medium rare the way
I like it, or even rare, forthat matter. Yeah, I gotta send it
(19:18):
back.
You have to. Yeah, but absolutely.
Again, I'm worried there'sgonna be a little bit of an emulsion
in there.
Yes.
Whatever came out of this guy.
Emulsion is one of those,like, fancy words for just spit.
Yeah. So we're gonna play alittle game. Are you ready for this?
Yes.
It's called I'll just eat itor send it back.
Okay.
I'm gonna tell you certainsituations in a restaurant that can
(19:40):
happen to you, and I want toknow if you would eat it or send
it back. Ready, Raw orundercooked Chicken.
Send it back.
Yeah, you do.
100%. We're getting sickeating that.
Yeah.
Yes, of course. Yes. If it'spink, I'm not eating it.
Unless it's steak.
Unless it's steak.
Yes.
I Will eat pink steak.
Okay. Wrong temperature steak.
(20:01):
I'll just eat it.
Soggy fries.
Send it back. They need to becrispy. Yeah.
All right.
Yeah. What's the point? Youhave to enjoy the carbs and the calories.
If I am taking in those carbsand the calories, it needs to be
worth it.
Yeah, but you can put enoughketchup in there that it'll taste
good.
No. And then just, like,limping the.
Hey, nothing wrong with that.Wilted lettuce.
(20:23):
I'll just eat it.
Come on.
Yeah.
You're not a cow.
I know, but I'm just like,well, it's fine. It's the same. It's
not worth it. That's the kindof thing they're going to spit on
for you. Because wilted to memay not be wilted to them.
Like, wait, what if the saladcomes and it's wilted? You're going
to keep eating that salad?
Yeah. It's not worth. It's notworth the spit because they can easily
(20:45):
mix that spit with thedressing. Like, that's not worth
it to me.
Yeah. I don't know. I thinkit's worth the spit. It could be
tasty.
It almost has to be, like,worth the spit. Or not.
Yeah. Right. Overcooked pasta.
Mm. I'll send it back.
Really?
Yeah, because it's mushy andit just, like. It ruins the texture.
(21:05):
And then you just, like, yourmouth just starts to, like, get all,
like, weird. I can't.
What kind of pasta are you eating?
I think it needs to be aldente. It needs to be. I just came
back from Italy, too, soyou're asking me at the wrong time.
Maybe ask me in six months andI won't be as picky.
Right. Like, Mac and cheese,Overcooked macaroni.
Just slurp it down. Fine. Exactly.
All right, I'm eating it.Personally, I'm eating it.
Okay.
(21:25):
Too spicy. Like, overly spicy?
It depends if I'm crying. If Istart crying, I'm sending it back.
If I. If I'm not crying, I'mgood. I can. I can handle a little
bit. I mean, I grew up inAfrica. They used to drop, like,
whole peppers inside of stews,and my mom would always make a separate
one for me because I can'thandle it too much. But I've definitely
eaten some really spicy.
Food, but the portions are toosmall. Would you.
(21:47):
I'll just eat it, suck it up,and go somewhere else to eat afterwards.
Or order two desserts.
You're too kind. You're Toonice burnt pizza.
Ugh. I can't do the burntpizza because my mom's voice starts
going in my head about, like,oh, the. What is it? The carcinogens
of anything black. You're notsupposed to eat black food. So I
feel like her voice is what'stelling me to send it back.
(22:09):
I would send it back too. Imean, a whole piece is burnt, and
they do that because theydon't know the temperature of the
oven.
And sometimes they're notcleaning it well too. So there's,
like, things in there thatflare up and cause that. So it's
their fault. They should notbe burning that pizza. Like maggots
and maggots and rabbit hair.
Okay, very good. And finally,if it smells weird, 100%,.
(22:30):
We're sending it back. Yes. Ihave a thing about smells. I can't.
I can't deal with that.
Yes. This is fantastic. I'mreally glad he came on the show.
Yumna Jawad. Thank you somuch. Feel Good Foodie is the social
media site.
Yes.
And online, they can find you where.
Feel Good Foodie everywhere.I'm on Instagram and TikTok and the
website and all over.
And check out her book too. Itlooks fantastic. Your food is fantastic.
(22:52):
Congratulations on having somany followers.
Thank you so much.
Next time, 20 millionfollowers. Let's take over the world.
Yeah. And next time, let'stalk about something more appetizing.
Oh, we always talk aboutappetizing things. Thanks a lot for
being on the show.
Thank you so much, George.
(23:28):
All right, after the break,I'll sit down with with two Italians
to settle one of life's mostimportant debates. What makes the
perfect gnocchi? We'll beright back. Welcome back. My guests
today are Nicholas Wooler andAlessandro Sita, founders of Nocca,
a company that's trying to dosomething almost nobody else has
(23:49):
done. Build a modern foodbrand around gnocchi. Not pizza,
not pasta, not gelato.Gnocchi. They've launched packaged
products, opened a restaurantin New York City, and somehow decided
that betting on potatodumplings was less risky than a normal
career. Alex and Nick, thanksfor being on the show.
Thank you. Good to be here.
(24:09):
Hey, George, why gnocchi?
It's convenient. It'sdelicious. As we were running the
ground, we found out that notmany people were had an opportunity
to be exposed to that yet. Solet's do something, you know, interesting.
Yeah. And the conveniencepart, like, I mean, gnocchi is so
easy to prepare. Once it'sprepared, of course. So you can easily
(24:29):
freeze it or just have a premade. I mean I've seen gnocchi at
the supermarket outside arefrigerator. Are those okay to eat?
Yes, yes, that's ours. So weactually worked a lot on the recipe
and we worked with theuniversity to create the first preservative
free gnocchi that can stay outof the fridge. So you have a real
Italian recipe. Great, greattaste. And yes, like you said, it's
(24:53):
a two minute preparation. Soeverybody can prepare those gnocch
and very difficult to mess up.
Can you trust a pasta companythat doesn't have someone who has
some sort of Italian accent?
Not too much.
What do you think aboutAmericans taking something like higher
end cuisine, like Italiancuisine from Italy and giving it
(25:14):
their own kind of twist to itor starting there? How did that all
happen?
Well, you know, I'm Italian,but I think now it's 15 years. When
I came in the US I wasshocked, to be honest. The way they
cook the pasta, the type ofsauce they put, they're mixing everything.
I have to be honest. I thinkit's a great thing. And we need that
(25:34):
wake up call as Italianbecause sometimes we so stuck in
tradition, us allow us to mixeverything and sometimes, you know,
when you try to mix and makeexperiment, there's great things
that come out. So I'm prettyhappy personally of what's happening
in the US food scene right now.
Yeah, I've never heard of astubborn Italian in my life.
Yes, nice to meet you.
Yeah, exactly. Or a snobItalian. I mean, every Italian friend
(25:58):
of mine from Italy, I meantheir motto is the Italians are the
best.
Everybody knows that.
Yeah, except you're not in theWorld Cup.
That hurts.
So, okay, so I understand whatyou think of Italian American cuisine.
And honestly, I think one ofthe reasons that Italian American
cuisine is so different fromItalian cuisine is when the immigrants
(26:20):
came here, there was more ofthat Southern influence. And obviously
the ingredients weren't foundhere as well. There's a lot of reasons
why the cuisine is sodifferent. And also Italy just evolves
into more of a modern, alittle more sophisticated. How did
you have to adapt to therestaurant for that? Or did you kind
of stick more with theAmerican Italian traditions?
So to me, this is a topic thatis very exciting and interesting.
(26:43):
Cuisine has been evolvingeverywhere all the time. So for us,
understanding that early onand having great interest in quality
right at the base ofeverything, there's that the decision
to find the best quality ineverything we do. Embracing change,
embracing adaptation, culturaldemand and all of that. It's exciting.
(27:06):
So when you come to therestaurant, you have what we think
or we believe is the bestrendition of the classics, because
it's good to carry over thatcultural tradition. But at the same
time, we are always open tohear and excited about people, how
they are adapting the productto the way they like it or they want
(27:27):
it. And this is allowing usalso to experiment a lot.
I'm really glad you broughtthis up, because I have some really
interesting food trends that Ialways cover, and I figured out a
few lists of food trends thatmaybe can translate to gnocchi. And
I want your honest reaction tothat, because these are real trends
that are happening here in theUnited States. We're going to play
a little game called gnocchior gnocchi.
(27:47):
Okay.
Meaning I'm not interested.All right, so here it is. Gnocchi
or gnocchi. Movie theaterbutter popcorn. Gnocchi made with
blended popcorn, brown butter powder.
It's a gnocchi for me.
Agreed. Yes.
Oh, this is a good one.Everything bagel, cream cheese, gnocchi.
So you have cream cheese inthe dough. You have that rolled with
(28:08):
everything seasoning on that.
I would probably take theflavor profile of that and maybe
see if we can do somethinggood with gnocchi.
No, thank you.
Flaming hot cheetos. Gnocchicrushing crushed flaming hot cheetos.
Make it spicy.
I can see that one.
Yeah, I would think so.
(28:29):
Yeah, I can see that one.
You put flaming hot Cheetos onanything, sure will eat it. Sure.
The Mexicans did it with acorn, and it's marvelous. Yeah, sure.
The spice is really a bigtrend right now. And it's true. It's.
What if you took it to Italy,do you think they would eat it there?
We would put Calabrian peppersat that point.
Of course. Calabrian Cheetos,Sure. Okay, very good. Hot honey
gnocchi. Hot honey is huge.
(28:49):
Yes, yes, yes.
Big one here. Kimchi gnocchi.
I would see that.
Right?
Maybe I don't know whatkinkychi is.
Okay, well, that's a problem.Yes. Okay. It's fermented cabbage.
Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
So I'm going to list a few ofthe American Italian foods here,
and you tell me if you findthese in Italy or not. You ready?
(29:13):
Chicken parm.
No.
Okay. Spaghetti and meatballs.
Yes.
You do have spaghetti andmeatballs? Sure. Okay, Very good.
Fettuccine Alfredo.
Very difficult. It's startingnow. I think the trend came back
from the US Into Italy, thanksto social media. Now there's some
trendy new Italian restaurantI want to propose the Italian American
cuisine from. From Brooklyn. Right.
(29:35):
I mean, if you want to comparethe American cuisine here, I mean,
you're talking about 250 yearsover here compared to what, thousands
of years in Italy. I mean,it's evolved and it's evolved because
of whatever you're growing there.
I think it's broadening theregional presence. Right. So for
many years there's been astrong regional characterization
(29:57):
of Italian food being moretypical or inspired by ingredients
that were more available inthe southern of Italy, for example.
And this belongs to themigration and all of that which has
been more prominent, as yousay, as food becomes more accessible
and the supply chain isproviding the same ingredients we
have in Italy, for example, atthe part of what you will get in
(30:18):
Italy. Yeah, I think theoriginal exploration of Italian food,
it's happening. It's beenhappening for some time. It's not
like it's happening now. Andthe beauty of it is that it gets
here and there's already aninfluence. There are influences from
other cultures too. Right. Wetalk about kimchi gnocchi, for example,
or Cheetos gnocchi. And wewere not too estranged by that because
(30:42):
we know that here it'spossible there's less resistance.
And that's what keeps us, orat least keeps the project we're
working on engaged and one toone with the consumer, which is extremely
exciting.
Do you think we're going tolose the basis of Italian cuisine
or even French cuisine? Do youthink we're going to lose that a
little bit?
I think the staples, theyprove themselves to be extremely
(31:03):
pleasurable for such a longtime that we will always go back
to that. But even the Italianculture, the Italian food culture
that we like to think that wecan span throughout the entire Italian
culture, which, like you said,is thousands of years, but it really
established itself in themodern era where ingredients became
more available, approachable.And we also imported a lot of stuff.
(31:29):
Tomatoes and spaghetti weren'tthere 600 years ago.
And Italian cuisine isextremely regional as well.
Yes.
Is it going to stay regionalfor the coming decades?
There's a lot of resistance.Younger generations are going back
to harvest because it wasdriven by what was available regionally,
which is heavily influenced bywhat you can grow.
(31:50):
And one very, very good thingabout Italian food in general, at
least that's what we're tryingto break the message here. At least
you touching on America andItaly, you don't have to break the
bank to have good Italian foodin Europe here is just starting because
we felt like when we get tothe US you can find very good Italian
food. But it was just like forcertain people, because of the cost,
(32:13):
it's. I mean, everything isexpensive everywhere, I guess, but
not the food. In Italy, youcan eat very well and you don't have
to break the bank. And sothat's, that's the mission. Also
we on quality, but accessibleto everybody.
Yeah. I've never met anItalian from Italy who can't cook.
Is that changing?
Oh, yes, it is. Sometimes Ithink I would say, yes, I can cook.
(32:37):
You still have some gray. So Ican cook. I'm talking about the youth.
Are they going more for thefast food?
So you're saying I'm not thatyoung anymore?
Well, definitely younger thanme. But my point is, is it starting
to trend for the fast foodbecause people have less time or
is it because they're just.
They don't want to learn theconvenience? Yes, for sure.
Well, the convenience isplaying a factor and, but the, the
standard, the bar is high. AndI think businesses in Italy, for
(33:02):
Italians are going an extralength in terms of providing pre
made, prepared, partiallyprepared food that it's. That it's
still nutritious quality andall of that. So there's always a
trade, a trade off. Right. Itdoesn't matter really what you're
having. Right. I mean, it isprimary, the quality of what you're
(33:24):
having, but it's secondary.How true to what you had as a children
is.
I don't know. I like where Iam here. And as long as I can bring
some of that Italian love andculture, and that's what I love about
Italian Americans. They arebringing that social aspect of cuisine
into their home. That familytable is massive in the Italian American
home, and I love that morethan anything else. Even if you're
(33:46):
not serving turkey forThanksgiving, there's going to be
a lot of food and a lot of people.
Exactly. And a lot of fun.
So tell me a little bit aboutNoka. Noka is in 250 Mott street
here in New York City. You'reserving gnocchi. You have a pomodoro,
vodka pesto, caciopep,carbonara, bolognese. Simple.
We're strong believers thatyou can do very well a few things
at a time. So we are very dedicated.
(34:07):
Yeah. And gnocchi. Gnocchi,which is your gnocchi that you sell
at the markets or the supermarkets?
Yes.
Where do we find that?
So we are expandingdistribution and the restaurant is
helping. Also, sometimespeople may not know what gnocchi
is. We've been talking with alot of people that never tried before
(34:27):
or can't pronounce it or can'tpronounce it, or they know what it
is. They don't know if theylike it. But now we have other consumers
more adventurous or those wholike gnocchi already and they want
to try it that are vouchingfor what we're doing.
Yeah. Well, Nicolas Wooler andAlessandro Sita. Noka is the name
of the restaurant. NoccaGnocchi is the name of the gnocchi.
(34:49):
You can find them@nocca co n oc c a co. Right, correct.
Correct.
And you can find out wherethey sell it. I look forward to tasting
some of your gnocchi.
Yes. And you have to try thenew Amatriana just came out. Delicious.
If I knew what amatricianawas, I would probably love it.
Yeah, it's there. We lookforward to seeing you there.
Thank you so much, guys.Thanks for being on the show.
Thank you, George.
And for all our listeners outthere, thanks for hanging with us.
(35:11):
Follow us on the Always Hangrypodcast, wherever you get your podcasts.
And Visitus@alwayshangrypodcast.com for episodes,
updates, and much more. I'mGeorge Duran. Until next time, stay
hungry.
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