Your Food Isn’t Expired! Plus: The Unwritten Rules on Sharing and Busted for Eating Weeds!

Summary

One gluten-free guest can derail a dinner party. One meatball can derail a friendship. George Duran and food writer Karla Walsh lay out the unwritten rules of sharing plates, expose what "best by" actually means, and meet the forager New York City arrested for eating a dandelion in Central Park.

Show Notes

There is an exact number of appetizers a restaurant will bring to your table, and it is never the number of people sitting at it.

George Duran and Des Moines food writer Karla Walsh open this one on the social minefield of shared plates: which fries are legally yours (curly, apparently, forever), why high-end restaurants insist on serving five of something to a party of six, and what to do about the single remaining croquette that everyone is staring at and nobody will claim. George lays out his rules — everyone gets one before anyone gets two, double-dipping is fine if your fork behaves, and if you take the last bite you have to say so out loud. Karla, who is more reasonable, mostly agrees. There's also a 20-year grudge over a friend's birthday bill that has never been resolved and probably never will be.

Then the label on the yogurt. California's new date-labeling law took effect this July, which means "sell by" is gone from consumer packaging in the state and everything else has to say either BEST if Used by or USE by. George explains what those two phrases actually mean, why almost none of these dates are federally regulated, why brown ground beef is fine, why vacuum-packed chicken smells like that for about nine seconds, and why you should absolutely not wash it. Then a game called Taste It or Waste It, in which Karla learns her hot sauce has years of life left in it. Also: George's standing theory that cereal companies deliberately refuse to put zippers on the bag.

And then the man who sees dinner where you see a lawn. "Wildman" Steve Brill has spent more than forty years teaching people to identify edible plants across the Northeast, and he became internationally famous in 1986 when undercover park rangers — posing as a married couple, on his own tour — arrested him for eating a dandelion in Central Park. He tells the whole thing: the hidden walkie-talkie, the handcuffs, the fingerprints taken for the city, the state, and the FBI, the judge who wanted it out of her courtroom, and the part where the city dropped the charges and then hired him. He also explains, without much sentiment, what happens if you eat the wrong mushroom.

Nothing here is food safety advice. When in doubt, throw it out.

Takeaways:

• Some foods are not shareable and pretending otherwise is how friendships end. Curly fries are the clearest case.
• Restaurants plate appetizers in threes and fives because odd numbers look better, which means they are mathematically hostile to a table of four or six.
• "Sell by" was never for you — it's stock rotation. "BEST if Used by" is quality. "USE by" is the safety one. Only that last one is telling you not to eat it.
• Brown ground beef is a chemistry story, not a spoilage story: myoglobin oxidizing to metmyoglobin. Smell and texture are the real tells.
• Foraging isn't reckless, it's just uncommon — Brill's rule is 100% certainty on identification, every time, no exceptions.

Companies and people mentioned

• "Wildman" Steve Brill — Forager, naturalist, environmental educator, author — wildmanstevebrill.com
• Foraging with the "Wildman" — Brill's foraging app, 250+ plants — wildmanstevebrill.com/mobile-app
• Karla Walsh — Food, wellness and lifestyle writer; Level One Sommelier (Court of Master Sommeliers) —karlawalsh.com · IG@karlaswalsh · newsletter What's Good

Also referenced:

• California AB 660 (Irwin), effective July 1, 2026 — standardizes food date labels, bans consumer-facing "sell by"
• USDA — safe minimum internal temperature for poultry, 165°F; guidance on mold on hard cheese; color as a freshness indicator
• FDA — infant formula is the only food product with a federally required date label
• Drexel University — consumer research on discarding food near package dates
• NYC Parks Department — Brill's 1986 arrest and subsequent four years as a Parks naturalist
• Mayor Ed Koch,

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Don't you kind of wish yourprotein could just talk to you?
It does. You just have toraise chickens in your backyard.
Welcome to the Always Hangrypodcast, where we break down the
way we eat. The good, the bad,and the completely ridiculous. I'm
your host, George Duran. Ontoday's show, the unwritten rules

(00:20):
of sharing food. And then wetake a deep look at the fake urgency
of food expirations. And lateron. Have you ever looked at a patch
of weeds and thought, can Ieat that? That's right. Today we're
learning the art of foraging.Joining me now is the only person
on earth who doesn't mindsharing her fries, the wonderfully

(00:40):
talented Karla Walsh.
If they're curly fries,they're all mine. But all the rest
of them, I'll share.
You don't share your regular,your curly fries at all.
Those are my favorite.
They are, right? I like alsothe waffle fries.
The waffle fries. The surfacearea to like potato ratio is just
ideal.
But why don't people likesharing food? Like in your case,
the curly fries?
Yeah. Because for me, it'slike I want the perfect bite. And

(01:04):
like, if you take my favoritefry that has like that right 'curly
Q', it's just a little bitlike, ah.
Yeah. It's that moment whenlike they bring that, you know, they
bring the dishes. Right. Andthen they're. And like everybody's
like eyeing your fries.
Yes, that's very fair. Andit's just like you have your eyes
set on the favorite bites. Andalso it's like you could just order
your own if you really want fries.

(01:25):
Thank you. I say that all thetime. Except I'm also the one who
steals the fries too,especially for my kids dishes because
I order like the main coursewith the rice or beans or whatever
it is, and they order alwaysfries. And I'm just like, it gets
there. And my kids are kind ofproprietary with their fries.
Yeah. I feel like you need atable fry. Like I get a table pancake
when I go to brunch sometimesthat you can share it and you have

(01:47):
something a little sweet.
So you need like a table fry.
That is a genius idea. Like ashared collective in addition to
the sides that are already onthe table, just in case.
One of the things that Ialways find annoying is that you
go into these high endrestaurants now and all their dishes
are shareable. Do you findthat? Do you go to a lot of these
types of restaurants?
Yes. Like shareable small plates.
Yeah.
I was chatting with the peoplewho are like the Top Chef judges

(02:09):
and they're like. That makesno sense to me. If they're small,
they're not made to besharing. They should be big. Made
to be sharing.
Well, the problem with sharingfoods in a high scale restaurant
is that they come in, like,odd numbers and you're an even group.
Like, how do you share food?Four, you know, items with five people.
Oh, shoot. How do you do this?
I don't. Am I supposed to takea bite and pass it along?

(02:30):
Right. Especially if it's,like, people that you don't know
very well.
The most common quantityrestaurants serve appetizers is three
and five.
Is it because it looks nice?Like, I've heard with, like, artists
and stylists and stuff, it'slike odd numbers is like a pretty
collection.
Always three or five. Go withodd numbers. But usually, like, you're
a family of four. You're six.You can't divide five into six.

(02:55):
Right. My mom is a mathteacher. And so you'd have to, like,
go up to 30 to evenly divide 5and 6. Right.
Math was a worse subject forme, so I have no clue. Here's a list
of restaurant appetizers thatI think are the least shareable.
Ooh, I like this game.
Ravioli.
Yeah. That's oozing out.
No. How do you. Yes. Guess whogets the ooze? Anything that's ball

(03:18):
shaped.
Okay.
Like croquettes, meatballs.
Arancini.
Yeah. How do you divide that?
Difficult.
Yeah. Deviled eggs.
Yeah. That's impossible.
Do you take a bite and pass it along?
If you're really familiar withthe person that you're sharing with.
Okay. Wings?
Yeah. No.
I had somebody share wings one time.

(03:40):
Like one wing.
One wing. Because we were oddeven. One of those situations where
you just can't divide wings.And the guy literally took a knife
and went between the two bonesand cut it in half. And you go. And
he passed it along to me.
I mean, that's very generous,but that seems like a lot.
I don't know. Something abouthalf a wing that is not satisfying.
I just don't trust. Here'shalf a wing. How did you do that?

(04:03):
The whole rest of the evening,you'll be dreaming of what that other
half tasted like.
Yeah. When I go into arestaurant now as an adult, as a
foodie, as someone who'sobsessed, I'm like an orchestra conductor.
Oh, this is good. Do you orderfor the table?
Oh, do I order for the table?Everybody assures me that power to
order for the table.
That's a lot of pressure.
I am an orchestra conductor,too. So when the appetizers come

(04:25):
and they don't match thequantity of people.
Oh, then it's on you.
Oh, man. My fractions havegotten much better as an adult, and
I'm just cutting and sharing,and the mozzarella stick is being
divided up, especially with mykids, who are constantly fighting
for the last one. It is soimportant to learn fractions for
that sole reason.
That's the only reason.
That's it. That's the only way.
Maby baking.

(04:45):
Do you count how many peoplehave taken bites? If they've taken
more or less.
Oh, that's too much. I want tobe present. No, I'm not doing the.
I'm kind of conscious aboutthat. Like, I'm in this conversation
with friends on the table.Everything's good, but I'm also watching
their bite count.
How do you do the mental Jenga?
Damn, that guy took threemeatballs already, and I've only

(05:06):
had two.
I better hurry.
Yeah, so when you go out todinner with me, I'm watching.
Did you grow up in a familywhere it was like that? You know,
like, you had to hurry to getyour quantity?
No, not really. Because wealways ordered double.
Yeah, I mean, that's a smartway to keep the peace.
You're on a table, you havethe appetizers. There's one sole

(05:27):
appetizer amongst all yourfriends, and it's just lonesome right
there. What do you do?
It depends on how much Ireally like the dish. If I don't
really like it, I'm happy tojust let it sit there. If I do really
like it, I maybe ask, like, isanybody else interested in that last
bite? Otherwise, nibs.
That's good, because everyoneis watching that last bite. Right.
You don't want to just swoop in.

(05:47):
Nobody wants to do that, butsomebody has to. And then the worst
is that the waiter comes. It'slike, hey, no one's eating it. Let
me take it away. I havewrestled waiters, those dishes. I've
wrestled them to make surethey don't take that appetizer from
me. I have wrestled waitersfrom taking the juice of the ceviche
away. I want that juice.That's all the flavor. And they just
pick it up. And I'm like, no,no, no, we haven't. There's still

(06:08):
the juice and the onions leftfrom that liquid of the ceviche.
You're like, I have a spoon.
Yeah, I have a spoon. I'mgoing in go with the plate. I'm just
drinking it up, man.
Give me a straw.
Here are my top rules forshared plates at a restaurant.
Oh.
I want to know if you agreewith me.
I can't wait.
Everyone gets one beforeanyone gets two.
I think that's appropriate.
Yeah. If accidentally someoneeats two before everyone has one,

(06:32):
you have to buy dessert.
Ooh, I've never heard of thatbefore, but that's a plot twist.
It's my rule.
I like it.
Yeah. Another rule I have.Double dipping is allowed. Hold on.
As long as your fork onlytouches the food you're about to
consume.
Yes, I agree with that. Yeah,as long as your bite marks aren't
on there.
Right.
Plus, if it's your family,then, like,.

(06:53):
Oh, I don't want to share withmy kids.
Who knows where that's been?
They don't even wash theirhands. The person who ordered it
gets first dibs.
What about the person who's paying?
Oh, they get all dibs. Ofcourse. Granted, if nobody claims
the appetizers after 30seconds, it's fair game.

(07:15):
30 seconds is fast, though.
Yeah.
You're still kind of decidingwhich piece you want.
30 seconds is an eternity whenit comes to good appetizers. What
are you talking about? I'mlike, 30 seconds. Like, I have a
countdown and my timer. Thealarm's going off like no one has
eaten it for 30 seconds. I'm in.
Are you bringing, like, abuzzer from one of those board games
that will, like, play thealarm out loud?

(07:35):
Yeah. Or one of thoseelectrical guns that you shock some
people. Get out of here. It's mine.
Full size operation.
And finally, if you take thelast bite, you have to acknowledge
it. Does anyone want this?
Yeah, I think that'sappropriate. It's kind of like ask
for consent.
Yeah. Do you know what thebiggest relationship troublemaker
is when it comes to sharing?
Ooh, I can't wait to hear.

(07:56):
The number one is French fries.
French fries. Okay.
A UK survey of 2,000 adultsfound that french fries ranked among
the foods people are leastwilling to share, along with pizza,
ice cream, and chocolate.
Yeah.
49% hate when someone takesfood off their plate without asking.
53% admit to experiencing foodenvy after seeing someone else's

(08:18):
meal.
Oh, I've totally done that.
Huge.
Why did I order this?
And when someone else hassomething even better.
Yes.
And, you know, I'm the one whousually orders something better,
and my sister always noticesthat. So from now on, she says, I
want to see what George orders first.
Okay, so you kick things offwhen the server comes.
I kick things off. She knows Icould read the menu, and I can imagine

(08:39):
what it's going to taste andlook like. And I have a good. I have
a good mind and palate forthat. 15% said they've actually argued
after someone stole their fries.
Argued. How serious does this get?
You know, my kids. Oh, man,the fries are like. It's World War
III.
Wow.
Yeah. French fries are sacred.All right, let's talk a little bit

(08:59):
about splitting bills.
Perfect.
Researchers found that peopleorder up to 37% more food when they
know the bill will be split.
Wow, that's fascinating.
You don't do that?
No. I mean, it's really easy,at least in the Midwest when I go
out to eat, for them to usetheir little kiosk and split it if
we need to. But I'm also the.Just give me the bill and we can

(09:21):
figure it out later.
But if somebody orders, likethree drinks and you've ordered one,
is that fair to split the bill evenly?
Yeah. I think you talk aboutterms of like, would we like to split
it down the middle? Or wouldyou like your orders itemized?
Except it's hard for somerestaurants. They don't split it
more than two or three ways sometimes.
Right. How do you feel aboutalternating? Like, one of my good
friends and I, we go out todinner, and, like, he gets one, then

(09:42):
I get one. So then it's justlike, kind of. It evens out, and,
like, we don't nickel and dimeeach other, but.
Well, that's fine. But whenit's three or four or five or 10
people.
Right. Then you have to. Thiscould go on forever. You better really
like the group that you'redining with.
How do you split a bill whenyou're sharing small plates, too?
I know, like, you ate threepieces. I ate two.

(10:02):
Like, right. Or you ate themeatballs or the majority of the
meatballs. This is just. It's complicated.
There are some etiquetteexperts that say you should discuss
this before you start eating.
Yes, I think that's wise.
Hey, guys, we're going todivide this equally, or, hey, guys,
we're going to have separatechecks, or, hey, guys, if you drink,
order more than two drinks,we're going to. You're going to have
to pay a little bit more.
Right.

(10:22):
I have a friend, and we usedto go to her birthday party at the
restaurants. She would allinvite us, and one time when the
bill came amongst 10, 12 ofus, she asked us to divide it up
evenly.
Wow.
And pay for her.
No. Oh, no. If you initiatedthe party, you are. You're paying

(10:42):
at least your portion.
And I watched her drink awhole bottle of champagne on her
birthday.
Absolutely not. Do you thinkthat champagne was talking when she
said that?
Oh, man. I think she wastalking before she ordered it. I
think she was like, yeah, it'smy birthday. You're paying for it.
That's so bold.
I have never been to herbirthday party again. Yeah, it's
been like 20 years now.
She's been voted off the island.

(11:23):
Okay, can we take a quickbreak, please? Okay, let's take a
quick break. When we comeback, we'll find out whether expiration
dates are protecting yourstomach or just hurting your wallet.
And later on, we'll meet theman who can turn your neighborhood
park into a grocery storethrough the art of foraging. We'll
be right back. All right,we're back. You know, just recently

(11:47):
in California, they announcedthat they have banned confusing consumer-facing
"sell by dates." Have youheard of this?
I have.
Yeah. On the packaged foods.To reduce the grocery waste, manufacturers
must now use standard labels,"Best if used by" or "Best if Used
or Frozen by" for quality, and"Use by" or "USE by or Freeze by"
for safety. And it's really confusing.
So confusing because like manypeople think best by is like when

(12:10):
it's not good safe to eat anymore.
So the term sell by, it's notfor you, it's for the store inventory
management. So it has nothingto do about you.
Yeah.
All right. It's not for theconsumer. Ignore the term best by.
It's about the peak quality.
Yes.
So even if it's the day afterbest by, it doesn't mean it's bad
to eat.
Yes.
The term used by, again, it'sabout quality, not about safety.

(12:33):
And then there's a termexpiration date which clearly indicates
the food you cannot eat afterthat expiration date. The new rules
in California are just best ifused by and used by. So the best
if used by or frozen by, it's quality.
Yes.
And the used by or freeze byis about safety.
I think that's appropriate.
In the United States,expiration dates are largely made

(12:55):
up by manufacturers.
Right. Because they want tosell more.
Yeah. These food date labelsare neither federally regulated nor
science based. Except for oneexception, infant formula.
Oh, I could see that.
Only product whose date isfederally regulated. Everything is
mostly about quality, notsafety. So those dates are kind of
fake.
Yeah. Do you adhere to them?

(13:15):
Never.
Yeah.
No, I use my senses.
Yes.
According to the USDA, 20% offood is wasted because of these labels.
Yep. I could see that. That'sa lot.
Yep. I know a lot of AmericansAre opening up the yogurt. Not even
opening it up. Looking at theexpiration date or the best by date
and saying, oh, this isyesterday. I'm not even opening this
up.
Right.
And just throwing it right inthe garbage.
Well, yogurt in particular,that seems like it's bacteria anyways.

(13:37):
The study from DrexelUniversity found that 84% of consumers
discard food near its packagedate, at least occasionally.
Wow.
And people trust labels morethan their senses.
Oh, that's wild.
How do you test milk? Even ifit's open, how do you test?
Yeah, I just smell it.
My kids are always afraid tosmell it because they don't want
to smell something funky. So,I mean, I shove my nose in that cotton.

(13:59):
Yeah. I think that's thesafest way.
There is a myth going outthere. You know those giant gallons
of milk?
Yeah.
They have this littleindentation around. Circular indentation.
Yes. What is that for?
Well, a lot of people thinkthat when that expands and it pops
out, the milk is bad.
Well, I've never had a milkthat was that explosive.
I guess that's not real.
Okay.

(14:19):
Yeah. That pop out, by theway, for the gallon of milk. It just
means there's a structuralintegrity issue with that gallon
of milk.
Yeah.
So it has nothing to do with you.
Its design.
Yeah. With cheese, What do youdo with cheese? If you see that it's
moldy, for example.
I know that's a tricky one. Ithink it depends on how far the mold
has spread. I generally sliceit off, but, like, I also am, like,
I don't know, is it worth it?Like, I could just go buy more.

(14:42):
Or you can do what the FDA says.
What do they suggest?
Cut at least one inch aroundand below the mold spots.
Yeah. I would say that'susually about how much I cut off.
It's like, at least you gottahave, like, a wide berth.
Who has a cheese that's widerthan an inch anyways? I mean, like
an inch. Like, you need, like,a massive ginormous
Wedge
Yeah. One foot by one foot.Blob. To cut out an inch. Just chuck

(15:06):
it.
A Costco sized.
Yes. All right, we're gonnaplay a game. Ready?
Perfect.
It's called taste it or waste it.
Oh, no.
How long after the best bydate can you consume these products?
Okay, and this is, per theFDA, per George.
This is, I want to say, aquick disclaimer. We're talking about
general food labeling. We arenot giving food safety advice. When

(15:29):
in doubt, throw it out.
Always talk to your ownmedical professional.
And please don't sue us. Allright. Yogurt. Five days after the
Best By date. All right. Eggs.How long do you think after the Best
By date?
Two weeks.
FDA says one week. I have keptit for a month.
Man, I feel like that's fine.
Yeah. And you're refrigerating anyways.
Don't you, like, see if it floats?

(15:51):
No, I just see if it tastesgood or if it gets me sick and that's
it. Hot sauce. How long afterthe Best By date?
Oh, I would say six months.
Three years.
Three years? Oh, I wasundercutting it.
You're throwing away your hotsauce, girl. Give it to me.
I know, I gotta hurry up.
Crackers.
Oh, well, I mean, if they'restale, but I would say two months.

(16:12):
Six months.
Okay.
Yeah. Ground beef?
Four days.
Yeah. It's two days after theuse by date.
Yes.
Yeah, you gotta be carefulwith that one.
That would be a little tricky.
And you notice when you go tothe butcher, the ground meat on the
outside is kind of reddish,and then the inside, it's brown.
Yeah, I feel like you taughtme about that, like, being oxygen
exposure related, right?
Correct. It's actually okay toeat brown beef.

(16:34):
Yeah.
Believe it or not, the USDAsays color alone is a poor indicator
of freshness or safety. Thequestion is, why does beef turn brown,
especially the inside of theground beef? And it all comes down
to a protein called myoglobin.After about 50 minutes in the air,
oxygen binds to the myoglobin,creating oxymyoglobin, which gives
beef its bright red cherrycolor. As the meat sits in the refrigerator

(16:58):
or under grocery lights, themyoglobin continues to oxidize it
into metmyoglobin, which isbrown. And it's safe to eat.
Unless it's probably green orpurple. Then maybe you should.
Well, that's the one thing youhave to be careful. You have to look
at the color, but there's alot more. Is it safe to eat? Yes.
Unless it's still within itssafe storage time. So you have to
look at the date?
Yes. Okay.

(17:18):
If it smells sour or rotten,don't eat that. Ground beef.
Nope.
If it's slimy or sticky, don'teat the ground beef.
Run.
Yeah. Raw chicken is a wholedifferent conversation.
Oh, that's complicated.
Yeah. Do you ever go home andopen that? The raw chicken? It smells
kind of sulfury and funky.
Ah, that seems like a warningsign. Should I be worried?
If you open raw chicken and ithas a strong sulfur rotten egg smell

(17:42):
that does not go away, clearlydon't eat it.
Yeah.
Except if it's vacuum packed.
Okay.
According to the FDA, vacuumsealed chicken can release a brief
sulfur like or funky smell themoment you open it. And that's because
that low oxygen environmentchanges the chemistry in that package.
Wow.
So just let it air out just alittle bit. If the funk is gone,

(18:03):
you're good to go.
Okay.
And if it's not, Chuck it.
Don't you kind of wish yourprotein could just talk to you?
They do. You just have to growchickens in your backyard. Yeah.
Do you ever wash your raw chicken?
I don't, but I wrote a wholestory about this. I feel like it's.
It turns out it's prettycultural. Like a lot of different
backgrounds depend on whetherthey do it or not. Mom always told

(18:26):
me that we do not.
Your mom is right. Yeah. TheUSDA, the CDC, the FDA recommen
against washing raw chicken,period. The reason is that washing
does not remove the bacteria,it spreads it.
Yeah.
So why do people still do it?And it's because it's cultural. You're
absolutely right. Some people.I remember my mom used to wash chicken
or like rub it with lemon andvinegar and all these things, and

(18:49):
you're doing a disservice.You're not doing anything. The bacteria
is still there. It doesn'tkill the bacteria. And the safest
way to kill bacteria withchicken. Cook it to 165
degrees, people.
Yeah.
Do you ever feel thatcompanies are secretly designing
packages so they expire faster?
Yes.
It's a conspiracy. I'm tellingyou right now.
What's the worst offender?

(19:09):
Cereal.
Cereal. Do you decant yourcereal then and like, put it in one
of the tubs with, like, theair pump things?
No, I put it in a Ziploc bagand they pop it back into the box.
Okay. Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah.
That's the secret. Why aren'tcereal bags resealable?
That's a great question. I'veseen a lot of TikTok hacks about,
like, folding the top of thebox to, like. But that's still not

(19:32):
air safe.
And I always forget how it's done.
I know. It's like, can youshow me again? Yeah, tomorrow. And
then again.
Here are the reasons cerealcompanies claim they won't make their
cereal bags resealable.
Oh, I can't wait to hear.
Adding a zipper costs money.
I mean, I would believe that.
Yeah. Adding a zipper slows production.
Yes.
It requires redesigning equipment.

(19:52):
Okay.
And consumers havehistorically continued buying cereal
anyways.
Oh, you're not forcing us to.So do we, like, protest and just
stop buying cereal for alittle while and see if they.
They do it so that you cannot.You throw it away when it goes bad
and you buy another one? Ipromise you. One study says that
81% of consumers preferredresealable packaging over non resealable

(20:12):
packaging. Duh. Of course, 54% sai they'd pay more for packaging
with convenience features like resealability.
I think so too.
Yeah. The question is, whydoes a $6 bag of coffee have a zipper
but cereal doesn't and costsmore than six bucks?
Why not?
Why does shredded cheese bagsreseal but potato chips bags don't?

(20:33):
That is a great question. Youeven have the chip clip designed
to, like, remedy thissituation. You think they'd just
come up with a zipper?
Do you think these potato chipbags are in cahoots with the chip
clips?
That's collusion.
Are they making. Are potatochip companies making chip clips?
Oh, man. What cereal would youchoose endless quantities of?
I mean, can we addmarshmallows and butter to it and

(20:56):
then mix it into squares andeat it? Yes, because I could eat
Rice Krispy treats for therest of my life. All day long, endlessly.
That is a great answer.
Yeah. Here's my idea. Thefirst cereal company to make a resealable
bag. It's gonna be a hit cereal.
I think so, too.
You put all brand the cerealthat almost nobody likes.
Yes.
You put it in a resealablebag. Children will be gobbling that

(21:16):
up.
Exactly. Shredded Wheat flyingoff shelves.
That's it. Hey, cerealcompanies, listen to me right now.
Put a resealable bag on yourfreaking cereal bag in your home
run. You will sell out of your cereal.
I think that's true.
Karla, thanks a lot for coming in.
It was such a joy to be here.
Will you join us for the next episode?
Would love to.

(21:58):
Okay, we're gonna do that. Andup next, if you've ever wonder plant
growing through the sidewalkis a weed or lunch, you're about
to meet the man who has spentdecades answering that question.
Stick around. Welcome back toAlways Hangry. Now, most of us walk
through a park and see grass,weeds, and maybe a few squirrels.

(22:20):
Our guest today sees dinner.He spent more than 40 years teaching
people how to identify edibleplants and mushrooms growing right
under their feet, leadingthousands of foraging tours across
the northeast. He's even madenational headlines after being arrested
for eating a dandelion in theNew York City Central Park. Please
welcome "Wildman" Steve Brill.Steve how are you?

(22:41):
Very good. How are you?
Very well. Thanks for being onthe show. Now, when someone thinks
of foraging, what would yousay foraging is exactly?
You're looking for edible andmedicinal wild plants and mushrooms,
herbs, greens, berries, roots,seeds, seaweeds. Or if you're a murderer,

(23:04):
you're looking for poisonous plants.
When I think of foraging inNew York City, because that's kind
of where you're concentratedin. The last thing I'm going to do
is pick up anything from theground and eat it. But you're happy
to do this, right?
Yeah, I think it's a lot saferthan the stuff that's heavily sprayed
in the supermarkets. And youidentify the plant with 100% certainty.

(23:28):
That's rule number one. Thenyou're good to go.
How did you all start with allthis? I mean, were you like 5 years
old and you picked up somegrass, ate it, and you were like,
this is great.
So I'm bicycling for exercise,passing a park, and there are these
ethnic Greek women pickingsomething. And since I had just gotten
into food and cooking and wasgetting cookbooks from the library,

(23:51):
this is way before theInternet. I asked them what they
were doing, but I couldn'tunderstand a word. It was all Greek
to me. However, I did comehome with a bag of grape leaves.
I made an unconventionalstuffing, and it was delicious and
I was hooked.
I'm sorry, but there's stillsomething in me that is a little

(24:13):
apprehensive about going andgetting on the ground and taking
a chance on eating somethingthat I don't truly know. Even if
the photograph in your book isright in front of me, how are you
going to convince someone likemyself to really start foraging and
eating things off the ground?
Well, come on my tours. By thetime people have been on 10 tours,

(24:34):
I'm lucky to show them maybetwo new plants in a tour of three
hours. So it's not that hardto learn. It's just not part of our
culture. Mushrooms take longerbecause they only come up after lots
of rain.
What happens if we eat amushroom that's not the right mushroom?

(24:54):
Are we really taking a chanceor are we just going to get a little
bit sick and move on fromthere and learn our lessons?
It depends on the mushroom.Some of them will just make you sick
and some of them will kill you.
Oh, okay. Is there somethingthat you find and you're absolutely
elated, excited when you see it?
Probably violets, becausethat's my daughter's name.

(25:18):
And what do they taste like?
They're sort of mild, sweetand a little bit mucilaginous. That
means they will thicken. Soupsand stews, you eat the leaves and
you eat the flowers.
You learn something every day.And today I learned the meaning of
the word mucilaginous.
I love it.

(25:38):
Is there like a golden rule wehave to follow every time we forage?
Like, is there something weneed to kind of always look out for
before we take a bite?
A lot of rules. You pick thestuff that's extremely common where
it's common and you have toidentify everything with 100% certainty,
or feed it to the in-lawsfirst and see what happens.

(26:00):
That's the way I do it all thetime. I gotta ask Steve. Do you ever
fill up? Like, are you ever full?
Not really. Because I don'twant. I gain weight very easily.
I'm at my perfect weight now.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what happened to you when you
got arrested or charges werebrought upon?

(26:21):
Yeah, I was. I was leading aforaging tour in Central Park. This
was March 29, 1986, lookingfor plants. And there were already
two plants on the tour.Undercover agents disguised as nature
lovers. It was a man and awoman. They said they were married.

(26:41):
And because they didn't holdhands or kissed, I figured they'd
been married for a long time.The man kept taking photos. This
is before digital cameras.With a still camera, I had hold up
the specimen so we get goodshots. Only I was the specimen. At
the end of the tour, I showedpeople. This is in March, when the

(27:05):
leaves are young and firstcoming up. You can eat the leaves
of a dandelion. And ate one.The male ranger, ducked behind a
tree, took out a hidden walkietalkie. Here he is on 81st Street.
Go get him. Every park rangerin Central Park popped out from behind

(27:25):
the bushes. They surrounded mein case I was going to climb up a
tree. They put me in handcuffslest I bop them on the head with
the dandelion.
Oh, my gosh.
And they searched me. I don'tknow if they're looking for weeds
or weed. But they hauled meoff to the police station in Central

(27:47):
Park where they tortured me.They blew cigarette smoke in my face.
Of course that was allowed.Then they took fingerprints and mug
shots for the city, for thestate and for the FBI. And then they
made a terrible mistake. Theyissued me a desk appearance ticket.

(28:09):
So they had to go to court andI could face a year in jail if convicted.
And then they released me. Themistake they made is arresting me
for eating a dandelion in themost famous park in the world. So
I went home. No Internet, butI had the phone. I called every TV

(28:29):
station, every newspaper,every wire service. The next day,
early in the morning, I wentto the newsstand to see if I'd gotten
any results. Five cops stoppedme. What do you want? I said, I haven't
eaten a single dandelion. Ihaven't even had breakfast yet. One
of the cops says, we don'tcare. We want your autograph. I was

(28:52):
in front pages of newspapersaround the country. Associated Press.
Whoa.
Did a great job. I was on pagetwo of the New York Daily News, and
I got on with CBS Evening Newswith Dan Rather. Anyway, they still
took me to court. When thejudge heard the charges, she beckoned

(29:15):
the lawyers to come up andapproach the bench and whisper to
them, take this thing the hellout of my courthouse. So we did.
We went to the steps of theManhattan Criminal Courthouse on
Centre street, after whichMayor Koch told Parks Commissioner
Henry Stern to turn over a newleaf. He negotiated with me, dropped

(29:38):
the charges, and hired me tolead the same tours I was leading
when I was arrested. And Iworked as a naturalist for the New
York City Parks Department forthe next four years and left when
the administration changed.And in all the decades since, for
some reason, they never cameafter me again. I actually got permission

(30:00):
when I was hired, and thepermission was never withdrawn. So
legally, I still havepermission. But if any park rangers
out there want to arrest meagain now with the Internet, I'd
love to get more publicity.
Of course. Wait, so what werethe charges exactly?
Criminal mischief for removingvegetation from the park. And I found

(30:24):
out 10 years later from formerParks Commissioner Adrian Benepe
that the reason they cameafter me is they were terrified that
if they allowed me to forage,someone would pretend to have been
poisoned, foraging, sue thecity and point to me and say, oh,

(30:47):
you're allowing foraging.
Amazing. Are you excited howtechnology is kind of taking over
a little bit and AI wherepeople can take the photos and right
away they can tell you what.What. What it is, and maybe you can
even eat.
Certainly it certainly helps,but it's not a hundred percent accurate.
You are responsible for whatyou eat in the wild, and you have

(31:10):
to be 100% certain what you have.
All right, well, thanks somuch, Wildman Steve Brill. Check
him out atwildmanstevebrill.com or the Wild
Edibles Forage app. And thanksso much for being on the show.
You're welcome. Bye, folks.
Thanks for joining us onAlways Hangry. If you enjoyed today's
episode, subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts, watch the

(31:31):
full video and clips on ourYouTube channel, join the conversation
throughout social media, andvisit alwayshangrypodcast.com for
episodes, extras andeverything we're cooking up next.
Until next time, I'm GeorgeDuran. Stay hungry.