January 6, 2025 • 35 mins
Roger Daniels delves into the complex history and challenges of farming on Mistawasis Nêhiyawak, highlighting barriers from colonial legacies and economic constraints. He emphasizes the importance of youth engagement and sustainable practices in reviving agricultural traditions to ensure a thriving future for the community. Mistawasis is making significant strides in sustainable farming and self-governance, with initiatives like seeding native grasses and introducing bison. Through heartfelt stories, we celebrate the community’s achievements and their vision for a sustainable future.
The Bridge to Land Water Sky living lab is part of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada’s nationwide network of living labs, under the Agricultural Climate Solutions – Living Labs program. Each living lab brings together farmers, scientists and other partners to develop and improve on-farm solutions that will help store carbon, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address other environmental issues – such as soil health, water quality and biodiversity.
Hosted by: Michelle Brass
Produced by: Maddie Gould
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Bridging Relations podcast.
I'm your host, Michelle Brass.
Here we dive into diverseperspectives on agriculture and
land management, blendingWestern science and farmer
expertise with Indigenousknowledge and wisdom.
Together, we can addresschallenges and opportunities
that enhance agriculturalpractices to support healthy
(00:29):
land, water and sky for futuregenerations.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey.
On today's episode, we're goingto discuss historical barriers
and contemporary challengesrelated to farming on Mistawasis
Nation.
Roger Daniels is a member ofMistawasis.
He's lived there for all butthree years of his life.
(00:51):
He started his career workingin the band office and became
lands manager in 1989.
He's now the Treaty LandEntitlement Legacy Trust
Coordinator and has been in hiscurrent role for the last eight
years.
Over the years, Roger has triedmany different careers, but
always comes back to lands, Hi,Roger.
So tell me about yourself.
(01:12):
What was it like living most ofyour life on Mistawasis?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thinking back on it at the time it was just, it was
just life.
I was very privileged.
I didn't.
I didn't realize how lucky Iwas to be living on Mr Wass's
and the freedom that we had andjust how beautiful a place it is
.
And I think because I took itfor granted before when I was
(01:38):
growing up, it kind of makes mefeel stronger about it in my
later years that I want peopleto understand what Mistawasis
was and get it back to somesemblance of the beauty that
Mistawasis is.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's wonderful.
I love that cities Saskatoonand Regina but then I did live
10 years on reserve and canreally relate to just the beauty
, the stillness, just thedifferent atmosphere of being on
the land, absolutely.
So, living on Mistawasis andwe're talking about farming
today does your family have afarming background?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We do, yes, with my stepdad.
We started out with, it seemslike my mom always had chickens.
Every spring she would get somechicks and then we'd look after
them, then they'd go in thechicken coop and then we ended
up so we had chickens and thenwe had geese, and then we had
turkeys, and then we had a milkcow which turned into two milk
(02:41):
cows, and then we had some hogs.
I think we probably had maybeabout six or eight hogs and then
I believe I would have beenaround 12 years old or so my
stepdad, through SIAP,saskatchewan Indian Agriculture
Program, got a corral barns andI believe it was about 50 head
(03:03):
of cattle and that's when weactually started our farm life,
I guess.
And so I grew up looking afterall these animals.
As I got older, my choresincreased and then, as I was
into my late teens, then I kindof took over for my stepdad and
my mom and then we did thatuntil probably about the mid-80s
(03:28):
, mid to late 80s, and thenslowly mainly because of
economics but also because mymom and stepdad had other
priorities we slowly got rid ofthe animals and then by the time
I started working in the bandoffice, which was roughly 1989
(03:50):
we no longer had animals.
So we had a little we had a runof about, I don't know, maybe
about 15 years or so, that wethat that we were farmers.
But did we also?
We also did a little bit ofcropping.
We would seed barley for feedor oats for green feed.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, okay.
So I mean, would you say it wasa fairly small operation for
your family, or was it larger?
What would be the size of thefarming that you guys did?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, it was fairly small because we just had the
one quarter section.
At the maximum we had 80animals.
But it's something that I couldlook after the animals myself
if needed.
So I'd say medium size, mediumsize for mistlewosses at the
time.
Yeah, we're probably right inthe middle.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Okay, wonderful.
One of the questions that oftengets asked when we're talking
about farming and First Nationsand land use, land management,
is this thought of why don'tFirst Nations do more farming,
farm their own land, farm onreserve?
Can you address that a littlebit?
It's one of these commonquestions and have you heard it
(05:04):
before?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I hear it all all the time, absolutely and personal
experience.
Before my stepdad startedselling the animals, I actually
applied for some loans to startfarming and a small operation.
My stepdad at that time hadthree certificates of possession
so that that was the only landthat we would be able to work on
(05:27):
and it wasn't big enough.
And because there was noguarantees as far as
agricultural leases with Mr Wass, as due to other band members
either farming or controllingthose, the land base just wasn't
there to to justify myselfstarting up.
And that's that's the era when,when the equipment wasn't that
(05:50):
expensive.
And so now, like it would bevery daunting, now again like
with they're no longer my, mystepdad certificates of
possession, but they're, they'remy, they're in my brother's
name now.
But even with three of thoseand trying to start up an
operation individually, it'sjust very, very hard.
(06:11):
And on reserve, because a lotof times with farmers, if they
go to either farm credit or abank for their operating loans,
part of the security is the landthat they own or that they're
leasing On reserve.
You can't mortgage or have anykind of a levy against reserve
(06:35):
land.
So basically the only assurancethat the bank would have would
be the crop that's coming off ofit, and farming is very risky,
and so I think banks arereluctant to proceed on reserve
lands, simply because of thesecurity.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right right Now, and Roger tell me a bit about a
certificate of possessions.
For those who aren't aware,what is that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay.
So on non-reserves, whensomeone owns a property they
hold it in fee simple.
So as long as they're payingthe taxes, then it's their
property.
There's no such thing asownership on reserve.
Title is held in His Majesty'sname for the use and benefit of
all members of Mr Wass's.
However, under the Indian Actthere was a section which made
(07:27):
it possible to issuecertificates of possession which
are exclusive use for anindividual band member and that
exclusive use is one level down,I guess, from fee simple.
It's the highest form ofholding on reserve.
It's basically the same asowning the property.
(07:48):
If chief of council want to dosome kind of a development or
anything, they need permissionfrom those CP holders to go onto
their land.
So I'm a band member, I don'thave a certificate of possession
, but if I wanted to go hunting,for example, the CP holder
could deny me access.
It hasn't happened but it couldand because of that now any
(08:13):
development that the band maywant to do is hindered by the
location of the certificates ofpossession.
And Mr Walsh has the largestamount of certificates of
possession in Saskatchewan.
At the moment we have, Ibelieve it's, 73, 74
certificates of possession.
At the peak it was 93.
(08:34):
And acre-wise that totalsroughly 10,000 acres, and on
Mistle-Wasses there's probablyabout 16,000 of cultivated acres
.
So a vast majority ofcultivated acres are held by
certificates of possessionholders.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Okay, so then, and correct me where I'm wrong, but
so when you're looking at aFirst Nation and reserve lands,
there would be a mix or acollection of both lands that
are there for the collective useof the band membership and then
the CP lands, which would befor the use of individuals or
families that inherited those CPlands.
So we'll get to the work andthe involvement with the bridge.
(09:15):
But you know we mentioned CPland.
What are some of the otherbarriers that prevent First
Nations, either collectively orindividually, from farming
operations?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I believe the biggest one is the experience and the
connection to the land.
I was at an event recentlywhere one of the speakers and I
didn't realize it until he saidit, but we have been at least
two generations removed fromfarming so we don't have that
experience anymore.
(09:45):
We don't have the young peoplegoing to the College of
Agriculture, we don't have themworking with local farmers to
get that experience.
So for myself, for example, yes, I grew up on a farm, but the
cropping part of it I don't havea lot of experience, in that my
(10:05):
deceased uncle had a larger andhe was mainly a cereal
traditional agriculture.
His two sons helped him, butthat's all they did.
They helped him.
The decision-making was done byhim and the marketing and the
financing and that that was alldone by him.
And I don't know if it's uniqueto Mr Wass's, but even with my
(10:29):
stepdad, when decisions neededto be made, he would make those
decisions.
He wouldn't consult, eventhough I was kind of his manager
.
He wouldn't consult with me.
He would just go ahead and makethose decisions.
And then another barrier isourselves, the collective band
members, because when a bandoperation is going on it's
(10:52):
almost like everybody needstheir share.
And if you don't understandfarming, you need to understand
that you have to put money backinto the operation to keep it
going.
And that's kind of where someof the issues arise, because we
have that now where we have aneconomic development arm and
(11:13):
they're putting money back intodeveloping businesses and we
have band members saying, well,how come you're not helping the
band, how come you're not givingmoney back.
So I guess we call themshareholders and they want their
share.
And also it's daunting theamount of money it costs these
days to farm, and you know wealways look at it as well.
(11:34):
We've got 16,000 acres inMistawasis.
How much money is that going tocost to get that into operation
?
Who's going to do it?
Who's going to operate thetractors?
Who's going to operate thecombines?
Who's going to be selling thegrain?
Who's going to be?
There's so many things that weneed to look at that it seems to
(11:54):
be so daunting that it's kindof pushed to the side.
Next year we'll look at it.
Next year we'll look at it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Right, right.
So just the sheer size of itand having the capital or the
investment to make into it, andthen the people right, having
the right skills, and then thedesire.
Is that an issue as well, thedesire to go into farming and
agriculture as a career, or tolearn more, or having family
(12:22):
that has that knowledge to passon?
How big are those issues whenyou're looking at considering
this as an option?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I actually talked with our lands committee chair
almost about that issue, becausewe have a family on Mistawas
that raises cattle.
So the father has passed, sothe mother and two of the kids
have a herd of cattle then thenthe daughter has a herd of
cattle, so they kind of managethem together and I don't know
their daily routines.
All I know is that the son hasa full-time job and he has to do
(12:57):
farming after his job is doneso he has to go bailing.
Yeah, if cows get out, he's gotto go look after them.
So I asked our chairman andhe's related to that family how
are the grandchildren involvedin it?
Because they're starting to getolder.
There's actually onegranddaughter, I believe she's
in grade 10 or 11.
(13:18):
I asked do they contribute tothe farm?
And he said no, they don't, noton a daily basis In the spring
when there's branding or whenthey're moving the cattle.
The younger generation will beinvolved.
But that's about the extent ofit.
The actual managing of theanimals, the cutting of the hay,
(13:39):
the baling of the hay, haulingall of that stuff, moving the
animals, transporting theanimals for sale, all of that is
done by the son and the oldestdaughter, and so I guess that's
the only example that I have,and it's really hard to relate
(14:02):
to a lifestyle that you don'tknow.
You see that, and the biggestthing, I think, is we've gotten
to be so impatient and wantingconvenience, and it's tough,
like when I talk to mygrandchildren, my children.
When they were getting older, Italked to them about when we
farmed and plus 30, middle ofJuly, going to the lake, I was
(14:27):
heading out to the field to gocut hay or to bail Papa.
Why would you do that?
And it would be like becauseyou have to.
You needed to look after thoseanimals, and I think that's the
part that's missing is that,because you can always get
somebody to do what you do I'mgoing to be gone for a while, so
I need a fill-in.
Okay, here we go, you do, I'mgoing to be gone for a while, so
(14:49):
I need a fill-in.
Okay, here we go, here we go.
And with farming you can't.
I worked for our local farmer.
I drove combine, I drove allgrain for him and then I became
a dispatcher for him, and one ofthe biggest problems,
especially during seeding, isthat you want to get it done
within a month and after abouttwo weeks of every single day.
(15:09):
Guys are praying for rain sothat they can have a day off.
They're getting pressured fromtheir families.
Come and do this, come and dothat.
Well, I can't.
I have to work, and so there'sthat expectation of working
Monday to Friday, havingweekends off.
You can't do that.
(15:30):
You're putting in 16, 17, 18hour days and you don't have
room for anything else in yourlife except that, and it's
really hard to get somebody usedto doing that, and even though
it's only for a month.
But then you go into harvest,like this year I think harvest
started around the middle ofAugust, it just wrapped up a
(15:51):
couple weeks ago and that youstart later in the day, say 10
o'clock, but you can go until 3,4 o'clock in the morning, and
again you have to be ready to go.
So I think that want is notthere.
It's hard enough when you haveyoung people for a camp job oh
(16:13):
my God, I was there for twoweeks and that's nothing.
And so I think we need a totalchange and I think we need the
education first and then theexperience.
Like I mentioned the largefarmer that I worked for, he's
willing to help.
We get somebody that goesthrough the College of
(16:36):
Agriculture, he's willing tohelp them to learn how to become
a farmer.
So I guess that's a roundaboutway of answering that.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, there's many reasons for it, right, but just
like even just describing thelong hours, right and like, we
see that, like you know, drivingdown the highway and at the
harvest time of year, thecombines right and the lights
like after hours it's dark andit's all day to get it done and
it's it's a real lifestyle andand different maybe from what a
lot of people are used toabsolutely Absolutely.
So you know these are some ofthe contemporary issues.
(17:09):
Roger, can you tell me a bitabout any historical government
policies or any historicalissues that really led to
barriers being created?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, I'm not sure about policies.
I've never been a big reader ofpolicies.
I just understand how dailybusiness affects us and the
stories from my grandpa and mystepdad regarding after the
treaties.
Chief Mr Lawson was veryunderstanding that our
(17:40):
traditional way of life was goneand we had to change, and he
thought that change was throughfarming.
So the reserves were createdand there was a barrier right
there, because the reserve wascreated for the use and benefit
of all band members.
But when you talk about farming, it's for individuals, and so
we had a number of smaller farmson reserve that were competing
(18:05):
against each other for thelimited resources in Mistawasis,
for example, hay for cattle.
So the time that my stepdad gothis cattle, there was probably
about seven or eight bandmembers that got cattle at the
same time.
So we went from two or threefamilies to 11 families with
(18:26):
cattle.
Where are we going to cut hay?
Well, there's a slew over there.
No, this guy cuts that already.
Okay, here's one over here.
No, this guy cuts that.
So the resources were verylimited and we're competing
against each other for them, andso it started with individuals,
(18:46):
and that's how the certificatesof possession started Initially
a band member is given a rightof use and occupation and they
got to use that land.
If they improved it in twoyears, then they were issued a
certificate of possession onthat land.
For some reason or another, alot of those right of uses were
(19:07):
not transferred to CP.
So we actually could have had alot more.
So those individual bandmembers that had one quarter
section, they couldn't expand,so it was limited to just them,
and you can only raise a certainsize of family on a family farm
(19:28):
if you only have one quartersection.
And then also these farmerssome of them started to get
bigger.
They were buying up some of thecertificates of possession,
their farms were getting biggerand then their lifestyle got
better and then that inducedjealousy from band members that
(19:51):
well, if I had that land I coulddo that.
And so those are.
So just this is the way it was.
For example, my grandpa.
He ended up farming about 4,000acres, which was for the time
that was a lot, but a lot ofband members disliked him
because of that.
My oldest uncle took over thefarming operation.
(20:13):
A lot of band members that werefriends with him when my
grandpa had it.
Now he was basically the ownerof that farm.
They disliked him because andit's like today you see these
farms with this huge equipmentand all the facilities and
everything and you think, man,they're making a lot of money
(20:36):
and so they don't understandthat there's big payments behind
those.
So I don't know.
Again, I don't know so muchabout policies, but historically
that's kind of how it worked inMissouass.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, right.
Well, thank you for describingsome of that you know, and just
from my own knowledge too, justunderstanding just a lot of the
laws, like with the pass andpermit system, right, Like as
First Nations, we were confinedand incarcerated, essentially on
reserve for many years, notallowed to leave reserves
without the permission of theIndian agent, you know, to
(21:10):
travel to see for any reason, tosee family, to travel off,
without that permission, or evenjust permission to sell right,
Permission to sell any kind ofgrain or goods and needing that
permission.
So you know, having laws inplace that really restrict just
the freedom to do business, totravel, to move freely and to
(21:31):
adapt to the changes.
Right, because of course we hadtraditional lifestyles and our
own ancestral food systems inplace, and then, with the advent
of settlement and reserves, somuch of that changing so and
leading to today right To a lotof the barriers that we're
seeing in contemporary settingsthat have roots in historical
issues and so and it looksdifferent, like you said, you're
(21:52):
speaking on behalf ofMistawasis, you know.
And then there are other FirstNations that have a different
history in relation to farmingand what might be happening in
their communities.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
I really appreciate it.
When it comes to the future offarming in Mistawasas, what does
that look like for you?
What do you see happening?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, first of all, thinking about Mistawasas and
farming, I was becoming verynegative and very skeptical that
we would ever be able to getthere, because how are we going
to farm 6,000 acres?
How are we going to farm 16,000?
So I realized that I wasbecoming very negative.
So I thought, well, no, let'stake it right back to the basics
(22:33):
and start with a small farm.
So I actually had presentationsfrom a gentleman from Ochapue's
and also from Cowessess, wherethey started their band farm on
one quarter section, and that'show they started and they grew
and they grew, and so now, forexample, this year in El Chapo,
(22:54):
they have 6,000 acres.
Next year they're going to goto 8,000.
So for Mistletoe Washes, that'sthe direction I think that we
need to go, and it's not goingto be in the next year or two,
because we're just plantingseeds in our grade 10, 11 and
12s that you're going to be thefarmers, you're going to be the
ones taking this.
So we need you to get yourselfeducated in crop sciences, in
(23:19):
becoming an agronomist, likewhatever.
Whatever is required becauseagriculture has become so
complicated.
You need to know so much inorder to grow that crop and then
that's just growing it.
Now you need to market it.
You need to understand that ifyou're going to do a contract,
(23:40):
that you have to make sureyou're able to fulfill that
contract in the fall.
So there's a lot of risk there.
But basically that's how I seeus in Mistawas is that we're
basically farmers right now,planting those seeds in our
younger people to try get thatinterest.
Another example of plantingthose seeds is that one of our
(24:02):
teachers is teaching a coursethis semester on agriculture.
So what he did was he madearrangements with our local
farmers for the school kids togo ride on combines and like
these are huge John Deere, likeamazing, like huge, huge pieces
of equipment, and so they wereable to go ride on them and get
(24:24):
the firsthand experience.
And that's what we need to doget that interest developed into
agriculture.
Over the last few years we'vebeen so focused on land-based
learning and getting back totraditional uses of land as
hunting, trapping, fishing,medicines, berry picking.
(24:45):
We need to put that focus backinto the agricultural part of
our society because there'salways going to be traditional
agriculture in Mistawasis and wewant to try and get our own
people to farm our own land.
But we haven't done it in somany years, we've forgotten how,
(25:06):
so we need to relearn that, andthat's by getting these young
people involved, and that'swhere the future is going to be
with them.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh, wonderful.
I'm curious to learn about how,being involved with Bridge to
Land Water Sky, how that hasimpacted farming on Mistawasis,
and just your thoughts on wherethings are at now and how it can
evolve into the future.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I think first and foremost it's given us the
contacts to the people, to theprofessionals, to the
experienced farmers.
Example our pasture.
Talk about rotating herds.
In Mistawasas we never had toworry about that because we
never had herds large enoughthat we would have to rotate
them.
So just educating ourselves andthen opening up our minds about
(26:01):
the possibilities and learningthat there's not just
traditional agriculture.
Before the bridge I started totalk with the lands committee
that we had a half section ofland that was clover that's all
it was, and it wasn't good foranybody.
It was marginal land that nevershould have been worked up.
So what are we going to do withit?
(26:22):
So we put a fence around it,put some cattle in there, they
got rid of the clover and thengrass started growing.
Our lands committee is soinvolved in what goes on in
Mistawasas.
Our chief and council give somuch support.
When I was land manager in the80s and 90s our lands office was
(26:43):
shoved way in the back becauseit was bookkeepingkeeping.
It was.
It was just registered.
It was all paperwork we didn'thave responsibility on.
On what happened in mr wasisgarbage was dumped.
We would get on the phone andcall the department of indian
affairs.
This is what's going on outhere.
We didn't have anyresponsibility.
There's no consequences in ourminds.
As for the management of landsand mr wasis, and then we
(27:08):
developed our land code andremoved ourselves from the
Indian Act on the sectionsrelating to lands.
And now if somebody came anddumped garbage, we have to call
ourselves.
We're the ones responsible forwhat happens in Mistawasis.
We make the decisions.
We don't rely on employees ofthe department to come out and
(27:29):
say you should do this or you dothat.
We decide those things now.
So it's taken a really change ofmind to make this work, and the
bridge helped us by againgetting us in contact with these
professionals.
A perfect example I use all thetime.
We've got a half-section ofland that we bought for our land
(27:51):
claims probably 15 years ago,tried to cultivate it one year.
The land was too light,couldn't do anything, so it sat
for all these years.
And then now the bridge camealong and said, hey, we can help
.
Okay, well, we'll work withducks and with the bridge.
We put a fence around there Ayear ago.
(28:12):
We were going to seed it downto grass.
So we were in a bridge meetingand said, okay, well, what are
you guys going to seed there?
Well, I don't know.
All we know is alfalfa andbrome.
All we know is alfalfa andbrome and the mix changes
whether you're going to becutting hay or whether you're
(28:33):
going to have it for pasture.
So I put it back on ourprofessionals by saying what do
you recommend?
What do you think would workthere?
I read the emails that wentback and forth and it was so
amazing that trying to figureout what to seed there could
generate so much discussion.
And it ended up that instead ofalfalfa brome, there's nine
(28:55):
different grass species, there'sthree different wheat grasses
that come from the arid areas ofthe province, and then Ducks
Unlimited on top of that puts intheir pollinator blend Stuff.
Like that we wouldn't be able todo.
We wouldn't have the expertise.
We wouldn't have the expertise,we wouldn't have the knowledge
and with the bridge, we are theonly Aboriginal-led living lab
(29:17):
in Canada.
So I was asked what does thatmean to you?
Well, at first I was like well,I don't know.
And then it got to me.
It helped me to understand whenI was asked that question is
that we never learned how tolead.
We were always being told byexperts, and even go further,
(29:38):
back to farm instructors, toIndian agents.
This is what's good for you,this is what you should do, this
is where you should go.
But now because, because of ourland code, because of the bridge
and because of our landscommittee and the support we get
from chief and council, we grewstrong enough to say this is
what we want, this is what wesee, this is the picture we see.
How can you help us to get tothat picture?
(30:01):
And an example is we have aquarter section that's adjacent
to one of our lakes.
It's been in production forprobably I don't know 30 years,
but it's right next to the lakeand there's always been
chemicals, there's always beenfertilizer, so we worry about
runoff.
But it's gotten to the pointnow in Mistawas where Mistawas
(30:24):
is not dependent on the incomecoming from the land.
So we have the choice now tosay nope, we don't need a crop
growing there.
So that quarter section wastaken out of production Through
the bridge, the baselines forcarbon sequestration, greenhouse
gas, all of that.
That was done.
So now the question was what doyou want there?
(30:46):
Well, I know what I want thereis.
I want it to look like the landthat's around it the, the
native grasses, the shrubs, thetrees.
But instead of that beingroger's idea, it was suggested
that we talk to the school kids.
So that was part of mypresentation, was talking about
the bridge, talk about aboutthis quarter section and asking
(31:07):
those young kids start thinkingabout what you would like to see
there and how it would benefitus.
And so again, it's going backto the youth, trying to get that
development of this is whatwe're going to end up seeing
there.
Then when they drive by thereevery year they'll say I was
part of that.
When we talk about the bridge,it's generated interest in the
(31:30):
kids in the birds and the smallanimals that are out there so
that we get to know what's outthere.
We have so many different typesof animals and actually it's a
different funding area but we'regetting bison and so the bridge
has involved some of theindividuals that have done on
(31:52):
identifying pasture areas andthe health of that area.
They're also helping with wherewe're going to put bison.
So all these things.
And we're talking aboutentomology bees.
We don't have beehives anywhere, so let's bring bees.
So there's so many of these, Iguess, side effects of the
(32:12):
bridge.
Bridge helped us open our mindsand to accept that, yes, we can
do something, yes, we, we canmake a change and we, ultimately
, we have to look after ourlittle part that's so wonderful.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Roger, is there anything that you feel is
important to share that Ihaven't asked you yet?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
As I'm driving home I'll probably say, geez, I
should have thought I shouldhave done, but no, I think the
biggest thing is the pride thatI have in Mr Wossus.
When my dad went to residentialschool, he was punished for
speaking Cree.
So when he married my mom andthey started having kids, he
said my kids are not going tospeak Cree.
So when he married my mom andthey started having kids, he
said my kids are not going tospeak Cree.
And as I was growing up, I hadno issue with that because I was
(32:53):
going to go into business world.
I was going to be an accountantor work in a bank.
I wasn't going to live inMistawasis, I had to get away
from the reserve.
And so, speaking Cree, I feltit had no value.
Speak in Cree, I felt it had novalue.
(33:13):
And so, as my life went on, Ididn't leave Mr Woss's.
I kept coming back and thenwhen I started working with the
Lands Committee and with thebridge and starting to truly
understand what Mr Woss's wasand what we had, then my pride
as beinga member of Mr Woss'sstarted to grow.
I would never have done thiswhen I was in my younger years.
Nine percent of the time I weara shirt with a Mr Woss and the
(33:34):
Hayawack label a decal on thefront of it.
The jacket I wear other than mywinter jacket has a huge Mr
Woss and the Hayawack Lands andResources Department on the back
of it.
I'm proud to be from Mr Walshand I want people to know that
that's where I'm from, and wehad an event this past from the
(33:54):
U of S and one of the professors.
The statement they made was MrWalsh is one of the cool kids
and we want to hang out withthat cool kid, and so I think
that's probably what I want totry to convey to everybody, but
also to our band members that beproud of Mr Walsh.
It's a beautiful place andwe're going to make it even more
(34:15):
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
That's so wonderful, Roger.
I'm really proud to have beenable to speak with you today.
I really appreciate all thatyou've shared from your personal
and professional life.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Well, thank you, and I love the opportunity to share
Mr Wass's.
I'll take every chance I can.
I will gladly do that.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Thank you so much, Roger.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Take care Bye.
This is the Bridging RelationsPodcast.
Thank you for listening.
Looking forward to connectingwith you next time.
Funding for this project hasbeen provided by Agriculture and
Agri-Food Canada through theAgricultural Climate Solutions
(34:59):
Living Labs program.
Hello and welcome to the Bridging Relations podcast.
I'm your host, Michelle Brass.
Here we dive into diverseperspectives on agriculture and
land management, blendingWestern science and farmer
expertise with Indigenousknowledge and wisdom.
Together, we can addresschallenges and opportunities
that enhance agriculturalpractices to support healthy
(00:29):
land, water and sky for futuregenerations.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey.
On today's episode, we're goingto discuss historical barriers
and contemporary challengesrelated to farming on Mistawasis
Nation.
Roger Daniels is a member ofMistawasis.
He's lived there for all butthree years of his life.
(00:51):
He started his career workingin the band office and became
lands manager in 1989.
He's now the Treaty LandEntitlement Legacy Trust
Coordinator and has been in hiscurrent role for the last eight
years.
Over the years, Roger has triedmany different careers, but
always comes back to lands, Hi,Roger.
So tell me about yourself.
(01:12):
What was it like living most ofyour life on Mistawasis?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thinking back on it at the time it was just, it was
just life.
I was very privileged.
I didn't.
I didn't realize how lucky Iwas to be living on Mr Wass's
and the freedom that we had andjust how beautiful a place it is
.
And I think because I took itfor granted before when I was
(01:38):
growing up, it kind of makes mefeel stronger about it in my
later years that I want peopleto understand what Mistawasis
was and get it back to somesemblance of the beauty that
Mistawasis is.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's wonderful.
I love that cities Saskatoonand Regina but then I did live
10 years on reserve and canreally relate to just the beauty
, the stillness, just thedifferent atmosphere of being on
the land, absolutely.
So, living on Mistawasis andwe're talking about farming
today does your family have afarming background?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
We do, yes, with my stepdad.
We started out with, it seemslike my mom always had chickens.
Every spring she would get somechicks and then we'd look after
them, then they'd go in thechicken coop and then we ended
up so we had chickens and thenwe had geese, and then we had
turkeys, and then we had a milkcow which turned into two milk
(02:41):
cows, and then we had some hogs.
I think we probably had maybeabout six or eight hogs and then
I believe I would have beenaround 12 years old or so my
stepdad, through SIAP,saskatchewan Indian Agriculture
Program, got a corral barns andI believe it was about 50 head
(03:03):
of cattle and that's when weactually started our farm life,
I guess.
And so I grew up looking afterall these animals.
As I got older, my choresincreased and then, as I was
into my late teens, then I kindof took over for my stepdad and
my mom and then we did thatuntil probably about the mid-80s
(03:28):
, mid to late 80s, and thenslowly mainly because of
economics but also because mymom and stepdad had other
priorities we slowly got rid ofthe animals and then by the time
I started working in the bandoffice, which was roughly 1989
(03:50):
we no longer had animals.
So we had a little we had a runof about, I don't know, maybe
about 15 years or so, that wethat that we were farmers.
But did we also?
We also did a little bit ofcropping.
We would seed barley for feedor oats for green feed.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, okay.
So I mean, would you say it wasa fairly small operation for
your family, or was it larger?
What would be the size of thefarming that you guys did?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, it was fairly small because we just had the
one quarter section.
At the maximum we had 80animals.
But it's something that I couldlook after the animals myself
if needed.
So I'd say medium size, mediumsize for mistlewosses at the
time.
Yeah, we're probably right inthe middle.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Okay, wonderful.
One of the questions that oftengets asked when we're talking
about farming and First Nationsand land use, land management,
is this thought of why don'tFirst Nations do more farming,
farm their own land, farm onreserve?
Can you address that a littlebit?
It's one of these commonquestions and have you heard it
(05:04):
before?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I hear it all all the time, absolutely and personal
experience.
Before my stepdad startedselling the animals, I actually
applied for some loans to startfarming and a small operation.
My stepdad at that time hadthree certificates of possession
so that that was the only landthat we would be able to work on
(05:27):
and it wasn't big enough.
And because there was noguarantees as far as
agricultural leases with Mr Wass, as due to other band members
either farming or controllingthose, the land base just wasn't
there to to justify myselfstarting up.
And that's that's the era when,when the equipment wasn't that
(05:50):
expensive.
And so now, like it would bevery daunting, now again like
with they're no longer my, mystepdad certificates of
possession, but they're, they'remy, they're in my brother's
name now.
But even with three of thoseand trying to start up an
operation individually, it'sjust very, very hard.
(06:11):
And on reserve, because a lotof times with farmers, if they
go to either farm credit or abank for their operating loans,
part of the security is the landthat they own or that they're
leasing On reserve.
You can't mortgage or have anykind of a levy against reserve
(06:35):
land.
So basically the only assurancethat the bank would have would
be the crop that's coming off ofit, and farming is very risky,
and so I think banks arereluctant to proceed on reserve
lands, simply because of thesecurity.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Right right Now, and Roger tell me a bit about a
certificate of possessions.
For those who aren't aware,what is that?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay.
So on non-reserves, whensomeone owns a property they
hold it in fee simple.
So as long as they're payingthe taxes, then it's their
property.
There's no such thing asownership on reserve.
Title is held in His Majesty'sname for the use and benefit of
all members of Mr Wass's.
However, under the Indian Actthere was a section which made
(07:27):
it possible to issuecertificates of possession which
are exclusive use for anindividual band member and that
exclusive use is one level down,I guess, from fee simple.
It's the highest form ofholding on reserve.
It's basically the same asowning the property.
(07:48):
If chief of council want to dosome kind of a development or
anything, they need permissionfrom those CP holders to go onto
their land.
So I'm a band member, I don'thave a certificate of possession
, but if I wanted to go hunting,for example, the CP holder
could deny me access.
It hasn't happened but it couldand because of that now any
(08:13):
development that the band maywant to do is hindered by the
location of the certificates ofpossession.
And Mr Walsh has the largestamount of certificates of
possession in Saskatchewan.
At the moment we have, Ibelieve it's, 73, 74
certificates of possession.
At the peak it was 93.
(08:34):
And acre-wise that totalsroughly 10,000 acres, and on
Mistle-Wasses there's probablyabout 16,000 of cultivated acres
.
So a vast majority ofcultivated acres are held by
certificates of possessionholders.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Okay, so then, and correct me where I'm wrong, but
so when you're looking at aFirst Nation and reserve lands,
there would be a mix or acollection of both lands that
are there for the collective useof the band membership and then
the CP lands, which would befor the use of individuals or
families that inherited those CPlands.
So we'll get to the work andthe involvement with the bridge.
(09:15):
But you know we mentioned CPland.
What are some of the otherbarriers that prevent First
Nations, either collectively orindividually, from farming
operations?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I believe the biggest one is the experience and the
connection to the land.
I was at an event recentlywhere one of the speakers and I
didn't realize it until he saidit, but we have been at least
two generations removed fromfarming so we don't have that
experience anymore.
(09:45):
We don't have the young peoplegoing to the College of
Agriculture, we don't have themworking with local farmers to
get that experience.
So for myself, for example, yes, I grew up on a farm, but the
cropping part of it I don't havea lot of experience, in that my
(10:05):
deceased uncle had a larger andhe was mainly a cereal
traditional agriculture.
His two sons helped him, butthat's all they did.
They helped him.
The decision-making was done byhim and the marketing and the
financing and that that was alldone by him.
And I don't know if it's uniqueto Mr Wass's, but even with my
(10:29):
stepdad, when decisions neededto be made, he would make those
decisions.
He wouldn't consult, eventhough I was kind of his manager
.
He wouldn't consult with me.
He would just go ahead and makethose decisions.
And then another barrier isourselves, the collective band
members, because when a bandoperation is going on it's
(10:52):
almost like everybody needstheir share.
And if you don't understandfarming, you need to understand
that you have to put money backinto the operation to keep it
going.
And that's kind of where someof the issues arise, because we
have that now where we have aneconomic development arm and
(11:13):
they're putting money back intodeveloping businesses and we
have band members saying, well,how come you're not helping the
band, how come you're not givingmoney back.
So I guess we call themshareholders and they want their
share.
And also it's daunting theamount of money it costs these
days to farm, and you know wealways look at it as well.
(11:34):
We've got 16,000 acres inMistawasis.
How much money is that going tocost to get that into operation
?
Who's going to do it?
Who's going to operate thetractors?
Who's going to operate thecombines?
Who's going to be selling thegrain?
Who's going to be?
There's so many things that weneed to look at that it seems to
(11:54):
be so daunting that it's kindof pushed to the side.
Next year we'll look at it.
Next year we'll look at it.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Right, right.
So just the sheer size of itand having the capital or the
investment to make into it, andthen the people right, having
the right skills, and then thedesire.
Is that an issue as well, thedesire to go into farming and
agriculture as a career, or tolearn more, or having family
(12:22):
that has that knowledge to passon?
How big are those issues whenyou're looking at considering
this as an option?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I actually talked with our lands committee chair
almost about that issue, becausewe have a family on Mistawas
that raises cattle.
So the father has passed, sothe mother and two of the kids
have a herd of cattle then thenthe daughter has a herd of
cattle, so they kind of managethem together and I don't know
their daily routines.
All I know is that the son hasa full-time job and he has to do
(12:57):
farming after his job is doneso he has to go bailing.
Yeah, if cows get out, he's gotto go look after them.
So I asked our chairman andhe's related to that family how
are the grandchildren involvedin it?
Because they're starting to getolder.
There's actually onegranddaughter, I believe she's
in grade 10 or 11.
(13:18):
I asked do they contribute tothe farm?
And he said no, they don't, noton a daily basis In the spring
when there's branding or whenthey're moving the cattle.
The younger generation will beinvolved.
But that's about the extent ofit.
The actual managing of theanimals, the cutting of the hay,
(13:39):
the baling of the hay, haulingall of that stuff, moving the
animals, transporting theanimals for sale, all of that is
done by the son and the oldestdaughter, and so I guess that's
the only example that I have,and it's really hard to relate
(14:02):
to a lifestyle that you don'tknow.
You see that, and the biggestthing, I think, is we've gotten
to be so impatient and wantingconvenience, and it's tough,
like when I talk to mygrandchildren, my children.
When they were getting older, Italked to them about when we
farmed and plus 30, middle ofJuly, going to the lake, I was
(14:27):
heading out to the field to gocut hay or to bail Papa.
Why would you do that?
And it would be like becauseyou have to.
You needed to look after thoseanimals, and I think that's the
part that's missing is that,because you can always get
somebody to do what you do I'mgoing to be gone for a while, so
I need a fill-in.
Okay, here we go, you do, I'mgoing to be gone for a while, so
(14:49):
I need a fill-in.
Okay, here we go, here we go.
And with farming you can't.
I worked for our local farmer.
I drove combine, I drove allgrain for him and then I became
a dispatcher for him, and one ofthe biggest problems,
especially during seeding, isthat you want to get it done
within a month and after abouttwo weeks of every single day.
(15:09):
Guys are praying for rain sothat they can have a day off.
They're getting pressured fromtheir families.
Come and do this, come and dothat.
Well, I can't.
I have to work, and so there'sthat expectation of working
Monday to Friday, havingweekends off.
You can't do that.
(15:30):
You're putting in 16, 17, 18hour days and you don't have
room for anything else in yourlife except that, and it's
really hard to get somebody usedto doing that, and even though
it's only for a month.
But then you go into harvest,like this year I think harvest
started around the middle ofAugust, it just wrapped up a
(15:51):
couple weeks ago and that youstart later in the day, say 10
o'clock, but you can go until 3,4 o'clock in the morning, and
again you have to be ready to go.
So I think that want is notthere.
It's hard enough when you haveyoung people for a camp job oh
(16:13):
my God, I was there for twoweeks and that's nothing.
And so I think we need a totalchange and I think we need the
education first and then theexperience.
Like I mentioned the largefarmer that I worked for, he's
willing to help.
We get somebody that goesthrough the College of
(16:36):
Agriculture, he's willing tohelp them to learn how to become
a farmer.
So I guess that's a roundaboutway of answering that.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Right, there's many reasons for it, right, but just
like even just describing thelong hours, right and like, we
see that, like you know, drivingdown the highway and at the
harvest time of year, thecombines right and the lights
like after hours it's dark andit's all day to get it done and
it's it's a real lifestyle andand different maybe from what a
lot of people are used toabsolutely Absolutely.
So you know these are some ofthe contemporary issues.
(17:09):
Roger, can you tell me a bitabout any historical government
policies or any historicalissues that really led to
barriers being created?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, I'm not sure about policies.
I've never been a big reader ofpolicies.
I just understand how dailybusiness affects us and the
stories from my grandpa and mystepdad regarding after the
treaties.
Chief Mr Lawson was veryunderstanding that our
(17:40):
traditional way of life was goneand we had to change, and he
thought that change was throughfarming.
So the reserves were createdand there was a barrier right
there, because the reserve wascreated for the use and benefit
of all band members.
But when you talk about farming, it's for individuals, and so
we had a number of smaller farmson reserve that were competing
(18:05):
against each other for thelimited resources in Mistawasis,
for example, hay for cattle.
So the time that my stepdad gothis cattle, there was probably
about seven or eight bandmembers that got cattle at the
same time.
So we went from two or threefamilies to 11 families with
(18:26):
cattle.
Where are we going to cut hay?
Well, there's a slew over there.
No, this guy cuts that already.
Okay, here's one over here.
No, this guy cuts that.
So the resources were verylimited and we're competing
against each other for them, andso it started with individuals,
(18:46):
and that's how the certificatesof possession started Initially
a band member is given a rightof use and occupation and they
got to use that land.
If they improved it in twoyears, then they were issued a
certificate of possession onthat land.
For some reason or another, alot of those right of uses were
(19:07):
not transferred to CP.
So we actually could have had alot more.
So those individual bandmembers that had one quarter
section, they couldn't expand,so it was limited to just them,
and you can only raise a certainsize of family on a family farm
(19:28):
if you only have one quartersection.
And then also these farmerssome of them started to get
bigger.
They were buying up some of thecertificates of possession,
their farms were getting biggerand then their lifestyle got
better and then that inducedjealousy from band members that
(19:51):
well, if I had that land I coulddo that.
And so those are.
So just this is the way it was.
For example, my grandpa.
He ended up farming about 4,000acres, which was for the time
that was a lot, but a lot ofband members disliked him
because of that.
My oldest uncle took over thefarming operation.
(20:13):
A lot of band members that werefriends with him when my
grandpa had it.
Now he was basically the ownerof that farm.
They disliked him because andit's like today you see these
farms with this huge equipmentand all the facilities and
everything and you think, man,they're making a lot of money
(20:36):
and so they don't understandthat there's big payments behind
those.
So I don't know.
Again, I don't know so muchabout policies, but historically
that's kind of how it worked inMissouass.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, right.
Well, thank you for describingsome of that you know, and just
from my own knowledge too, justunderstanding just a lot of the
laws, like with the pass andpermit system, right, Like as
First Nations, we were confinedand incarcerated, essentially on
reserve for many years, notallowed to leave reserves
without the permission of theIndian agent, you know, to
(21:10):
travel to see for any reason, tosee family, to travel off,
without that permission, or evenjust permission to sell right,
Permission to sell any kind ofgrain or goods and needing that
permission.
So you know, having laws inplace that really restrict just
the freedom to do business, totravel, to move freely and to
(21:31):
adapt to the changes.
Right, because of course we hadtraditional lifestyles and our
own ancestral food systems inplace, and then, with the advent
of settlement and reserves, somuch of that changing so and
leading to today right To a lotof the barriers that we're
seeing in contemporary settingsthat have roots in historical
issues and so and it looksdifferent, like you said, you're
(21:52):
speaking on behalf ofMistawasis, you know.
And then there are other FirstNations that have a different
history in relation to farmingand what might be happening in
their communities.
So thank you for sharing all ofthat.
I really appreciate it.
When it comes to the future offarming in Mistawasas, what does
that look like for you?
What do you see happening?
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, first of all, thinking about Mistawasas and
farming, I was becoming verynegative and very skeptical that
we would ever be able to getthere, because how are we going
to farm 6,000 acres?
How are we going to farm 16,000?
So I realized that I wasbecoming very negative.
So I thought, well, no, let'stake it right back to the basics
(22:33):
and start with a small farm.
So I actually had presentationsfrom a gentleman from Ochapue's
and also from Cowessess, wherethey started their band farm on
one quarter section, and that'show they started and they grew
and they grew, and so now, forexample, this year in El Chapo,
(22:54):
they have 6,000 acres.
Next year they're going to goto 8,000.
So for Mistletoe Washes, that'sthe direction I think that we
need to go, and it's not goingto be in the next year or two,
because we're just plantingseeds in our grade 10, 11 and
12s that you're going to be thefarmers, you're going to be the
ones taking this.
So we need you to get yourselfeducated in crop sciences, in
(23:19):
becoming an agronomist, likewhatever.
Whatever is required becauseagriculture has become so
complicated.
You need to know so much inorder to grow that crop and then
that's just growing it.
Now you need to market it.
You need to understand that ifyou're going to do a contract,
(23:40):
that you have to make sureyou're able to fulfill that
contract in the fall.
So there's a lot of risk there.
But basically that's how I seeus in Mistawas is that we're
basically farmers right now,planting those seeds in our
younger people to try get thatinterest.
Another example of plantingthose seeds is that one of our
(24:02):
teachers is teaching a coursethis semester on agriculture.
So what he did was he madearrangements with our local
farmers for the school kids togo ride on combines and like
these are huge John Deere, likeamazing, like huge, huge pieces
of equipment, and so they wereable to go ride on them and get
(24:24):
the firsthand experience.
And that's what we need to doget that interest developed into
agriculture.
Over the last few years we'vebeen so focused on land-based
learning and getting back totraditional uses of land as
hunting, trapping, fishing,medicines, berry picking.
(24:45):
We need to put that focus backinto the agricultural part of
our society because there'salways going to be traditional
agriculture in Mistawasis and wewant to try and get our own
people to farm our own land.
But we haven't done it in somany years, we've forgotten how,
(25:06):
so we need to relearn that, andthat's by getting these young
people involved, and that'swhere the future is going to be
with them.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh, wonderful.
I'm curious to learn about how,being involved with Bridge to
Land Water Sky, how that hasimpacted farming on Mistawasis,
and just your thoughts on wherethings are at now and how it can
evolve into the future.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I think first and foremost it's given us the
contacts to the people, to theprofessionals, to the
experienced farmers.
Example our pasture.
Talk about rotating herds.
In Mistawasas we never had toworry about that because we
never had herds large enoughthat we would have to rotate
them.
So just educating ourselves andthen opening up our minds about
(26:01):
the possibilities and learningthat there's not just
traditional agriculture.
Before the bridge I started totalk with the lands committee
that we had a half section ofland that was clover that's all
it was, and it wasn't good foranybody.
It was marginal land that nevershould have been worked up.
So what are we going to do withit?
(26:22):
So we put a fence around it,put some cattle in there, they
got rid of the clover and thengrass started growing.
Our lands committee is soinvolved in what goes on in
Mistawasas.
Our chief and council give somuch support.
When I was land manager in the80s and 90s our lands office was
(26:43):
shoved way in the back becauseit was bookkeepingkeeping.
It was.
It was just registered.
It was all paperwork we didn'thave responsibility on.
On what happened in mr wasisgarbage was dumped.
We would get on the phone andcall the department of indian
affairs.
This is what's going on outhere.
We didn't have anyresponsibility.
There's no consequences in ourminds.
As for the management of landsand mr wasis, and then we
(27:08):
developed our land code andremoved ourselves from the
Indian Act on the sectionsrelating to lands.
And now if somebody came anddumped garbage, we have to call
ourselves.
We're the ones responsible forwhat happens in Mistawasis.
We make the decisions.
We don't rely on employees ofthe department to come out and
(27:29):
say you should do this or you dothat.
We decide those things now.
So it's taken a really change ofmind to make this work, and the
bridge helped us by againgetting us in contact with these
professionals.
A perfect example I use all thetime.
We've got a half-section ofland that we bought for our land
(27:51):
claims probably 15 years ago,tried to cultivate it one year.
The land was too light,couldn't do anything, so it sat
for all these years.
And then now the bridge camealong and said, hey, we can help
.
Okay, well, we'll work withducks and with the bridge.
We put a fence around there Ayear ago.
(28:12):
We were going to seed it downto grass.
So we were in a bridge meetingand said, okay, well, what are
you guys going to seed there?
Well, I don't know.
All we know is alfalfa andbrome.
All we know is alfalfa andbrome and the mix changes
whether you're going to becutting hay or whether you're
(28:33):
going to have it for pasture.
So I put it back on ourprofessionals by saying what do
you recommend?
What do you think would workthere?
I read the emails that wentback and forth and it was so
amazing that trying to figureout what to seed there could
generate so much discussion.
And it ended up that instead ofalfalfa brome, there's nine
(28:55):
different grass species, there'sthree different wheat grasses
that come from the arid areas ofthe province, and then Ducks
Unlimited on top of that puts intheir pollinator blend Stuff.
Like that we wouldn't be able todo.
We wouldn't have the expertise.
We wouldn't have the expertise,we wouldn't have the knowledge
and with the bridge, we are theonly Aboriginal-led living lab
(29:17):
in Canada.
So I was asked what does thatmean to you?
Well, at first I was like well,I don't know.
And then it got to me.
It helped me to understand whenI was asked that question is
that we never learned how tolead.
We were always being told byexperts, and even go further,
(29:38):
back to farm instructors, toIndian agents.
This is what's good for you,this is what you should do, this
is where you should go.
But now because, because of ourland code, because of the bridge
and because of our landscommittee and the support we get
from chief and council, we grewstrong enough to say this is
what we want, this is what wesee, this is the picture we see.
How can you help us to get tothat picture?
(30:01):
And an example is we have aquarter section that's adjacent
to one of our lakes.
It's been in production forprobably I don't know 30 years,
but it's right next to the lakeand there's always been
chemicals, there's always beenfertilizer, so we worry about
runoff.
But it's gotten to the pointnow in Mistawas where Mistawas
(30:24):
is not dependent on the incomecoming from the land.
So we have the choice now tosay nope, we don't need a crop
growing there.
So that quarter section wastaken out of production Through
the bridge, the baselines forcarbon sequestration, greenhouse
gas, all of that.
That was done.
So now the question was what doyou want there?
(30:46):
Well, I know what I want thereis.
I want it to look like the landthat's around it the, the
native grasses, the shrubs, thetrees.
But instead of that beingroger's idea, it was suggested
that we talk to the school kids.
So that was part of mypresentation, was talking about
the bridge, talk about aboutthis quarter section and asking
(31:07):
those young kids start thinkingabout what you would like to see
there and how it would benefitus.
And so again, it's going backto the youth, trying to get that
development of this is whatwe're going to end up seeing
there.
Then when they drive by thereevery year they'll say I was
part of that.
When we talk about the bridge,it's generated interest in the
(31:30):
kids in the birds and the smallanimals that are out there so
that we get to know what's outthere.
We have so many different typesof animals and actually it's a
different funding area but we'regetting bison and so the bridge
has involved some of theindividuals that have done on
(31:52):
identifying pasture areas andthe health of that area.
They're also helping with wherewe're going to put bison.
So all these things.
And we're talking aboutentomology bees.
We don't have beehives anywhere, so let's bring bees.
So there's so many of these, Iguess, side effects of the
(32:12):
bridge.
Bridge helped us open our mindsand to accept that, yes, we can
do something, yes, we, we canmake a change and we, ultimately
, we have to look after ourlittle part that's so wonderful.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Roger, is there anything that you feel is
important to share that Ihaven't asked you yet?
Speaker 2 (32:30):
As I'm driving home I'll probably say, geez, I
should have thought I shouldhave done, but no, I think the
biggest thing is the pride thatI have in Mr Wossus.
When my dad went to residentialschool, he was punished for
speaking Cree.
So when he married my mom andthey started having kids, he
said my kids are not going tospeak Cree.
So when he married my mom andthey started having kids, he
said my kids are not going tospeak Cree.
And as I was growing up, I hadno issue with that because I was
(32:53):
going to go into business world.
I was going to be an accountantor work in a bank.
I wasn't going to live inMistawasis, I had to get away
from the reserve.
And so, speaking Cree, I feltit had no value.
Speak in Cree, I felt it had novalue.
(33:13):
And so, as my life went on, Ididn't leave Mr Woss's.
I kept coming back and thenwhen I started working with the
Lands Committee and with thebridge and starting to truly
understand what Mr Woss's wasand what we had, then my pride
as beinga member of Mr Woss'sstarted to grow.
I would never have done thiswhen I was in my younger years.
Nine percent of the time I weara shirt with a Mr Woss and the
(33:34):
Hayawack label a decal on thefront of it.
The jacket I wear other than mywinter jacket has a huge Mr
Woss and the Hayawack Lands andResources Department on the back
of it.
I'm proud to be from Mr Walshand I want people to know that
that's where I'm from, and wehad an event this past from the
(33:54):
U of S and one of the professors.
The statement they made was MrWalsh is one of the cool kids
and we want to hang out withthat cool kid, and so I think
that's probably what I want totry to convey to everybody, but
also to our band members that beproud of Mr Walsh.
It's a beautiful place andwe're going to make it even more
(34:15):
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
That's so wonderful, Roger.
I'm really proud to have beenable to speak with you today.
I really appreciate all thatyou've shared from your personal
and professional life.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Well, thank you, and I love the opportunity to share
Mr Wass's.
I'll take every chance I can.
I will gladly do that.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Thank you so much, Roger.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Take care Bye.
This is the Bridging RelationsPodcast.
Thank you for listening.
Looking forward to connectingwith you next time.
Funding for this project hasbeen provided by Agriculture and
Agri-Food Canada through theAgricultural Climate Solutions
(34:59):
Living Labs program.
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