Blaming Toxicity from Below: Therapist Burnout, Leadership…

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Guest: Katie May, MA, LPC (she/her)
Host: Kayla Schubert-Wirth, MSW, LCSW  (she/her) | Burnout & Bullshit: Real Stories from the Mental Health Field

Summary:
What if the gaslighting isn’t coming from the top down—but from “below”? In this raw and unfiltered episode, therapist and leadership coach Katie May, LPC joins Kayla to dismantle one of the most harmful deflections in group practice culture:
 

👉 “Sometimes the toxicity comes from below.”

Yeah… no.

From her early days in a partial hospitalization program to building a sustainable, values-aligned group practice, Katie shares the lessons no one tells you about leadership, accountability, and what it actually takes to build a workplace where people don’t ghost you after giving notice.

Whether you’re a therapist who's been scapegoated—or a group practice owner ready to face hard truths—this episode will challenge, validate, and empower you.

🔥 Topics Covered:

• What “toxicity from below” really means
• How shady onboarding and passive-aggressive policies breed burnout
• Boundaries, supervision, and real leadership vs. control
• Questions to ask in therapist interviews
• How to spot hiring red flags
• Why clients aren’t property—and how that mindset hurts everyone
• What it looks like to lead with integrity

🧠 Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction to Toxic Leadership
 02:01 – Why “Toxicity from Below” Is a Myth
 03:10 – Clear Expectations as a Practice Owner
 05:56 – Supervision and Communication
 07:26 – Leadership Starts with Inner Work
 10:04 – Clients Are Not Property
 13:05 – Interview Questions for Therapists
 15:08 – Red Flags to Spot When Job Hunting
 19:12 – When a Practice Works Too Well
25:37 – What is Stabilize & Scale
28:58 – Final Reflections: Responsibility at the Top

✨ Resources & Links:

🔹 Katie May’s Stabilize & Scale Program
Group practice owner? Build values-driven systems that actually work.
👉 becomeagroupguru.com/scale

🔹 Work with Kayla
Burned out by broken systems? Build a practice that honors you.
👉 gritandgracepsychotherapy.com 

💌 Be Part of the Show:

📝 Apply to be a guest:
https://forms.gle/fvm82tXdhRmpZ2TE7

🕵️‍♀️ Submit a story anonymously:
https://forms.gle/snoC3Qiz2WxCMKW57

📬 Join Kayla’s Email List for therapist support, raw stories, and no-BS biz tips:
https://kaylaschubertwirth.myflodesk.com/overit

📲 Tag us on Instagram @therapy_with_kayla and let us know what part hit hardest.

💥 Keywords: burnout, therapist burnout, toxic workplace, leadership in therapy, group practice, private practice growth, therapist support, supervision, onboarding, therapist interviews, boundaries, business coaching, mental health podcast

This podcast includes personal opinions and experiences shared by guests and anonymous contributors. All identifying details may be changed to protect confidentiality. These stories are intended for educational and storytelling purposes and are not meant to defame, accuse, or harm any person or organization. Any resemblance to real persons or entities is purely coincidental.