Trust your gut when something feels off—especially when the field tells you to stay silent.
In this powerful episode, therapist Larissa Trelles (she/they) shares their raw and courageous journey from first-gen therapy client to becoming a therapist navigating racism, safety threats, and exploitation in the mental health system.
From conducting mobile therapy alone in rural areas during COVID as a Latina intern to confronting unethical leadership, racist microaggressions, and predatory contracts, Larissa’s story is both a warning and a reclamation.
This episode isn’t just about burnout. It’s about survival. It’s about choosing your safety over someone else’s comfort. It’s about showing up in the field without erasing who you are.
Whether you're a new therapist, an associate in a toxic job, or someone who feels like you’ve been gaslit by your own profession—this one’s for you.
🔑 3 Key Takeaways:
1. Listen to Your Gut—It’s There to Protect You
If your body feels unsafe, don’t gaslight yourself into staying. Therapists with marginalized identities often face real threats disguised as “training opportunities.” Your intuition isn’t paranoia—it’s wisdom.
2. Authenticity Isn’t Unprofessional—It’s What Clients Crave
Being asked to erase your identity—tattoos, piercings, language, culture—is not a requirement for clinical work. Larissa reminds us that clients thrive when therapists show up fully as themselves.
3. You Don’t Have to Earn Your Worth by Suffering
Being underpaid, overworked, and mistreated isn’t a rite of passage. You are allowed to say no. You are allowed to leave. You are allowed to build something better.
About Larissa Trelles:
IG @mindfulpsychotherapeutics
Larissa Trelles (she/they) is an indigiqueer, neurospicy Latine therapist offering psychotherapy in English, Portuguese, and Spanish. As a first-gen professional committed to anti-oppressive, decolonizing clinical care, Larissa works with LGBTQIA2S+ and BIPOC communities to reclaim identity, healing, and autonomy. They adapt their work to the lived experience of each client—centering authenticity, ancestral wisdom, and radical safety in all they do.
Larissa has current openings for new clients: https://www.inclusivetherapists.com/delaware/rehoboth-beach/larissa-trelles
Work With Kayla:
Burned out by broken systems? Let’s build a practice that actually works for you.
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📬 Get Involved:
📝 Want to be a guest? Apply here: Guest Application
🕵️♀️ Got a story to share anonymously? Submit here
📬 Join Kayla’s list for therapist support, raw stories, & no-BS biz tips: Subscribe
📲 Tag us on IG: @therapy_with_kayla
Keywords: therapist burnout, toxic internship, BIPOC therapist experience, Latina therapist, first-gen therapist, associate therapist exploitation, predatory private practice, decolonizing mental health, authentic therapy practice, unethical therapy leadershi
This podcast includes personal opinions and experiences shared by guests and anonymous contributors. All identifying details may be changed to protect confidentiality. These stories are intended for educational and storytelling purposes and are not meant to defame, accuse, or harm any person or organization. Any resemblance to real persons or entities is purely coin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (00:00):
Hi Larissa.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm happy to be here.
That's what we do as therapists.
What made you choose thiswonderful field?
Larissa Trelles she/they (00:10):
It started by having mental health
struggles myself and getting toa point where I realized I
needed additional help, and thenhaving such a good experience
with my first therapist.
That's so unusual too, I feellike yeah, and I think what
really helped me as being afirst gen Latina, being
(00:31):
surrounded by a lot of friendsand family that have blue collar
jobs, so having him as accessof okay, if you go to school,
make sure it's accredited bythis place.
Don't fall for the marketingadjacent equivalent no, it's
accredited by this place.
Don't fall for the marketingadjacent equivalent.
No, it's accredited or it's not.
I remember also one of mycoworkers who was pretty much a
(00:52):
work mom saying you're too smartfor this.
I see potential in you.
You said you want to go back toschool.
Do it Just go all in.
In that process, I also movedfrom where I used to live.
I originally from North Jerseyand then I moved to Southern
Delaware.
How were those experiences foryou?
It was basically like swampyass on a summer day because a
(01:17):
lot of internship places.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (01:19):
I need a working definition of
swampy.
Larissa Trelles she/they (01:21):
Yes just like uncomfortable, sticky.
You don't know how to navigateit.
I moved out on completely on myown by age 19.
I was parentified before that.
In that process I had moved.
I moved to Delaware November2020.
And I started calling.
I started emailing.
One thing that I noticed thatwas culture shock is just
(01:43):
emailing and contacting peopledown here and not having that
immediacy or response at all,versus being close to New York
where everything's just, yes, nokind of thing.
So the only place that itworked out was mobile outpatient
.
Mobile outpatient and you go totheir homes in the middle of
COVID.
Yeah, that was scary, but I hadtaken a to their homes in the
(02:05):
middle of COVID.
Yeah, that that was scary, butI had taken a lot of risks in
the past.
In retrospect, covid I'mexposing myself a lot and, for
those people that are listening,I am of tan skin.
There's just no denying that.
I am a Latina and I moved tosouthern Delaware, which,
historically, was on the wrongside of the civil war.
So I'm going into people'shouses and some people were kind
(02:29):
and others were not, and theonly good thing, well, two, you
are going to be able to meetyour hours and I'm like okay,
let's do this.
So I was able to figure out away where I would do my
internship and all my hourswould count because I was doing
therapeutic work.
But I would do my internshipand all my hours would count
because I was doing therapeuticwork, but I would be getting
paid at like $17 an hour versuszero.
(02:52):
Wow, you got lucky.
Yeah, and I think they werelike oh, and she's bilingual,
and blah, blah, blah.
So this rural area, like Iprovided services, sometimes
inside of a horse farm whichthere's a very interesting story
with that one because thecamper was really smelly and I
wasn't feeling comfortable.
But I tried to be very subtleand like let's, let's try and
(03:15):
walk around, and then I likeright, working in people's homes
there, what?
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (03:21):
and you saying that I there is,
this I did in home.
This might have been myinternship too, where we were
doing in-home family therapyalone, because, you know, let's
set interns alone in the fuckingfield yeah, yeah, and the
highest level of acuity with theleast amount of preparation
always, and they were so where Ilive, more rural kind of like
you're talking about, and theywere like, oh, let's meet
outside.
And they were cleaning theirboat and I was like, oh, oh, my
(03:44):
god, this is interesting.
Fuck, am I supposed to do withthis?
Larissa Trelles she/they (03:48):
like I went in a meth house that got
busted a couple weeks before andsafety, and that's what the
what I had envisioned for myselfand this exposure to community
mental health was, was the proofthat that environment was not
for me, for multiple reasons forsafety, for biases based on the
way that I present, the waythat I speak, the way that I
(04:10):
look, assumptions that I shouldbe able to handle being in a
camper in the middle of thesummer that not only stinks but
that has no AC, because I amfrom Mexico, I am not from Wait
did someone say that to you?
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (04:25):
Yes , oh, my fucking God.
Larissa Trelles she/they (04:26):
At that moment of those panning
into the camera, that justfucking happened and I was like
okay.
And I was like actually Ecuador, where I'm from.
And then I'm like, wait aminute, this person doesn't even
know how to read or write.
Why am I educating, why am Iexplaining myself?
And there's also constantdifficulties in specifically
with that family.
(04:47):
But I would notice what made itextremely obvious was there
were two children and one wasassigned to me and then the
other one was assigned tosomeone else who happened to be
a white woman.
She had no issues getting intouch with him, he was open and
blah, blah, blah, blah.
They were similar in multipleways versus obviously not me.
And I remember bringing that upto the, the internship place,
(05:12):
and I was like, and then it wasbeing minimized by the person
that had success and I was like,are we just going to?
Also, I wasn't as outspoken asI am now and I think that power
dynamic and being an intern andnot want to ruffle off any
feathers and it was just like Ilook a specific way and that's
going to cause certain issues.
So it's that that was a bigthing and I also recognize the
(05:36):
universe was looking out for mebecause I was able to make it
out safe, because I'm in themiddle of nowhere, no one's
going to hear you.
Exactly, I was the only one onthe road, so I was like if
aliens were to abduct me, no onewould find out, and that's
maybe the best case scenario,because you get abducted by the
cool ones.
But yeah, it was.
(05:57):
And if something happened?
And even just being femmepresenting there's just all
these intersections of identitythat marginalize you even more.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (06:09):
And that, for specific people,
dehumanize you too.
And I remember someone askingme going in the city, where
we're at, versus rural, and Iwas like I would rather go into
the city all day long.
And they're like why?
And I said because if I yell,everyone's going to turn around
and see if I'm psychotic or not.
No one's going to hear me, noone's going to know you're
missing.
Larissa Trelles she/they (06:25):
Right yeah.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (06:26):
And the safety thing.
And two I can only imagineright being in this area right,
because you're saying it's onthe opposite side of the Civil
War.
Right, and being a brown womanright, like you're a Latina and
working with these white folks.
I think too.
How do we also bring attentionto this around?
Also, safety concerns.
Larissa Trelles she/they (06:43):
Yeah, well, and that's the thing, even
when I brought up certainthings like it was dismissed by
one part of it and and it wasjust like then one of my, like
the director of the program,who's black, was like I'm sorry
that you went through that, andthat felt a little weird, first
of all, that she shouldn't beapologizing because she didn't
do anything directly to me, butshe was also in charge of me
(07:04):
being assigned to specificplaces and there was just and
the thing is, when I would bringup problems to them, I then got
in contact with, like otherpeople that were doing similar
positions and it was theseproblems all the time, also
perpetrated by like thediagnosis came from the state
and it was.
It was so contrasting when thepatient was white versus when
(07:26):
the patient was black.
Absolutely, you, you see all ofthese like defiance and
aggression and all of thesethings, and then and I remember
seeing that this is, this is adiagnosis that the state is
giving you, and we know andwe're told in school how
diagnosis can follow you for therest of your life I ended up in
a very messy situation.
(07:46):
Safety, we're going to throwthat one out the window.
We're going to send you a femmepresenting individual to work
with someone that has been courtordered to receive these
services as violently sexual,like there's.
There was like sexual violencehappening, and that's why I'm
going into your house.
You couldn't assign a malethese services as violently
sexual, like there's.
There was like sexual violencehappening and that's why I'm
going into your house.
You couldn't assign a male.
(08:07):
You can assign a male that I'malso five, two.
There's just.
There's just no way.
I gave that case my all, but Istarted picking up on certain
things I'm receiving textmessages and calls during the
weekend, which that definitelyallowed me to create healthier
boundaries.
But then the worker that wasassigned to the case was besties
with mom and I told my directorand I was this is bad.
(08:30):
And then I found out that theclient reoffended and that the
family kind of tried to cover itup because they happened to be
in a position of power, andthat's when I told the owner of
the company I was I cannot giveit my all, and I think this is a
moment early on in my careerthat I realized that working
(08:53):
with a sex offender, andspecifically a sex offender that
does not want to change andthat is surrounded by an
enabling support system is justnot the thing for me.
And she was saying no more, I'mgoing to send a letter to the
state.
We take so many of their cases.
They can't come and fight mebecause I'm saying that we are
releasing this case.
(09:14):
And that felt nice.
I do have to say that even inthe negativity, that did feel
really nice of being able tofigure out where I didn't feel
comfortable and having thatexperience early on in my
formation years allowing me tosubsequently do that once I was
out of school.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (09:32):
I think that's absolutely amazing
.
Right To A use your voice in aplace where and this was during
your internship right.
So use your voice as an internto be no, and then that person
be okay, you know what.
You're right.
There's so many places and somany people who we go to to
upper management and be like wecan't do this and they're like,
well, that sucks, I think it'syour own fault.
Like go back out.
Larissa Trelles she/they (09:52):
Yep, yep, because that's basically
what happened to me aftergraduation.
I was definitely in settingswhere it was like I'm telling
you that there's this populationthat I'm not going to work with
or that I'm trying to get awayfrom, and it's just like the not
being heard and you just haveto pay your dues, the
normalization that we have tosuffer, that we have to suffer
financially, that we have tosuffer emotionally and mentally
(10:16):
and even our physical securityat stake, and that's what you
just have to do.
Don't cry about it.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/ (10:22):
Don't cry, Don't show emotions.
That's not professional in ourfield.
What did you do after gradschool?
We're a family here.
Red flag during interviewprocess people.
Larissa Trelles she/they (10:32):
Yes, and that's the thing.
The person that interviewed mewas a director of the department
, very friendly, came across asvery genuine, so I felt really
good about my decision.
I start in November.
There are just all these thingsthat started coming up and I
was it got to a point where Ijust couldn't look away because
I was bothered, as well asnoticing that the person that
(10:55):
interviewed me that was really,really, really seemed really
approachable and really nicestarted becoming very passive,
aggressive and very and shewould look, she would look down
on me.
It's not too much right nowthat people clip or anything,
but I typically have very brightpurple hair I love it.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (11:15):
I used to have purple hair too.
Larissa Trelles she/they (11:15):
I'm like, yeah, purple hair people I
have piercings, I have eighttattoos and all these things and
all of that seemed to be okay.
But then there was thisexpectation that you had to
dress very corporate and I waslike I got to talk to you
because these things are alittle confusing, just a lot of
bullshit.
(11:36):
So I wore jeans, I wore jeansall the time and then I found
out that she was the director'sminion.
That always happens.
She lived up her asshole.
That's exactly that's what Ithink, because it was just too
much.
I was like, oh my God, thesetwo highly unlikable people.
In the span of six months,people start disappearing.
(11:58):
There was one person that Ibecame really close friends with
and I remember telling her mygrievances.
I was like I feel like I'mtreated differently, like I get
all these passive, aggressiveemails and whatnot.
And she was like oh, that'slike she would just hold space
for me, but didn't she alwayspushed me to be positive that
potentially, that wasn'thappening.
(12:19):
Plot twist, at the end she waslike yes, you are treated
differently.
I started picking up becausethey didn't know how close we
were, so she ended up hearingconversations and hearing things
and she's like you're 100%right, so if you want to leave,
you leave.
Six months in, they tell us thatwe have to go for a performance
review.
Sounds about right.
We go into this review per se.
(12:40):
It's a meeting, it's thedirector, and then this person
that's HR director positionalways looked at you like you
had shit all over you.
She would look at you up anddown.
I don't know what her deal was.
Then the conversation comes upwith reimbursement and the
hugest crock of shit that I haveever heard in my life that
because of COVID, they werereimbursing less.
(13:03):
They were reimbursing lessspecifically because I was an
associate.
So you are underestimating myintelligence.
I may look younger than I am,but I am not stupid.
So I was like wait a minute, soI take out my little notebook.
Actually, I saw that Aetnawe're getting reimbursed X
amount.
Highmark, which is the BlueCross, blue Shield in Delaware,
(13:25):
we used to be 125 something.
So I'm throwing these numbersand I'm just getting dismissed
and they're like so because ofthat, we have to make a change
in the contract.
There's two options.
Whether you stay salaried, youhad to see like 130 people a
month to keep your benefits, asis your insurance.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/h (13:44):
Damn , I was back too, and 130
clients a month is 32 and a halfclients a week.
Right, that's a lot.
Larissa Trelles she/they (13:52):
Yeah, I was fuming and I think that
was one of the biggest eventsthat radicalized me.
So then they come back and itwas like, oh well, just let us
know what decision.
And I was like I can't do thesalary, it just, it just does
not work Around.
The same time I started pickingup that actually I did an
experiment.
I was like I think that what Isay in supervision is getting
(14:16):
back to the director.
Let me, let me play, find out.
Yeah, I was like okay, so youthink you bitches think I'm
stupid.
I'm going to come here with mynotebook, I'm going to play your
game, I'm going to put somestuff out there and I'm going to
see if it comes back.
Didn't Long and behold, it did.
And I was like like fuck you.
I also noticed her demeanor,because she was affected too.
(14:38):
But she was like this, she wasmad and then she wasn't and I
was like I wonder what the fuckthey gave her.
So we are not fighting the samefight.
All these people got together.
Then they didn't.
I remember there was a momentthat I told one of the
clinicians that had a very longtime doing their not necessarily
working for them, mind you.
This all happened in the spanof a year of the place opening
(15:00):
at least the division, becausethey were connect, they're
connected to medical, but theyopened branch of mental health.
We get the new contract and thecontract basically it's
basically slavery, becausethey're giving me like 50 or 55
and I try to negotiate somethingbecause of me being fluent in
in Spanish.
(15:21):
That didn't pan out becauseobviously you don't care.
This is the part that reallyworried me.
There was a clause againstmoonlighting so I couldn't work
anywhere else.
I remember telling this olderclinician saying my ancestors
did not fight against theSpaniards for me to put up with
this shit.
When I tell you that I had thisfire that came from my ass all
(15:44):
the way up to my head because itfelt so unfair that I was like
no, and at that point I started.
I had already kind of met withsomeone and it was very up in
the air, but I was like I'm notstaying here Close to the end
and I get tested at theirmedical facility.
So I have your medical proofthat I have COVID, but you don't
(16:05):
give a shit because you don'tcare about me, which also to me
tells me you don't care aboutclients.
Correct.
But no, we're all aboutself-care and whatnot.
Okay, you're not.
You're about the bottom line inyour business and that's the
only thing.
But yeah, the same thing.
I'm struggling, trying to makeends meet because you fucked me
over and I could barely pay myrent.
(16:25):
But then I see, like thedirector and the owner of the
company and like they got theirbrand new ass cars, houses and
all that stuff and I was justlike this just doesn't sit right
with me.
I am sent a piece of paper thatI have to sign, some kind of
like disciplinary thing.
I don't like.
I'm in fucking kindergarten,mind you, I'm the youngest.
What is going on?
But meanwhile I'm interviewingwith places and then I'm picking
(16:49):
up on the pattern.
This is very exploitive andpredatory.
You want to take such a bigchunk of my pay and whatnot and
I was like it was just notworking.
And then I was able to connectwith someone to be my supervisor
.
But I wasn't stupid.
They asked me where I was gonnago when I left and I wasn't
gonna tell them becausesomething in my gut told me not
(17:10):
to.
Clearly I couldn't trust youbecause in six months you just
flipped the script and all of asudden it's a whole story and
you're changing the rules andnot the ones that I initially
agreed upon.
So that happens and then I givemy two weeks, I leave and with
that it was like, well, you know, we can't really tell clients
where you're going and all ofthat.
(17:31):
It's all this bullshit thatyou're trying to create a
barrier.
So I was very open and I alsotold some of the clinicians that
and other like medicalproviders that worked, that in
the state of Delaware, as it isthe case in multiple states, the
clients and patients have theability to choose care, right,
self determination, people Also.
(17:54):
Do you really care about peopleBecause you are becoming a huge
barrier in their continuationof care?
So I was like I'm leaving, thisis my phone number.
I'm like I don't know what theins and outs.
You could always Google me,like there's always that option.
I would say about 95% of myclient list followed me.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (18:14):
Did you have a client ever?
When you said you were leaving,I know, I was like I can't tell
you where I was leaving and Ihad a client in session pull out
her phone and be like is thisyour website, your new website?
And I was like but bitch, putyour fucking phone down.
Yes, leave me alone, not inthis room, I might be
microphoned.
Larissa Trelles she/the (18:29):
Exactly .
And that's the thing, too, ofnot knowing.
And I remember in the beginningI was like look, I don't know
what details I can share justyet, but know that you are in
control and you can choose whereyou seek care.
There's Google.
So I left.
And then people that found meor that we contact they're like
I'm getting calls.
(18:50):
So what happened is they werereally trying to figure out how
is it that I got credentialed?
I found out through multipleavenues and also her little
minion found out throughmultiple avenues.
And also her little minion cameout of her asshole and was like
oh, are you sure you're goingto be able to see people?
And I was just so thrown off byit.
I tell you they should bethankful that it was Larissa
(19:10):
from back then and not Larissafrom right now, because I would
be like bitch, what is yourproblem?
I will no longer be connectedto this institution or this
organization.
What I do for it is my fuckingbusiness and get out of my face.
I have left since then.
I have left even the otherplace.
Once I was able to be fullylicensed, I had at least 10
(19:34):
people tell me that they werecalling them and saying, like
just make sure that you, likeyour insurance, is going to be
able to accept it or that she'sactually credentialed all of
these variations of these things, which, again, very unethical.
You know how I took fuckingprofessional.
Exactly remember how I told youthat you did billing and
credentialing, yes, well, notonly that, but how I told you
(19:56):
that people were falling off inthat first year.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/ (20:00):
eight people left Jesus.
That's a big red fucking flag.
Larissa Trelles she/they (20:04):
Eight people left and then I found out
that people disappeared and weweren't able to talk to them
because they use scare tactics.
There was like a no contact orelse they had to pay money.
Like it was just all this andI'm like that's how you move.
I don't want to be associatedwith a place like that at all.
(20:24):
And I had a client I don't care, they called me and if you
didn't take my insurance, I'llsell feet pics.
I don't care, my connectionwith you is more important than
anything else.
It just felt really.
It felt really gross and it'sare fucking wild, yeah, and like
the space that I am now thatI've rent, it's basically other
(20:46):
clinicians that have left verytoxic workplaces and it's being
just tired, being fed up withbeing taken advantage of.
And you know, what I thinkhappened is that the people that
left before me were fullylicensed, so there were.
They legit thought that I wasgoing to stay and I was going to
be their bitch because I was anassociate.
Yep, I think that's very commontoo, because they're like this
(21:08):
is a fantastic option you'regonna have to put up and jump
through all the hoops that wepresent for you because you're
not fully licensed and clearly,with even like trying to plant
the seed of doubt within thepeople that followed me, it was
clear that they were panicking.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (21:24):
And I think too in this field, is
when because you don't ever knowwho's buddy buddy with people,
so you also don't know, and Iknow.
For me, with C-Stuff, I thinkit's the ADHD superpower of
looking at patterns, patternrecognition I can tell you who
likes who.
Based off my local facebookgroup, based off the referrals
and people die when I'm like, oh, look here, and they're like
holy fuck.
I'm like it's right in front ofyour face, look at it.
(21:45):
Who do?
I trust saying this to see ifother people are seeing this.
And if I tell this person, isit going to get back to
management, I mean there's afriend.
Larissa Trelles she/they (21:52):
There are two friends that I made
there that I'm still very closewith and I'm thankful because,
especially when shit went south,it became very clear and I even
had one of them apologize andshe was like I wasn't aware of
the privilege that I had and howI was treated differently than
you were, and I'm so sorry thatI was ever selfish and that I
didn't and that I asked you tostay, but you leaving actually
(22:15):
gave me courage to leave andstart my own thing and she's
like and the fact that you are Ithink it's maybe 10 or 15 years
younger and she was like yougave me.
You were able to believe inyourself, even without the
security of being fully licensedand all of these things.
So if you were able to do it, Iknew that I had what it takes
to and and that was really,really validating.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/h (22:36):
What advice would you give a new
therapist or somebody in thatsituation who's in this right
now?
Larissa Trelles she/they (22:42):
Just don't put up with the bullshit.
No, and especially as anassociate, there's so much of a
power dynamic in that andfeeling like, yes, you don't
want to ruffle feathers or theytell you that these are how
things are done.
And just because it's commonpractice, it doesn't mean that
it's right and we look at itsocial work, counseling, just in
(23:04):
general, and reach out, putyourself out there and, I think,
listening to your gut, thosethings when you start feeling
uncomfortable, as it happenswith any job, when you're
dreading to go back, when yourstomach's really tight, your
body's tense, there's a exactlyand there's a lot of ancestral
(23:26):
wisdom that lives within us thatthese spaces that we are we've
been told that are safe, thatwe've been told that.
Also, the gaslighting that Iendured, even from people around
, because I don't want to saythat I was the only BIPOC, but I
was the only Latina and Iremember even saying something.
(23:47):
Now I know my mother-in-law isfucking crazy and fucking racist
, so she was like no, it's notbecause of that and it's like
bitch, you would never gothrough that.
That's why, and being soremoved from my circle and being
exposed to so much diversitywhere it's not abnormal, it's
just I'm, I'm just anotherLatina the fact that if you're
(24:08):
being told that you have todress different, that you have
to remove piercings, that youhave to cover your tattoos, our
clients thrive on us showing upauthentically.
I have experienced that as aclient myself when I moved to
Delaware.
I remember finding thistherapist First of all, how hard
it is to find someone and Iremember I saw her.
(24:31):
She was white but covered inpiercings and covered in tattoos
and I was like that's a personthat is not afraid to show up as
themselves.
I can tell her anything aboutmy life and she's not going to
judge me.
Yeah, Like, how are we asclinicians supposed to tell
clients to stand up forthemselves, to set boundaries,
(24:52):
to teach other people how totreat them and to be authentic
if we're being to wash ourselvesout, to water ourselves down,
to make ourselves more palatable?
And, specifically for my BIPOCpeople, there's a lot of this
field.
I talk about the DSM even in myintro.
I'm like look me and that bookhave a very complicated
(25:14):
relationship because until the1970s, it said, homosexuality
was, was a mental healthdiagnosis, and not only that,
but it was pathologizing,something that is very natural
and I said we're going to takewhat serves us, since we leave
the rest.
We need it for insurance andthat's all good.
For other folks, diagnosis canbe very life-affirming, but that
(25:35):
book was developed by cis hetmiddle-aged upper class white
men and anything that dares toexist out of that very narrow
box is pathologized.
And they tell us don't showyour expressions or don't
certain things.
I tell them we can cursebecause I'll have people
apologize and I'm like no, no,let's fucking go.
(25:57):
Yeah, I was like I said, somepeople sometimes just fucking
suck and when you have toexplain things, regular bland
language is not enough toencapsulate everything that
you're trying to say.
And also, I tell them I don'ttake myself too seriously.
I don't assume that I'm theexpert.
I saw your picture back when Iwas in psychology today and I
(26:18):
loved it.
You were just so vibrant.
And I'm also very open about mebeing NeuroSpicy, my queerness,
my connection to my indigenousroots and how I center my work
around decolonizing, and thatthat's not only limited to those
of us that come from indigenouscommunities, that there's a lot
(26:39):
of.
There's this wonderful doctorthat he is basically who I can
see myself be and he is a queertherapist, but that has a
doctorate in human sexuality,which is what I'm going to
school for right now, and he ishe's half indigenous and half
European, and he talks about howwe can decolonize and even
(27:00):
indigenize, but also de-settle,and how a lot of us, regardless
of where we stand in our socialmobility, can contribute to the
settler narrative.
And it's that just.
It doesn't feel right.
If your body starts telling youthat it's unsafe, then find
other options.
You have to walk the walk,especially if we're telling our
clients that we're rooting forthem and that we want them to
(27:23):
live full and authentic livesand not do that for ourselves.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (27:27):
I want to give a homework
assignment to everyone.
Listening is go on PsychologyToday and just look at pictures
and see if you would see any ofthose therapists, because I know
damn well, I try to go on thereand I was no, no, no, no, no.
You all look the fucking same.
No one wants to see that.
Larissa Trelles she/they (27:45):
No and one thing that I'm really proud
of I looked up people in 2020and then I had to look people up
in 2024.
And I was able to find aCaribbean therapist that somehow
lived for a certain amount ofmonths in Ecuador so knows about
(28:06):
the food and lived in Ecuadorin the city where my parents are
from, and I lived a portion ofmy life, so not feeling like I
have to translate who I am hasbeen incredibly meaningful, and
we ended up having suchcollective experiences about
stuff that I couldn't evenimagine and it's been really
life affirming and life saving,especially as we navigate these
(28:28):
very difficult times of someonethat it's like I know.
You don't have to explainyourself, you don't have to
justify that you think or thatyou're acting that way, and
that's what the experienceshould be for anybody really
happy to be here.
Hi Larissa.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm happy to be here.
That's what we do as therapists.
What made you choose thiswonderful field?
Larissa Trelles she/they (00:10):
It started by having mental health
struggles myself and getting toa point where I realized I
needed additional help, and thenhaving such a good experience
with my first therapist.
That's so unusual too, I feellike yeah, and I think what
really helped me as being afirst gen Latina, being
(00:31):
surrounded by a lot of friendsand family that have blue collar
jobs, so having him as accessof okay, if you go to school,
make sure it's accredited bythis place.
Don't fall for the marketingadjacent equivalent no, it's
accredited by this place.
Don't fall for the marketingadjacent equivalent.
No, it's accredited or it's not.
I remember also one of mycoworkers who was pretty much a
(00:52):
work mom saying you're too smartfor this.
I see potential in you.
You said you want to go back toschool.
Do it Just go all in.
In that process, I also movedfrom where I used to live.
I originally from North Jerseyand then I moved to Southern
Delaware.
How were those experiences foryou?
It was basically like swampyass on a summer day because a
(01:17):
lot of internship places.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (01:19):
I need a working definition of
swampy.
Larissa Trelles she/they (01:21):
Yes just like uncomfortable, sticky.
You don't know how to navigateit.
I moved out on completely on myown by age 19.
I was parentified before that.
In that process I had moved.
I moved to Delaware November2020.
And I started calling.
I started emailing.
One thing that I noticed thatwas culture shock is just
(01:43):
emailing and contacting peopledown here and not having that
immediacy or response at all,versus being close to New York
where everything's just, yes, nokind of thing.
So the only place that itworked out was mobile outpatient
.
Mobile outpatient and you go totheir homes in the middle of
COVID.
Yeah, that was scary, but I hadtaken a to their homes in the
(02:05):
middle of COVID.
Yeah, that that was scary, butI had taken a lot of risks in
the past.
In retrospect, covid I'mexposing myself a lot and, for
those people that are listening,I am of tan skin.
There's just no denying that.
I am a Latina and I moved tosouthern Delaware, which,
historically, was on the wrongside of the civil war.
So I'm going into people'shouses and some people were kind
(02:29):
and others were not, and theonly good thing, well, two, you
are going to be able to meetyour hours and I'm like okay,
let's do this.
So I was able to figure out away where I would do my
internship and all my hourswould count because I was doing
therapeutic work.
But I would do my internshipand all my hours would count
because I was doing therapeuticwork, but I would be getting
paid at like $17 an hour versuszero.
(02:52):
Wow, you got lucky.
Yeah, and I think they werelike oh, and she's bilingual,
and blah, blah, blah.
So this rural area, like Iprovided services, sometimes
inside of a horse farm whichthere's a very interesting story
with that one because thecamper was really smelly and I
wasn't feeling comfortable.
But I tried to be very subtleand like let's, let's try and
(03:15):
walk around, and then I likeright, working in people's homes
there, what?
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (03:21):
and you saying that I there is,
this I did in home.
This might have been myinternship too, where we were
doing in-home family therapyalone, because, you know, let's
set interns alone in the fuckingfield yeah, yeah, and the
highest level of acuity with theleast amount of preparation
always, and they were so where Ilive, more rural kind of like
you're talking about, and theywere like, oh, let's meet
outside.
And they were cleaning theirboat and I was like, oh, oh, my
(03:44):
god, this is interesting.
Fuck, am I supposed to do withthis?
Larissa Trelles she/they (03:48):
like I went in a meth house that got
busted a couple weeks before andsafety, and that's what the
what I had envisioned for myselfand this exposure to community
mental health was, was the proofthat that environment was not
for me, for multiple reasons forsafety, for biases based on the
way that I present, the waythat I speak, the way that I
(04:10):
look, assumptions that I shouldbe able to handle being in a
camper in the middle of thesummer that not only stinks but
that has no AC, because I amfrom Mexico, I am not from Wait
did someone say that to you?
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (04:25):
Yes , oh, my fucking God.
Larissa Trelles she/they (04:26):
At that moment of those panning
into the camera, that justfucking happened and I was like
okay.
And I was like actually Ecuador, where I'm from.
And then I'm like, wait aminute, this person doesn't even
know how to read or write.
Why am I educating, why am Iexplaining myself?
And there's also constantdifficulties in specifically
with that family.
(04:47):
But I would notice what made itextremely obvious was there
were two children and one wasassigned to me and then the
other one was assigned tosomeone else who happened to be
a white woman.
She had no issues getting intouch with him, he was open and
blah, blah, blah, blah.
They were similar in multipleways versus obviously not me.
And I remember bringing that upto the, the internship place,
(05:12):
and I was like, and then it wasbeing minimized by the person
that had success and I was like,are we just going to?
Also, I wasn't as outspoken asI am now and I think that power
dynamic and being an intern andnot want to ruffle off any
feathers and it was just like Ilook a specific way and that's
going to cause certain issues.
So it's that that was a bigthing and I also recognize the
(05:36):
universe was looking out for mebecause I was able to make it
out safe, because I'm in themiddle of nowhere, no one's
going to hear you.
Exactly, I was the only one onthe road, so I was like if
aliens were to abduct me, no onewould find out, and that's
maybe the best case scenario,because you get abducted by the
cool ones.
But yeah, it was.
(05:57):
And if something happened?
And even just being femmepresenting there's just all
these intersections of identitythat marginalize you even more.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (06:09):
And that, for specific people,
dehumanize you too.
And I remember someone askingme going in the city, where
we're at, versus rural, and Iwas like I would rather go into
the city all day long.
And they're like why?
And I said because if I yell,everyone's going to turn around
and see if I'm psychotic or not.
No one's going to hear me, noone's going to know you're
missing.
Larissa Trelles she/they (06:25):
Right yeah.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (06:26):
And the safety thing.
And two I can only imagineright being in this area right,
because you're saying it's onthe opposite side of the Civil
War.
Right, and being a brown womanright, like you're a Latina and
working with these white folks.
I think too.
How do we also bring attentionto this around?
Also, safety concerns.
Larissa Trelles she/they (06:43):
Yeah, well, and that's the thing, even
when I brought up certainthings like it was dismissed by
one part of it and and it wasjust like then one of my, like
the director of the program,who's black, was like I'm sorry
that you went through that, andthat felt a little weird, first
of all, that she shouldn't beapologizing because she didn't
do anything directly to me, butshe was also in charge of me
(07:04):
being assigned to specificplaces and there was just and
the thing is, when I would bringup problems to them, I then got
in contact with, like otherpeople that were doing similar
positions and it was theseproblems all the time, also
perpetrated by like thediagnosis came from the state
and it was.
It was so contrasting when thepatient was white versus when
(07:26):
the patient was black.
Absolutely, you, you see all ofthese like defiance and
aggression and all of thesethings, and then and I remember
seeing that this is, this is adiagnosis that the state is
giving you, and we know andwe're told in school how
diagnosis can follow you for therest of your life I ended up in
a very messy situation.
(07:46):
Safety, we're going to throwthat one out the window.
We're going to send you a femmepresenting individual to work
with someone that has been courtordered to receive these
services as violently sexual,like there's.
There was like sexual violencehappening, and that's why I'm
going into your house.
You couldn't assign a malethese services as violently
sexual, like there's.
There was like sexual violencehappening and that's why I'm
going into your house.
You couldn't assign a male.
(08:07):
You can assign a male that I'malso five, two.
There's just.
There's just no way.
I gave that case my all, but Istarted picking up on certain
things I'm receiving textmessages and calls during the
weekend, which that definitelyallowed me to create healthier
boundaries.
But then the worker that wasassigned to the case was besties
with mom and I told my directorand I was this is bad.
(08:30):
And then I found out that theclient reoffended and that the
family kind of tried to cover itup because they happened to be
in a position of power, andthat's when I told the owner of
the company I was I cannot giveit my all, and I think this is a
moment early on in my careerthat I realized that working
(08:53):
with a sex offender, andspecifically a sex offender that
does not want to change andthat is surrounded by an
enabling support system is justnot the thing for me.
And she was saying no more, I'mgoing to send a letter to the
state.
We take so many of their cases.
They can't come and fight mebecause I'm saying that we are
releasing this case.
(09:14):
And that felt nice.
I do have to say that even inthe negativity, that did feel
really nice of being able tofigure out where I didn't feel
comfortable and having thatexperience early on in my
formation years allowing me tosubsequently do that once I was
out of school.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (09:32):
I think that's absolutely amazing
.
Right To A use your voice in aplace where and this was during
your internship right.
So use your voice as an internto be no, and then that person
be okay, you know what.
You're right.
There's so many places and somany people who we go to to
upper management and be like wecan't do this and they're like,
well, that sucks, I think it'syour own fault.
Like go back out.
Larissa Trelles she/they (09:52):
Yep, yep, because that's basically
what happened to me aftergraduation.
I was definitely in settingswhere it was like I'm telling
you that there's this populationthat I'm not going to work with
or that I'm trying to get awayfrom, and it's just like the not
being heard and you just haveto pay your dues, the
normalization that we have tosuffer, that we have to suffer
financially, that we have tosuffer emotionally and mentally
(10:16):
and even our physical securityat stake, and that's what you
just have to do.
Don't cry about it.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/ (10:22):
Don't cry, Don't show emotions.
That's not professional in ourfield.
What did you do after gradschool?
We're a family here.
Red flag during interviewprocess people.
Larissa Trelles she/they (10:32):
Yes, and that's the thing.
The person that interviewed mewas a director of the department
, very friendly, came across asvery genuine, so I felt really
good about my decision.
I start in November.
There are just all these thingsthat started coming up and I
was it got to a point where Ijust couldn't look away because
I was bothered, as well asnoticing that the person that
(10:55):
interviewed me that was really,really, really seemed really
approachable and really nicestarted becoming very passive,
aggressive and very and shewould look, she would look down
on me.
It's not too much right nowthat people clip or anything,
but I typically have very brightpurple hair I love it.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (11:15):
I used to have purple hair too.
Larissa Trelles she/they (11:15):
I'm like, yeah, purple hair people I
have piercings, I have eighttattoos and all these things and
all of that seemed to be okay.
But then there was thisexpectation that you had to
dress very corporate and I waslike I got to talk to you
because these things are alittle confusing, just a lot of
bullshit.
(11:36):
So I wore jeans, I wore jeansall the time and then I found
out that she was the director'sminion.
That always happens.
She lived up her asshole.
That's exactly that's what Ithink, because it was just too
much.
I was like, oh my God, thesetwo highly unlikable people.
In the span of six months,people start disappearing.
(11:58):
There was one person that Ibecame really close friends with
and I remember telling her mygrievances.
I was like I feel like I'mtreated differently, like I get
all these passive, aggressiveemails and whatnot.
And she was like oh, that'slike she would just hold space
for me, but didn't she alwayspushed me to be positive that
potentially, that wasn'thappening.
(12:19):
Plot twist, at the end she waslike yes, you are treated
differently.
I started picking up becausethey didn't know how close we
were, so she ended up hearingconversations and hearing things
and she's like you're 100%right, so if you want to leave,
you leave.
Six months in, they tell us thatwe have to go for a performance
review.
Sounds about right.
We go into this review per se.
(12:40):
It's a meeting, it's thedirector, and then this person
that's HR director positionalways looked at you like you
had shit all over you.
She would look at you up anddown.
I don't know what her deal was.
Then the conversation comes upwith reimbursement and the
hugest crock of shit that I haveever heard in my life that
because of COVID, they werereimbursing less.
(13:03):
They were reimbursing lessspecifically because I was an
associate.
So you are underestimating myintelligence.
I may look younger than I am,but I am not stupid.
So I was like wait a minute, soI take out my little notebook.
Actually, I saw that Aetnawe're getting reimbursed X
amount.
Highmark, which is the BlueCross, blue Shield in Delaware,
(13:25):
we used to be 125 something.
So I'm throwing these numbersand I'm just getting dismissed
and they're like so because ofthat, we have to make a change
in the contract.
There's two options.
Whether you stay salaried, youhad to see like 130 people a
month to keep your benefits, asis your insurance.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/h (13:44):
Damn , I was back too, and 130
clients a month is 32 and a halfclients a week.
Right, that's a lot.
Larissa Trelles she/they (13:52):
Yeah, I was fuming and I think that
was one of the biggest eventsthat radicalized me.
So then they come back and itwas like, oh well, just let us
know what decision.
And I was like I can't do thesalary, it just, it just does
not work Around.
The same time I started pickingup that actually I did an
experiment.
I was like I think that what Isay in supervision is getting
(14:16):
back to the director.
Let me, let me play, find out.
Yeah, I was like okay, so youthink you bitches think I'm
stupid.
I'm going to come here with mynotebook, I'm going to play your
game, I'm going to put somestuff out there and I'm going to
see if it comes back.
Didn't Long and behold, it did.
And I was like like fuck you.
I also noticed her demeanor,because she was affected too.
(14:38):
But she was like this, she wasmad and then she wasn't and I
was like I wonder what the fuckthey gave her.
So we are not fighting the samefight.
All these people got together.
Then they didn't.
I remember there was a momentthat I told one of the
clinicians that had a very longtime doing their not necessarily
working for them, mind you.
This all happened in the spanof a year of the place opening
(15:00):
at least the division, becausethey were connect, they're
connected to medical, but theyopened branch of mental health.
We get the new contract and thecontract basically it's
basically slavery, becausethey're giving me like 50 or 55
and I try to negotiate somethingbecause of me being fluent in
in Spanish.
(15:21):
That didn't pan out becauseobviously you don't care.
This is the part that reallyworried me.
There was a clause againstmoonlighting so I couldn't work
anywhere else.
I remember telling this olderclinician saying my ancestors
did not fight against theSpaniards for me to put up with
this shit.
When I tell you that I had thisfire that came from my ass all
(15:44):
the way up to my head because itfelt so unfair that I was like
no, and at that point I started.
I had already kind of met withsomeone and it was very up in
the air, but I was like I'm notstaying here Close to the end
and I get tested at theirmedical facility.
So I have your medical proofthat I have COVID, but you don't
(16:05):
give a shit because you don'tcare about me, which also to me
tells me you don't care aboutclients.
Correct.
But no, we're all aboutself-care and whatnot.
Okay, you're not.
You're about the bottom line inyour business and that's the
only thing.
But yeah, the same thing.
I'm struggling, trying to makeends meet because you fucked me
over and I could barely pay myrent.
(16:25):
But then I see, like thedirector and the owner of the
company and like they got theirbrand new ass cars, houses and
all that stuff and I was justlike this just doesn't sit right
with me.
I am sent a piece of paper thatI have to sign, some kind of
like disciplinary thing.
I don't like.
I'm in fucking kindergarten,mind you, I'm the youngest.
What is going on?
But meanwhile I'm interviewingwith places and then I'm picking
(16:49):
up on the pattern.
This is very exploitive andpredatory.
You want to take such a bigchunk of my pay and whatnot and
I was like it was just notworking.
And then I was able to connectwith someone to be my supervisor
.
But I wasn't stupid.
They asked me where I was gonnago when I left and I wasn't
gonna tell them becausesomething in my gut told me not
(17:10):
to.
Clearly I couldn't trust youbecause in six months you just
flipped the script and all of asudden it's a whole story and
you're changing the rules andnot the ones that I initially
agreed upon.
So that happens and then I givemy two weeks, I leave and with
that it was like, well, you know, we can't really tell clients
where you're going and all ofthat.
(17:31):
It's all this bullshit thatyou're trying to create a
barrier.
So I was very open and I alsotold some of the clinicians that
and other like medicalproviders that worked, that in
the state of Delaware, as it isthe case in multiple states, the
clients and patients have theability to choose care, right,
self determination, people Also.
(17:54):
Do you really care about peopleBecause you are becoming a huge
barrier in their continuationof care?
So I was like I'm leaving, thisis my phone number.
I'm like I don't know what theins and outs.
You could always Google me,like there's always that option.
I would say about 95% of myclient list followed me.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (18:14):
Did you have a client ever?
When you said you were leaving,I know, I was like I can't tell
you where I was leaving and Ihad a client in session pull out
her phone and be like is thisyour website, your new website?
And I was like but bitch, putyour fucking phone down.
Yes, leave me alone, not inthis room, I might be
microphoned.
Larissa Trelles she/the (18:29):
Exactly .
And that's the thing, too, ofnot knowing.
And I remember in the beginningI was like look, I don't know
what details I can share justyet, but know that you are in
control and you can choose whereyou seek care.
There's Google.
So I left.
And then people that found meor that we contact they're like
I'm getting calls.
(18:50):
So what happened is they werereally trying to figure out how
is it that I got credentialed?
I found out through multipleavenues and also her little
minion found out throughmultiple avenues.
And also her little minion cameout of her asshole and was like
oh, are you sure you're goingto be able to see people?
And I was just so thrown off byit.
I tell you they should bethankful that it was Larissa
(19:10):
from back then and not Larissafrom right now, because I would
be like bitch, what is yourproblem?
I will no longer be connectedto this institution or this
organization.
What I do for it is my fuckingbusiness and get out of my face.
I have left since then.
I have left even the otherplace.
Once I was able to be fullylicensed, I had at least 10
(19:34):
people tell me that they werecalling them and saying, like
just make sure that you, likeyour insurance, is going to be
able to accept it or that she'sactually credentialed all of
these variations of these things, which, again, very unethical.
You know how I took fuckingprofessional.
Exactly remember how I told youthat you did billing and
credentialing, yes, well, notonly that, but how I told you
(19:56):
that people were falling off inthat first year.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/ (20:00):
eight people left Jesus.
That's a big red fucking flag.
Larissa Trelles she/they (20:04):
Eight people left and then I found out
that people disappeared and weweren't able to talk to them
because they use scare tactics.
There was like a no contact orelse they had to pay money.
Like it was just all this andI'm like that's how you move.
I don't want to be associatedwith a place like that at all.
(20:24):
And I had a client I don't care, they called me and if you
didn't take my insurance, I'llsell feet pics.
I don't care, my connectionwith you is more important than
anything else.
It just felt really.
It felt really gross and it'sare fucking wild, yeah, and like
the space that I am now thatI've rent, it's basically other
(20:46):
clinicians that have left verytoxic workplaces and it's being
just tired, being fed up withbeing taken advantage of.
And you know, what I thinkhappened is that the people that
left before me were fullylicensed, so there were.
They legit thought that I wasgoing to stay and I was going to
be their bitch because I was anassociate.
Yep, I think that's very commontoo, because they're like this
(21:08):
is a fantastic option you'regonna have to put up and jump
through all the hoops that wepresent for you because you're
not fully licensed and clearly,with even like trying to plant
the seed of doubt within thepeople that followed me, it was
clear that they were panicking.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/he (21:24):
And I think too in this field, is
when because you don't ever knowwho's buddy buddy with people,
so you also don't know, and Iknow.
For me, with C-Stuff, I thinkit's the ADHD superpower of
looking at patterns, patternrecognition I can tell you who
likes who.
Based off my local facebookgroup, based off the referrals
and people die when I'm like, oh, look here, and they're like
holy fuck.
I'm like it's right in front ofyour face, look at it.
(21:45):
Who do?
I trust saying this to see ifother people are seeing this.
And if I tell this person, isit going to get back to
management, I mean there's afriend.
Larissa Trelles she/they (21:52):
There are two friends that I made
there that I'm still very closewith and I'm thankful because,
especially when shit went south,it became very clear and I even
had one of them apologize andshe was like I wasn't aware of
the privilege that I had and howI was treated differently than
you were, and I'm so sorry thatI was ever selfish and that I
didn't and that I asked you tostay, but you leaving actually
(22:15):
gave me courage to leave andstart my own thing and she's
like and the fact that you are Ithink it's maybe 10 or 15 years
younger and she was like yougave me.
You were able to believe inyourself, even without the
security of being fully licensedand all of these things.
So if you were able to do it, Iknew that I had what it takes
to and and that was really,really validating.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/h (22:36):
What advice would you give a new
therapist or somebody in thatsituation who's in this right
now?
Larissa Trelles she/they (22:42):
Just don't put up with the bullshit.
No, and especially as anassociate, there's so much of a
power dynamic in that andfeeling like, yes, you don't
want to ruffle feathers or theytell you that these are how
things are done.
And just because it's commonpractice, it doesn't mean that
it's right and we look at itsocial work, counseling, just in
(23:04):
general, and reach out, putyourself out there and, I think,
listening to your gut, thosethings when you start feeling
uncomfortable, as it happenswith any job, when you're
dreading to go back, when yourstomach's really tight, your
body's tense, there's a exactlyand there's a lot of ancestral
(23:26):
wisdom that lives within us thatthese spaces that we are we've
been told that are safe, thatwe've been told that.
Also, the gaslighting that Iendured, even from people around
, because I don't want to saythat I was the only BIPOC, but I
was the only Latina and Iremember even saying something.
(23:47):
Now I know my mother-in-law isfucking crazy and fucking racist
, so she was like no, it's notbecause of that and it's like
bitch, you would never gothrough that.
That's why, and being soremoved from my circle and being
exposed to so much diversitywhere it's not abnormal, it's
just I'm, I'm just anotherLatina the fact that if you're
(24:08):
being told that you have todress different, that you have
to remove piercings, that youhave to cover your tattoos, our
clients thrive on us showing upauthentically.
I have experienced that as aclient myself when I moved to
Delaware.
I remember finding thistherapist First of all, how hard
it is to find someone and Iremember I saw her.
(24:31):
She was white but covered inpiercings and covered in tattoos
and I was like that's a personthat is not afraid to show up as
themselves.
I can tell her anything aboutmy life and she's not going to
judge me.
Yeah, Like, how are we asclinicians supposed to tell
clients to stand up forthemselves, to set boundaries,
(24:52):
to teach other people how totreat them and to be authentic
if we're being to wash ourselvesout, to water ourselves down,
to make ourselves more palatable?
And, specifically for my BIPOCpeople, there's a lot of this
field.
I talk about the DSM even in myintro.
I'm like look me and that bookhave a very complicated
(25:14):
relationship because until the1970s, it said, homosexuality
was, was a mental healthdiagnosis, and not only that,
but it was pathologizing,something that is very natural
and I said we're going to takewhat serves us, since we leave
the rest.
We need it for insurance andthat's all good.
For other folks, diagnosis canbe very life-affirming, but that
(25:35):
book was developed by cis hetmiddle-aged upper class white
men and anything that dares toexist out of that very narrow
box is pathologized.
And they tell us don't showyour expressions or don't
certain things.
I tell them we can cursebecause I'll have people
apologize and I'm like no, no,let's fucking go.
(25:57):
Yeah, I was like I said, somepeople sometimes just fucking
suck and when you have toexplain things, regular bland
language is not enough toencapsulate everything that
you're trying to say.
And also, I tell them I don'ttake myself too seriously.
I don't assume that I'm theexpert.
I saw your picture back when Iwas in psychology today and I
(26:18):
loved it.
You were just so vibrant.
And I'm also very open about mebeing NeuroSpicy, my queerness,
my connection to my indigenousroots and how I center my work
around decolonizing, and thatthat's not only limited to those
of us that come from indigenouscommunities, that there's a lot
(26:39):
of.
There's this wonderful doctorthat he is basically who I can
see myself be and he is a queertherapist, but that has a
doctorate in human sexuality,which is what I'm going to
school for right now, and he ishe's half indigenous and half
European, and he talks about howwe can decolonize and even
(27:00):
indigenize, but also de-settle,and how a lot of us, regardless
of where we stand in our socialmobility, can contribute to the
settler narrative.
And it's that just.
It doesn't feel right.
If your body starts telling youthat it's unsafe, then find
other options.
You have to walk the walk,especially if we're telling our
clients that we're rooting forthem and that we want them to
(27:23):
live full and authentic livesand not do that for ourselves.
Kayla Schubert Wirth she/her (27:27):
I want to give a homework
assignment to everyone.
Listening is go on PsychologyToday and just look at pictures
and see if you would see any ofthose therapists, because I know
damn well, I try to go on thereand I was no, no, no, no, no.
You all look the fucking same.
No one wants to see that.
Larissa Trelles she/they (27:45):
No and one thing that I'm really proud
of I looked up people in 2020and then I had to look people up
in 2024.
And I was able to find aCaribbean therapist that somehow
lived for a certain amount ofmonths in Ecuador so knows about
(28:06):
the food and lived in Ecuadorin the city where my parents are
from, and I lived a portion ofmy life, so not feeling like I
have to translate who I am hasbeen incredibly meaningful, and
we ended up having suchcollective experiences about
stuff that I couldn't evenimagine and it's been really
life affirming and life saving,especially as we navigate these
(28:28):
very difficult times of someonethat it's like I know.
You don't have to explainyourself, you don't have to
justify that you think or thatyou're acting that way, and
that's what the experienceshould be for anybody really
happy to be here.
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