June 29, 2025 • 55 mins
Have you ever felt exhausted trying to live up to all of God's standards on your own strength? There's a profound freedom waiting when we discover the true power of the gospel.
In this raw, unfiltered conversation from the front seat of a work truck, we unpack a revolutionary truth from Romans 8 that changes everything: "Every righteous requirement of the law can be fulfilled through the anointed one living his life in us." This isn't just theological theory—it's practical liberation that transforms how we handle daily challenges from work stress to family leadership.
We share personal stories about learning to respond rather than react, catching ourselves in moments of negativity, and discovering what true biblical leadership looks like. For men especially, we explore how cultural expectations of independence clash with God's design for interdependence and spiritual vulnerability. There's something powerful that happens when we give trusted brothers permission to "call us on our BS" and speak truth into our blind spots.
The conversation goes deep into what authentic brotherhood looks like—not just surface-level friendship, but the kind where difficult conversations happen, wounds sometimes occur, and healing follows. We talk candidly about times we've hurt each other, apologized, and grown stronger through the process. In a world where men often struggle in isolation, this kind of brotherhood becomes essential for spiritual growth.
Whether you're wrestling with negative thought patterns, struggling to lead your family well, or simply wanting deeper connections with other believers, this episode offers practical wisdom for surrendering control to the Holy Spirit and allowing Christ to live through you. Join us in discovering what it means to truly "die a little more" to ourselves so Christ can live more fully through us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wait.
So instead of me having tofulfill the law, if I just of.
The gospel is so good that it'slike he is the one who's going
(00:26):
to live out the righteous lifein us, and then I love this and
now we're free to live.
It's almost like, bro, just golive Yo here, we go.
(00:47):
Hey, hey, what's up, brother?
Good morning, good morningeveryone.
Welcome to the Die A LittleMore podcast.
I'm glad to be here and sittingin the truck early morning
coffee.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Ready Coffee.
Ready to go.
Ready to go Ready to go.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
My daughter.
I was just talking to her onthe phone.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
She's like where do you do?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
the podcast.
I was like in a Starbucksparking lot In the work truck In
the work truck.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hey, actually Chevy did a solid dude.
This thing is actually prettyairtight.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Pretty surprising.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We don't have a million-dollar studio, we have a
truck that's not even ours.
Well, you know just borrowingit.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
But yeah, you're right.
I have found that it is like acar is a pretty amazing sound
studio, because it edits out somuch sound and it's quiet,
unless you have a crazy homelessperson knocking on your window.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, you just got to be careful where you're parking
.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, or somebody's in front of you and they're like
parking and they're a badparker and you're just like
watching them and you just gettotally distracted because
you're pretty sure they're goingto hit that car over there are
the ones that walk by that justrandomly decide they're going to
stare at you and look at youweird, because, like they're,
what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
yeah, I've seen that a couple times.
I'm like I can't look at thosepeople.
Do not make eye contact becausethey're like you're weird.
What are you doing in that carwith microphones and a dude?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Don't ask any questions.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
We're like you don't even know anything about it,
just keep walking, oh man.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Got to get it all out of the system.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, we got to shake it free.
It's like doing that shake yourarms out and your legs out
before you work out yeah, we'rein a really good mood today.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
We've got a lot of good stuff going on and we've
got the podcast we're gonna doright now.
Yep, we've got work today,which will be great oh yeah and
then we've got a christian metalconcert to go to this evening.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like the best day ever.
It's like the best day ever.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's like the best day ever, except for teenagers
all over again.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean the Lord says like ifyou're going to enter the
kingdom, you got to do it like achild, right, right?
So, what's up?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Like a child, give me my or childish.
No, like a child.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Childish, I tried that one.
It doesn't work the same.
Lots of complaining and crying.
Are we there yet?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She's never ended up, good, are we?
There yet.
God.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Jeez, this is taking forever.
I don't like these vegetables.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I know I'm supposed to eat this but it doesn't taste
good.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It has been a minute.
Oh man, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I don't know if you want to talk about this,
but, like yesterday, you weretalking about work and you
brought up work today and it wascool what you said, because you
were like we got work and it'sgoing to be good.
Like I heard you say that andit reminded me of the
conversation we were havingyesterday about just staying
positive with work and oh, yeah,yeah, it's um I I think we
always are bent slightly me moreso than others just just on the
(03:59):
negative train.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, and it's.
Things are happening.
You're immediately your firstthought is something negative,
or you have some kind ofbackhanded comment or something
under your breath, or youcomplain and get upset and get
angry and allow yourself to bemoved to this place that you
know.
It's like you, I'm realizing,it's like hey, like you have
control of that, you can decidehow you're going to react to
(04:24):
that.
Right, and just lately the lordhas just been working on me and
I'm trying to see things alittle bit differently and just
chill out and relax and realizethat not everything is like a
life and death situation right,yeah how to have more grace in
situations, you know, wherethings don't go the way I
expected them.
(04:48):
You know, and yesterday we weretalking a little bit about that
and just me learning how toreact differently and how that
is changing the way that I amfor that moment and for the rest
of the day as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah, like one moment of like jumping off the
cliff of anger or whatever likecan really set like the whole
day off.
You know, and like almost everyother, you know relationship,
every other connection we havewith people, yeah, Because
usually it's without theparachute.
Right, we splat at the bottom.
(05:18):
Everybody's coming with us, bythe way, we're going to take
everybody down.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's a wily coyote dude.
No parachute Full on Right overthe side of the cliff.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, and I think I said to you I mean, I
struggle with the same thing.
I can be.
It's like my bent is towardsnegativity and, man, I really
(05:48):
have to like think about it andwork on it, um, just because I
yeah, that's like it's my bent,it's my nature, but, um, we were
saying yesterday, like, butit's not like the way we're
supposed to think.
You know.
So, even if that is the way Iam, you know, um, you know we're
supposed to be having arenewing of the mind or we're
supposed to be like walking inthe kingdom, right, and and the
(06:09):
kingdom.
When Jesus talks about thekingdom, it's, it's not about,
it's not like that, it's like,uh, and it's something that
we've said before on the podcastit's about like believing the
words that the Lord has said.
You know like, I have goodplans for you, you know, um, and
(06:31):
in those moments, where itdoesn't look good, we're
supposed to still hang on tothose um promises.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's really, that's really hard.
That's been a really hardlesson for me, cause it's it is
my default.
You know, a lot of it isenvironment.
I think I said yesterday I needto stop being lazy in my
emotions and really just takecontrol and take charge and
(06:58):
realize that, hey, I'm the onethat's in charge of these and I
can determine how I'm going toreact to a situation.
And you know, and, and I thinkreading, reading the word and
allowing the Lord to work on youis a big factor in that, just
refining, you know mypersonality and and how I, how I
interact with people and reactwith everything.
(07:19):
So it's been, it's been sort ofcool yeah so verb is just
changing a little bit.
When I'm talking, I notice I'mthinking a little bit
differently and respondingdifferently.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool man, I see it in you.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's cool.
I was thinking like I've heardpeople say like when something
happens, you can't just go tolike the worst version of
yourself, right, but that's ourdefault, you know because, but
(07:49):
that's our default, you know.
And it's like maybe like whenwe were younger or before we
were saved.
It's like something bad happensand you just swing at some dude
, right, like that's just yourthing, and now that we're older
and like a little bit more,we've grown a little bit more,
it's like we don't do thatanymore, but this is something
that we always talk about.
It's like the Lord continues tolike peel the onion with us.
You know, it's like I used topunch a dude and now I don't
anymore, so like I'm way better.
But the Lord's like, hmm, likeyou know, like you are, you are,
(08:11):
but like it's now it's goneinto.
Instead of like physical things, it's, it's like spiritual, um
ways of thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know, it's your emotions that he's dealing with
and I think I think I said toyou yesterday it's your emotions
, yeah, that he's dealing with,and I think I think I said to
you yesterday it's it's, it islearned behavior.
I mean not not to use that as aget out of jail free card to
absolve herself from any kind ofresponsibility from ourselves,
but I mean that's how society isand I think that's where the
laziness comes in, where it'sjust really easy to be like,
well, that's what everybody elseis doing yeah right, yeah, I
(08:41):
mean, everybody else is actingthat way.
This is how everyone I knowreacts to these situations and
stuff, and so you just flip onthe lazy switch and you're like,
okay, well, that's just the wayit's going to be, because it's
really easy for me just to dosomething without thinking about
it right, right yeah but if Iwant to be in control of, like
my reactions and be responsibleand mature, you know, and then I
(09:04):
need to take a second and Ineed to look how I should
respond to a situation.
I think we've even talked aboutthat a few times in some of the
episodes too, where it's likeit's it's learning to respond
and not react in situations yeahyeah, yeah, my counselor says
that a lot, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
He's like um, you know, sometimes we're not like
emotionally mature enough tolike respond well, you know.
So we react right.
And it's funny I mean, I thinkI'm growing in that too and it's
crazy because the react comesout immediately, without even
(09:40):
thinking, you know, and I canthink of a situation just this
last week where I said somethingand I was like, oh, shoot, like
it came out too fast, and thenI was like, wait, stop, that's
not what I meant.
Um, this is what I mean, youknow, or this is how I feel you
know.
Um, so being able to recognizeit is huge.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, that's good too , though I mean, cause it's a
lot of the times it just happensand we're so caught up in the
moment, emotionally or whateverit we don't even ever stop to
catch ourselves.
So I mean, if you're dealingwith somebody on a regular basis
that sees you react on an onthe norm right yeah then seeing
you catch yourself, oh man,shoot.
(10:18):
I'm so sorry.
That's not what I meant.
That's not my intention.
Here's what I really meant tosay yeah, this is how I really
feel about this situation.
I mean, that actually is shouldbe good news to them too.
Yeah, Because they're like ohwow, you caught that Right.
Right, Instead of just doublingdown and just when you know,
then I would have what I wasgoing to have as a reaction,
Right, you went ahead and justapologized and were like like
(10:41):
that's not what I meant yeah,yeah yeah, and I think that that
does go a long way because thethe other person sees like, hey,
you're not doing the thing thatyou always do right you know
and they can see that the lord'sworking in you right
Speaker 1 (10:54):
yeah, and that goes a long way.
Yeah, you know, instead of justbulldozing like we always do,
you know, yeah, I was sayingyesterday, when we were talking
about this too, um, it remindsme that you know the verse in
romans.
It says do not conform anylonger to the pattern of this
world.
And I was saying to you, likethe pattern of this world is
like react, you know, and like,well, you said this, so I'm
(11:18):
gonna say this back becausethat's what we do and that is a
pattern of this world, right,but it's not the kingdom, like
it's not how Jesus would lovesomebody, but it is how the
world does it.
And so if I'm like, well, sorry, this is just the way I am, and
I this is the way everybodydoes it.
What did you say?
You said if I, if you're sayingto yourself this is the way
(11:40):
everybody does it, it's like ared flag you know, yeah, yeah,
yeah, you're already in troubleright because you know that's
the way the masses are doing it,right, right yeah, which is not
the way we're supposed to bedoing it, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
that's good stuff.
That's really.
I think it's really important.
I mean, it's making theselittle changes and these little
alterations.
I am, you know, as long aswe've been doing the podcast now
, which hasn't been too long.
But you know, in our otherconversations we have on the
side.
It's sort of like now when wetalk about it later.
You know, I can, I can stepback and take a look at it and
(12:21):
sort of be like, wow, you know,that's like we have, have, we
have.
We actually have grown quite abit to where we're catching
things and trying to change.
You know, it's not just talkingabout them because we're we're
in the process.
You can actually see now there'ssome fruit yeah from that I
know right where you've madesome progress in that.
So it's pretty, it's prettycool right, like seriously.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I mean I'm not joking , but it's like yeah, yay yay
for us.
I mean, it's like I think we'reboth growing, you know, and
that's like, yeah, it is amazingand yeah and it's okay to
celebrate.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I mean exactly, exactly totally you know there's
, there's, yeah, there's so manythings that get you down in
life and so many things that we,you know there's problems
everywhere right now.
So it's like celebrate thelittle victories, you know,
while you can, totally you know,as's problems everywhere right
now.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So it's like celebrate the little victories
you know while you can, totallyyou know, as an encouragement
yeah, right, and it's likereally, it's like thank you,
lord, that like you've opened upmy eyes to this thing and that
you've empowered me to startchanging.
Yeah, you know, and I'm notlike I used to be yeah, yeah
yeah, huge, yeah, so what you'vegot today well, actually it's
cool.
I was reading this this morningin Romans and it kind of talks
(13:27):
about what we're talking about.
I don't know where to start,but like At the beginning, at
the beginning, all right, well,I'll read for just a little bit
and then I'll jump into thething that I was going to, that
I wanted to talk about.
So this is in Romans, you know,at the end of Romans 7, it says
(13:51):
I give all my thanks to God,for his mighty power has finally
provided a way out through ourLord Jesus, the anointed one.
So if left to myself, the fleshis aligned with the law of sin.
So if left to myself, the fleshis aligned with the law of sin.
And now my renewed mind.
And now, oh sorry, but now myrenewed mind is fixed on and
(14:12):
submitted to God's righteousness.
And that caught my eye becauseI've been focused on, like, the
renewing of the mind.
I was like, oh, it says itright there.
And then yeah, and then so keepgoing, yeah, and then so keep
going.
Verse chapter eight says so.
Now the case is closed.
There remains no accusing voiceof condemnation against those
who are joined in life unionwith Jesus, the anointed one For
(14:36):
the law.
In quotation marks of thespirit of life flowing through
the anointing.
The anointing of Jesus hasliberated us from the law of sin
and death.
And I was like, oh, that's cool.
It's like there's a new law.
You know, there was like thelaw of sin and death and now
there's a new law of beingliberated through Jesus.
(14:56):
Okay, okay, this is the coolpart.
I mean all of it's cool, butthis was the part that got me
(15:26):
this morning.
So now every righteousrequirement of the law can be
fulfilled through the anointedone living his life in us.
And I was like, wait, soinstead of me having to fulfill
the law, if I just releasemyself to the Lord, to the
(15:49):
control of the Holy Spirit?
It says every righteousrequirement of the law can be
fulfilled through the anointedone, through Jesus living his
life in us.
And I was like, so it's noteven about me having to do
anything Like, literally, theGod, the new, the good news of
the gospel is so good that it'slike he is the one right, he is
(16:14):
the one who's going to live outthe righteous life in us.
And then I love this too.
And now we're free to live.
It's almost, bro, just go live,because the, the holy anointed
one, is going to live outrighteousness in us.
So it says now we are free tolive not according to our flesh
but by the dynamic power of theholy spirit.
(16:36):
And I was just like it kind ofbrings me relief when I read
that verse, because I justreally like that it says so now
every righteous requirement ofthe law can be fulfilled through
the anointed one living hislife in us.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So I'm going to double down on that.
John, chapter 15, verses four.
So you must remain in lifeunion with me, for I remain in
life union with you, for as abranch severed from the vine
will not bear fruit, so yourlife will be fruitless unless
you live your life intimatelyjoined to mine, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So good, well, apart from me, you can do nothing.
I mean, we can keep going andkeep going.
But it's like you know.
Those two verses right there,dude, are more than enough to
know.
It's like it is christ in me,the hope of glory yeah, yeah,
yeah the holy spirit resided inus.
Same power that raised christjesus from the dead resides in
(17:35):
our mortal body, right?
So it's like that.
That is the empowerment, right?
Because what does jesus saylater in in?
I can't remember if it's john17 or it's between 15 and 17, or
he's like like I am in thefather and he is in me, right,
as I am in you and you are in meright it's, it's, it's almost
(17:58):
like it's, it's not, not, notthe trinity thing, don't get me
wrong.
I don't want to have the heresy.
Please get my phone number andtrack me down but it's it.
There's this, there's thisunion that's supposed to happen
between all of us, right, right,like he, he, they have the
father, the son, the holy spirit, right, but now it's like
they're wanting to include uswithin that too, in that cycle,
(18:21):
right, right, where it's all ofus, in all of us.
Right, we're supposed to beoperating in unison, together.
Yeah, right, yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, what I was seeing in this verse is like
it's super encouraging becauseit's like it sounds like what
it's saying is, if we givecontrol to the Holy Spirit,
he'll live the life that hewants through us.
Basically, I guess the way Isee that is like okay, lord,
(18:55):
what do you want to do today?
Right, I just like.
I surrendered myself in lettinghim lead, and the cool thing is
it says that he fulfills all ofour righteous requirements that
way, by letting him lead.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah Well why?
Because they said that Jesussays when I go away there'll
come another right.
He's the helper.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, we can't fulfill.
The Bible says multiple timeswe can't, we couldn't.
There's nothing we could do tofulfill the law.
Dude.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Right.
Yeah, nothing yeah.
Apart from Christ and apart fromthe holy spirit do there's
nothing that we can do tofulfill the law.
You know it's funny.
I know I saw this too thismorning and I read it already.
But it's sort of crazy becauseit says, uh, for god achieved so
through jesus what the law wasunable to accomplish.
(19:47):
So I was like, oh, the lawwasn't good enough.
But then it says because thelaw was limited by me.
Basically it says the law waslimited because of the weakness
of humans.
So the law is perfect, but theproblem with it was us.
We ruined it, we tanked it, youknow?
(20:11):
Yeah, but he fulfilled itthrough his son.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So cool.
Well, it just shows that wedon't have the power to do
things in our own strength.
Right, I mean we'redisillusioned at best.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Right Like oh, I got this.
No, you don't Right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Not even close.
Not even close yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, you know, not even close.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
I mean obviously some thingsit's like we've learned how to
do and they're simple, simpletasks, and I'm talking like
keeping it in context of whatwe're talking about here is like
yeah, when it talks about ournature and our life, living our
life and living for the lord,being able to change or follow,
you know the instructions thathe lays out before us.
You know, it's almost as likeyou know that the thing
(20:56):
everybody says it's like well,I'm a good person.
Yeah, I'm a good person, right,like well, are you?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
yeah, it really depends on what your, uh, what
your grade is.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Right, well, right well, I'm just saying, though,
it's like our, our abilitybecause I mean that you're a
good person to know it's thatyou're in control of yourself
and being able to control yourmind right will your emotions
and all of that right and it'slike that's just not going to
happen right, when you usuallylike a person is saying that too
, like right after they gotarrested.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They're like whoa bro , you're taking me to like I'm a
good person, I'm a good person,I'm a good person.
You don't know me, I'm a goodperson, which is a joke, but
it's kind of like that'sgenerally when I want to pop
that one out, and when I'm agood person is like right after
I just did something like it'skind of making me look like I'm
(21:47):
not a good person.
Yeah, no, but that's funny.
But yeah, there's a beautythough of like realizing, though
, like I don't know, you knowbeauty in the dependence part.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, upon the lord right, exactly, exactly yeah,
where it's like, it's not.
I think, as guys dude, this issomething that's harder for us,
but it's not.
It's not us showing weakness,right?
I mean I, I I've got to thinkof, like you know, let's get as
(22:23):
manly as we can here, like army,rangers, navy seals, people
like that, right, it's you know,swat team, something like that
that requires men to worktogether.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, and so we were so fiercely independent,
because that's the way societylike rears us as we're growing
up, right.
But to be able to put your ownfeelings and thoughts aside and
to be able to learn how to trusta teammate, yeah right with
(22:58):
your life, ultimately, you knowI've got to trust you.
I've got to follow youliterally.
Sometimes I got to followbehind you wherever we're going
and I got to trust that you'releading me in the right
direction yeah right having mybest and my protection always in
your mind.
Yeah.
Right and then release that.
But the guy behind you isthinking the same thing.
(23:18):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that's a goodpicture for us, even within the
church context, of the churchand it's like what are we doing?
It's like all of us are runningaround most places, dude, and
most churches, all independentof each other.
(23:39):
There's, there's no community.
I know this is something that'sbeen on our heart for for a
while.
Dude is trying to even thispodcast was to develop a
community, yeah, forspecifically men.
You know the things that we talkabout on this podcast, or it
can be for anyone, but it'sspecifically geared towards,
towards men, right?
Yeah and it's like that was theaim of our heart was to create
something, to start building acommunity and see where god was
(24:00):
going to take it yeah becausenobody's talking about these
things right nobody's talkingabout us trusting each other.
Nobody's talking about ustrusting him changing our lives,
changing our hearts, you know,being better for our families.
Like nobody's really digginginto these things and talking
about them from a Christianperspective.
Yeah.
Right, there's a lot ofself-help, there's a lot of like
you can do it and all of that,but that's none of that.
(24:22):
Apart from Christ, it's nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And you may have some traction and you may have some
positive things happen.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But for it to last, you can't.
There's no way to sustain it.
Yeah, yeah, and I think we wantto bring in like the jesus
aspect of it too.
Right, like there's all.
There are good podcasts thathelp us to develop, as, like I
don't know, you know businesspeople and you know like
self-help stuff, but like, butultimately we know we're like
all that stuff fails at somepoint.
And there, yeah, we want to beable to talk about that part
(24:56):
past that where there is havingto depend on the Lord and even,
yeah, needing to depend onbrothers you know, who are like
bro.
I got to tell you like this,because this is what's going on
and I need help and I need youto stand with me, you know, in
the fire here, and pray onbehalf of me and my family, or
whatever you know, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(25:17):
Yeah, and I think it's like Idon't know, maybe everybody in
every generation says this, butit feels like desperate times
for men to come into more health.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You know, it's like we're needed more than ever well
, I mean you can just take oneone look at what's going on in
the news.
You know not to get too far offthe subject, but I mean you've
got the encouragement for men toplay women's sports, and you
know, and for men to becomewomen, and you know, and for
women to leave their homesinstead of men, and yeah, things
(25:53):
like that.
And it's like there's aspecific pattern and way that
that god set it up, where we'rea husband and a wife working
unison together.
You know what I mean, but thehusband ultimately leads yeah
that's the position that hecreated for him yeah you know,
and I, part of me thinks thatbecause men have resigned from
that leadership, the women havetaken that up and a lot of the
(26:16):
times it has gotten distortedright from what it should be or
twisted.
But I think that's why a lot of?
Times you see women taking theforefront in things because the
guys aren't willing to rise upand do that.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, oh man, this is a tree I don't know, aren't
willing to rise up and do that.
Yeah, oh man, this is a tree.
I don't know if I want to barkup, but I've thought about this
a lot and I think that, um, yeah, I think men are under attack
because the enemy wants to, likedecompose the structure right,
(26:51):
and I think it's been for awhile, and I even think it
started like a long, like quitea while ago with like, oh man,
uh, like with like doors alreadybeen kicked.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, I might as well just run through it.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
With, like, like, and I think that this is a satanic,
demonic attack of the structure, of the way it's supposed to be
.
But like with like, um, women'slike, uh, liberation, like
women's right stuff, like likegetting out of control and kind
of being led by like people whoare like you know, I don't know
very worldly.
It's like the structure hasgotten corroded and like men are
(27:31):
now like pushed down, or menhave reside, or like bowed out.
You know, um, and also, I mean,I heard somebody so in Genesis,
where after Adam and Eve sinned, you know, I heard somebody
interpret this one time as likeum, adam had to then go to work,
(27:51):
you know, and Eve will havepain in her childbirth, and and
then there's that line that says, and her desire would be for
her husband, like, or somethinglike that, but I I've heard it
said that the translation is herdesire would be for her
husband's position of leadership, like she would want to rule
over him, like it was like itwas part of the twist, part of
(28:12):
it's part of the fall.
That's interesting, yeah, and Ithink in our society, I think
men have been downplayed as like, oh, men are big dopes and
fools and they don't really knowhow to.
You know, even on TV, right, thedad is always dumb, right, it's
like there's, I mean, dude, themodel is this there's always
(28:37):
some beautiful lady who's gotall of her stuff together and
then some ding-dong dad, right,that's the model, like that we
all see, even that's likedemonic, it's like that's saying
like the dad isn't important,you know, right, and it's just's
(28:58):
all of it is like that slightof hands, demonic, like taste,
you know like, of putting mendown.
And and I think what you and meare like really wanting to do
is, is and just is to say, likewe recognize that and let's,
let's try to like put this backin order, like, you know like,
because if the model is thefather, christ, uh, you know
like, and then christ, right, so, like we, we are, we are like
(29:21):
the head of the household we'resupposed to be like like, you
know what I mean the image ofgod to our family, um, and if
we're not, then the whole thingis out of order, right?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You talk to one wife that has a husband that's
leading the home, that's goingto church, leading the family,
right working, providing anddoing all the things right
you're supposed to do.
You talk to that wife and askher if she's mad and feels like
he's suppressing her Right,right, if he's like, if she
(30:07):
feels demeaned because she knowsthat she should be in charge,
or whatever the case is.
Whatever the rhetoric is duderight.
Like she will look at you andhave a list of things to say.
Right, and I've been remindedof this recently.
This is why I love likeFather's Day and you know other
days like that, because it's achance.
You know it's like Mother's Dayor anything like that.
(30:29):
You get a chance to say a lotof things that you wish you
would have said all year, rightyeah and it's like it's that
that kind of day, right.
So it's like you just, you justknow that it's like, hey, I'm
gonna put my thoughts down in my, my heart down and in a card or
something like that, right, butit's like you know my wife is
really good at doing this whereshe'll send me these things on
(30:50):
like, like instagram or facebookor you know.
Father's day I'll get a cardthat says says it all, but it's
like.
It's like thank you for leadingour home, thank you for praying
for our family yeah thank youfor providing for us, for
leading our children, for, forpouring into your children, you
(31:12):
know, because you can see thatthey all love the lord right.
And it goes down this list ofthings, dude, and it's like and
it always brings tears to myeyes, and because it's like we
don't we often, as men, we don'tthink about that, we just get
stuck in work mode and we justlead, lead, lead, lead, lead
yeah and we don't often lookback to see the fruit yeah of
what we're leaving as a legacy,because we're so caught up with
(31:36):
everything that's going on inlife and I think these times
offer us a unique ability tolook back, and it's like you can
talk to those wives that havemen or husbands that are leading
like that.
They don't want their spot.
Yeah, right Because they knowthat they're operating in the
fullness of what they'resupposed to operate, and so
(31:59):
they're able to relax and be whothey are called to be,
according to Christ.
Right Biblically yeah.
Right and rear the children pourinto them, teach them, love
them, connect with them.
Right and rear the childrenpour into them, teach them, love
them, connect with them Right,pray with them.
And the husband has his areathat he does fully yeah.
(32:20):
Right, but I think that also isthat's what you're talking
about.
That's what's under attack.
Yeah, right, right.
Yeah, but I think it's thereminding, you know, and we can
do the same thing for our wives,because they do need it, but
just like we do, but it's thereminding I think of, like look,
you are leaving a legacy, youdo have fruit.
(32:41):
Right.
Take a minute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and look back.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's easy to go into shame.
Shame, I was like thinking,like, oh, like, and I was just,
I was like thinking of certainthings you know in my life and I
was like, oh, I wonder ifanybody was listening to this is
like, oh, like, as soon as thistopic comes up, they just go
right into shame.
You know, for all the stuffthat they can be like, oh man, I
should have done that better,but I just wanted to speak over
(33:05):
that.
Like, like you said, like Ithink, like we're always doing
some good things and maybe otherthings we need help on, you
know, and so I know it's thesame thing.
Sometimes, like you know, mykids will write me something
like and I'll be like, whoa, youknow, like on father's day oh
man.
And I go like, wow, like, thankyou Lord, that my kid thinks
(33:27):
that number one and that I guessI did do that.
Like, thank you God, like youhelped me to do that, you know.
And then you know, I think too,something like my counselors
has said to me on a number ofoccasions it's like you know
what is true biblical leadership.
You know Like, because we thinkwe go right to like the dumb
(33:47):
kind of worldly things, likethey're not dumb but they're
actually.
But there's other things youknow Like they're not dumb but
they're actually.
But there's other things youknow like.
And my counselor was saying tome the other day like, like, did
Jesus lead?
Like by going like this is theway it is and we're going to do
that and this and our family,it's like, no, he didn't, he was
like he led through example andthrough like he's going this
(34:10):
way and people can follow him ifthey choose to.
He's going this way and peoplecan follow him if they choose to
.
And so it was a more like, alittle bit more like relational
than dictatorship, definitely.
You know, and I think, like wego like if we're not
careful.
We want to jump right to allthe things like the you gotta be
a provider and you gotta dothat, and you've got to lead a
(34:30):
Bible study at your own home,like all those things that are
like they seem like the rightthings, and we know you can do
those things too, and you knowyour, your wife, can hate you
because you, because you're notdoing it with love, right?
So, god, help us to lead withlove and compassion and, uh,
understanding.
And how how do we lead ourwives?
(34:54):
Well, how do we lead our kids?
Well, like yeah, like ask theHoly spirit to to lead you in
those things.
You know, I I had aconversation with my wife the
other day of something that waslike kind of like it was
(35:15):
bothering me.
I was kind of like nervousabout this thing that was coming
up and I didn't know what andwe were like I think we, I don't
know, it was just like neitherone of us had we were dancing
around it, yeah and I we weretalking on the phone.
I got off the phone and I feltlike the Lord was like call her
back and bring it up Like don'tlet it go any farther, you know,
(35:39):
and it wasn't anything bad, itwas a good thing, but it was
just something coming up that weneeded.
We just never had aconversation about it and we
needed to have a conversationabout it.
And so I was like I was likecan I talk to you about this
thing?
And I said I'm kind of nervousabout it.
Like I could see, I know thisis coming up.
We haven't really talked aboutit, um.
And I was just like this is howI feel, you know.
(36:00):
And I was like I'm excitedabout it, I'm nervous about it,
I'm scared, I don't know, likeall these things.
Like I just kind of like saidhow I felt and I was nervous
about the conversation becauseit was something we were both
ducking, you know.
And then she was like I am sothankful you brought this up.
Yeah.
(36:22):
And the Lord was like that'sleadership.
You led her to somewhere whereyou guys were both afraid to
talk about it, but you led herthere and then she responded in
like a wonderful way and she wassuper thankful that I took the
lead and wasn't even trying.
You know what I mean.
It wasn't like yo, I'm gonna bea leader and I'm gonna talk.
It was like it was like intotal humbleness and anyways,
(36:46):
and it was awesome and we talkedabout it and she was so
thankful that I brought it up.
I got off the phone and I feltlike the Lord was like that is
leadership.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well it's, it's having the courage right To say
something Right, right.
It's like we a lot of times, asmen, we lack courage.
Yeah.
Right yeah, we lack theintestinal fortitude to actually
say something.
Yeah.
Because we're so nervous aboutbeing wrong, about somebody
(37:15):
making fun of us.
I mean, there's a whole list ofit, right?
Yeah.
Everybody deals with this likeevery day, but it's like if we
could find a way to have thecourage to just bring something
up.
You know and it's.
I think that's why you knowmen's groups work, bible studies
.
You know all of that becauseit's like by you being strong
(37:37):
and leading and saying somethingabout it, somebody else is now
encouraged and their spine isstraightened.
Right.
Right and they're like, oh well,if he talked about it, you know
, and that's.
That was that's, I think,probably the backbone of why
we've been doing this podcast isto be a conversation starter
when, like I mean, we're notreally advertising, we're not
(38:00):
doing all the things thateverybody in the world's doing.
Try and get this out in frontof people.
You know our heart was likeLord.
You know who needs to get this,and we just want you to put it
in those people's hands yeahright and it's like it's to be a
conversation starter to have,for us to have courage to talk
(38:21):
about the things we're goingthrough daily and monthly and
yearly, put them out there forother guys to listen to, to be
an encouragement to them tostiffen and straighten their
spine to and be like, yeah, youknow what, like I can do this, I
can talk about this and yeah,you know what, actually I do
have areas I need to change it.
Yeah.
And then, like, begin on thatjourney with the Lord and asking
(38:43):
him it's like what?
What do I need to change?
What do I need to do?
Yeah, yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
We move forward and sometimes we succeed and
sometimes we fail.
But yeah, and I think that'swhy we started the podcast right
, Because we want to be like,hey, this is, this is working
out our faith with anotherbrother, you know, and yeah,
it's great, in a safe space,right For us to be able to to
talk about things that are inour heart, right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
But the thing you and I have I think, one of the
biggest things we've probablylearned is that it's it's not
just a place for me to be ableto to talk about everything.
Right, it's like I need to beable to receive correction, too.
Right, I need to be honestabout the things that I'm going
through, too right, I need to behonest about the things I'm
going through, the things thatI'm experiencing, right, the the
(39:57):
issues that I'm having areas inmy life that I'm messing up
right and I don't know how tofix it.
Yeah, right and then beingwilling to talk about that with
you.
And then you know, not just youoffering encouragement, but
offering correction too yeahright and it's like look there,
you need to make an adjustmentright here.
Yeah, I'm really feeling likethat's not the right way to do
this or that's not right theright way to think or talk, or
(40:20):
yeah you know we've done thatfor each other like like daily
right, I mean for yeah, foryears yeah, yeah we're like man,
like I'm seeing this right nowand I'm like this is what I'm
like, picking up on dude, asyou're saying that, and maybe
give this a shot, and then yougo for it and you give it a shot
and realize that, dude, thatlittle adjustment helped out so
(40:43):
much.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, I remember years ago, pastor James McDonald
.
He said back in the day when wewere listening to him all the
time, he said you should have atleast one guy that you go to
and you say, hey, you havecomplete authority to call me on
my BS if I'm doing somethingwrong, I give you full authority
(41:18):
to say and point it out and andtell me why and how I'm messing
.
You know, and I, I just lovethat and I know, I know we've
said that to each other and Iactually had another friend
recently say that to me like outof the blue.
I was like Whoa, that is socool, you know, and I think I
think it's um, and I think it'sa huge problem that most men
(41:39):
have, because it's like andmaybe women, I don't know, but
they're like, they're not underanybody's authority, they're
like I'm the boss, I do whateverI want and I'm not even open to
somebody telling me that I'mdoing something wrong.
And what's funny is like thatis actually like anti-following
jesus, because if we're, ifthat's how we are with other
people, how are we even open tothe, the holy spirit, telling us
(42:02):
we're doing something wrong?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
far more intimate right yeah than in all areas
right yeah, I mean you'retalking up in your face, up in
your business.
You know he, he has the abilityto get in.
Or like we have no desire forhim to be in right, right,
because we would never letsomebody that we don't trust in
(42:23):
that far right right yeah, and Ithink it's a.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
It's also like a human way of practicing being
under the holy spirit'sleadership, you know, because
it's like when another guy tellsus like, hey, dude, like I see
this thing in your life, it'slike number one, we're going to
be, we're going to go right to afence, but that's what the Holy
Spirit's doing to us all thetime, so it kind of helps, it's
(42:48):
like you know, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
You have that log in your eye.
Let me get the axe real quick.
Calls you on your stuff, man.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, and you know what's crazy I'm thinking too.
It's like it's actually areally loving thing to do.
It's like I see this guy overhere, my friend, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, he is rapidlyapproaching a cliff.
I can see it, he can't see it.
I love this dude.
I don't want this guy to goover the edge, so I'm going to
tell him that's so loving, Wellit's actually the mercy of God,
(43:26):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Right, I mean it's the Holy Spirit showing us how
to operate in the mercy of God.
Dude, it's like when we dostuff right, we're caught up in
something We've believed, a lie.
It's twisted and we're justcaught up in this thing.
Dude, that's just affecting usand everyone around us and it's
(43:48):
like then we get found out andthen we want to be mad because
we got found out.
But it actually I mean honestlyit's- the mercy of god that we
got found out yeah because heloves us and others love us
enough where they care for ourwell-being and are willing to
(44:09):
call us on our crap, even whenwe don't want to believe it or
can't believe it because we'retwisted up.
Right, it's, it's him.
It's him allowing us to get tothat place where you know, or
being exposed yeah, you knowwhat I mean you know it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I was thinking like you mean, you know it's crazy.
I was thinking like how demonicis that?
That when we see somebody whois, you know, doing something
they shouldn't do, and we arelike we're aware of it and we
think like I should saysomething, that oppression, that
is right there is insane.
Yeah, the oppression right therein that moment is like, bro,
(44:52):
you better not say anything, youhave no right.
You know, like just I don'teven know.
Do you know?
There's like a wall of demonicoppression that comes against
you.
That's like don't even say that, like you can't say that to
that person.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
How dare you Dude?
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Wild right Straight up yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Straight up.
You like, feel it like hardcore, you're like, there's no way I
could say that it's like it'swhen you almost have to go into
that thing, that situation,knowing that you're gonna have
all 21 guns pointed at you, dude, right, because they're in
their defense, right, they'renot.
They're not going to be able tosee that.
(45:31):
You're coming at it from thestandpoint of love yeah right,
and that's really what it is.
It's like your heart ismotivated, or should be
motivated, by love.
You care for that person.
You want to bring things totheir attention.
You know a lot of the timeswe're we're nervous or scared to
do it because you know, wedon't know how to maybe present
(45:52):
it in a way where it'll bereceived and I honestly don't
know if there is even a way toeven do that yeah it's more of
just speaking the truth in loveyeah right, and then allowing
the holy spirit to just take itand do with it what he wants,
because you know they initiallyare going to get mad yeah,
you're bringing it up, yeah butit's like it's the mercy of God
(46:14):
that you have even got found out.
He could have let you continuein your sin or your lie or
whatever the situation was, andyou could just walk off a cliff.
Yeah.
But he's trying to get yourattention and say, hey, look at,
stop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I think like, well, number one, I think I was
just thinking, if you'relistening to this podcast, I
would encourage you to ask theLord is that something I should
do, that I should give a brotherthat I know you know?
Like, let him know, like, hey,because I think, like you have
(46:52):
to.
The right way to do this is tosay to somebody I trust you
enough to give you theopportunity to say something to
me, like I'm telling you rightnow I'm giving you an opening
with me in my life to where,like, if you see me screwing up,
please tell me.
And once you've given thatperson that opening, then then
they're more freely, you know,like they're more willing to
(47:16):
take, to take that opportunity,cause I mean, it is a scary
thing, oh for sure you know.
So, like, if you're listening,pray about that and ask the Lord
, like who should I?
And?
And be careful, obviously,cause you need to do it with
somebody that you really knowloves you.
And then, on the flip side ofthis, I don't think that it's
something that we have to becareful, like just because we
see something in somebody else,we may not have that
(47:39):
relationship with them to saythis, this is not like a.
We can't just fire this nuke ateverybody like you really have
to be friends with the guy,because I could see, you know I
mean I think we've all had itmaybe some random person comes
up and tells us something likeand they have no relationship
with us, so it's just pain.
Yeah, yep, I don't know thatthis person loves me.
(48:01):
All I hear is that they justhit me over the head with a
baseball bat right right, andmaybe they're right, but we
don't have that kind ofrelationship.
Well, there's the truth right,and.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
And then there's the truth in love.
Exactly right, there's thetruth, right.
And then there's the truth inlove.
Exactly Right, there's thetruth.
I mean, truth is going to hurt,whether it's in love or not.
Right, but it's how it'sreceived.
Yeah.
Right, right, and I mean, Icould bro we could speak truth
all day long.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And just, I mean, we're cutting down trees in a
forest.
You know what I mean, but ifit's not covered in love, right
where I'm exuding the heart ofthe Father, when I'm talking to
somebody, like you know, I mean,come on, let's just get real
for a second.
You know, when somebody is justgiving you lip service, dude,
versus when somebody's heart isactually engaged in the
(48:45):
conversation.
Yeah, there's a distinctdifference in the way that you
feel inside.
Yeah, because it hits you.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, yeah, difference in the way that you
feel inside, yeah, because ithits you.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm thinkingof this is we, we've played
this out with each other and I'mthinking that, like I remember,
you know, like times whenyou've said something to me and
I'm like, like and this iswhat's interesting instead of
like, instead of like me, likebreathing out some sort of like
(49:15):
response, like, oh, yeah, well,like, you know what I mean Like
I go, like, oh, and it's like Igo oh, like this is a guy I
trust, this is a guy who I knowloves me, and he just told me
something hard.
I better, just, I really needto.
You know what I mean.
As opposed to, if it wassomebody else saying it, I would
(49:36):
probably want to attack.
But we have, you know, you havethat connection with another,
with another guy.
It's like spiritually, and youknow this person cares for you.
You're just it, it.
It's like, even though it hurts, like your defenses go down,
yeah, and if you don't have therelationship with somebody,
you're, your defenses are goingto go up like, yeah, you just
attacked me.
You know, like, because youdon't trust the person, or you
(49:59):
know you don't have thatrelationship.
But yeah, I was thinking likewhen you've said things to me, I
just kind of go like it's sortof like you know, it's like yeah
, you're right like, oh, shoot,you know.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah, yeah, but it's a beautiful thing, well, and
we've bombed.
We've bombed plenty of times too, with each other too, where
we've maybe haven't said itquite as much in love as we need
to, or we're a little bit morepointed than necessary, and but
because of that relationshipit's twofold yeah then grace now
operates yeah right, becauseyou're like, that was really
(50:32):
harsh how he said that yeah butbecause we have a relationship,
I can do one of two things, orboth right, I can either do the
same thing and take what yousaid and consider it right, or I
can do that and also tell youlike hey, bro, that was a little
rough man like yeah, I hearwhat you're saying, right you
(50:55):
know, and if you really thinkthere's something there like
I'll, I'll take a look and I'llsee yeah right, but it was just.
It just came across a littlerough yeah and kind of hurt my
feelings a little bit yeah right.
I mean, we even had a situationI don't have to go into details,
but we even had a situation,like months ago, where it was
something like that and it wasthe way that I had responded,
(51:16):
where I was distracted, right,and I wasn't really fully paying
attention to what was beingtalked about, and said something
, and it was a little pointedand insensitive, and you had
gotten quiet for a couple daysand then I came.
I came a couple days later, Isaw you in the office and I was
like, hey, what's up, man, areyou okay?
and I, I think I began toapologize to you for the way
(51:39):
that I said what I said and youjust kind of looked at me and
you were like, yeah, that reallykind of hurt my feelings, right
yeah and that for me wasconfirmation, like okay, yeah,
that's, I need to work on thatarea, because I was a little, I
was a little harsh, right,because when you're really good
friends too, it's like yourdefenses are down too.
(51:59):
It's like, and you're you're alittle you're way more free with
each other, right you know,because inside you're thinking
like shut up, dude, just take iton the chin like
what like stop being a girl,yeah right, or whatever, and
it's, but this wasn't one ofthose situations to do that.
This wasn't that.
It was a serious thing, dude,and it was.
You know their emotions tied toit and everything and it wasn't
a time to be funny.
(52:20):
You know it was, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
But as an example right yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
You want to know what's awesome.
I don't even remember what itwas Like, that's and that's,
that's, but that's the love,that's the love of God and the
love of friendship and the loveof forgiveness.
It's like I, I don't, I promiseyou, I I sort of remember, like
the idea of this, but I don'tremember what the offense was,
which is actually really coolLike yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
It's love covers the multitude of sins.
Yeah, yeah, for sure no, I, Ionly remember because it's it's
it was.
It was enough of us of what wasgoing on in the situation to
leave a lasting memory for me,because it was one of those
milestones where it's like thelord was dealing with me and how
to how to take care of it theright way to talk yeah I need to
(53:09):
go back, I need to apologizeand repent and say look, man,
I'm sorry.
You know it was a learning thingfor me, so it's stuck in there.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
That's cool, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And that's friendship, right?
Yeah, that's true friendship.
We're like uh-oh, maybe Istepped over a line, but then we
go fix it and you know, likewhatever.
But yeah line and.
But then we go fix it and youknow, like whatever, but yeah,
what's the matter with you.
Yeah, that's awesome acrocomandI know I was like bro you
punched me in the nuts and Ididn't know I needed to have my
(53:39):
guard on.
we might need to edit that.
I didn't wear my cup to worktoday, sorry, and on that note.
On that note, we better pray.
(54:00):
Jesus help us.
We better go forward on Sunday.
That's a bad joke right there.
Woo, I just got dizzy.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
We'll edit that one out.
Maybe we could just beep it.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Like we've never had a beep before, like that'd be
cool that would be really cool.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, I'm going to beep it.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just for fun, or guys.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Just for funsies.
You've got to have the littlebit of risque, dude right.
I mean we don't honestly thinkany girl would listen to this.
Anyways, locker room, but it'sreally close.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
It's super close oh man, this has been great yeah, I
know this has been great yeah,once you um, once you praise out
sweet lord, thanks for today,thanks for um just giving us a
some time to um get into yourword, into just discussing these
(54:55):
things, lord, into learning howto become better men and strong
and courageous.
And just, lord, bless everybodywho's listened today.
Give them courage to follow you, give them courage to be under
your authority and to findfriends who they can walk with
(55:17):
through life that will encouragethem, lead them, correct them
and just push them forward, lord, into following you.
And Lord, we just pray ablessing over everybody's family
who's listening, and just theirwork, their relationships.
Just give them joy today, lord,fill them with your Holy Spirit
(55:40):
and give us all joy In Jesus'name, amen, amen.
Wait.
So instead of me having tofulfill the law, if I just of.
The gospel is so good that it'slike he is the one who's going
(00:26):
to live out the righteous lifein us, and then I love this and
now we're free to live.
It's almost like, bro, just golive Yo here, we go.
(00:47):
Hey, hey, what's up, brother?
Good morning, good morningeveryone.
Welcome to the Die A LittleMore podcast.
I'm glad to be here and sittingin the truck early morning
coffee.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Ready Coffee.
Ready to go.
Ready to go Ready to go.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
My daughter.
I was just talking to her onthe phone.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
She's like where do you do?
Speaker 1 (01:07):
the podcast.
I was like in a Starbucksparking lot In the work truck In
the work truck.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hey, actually Chevy did a solid dude.
This thing is actually prettyairtight.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Pretty surprising.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
We don't have a million-dollar studio, we have a
truck that's not even ours.
Well, you know just borrowingit.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
But yeah, you're right.
I have found that it is like acar is a pretty amazing sound
studio, because it edits out somuch sound and it's quiet,
unless you have a crazy homelessperson knocking on your window.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, you just got to be careful where you're parking
.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, or somebody's in front of you and they're like
parking and they're a badparker and you're just like
watching them and you just gettotally distracted because
you're pretty sure they're goingto hit that car over there are
the ones that walk by that justrandomly decide they're going to
stare at you and look at youweird, because, like they're,
what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
yeah, I've seen that a couple times.
I'm like I can't look at thosepeople.
Do not make eye contact becausethey're like you're weird.
What are you doing in that carwith microphones and a dude?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Don't ask any questions.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
We're like you don't even know anything about it,
just keep walking, oh man.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Got to get it all out of the system.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, we got to shake it free.
It's like doing that shake yourarms out and your legs out
before you work out yeah, we'rein a really good mood today.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
We've got a lot of good stuff going on and we've
got the podcast we're gonna doright now.
Yep, we've got work today,which will be great oh yeah and
then we've got a christian metalconcert to go to this evening.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like the best day ever.
It's like the best day ever.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's like the best day ever, except for teenagers
all over again.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean the Lord says like ifyou're going to enter the
kingdom, you got to do it like achild, right, right?
So, what's up?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Like a child, give me my or childish.
No, like a child.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Childish, I tried that one.
It doesn't work the same.
Lots of complaining and crying.
Are we there yet?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She's never ended up, good, are we?
There yet.
God.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Jeez, this is taking forever.
I don't like these vegetables.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I know I'm supposed to eat this but it doesn't taste
good.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It has been a minute.
Oh man, it's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, I don't know if you want to talk about this,
but, like yesterday, you weretalking about work and you
brought up work today and it wascool what you said, because you
were like we got work and it'sgoing to be good.
Like I heard you say that andit reminded me of the
conversation we were havingyesterday about just staying
positive with work and oh, yeah,yeah, it's um I I think we
always are bent slightly me moreso than others just just on the
(03:59):
negative train.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, and it's.
Things are happening.
You're immediately your firstthought is something negative,
or you have some kind ofbackhanded comment or something
under your breath, or youcomplain and get upset and get
angry and allow yourself to bemoved to this place that you
know.
It's like you, I'm realizing,it's like hey, like you have
control of that, you can decidehow you're going to react to
(04:24):
that.
Right, and just lately the lordhas just been working on me and
I'm trying to see things alittle bit differently and just
chill out and relax and realizethat not everything is like a
life and death situation right,yeah how to have more grace in
situations, you know, wherethings don't go the way I
expected them.
(04:48):
You know, and yesterday we weretalking a little bit about that
and just me learning how toreact differently and how that
is changing the way that I amfor that moment and for the rest
of the day as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, yeah, like one moment of like jumping off the
cliff of anger or whatever likecan really set like the whole
day off.
You know, and like almost everyother, you know relationship,
every other connection we havewith people, yeah, Because
usually it's without theparachute.
Right, we splat at the bottom.
(05:18):
Everybody's coming with us, bythe way, we're going to take
everybody down.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's a wily coyote dude.
No parachute Full on Right overthe side of the cliff.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, and I think I said to you I mean, I
struggle with the same thing.
I can be.
It's like my bent is towardsnegativity and, man, I really
(05:48):
have to like think about it andwork on it, um, just because I
yeah, that's like it's my bent,it's my nature, but, um, we were
saying yesterday, like, butit's not like the way we're
supposed to think.
You know.
So, even if that is the way Iam, you know, um, you know we're
supposed to be having arenewing of the mind or we're
supposed to be like walking inthe kingdom, right, and and the
(06:09):
kingdom.
When Jesus talks about thekingdom, it's, it's not about,
it's not like that, it's like,uh, and it's something that
we've said before on the podcastit's about like believing the
words that the Lord has said.
You know like, I have goodplans for you, you know, um, and
(06:31):
in those moments, where itdoesn't look good, we're
supposed to still hang on tothose um promises.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's really, that's really hard.
That's been a really hardlesson for me, cause it's it is
my default.
You know, a lot of it isenvironment.
I think I said yesterday I needto stop being lazy in my
emotions and really just takecontrol and take charge and
(06:58):
realize that, hey, I'm the onethat's in charge of these and I
can determine how I'm going toreact to a situation.
And you know, and, and I thinkreading, reading the word and
allowing the Lord to work on youis a big factor in that, just
refining, you know mypersonality and and how I, how I
interact with people and reactwith everything.
(07:19):
So it's been, it's been sort ofcool yeah so verb is just
changing a little bit.
When I'm talking, I notice I'mthinking a little bit
differently and respondingdifferently.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool man, I see it in you.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's cool.
I was thinking like I've heardpeople say like when something
happens, you can't just go tolike the worst version of
yourself, right, but that's ourdefault, you know because, but
(07:49):
that's our default, you know.
And it's like maybe like whenwe were younger or before we
were saved.
It's like something bad happensand you just swing at some dude
, right, like that's just yourthing, and now that we're older
and like a little bit more,we've grown a little bit more,
it's like we don't do thatanymore, but this is something
that we always talk about.
It's like the Lord continues tolike peel the onion with us.
You know, it's like I used topunch a dude and now I don't
anymore, so like I'm way better.
But the Lord's like, hmm, likeyou know, like you are, you are,
(08:11):
but like it's now it's goneinto.
Instead of like physical things, it's, it's like spiritual, um
ways of thinking.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know, it's your emotions that he's dealing with
and I think I think I said toyou yesterday it's your emotions
, yeah, that he's dealing with,and I think I think I said to
you yesterday it's it's, it islearned behavior.
I mean not not to use that as aget out of jail free card to
absolve herself from any kind ofresponsibility from ourselves,
but I mean that's how society isand I think that's where the
laziness comes in, where it'sjust really easy to be like,
well, that's what everybody elseis doing yeah right, yeah, I
(08:41):
mean, everybody else is actingthat way.
This is how everyone I knowreacts to these situations and
stuff, and so you just flip onthe lazy switch and you're like,
okay, well, that's just the wayit's going to be, because it's
really easy for me just to dosomething without thinking about
it right, right yeah but if Iwant to be in control of, like
my reactions and be responsibleand mature, you know, and then I
(09:04):
need to take a second and Ineed to look how I should
respond to a situation.
I think we've even talked aboutthat a few times in some of the
episodes too, where it's likeit's it's learning to respond
and not react in situations yeahyeah, yeah, my counselor says
that a lot, you know.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
He's like um, you know, sometimes we're not like
emotionally mature enough tolike respond well, you know.
So we react right.
And it's funny I mean, I thinkI'm growing in that too and it's
crazy because the react comesout immediately, without even
(09:40):
thinking, you know, and I canthink of a situation just this
last week where I said somethingand I was like, oh, shoot, like
it came out too fast, and thenI was like, wait, stop, that's
not what I meant.
Um, this is what I mean, youknow, or this is how I feel you
know.
Um, so being able to recognizeit is huge.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, that's good too , though I mean, cause it's a
lot of the times it just happensand we're so caught up in the
moment, emotionally or whateverit we don't even ever stop to
catch ourselves.
So I mean, if you're dealingwith somebody on a regular basis
that sees you react on an onthe norm right yeah then seeing
you catch yourself, oh man,shoot.
(10:18):
I'm so sorry.
That's not what I meant.
That's not my intention.
Here's what I really meant tosay yeah, this is how I really
feel about this situation.
I mean, that actually is shouldbe good news to them too.
Yeah, Because they're like ohwow, you caught that Right.
Right, Instead of just doublingdown and just when you know,
then I would have what I wasgoing to have as a reaction,
Right, you went ahead and justapologized and were like like
(10:41):
that's not what I meant yeah,yeah yeah, and I think that that
does go a long way because thethe other person sees like, hey,
you're not doing the thing thatyou always do right you know
and they can see that the lord'sworking in you right
Speaker 1 (10:54):
yeah, and that goes a long way.
Yeah, you know, instead of justbulldozing like we always do,
you know, yeah, I was sayingyesterday, when we were talking
about this too, um, it remindsme that you know the verse in
romans.
It says do not conform anylonger to the pattern of this
world.
And I was saying to you, likethe pattern of this world is
like react, you know, and like,well, you said this, so I'm
(11:18):
gonna say this back becausethat's what we do and that is a
pattern of this world, right,but it's not the kingdom, like
it's not how Jesus would lovesomebody, but it is how the
world does it.
And so if I'm like, well, sorry, this is just the way I am, and
I this is the way everybodydoes it.
What did you say?
You said if I, if you're sayingto yourself this is the way
(11:40):
everybody does it, it's like ared flag you know, yeah, yeah,
yeah, you're already in troubleright because you know that's
the way the masses are doing it,right, right yeah, which is not
the way we're supposed to bedoing it, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
that's good stuff.
That's really.
I think it's really important.
I mean, it's making theselittle changes and these little
alterations.
I am, you know, as long aswe've been doing the podcast now
, which hasn't been too long.
But you know, in our otherconversations we have on the
side.
It's sort of like now when wetalk about it later.
You know, I can, I can stepback and take a look at it and
(12:21):
sort of be like, wow, you know,that's like we have, have, we
have.
We actually have grown quite abit to where we're catching
things and trying to change.
You know, it's not just talkingabout them because we're we're
in the process.
You can actually see now there'ssome fruit yeah from that I
know right where you've madesome progress in that.
So it's pretty, it's prettycool right, like seriously.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
I mean I'm not joking , but it's like yeah, yay yay
for us.
I mean, it's like I think we'reboth growing, you know, and
that's like, yeah, it is amazingand yeah and it's okay to
celebrate.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I mean exactly, exactly totally you know there's
, there's, yeah, there's so manythings that get you down in
life and so many things that we,you know there's problems
everywhere right now.
So it's like celebrate thelittle victories, you know,
while you can, totally you know,as's problems everywhere right
now.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So it's like celebrate the little victories
you know while you can, totallyyou know, as an encouragement
yeah, right, and it's likereally, it's like thank you,
lord, that like you've opened upmy eyes to this thing and that
you've empowered me to startchanging.
Yeah, you know, and I'm notlike I used to be yeah, yeah
yeah, huge, yeah, so what you'vegot today well, actually it's
cool.
I was reading this this morningin Romans and it kind of talks
(13:27):
about what we're talking about.
I don't know where to start,but like At the beginning, at
the beginning, all right, well,I'll read for just a little bit
and then I'll jump into thething that I was going to, that
I wanted to talk about.
So this is in Romans, you know,at the end of Romans 7, it says
(13:51):
I give all my thanks to God,for his mighty power has finally
provided a way out through ourLord Jesus, the anointed one.
So if left to myself, the fleshis aligned with the law of sin.
So if left to myself, the fleshis aligned with the law of sin.
And now my renewed mind.
And now, oh sorry, but now myrenewed mind is fixed on and
(14:12):
submitted to God's righteousness.
And that caught my eye becauseI've been focused on, like, the
renewing of the mind.
I was like, oh, it says itright there.
And then yeah, and then so keepgoing, yeah, and then so keep
going.
Verse chapter eight says so.
Now the case is closed.
There remains no accusing voiceof condemnation against those
who are joined in life unionwith Jesus, the anointed one For
(14:36):
the law.
In quotation marks of thespirit of life flowing through
the anointing.
The anointing of Jesus hasliberated us from the law of sin
and death.
And I was like, oh, that's cool.
It's like there's a new law.
You know, there was like thelaw of sin and death and now
there's a new law of beingliberated through Jesus.
(14:56):
Okay, okay, this is the coolpart.
I mean all of it's cool, butthis was the part that got me
(15:26):
this morning.
So now every righteousrequirement of the law can be
fulfilled through the anointedone living his life in us.
And I was like, wait, soinstead of me having to fulfill
the law, if I just releasemyself to the Lord, to the
(15:49):
control of the Holy Spirit?
It says every righteousrequirement of the law can be
fulfilled through the anointedone, through Jesus living his
life in us.
And I was like, so it's noteven about me having to do
anything Like, literally, theGod, the new, the good news of
the gospel is so good that it'slike he is the one right, he is
(16:14):
the one who's going to live outthe righteous life in us.
And then I love this too.
And now we're free to live.
It's almost, bro, just go live,because the, the holy anointed
one, is going to live outrighteousness in us.
So it says now we are free tolive not according to our flesh
but by the dynamic power of theholy spirit.
(16:36):
And I was just like it kind ofbrings me relief when I read
that verse, because I justreally like that it says so now
every righteous requirement ofthe law can be fulfilled through
the anointed one living hislife in us.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So I'm going to double down on that.
John, chapter 15, verses four.
So you must remain in lifeunion with me, for I remain in
life union with you, for as abranch severed from the vine
will not bear fruit, so yourlife will be fruitless unless
you live your life intimatelyjoined to mine, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So good, well, apart from me, you can do nothing.
I mean, we can keep going andkeep going.
But it's like you know.
Those two verses right there,dude, are more than enough to
know.
It's like it is christ in me,the hope of glory yeah, yeah,
yeah the holy spirit resided inus.
Same power that raised christjesus from the dead resides in
(17:35):
our mortal body, right?
So it's like that.
That is the empowerment, right?
Because what does jesus saylater in in?
I can't remember if it's john17 or it's between 15 and 17, or
he's like like I am in thefather and he is in me, right,
as I am in you and you are in meright it's, it's, it's almost
(17:58):
like it's, it's not, not, notthe trinity thing, don't get me
wrong.
I don't want to have the heresy.
Please get my phone number andtrack me down but it's it.
There's this, there's thisunion that's supposed to happen
between all of us, right, right,like he, he, they have the
father, the son, the holy spirit, right, but now it's like
they're wanting to include uswithin that too, in that cycle,
(18:21):
right, right, where it's all ofus, in all of us.
Right, we're supposed to beoperating in unison, together.
Yeah, right, yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, what I was seeing in this verse is like
it's super encouraging becauseit's like it sounds like what
it's saying is, if we givecontrol to the Holy Spirit,
he'll live the life that hewants through us.
Basically, I guess the way Isee that is like okay, lord,
(18:55):
what do you want to do today?
Right, I just like.
I surrendered myself in lettinghim lead, and the cool thing is
it says that he fulfills all ofour righteous requirements that
way, by letting him lead.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah Well why?
Because they said that Jesussays when I go away there'll
come another right.
He's the helper.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, we can't fulfill.
The Bible says multiple timeswe can't, we couldn't.
There's nothing we could do tofulfill the law.
Dude.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Right.
Yeah, nothing yeah.
Apart from Christ and apart fromthe holy spirit do there's
nothing that we can do tofulfill the law.
You know it's funny.
I know I saw this too thismorning and I read it already.
But it's sort of crazy becauseit says, uh, for god achieved so
through jesus what the law wasunable to accomplish.
(19:47):
So I was like, oh, the lawwasn't good enough.
But then it says because thelaw was limited by me.
Basically it says the law waslimited because of the weakness
of humans.
So the law is perfect, but theproblem with it was us.
We ruined it, we tanked it, youknow?
(20:11):
Yeah, but he fulfilled itthrough his son.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So cool.
Well, it just shows that wedon't have the power to do
things in our own strength.
Right, I mean we'redisillusioned at best.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Right Like oh, I got this.
No, you don't Right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Not even close.
Not even close yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, you know, not even close.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
I mean obviously some thingsit's like we've learned how to
do and they're simple, simpletasks, and I'm talking like
keeping it in context of whatwe're talking about here is like
yeah, when it talks about ournature and our life, living our
life and living for the lord,being able to change or follow,
you know the instructions thathe lays out before us.
You know, it's almost as likeyou know that the thing
(20:56):
everybody says it's like well,I'm a good person.
Yeah, I'm a good person, right,like well, are you?
Speaker 1 (21:06):
yeah, it really depends on what your, uh, what
your grade is.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Right, well, right well, I'm just saying, though,
it's like our, our abilitybecause I mean that you're a
good person to know it's thatyou're in control of yourself
and being able to control yourmind right will your emotions
and all of that right and it'slike that's just not going to
happen right, when you usuallylike a person is saying that too
, like right after they gotarrested.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
They're like whoa bro , you're taking me to like I'm a
good person, I'm a good person,I'm a good person.
You don't know me, I'm a goodperson, which is a joke, but
it's kind of like that'sgenerally when I want to pop
that one out, and when I'm agood person is like right after
I just did something like it'skind of making me look like I'm
(21:47):
not a good person.
Yeah, no, but that's funny.
But yeah, there's a beautythough of like realizing, though
, like I don't know, you knowbeauty in the dependence part.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, upon the lord right, exactly, exactly yeah,
where it's like, it's not.
I think, as guys dude, this issomething that's harder for us,
but it's not.
It's not us showing weakness,right?
I mean I, I I've got to thinkof, like you know, let's get as
(22:23):
manly as we can here, like army,rangers, navy seals, people
like that, right, it's you know,swat team, something like that
that requires men to worktogether.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Right, and so we were so fiercely independent,
because that's the way societylike rears us as we're growing
up, right.
But to be able to put your ownfeelings and thoughts aside and
to be able to learn how to trusta teammate, yeah right with
(22:58):
your life, ultimately, you knowI've got to trust you.
I've got to follow youliterally.
Sometimes I got to followbehind you wherever we're going
and I got to trust that you'releading me in the right
direction yeah right having mybest and my protection always in
your mind.
Yeah.
Right and then release that.
But the guy behind you isthinking the same thing.
(23:18):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that's a goodpicture for us, even within the
church context, of the churchand it's like what are we doing?
It's like all of us are runningaround most places, dude, and
most churches, all independentof each other.
(23:39):
There's, there's no community.
I know this is something that'sbeen on our heart for for a
while.
Dude is trying to even thispodcast was to develop a
community, yeah, forspecifically men.
You know the things that we talkabout on this podcast, or it
can be for anyone, but it'sspecifically geared towards,
towards men, right?
Yeah and it's like that was theaim of our heart was to create
something, to start building acommunity and see where god was
(24:00):
going to take it yeah becausenobody's talking about these
things right nobody's talkingabout us trusting each other.
Nobody's talking about ustrusting him changing our lives,
changing our hearts, you know,being better for our families.
Like nobody's really digginginto these things and talking
about them from a Christianperspective.
Yeah.
Right, there's a lot ofself-help, there's a lot of like
you can do it and all of that,but that's none of that.
(24:22):
Apart from Christ, it's nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And you may have some traction and you may have some
positive things happen.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But for it to last, you can't.
There's no way to sustain it.
Yeah, yeah, and I think we wantto bring in like the jesus
aspect of it too.
Right, like there's all.
There are good podcasts thathelp us to develop, as, like I
don't know, you know businesspeople and you know like
self-help stuff, but like, butultimately we know we're like
all that stuff fails at somepoint.
And there, yeah, we want to beable to talk about that part
(24:56):
past that where there is havingto depend on the Lord and even,
yeah, needing to depend onbrothers you know, who are like
bro.
I got to tell you like this,because this is what's going on
and I need help and I need youto stand with me, you know, in
the fire here, and pray onbehalf of me and my family, or
whatever you know, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(25:17):
Yeah, and I think it's like Idon't know, maybe everybody in
every generation says this, butit feels like desperate times
for men to come into more health.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
You know, it's like we're needed more than ever well
, I mean you can just take oneone look at what's going on in
the news.
You know not to get too far offthe subject, but I mean you've
got the encouragement for men toplay women's sports, and you
know, and for men to becomewomen, and you know, and for
women to leave their homesinstead of men, and yeah, things
(25:53):
like that.
And it's like there's aspecific pattern and way that
that god set it up, where we'rea husband and a wife working
unison together.
You know what I mean, but thehusband ultimately leads yeah
that's the position that hecreated for him yeah you know,
and I, part of me thinks thatbecause men have resigned from
that leadership, the women havetaken that up and a lot of the
(26:16):
times it has gotten distortedright from what it should be or
twisted.
But I think that's why a lot of?
Times you see women taking theforefront in things because the
guys aren't willing to rise upand do that.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, oh man, this is a tree I don't know, aren't
willing to rise up and do that.
Yeah, oh man, this is a tree.
I don't know if I want to barkup, but I've thought about this
a lot and I think that, um, yeah, I think men are under attack
because the enemy wants to, likedecompose the structure right,
(26:51):
and I think it's been for awhile, and I even think it
started like a long, like quitea while ago with like, oh man,
uh, like with like doors alreadybeen kicked.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, I might as well just run through it.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
With, like, like, and I think that this is a satanic,
demonic attack of the structure, of the way it's supposed to be
.
But like with like, um, women'slike, uh, liberation, like
women's right stuff, like likegetting out of control and kind
of being led by like people whoare like you know, I don't know
very worldly.
It's like the structure hasgotten corroded and like men are
(27:31):
now like pushed down, or menhave reside, or like bowed out.
You know, um, and also, I mean,I heard somebody so in Genesis,
where after Adam and Eve sinned, you know, I heard somebody
interpret this one time as likeum, adam had to then go to work,
(27:51):
you know, and Eve will havepain in her childbirth, and and
then there's that line that says, and her desire would be for
her husband, like, or somethinglike that, but I I've heard it
said that the translation is herdesire would be for her
husband's position of leadership, like she would want to rule
over him, like it was like itwas part of the twist, part of
(28:12):
it's part of the fall.
That's interesting, yeah, and Ithink in our society, I think
men have been downplayed as like, oh, men are big dopes and
fools and they don't really knowhow to.
You know, even on TV, right, thedad is always dumb, right, it's
like there's, I mean, dude, themodel is this there's always
(28:37):
some beautiful lady who's gotall of her stuff together and
then some ding-dong dad, right,that's the model, like that we
all see, even that's likedemonic, it's like that's saying
like the dad isn't important,you know, right, and it's just's
(28:58):
all of it is like that slightof hands, demonic, like taste,
you know like, of putting mendown.
And and I think what you and meare like really wanting to do
is, is and just is to say, likewe recognize that and let's,
let's try to like put this backin order, like, you know like,
because if the model is thefather, christ, uh, you know
like, and then christ, right, so, like we, we are, we are like
(29:21):
the head of the household we'resupposed to be like like, you
know what I mean the image ofgod to our family, um, and if
we're not, then the whole thingis out of order, right?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
You talk to one wife that has a husband that's
leading the home, that's goingto church, leading the family,
right working, providing anddoing all the things right
you're supposed to do.
You talk to that wife and askher if she's mad and feels like
he's suppressing her Right,right, if he's like, if she
(30:07):
feels demeaned because she knowsthat she should be in charge,
or whatever the case is.
Whatever the rhetoric is duderight.
Like she will look at you andhave a list of things to say.
Right, and I've been remindedof this recently.
This is why I love likeFather's Day and you know other
days like that, because it's achance.
You know it's like Mother's Dayor anything like that.
(30:29):
You get a chance to say a lotof things that you wish you
would have said all year, rightyeah and it's like it's that
that kind of day, right.
So it's like you just, you justknow that it's like, hey, I'm
gonna put my thoughts down in my, my heart down and in a card or
something like that, right, butit's like you know my wife is
really good at doing this whereshe'll send me these things on
(30:50):
like, like instagram or facebookor you know.
Father's day I'll get a cardthat says says it all, but it's
like.
It's like thank you for leadingour home, thank you for praying
for our family yeah thank youfor providing for us, for
leading our children, for, forpouring into your children, you
(31:12):
know, because you can see thatthey all love the lord right.
And it goes down this list ofthings, dude, and it's like and
it always brings tears to myeyes, and because it's like we
don't we often, as men, we don'tthink about that, we just get
stuck in work mode and we justlead, lead, lead, lead, lead
yeah and we don't often lookback to see the fruit yeah of
what we're leaving as a legacy,because we're so caught up with
(31:36):
everything that's going on inlife and I think these times
offer us a unique ability tolook back, and it's like you can
talk to those wives that havemen or husbands that are leading
like that.
They don't want their spot.
Yeah, right Because they knowthat they're operating in the
fullness of what they'resupposed to operate, and so
(31:59):
they're able to relax and be whothey are called to be,
according to Christ.
Right Biblically yeah.
Right and rear the children pourinto them, teach them, love
them, connect with them.
Right and rear the childrenpour into them, teach them, love
them, connect with them Right,pray with them.
And the husband has his areathat he does fully yeah.
(32:20):
Right, but I think that also isthat's what you're talking
about.
That's what's under attack.
Yeah, right, right.
Yeah, but I think it's thereminding, you know, and we can
do the same thing for our wives,because they do need it, but
just like we do, but it's thereminding I think of, like look,
you are leaving a legacy, youdo have fruit.
(32:41):
Right.
Take a minute.
Yeah, yeah, yeah and look back.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's easy to go into shame.
Shame, I was like thinking,like, oh, like, and I was just,
I was like thinking of certainthings you know in my life and I
was like, oh, I wonder ifanybody was listening to this is
like, oh, like, as soon as thistopic comes up, they just go
right into shame.
You know, for all the stuffthat they can be like, oh man, I
should have done that better,but I just wanted to speak over
(33:05):
that.
Like, like you said, like Ithink, like we're always doing
some good things and maybe otherthings we need help on, you
know, and so I know it's thesame thing.
Sometimes, like you know, mykids will write me something
like and I'll be like, whoa, youknow, like on father's day oh
man.
And I go like, wow, like, thankyou Lord, that my kid thinks
(33:27):
that number one and that I guessI did do that.
Like, thank you God, like youhelped me to do that, you know.
And then you know, I think too,something like my counselors
has said to me on a number ofoccasions it's like you know
what is true biblical leadership.
You know Like, because we thinkwe go right to like the dumb
(33:47):
kind of worldly things, likethey're not dumb but they're
actually.
But there's other things youknow Like they're not dumb but
they're actually.
But there's other things youknow like.
And my counselor was saying tome the other day like, like, did
Jesus lead?
Like by going like this is theway it is and we're going to do
that and this and our family,it's like, no, he didn't, he was
like he led through example andthrough like he's going this
(34:10):
way and people can follow him ifthey choose to.
He's going this way and peoplecan follow him if they choose to
.
And so it was a more like, alittle bit more like relational
than dictatorship, definitely.
You know, and I think, like wego like if we're not
careful.
We want to jump right to allthe things like the you gotta be
a provider and you gotta dothat, and you've got to lead a
(34:30):
Bible study at your own home,like all those things that are
like they seem like the rightthings, and we know you can do
those things too, and you knowyour, your wife, can hate you
because you, because you're notdoing it with love, right?
So, god, help us to lead withlove and compassion and, uh,
understanding.
And how how do we lead ourwives?
(34:54):
Well, how do we lead our kids?
Well, like yeah, like ask theHoly spirit to to lead you in
those things.
You know, I I had aconversation with my wife the
other day of something that waslike kind of like it was
(35:15):
bothering me.
I was kind of like nervousabout this thing that was coming
up and I didn't know what andwe were like I think we, I don't
know, it was just like neitherone of us had we were dancing
around it, yeah and I we weretalking on the phone.
I got off the phone and I feltlike the Lord was like call her
back and bring it up Like don'tlet it go any farther, you know,
(35:39):
and it wasn't anything bad, itwas a good thing, but it was
just something coming up that weneeded.
We just never had aconversation about it and we
needed to have a conversationabout it.
And so I was like I was likecan I talk to you about this
thing?
And I said I'm kind of nervousabout it.
Like I could see, I know thisis coming up.
We haven't really talked aboutit, um.
And I was just like this is howI feel, you know.
(36:00):
And I was like I'm excitedabout it, I'm nervous about it,
I'm scared, I don't know, likeall these things.
Like I just kind of like saidhow I felt and I was nervous
about the conversation becauseit was something we were both
ducking, you know.
And then she was like I am sothankful you brought this up.
Yeah.
(36:22):
And the Lord was like that'sleadership.
You led her to somewhere whereyou guys were both afraid to
talk about it, but you led herthere and then she responded in
like a wonderful way and she wassuper thankful that I took the
lead and wasn't even trying.
You know what I mean.
It wasn't like yo, I'm gonna bea leader and I'm gonna talk.
It was like it was like intotal humbleness and anyways,
(36:46):
and it was awesome and we talkedabout it and she was so
thankful that I brought it up.
I got off the phone and I feltlike the Lord was like that is
leadership.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well it's, it's having the courage right To say
something Right, right.
It's like we a lot of times, asmen, we lack courage.
Yeah.
Right yeah, we lack theintestinal fortitude to actually
say something.
Yeah.
Because we're so nervous aboutbeing wrong, about somebody
(37:15):
making fun of us.
I mean, there's a whole list ofit, right?
Yeah.
Everybody deals with this likeevery day, but it's like if we
could find a way to have thecourage to just bring something
up.
You know and it's.
I think that's why you knowmen's groups work, bible studies
.
You know all of that becauseit's like by you being strong
(37:37):
and leading and saying somethingabout it, somebody else is now
encouraged and their spine isstraightened.
Right.
Right and they're like, oh well,if he talked about it, you know
, and that's.
That was that's, I think,probably the backbone of why
we've been doing this podcast isto be a conversation starter
when, like I mean, we're notreally advertising, we're not
(38:00):
doing all the things thateverybody in the world's doing.
Try and get this out in frontof people.
You know our heart was likeLord.
You know who needs to get this,and we just want you to put it
in those people's hands yeahright and it's like it's to be a
conversation starter to have,for us to have courage to talk
(38:21):
about the things we're goingthrough daily and monthly and
yearly, put them out there forother guys to listen to, to be
an encouragement to them tostiffen and straighten their
spine to and be like, yeah, youknow what, like I can do this, I
can talk about this and yeah,you know what, actually I do
have areas I need to change it.
Yeah.
And then, like, begin on thatjourney with the Lord and asking
(38:43):
him it's like what?
What do I need to change?
What do I need to do?
Yeah, yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
We move forward and sometimes we succeed and
sometimes we fail.
But yeah, and I think that'swhy we started the podcast right
, Because we want to be like,hey, this is, this is working
out our faith with anotherbrother, you know, and yeah,
it's great, in a safe space,right For us to be able to to
talk about things that are inour heart, right.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
But the thing you and I have I think, one of the
biggest things we've probablylearned is that it's it's not
just a place for me to be ableto to talk about everything.
Right, it's like I need to beable to receive correction, too.
Right, I need to be honestabout the things that I'm going
through, too right, I need to behonest about the things I'm
going through, the things thatI'm experiencing, right, the the
(39:57):
issues that I'm having areas inmy life that I'm messing up
right and I don't know how tofix it.
Yeah, right and then beingwilling to talk about that with
you.
And then you know, not just youoffering encouragement, but
offering correction too yeahright and it's like look there,
you need to make an adjustmentright here.
Yeah, I'm really feeling likethat's not the right way to do
this or that's not right theright way to think or talk, or
(40:20):
yeah you know we've done thatfor each other like like daily
right, I mean for yeah, foryears yeah, yeah we're like man,
like I'm seeing this right nowand I'm like this is what I'm
like, picking up on dude, asyou're saying that, and maybe
give this a shot, and then yougo for it and you give it a shot
and realize that, dude, thatlittle adjustment helped out so
(40:43):
much.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Right.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, I remember years ago, pastor James McDonald
.
He said back in the day when wewere listening to him all the
time, he said you should have atleast one guy that you go to
and you say, hey, you havecomplete authority to call me on
my BS if I'm doing somethingwrong, I give you full authority
(41:18):
to say and point it out and andtell me why and how I'm messing
.
You know, and I, I just lovethat and I know, I know we've
said that to each other and Iactually had another friend
recently say that to me like outof the blue.
I was like Whoa, that is socool, you know, and I think I
think it's um, and I think it'sa huge problem that most men
(41:39):
have, because it's like andmaybe women, I don't know, but
they're like, they're not underanybody's authority, they're
like I'm the boss, I do whateverI want and I'm not even open to
somebody telling me that I'mdoing something wrong.
And what's funny is like thatis actually like anti-following
jesus, because if we're, ifthat's how we are with other
people, how are we even open tothe, the holy spirit, telling us
(42:02):
we're doing something wrong?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
far more intimate right yeah than in all areas
right yeah, I mean you'retalking up in your face, up in
your business.
You know he, he has the abilityto get in.
Or like we have no desire forhim to be in right, right,
because we would never letsomebody that we don't trust in
(42:23):
that far right right yeah, and Ithink it's a.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
It's also like a human way of practicing being
under the holy spirit'sleadership, you know, because
it's like when another guy tellsus like, hey, dude, like I see
this thing in your life, it'slike number one, we're going to
be, we're going to go right to afence, but that's what the Holy
Spirit's doing to us all thetime, so it kind of helps, it's
(42:48):
like you know, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
You have that log in your eye.
Let me get the axe real quick.
Calls you on your stuff, man.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, and you know what's crazy I'm thinking too.
It's like it's actually areally loving thing to do.
It's like I see this guy overhere, my friend, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, he is rapidlyapproaching a cliff.
I can see it, he can't see it.
I love this dude.
I don't want this guy to goover the edge, so I'm going to
tell him that's so loving, Wellit's actually the mercy of God,
(43:26):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Right, I mean it's the Holy Spirit showing us how
to operate in the mercy of God.
Dude, it's like when we dostuff right, we're caught up in
something We've believed, a lie.
It's twisted and we're justcaught up in this thing.
Dude, that's just affecting usand everyone around us and it's
(43:48):
like then we get found out andthen we want to be mad because
we got found out.
But it actually I mean honestlyit's- the mercy of god that we
got found out yeah because heloves us and others love us
enough where they care for ourwell-being and are willing to
(44:09):
call us on our crap, even whenwe don't want to believe it or
can't believe it because we'retwisted up.
Right, it's, it's him.
It's him allowing us to get tothat place where you know, or
being exposed yeah, you knowwhat I mean you know it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I was thinking like you mean, you know it's crazy.
I was thinking like how demonicis that?
That when we see somebody whois, you know, doing something
they shouldn't do, and we arelike we're aware of it and we
think like I should saysomething, that oppression, that
is right there is insane.
Yeah, the oppression right therein that moment is like, bro,
(44:52):
you better not say anything, youhave no right.
You know, like just I don'teven know.
Do you know?
There's like a wall of demonicoppression that comes against
you.
That's like don't even say that, like you can't say that to
that person.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
How dare you Dude?
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Wild right Straight up yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Straight up.
You like, feel it like hardcore, you're like, there's no way I
could say that it's like it'swhen you almost have to go into
that thing, that situation,knowing that you're gonna have
all 21 guns pointed at you, dude, right, because they're in
their defense, right, they'renot.
They're not going to be able tosee that.
(45:31):
You're coming at it from thestandpoint of love yeah right,
and that's really what it is.
It's like your heart ismotivated, or should be
motivated, by love.
You care for that person.
You want to bring things totheir attention.
You know a lot of the timeswe're we're nervous or scared to
do it because you know, wedon't know how to maybe present
(45:52):
it in a way where it'll bereceived and I honestly don't
know if there is even a way toeven do that yeah it's more of
just speaking the truth in loveyeah right, and then allowing
the holy spirit to just take itand do with it what he wants,
because you know they initiallyare going to get mad yeah,
you're bringing it up, yeah butit's like it's the mercy of God
(46:14):
that you have even got found out.
He could have let you continuein your sin or your lie or
whatever the situation was, andyou could just walk off a cliff.
Yeah.
But he's trying to get yourattention and say, hey, look at,
stop.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I think like, well, number one, I think I was
just thinking, if you'relistening to this podcast, I
would encourage you to ask theLord is that something I should
do, that I should give a brotherthat I know you know?
Like, let him know, like, hey,because I think, like you have
(46:52):
to.
The right way to do this is tosay to somebody I trust you
enough to give you theopportunity to say something to
me, like I'm telling you rightnow I'm giving you an opening
with me in my life to where,like, if you see me screwing up,
please tell me.
And once you've given thatperson that opening, then then
they're more freely, you know,like they're more willing to
(47:16):
take, to take that opportunity,cause I mean, it is a scary
thing, oh for sure you know.
So, like, if you're listening,pray about that and ask the Lord
, like who should I?
And?
And be careful, obviously,cause you need to do it with
somebody that you really knowloves you.
And then, on the flip side ofthis, I don't think that it's
something that we have to becareful, like just because we
see something in somebody else,we may not have that
(47:39):
relationship with them to saythis, this is not like a.
We can't just fire this nuke ateverybody like you really have
to be friends with the guy,because I could see, you know I
mean I think we've all had itmaybe some random person comes
up and tells us something likeand they have no relationship
with us, so it's just pain.
Yeah, yep, I don't know thatthis person loves me.
(48:01):
All I hear is that they justhit me over the head with a
baseball bat right right, andmaybe they're right, but we
don't have that kind ofrelationship.
Well, there's the truth right,and.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
And then there's the truth in love.
Exactly right, there's thetruth, right.
And then there's the truth inlove.
Exactly Right, there's thetruth.
I mean, truth is going to hurt,whether it's in love or not.
Right, but it's how it'sreceived.
Yeah.
Right, right, and I mean, Icould bro we could speak truth
all day long.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Right.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And just, I mean, we're cutting down trees in a
forest.
You know what I mean, but ifit's not covered in love, right
where I'm exuding the heart ofthe Father, when I'm talking to
somebody, like you know, I mean,come on, let's just get real
for a second.
You know, when somebody is justgiving you lip service, dude,
versus when somebody's heart isactually engaged in the
(48:45):
conversation.
Yeah, there's a distinctdifference in the way that you
feel inside.
Yeah, because it hits you.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, yeah, difference in the way that you
feel inside, yeah, because ithits you.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm thinkingof this is we, we've played
this out with each other and I'mthinking that, like I remember,
you know, like times whenyou've said something to me and
I'm like, like and this iswhat's interesting instead of
like, instead of like me, likebreathing out some sort of like
(49:15):
response, like, oh, yeah, well,like, you know what I mean Like
I go, like, oh, and it's like Igo oh, like this is a guy I
trust, this is a guy who I knowloves me, and he just told me
something hard.
I better, just, I really needto.
You know what I mean.
As opposed to, if it wassomebody else saying it, I would
(49:36):
probably want to attack.
But we have, you know, you havethat connection with another,
with another guy.
It's like spiritually, and youknow this person cares for you.
You're just it, it.
It's like, even though it hurts, like your defenses go down,
yeah, and if you don't have therelationship with somebody,
you're, your defenses are goingto go up like, yeah, you just
attacked me.
You know, like, because youdon't trust the person, or you
(49:59):
know you don't have thatrelationship.
But yeah, I was thinking likewhen you've said things to me, I
just kind of go like it's sortof like you know, it's like yeah
, you're right like, oh, shoot,you know.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah, yeah, but it's a beautiful thing, well, and
we've bombed.
We've bombed plenty of times too, with each other too, where
we've maybe haven't said itquite as much in love as we need
to, or we're a little bit morepointed than necessary, and but
because of that relationshipit's twofold yeah then grace now
operates yeah right, becauseyou're like, that was really
(50:32):
harsh how he said that yeah butbecause we have a relationship,
I can do one of two things, orboth right, I can either do the
same thing and take what yousaid and consider it right, or I
can do that and also tell youlike hey, bro, that was a little
rough man like yeah, I hearwhat you're saying, right you
(50:55):
know, and if you really thinkthere's something there like
I'll, I'll take a look and I'llsee yeah right, but it was just.
It just came across a littlerough yeah and kind of hurt my
feelings a little bit yeah right.
I mean, we even had a situationI don't have to go into details,
but we even had a situation,like months ago, where it was
something like that and it wasthe way that I had responded,
(51:16):
where I was distracted, right,and I wasn't really fully paying
attention to what was beingtalked about, and said something
, and it was a little pointedand insensitive, and you had
gotten quiet for a couple daysand then I came.
I came a couple days later, Isaw you in the office and I was
like, hey, what's up, man, areyou okay?
and I, I think I began toapologize to you for the way
(51:39):
that I said what I said and youjust kind of looked at me and
you were like, yeah, that reallykind of hurt my feelings, right
yeah and that for me wasconfirmation, like okay, yeah,
that's, I need to work on thatarea, because I was a little, I
was a little harsh, right,because when you're really good
friends too, it's like yourdefenses are down too.
(51:59):
It's like, and you're you're alittle you're way more free with
each other, right you know,because inside you're thinking
like shut up, dude, just take iton the chin like
what like stop being a girl,yeah right, or whatever, and
it's, but this wasn't one ofthose situations to do that.
This wasn't that.
It was a serious thing, dude,and it was.
You know their emotions tied toit and everything and it wasn't
a time to be funny.
(52:20):
You know it was, you know.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
But as an example right yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
You want to know what's awesome.
I don't even remember what itwas Like, that's and that's,
that's, but that's the love,that's the love of God and the
love of friendship and the loveof forgiveness.
It's like I, I don't, I promiseyou, I I sort of remember, like
the idea of this, but I don'tremember what the offense was,
which is actually really coolLike yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
It's love covers the multitude of sins.
Yeah, yeah, for sure no, I, Ionly remember because it's it's
it was.
It was enough of us of what wasgoing on in the situation to
leave a lasting memory for me,because it was one of those
milestones where it's like thelord was dealing with me and how
to how to take care of it theright way to talk yeah I need to
(53:09):
go back, I need to apologizeand repent and say look, man,
I'm sorry.
You know it was a learning thingfor me, so it's stuck in there.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
That's cool, that's awesome.
Yeah.
And that's friendship, right?
Yeah, that's true friendship.
We're like uh-oh, maybe Istepped over a line, but then we
go fix it and you know, likewhatever.
But yeah line and.
But then we go fix it and youknow, like whatever, but yeah,
what's the matter with you.
Yeah, that's awesome acrocomandI know I was like bro you
punched me in the nuts and Ididn't know I needed to have my
(53:39):
guard on.
we might need to edit that.
I didn't wear my cup to worktoday, sorry, and on that note.
On that note, we better pray.
(54:00):
Jesus help us.
We better go forward on Sunday.
That's a bad joke right there.
Woo, I just got dizzy.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
We'll edit that one out.
Maybe we could just beep it.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Like we've never had a beep before, like that'd be
cool that would be really cool.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Yeah, I'm going to beep it.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just for fun, or guys.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Just for funsies.
You've got to have the littlebit of risque, dude right.
I mean we don't honestly thinkany girl would listen to this.
Anyways, locker room, but it'sreally close.
Speaker 1 (54:30):
It's super close oh man, this has been great yeah, I
know this has been great yeah,once you um, once you praise out
sweet lord, thanks for today,thanks for um just giving us a
some time to um get into yourword, into just discussing these
(54:55):
things, lord, into learning howto become better men and strong
and courageous.
And just, lord, bless everybodywho's listened today.
Give them courage to follow you, give them courage to be under
your authority and to findfriends who they can walk with
(55:17):
through life that will encouragethem, lead them, correct them
and just push them forward, lord, into following you.
And Lord, we just pray ablessing over everybody's family
who's listening, and just theirwork, their relationships.
Just give them joy today, lord,fill them with your Holy Spirit
(55:40):
and give us all joy In Jesus'name, amen, amen.
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