September 15, 2025 • 37 mins
When Adam Griffiths packed a bag and followed his brother to Dubai he didn’t plan on founding an event agency. However, fatherhood and a hard look at what “trust” means in this market, pushed him to launch Enigma, built on a simple promise: do what you say you’ll do.
In this week’s episode of EventNewsDXB, Adam draws a clear line between live events and experiential and why the win isn’t footfall, it’s connection. He shares how his team designs for engagement and dwell, not just more screens and why success lives in the conversation that happens after. We also dig into a standout case from Jeddah’s Red Sea Film Festival with Netflix - a multi-zone fan experience adapted thoughtfully for local culture.
Adam also talks candidly about building fast without losing the plot: hiring for attitude, keeping the team intentionally lean, qualifying briefs and saying no to race-to-the-bottom procurement.
It’s an honest, practical playbook for event pros in the region: how to protect creativity on tight budgets, use data with purpose and build the kind of trust you can look for in a client.
EventNewsDXB is supported by Warehouse Four and -45dB
Production Credits:
Presented by: Ian Carless
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producers: Ian Carless & Joe Morrison
Produced by: EventNewsDXB & W4 Podcast Studio
Support us!
It takes time and effort to put the EventNewsDXB podcast together and we hope it's worth something to you. If it is, please consider sponsoring the podcast to enable us to keep them coming. Contact us for details.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Event News DXB podcast your
behind-the-scenes look at theevent industry in Dubai, the UAE
and the wider MENA region.
I'm Ian Carlos and each week Isit down with the people shaping
one of the world's most dynamicevent markets, whether you're
an event planner, supplier,agency lead or part of an
in-house team.
I hope that this podcast givesyou some practical takeaways,
(00:23):
some fresh perspectives and adeeper understanding of how
things really get done in one ofthe world's most fast-moving
event markets.
And for season two, I'm superpleased to let you know that
Event News DXB is brought to youby Warehouse 4, probably
Dubai's best independent eventvenue.
Minus 45 dB, the teamtransforming noisy event spaces
(00:44):
into slick, sound-reducedenvironments, from full-size
conference theatres to compactmeeting pods.
Minus 45 dB builds modularspaces that are quiet,
customisable and completelyturnkey, and they're sustainable
too.
Smart design with zero wasteCheck them out at minus45dbcom.
A waste Check them out atminus45dbcom.
(01:09):
When Adam Griffiths packed a bag, followed his brother to Dubai
and stumbled from sports intoevents, he didn't plan on
founding an event agency.
However, fatherhood and a hardlook at what trust means in this
market pushed him to launchEnigma, built on a single
promise do exactly what you sayyou'll do.
In this week's episode of EventNews DXB, adam draws a clear
line between live events andexperiential why the win isn't
(01:32):
footfall, it's connection.
He also shares how his teamdesigns for engagement and dwell
time, not just more screens,and why success lives in the
conversation that happens after.
We also dig into a standoutcase from Jeddah's Red Sea Film
Festival with Netflix amulti-zone fan experience
carefully adapted for localculture.
Adam also talks candidly aboutbuilding his business at a
(01:56):
breakneck speed, hiring forattitude, keeping teams
intentionally lean and saying noto briefs that have all the
hallmarks of therace-to-the-bottom culture that
prevails all too often withprocurement-driven briefs.
It's an honest and practicalplaybook for event pros in the
region, so let's get into it.
You're listening to the EventNews DXV podcast, adam.
(02:27):
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Good to be here, I'm going to dowhat we always do with every
guest start right at thebeginning and say how did you
get into events and how did youend up in Dubai?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Briefly, good question yeah, so for me I've
been in Dubai maybe 12, 13 years, obviously from the UK.
Yeah, was living inHertfordshire with my brother,
did a ski season in near ChateauFrance Swiss border, came back,
played a summer of cricket andthen my brother got an
opportunity to work at the ElksClub, Okay, and I was like
(02:57):
where's the Elks Club?
And he was like in Dubai.
Getting the map out, yeah, yeah,I was like where's Dubai?
Let's have a look.
Took me about 20 minutes, kindof like, well, I've got no
responsibilities here, I've gotno ties here, let's give it a go
, I'll come with you.
And he moved out in the January.
I moved out in the February.
I'd got an interview withSports City for when I landed,
(03:19):
got it, thankfully, and thenthat was it.
And then that was it.
We were away.
In terms of events, mybackground was largely into
sports management et cetera, butstarted doing some of the
events at Sport City the leagues, the tournaments and stuff and
kind of just fell into itorganically and then got a bit
of a buzz for it, enjoyed it.
It's fair to say it's probablynot definitely for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's intense at times , yeah and that's how I first
got into it, I suppose.
Yeah, now you mentioned justbefore we started the podcast,
it's been a tumultuous couple ofyears with starting Enigma, so
let's just dig right in at thestart there.
If I can take you back to thoseearly days, yeah, yeah, what
motivated you to start Enigmaand what gap in the market did
you see that you thought youcould fill?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think the honest answer there is.
I had my first son, my firstchild sorry, in 2019.
And then I thought okay, youknow shit, I've got to sort
myself out.
Now, like I've got, I canbarely look after myself.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I've got responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I've got to look after this human.
So, and then we went straightinto COVID.
You know, obviously the eventindustry was not a good place to
be during that time.
No, tell me about it.
Ultimately, my family had to gohome and I moved into a you
know shoebox apartment in townsquare and was kind of thinking,
okay, I've basically I've gotto make this work somehow,
otherwise I'm going back toengland and I desperately didn't
(04:34):
want to do that.
Came out firing from that whereI was and then had built up a
good kind of profile of clientsand felt like I was always kind
of wanting something for myselfand kind of thought do you know
what?
Let's just let's give it a go.
It's maybe a bit old school,but I felt like there was a gap
in the market for genuine,honest work.
I feel like the region here issuper saturated in terms of
(04:58):
agencies, but someone who can,you can look in the eye, in the
white of their eyes, and trustthat they're going to do what
they say.
Ultimately, that was kind ofwhere we started.
We were very blessed to haveNew Balance came with us from
the start.
We had some stuff from AlphaTame come from the start and
then it just kind of snowballedfrom there really.
But I thought looking back oh,it's going to be, this will be
(05:19):
great owning a business and youknow I'll be able to do what I
want and have time, anddefinitely none of that true.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now there's a difference, isn't there, between
live events and experiential,and you've very much gone down
the experiential route.
Obviously, this podcast is forevent professionals and the like
, but for the layman, or perhapssomebody who's new to the to
the event industry orexperiential industry, what's
the difference between the two?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
so for me, live- events would be where you would
have a, you know, like a, aconcert or uh, anything with a
kind of larger scale audiencewhere someone is delivering
something of scale.
For me, experiential is is allabout brands connecting with
consumers.
So you know, that can be donein various different ways, but
(06:03):
for me it's making sure that theconsumers have an experience,
they take away some memories,you know, and they feel more
connected, you know, ultimatelyto the brand.
I think would be kind of howyou know, I would explain it in
a nutshell yeah, it's a lot moretouchy feely, isn't?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
it, I think the whole experiential side.
You know we'll go on later totalk about how you actually
measure that, because obviouslywith events it's a little bit
more linear, isn't it?
You can measure against numberof attendees how many tickets
you sold, et cetera, et cetera.
But with experiential it's alittle bit more subtle, isn't?
it but we'll come onto that Now.
You mentioned and I just wantto sort of spend a little bit of
(06:43):
time on this on starting thebusiness, because obviously
you're only two years in, butyou've come a long way in those
two years.
You've gone from yourself,obviously, and now you're up to
what?
25 employees.
So how have you been able tomanage that growth so quickly?
Good question.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I would ask myself that every day.
To be honest, no, listen, Ithink for us, when we've gone
through processes of addingstaff and key roles, we've
interviewed I don't even knowhow many people, 100 people,
hundreds of people, it feelslike, Because for me it was
about getting skill setsimportant, but the right person
(07:18):
is the most important, becausethen that person can then be
molded or evolve into something.
But if they've got the rightattitude, then that for me is a
key.
I guess recruitment would be oneof the main focuses for me in
terms of getting there creatingan environment where people and
particularly I believe thisstrongly in creative, creating
(07:39):
an environment where people areconfident to come up with crazy
stuff.
Environment where people areconfident to come up with crazy
stuff, confident to makemistakes and empowered to just
kind of get on with their, youknow, day to day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I think HR is a superimportant aspect, isn't it?
And, as you said, I think youcan.
You can teach people the hardskills you know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You can teach them how to press buttons, how to
fill in forms and the rest of it, but those soft skills, the
people skills and the you know,being being intuitive, being
inquisitive, they're much harderto find.
Look, I don't think I meanprobably more so nowadays people
would pick events as a career.
A lot of people, if we'rehonest, accidentally end up in
events and it's it's it'sattitude, it's hard work and
it's grit that ultimatelymatters, because you know, it is
(08:22):
not easy in any capacity.
But, yeah, no, I would agree,we have a bit of a joke actually
, we in our within enigma, thatwe, we don't necessarily have
direct hr, if you will.
Yeah, you kind of have a bit ofa joke that if you need hr,
leave, which is a joke, andobviously we don't mean it.
But in the context of come andspeak to me about it, we'll
(08:43):
either figure it out or we won't.
It's an interesting approachactually, because and speak to
me about it we'll either figureit out or we won't.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It's an interesting approach, actually, because you
talk to a lot of business ownersand one of the first things
that will say as they grow theirteam is the inordinate amount
of time that they spend on hr.
Yeah, and those little thingslike I don't know, my cat died,
I need time off, or I've got acold, or I need to do this and
that.
So you're doing that yourself.
Still, no, you no, we.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
so we've got a software that works and we've
got an admin team, butultimately, like you know, for
me the size of the business isso important to not go bigger
than it is now right, because atthe minute I'm in the culture,
I can help control it or notcontrol it, influence it, and
and I can know the staff andknow maybe what makes them tick
and know if their cat died or oranything you know, and then
(09:25):
it's for me it's much more of ahuman approach.
Like you know, if you need abit of time off, of course we'll
all rally around to give you abit of time off.
But it's funny because mysister works in England still
and I talk to her about thingsand she's like you can never
come home.
She's like the HR, the policies, she works for the council.
So it's, you know, all of theseVery structured very regimented
(09:46):
.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, and it's red tape.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It feels like the opposite of what we're trying to
build, which is quite fluid andaround the people.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, that's an interesting approach as a
business owner, because if yousay that you're going to stay at
a certain level, certainly interms of manpower, I mean
obviously that has a knock-oneffect in the amount of business
that you're able to generate.
Yep, you know, and I guess youknow, some entrepreneurs would
say, oh, why limit yourself?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, what's the thought process behind that?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Because I mean, you know, you come across this a lot
in life, don't you?
Or I think I do.
Certainly, the older I get, isyou know, I certainly ask myself
the question of when.
Is enough enough?
Yeah, yes, is enough enough?
Yeah, yes.
I think some of us would whatwe think we'd like to earn
millions and millions and sailoff into the distance.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But actually what we're, what would keep us happy,
is often a lot less yeah, Ithink so, and I think what I've
learned in the last two but alsofive years of just sort of
really when I started thinkingabout it is more what not to do.
You know, like scaling quicklyokay is super challenging, but
if you scale too fast and youdon't have the infrastructure to
(10:51):
support it, it will all falldown.
Also, I feel that there's noneed to be greedy.
I always say I'm not greedy.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I feel like we're blessedto have the clients we have.
Right, we're looking at a lot ofQ4 and saying, okay, done, we
can't take any more on, it'simportant to just deliver now.
And that goes back torelationships and trust with
(11:12):
clients.
And then I always go back tokind of, how hard did I work to
get this client?
So now I need to keep thisclient, retain this client.
That's one part of it.
The second part of it is I'vegot a two-year-old little girl
and a six-year-old boy and Ispend a huge amount of time
working and and you know itbeing in and out of saudi and in
(11:33):
and out of qatar, and also Iwant to be able to, uh, have
some balance in my life.
And then the last point I wouldsay, probably on this number of
25 that I have kind offascinated around in my head is
I think that with the tech thatyou've got now and the world,
the way the world's connected,how ai is coming and changing
everything, you can compete withanyone.
Yeah, you know, like we'reworking with some incredible
(11:55):
brands and we're a you know, Iwould say we're quite a young
team, fresh team, but we, we cancompete and it works.
So I just don't think we needto change it too much.
You know Well, you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I had David Balfour on from Lightblue recently and
he went through a similarprocess with Lightblue.
He went from, I think he said,having 50-plus clients on board
and then scaled it back to 25.
And there's lots of learningsthat you can take away from that
, obviously just being able toserve the service, the clients
that you have better.
Yeah, and, as you rightly pointout, retain the clients.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean, we all know it costs a lot more to go out
there and get a new client thanit does to keep your existing
client no for sure, andespecially in the market now,
when it's like a lot of it'sgoing more and more into like
procurement briefs and itbecomes a big challenge because
you don't necessarily or you'renot allowed to have direct comms
with the marketing or whoever'stheir brand, sales, etc.
(12:52):
So you end up thinking, okay,I'm dealing with procurement,
this is just going to become,you know, 10, go to the bottom,
race to the bottom in terms ofnumbers and then you just you
don't want to be a part of that.
Yeah, much better to not retain, because the retainer model
isn't, doesn't really exist inin events, but work with them,
because you then you know like,you know we, we know what new
(13:13):
balance's calendar is, we knowwhat netflix are doing, like,
because they have relationshipswith them and then you don't
have to go through that pitchprocess every single time, which
is, you, you know, burnscreative.
If you don't win it there's,you know, negative people will
get a bit down about it andstuff.
So, yeah, for me, yeah, veryimportant that for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's interesting, isn't it?
Because, I think you know, inthe course of doing these
podcasts, what I've realized isthat the industry seems to be
quite cyclical in terms of itsattitude towards how to win
business and the wholerelationship thing, and what I
sort of gleaned over the lastthree to six months is that we
seem to be in a period now wherewe're slipping back towards
(13:53):
procurement and the lowestcommon denominator, rather than
building proper relationshipswith clients where you're in as
a partner and not just as aprovider.
Yeah, from your experience, howhas that brand experience of
the live event industry changedin the sort of couple of years
the last, certainly, that yourlast two years?
Has there been a change and, ifso, where's that been, other
(14:14):
than obviously?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
what we've just talked about.
No, I think it.
I think it's changed.
I think, if I look at thelandscape six months ago in
regards ai, and even threemonths ago, how quickly this is
evolving and changing, whetherit's the pitch process or the
rfb process, or whether it'sbeing able to turn things around
quicker for live, that is ahuge change in it.
(14:36):
But then we are, I feel, anywaywe are now working towards a
bit of a shift where people arequestioning what is real good
number of our brands that wework, with the minute of saying,
look, we don't want to work init.
If this is ai, we don't want it, which is an interesting
perspective.
But because I feel like theywant to go back to, you know,
protecting the human nature ofan event and making sure that
(14:57):
you, you, you know you have aphysical element to it where you
, you know you can, like we saidearlier, look, feel, touch it.
So I feel like, yeah, thatwould, for me, would be one of
the biggest changes.
I would say yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So how do you manage the new business then?
I mean, obviously you've gotthe relationships already with
the, with your existing clients.
Do you find yourself having toknock on doors and be very
speculative and go out and reachto people who you think you
know might speak the same kindof language as you, or do you
rely more on, you know, peoplecoming to you with briefs For me
?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
it's all about relationships.
This market is so driven onthat and I don't think we've
done a cold piece of sales sincewe opened.
To be honest, it's always beenrelationships, referrals,
delivering.
I'm a big advocate for sharingyour story, sharing what you do,
celebrating your wins.
You know whether that's onsocials or on your website or
(15:45):
you know in your friends'networks Then that the
consequence of that has been agrowth in terms of it, and
that's one thing I love aboutDubai, by the way, is people
celebrate each other's wins here, I feel much more, and you know
LinkedIn as a platform hereversus the UK is completely
night and day, I feel.
Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, I mean in terms ofactivity, the way that people
(16:05):
will post regularly.
I feel, the way that I feel themarket here will celebrate your
wins For me.
I love to see other agenciesdoing cool stuff.
For me, it's inspiring, it'ssuper interesting.
I also like to see you know,like the growth of any
entertainment agencies or othersuppliers.
I feel you know we should alljust and I feel like that is
(16:27):
what happens we should all kindof celebrate it and grow
together, because the market is,it's, white-holed at the minute
.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Now you've produced some pretty high profile
experiential activities so far.
What's been your favourite sofar, what stands out for you and
what really sort of embodiesthe DNA of Enigma?
Good chance for you to give acase study, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I mean the immediate one that jumps to my head is
when we created a brand momentfor Netflix in Jeddah around Red
Sea Film Festival last year.
Yeah, so many challenges withit in terms of trying to find a
venue that worked, dealing withlike teams, cross-functional
between various differentagencies, but for me, that would
be the standout one.
That was three day fanexperience.
(17:08):
It got extended to anotherweekend.
We had 14 kind of zones withinit.
Some local titles werecelebrated.
We had a bit on Wednesday.
We had Stranger Things Love,stranger things, love is blind
spl, which was a big one for meand it was.
We had a bridgerton cafe andseeing how netflix, or how we
(17:29):
worked with netflix on thecreative to fuse that into saudi
culture, was really, reallycool.
They gave us a good amount offreedom.
Lots of challenges becauseyou're dealing with Netflix as a
brand, then you're dealing with, you know, the Bridgerton brand
, stranger Things brand, theWednesday brand.
So lots of intricacies in termsof how we would bring it
together, get access to content,etc.
(17:50):
But for me that's uh, that'sdefinitely one that kind of I
felt really put us on the map, Iwould say, in terms of
experiential and experiences and, uh, everything around.
Yeah, because I think, goingback to the challenges that we
faced in saudi, I think we wentthrough nine venues we went
through 24 sets of renders orsomething, and it was just, you
(18:12):
know, one of those ones whereyou're just thinking, oh my god,
this is ever going to happen.
Yeah, but we, but we got itacross the line and it was, uh,
something that we were all superproud of, yeah, so now,
obviously the visual element ofexperiential is one part of it,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
but how do you connect emotionally with
audiences?
What, what do you infuse intoyour proposals for clients that
really tick that emotional box?
Yeah because, at the end of theday, isn't it?
That's what?
That's what people are comingfor and that's what, when they
go away, they will talk.
They will talk about the mostthey won't necessarily.
Oh yes, sure, they'll have somenice shots for Instagram, but
it's that emotional connection,isn't it that, really?
(18:45):
I think, anyway, when it comesto experiential makes, or breaks
.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No, I would agree.
We always sit in a room whenwe're unpacking a brief and we
kind of say, okay, who's thetarget audience here?
Like, out of the 10 people orwhatever that work on this,
who's the target audience?
Okay, come up with an idea, doyou engage with it and then,
very quickly, if it's no, moveon, go to the next one.
(19:11):
I think the other importantthing is making sure that you do
understand that consumerdirectly from end to end, so you
know, whether it's a shoelaunch or a car launch, who is
going to be buying this car.
Like, ultimately, everyone'strying to sell something is how
I feel right, so it's makingthat process feel super organic
and a nice experience for them.
But I feel that for me, themost important there is, like
(19:32):
the detail of the consumer andif you understand it, I think
for us, our decks are superstrong at the minute,
particularly, we are trying tofind ways to animate things,
keep everything moving.
I feel like more and moreattention spans are shorter and
shorter.
A hundred slide deck is adisaster for me.
(19:53):
I think the best pitch is 15minutes and you're just really
punchy to the point.
To be honest, I also think if Iwas to say to the point, to be
honest, I also think if I alwayssay to the guys, before we
pitch, close down the laptop.
You've got like 45 seconds,explain it.
And at the start, try andexplain that in 45 seconds
because and then you also knowif you've got them or not.
Yeah, and then you know.
I guess the other thing which Istrongly feel about when we're
(20:16):
putting things in front ofclients is like teams calls are
great, zoom calls, whatever theyare great and they serve a good
purpose.
But being in the room with theclient is so much better because
you know, you pick up on bodylanguage, you know humor,
terrible jokes, whatever.
You can thread it all in andand build that rapport with them
.
Yeah, I think that's anotherbig difference for me when it
(20:38):
comes to putting things in frontof clients and making a
difference.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, and just shifting tack ever so slightly.
When you decided to set upEnigma, what was the most
significant risk that you feelyou took at that time?
Because, obviously you know,working for yourself and running
your own business isn't foreverybody, is it?
Yeah, there are a lot of peoplewho just prefer the safety of a
(21:04):
, of a salaried job, and the youknow and the comfort that your
salary is going to hit youraccount at the end of of every
month.
As you and I both know, whenyou have your own business,
that's not always the case.
You're often the last personyeah, not the first.
So when you were deciding to dothis, what?
What do you think was the themost significant risk that you
perceived?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
it's funny, you know.
I go back to conversation withmy wife.
We were on holiday and I saidto her like I think about doing
this thing and we maybe we'll gofor it.
And then she was like it was aliterally about a five minute
conversation and she was likeyou, have you already made your
mind up, so let's just do it.
And then probably the biggestrisk at that point was like oh,
holy shit, what about schoolfees?
(21:38):
What about all this upfrontcost?
Like there wasn't a biginvestment in it, it was, you
know, let's go for it, let'sroll the dice and see what we
can do.
But yeah, for me, the the bigrisk is what I feel every day is
I feel like, you know, I'm theresponsibility.
I would say like, as we'vegrown, you know, I obviously
have the responsibility of myfamily, but from a wider
(21:58):
perspective, you know, there's25 people that are relying on us
being able to deliver and be asuccessful agency and some of
those have got kids and familiesthat depend on them.
So I think the responsibilityof it.
But I guess that's the mainmotivator, to be honest, because
if you, you know, I always saylike I'm stressing about
December or I'm stressing aboutNovember or something coming up.
(22:18):
You know, I always say like I'mstressing about December or I'm
stressing about November orsomething coming up, but I
always kind of say to myselflike, but if I don't go in today
and do these three meetings andwin this or deliver that, it
doesn't really matter.
You know, go one step at a timeand and do it.
But yeah, it's uh.
I would tell you it is intense,you would know, and it's
relentless.
Relentless, like the markethere is.
(22:39):
Relentless because you'realways on, like I've took my
watch off for this.
My wife makes me have no watchdays on the weekends, which is
uh, which is funny as well.
Oh, I don't know that.
But yeah, not not beingconnected is embarrassingly a
stress to not, but I guess it's,it's part of the fun, like we
talked about, you know, justbefore we started about maybe
going back to england orsomething.
(23:00):
But I would never survivebecause the chaos of the middle
east is what I live for.
Like, I come in every day andit's just every day is different
.
The energy that the team havegot and you know, the excitement
that we've got for stuff comingup in q4 is is what keeps me
going.
I think yeah for sure it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You say that I, one of my partners in, in the other
business that I have warehousefor, which is the event venue,
we used to work in asia togetherand again, you know we've
laughed about this many timesthat we said that he and I are
sort of two peas in a pod, inthe sense that we, we, you know
you move to markets like thatand there's a lot of gray area,
yeah, whereas in the uk and theus and more established markets,
there's a lot of gray area,yeah, whereas in the UK and the
(23:38):
US and more established markets,there's less gray area.
The rules are the rules.
It's red tape, you know, inplaces in, certainly in
Southeast Asia and to here to acertain extent, although it has
leveled off a bit over the last10 to 15 years but there's a
gray area, you know, and somepeople thrive in that gray area.
Some people like playing inthat gray area.
I know, I do, I know I do.
It doesn't bother me, it excitesme, just that opportunity.
(23:58):
You seem to be the same.
I will ask you this, though asa business owner, do you find it
lonely?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes, yes in a short answer would be Look, I've
started working with.
I'm very blessed that myfather-in-law had some very high
profile jobs across the eventindustry advertising and I've
recently started kind of workingwith him in kind of a
mentorship role.
Because you know, I'm veryhonest, you know all the time
for good or for bad, and I feelthat often, day in, day out, I'm
(24:26):
still figuring it out like I donot know.
You know necessarily what I'mdoing at times and I think this
is part of the fun and the ride.
But I would now I'm kind oflike five or six sessions in
with him and you know there's noreal agenda to it, but he just
sort sort of will unpick thingsfrom my brain and then make me
open up and think, oh okay, yeah, yeah, that's definitely a good
(24:46):
way to approach it.
But it's that sounding board tobe able to just bounce ideas
Like we've.
One of the challenges withgrowing really fast is having
structure.
We've definitely got goodstructure in place now where
I've got some key people in inleadership positions that I can
bounce ideas off.
But you know, ultimately Iguess the truth is at three
o'clock in the morning when I'mthinking about payroll, the buck
(25:08):
stops with you, stops with me.
Yeah, literally so, but yeah,no, I think that's one thing I'm
learning is the importance ofsharing it.
You know, like tyler is a goodfriend of mine, we would chat
about a lot of things that wehave in common and share,
because, yeah, otherwise itbecomes quite stressful, and uh,
and relentless is a word I keepusing, but that's how I feel it
(25:29):
is and, like you said, thehonesty that comes through.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think you know again.
You stressed at the verybeginning that you've only been
two years into this business.
How do you stave off theimposter syndrome?
I embrace it, I think.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Because you do think of them.
But then I definitely think andhave that often at times.
But then I do look around and Ido check what we've done and I
do think we've done stuff withBMW and stuff with Bentley and
New Balance and I just thinkthere should be an element where
we feel super proud of whatwe've achieved in the in the two
(26:03):
years of chaos.
But, yeah, I also feel that theapproach to just remain humble
and not, you know, ever get toobig for your boobs this is
around the staying around thenumber that we are and learning
the no's and all of these thingswhich I'm kind of getting to
now but I feel like, uh, yeah,that's that's important.
But yeah, days I do come in andgo what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
have you reached a turning point yet in the
business where you think, okay,I'm comfortable with this.
We, you know, both from aobviously from a financial
standpoint, yeah, but just froma personal standpoint as well
where you can, you know, likeyou said, take the time to look
back at what you've deliveredand gone.
You know what we did good there.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I think it's important.
I think it's so important tocelebrate the wins, because not
everyone gets to come and seethe live event.
It's so important that the teamall get that buzz of, oh my God
, we achieved this, we did thisand we all played a part in it.
Yeah, definitely.
But then you know, as thenature of the business it's, you
know, bang on to the next, onto the next, on to the next and,
to be honest, like I said, Ilove it.
(27:00):
I do love that part of it andthe competitive nature of it
like I'm, you know, obviouslyplayed a lot of sport growing up
and whatever, so it's uh.
That competitive nature ofknowing who we're competing
against and how they are leadingagencies, some of them are top
top and even to be at the tableon occasion is awesome for us,
(27:21):
especially in the time thatwe've been doing this.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Now, a key, very important aspect of any
experiential activity is how tomeasure success, isn't it?
How do you guys do that?
I mean, what KPIs do you set upwith the client pre-activity,
by which you're going to measurewhether or not that the event's
been successful or not?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
yeah, good question.
Um, look, I think data playsmuch more of a role in it
nowadays, right, um?
And we?
For me, I always feel that we,when we work closely with pr or
social, it's a lot easier tointegrate like a almost like a
holistic, holistic outcome of tobe able to go back to the
(28:02):
client with something tangible.
But, yeah, for me I would sayit's, it's making sure that,
from our perspective, theexperiences is is obviously the
key.
But shit, answer this.
Sorry, I need to go back.
Yeah, it's a hard question thatit is, isn't it?
(28:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
it is.
How do you measure the KPIs?
yeah, because what you know it'svery varied, because the KPIs
are like but I think that's all,because it's so difficult, I
think you know, for me, it'seven more important to establish
how you measure success in thefirst place.
So, for example, I'll give youan example from the podcast
business.
For example, we specialize inproducing branded podcasts for a
client, you know, and one ofthe first things I mean I have a
(28:44):
client at the moment, acybersecurity client.
They're based out of Singapore,and one of the things we said
right at the very beginning wasyou know, what do you want to
achieve from this podcast?
Please don't tell me you want tobe the next Joe Rogan, because
if you do, I can't help you, butif you tell me that you want to
reach 20% of, you know, thecybersecurity industry in APAC.
(29:06):
I can help you with that Right,so I think think it.
You know it's very important toset, set the stall out and then
that way nobody is disappointed.
Yeah, so, and I appreciate.
Yeah, it's a very difficultyeah isn't it with with
experiential, because so much ofit is.
That are those intangiblemoments it's that you know.
It's that touchy-feely element.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, and also, you don't necessarily get the.
You don't get oversight of alot of those intangible moments.
Right, you know you go to anevent or you go to a concert or
wherever you go to, you takeaway a memory with your wife or
your girlfriend or whatever.
The brand doesn't necessarilyknow that.
It's just becomes part of, uh,part of their experience.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So how important is moving product?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
as a KPI.
Yeah, Look.
I think, it's important, but Ithink if it's a focus, if you
are just focused on commercials,then I think you've missed the
mark, because you would buildbrand loyalty, you would build
brand affinity throughexperiences, through
experiential, and a consequenceof that would be the, the
(30:09):
product purchase, whatever thatwould be.
For me, that's the.
The important part isunderstanding the, the journey
to the sale, rather thanconcentrating on the commercials
, because that is often a kpithat we have is, you know, so
it's x amount of dirham sold orx amount of test drives or x
amount of this, but for us, it'sabout understanding how you get
(30:32):
that person in the car is theimportant part.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And following on from that, then I mean, obviously a
key part of what you do ispeople in person attending
whatever it is that you'reorganizing.
But then how important is itfor that experience then to have
a life after the actual day, oror days, of the activity itself
?
How many, how many of yourbriefs have that in encompassed?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
um, yeah, look, I think it's.
I think a few of them woulddefinitely, because the
longevity of it would wouldwould need to linger, um, live
on.
Sorry, from our perspective ismore about delivering in the
moment.
That's the key for us is wewould deliver in the moment and
then everything else would be aconsequence of it.
Post.
I feel that's not really arehugely included within our
(31:19):
briefs that we get.
It would be, unless it's like aretained client that you're
working with regularly.
But for us it's about nailingthat moment, making sure the
consumer gets that experience.
For us, it's about nailing thatmoment making sure the consumer
gets that experience.
And then you know, like I saidbefore, the loyalty, the
affinity then comes from thatmoment and with that comes the
sales and the various differentbits with the brand?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Are you finding there's any industries in
particular that you're workingwith and working across that
have much more of an affinitytowards the experiential space
rather than others?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
yeah, I would say retail definitely is, because
there's a lot of.
For me, there's a focus around,you know, yes, getting people
to the stores or getting peopleto.
You know the stands, but thenengaging whilst they're there,
not just being about thecommercials.
Uh, automotive, more and more isaround, you know, not looking
at it as an isolated launchevent, looking at it as a, as
(32:14):
more of a, an experience over aperiod of time, um, and, to be
honest, I think most most of thestuff that we work in is is
leaning more towards that.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
If I'm honest, yeah, looking ahead where do you think
the future of experientialmarketing and brand experiences
is going?
Where do you think it's heading?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Look, I think people first is where it will head, in
my opinion.
I don't think it's that.
There were definitely a lotmore data and analytics that
come into it.
We will find ways, or arefinding ways, to measure the
success of these experiences.
Experiences, uh, but for me itwill always or I hope it is
(32:54):
always around um humanengagement, um giving people
that moment, giving people thatyou know, bite-sized piece of
content that they then want toshare family or on socials.
Um, for me, that's uh, that'swhere I think it will continue
to go into and um and evolve,yeah and a couple of more
questions just before we we wrapup.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Um, if you were advising a young entrepreneur
starting out an agency today,what's, what's some of the
advice you'd give?
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
No, I dunno.
Um, what would advice would Igive?
Look, I think that for me Iwould go back to it's hard, hard
work and a good, positiveattitude to hard work, grit,
determination.
You know, for me it was, youknow, understanding why I'm
(33:57):
doing this if I go back to mykids and my wife, and then that
is your driver for it.
So you've got to keep going andkeep moving forward.
Um, but yeah, other than that,and I actually feel like the,
the new generation, maybe get abit of a bad rap at the minute,
to be honest, I think we've gotsome that work so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So it's, yeah, I think for me often is you know,
don't be afraid to fail.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, I know over the yearsI've come up with 101 excuses
not to do things.
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been
afraid of failure things.
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been
afraid of failure.
Yeah, but uh, but I think, youknow, I've managed to temper
that over the years, you know,certainly, even if I go back
(34:35):
right to when I I moved awayfrom the uk to to hong kong, you
know I was.
I went there for six weeks anduh, yeah, and that was it.
And the biggest question I hadat the end of that was should I
stay in hong kong or should I goback to the UK?
And then, of course, in therethere's a fear of failure and
obviously what stopped me wasjust you know well, I don't ever
want to say what, if, but it'sa very strong emotion that fear
(34:59):
of failure.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I think also, one other thing that I
definitely try to do day to dayis, you know, and this goes back
to football would be keep itsimple, like I often think that
the industry here gets so overcomplicated with it, whatever it
, whatever reasons, or you knowthings that come in and you know
outside factors that would play, but I always just think the
simple thread of what you'retrying to achieve, always
(35:22):
understand the start and thefinish, and keeping it simple is
so important for us.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think and penultimately, I mean I've asked
every guest this I'm a bigmusic fan.
I use music for all kinds ofthings, mostly just to relax at
the end of a stressful week or astressful day.
I can imagine you must be amusic fan as well.
Yep, what's on your playlist atthe moment?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
oh my god, that's a question eh, oh, my spotify no
judgment by my spotify playlistmight be the most random it.
It would go from BackstreetBoys all the way to Biggie and
everything in between, if I'mhonest.
But in the car I don't have theradio on.
I don't have anything on in thecar when I'm driving.
I do probably quite a lot ofthinking when I'm in the car
(36:06):
because you're at work and it'shectic.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You walk through the interruptions.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
The kids come and they need your attention.
So when I'm in the car it's alittle bit of peace.
So yeah, but yeah, I don't knowthe guys are going to be
laughing here about.
Yeah, but backstreet boys tobiggie would be a fair and
everything in between brilliantand finally, adam, what's next
for you and enigma?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, tomorrow we're going to.
Riyadh.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
We've got a Wednesday season two, part two launch
with Netflix next week in Riyadh, which is super exciting.
Like I said, q4 is busy, butbeyond that, for me now it's
stability is the most importantthing now, like building the
brand.
You know, I guess I think we'veprobably come up a little bit
under the radar and many peoplewouldn't have heard of us, which
(36:51):
I'm cool with and okay with.
But for me now it's okay, cool,we've got here, we've done a
really good job.
Now let's get some stability,you know, get the roots down,
make sure that what we'redelivering is ultimately best in
class and just keep thatconsistency going.
That's probably what next askme on, uh, tuesday or wednesday
(37:12):
next week when I'm in riyadh I,I don't know, eh well, adam,
it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Event news dxp is brought toyou by Warehouse 4, probably
Dubai's best independent eventvenue, and Minus 45 DB, the team
transforming noisy event spacesinto slick, sound-reduced
(37:40):
environments.
The podcast was presented bymyself, ian Carlos, the studio
engineer and editor was RoyDeMonte, the executive producer
was myself and Joe Morrison, andthis podcast was produced by W4
Podcast Studio Dubai, and ifyou haven't done so already,
please do click that follow orsubscribe button.
(38:00):
We'll see you next time.
You're listening to the Event News DXB podcast your
behind-the-scenes look at theevent industry in Dubai, the UAE
and the wider MENA region.
I'm Ian Carlos and each week Isit down with the people shaping
one of the world's most dynamicevent markets, whether you're
an event planner, supplier,agency lead or part of an
in-house team.
I hope that this podcast givesyou some practical takeaways,
(00:23):
some fresh perspectives and adeeper understanding of how
things really get done in one ofthe world's most fast-moving
event markets.
And for season two, I'm superpleased to let you know that
Event News DXB is brought to youby Warehouse 4, probably
Dubai's best independent eventvenue.
Minus 45 dB, the teamtransforming noisy event spaces
(00:44):
into slick, sound-reducedenvironments, from full-size
conference theatres to compactmeeting pods.
Minus 45 dB builds modularspaces that are quiet,
customisable and completelyturnkey, and they're sustainable
too.
Smart design with zero wasteCheck them out at minus45dbcom.
A waste Check them out atminus45dbcom.
(01:09):
When Adam Griffiths packed a bag, followed his brother to Dubai
and stumbled from sports intoevents, he didn't plan on
founding an event agency.
However, fatherhood and a hardlook at what trust means in this
market pushed him to launchEnigma, built on a single
promise do exactly what you sayyou'll do.
In this week's episode of EventNews DXB, adam draws a clear
line between live events andexperiential why the win isn't
(01:32):
footfall, it's connection.
He also shares how his teamdesigns for engagement and dwell
time, not just more screens,and why success lives in the
conversation that happens after.
We also dig into a standoutcase from Jeddah's Red Sea Film
Festival with Netflix amulti-zone fan experience
carefully adapted for localculture.
Adam also talks candidly aboutbuilding his business at a
(01:56):
breakneck speed, hiring forattitude, keeping teams
intentionally lean and saying noto briefs that have all the
hallmarks of therace-to-the-bottom culture that
prevails all too often withprocurement-driven briefs.
It's an honest and practicalplaybook for event pros in the
region, so let's get into it.
You're listening to the EventNews DXV podcast, adam.
(02:27):
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Good to be here, I'm going to dowhat we always do with every
guest start right at thebeginning and say how did you
get into events and how did youend up in Dubai?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Briefly, good question yeah, so for me I've
been in Dubai maybe 12, 13 years, obviously from the UK.
Yeah, was living inHertfordshire with my brother,
did a ski season in near ChateauFrance Swiss border, came back,
played a summer of cricket andthen my brother got an
opportunity to work at the ElksClub, Okay, and I was like
(02:57):
where's the Elks Club?
And he was like in Dubai.
Getting the map out, yeah, yeah,I was like where's Dubai?
Let's have a look.
Took me about 20 minutes, kindof like, well, I've got no
responsibilities here, I've gotno ties here, let's give it a go
, I'll come with you.
And he moved out in the January.
I moved out in the February.
I'd got an interview withSports City for when I landed,
(03:19):
got it, thankfully, and thenthat was it.
And then that was it.
We were away.
In terms of events, mybackground was largely into
sports management et cetera, butstarted doing some of the
events at Sport City the leagues, the tournaments and stuff and
kind of just fell into itorganically and then got a bit
of a buzz for it, enjoyed it.
It's fair to say it's probablynot definitely for everyone.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's intense at times , yeah and that's how I first
got into it, I suppose.
Yeah, now you mentioned justbefore we started the podcast,
it's been a tumultuous couple ofyears with starting Enigma, so
let's just dig right in at thestart there.
If I can take you back to thoseearly days, yeah, yeah, what
motivated you to start Enigmaand what gap in the market did
you see that you thought youcould fill?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I think the honest answer there is.
I had my first son, my firstchild sorry, in 2019.
And then I thought okay, youknow shit, I've got to sort
myself out.
Now, like I've got, I canbarely look after myself.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I've got responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I've got to look after this human.
So, and then we went straightinto COVID.
You know, obviously the eventindustry was not a good place to
be during that time.
No, tell me about it.
Ultimately, my family had to gohome and I moved into a you
know shoebox apartment in townsquare and was kind of thinking,
okay, I've basically I've gotto make this work somehow,
otherwise I'm going back toengland and I desperately didn't
(04:34):
want to do that.
Came out firing from that whereI was and then had built up a
good kind of profile of clientsand felt like I was always kind
of wanting something for myselfand kind of thought do you know
what?
Let's just let's give it a go.
It's maybe a bit old school,but I felt like there was a gap
in the market for genuine,honest work.
I feel like the region here issuper saturated in terms of
(04:58):
agencies, but someone who can,you can look in the eye, in the
white of their eyes, and trustthat they're going to do what
they say.
Ultimately, that was kind ofwhere we started.
We were very blessed to haveNew Balance came with us from
the start.
We had some stuff from AlphaTame come from the start and
then it just kind of snowballedfrom there really.
But I thought looking back oh,it's going to be, this will be
(05:19):
great owning a business and youknow I'll be able to do what I
want and have time, anddefinitely none of that true.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Now there's a difference, isn't there, between
live events and experiential,and you've very much gone down
the experiential route.
Obviously, this podcast is forevent professionals and the like
, but for the layman, or perhapssomebody who's new to the to
the event industry orexperiential industry, what's
the difference between the two?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
so for me, live- events would be where you would
have a, you know, like a, aconcert or uh, anything with a
kind of larger scale audiencewhere someone is delivering
something of scale.
For me, experiential is is allabout brands connecting with
consumers.
So you know, that can be donein various different ways, but
(06:03):
for me it's making sure that theconsumers have an experience,
they take away some memories,you know, and they feel more
connected, you know, ultimatelyto the brand.
I think would be kind of howyou know, I would explain it in
a nutshell yeah, it's a lot moretouchy feely, isn't?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
it, I think the whole experiential side.
You know we'll go on later totalk about how you actually
measure that, because obviouslywith events it's a little bit
more linear, isn't it?
You can measure against numberof attendees how many tickets
you sold, et cetera, et cetera.
But with experiential it's alittle bit more subtle, isn't?
it but we'll come onto that Now.
You mentioned and I just wantto sort of spend a little bit of
(06:43):
time on this on starting thebusiness, because obviously
you're only two years in, butyou've come a long way in those
two years.
You've gone from yourself,obviously, and now you're up to
what?
25 employees.
So how have you been able tomanage that growth so quickly?
Good question.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I would ask myself that every day.
To be honest, no, listen, Ithink for us, when we've gone
through processes of addingstaff and key roles, we've
interviewed I don't even knowhow many people, 100 people,
hundreds of people, it feelslike, Because for me it was
about getting skill setsimportant, but the right person
(07:18):
is the most important, becausethen that person can then be
molded or evolve into something.
But if they've got the rightattitude, then that for me is a
key.
I guess recruitment would be oneof the main focuses for me in
terms of getting there creatingan environment where people and
particularly I believe thisstrongly in creative, creating
(07:39):
an environment where people areconfident to come up with crazy
stuff.
Environment where people areconfident to come up with crazy
stuff, confident to makemistakes and empowered to just
kind of get on with their, youknow, day to day.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I think HR is a superimportant aspect, isn't it?
And, as you said, I think youcan.
You can teach people the hardskills you know.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You can teach them how to press buttons, how to
fill in forms and the rest of it, but those soft skills, the
people skills and the you know,being being intuitive, being
inquisitive, they're much harderto find.
Look, I don't think I meanprobably more so nowadays people
would pick events as a career.
A lot of people, if we'rehonest, accidentally end up in
events and it's it's it'sattitude, it's hard work and
it's grit that ultimatelymatters, because you know, it is
(08:22):
not easy in any capacity.
But, yeah, no, I would agree,we have a bit of a joke actually
, we in our within enigma, thatwe, we don't necessarily have
direct hr, if you will.
Yeah, you kind of have a bit ofa joke that if you need hr,
leave, which is a joke, andobviously we don't mean it.
But in the context of come andspeak to me about it, we'll
(08:43):
either figure it out or we won't.
It's an interesting approachactually, because and speak to
me about it we'll either figureit out or we won't.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It's an interesting approach, actually, because you
talk to a lot of business ownersand one of the first things
that will say as they grow theirteam is the inordinate amount
of time that they spend on hr.
Yeah, and those little thingslike I don't know, my cat died,
I need time off, or I've got acold, or I need to do this and
that.
So you're doing that yourself.
Still, no, you no, we.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
so we've got a software that works and we've
got an admin team, butultimately, like you know, for
me the size of the business isso important to not go bigger
than it is now right, because atthe minute I'm in the culture,
I can help control it or notcontrol it, influence it, and
and I can know the staff andknow maybe what makes them tick
and know if their cat died or oranything you know, and then
(09:25):
it's for me it's much more of ahuman approach.
Like you know, if you need abit of time off, of course we'll
all rally around to give you abit of time off.
But it's funny because mysister works in England still
and I talk to her about thingsand she's like you can never
come home.
She's like the HR, the policies, she works for the council.
So it's, you know, all of theseVery structured very regimented
(09:46):
.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, and it's red tape.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It feels like the opposite of what we're trying to
build, which is quite fluid andaround the people.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, that's an interesting approach as a
business owner, because if yousay that you're going to stay at
a certain level, certainly interms of manpower, I mean
obviously that has a knock-oneffect in the amount of business
that you're able to generate.
Yep, you know, and I guess youknow, some entrepreneurs would
say, oh, why limit yourself?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, what's the thought process behind that?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Because I mean, you know, you come across this a lot
in life, don't you?
Or I think I do.
Certainly, the older I get, isyou know, I certainly ask myself
the question of when.
Is enough enough?
Yeah, yes, is enough enough?
Yeah, yes.
I think some of us would whatwe think we'd like to earn
millions and millions and sailoff into the distance.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But actually what we're, what would keep us happy,
is often a lot less yeah, Ithink so, and I think what I've
learned in the last two but alsofive years of just sort of
really when I started thinkingabout it is more what not to do.
You know, like scaling quicklyokay is super challenging, but
if you scale too fast and youdon't have the infrastructure to
(10:51):
support it, it will all falldown.
Also, I feel that there's noneed to be greedy.
I always say I'm not greedy.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I feel like we're blessedto have the clients we have.
Right, we're looking at a lot ofQ4 and saying, okay, done, we
can't take any more on, it'simportant to just deliver now.
And that goes back torelationships and trust with
(11:12):
clients.
And then I always go back tokind of, how hard did I work to
get this client?
So now I need to keep thisclient, retain this client.
That's one part of it.
The second part of it is I'vegot a two-year-old little girl
and a six-year-old boy and Ispend a huge amount of time
working and and you know itbeing in and out of saudi and in
(11:33):
and out of qatar, and also Iwant to be able to, uh, have
some balance in my life.
And then the last point I wouldsay, probably on this number of
25 that I have kind offascinated around in my head is
I think that with the tech thatyou've got now and the world,
the way the world's connected,how ai is coming and changing
everything, you can compete withanyone.
Yeah, you know, like we'reworking with some incredible
(11:55):
brands and we're a you know, Iwould say we're quite a young
team, fresh team, but we, we cancompete and it works.
So I just don't think we needto change it too much.
You know Well, you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I had David Balfour on from Lightblue recently and
he went through a similarprocess with Lightblue.
He went from, I think he said,having 50-plus clients on board
and then scaled it back to 25.
And there's lots of learningsthat you can take away from that
, obviously just being able toserve the service, the clients
that you have better.
Yeah, and, as you rightly pointout, retain the clients.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
I mean, we all know it costs a lot more to go out
there and get a new client thanit does to keep your existing
client no for sure, andespecially in the market now,
when it's like a lot of it'sgoing more and more into like
procurement briefs and itbecomes a big challenge because
you don't necessarily or you'renot allowed to have direct comms
with the marketing or whoever'stheir brand, sales, etc.
(12:52):
So you end up thinking, okay,I'm dealing with procurement,
this is just going to become,you know, 10, go to the bottom,
race to the bottom in terms ofnumbers and then you just you
don't want to be a part of that.
Yeah, much better to not retain, because the retainer model
isn't, doesn't really exist inin events, but work with them,
because you then you know like,you know we, we know what new
(13:13):
balance's calendar is, we knowwhat netflix are doing, like,
because they have relationshipswith them and then you don't
have to go through that pitchprocess every single time, which
is, you, you know, burnscreative.
If you don't win it there's,you know, negative people will
get a bit down about it andstuff.
So, yeah, for me, yeah, veryimportant that for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's interesting, isn't it?
Because, I think you know, inthe course of doing these
podcasts, what I've realized isthat the industry seems to be
quite cyclical in terms of itsattitude towards how to win
business and the wholerelationship thing, and what I
sort of gleaned over the lastthree to six months is that we
seem to be in a period now wherewe're slipping back towards
(13:53):
procurement and the lowestcommon denominator, rather than
building proper relationshipswith clients where you're in as
a partner and not just as aprovider.
Yeah, from your experience, howhas that brand experience of
the live event industry changedin the sort of couple of years
the last, certainly, that yourlast two years?
Has there been a change and, ifso, where's that been, other
(14:14):
than obviously?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
what we've just talked about.
No, I think it.
I think it's changed.
I think, if I look at thelandscape six months ago in
regards ai, and even threemonths ago, how quickly this is
evolving and changing, whetherit's the pitch process or the
rfb process, or whether it'sbeing able to turn things around
quicker for live, that is ahuge change in it.
(14:36):
But then we are, I feel, anywaywe are now working towards a
bit of a shift where people arequestioning what is real good
number of our brands that wework, with the minute of saying,
look, we don't want to work init.
If this is ai, we don't want it, which is an interesting
perspective.
But because I feel like theywant to go back to, you know,
protecting the human nature ofan event and making sure that
(14:57):
you, you, you know you have aphysical element to it where you
, you know you can, like we saidearlier, look, feel, touch it.
So I feel like, yeah, thatwould, for me, would be one of
the biggest changes.
I would say yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So how do you manage the new business then?
I mean, obviously you've gotthe relationships already with
the, with your existing clients.
Do you find yourself having toknock on doors and be very
speculative and go out and reachto people who you think you
know might speak the same kindof language as you, or do you
rely more on, you know, peoplecoming to you with briefs For me
?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
it's all about relationships.
This market is so driven onthat and I don't think we've
done a cold piece of sales sincewe opened.
To be honest, it's always beenrelationships, referrals,
delivering.
I'm a big advocate for sharingyour story, sharing what you do,
celebrating your wins.
You know whether that's onsocials or on your website or
(15:45):
you know in your friends'networks Then that the
consequence of that has been agrowth in terms of it, and
that's one thing I love aboutDubai, by the way, is people
celebrate each other's wins here, I feel much more, and you know
LinkedIn as a platform hereversus the UK is completely
night and day, I feel.
Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, I mean in terms ofactivity, the way that people
(16:05):
will post regularly.
I feel, the way that I feel themarket here will celebrate your
wins For me.
I love to see other agenciesdoing cool stuff.
For me, it's inspiring, it'ssuper interesting.
I also like to see you know,like the growth of any
entertainment agencies or othersuppliers.
I feel you know we should alljust and I feel like that is
(16:27):
what happens we should all kindof celebrate it and grow
together, because the market is,it's, white-holed at the minute
.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Now you've produced some pretty high profile
experiential activities so far.
What's been your favourite sofar, what stands out for you and
what really sort of embodiesthe DNA of Enigma?
Good chance for you to give acase study, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
I mean the immediate one that jumps to my head is
when we created a brand momentfor Netflix in Jeddah around Red
Sea Film Festival last year.
Yeah, so many challenges withit in terms of trying to find a
venue that worked, dealing withlike teams, cross-functional
between various differentagencies, but for me, that would
be the standout one.
That was three day fanexperience.
(17:08):
It got extended to anotherweekend.
We had 14 kind of zones withinit.
Some local titles werecelebrated.
We had a bit on Wednesday.
We had Stranger Things Love,stranger things, love is blind
spl, which was a big one for meand it was.
We had a bridgerton cafe andseeing how netflix, or how we
(17:29):
worked with netflix on thecreative to fuse that into saudi
culture, was really, reallycool.
They gave us a good amount offreedom.
Lots of challenges becauseyou're dealing with Netflix as a
brand, then you're dealing with, you know, the Bridgerton brand
, stranger Things brand, theWednesday brand.
So lots of intricacies in termsof how we would bring it
together, get access to content,etc.
(17:50):
But for me that's uh, that'sdefinitely one that kind of I
felt really put us on the map, Iwould say, in terms of
experiential and experiences and, uh, everything around.
Yeah, because I think, goingback to the challenges that we
faced in saudi, I think we wentthrough nine venues we went
through 24 sets of renders orsomething, and it was just, you
(18:12):
know, one of those ones whereyou're just thinking, oh my god,
this is ever going to happen.
Yeah, but we, but we got itacross the line and it was, uh,
something that we were all superproud of, yeah, so now,
obviously the visual element ofexperiential is one part of it,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
but how do you connect emotionally with
audiences?
What, what do you infuse intoyour proposals for clients that
really tick that emotional box?
Yeah because, at the end of theday, isn't it?
That's what?
That's what people are comingfor and that's what, when they
go away, they will talk.
They will talk about the mostthey won't necessarily.
Oh yes, sure, they'll have somenice shots for Instagram, but
it's that emotional connection,isn't it that, really?
(18:45):
I think, anyway, when it comesto experiential makes, or breaks
.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
No, I would agree.
We always sit in a room whenwe're unpacking a brief and we
kind of say, okay, who's thetarget audience here?
Like, out of the 10 people orwhatever that work on this,
who's the target audience?
Okay, come up with an idea, doyou engage with it and then,
very quickly, if it's no, moveon, go to the next one.
(19:11):
I think the other importantthing is making sure that you do
understand that consumerdirectly from end to end, so you
know, whether it's a shoelaunch or a car launch, who is
going to be buying this car.
Like, ultimately, everyone'strying to sell something is how
I feel right, so it's makingthat process feel super organic
and a nice experience for them.
But I feel that for me, themost important there is, like
(19:32):
the detail of the consumer andif you understand it, I think
for us, our decks are superstrong at the minute,
particularly, we are trying tofind ways to animate things,
keep everything moving.
I feel like more and moreattention spans are shorter and
shorter.
A hundred slide deck is adisaster for me.
(19:53):
I think the best pitch is 15minutes and you're just really
punchy to the point.
To be honest, I also think if Iwas to say to the point, to be
honest, I also think if I alwayssay to the guys, before we
pitch, close down the laptop.
You've got like 45 seconds,explain it.
And at the start, try andexplain that in 45 seconds
because and then you also knowif you've got them or not.
Yeah, and then you know.
I guess the other thing which Istrongly feel about when we're
(20:16):
putting things in front ofclients is like teams calls are
great, zoom calls, whatever theyare great and they serve a good
purpose.
But being in the room with theclient is so much better because
you know, you pick up on bodylanguage, you know humor,
terrible jokes, whatever.
You can thread it all in andand build that rapport with them
.
Yeah, I think that's anotherbig difference for me when it
(20:38):
comes to putting things in frontof clients and making a
difference.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, and just shifting tack ever so slightly.
When you decided to set upEnigma, what was the most
significant risk that you feelyou took at that time?
Because, obviously you know,working for yourself and running
your own business isn't foreverybody, is it?
Yeah, there are a lot of peoplewho just prefer the safety of a
(21:04):
, of a salaried job, and the youknow and the comfort that your
salary is going to hit youraccount at the end of of every
month.
As you and I both know, whenyou have your own business,
that's not always the case.
You're often the last personyeah, not the first.
So when you were deciding to dothis, what?
What do you think was the themost significant risk that you
perceived?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
it's funny, you know.
I go back to conversation withmy wife.
We were on holiday and I saidto her like I think about doing
this thing and we maybe we'll gofor it.
And then she was like it was aliterally about a five minute
conversation and she was likeyou, have you already made your
mind up, so let's just do it.
And then probably the biggestrisk at that point was like oh,
holy shit, what about schoolfees?
(21:38):
What about all this upfrontcost?
Like there wasn't a biginvestment in it, it was, you
know, let's go for it, let'sroll the dice and see what we
can do.
But yeah, for me, the the bigrisk is what I feel every day is
I feel like, you know, I'm theresponsibility.
I would say like, as we'vegrown, you know, I obviously
have the responsibility of myfamily, but from a wider
(21:58):
perspective, you know, there's25 people that are relying on us
being able to deliver and be asuccessful agency and some of
those have got kids and familiesthat depend on them.
So I think the responsibilityof it.
But I guess that's the mainmotivator, to be honest, because
if you, you know, I always saylike I'm stressing about
December or I'm stressing aboutNovember or something coming up.
(22:18):
You know, I always say like I'mstressing about December or I'm
stressing about November orsomething coming up, but I
always kind of say to myselflike, but if I don't go in today
and do these three meetings andwin this or deliver that, it
doesn't really matter.
You know, go one step at a timeand and do it.
But yeah, it's uh.
I would tell you it is intense,you would know, and it's
relentless.
Relentless, like the markethere is.
(22:39):
Relentless because you'realways on, like I've took my
watch off for this.
My wife makes me have no watchdays on the weekends, which is
uh, which is funny as well.
Oh, I don't know that.
But yeah, not not beingconnected is embarrassingly a
stress to not, but I guess it's,it's part of the fun, like we
talked about, you know, justbefore we started about maybe
going back to england orsomething.
(23:00):
But I would never survivebecause the chaos of the middle
east is what I live for.
Like, I come in every day andit's just every day is different
.
The energy that the team havegot and you know, the excitement
that we've got for stuff comingup in q4 is is what keeps me
going.
I think yeah for sure it'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
You say that I, one of my partners in, in the other
business that I have warehousefor, which is the event venue,
we used to work in asia togetherand again, you know we've
laughed about this many timesthat we said that he and I are
sort of two peas in a pod, inthe sense that we, we, you know
you move to markets like thatand there's a lot of gray area,
yeah, whereas in the uk and theus and more established markets,
there's a lot of gray area,yeah, whereas in the UK and the
(23:38):
US and more established markets,there's less gray area.
The rules are the rules.
It's red tape, you know, inplaces in, certainly in
Southeast Asia and to here to acertain extent, although it has
leveled off a bit over the last10 to 15 years but there's a
gray area, you know, and somepeople thrive in that gray area.
Some people like playing inthat gray area.
I know, I do, I know I do.
It doesn't bother me, it excitesme, just that opportunity.
(23:58):
You seem to be the same.
I will ask you this, though asa business owner, do you find it
lonely?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes, yes in a short answer would be Look, I've
started working with.
I'm very blessed that myfather-in-law had some very high
profile jobs across the eventindustry advertising and I've
recently started kind of workingwith him in kind of a
mentorship role.
Because you know, I'm veryhonest, you know all the time
for good or for bad, and I feelthat often, day in, day out, I'm
(24:26):
still figuring it out like I donot know.
You know necessarily what I'mdoing at times and I think this
is part of the fun and the ride.
But I would now I'm kind oflike five or six sessions in
with him and you know there's noreal agenda to it, but he just
sort sort of will unpick thingsfrom my brain and then make me
open up and think, oh okay, yeah, yeah, that's definitely a good
(24:46):
way to approach it.
But it's that sounding board tobe able to just bounce ideas
Like we've.
One of the challenges withgrowing really fast is having
structure.
We've definitely got goodstructure in place now where
I've got some key people in inleadership positions that I can
bounce ideas off.
But you know, ultimately Iguess the truth is at three
o'clock in the morning when I'mthinking about payroll, the buck
(25:08):
stops with you, stops with me.
Yeah, literally so, but yeah,no, I think that's one thing I'm
learning is the importance ofsharing it.
You know, like tyler is a goodfriend of mine, we would chat
about a lot of things that wehave in common and share,
because, yeah, otherwise itbecomes quite stressful, and uh,
and relentless is a word I keepusing, but that's how I feel it
(25:29):
is and, like you said, thehonesty that comes through.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I think you know again.
You stressed at the verybeginning that you've only been
two years into this business.
How do you stave off theimposter syndrome?
I embrace it, I think.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Because you do think of them.
But then I definitely think andhave that often at times.
But then I do look around and Ido check what we've done and I
do think we've done stuff withBMW and stuff with Bentley and
New Balance and I just thinkthere should be an element where
we feel super proud of whatwe've achieved in the in the two
(26:03):
years of chaos.
But, yeah, I also feel that theapproach to just remain humble
and not, you know, ever get toobig for your boobs this is
around the staying around thenumber that we are and learning
the no's and all of these thingswhich I'm kind of getting to
now but I feel like, uh, yeah,that's that's important.
But yeah, days I do come in andgo what are we doing?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
have you reached a turning point yet in the
business where you think, okay,I'm comfortable with this.
We, you know, both from aobviously from a financial
standpoint, yeah, but just froma personal standpoint as well
where you can, you know, likeyou said, take the time to look
back at what you've deliveredand gone.
You know what we did good there.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, I think it's important.
I think it's so important tocelebrate the wins, because not
everyone gets to come and seethe live event.
It's so important that the teamall get that buzz of, oh my God
, we achieved this, we did thisand we all played a part in it.
Yeah, definitely.
But then you know, as thenature of the business it's, you
know, bang on to the next, onto the next, on to the next and,
to be honest, like I said, Ilove it.
(27:00):
I do love that part of it andthe competitive nature of it
like I'm, you know, obviouslyplayed a lot of sport growing up
and whatever, so it's uh.
That competitive nature ofknowing who we're competing
against and how they are leadingagencies, some of them are top
top and even to be at the tableon occasion is awesome for us,
(27:21):
especially in the time thatwe've been doing this.
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Now, a key, very important aspect of any
experiential activity is how tomeasure success, isn't it?
How do you guys do that?
I mean, what KPIs do you set upwith the client pre-activity,
by which you're going to measurewhether or not that the event's
been successful or not?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
yeah, good question.
Um, look, I think data playsmuch more of a role in it
nowadays, right, um?
And we?
For me, I always feel that we,when we work closely with pr or
social, it's a lot easier tointegrate like a almost like a
holistic, holistic outcome of tobe able to go back to the
(28:02):
client with something tangible.
But, yeah, for me I would sayit's, it's making sure that,
from our perspective, theexperiences is is obviously the
key.
But shit, answer this.
Sorry, I need to go back.
Yeah, it's a hard question thatit is, isn't it?
(28:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
it is.
How do you measure the KPIs?
yeah, because what you know it'svery varied, because the KPIs
are like but I think that's all,because it's so difficult, I
think you know, for me, it'seven more important to establish
how you measure success in thefirst place.
So, for example, I'll give youan example from the podcast
business.
For example, we specialize inproducing branded podcasts for a
client, you know, and one ofthe first things I mean I have a
(28:44):
client at the moment, acybersecurity client.
They're based out of Singapore,and one of the things we said
right at the very beginning wasyou know, what do you want to
achieve from this podcast?
Please don't tell me you want tobe the next Joe Rogan, because
if you do, I can't help you, butif you tell me that you want to
reach 20% of, you know, thecybersecurity industry in APAC.
(29:06):
I can help you with that Right,so I think think it.
You know it's very important toset, set the stall out and then
that way nobody is disappointed.
Yeah, so, and I appreciate.
Yeah, it's a very difficultyeah isn't it with with
experiential, because so much ofit is.
That are those intangiblemoments it's that you know.
It's that touchy-feely element.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, and also, you don't necessarily get the.
You don't get oversight of alot of those intangible moments.
Right, you know you go to anevent or you go to a concert or
wherever you go to, you takeaway a memory with your wife or
your girlfriend or whatever.
The brand doesn't necessarilyknow that.
It's just becomes part of, uh,part of their experience.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So how important is moving product?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
as a KPI.
Yeah, Look.
I think, it's important, but Ithink if it's a focus, if you
are just focused on commercials,then I think you've missed the
mark, because you would buildbrand loyalty, you would build
brand affinity throughexperiences, through
experiential, and a consequenceof that would be the, the
(30:09):
product purchase, whatever thatwould be.
For me, that's the.
The important part isunderstanding the, the journey
to the sale, rather thanconcentrating on the commercials
, because that is often a kpithat we have is, you know, so
it's x amount of dirham sold orx amount of test drives or x
amount of this, but for us, it'sabout understanding how you get
(30:32):
that person in the car is theimportant part.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And following on from that, then I mean, obviously a
key part of what you do ispeople in person attending
whatever it is that you'reorganizing.
But then how important is itfor that experience then to have
a life after the actual day, oror days, of the activity itself
?
How many, how many of yourbriefs have that in encompassed?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
um, yeah, look, I think it's.
I think a few of them woulddefinitely, because the
longevity of it would wouldwould need to linger, um, live
on.
Sorry, from our perspective ismore about delivering in the
moment.
That's the key for us is wewould deliver in the moment and
then everything else would be aconsequence of it.
Post.
I feel that's not really arehugely included within our
(31:19):
briefs that we get.
It would be, unless it's like aretained client that you're
working with regularly.
But for us it's about nailingthat moment, making sure the
consumer gets that experience.
For us, it's about nailing thatmoment making sure the consumer
gets that experience.
And then you know, like I saidbefore, the loyalty, the
affinity then comes from thatmoment and with that comes the
sales and the various differentbits with the brand?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Are you finding there's any industries in
particular that you're workingwith and working across that
have much more of an affinitytowards the experiential space
rather than others?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
yeah, I would say retail definitely is, because
there's a lot of.
For me, there's a focus around,you know, yes, getting people
to the stores or getting peopleto.
You know the stands, but thenengaging whilst they're there,
not just being about thecommercials.
Uh, automotive, more and more isaround, you know, not looking
at it as an isolated launchevent, looking at it as a, as
(32:14):
more of a, an experience over aperiod of time, um, and, to be
honest, I think most most of thestuff that we work in is is
leaning more towards that.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
If I'm honest, yeah, looking ahead where do you think
the future of experientialmarketing and brand experiences
is going?
Where do you think it's heading?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Look, I think people first is where it will head, in
my opinion.
I don't think it's that.
There were definitely a lotmore data and analytics that
come into it.
We will find ways, or arefinding ways, to measure the
success of these experiences.
Experiences, uh, but for me itwill always or I hope it is
(32:54):
always around um humanengagement, um giving people
that moment, giving people thatyou know, bite-sized piece of
content that they then want toshare family or on socials.
Um, for me, that's uh, that'swhere I think it will continue
to go into and um and evolve,yeah and a couple of more
questions just before we we wrapup.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Um, if you were advising a young entrepreneur
starting out an agency today,what's, what's some of the
advice you'd give?
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
No, I dunno.
Um, what would advice would Igive?
Look, I think that for me Iwould go back to it's hard, hard
work and a good, positiveattitude to hard work, grit,
determination.
You know, for me it was, youknow, understanding why I'm
(33:57):
doing this if I go back to mykids and my wife, and then that
is your driver for it.
So you've got to keep going andkeep moving forward.
Um, but yeah, other than that,and I actually feel like the,
the new generation, maybe get abit of a bad rap at the minute,
to be honest, I think we've gotsome that work so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So it's, yeah, I think for me often is you know,
don't be afraid to fail.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, I know over the yearsI've come up with 101 excuses
not to do things.
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been
afraid of failure things.
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's just because I've been
afraid of failure.
Yeah, but uh, but I think, youknow, I've managed to temper
that over the years, you know,certainly, even if I go back
(34:35):
right to when I I moved awayfrom the uk to to hong kong, you
know I was.
I went there for six weeks anduh, yeah, and that was it.
And the biggest question I hadat the end of that was should I
stay in hong kong or should I goback to the UK?
And then, of course, in therethere's a fear of failure and
obviously what stopped me wasjust you know well, I don't ever
want to say what, if, but it'sa very strong emotion that fear
(34:59):
of failure.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, I think also, one other thing that I
definitely try to do day to dayis, you know, and this goes back
to football would be keep itsimple, like I often think that
the industry here gets so overcomplicated with it, whatever it
, whatever reasons, or you knowthings that come in and you know
outside factors that would play, but I always just think the
simple thread of what you'retrying to achieve, always
(35:22):
understand the start and thefinish, and keeping it simple is
so important for us.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think and penultimately, I mean I've asked
every guest this I'm a bigmusic fan.
I use music for all kinds ofthings, mostly just to relax at
the end of a stressful week or astressful day.
I can imagine you must be amusic fan as well.
Yep, what's on your playlist atthe moment?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
oh my god, that's a question eh, oh, my spotify no
judgment by my spotify playlistmight be the most random it.
It would go from BackstreetBoys all the way to Biggie and
everything in between, if I'mhonest.
But in the car I don't have theradio on.
I don't have anything on in thecar when I'm driving.
I do probably quite a lot ofthinking when I'm in the car
(36:06):
because you're at work and it'shectic.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You walk through the interruptions.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
The kids come and they need your attention.
So when I'm in the car it's alittle bit of peace.
So yeah, but yeah, I don't knowthe guys are going to be
laughing here about.
Yeah, but backstreet boys tobiggie would be a fair and
everything in between brilliantand finally, adam, what's next
for you and enigma?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Well, tomorrow we're going to.
Riyadh.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
We've got a Wednesday season two, part two launch
with Netflix next week in Riyadh, which is super exciting.
Like I said, q4 is busy, butbeyond that, for me now it's
stability is the most importantthing now, like building the
brand.
You know, I guess I think we'veprobably come up a little bit
under the radar and many peoplewouldn't have heard of us, which
(36:51):
I'm cool with and okay with.
But for me now it's okay, cool,we've got here, we've done a
really good job.
Now let's get some stability,you know, get the roots down,
make sure that what we'redelivering is ultimately best in
class and just keep thatconsistency going.
That's probably what next askme on, uh, tuesday or wednesday
(37:12):
next week when I'm in riyadh I,I don't know, eh well, adam,
it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Event news dxp is brought toyou by Warehouse 4, probably
Dubai's best independent eventvenue, and Minus 45 DB, the team
transforming noisy event spacesinto slick, sound-reduced
(37:40):
environments.
The podcast was presented bymyself, ian Carlos, the studio
engineer and editor was RoyDeMonte, the executive producer
was myself and Joe Morrison, andthis podcast was produced by W4
Podcast Studio Dubai, and ifyou haven't done so already,
please do click that follow orsubscribe button.
(38:00):
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!