March 3, 2026 • 29 mins
Why do you read? And what biases are sitting on your bookshelf?
The hosts center their careers on innovation which means that they ask questions for a living. So when hosts Dr. Patti Fletcher, Lynne Cuppernull, and Dan Ward tackle reading, they don't ask what you're reading, they ask why.
This episode starts with the personal: reading as escape, ritual, education, connection, a cuddle for the brain. Then it gets harder. How diverse are the authors on your shelf? Did you know men make up only 19% of readers of books written by women, while women are 65% of readers of books written by men? What does that say about cultural conditioning?
The hosts dig into who reads, who writes, and who gets read. They examine economic dimensions: people with higher incomes read more, and people who read more earn more. They talk about creating reading cultures in organizations, the politics of whose books get attention, and whether it's okay to not finish a book (or write in one).
Then they take on AI. Would you read a book written by AI? What if you didn't know it was AI-generated until after? And what does it mean when AI reads our books without permission: Can we even call that reading?
Dan shares his experiment reading only books by women, people of color, and international authors for a year. Patti talks about intentionally seeking out authors of color after Black Lives Matter and forgetting she'd even made that choice because it became a natural, intentional part of her selection process. Lynne asks if reading is where avoided questions first whisper to us.
They close with a lightning round: Fiction or nonfiction? Long or short? Library or bookstore? Paper or screen?
Key Themes:
- Why we read versus what we read
- Gender and cultural biases in reading habits
- Economic dimensions of literacy and access
- Building reading cultures in teams and organizations
- Writing in books, not finishing books, buying books we never read
- AI-generated content and what AI owes to authors whose work it trains on
- Reading as anti-fascist practice and connection across difference
Resources We Found Helpful
Research & Data:
- U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reading data
- U.S. Department of Education literacy research
- National Endowment for the Arts reading trends
- Pew Research: 23% of American adults haven't read a book in the past year
- Global readership data on gender disparities in reading
Referenced Authors & Works:
- C.S. Lewis: "We read to know we're not alone"
- Toni Morrison's *Beloved*
- The Brontë sisters (published under pseudonyms like Currer Bell)
People & Organizations Mentioned:
- Reed Hoffman (LinkedIn co-founder, Greylock partner) - early ChatGPT user for book writing
- Tara McDonald - Natick, Massachusetts library system
- Anthropic legal settlement regarding AI training on books
Mentioned in Passing:
- Dan Ward's LinkedIn post on AI writing tells (especially the M-dash)
- B. Dalton bookstores
- National Reading Month (March)
- Read Across America Day (March 2nd)
Listening for the Questions is where curiosity is our compass.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan (00:13):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Listening for the Questions.
I'm Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And did I mention I'm an author?
I've written four books.
Number five is in the works, soI have a really close connection
with today's topic.
Patti (00:29):
Dan, I love that you said you're an author twice.
It's kind of like when you meetpeople from Harvard and they
tell you within the firstsentence they went to Harvard.
But let me introduce myself.
I'm Dr.
Patty Fletcher.
I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from Big Tech.
I'm a leadership futurist whohas been working at the
intersection of people,business, technology, and data
for maybe longer than some ofour listeners have been alive.
(00:50):
And yes, I'm a best-sellingauthor just like Dan.
And like any good writer, I'm anavid reader.
So even though I love everytopic we pick for this podcast,
today's topic is very, veryimportant and interesting to me
too.
Lynne (01:05):
And I'm Lynn Cuppernal.
I'm not an author.
I'm a leadership coach and ahealthcare consultant.
And in college, I basicallydouble majored in English.
I took so many literatureclasses, it was enough to get
two majors.
I also managed bookstores for anumber number of years in my
early 20s.
Does anyone remember B.
Dalton?
(01:26):
And I am in a book club that'sbeen meeting regularly for at
least 20 years.
And March is National ReadingMonth.
March 2nd was Read AcrossAmerica Day.
So we all have lots of excitingconnections to today's topic.
Dan (01:43):
Reading.
I'm so excited to dive in.
And I would love to start byasking you both, what are you
reading and what do you like toread?
But I'm actually not going to dothat.
I don't want to use that as ouropening question because it
feels like a dead end question,and that's not what this podcast
is about.
So instead, let's start byasking, why do you read?
What is it about reading thatfeels important to you?
(02:04):
And I think it's okay to answerthat one.
Lynne (02:06):
I'm not even sure why I read, Dan.
For me, it's like breathing.
And why do I breathe to stayalive?
This question, though, makes methink of another one, which is
what do we love about reading?
Patti (02:20):
I love the why questions, right?
I love the why questions.
And Len, I just want to go backto your intro about yourself.
You may not be the author ofbooks, but you are the author of
your own life, aren't you?
Yeah, you're welcome.
Um, okay, so you know I read formany different reasons.
I read to escape, I read um as aritual to help me go to sleep.
(02:42):
I read to educate myself.
And yes, I read to help myselfbe a better writer.
And what I love about reading isum things that help me be a
better leader, right?
Things that, yes, help me bebetter able to convey things on
a stage and in the written word.
And what happens, I don't knowabout you two, but I take bits
(03:04):
and pieces.
I could be reading somethingnonfiction and it becomes like
dot to something else incrediblethat I might be working on in
business.
But enough about me, Dan.
Thanks for letting me answer aquestion.
Um, Dan, what about you?
Dan (03:17):
Oh, I read for so many reasons, like you all touched on
as well.
I read novels at night as partof my bedtime routine, and I
genuinely think that's one ofthe reasons I sleep so well.
I read to learn, I read tochallenge myself, to relax, for
fun.
And my mom tells me that when mysiblings and I were little, she
and my dad would cuddle us andread to us.
So we all grew up associatingreading with warmth and security
(03:40):
and love.
And Kim and I did the same thingwith our two kids for the same
reason.
So I probably love readingbecause it's like a cuddle for
my brain.
How about you, Lynn?
What do you why do you love toread?
Lynne (03:51):
I love a cuddle for my brain.
Oh, I'm gonna sit with that fora second.
Like the two of you, I read tolearn too.
I love reading to learn.
And then I also read to do, Ithink, maybe the opposite of
learn, which is to just checkout and relax.
Uh, and I read to connect.
Uh, I read to connect not onlywith the people in my 20 years
(04:14):
in counting book club, but justwith other worlds, other ideas.
Um, I think those are thereasons I I like to read.
I love to read.
You know, when I think aboutreading, what are we talking
about?
Are we talking about readingbooks?
I think the three of us maybehave a bias towards books, not
just because two-thirds of usare authors.
(04:35):
Um, but reading is more thanjust books, right?
It's articles, it's newspapers.
And that got me thinking (04:41):
what biases do we bring to the topic
of reading?
Generational biases, culturalbiases, gender biases?
Dan (04:52):
Yes, let's jump into the bias questions.
Thank you.
That's one of my favorite partsof this podcast every single
time.
So, one of the questions thatcomes to mind is how much
diversity is represented on ourbookshelves?
And yes, that is a question witha recommendation baked in.
You can probably guess what itis.
But if the authors we read arehomogenous in any way, if if we
(05:12):
are reading only authors wholook or sound or come from a
certain part of the world, arewe missing out on important
perspectives?
Are we missing out on importantideas?
And then critically, what mightchange if we read books from a
more diverse set of authors?
Patti (05:29):
Dan, I'm just gonna sit with that for a little bit and
ask you a very provocativequestion.
Anyway, everybody sit down forthis one.
Dan, are you saying that boysare allowed to read books
written by girls?
Dan (05:44):
What?
What a provocative idea.
You know, Patty, I'm gonna goway out on a limb and I'm gonna
actually no wait, I was gonnamake a joke about this being a
controversial take.
But doggone it, it is acontroversial take, isn't it?
To say that boys can read bookswritten by girls and men can
read books written by women?
I mean, how many books arewritten by women and then
(06:04):
treated as if they should onlybe read by women and are only
marketed to women?
And how many men look at a bookwritten by a woman and think,
oh, that's not for me?
And let me put in a plug realquick.
Patty's book is terrific.
It's called Disruptors.
Y'all should read it.
Patti (06:17):
Damn straight, Dan.
Um, and of course, I read all ofyour books.
And by the way, listeners, um,half of my readers are now men.
And I like short form, longform, right?
I'll write and I'll read prettymuch anything, including
Instagram posts.
But when I think about thefemale authors we did read in
school, those tended to be theromance kind of things, right?
(06:38):
You know, the Wuthering Heightskind of kind of books, whereas
the male ones were abroad scope.
So that might be somethingthat's conditioned.
But I did look up the data.
When we look at readership, menare only about 19% of readers of
books that are written by women.
And this compares to women whoare 65% of readers of books
(07:01):
written by men.
So of course, the question iswhat does that say about our
cultural conditioning?
By the way, these are globalnumbers, not just US numbers.
So, what does this say about ourcultural conditioning?
And, you know, is it becausewe're conditioned in a
male-friendly system, right?
We're always gonna go back tothat stuff, right?
(07:22):
And and it's like women have tostretch so much to fit into that
system, and you know, men don'tbecause the system's made for
them.
It brings up all sorts ofquestions beyond reading.
Lynne (07:32):
Yes, and like and one that that's not even really a
good question, but that's top ofmind is why do we have chick
lit, but we don't have brobooks?
I feel like this is one of thosequestions that our our little
kid friends would be asking.
Why don't we?
And Patty, as I as I I sort ofthink about your your stats and
(07:54):
the data that you shared, whichwas super helpful.
I'm wondering, is that true forother things written by women,
or is it just books?
Dan (08:04):
Yeah, it does make me wonder if the gender of the
author is more visible in a bookbecause you see it on the cover,
and is it maybe less visible ina magazine article or a
newspaper because the byline issmaller and easier for people to
not notice, maybe?
That'd be an interesting thingto investigate.
Like, is it about booksprimarily, or does this happen
in other places as well?
Lynne (08:24):
Well, and back in the day, women would write books
under different names, eithernames that you couldn't tell if
they were a man or a woman, ormale.
I think one of the Bronte'soriginally published under the
name Kerr Bell.
There you go, double Englishmajor right there.
Dan (08:44):
Lynn, bring in the double English major.
I love it.
And I know a lot of uh femaleauthors have published with just
their initials instead ofrevealing what their first name
is.
That's another way to kind ofmask that.
So interestingly, this thisreminds me of an experiment I
did back in 2022.
Uh I knew that most of the booksI'd read were written by white
American men.
So for about a year, for all of2022, I made an effort as much
(09:07):
as I could to only read books bywomen, by people of color, and
by people from countries otherthan my own.
And that wasn't hard to findthese books, but it did take
some effort.
Like I had to pay attention.
And if the author is just twoinitials, I had to go look up.
Like, tell me more about thisauthor.
I've got to say, the authors Iread that year are now some of
my favorites.
And it really began by askingthe question: how diverse is my
(09:31):
bookshelf?
Patti (09:32):
I love your intention, Dan.
And I think it's it's soimportant.
And you're intentional ineverything you do.
You're the male, Mother Teresa.
Um, I am the antithesis.
So um I'm neither male norMother Teresa.
But, you know, I did the samething, Dan, and and as we were
prepping for this call, Irealized, you know, of I started
(09:53):
out by seeking out books thatwere written by women of color
and men of color.
And I really started um when theBlack Lives Matter movement um
started because I realized I'mreading like white people,
right?
Of course there were folks whoweren't white, but the majority
was white.
And it's become such a part ofmy reading now that I forgot I
did it.
(10:13):
It's it's really interesting.
And, you know, sometimes I willsay, folks, diversity is
difficult.
Um, and for me, like readingbeloved as an example was
really, really hard, or beloved,however you pronounce it, really
hard because I I had a hard timewith the language.
So guess what I did?
I freaking took my time, right?
I tried to figure it out.
That's the point, you know.
(10:34):
So maybe that's part of thebeauty, right?
It gives us that chance toescape, like Lynn, like you were
talking about, right, intoanother world.
And, you know, it makes mewonder as I was reading those
books, and instead of saying,this is too hard or this doesn't
relate to me, it made me startto understand culture.
And maybe that's what this mightbe about, right?
(10:56):
Are books a way for us to havepeople change their minds about
what they thought to be trueabout a culture or, you know,
something back in history?
And I'm wondering how manypeople have gone from judging to
wanting to understand more.
Lynne (11:11):
Now that's research I would like to see.
That's a really interestingquestion.
And I think that's bringing upfor me that there's an economic
dimension to this topic ofreading and equity.
Research also shows that peoplewith higher household incomes
tend to read more.
And actually, it works the otherway around.
(11:31):
People who read more tend toearn more.
And other research shows thatkids who go up surrounded by
books tend to earn more as an asadults.
I hope both my sons arelistening.
That doesn't mean you shouldstop reading when you're an
adult.
And now maybe that's becausehaving a lot of books helps with
performance of schools.
Maybe it's because having a lotof books indicates your family
(11:53):
already has some advantages.
I don't even know what myquestion is.
I guess is it what might we doto address this dimension around
reading and equity?
Patti (12:07):
It's really interesting, Lynn, as I'm listening to you
because you're talking a lotabout the social aspects of
books.
And you know, you've shared withus before that you are part of
our raging book club.
So I absolutely love that.
And it made me think about myfriend Tara McDonald, who runs
the library system in theNatick, Massachusetts, and she's
(12:27):
created the libraries as acommunity for students, right?
So they're among the books.
What if we looked at reading asa way to connect with other
people, right?
Instead of it being a solitaryact.
And what if we read more bookstogether and talked about them?
Dan (12:44):
This makes me wonder
Having your parents read booksto you as a kid, does that kind
of constitutes the very firstbook club?
In which case I guess I've beenin the same book club for 53
years now.
Um, and if we do read more bookstogether and we do talk about
them together, do we learn morefrom the books and from each
other?
Do we understand the books more?
(13:06):
Do we enjoy the books more?
And really, is there anydownside at all to reading books
together?
Lynne (13:13):
I'm not answering that.
I'm not answering that.
I can't think of one though, Ican't think of a downside.
And this got me thinking aboutsometimes what happens in
organizations, listeners, maybethis has never happened to you,
but I have occasionally been ona team where a leader reads a
book and they love the book somuch that they go out and they
(13:33):
get it for everybody else on theteam.
And then all that like we nowall have to read this book, and
there's a lot of pressure toread the book because it's your
boss telling you to read it.
What if instead of everybodyreading the same book that the
leader loved, everyone on theteam read a different business
book and brought that todiscuss?
And so you're not just talkingabout one person's book, you've
(13:57):
got 10 different books.
And what are we learning fromthese 10 different books that we
can bring to the team?
I want to try that.
Dan (14:04):
Yeah, what would happen to our organization, to our
organizational culture if wereally built a culture of book
reading and book sharing, wherepeople read a book and they
share it with everybody else,not as an obligation, but as an
invitation.
How do we build more of thatinto our teams and groups and
gatherings?
Lynne (14:21):
Which leads us, I guess, to the question of how do you
pick a book?
We've been trying to sort ofmake sure we talk about reading,
but I'm gonna hone in now on abook.
How do we pick books?
There are so many books in theworld.
Let's say it's not, you know,the leader saying, read this
book.
Where do you start?
Can you judge a book by itscover?
(14:42):
I will tell you from mybookstore days, there were a lot
of times when somebody wouldcome in looking for a book and
all they knew was that the coverwas red.
So I think sometimes people do,if not, pick a book by its
cover, relate to a book by itscover.
Dan (14:58):
So to piggyback on that question of how do you pick a
book, if you do have a typicalapproach to picking your next
book, what happens if you changethat up?
Maybe you always read books withred covers.
Now you're going to read a bookwith a blue cover.
So what if you make yourselection in some other way?
How does that change theexperience of reading?
Patti (15:15):
Gee, Dan, it reminds me of our What Makes a Great
Sandwich um podcast episodewhere I said I never order
something different once I findsomething I like.
And I'm always like, what elsewhat's on the New York Times
bestseller list?
You know, what is Oprah reading?
Do I go for the books thateverybody else recommends?
Do I go for the books that wonwhatever awards?
Or do I go for an authornobody's ever heard of, right?
(15:39):
And that nobody's talking about.
Dan (15:40):
And are you looking at me, Patty?
Am I the obscure author no one'sever heard of?
I mean, yes, I am 100% in a veryreal sense.
Aren't all books obscure?
So pardon me if I put on my mathhat for a minute.
I am an engineer after all.
There are over 340 millionpeople in the US alone.
So if a book sells a millioncopies, which is a lot, and if
(16:02):
all 1 million copies get read,which is unlikely, that means
less than one-third of 1% ofjust the US population has read
that million-seller book.
So maybe it's not so bad to bean obscure author because we
pretty much all are.
Lynne (16:17):
It does get me wondering about why people write books in
the first place.
Uh, I mean, maybe some people,lots of people hope to be that
million seller, um, but there'sprobably lots of other reasons
people decide to write a book.
I'm just curious about what theyare.
Patti (16:32):
Oh, I want to answer that one and biting the insides of my
cheeks.
Dan (16:35):
I will give a brief answer.
I just write each of my booksfor different reasons.
Some professional, somefinancial, some personal.
And I know our topic again isreading, but this sparks the
question that I want to ask ourlisteners: what would be a good
reason for you to write a book?
Lynne (16:51):
I'm letting the silence hang while the listeners think
about their answer to thatquestion.
Uh, but I'm going to pivot us alittle bit.
So when we talk about reading, alot of people ask if listening
to audiobooks, podcasts, doesthat count as reading?
That's fair.
Does listening count as reading?
(17:11):
And how is the experiencedifferent?
Dan (17:14):
You know, I've heard a lot of people ask that question.
Do audiobooks count?
And I always want to ask, oh,what do we mean by count?
Like count for what?
I know a lot of people like totrack how many books they read
in a year.
I do that too.
But it's not really acompetition, is it?
And also, do graphic novelscount?
Because I read a lot of thoseand I want to win the
competition.
Patti (17:32):
No, they don't count, Dan.
You have to take them off yourlist.
Um, let me answer that questionfor you.
Um, and by the way, just Dan,you had mentioned selling
selling a million books.
I just want listeners to knowthat, you know, most books sell
about a thousand copies andthey're considered fine, right?
If you sell 10,000 or more, it'sconsidered really freaking
awesome.
And Disruptors has passed that,well beyond that.
(17:54):
Um, it's really when you getinto those upper, you know, six,
six figures that that thingschange, but just know it takes a
lot of money and marketing tomake that happen.
So, you know what's reallyinteresting, you guys?
I have like the smell oftextbooks in my in my person now
that I'm thinking about this,and I'm thinking about how fun
it was in the beginning of theyear to get the the paper
grocery bag and cut it out andand and wrap the books.
(18:17):
And then it leads me to the factthat I tend to write in the
pages of my books, which is oneof the challenges I have with
library books or audiobooks.
I can't write right in in themargins.
And, you know, we were trainedin school that we should not be
doing that, trained in college.
If we wanted to resell ourbooks, we probably shouldn't be
doing that.
But I'm a highlighter girl, aright girl.
So do we think it's okay?
There are some folks that won'twrite in a book, like it's a
(18:39):
purity thing or something,really strange.
Um, but you know, I wonder, isit okay to write in a book or
not?
And if it's wrong, I don't wantto be right.
Lynne (18:49):
It's whatever, right?
For some people, no.
For some people, yes.
And Patty, I so am with you onthe smell.
I can I can close my eyes and beback opening the bookstore, you
know, for the first time thatday and walking in and smelling
the smell of all those newbooks.
I mean, there is no perfume likeit in the world.
(19:12):
This has nothing to do withthat.
But I'm now thinking aboutfinishing books.
Because we're talking about isit okay to write in them?
What about not finishing them?
Is it okay to start readingsomething and not finish it?
I am totally cool with notfinishing it.
But Patty, like you said,there's some people who won't
write in a book.
There's some people who feellike they must finish a book
(19:33):
once they start.
What's that about?
Um, and what makes us put itdown uh when we're reading it?
Dan (19:41):
And then to flip to the other side of that equation, how
about not even starting a book?
Like, why do so many of us buybooks that we end up not
reading, not even starting toread?
Or why do we keep buying booksif we haven't even read the ones
that are on our shelves already?
Lynne (19:56):
Patty and I are raising our hands.
We're raising both our hands.
Buying so many books.
I'm wondering, is buying booksabout hope?
Do we hope to get to that book?
Is it about comfort?
Is it about, you know, I reallyI love to read, I'm gonna buy
this book.
I like to be surrounded bybooks.
(20:16):
I don't know what that what it'sabout.
Those are the questions thatcome up.
Patti (20:20):
It's so interesting.
And I'm also going, noteveryone's a reader, and I just
want the parents out there toknow my girls are in their 20s,
I'm an author, I read.
I was a late reader and I didn'tenjoy reading until I got maybe
to junior high, and it becamekind of an escape, an expression
of creativity.
Back then, I did not know thatwriting was an art.
So, you know, once I understoodthat, it was easier to read
(20:42):
books.
And then both of my girls, avidreaders, the younger one like
me, came late to it.
So do not worry, there is hope.
So look, you know, Dan's theengineer, um, I'm the research
scientist, and Lynn is basicallythe god over all of us.
Um, so the the researchscientist to me can't help but
to look at data.
And so I found some surveyresults from three different
(21:03):
sources about this readershiptopic.
It from the US Bureau of LaborStatistics, the U.S.
Department of Education, and theNational Endowment for the Arts.
And I believe this is aboutpeople reading books, not people
listening to books.
Those are tend to be in twodifferent categories.
What they do show though is atrend to fewer Americans reading
for pleasure.
(21:24):
People are just reading less.
And, you know, I want to knowwhy is that?
Is it because we work so muchthat when we do read, we have to
do it to educate ourselves andwe don't have room for anything
else?
Is it because we're watching toomuch TV?
Is it because we're listening toaudiobooks in our commute?
Like, why are we reading less?
Lynne (21:43):
I love that so many organizations track that
information.
What does it say about us as acountry when our government is
so invested in measuring fordecades how much time Americans
spend reading?
And what does that say about howimportant reading is?
Dan (22:00):
Yeah, that the government invests in tracking that seems
to imply that there's some valuethere.
And the data does make me wondertoo, with things trending
downward, kind of like Patty wasasking, what's getting in the
way of the reading?
So there's this Pew Researchreport, and we'll put a link to
all of this research in the shownotes.
Pew Research Reports show that23% of American adults haven't
read a book in the last year.
(22:22):
Yikes, and why not?
Is it about screens?
Is it about smartphones?
Is it about other things thatcompete for our attention?
Or is it about our attentionitself?
Are just more people finding itharder to concentrate in the
year 2026, finding it harder toconcentrate long enough to even
read a book?
Lynne (22:41):
Well, and I can go on a whole riff about subtitles and
why different generations liketo have the subtitles up on
their Netflix shows.
And I'm thinking though, too, somany people say, I don't have
time to read.
(23:06):
And what aren't we reading rightnow?
And why aren't we reading it?
Patti (23:11):
You know, Lynn, as I'm listening to your questions,
it's making me wonder like, am Ireading because I want to
confirm what I already believe,or because I want to encounter
some gen, like real truechallenges to the way that I see
something or think aboutsomething?
And then what happens, like, forexample, right, when a leader
reads a book and then makeseveryone on their team read it?
(23:34):
Like what you were talkingabout, Lynn.
And by the way, I've been thatleader and I've been the
recipient of that as well,right?
Because look, it comes with goodintentions.
But I'm wondering that wholething about diverse thinking,
how could we bring that intothis topic around everyone read
the same book in order to knowthe same thing, conformity?
(23:56):
Um, and by the way, that mightbe right if we're talking about,
you know, the way we're going tooperationalize a business or
whatever, we all read it andlearn at the same time.
It goes back to am I seeking tovalidate, seeking to learn
something new, or is it a mix ofthe both?
Dan (24:11):
Ooh, and what about reading the thing that people not like
us are reading?
So, like, what would it mean toread something from our
opponent's reading list or ourrival's reading list?
How would we even know what's onthat list?
Lynne (24:24):
Hmm.
And that just gave me thisthought.
Is reading where those avoidedquestions first whisper to us if
we're listening, or in thiscase, reading for them?
Patti (24:38):
I wish there was a bell I could ring right now, you guys.
You know, kind of like in asales uh like building when
people ring the bell when theyclose a client because ding ding
ding, it's AI time.
Um, so let's go ahead and switchto that.
You knew it was coming, butlet's start with the obvious.
Would you want to read a bookthat was written by AI?
Lynne (25:01):
Oh, and what if you don't know the thing you're reading
was written by AI, but then youfind out it is?
Does that change your experienceof reading it?
Does it change your opinion ofit?
Do you like it less?
Patti (25:13):
When ChatGPT first came out, Reed Hoffman, who many of
us know in the tech world, he'sone of the co-founders of
LinkedIn.
He's a partner at BC firmGreylock, which is like, you
know, this huge investment fundfor tech startups.
And he was very open from as anearly user, like showing us Chat
GPT before it came out to thepublic, that he was using it to
(25:36):
help him write books.
And when I say help him, I meanit would furnish the first few
drafts.
He will ask it a specificquestion and then you know we'll
push it out.
And then me as a marketer,someone who employs agencies,
who employs um people who areusing AI sometimes to replace
that creative copy work, othertimes to augment it.
Do we know what's written by AI?
(25:56):
I think there are some telltalesigns, right?
We've lost our our um ownershipof the M-dash as humans, and
that's a challenge.
Dan has a really good um post onLinkedIn, I believe.
Um so check out Dan's post, andDan, I'll I'll put that in the
reference notes for folks.
But um, would you want to readan article written by AI?
I probably have, right?
(26:16):
Would I want to read a bookwritten by AI, right?
And, you know, the world we'reliving in, whether we like it or
not, is augmented and sometimesreplaced from machines and with
over, God, I can't rememberwhat, thousands of books, you
know, published every singleyear.
How does that change what getspublished and what does not get
published?
How does it change from aneditorial staff perspective on
(26:40):
online publications, on printpublications, what gets um put
in the um publication and whatdoes not?
Dan (26:48):
Yeah, so C.S.
Lewis is one of my favoriteauthors, and he said, we read to
know we're not alone.
And so when we read, we discoverthat other people have similar
experiences and feelings and allof that.
But if the book we're readingwas produced by AI instead of a
human, then I wonder if readingthat kind of book has the same
meaning as books written bypeople, the same meaning that C.
(27:08):
S.
Lewis was writing about.
One of the questions that I'mthinking of here is not just do
we want to read a book writtenby an AI, but do we want AI to
read our books?
So yeah, Patty and I both havesome money coming in from
Anthropic, from that legalsediment, whenever that gets
paid out.
Because AI did read our bookswithout paying for them.
And that's an important part ofthis.
So I think we as a society arestill working through that
(27:30):
really important question.
Is it okay for AI to read mybooks?
How should AI use the books thatit reads?
And then what does an AI companyowe to the authors of the books
that it reads?
Lynne (27:42):
I wonder if read is even the right word for what AI is
doing.
It's getting trained on books,it's deconstructing books, it's
taking them apart and using thepieces.
Can we even call that reading?
Patti (27:53):
Okay, so we're about at the end of our conversation,
which I never want to end.
And before we wrap up, let'shave, and this will be a
challenge for me, a quicklightning round.
So when it comes to reading,what do you prefer?
Fiction or nonfiction?
Lynne (28:11):
Long books or short books?
New books or old books?
Patti (28:15):
Borrow from the library or purchase from a shop.
Lynne (28:18):
Books, magazines, substack, or newspapers?
Dan (28:23):
Reading on a screen or on paper or audio versions.
Patti (28:26):
Ooh, and reading one book at a time or several at once.
Woo!
Lynne (28:32):
That was a fun lightning round.
It was really hard not to answerthose questions.
And that is our time for today.
I don't know about you two, butI am ready to go read something.
Dan (28:41):
Same here.
So here's to reading fiction ornonfiction, digital or paper,
long or short, and whatever youread, here's to asking questions
along the way.
Lynne (28:50):
So thanks for listening.
Today's episode was sponsored byWords.
Words, they make books andarticles and papers.
Our music was composed by JakeCovernal.
Our cover art was created byMads Graham.
Patti (29:04):
Catch y'all next time.
Hey everybody, welcome back to Listening for the Questions.
I'm Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And did I mention I'm an author?
I've written four books.
Number five is in the works, soI have a really close connection
with today's topic.
Patti (00:29):
Dan, I love that you said you're an author twice.
It's kind of like when you meetpeople from Harvard and they
tell you within the firstsentence they went to Harvard.
But let me introduce myself.
I'm Dr.
Patty Fletcher.
I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from Big Tech.
I'm a leadership futurist whohas been working at the
intersection of people,business, technology, and data
for maybe longer than some ofour listeners have been alive.
(00:50):
And yes, I'm a best-sellingauthor just like Dan.
And like any good writer, I'm anavid reader.
So even though I love everytopic we pick for this podcast,
today's topic is very, veryimportant and interesting to me
too.
Lynne (01:05):
And I'm Lynn Cuppernal.
I'm not an author.
I'm a leadership coach and ahealthcare consultant.
And in college, I basicallydouble majored in English.
I took so many literatureclasses, it was enough to get
two majors.
I also managed bookstores for anumber number of years in my
early 20s.
Does anyone remember B.
Dalton?
(01:26):
And I am in a book club that'sbeen meeting regularly for at
least 20 years.
And March is National ReadingMonth.
March 2nd was Read AcrossAmerica Day.
So we all have lots of excitingconnections to today's topic.
Dan (01:43):
Reading.
I'm so excited to dive in.
And I would love to start byasking you both, what are you
reading and what do you like toread?
But I'm actually not going to dothat.
I don't want to use that as ouropening question because it
feels like a dead end question,and that's not what this podcast
is about.
So instead, let's start byasking, why do you read?
What is it about reading thatfeels important to you?
(02:04):
And I think it's okay to answerthat one.
Lynne (02:06):
I'm not even sure why I read, Dan.
For me, it's like breathing.
And why do I breathe to stayalive?
This question, though, makes methink of another one, which is
what do we love about reading?
Patti (02:20):
I love the why questions, right?
I love the why questions.
And Len, I just want to go backto your intro about yourself.
You may not be the author ofbooks, but you are the author of
your own life, aren't you?
Yeah, you're welcome.
Um, okay, so you know I read formany different reasons.
I read to escape, I read um as aritual to help me go to sleep.
(02:42):
I read to educate myself.
And yes, I read to help myselfbe a better writer.
And what I love about reading isum things that help me be a
better leader, right?
Things that, yes, help me bebetter able to convey things on
a stage and in the written word.
And what happens, I don't knowabout you two, but I take bits
(03:04):
and pieces.
I could be reading somethingnonfiction and it becomes like
dot to something else incrediblethat I might be working on in
business.
But enough about me, Dan.
Thanks for letting me answer aquestion.
Um, Dan, what about you?
Dan (03:17):
Oh, I read for so many reasons, like you all touched on
as well.
I read novels at night as partof my bedtime routine, and I
genuinely think that's one ofthe reasons I sleep so well.
I read to learn, I read tochallenge myself, to relax, for
fun.
And my mom tells me that when mysiblings and I were little, she
and my dad would cuddle us andread to us.
So we all grew up associatingreading with warmth and security
(03:40):
and love.
And Kim and I did the same thingwith our two kids for the same
reason.
So I probably love readingbecause it's like a cuddle for
my brain.
How about you, Lynn?
What do you why do you love toread?
Lynne (03:51):
I love a cuddle for my brain.
Oh, I'm gonna sit with that fora second.
Like the two of you, I read tolearn too.
I love reading to learn.
And then I also read to do, Ithink, maybe the opposite of
learn, which is to just checkout and relax.
Uh, and I read to connect.
Uh, I read to connect not onlywith the people in my 20 years
(04:14):
in counting book club, but justwith other worlds, other ideas.
Um, I think those are thereasons I I like to read.
I love to read.
You know, when I think aboutreading, what are we talking
about?
Are we talking about readingbooks?
I think the three of us maybehave a bias towards books, not
just because two-thirds of usare authors.
(04:35):
Um, but reading is more thanjust books, right?
It's articles, it's newspapers.
And that got me thinking (04:41):
what biases do we bring to the topic
of reading?
Generational biases, culturalbiases, gender biases?
Dan (04:52):
Yes, let's jump into the bias questions.
Thank you.
That's one of my favorite partsof this podcast every single
time.
So, one of the questions thatcomes to mind is how much
diversity is represented on ourbookshelves?
And yes, that is a question witha recommendation baked in.
You can probably guess what itis.
But if the authors we read arehomogenous in any way, if if we
(05:12):
are reading only authors wholook or sound or come from a
certain part of the world, arewe missing out on important
perspectives?
Are we missing out on importantideas?
And then critically, what mightchange if we read books from a
more diverse set of authors?
Patti (05:29):
Dan, I'm just gonna sit with that for a little bit and
ask you a very provocativequestion.
Anyway, everybody sit down forthis one.
Dan, are you saying that boysare allowed to read books
written by girls?
Dan (05:44):
What?
What a provocative idea.
You know, Patty, I'm gonna goway out on a limb and I'm gonna
actually no wait, I was gonnamake a joke about this being a
controversial take.
But doggone it, it is acontroversial take, isn't it?
To say that boys can read bookswritten by girls and men can
read books written by women?
I mean, how many books arewritten by women and then
(06:04):
treated as if they should onlybe read by women and are only
marketed to women?
And how many men look at a bookwritten by a woman and think,
oh, that's not for me?
And let me put in a plug realquick.
Patty's book is terrific.
It's called Disruptors.
Y'all should read it.
Patti (06:17):
Damn straight, Dan.
Um, and of course, I read all ofyour books.
And by the way, listeners, um,half of my readers are now men.
And I like short form, longform, right?
I'll write and I'll read prettymuch anything, including
Instagram posts.
But when I think about thefemale authors we did read in
school, those tended to be theromance kind of things, right?
(06:38):
You know, the Wuthering Heightskind of kind of books, whereas
the male ones were abroad scope.
So that might be somethingthat's conditioned.
But I did look up the data.
When we look at readership, menare only about 19% of readers of
books that are written by women.
And this compares to women whoare 65% of readers of books
(07:01):
written by men.
So of course, the question iswhat does that say about our
cultural conditioning?
By the way, these are globalnumbers, not just US numbers.
So, what does this say about ourcultural conditioning?
And, you know, is it becausewe're conditioned in a
male-friendly system, right?
We're always gonna go back tothat stuff, right?
(07:22):
And and it's like women have tostretch so much to fit into that
system, and you know, men don'tbecause the system's made for
them.
It brings up all sorts ofquestions beyond reading.
Lynne (07:32):
Yes, and like and one that that's not even really a
good question, but that's top ofmind is why do we have chick
lit, but we don't have brobooks?
I feel like this is one of thosequestions that our our little
kid friends would be asking.
Why don't we?
And Patty, as I as I I sort ofthink about your your stats and
(07:54):
the data that you shared, whichwas super helpful.
I'm wondering, is that true forother things written by women,
or is it just books?
Dan (08:04):
Yeah, it does make me wonder if the gender of the
author is more visible in a bookbecause you see it on the cover,
and is it maybe less visible ina magazine article or a
newspaper because the byline issmaller and easier for people to
not notice, maybe?
That'd be an interesting thingto investigate.
Like, is it about booksprimarily, or does this happen
in other places as well?
Lynne (08:24):
Well, and back in the day, women would write books
under different names, eithernames that you couldn't tell if
they were a man or a woman, ormale.
I think one of the Bronte'soriginally published under the
name Kerr Bell.
There you go, double Englishmajor right there.
Dan (08:44):
Lynn, bring in the double English major.
I love it.
And I know a lot of uh femaleauthors have published with just
their initials instead ofrevealing what their first name
is.
That's another way to kind ofmask that.
So interestingly, this thisreminds me of an experiment I
did back in 2022.
Uh I knew that most of the booksI'd read were written by white
American men.
So for about a year, for all of2022, I made an effort as much
(09:07):
as I could to only read books bywomen, by people of color, and
by people from countries otherthan my own.
And that wasn't hard to findthese books, but it did take
some effort.
Like I had to pay attention.
And if the author is just twoinitials, I had to go look up.
Like, tell me more about thisauthor.
I've got to say, the authors Iread that year are now some of
my favorites.
And it really began by askingthe question: how diverse is my
(09:31):
bookshelf?
Patti (09:32):
I love your intention, Dan.
And I think it's it's soimportant.
And you're intentional ineverything you do.
You're the male, Mother Teresa.
Um, I am the antithesis.
So um I'm neither male norMother Teresa.
But, you know, I did the samething, Dan, and and as we were
prepping for this call, Irealized, you know, of I started
(09:53):
out by seeking out books thatwere written by women of color
and men of color.
And I really started um when theBlack Lives Matter movement um
started because I realized I'mreading like white people,
right?
Of course there were folks whoweren't white, but the majority
was white.
And it's become such a part ofmy reading now that I forgot I
did it.
(10:13):
It's it's really interesting.
And, you know, sometimes I willsay, folks, diversity is
difficult.
Um, and for me, like readingbeloved as an example was
really, really hard, or beloved,however you pronounce it, really
hard because I I had a hard timewith the language.
So guess what I did?
I freaking took my time, right?
I tried to figure it out.
That's the point, you know.
(10:34):
So maybe that's part of thebeauty, right?
It gives us that chance toescape, like Lynn, like you were
talking about, right, intoanother world.
And, you know, it makes mewonder as I was reading those
books, and instead of saying,this is too hard or this doesn't
relate to me, it made me startto understand culture.
And maybe that's what this mightbe about, right?
(10:56):
Are books a way for us to havepeople change their minds about
what they thought to be trueabout a culture or, you know,
something back in history?
And I'm wondering how manypeople have gone from judging to
wanting to understand more.
Lynne (11:11):
Now that's research I would like to see.
That's a really interestingquestion.
And I think that's bringing upfor me that there's an economic
dimension to this topic ofreading and equity.
Research also shows that peoplewith higher household incomes
tend to read more.
And actually, it works the otherway around.
(11:31):
People who read more tend toearn more.
And other research shows thatkids who go up surrounded by
books tend to earn more as an asadults.
I hope both my sons arelistening.
That doesn't mean you shouldstop reading when you're an
adult.
And now maybe that's becausehaving a lot of books helps with
performance of schools.
Maybe it's because having a lotof books indicates your family
(11:53):
already has some advantages.
I don't even know what myquestion is.
I guess is it what might we doto address this dimension around
reading and equity?
Patti (12:07):
It's really interesting, Lynn, as I'm listening to you
because you're talking a lotabout the social aspects of
books.
And you know, you've shared withus before that you are part of
our raging book club.
So I absolutely love that.
And it made me think about myfriend Tara McDonald, who runs
the library system in theNatick, Massachusetts, and she's
(12:27):
created the libraries as acommunity for students, right?
So they're among the books.
What if we looked at reading asa way to connect with other
people, right?
Instead of it being a solitaryact.
And what if we read more bookstogether and talked about them?
Dan (12:44):
This makes me wonder
Having your parents read booksto you as a kid, does that kind
of constitutes the very firstbook club?
In which case I guess I've beenin the same book club for 53
years now.
Um, and if we do read more bookstogether and we do talk about
them together, do we learn morefrom the books and from each
other?
Do we understand the books more?
(13:06):
Do we enjoy the books more?
And really, is there anydownside at all to reading books
together?
Lynne (13:13):
I'm not answering that.
I'm not answering that.
I can't think of one though, Ican't think of a downside.
And this got me thinking aboutsometimes what happens in
organizations, listeners, maybethis has never happened to you,
but I have occasionally been ona team where a leader reads a
book and they love the book somuch that they go out and they
(13:33):
get it for everybody else on theteam.
And then all that like we nowall have to read this book, and
there's a lot of pressure toread the book because it's your
boss telling you to read it.
What if instead of everybodyreading the same book that the
leader loved, everyone on theteam read a different business
book and brought that todiscuss?
And so you're not just talkingabout one person's book, you've
(13:57):
got 10 different books.
And what are we learning fromthese 10 different books that we
can bring to the team?
I want to try that.
Dan (14:04):
Yeah, what would happen to our organization, to our
organizational culture if wereally built a culture of book
reading and book sharing, wherepeople read a book and they
share it with everybody else,not as an obligation, but as an
invitation.
How do we build more of thatinto our teams and groups and
gatherings?
Lynne (14:21):
Which leads us, I guess, to the question of how do you
pick a book?
We've been trying to sort ofmake sure we talk about reading,
but I'm gonna hone in now on abook.
How do we pick books?
There are so many books in theworld.
Let's say it's not, you know,the leader saying, read this
book.
Where do you start?
Can you judge a book by itscover?
(14:42):
I will tell you from mybookstore days, there were a lot
of times when somebody wouldcome in looking for a book and
all they knew was that the coverwas red.
So I think sometimes people do,if not, pick a book by its
cover, relate to a book by itscover.
Dan (14:58):
So to piggyback on that question of how do you pick a
book, if you do have a typicalapproach to picking your next
book, what happens if you changethat up?
Maybe you always read books withred covers.
Now you're going to read a bookwith a blue cover.
So what if you make yourselection in some other way?
How does that change theexperience of reading?
Patti (15:15):
Gee, Dan, it reminds me of our What Makes a Great
Sandwich um podcast episodewhere I said I never order
something different once I findsomething I like.
And I'm always like, what elsewhat's on the New York Times
bestseller list?
You know, what is Oprah reading?
Do I go for the books thateverybody else recommends?
Do I go for the books that wonwhatever awards?
Or do I go for an authornobody's ever heard of, right?
(15:39):
And that nobody's talking about.
Dan (15:40):
And are you looking at me, Patty?
Am I the obscure author no one'sever heard of?
I mean, yes, I am 100% in a veryreal sense.
Aren't all books obscure?
So pardon me if I put on my mathhat for a minute.
I am an engineer after all.
There are over 340 millionpeople in the US alone.
So if a book sells a millioncopies, which is a lot, and if
(16:02):
all 1 million copies get read,which is unlikely, that means
less than one-third of 1% ofjust the US population has read
that million-seller book.
So maybe it's not so bad to bean obscure author because we
pretty much all are.
Lynne (16:17):
It does get me wondering about why people write books in
the first place.
Uh, I mean, maybe some people,lots of people hope to be that
million seller, um, but there'sprobably lots of other reasons
people decide to write a book.
I'm just curious about what theyare.
Patti (16:32):
Oh, I want to answer that one and biting the insides of my
cheeks.
Dan (16:35):
I will give a brief answer.
I just write each of my booksfor different reasons.
Some professional, somefinancial, some personal.
And I know our topic again isreading, but this sparks the
question that I want to ask ourlisteners: what would be a good
reason for you to write a book?
Lynne (16:51):
I'm letting the silence hang while the listeners think
about their answer to thatquestion.
Uh, but I'm going to pivot us alittle bit.
So when we talk about reading, alot of people ask if listening
to audiobooks, podcasts, doesthat count as reading?
That's fair.
Does listening count as reading?
(17:11):
And how is the experiencedifferent?
Dan (17:14):
You know, I've heard a lot of people ask that question.
Do audiobooks count?
And I always want to ask, oh,what do we mean by count?
Like count for what?
I know a lot of people like totrack how many books they read
in a year.
I do that too.
But it's not really acompetition, is it?
And also, do graphic novelscount?
Because I read a lot of thoseand I want to win the
competition.
Patti (17:32):
No, they don't count, Dan.
You have to take them off yourlist.
Um, let me answer that questionfor you.
Um, and by the way, just Dan,you had mentioned selling
selling a million books.
I just want listeners to knowthat, you know, most books sell
about a thousand copies andthey're considered fine, right?
If you sell 10,000 or more, it'sconsidered really freaking
awesome.
And Disruptors has passed that,well beyond that.
(17:54):
Um, it's really when you getinto those upper, you know, six,
six figures that that thingschange, but just know it takes a
lot of money and marketing tomake that happen.
So, you know what's reallyinteresting, you guys?
I have like the smell oftextbooks in my in my person now
that I'm thinking about this,and I'm thinking about how fun
it was in the beginning of theyear to get the the paper
grocery bag and cut it out andand and wrap the books.
(18:17):
And then it leads me to the factthat I tend to write in the
pages of my books, which is oneof the challenges I have with
library books or audiobooks.
I can't write right in in themargins.
And, you know, we were trainedin school that we should not be
doing that, trained in college.
If we wanted to resell ourbooks, we probably shouldn't be
doing that.
But I'm a highlighter girl, aright girl.
So do we think it's okay?
There are some folks that won'twrite in a book, like it's a
(18:39):
purity thing or something,really strange.
Um, but you know, I wonder, isit okay to write in a book or
not?
And if it's wrong, I don't wantto be right.
Lynne (18:49):
It's whatever, right?
For some people, no.
For some people, yes.
And Patty, I so am with you onthe smell.
I can I can close my eyes and beback opening the bookstore, you
know, for the first time thatday and walking in and smelling
the smell of all those newbooks.
I mean, there is no perfume likeit in the world.
(19:12):
This has nothing to do withthat.
But I'm now thinking aboutfinishing books.
Because we're talking about isit okay to write in them?
What about not finishing them?
Is it okay to start readingsomething and not finish it?
I am totally cool with notfinishing it.
But Patty, like you said,there's some people who won't
write in a book.
There's some people who feellike they must finish a book
(19:33):
once they start.
What's that about?
Um, and what makes us put itdown uh when we're reading it?
Dan (19:41):
And then to flip to the other side of that equation, how
about not even starting a book?
Like, why do so many of us buybooks that we end up not
reading, not even starting toread?
Or why do we keep buying booksif we haven't even read the ones
that are on our shelves already?
Lynne (19:56):
Patty and I are raising our hands.
We're raising both our hands.
Buying so many books.
I'm wondering, is buying booksabout hope?
Do we hope to get to that book?
Is it about comfort?
Is it about, you know, I reallyI love to read, I'm gonna buy
this book.
I like to be surrounded bybooks.
(20:16):
I don't know what that what it'sabout.
Those are the questions thatcome up.
Patti (20:20):
It's so interesting.
And I'm also going, noteveryone's a reader, and I just
want the parents out there toknow my girls are in their 20s,
I'm an author, I read.
I was a late reader and I didn'tenjoy reading until I got maybe
to junior high, and it becamekind of an escape, an expression
of creativity.
Back then, I did not know thatwriting was an art.
So, you know, once I understoodthat, it was easier to read
(20:42):
books.
And then both of my girls, avidreaders, the younger one like
me, came late to it.
So do not worry, there is hope.
So look, you know, Dan's theengineer, um, I'm the research
scientist, and Lynn is basicallythe god over all of us.
Um, so the the researchscientist to me can't help but
to look at data.
And so I found some surveyresults from three different
(21:03):
sources about this readershiptopic.
It from the US Bureau of LaborStatistics, the U.S.
Department of Education, and theNational Endowment for the Arts.
And I believe this is aboutpeople reading books, not people
listening to books.
Those are tend to be in twodifferent categories.
What they do show though is atrend to fewer Americans reading
for pleasure.
(21:24):
People are just reading less.
And, you know, I want to knowwhy is that?
Is it because we work so muchthat when we do read, we have to
do it to educate ourselves andwe don't have room for anything
else?
Is it because we're watching toomuch TV?
Is it because we're listening toaudiobooks in our commute?
Like, why are we reading less?
Lynne (21:43):
I love that so many organizations track that
information.
What does it say about us as acountry when our government is
so invested in measuring fordecades how much time Americans
spend reading?
And what does that say about howimportant reading is?
Dan (22:00):
Yeah, that the government invests in tracking that seems
to imply that there's some valuethere.
And the data does make me wondertoo, with things trending
downward, kind of like Patty wasasking, what's getting in the
way of the reading?
So there's this Pew Researchreport, and we'll put a link to
all of this research in the shownotes.
Pew Research Reports show that23% of American adults haven't
read a book in the last year.
(22:22):
Yikes, and why not?
Is it about screens?
Is it about smartphones?
Is it about other things thatcompete for our attention?
Or is it about our attentionitself?
Are just more people finding itharder to concentrate in the
year 2026, finding it harder toconcentrate long enough to even
read a book?
Lynne (22:41):
Well, and I can go on a whole riff about subtitles and
why different generations liketo have the subtitles up on
their Netflix shows.
And I'm thinking though, too, somany people say, I don't have
time to read.
(23:06):
And what aren't we reading rightnow?
And why aren't we reading it?
Patti (23:11):
You know, Lynn, as I'm listening to your questions,
it's making me wonder like, am Ireading because I want to
confirm what I already believe,or because I want to encounter
some gen, like real truechallenges to the way that I see
something or think aboutsomething?
And then what happens, like, forexample, right, when a leader
reads a book and then makeseveryone on their team read it?
(23:34):
Like what you were talkingabout, Lynn.
And by the way, I've been thatleader and I've been the
recipient of that as well,right?
Because look, it comes with goodintentions.
But I'm wondering that wholething about diverse thinking,
how could we bring that intothis topic around everyone read
the same book in order to knowthe same thing, conformity?
(23:56):
Um, and by the way, that mightbe right if we're talking about,
you know, the way we're going tooperationalize a business or
whatever, we all read it andlearn at the same time.
It goes back to am I seeking tovalidate, seeking to learn
something new, or is it a mix ofthe both?
Dan (24:11):
Ooh, and what about reading the thing that people not like
us are reading?
So, like, what would it mean toread something from our
opponent's reading list or ourrival's reading list?
How would we even know what's onthat list?
Lynne (24:24):
Hmm.
And that just gave me thisthought.
Is reading where those avoidedquestions first whisper to us if
we're listening, or in thiscase, reading for them?
Patti (24:38):
I wish there was a bell I could ring right now, you guys.
You know, kind of like in asales uh like building when
people ring the bell when theyclose a client because ding ding
ding, it's AI time.
Um, so let's go ahead and switchto that.
You knew it was coming, butlet's start with the obvious.
Would you want to read a bookthat was written by AI?
Lynne (25:01):
Oh, and what if you don't know the thing you're reading
was written by AI, but then youfind out it is?
Does that change your experienceof reading it?
Does it change your opinion ofit?
Do you like it less?
Patti (25:13):
When ChatGPT first came out, Reed Hoffman, who many of
us know in the tech world, he'sone of the co-founders of
LinkedIn.
He's a partner at BC firmGreylock, which is like, you
know, this huge investment fundfor tech startups.
And he was very open from as anearly user, like showing us Chat
GPT before it came out to thepublic, that he was using it to
(25:36):
help him write books.
And when I say help him, I meanit would furnish the first few
drafts.
He will ask it a specificquestion and then you know we'll
push it out.
And then me as a marketer,someone who employs agencies,
who employs um people who areusing AI sometimes to replace
that creative copy work, othertimes to augment it.
Do we know what's written by AI?
(25:56):
I think there are some telltalesigns, right?
We've lost our our um ownershipof the M-dash as humans, and
that's a challenge.
Dan has a really good um post onLinkedIn, I believe.
Um so check out Dan's post, andDan, I'll I'll put that in the
reference notes for folks.
But um, would you want to readan article written by AI?
I probably have, right?
(26:16):
Would I want to read a bookwritten by AI, right?
And, you know, the world we'reliving in, whether we like it or
not, is augmented and sometimesreplaced from machines and with
over, God, I can't rememberwhat, thousands of books, you
know, published every singleyear.
How does that change what getspublished and what does not get
published?
How does it change from aneditorial staff perspective on
(26:40):
online publications, on printpublications, what gets um put
in the um publication and whatdoes not?
Dan (26:48):
Yeah, so C.S.
Lewis is one of my favoriteauthors, and he said, we read to
know we're not alone.
And so when we read, we discoverthat other people have similar
experiences and feelings and allof that.
But if the book we're readingwas produced by AI instead of a
human, then I wonder if readingthat kind of book has the same
meaning as books written bypeople, the same meaning that C.
(27:08):
S.
Lewis was writing about.
One of the questions that I'mthinking of here is not just do
we want to read a book writtenby an AI, but do we want AI to
read our books?
So yeah, Patty and I both havesome money coming in from
Anthropic, from that legalsediment, whenever that gets
paid out.
Because AI did read our bookswithout paying for them.
And that's an important part ofthis.
So I think we as a society arestill working through that
(27:30):
really important question.
Is it okay for AI to read mybooks?
How should AI use the books thatit reads?
And then what does an AI companyowe to the authors of the books
that it reads?
Lynne (27:42):
I wonder if read is even the right word for what AI is
doing.
It's getting trained on books,it's deconstructing books, it's
taking them apart and using thepieces.
Can we even call that reading?
Patti (27:53):
Okay, so we're about at the end of our conversation,
which I never want to end.
And before we wrap up, let'shave, and this will be a
challenge for me, a quicklightning round.
So when it comes to reading,what do you prefer?
Fiction or nonfiction?
Lynne (28:11):
Long books or short books?
New books or old books?
Patti (28:15):
Borrow from the library or purchase from a shop.
Lynne (28:18):
Books, magazines, substack, or newspapers?
Dan (28:23):
Reading on a screen or on paper or audio versions.
Patti (28:26):
Ooh, and reading one book at a time or several at once.
Woo!
Lynne (28:32):
That was a fun lightning round.
It was really hard not to answerthose questions.
And that is our time for today.
I don't know about you two, butI am ready to go read something.
Dan (28:41):
Same here.
So here's to reading fiction ornonfiction, digital or paper,
long or short, and whatever youread, here's to asking questions
along the way.
Lynne (28:50):
So thanks for listening.
Today's episode was sponsored byWords.
Words, they make books andarticles and papers.
Our music was composed by JakeCovernal.
Our cover art was created byMads Graham.
Patti (29:04):
Catch y'all next time.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.