April 28, 2026 • 34 mins
What Are the Questions We Should Be Asking When We Talk About Different Generations?
Gen X was originally called the baby busters. The silent generation is called silent. And somewhere along the way, somebody decided that Gen Y needed a rebrand while Gen Z is still waiting for one. Who exactly is making these decisions, and why do we care so much?
This is the season two finale of Listening for the Questions, and Dr. Patti Fletcher, Lynne Cuppernull, and Dan Ward went out swinging. The topic is generations, and it gets complicated fast. Because the more you pull at the question of generational differences, the more you realize you are not really talking about birth years. You are talking about the moments that shaped entire populations of people before they even knew they were being shaped. The Challenger explosion. September 11th. The moment every parent in a college auditorium raised their hand to admit they gave their kid a cell phone for safety reasons and called it parenting.
The questions this episode asks are the ones worth writing down: What are we actually getting wrong about millennials and Gen Z the same way we got the slacker narrative wrong about Gen X? Is each generation's identity locked in by their early twenties, or is that just the conventional wisdom we keep repeating? What does each generation actually want from work, and how much of that is shaped by the economy they walked into rather than the year they were born? Can we look at generations not just as birth cohorts but as groups of people who experienced something significant together at the same time? And what is the Gen Z stare actually a rebellion against?
Also on the table: AI as the new electricity, the entry-level jobs that are disappearing before Gen Z even gets to them, why Gen X adopting AI might be making it uncool, and Lynne's gift to every manager who has ever felt stuck across a generational divide: the questions you can actually ask.
This is the season two finale. They will be back. But in the meantime, keep your curiosity going.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Where Millennials End and Gen Z Begins: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/01/17/where-millennials-end-and-generation-z-begins
- Gen X’ers Aren’t Slackers After All: https://web.archive.org/web/20160701074918/http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,221136,00.html
- Generation X Reconsidered: https://web.archive.org/web/20160911121441/https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-22449092.html
- Gen Z Stare: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-clarity/202507/the-psychology-behind-that-gen-z-stare
- Chat GPT fed his students easy answers, so he built an app to argue with them, Susan Svrluga, Washington Post: https://wapo.st/415YOQP
Listening for the Questions is where curiosity is our compass.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan (00:14):
Hello and welcome back to Listening for the Questions, a
podcast the whole family canenjoy.
My name's Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and a militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And I'm a proud Gen Xer.
I'm also old enough to rememberback when Gen X was called the
slacker generation, I gotta saythat's a term I never identified
with.
Lynne (00:32):
And I'm Lynnee Cuppernull.
I'm a leadership coach and ahealthcare consultant.
I am also a triathlete, sodefinitely not a slacker.
Well, most of the time.
I'm also a proud member of GenX, who I have to say seems to be
a generation that's gettingprouder with age.
Patti (00:49):
And I'm Dr.
Patti Fletcher.
I always wanted to be aslacker, but it gave me agita.
So I just couldn't do it.
Um, I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from big tech, a
leadership futurist working atthe intersection of people,
business, technology, and data,a best-selling author, and I
have been so looking forward tothis episode for a long time
(01:13):
because we're talking aboutgenerational cohorts.
Specifically, what are thequestions we should be asking
when we talk about differentgenerations?
Lynne (01:23):
We've all heard the terms baby boomers, Gen X, that's all
three of us, even though Pattidid not proudly give it a shout
out.
Um, millennials, Gen Z, GenAlpha, but uh does anyone else
have a hard time remembering thespecific cutoff dates for those
generations?
So maybe we start there.
What are these generationswe're talking about?
Patti (01:45):
Lynne, I'm so happy you called me out.
Of course, I'm doing my typicalgiggling um because I am such a
proud Gen Xer.
People, it's important to knowthis.
I'm very, very conceited aboutmany things.
My friend group, I'm a memberof Gen X.
I am Scorpio, um, moon, and sunrising.
My birthday is the best ever.
(02:06):
Um, so those are all of mythings.
Yes, Gen X is at the top ofthat list.
All right, so Lynne, I can'thelp myself.
I need to ask for permissionfrom you and Dan.
Can I answer your questionabout yes, yes, yes, answer
away.
Thank you.
Yes, Christmas came early.
Okay.
So, first of all, you know, thethe I spend a lot of time here,
(02:28):
right, because of my work andgenerations, and it kind of
depends those dates on who youask.
I mean, there's not asignificant, you know,
difference, but generally babyboomers are 1946 to 1964, Gen X
is 1965 to 1980, millennials are1981 to 1996, Gen Z is 1997 to
(02:56):
2012, and Gen Alpha is 2012 topresent day.
Dan (03:03):
So it sounds like the generations are about 15 years
plus or minus.
And as you kind of go throughthat rundown, it had me
wondering when will Gen Z andGen Alpha get their own labels?
Like millennials used to becalled Gen Y because they came
after Gen X and Y is after that,and then Gen Z was next, and
then we go back to the beginningof the alphabet for Gen Alpha.
(03:24):
But why are all the othergenerations' names based on Gen
X as like the starting point?
And really, if Gen Y can becomemillennials, because nobody
calls them Gen Y anymore, isn'tit about time Gen Z got their
own name?
Patti (03:38):
I can't help but think about my puppy dog and her
zoomies when I think about that.
And having, you know, each ofus has children, right, in in
Gen Z.
And it does make me laugh, butI really hope they aren't called
Zoomers, um, although I thinksome of us may call them that.
Dan (03:55):
Yeah, so uh fun fact, speaking of generational names,
did you know Gen Xers wereoriginally called baby busters?
Because there was a big drop inbirth rates after the baby
boomers.
So they went from baby boomersto baby busters.
I'm so glad they changed thatname.
Lynne (04:11):
I'm laughing because I mean, who is they?
Who gets to pick the names forthese groups?
And just staying with theunfortunate names for a second,
the group before the boomers issometimes called the silent
generation.
And I've always wondered howthey feel about being called
that.
I guess because they're silent,we may never know.
(04:31):
And prior to the early 1900s,those generations they didn't
even seem to have a label.
So why did we decide that weneed to start labeling these
generations?
Did generations have labels inthe 1800s or the 1500s?
Right.
Dan (04:47):
And then, like, whether they had labels or not, I do
wonder, were there really bigdifferences between generations
in previous centuries?
Like, if life was fairlyconsistent for hundreds of
years, my dad was a farmer, hisdad was a farmer, we're all
farmers as far back as anybodycan remember.
Like, would the concept of agenerational cohort have made
much sense to people in like the1200s?
Lynne (05:09):
Ooh, and that gets me wondering why the concept of
generational differences is sostrong today.
I mean, that's really a lot youhear so many people talking
about tensions between thegenerations and frustrations,
particularly at work.
Um, so what do we actually meanwhen we say generational
differences?
(05:29):
Are we talking about age, lifestage, ability to use your
phone, something else?
And why do so many of usidentify so strongly with those
labels like boomers or thisproud Generation X?
Or is it maybe just GenerationX?
Who does?
I'm afraid maybe it is.
(05:51):
So do different generations dothey have the same sense of
identity?
Do Gen Zers think of themselvesas Gen Z in the same way that
Gen Xers do?
Probably not.
Patti (06:02):
I don't think they have the mental or intellectual
capacity, Lynne, for that.
Dan (06:08):
Shots fired.
Wow.
Patti (06:11):
Yeah.
Um, and you know, it's it'sinteresting when I when I think
about generational differences,uh, until I heard what what you
just had to say, Lynne, I didn'trealize that other people
didn't have those separations,you know, throughout it's always
been called out.
My sisters are part of adifferent generation.
It's also interesting presenttime that watching my children,
(06:34):
Gen Zers, really not beimpressed with Gen Alphas,
right?
And so hearing them kind ofcomplain a lot, and I'm like,
look in the mirror, buddy.
Um, and also just music, right?
So my father um grew up in avery um blue-collar, very white
family, and um he really likedMotown and he liked all of these
(06:55):
other kinds of genres of music,rock and roll, that maybe his
family wasn't too fond ofbecause they were afraid of what
they represented.
And so I was always very awarethat younger generation is
always going to question oldergeneration, and that also my
godfather was a hippie, he was adraft dodging, you know, all
that stuff.
And he is probably the mostconservative guy I know now.
(07:17):
So it's also interesting whathappens as the generation ages.
But for me, this has been partof my life, you know, forever
because I work on workforce umgenerations, right?
So, what are the newgenerations that are entering
the workplace?
How do they change over time?
And how do they prepare us forthat?
(07:38):
So I look at things like whatwas the impact of 9-11 on the
kids who were born around it,who were in high school at the
time, right?
It was such a pivotal moment.
So it's not just the years,right?
You can imagine in the 70s, theVietnam War going on, all of
those, you know, kinds ofmarching in the streets, not
something this country really,you know, had seen before.
(08:00):
From a workforce perspective,we were very focused on
millennials as digital natives,right?
Very focused in on Gen Z as AInatives, instant gratification,
not having to look someone inthe eye face to face, using
texting so you don't usecomplete sentences, right?
All of those things that weassociate with humanity,
(08:20):
communication, and being able tofocus in on those.
But but ultimately, I guess myquestion is for me, is it really
about the generation when Ithink about work?
Is it about the generationaldifferences, or is it because of
experiences that it's what arethe generational expectations of
the world around them?
(08:41):
It feels like that is a goodquestion to ask.
Dan (08:45):
Oh, Patti, I love that.
There's so much to unpackthere.
And you know, when we think ofto use the example of
millennials as digital natives,because they grew up with this
digital world, that gets methinking that I want to flip the
question around a little bitand ask, what are the
environmental influences thatactually do affect an entire
generation like the internet orlike 9-11?
And what are these things thathave a big, like consistent
(09:08):
effect on everyone?
We each might individuallyrespond differently to stuff
like MTV or social media orglobal warming.
But like when sociologists lookat a big group, a generational
cohort, they do see trends, theysee similarities coming from
these significant influences.
So I'm not a sociologist.
That is beyond the scope of myeducation.
(09:28):
So I actually just don't know.
What are the things in ageneral sense that shape and
define any generation?
And then are there consistentattributes that these influences
share?
I just think that'd be aninteresting thing to know.
Lynne (09:43):
Yes, yes.
I'm I'm going with you there,Dan.
We think of things like wars.
Uh, World War II was such ashaping event uh for the silent
generation and really the babyboomers, too.
Um uh oh, presidentialadministrations, um, and
thinking about differentpresidential administrations or
(10:05):
new technologies or the moonlanding.
So we're recording this the dayafter the Artemis launch, and
it had been so many years sincethere had been a moon launch,
and that was really a shapingevent for that generation.
And I'm wondering, I don'tthink that the Artemis launch is
gonna be the same type ofshaping event.
(10:27):
Um, I think about theChallenger explosion.
That was such a pivotal momentfor Generation X, right?
Everybody can still rememberwhere they were, right?
Probably in like math classtaking a test when that
happened, or you were, you know,everybody was watching it on
TV.
Anyway, I'm digressing a littlebit.
Because what I'm wondering isif those are the big things,
(10:50):
what's the smallest possiblething that could influence a
whole generation?
Smaller than a war, smallerthan a president, smaller than a
moon landing, more localizedthan climate change.
Patti (11:03):
I I love that.
Just a little fun fact.
I did meet Christina Koch um atthe White House um during the
um State of Women that thatObama had conference, and I have
quite a few photos um with her,and she was incredible.
That was in 2016, and and sheis she is incredible, excuse me.
And Lynne, I really wish peoplepaid attention because look at
(11:26):
the diversity going around themoon.
And isn't that something?
So, you know, I just want toshare a really quick story, and
I'll try to make it quickbecause I'm me and that's gonna
be a challenge.
Linda, you know, you tipped offsomething when you were
thinking about and and you know,pontificating around like what
about the big things and thelittle things?
And are there things we wouldsee as a before and after?
And what are the small things?
(11:47):
And I don't think there's asmoking gun, I think it's many.
So a few years ago, as mydaughter, my younger one, was
getting into URI, I went to whatwas the best college
orientation I had everexperienced.
The dean of the URI school gotup on stage and he was saying
how it's been really interestingin higher ed um to see the ways
(12:09):
in which the people who decidewho goes to their school and who
stays in their school, how theyview parents and what they have
seen over the years in terms ofparents um kind of letting
their kids grow up.
And now, you know, everyone's ahelicopter parent, right up
until kind of thing, you know,in their 20s.
And so he asked us in this bigauditorium um, how many of you
(12:32):
gave your kids cell phones atwhatever age?
And we all, you know, it waslike age 10 or whatever, hands
open up.
How many of you thought it wastoo early?
Hands holding up.
How many of you did thatbecause you did it for safety?
All of our hands went up.
And he said that was pivotal.
He said, Of course it was 9-11,right?
We are all post-9-11, but thenwe have all this technology that
(12:55):
helps us have this control.
And so, Lynne, listening toyou, I'm thinking, what are all
of those factors?
9-11, especially in the areathat we're all in in the
Northeast.
And Dan, you and I, because ofLogan Airport, and you know, you
may know people I was supposedto be in tower two right that
day, couldn't be there.
So all of these things withtechnology, there are big and
(13:16):
little things we don't evennotice.
I didn't know other parents.
And I thought, wow, whenlistening to you, not just
marking a generation Gen X, wedo the grit, but we also have a
little bit of millennial in us,right?
We we have those things.
But me as a generationalperson, who I was and how that
(13:36):
has changed as a parent, as aGen Xer, is is pretty
interesting.
So, you know, what are thosethings that we can tell are
influential?
I I think I knew I knewSeptember 11th changed me.
I knew the pandemic changed us,right?
I knew it changed my children.
Um, but yeah, maybe some thingsrequire hindsight, you know,
(13:58):
you know, a decade hindsight.
I know certainly in my own lifethey do, but I do wonder that.
What will we see when we lookback?
Dan (14:05):
Speaking of looking back and looking forward, uh, I
assume you both watched or heardabout the the launch yesterday.
We talked about the launcharound the moon.
As Gen Xers, how did you feelknowing that they were about to
light off this big rocket?
Anyone else feeling a littlebit of you know, shuttle uh
PTSD?
Patti (14:21):
I remember exactly where I was, Mr.
Tinto's class, yes, andwatching that.
And here's the thing (14:26):
I read something that was interesting,
generational difference.
The TV was rolled back into thecloset and we went on with our
day.
There was no talking about it,there was none of that.
And I don't now there would becounselors, there would be
emails, right?
So it was also the generationalresponse of the baby boomers
(14:46):
and that silent generation iscalled the traditionalists,
right?
They were members of that nononsense, you know, kind of
world.
Yeah.
I hear you, Dan.
I I still take a little bit ofa when that happens.
Dan (14:59):
Yeah, because that singular moment still affects the way we
process and experience and feelnews events today.
So it does seem like theseinfluences tend to be things
that show up at an early stagein a generation's development.
Like anybody could watch MTV inthe early 80s, but Gen X became
the MTV generation because ofhow young we were when it came
(15:20):
out and it influenced usdifferently than it influenced
our parents.
Or like today, anybody can havea social media account, but
social media shaped themillennials in a significant way
differently than the othergenerations.
So is each generation'sdefining attributes locked in by
the time we're in our 20s?
But then, Patti, you know, youdid mention like sometimes they
(15:41):
do change over time as we getolder and more conservative or
less conservative.
Lynne (15:46):
Yeah, that's interesting, Dan.
I think I think theconventional wisdom is that they
are locked in.
And I think we are seeing thatthat is not true, right?
That there are shifts.
And Facebook, which started aslike something cool, that you
know, the Facebook for collegekids has now been taken over by
(16:08):
uh not just the baby boomers,but even the greatest
generation.
And so it's no longer cool.
Anyway, I just think it's aninteresting question.
Uh, on the face of it, yes, thedefining attributes are locked
in in our by our early 20s, butthat's actually not the reality.
And I think that is gonna takeus into our next concept, which
is really about at work, right?
(16:29):
These generational differencesand key moments and how they
show up at work.
They do really often surface astensions in the workplace.
I mean, I've seen it, I've hadfriends that I've talked about
it with.
Um, and so I want to ask somequestions about these
generational tensions and justbeing together in the workplace.
(16:51):
And so I'm curious, like, whatdoes each generation want from
work?
And how much of that wanting isshaped by the economy when
they're entering the workforce,not just when they're born.
Patti (17:05):
Yeah, it's true, seeing what their parents go through as
they're growing up when itcomes to relationship with work.
And, you know, then that bringsme to in therefore the tension,
right?
Those differences and what dowe want from work?
What are our expectations fromwork?
We can we feel that, right, asGen Xers.
We we certainly probably haveour opinions on the other
generations, but that tension atwork, and you know what else
(17:28):
hit me, Dan, when you weretalking about um, when you were
talking about the space shuttlein in and um Lynne, was Dan and
I had just a wonderfulexperience.
And Dan, I will be forevergrateful to you for bringing me
into this workshop we did, Ithink it was over two days at
the National Academy ofSciences, right?
And it was for NASA, and NASAwas focused in on the future of
(17:50):
innovation at NASA.
And one thing I learned therethat I probably should have
known was they look atgenerations based on manned
flights.
And those generations areimpacted by the loss of human
life in those manned flights.
So generations are not justpotentially, or can we look at
(18:10):
generations?
I'm not gonna answer it.
Can we look at generations, notjust the time we were born, but
the time we were together witha big population of people and
experience something?
I know I can, right?
Working at like an SAP in theearly days.
I was part of that generation,which is very different, which
was all mixed generations,right?
So um, like how do we thinkabout stuff like that?
(18:32):
And, you know, how do thosedifferent wants and needs, based
on those experiences we have asa collective or based on who we
were conditioned to be as partof an actual year generation,
how do we get them to help uswork together, find common
ground versus always, and we'vespent the last however many
minutes, 19 minutes, we've beenrecording on the differences
(18:55):
versus the common ground ofthings.
Dan (18:58):
The military has a similar concept of year groups.
So, you know, two officers meetup and you ask, like, well,
when did you get commissioned?
When did you join the military?
And we were lieutenantstogether, and then we were
majors together, and then youknow, you go on.
So it is interesting to havethe you know, this group of
majors looking at the new batchof lieutenants and thinking,
kids these days, right?
And I think this is wherecuriosity can be really helpful.
(19:20):
You know, when we notice thesedifferences, what does it look
like to be genuinely curiousabout someone's generational
experience or desires or wants?
And Lynne, I love that youasked the question, what do the
gen what do the differentgenerations want?
Instead of just tolerating itor criticizing it or complaining
about it.
So, what are some of thecurious questions that people
(19:43):
could ask when we notice thesetypes of things?
Lynne (19:45):
Okay, and I'm I'm gonna answer that one.
Don't be jealous, Patti.
Um, but because I'm answeringwith questions, I don't think it
really counts.
Uh and the reason I want to Iwant our to give our listeners
some of these questions isbecause there's so much talk
about curiosity and leaning intocuriosity and curiosity being a
leadership superpower, but it'snot always easy to be curious.
(20:08):
And so here's a here's a gift,here's a few questions that you
could consider asking aboutgenerational differences or just
generations in in general.
Um, so here's one.
What do you think people,either younger or older,
depending on who's asking,fundamentally misunderstand
(20:30):
about your relationship to work?
Or for younger generations toask older ones, what did you
have to unlearn when theworkplace changed around you?
And finally, for maybe theolder generations to ask each
other, what's something ayounger colleague does that you
admire, but you haven't said outloud or told them about?
Patti (20:52):
Well, if I wasn't allowed to answer questions that Dan
has, and you are Lynne, you gotthe job.
Those are excellent, excellentquestions.
They really are, and and reallymaking me think.
And I have one more I want toadd, and that is like, what
question about your owngenerational experience have you
never been asked, but youreally wish someone would ask
(21:15):
you?
Dan (21:15):
Oh, Patti, I love that addition too.
That's terrific.
Uh, and I do want to point outlike our conversation so far has
all been very US-centric.
Like we're talking aboutAmerican generations.
Not every country had a babyboom at the same time the US
did.
MTV didn't have the same impactaround the whole world at the
same time as it did here in thecontinental, you know, '48.
(21:36):
So when we talk about thesegenerations, maybe we should
also ask how do people in othercountries experience these
differences and these shifts?
Lynne (21:46):
And how do they experience them?
And you know, this is one ofour favorite ones.
Who benefits?
Who benefits from generationallabels?
Who benefits in the US?
Who maybe benefits if there areeven Generational labels, and I
think there are in differentcertain cultures.
Um, who benefits from them?
I mean, I think Patti, youprobably would second this, but
(22:08):
marketing people probably do.
Patti (22:11):
We sure do.
Yeah, we sure do.
Um, we we love a generational,right?
Because it there are thoseattributes.
Um, and you know, I I thinkabout this too.
I'm also a research scientist.
And so the kind of work I dowhen it comes to the future of
work and when it comes togender, I look very deeply at
(22:32):
things like generationaldifferences.
And Dan, thank you for bringingup the global viewpoint,
because I raise my hand to say,absolutely, I'm a Western
culture girl, and I do need thatbias um unchecked.
So, so thank you for that,because that's really important.
But there are all kinds ofresearchers, right?
So, Dan, you mentionedsociologists, but there are
(22:52):
economists, there are politicalscientists, you know, all of
those folks.
And you know when I think aboutthese labels and groupings and
my own use around analyzingthem, right?
The trends that go with them,the the trends as individuals,
the trends as groups, I I can'thelp but kind of question am I
(23:13):
doing it because it makes myresearch more coherent?
And by the way, is that not abad benefit, right?
As long as I'm not using themas labels, but maybe is it okay
that I use them as a way tounderstand populations of people
and how they're viewingwhatever it is that I'm focused
on.
Dan (23:30):
Oh, Patti, I love that.
Using these labels to increaseour understanding of the world
around us, that makes a lot ofsense.
That sounds like a reallyuseful framework.
And it does kind of beg thequestion about like dark
patterns, the people who usethese frameworks not just to
study and understand, but tolike manipulate or control big
(23:51):
groups of people.
How do we avoid falling downthat kind of a rabbit hole when
a framework like this has apositive use and maybe a
negative or an exploitive use aswell?
Lynne (24:01):
Well, Dan, you teed it up for me.
So guess what?
Dan (24:04):
I'm gonna bring up AI before Patti gets a chance to
when Lynne gets to answerquestions, you get to answer
questions and bring up AI first.
Lynne (24:13):
I think Lynne is winning this episode.
All right, this is my favoriteepisode.
Um so here we go.
AI.
How do gener differentgenerations approach AI?
And do different generationshave different benefits and
(24:33):
different harms from AI?
Are they using it differentlyand are they seeing different
opportunities and threats?
Patti (24:40):
So, you know, one of the trends we're seeing, right, is
AI is taking over some of theentry-level jobs, even higher
level, but entry level.
So now that I'm doing morecollege circuit stuff and I find
out what um the students arefocused on, and my question is
always, how is AI beingincorporated?
When I hear what they'refocused on, all I think about is
you're not gonna have a job,right?
(25:00):
So it's it's really difficult.
And so when I think about AIand the harm, is it harm, by the
way?
I don't know if this is harm orit's simply evolution that Gen
Z is disproportionately impactedbecause those entry-level jobs
are the ones that leaders arefocusing AI on, which by the
(25:21):
way, makes sense.
I just don't necessarily knowif my question would be framed
with harm, uh, or it should beimpact.
And perhaps the real questionis there is the educational
system the problem when it comesto AI and the generations?
Are we using antiquated ways ofteaching and learning and the
(25:44):
tools we bring in that don'tactually represent the world
around us?
How do we go from, you know,those philosophy things that are
important in bedrock?
Are we doing a disservice,right?
So are we not keeping up withthose generations?
And um, but you know, goingback to growing up in an AI
(26:04):
world as an AI native seems likeit also creates opportunities
that older generations won'thave access to simply because
they don't think that way.
They think in an old,antiquated way.
So, like, which is it, right?
Is it is it that you know it'sgonna help us, benefit us?
Is it that it's going to keepcertain generations out?
Lynne (26:26):
Yeah.
So, first of all, I just wantto say if we're gonna put this
in the show notes, I just readan article in the post today
about this teacher who hastrained in AI to be much more of
a challenger teacher.
Um, so he saw his students wereusing AI.
He was like, okay, this is theworld I'm living in.
Let me create an agent that canreally help them learn.
(26:49):
So I'll find that article.
We'll put it in the show notesbecause I think, Patti, that's
getting to your point around howdo we change our educational
systems?
The good news is some of thesereally smart teachers are
already doing it and thinkingabout it.
And something I'm hearingabout, both from friends with
Gen Z kids and seeing it myselfwith my own Gen Z kids, one of
(27:09):
whom is a teacher, is a bit of agenerational backlash from them
about AI.
And I don't think it's becausethey're worried about it taking
their jobs.
I mean, maybe they should be,but I don't think that's the
where the backlash is comingfrom.
It seems like it may be morerelated to this emerging need to
(27:29):
connect IRL, which I knowactually only Gen X says now,
and so that's not cool.
Um, and maybe the fact that GenX is doubling down on AI, which
is also making it uncool.
Uh, so I'm just I'm wondering alittle bit about that.
Um, but then also, like wetalked about earlier, how how
generations change over time.
(27:50):
Uh Gen X was described asslackers in the 80s.
Did we continue to be slackersas we got older?
The answer is no, but maybethat's because we we never were.
Dan (28:01):
I love that question and yay for another answer.
And you know, as we think aboutAI and the generations and the
generational differences, aquestion that popped into my
head is does anyone think AI isgoing to go away?
Like, do any of thesegenerations as a cohort think
it's going to go away?
Are they more skeptical aboutthe continued viability of this
as a particular type oftechnology?
(28:21):
And, you know, what are theimplications of that belief?
But back to the Gen X thing.
So I did find an article from2002.
So, like 24 years ago, if I'mdoing my public math correctly,
it had some really nice thingsto say about our generation.
We'll put a link to this one inthe show notes as well.
So the author is Patrick Reddy,and he wrote that Gen X has,
quote, reversed every bad socialtrend from the last four
(28:46):
decades, despite getting littlehelp from either their families
or the government.
Bam! Not bad for a bunch ofslackers, right?
So I think that kind of answersone of the questions you asked
earlier, Lynne, but it also asksa new one if Gen X wasn't
actually a bunch of slackers.
If we really did reverse everybad social trend from the past
four decades, which, come on,that's a dubious claim.
(29:07):
But if that's true, that makesme wonder what are we getting
wrong about the millennials andthe Gen Zers now?
Like what stories about themare we holding on to that aren't
serving us and that aren'tserving them because they're
just not based in reality.
Patti (29:22):
Okay, I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say I have
not one example, but I do thinkwe reversed all the bad
decisions.
Um, all of them.
Four decades worth.
Dan (29:32):
Four decades worth, yes.
Patti (29:34):
And listening to the two of you talk about AI and Dan,
your questions around do peopleessentially think it's a phase,
there were people that thoughtthe internet was a phase.
And and when we think about AI,it's really interesting for me
to sit here and listen and go,gosh, Gen X really does seem to
be good at accepting things forhow they are and not um
(29:54):
submitting to them, right?
And when I think about howthings are, many of us know that
AI is the new electricity.
Where previous generations wentelectricity, or my God, the TV,
which changed everything,right?
Were there folks when, like bythe time their parents thought
electricity or the TV was cool,that the younger generations
were like, no, it's not, right?
(30:14):
So it's it's such aninteresting thing.
Every industrial revolution hasreally been marked by that.
And I wonder what theexperience is based on at what
point in time in your life, youknow, the the nor the forming,
the norming, whatever of yourlife, what that that looked
like.
But let's get back to this.
Um, so Gen Z, right?
They catch a lot of flack.
(30:36):
Um, and it's funny to watch thememes making fun of themselves,
but that Gen Z stare, oh myGod, that blank look, I'm sure
we've all heard about, right?
It's interesting when I used toget it for my kids, very
interesting in the workplace toget it.
Um, I know sometimes it doesdrive me crazy.
I am a Gen Xer, right?
So don't mess with me.
Um, like I think we call thatum F-A-F-O on a few things.
(31:00):
One of my favorite, I might getthat as an additional tattoo.
Um, but like in my question, Iguess, like every time I go,
because I learned so much fromyounger generations, is is it
really like these negativethings from Gen Z, the blank
stares, the you know, whateverit is that that drives me crazy?
But am I just misunderstandingit?
(31:22):
Right?
Am I misunderstanding andreading it with my Gen Z, no
nonsense, latchkey kid brain,right?
That so many of us grew up in.
And like, what if it isn't thembeing rude, right?
What if it isn't them beingironic?
And what if it's actuallysomething else, right?
Which gets me back to shouldn'twe be focused on like what one
(31:44):
generation can learn from theother generations?
Lynne (31:48):
Yes.
I mean, I think about what Danjust shared with us.
If generations are defined byrebellion against the previous
status quo, what is that Gen Zstare a rebellion against?
Dan (32:00):
We do have an article that we'll put in the show notes if
you want to read more about theGen Z stare.
Well, that is our time fortoday.
I can't believe how fast thisepisode went.
What a great set of questionswe asked today about
generational differences.
I think my big takeaway is thatour interactions with other
generations, whether it's in theworkplace or elsewhere, is
actually a big opportunity toput curiosity into practice.
(32:24):
And my goodness, Lynne'squestions are a terrific,
specific place to start.
So rewind back to that part.
Listen to those questionsagain, write them down, ask them
yourselves.
Lynne (32:34):
Dan, we are on such the same wavelength.
That was my takeaway too wasthis idea of leaning into
curiosity about the othergenerations.
Um, and just so you don't haveto rewind all the way back,
here's a couple.
To ask of your youngercolleagues, what are older
generations misunderstandingabout your relationship to work?
And to tell someone to ask you,what have you not been asked
(32:57):
about your own generationalexperience that you wish you
had?
Patti (33:00):
For me, it's very similar to both of you, right?
What are the areas ofcommonality?
And if I look at Gen Z and go,oh, that stare, how are people
looking at Gen X andmisinterpreting us?
Right.
And how do I then take that tolook in the mirror and maybe do
some EQ work on myself, get moreemotionally intelligent because
(33:22):
I clearly, the three of usclearly have been impacted by
the generation we're in and thelabels there.
So thanks for listening, folks.
That's our time.
Today's episode was sponsoredby MTV, VHS Cassettes, and
Pac-Man Arcade Cabinets.
Lynne (33:39):
Our music was composed by Gen Zier Jake Cuppernal.
Dan (33:43):
Our cover art was created by Gen Zier Mads Graham.
Patti (33:47):
Listeners, this episode is our final one for season two,
regardless of your generation.
And so we're gonna take alittle bit of a break, not easy
for Gen Xers, but we're gonnatake a little bit of a break and
plan to be back later thisyear.
So we will catch you next time,but it will be a little later.
Take care, enjoy, and keep yourcuriosity going.
Hello and welcome back to Listening for the Questions, a
podcast the whole family canenjoy.
My name's Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and a militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And I'm a proud Gen Xer.
I'm also old enough to rememberback when Gen X was called the
slacker generation, I gotta saythat's a term I never identified
with.
Lynne (00:32):
And I'm Lynnee Cuppernull.
I'm a leadership coach and ahealthcare consultant.
I am also a triathlete, sodefinitely not a slacker.
Well, most of the time.
I'm also a proud member of GenX, who I have to say seems to be
a generation that's gettingprouder with age.
Patti (00:49):
And I'm Dr.
Patti Fletcher.
I always wanted to be aslacker, but it gave me agita.
So I just couldn't do it.
Um, I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from big tech, a
leadership futurist working atthe intersection of people,
business, technology, and data,a best-selling author, and I
have been so looking forward tothis episode for a long time
(01:13):
because we're talking aboutgenerational cohorts.
Specifically, what are thequestions we should be asking
when we talk about differentgenerations?
Lynne (01:23):
We've all heard the terms baby boomers, Gen X, that's all
three of us, even though Pattidid not proudly give it a shout
out.
Um, millennials, Gen Z, GenAlpha, but uh does anyone else
have a hard time remembering thespecific cutoff dates for those
generations?
So maybe we start there.
What are these generationswe're talking about?
Patti (01:45):
Lynne, I'm so happy you called me out.
Of course, I'm doing my typicalgiggling um because I am such a
proud Gen Xer.
People, it's important to knowthis.
I'm very, very conceited aboutmany things.
My friend group, I'm a memberof Gen X.
I am Scorpio, um, moon, and sunrising.
My birthday is the best ever.
(02:06):
Um, so those are all of mythings.
Yes, Gen X is at the top ofthat list.
All right, so Lynne, I can'thelp myself.
I need to ask for permissionfrom you and Dan.
Can I answer your questionabout yes, yes, yes, answer
away.
Thank you.
Yes, Christmas came early.
Okay.
So, first of all, you know, thethe I spend a lot of time here,
(02:28):
right, because of my work andgenerations, and it kind of
depends those dates on who youask.
I mean, there's not asignificant, you know,
difference, but generally babyboomers are 1946 to 1964, Gen X
is 1965 to 1980, millennials are1981 to 1996, Gen Z is 1997 to
(02:56):
2012, and Gen Alpha is 2012 topresent day.
Dan (03:03):
So it sounds like the generations are about 15 years
plus or minus.
And as you kind of go throughthat rundown, it had me
wondering when will Gen Z andGen Alpha get their own labels?
Like millennials used to becalled Gen Y because they came
after Gen X and Y is after that,and then Gen Z was next, and
then we go back to the beginningof the alphabet for Gen Alpha.
(03:24):
But why are all the othergenerations' names based on Gen
X as like the starting point?
And really, if Gen Y can becomemillennials, because nobody
calls them Gen Y anymore, isn'tit about time Gen Z got their
own name?
Patti (03:38):
I can't help but think about my puppy dog and her
zoomies when I think about that.
And having, you know, each ofus has children, right, in in
Gen Z.
And it does make me laugh, butI really hope they aren't called
Zoomers, um, although I thinksome of us may call them that.
Dan (03:55):
Yeah, so uh fun fact, speaking of generational names,
did you know Gen Xers wereoriginally called baby busters?
Because there was a big drop inbirth rates after the baby
boomers.
So they went from baby boomersto baby busters.
I'm so glad they changed thatname.
Lynne (04:11):
I'm laughing because I mean, who is they?
Who gets to pick the names forthese groups?
And just staying with theunfortunate names for a second,
the group before the boomers issometimes called the silent
generation.
And I've always wondered howthey feel about being called
that.
I guess because they're silent,we may never know.
(04:31):
And prior to the early 1900s,those generations they didn't
even seem to have a label.
So why did we decide that weneed to start labeling these
generations?
Did generations have labels inthe 1800s or the 1500s?
Right.
Dan (04:47):
And then, like, whether they had labels or not, I do
wonder, were there really bigdifferences between generations
in previous centuries?
Like, if life was fairlyconsistent for hundreds of
years, my dad was a farmer, hisdad was a farmer, we're all
farmers as far back as anybodycan remember.
Like, would the concept of agenerational cohort have made
much sense to people in like the1200s?
Lynne (05:09):
Ooh, and that gets me wondering why the concept of
generational differences is sostrong today.
I mean, that's really a lot youhear so many people talking
about tensions between thegenerations and frustrations,
particularly at work.
Um, so what do we actually meanwhen we say generational
differences?
(05:29):
Are we talking about age, lifestage, ability to use your
phone, something else?
And why do so many of usidentify so strongly with those
labels like boomers or thisproud Generation X?
Or is it maybe just GenerationX?
Who does?
I'm afraid maybe it is.
(05:51):
So do different generations dothey have the same sense of
identity?
Do Gen Zers think of themselvesas Gen Z in the same way that
Gen Xers do?
Probably not.
Patti (06:02):
I don't think they have the mental or intellectual
capacity, Lynne, for that.
Dan (06:08):
Shots fired.
Wow.
Patti (06:11):
Yeah.
Um, and you know, it's it'sinteresting when I when I think
about generational differences,uh, until I heard what what you
just had to say, Lynne, I didn'trealize that other people
didn't have those separations,you know, throughout it's always
been called out.
My sisters are part of adifferent generation.
It's also interesting presenttime that watching my children,
(06:34):
Gen Zers, really not beimpressed with Gen Alphas,
right?
And so hearing them kind ofcomplain a lot, and I'm like,
look in the mirror, buddy.
Um, and also just music, right?
So my father um grew up in avery um blue-collar, very white
family, and um he really likedMotown and he liked all of these
(06:55):
other kinds of genres of music,rock and roll, that maybe his
family wasn't too fond ofbecause they were afraid of what
they represented.
And so I was always very awarethat younger generation is
always going to question oldergeneration, and that also my
godfather was a hippie, he was adraft dodging, you know, all
that stuff.
And he is probably the mostconservative guy I know now.
(07:17):
So it's also interesting whathappens as the generation ages.
But for me, this has been partof my life, you know, forever
because I work on workforce umgenerations, right?
So, what are the newgenerations that are entering
the workplace?
How do they change over time?
And how do they prepare us forthat?
(07:38):
So I look at things like whatwas the impact of 9-11 on the
kids who were born around it,who were in high school at the
time, right?
It was such a pivotal moment.
So it's not just the years,right?
You can imagine in the 70s, theVietnam War going on, all of
those, you know, kinds ofmarching in the streets, not
something this country really,you know, had seen before.
(08:00):
From a workforce perspective,we were very focused on
millennials as digital natives,right?
Very focused in on Gen Z as AInatives, instant gratification,
not having to look someone inthe eye face to face, using
texting so you don't usecomplete sentences, right?
All of those things that weassociate with humanity,
(08:20):
communication, and being able tofocus in on those.
But but ultimately, I guess myquestion is for me, is it really
about the generation when Ithink about work?
Is it about the generationaldifferences, or is it because of
experiences that it's what arethe generational expectations of
the world around them?
(08:41):
It feels like that is a goodquestion to ask.
Dan (08:45):
Oh, Patti, I love that.
There's so much to unpackthere.
And you know, when we think ofto use the example of
millennials as digital natives,because they grew up with this
digital world, that gets methinking that I want to flip the
question around a little bitand ask, what are the
environmental influences thatactually do affect an entire
generation like the internet orlike 9-11?
And what are these things thathave a big, like consistent
(09:08):
effect on everyone?
We each might individuallyrespond differently to stuff
like MTV or social media orglobal warming.
But like when sociologists lookat a big group, a generational
cohort, they do see trends, theysee similarities coming from
these significant influences.
So I'm not a sociologist.
That is beyond the scope of myeducation.
(09:28):
So I actually just don't know.
What are the things in ageneral sense that shape and
define any generation?
And then are there consistentattributes that these influences
share?
I just think that'd be aninteresting thing to know.
Lynne (09:43):
Yes, yes.
I'm I'm going with you there,Dan.
We think of things like wars.
Uh, World War II was such ashaping event uh for the silent
generation and really the babyboomers, too.
Um uh oh, presidentialadministrations, um, and
thinking about differentpresidential administrations or
(10:05):
new technologies or the moonlanding.
So we're recording this the dayafter the Artemis launch, and
it had been so many years sincethere had been a moon launch,
and that was really a shapingevent for that generation.
And I'm wondering, I don'tthink that the Artemis launch is
gonna be the same type ofshaping event.
(10:27):
Um, I think about theChallenger explosion.
That was such a pivotal momentfor Generation X, right?
Everybody can still rememberwhere they were, right?
Probably in like math classtaking a test when that
happened, or you were, you know,everybody was watching it on
TV.
Anyway, I'm digressing a littlebit.
Because what I'm wondering isif those are the big things,
(10:50):
what's the smallest possiblething that could influence a
whole generation?
Smaller than a war, smallerthan a president, smaller than a
moon landing, more localizedthan climate change.
Patti (11:03):
I I love that.
Just a little fun fact.
I did meet Christina Koch um atthe White House um during the
um State of Women that thatObama had conference, and I have
quite a few photos um with her,and she was incredible.
That was in 2016, and and sheis she is incredible, excuse me.
And Lynne, I really wish peoplepaid attention because look at
(11:26):
the diversity going around themoon.
And isn't that something?
So, you know, I just want toshare a really quick story, and
I'll try to make it quickbecause I'm me and that's gonna
be a challenge.
Linda, you know, you tipped offsomething when you were
thinking about and and you know,pontificating around like what
about the big things and thelittle things?
And are there things we wouldsee as a before and after?
And what are the small things?
(11:47):
And I don't think there's asmoking gun, I think it's many.
So a few years ago, as mydaughter, my younger one, was
getting into URI, I went to whatwas the best college
orientation I had everexperienced.
The dean of the URI school gotup on stage and he was saying
how it's been really interestingin higher ed um to see the ways
(12:09):
in which the people who decidewho goes to their school and who
stays in their school, how theyview parents and what they have
seen over the years in terms ofparents um kind of letting
their kids grow up.
And now, you know, everyone's ahelicopter parent, right up
until kind of thing, you know,in their 20s.
And so he asked us in this bigauditorium um, how many of you
(12:32):
gave your kids cell phones atwhatever age?
And we all, you know, it waslike age 10 or whatever, hands
open up.
How many of you thought it wastoo early?
Hands holding up.
How many of you did thatbecause you did it for safety?
All of our hands went up.
And he said that was pivotal.
He said, Of course it was 9-11,right?
We are all post-9-11, but thenwe have all this technology that
(12:55):
helps us have this control.
And so, Lynne, listening toyou, I'm thinking, what are all
of those factors?
9-11, especially in the areathat we're all in in the
Northeast.
And Dan, you and I, because ofLogan Airport, and you know, you
may know people I was supposedto be in tower two right that
day, couldn't be there.
So all of these things withtechnology, there are big and
(13:16):
little things we don't evennotice.
I didn't know other parents.
And I thought, wow, whenlistening to you, not just
marking a generation Gen X, wedo the grit, but we also have a
little bit of millennial in us,right?
We we have those things.
But me as a generationalperson, who I was and how that
(13:36):
has changed as a parent, as aGen Xer, is is pretty
interesting.
So, you know, what are thosethings that we can tell are
influential?
I I think I knew I knewSeptember 11th changed me.
I knew the pandemic changed us,right?
I knew it changed my children.
Um, but yeah, maybe some thingsrequire hindsight, you know,
(13:58):
you know, a decade hindsight.
I know certainly in my own lifethey do, but I do wonder that.
What will we see when we lookback?
Dan (14:05):
Speaking of looking back and looking forward, uh, I
assume you both watched or heardabout the the launch yesterday.
We talked about the launcharound the moon.
As Gen Xers, how did you feelknowing that they were about to
light off this big rocket?
Anyone else feeling a littlebit of you know, shuttle uh
PTSD?
Patti (14:21):
I remember exactly where I was, Mr.
Tinto's class, yes, andwatching that.
And here's the thing (14:26):
I read something that was interesting,
generational difference.
The TV was rolled back into thecloset and we went on with our
day.
There was no talking about it,there was none of that.
And I don't now there would becounselors, there would be
emails, right?
So it was also the generationalresponse of the baby boomers
(14:46):
and that silent generation iscalled the traditionalists,
right?
They were members of that nononsense, you know, kind of
world.
Yeah.
I hear you, Dan.
I I still take a little bit ofa when that happens.
Dan (14:59):
Yeah, because that singular moment still affects the way we
process and experience and feelnews events today.
So it does seem like theseinfluences tend to be things
that show up at an early stagein a generation's development.
Like anybody could watch MTV inthe early 80s, but Gen X became
the MTV generation because ofhow young we were when it came
(15:20):
out and it influenced usdifferently than it influenced
our parents.
Or like today, anybody can havea social media account, but
social media shaped themillennials in a significant way
differently than the othergenerations.
So is each generation'sdefining attributes locked in by
the time we're in our 20s?
But then, Patti, you know, youdid mention like sometimes they
(15:41):
do change over time as we getolder and more conservative or
less conservative.
Lynne (15:46):
Yeah, that's interesting, Dan.
I think I think theconventional wisdom is that they
are locked in.
And I think we are seeing thatthat is not true, right?
That there are shifts.
And Facebook, which started aslike something cool, that you
know, the Facebook for collegekids has now been taken over by
(16:08):
uh not just the baby boomers,but even the greatest
generation.
And so it's no longer cool.
Anyway, I just think it's aninteresting question.
Uh, on the face of it, yes, thedefining attributes are locked
in in our by our early 20s, butthat's actually not the reality.
And I think that is gonna takeus into our next concept, which
is really about at work, right?
(16:29):
These generational differencesand key moments and how they
show up at work.
They do really often surface astensions in the workplace.
I mean, I've seen it, I've hadfriends that I've talked about
it with.
Um, and so I want to ask somequestions about these
generational tensions and justbeing together in the workplace.
(16:51):
And so I'm curious, like, whatdoes each generation want from
work?
And how much of that wanting isshaped by the economy when
they're entering the workforce,not just when they're born.
Patti (17:05):
Yeah, it's true, seeing what their parents go through as
they're growing up when itcomes to relationship with work.
And, you know, then that bringsme to in therefore the tension,
right?
Those differences and what dowe want from work?
What are our expectations fromwork?
We can we feel that, right, asGen Xers.
We we certainly probably haveour opinions on the other
generations, but that tension atwork, and you know what else
(17:28):
hit me, Dan, when you weretalking about um, when you were
talking about the space shuttlein in and um Lynne, was Dan and
I had just a wonderfulexperience.
And Dan, I will be forevergrateful to you for bringing me
into this workshop we did, Ithink it was over two days at
the National Academy ofSciences, right?
And it was for NASA, and NASAwas focused in on the future of
(17:50):
innovation at NASA.
And one thing I learned therethat I probably should have
known was they look atgenerations based on manned
flights.
And those generations areimpacted by the loss of human
life in those manned flights.
So generations are not justpotentially, or can we look at
(18:10):
generations?
I'm not gonna answer it.
Can we look at generations, notjust the time we were born, but
the time we were together witha big population of people and
experience something?
I know I can, right?
Working at like an SAP in theearly days.
I was part of that generation,which is very different, which
was all mixed generations,right?
So um, like how do we thinkabout stuff like that?
(18:32):
And, you know, how do thosedifferent wants and needs, based
on those experiences we have asa collective or based on who we
were conditioned to be as partof an actual year generation,
how do we get them to help uswork together, find common
ground versus always, and we'vespent the last however many
minutes, 19 minutes, we've beenrecording on the differences
(18:55):
versus the common ground ofthings.
Dan (18:58):
The military has a similar concept of year groups.
So, you know, two officers meetup and you ask, like, well,
when did you get commissioned?
When did you join the military?
And we were lieutenantstogether, and then we were
majors together, and then youknow, you go on.
So it is interesting to havethe you know, this group of
majors looking at the new batchof lieutenants and thinking,
kids these days, right?
And I think this is wherecuriosity can be really helpful.
(19:20):
You know, when we notice thesedifferences, what does it look
like to be genuinely curiousabout someone's generational
experience or desires or wants?
And Lynne, I love that youasked the question, what do the
gen what do the differentgenerations want?
Instead of just tolerating itor criticizing it or complaining
about it.
So, what are some of thecurious questions that people
(19:43):
could ask when we notice thesetypes of things?
Lynne (19:45):
Okay, and I'm I'm gonna answer that one.
Don't be jealous, Patti.
Um, but because I'm answeringwith questions, I don't think it
really counts.
Uh and the reason I want to Iwant our to give our listeners
some of these questions isbecause there's so much talk
about curiosity and leaning intocuriosity and curiosity being a
leadership superpower, but it'snot always easy to be curious.
(20:08):
And so here's a here's a gift,here's a few questions that you
could consider asking aboutgenerational differences or just
generations in in general.
Um, so here's one.
What do you think people,either younger or older,
depending on who's asking,fundamentally misunderstand
(20:30):
about your relationship to work?
Or for younger generations toask older ones, what did you
have to unlearn when theworkplace changed around you?
And finally, for maybe theolder generations to ask each
other, what's something ayounger colleague does that you
admire, but you haven't said outloud or told them about?
Patti (20:52):
Well, if I wasn't allowed to answer questions that Dan
has, and you are Lynne, you gotthe job.
Those are excellent, excellentquestions.
They really are, and and reallymaking me think.
And I have one more I want toadd, and that is like, what
question about your owngenerational experience have you
never been asked, but youreally wish someone would ask
(21:15):
you?
Dan (21:15):
Oh, Patti, I love that addition too.
That's terrific.
Uh, and I do want to point outlike our conversation so far has
all been very US-centric.
Like we're talking aboutAmerican generations.
Not every country had a babyboom at the same time the US
did.
MTV didn't have the same impactaround the whole world at the
same time as it did here in thecontinental, you know, '48.
(21:36):
So when we talk about thesegenerations, maybe we should
also ask how do people in othercountries experience these
differences and these shifts?
Lynne (21:46):
And how do they experience them?
And you know, this is one ofour favorite ones.
Who benefits?
Who benefits from generationallabels?
Who benefits in the US?
Who maybe benefits if there areeven Generational labels, and I
think there are in differentcertain cultures.
Um, who benefits from them?
I mean, I think Patti, youprobably would second this, but
(22:08):
marketing people probably do.
Patti (22:11):
We sure do.
Yeah, we sure do.
Um, we we love a generational,right?
Because it there are thoseattributes.
Um, and you know, I I thinkabout this too.
I'm also a research scientist.
And so the kind of work I dowhen it comes to the future of
work and when it comes togender, I look very deeply at
(22:32):
things like generationaldifferences.
And Dan, thank you for bringingup the global viewpoint,
because I raise my hand to say,absolutely, I'm a Western
culture girl, and I do need thatbias um unchecked.
So, so thank you for that,because that's really important.
But there are all kinds ofresearchers, right?
So, Dan, you mentionedsociologists, but there are
(22:52):
economists, there are politicalscientists, you know, all of
those folks.
And you know when I think aboutthese labels and groupings and
my own use around analyzingthem, right?
The trends that go with them,the the trends as individuals,
the trends as groups, I I can'thelp but kind of question am I
(23:13):
doing it because it makes myresearch more coherent?
And by the way, is that not abad benefit, right?
As long as I'm not using themas labels, but maybe is it okay
that I use them as a way tounderstand populations of people
and how they're viewingwhatever it is that I'm focused
on.
Dan (23:30):
Oh, Patti, I love that.
Using these labels to increaseour understanding of the world
around us, that makes a lot ofsense.
That sounds like a reallyuseful framework.
And it does kind of beg thequestion about like dark
patterns, the people who usethese frameworks not just to
study and understand, but tolike manipulate or control big
(23:51):
groups of people.
How do we avoid falling downthat kind of a rabbit hole when
a framework like this has apositive use and maybe a
negative or an exploitive use aswell?
Lynne (24:01):
Well, Dan, you teed it up for me.
So guess what?
Dan (24:04):
I'm gonna bring up AI before Patti gets a chance to
when Lynne gets to answerquestions, you get to answer
questions and bring up AI first.
Lynne (24:13):
I think Lynne is winning this episode.
All right, this is my favoriteepisode.
Um so here we go.
AI.
How do gener differentgenerations approach AI?
And do different generationshave different benefits and
(24:33):
different harms from AI?
Are they using it differentlyand are they seeing different
opportunities and threats?
Patti (24:40):
So, you know, one of the trends we're seeing, right, is
AI is taking over some of theentry-level jobs, even higher
level, but entry level.
So now that I'm doing morecollege circuit stuff and I find
out what um the students arefocused on, and my question is
always, how is AI beingincorporated?
When I hear what they'refocused on, all I think about is
you're not gonna have a job,right?
(25:00):
So it's it's really difficult.
And so when I think about AIand the harm, is it harm, by the
way?
I don't know if this is harm orit's simply evolution that Gen
Z is disproportionately impactedbecause those entry-level jobs
are the ones that leaders arefocusing AI on, which by the
(25:21):
way, makes sense.
I just don't necessarily knowif my question would be framed
with harm, uh, or it should beimpact.
And perhaps the real questionis there is the educational
system the problem when it comesto AI and the generations?
Are we using antiquated ways ofteaching and learning and the
(25:44):
tools we bring in that don'tactually represent the world
around us?
How do we go from, you know,those philosophy things that are
important in bedrock?
Are we doing a disservice,right?
So are we not keeping up withthose generations?
And um, but you know, goingback to growing up in an AI
(26:04):
world as an AI native seems likeit also creates opportunities
that older generations won'thave access to simply because
they don't think that way.
They think in an old,antiquated way.
So, like, which is it, right?
Is it is it that you know it'sgonna help us, benefit us?
Is it that it's going to keepcertain generations out?
Lynne (26:26):
Yeah.
So, first of all, I just wantto say if we're gonna put this
in the show notes, I just readan article in the post today
about this teacher who hastrained in AI to be much more of
a challenger teacher.
Um, so he saw his students wereusing AI.
He was like, okay, this is theworld I'm living in.
Let me create an agent that canreally help them learn.
(26:49):
So I'll find that article.
We'll put it in the show notesbecause I think, Patti, that's
getting to your point around howdo we change our educational
systems?
The good news is some of thesereally smart teachers are
already doing it and thinkingabout it.
And something I'm hearingabout, both from friends with
Gen Z kids and seeing it myselfwith my own Gen Z kids, one of
(27:09):
whom is a teacher, is a bit of agenerational backlash from them
about AI.
And I don't think it's becausethey're worried about it taking
their jobs.
I mean, maybe they should be,but I don't think that's the
where the backlash is comingfrom.
It seems like it may be morerelated to this emerging need to
(27:29):
connect IRL, which I knowactually only Gen X says now,
and so that's not cool.
Um, and maybe the fact that GenX is doubling down on AI, which
is also making it uncool.
Uh, so I'm just I'm wondering alittle bit about that.
Um, but then also, like wetalked about earlier, how how
generations change over time.
(27:50):
Uh Gen X was described asslackers in the 80s.
Did we continue to be slackersas we got older?
The answer is no, but maybethat's because we we never were.
Dan (28:01):
I love that question and yay for another answer.
And you know, as we think aboutAI and the generations and the
generational differences, aquestion that popped into my
head is does anyone think AI isgoing to go away?
Like, do any of thesegenerations as a cohort think
it's going to go away?
Are they more skeptical aboutthe continued viability of this
as a particular type oftechnology?
(28:21):
And, you know, what are theimplications of that belief?
But back to the Gen X thing.
So I did find an article from2002.
So, like 24 years ago, if I'mdoing my public math correctly,
it had some really nice thingsto say about our generation.
We'll put a link to this one inthe show notes as well.
So the author is Patrick Reddy,and he wrote that Gen X has,
quote, reversed every bad socialtrend from the last four
(28:46):
decades, despite getting littlehelp from either their families
or the government.
Bam! Not bad for a bunch ofslackers, right?
So I think that kind of answersone of the questions you asked
earlier, Lynne, but it also asksa new one if Gen X wasn't
actually a bunch of slackers.
If we really did reverse everybad social trend from the past
four decades, which, come on,that's a dubious claim.
(29:07):
But if that's true, that makesme wonder what are we getting
wrong about the millennials andthe Gen Zers now?
Like what stories about themare we holding on to that aren't
serving us and that aren'tserving them because they're
just not based in reality.
Patti (29:22):
Okay, I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say I have
not one example, but I do thinkwe reversed all the bad
decisions.
Um, all of them.
Four decades worth.
Dan (29:32):
Four decades worth, yes.
Patti (29:34):
And listening to the two of you talk about AI and Dan,
your questions around do peopleessentially think it's a phase,
there were people that thoughtthe internet was a phase.
And and when we think about AI,it's really interesting for me
to sit here and listen and go,gosh, Gen X really does seem to
be good at accepting things forhow they are and not um
(29:54):
submitting to them, right?
And when I think about howthings are, many of us know that
AI is the new electricity.
Where previous generations wentelectricity, or my God, the TV,
which changed everything,right?
Were there folks when, like bythe time their parents thought
electricity or the TV was cool,that the younger generations
were like, no, it's not, right?
(30:14):
So it's it's such aninteresting thing.
Every industrial revolution hasreally been marked by that.
And I wonder what theexperience is based on at what
point in time in your life, youknow, the the nor the forming,
the norming, whatever of yourlife, what that that looked
like.
But let's get back to this.
Um, so Gen Z, right?
They catch a lot of flack.
(30:36):
Um, and it's funny to watch thememes making fun of themselves,
but that Gen Z stare, oh myGod, that blank look, I'm sure
we've all heard about, right?
It's interesting when I used toget it for my kids, very
interesting in the workplace toget it.
Um, I know sometimes it doesdrive me crazy.
I am a Gen Xer, right?
So don't mess with me.
Um, like I think we call thatum F-A-F-O on a few things.
(31:00):
One of my favorite, I might getthat as an additional tattoo.
Um, but like in my question, Iguess, like every time I go,
because I learned so much fromyounger generations, is is it
really like these negativethings from Gen Z, the blank
stares, the you know, whateverit is that that drives me crazy?
But am I just misunderstandingit?
(31:22):
Right?
Am I misunderstanding andreading it with my Gen Z, no
nonsense, latchkey kid brain,right?
That so many of us grew up in.
And like, what if it isn't thembeing rude, right?
What if it isn't them beingironic?
And what if it's actuallysomething else, right?
Which gets me back to shouldn'twe be focused on like what one
(31:44):
generation can learn from theother generations?
Lynne (31:48):
Yes.
I mean, I think about what Danjust shared with us.
If generations are defined byrebellion against the previous
status quo, what is that Gen Zstare a rebellion against?
Dan (32:00):
We do have an article that we'll put in the show notes if
you want to read more about theGen Z stare.
Well, that is our time fortoday.
I can't believe how fast thisepisode went.
What a great set of questionswe asked today about
generational differences.
I think my big takeaway is thatour interactions with other
generations, whether it's in theworkplace or elsewhere, is
actually a big opportunity toput curiosity into practice.
(32:24):
And my goodness, Lynne'squestions are a terrific,
specific place to start.
So rewind back to that part.
Listen to those questionsagain, write them down, ask them
yourselves.
Lynne (32:34):
Dan, we are on such the same wavelength.
That was my takeaway too wasthis idea of leaning into
curiosity about the othergenerations.
Um, and just so you don't haveto rewind all the way back,
here's a couple.
To ask of your youngercolleagues, what are older
generations misunderstandingabout your relationship to work?
And to tell someone to ask you,what have you not been asked
(32:57):
about your own generationalexperience that you wish you
had?
Patti (33:00):
For me, it's very similar to both of you, right?
What are the areas ofcommonality?
And if I look at Gen Z and go,oh, that stare, how are people
looking at Gen X andmisinterpreting us?
Right.
And how do I then take that tolook in the mirror and maybe do
some EQ work on myself, get moreemotionally intelligent because
(33:22):
I clearly, the three of usclearly have been impacted by
the generation we're in and thelabels there.
So thanks for listening, folks.
That's our time.
Today's episode was sponsoredby MTV, VHS Cassettes, and
Pac-Man Arcade Cabinets.
Lynne (33:39):
Our music was composed by Gen Zier Jake Cuppernal.
Dan (33:43):
Our cover art was created by Gen Zier Mads Graham.
Patti (33:47):
Listeners, this episode is our final one for season two,
regardless of your generation.
And so we're gonna take alittle bit of a break, not easy
for Gen Xers, but we're gonnatake a little bit of a break and
plan to be back later thisyear.
So we will catch you next time,but it will be a little later.
Take care, enjoy, and keep yourcuriosity going.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.