February 3, 2026 • 29 mins
Valentine’s Day is supposed to be about love. But for many people, it lands as pressure, performance, exclusion, or quiet disappointment. In this episode, Lynne, Dan, and Dr. Patti take a familiar cultural moment and do what we always do on Listening for the Questions: we slow it down and ask better questions.
Together, we explore what Valentine’s Day reveals about how we define love, worth, success, and belonging. We talk about the stories we inherit about romance, the commercial scripts we rarely interrogate, and the invisible hierarchies that decide which kinds of love are celebrated and which are ignored. We also ask what gets missed when love is framed as a milestone instead of a practice.
This is not an episode about how to “do” Valentine’s Day better. It’s an invitation to examine what love actually means in your life right now, who it’s for, and how curiosity might open up more honest, humane, and expansive ways of relating to ourselves and others.
Questions we explore include:
- Who is Valentine’s Day really designed for, and who gets left out?
- When does love become a performance instead of a lived experience?
- How do scarcity narratives around love shape our choices and expectations?
- What might love look like if we treated it as a verb, not a status?
Whether you love Valentine’s Day, dread it, or ignore it completely, this episode offers space to reflect without judgment and to reconnect with love as something broader, messier, and more human than a single day can hold.
Resources we found helpful when prepping for this episode:
- All About Love by bell hooks
A grounding exploration of love as action, ethics, and responsibility rather than fantasy or possession. - The Gottman Institute Relationship Research
Evidence-based insights on what actually sustains connection, trust, and intimacy over time. - Esther Perel’s work on modern relationships
Particularly her talks and writing on desire, independence, and the tension between security and freedom in love.
Available wherever you get your podcasts.
Listening for the Questions asks better questions so we can live more honest lives, together.
Listening for the Questions is where curiosity is our compass.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dan (00:13):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to Listening forthe Questions.
My name is Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And I'll just say it, I'm aromantic.
Patti (00:25):
And I'm Dr.
Patty Fletcher.
I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from Big Tech, a
leadership futurist, a genderequity advocate who is bringing
new narratives to the marketabout women who disrupt, and a
best-selling author.
And I don't think I am aromantic.
I think I'm a realist.
Lynne (00:43):
I am Lynn Cupernal.
I'm a leadership coach.
I'm a healthcare consultant.
I'm a triathlete, and I'm a mom.
Sometimes I say that in myintro, sometimes I don't, but
given today's topic, I'm I'mowning it.
And I have a little bit of alove-hate relationship with our
topic today, which isValentine's Day.
Dan (01:03):
One of the things I love about this podcast, other than
getting to spend time with youtwo wonderful people, is that
even when we pick a topic likesandwiches or magic or a
specific holiday, we alwaysmanage to come up with really
interesting questions that gobeyond the obvious and are
anything but superficial.
So happy Valentine's Day to youboth.
And I think the first questionhas to be, hey Patty, hey Lynn,
(01:25):
will you two be my Valentine's?
Patti (01:27):
Happy Valentine's Day to you, Dan.
And let me answer that verydirectly.
As fond as I am of you, I willbe your Valentine only if I get
a return on investment thatincludes some pretty awesome
dark chocolate.
unknown (01:43):
Okay.
Lynne (01:44):
I'm in.
I love a dark chocolate too.
Um, but I'm really only in if wecan skip over the red roses
cliche and get straight to thedeep stuff.
Because I mean, honestly, myrelationship with this day is a
little bit complicated.
Dan (01:58):
Well, I gotta admit, I didn't bring chocolates or
flowers for anybody, uh, but Ido have some pretty good
questions we can talk about.
So let's dive in there.
Patti (02:05):
Let's get to it, right?
This is a topic about love, andeverybody has a strong feeling
about Valentine's Day.
It is everyone wants to beloved.
They want to have people thatthey can love.
And yet the big feelings aboutthe day of love, right?
This dedicated day of love,Valentine's Day, really brings
out these extreme, like all forit, and so many more who just
(02:27):
kind of roll their eyes at thetopic.
And, you know, it really makesme wonder why is that, right?
I definitely have some strongfeelings about Valentine's Day,
although I love it, like yousaid, Lynn, right?
Like complex and complicated.
So why do some people love it?
And why do some people hate it?
And how can a day dedicated tolove be so polarizing?
Lynne (02:48):
Such good questions.
Um, and I'm wondering if thosestrong polarized reactions
explain why it persists as aholiday.
Nobody has strong feelingsabout, I don't know, Arbor Day,
right?
I I don't even know when ArborDay is.
Dan (03:06):
Oh, Lynn, I don't know when Arbor Day is either.
Uh, and Arbor Day is like alegitimately beautiful holiday,
right?
It's about caring for theenvironment.
It's about going outside andplanting trees.
And I remember kind of lovingArbor Day when I was a kid, like
in elementary school, but Idon't think I've really thought
about that one for years.
So I wonder, what would it taketo get a Valentine's Day level
(03:28):
response around a holiday likeArbor Day?
Lynne (03:33):
I don't know, actually.
I know we're not answeringquestions.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion.
Uh, and I think I'm gonna putout a fairly common position
here when I say I thinkValentine's Day persists as a
holiday to keep the cardindustry afloat.
Um, although when I worked inbookstores in my early 20s, the
(03:54):
days leading up to Valentine'sDay were some of our biggest
sales days, which I founddelightful.
Um, although I've never gotten abook for Valentine's Day, hint
hint, those of my loved ones outthere listening, uh, I would
absolutely love to.
And so it leads me to wonder whyare chocolates and flowers the
(04:16):
more commonly, you know, go-togifts.
I think it said something aboutsociety, at least in the US, the
view of what women want.
And do women get more gifts thanmen on Valentine's Day?
And why?
Dan (04:28):
Yeah, I'm with you, Lynn.
I love to give books.
I love to get books.
And how cool that your bookstorewas busy at this time of year.
So we should make that a thing.
How do we make that a thing?
Giving people books onValentine's Day.
I am here for that.
Patti (04:39):
I love that.
I don't know if there's anational book reading day,
right?
But I I love that.
You know, you brought up the US,Lynn, and listening to both of
you.
I lived in the United Kingdomfor quite a while and certainly
did my stints in in Asia and,you know, worked all over the
globe.
I will say that the US is somuch more commercialized around
Valentine's Day.
And in England, they have folksthat will do things like I'll
(05:02):
sing for a candy, right?
I mean, certainly there was thecards and the chocolates and
potentially the romance, butnothing, nothing like it is
here.
It's less performative in theother countries I've been to
from a cultural perspective.
And I think that's one of thechallenges I, as not a cynic,
but a realist.
I think, what are you trying topull over on me today if you're
(05:23):
going to be this performativeabout Valentine's Day?
It might be the Bostonian in me.
Maybe it's because it like itfeels scheduled, it feels put
on, that it feels so artificial.
But like, why do I have thisthing that it needs to be
spontaneous in order to be real?
And maybe that's because, youknow, my love language is more
about acts of service.
(05:44):
Um, and you know, what does thatlook like versus gift giving,
right?
That's how I appreciate beingbeing loved.
And, you know, for me, I startto think about like, what is
really lost in terms of showingyour love to someone when you
have to calendar it, right?
When the calendar gets involved.
And then, you know, kind ofgoing back to to what we were
(06:05):
talking about when we wereprepping for this show is like
love is a pretty awesome thing.
So why do I have such a hardtime having a day dedicated to
celebrating it?
I don't feel pressure, butthat's certainly what I hear
from other people.
What do you two think?
Lynne (06:20):
Yes, I gosh, buddy, you asked a lot of questions there
and said a lot of things.
And I do think there issomething to the it's the one
day.
And I think about theconversation we had about New
Year's resolutions, right?
Maybe we don't have to set themjust at the new year.
Let's not think that we onlyneed to express love for people,
(06:41):
whether we say it out loud,whether we give a card, whether
we give a gift on Valentine'sDay, and I do think it's that
pressure of the one day that uhmakes people, I can only speak
for myself, but makes peoplefeel kind of uh about it.
And then I'm also thinking aboutthis whole Hallmark holiday and
how that is like an eye-rollingthing.
(07:03):
But I mean, really, is givingpeople a card to say how you
feel about them so terrible?
Although it does also lead me tothink about who benefits from
the commercialization ofValentine's Day?
Dan (07:16):
Ooh, Lynn, I love where you're going there.
You know, our regular listenersmight have noticed we love to
ask that kind of question.
Who benefits from the situation?
And at the same time, like, isit really so bad for a company
to benefit financially byencouraging people to express
their feelings of affection foreach other?
Right?
Is that something that we wantto complain about?
(07:36):
And I wonder, like, what if morecompanies created more holidays
or more people expressedaffection and gave each other
chocolates or books?
Would that make the world abetter place or a worse place?
I don't know.
Maybe that's my my romanticroots coming out and showing.
Patti (07:51):
And the marketer in me is like, go for it, right?
I think it's it's really thisum, you know, kind of question
of is it transactional or is itauthentic, right?
And that's kind of what I hear.
Everybody believes Hallmarkcreated this for self-serving
reasons, and yet we all seem toparticipate or get angry when we
don't.
But, you know, we do call itthat Hallmark holiday.
(08:14):
But is this really just anotherkind of massive data sink,
right?
Are we all forced to run thesame affection.exe file at the
same exact time and at leastover the course of our
lifetimes.
Like, I don't remember aGalantine's Day or a Palentine's
Day growing up, right?
I had shared with you folks, andwe were sharing stories about
(08:34):
like by the time we got to highschool, it was less about
handing out the little cuteValentine's Day cards with the
little goodie bags and sendingsecret roses, right?
And the school I went to,everybody got the same color
rose, whether you were a friendor a romantic interest or
whatever.
So, like, I love that part ofthat Valentine's Day has evolved
to different kinds of love.
(08:57):
But the Palentine's Day is anewer um concept for me.
I hadn't really heard that.
I did hear it from my oldestdaughter, who's part of the um
LGBTQ community.
But like, is Palentine's Dayjust like a gender-neutral
version?
And how do you two feel aboutthe leveling of the playing
field on the day?
Is it just Hallmark'sopportunity to send more, sell
(09:20):
more cards?
Dan (09:21):
Yeah, you know, I think Palantine's Day is supposed to
be about friendship, uh, asopposed to the Valentine's Day
for romantic connections.
So maybe my opening questionshould have been to ask both of
you if you will be myPalantine's.
Uh and I am told that the aceand arrow folks, uh, that's
asexual and aromantic, uh, folkstend to look at Palantine's Day
as just a lovely affirmation ofthat broader spectrum of love
(09:44):
and friendship.
So that makes me wonder, andmaybe the question we should be
asking here is what would itlook like for all of us to like
really affirm and really includethe full spectrum of human
relationships?
Love, affection, friendship.
And I can't help put myengineering hat on here a little
bit and think about logistics.
Are we kind of creating a peakloading problem by packing all
(10:07):
that into a single day?
Lynne (10:09):
Right, which is what we've been talking about a
little bit, right?
Not just one day in February.
Uh I have to just I'm pausing onthe pal and the gal and the val.
This is maybe a time when weshould have like a Gen Zer on
our podcast because we're usingthese terms that are, I have to
(10:31):
say it, a little bit uhanachronistic.
Is that the word?
Anyway, so I there's no questionthere.
I just had to point that out.
So I know Patty's gonna likethis.
I'm gonna bring in AI.
Does this forced expression oflove or this like feeling forced
to express love, does it carryless data than a spontaneous
(10:52):
one?
I'm thinking, Patty, about whatyou were saying earlier about
spontaneity.
Or is it is it the effort ofparticipating in the ritual, the
gift itself?
Patti (11:01):
Yeah, you know, I I think some questions I would ask
there, because I have anotherthought too on the other side of
the spectrum, is as a marketer,some of the questions that I
would be asking the data rightaround AI is kind of what you
know, you two were talking aboutin the beginning.
We're talking about books andsales and all of that stuff,
right?
Like, what is driving thatexpression of love?
(11:22):
When is it driving it?
And who is participating in it?
And that's no doubt wherePalantine's Day and Galantine's
Day, right, really kind of tookoff because people were
celebrating those things.
And then how are you going touse marketing to have this
forced expression of love?
And what if you hate Valentine'sDay?
That's what people hate is thatbeing told forcibly to
(11:46):
participate in a holiday thatcelebrates someone loving you
and who you love, but what ifyou aren't in a relationship,
right?
Or what if you don't have aclose group of friends?
There's research that came out,I think it was last week, that
shows, you know, we we all havethis ideal that the only way to
be happy is to have a big groupof friends, right?
Like the show friends, but mostof us actually don't, especially
(12:08):
the older in life, right?
So is it just are people hatingValentine's Day because it
reinforces that they don't havea community of love around them?
Or, you know, what are some ofthe other reasons people really
don't like this holiday?
Lynne (12:23):
Patty, I think, I mean, I think you're on to something.
I was just thinking, sittingwith the, you know, what else is
underneath our our discomfort orour feelings about this this
holiday?
And I think it's that deepfeeling of being left out,
right?
That worry of being left out,uh, whether it's romantic love
(12:44):
or just friends.
Um, I mean, I still remember myfeelings about Valentine's Day
from when I was a kid.
I'm grateful I was part of anera when we gave Valentine's to
everybody in the class.
I and I think that's still thecase, or at least it was for my
kids.
But wow, I can also stillremember, and this has been a
long time ago, the thought thatwent into picking out which
(13:09):
Valentine you gave to whichperson, uh, because they were
not all created equal.
And then equal analyticalthought in assessing the meaning
behind that the Valentine thatthe boy with the big brown eyes
gave, which all of which leadsme to wonder how do these
earliest experiences of love,all forms, all forms of love,
(13:30):
shape what we seek as adults?
Patti (13:33):
I had a different experience growing up.
You didn't have to give aValentine to everybody.
And it kind of reminded me oflike Battle of the Network stars
meets dodgeball.
Like it was everything like withme growing up, you know, I'm a
Gen Xer for those of ourlisteners who don't know that.
And it we were just thisgeneration, man.
(13:53):
We we definitely caught someflack from the baby boomers who
who raised us and raised us tobe pretty tough.
I think we we all have adifferent definition of what
that could look like now, butnot everybody got a Valentine.
And so what we would end updoing is it became it was like a
schoolyard pick, right?
And definitely I remember likegoing, okay, who am I gonna give
a Valentine to?
And who's gonna get this oneversus that one, right?
(14:16):
Like, what does that look like?
We didn't give candy with itlike I did when with the kids,
my kids grew up giving one toeveryone, but it was also like
we'd literally count them up andhave like a competition of who
got more Valentine cards.
I mean, it was awful, it wasterrible.
And then my goodness, when westarted doing the rose thing and
buying the secret roses in in inschool, in high school, that was
(14:40):
even worse.
I mean, I was definitely one ofthe losers.
Yeah, I say that.
I remember my freshman year, Ididn't get any roses.
It it changed after that.
But it was like, it was likethis walk of shame, right?
And so maybe there's some ofthat around the shame component
of that maybe draws people tohave such strong feelings about
(15:03):
that.
But you know, for me, it wassocialized very early on.
Dan (15:06):
You know, I think these early experiences just end up
being so influential on us.
And I wonder, is is this when welearn to associate love with
candy?
And I'm also curious, how do weend up with two candy-based
holidays that are so different?
Right?
I'm talking about Valentine'sDay and Halloween.
Like, could there be twoholidays that are more different
than those two and they stillmanage to have candy in common?
(15:30):
Why is it whether we want to bescared or we want to be loved,
we always want candy?
Lynne (15:35):
Well, again, US culture we're talking about here.
Um, and maybe we should startwearing costumes on how or on
Valentine's Day.
That might make it more fun andless stressful.
Um, and maybe that's the problemwith Arbor Day.
There's no candy.
Uh, what if we celebrated ArborDay, which we still don't know
what it is, um, by giving eachother little chocolate trees or
(15:58):
something?
Would that would people love itmore?
Dan (16:00):
Lynn, that's a great thought.
And I'm I'm wondering now, whatif it's not the candy that's
missing from Arbor Day?
What if it's theperson-to-person connection?
It's that that experience ofgiving each other something,
whether it's candy or flowers orbooks or trees, because there's
this connection between givingand receiving gifts and feeling
love, right?
Patti (16:19):
You know, this whole concept about love is so
interesting because, and by theway, I just have to, as a side
note, thanks for that wholeconnection with Halloween,
because I never put those twothings together.
It's it's crazy.
So I love that.
See what happens, listeners,when we listen for the
questions?
Um, but you know, this wholething about love, right?
And it's so it is performative,and I'm going to give someone I
(16:41):
love, a friend, a colleague, alover, a partner, whatever.
Isn't love supposed to startwith self-love?
Why aren't we celebrating thaton Valentine's Day?
Can't we all get behind lovingourselves?
Because when we love ourselves,doesn't that better us enable to
love other people?
Lynne (16:59):
Yes.
That's a great question, Patty.
I think we should sit with thatone now, this Valentine's Day.
And add a similar one, which ishow how do we practice
self-compassion aroundValentine's Day?
Take away some of the pressureand the expectations.
Dan (17:18):
Lynn, I love where you're going with that.
If we do feel weird aboutValentine's Day, how do we feel
less weird about it?
And does that begin with feelingless weird about ourselves and
accepting ourselves and lovingourselves?
And then from a gender equityperspective, one of my favorite
topics for this podcast, youknow, we could ask about
expectations when it comes togiving gifts and receiving gifts
(17:41):
on Valentine's Day.
And I have to admit, I struggledwith the prep for this episode
more than usual because it'skind of a fraught topic, right?
So I wondered like, how do wehave an honest and a curious
conversation about Valentine'sDay without sounding cynical or
sappy or creepy?
Uh, although I don't mindsounding sappy.
(18:02):
I just don't want to sound likethe other two.
Patti (18:04):
I'm happy you have standards.
I was listening to Dan, and youwere talking about expectations,
right?
When it comes to giving giftsand receiving gifts.
And as I was listening to yourthought process there, what
really struck out at me isValentine's Day is one of those
days where we're asking peopleto be vulnerable very openly
about their feelings.
(18:25):
And, you know, maybe it'sdifferent in a committed
relationship.
Some of us, I'm not saying Ihave, have been with people who
we were romantically involvedwith and they forgot Valentine's
Day.
Um, you know, like that doesn'tfeel great, but you're it's such
a vulnerability on both thegiving and the receiving end.
And is maybe that some of thechallenge we have is
(18:47):
vulnerability.
Dan (18:48):
Patty, what an interesting question.
And it makes me think thatHalloween is about being
vulnerable too, just a differenttype of vulnerability.
So maybe that's another thingthat Halloween and Valentine's
Day have in common, not justcandy, but but feeling
vulnerable.
And how did we end up with uhholidays that are both kind of
exploring that that feeling ofvulnerability?
(19:10):
Like what's what's that about?
Patti (19:11):
And could I tepee or egg your house if you don't give me
a Valentine?
Just like if you decide to jerkme instead and give me a treat
for Halloween.
Lynne (19:21):
Well, Patty, I 100% think you can uh TP Dan's house if you
don't get a Valentine from him.
But Dan, I actually I want to goback to something you said about
Halloween and vulnerability.
I don't see where that comes in.
I I actually see Halloween iswe're hiding ourselves, right?
We're we're putting on acostume.
Um, so connect the dots for me.
(19:42):
Where's the where does thevulnerability come in?
Dan (19:44):
Oh, great question.
Uh, I guess what I wasenvisioning with the
vulnerability on Halloween isthat it's a day to be scared.
And to be scared is to feelvulnerable.
And maybe we address thatvulnerability by also being
scary by putting on a costume,but sort of the watching the
scary movie or or looking atscary decorations, uh, that can
(20:06):
introduce some feelings ofvulnerability.
Is it does that kind of makesense?
Lynne (20:10):
Yes, yes.
And I know we're mostly justlistening for questions, um, but
I really wanted to hear yourthoughts on that.
So thank you.
Dan (20:15):
Yeah, that's a that's a great uh way to clarify the
question.
Patti (20:18):
This is why we have three people doing this this podcast,
because I was just stuck on thecandy level.
Um, so I hope that I have somedeep thinkers as friends.
You know, I you know I'm gonnabring AI up.
Lynn brought it up, I'm gonnabring it up.
We talked a little bit on aprevious episode about how in
Japan a woman married an AI botbecause you know she was able to
(20:41):
create the the ideal partnerthat she wanted, and men because
there aren't a lot of availablewomen and young women who are in
Japan, are creatingrelationships with AI robots.
You know, it kind of makes mewonder is the next iteration of
this Hallmark holiday going tobe AI and asking them to be the
(21:01):
Valentine?
Like we are the last generation,Gen Gen X and older millennials
to, as Benny, Mark Bennyhofffrom Salesforce said, the last
generation to have ledhuman-only um workforces, right?
And I would argue the last tohave human-only relationships.
How should we be thinking aboutour relationships with all the
AI agents and bots that are outthere that we're creating in and
(21:25):
kind of to mirror what we want?
And how does that go with love?
Lynne (21:29):
I'm I'm sitting with how I felt, Patty, when you talked
about AI and Valentine's Day.
I I felt icky.
It just made me feel like, oh,sort of sad.
And I know that this episode istalking about Valentine's Day.
I think there are questions weneed to be asking about this
(21:50):
epidemic of loneliness.
I think we are experiencing asexperiencing as a collective
culture, not just in the US.
And Uh, the relationships thatpeople are forming with AI, I
feel like is just hugely endemicof that.
So I guess my question is (22:07):
what are the questions we should be
exploring about loneliness?
Dan (22:12):
Yeah, I mean, if we think of Valentine's Day at its best,
is a way to reduce loneliness,to build connections and share
expressions of love that mightotherwise go unshared or unsaid.
And then at its worst, it canmake the loneliness worse as
people feel left out andexcluded or performative.
(22:33):
All of the things that we'vetalked about.
So I guess maybe a question toask is how do we do the best
version of something likeValentine's Day in a way that is
inclusive and welcoming andgenuinely loving?
And how do we avoid the harmfuldownside of this type of uh a
holiday or this type of anactivity?
(22:53):
I again I don't have an answerfor those, but but that's I
think a good question to beasking.
How do we make sure we'rebuilding the good version of
this and not the harmful versionof it?
Patti (23:02):
I love that.
And we know that there is powerin consumerism.
And ladies, you are responsiblefor 90% of all consumer buy
decisions.
So when it comes to thisholiday, choose wisely, just
like you would any holiday.
You know, Lynn, I want to goback to something that you said
about, you know, when AI comesup and this topic and having AI
(23:26):
as your Valentine or whatevertime it's going to end up being,
um, how it made you feel icky.
And I'm with you 100%.
And Dan, as I was listening toyou talk, like I wonder if
that's how people who have adisdain for it and they're
disguising their theirvulnerability with anger, which
many of us do, right?
Is it because they feel icky?
(23:48):
Right.
And then I also wonder, youknow, I never believe a
artificial intelligence oraugmented intelligence should
ever replace humans.
But what if you simply don'thave people in your life and you
need something to feel loved,right?
As long as it's not replacingit, but at least kind of stop
(24:09):
gapping.
But is that so bad?
And then of course it becomeswhat is our responsibility in
feeding the beast on that,right?
The beast being AI.
It's it's so interesting when wethink about we are in a state
of, and this is not a technologyepisode, but we got to talk
about it.
We have gone from usingtechnology to do things faster,
right?
(24:29):
And to do things, you know, forless money.
It's been very transactional.
And now with agentic AI and thenmoving forward, it really is
about AI learning from us, notjust in those consumer trends.
I talked about as a marketer,but and beyond sentiment, it's
about feelings and emotions andempathy and compassion and all
(24:49):
of that stuff.
And it's gonna be, I wonder ifit's gonna be harder and harder
as we get to these, like, and Ilove that that this is a human
connection holiday, unlike ArborDay, which we should see as
human connection because youknow, climate.
I'm wondering like, are we arewe going down a path where it's
going to be hard to avoid AI inthis because AI wants to learn
(25:12):
how humans interact and feel?
Dan (25:14):
Oh, terrific questions, Patty, all of them.
And I'm gonna throw in kind of ahard pivot now because I just
realized we're pretty far intothis episode and we have not
once mentioned Saint Valentine,like the guy this whole holiday
was named after.
So, how does that happen to havea holiday named after a person
and we can spend 25 minutes orso talking about it, and his
(25:36):
name doesn't even come up?
So, what does that tell us abouthow our traditions and holidays
change and evolve over time?
Oh, Dan, I love those questions.
Lynne (25:46):
Um, and you might have heard one of the legends around
Valentine was that he performedsecret marriage ceremonies.
That's why this holiday is allabout love.
But did you know the reason hedid those ceremonies was so
married men wouldn't get draftedinto the Roman army?
(26:07):
So this was all about opposingthe empire and keeping people
from being shipped off to war.
Also, why why am I always theone giving the history lesson?
Patti (26:16):
Because I am begging you to.
Um, between you and Dan, youknow I love a good origin story,
and I didn't know that.
And you know, listening to youreally got me to thinking, how
do we bring more of that to thisholiday, right?
Forget the flowers andchocolate.
Who am I kidding?
I want those two.
But how about we use thisholiday to bring more civil
(26:37):
disobedience to stand togetherfor the things we love, right?
Through peaceful protests.
What if that is what February14th started to look like?
Dan (26:46):
Patty and Lynn, I'm just struck by how the message of
Valentine's Day, uh,historically and even today, is
is just so counter-cultural inour current moment, right?
Where so many people arecommitting so many acts of
violence.
So, so yeah, how can we bringmore of that peaceful civil
disobedience to everyday life onFebruary 14th and all the days
(27:07):
around it?
Lynne (27:08):
That is the perfect way for us to wrap up.
Thank you both.
Um, so before we formally closeout this episode, we'll leave
you with a few final questionsto ponder.
Starting with how do you feelabout Valentine's Day?
And what's underneath thosefeelings?
And can you feel anythingshifting as you as you think
(27:32):
about it?
Dan (27:32):
And then let's ask ourselves how we can bring more
love into the world with ourvals and our gals and our pals.
Patti (27:40):
I can't help but think about Tina Turner singing into
my walk bin as I was a teenager,listening.
What's love got to do with itanyway?
Right.
And after today's episode, Igotta tell you, it turns out
love has a lot to do with it.
And I'm really starting tochange my own mind and ask a
(28:01):
different question is really,truly, so what is wrong with
celebrating?
What brings us together ashumans anyway?
And I just have to say, I'mgonna answer that.
We need it now more than ever.
Lynne (28:14):
As Anne Lamotte always says, love wins.
Dan (28:19):
And as Elvis Costello saying, what's so funny about
peace, love, and understanding,right?
So thanks for listening, folks.
Today's episode was sponsored byLove.
In all its forms and functions,love.
It makes the world go round.
Lynne (28:32):
Our music was composed by Jake Cuppernal, who we love.
Patti (28:36):
Our cover art was created by Mad's brand, who we also
love.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to Listening forthe Questions.
My name is Dan Ward.
I'm an engineer and militarytechnologist.
I'm also an author, a juggler,and a punk.
And I'll just say it, I'm aromantic.
Patti (00:25):
And I'm Dr.
Patty Fletcher.
I'm a recovering C-suiteexecutive from Big Tech, a
leadership futurist, a genderequity advocate who is bringing
new narratives to the marketabout women who disrupt, and a
best-selling author.
And I don't think I am aromantic.
I think I'm a realist.
Lynne (00:43):
I am Lynn Cupernal.
I'm a leadership coach.
I'm a healthcare consultant.
I'm a triathlete, and I'm a mom.
Sometimes I say that in myintro, sometimes I don't, but
given today's topic, I'm I'mowning it.
And I have a little bit of alove-hate relationship with our
topic today, which isValentine's Day.
Dan (01:03):
One of the things I love about this podcast, other than
getting to spend time with youtwo wonderful people, is that
even when we pick a topic likesandwiches or magic or a
specific holiday, we alwaysmanage to come up with really
interesting questions that gobeyond the obvious and are
anything but superficial.
So happy Valentine's Day to youboth.
And I think the first questionhas to be, hey Patty, hey Lynn,
(01:25):
will you two be my Valentine's?
Patti (01:27):
Happy Valentine's Day to you, Dan.
And let me answer that verydirectly.
As fond as I am of you, I willbe your Valentine only if I get
a return on investment thatincludes some pretty awesome
dark chocolate.
unknown (01:43):
Okay.
Lynne (01:44):
I'm in.
I love a dark chocolate too.
Um, but I'm really only in if wecan skip over the red roses
cliche and get straight to thedeep stuff.
Because I mean, honestly, myrelationship with this day is a
little bit complicated.
Dan (01:58):
Well, I gotta admit, I didn't bring chocolates or
flowers for anybody, uh, but Ido have some pretty good
questions we can talk about.
So let's dive in there.
Patti (02:05):
Let's get to it, right?
This is a topic about love, andeverybody has a strong feeling
about Valentine's Day.
It is everyone wants to beloved.
They want to have people thatthey can love.
And yet the big feelings aboutthe day of love, right?
This dedicated day of love,Valentine's Day, really brings
out these extreme, like all forit, and so many more who just
(02:27):
kind of roll their eyes at thetopic.
And, you know, it really makesme wonder why is that, right?
I definitely have some strongfeelings about Valentine's Day,
although I love it, like yousaid, Lynn, right?
Like complex and complicated.
So why do some people love it?
And why do some people hate it?
And how can a day dedicated tolove be so polarizing?
Lynne (02:48):
Such good questions.
Um, and I'm wondering if thosestrong polarized reactions
explain why it persists as aholiday.
Nobody has strong feelingsabout, I don't know, Arbor Day,
right?
I I don't even know when ArborDay is.
Dan (03:06):
Oh, Lynn, I don't know when Arbor Day is either.
Uh, and Arbor Day is like alegitimately beautiful holiday,
right?
It's about caring for theenvironment.
It's about going outside andplanting trees.
And I remember kind of lovingArbor Day when I was a kid, like
in elementary school, but Idon't think I've really thought
about that one for years.
So I wonder, what would it taketo get a Valentine's Day level
(03:28):
response around a holiday likeArbor Day?
Lynne (03:33):
I don't know, actually.
I know we're not answeringquestions.
I don't know the answer to thatquestion.
Uh, and I think I'm gonna putout a fairly common position
here when I say I thinkValentine's Day persists as a
holiday to keep the cardindustry afloat.
Um, although when I worked inbookstores in my early 20s, the
(03:54):
days leading up to Valentine'sDay were some of our biggest
sales days, which I founddelightful.
Um, although I've never gotten abook for Valentine's Day, hint
hint, those of my loved ones outthere listening, uh, I would
absolutely love to.
And so it leads me to wonder whyare chocolates and flowers the
(04:16):
more commonly, you know, go-togifts.
I think it said something aboutsociety, at least in the US, the
view of what women want.
And do women get more gifts thanmen on Valentine's Day?
And why?
Dan (04:28):
Yeah, I'm with you, Lynn.
I love to give books.
I love to get books.
And how cool that your bookstorewas busy at this time of year.
So we should make that a thing.
How do we make that a thing?
Giving people books onValentine's Day.
I am here for that.
Patti (04:39):
I love that.
I don't know if there's anational book reading day,
right?
But I I love that.
You know, you brought up the US,Lynn, and listening to both of
you.
I lived in the United Kingdomfor quite a while and certainly
did my stints in in Asia and,you know, worked all over the
globe.
I will say that the US is somuch more commercialized around
Valentine's Day.
And in England, they have folksthat will do things like I'll
(05:02):
sing for a candy, right?
I mean, certainly there was thecards and the chocolates and
potentially the romance, butnothing, nothing like it is
here.
It's less performative in theother countries I've been to
from a cultural perspective.
And I think that's one of thechallenges I, as not a cynic,
but a realist.
I think, what are you trying topull over on me today if you're
(05:23):
going to be this performativeabout Valentine's Day?
It might be the Bostonian in me.
Maybe it's because it like itfeels scheduled, it feels put
on, that it feels so artificial.
But like, why do I have thisthing that it needs to be
spontaneous in order to be real?
And maybe that's because, youknow, my love language is more
about acts of service.
(05:44):
Um, and you know, what does thatlook like versus gift giving,
right?
That's how I appreciate beingbeing loved.
And, you know, for me, I startto think about like, what is
really lost in terms of showingyour love to someone when you
have to calendar it, right?
When the calendar gets involved.
And then, you know, kind ofgoing back to to what we were
(06:05):
talking about when we wereprepping for this show is like
love is a pretty awesome thing.
So why do I have such a hardtime having a day dedicated to
celebrating it?
I don't feel pressure, butthat's certainly what I hear
from other people.
What do you two think?
Lynne (06:20):
Yes, I gosh, buddy, you asked a lot of questions there
and said a lot of things.
And I do think there issomething to the it's the one
day.
And I think about theconversation we had about New
Year's resolutions, right?
Maybe we don't have to set themjust at the new year.
Let's not think that we onlyneed to express love for people,
(06:41):
whether we say it out loud,whether we give a card, whether
we give a gift on Valentine'sDay, and I do think it's that
pressure of the one day that uhmakes people, I can only speak
for myself, but makes peoplefeel kind of uh about it.
And then I'm also thinking aboutthis whole Hallmark holiday and
how that is like an eye-rollingthing.
(07:03):
But I mean, really, is givingpeople a card to say how you
feel about them so terrible?
Although it does also lead me tothink about who benefits from
the commercialization ofValentine's Day?
Dan (07:16):
Ooh, Lynn, I love where you're going there.
You know, our regular listenersmight have noticed we love to
ask that kind of question.
Who benefits from the situation?
And at the same time, like, isit really so bad for a company
to benefit financially byencouraging people to express
their feelings of affection foreach other?
Right?
Is that something that we wantto complain about?
(07:36):
And I wonder, like, what if morecompanies created more holidays
or more people expressedaffection and gave each other
chocolates or books?
Would that make the world abetter place or a worse place?
I don't know.
Maybe that's my my romanticroots coming out and showing.
Patti (07:51):
And the marketer in me is like, go for it, right?
I think it's it's really thisum, you know, kind of question
of is it transactional or is itauthentic, right?
And that's kind of what I hear.
Everybody believes Hallmarkcreated this for self-serving
reasons, and yet we all seem toparticipate or get angry when we
don't.
But, you know, we do call itthat Hallmark holiday.
(08:14):
But is this really just anotherkind of massive data sink,
right?
Are we all forced to run thesame affection.exe file at the
same exact time and at leastover the course of our
lifetimes.
Like, I don't remember aGalantine's Day or a Palentine's
Day growing up, right?
I had shared with you folks, andwe were sharing stories about
(08:34):
like by the time we got to highschool, it was less about
handing out the little cuteValentine's Day cards with the
little goodie bags and sendingsecret roses, right?
And the school I went to,everybody got the same color
rose, whether you were a friendor a romantic interest or
whatever.
So, like, I love that part ofthat Valentine's Day has evolved
to different kinds of love.
(08:57):
But the Palentine's Day is anewer um concept for me.
I hadn't really heard that.
I did hear it from my oldestdaughter, who's part of the um
LGBTQ community.
But like, is Palentine's Dayjust like a gender-neutral
version?
And how do you two feel aboutthe leveling of the playing
field on the day?
Is it just Hallmark'sopportunity to send more, sell
(09:20):
more cards?
Dan (09:21):
Yeah, you know, I think Palantine's Day is supposed to
be about friendship, uh, asopposed to the Valentine's Day
for romantic connections.
So maybe my opening questionshould have been to ask both of
you if you will be myPalantine's.
Uh and I am told that the aceand arrow folks, uh, that's
asexual and aromantic, uh, folkstend to look at Palantine's Day
as just a lovely affirmation ofthat broader spectrum of love
(09:44):
and friendship.
So that makes me wonder, andmaybe the question we should be
asking here is what would itlook like for all of us to like
really affirm and really includethe full spectrum of human
relationships?
Love, affection, friendship.
And I can't help put myengineering hat on here a little
bit and think about logistics.
Are we kind of creating a peakloading problem by packing all
(10:07):
that into a single day?
Lynne (10:09):
Right, which is what we've been talking about a
little bit, right?
Not just one day in February.
Uh I have to just I'm pausing onthe pal and the gal and the val.
This is maybe a time when weshould have like a Gen Zer on
our podcast because we're usingthese terms that are, I have to
(10:31):
say it, a little bit uhanachronistic.
Is that the word?
Anyway, so I there's no questionthere.
I just had to point that out.
So I know Patty's gonna likethis.
I'm gonna bring in AI.
Does this forced expression oflove or this like feeling forced
to express love, does it carryless data than a spontaneous
(10:52):
one?
I'm thinking, Patty, about whatyou were saying earlier about
spontaneity.
Or is it is it the effort ofparticipating in the ritual, the
gift itself?
Patti (11:01):
Yeah, you know, I I think some questions I would ask
there, because I have anotherthought too on the other side of
the spectrum, is as a marketer,some of the questions that I
would be asking the data rightaround AI is kind of what you
know, you two were talking aboutin the beginning.
We're talking about books andsales and all of that stuff,
right?
Like, what is driving thatexpression of love?
(11:22):
When is it driving it?
And who is participating in it?
And that's no doubt wherePalantine's Day and Galantine's
Day, right, really kind of tookoff because people were
celebrating those things.
And then how are you going touse marketing to have this
forced expression of love?
And what if you hate Valentine'sDay?
That's what people hate is thatbeing told forcibly to
(11:46):
participate in a holiday thatcelebrates someone loving you
and who you love, but what ifyou aren't in a relationship,
right?
Or what if you don't have aclose group of friends?
There's research that came out,I think it was last week, that
shows, you know, we we all havethis ideal that the only way to
be happy is to have a big groupof friends, right?
Like the show friends, but mostof us actually don't, especially
(12:08):
the older in life, right?
So is it just are people hatingValentine's Day because it
reinforces that they don't havea community of love around them?
Or, you know, what are some ofthe other reasons people really
don't like this holiday?
Lynne (12:23):
Patty, I think, I mean, I think you're on to something.
I was just thinking, sittingwith the, you know, what else is
underneath our our discomfort orour feelings about this this
holiday?
And I think it's that deepfeeling of being left out,
right?
That worry of being left out,uh, whether it's romantic love
(12:44):
or just friends.
Um, I mean, I still remember myfeelings about Valentine's Day
from when I was a kid.
I'm grateful I was part of anera when we gave Valentine's to
everybody in the class.
I and I think that's still thecase, or at least it was for my
kids.
But wow, I can also stillremember, and this has been a
long time ago, the thought thatwent into picking out which
(13:09):
Valentine you gave to whichperson, uh, because they were
not all created equal.
And then equal analyticalthought in assessing the meaning
behind that the Valentine thatthe boy with the big brown eyes
gave, which all of which leadsme to wonder how do these
earliest experiences of love,all forms, all forms of love,
(13:30):
shape what we seek as adults?
Patti (13:33):
I had a different experience growing up.
You didn't have to give aValentine to everybody.
And it kind of reminded me oflike Battle of the Network stars
meets dodgeball.
Like it was everything like withme growing up, you know, I'm a
Gen Xer for those of ourlisteners who don't know that.
And it we were just thisgeneration, man.
(13:53):
We we definitely caught someflack from the baby boomers who
who raised us and raised us tobe pretty tough.
I think we we all have adifferent definition of what
that could look like now, butnot everybody got a Valentine.
And so what we would end updoing is it became it was like a
schoolyard pick, right?
And definitely I remember likegoing, okay, who am I gonna give
a Valentine to?
And who's gonna get this oneversus that one, right?
(14:16):
Like, what does that look like?
We didn't give candy with itlike I did when with the kids,
my kids grew up giving one toeveryone, but it was also like
we'd literally count them up andhave like a competition of who
got more Valentine cards.
I mean, it was awful, it wasterrible.
And then my goodness, when westarted doing the rose thing and
buying the secret roses in in inschool, in high school, that was
(14:40):
even worse.
I mean, I was definitely one ofthe losers.
Yeah, I say that.
I remember my freshman year, Ididn't get any roses.
It it changed after that.
But it was like, it was likethis walk of shame, right?
And so maybe there's some ofthat around the shame component
of that maybe draws people tohave such strong feelings about
(15:03):
that.
But you know, for me, it wassocialized very early on.
Dan (15:06):
You know, I think these early experiences just end up
being so influential on us.
And I wonder, is is this when welearn to associate love with
candy?
And I'm also curious, how do weend up with two candy-based
holidays that are so different?
Right?
I'm talking about Valentine'sDay and Halloween.
Like, could there be twoholidays that are more different
than those two and they stillmanage to have candy in common?
(15:30):
Why is it whether we want to bescared or we want to be loved,
we always want candy?
Lynne (15:35):
Well, again, US culture we're talking about here.
Um, and maybe we should startwearing costumes on how or on
Valentine's Day.
That might make it more fun andless stressful.
Um, and maybe that's the problemwith Arbor Day.
There's no candy.
Uh, what if we celebrated ArborDay, which we still don't know
what it is, um, by giving eachother little chocolate trees or
(15:58):
something?
Would that would people love itmore?
Dan (16:00):
Lynn, that's a great thought.
And I'm I'm wondering now, whatif it's not the candy that's
missing from Arbor Day?
What if it's theperson-to-person connection?
It's that that experience ofgiving each other something,
whether it's candy or flowers orbooks or trees, because there's
this connection between givingand receiving gifts and feeling
love, right?
Patti (16:19):
You know, this whole concept about love is so
interesting because, and by theway, I just have to, as a side
note, thanks for that wholeconnection with Halloween,
because I never put those twothings together.
It's it's crazy.
So I love that.
See what happens, listeners,when we listen for the
questions?
Um, but you know, this wholething about love, right?
And it's so it is performative,and I'm going to give someone I
(16:41):
love, a friend, a colleague, alover, a partner, whatever.
Isn't love supposed to startwith self-love?
Why aren't we celebrating thaton Valentine's Day?
Can't we all get behind lovingourselves?
Because when we love ourselves,doesn't that better us enable to
love other people?
Lynne (16:59):
Yes.
That's a great question, Patty.
I think we should sit with thatone now, this Valentine's Day.
And add a similar one, which ishow how do we practice
self-compassion aroundValentine's Day?
Take away some of the pressureand the expectations.
Dan (17:18):
Lynn, I love where you're going with that.
If we do feel weird aboutValentine's Day, how do we feel
less weird about it?
And does that begin with feelingless weird about ourselves and
accepting ourselves and lovingourselves?
And then from a gender equityperspective, one of my favorite
topics for this podcast, youknow, we could ask about
expectations when it comes togiving gifts and receiving gifts
(17:41):
on Valentine's Day.
And I have to admit, I struggledwith the prep for this episode
more than usual because it'skind of a fraught topic, right?
So I wondered like, how do wehave an honest and a curious
conversation about Valentine'sDay without sounding cynical or
sappy or creepy?
Uh, although I don't mindsounding sappy.
(18:02):
I just don't want to sound likethe other two.
Patti (18:04):
I'm happy you have standards.
I was listening to Dan, and youwere talking about expectations,
right?
When it comes to giving giftsand receiving gifts.
And as I was listening to yourthought process there, what
really struck out at me isValentine's Day is one of those
days where we're asking peopleto be vulnerable very openly
about their feelings.
(18:25):
And, you know, maybe it'sdifferent in a committed
relationship.
Some of us, I'm not saying Ihave, have been with people who
we were romantically involvedwith and they forgot Valentine's
Day.
Um, you know, like that doesn'tfeel great, but you're it's such
a vulnerability on both thegiving and the receiving end.
And is maybe that some of thechallenge we have is
(18:47):
vulnerability.
Dan (18:48):
Patty, what an interesting question.
And it makes me think thatHalloween is about being
vulnerable too, just a differenttype of vulnerability.
So maybe that's another thingthat Halloween and Valentine's
Day have in common, not justcandy, but but feeling
vulnerable.
And how did we end up with uhholidays that are both kind of
exploring that that feeling ofvulnerability?
(19:10):
Like what's what's that about?
Patti (19:11):
And could I tepee or egg your house if you don't give me
a Valentine?
Just like if you decide to jerkme instead and give me a treat
for Halloween.
Lynne (19:21):
Well, Patty, I 100% think you can uh TP Dan's house if you
don't get a Valentine from him.
But Dan, I actually I want to goback to something you said about
Halloween and vulnerability.
I don't see where that comes in.
I I actually see Halloween iswe're hiding ourselves, right?
We're we're putting on acostume.
Um, so connect the dots for me.
(19:42):
Where's the where does thevulnerability come in?
Dan (19:44):
Oh, great question.
Uh, I guess what I wasenvisioning with the
vulnerability on Halloween isthat it's a day to be scared.
And to be scared is to feelvulnerable.
And maybe we address thatvulnerability by also being
scary by putting on a costume,but sort of the watching the
scary movie or or looking atscary decorations, uh, that can
(20:06):
introduce some feelings ofvulnerability.
Is it does that kind of makesense?
Lynne (20:10):
Yes, yes.
And I know we're mostly justlistening for questions, um, but
I really wanted to hear yourthoughts on that.
So thank you.
Dan (20:15):
Yeah, that's a that's a great uh way to clarify the
question.
Patti (20:18):
This is why we have three people doing this this podcast,
because I was just stuck on thecandy level.
Um, so I hope that I have somedeep thinkers as friends.
You know, I you know I'm gonnabring AI up.
Lynn brought it up, I'm gonnabring it up.
We talked a little bit on aprevious episode about how in
Japan a woman married an AI botbecause you know she was able to
(20:41):
create the the ideal partnerthat she wanted, and men because
there aren't a lot of availablewomen and young women who are in
Japan, are creatingrelationships with AI robots.
You know, it kind of makes mewonder is the next iteration of
this Hallmark holiday going tobe AI and asking them to be the
(21:01):
Valentine?
Like we are the last generation,Gen Gen X and older millennials
to, as Benny, Mark Bennyhofffrom Salesforce said, the last
generation to have ledhuman-only um workforces, right?
And I would argue the last tohave human-only relationships.
How should we be thinking aboutour relationships with all the
AI agents and bots that are outthere that we're creating in and
(21:25):
kind of to mirror what we want?
And how does that go with love?
Lynne (21:29):
I'm I'm sitting with how I felt, Patty, when you talked
about AI and Valentine's Day.
I I felt icky.
It just made me feel like, oh,sort of sad.
And I know that this episode istalking about Valentine's Day.
I think there are questions weneed to be asking about this
(21:50):
epidemic of loneliness.
I think we are experiencing asexperiencing as a collective
culture, not just in the US.
And Uh, the relationships thatpeople are forming with AI, I
feel like is just hugely endemicof that.
So I guess my question is (22:07):
what are the questions we should be
exploring about loneliness?
Dan (22:12):
Yeah, I mean, if we think of Valentine's Day at its best,
is a way to reduce loneliness,to build connections and share
expressions of love that mightotherwise go unshared or unsaid.
And then at its worst, it canmake the loneliness worse as
people feel left out andexcluded or performative.
(22:33):
All of the things that we'vetalked about.
So I guess maybe a question toask is how do we do the best
version of something likeValentine's Day in a way that is
inclusive and welcoming andgenuinely loving?
And how do we avoid the harmfuldownside of this type of uh a
holiday or this type of anactivity?
(22:53):
I again I don't have an answerfor those, but but that's I
think a good question to beasking.
How do we make sure we'rebuilding the good version of
this and not the harmful versionof it?
Patti (23:02):
I love that.
And we know that there is powerin consumerism.
And ladies, you are responsiblefor 90% of all consumer buy
decisions.
So when it comes to thisholiday, choose wisely, just
like you would any holiday.
You know, Lynn, I want to goback to something that you said
about, you know, when AI comesup and this topic and having AI
(23:26):
as your Valentine or whatevertime it's going to end up being,
um, how it made you feel icky.
And I'm with you 100%.
And Dan, as I was listening toyou talk, like I wonder if
that's how people who have adisdain for it and they're
disguising their theirvulnerability with anger, which
many of us do, right?
Is it because they feel icky?
(23:48):
Right.
And then I also wonder, youknow, I never believe a
artificial intelligence oraugmented intelligence should
ever replace humans.
But what if you simply don'thave people in your life and you
need something to feel loved,right?
As long as it's not replacingit, but at least kind of stop
(24:09):
gapping.
But is that so bad?
And then of course it becomeswhat is our responsibility in
feeding the beast on that,right?
The beast being AI.
It's it's so interesting when wethink about we are in a state
of, and this is not a technologyepisode, but we got to talk
about it.
We have gone from usingtechnology to do things faster,
right?
(24:29):
And to do things, you know, forless money.
It's been very transactional.
And now with agentic AI and thenmoving forward, it really is
about AI learning from us, notjust in those consumer trends.
I talked about as a marketer,but and beyond sentiment, it's
about feelings and emotions andempathy and compassion and all
(24:49):
of that stuff.
And it's gonna be, I wonder ifit's gonna be harder and harder
as we get to these, like, and Ilove that that this is a human
connection holiday, unlike ArborDay, which we should see as
human connection because youknow, climate.
I'm wondering like, are we arewe going down a path where it's
going to be hard to avoid AI inthis because AI wants to learn
(25:12):
how humans interact and feel?
Dan (25:14):
Oh, terrific questions, Patty, all of them.
And I'm gonna throw in kind of ahard pivot now because I just
realized we're pretty far intothis episode and we have not
once mentioned Saint Valentine,like the guy this whole holiday
was named after.
So, how does that happen to havea holiday named after a person
and we can spend 25 minutes orso talking about it, and his
(25:36):
name doesn't even come up?
So, what does that tell us abouthow our traditions and holidays
change and evolve over time?
Oh, Dan, I love those questions.
Lynne (25:46):
Um, and you might have heard one of the legends around
Valentine was that he performedsecret marriage ceremonies.
That's why this holiday is allabout love.
But did you know the reason hedid those ceremonies was so
married men wouldn't get draftedinto the Roman army?
(26:07):
So this was all about opposingthe empire and keeping people
from being shipped off to war.
Also, why why am I always theone giving the history lesson?
Patti (26:16):
Because I am begging you to.
Um, between you and Dan, youknow I love a good origin story,
and I didn't know that.
And you know, listening to youreally got me to thinking, how
do we bring more of that to thisholiday, right?
Forget the flowers andchocolate.
Who am I kidding?
I want those two.
But how about we use thisholiday to bring more civil
(26:37):
disobedience to stand togetherfor the things we love, right?
Through peaceful protests.
What if that is what February14th started to look like?
Dan (26:46):
Patty and Lynn, I'm just struck by how the message of
Valentine's Day, uh,historically and even today, is
is just so counter-cultural inour current moment, right?
Where so many people arecommitting so many acts of
violence.
So, so yeah, how can we bringmore of that peaceful civil
disobedience to everyday life onFebruary 14th and all the days
(27:07):
around it?
Lynne (27:08):
That is the perfect way for us to wrap up.
Thank you both.
Um, so before we formally closeout this episode, we'll leave
you with a few final questionsto ponder.
Starting with how do you feelabout Valentine's Day?
And what's underneath thosefeelings?
And can you feel anythingshifting as you as you think
(27:32):
about it?
Dan (27:32):
And then let's ask ourselves how we can bring more
love into the world with ourvals and our gals and our pals.
Patti (27:40):
I can't help but think about Tina Turner singing into
my walk bin as I was a teenager,listening.
What's love got to do with itanyway?
Right.
And after today's episode, Igotta tell you, it turns out
love has a lot to do with it.
And I'm really starting tochange my own mind and ask a
(28:01):
different question is really,truly, so what is wrong with
celebrating?
What brings us together ashumans anyway?
And I just have to say, I'mgonna answer that.
We need it now more than ever.
Lynne (28:14):
As Anne Lamotte always says, love wins.
Dan (28:19):
And as Elvis Costello saying, what's so funny about
peace, love, and understanding,right?
So thanks for listening, folks.
Today's episode was sponsored byLove.
In all its forms and functions,love.
It makes the world go round.
Lynne (28:32):
Our music was composed by Jake Cuppernal, who we love.
Patti (28:36):
Our cover art was created by Mad's brand, who we also
love.
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