January 30, 2025 • 53 mins
Exceptional customer service isn’t just a bonus—it’s the foundation of a thriving small business. In this episode of Monkey Business Radio, we dive into what makes great customer service stand out, why so many businesses fall short, and how simply showing up on time and doing what you say you’ll do can feel like an industry “innovation” in today’s world.
We’re joined by Brian Lovejoy, owner of Lovejoy Carpet Care, who shares his firsthand experience building a business where exceptional service isn’t just a goal—it’s the standard. Alongside hosts Chris Collins and Dennis Siggins of American Gutter Monkeys, we explore how home service businesses can rise above today’s low customer expectations by committing to reliability, professionalism, and follow-through.
If you’re a small business owner, franchisee, or aspiring entrepreneur, this episode is packed with insights on how to turn customer service into your competitive edge. Tune in to learn why the little things—like answering the phone and showing up—make all the difference in customer loyalty and business success.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:03):
Every once in a while someone comes along, shocks the
establishment with a newinnovation and a tired industry
From the movie Moneyball.
Here's how Boston Red Sox ownerJohn Henry put it.
Dennis (00:12):
Really, what it's threatening is their livelihoods
, their jobs.
It's threatening the way theydo things and every time that
happens whether it's thegovernment, a way of doing
business, or whatever the peoplewho are holding the reins they
have their hands on the switch.
They go batshit crazy.
Hello.
Chris (00:28):
I'm Chris Collins, your host.
In this podcast.
We dive into stories ofinnovation, resilience and what
it takes to shake up an industry.
Joining me is my co-host andresident small business expert,
dennis Siggins, or, as he'sknown on the Cape and Islands,
bobby Downspout.
Dennis, along with his collegeroommate, andy Brennan, founded
the Cape Cod Gutter Monkeys andtransformed the humble task of
(00:48):
gutter cleaning into a thriving,multi-million dollar business
that redefined the game.
Together, we'll uncover thestrategies, lessons and
inspirations behind building andgrowing a successful business.
So, whether you're here forbusiness insights, inspiration
or just a great story, you're inthe right place.
Grab a cup of coffee, sit back,relax and welcome to Monkey
(01:10):
Business Radio.
Hello everyone, welcome toEpisode 4 of Monkey Business
Radio.
Monkeying around with customerservice.
I'm your host, chris Collins,and, as always, I'm joined with
Dennis Siggins of the Cape CodGuider Monkeys.
Hello Dennis, how you doing,chris?
How are you today?
(01:30):
Not too bad, not too bad Good.
We've got a special guesttonight.
We're really excited here todaybecause we have Brian Lovejoy,
owner of Lovejoy Carpet Care.
Over 38 years of experience incarpet, rug, upholstery cleaning
, brian's built a business knownfor exceptional customer
service and he's here tonight toshare some insights on how
(01:52):
service drives customer loyaltyand business growth.
So welcome to the show, brian.
Brian (01:57):
Thanks, chris, great to be here.
Chris (01:58):
Yeah, it's good to see you Made it through a little bit
of snow this morning and yeah,we're excited to have our first
guest first guest on the episode.
Dennis (02:05):
Yep absolutely.
Chris (02:07):
So why don't we start off with?
I'm curious how you guys endedup on a podcast in Mashpee
Massachusetts.
After all these years, after allthese years, what the?
hell happened.
Dennis (02:17):
I don't know.
Brian, where do we start?
Well, the beginning would be inMarlborough, right it?
was
Brian (02:22):
Yep would be in.
Marlborough right,
Dennis (02:23):
it was yeah, you guys both at one time had a cleaning
business.
Chris (02:27):
You owned a cleaning business, didn't you, dennis
Babs?
Dennis (02:29):
and I probably were married but just about to be
married maybe and Brian answeredan ad and he came to work for
our company.
We had just started carpet andupholstery cleaning business
back in the early 1980s andBrian was our first employee.
Chris (02:45):
Oh, cool, cool.
So after all these years,you're still in the business of
carpet cleaning.
Dennis (02:49):
We actually still get.
Along.
Actually yeah, how long have Iknown you, god, since what?
Freshman year in high school?
Chris (02:55):
Freshman year in high school, yeah.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Been a few years.
Yeah, so longer than I care tocare to think about some nights.
So, brian, I really we hit itoff.
Dennis (03:08):
I took a detour in the mid 80s, got out of the business
and my wife and I got into adifferent business at the time
and Brian just stayed the coursein the carpet, upholstery and
flooring business.
He could probably give you moreinsight on that business.
Brian (03:27):
He could probably give you more insight on that.
Yeah, I just um figuredstarting my own little company
to to get by and try to grow bethe best course.
Chris (03:32):
And 38, 40 years later, here we are you want to share a
little bit about uh, about yourcompany no, no, no, just kidding
how big that's funny.
I'm sorry, that's good so yeah,how big are you guys?
Brian (03:51):
We're a small company.
It's my son and I and ourexcellent employee Paul.
We run two trucks.
We have a rug cleaning shop,which is a lot of fun just to do
orientals and a lot of woolrugs and a few silk rugs too,
which are always an adventure.
But yeah, so that's where we'reat now.
(04:13):
We're growing a little bit andlooking at a third truck and
maybe an employee or two thisyear and keep moving on.
Chris (04:23):
Great, great, all right.
Well, let's dive in totonight's topic customer service
.
So I'd love to hear what youthink about customer service,
how you kind of define it insideyour own business.
You know you've got differentbusinesses now gutters and
carpet cleaning but from ourconversations it sounds like
you're both sort of on the samepage when it comes to what it
takes to deliver, you know,really truly great customer
service.
It comes to what it takes todeliver really truly great
(04:44):
customer service.
Dennis (04:45):
Chris, customer service has a lot of meanings for
different businesses anddifferent people.
I've dabbled in the contractingbusiness, the food service
business, the exercise business.
I've owned companies over theyears in many different
businesses.
But in my world right now weare in the gutter cleaning,
gutter repairs, maintenance andgutter installation home service
(05:09):
business.
So I guess tonight's topicreally would be customer service
in the home service industry.
I think you would probablyqualify yourself as the same
Brian, right, Exactly, we're notreally contractors.
Rarely, if ever, do me and or mycompany ever do a job that
takes more than a couple hours.
(05:30):
Gutter cleaning maybe take anhour or two.
Gutter installs can takeanywhere from an hour to maybe
six or eight hours.
But we're not contractors perse.
I look at us as a homeservice-based company per se.
I look at us as a homeservice-based company.
Another lifelong friend of mine, somebody I've known since my
(05:53):
teenage years, Andy Brennan.
He and I started the GutterMonkeys 10 years ago, 10 and a
half years ago, and at the verybeginning we kind of agreed on
this premise If we answer thephones, show up on time, do a
good job, charge a fair price,then that's it.
We'll be rock stars, Right, andit's worked out well, and
that's what customer service is.
Chris (06:12):
Yeah.
Dennis (06:13):
You know, it's the support that you offer your
customers through a businessrelationship.
Chris (06:18):
That's customer service 73% of customers say that
exceptional customer serviceearns their loyalty.
Not regular, you know, ordinarycustomer service.
Brian (06:30):
Yeah, it's relative, though I think you know
exceptional service is differentto everybody.
I think, like Dennis was saying, unfortunately today, doing
what you say you're going to do,showing up on time, then a lot
of people think that'sexceptional.
I mean, we show up forestimates and people think
that's exceptional.
Dennis (06:49):
Exceptional service is not our goal, it's our standard
way of doing business, and ifyou can establish that with your
office staff, your field teamand everybody in between, then
exceptional service becomes thenorm and it doesn't seem
exceptional anymore.
Under-promise, over-deliver.
Brian (07:11):
Exactly.
Dennis (07:11):
So, Chris, like I say back in the beginning, what Andy
and I decided and this is in2014, we were going to use
today's technology and, at thesame time, a lot of old school
strategies.
And, at the same time, a lot ofold school strategies like
picking up the phone, you know,returning calls as soon as you
possibly can Not tomorrow, notthe next day.
(07:33):
I mean, we get thanked everyday for picking up the phone,
having a conversation andscheduling an appointment.
People just thank us for that.
Brian (07:50):
And we haven't even got there yet and done the work.
Dennis (07:51):
So unusual, I guess people now have decided that
that's extraordinary customerservice.
It's a different model, becausea lot of the younger kids have
grown up with cell phones andtechnology, and none of us here
did so.
If you're 35 years old andyou're a skilled business owner,
you may be able to do a lot ofthe stuff that we do in the
office.
You can do that on your cellphone, but there are some pieces
to the puzzle that can't bereplaced via a cell phone, and
(08:15):
so that's where this sort of oldschool model has a leg up is.
You know, I would call it theold school office model, where
there's always somebody at thephone during normal business
hours and addressing the needsof the person who's calling the
customer.
Chris (08:36):
This seems to be a reoccurring theme.
This old school is innovationnowadays.
You know, because people havegotten away from it, that it's
being viewed as innovative.
You know, having a having alandline is an innovative idea.
Dennis (08:48):
It's different.
Sometimes the young kidsthey'll kid me about.
You know my lack of skill inthe technology world, but I work
with young business owners allthe time and one of the
comparisons I make is that, yeah, I'm a little hesitant to go
all in on all of today'stechnology, but you, the
(09:10):
30-year-old upstart businessowner, is scared to death of a
landline and a desktop computer.
And there's the gap.
There's the gap right there.
Hey, chris, before we go, letme just.
I was reading an article theother day and it was in Zendesk,
and this popped up and becausewe were prepping for a customer
(09:31):
service podcast, I'll throw thisout Bad customer service.
Here is what a Zendesk authorcited as the top five things
that are identified as badcustomer service A lack of
empathy, just like we don't care.
Customers can't reach you,meaning they can't get in touch
(09:52):
with you.
Chris (09:53):
Yeah, that drives me crazy.
Dennis (09:55):
Poor automated phone systems, long wait times and
being transferred too many times.
Now, this is just one articlethat I happen to read, but if
you look at those, you know fourout of the five have to do with
communication.
Right, exactly, communication'shuge yeah.
Chris (10:17):
Yeah, there's a Zappos story.
I don't know if you heard it.
Zappos always wanted theircustomers to be very well
received when they're beingtalked to on the phone, so they
encourage their employees totalk to them.
Take as much time as you need.
They have one instance herethat they talk about.
It's a really interesting storywhere they spent 10 hours on
the phone with a customer.
So they just sat there becausethe customer just was
(10:40):
interacting constant, constantly.
The employee had been told youknow, you need to interact with
the customer and stay with them,stay with them.
So it was a 10-hour phone callthat they had with the guys at
Zappos.
Brian (10:50):
Very cool.
I like it.
Well, yeah, I've had anexperience like that and a
customer called me about a stockrug she had and she had all
these issues with it Nothingthat I could fix.
Fix.
Her problem was with thecompany, the manufacturer, and
she wanted me to come out take alook at it and want to know how
(11:12):
much I would charge.
And I just told I just want tosee it now, but it sounds very
interesting, so there'd be nocharge.
So you know, I ran up there andit it was quite educational.
It just came to mind.
But yeah, it's just, people arefunny and listening is
(11:33):
apparently an art these days andit's really not that difficult.
Chris (11:38):
She probably appreciated you being there and talking
about the rug.
Brian (11:42):
So I sold some rug protector while I was there.
That was all good.
There you go all right.
Chris (11:49):
So it's more than answering phones.
I guess customer service iskind of a bridge between your
marketing turning a first-timecaller into a loyal repeat
customer marketing is where itall begins yeah, we did a whole
show last week, dennis on onmarketing was it last week?
Yeah, yeah, you know it's ablur now, huh, already Time
flies.
Five shows in and you'realready oh.
Dennis (12:11):
Marketing is expensive only if it doesn't make the
phone ring number one.
But when you begin a marketingprogram, you know you choose
your target market.
You choose your target market.
(12:39):
If my target market is 60 to80-year-old ladies, I have to
gear my customer service towardthen pass it through to you and
then you, the owner of thecompany, get back to them
through an email or a text or insome fashion like that.
60 to 80 year old women wantyou to pick up the phone, they
want to have a chat with you,they want you to problem solve.
(13:01):
You know I have a problem withmy gutters, I have a problem
with my rugs, and your officestaff member will then address
those needs and come up with asolution.
And here's a solution I'm goingto send somebody out and we are
going to do A, b, c and D andthe number one goal there is to
(13:22):
ease the customer's mind aboutwhat he or she is going through.
That's your target market.
If you're in the 50 or 60 to 80year old range, if your target
market is 24 to 32 year oldwomen, that may not be the best
method.
So when it comes to marketing,identifying your target market
(13:42):
and attracting the people fromthat target market comes first,
and then you have to design yourcustomer service process
accordingly.
Make sense.
Chris (13:52):
Yeah, sounds good.
Yeah, I saw an interestingquote the other day.
It was about Ritz-Carlton howthey did their customer service
and their tagline for years andyears was always ladies and
gentlemen, serviced by ladiesand gentlemen.
So they knew exactly who theywere looking for and they knew
exactly who in their customerminds, who was answering the
(14:13):
phone All right, brian.
Dennis (14:15):
What's your target market Age?
I mean Everything.
Okay, do ladies do most of thescheduling Age brackets?
What are we looking at?
Brian (14:25):
Yeah, we're looking at, our target market is probably 35
to 55-year-old women, marriedhomeowners, couple, kids, dogs.
Dennis (14:38):
Couple of dogs.
Couple of dogs, there you go.
Brian (14:42):
The more dogs everybody wins, the more dogs the better.
Yeah, that's right, and so,yeah, that's it.
Then you throw in an incomelevel there as well, of course,
the demographics of kids anddogs.
That's generally a higherincome level, as it is.
Sure yeah.
Chris (15:02):
How about the rental market now?
You've got a lot of Airbnbs andstuff that need to be cleaned a
lot.
I know we have one up in NewHampshire and we have a carpet
cleaner guy on speed dial upthere.
Brian (15:12):
No, we don't, Well, not in our service area.
Chris (15:18):
That's probably true.
It's probably very service areaspecific.
Brian (15:21):
There is, I think, one lady who calls us and I don't
know if it's Airbnb or just likeshe gets a lot of bad tenants.
Dennis (15:30):
I don't know, what it?
Brian (15:31):
is because they're out quickly.
But so, yeah, not so muchAirbnb.
That would be interesting, butno, basically, we do have some
apartment owners who always callus with the turnover.
We do have some apartmentowners who always call us with
the turnover, but mainlyhomeowners, condo owners and
pets Everybody get a pet, go geta dog.
Dennis (15:57):
Who does?
Chris (15:57):
your carpets up north, it's Ed Martin.
Dennis (15:58):
You know him well.
Chris (15:59):
He just sold a business.
Dennis (16:00):
I knew his dad.
Oh wow, Know Ed yeah, Sure HiEd if you're listening.
Great.
Chris (16:05):
Yeah, I know I've known ed martin for years he's on
special and I tell you theexceptional customer service I
mean he's a good egg.
Yeah, he is airbnbs, you knowyou only have.
You know your turnaround timeis very small.
Yeah, and we call him on a onspeed dial, say, hey, you know
wine glass, you know.
Can you help us, and why?
Dennis (16:21):
is that?
What's that?
Why do you call him and why is?
Chris (16:22):
that, what's that?
Dennis (16:23):
Why do you call him?
Chris (16:24):
Exceptional customer service.
Dennis (16:25):
Customer service.
That's what it comes down to,because he shows up.
Chris (16:28):
And he shows up.
Dennis (16:29):
Ed Martin.
Chris (16:30):
That's a long drive, wow, littleton to Bretton Woods.
You know, yeah, it's a littlebit of a drive.
Yeah, yeah, for him to do it.
There's actually one set, sohe's a great guy.
Yeah, we really appreciate it.
My wife handles all that, butit's a full-time job
Dennis (16:49):
After marketing.
In my opinion, setting up thework, that initial email, that
initial phone call, that initialcontact, that's your one
opportunity to make a firstimpression right there.
So I work with my office staff.
We had a little five-minutemeeting this morning.
Probably two mornings a weekI'll call all the office staff
in because I see or hear or Inotice a little detail, just the
(17:10):
tiniest little thing.
And today I brought them all inbecause I was doing an audit of
all the not a legitimate audit,but an audit of all the
scheduling from right now,december, which yesterday,
december 4th to the end of themonth, and I just found little
inconsistencies in the schedule.
And I do this about once ortwice a week.
I bring the staff in.
(17:31):
I say, hey, here's what I'mseeing, here's what showed up,
let's take a look at this.
And we have a quick five-minutemeeting and that's it.
But really what it comes down tois everyone in the office has
to answer the phone properly or,if we're just swamped, return
that phone call that we couldn'tget two minutes ago, that went
to voicemail.
(17:52):
Make sure everybody'swell-informed.
This is what we do, how we doit, where and when we do it.
Assessing the customer's needand then treating them fairly.
That's the name of the game.
And then treating them fairly.
That's the name of the game.
I look at it as we're problemsolvers.
We're not salespeople.
I'm not picking the phone upand calling you and trying to
(18:12):
cold call you.
We're problem solvers.
So when that phone rings, let'ssay it's me that answers the
phone.
I got to listen.
Does this person want toschedule a routine once a year
gutter cleaning?
Or does this person need aquote on new gutters?
Or is this person in panic modebecause it just rained heavily
(18:34):
and their basement flooded?
So each one of those they havea need I want to say each one of
those needs quality.
A little bit of a problem.
And what can I do?
Well, the guy that needs a quote, I want to get him.
If he wants a quote for newgutters, I want to get him on
the schedule in the next two tothree days.
(18:55):
I don't want him to wait a week.
So we get somebody out thereeither tomorrow or the next day
or, at the very latest latest,the day after that.
The person that's a repeatcustomer.
They don't have really aproblem.
They just want to scheduletheir fall gutter cleaning and
they're usually calling inAugust to set it up for November
.
But then you get the personwho's panicking because we don't
(19:17):
know him or her.
Maybe we haven't cleaned theirgutters ever, but it just rained
really heavy and their basementflooded.
We got to get to them real fast.
We're not scheduling them forthree months out.
She has a problem, so we aregoing to assess the need, give
her a rough price because wehaven't seen it, and then we're
going to have somebody there inless than 48 hours.
Chris (19:40):
You'll have a customer forever, fix that.
So yeah, customer service.
Dennis (19:43):
That's problem.
Yeah, customer service, that'swhat it comes down to.
Chris (19:47):
So let's get back to just answering the phone.
You pick up the phone.
Communication is huge.
At some point you have to pickup the phone, answer the phone
call, Train your office staff.
Dennis (19:58):
You want to be prompt, efficient, knowledgeable,
Present solutions.
In my opinion, Presentingsolutions One of the things we
do.
We have a good variety in myoffice.
I've installed a few miles ofgutters in my life.
I've also done a few thousandroofs in my life.
(20:19):
If there's a technical questionabout gutters or leaking or why
is water getting in the basement, a lot of times my office staff
she'll walk it over to me andsay, hey, can you handle this
one?
It's a technical question.
It's good if we have somebodylike myself or Andy or Chuck,
you know, in the office that cananswer that question.
There's other times thatsomeone will call and they'll
(20:42):
have a question that I couldprobably figure it out.
But I know that Lauren or Mollyor somebody in the office spoke
to this person two days ago.
Let me transfer you over toMolly.
You talk to her two days ago,she'll handle it and then I
don't have to go through thebackstory again, and so I like
to have a variety of people inthe.
In the end, it's all abouthandling the customer's problem,
(21:08):
taking care of them, so that inthat three or four minute phone
call you've got them on theschedule to complete the
solution to what they're goingthrough.
Chris (21:17):
Being here at the Gutter Monkeys I've kind of learned
your office staff sort of howthey work and kind of work
together, coordinate together.
Brian, I went through yourwebsite today and I went through
your online thing together.
Brian, I went through yourwebsite today and I went through
your online thing.
I was really impressed with ityour whole ability to select
your different services andschedule and do the whole thing,
which is pretty interesting.
And I kind of went around tolook at some other competitors I
(21:39):
guess your competitors in thearea and you don't see that at
all.
So that seems like a realinnovation on your part on your
website.
How does that work for you?
It?
Brian (21:47):
works very well on most times there's a little hiccup in
overbooking and double booking,but that's easy enough to fix
when you get to them right away.
Talk to the client right awayand schedule up more time that
we can get there, more time thatwe can get there.
Yeah, so it's been veryinteresting.
(22:10):
You don't have to sell much.
They overbuy almost every time.
You know they pick theeverything package and I hope
this doesn't go out to anyprospective clients.
I hope it does.
I hope it does because it'sgreat.
There's roads of sales.
It's a great service.
I love it does.
I hope it does because it'sgreat.
Chris (22:27):
It's a great service.
I love it.
I mean for carpet cleaning.
You know, having a place up inNew Hampshire, I mean it would
be a great way for us toschedule it, because we have to
be there at a certain time.
Brian (22:38):
You know, we can't you know, because we'll be up there
for a certain period of time.
Chris (22:41):
So for our market, you know, for me as a customer that
would be a really great to have,and we're finding a lot of
repeat clients are now justdoing that.
Yeah, now they're familiar withit, so they're comfortable with
it.
Dennis (22:55):
Brian, what do you view the function of your website?
What is the function of yourwebsite in your company?
Kind of a weird question, butwhat is it?
Brian (23:04):
Yeah, I think it's to inform of our presence in our
services because, like mostcleaning companies, we have
multiple services and there's alot of confusion, especially
about rugs.
But anyways, to answer thequestion, I think it's to inform
of our presence, our servicesand of our products that they
(23:29):
can get from us.
Chris (23:31):
Yeah, I was impressed, actually, with one in particular
.
It was grout cleaning, so youclean grout, which is another
problem we have up in NewHampshire.
I keep going back to NewHampshire but if I hadn't been
on your online service, I wouldhave no idea that you would have
had that service.
I wouldn't have ever thought toorder it from you.
Brian (23:49):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that is
one service that is big onlinebooking with us.
Dennis (23:59):
So your site is also designed to inform?
Yes, cool, because, chris, youmentioned one thing about our
website on the simplicity of itor something to that.
Would you just mention?
Chris (24:12):
Yeah, it's simplicity.
It's got a lot of facts andthings like that, but you don't
really do scheduling of guttersor anything through it, Right?
So it tells you all theservices that you have and
things like that and whereyou're located and your area and
stuff like that, and a littlebit about your history, your
history.
But you don't, because yourtarget market isn't a web person
, a person you'll typically findon the web and look for
(24:32):
services.
You know you don't need tobolster that piece of your.
You know that piece of yourmarketing.
Dennis (24:36):
Way back in the beginning 10 years ago was the
beginning of the gutter monkeyswe identified our website
primarily to do one thing andthat was to validate our
marketing.
It wasn't a marketing tool.
Our marketing tool is our radiofootprint.
We put a lot of money everymonth into our radio footprint,
(24:57):
but the job of the website wasto validate that marketing,
Because our target market theyreally just my target market is,
you know, 45 to 85 years oldmen and women homeowners.
Right, I'm not going to saymost of the contacts are women,
it's not, it's about 50-50.
(25:19):
It might lead a little towardthe women's side of it, but
men's schedule, women's schedule, but the main thing is the age
bracket.
Most of my customers arebetween the ages of 50 and 80.
Right, and they're of thegeneration that probably doesn't
want to do a lot of onlinescheduling and work like that.
(25:40):
So initially we designed ourwebsite to bolster, to validate
our radio footprint, and indoing so we take a little bit of
criticism here and there.
But you have to have a website.
Today You've got to have someform of a web presence and our
website.
While it's very simple and wedon't have e-commerce on there,
(26:03):
we don't have a lot of the bellsand whistles.
We feel it does the job,Whereas Brian has a different,
he's got a different demographicand he's got to cater to them.
That's interesting, Interestingcomparison.
All right, Scheduling, that'sthe key and everyone's different
.
I won't get into the details ofit.
We have a good office staff anda good program that you know
(26:25):
and we have a really really good, solid team in the field that
we can.
We have the capacity for abroad schedule.
We handle all the towns on CapeCod, all the towns on the South
Shore, so my office staff isreally well connected to the
team in the field.
A couple of things aboutscheduling is to schedule it
(26:46):
when the customer wants it andthen we call the day before to
confirm.
So, Chris, if you call and youschedule a gutter cleaning for,
you know, July 5th, well we'regoing to call you one or two
days ahead and confirm thatwe're going to be there at two
o'clock and people do like that.
(27:08):
Again, that's justcommunication.
Communication is huge.
Brian (27:13):
Yeah with us, whether you book online or schedule with me
on the phone, as soon as you'rescheduled, you'll get a text
and an email of the day and timethat we're going to be there.
And then, like I think it's aday before you'll get a hey,
we're coming.
Can you leave a parking spaceclose to the door?
(27:35):
We're coming through and youknow, here's some helpful hints
to help us, help you.
And yeah, and then, of course,after you get the hey, how'd you
like everything and all that?
Chris (27:47):
Yeah, not to knock other gutter companies, but I did have
one where I'm living inWorcester and they showed up and
they needed to have the waterturned on, but they didn't tell
us we didn't have the waterturned on for them, so we missed
our appointment, which kind ofwas frustrating.
So it's nice that you tell themwhat you need.
You know they need a parkingspace.
Make sure you know.
If I had a place in a tightspot.
Dennis (28:06):
Yeah, that's something that's interesting.
Chris (28:07):
That's an interesting thing.
Brian (28:08):
Yeah, because it's frustrating for us when we,
before all the notifications,we'd get there and it'd be three
cars in the way and it's like,well, we never told them to move
the car.
There you go yeah, so we tookcare of 99% of that.
Dennis (28:24):
Hey Brian, is it common that you have a customer that
you will never speak to likefrom start to finish, where they
go online and they schedule itand then you confirm it through
a text, through an email, thenthey get confirmed the day
before you show up, you do thework and then, when they're done
, you email them an invoice orsomething?
(28:46):
Is it possible that you cantake a job from start to finish
like that without ever verballycommunicating with a customer?
Has that ever happened?
Brian (28:56):
I think it has, it's not common.
Well, that was my next question.
Yeah, go it's not common, but Ithink it has.
Like hey, the door you know thedeal tucks back hey, the door
is open, go do what you got todo and see you later.
And then there has been timesit is not common, especially a
lot of people still working fromhome, but yeah it has happened.
Dennis (29:22):
It happens, it's not rare, but you can't run your
business like that Right.
Brian (29:27):
Exactly right.
Dennis (29:28):
Okay, because I do know somebody in the gutter cleaning
business who's trying to do that.
He's trying to have notvirtually literally no
communication, no verbalcommunication with a customer at
all, ever, and it isn't working.
His reviews are horrible, Ithink.
Chris (29:47):
I know who you're talking about.
Dennis (29:50):
I don't see how it could work.
Chris (29:51):
He did my house originally and I think I know
who you're talking aboutHorrible, just terrible.
Terrible.
Dennis (29:57):
And he's always hitting me up.
It's an interesting story.
But again, we were having lunchVice President over there and
myself not too long ago.
We have a friendly relationship.
But yeah, this is he's ayounger guy, he's probably
mid-30s and, my gosh, there's nocustomer service.
Customer service just takes abig backseat.
(30:19):
They're trying to streamlineand it just doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
Brian (30:26):
I can't even imagine it, I just, it just blows my mind.
I lived through it.
I actually used work.
I can't even imagine it, itjust blows my mind.
Chris (30:30):
I lived through it.
Brian (30:30):
I actually used them.
Chris (30:32):
I actually lived through it.
I could do a whole otherpodcast on that one interaction
with that company.
Dennis (30:38):
Brian, you arrive on a job, Boom, talk about on-site
customer service.
You're going into people'shouses, right?
I'm not.
Brian (30:47):
Right, I'm not Right.
Well, you know, from enteringthe door and going through the
areas that the customer wouldlike cleaned and talking it over
with the client, customer,client.
And so first thing we do, webring in corner guards which
will protect the corners of thedoors, and any corners, from
(31:07):
pulling the hose.
Dennis (31:08):
Yeah, right, From dragging the hose through any
corners.
From pulling the hose, yeahRight.
Brian (31:11):
From dragging the hose through From the hoses, yeah,
and then we pre-vacuum.
Dennis (31:16):
Nice.
Brian (31:17):
And then we do the preconditioning of the carpet
and the cleaning of the hotwater extraction.
Sometimes we do a dryer typecleaning.
If the customer would like itdry in like an hour, we have a
method to do that as well.
But 90 of it would be the hotwater extraction and we just do
(31:37):
what the customer is expectingof us and hopefully a little
more in the areas that they wantdone.
And if there's wood floors, wehave mats that we roll out, so
the hoses go on the mats.
You know protecting their woodfloors.
We have mats that we roll out,so the hoses go on the mats you
know protecting their woodfloors as well.
Dennis (31:54):
So you're being respectful of the customer's
premises.
Brian (31:58):
Yeah, it's a crazy new idea, but we're trying to.
It seems to work pretty well,so so far.
Dennis (32:06):
Brian, you quote over the phone.
If I don't know you, I'mcalling you up and I say look, I
want my living room, diningroom, hallway and three bedrooms
, the full treatment.
How do you quote that over thephone?
Is it square footage, is it bythe room?
Brian (32:20):
Yeah, it's.
You know, mostly everything'sby the square foot with us.
I try to get approximate roomsizes with us.
I try to get approximate roomsizes, I mean.
And if it's a bigger house I'lljust say, look, I can just come
out and we'll go overeverything that we're going to
do for you and I'll give you anestimate right then and there.
(32:41):
But if it's just a small area,a couple of small rooms, I'll
give them a good guess andexplain to them.
We'll measure it and then it iswhat it is.
But I'm sure I'm pretty close90% of the time of what the
price is Sure within 5% or 10%.
Dennis (32:54):
Right, yeah, okay.
Chris (32:56):
And I know, dennis, you've got maybe a little easier
You're looking at the outsideof the house, you're using
Google Earth and things likethat to actually figure out
there's several tools that weuse.
Dennis (33:06):
We use Google Earth, google Maps.
I can use town records to get alayout of your house.
Sometimes Google Maps doesn'tdo a street view.
I got an aerial view.
So if we're measuring guttersfor cleaning, virtually 100% of
the time we can give you a quote.
(33:26):
There's some other tools thatwe can use, like Zillow and
other things.
If that house has been listedor sold any time in the last 10
years, we're going to get frontback side photos.
We can put a really accurateverbal number to you over the
phone and then we explain youknow, this is I've measured you
(33:47):
at 120 linear feet.
If it's 126 linear feet it'llbe a little bit more.
If the actual measurement is114 linear feet it'll be a
little bit less.
But we're going to be within 5%to 10% and that's good 99% of
the time, right.
Chris (34:02):
So they'll get a quote right on the phone.
Right on the phone.
Dennis (34:04):
Yeah, it's nice, the key is we've solved their problem.
They're calling me and if it'smy repeat customer, it doesn't
matter.
We've already done their housethree times.
I could be on the phone for 30seconds.
I'll say hey, chris, good totalk to you again.
Listen, I got all yourinformation.
Have you changed emailaddresses or phone number?
(34:24):
You say no.
Okay, I'm going to schedule youfor X.
We'll call you the day beforeand we get off the phone.
I just go copy and paste rightoff of the back end of our
system and put their informationin.
But if it's a new customer, youtake the extra three, four
minutes.
You measure their house withthe various cyber tools that we
have and you give them a prettyaccurate, if not dead on,
(34:47):
measurement.
So that gives us an advantagethat maybe a lot of it Like.
I can't measure gutter installslike that.
There's too many variables.
I need to see what you have forfascia board.
There's just too many variables.
But if we do 6,000 guttercleanings a year, I can't be
running around measuring 6,000houses for gutter cleaning.
(35:10):
My whole office staff can betrained to do this with the
online tools, so it reallystreamlines our process.
Nice, and again, the other thingis the customer that calls
that's concerned within three tofour minutes.
We've given them a price thatthey're happy with.
We've told them about ourservices.
They're happy with that.
We've told them about ourservices, they're happy with
(35:30):
that.
And we got them on the schedulefor next Tuesday.
We just took that off of theirplate.
They can now go back toworrying about the grandkids'
birthday party next week orsomething like that.
So that's the key is take thisoff their plate as fast as you
can.
Brian (35:47):
Nice, right, and then they can call us to get their
carpets clean for the birthdayparty and the raft.
Chris (35:57):
And, if you're lucky, after the birthday party.
Brian (35:59):
Yeah, absolutely, the cake is all over the floor.
Dennis (36:00):
There you go.
Brian (36:00):
The dog.
That's right.
Dennis (36:02):
Took a dump in the little floor in a panic of it.
How do you get paid, brian,what's the payment processes
that your customer uses and whatpayment options do you?
Brian (36:14):
guys offer them.
As a company, we offer prettymuch every payment system out
there.
I mean, as far as credit cards,cash checks, do you do Venmo,
venmo every now and then?
I'm not thrilled, but I'll doit if they ask.
But yeah, all the cards in andwe bill, we email an invoice
(36:38):
after and our guys love doingthat because typically there's a
screen for a tip on there andit gets used quite a bit, quite
more than I ever thought itwould, and they're doing very
well with that because they'regiving great experiences.
So it works for everybody.
Dennis (36:57):
We take cash or check at the time of service and then a
few people call in and pay witha credit card, but most
everybody again the age bracketRight.
Most of my customers are overthe age of 60.
They're fine writing a check.
Yeah, they can find theircheckbook?
Chris (37:13):
Sure, but if you're, you know Most people don't know
where a checkbook is.
They've got a bank account, butthey have no idea where that
checkbook is.
Dennis (37:19):
One of my really cool clients.
He owns a very unique businessand we'll have Tony on after the
first of the year.
We'll get him on here, but he'sgot a very interesting business
.
His target market is ladies 24to 39, and they just love him.
And there is a situation wherethe vast majority of that group
(37:40):
probably doesn't know how towrite a check.
A lot of the younger kids don'twrite checks anymore.
Brian (37:45):
That's right, they don't even have checks Right.
Dennis (37:48):
Everything is e-banking and automatic withdrawals and
the stuff that scares the hellout of me.
That's their norm.
So our buddy Tony has to caterto the 24 to 39 year old lady
market and he does, and he doesit really well.
(38:10):
Talk about Brian, worst casescenario customers pissed off.
You or your team went out thereand you did not.
You did not perform theservices.
I'm angry at you and and andI'm seething.
Brian (38:20):
What do you do?
Well, I immediately offer acomplete refund and then say
we'd still like to come out andcorrect the issue if possible.
I think it's a surprise.
I don't remember the last timethat has happened but it's a
surprise to people when you say,okay, first of all, don't worry
(38:40):
about it.
Well either, if they owe us, Isay, don't worry about paying us
.
I'll say, well, I'll issue arefund.
I have issued refunds, but fordifferent reasons.
It just backs them off rightaway.
They cool off.
It's disarming actually.
Chris (38:58):
Right.
Brian (38:58):
That's what I was.
It's disarming.
That's what I was thinking of.
Chris (39:00):
Disarming.
Brian (39:01):
Thank you, chris, I've had it happen to me quite a bit,
so it's quite disarming.
That's because I don't likeunhappy customers.
Chris (39:13):
We had an experience up with our cleaner.
Actually, we had a wine stainor something like that on the
floor.
They came in, got rid of it.
Like a day later it kind ofcame back and we didn't
understand that.
That's pretty typical rightAfter the drying process.
Sometimes the stain comes backup, called them up, said, oh,
what happened?
They're like, oh, no problem,that's what happens, we'll come
(39:33):
back out.
They came back out in like acouple of hours, had it taken
care of and we were likecompletely like well, again what
I consider extraordinarycustomer care, you know, came
right back no discussion, tookcare of it.
Yeah, really impressed.
It's called wicking, is itwicking.
Dennis (39:47):
Yeah, one of the things I think we just hit on I was
going to go there, but wealready went there is turning a
negative into a positive takingsomething that didn't go well
and turning it into an asset.
When you do that, you oftentimesmake a lifelong customer.
We had one a few years ago.
(40:08):
I was on the job.
We were installing gutters.
I had helped out one of mycrews I don't know if we were
shorthanded a man or the day wasjust so full of large gutter
installs that I jumped on withthat crew.
Because I will do that, I'lljump on with whatever crew needs
an extra pair of hands.
That day we did an awesome joband when the snow melted on the
(40:32):
back deck and the areas, theyfound little scraps of aluminum
and they were very upset.
But that can happen.
I mean, we clean as we go, butif there's a lot of snow, when
the snow melts little thingsthat you'd normally take off
with a leaf blower or you pickit up and throw it in the trash.
You know it got hidden in thesnow and she was really upset
(40:52):
and we did an awesome job.
I remember how happy she was.
And here we are.
You know, four weeks later thesnow melts and she finds this.
I went out like the next day orsomething, and all I had to do
was sweep with the broom andtake out the leaf blower, clean
things up, pick up a few littlethings, and she was thrilled she
(41:13):
was, but but she was very, veryupset when she called and I
would think nothing of justgoing back out there and taking
care of it.
You know, when we have a personthat has a complaint about, you
know, say, a gutter cleaning,it's maybe $240.
You know, it's not a $6,000install, $240 gutter cleaning.
(41:34):
This didn't happen.
You said this.
You didn't do that.
First thing I do is I would sayI'm going to send a crew out
tomorrow ASAP and we're going totake care of this.
Can you be there?
When we get there, as you said,brian and Chris he said it they
feel disarmed, like, oh my gosh, they're actually going to
honor their work.
That's nine out of 10.
(41:55):
Yeah, we just send somebody out, take care of it.
And, um, and honestly, if, ifwe're just so busy, we can't get
there tomorrow, I'll just putit on my schedule, I'll just go
out tomorrow and we'll fix it.
And but sometimes you do getthe person that just is looking
for free.
Yeah, right, right, you do getthem.
(42:16):
Yeah, and you know what I'llsay to them too.
What can I do to take care ofyou.
Obviously, a, b and C didn'twork.
Well, I want a refund.
Ok, you'll get a refund.
Yeah, I'll have it out to youwithin three to five days and I
just send them their money backand make the customer happy.
Chris (42:34):
There's a good story about I think it was Nordstrom's
.
Guy came into Nordstrom's a fewyears back with a set of tires.
I think it was.
An elderly gentleman came inwith a set of tires, wanted his
money back, didn't like thetires and Nordstrom's was
telling him we don't sell tires.
He wouldn't let it go.
Wouldn't let it go, kept upwith it, kept up with it.
Eventually they gave him hismoney back and uh, and of course
(42:55):
they used it as a plus for them.
But yeah, it was an interestingstory with the far end of
customers always right, Sometires rolling into Nordstrom's
with a set of snow tires, butyeah.
Dennis (43:09):
I think the final step toward customer service is the
job is done, the customer ishappy, the company your
company's been paid.
And what do you do then?
What do you do then, brian?
I'm on your monthly mailinglist every month because we're a
customer at home and also hereat our main office.
(43:31):
We get one at home of yourmonthly mailing.
It's really cool.
Have you ever seen it, chris?
Chris (43:37):
No, I haven't seen it.
Dennis (43:38):
Really cool.
I have the current issue rightout there.
Talk about that, Brian.
Brian (43:43):
Yeah, we do a monthly newsletter.
People love it.
It's cool, it really is.
And we have a monthly contestto win a $25 Amazon card and I
get tons of calls for it.
People don't even care aboutthe Amazon card.
And I get tons of calls frompeople like they don't even care
about the Amazon card, theycare about winning.
It's like, oh, you don't haveto worry.
(44:06):
I said, well, anyways, but it'sfun.
I definitely know when thenewsletter hits, because I'll
get like 20 calls in about 10minutes and I have no idea.
I hate to break this, I don'twrite this.
So I have no idea what theanswer is.
I just oh, I know what you'resaying.
Yeah, I don't write thenewsletter, but so I know when
(44:32):
it's delivered, and that's abeautiful thing, it's really
cool.
People love it.
People tell us all the time howmuch they enjoy reading it.
And how do I find the time towrite it?
Honestly, I don't know, but Ijust love to do it.
Chris (44:52):
Do you introduce new products and things like that,
new services on that mailer andthings like that?
Is that how you use it?
Brian (45:00):
new services on that, on that um mailer and things like
that.
Is that how you use it?
Yeah, um, it's mostlyinformative about what's going
on that month.
Like you know, like in juneit's d-days, usually d-day story
in there.
Of course, this month will bechristmas and yes, we are.
We have one one, an insert,with what our monthly special is
and something on the back ofthe insert about either Rugpad
(45:24):
or Thailand Grout to continue toDo you do email communication?
Ongoing email yes, we do Afterthe day of service.
Of course they'll get hey, howwas the service?
Was it great?
I hope it was anyways.
So we do the day after.
(45:45):
We do a three month reminderbecause we leave a spot, a
bottle, a free spot, a bottlecase.
I need to get any spots right.
They can just use our cleanerto take them up, to maintain it
and like, in three, three monthswe'll say if you need a refill,
just give us a call.
We'll give you a refill and asix-month one saying the same
thing, and then a nine-month.
(46:06):
Do you do that via email?
Yeah?
that's the email thing that ispretty much all we do with email
.
I don't think people read a lotof emails they're getting today
.
I mean, they don't read our daybefore email half the time you
know about getting ready and itsays I got you yeah.
Dennis (46:24):
Yeah, a lot of times business emails fall into spam.
Brian (46:29):
Yeah.
Dennis (46:31):
We do hear about that, but again, we still, you know,
we do a two times a year emailblast.
So we do one in usually likeearly, early october for the
fall uh gutter cleaning seasonand we do another one in like
mid to late march for the springgutter cleaning season, and
other than that we don't reallydo anything else as far as
(46:53):
customer retention, other thanwe keep the same level of radio
footprint out there on the samestation where you heard us the
first time, so to speak.
I view my radio footprint inthree categories.
The number one reason that weadvertise is to make that phone
(47:16):
ring with new customers.
The number two reason weadvertise the way we do is to
continually remind our existingcustomers, basically to not
forget about us and not forgetabout our services.
And the third one it's kind ofinteresting and I really do
believe there's a lot ofvalidity here is to let any
potential competitor in my fieldknow that we are here and we
(47:40):
spend a lot of money marketingand we really take great pride
in owning this territory and wewant to keep that territory,
work hard to keep that territoryfor ourselves.
Chris (47:54):
That's interesting because a lot of your
competitors aren't necessarilyreally gutter guys.
They're like landscaping guysand roofing guys and stuff like
that.
It's kind of a discouragementfor them not to bother in the
gutter industry when they seeyou're out there Well you got to
remember too.
Dennis (48:06):
You're talking about gutter cleaning.
Okay, we're in two industriesgutter installs and gutter
cleaning and we're 50-50,basically, I know almost all my
competitors in the guttercleaning world.
Some of them I'm friends with.
I have two or three of mycompetitors that they're my
buddies.
They've been over the house, wehave lunch together.
They're good folks and I likethem and I respect them.
(48:33):
Gutter cleaning though it's sucha low level trade that most
people who view themselves as askilled tradesman don't want to
stoop that low.
I've got guys I've probably got10 to 12 of my, I would say I
have 10 of my co-workers in thefield who used to be
(48:53):
self-employed or who used to runcrews for other companies that
are now running a crew here andit's not beneath their dignity.
Wow.
And that's our competitiveadvantages.
We have very highly skilledguys that are willing to do this
.
You know, seemingly low-leveltask of cleaning gutters.
And, yeah, we do have somecompetitors in the landscape
(49:17):
space.
They don't do what we do, theyjust take a blower and blow the
crap out of the gutter.
You know, we check every hangerto make sure it's tight.
We clean, we flush and we do alot of extra things.
But the marketing is threefold.
One of them is, you know, getnew customers, retention of old
customers and to basically leteverybody customers, potential
(49:39):
competitors, everybody else thatthis is a market and a
territory that we take veryseriously and we service these
people, we service these homes.
We take great pride in this andwe don't want you to be our
competitor.
We really want to own thisterritory.
So that's the number three,kind of like being a little bit
(49:59):
of a bully, if you will Like.
This is my neighborhood and youcan't hang out here.
Chris (50:03):
Yeah, you're marking your territory, which is a great,
actually a great term to use, Iguess, when we have a rug
cleaning guy in the house, right?
Brian (50:11):
Absolutely.
I like that.
Chris (50:13):
Yeah, actually I had a joke about that.
We were talking about, you know, cleaning around the dog bowl.
Especially you have a new spotremover out, right?
Brian (50:22):
Right, your own version of it.
Yeah, it's a deodorizer andspot remover for pet accidents.
It's a great product.
It's safe on almost all fabricsand, so far, people are loving
it.
Dennis (50:38):
You gave one to me and I thank you for that.
I haven't used it yet, but it'sa good-looking product.
The label looks good, it reallylooks.
It's awesome.
Chris (50:46):
It's a nice add-on.
Again.
It's adding to your service.
You know, keep adding to it andonce you get the foot in the
door there, you Right, right,and you spend all that money on
marketing.
You might as well get your footin the door there.
Brian (50:59):
Exactly.
Yeah, we'll see how that goes.
I mean, for our clients it'sgoing to be great and you know,
we'll see where we can expandthat.
As far as seeing some vets oreven dog sitting places that
they're popping up all over theplace, yeah, Sure, they're
popping up all over the place.
Chris (51:19):
Yeah, sure, my wife the other day asked me if I had seen
the dog bowl and I told her Ididn't know.
Dennis (51:27):
he did Very good.
Brian (51:29):
Okay.
Dennis (51:30):
All right, you were talking about spot remover.
Chris (51:34):
I thought you were talking about a dog named Spot.
Dennis (51:35):
You're going to kick him out of the house, or something.
Chris (51:37):
Doing the research for this, I came across that yeah,
oh, that's a dad joke spot.
You're going to kick him out ofthe house or something.
Dennis (51:41):
Doing the research for this, I came across that that's
a dad joke.
You're going to wrap up on thatone, Chris.
Chris (51:48):
Yeah, I think we had it.
I think that's the way we'regoing to go.
Dennis (51:52):
Brian, you've been our first guest.
We've done a lot of fun things,you and me, over the years.
Thank you for joining us.
Brian (51:58):
Thanks for having me.
This is a blast, absolutely.
Chris (52:01):
Yeah, I'll give you your business card too, because
Worcester's not too far fromwhere you are.
Brian (52:06):
No, yeah, it's funny.
We were discussing that, Ithink, yesterday, john and I
about that area Again.
Chris (52:17):
Yeah, another service I didn't know you did.
You did hardwood floors.
We have hardwood floors at home.
We don't have that many carpetsanymore.
We clean them.
Brian (52:25):
We don't refinish.
We did and that's not a lot offun, so we don't.
Dennis (52:35):
That's different tools, it's a different skill set.
Yeah, I got you.
Chris (52:39):
Well, it was great talking with everybody tonight.
We'll be back next week with anew episode, but yeah, thanks,
brian.
Dennis (52:46):
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me Enjoyed it.
No monkeys were harmed in themaking of this podcast.
All right.
Chris (52:52):
See you next time.
Thank you for tuning in toMonkey Business Radio.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please make sure to subscribe,
like and follow us wherever youget your podcasts.
It really helps us reach moreaspiring entrepreneurs like you,
and if you've got a question ortopic you'd like us to cover,
leave a comment or reach out tous on social media.
(53:13):
We'd love to hear your thoughtsand keep the conversation going
.
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We'll see you next time.
This podcast is produced byAmerican Gutter Monkeys LLC.
Build real wealth throughbusiness ownership.
For details, visit us atAmericanGutterMonkeyscom.
Every once in a while someone comes along, shocks the
establishment with a newinnovation and a tired industry
From the movie Moneyball.
Here's how Boston Red Sox ownerJohn Henry put it.
Dennis (00:12):
Really, what it's threatening is their livelihoods
, their jobs.
It's threatening the way theydo things and every time that
happens whether it's thegovernment, a way of doing
business, or whatever the peoplewho are holding the reins they
have their hands on the switch.
They go batshit crazy.
Hello.
Chris (00:28):
I'm Chris Collins, your host.
In this podcast.
We dive into stories ofinnovation, resilience and what
it takes to shake up an industry.
Joining me is my co-host andresident small business expert,
dennis Siggins, or, as he'sknown on the Cape and Islands,
bobby Downspout.
Dennis, along with his collegeroommate, andy Brennan, founded
the Cape Cod Gutter Monkeys andtransformed the humble task of
(00:48):
gutter cleaning into a thriving,multi-million dollar business
that redefined the game.
Together, we'll uncover thestrategies, lessons and
inspirations behind building andgrowing a successful business.
So, whether you're here forbusiness insights, inspiration
or just a great story, you're inthe right place.
Grab a cup of coffee, sit back,relax and welcome to Monkey
(01:10):
Business Radio.
Hello everyone, welcome toEpisode 4 of Monkey Business
Radio.
Monkeying around with customerservice.
I'm your host, chris Collins,and, as always, I'm joined with
Dennis Siggins of the Cape CodGuider Monkeys.
Hello Dennis, how you doing,chris?
How are you today?
(01:30):
Not too bad, not too bad Good.
We've got a special guesttonight.
We're really excited here todaybecause we have Brian Lovejoy,
owner of Lovejoy Carpet Care.
Over 38 years of experience incarpet, rug, upholstery cleaning
, brian's built a business knownfor exceptional customer
service and he's here tonight toshare some insights on how
(01:52):
service drives customer loyaltyand business growth.
So welcome to the show, brian.
Brian (01:57):
Thanks, chris, great to be here.
Chris (01:58):
Yeah, it's good to see you Made it through a little bit
of snow this morning and yeah,we're excited to have our first
guest first guest on the episode.
Dennis (02:05):
Yep absolutely.
Chris (02:07):
So why don't we start off with?
I'm curious how you guys endedup on a podcast in Mashpee
Massachusetts.
After all these years, after allthese years, what the?
hell happened.
Dennis (02:17):
I don't know.
Brian, where do we start?
Well, the beginning would be inMarlborough, right it?
was
Brian (02:22):
Yep would be in.
Marlborough right,
Dennis (02:23):
it was yeah, you guys both at one time had a cleaning
business.
Chris (02:27):
You owned a cleaning business, didn't you, dennis
Babs?
Dennis (02:29):
and I probably were married but just about to be
married maybe and Brian answeredan ad and he came to work for
our company.
We had just started carpet andupholstery cleaning business
back in the early 1980s andBrian was our first employee.
Chris (02:45):
Oh, cool, cool.
So after all these years,you're still in the business of
carpet cleaning.
Dennis (02:49):
We actually still get.
Along.
Actually yeah, how long have Iknown you, god, since what?
Freshman year in high school?
Chris (02:55):
Freshman year in high school, yeah.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Been a few years.
Yeah, so longer than I care tocare to think about some nights.
So, brian, I really we hit itoff.
Dennis (03:08):
I took a detour in the mid 80s, got out of the business
and my wife and I got into adifferent business at the time
and Brian just stayed the coursein the carpet, upholstery and
flooring business.
He could probably give you moreinsight on that business.
Brian (03:27):
He could probably give you more insight on that.
Yeah, I just um figuredstarting my own little company
to to get by and try to grow bethe best course.
Chris (03:32):
And 38, 40 years later, here we are you want to share a
little bit about uh, about yourcompany no, no, no, just kidding
how big that's funny.
I'm sorry, that's good so yeah,how big are you guys?
Brian (03:51):
We're a small company.
It's my son and I and ourexcellent employee Paul.
We run two trucks.
We have a rug cleaning shop,which is a lot of fun just to do
orientals and a lot of woolrugs and a few silk rugs too,
which are always an adventure.
But yeah, so that's where we'reat now.
(04:13):
We're growing a little bit andlooking at a third truck and
maybe an employee or two thisyear and keep moving on.
Chris (04:23):
Great, great, all right.
Well, let's dive in totonight's topic customer service
.
So I'd love to hear what youthink about customer service,
how you kind of define it insideyour own business.
You know you've got differentbusinesses now gutters and
carpet cleaning but from ourconversations it sounds like
you're both sort of on the samepage when it comes to what it
takes to deliver, you know,really truly great customer
service.
It comes to what it takes todeliver really truly great
(04:44):
customer service.
Dennis (04:45):
Chris, customer service has a lot of meanings for
different businesses anddifferent people.
I've dabbled in the contractingbusiness, the food service
business, the exercise business.
I've owned companies over theyears in many different
businesses.
But in my world right now weare in the gutter cleaning,
gutter repairs, maintenance andgutter installation home service
(05:09):
business.
So I guess tonight's topicreally would be customer service
in the home service industry.
I think you would probablyqualify yourself as the same
Brian, right, Exactly, we're notreally contractors.
Rarely, if ever, do me and or mycompany ever do a job that
takes more than a couple hours.
(05:30):
Gutter cleaning maybe take anhour or two.
Gutter installs can takeanywhere from an hour to maybe
six or eight hours.
But we're not contractors perse.
I look at us as a homeservice-based company per se.
I look at us as a homeservice-based company.
Another lifelong friend of mine, somebody I've known since my
(05:53):
teenage years, Andy Brennan.
He and I started the GutterMonkeys 10 years ago, 10 and a
half years ago, and at the verybeginning we kind of agreed on
this premise If we answer thephones, show up on time, do a
good job, charge a fair price,then that's it.
We'll be rock stars, Right, andit's worked out well, and
that's what customer service is.
Chris (06:12):
Yeah.
Dennis (06:13):
You know, it's the support that you offer your
customers through a businessrelationship.
Chris (06:18):
That's customer service 73% of customers say that
exceptional customer serviceearns their loyalty.
Not regular, you know, ordinarycustomer service.
Brian (06:30):
Yeah, it's relative, though I think you know
exceptional service is differentto everybody.
I think, like Dennis was saying, unfortunately today, doing
what you say you're going to do,showing up on time, then a lot
of people think that'sexceptional.
I mean, we show up forestimates and people think
that's exceptional.
Dennis (06:49):
Exceptional service is not our goal, it's our standard
way of doing business, and ifyou can establish that with your
office staff, your field teamand everybody in between, then
exceptional service becomes thenorm and it doesn't seem
exceptional anymore.
Under-promise, over-deliver.
Brian (07:11):
Exactly.
Dennis (07:11):
So, Chris, like I say back in the beginning, what Andy
and I decided and this is in2014, we were going to use
today's technology and, at thesame time, a lot of old school
strategies.
And, at the same time, a lot ofold school strategies like
picking up the phone, you know,returning calls as soon as you
possibly can Not tomorrow, notthe next day.
(07:33):
I mean, we get thanked everyday for picking up the phone,
having a conversation andscheduling an appointment.
People just thank us for that.
Brian (07:50):
And we haven't even got there yet and done the work.
Dennis (07:51):
So unusual, I guess people now have decided that
that's extraordinary customerservice.
It's a different model, becausea lot of the younger kids have
grown up with cell phones andtechnology, and none of us here
did so.
If you're 35 years old andyou're a skilled business owner,
you may be able to do a lot ofthe stuff that we do in the
office.
You can do that on your cellphone, but there are some pieces
to the puzzle that can't bereplaced via a cell phone, and
(08:15):
so that's where this sort of oldschool model has a leg up is.
You know, I would call it theold school office model, where
there's always somebody at thephone during normal business
hours and addressing the needsof the person who's calling the
customer.
Chris (08:36):
This seems to be a reoccurring theme.
This old school is innovationnowadays.
You know, because people havegotten away from it, that it's
being viewed as innovative.
You know, having a having alandline is an innovative idea.
Dennis (08:48):
It's different.
Sometimes the young kidsthey'll kid me about.
You know my lack of skill inthe technology world, but I work
with young business owners allthe time and one of the
comparisons I make is that, yeah, I'm a little hesitant to go
all in on all of today'stechnology, but you, the
(09:10):
30-year-old upstart businessowner, is scared to death of a
landline and a desktop computer.
And there's the gap.
There's the gap right there.
Hey, chris, before we go, letme just.
I was reading an article theother day and it was in Zendesk,
and this popped up and becausewe were prepping for a customer
(09:31):
service podcast, I'll throw thisout Bad customer service.
Here is what a Zendesk authorcited as the top five things
that are identified as badcustomer service A lack of
empathy, just like we don't care.
Customers can't reach you,meaning they can't get in touch
(09:52):
with you.
Chris (09:53):
Yeah, that drives me crazy.
Dennis (09:55):
Poor automated phone systems, long wait times and
being transferred too many times.
Now, this is just one articlethat I happen to read, but if
you look at those, you know fourout of the five have to do with
communication.
Right, exactly, communication'shuge yeah.
Chris (10:17):
Yeah, there's a Zappos story.
I don't know if you heard it.
Zappos always wanted theircustomers to be very well
received when they're beingtalked to on the phone, so they
encourage their employees totalk to them.
Take as much time as you need.
They have one instance herethat they talk about.
It's a really interesting storywhere they spent 10 hours on
the phone with a customer.
So they just sat there becausethe customer just was
(10:40):
interacting constant, constantly.
The employee had been told youknow, you need to interact with
the customer and stay with them,stay with them.
So it was a 10-hour phone callthat they had with the guys at
Zappos.
Brian (10:50):
Very cool.
I like it.
Well, yeah, I've had anexperience like that and a
customer called me about a stockrug she had and she had all
these issues with it Nothingthat I could fix.
Fix.
Her problem was with thecompany, the manufacturer, and
she wanted me to come out take alook at it and want to know how
(11:12):
much I would charge.
And I just told I just want tosee it now, but it sounds very
interesting, so there'd be nocharge.
So you know, I ran up there andit it was quite educational.
It just came to mind.
But yeah, it's just, people arefunny and listening is
(11:33):
apparently an art these days andit's really not that difficult.
Chris (11:38):
She probably appreciated you being there and talking
about the rug.
Brian (11:42):
So I sold some rug protector while I was there.
That was all good.
There you go all right.
Chris (11:49):
So it's more than answering phones.
I guess customer service iskind of a bridge between your
marketing turning a first-timecaller into a loyal repeat
customer marketing is where itall begins yeah, we did a whole
show last week, dennis on onmarketing was it last week?
Yeah, yeah, you know it's ablur now, huh, already Time
flies.
Five shows in and you'realready oh.
Dennis (12:11):
Marketing is expensive only if it doesn't make the
phone ring number one.
But when you begin a marketingprogram, you know you choose
your target market.
You choose your target market.
(12:39):
If my target market is 60 to80-year-old ladies, I have to
gear my customer service towardthen pass it through to you and
then you, the owner of thecompany, get back to them
through an email or a text or insome fashion like that.
60 to 80 year old women wantyou to pick up the phone, they
want to have a chat with you,they want you to problem solve.
(13:01):
You know I have a problem withmy gutters, I have a problem
with my rugs, and your officestaff member will then address
those needs and come up with asolution.
And here's a solution I'm goingto send somebody out and we are
going to do A, b, c and D andthe number one goal there is to
(13:22):
ease the customer's mind aboutwhat he or she is going through.
That's your target market.
If you're in the 50 or 60 to 80year old range, if your target
market is 24 to 32 year oldwomen, that may not be the best
method.
So when it comes to marketing,identifying your target market
(13:42):
and attracting the people fromthat target market comes first,
and then you have to design yourcustomer service process
accordingly.
Make sense.
Chris (13:52):
Yeah, sounds good.
Yeah, I saw an interestingquote the other day.
It was about Ritz-Carlton howthey did their customer service
and their tagline for years andyears was always ladies and
gentlemen, serviced by ladiesand gentlemen.
So they knew exactly who theywere looking for and they knew
exactly who in their customerminds, who was answering the
(14:13):
phone All right, brian.
Dennis (14:15):
What's your target market Age?
I mean Everything.
Okay, do ladies do most of thescheduling Age brackets?
What are we looking at?
Brian (14:25):
Yeah, we're looking at, our target market is probably 35
to 55-year-old women, marriedhomeowners, couple, kids, dogs.
Dennis (14:38):
Couple of dogs.
Couple of dogs, there you go.
Brian (14:42):
The more dogs everybody wins, the more dogs the better.
Yeah, that's right, and so,yeah, that's it.
Then you throw in an incomelevel there as well, of course,
the demographics of kids anddogs.
That's generally a higherincome level, as it is.
Sure yeah.
Chris (15:02):
How about the rental market now?
You've got a lot of Airbnbs andstuff that need to be cleaned a
lot.
I know we have one up in NewHampshire and we have a carpet
cleaner guy on speed dial upthere.
Brian (15:12):
No, we don't, Well, not in our service area.
Chris (15:18):
That's probably true.
It's probably very service areaspecific.
Brian (15:21):
There is, I think, one lady who calls us and I don't
know if it's Airbnb or just likeshe gets a lot of bad tenants.
Dennis (15:30):
I don't know, what it?
Brian (15:31):
is because they're out quickly.
But so, yeah, not so muchAirbnb.
That would be interesting, butno, basically, we do have some
apartment owners who always callus with the turnover.
We do have some apartmentowners who always call us with
the turnover, but mainlyhomeowners, condo owners and
pets Everybody get a pet, go geta dog.
Dennis (15:57):
Who does?
Chris (15:57):
your carpets up north, it's Ed Martin.
Dennis (15:58):
You know him well.
Chris (15:59):
He just sold a business.
Dennis (16:00):
I knew his dad.
Oh wow, Know Ed yeah, Sure HiEd if you're listening.
Great.
Chris (16:05):
Yeah, I know I've known ed martin for years he's on
special and I tell you theexceptional customer service I
mean he's a good egg.
Yeah, he is airbnbs, you knowyou only have.
You know your turnaround timeis very small.
Yeah, and we call him on a onspeed dial, say, hey, you know
wine glass, you know.
Can you help us, and why?
Dennis (16:21):
is that?
What's that?
Why do you call him and why is?
Chris (16:22):
that, what's that?
Dennis (16:23):
Why do you call him?
Chris (16:24):
Exceptional customer service.
Dennis (16:25):
Customer service.
That's what it comes down to,because he shows up.
Chris (16:28):
And he shows up.
Dennis (16:29):
Ed Martin.
Chris (16:30):
That's a long drive, wow, littleton to Bretton Woods.
You know, yeah, it's a littlebit of a drive.
Yeah, yeah, for him to do it.
There's actually one set, sohe's a great guy.
Yeah, we really appreciate it.
My wife handles all that, butit's a full-time job
Dennis (16:49):
After marketing.
In my opinion, setting up thework, that initial email, that
initial phone call, that initialcontact, that's your one
opportunity to make a firstimpression right there.
So I work with my office staff.
We had a little five-minutemeeting this morning.
Probably two mornings a weekI'll call all the office staff
in because I see or hear or Inotice a little detail, just the
(17:10):
tiniest little thing.
And today I brought them all inbecause I was doing an audit of
all the not a legitimate audit,but an audit of all the
scheduling from right now,december, which yesterday,
december 4th to the end of themonth, and I just found little
inconsistencies in the schedule.
And I do this about once ortwice a week.
I bring the staff in.
(17:31):
I say, hey, here's what I'mseeing, here's what showed up,
let's take a look at this.
And we have a quick five-minutemeeting and that's it.
But really what it comes down tois everyone in the office has
to answer the phone properly or,if we're just swamped, return
that phone call that we couldn'tget two minutes ago, that went
to voicemail.
(17:52):
Make sure everybody'swell-informed.
This is what we do, how we doit, where and when we do it.
Assessing the customer's needand then treating them fairly.
That's the name of the game.
And then treating them fairly.
That's the name of the game.
I look at it as we're problemsolvers.
We're not salespeople.
I'm not picking the phone upand calling you and trying to
(18:12):
cold call you.
We're problem solvers.
So when that phone rings, let'ssay it's me that answers the
phone.
I got to listen.
Does this person want toschedule a routine once a year
gutter cleaning?
Or does this person need aquote on new gutters?
Or is this person in panic modebecause it just rained heavily
(18:34):
and their basement flooded?
So each one of those they havea need I want to say each one of
those needs quality.
A little bit of a problem.
And what can I do?
Well, the guy that needs a quote, I want to get him.
If he wants a quote for newgutters, I want to get him on
the schedule in the next two tothree days.
(18:55):
I don't want him to wait a week.
So we get somebody out thereeither tomorrow or the next day
or, at the very latest latest,the day after that.
The person that's a repeatcustomer.
They don't have really aproblem.
They just want to scheduletheir fall gutter cleaning and
they're usually calling inAugust to set it up for November
.
But then you get the personwho's panicking because we don't
(19:17):
know him or her.
Maybe we haven't cleaned theirgutters ever, but it just rained
really heavy and their basementflooded.
We got to get to them real fast.
We're not scheduling them forthree months out.
She has a problem, so we aregoing to assess the need, give
her a rough price because wehaven't seen it, and then we're
going to have somebody there inless than 48 hours.
Chris (19:40):
You'll have a customer forever, fix that.
So yeah, customer service.
Dennis (19:43):
That's problem.
Yeah, customer service, that'swhat it comes down to.
Chris (19:47):
So let's get back to just answering the phone.
You pick up the phone.
Communication is huge.
At some point you have to pickup the phone, answer the phone
call, Train your office staff.
Dennis (19:58):
You want to be prompt, efficient, knowledgeable,
Present solutions.
In my opinion, Presentingsolutions One of the things we
do.
We have a good variety in myoffice.
I've installed a few miles ofgutters in my life.
I've also done a few thousandroofs in my life.
(20:19):
If there's a technical questionabout gutters or leaking or why
is water getting in the basement, a lot of times my office staff
she'll walk it over to me andsay, hey, can you handle this
one?
It's a technical question.
It's good if we have somebodylike myself or Andy or Chuck,
you know, in the office that cananswer that question.
There's other times thatsomeone will call and they'll
(20:42):
have a question that I couldprobably figure it out.
But I know that Lauren or Mollyor somebody in the office spoke
to this person two days ago.
Let me transfer you over toMolly.
You talk to her two days ago,she'll handle it and then I
don't have to go through thebackstory again, and so I like
to have a variety of people inthe.
In the end, it's all abouthandling the customer's problem,
(21:08):
taking care of them, so that inthat three or four minute phone
call you've got them on theschedule to complete the
solution to what they're goingthrough.
Chris (21:17):
Being here at the Gutter Monkeys I've kind of learned
your office staff sort of howthey work and kind of work
together, coordinate together.
Brian, I went through yourwebsite today and I went through
your online thing together.
Brian, I went through yourwebsite today and I went through
your online thing.
I was really impressed with ityour whole ability to select
your different services andschedule and do the whole thing,
which is pretty interesting.
And I kind of went around tolook at some other competitors I
(21:39):
guess your competitors in thearea and you don't see that at
all.
So that seems like a realinnovation on your part on your
website.
How does that work for you?
It?
Brian (21:47):
works very well on most times there's a little hiccup in
overbooking and double booking,but that's easy enough to fix
when you get to them right away.
Talk to the client right awayand schedule up more time that
we can get there, more time thatwe can get there.
Yeah, so it's been veryinteresting.
(22:10):
You don't have to sell much.
They overbuy almost every time.
You know they pick theeverything package and I hope
this doesn't go out to anyprospective clients.
I hope it does.
I hope it does because it'sgreat.
There's roads of sales.
It's a great service.
I love it does.
I hope it does because it'sgreat.
Chris (22:27):
It's a great service.
I love it.
I mean for carpet cleaning.
You know, having a place up inNew Hampshire, I mean it would
be a great way for us toschedule it, because we have to
be there at a certain time.
Brian (22:38):
You know, we can't you know, because we'll be up there
for a certain period of time.
Chris (22:41):
So for our market, you know, for me as a customer that
would be a really great to have,and we're finding a lot of
repeat clients are now justdoing that.
Yeah, now they're familiar withit, so they're comfortable with
it.
Dennis (22:55):
Brian, what do you view the function of your website?
What is the function of yourwebsite in your company?
Kind of a weird question, butwhat is it?
Brian (23:04):
Yeah, I think it's to inform of our presence in our
services because, like mostcleaning companies, we have
multiple services and there's alot of confusion, especially
about rugs.
But anyways, to answer thequestion, I think it's to inform
of our presence, our servicesand of our products that they
(23:29):
can get from us.
Chris (23:31):
Yeah, I was impressed, actually, with one in particular
.
It was grout cleaning, so youclean grout, which is another
problem we have up in NewHampshire.
I keep going back to NewHampshire but if I hadn't been
on your online service, I wouldhave no idea that you would have
had that service.
I wouldn't have ever thought toorder it from you.
Brian (23:49):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that is
one service that is big onlinebooking with us.
Dennis (23:59):
So your site is also designed to inform?
Yes, cool, because, chris, youmentioned one thing about our
website on the simplicity of itor something to that.
Would you just mention?
Chris (24:12):
Yeah, it's simplicity.
It's got a lot of facts andthings like that, but you don't
really do scheduling of guttersor anything through it, Right?
So it tells you all theservices that you have and
things like that and whereyou're located and your area and
stuff like that, and a littlebit about your history, your
history.
But you don't, because yourtarget market isn't a web person
, a person you'll typically findon the web and look for
(24:32):
services.
You know you don't need tobolster that piece of your.
You know that piece of yourmarketing.
Dennis (24:36):
Way back in the beginning 10 years ago was the
beginning of the gutter monkeyswe identified our website
primarily to do one thing andthat was to validate our
marketing.
It wasn't a marketing tool.
Our marketing tool is our radiofootprint.
We put a lot of money everymonth into our radio footprint,
(24:57):
but the job of the website wasto validate that marketing,
Because our target market theyreally just my target market is,
you know, 45 to 85 years oldmen and women homeowners.
Right, I'm not going to saymost of the contacts are women,
it's not, it's about 50-50.
(25:19):
It might lead a little towardthe women's side of it, but
men's schedule, women's schedule, but the main thing is the age
bracket.
Most of my customers arebetween the ages of 50 and 80.
Right, and they're of thegeneration that probably doesn't
want to do a lot of onlinescheduling and work like that.
(25:40):
So initially we designed ourwebsite to bolster, to validate
our radio footprint, and indoing so we take a little bit of
criticism here and there.
But you have to have a website.
Today You've got to have someform of a web presence and our
website.
While it's very simple and wedon't have e-commerce on there,
(26:03):
we don't have a lot of the bellsand whistles.
We feel it does the job,Whereas Brian has a different,
he's got a different demographicand he's got to cater to them.
That's interesting, Interestingcomparison.
All right, Scheduling, that'sthe key and everyone's different
.
I won't get into the details ofit.
We have a good office staff anda good program that you know
(26:25):
and we have a really really good, solid team in the field that
we can.
We have the capacity for abroad schedule.
We handle all the towns on CapeCod, all the towns on the South
Shore, so my office staff isreally well connected to the
team in the field.
A couple of things aboutscheduling is to schedule it
(26:46):
when the customer wants it andthen we call the day before to
confirm.
So, Chris, if you call and youschedule a gutter cleaning for,
you know, July 5th, well we'regoing to call you one or two
days ahead and confirm thatwe're going to be there at two
o'clock and people do like that.
(27:08):
Again, that's justcommunication.
Communication is huge.
Brian (27:13):
Yeah with us, whether you book online or schedule with me
on the phone, as soon as you'rescheduled, you'll get a text
and an email of the day and timethat we're going to be there.
And then, like I think it's aday before you'll get a hey,
we're coming.
Can you leave a parking spaceclose to the door?
(27:35):
We're coming through and youknow, here's some helpful hints
to help us, help you.
And yeah, and then, of course,after you get the hey, how'd you
like everything and all that?
Chris (27:47):
Yeah, not to knock other gutter companies, but I did have
one where I'm living inWorcester and they showed up and
they needed to have the waterturned on, but they didn't tell
us we didn't have the waterturned on for them, so we missed
our appointment, which kind ofwas frustrating.
So it's nice that you tell themwhat you need.
You know they need a parkingspace.
Make sure you know.
If I had a place in a tightspot.
Dennis (28:06):
Yeah, that's something that's interesting.
Chris (28:07):
That's an interesting thing.
Brian (28:08):
Yeah, because it's frustrating for us when we,
before all the notifications,we'd get there and it'd be three
cars in the way and it's like,well, we never told them to move
the car.
There you go yeah, so we tookcare of 99% of that.
Dennis (28:24):
Hey Brian, is it common that you have a customer that
you will never speak to likefrom start to finish, where they
go online and they schedule itand then you confirm it through
a text, through an email, thenthey get confirmed the day
before you show up, you do thework and then, when they're done
, you email them an invoice orsomething?
(28:46):
Is it possible that you cantake a job from start to finish
like that without ever verballycommunicating with a customer?
Has that ever happened?
Brian (28:56):
I think it has, it's not common.
Well, that was my next question.
Yeah, go it's not common, but Ithink it has.
Like hey, the door you know thedeal tucks back hey, the door
is open, go do what you got todo and see you later.
And then there has been timesit is not common, especially a
lot of people still working fromhome, but yeah it has happened.
Dennis (29:22):
It happens, it's not rare, but you can't run your
business like that Right.
Brian (29:27):
Exactly right.
Dennis (29:28):
Okay, because I do know somebody in the gutter cleaning
business who's trying to do that.
He's trying to have notvirtually literally no
communication, no verbalcommunication with a customer at
all, ever, and it isn't working.
His reviews are horrible, Ithink.
Chris (29:47):
I know who you're talking about.
Dennis (29:50):
I don't see how it could work.
Chris (29:51):
He did my house originally and I think I know
who you're talking aboutHorrible, just terrible.
Terrible.
Dennis (29:57):
And he's always hitting me up.
It's an interesting story.
But again, we were having lunchVice President over there and
myself not too long ago.
We have a friendly relationship.
But yeah, this is he's ayounger guy, he's probably
mid-30s and, my gosh, there's nocustomer service.
Customer service just takes abig backseat.
(30:19):
They're trying to streamlineand it just doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
Brian (30:26):
I can't even imagine it, I just, it just blows my mind.
I lived through it.
I actually used work.
I can't even imagine it, itjust blows my mind.
Chris (30:30):
I lived through it.
Brian (30:30):
I actually used them.
Chris (30:32):
I actually lived through it.
I could do a whole otherpodcast on that one interaction
with that company.
Dennis (30:38):
Brian, you arrive on a job, Boom, talk about on-site
customer service.
You're going into people'shouses, right?
I'm not.
Brian (30:47):
Right, I'm not Right.
Well, you know, from enteringthe door and going through the
areas that the customer wouldlike cleaned and talking it over
with the client, customer,client.
And so first thing we do, webring in corner guards which
will protect the corners of thedoors, and any corners, from
(31:07):
pulling the hose.
Dennis (31:08):
Yeah, right, From dragging the hose through any
corners.
From pulling the hose, yeahRight.
Brian (31:11):
From dragging the hose through From the hoses, yeah,
and then we pre-vacuum.
Dennis (31:16):
Nice.
Brian (31:17):
And then we do the preconditioning of the carpet
and the cleaning of the hotwater extraction.
Sometimes we do a dryer typecleaning.
If the customer would like itdry in like an hour, we have a
method to do that as well.
But 90 of it would be the hotwater extraction and we just do
(31:37):
what the customer is expectingof us and hopefully a little
more in the areas that they wantdone.
And if there's wood floors, wehave mats that we roll out, so
the hoses go on the mats.
You know protecting their woodfloors.
We have mats that we roll out,so the hoses go on the mats you
know protecting their woodfloors as well.
Dennis (31:54):
So you're being respectful of the customer's
premises.
Brian (31:58):
Yeah, it's a crazy new idea, but we're trying to.
It seems to work pretty well,so so far.
Dennis (32:06):
Brian, you quote over the phone.
If I don't know you, I'mcalling you up and I say look, I
want my living room, diningroom, hallway and three bedrooms
, the full treatment.
How do you quote that over thephone?
Is it square footage, is it bythe room?
Brian (32:20):
Yeah, it's.
You know, mostly everything'sby the square foot with us.
I try to get approximate roomsizes with us.
I try to get approximate roomsizes, I mean.
And if it's a bigger house I'lljust say, look, I can just come
out and we'll go overeverything that we're going to
do for you and I'll give you anestimate right then and there.
(32:41):
But if it's just a small area,a couple of small rooms, I'll
give them a good guess andexplain to them.
We'll measure it and then it iswhat it is.
But I'm sure I'm pretty close90% of the time of what the
price is Sure within 5% or 10%.
Dennis (32:54):
Right, yeah, okay.
Chris (32:56):
And I know, dennis, you've got maybe a little easier
You're looking at the outsideof the house, you're using
Google Earth and things likethat to actually figure out
there's several tools that weuse.
Dennis (33:06):
We use Google Earth, google Maps.
I can use town records to get alayout of your house.
Sometimes Google Maps doesn'tdo a street view.
I got an aerial view.
So if we're measuring guttersfor cleaning, virtually 100% of
the time we can give you a quote.
(33:26):
There's some other tools thatwe can use, like Zillow and
other things.
If that house has been listedor sold any time in the last 10
years, we're going to get frontback side photos.
We can put a really accurateverbal number to you over the
phone and then we explain youknow, this is I've measured you
(33:47):
at 120 linear feet.
If it's 126 linear feet it'llbe a little bit more.
If the actual measurement is114 linear feet it'll be a
little bit less.
But we're going to be within 5%to 10% and that's good 99% of
the time, right.
Chris (34:02):
So they'll get a quote right on the phone.
Right on the phone.
Dennis (34:04):
Yeah, it's nice, the key is we've solved their problem.
They're calling me and if it'smy repeat customer, it doesn't
matter.
We've already done their housethree times.
I could be on the phone for 30seconds.
I'll say hey, chris, good totalk to you again.
Listen, I got all yourinformation.
Have you changed emailaddresses or phone number?
(34:24):
You say no.
Okay, I'm going to schedule youfor X.
We'll call you the day beforeand we get off the phone.
I just go copy and paste rightoff of the back end of our
system and put their informationin.
But if it's a new customer, youtake the extra three, four
minutes.
You measure their house withthe various cyber tools that we
have and you give them a prettyaccurate, if not dead on,
(34:47):
measurement.
So that gives us an advantagethat maybe a lot of it Like.
I can't measure gutter installslike that.
There's too many variables.
I need to see what you have forfascia board.
There's just too many variables.
But if we do 6,000 guttercleanings a year, I can't be
running around measuring 6,000houses for gutter cleaning.
(35:10):
My whole office staff can betrained to do this with the
online tools, so it reallystreamlines our process.
Nice, and again, the other thingis the customer that calls
that's concerned within three tofour minutes.
We've given them a price thatthey're happy with.
We've told them about ourservices.
They're happy with that.
We've told them about ourservices, they're happy with
(35:30):
that.
And we got them on the schedulefor next Tuesday.
We just took that off of theirplate.
They can now go back toworrying about the grandkids'
birthday party next week orsomething like that.
So that's the key is take thisoff their plate as fast as you
can.
Brian (35:47):
Nice, right, and then they can call us to get their
carpets clean for the birthdayparty and the raft.
Chris (35:57):
And, if you're lucky, after the birthday party.
Brian (35:59):
Yeah, absolutely, the cake is all over the floor.
Dennis (36:00):
There you go.
Brian (36:00):
The dog.
That's right.
Dennis (36:02):
Took a dump in the little floor in a panic of it.
How do you get paid, brian,what's the payment processes
that your customer uses and whatpayment options do you?
Brian (36:14):
guys offer them.
As a company, we offer prettymuch every payment system out
there.
I mean, as far as credit cards,cash checks, do you do Venmo,
venmo every now and then?
I'm not thrilled, but I'll doit if they ask.
But yeah, all the cards in andwe bill, we email an invoice
(36:38):
after and our guys love doingthat because typically there's a
screen for a tip on there andit gets used quite a bit, quite
more than I ever thought itwould, and they're doing very
well with that because they'regiving great experiences.
So it works for everybody.
Dennis (36:57):
We take cash or check at the time of service and then a
few people call in and pay witha credit card, but most
everybody again the age bracketRight.
Most of my customers are overthe age of 60.
They're fine writing a check.
Yeah, they can find theircheckbook?
Chris (37:13):
Sure, but if you're, you know Most people don't know
where a checkbook is.
They've got a bank account, butthey have no idea where that
checkbook is.
Dennis (37:19):
One of my really cool clients.
He owns a very unique businessand we'll have Tony on after the
first of the year.
We'll get him on here, but he'sgot a very interesting business
.
His target market is ladies 24to 39, and they just love him.
And there is a situation wherethe vast majority of that group
(37:40):
probably doesn't know how towrite a check.
A lot of the younger kids don'twrite checks anymore.
Brian (37:45):
That's right, they don't even have checks Right.
Dennis (37:48):
Everything is e-banking and automatic withdrawals and
the stuff that scares the hellout of me.
That's their norm.
So our buddy Tony has to caterto the 24 to 39 year old lady
market and he does, and he doesit really well.
(38:10):
Talk about Brian, worst casescenario customers pissed off.
You or your team went out thereand you did not.
You did not perform theservices.
I'm angry at you and and andI'm seething.
Brian (38:20):
What do you do?
Well, I immediately offer acomplete refund and then say
we'd still like to come out andcorrect the issue if possible.
I think it's a surprise.
I don't remember the last timethat has happened but it's a
surprise to people when you say,okay, first of all, don't worry
(38:40):
about it.
Well either, if they owe us, Isay, don't worry about paying us
.
I'll say, well, I'll issue arefund.
I have issued refunds, but fordifferent reasons.
It just backs them off rightaway.
They cool off.
It's disarming actually.
Chris (38:58):
Right.
Brian (38:58):
That's what I was.
It's disarming.
That's what I was thinking of.
Chris (39:00):
Disarming.
Brian (39:01):
Thank you, chris, I've had it happen to me quite a bit,
so it's quite disarming.
That's because I don't likeunhappy customers.
Chris (39:13):
We had an experience up with our cleaner.
Actually, we had a wine stainor something like that on the
floor.
They came in, got rid of it.
Like a day later it kind ofcame back and we didn't
understand that.
That's pretty typical rightAfter the drying process.
Sometimes the stain comes backup, called them up, said, oh,
what happened?
They're like, oh, no problem,that's what happens, we'll come
(39:33):
back out.
They came back out in like acouple of hours, had it taken
care of and we were likecompletely like well, again what
I consider extraordinarycustomer care, you know, came
right back no discussion, tookcare of it.
Yeah, really impressed.
It's called wicking, is itwicking.
Dennis (39:47):
Yeah, one of the things I think we just hit on I was
going to go there, but wealready went there is turning a
negative into a positive takingsomething that didn't go well
and turning it into an asset.
When you do that, you oftentimesmake a lifelong customer.
We had one a few years ago.
(40:08):
I was on the job.
We were installing gutters.
I had helped out one of mycrews I don't know if we were
shorthanded a man or the day wasjust so full of large gutter
installs that I jumped on withthat crew.
Because I will do that, I'lljump on with whatever crew needs
an extra pair of hands.
That day we did an awesome joband when the snow melted on the
(40:32):
back deck and the areas, theyfound little scraps of aluminum
and they were very upset.
But that can happen.
I mean, we clean as we go, butif there's a lot of snow, when
the snow melts little thingsthat you'd normally take off
with a leaf blower or you pickit up and throw it in the trash.
You know it got hidden in thesnow and she was really upset
(40:52):
and we did an awesome job.
I remember how happy she was.
And here we are.
You know, four weeks later thesnow melts and she finds this.
I went out like the next day orsomething, and all I had to do
was sweep with the broom andtake out the leaf blower, clean
things up, pick up a few littlethings, and she was thrilled she
(41:13):
was, but but she was very, veryupset when she called and I
would think nothing of justgoing back out there and taking
care of it.
You know, when we have a personthat has a complaint about, you
know, say, a gutter cleaning,it's maybe $240.
You know, it's not a $6,000install, $240 gutter cleaning.
(41:34):
This didn't happen.
You said this.
You didn't do that.
First thing I do is I would sayI'm going to send a crew out
tomorrow ASAP and we're going totake care of this.
Can you be there?
When we get there, as you said,brian and Chris he said it they
feel disarmed, like, oh my gosh, they're actually going to
honor their work.
That's nine out of 10.
(41:55):
Yeah, we just send somebody out, take care of it.
And, um, and honestly, if, ifwe're just so busy, we can't get
there tomorrow, I'll just putit on my schedule, I'll just go
out tomorrow and we'll fix it.
And but sometimes you do getthe person that just is looking
for free.
Yeah, right, right, you do getthem.
(42:16):
Yeah, and you know what I'llsay to them too.
What can I do to take care ofyou.
Obviously, a, b and C didn'twork.
Well, I want a refund.
Ok, you'll get a refund.
Yeah, I'll have it out to youwithin three to five days and I
just send them their money backand make the customer happy.
Chris (42:34):
There's a good story about I think it was Nordstrom's
.
Guy came into Nordstrom's a fewyears back with a set of tires.
I think it was.
An elderly gentleman came inwith a set of tires, wanted his
money back, didn't like thetires and Nordstrom's was
telling him we don't sell tires.
He wouldn't let it go.
Wouldn't let it go, kept upwith it, kept up with it.
Eventually they gave him hismoney back and uh, and of course
(42:55):
they used it as a plus for them.
But yeah, it was an interestingstory with the far end of
customers always right, Sometires rolling into Nordstrom's
with a set of snow tires, butyeah.
Dennis (43:09):
I think the final step toward customer service is the
job is done, the customer ishappy, the company your
company's been paid.
And what do you do then?
What do you do then, brian?
I'm on your monthly mailinglist every month because we're a
customer at home and also hereat our main office.
(43:31):
We get one at home of yourmonthly mailing.
It's really cool.
Have you ever seen it, chris?
Chris (43:37):
No, I haven't seen it.
Dennis (43:38):
Really cool.
I have the current issue rightout there.
Talk about that, Brian.
Brian (43:43):
Yeah, we do a monthly newsletter.
People love it.
It's cool, it really is.
And we have a monthly contestto win a $25 Amazon card and I
get tons of calls for it.
People don't even care aboutthe Amazon card.
And I get tons of calls frompeople like they don't even care
about the Amazon card, theycare about winning.
It's like, oh, you don't haveto worry.
(44:06):
I said, well, anyways, but it'sfun.
I definitely know when thenewsletter hits, because I'll
get like 20 calls in about 10minutes and I have no idea.
I hate to break this, I don'twrite this.
So I have no idea what theanswer is.
I just oh, I know what you'resaying.
Yeah, I don't write thenewsletter, but so I know when
(44:32):
it's delivered, and that's abeautiful thing, it's really
cool.
People love it.
People tell us all the time howmuch they enjoy reading it.
And how do I find the time towrite it?
Honestly, I don't know, but Ijust love to do it.
Chris (44:52):
Do you introduce new products and things like that,
new services on that mailer andthings like that?
Is that how you use it?
Brian (45:00):
new services on that, on that um mailer and things like
that.
Is that how you use it?
Yeah, um, it's mostlyinformative about what's going
on that month.
Like you know, like in juneit's d-days, usually d-day story
in there.
Of course, this month will bechristmas and yes, we are.
We have one one, an insert,with what our monthly special is
and something on the back ofthe insert about either Rugpad
(45:24):
or Thailand Grout to continue toDo you do email communication?
Ongoing email yes, we do Afterthe day of service.
Of course they'll get hey, howwas the service?
Was it great?
I hope it was anyways.
So we do the day after.
(45:45):
We do a three month reminderbecause we leave a spot, a
bottle, a free spot, a bottlecase.
I need to get any spots right.
They can just use our cleanerto take them up, to maintain it
and like, in three, three monthswe'll say if you need a refill,
just give us a call.
We'll give you a refill and asix-month one saying the same
thing, and then a nine-month.
(46:06):
Do you do that via email?
Yeah?
that's the email thing that ispretty much all we do with email
.
I don't think people read a lotof emails they're getting today
.
I mean, they don't read our daybefore email half the time you
know about getting ready and itsays I got you yeah.
Dennis (46:24):
Yeah, a lot of times business emails fall into spam.
Brian (46:29):
Yeah.
Dennis (46:31):
We do hear about that, but again, we still, you know,
we do a two times a year emailblast.
So we do one in usually likeearly, early october for the
fall uh gutter cleaning seasonand we do another one in like
mid to late march for the springgutter cleaning season, and
other than that we don't reallydo anything else as far as
(46:53):
customer retention, other thanwe keep the same level of radio
footprint out there on the samestation where you heard us the
first time, so to speak.
I view my radio footprint inthree categories.
The number one reason that weadvertise is to make that phone
(47:16):
ring with new customers.
The number two reason weadvertise the way we do is to
continually remind our existingcustomers, basically to not
forget about us and not forgetabout our services.
And the third one it's kind ofinteresting and I really do
believe there's a lot ofvalidity here is to let any
potential competitor in my fieldknow that we are here and we
(47:40):
spend a lot of money marketingand we really take great pride
in owning this territory and wewant to keep that territory,
work hard to keep that territoryfor ourselves.
Chris (47:54):
That's interesting because a lot of your
competitors aren't necessarilyreally gutter guys.
They're like landscaping guysand roofing guys and stuff like
that.
It's kind of a discouragementfor them not to bother in the
gutter industry when they seeyou're out there Well you got to
remember too.
Dennis (48:06):
You're talking about gutter cleaning.
Okay, we're in two industriesgutter installs and gutter
cleaning and we're 50-50,basically, I know almost all my
competitors in the guttercleaning world.
Some of them I'm friends with.
I have two or three of mycompetitors that they're my
buddies.
They've been over the house, wehave lunch together.
They're good folks and I likethem and I respect them.
(48:33):
Gutter cleaning though it's sucha low level trade that most
people who view themselves as askilled tradesman don't want to
stoop that low.
I've got guys I've probably got10 to 12 of my, I would say I
have 10 of my co-workers in thefield who used to be
(48:53):
self-employed or who used to runcrews for other companies that
are now running a crew here andit's not beneath their dignity.
Wow.
And that's our competitiveadvantages.
We have very highly skilledguys that are willing to do this
.
You know, seemingly low-leveltask of cleaning gutters.
And, yeah, we do have somecompetitors in the landscape
(49:17):
space.
They don't do what we do, theyjust take a blower and blow the
crap out of the gutter.
You know, we check every hangerto make sure it's tight.
We clean, we flush and we do alot of extra things.
But the marketing is threefold.
One of them is, you know, getnew customers, retention of old
customers and to basically leteverybody customers, potential
(49:39):
competitors, everybody else thatthis is a market and a
territory that we take veryseriously and we service these
people, we service these homes.
We take great pride in this andwe don't want you to be our
competitor.
We really want to own thisterritory.
So that's the number three,kind of like being a little bit
(49:59):
of a bully, if you will Like.
This is my neighborhood and youcan't hang out here.
Chris (50:03):
Yeah, you're marking your territory, which is a great,
actually a great term to use, Iguess, when we have a rug
cleaning guy in the house, right?
Brian (50:11):
Absolutely.
I like that.
Chris (50:13):
Yeah, actually I had a joke about that.
We were talking about, you know, cleaning around the dog bowl.
Especially you have a new spotremover out, right?
Brian (50:22):
Right, your own version of it.
Yeah, it's a deodorizer andspot remover for pet accidents.
It's a great product.
It's safe on almost all fabricsand, so far, people are loving
it.
Dennis (50:38):
You gave one to me and I thank you for that.
I haven't used it yet, but it'sa good-looking product.
The label looks good, it reallylooks.
It's awesome.
Chris (50:46):
It's a nice add-on.
Again.
It's adding to your service.
You know, keep adding to it andonce you get the foot in the
door there, you Right, right,and you spend all that money on
marketing.
You might as well get your footin the door there.
Brian (50:59):
Exactly.
Yeah, we'll see how that goes.
I mean, for our clients it'sgoing to be great and you know,
we'll see where we can expandthat.
As far as seeing some vets oreven dog sitting places that
they're popping up all over theplace, yeah, Sure, they're
popping up all over the place.
Chris (51:19):
Yeah, sure, my wife the other day asked me if I had seen
the dog bowl and I told her Ididn't know.
Dennis (51:27):
he did Very good.
Brian (51:29):
Okay.
Dennis (51:30):
All right, you were talking about spot remover.
Chris (51:34):
I thought you were talking about a dog named Spot.
Dennis (51:35):
You're going to kick him out of the house, or something.
Chris (51:37):
Doing the research for this, I came across that yeah,
oh, that's a dad joke spot.
You're going to kick him out ofthe house or something.
Dennis (51:41):
Doing the research for this, I came across that that's
a dad joke.
You're going to wrap up on thatone, Chris.
Chris (51:48):
Yeah, I think we had it.
I think that's the way we'regoing to go.
Dennis (51:52):
Brian, you've been our first guest.
We've done a lot of fun things,you and me, over the years.
Thank you for joining us.
Brian (51:58):
Thanks for having me.
This is a blast, absolutely.
Chris (52:01):
Yeah, I'll give you your business card too, because
Worcester's not too far fromwhere you are.
Brian (52:06):
No, yeah, it's funny.
We were discussing that, Ithink, yesterday, john and I
about that area Again.
Chris (52:17):
Yeah, another service I didn't know you did.
You did hardwood floors.
We have hardwood floors at home.
We don't have that many carpetsanymore.
We clean them.
Brian (52:25):
We don't refinish.
We did and that's not a lot offun, so we don't.
Dennis (52:35):
That's different tools, it's a different skill set.
Yeah, I got you.
Chris (52:39):
Well, it was great talking with everybody tonight.
We'll be back next week with anew episode, but yeah, thanks,
brian.
Dennis (52:46):
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me Enjoyed it.
No monkeys were harmed in themaking of this podcast.
All right.
Chris (52:52):
See you next time.
Thank you for tuning in toMonkey Business Radio.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please make sure to subscribe,
like and follow us wherever youget your podcasts.
It really helps us reach moreaspiring entrepreneurs like you,
and if you've got a question ortopic you'd like us to cover,
leave a comment or reach out tous on social media.
(53:13):
We'd love to hear your thoughtsand keep the conversation going
.
Don't forget to leave us afive-star review if you found
the episode valuable, and makesure to share it with anyone who
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We'll see you next time.
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