July 7, 2025 • 32 mins
A chat that takes in post-punk gigs with @Cracked_Lime, why making decisions is hard, and French attitudes to fun. "The first time I went on stage I had an awful time... I thought I'd made a massive mistake, the artistic life was not for me, I hated every moment of it!" #otherlivesareavailable #podcast #eastlondon #musician
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
I really struggle to make decisions in life so meditation
has helped. Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. So you've really, you've really
taken this seriously? I mean, being bad at making
decisions was not the main reason why I started meditation,
but still, it really helps because it makes you more.
I mean, it's, it's quite, I mean, it's a bit plain to say
that, but it really helps you focus on on the now moment and
(00:26):
it cures a lot of things like anxiety and depression as well,
I guess. So no, focusing on the right now
really helps me to say, you knowwhat, I don't have to draft all
this anticipated plans on I'm going to regret this later if I
do not choose this or that. And just, you know, focusing on
your instinct on right now. What do I want to do?
(00:47):
Do not start thinking about what, what if I do that and this
will, you know, like all those consequences will then happen.
OK. So there's lots of what ifs
definitely naturally for you. Yeah.
And so and they immediately comebefore you when it's when it's a
decision. Yeah, it's crazy.
It's like every day my mind usually sets on the future and
(01:08):
on all this. I mean, you know, building
scenarios is my mind's specialtyon, on what's right now.
So, and I, it prevents me from focusing on, on the, the actual
moment. It also prevents me from
enjoying a lot of things. So because you're always
thinking that you can, that you know what's going to happen.
It's often it's, it's terrible. So you know, it's just trying to
(01:31):
focus more on right now. And also acknowledging that
deeply understanding that you donot know what's going to happen.
Like you, you can draft scenarios because our minds are,
are used to that, but really youcannot know.
So it's useless to just, you know, spend sometimes in in your
mind on future scenarios that you can't actually be for sure
(01:53):
they're going to happen. So for people who are listening,
who don't have a problem with decision making, I mean, some
people will, will, will know exactly what you're talking
about. Other people, it will be
unfamiliar for people who are listening.
Is this something that that's always been there since you were
a kid? You've always been someone who
immediately comes up with lots of scenarios when faced with the
decision. Yeah, I think it's, it's the
(02:14):
main fear is fearing of regretting a thing of, of
looking back at a decision you've made and thinking I
should have made it differently.And the fear of that is
something that I mean, creates anxiety from, from the the
problem of having problems making decisions.
And this problem comes with the fact that you automatically draw
(02:35):
millions of consequences on yourchoices, even if they're very
trivial Really so. Can it be seen as a positive?
I mean, you're, you're putting it as a problem, you're putting
it as a as a barrier to decisionmaking.
Is there any way of seeing it ina positive light?
Oh, yeah. I mean, if you if you do it
reasonably, which which is not to be my case, it is very, I
(02:55):
mean it, it proves that your mind is actually amazing.
You know, you can based on, on histories, on knowledge, you can
actually draft scenarios in the future from, from actual
moments. So it's quite amazing.
I don't know if, if other, if many other species on earth are
able to do that. So when you use it at work or
in, in, you know, relevant context, it's wonderful.
But if we're choosing a meal at restaurant, it's different too
(03:17):
much. I I remember meeting someone a
long time ago and, and he had a particular thing which is kind
of related, which was he always feared to the end of a party.
He always feared the end of a good time that he was happening.
And as a result, he could never enjoy himself because he was
worried about it ending. Is that kind of related to what
(03:39):
you're talking about? Exactly.
I mean that. You're you're worried like if
you make the wrong decision there will be what consequence?
I don't know, you know, like if it, if it's a simple case like a
restaurant, you think, oh, this might be the only time I go
there. And if I do not have that food
that actually my friend is having.
So I might be, I might get jealous of his food and get a
(04:00):
bit, you know, wishy washy because I, I, I should have
taken that. I mean, it's now it's trivial,
but sometimes it's, it's much more, it's much more serious.
And for a part, I totally relate.
Like you, you have, you're having a, a nice time, but you
can't help thinking about how it's going to end at some point.
And you can definitely have thistype of, you know, like mental
forecasting on everything in life because.
(04:21):
But because we are very, we really struggle on focusing on
there's only the present that isreal.
But it's so hard to really feel that because we always think of
the past or the future and it doesn't exist though, only in
our minds. And yeah.
But as you say, it informs all of our decisions.
Oh, yeah, of course, of course. No, it is important.
(04:42):
It is important, but it's, it's just putting the, you know, like
the, it's the fine line between being like a reasonable human
being that uses his brain correctly and being like totally
overwhelmed by this capacity of just anticipating everything and
being totally unable to make choices and to enjoy the moment.
(05:06):
So do you now enjoy the moment having done your meditation,
having kind of thought about it,worked at it?
No, it works. I can definitely encourage
anyone who's willing to give it a try to do it because it has
really changed my, my, my mind and my life.
Really. Yeah.
It's really, it's a very simple practice.
They're purely simple, but they're actually very hard.
(05:27):
And practicing really helps yourmind reshaping.
And you tend to have, I mean, those bad habits of overthinking
things, of being stressed or really, I mean it.
It definitely calms down this thing.
So yeah. So when do you do the
meditation? Is it like every morning?
Every evening? Is a is a reset pattern to how
(05:48):
you do it? Is it like a regular?
Thing Yeah, yeah, I try to do itevery morning.
It's easier in the in the morning before having checked my
phone or anything because. We have to make any decisions.
Definitely, you know, when you're still a bit sleepy, like
you just catch your own self andput you on on on the floor on a
question and try to do it. And there's no, what I like
about it is that there's no, there's no sense of success or
(06:09):
failure. It's just like you, you do it as
in you listen. I mean, I do it with a, with an
app. So it's like a sort of small
podcast and you just try to do it.
So it kind of prompts you, Yeah.And you follow the instructions,
Yeah. But the instructions are
basically just, you know, focus on your breath, Try not to try
to see your own train of thoughts as something that is
external to you but not your ownself.
(06:32):
And you try. And if you fail to do that, it's
fine. It's part of the exercise.
So there's no, there's no sense of failure.
It's just trying to do it and asand it's the repetition that
really allows you to see some progress in terms of feeling
less anxious or feeling less, you know.
How long does the meditation last?
Is it like 10 minutes? Is it longer?
You can do, I mean you can do 3 minutes, you can do 10.
(06:55):
I do 10 between 10 and 15. And some people do.
Hours, days even. And do you ever, and I'm, I'm
trying not to sort of be flippant, but do you ever have a
problem deciding to do the meditation?
No, because I'm very, I'm very, I'm very square on habits like I
do. I, I'm going to sound like the
worst person who's eating vegetables, organic vegetables,
(07:16):
doing meditation and doing yoga,but I am actually that person.
And every morning I, I wake up, I do yoga, I do meditation.
It's not, it's like 30 minutes in the morning, but I've been
doing that for, I don't know, five or six years.
And now that the habit is there,you know, it's just, I know it's
there and I just do it because there's no, it's a no brainer.
You know, it's just the morning stuff you do so.
(07:39):
We're sitting in a garden in East London.
It's an urban garden off of MainStreet.
There's kids playing nearby, there's people relaxing, there's
some people drinking beer nearby.
What brought you to this garden?Why are you here at this time of
day? I like to collect my veg, my
vegetables. I often come here also to, you
(08:01):
know, just relax, have a coffee.It's quite a nice place.
I live just nearby. Really.
And the vegetables that you're collecting vegetables from here
rather than a shop because? Yeah, because it's part of that
scheme that I got a subscriptionto, which allows you to just
collect a set of vegetables thatare not chosen by you.
It's just like they picked by the the schemes and they're
(08:22):
just, they're just, yeah, build them around like what is locally
available and organically grown.Are you a good cook?
I don't know that's. Very honest.
I can't cook some. I mean, I can't cook, but I
wouldn't say that I would. I wouldn't brag about my cooking
skills do. You know what?
(08:43):
I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say I
don't know because most people go yes or no, but I don't know
is actually a great answer. Can you?
Can you see how much I'm unable to make choices right?
Do you? Do you?
Do you enjoy cooking for other people?
Yeah, no, I love it. I mean, I like it.
(09:04):
I think so. My partner cooks as well.
He's a much better cook than I. See, that doesn't help when you
live with a good cook. Yeah, that's true.
I mean, you always compare yourself to, you know, but he's
very good at cooking. He's half Italian, so he cooks
like, amazing pastas, tomato sauce that, you know, like cook
for hours, literally. And I'm, I'm more on the, OK,
(09:26):
let's make something healthy quick during the weekdays.
But I'm not, I mean, I, I would have trouble spending hours in
the kitchen cooking that. Yeah, that's not my thing.
But is cooking a social thing inyour household?
Or is cooking like one person does it and the other person
does something else? Oh no.
It's a social thing. I mean, we enjoy.
I mean, it's once again, it's going to sound very cliche, but
(09:47):
we're, we're French, so we enjoyfood, You know, it's like it's
important in our culture. You just do not grab something
quickly and it eats as just, youknow, something that you have to
do to survive. Like you have.
There's a ceremonial around it, always.
Tell us about that, because as Brits and, and I'm not speaking
for everyone else, but we, I, I think generally we feel a bit
inferior and, and we, we feel that the French have a great
(10:11):
attitude towards the food, food in a way that we don't.
Well, first I want to say something like food in the Uki
mean in London, that is because this is a place I know is
amazing. Like I, I, I, we didn't want
people to know that It's not. I mean, in Paris it's great.
But for me, French people have, you know, they've been relying
on the fact that everyone says the food is amazing in France
(10:34):
and that I think I don't think we're very innovative.
You know, we just rely on on oldrecipes that are there for that
have been there for ages and that actually not really like
old meats, very meaty food. Like it's not, it's not really
fashionable or anymore, well, this is a thing.
And then I don't know. I think the main difference is
that in, in the UK, people can really see food as something
(10:56):
that is just something you do because you have to, you know,
like you have a quick bag of like nuts scripts and, you know,
some carrots and you just eat and then you go on with your
life. And French people are are
totally unable to do that. Why, Yeah, I'd love to be like
that because. Because we are, as you say,
utilitarian with our food. We grab and we go, and it's not
good for our digestion. It's not good for like a social
(11:18):
situation. But even in families, we hardly
ever sit around and have meals anymore.
Do you though, I feel like, you know, the Sunday Roach to
something a bit a bit ceremonial.
And if you have a proper dinner yet, like you would cook a lot
of food and you would, you definitely don't have, I think
that sense of having a meal thatis a social moment.
But in France, it's that it's not something you can do, It's
(11:40):
something you have to do. I like that you know what it's
like. It's the rules.
If you're French, this is a rule.
And this is a bit annoying really, because I mean party
wise, for instance, like if you want to have some drinks with
friends on Friday night here yougo out and OK, West Coast, now
you're a bit hungry. You got a bag of chips or
something and you just eat, you know?
And then you go on with your party in France, like everything
(12:01):
has to stop because we need to to find a place to eat that is
decent, you know, so you. Can.
And then there's a big discussion.
Yeah. And it's awful because
sometimes, you know, like, it's quite hard to find a night spot
to have a drink. So you have a night spot.
You don't want to leave that spot to get some food.
But for some people you really have to because you cannot just
grab something out of, you know,like a kebab or something like
(12:22):
that. I mean, you can, but most people
are very specific on food and it's not something that you can
just, you know, easily get rid of by buying nuts.
So going back to the your decision making, it sounds like
you're not alone. You come from a country where
deciding about food is very serious and it's quite
difficult, no? No, that's true.
I mean, once, once you're in in the restaurant, then people are
(12:45):
usually much more quicker than Ito figure out what they want to
eat though. But still, no, it's really
something and we, we joke about it a lot with my partner because
since we've been here, it's, it's just, it has been so much
easier, you know, regarding thisaspect of life.
And we and we were very frustrated about how our friends
would get annoyed if we do not have, you know, a, a specific
(13:06):
plan for the food during the nights.
Your French friends. Yeah, French friends and and
here once I I remember a friend telling me he's Australian and
he just said Oh no, I hate eating on a Friday night and.
Just like no food, only drink. Yeah, and I was like, man, this
is this is this is it, you know,like people get it.
(13:26):
So do you think you've become a bit more British?
Yeah. I mean, I mean, do you like the
British attitude towards drinking food or, or do you like
to hold the line and be a bit French sometimes?
No, honestly, I I really enjoy it's attitude towards like
having having fun. Like definitely it's, it's,
well, I mean, I'm going, I'm going to, you know, French
(13:47):
people are not very fun. That's a controversial
statement. There might be some French
people listening to this. No, I mean no, but lot I mean I
love France, I love I love my country for many reasons.
But really fun is not part of the definition here.
I mean it works. I.
Wonder why? I wonder why that is.
Is it? Is it?
Is it the French take themselvesseriously?
(14:08):
Yeah, as a general rule. I mean, we're talking massive
generalisations here, obviously.No, yeah, of course.
And I don't want to, you know, like be too hard on anyone, but
it's just, I mean we over intellectualise everything,
which is a good thing sometimes,but it's an awful thing in terms
of having fun. We're so self aware, like so
much, and so it's basically impossible for someone to have
(14:32):
fun without thinking about having fun being something for
people who are a bit, you know, like not very smart, like
whatever, you know. So it's a, it's a kind of like
an inbuilt sophistication, yeah.Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like it's, it's very, it's it's very present.
I mean, I think if you're, if you're British and you go to, I
(14:53):
don't know, bars or or gigs or festivals in France, you would
definitely get the sense of that.
Like people are actually trying to have fun very hard, but they
can't really make it out. You know, they can't really
because they're just so within themselves, like looking at
themselves and being like, you know.
Would, would, would, would they look down at us, Let's say the
Brits being stupid and having fun.
(15:14):
What is interesting is that if you're a Brits and you do that
in France, people would think you're very cool.
But if you're friends French andyou do it, people would think
you're you're weird. You know, like it's.
OK. So you get away with it as an
outsider. Absolutely.
And actually I think we, I mean,we fantasise a lot on British
culture and you know, like all the fantasies around it because
(15:34):
we. Yeah, what do?
The French just think of the Brits.
I mean, we think that French arevery sophisticated and they've
got great food and they're very cultured.
What do you think of us? I'm not a very representative
member of the. Thinking for your whole country?
Because I, I left, you know, andI actually.
OK, why did you leave? Let's start there.
Yeah, well, I told you the fun. To find some fun.
(15:58):
This is not fun, No. I like for many reasons, but
I've always loved the UK. I've always been attracted to
London for history. I do music as well, so it's like
big music culture obviously. You're a musician, Yeah.
Yeah, I used to be, I used to bein a band in in France and now I
moved with my partner here to wehave a duo as well.
(16:20):
And so we are just. So you're both musicians, Yeah.
Yeah, we do music together. What kind of music are we
talking? So we would describe it as
postponed, I guess, because now everything kind of is.
That sounds great. OK explain this because.
I think it's a bit experimental.I mean, it's like we have a few
(16:40):
stints drawing machines. We do guitar both of us, and
there's a lot of spoken words. Spoken words, but it's also
songs like with proper melody, yeah.
Take us into the creative process.
You're starting from scratch. You're starting a new song or a
new project. What do you start with?
(17:02):
The words? Do you start with the music?
Do the ideas come all at once? How?
How does it? How does it flow?
It really depends. I mean, we, so sometimes my
partner has, let's say the sort of the lead on a song and I
would just add ideas like add a riff, add a production idea,
stuff like that. And sometimes it's the opposite.
(17:23):
When I'm leading, let's say a song, for me it's always like
immediately. I have everything at once, like
the main melody, the the. Oh, that's interesting.
So you see the whole thing and he sees the bits.
Yeah. I mean, you kind of do it in a
different way. But when he is in in the lead,
for him it's also more like bit by bit, like it wouldn't have
(17:44):
everything at once. For me, it's it's the opposite
design. I, I cannot, I have like
absolutely no inspirations for weeks and they have like one
song that is ready to go. And then he would add some
things and he would help of course, but it's very like as a
whole for him, it's more progressive, like it's more step
by step. And it would in time wise, it's
(18:05):
a process that could take many, many weeks or months.
For me it's like 1 go like it's like nothing at all and then
just a song and that's. Kind of the opposite of what you
were saying about your decision making, because it's almost as
when it comes to music, you're afast decision maker and you're
like, yeah, bish, bash, Bosh, done.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Because it's not, it's not coming from the same place.
(18:25):
And I think music is very intuitive.
I think for me, life in general isn't.
Maybe you should see everything in music.
Yeah, well, that, that'd be great.
And then when you and your partner are making music, how do
you know when it's done? Because I always think there
must be this thing in the creative process.
(18:45):
It must be very hard to stop because you want to keep adding
things or effects. A bit like an artist.
How does an artist know where painting is completely done?
It must be a hard decision to go, OK, I'm not going to paint
any more lines and you're not going to.
I'm not going to put in any morenotes.
Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess it's a good question, especially
(19:07):
for music because as you have, you know, different version of
your song, you have like the oneyou have maybe the demo and then
you have the one you play live and the life can change
depending on, you know, sometimes if you have several
musicians, they they can change it also.
Sometimes it's just like, you know, take for the technique or
for at some moment, you know, the way you're going to
(19:27):
interpret the song is different.So it always changes somehow.
But I mean, for a more like practical answer to your
question, I think at there's a moment, you know, in in art, we
say like it's you're born. I mean, there's, there's the
birth, then there's the death and there's the resurrection
like. OK, that you I'm confused.
(19:49):
So it, it comes from, from paintings, from painting.
Usually it's like for a portrait.
I I can't remember the painter who said that, but it's, it's,
it was on, on portraiting. So you see the the piece and the
person. As for portraits, you see, it's
like being born on on your Canva.
(20:09):
So the idea. The birth of the idea.
Yeah. And then you sort of overdo it a
little bit, and so you kill it. You kill.
You're not. You lose.
You lose the feeling with the piece.
You lose it. You're lost like you've had it
too many things or not enough. And then there's a moment where
your relationship to your hard work is just gone.
And then you continue, and then you find it again, and it's.
(20:30):
OK, So you're it's not a linear process, it's a coming and going
in and focus out of focus. Do you find out with your your.
Music, I, I personally relate tothat a lot.
And I know, I mean it's not a general truth, but I mean, for
me it really makes sense. Like, so everything is done in a
very short amount of time for me, as I was saying, like maybe
(20:51):
a day, but during that day I canhave like a lot of loads of
ideas and it makes sense. And then maybe I make a pose of
like one hour and I re listen toit and I'm completely lost.
Like I feel like I can't really remember what I mean.
I can't really understand anymore what I was trying to do.
And then I keep going and at some point I know it's finished.
And I think, you know, it's finished when when you're trying
to add something, you know, it doesn't really sound good
(21:14):
anymore. I mean, it doesn't really feel
good anymore. But this is something you feel.
I guess That's yeah. And where does your music go
when you and your partner have made music?
Does it go on a record? Do you?
Do you live gig it? How?
What do you do with the music you make?
So we have like a home are. You famous No.
(21:35):
Just checking. That you're not massively famous
somewhere. No, no, no, I'm not famous.
No, we, we, we're gigging a bit in London currently and yeah,
we're trying to, I mean, we've met, we've made a demo that
we're sending to, you know, venues and promoters and we're
just trying to play live as muchas possible.
(21:56):
You're doing gig here, you're getting ready for the gig, the
nerves, the excitement. Are you someone who likes
performing? Because for some people it would
be awful to get up on stage and perform.
Yeah, the first time I, I went on stage, I had an awful time.
I, I kept thinking to myself, I'm just going to be, you know,
(22:18):
I'm just going to be an office worker forever.
I made a massive mistake. Like artistic life is not for
me. I hate this.
I hate every moment of it. And then, then it went better
now. Describe what that first gig
was. What went wrong?
Why did it feel so bad? Nothing really, but I mean, see,
the sound engineer was a bit wasa bit of a of an ask really.
(22:38):
He told me to sing louder, like during the performance and it
was like, I can't really. So there was a bit awful, but
then no, I don't know. It was, it was so, so stressed.
You know, like so like. That's what performance is.
Performance is stressful, it surely it can never be
comfortable. Yeah, No, no, it gets
(22:59):
comfortable at some point. Yeah.
Because I mean, when, when you manage to, you know, to, I don't
know what's the exact English word is for that, but it's, it's
not really stress. It's like this very specific
feeling like, like you kind of want to go on stage, but you're
also a bit, you know, you, you're fearful of it, but you
also want to do it. It's a bit like, it's a good
stress, you know what I mean? Like, and, and this is nice
(23:21):
energy, like when you go on stage, at first you're a bit
stressed, but then you relax andthen you can finally enjoy being
on stage, which is actually amazing when you like overcome
this phase of being stressed out.
And for the first gigs I couldn't overcome the phase.
But you still push through. You push through the pain.
You and you. You because you were determined
to be a live performer on a studio person.
(23:43):
Yeah, but that's interesting about music as well, is that you
have to be so many things, right?
You have to be able to create music, to record it, to be able
to produce it a little bit. Because now people expect you to
have like, you know, legitimate demos, even if they're overmade.
You have to be a good performer,which is very different from
being a good musician as a studio, you know, artist.
So yeah, I mean, I pursued it because I, I felt like, you
(24:06):
know, this is the way you show your music actually.
And, and now we're making it. I used to do music that was more
like, you know, classic rock setstuff.
And now it's more, a bit more electronic, a bit more dancing
like you actually, it's actuallyquite enjoyable to see people
like dance to your music and it's quite, it's good fun, you
know, so. Yeah, and how much does it
matter the reaction you get to your music?
(24:26):
Does it matter if other people like it or not?
Well, it's just like, you know, you do it because you can't do
otherwise. Like if people like it, it's
it's good. If people don't like it, It's
just that's the way it is, right?
I mean. Are you, are you?
I suppose what I'm getting at is, are you, are you driven to
create no matter what the resultis in, in terms of feedback.
(24:48):
It's like within you there's a creative drive.
I need to make music. Yeah, I mean, this is what I
think this is the the main thing, right?
It's just you do it because you can't do otherwise.
And then if it works in terms oflike money and success, man,
that's a bit, that's not, that'smassive.
But you know, it's just you don't choose, you know, you just
(25:08):
do it because you can't do otherwise.
And and yeah, I mean, honestly, when people like it, I'm always
a bit surprised. Like I'm very happy and like I'm
really great. That's that's great.
But yeah. My, my mom is a, she's a, she's
(25:31):
a painter and she's very spiritual woman and she, she
thinks that you're just the medium, you know, like you just
like produce art out of you justlike channel something and you
make it into art. But it's not really your own
mental process or your own or your very own life that just
(25:54):
produces it. It's just many things around you
that you just channel. Have has she always been an
inspiration to you? Have you got a good relationship
with her in terms of, you know, you're both creative, you're a
musician, she's an artist. She's sort of connect in that
way. Yeah, a lot, a lot.
She's amazing. I have a very, very cool, cool
(26:16):
relationship with my mother and it's very precious.
Yeah, she's in terms of on this.I mean, the feelings behind
being creative are sometimes a bit difficult.
And I think she can understand that a lot.
She understands that very well. And it's also a way of seeing
the world and things and feelings that is very specific.
(26:38):
And being able to relate with your own mother on that is very
is very nice. I think something that is a bit
tricky though, is that when you've seen one of your parents
being an artist, it's very hard to then allow yourself to see
yourself as one because you knowthere's.
There's interesting why. Because you feel like you, I
(27:01):
mean, you, you feel like you'll never be good enough or that, I
mean, you have a proper example of what it is to be an artist.
And it's very difficult to, to make the difference between what
is the artist and what is your mother's way of being an artist.
And you know, and, and finding your place there is quite hard.
(27:25):
Maybe coming back to sort of thing, back to the way that we
intellectualise things too much as French people might be a
little bit of beginning of an answer there.
But still, it's just, I feel like when you do not have any,
any model in terms of being an artist, you just exist as such.
But when your parents are, it creates a weird thing, I guess
(27:46):
where, where you just compare yourself to them in that
perspective, which is a bit unusual, I guess.
And yeah, it was a bit when I was younger, it took me a lot of
time to really like, see myself as someone creative because I
always felt like my mother was so much smaller than I couldn't
actually say that I was. Oh, that's interesting.
(28:06):
So, so it's almost like matchingup to your mum because she was
such a strong presence in terms of an artistic person in your
life. And, and I mean, she definitely
never wanted to create that typeof situation, but it's just
something that happens, you know?
And I mean, it's also very, I mean, it also depends on how you
see your parents in general and,and authority and stuff like
(28:28):
that. But I mean.
Our relationships with our parents change as we go through
life. What about your dad?
What how? How is he in the mix in terms of
your creative side? My dad is the practical side of
me. He's not, he's not a massive
artist. He's not very artistic, but he's
(28:50):
he, he played music when he was younger and he actually, I mean,
he actually bought me my first guitar and sort of taught me my
first song. So, you know, it's something.
So there's music there too. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, he's definitely, I mean,he's just a casual guitar
player. Like he's.
A3 chord hero. Yeah, definitely.
But he, you know, he put me to it like when I was a kid.
(29:10):
So it was, it's good. And yeah, I mean, my
relationship with my dad is muchmore.
I mean, there's we do not share that artistic feeling type of
thing. But he's he's a very good dad on
many other things in life and music.
And do they ever say to you havea second, have a second backup
(29:31):
plan? Because a musician's life is a
is a difficult one, an artistic life is a difficult one.
I mean, is your mum successful? For instance, does she make
money from her art? She manages.
She manages. So she so she knows it can be
done. Yeah, but she, I mean, her life
is quite, it's quite spectacularreally.
But from one thing to another, she managed to do it.
To do it. I actually didn't need my
(29:51):
parents to tell me to have a second thing.
I mean, I was very interested intoo many things at school.
I did very demanding studies andI have like a a proper job,
proper job that. I like, I like it.
I mean, we automatically say those things, don't we?
Proper job. A normal job, yeah.
I mean the job that you know, pays pays the rent and pays the
(30:11):
food, but and. What's that?
What's that job? So it's in a sustainable
development. So that's not just like a money
job. It's also something you believe.
Oh. Yeah, definitely.
No, I love it. I also love it, but it's it's
very different from being a musician, but obviously.
It's probably quite good to havethat cut off between the two,
where you actually focus your brain on something completely
(30:32):
different and you don't think about music, you think about
something else. Yeah, honestly, I quite like it.
I have many musician friends whostruggle a lot to only make
music and I really admire that. But honest, sometimes I think
about it and I think, I honestlythink that if I had the choice,
I would keep a job like I would keep, keep a like a the type of
(30:53):
job I'm doing aside from music. So for people listening, your
advice for people who might be musical and want to kind of
manage what you're doing, which is be creative, but also be
(31:15):
passionate about the other partsof your life too, in terms of
your work. Because I think a lot of people
find it hard to feel that the creative life is worth it, if
that makes sense. Yeah.
Because it doesn't earn enough money, because it's not given
enough respect or enumeration. It's just, it's just something
(31:39):
for fun. Yeah, well, if you see it like
that, you should shouldn't do it.
But for me, it's just, it shouldn't be put in the same
perspective as it's either you'dhave a job or you're a musician.
It's like you're an artist. That's how you were born.
(32:00):
That's your life. Oh, so you think you were born
an. Artist, if this is something
you're born to or, or put into through your life events, but I
mean, at some point you feel like you have this in you and
this artistic energy in you. And if you can manage to do only
that and manage the life, the practical life things through it
(32:20):
with earning sufficient money, that's that's amazing.
But if you cannot it's, it's difficult and it's just, I just
see like that like if you can, it's, it's wonderful.
And if you can't, it's difficult, but it's not you
can't choose right? I mean, you just.
You can't choose to be a musician at all.
To be an artist. You, you just have that drive in
you. Yeah, I mean, for me it's like
that, but this is how I see it. But it's just me, you know?
I really struggle to make decisions in life so meditation
has helped. Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. So you've really, you've really
taken this seriously? I mean, being bad at making
decisions was not the main reason why I started meditation,
but still, it really helps because it makes you more.
I mean, it's, it's quite, I mean, it's a bit plain to say
that, but it really helps you focus on on the now moment and
(00:26):
it cures a lot of things like anxiety and depression as well,
I guess. So no, focusing on the right now
really helps me to say, you knowwhat, I don't have to draft all
this anticipated plans on I'm going to regret this later if I
do not choose this or that. And just, you know, focusing on
your instinct on right now. What do I want to do?
(00:47):
Do not start thinking about what, what if I do that and this
will, you know, like all those consequences will then happen.
OK. So there's lots of what ifs
definitely naturally for you. Yeah.
And so and they immediately comebefore you when it's when it's a
decision. Yeah, it's crazy.
It's like every day my mind usually sets on the future and
(01:08):
on all this. I mean, you know, building
scenarios is my mind's specialtyon, on what's right now.
So, and I, it prevents me from focusing on, on the, the actual
moment. It also prevents me from
enjoying a lot of things. So because you're always
thinking that you can, that you know what's going to happen.
It's often it's, it's terrible. So you know, it's just trying to
(01:31):
focus more on right now. And also acknowledging that
deeply understanding that you donot know what's going to happen.
Like you, you can draft scenarios because our minds are,
are used to that, but really youcannot know.
So it's useless to just, you know, spend sometimes in in your
mind on future scenarios that you can't actually be for sure
(01:53):
they're going to happen. So for people who are listening,
who don't have a problem with decision making, I mean, some
people will, will, will know exactly what you're talking
about. Other people, it will be
unfamiliar for people who are listening.
Is this something that that's always been there since you were
a kid? You've always been someone who
immediately comes up with lots of scenarios when faced with the
decision. Yeah, I think it's, it's the
(02:14):
main fear is fearing of regretting a thing of, of
looking back at a decision you've made and thinking I
should have made it differently.And the fear of that is
something that I mean, creates anxiety from, from the the
problem of having problems making decisions.
And this problem comes with the fact that you automatically draw
(02:35):
millions of consequences on yourchoices, even if they're very
trivial Really so. Can it be seen as a positive?
I mean, you're, you're putting it as a problem, you're putting
it as a as a barrier to decisionmaking.
Is there any way of seeing it ina positive light?
Oh, yeah. I mean, if you if you do it
reasonably, which which is not to be my case, it is very, I
(02:55):
mean it, it proves that your mind is actually amazing.
You know, you can based on, on histories, on knowledge, you can
actually draft scenarios in the future from, from actual
moments. So it's quite amazing.
I don't know if, if other, if many other species on earth are
able to do that. So when you use it at work or
in, in, you know, relevant context, it's wonderful.
But if we're choosing a meal at restaurant, it's different too
(03:17):
much. I I remember meeting someone a
long time ago and, and he had a particular thing which is kind
of related, which was he always feared to the end of a party.
He always feared the end of a good time that he was happening.
And as a result, he could never enjoy himself because he was
worried about it ending. Is that kind of related to what
(03:39):
you're talking about? Exactly.
I mean that. You're you're worried like if
you make the wrong decision there will be what consequence?
I don't know, you know, like if it, if it's a simple case like a
restaurant, you think, oh, this might be the only time I go
there. And if I do not have that food
that actually my friend is having.
So I might be, I might get jealous of his food and get a
(04:00):
bit, you know, wishy washy because I, I, I should have
taken that. I mean, it's now it's trivial,
but sometimes it's, it's much more, it's much more serious.
And for a part, I totally relate.
Like you, you have, you're having a, a nice time, but you
can't help thinking about how it's going to end at some point.
And you can definitely have thistype of, you know, like mental
forecasting on everything in life because.
(04:21):
But because we are very, we really struggle on focusing on
there's only the present that isreal.
But it's so hard to really feel that because we always think of
the past or the future and it doesn't exist though, only in
our minds. And yeah.
But as you say, it informs all of our decisions.
Oh, yeah, of course, of course. No, it is important.
(04:42):
It is important, but it's, it's just putting the, you know, like
the, it's the fine line between being like a reasonable human
being that uses his brain correctly and being like totally
overwhelmed by this capacity of just anticipating everything and
being totally unable to make choices and to enjoy the moment.
(05:06):
So do you now enjoy the moment having done your meditation,
having kind of thought about it,worked at it?
No, it works. I can definitely encourage
anyone who's willing to give it a try to do it because it has
really changed my, my, my mind and my life.
Really. Yeah.
It's really, it's a very simple practice.
They're purely simple, but they're actually very hard.
(05:27):
And practicing really helps yourmind reshaping.
And you tend to have, I mean, those bad habits of overthinking
things, of being stressed or really, I mean it.
It definitely calms down this thing.
So yeah. So when do you do the
meditation? Is it like every morning?
Every evening? Is a is a reset pattern to how
(05:48):
you do it? Is it like a regular?
Thing Yeah, yeah, I try to do itevery morning.
It's easier in the in the morning before having checked my
phone or anything because. We have to make any decisions.
Definitely, you know, when you're still a bit sleepy, like
you just catch your own self andput you on on on the floor on a
question and try to do it. And there's no, what I like
about it is that there's no, there's no sense of success or
(06:09):
failure. It's just like you, you do it as
in you listen. I mean, I do it with a, with an
app. So it's like a sort of small
podcast and you just try to do it.
So it kind of prompts you, Yeah.And you follow the instructions,
Yeah. But the instructions are
basically just, you know, focus on your breath, Try not to try
to see your own train of thoughts as something that is
external to you but not your ownself.
(06:32):
And you try. And if you fail to do that, it's
fine. It's part of the exercise.
So there's no, there's no sense of failure.
It's just trying to do it and asand it's the repetition that
really allows you to see some progress in terms of feeling
less anxious or feeling less, you know.
How long does the meditation last?
Is it like 10 minutes? Is it longer?
You can do, I mean you can do 3 minutes, you can do 10.
(06:55):
I do 10 between 10 and 15. And some people do.
Hours, days even. And do you ever, and I'm, I'm
trying not to sort of be flippant, but do you ever have a
problem deciding to do the meditation?
No, because I'm very, I'm very, I'm very square on habits like I
do. I, I'm going to sound like the
worst person who's eating vegetables, organic vegetables,
(07:16):
doing meditation and doing yoga,but I am actually that person.
And every morning I, I wake up, I do yoga, I do meditation.
It's not, it's like 30 minutes in the morning, but I've been
doing that for, I don't know, five or six years.
And now that the habit is there,you know, it's just, I know it's
there and I just do it because there's no, it's a no brainer.
You know, it's just the morning stuff you do so.
(07:39):
We're sitting in a garden in East London.
It's an urban garden off of MainStreet.
There's kids playing nearby, there's people relaxing, there's
some people drinking beer nearby.
What brought you to this garden?Why are you here at this time of
day? I like to collect my veg, my
vegetables. I often come here also to, you
(08:01):
know, just relax, have a coffee.It's quite a nice place.
I live just nearby. Really.
And the vegetables that you're collecting vegetables from here
rather than a shop because? Yeah, because it's part of that
scheme that I got a subscriptionto, which allows you to just
collect a set of vegetables thatare not chosen by you.
It's just like they picked by the the schemes and they're
(08:22):
just, they're just, yeah, build them around like what is locally
available and organically grown.Are you a good cook?
I don't know that's. Very honest.
I can't cook some. I mean, I can't cook, but I
wouldn't say that I would. I wouldn't brag about my cooking
skills do. You know what?
(08:43):
I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say I
don't know because most people go yes or no, but I don't know
is actually a great answer. Can you?
Can you see how much I'm unable to make choices right?
Do you? Do you?
Do you enjoy cooking for other people?
Yeah, no, I love it. I mean, I like it.
(09:04):
I think so. My partner cooks as well.
He's a much better cook than I. See, that doesn't help when you
live with a good cook. Yeah, that's true.
I mean, you always compare yourself to, you know, but he's
very good at cooking. He's half Italian, so he cooks
like, amazing pastas, tomato sauce that, you know, like cook
for hours, literally. And I'm, I'm more on the, OK,
(09:26):
let's make something healthy quick during the weekdays.
But I'm not, I mean, I, I would have trouble spending hours in
the kitchen cooking that. Yeah, that's not my thing.
But is cooking a social thing inyour household?
Or is cooking like one person does it and the other person
does something else? Oh no.
It's a social thing. I mean, we enjoy.
I mean, it's once again, it's going to sound very cliche, but
(09:47):
we're, we're French, so we enjoyfood, You know, it's like it's
important in our culture. You just do not grab something
quickly and it eats as just, youknow, something that you have to
do to survive. Like you have.
There's a ceremonial around it, always.
Tell us about that, because as Brits and, and I'm not speaking
for everyone else, but we, I, I think generally we feel a bit
inferior and, and we, we feel that the French have a great
(10:11):
attitude towards the food, food in a way that we don't.
Well, first I want to say something like food in the Uki
mean in London, that is because this is a place I know is
amazing. Like I, I, I, we didn't want
people to know that It's not. I mean, in Paris it's great.
But for me, French people have, you know, they've been relying
on the fact that everyone says the food is amazing in France
(10:34):
and that I think I don't think we're very innovative.
You know, we just rely on on oldrecipes that are there for that
have been there for ages and that actually not really like
old meats, very meaty food. Like it's not, it's not really
fashionable or anymore, well, this is a thing.
And then I don't know. I think the main difference is
that in, in the UK, people can really see food as something
(10:56):
that is just something you do because you have to, you know,
like you have a quick bag of like nuts scripts and, you know,
some carrots and you just eat and then you go on with your
life. And French people are are
totally unable to do that. Why, Yeah, I'd love to be like
that because. Because we are, as you say,
utilitarian with our food. We grab and we go, and it's not
good for our digestion. It's not good for like a social
(11:18):
situation. But even in families, we hardly
ever sit around and have meals anymore.
Do you though, I feel like, you know, the Sunday Roach to
something a bit a bit ceremonial.
And if you have a proper dinner yet, like you would cook a lot
of food and you would, you definitely don't have, I think
that sense of having a meal thatis a social moment.
But in France, it's that it's not something you can do, It's
(11:40):
something you have to do. I like that you know what it's
like. It's the rules.
If you're French, this is a rule.
And this is a bit annoying really, because I mean party
wise, for instance, like if you want to have some drinks with
friends on Friday night here yougo out and OK, West Coast, now
you're a bit hungry. You got a bag of chips or
something and you just eat, you know?
And then you go on with your party in France, like everything
(12:01):
has to stop because we need to to find a place to eat that is
decent, you know, so you. Can.
And then there's a big discussion.
Yeah. And it's awful because
sometimes, you know, like, it's quite hard to find a night spot
to have a drink. So you have a night spot.
You don't want to leave that spot to get some food.
But for some people you really have to because you cannot just
grab something out of, you know,like a kebab or something like
(12:22):
that. I mean, you can, but most people
are very specific on food and it's not something that you can
just, you know, easily get rid of by buying nuts.
So going back to the your decision making, it sounds like
you're not alone. You come from a country where
deciding about food is very serious and it's quite
difficult, no? No, that's true.
I mean, once, once you're in in the restaurant, then people are
(12:45):
usually much more quicker than Ito figure out what they want to
eat though. But still, no, it's really
something and we, we joke about it a lot with my partner because
since we've been here, it's, it's just, it has been so much
easier, you know, regarding thisaspect of life.
And we and we were very frustrated about how our friends
would get annoyed if we do not have, you know, a, a specific
(13:06):
plan for the food during the nights.
Your French friends. Yeah, French friends and and
here once I I remember a friend telling me he's Australian and
he just said Oh no, I hate eating on a Friday night and.
Just like no food, only drink. Yeah, and I was like, man, this
is this is this is it, you know,like people get it.
(13:26):
So do you think you've become a bit more British?
Yeah. I mean, I mean, do you like the
British attitude towards drinking food or, or do you like
to hold the line and be a bit French sometimes?
No, honestly, I I really enjoy it's attitude towards like
having having fun. Like definitely it's, it's,
well, I mean, I'm going, I'm going to, you know, French
(13:47):
people are not very fun. That's a controversial
statement. There might be some French
people listening to this. No, I mean no, but lot I mean I
love France, I love I love my country for many reasons.
But really fun is not part of the definition here.
I mean it works. I.
Wonder why? I wonder why that is.
Is it? Is it?
Is it the French take themselvesseriously?
(14:08):
Yeah, as a general rule. I mean, we're talking massive
generalisations here, obviously.No, yeah, of course.
And I don't want to, you know, like be too hard on anyone, but
it's just, I mean we over intellectualise everything,
which is a good thing sometimes,but it's an awful thing in terms
of having fun. We're so self aware, like so
much, and so it's basically impossible for someone to have
(14:32):
fun without thinking about having fun being something for
people who are a bit, you know, like not very smart, like
whatever, you know. So it's a, it's a kind of like
an inbuilt sophistication, yeah.Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like it's, it's very, it's it's very present.
I mean, I think if you're, if you're British and you go to, I
(14:53):
don't know, bars or or gigs or festivals in France, you would
definitely get the sense of that.
Like people are actually trying to have fun very hard, but they
can't really make it out. You know, they can't really
because they're just so within themselves, like looking at
themselves and being like, you know.
Would, would, would, would they look down at us, Let's say the
Brits being stupid and having fun.
(15:14):
What is interesting is that if you're a Brits and you do that
in France, people would think you're very cool.
But if you're friends French andyou do it, people would think
you're you're weird. You know, like it's.
OK. So you get away with it as an
outsider. Absolutely.
And actually I think we, I mean,we fantasise a lot on British
culture and you know, like all the fantasies around it because
(15:34):
we. Yeah, what do?
The French just think of the Brits.
I mean, we think that French arevery sophisticated and they've
got great food and they're very cultured.
What do you think of us? I'm not a very representative
member of the. Thinking for your whole country?
Because I, I left, you know, andI actually.
OK, why did you leave? Let's start there.
Yeah, well, I told you the fun. To find some fun.
(15:58):
This is not fun, No. I like for many reasons, but
I've always loved the UK. I've always been attracted to
London for history. I do music as well, so it's like
big music culture obviously. You're a musician, Yeah.
Yeah, I used to be, I used to bein a band in in France and now I
moved with my partner here to wehave a duo as well.
(16:20):
And so we are just. So you're both musicians, Yeah.
Yeah, we do music together. What kind of music are we
talking? So we would describe it as
postponed, I guess, because now everything kind of is.
That sounds great. OK explain this because.
I think it's a bit experimental.I mean, it's like we have a few
(16:40):
stints drawing machines. We do guitar both of us, and
there's a lot of spoken words. Spoken words, but it's also
songs like with proper melody, yeah.
Take us into the creative process.
You're starting from scratch. You're starting a new song or a
new project. What do you start with?
(17:02):
The words? Do you start with the music?
Do the ideas come all at once? How?
How does it? How does it flow?
It really depends. I mean, we, so sometimes my
partner has, let's say the sort of the lead on a song and I
would just add ideas like add a riff, add a production idea,
stuff like that. And sometimes it's the opposite.
(17:23):
When I'm leading, let's say a song, for me it's always like
immediately. I have everything at once, like
the main melody, the the. Oh, that's interesting.
So you see the whole thing and he sees the bits.
Yeah. I mean, you kind of do it in a
different way. But when he is in in the lead,
for him it's also more like bit by bit, like it wouldn't have
(17:44):
everything at once. For me, it's it's the opposite
design. I, I cannot, I have like
absolutely no inspirations for weeks and they have like one
song that is ready to go. And then he would add some
things and he would help of course, but it's very like as a
whole for him, it's more progressive, like it's more step
by step. And it would in time wise, it's
(18:05):
a process that could take many, many weeks or months.
For me it's like 1 go like it's like nothing at all and then
just a song and that's. Kind of the opposite of what you
were saying about your decision making, because it's almost as
when it comes to music, you're afast decision maker and you're
like, yeah, bish, bash, Bosh, done.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Because it's not, it's not coming from the same place.
(18:25):
And I think music is very intuitive.
I think for me, life in general isn't.
Maybe you should see everything in music.
Yeah, well, that, that'd be great.
And then when you and your partner are making music, how do
you know when it's done? Because I always think there
must be this thing in the creative process.
(18:45):
It must be very hard to stop because you want to keep adding
things or effects. A bit like an artist.
How does an artist know where painting is completely done?
It must be a hard decision to go, OK, I'm not going to paint
any more lines and you're not going to.
I'm not going to put in any morenotes.
Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess it's a good question, especially
(19:07):
for music because as you have, you know, different version of
your song, you have like the oneyou have maybe the demo and then
you have the one you play live and the life can change
depending on, you know, sometimes if you have several
musicians, they they can change it also.
Sometimes it's just like, you know, take for the technique or
for at some moment, you know, the way you're going to
(19:27):
interpret the song is different.So it always changes somehow.
But I mean, for a more like practical answer to your
question, I think at there's a moment, you know, in in art, we
say like it's you're born. I mean, there's, there's the
birth, then there's the death and there's the resurrection
like. OK, that you I'm confused.
(19:49):
So it, it comes from, from paintings, from painting.
Usually it's like for a portrait.
I I can't remember the painter who said that, but it's, it's,
it was on, on portraiting. So you see the the piece and the
person. As for portraits, you see, it's
like being born on on your Canva.
(20:09):
So the idea. The birth of the idea.
Yeah. And then you sort of overdo it a
little bit, and so you kill it. You kill.
You're not. You lose.
You lose the feeling with the piece.
You lose it. You're lost like you've had it
too many things or not enough. And then there's a moment where
your relationship to your hard work is just gone.
And then you continue, and then you find it again, and it's.
(20:30):
OK, So you're it's not a linear process, it's a coming and going
in and focus out of focus. Do you find out with your your.
Music, I, I personally relate tothat a lot.
And I know, I mean it's not a general truth, but I mean, for
me it really makes sense. Like, so everything is done in a
very short amount of time for me, as I was saying, like maybe
(20:51):
a day, but during that day I canhave like a lot of loads of
ideas and it makes sense. And then maybe I make a pose of
like one hour and I re listen toit and I'm completely lost.
Like I feel like I can't really remember what I mean.
I can't really understand anymore what I was trying to do.
And then I keep going and at some point I know it's finished.
And I think, you know, it's finished when when you're trying
to add something, you know, it doesn't really sound good
(21:14):
anymore. I mean, it doesn't really feel
good anymore. But this is something you feel.
I guess That's yeah. And where does your music go
when you and your partner have made music?
Does it go on a record? Do you?
Do you live gig it? How?
What do you do with the music you make?
So we have like a home are. You famous No.
(21:35):
Just checking. That you're not massively famous
somewhere. No, no, no, I'm not famous.
No, we, we, we're gigging a bit in London currently and yeah,
we're trying to, I mean, we've met, we've made a demo that
we're sending to, you know, venues and promoters and we're
just trying to play live as muchas possible.
(21:56):
You're doing gig here, you're getting ready for the gig, the
nerves, the excitement. Are you someone who likes
performing? Because for some people it would
be awful to get up on stage and perform.
Yeah, the first time I, I went on stage, I had an awful time.
I, I kept thinking to myself, I'm just going to be, you know,
(22:18):
I'm just going to be an office worker forever.
I made a massive mistake. Like artistic life is not for
me. I hate this.
I hate every moment of it. And then, then it went better
now. Describe what that first gig
was. What went wrong?
Why did it feel so bad? Nothing really, but I mean, see,
the sound engineer was a bit wasa bit of a of an ask really.
(22:38):
He told me to sing louder, like during the performance and it
was like, I can't really. So there was a bit awful, but
then no, I don't know. It was, it was so, so stressed.
You know, like so like. That's what performance is.
Performance is stressful, it surely it can never be
comfortable. Yeah, No, no, it gets
(22:59):
comfortable at some point. Yeah.
Because I mean, when, when you manage to, you know, to, I don't
know what's the exact English word is for that, but it's, it's
not really stress. It's like this very specific
feeling like, like you kind of want to go on stage, but you're
also a bit, you know, you, you're fearful of it, but you
also want to do it. It's a bit like, it's a good
stress, you know what I mean? Like, and, and this is nice
(23:21):
energy, like when you go on stage, at first you're a bit
stressed, but then you relax andthen you can finally enjoy being
on stage, which is actually amazing when you like overcome
this phase of being stressed out.
And for the first gigs I couldn't overcome the phase.
But you still push through. You push through the pain.
You and you. You because you were determined
to be a live performer on a studio person.
(23:43):
Yeah, but that's interesting about music as well, is that you
have to be so many things, right?
You have to be able to create music, to record it, to be able
to produce it a little bit. Because now people expect you to
have like, you know, legitimate demos, even if they're overmade.
You have to be a good performer,which is very different from
being a good musician as a studio, you know, artist.
So yeah, I mean, I pursued it because I, I felt like, you
(24:06):
know, this is the way you show your music actually.
And, and now we're making it. I used to do music that was more
like, you know, classic rock setstuff.
And now it's more, a bit more electronic, a bit more dancing
like you actually, it's actuallyquite enjoyable to see people
like dance to your music and it's quite, it's good fun, you
know, so. Yeah, and how much does it
matter the reaction you get to your music?
(24:26):
Does it matter if other people like it or not?
Well, it's just like, you know, you do it because you can't do
otherwise. Like if people like it, it's
it's good. If people don't like it, It's
just that's the way it is, right?
I mean. Are you, are you?
I suppose what I'm getting at is, are you, are you driven to
create no matter what the resultis in, in terms of feedback.
(24:48):
It's like within you there's a creative drive.
I need to make music. Yeah, I mean, this is what I
think this is the the main thing, right?
It's just you do it because you can't do otherwise.
And then if it works in terms oflike money and success, man,
that's a bit, that's not, that'smassive.
But you know, it's just you don't choose, you know, you just
(25:08):
do it because you can't do otherwise.
And and yeah, I mean, honestly, when people like it, I'm always
a bit surprised. Like I'm very happy and like I'm
really great. That's that's great.
But yeah. My, my mom is a, she's a, she's
(25:31):
a painter and she's very spiritual woman and she, she
thinks that you're just the medium, you know, like you just
like produce art out of you justlike channel something and you
make it into art. But it's not really your own
mental process or your own or your very own life that just
(25:54):
produces it. It's just many things around you
that you just channel. Have has she always been an
inspiration to you? Have you got a good relationship
with her in terms of, you know, you're both creative, you're a
musician, she's an artist. She's sort of connect in that
way. Yeah, a lot, a lot.
She's amazing. I have a very, very cool, cool
(26:16):
relationship with my mother and it's very precious.
Yeah, she's in terms of on this.I mean, the feelings behind
being creative are sometimes a bit difficult.
And I think she can understand that a lot.
She understands that very well. And it's also a way of seeing
the world and things and feelings that is very specific.
(26:38):
And being able to relate with your own mother on that is very
is very nice. I think something that is a bit
tricky though, is that when you've seen one of your parents
being an artist, it's very hard to then allow yourself to see
yourself as one because you knowthere's.
There's interesting why. Because you feel like you, I
(27:01):
mean, you, you feel like you'll never be good enough or that, I
mean, you have a proper example of what it is to be an artist.
And it's very difficult to, to make the difference between what
is the artist and what is your mother's way of being an artist.
And you know, and, and finding your place there is quite hard.
(27:25):
Maybe coming back to sort of thing, back to the way that we
intellectualise things too much as French people might be a
little bit of beginning of an answer there.
But still, it's just, I feel like when you do not have any,
any model in terms of being an artist, you just exist as such.
But when your parents are, it creates a weird thing, I guess
(27:46):
where, where you just compare yourself to them in that
perspective, which is a bit unusual, I guess.
And yeah, it was a bit when I was younger, it took me a lot of
time to really like, see myself as someone creative because I
always felt like my mother was so much smaller than I couldn't
actually say that I was. Oh, that's interesting.
(28:06):
So, so it's almost like matchingup to your mum because she was
such a strong presence in terms of an artistic person in your
life. And, and I mean, she definitely
never wanted to create that typeof situation, but it's just
something that happens, you know?
And I mean, it's also very, I mean, it also depends on how you
see your parents in general and,and authority and stuff like
(28:28):
that. But I mean.
Our relationships with our parents change as we go through
life. What about your dad?
What how? How is he in the mix in terms of
your creative side? My dad is the practical side of
me. He's not, he's not a massive
artist. He's not very artistic, but he's
(28:50):
he, he played music when he was younger and he actually, I mean,
he actually bought me my first guitar and sort of taught me my
first song. So, you know, it's something.
So there's music there too. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, he's definitely, I mean,he's just a casual guitar
player. Like he's.
A3 chord hero. Yeah, definitely.
But he, you know, he put me to it like when I was a kid.
(29:10):
So it was, it's good. And yeah, I mean, my
relationship with my dad is muchmore.
I mean, there's we do not share that artistic feeling type of
thing. But he's he's a very good dad on
many other things in life and music.
And do they ever say to you havea second, have a second backup
(29:31):
plan? Because a musician's life is a
is a difficult one, an artistic life is a difficult one.
I mean, is your mum successful? For instance, does she make
money from her art? She manages.
She manages. So she so she knows it can be
done. Yeah, but she, I mean, her life
is quite, it's quite spectacularreally.
But from one thing to another, she managed to do it.
To do it. I actually didn't need my
(29:51):
parents to tell me to have a second thing.
I mean, I was very interested intoo many things at school.
I did very demanding studies andI have like a a proper job,
proper job that. I like, I like it.
I mean, we automatically say those things, don't we?
Proper job. A normal job, yeah.
I mean the job that you know, pays pays the rent and pays the
(30:11):
food, but and. What's that?
What's that job? So it's in a sustainable
development. So that's not just like a money
job. It's also something you believe.
Oh. Yeah, definitely.
No, I love it. I also love it, but it's it's
very different from being a musician, but obviously.
It's probably quite good to havethat cut off between the two,
where you actually focus your brain on something completely
(30:32):
different and you don't think about music, you think about
something else. Yeah, honestly, I quite like it.
I have many musician friends whostruggle a lot to only make
music and I really admire that. But honest, sometimes I think
about it and I think, I honestlythink that if I had the choice,
I would keep a job like I would keep, keep a like a the type of
(30:53):
job I'm doing aside from music. So for people listening, your
advice for people who might be musical and want to kind of
manage what you're doing, which is be creative, but also be
(31:15):
passionate about the other partsof your life too, in terms of
your work. Because I think a lot of people
find it hard to feel that the creative life is worth it, if
that makes sense. Yeah.
Because it doesn't earn enough money, because it's not given
enough respect or enumeration. It's just, it's just something
(31:39):
for fun. Yeah, well, if you see it like
that, you should shouldn't do it.
But for me, it's just, it shouldn't be put in the same
perspective as it's either you'dhave a job or you're a musician.
It's like you're an artist. That's how you were born.
(32:00):
That's your life. Oh, so you think you were born
an. Artist, if this is something
you're born to or, or put into through your life events, but I
mean, at some point you feel like you have this in you and
this artistic energy in you. And if you can manage to do only
that and manage the life, the practical life things through it
(32:20):
with earning sufficient money, that's that's amazing.
But if you cannot it's, it's difficult and it's just, I just
see like that like if you can, it's, it's wonderful.
And if you can't, it's difficult, but it's not you
can't choose right? I mean, you just.
You can't choose to be a musician at all.
To be an artist. You, you just have that drive in
you. Yeah, I mean, for me it's like
that, but this is how I see it. But it's just me, you know?
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