September 30, 2024 • 41 mins
This episode I am taking you to the South of India to a place called Kanha Shanti Vanam (or 'Kanha' for short) in the state of Telangana.
Kanha is the international headquarters of the Heartfulness Institute, and has the world's largest meditation centre. Millions of people around the world practice Heartfulness meditation and today I will be diving deeper into the heart of what Heartfulness is with Australian Dr. Elizabeth Denley.
Within the Heartfulness institute, Elizabeth is a trainer, writer, speaker, educator, curriculum developer, and Editor in Chief for the Heartfulness Magazine. Among many other things she is a musician, nature lover, and has a PhD in Biology.
Personally, I have really benefited from the Heartfulness way and resonate deeply with the essence of the teaching to connect with ourselves, others and interact with the environment around us through the light and love in our hearts.
I hope you enjoy learning more about Heartfulness as much as I did from Elizabeth.
If you have any feedback about the episode, would love to hear your thoughts!
Find a Heartfulness Trainer or local group session:
https://heartspots.heartfulness.org/
More information about Khana Shanti Vanam:
Video: https://youtu.be/cDF1glqFVjw?si=JjGhIiPn7YZi9POSKanha Shanti Vanam Hyderabad | India | Heartfulness
Website: https://heartfulness.org/kanha/
Book recommendation:
Designing Destiny - The Heartfulness Way
https://www.amazon.in/Designing-Destiny-Kamlesh-Patel-Daaji/dp/9393986223
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Ripples of Humanity. I am Rachel Thompson and through this podcast
(00:08):
I am sharing interesting stories along my travels of people, projects and initiatives
I discover that are contributing to positive ripples throughout humanity.
This episode I am taking you to the south of India to a place called Kana Shantivanam
or Kana for short, which is in the state of Telangana, nearby the city of Hyderabad.
(00:32):
Kana is the world headquarters of the Heartfulness Institute where, among other features, the
method of heartfulness meditation is taught and practiced. In this episode today I will
be diving deeper into the heart of what heartfulness is with Dr Elizabeth Denley.
Just briefly, I came across heartfulness meditation in July this year when I was visiting friends
(00:54):
in Kolkata who I made when I lived there in 2016. My friend invited me to a meditation
session she was attending which was offered freely by a trainer. I was curious so I tagged
along. Then another friend who also practices told me about Kana Village and I discovered
that heartfulness method is actually practiced all over the world by millions of people and
(01:19):
I had never heard of it and Kana is the world's largest meditation centre and it has such
an incredible amount of initiatives that are working towards more heartful living amongst
humanity and our environment. I really thought this place sounded like such a dream and I
knew I had to come here and experience it for myself and then two months later there
(01:39):
I was. Here I got introduced to Elizabeth who is a fellow Australian and Victorian and
Elizabeth has been practicing heartfulness for 35 years and as well as a heartfulness
practitioner. In the Heartfulness Institute she is a trainer, writer, speaker, educator,
curriculum developer, the editor in chief of the Heartfulness magazine and among many
(02:00):
other things she is a musician, nature lover and has a PhD in biology. When I met Elizabeth
I immediately felt her heartful presence and admired her beautiful communication and storytelling
abilities. I hope you enjoy learning more about heartfulness as much as I did from Elizabeth.
And just a note at the beginning Elizabeth will guide a short practice to bring us into
(02:24):
our hearts so if for whatever reason you're not able to enjoy this for a few minutes please
skip forward to about six minutes of the podcast and I do encourage you to come back at a later
time to sit with this practice if you're able to. Thank you so much for joining me Elizabeth.
It's a pleasure Rachel I'm delighted to be talking to you. I'm really excited to be talking
(02:46):
about the Heartfulness Way with you today. I thought it might be really fitting to just
do a nice grounding practice to bring us into our hearts if you wouldn't mind taking us
through that. Sure. That would be lovely. We can just do a couple of minutes just to
center ourselves. So this is called a centering exercise. So close your eyes, relax. Let your
(03:09):
body really relax, drop your shoulders, drop your jaw. Feel the relaxation flowing through
your whole system and now bring your attention to your heart. Feel the warmth from your heart
that is flowing out into every cell, every atom of your body. Now dive deeper into your
(03:37):
heart beyond the physical to the energy level, the vibrational level of your being. This
is your heart where all your emotions, your feelings, your connections, yourself with
others, with the planet, they're all centered in the heart. Imagine you're going on a journey,
(04:08):
dive deeper, deeper and also visualize that the source of light, your life force that
already exists at the center of your being is pulling you deeper and deeper inwards into
(04:29):
your heart. Just rest in this state for a few moments, relaxing, diving deep and making
the connection with the center of your being.
(05:16):
And when you're ready, gently come to the surface.
(05:45):
Feel the rejuvenation and open your eyes.
Thank you for taking us through that.
That's okay. Something you can do at any time, day or night, just to connect with yourself.
(06:11):
I'm happy to see the whole podcast of that.
I really wanted to start with if someone is brand new to heartfulness and no idea what
it is, how do you even begin to start describing what it is to them?
(06:33):
So the heart is the center of our being. In all religious traditions, it's considered
to be the seat of the soul. In science now, especially through the work of heart math,
we know that everything that happens is registered in the heart first before the brain. In fact,
(06:53):
the heart registers it before it happens. That's how in tune the heart is. And only
afterwards does the brain and the mind get involved. We all know from, say in the English
language, how do we describe people? We don't call them a heavy minded. We call them heavy
(07:17):
hearted or light hearted. We know intuitively that the heart is, that we feel everything.
And of course, feeling is much deeper than just thinking, than just thoughts. They are
connected. In fact, ideally there is no difference between heart and mind. And the masters, the
(07:39):
teachers in heartfulness call it heart-mind-field, a field of consciousness. But it really emanates
from the heart. Heart is where mind, body and soul connect, for example. It's the midpoint
of all our existence. It's where we feel intuitively so many things. So when we talk about our
(08:02):
heartfulness, we're talking about exploring and mastering this world through a set of
practices and techniques that help us to understand the heart. First of all, to clear it of all
the heaviness, all the traumas and emotional difficulties we face so that we come to a
(08:23):
state of, first of all, balance and happiness really in life, contentment. And then beyond
that we dive deeper and deeper and we start to explore other dimensions of our human existence
that we probably don't think about in day-to-day living, our mundane existence. But it starts
(08:45):
with just feeling confident in who we are, contented. We're able through the heart to
develop our compassion, our courage, overcome fears, overcome anxieties, worries, all that
sort of thing and feel lighter, feel more carefree about existence, which I think is
(09:08):
important for everybody.
Definitely. Yeah, that's lovely. And how did it come to be what it is now as the heartfulness
way? How has that evolved and where did it begin? Who did it? Who brought it through?
Well, that's a long story and it could be a long story but I'll keep it short.
Yes, I think we're going to condense it.
(09:29):
Yeah. So back in the 1800s, 1873 to be precise, a man was born in North India. We call him
Lalaji. His name was Ran Chandra of Phatagar. Phatagar is a small town on the Ganges River
in the north of India. And he, from a very young age, was interested in the heart. He
(09:52):
was an amazing man. He grew up in the Hindu tradition but he studied with Sufi scholars
and he studied Christianity when he went to the mission school in the north of India because
this was the time of British colonialism. And he was very eclectic, very interested
in all these traditions but he was mostly interested in experiencing through the heart.
(10:18):
And he rediscovered, if you like, the highest level of an energy or an essence that can
be transmitted from one human being to another that we call transmission or pranayama. It's
no different from the love that a mother transmits to a child. We all know what that feels like,
(10:42):
right? We can't define it but it's there. And yet he was able to take that to the universal
level as a teacher to be able to transmit the essence of the universe, of universal
consciousness, universal love to everyone. And this enhances any sort of practice, whether
(11:05):
you're doing a religious practice or mindfulness or the heartfulness practices, this yogic
transmission as it's called is able to take you deeper, give you glimpses of states that
you wouldn't necessarily experience on your own. And this is one of the defining signatures
(11:26):
of heartfulness that he discovered that back in the late 1800s, still while he was a young
boy. And then he brought it into the 20th century and he had a disciple, an associate
who was able to carry that tradition forward by the name of Babuji, another Ramchandra
from the north of India. And Babuji and then his successor Charaji took that out to the
(11:52):
world from the 1970s. They travelled to Europe, they travelled to the US, they travelled to
South East Asia, to South Africa. And people all over the world started experiencing, and
of course this was the 70s, when these traditions were starting to explode in the West after
(12:16):
the Beatles and after all the people who came to India and discovered so-called Indian spirituality
and yoga. Which is not Indian per se, it's a universal thing. It's a philosophy, it's
a practical approach that's been there for thousands of years. But it needed to be brought
into the modern era. And it needed to be brought into a way of practice that didn't require
(12:45):
a lot of the ancient sort of heavy duty practices that don't fit with the modern lifestyle.
So during this time, in the last 150 years, not only in this heartfulness tradition, but
across all disciplines of yoga and of spirituality and of philosophy, you see this huge blossoming.
(13:09):
You know, from Vipassana we have mindfulness, for example. And mindfulness in the West has
now gone out into so many different directions, but it retains the essence of what the original
spiritual practice was. But it's been made more accessible for people who don't necessarily
(13:31):
feel comfortable in something that's called spiritual. It's the same with heartfulness.
The original traditions are there, but the way that the practices have been couched for
people in the modern world make it far more accessible. And you can dive deeper and deeper
(13:51):
into the yogic science and philosophy. That's there. That's what I do and what I love. But
that's not for everybody. A lot of people just want a simple meditation practice they
can do in the morning. They want a simple practice of cleaning the mind of all its heaviness
and a way of connecting to the inner self. And that's essentially what the three fundamental
(14:14):
practices of heartfulness are. So it's evolved from this very strong ancient tradition into
the modern era, from Lalluji to Babuji to the next teacher, Charuji, and now the current
one, Daji, who are just there as guides, as buddies if you like, fellow travelers. There's
(14:38):
no idea of guru worship or anything like that. In fact, the opposite. All of these four people
will tell you shy away from that sort of putting a guru on a pedestal because it's not the
way it's meant to be. In fact, Babuji used to say, which is very sweet, that because
people would say, you wash the feet of the guru so that you can get evolution from him
(15:04):
just by the process. And Babuji said, so why not the guru wash the feet of the disciple?
You're still going to get the connection. There's a different feeling about this system
that doesn't put anyone on a pedestal, which I've always loved because I'm an Aussie,
and Aussies are not into hierarchies in that way. You're an Aussie, you understand. There
(15:29):
has to be this feeling that there's a level playing field, and very much there is in helpfulness.
I think that sums it up really well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. In your journey, Elizabeth,
have you had doubts and what have they been? And I'd really like to know what's the best
kind of questions you've asked or answers you've had to understand those doubts.
(15:54):
Yeah. So doubts happen on the mental level. And while I'm quite an intellectual person,
I'm quite an academic person in many ways, it's not my real response to the world. So
when I first started this, I'd been through, I had a scientific career as an ecologist,
(16:15):
research scientist focusing on experimental design. And I was out in the field in nature.
I've always loved nature. And I was a musician. Looking back, I loved spiritual texts, and
I used to sing a lot of religious music without being religious. I grew up in an atheist family.
And so I never considered myself religious or spiritual at all. And yet, many of the
(16:41):
things that I loved had to do with the realm of the spirit, including the natural world.
So one day, I got married, I left science because I felt like something was lacking
and I wasn't really happy in that world. And my husband was working for the UN, we
(17:03):
traveled a lot in the Philippines and ended up in Europe and he ended up in Geneva at
the UN, working as a doctor looking after refugees around the world. And his boss, who
was an economist and who headed up the technical team, was a trainer in this system in health
and wellness. And he said to me one day, he said, Elizabeth, I'm going to give you something
(17:25):
to read. You know, see what you think. If you're interested, we'll follow up. And he
is a lovely man and there was something about him which really drew me. There was a charisma
about him that I thought, there's something about this man that is special. But I didn't
know what it was. So he gave me this to read and they were off on a mission and when they
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came back he said, are you interested? And I said, yes, I am. I'm curious. He said then,
be at my house at three o'clock on Thursday and there'll be somebody there who can show
you how to do this. So it was his friend who was a very imposing Arab, very tall with a
big afro and a big mustache and quite intimidating. But he gave me the first introductory meditation
(18:18):
session and it just, it just blew me away because I knew the minute it started that
this is what I'd been missing. I didn't know it here, but I knew it here. And from that
first session, that first meditation, it was as if, okay, you've come home. You're where
(18:46):
you need to be. And a week later I met Charaji in France close by in the chateau where we
used to have gatherings then and the journey started. And as a scientist I think that was
a great advantage because my observational skills were very honed having been a research
(19:10):
scientist. My inquiring mind was very honed because that's what I'd been doing all this
time. And so when I turned that to an inner focus, what's happening inside me, I could
use those same skills that I'd learned to explore what was going on in an inner level
in the meditation. And that was really, really valuable. I already had a consciousness and
(19:36):
awareness of observation and being able to be confident with that process and it helped
a lot. So that was 35 years ago. And of course there are ups and downs in the journey, but
my faith in the fact that this path is the right one for me never faltered because it
(20:02):
was continuing to evolve. And one of the things I learned early on from my teachers, from
Charaji and Daji, is that there will be ups and downs and the journey is like that. The
spiritual journey is like that. It's like any change. When you come to India, for example,
from Australia, you're very excited. There are many things you just go, oh, I'm here.
(20:27):
But then you also get frustrated by certain things that are different, right, because
it's change. And inner journey is the same. It's not always pleasant. You hit real obstacles
sometimes, real challenges. And one of the things I love about heartfulness in that regard
is that you're not alone. I think dealing with those things alone would be really, really
(20:53):
hard. And as human beings, we're not meant to be alone. So heartfulness is always about
having the support of a community and trainers. Now I'm a trainer. I've been a trainer since
1991. But I still go for meditations to other trainers, like I did this morning. I had a
beautiful meditation with another trainer. And I'm still a practitioner, first and foremost.
(21:20):
As a trainer, I'm only doing a service. But first and foremost, I'm a practitioner on
a spiritual journey that I want to. And what's a spiritual journey? It's not saying esoteric.
It's just about reaching your human potential. You know, everybody says that even Einstein
(21:42):
used only 10% of his brain. What's the rest of it there? What are we not connecting with?
That's the journey of spirituality. So for me, any doubts have just been blips along
the way, but they've not turned me away from following this journey.
(22:05):
With how heartfulness has grown and evolved, it's now spread across the world. And could
you explain a bit about the volume of how big it actually is and also a little focus
on Australia? Because we're both from Australia.
So I mentioned that in the early 70s, these teachers went to the West, they went to Africa,
(22:26):
they went to Southeast Asia. And things started to explode. But it was still small scale now,
and for example, Charity came to Australia for the first time in 1994. And only to Sydney.
It was a short trip, but it seeded something to expand even more. So if you look at heartfulness
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now, it's in around 160 countries. I think it's registered formally in 130 of those.
And in Australia, we've been an association since 1990. And now we're an educational institute
that is very functional. We have a board, we have the executive committees, we have
(23:14):
all those things that NGOs have. So we've been around for a while. There are millions
of practitioners now, and there are now something like 17,000 trainers around the world. We
also have an app called the Heartfulness app, which means that you can go on your app and
have a meditation session with a trainer anywhere in the world at any time, 24-7, free of charge.
(23:38):
So there's always someone available that's on that roster to provide sittings.
And so basically, you can be anywhere and start heartfulness or continue to have sessions
with trainers. That's what I meant about the support. The infrastructure in this organization
is just phenomenal. And it's free of charge. I mean, we do take donations. It's not that
(24:03):
we don't need money to function on that level, obviously. We need money. But it's by donation.
We don't charge for any of the programs. So in Australia, we started in Sydney very humbly,
late 80s, early 90s. And then it spread to Melbourne and Brisbane and Perth and Adelaide
(24:24):
and then regional centers. So now we have about almost 90, probably 90 by now, trainers
in Australia spread across the country. And of course, the app's there. So you can also
take sittings on the app. Melbourne, for example, we have seven centers in the greater Melbourne
(24:44):
region area. I'm outside of that. I'm an hour and a half northwest near Dalesford. We have
all sorts of centers regionally now and individuals like yourself who are not necessarily where
there's a center, but that we service. Sydney the same, Brisbane the same. We have centers
(25:06):
in Albury and Canberra and Central Coast, South Coast in New South Wales, Toowoomba,
the Gold Coast, Harvey Bay up on the central Queensland coast. So there's a big reach and
it just keeps spreading. So that's where we're at right now. We have big plans for next year
(25:32):
to take things even further in Australia. And we're always looking for people who are
keen to work as trainers. So, you know, anybody who starts the practice and likes it and is
really keen can also go in that route also to become a trainer. It's not some elite group,
it's a service role. So we welcome people.
(25:57):
So we're here at Kana Shantipanam in Hyderabad in India and this is the global headquarters
for Heartfulness. When I first heard about this place, it sounded like a dream really.
And I knew I had to come here for myself after two months of being introduced to Heartfulness
and feeling the power of it. And I'm here now and it's just been a phenomenal experience
(26:20):
to be here and feel the energy here. But how did this place come into being? If you could
take us on a little journey there.
Oh, it's a big journey too. So prior to being here, we were based in Chennai in Tamil Nadu
where the previous teacher Charaji had his ashram. And I lived there for some time and
(26:45):
then when he passed in December 2014, we already had land here. He in fact had instigated.
Charaji had instigated the purchase of some of the land that's here, not all of it that
you see now.
When we talk about the land here, how big is it?
It's about 1400 acres. It's big. And it's really a village now. It's a township, a village.
(27:14):
But we just had a few plots of land back then and the locals had started creating roads
and whatever. But there are only 72 neem trees here basically. It was really barren because
this land is on the Deccan Plateau. It gets extremely hot in summer and it wasn't getting
very good rains either during the monsoon time. So very barren, poor soils, I mean, overfarmed,
(27:41):
a lot of erosion. So in pretty terrible state.
So we started coming here in 2015 and by March 2017, Daji had moved here. I also moved here
and a number of other people and the work really started. But what's interesting about
(28:02):
Kanna is that the first work that started here was to meditate. Not to start on the
environmental project straight away, but to come and meditate, to create the atmosphere
through that meditation, that loving atmosphere which trees, birds, everything responds to,
not just human beings. So we started with that and then the work of improving the soil,
(28:31):
creating water bodies, planting trees so that the water table would rise, developing composting
and biochar and other ways to improve the fertility of the soil. Because if the soil
is improved, even just that one thing, it's a sink for carbon, the soil. And once the
(28:56):
soil is improved and trees are growing and microclimates are forming and microecology
systems are developing, then we can combat climate change. It's not an impossibility.
It's just a matter of creating that lifestyle, that not only sustainable but regenerative
lifestyle that allows the carbon cycles on the earth to be in balance. And that's what
(29:24):
we've done. And experts have come in from all over the world to help with that. We have
water harvesting, we have water purification using natural systems, we have solar, we have
power. We don't need to be on the grid effectively. We have enough power developed here. I mean,
(29:47):
there's sun beyond imagination here in Telangana, so there's enough sun to create solar power.
We have rainforests in this so-called dry environment. We have endemic species. We have
a tissue culture lab that is saving rare species that are going extinct in other parts of the
(30:11):
country. So many things have happened here. We have cottage industries like pottery. One
lady from Cleveland, Ohio, who's a master potter came and set up the pottery studio.
Many people have come and done things. We eat a lot of our own vegetables. We have horticulture
(30:31):
products here that you can buy, health products. We have a wellness center. I mean, we also
have a medical center which is needed, but we have a wellness center for Ayurveda and
acupuncture and other modalities. We have a yoga program, an accredited yoga school
through the government of India. It's all happening here and that's all happened basically
(30:52):
since 2017. Wow. And the education as well. So there's a school? There are three schools.
Three schools. Yeah. And there will be a university eventually. It's just being built step by
step by step. And when you come here, you realize with a volunteer base like we have,
(31:12):
it's not so difficult. Yes, it requires a lot of hard work from a lot of people, but
when everyone's willing to do it because they believe in the planet, they believe in living
a lifestyle that's heartful. Is that the core of it? What's at the core of this, the heartfulness?
(31:34):
Is it to unite humanity or what is the core? Yeah, it's to unite humanity and it's for
humanity to live in tune with nature. So first to be one of our maxims, one of our core tenets
in heartful living is to be simple so as to be identical with nature. That means simplifying
(31:58):
your lifestyle, simplifying first of all what's going on inside here, which means if you have
a lot of intense emotions and complexities and dramas in your life, that's got to go.
Otherwise all the thought pollution is going to create the outside pollution. We have to
start with ourselves. We start with ourselves, we get to a state of purity and functionality
(32:22):
I would call it as human beings so that we can be caring and loving and kind and giving
to each other, to the planet, to other species. And then we start to work on the externals
as well. So it's all part of heartful living. And the more you practice, the better you
(32:43):
are able to deal with challenges, to find solutions to things. I mean some of the solutions
that we've found to grow, like even the foresters who came here when Darjeet said, we want to
plant a rainforest in Karnal. And you know it's a desert, right? It's a barren desert.
And he says we'll plant a rainforest. And they're like, not possible. And he says again,
(33:09):
we'll plant a rainforest. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. It took him four goes to get
their minds open enough to say, okay, we'll try if you really want to. Because we all
have our limitations, we all have our views, our worldviews, our prejudices, our beliefs
about what's possible. That's what changes with the practice. You know, our neurocircuitries
(33:34):
are pretty fixed because of our upbringings, our cultures, our beliefs, et cetera. What
we're unraveling through these practices is that dogmatic fixed nature of belief. We're
dissolving it through our practice of heartfulness cleaning so that we can start to see things
(33:59):
in new ways. Be more like little kids who are just so full of wonder and awe. That's
really what it's all about. Opening our potential. And so Karnal is an example of just the love
that's been poured into this place and the potential that can arise when that love is
(34:22):
there. Trees respond to it. Every time we plant a tree, the people who do it sit and
meditate with that tree. You know, welcoming it to this place. So beautiful. That's why
it sounds like a dream to me. With scientific research that's being done in the heartfulness
(34:45):
way or in Karnal itself, is there lots of that happening?
Yes, there's a lot happening. Not as much as some other organizations that are fully
research focused. I mean, we have a research wing, but it's a fairly recent thing. There
are other organizations like HeartMath that's been doing this for 30 years. We're much more
(35:06):
recent, but the results that are coming from our research are really quite phenomenal.
The head of research from HeartMath, Dr. Roland McCratty, was here at the beginning of this
year for a big event that was happening. He actually used his instruments, the HeartMath
instruments, to measure heart coherence during that seminar. Of course, the readings were
(35:34):
way above the normals. There's a lot of research that shows, when you mentioned unity before,
that human beings become united. That's coherence. When our hearts are in sync instead of all
at odds with each other. It doesn't mean that we all have to become the same. The people
(35:57):
at that conference where he measured that, there were Christians, there were Jews, there
were Muslims, there were Hindus, there were Jains, there were Sikhs, there were atheists.
It was everybody coming for an interfaith gathering. Yet, when we all sat and meditated
together with the transmission, the coherence just went like that. We were all together,
(36:21):
the hearts reunited without anybody having to change their beliefs or their looks or
their clothing or the food they eat or anything else.
It's powerful. I would pause here. I'd love to go more into the religious spirituality,
but I think that will lead us to another half an hour. I won't go there today. We're going
(36:45):
to wrap up soon. For you, what's your role now in heartfulness and what's next for you,
Elizabeth?
First and foremost, I'm a practitioner. That's the real... because we're all evolving and
any work that I do in the organization is only within that framework and that context.
(37:06):
I'm also a trainer, so I'm available to give meditation sessions. We do a lot of corporate
sessions as well in Australia and group sessions. I also write. I'm the editor of Heartfulness
magazine and I work a lot on the books, including the old books of Lullaby and Babaji. They're
(37:29):
translations from Urdu into English and getting those published. I love that work because
I'm still in many ways a researcher myself. I really, really get a lot from that and enjoy
it. I'm also hoping in Australia because I divide my time between here in Kaurna and
my family in Australia, especially now that I have a grandchild. There's a much bigger
(37:54):
pool back there. But also because I feel like Australians are very open, maybe not to religion.
Like myself, I grew up in an atheist family. Why? Because religion hasn't done a lot for
Australia in many ways. The traditional religions, I mean, not the founders of the religions,
(38:19):
there's beauty in religion, but the way our society has been set up and the way indigenous
beliefs were just completely ignored. Many new people coming in from different parts
of the world are now starting to establish their presence as well. I think it's a very
(38:42):
fertile place for a spiritual system that is real, that is not based on dogma, that
is just based on pure existence, living in tune with the natural world, in tune with
each other, for harmony, et cetera. I want to be a part of that. I think that's important.
(39:08):
I think we have been lucky enough that indigenous Australians prayed for peace for so many thousands
of years. As a result, we've been much luckier than some parts of the world where it's been
a lot more violent and more focused. But we still have our issues. We still have our prejudices
(39:28):
and we still have a long way to go for people in the culture there to all be happy. There's
so much mental illness and so many people who are struggling and suffering. I think
if there's anything we can do, it's to bring simple practices and simple skills to people
(39:52):
so that they can support themselves and get help with that stuff. That's what I'm interested
in doing.
Yeah. Thank you. I think that's a beautiful place to end. I look forward to staying in
touch throughout the journey.
Elizabeth, thank you, sister.
Thank you for all the work you do. Me too, Rachel. It's lovely to talk with you.
(40:13):
I hope you gained some insight from this interesting conversation with Elizabeth about the heartful
way and how it is contributing toward a consciousness shift in humanity across the world. Personally,
I've really benefited from the heartfulness way and resonate deeply with the essence of
the teaching to connect with ourselves, others, and interact with the environment around us
(40:34):
through the light and love in our hearts. My two weeks spent at Kana is a time I will
not forget and I'm sure I will not realize the full impact it had on me until sometime
in the future. If you are interested in learning more about heartfulness or seeing if there
is an individual trainer or group session in your part of the world, you can look at
(40:54):
the Heartfulness website, which I will link to in the episode notes.
There are also many books published about heartfulness. I asked Elizabeth after the
episode if she could recommend a good place to start. She suggested the book Designing
Destiny written by Kamlesh Patel, the current spiritual guide for heartfulness, who is also
(41:15):
known as Daji, which means father's brother. I will also link to this book in the episode
notes. Thank you for taking the time to listen. Please feel free to rate the podcast and share
with any friends who this may interest.
Hello and welcome to Ripples of Humanity. I am Rachel Thompson and through this podcast
(00:08):
I am sharing interesting stories along my travels of people, projects and initiatives
I discover that are contributing to positive ripples throughout humanity.
This episode I am taking you to the south of India to a place called Kana Shantivanam
or Kana for short, which is in the state of Telangana, nearby the city of Hyderabad.
(00:32):
Kana is the world headquarters of the Heartfulness Institute where, among other features, the
method of heartfulness meditation is taught and practiced. In this episode today I will
be diving deeper into the heart of what heartfulness is with Dr Elizabeth Denley.
Just briefly, I came across heartfulness meditation in July this year when I was visiting friends
(00:54):
in Kolkata who I made when I lived there in 2016. My friend invited me to a meditation
session she was attending which was offered freely by a trainer. I was curious so I tagged
along. Then another friend who also practices told me about Kana Village and I discovered
that heartfulness method is actually practiced all over the world by millions of people and
(01:19):
I had never heard of it and Kana is the world's largest meditation centre and it has such
an incredible amount of initiatives that are working towards more heartful living amongst
humanity and our environment. I really thought this place sounded like such a dream and I
knew I had to come here and experience it for myself and then two months later there
(01:39):
I was. Here I got introduced to Elizabeth who is a fellow Australian and Victorian and
Elizabeth has been practicing heartfulness for 35 years and as well as a heartfulness
practitioner. In the Heartfulness Institute she is a trainer, writer, speaker, educator,
curriculum developer, the editor in chief of the Heartfulness magazine and among many
(02:00):
other things she is a musician, nature lover and has a PhD in biology. When I met Elizabeth
I immediately felt her heartful presence and admired her beautiful communication and storytelling
abilities. I hope you enjoy learning more about heartfulness as much as I did from Elizabeth.
And just a note at the beginning Elizabeth will guide a short practice to bring us into
(02:24):
our hearts so if for whatever reason you're not able to enjoy this for a few minutes please
skip forward to about six minutes of the podcast and I do encourage you to come back at a later
time to sit with this practice if you're able to. Thank you so much for joining me Elizabeth.
It's a pleasure Rachel I'm delighted to be talking to you. I'm really excited to be talking
(02:46):
about the Heartfulness Way with you today. I thought it might be really fitting to just
do a nice grounding practice to bring us into our hearts if you wouldn't mind taking us
through that. Sure. That would be lovely. We can just do a couple of minutes just to
center ourselves. So this is called a centering exercise. So close your eyes, relax. Let your
(03:09):
body really relax, drop your shoulders, drop your jaw. Feel the relaxation flowing through
your whole system and now bring your attention to your heart. Feel the warmth from your heart
that is flowing out into every cell, every atom of your body. Now dive deeper into your
(03:37):
heart beyond the physical to the energy level, the vibrational level of your being. This
is your heart where all your emotions, your feelings, your connections, yourself with
others, with the planet, they're all centered in the heart. Imagine you're going on a journey,
(04:08):
dive deeper, deeper and also visualize that the source of light, your life force that
already exists at the center of your being is pulling you deeper and deeper inwards into
(04:29):
your heart. Just rest in this state for a few moments, relaxing, diving deep and making
the connection with the center of your being.
(05:16):
And when you're ready, gently come to the surface.
(05:45):
Feel the rejuvenation and open your eyes.
Thank you for taking us through that.
That's okay. Something you can do at any time, day or night, just to connect with yourself.
(06:11):
I'm happy to see the whole podcast of that.
I really wanted to start with if someone is brand new to heartfulness and no idea what
it is, how do you even begin to start describing what it is to them?
(06:33):
So the heart is the center of our being. In all religious traditions, it's considered
to be the seat of the soul. In science now, especially through the work of heart math,
we know that everything that happens is registered in the heart first before the brain. In fact,
(06:53):
the heart registers it before it happens. That's how in tune the heart is. And only
afterwards does the brain and the mind get involved. We all know from, say in the English
language, how do we describe people? We don't call them a heavy minded. We call them heavy
(07:17):
hearted or light hearted. We know intuitively that the heart is, that we feel everything.
And of course, feeling is much deeper than just thinking, than just thoughts. They are
connected. In fact, ideally there is no difference between heart and mind. And the masters, the
(07:39):
teachers in heartfulness call it heart-mind-field, a field of consciousness. But it really emanates
from the heart. Heart is where mind, body and soul connect, for example. It's the midpoint
of all our existence. It's where we feel intuitively so many things. So when we talk about our
(08:02):
heartfulness, we're talking about exploring and mastering this world through a set of
practices and techniques that help us to understand the heart. First of all, to clear it of all
the heaviness, all the traumas and emotional difficulties we face so that we come to a
(08:23):
state of, first of all, balance and happiness really in life, contentment. And then beyond
that we dive deeper and deeper and we start to explore other dimensions of our human existence
that we probably don't think about in day-to-day living, our mundane existence. But it starts
(08:45):
with just feeling confident in who we are, contented. We're able through the heart to
develop our compassion, our courage, overcome fears, overcome anxieties, worries, all that
sort of thing and feel lighter, feel more carefree about existence, which I think is
(09:08):
important for everybody.
Definitely. Yeah, that's lovely. And how did it come to be what it is now as the heartfulness
way? How has that evolved and where did it begin? Who did it? Who brought it through?
Well, that's a long story and it could be a long story but I'll keep it short.
Yes, I think we're going to condense it.
(09:29):
Yeah. So back in the 1800s, 1873 to be precise, a man was born in North India. We call him
Lalaji. His name was Ran Chandra of Phatagar. Phatagar is a small town on the Ganges River
in the north of India. And he, from a very young age, was interested in the heart. He
(09:52):
was an amazing man. He grew up in the Hindu tradition but he studied with Sufi scholars
and he studied Christianity when he went to the mission school in the north of India because
this was the time of British colonialism. And he was very eclectic, very interested
in all these traditions but he was mostly interested in experiencing through the heart.
(10:18):
And he rediscovered, if you like, the highest level of an energy or an essence that can
be transmitted from one human being to another that we call transmission or pranayama. It's
no different from the love that a mother transmits to a child. We all know what that feels like,
(10:42):
right? We can't define it but it's there. And yet he was able to take that to the universal
level as a teacher to be able to transmit the essence of the universe, of universal
consciousness, universal love to everyone. And this enhances any sort of practice, whether
(11:05):
you're doing a religious practice or mindfulness or the heartfulness practices, this yogic
transmission as it's called is able to take you deeper, give you glimpses of states that
you wouldn't necessarily experience on your own. And this is one of the defining signatures
(11:26):
of heartfulness that he discovered that back in the late 1800s, still while he was a young
boy. And then he brought it into the 20th century and he had a disciple, an associate
who was able to carry that tradition forward by the name of Babuji, another Ramchandra
from the north of India. And Babuji and then his successor Charaji took that out to the
(11:52):
world from the 1970s. They travelled to Europe, they travelled to the US, they travelled to
South East Asia, to South Africa. And people all over the world started experiencing, and
of course this was the 70s, when these traditions were starting to explode in the West after
(12:16):
the Beatles and after all the people who came to India and discovered so-called Indian spirituality
and yoga. Which is not Indian per se, it's a universal thing. It's a philosophy, it's
a practical approach that's been there for thousands of years. But it needed to be brought
into the modern era. And it needed to be brought into a way of practice that didn't require
(12:45):
a lot of the ancient sort of heavy duty practices that don't fit with the modern lifestyle.
So during this time, in the last 150 years, not only in this heartfulness tradition, but
across all disciplines of yoga and of spirituality and of philosophy, you see this huge blossoming.
(13:09):
You know, from Vipassana we have mindfulness, for example. And mindfulness in the West has
now gone out into so many different directions, but it retains the essence of what the original
spiritual practice was. But it's been made more accessible for people who don't necessarily
(13:31):
feel comfortable in something that's called spiritual. It's the same with heartfulness.
The original traditions are there, but the way that the practices have been couched for
people in the modern world make it far more accessible. And you can dive deeper and deeper
(13:51):
into the yogic science and philosophy. That's there. That's what I do and what I love. But
that's not for everybody. A lot of people just want a simple meditation practice they
can do in the morning. They want a simple practice of cleaning the mind of all its heaviness
and a way of connecting to the inner self. And that's essentially what the three fundamental
(14:14):
practices of heartfulness are. So it's evolved from this very strong ancient tradition into
the modern era, from Lalluji to Babuji to the next teacher, Charuji, and now the current
one, Daji, who are just there as guides, as buddies if you like, fellow travelers. There's
(14:38):
no idea of guru worship or anything like that. In fact, the opposite. All of these four people
will tell you shy away from that sort of putting a guru on a pedestal because it's not the
way it's meant to be. In fact, Babuji used to say, which is very sweet, that because
people would say, you wash the feet of the guru so that you can get evolution from him
(15:04):
just by the process. And Babuji said, so why not the guru wash the feet of the disciple?
You're still going to get the connection. There's a different feeling about this system
that doesn't put anyone on a pedestal, which I've always loved because I'm an Aussie,
and Aussies are not into hierarchies in that way. You're an Aussie, you understand. There
(15:29):
has to be this feeling that there's a level playing field, and very much there is in helpfulness.
I think that sums it up really well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. In your journey, Elizabeth,
have you had doubts and what have they been? And I'd really like to know what's the best
kind of questions you've asked or answers you've had to understand those doubts.
(15:54):
Yeah. So doubts happen on the mental level. And while I'm quite an intellectual person,
I'm quite an academic person in many ways, it's not my real response to the world. So
when I first started this, I'd been through, I had a scientific career as an ecologist,
(16:15):
research scientist focusing on experimental design. And I was out in the field in nature.
I've always loved nature. And I was a musician. Looking back, I loved spiritual texts, and
I used to sing a lot of religious music without being religious. I grew up in an atheist family.
And so I never considered myself religious or spiritual at all. And yet, many of the
(16:41):
things that I loved had to do with the realm of the spirit, including the natural world.
So one day, I got married, I left science because I felt like something was lacking
and I wasn't really happy in that world. And my husband was working for the UN, we
(17:03):
traveled a lot in the Philippines and ended up in Europe and he ended up in Geneva at
the UN, working as a doctor looking after refugees around the world. And his boss, who
was an economist and who headed up the technical team, was a trainer in this system in health
and wellness. And he said to me one day, he said, Elizabeth, I'm going to give you something
(17:25):
to read. You know, see what you think. If you're interested, we'll follow up. And he
is a lovely man and there was something about him which really drew me. There was a charisma
about him that I thought, there's something about this man that is special. But I didn't
know what it was. So he gave me this to read and they were off on a mission and when they
(17:49):
came back he said, are you interested? And I said, yes, I am. I'm curious. He said then,
be at my house at three o'clock on Thursday and there'll be somebody there who can show
you how to do this. So it was his friend who was a very imposing Arab, very tall with a
big afro and a big mustache and quite intimidating. But he gave me the first introductory meditation
(18:18):
session and it just, it just blew me away because I knew the minute it started that
this is what I'd been missing. I didn't know it here, but I knew it here. And from that
first session, that first meditation, it was as if, okay, you've come home. You're where
(18:46):
you need to be. And a week later I met Charaji in France close by in the chateau where we
used to have gatherings then and the journey started. And as a scientist I think that was
a great advantage because my observational skills were very honed having been a research
(19:10):
scientist. My inquiring mind was very honed because that's what I'd been doing all this
time. And so when I turned that to an inner focus, what's happening inside me, I could
use those same skills that I'd learned to explore what was going on in an inner level
in the meditation. And that was really, really valuable. I already had a consciousness and
(19:36):
awareness of observation and being able to be confident with that process and it helped
a lot. So that was 35 years ago. And of course there are ups and downs in the journey, but
my faith in the fact that this path is the right one for me never faltered because it
(20:02):
was continuing to evolve. And one of the things I learned early on from my teachers, from
Charaji and Daji, is that there will be ups and downs and the journey is like that. The
spiritual journey is like that. It's like any change. When you come to India, for example,
from Australia, you're very excited. There are many things you just go, oh, I'm here.
(20:27):
But then you also get frustrated by certain things that are different, right, because
it's change. And inner journey is the same. It's not always pleasant. You hit real obstacles
sometimes, real challenges. And one of the things I love about heartfulness in that regard
is that you're not alone. I think dealing with those things alone would be really, really
(20:53):
hard. And as human beings, we're not meant to be alone. So heartfulness is always about
having the support of a community and trainers. Now I'm a trainer. I've been a trainer since
1991. But I still go for meditations to other trainers, like I did this morning. I had a
beautiful meditation with another trainer. And I'm still a practitioner, first and foremost.
(21:20):
As a trainer, I'm only doing a service. But first and foremost, I'm a practitioner on
a spiritual journey that I want to. And what's a spiritual journey? It's not saying esoteric.
It's just about reaching your human potential. You know, everybody says that even Einstein
(21:42):
used only 10% of his brain. What's the rest of it there? What are we not connecting with?
That's the journey of spirituality. So for me, any doubts have just been blips along
the way, but they've not turned me away from following this journey.
(22:05):
With how heartfulness has grown and evolved, it's now spread across the world. And could
you explain a bit about the volume of how big it actually is and also a little focus
on Australia? Because we're both from Australia.
So I mentioned that in the early 70s, these teachers went to the West, they went to Africa,
(22:26):
they went to Southeast Asia. And things started to explode. But it was still small scale now,
and for example, Charity came to Australia for the first time in 1994. And only to Sydney.
It was a short trip, but it seeded something to expand even more. So if you look at heartfulness
(22:50):
now, it's in around 160 countries. I think it's registered formally in 130 of those.
And in Australia, we've been an association since 1990. And now we're an educational institute
that is very functional. We have a board, we have the executive committees, we have
(23:14):
all those things that NGOs have. So we've been around for a while. There are millions
of practitioners now, and there are now something like 17,000 trainers around the world. We
also have an app called the Heartfulness app, which means that you can go on your app and
have a meditation session with a trainer anywhere in the world at any time, 24-7, free of charge.
(23:38):
So there's always someone available that's on that roster to provide sittings.
And so basically, you can be anywhere and start heartfulness or continue to have sessions
with trainers. That's what I meant about the support. The infrastructure in this organization
is just phenomenal. And it's free of charge. I mean, we do take donations. It's not that
(24:03):
we don't need money to function on that level, obviously. We need money. But it's by donation.
We don't charge for any of the programs. So in Australia, we started in Sydney very humbly,
late 80s, early 90s. And then it spread to Melbourne and Brisbane and Perth and Adelaide
(24:24):
and then regional centers. So now we have about almost 90, probably 90 by now, trainers
in Australia spread across the country. And of course, the app's there. So you can also
take sittings on the app. Melbourne, for example, we have seven centers in the greater Melbourne
(24:44):
region area. I'm outside of that. I'm an hour and a half northwest near Dalesford. We have
all sorts of centers regionally now and individuals like yourself who are not necessarily where
there's a center, but that we service. Sydney the same, Brisbane the same. We have centers
(25:06):
in Albury and Canberra and Central Coast, South Coast in New South Wales, Toowoomba,
the Gold Coast, Harvey Bay up on the central Queensland coast. So there's a big reach and
it just keeps spreading. So that's where we're at right now. We have big plans for next year
(25:32):
to take things even further in Australia. And we're always looking for people who are
keen to work as trainers. So, you know, anybody who starts the practice and likes it and is
really keen can also go in that route also to become a trainer. It's not some elite group,
it's a service role. So we welcome people.
(25:57):
So we're here at Kana Shantipanam in Hyderabad in India and this is the global headquarters
for Heartfulness. When I first heard about this place, it sounded like a dream really.
And I knew I had to come here for myself after two months of being introduced to Heartfulness
and feeling the power of it. And I'm here now and it's just been a phenomenal experience
(26:20):
to be here and feel the energy here. But how did this place come into being? If you could
take us on a little journey there.
Oh, it's a big journey too. So prior to being here, we were based in Chennai in Tamil Nadu
where the previous teacher Charaji had his ashram. And I lived there for some time and
(26:45):
then when he passed in December 2014, we already had land here. He in fact had instigated.
Charaji had instigated the purchase of some of the land that's here, not all of it that
you see now.
When we talk about the land here, how big is it?
It's about 1400 acres. It's big. And it's really a village now. It's a township, a village.
(27:14):
But we just had a few plots of land back then and the locals had started creating roads
and whatever. But there are only 72 neem trees here basically. It was really barren because
this land is on the Deccan Plateau. It gets extremely hot in summer and it wasn't getting
very good rains either during the monsoon time. So very barren, poor soils, I mean, overfarmed,
(27:41):
a lot of erosion. So in pretty terrible state.
So we started coming here in 2015 and by March 2017, Daji had moved here. I also moved here
and a number of other people and the work really started. But what's interesting about
(28:02):
Kanna is that the first work that started here was to meditate. Not to start on the
environmental project straight away, but to come and meditate, to create the atmosphere
through that meditation, that loving atmosphere which trees, birds, everything responds to,
not just human beings. So we started with that and then the work of improving the soil,
(28:31):
creating water bodies, planting trees so that the water table would rise, developing composting
and biochar and other ways to improve the fertility of the soil. Because if the soil
is improved, even just that one thing, it's a sink for carbon, the soil. And once the
(28:56):
soil is improved and trees are growing and microclimates are forming and microecology
systems are developing, then we can combat climate change. It's not an impossibility.
It's just a matter of creating that lifestyle, that not only sustainable but regenerative
lifestyle that allows the carbon cycles on the earth to be in balance. And that's what
(29:24):
we've done. And experts have come in from all over the world to help with that. We have
water harvesting, we have water purification using natural systems, we have solar, we have
power. We don't need to be on the grid effectively. We have enough power developed here. I mean,
(29:47):
there's sun beyond imagination here in Telangana, so there's enough sun to create solar power.
We have rainforests in this so-called dry environment. We have endemic species. We have
a tissue culture lab that is saving rare species that are going extinct in other parts of the
(30:11):
country. So many things have happened here. We have cottage industries like pottery. One
lady from Cleveland, Ohio, who's a master potter came and set up the pottery studio.
Many people have come and done things. We eat a lot of our own vegetables. We have horticulture
(30:31):
products here that you can buy, health products. We have a wellness center. I mean, we also
have a medical center which is needed, but we have a wellness center for Ayurveda and
acupuncture and other modalities. We have a yoga program, an accredited yoga school
through the government of India. It's all happening here and that's all happened basically
(30:52):
since 2017. Wow. And the education as well. So there's a school? There are three schools.
Three schools. Yeah. And there will be a university eventually. It's just being built step by
step by step. And when you come here, you realize with a volunteer base like we have,
(31:12):
it's not so difficult. Yes, it requires a lot of hard work from a lot of people, but
when everyone's willing to do it because they believe in the planet, they believe in living
a lifestyle that's heartful. Is that the core of it? What's at the core of this, the heartfulness?
(31:34):
Is it to unite humanity or what is the core? Yeah, it's to unite humanity and it's for
humanity to live in tune with nature. So first to be one of our maxims, one of our core tenets
in heartful living is to be simple so as to be identical with nature. That means simplifying
(31:58):
your lifestyle, simplifying first of all what's going on inside here, which means if you have
a lot of intense emotions and complexities and dramas in your life, that's got to go.
Otherwise all the thought pollution is going to create the outside pollution. We have to
start with ourselves. We start with ourselves, we get to a state of purity and functionality
(32:22):
I would call it as human beings so that we can be caring and loving and kind and giving
to each other, to the planet, to other species. And then we start to work on the externals
as well. So it's all part of heartful living. And the more you practice, the better you
(32:43):
are able to deal with challenges, to find solutions to things. I mean some of the solutions
that we've found to grow, like even the foresters who came here when Darjeet said, we want to
plant a rainforest in Karnal. And you know it's a desert, right? It's a barren desert.
And he says we'll plant a rainforest. And they're like, not possible. And he says again,
(33:09):
we'll plant a rainforest. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. It took him four goes to get
their minds open enough to say, okay, we'll try if you really want to. Because we all
have our limitations, we all have our views, our worldviews, our prejudices, our beliefs
about what's possible. That's what changes with the practice. You know, our neurocircuitries
(33:34):
are pretty fixed because of our upbringings, our cultures, our beliefs, et cetera. What
we're unraveling through these practices is that dogmatic fixed nature of belief. We're
dissolving it through our practice of heartfulness cleaning so that we can start to see things
(33:59):
in new ways. Be more like little kids who are just so full of wonder and awe. That's
really what it's all about. Opening our potential. And so Karnal is an example of just the love
that's been poured into this place and the potential that can arise when that love is
(34:22):
there. Trees respond to it. Every time we plant a tree, the people who do it sit and
meditate with that tree. You know, welcoming it to this place. So beautiful. That's why
it sounds like a dream to me. With scientific research that's being done in the heartfulness
(34:45):
way or in Karnal itself, is there lots of that happening?
Yes, there's a lot happening. Not as much as some other organizations that are fully
research focused. I mean, we have a research wing, but it's a fairly recent thing. There
are other organizations like HeartMath that's been doing this for 30 years. We're much more
(35:06):
recent, but the results that are coming from our research are really quite phenomenal.
The head of research from HeartMath, Dr. Roland McCratty, was here at the beginning of this
year for a big event that was happening. He actually used his instruments, the HeartMath
instruments, to measure heart coherence during that seminar. Of course, the readings were
(35:34):
way above the normals. There's a lot of research that shows, when you mentioned unity before,
that human beings become united. That's coherence. When our hearts are in sync instead of all
at odds with each other. It doesn't mean that we all have to become the same. The people
(35:57):
at that conference where he measured that, there were Christians, there were Jews, there
were Muslims, there were Hindus, there were Jains, there were Sikhs, there were atheists.
It was everybody coming for an interfaith gathering. Yet, when we all sat and meditated
together with the transmission, the coherence just went like that. We were all together,
(36:21):
the hearts reunited without anybody having to change their beliefs or their looks or
their clothing or the food they eat or anything else.
It's powerful. I would pause here. I'd love to go more into the religious spirituality,
but I think that will lead us to another half an hour. I won't go there today. We're going
(36:45):
to wrap up soon. For you, what's your role now in heartfulness and what's next for you,
Elizabeth?
First and foremost, I'm a practitioner. That's the real... because we're all evolving and
any work that I do in the organization is only within that framework and that context.
(37:06):
I'm also a trainer, so I'm available to give meditation sessions. We do a lot of corporate
sessions as well in Australia and group sessions. I also write. I'm the editor of Heartfulness
magazine and I work a lot on the books, including the old books of Lullaby and Babaji. They're
(37:29):
translations from Urdu into English and getting those published. I love that work because
I'm still in many ways a researcher myself. I really, really get a lot from that and enjoy
it. I'm also hoping in Australia because I divide my time between here in Kaurna and
my family in Australia, especially now that I have a grandchild. There's a much bigger
(37:54):
pool back there. But also because I feel like Australians are very open, maybe not to religion.
Like myself, I grew up in an atheist family. Why? Because religion hasn't done a lot for
Australia in many ways. The traditional religions, I mean, not the founders of the religions,
(38:19):
there's beauty in religion, but the way our society has been set up and the way indigenous
beliefs were just completely ignored. Many new people coming in from different parts
of the world are now starting to establish their presence as well. I think it's a very
(38:42):
fertile place for a spiritual system that is real, that is not based on dogma, that
is just based on pure existence, living in tune with the natural world, in tune with
each other, for harmony, et cetera. I want to be a part of that. I think that's important.
(39:08):
I think we have been lucky enough that indigenous Australians prayed for peace for so many thousands
of years. As a result, we've been much luckier than some parts of the world where it's been
a lot more violent and more focused. But we still have our issues. We still have our prejudices
(39:28):
and we still have a long way to go for people in the culture there to all be happy. There's
so much mental illness and so many people who are struggling and suffering. I think
if there's anything we can do, it's to bring simple practices and simple skills to people
(39:52):
so that they can support themselves and get help with that stuff. That's what I'm interested
in doing.
Yeah. Thank you. I think that's a beautiful place to end. I look forward to staying in
touch throughout the journey.
Elizabeth, thank you, sister.
Thank you for all the work you do. Me too, Rachel. It's lovely to talk with you.
(40:13):
I hope you gained some insight from this interesting conversation with Elizabeth about the heartful
way and how it is contributing toward a consciousness shift in humanity across the world. Personally,
I've really benefited from the heartfulness way and resonate deeply with the essence of
the teaching to connect with ourselves, others, and interact with the environment around us
(40:34):
through the light and love in our hearts. My two weeks spent at Kana is a time I will
not forget and I'm sure I will not realize the full impact it had on me until sometime
in the future. If you are interested in learning more about heartfulness or seeing if there
is an individual trainer or group session in your part of the world, you can look at
(40:54):
the Heartfulness website, which I will link to in the episode notes.
There are also many books published about heartfulness. I asked Elizabeth after the
episode if she could recommend a good place to start. She suggested the book Designing
Destiny written by Kamlesh Patel, the current spiritual guide for heartfulness, who is also
(41:15):
known as Daji, which means father's brother. I will also link to this book in the episode
notes. Thank you for taking the time to listen. Please feel free to rate the podcast and share
with any friends who this may interest.
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