June 16, 2025 • 16 mins
This recap episode unpacks a discussion between Joe Rogan and Oliver Anthony, primarily focusing on the latter's unexpected rise to fame with "Rich Men North of Richmond." They explore themes of authenticity versus commercialism in the music industry, highlighting Anthony's commitment to independent production and his resistance to traditional labels. The sources also examine societal issues such as mass manipulation in media and politics, the importance of nature and community for mental well-being, and the power of individuals to effect change in a digitally connected world. Furthermore, the documents provide contextual details about Anthony's recording processes, his evolving perspective on fame, and future initiatives aimed at supporting independent artists and fostering genuine human connection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap, and before we get going, you can
now access the full Google Notebook with a mind map,
timeline and briefing document by clicking the link in the
description. Our source material today is the
transcript from a recent conversation between Joe Rogan
and Oliver Anthony. Yeah, quite a conversation.
And our mission here really is to cut through, you know, the
(00:20):
hours of tape We want to unpack,the key insights, those moments
that maybe surprise people and the bigger things that came up.
Exactly, giving you a shortcut to what really mattered in the
in that discussion. Think of it like the highlights
reel, but with a bit more depth.We're looking at everything from
Oliver Anthony's pretty unique ride with fame and the music
(00:40):
business. All the way through to those
broader chats they had about society, media, politics, and
yeah, even dipping into MMA likethey often do.
So let's get into it. OK, so one of the first things,
maybe the most obvious, is Anthony being back on the show
so soon. Right.
He even said he thought it'd be years, if ever.
Definitely wasn't expecting to be back that quickly.
(01:02):
And that kind of surprise, it really frames the whole
conversation about how fast everything happened for him
initially. They went right back to the
start, didn't they? The Richmond North of Richmond
origin story. Adam Curry gets the song, shares
it with Joe and that reaction inthe green room.
Yeah, the quote was just, oh, shit, Like an immediate gut
feeling that this was something different, something big.
(01:23):
Totally captures it and they really dug into how it was
recorded, which I found interesting.
Not some polished studio thing, no.
Not at all. It was like recorded live in a
house in West Virginia with musicians like Billy Contras.
Very intentionally raw. Yeah, they mentioned no click
tracks, hardly any editing, justtrying to get that classic sort
(01:45):
of live authentic sound. Which you know in today's music
world that's a statement in itself.
It really double S down on that rawness people seem to connect
with. It feels well fundamental to who
he. Is and you saw that connection
translate almost instantly into massive success.
He sounded frankly stunned talking about that first big
check the. $800,000 one Yeah. And his first instinct kind of
(02:07):
telling was put it all in a nonprofit.
But Rogan jumped in there, didn't he?
Based on his own, let's say lessthan stellar experiences.
Right. He strongly advised against it.
Basically said, look, keep the money for now.
Figure out how you want to do good with it directly.
Stay in control. He seemed wary of the
bureaucracy. Maybe potential misuse he's seen
before. Seems Anthony listened, he
(02:29):
mentioned he's recorded what, 6 new songs since Scornful Woman
and he sounds pretty happy with them.
Plans to release them. Yeah, he's still creating.
And he also seemed genuinely surprised the initial wave
didn't just crash. You know, the whole 15 minutes
of fame idea. He thought it might be
temporary, yeah, but the streamskept coming.
The shows were selling out. It's like the momentum kept
going, almost catching him off guard again.
(02:50):
And that whole experience, managing that sudden fame while
trying to stay well himself, that leads right into a really
central theme of the whole episode, doesn't it?
Absolutely authenticity. Trying to be real in a world
that often feels, you know, pretty manufactured.
Rogan was hammering that point home, calling Anthony a real
working man, saying you can't fake that.
(03:13):
He got specific to the trucker hat, the jeans ripped from work,
not fashionably ripped, the realoil stains.
His argument was basically people are desperate for that.
They can spot the fake stuff. But it wasn't just about being
authentic, it was the struggle of handling it in the public
eye. Anthony was open about how
uncomfortable he is with attention sometimes.
(03:33):
Yeah, that feeling of hey, look at me.
He wants to avoid that said, he fights the urge to post online,
even goes dark sometimes. And Rogan, you know, having been
in that spotlight for so long, he really seemed to get that,
that balancing act between having a public profile and
keeping some sense of yourself, some privacy.
This whole tension, authenticityversus the machine, it really
(03:54):
comes to a head when they talk about the music industry itself.
His strategy seems very deliberate.
Super deliberate. Keep the team small, just Draven
from radio WV, maybe a couple others, actively avoiding the
usual managers, publicists and the whole apparatus.
It's like a conscious rejection of the standard playbook, and
Rogan was all for it, basically saying a lot of those industry
(04:17):
jobs are just gatekeepers, maybeeven harmful to an artist's
independence. And then they hit that specific
example that really illustrates the friction, the whole thing
with the scornful woman reactionvideos.
Right. OK.
So Anthony owns 100% of his publishing.
The songwriting right, which is huge, gives him control, but you
still need an administrator to collect royalties globally.
(04:40):
In his case, Warner Chapel, theytake their cut 9% standard
enough, but Anthony wanted to use his ownership to help the
people who boosted him early on.So he asks Warner Chapel, can we
whitelist like 30 or 40 people, The ones who made those early
reaction videos for Richmond? Let them keep the money from
reacting to scornful woman. A way to give back, right?
(05:00):
Share the success with the community that helped build it.
But Warner Chappell's response was basically, no, we can't do
that. It's for your protection, which
sounds protective. Maybe, But the implication was
clear. They wanted their 9% cut from
those potential reaction videos.Yeah.
And Anthony ended up spending, what, 4 grand on a lawyer just
to get those specific people whitelisted for only 30 days?
(05:23):
It's a perfect little story, isn't it?
Shows the industry's focus on control on the bottom line.
Maybe not really caring about the organic community stuff.
And Anthony's reaction to that friction releasing scornful
woman through sound on. Tik Tok's distribution platform
yeah, it gave him more flexibility, let him sidestep
some traditional gates still keeps 100% of his rights.
Master's in publishing. It's him using the new tools
(05:45):
available. It really highlights that clash,
doesn't it, between the old industry model and how music can
just explode organically now. Totally, And his success, like
Richmond hitting number one against songs with huge
marketing budgets, It's like a reminder that people together
still have power to lift something up, even if it's just
for a moment. The machine isn't unbeatable.
(06:07):
That whole navigating systems thing, finding your identity, it
felt like a Natural Bridge to where the conversation went
next, looking at society and politics more broadly.
Yeah, they were trying to make sense of the, you know, the
general feeling of confusion outthere.
One point was about politics becoming this easy identity
marker for people. Like if you're feeling lost or
(06:28):
disconnected, latching onto a political tribe gives you that
sense of belonging. Almost like being a die hard
sports fan. Exactly like that, that tribal
we won feeling. Even if you're just watching.
It fulfills a need apparently. They also brought up the private
prison system. The critique presented was that
it essentially turns people intoa business commodity.
(06:50):
Right. Creating this incentive to keep
the system fed, maybe even leading to harsher laws to
ensure a steady supply of customers seeing it purely
through a profit lens. And they touched briefly and
partially on the Harvard admissions lawsuits.
The argument being discussed waswhether focusing on non academic
factors made it harder for Asianapplicants, potentially as a way
(07:10):
to manage outcomes for high achievers.
They noted the broadness of the term Asian in that context.
And then there was the whole issue of manipulation,
disinformation, the idea that fake stories get spread around,
sometimes specifically to undermine people who question
things or look into conspiracies.
Yeah, which led to them stressing how important it is to
(07:30):
try and verify stuff. They mentioned Jamie's role on
Rogan show that real time fact checking aspect.
They also got into organized protests.
The anger you see mentioned, claims of coordination, paying
people, pallets of bricks, bussing people in.
And argued that stuff like burning cop cars probably not
the most productive way to make your point.
(07:51):
It undermines the cause. Yeah, and they pointed out the
sort of confusion you sometimes see.
The example given was someone protesting in the US, burning
things, wearing a mask but holding a Mexican flag.
Like, who or what is the actual target here?
It's just maybe the anger is there, but the focus isn't
always clear. Which led into that zebra
mentality idea referencing Jordan Peterson.
(08:12):
Right from maps of meaning, the idea that people, especially in
politics, will kind of adjust their views, change their
stripes to fit in with their group, for safety, for identity.
They used Hillary Clinton's pastborder stance as an example,
suggesting it might have been shaped by focus groups even
describing it as MAGA then MAGA at the time, implying it was
about reflecting perceived votersentiment.
(08:34):
You could feel the sense from them that people feel like
they're being played against each other.
They sort of speculated the groups that seemed totally
opposed, like maybe patriotic cosplayers and Antifa.
Might actually share some deep underlying anger about a system
they both feel is right, even ifthey express it in completely
opposite, often hostile ways. Exactly.
(08:55):
And the thought was maybe that shared rebellious energy needs
to be recognized somehow, channeled differently.
They even floated music as a potential bridge, something that
can cut across those divides. Interesting idea.
And then another shift. They went from society and
politics to science, health, nature, starting with dog food
of all things. Yeah, typical JRE flow.
(09:15):
It made sense. Rogan talked about switching his
dog Marshall to real food, like Farmer's Dog or Maeve, and
seeing huge health improvements.Better coat, better weight.
Yeah, it was an analogy for us, right?
Processed stuff with a long shelf life might keep you going,
but real whole food is what helps you thrive.
And that's spun into modern chickens.
(09:35):
Comparing pictures from 1957 to 1978, the size difference is
wild. It really is.
They linked it to genetics. Mentioned a specific gene study
from 2010 about growth but also maybe diet.
Just shows how much we've changed our food sources.
That visual of the 1978 chicken looking like a soccer ball.
And they even threw in that bit of history about the Pope
(09:57):
banning 4 legged meat on fast days like 1000 years ago.
Right. Inadvertently pushing people
towards chicken and fish for centuries, setting the stage for
breeding bigger birds later on. There was also that quick aside
about the Catholic Church's celibacy rule, just sort of
highlighting how old rules can have long lasting effects.
But circling back to health, they talked about the current
health crisis, mentioning RobertKennedy Junior's campaign focus.
(10:20):
Yeah, his emphasis on toxins, pharmaceutical companies, the
vaccine schedule they mentioned.Robert Malone described him as
an mRNA patent owner who's been called names, but as someone
qualified who was apparently involved in administration
health discussions. And Anthony seemed really drawn
to RFK Junior's idea of a healing center inspired by a
trip to Italy. Places where people reconnect
(10:42):
with nature. Learn to grow food.
Totally Anthony's own plan to buy land and create a space for
people to unscrew their minds, get back to nature.
It fits right in. The core idea there seems to be
nature as this constant ordered system, something real and
grounding, providing a necessarycontrast to all the modern man
made chaos crucial for mental health, they argued.
(11:05):
And from the natural world, theyjumped right into the digital
One AI. Yeah, talking about data
siphoning, the phrase used was AI, sucking all the humanity out
of us by learning from everything we do online.
The idea that our interactions feed it make it smarter, but
maybe we lose something in the process, externalizing our own
thinking or creativity. Especially when it came to
music, both of them seemed pretty skeptical that AI could
(11:28):
really replicate true human creativity there.
For sure, they acknowledged AI can make technically good stuff,
catchy stuff. The Drake AI song came up.
But that raw lived experience, the vulnerability they felt, AI
just can't get there. And they used Scornful woman as
the counterexample. Written super fast, like 2-3
(11:48):
minutes around a kitchen table. Just Anthony Draven, Joey
pouring out shared feelings about difficult relationships.
That spontaneous shared human moment, That's what they argued
AI misses. You could hear it in that clip
you played earlier, right? That raw edge.
Definitely, and they also pointed to live performance as
something inherently human, thatenergy exchange that AI can't
(12:10):
replicate. And interestingly, Anthony's
long term goal isn't just about his own success.
He talked about wanting to help other artists navigate the
industry, maybe even bypass the predatory.
Parts yeah, potentially startinga non predatory label or
festival. Talented people with small
followings and giving them a platform mentorship.
It's framed as bigger than himself.
He literally said he wants to see the traditional machine
(12:33):
crumble not just by his success,but by empowering lots of others
to succeed independently too. Like a ripple effect.
He sees his own breakthrough as kind of a collective win, a
middle finger to the old way, showing what artists and fans
can do together. Yeah, leveraging that moment,
that energy to try and shift things more broadly by
decentralizing the power and. Then boom, the MMA conversation.
(12:54):
Classic JRE pivot but you know it's still connected.
It was another way to look at human drive limits pressure.
They profiled some fighters. Mirab Devalishvili.
His cardio sounds absolutely insane.
Experts apparently can't explainit.
Maybe genetic, but also just relentless drive.
Yeah, his fight against Somali was mentioned, then Ilya Tapuria
knocking out top guys like Volkanovsky, Holloway seemingly
(13:18):
with ease. Perfect technique.
Huge. Confidence and Alex Pereira,
that quick rise after being a kickboxing legend.
The touch of death, becoming a two division UFC champ so fast,
dealing with injuries, learning grappling defense with Glover T
Sara. Remarkable story.
But they didn't just focus on the glory, they talked about the
toll, physical, mental, how hardhe is for fighter to transition
(13:40):
out when their whole identity iswrapped up in.
It pointing to guys like GSP as a healthier model still training
intensely but not taking fight damage.
Or Sean Strickland being smart about planning for retirement
doing seminars. And that anecdote about GS PS
coach Fiero Sahabi paying sparring partners to actually
try and knock George out? Sounds brutal, but the point was
(14:01):
realism, wasn't it? You have to train for the real
danger to be truly prepared. Exactly.
They described high level fighting as almost choreographed
but in real time. Muscle memory prediction.
Incredible skill and you have toappreciate the work that goes
into reaching that level. Rogan tied it back to something
primal, didn't he? The monkey part of our brain
fighting is just raw. Everyone gets it on some level,
(14:24):
unlike, say, cricket. Yeah, even mention things like
chicken and dogfight or horriblestuff, obviously, but as
related, maybe darker expressions of that same basic
human instinct, like the Colosseum, but modern.
And then they sort of looped back to where they started in a
way. Managing attention, fame.
Whether you're a musician or a fighter, that constant stream of
(14:45):
messages, people recognizing you, even friends acting weird
about your success. It's a challenge trying to
handle it without becoming a puppet, as they put it, or
someone just chasing validation.It seemed like a struggle both
Rogan and Anthony understood deeply.
So stepping back from all that, quite a journey through one
conversation, what are the big takeaways?
(15:05):
Well, I think that core tension is huge, genuine human
experience versus these big, complex, sometimes artificial
systems we navigate, whether it's music, politics, media.
Yeah, and Anthony's story becomes the sort of modern
fable, right? Choosing authenticity,
independence, using new tools topush back against the old ways.
Absolutely, and it really highlights this deep craving
(15:26):
people seem to have for something real.
You see it in the reaction to his music that turned towards
nature, the search for identity,even the raw appeal of combat
sports. It touches on so much individual
versus group, grassroots power, the weirdness of fame.
Definitely. So maybe a final thought for
you, the listener to chew on to talk about this potential
window, this chance for people to use their collective power
(15:48):
against established systems. So thinking about that in your
own world, how can you maybe support genuine expression or
push back against the fake stuff, or even just find those
real connections, nature, community, creativity that help
you stay grounded in all this modern chaos?
Something to think about. Thanks for joining us on this
deep dive.
Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap, and before we get going, you can
now access the full Google Notebook with a mind map,
timeline and briefing document by clicking the link in the
description. Our source material today is the
transcript from a recent conversation between Joe Rogan
and Oliver Anthony. Yeah, quite a conversation.
And our mission here really is to cut through, you know, the
(00:20):
hours of tape We want to unpack,the key insights, those moments
that maybe surprise people and the bigger things that came up.
Exactly, giving you a shortcut to what really mattered in the
in that discussion. Think of it like the highlights
reel, but with a bit more depth.We're looking at everything from
Oliver Anthony's pretty unique ride with fame and the music
(00:40):
business. All the way through to those
broader chats they had about society, media, politics, and
yeah, even dipping into MMA likethey often do.
So let's get into it. OK, so one of the first things,
maybe the most obvious, is Anthony being back on the show
so soon. Right.
He even said he thought it'd be years, if ever.
Definitely wasn't expecting to be back that quickly.
(01:02):
And that kind of surprise, it really frames the whole
conversation about how fast everything happened for him
initially. They went right back to the
start, didn't they? The Richmond North of Richmond
origin story. Adam Curry gets the song, shares
it with Joe and that reaction inthe green room.
Yeah, the quote was just, oh, shit, Like an immediate gut
feeling that this was something different, something big.
(01:23):
Totally captures it and they really dug into how it was
recorded, which I found interesting.
Not some polished studio thing, no.
Not at all. It was like recorded live in a
house in West Virginia with musicians like Billy Contras.
Very intentionally raw. Yeah, they mentioned no click
tracks, hardly any editing, justtrying to get that classic sort
(01:45):
of live authentic sound. Which you know in today's music
world that's a statement in itself.
It really double S down on that rawness people seem to connect
with. It feels well fundamental to who
he. Is and you saw that connection
translate almost instantly into massive success.
He sounded frankly stunned talking about that first big
check the. $800,000 one Yeah. And his first instinct kind of
(02:07):
telling was put it all in a nonprofit.
But Rogan jumped in there, didn't he?
Based on his own, let's say lessthan stellar experiences.
Right. He strongly advised against it.
Basically said, look, keep the money for now.
Figure out how you want to do good with it directly.
Stay in control. He seemed wary of the
bureaucracy. Maybe potential misuse he's seen
before. Seems Anthony listened, he
(02:29):
mentioned he's recorded what, 6 new songs since Scornful Woman
and he sounds pretty happy with them.
Plans to release them. Yeah, he's still creating.
And he also seemed genuinely surprised the initial wave
didn't just crash. You know, the whole 15 minutes
of fame idea. He thought it might be
temporary, yeah, but the streamskept coming.
The shows were selling out. It's like the momentum kept
going, almost catching him off guard again.
(02:50):
And that whole experience, managing that sudden fame while
trying to stay well himself, that leads right into a really
central theme of the whole episode, doesn't it?
Absolutely authenticity. Trying to be real in a world
that often feels, you know, pretty manufactured.
Rogan was hammering that point home, calling Anthony a real
working man, saying you can't fake that.
(03:13):
He got specific to the trucker hat, the jeans ripped from work,
not fashionably ripped, the realoil stains.
His argument was basically people are desperate for that.
They can spot the fake stuff. But it wasn't just about being
authentic, it was the struggle of handling it in the public
eye. Anthony was open about how
uncomfortable he is with attention sometimes.
(03:33):
Yeah, that feeling of hey, look at me.
He wants to avoid that said, he fights the urge to post online,
even goes dark sometimes. And Rogan, you know, having been
in that spotlight for so long, he really seemed to get that,
that balancing act between having a public profile and
keeping some sense of yourself, some privacy.
This whole tension, authenticityversus the machine, it really
(03:54):
comes to a head when they talk about the music industry itself.
His strategy seems very deliberate.
Super deliberate. Keep the team small, just Draven
from radio WV, maybe a couple others, actively avoiding the
usual managers, publicists and the whole apparatus.
It's like a conscious rejection of the standard playbook, and
Rogan was all for it, basically saying a lot of those industry
(04:17):
jobs are just gatekeepers, maybeeven harmful to an artist's
independence. And then they hit that specific
example that really illustrates the friction, the whole thing
with the scornful woman reactionvideos.
Right. OK.
So Anthony owns 100% of his publishing.
The songwriting right, which is huge, gives him control, but you
still need an administrator to collect royalties globally.
(04:40):
In his case, Warner Chapel, theytake their cut 9% standard
enough, but Anthony wanted to use his ownership to help the
people who boosted him early on.So he asks Warner Chapel, can we
whitelist like 30 or 40 people, The ones who made those early
reaction videos for Richmond? Let them keep the money from
reacting to scornful woman. A way to give back, right?
(05:00):
Share the success with the community that helped build it.
But Warner Chappell's response was basically, no, we can't do
that. It's for your protection, which
sounds protective. Maybe, But the implication was
clear. They wanted their 9% cut from
those potential reaction videos.Yeah.
And Anthony ended up spending, what, 4 grand on a lawyer just
to get those specific people whitelisted for only 30 days?
(05:23):
It's a perfect little story, isn't it?
Shows the industry's focus on control on the bottom line.
Maybe not really caring about the organic community stuff.
And Anthony's reaction to that friction releasing scornful
woman through sound on. Tik Tok's distribution platform
yeah, it gave him more flexibility, let him sidestep
some traditional gates still keeps 100% of his rights.
Master's in publishing. It's him using the new tools
(05:45):
available. It really highlights that clash,
doesn't it, between the old industry model and how music can
just explode organically now. Totally, And his success, like
Richmond hitting number one against songs with huge
marketing budgets, It's like a reminder that people together
still have power to lift something up, even if it's just
for a moment. The machine isn't unbeatable.
(06:07):
That whole navigating systems thing, finding your identity, it
felt like a Natural Bridge to where the conversation went
next, looking at society and politics more broadly.
Yeah, they were trying to make sense of the, you know, the
general feeling of confusion outthere.
One point was about politics becoming this easy identity
marker for people. Like if you're feeling lost or
(06:28):
disconnected, latching onto a political tribe gives you that
sense of belonging. Almost like being a die hard
sports fan. Exactly like that, that tribal
we won feeling. Even if you're just watching.
It fulfills a need apparently. They also brought up the private
prison system. The critique presented was that
it essentially turns people intoa business commodity.
(06:50):
Right. Creating this incentive to keep
the system fed, maybe even leading to harsher laws to
ensure a steady supply of customers seeing it purely
through a profit lens. And they touched briefly and
partially on the Harvard admissions lawsuits.
The argument being discussed waswhether focusing on non academic
factors made it harder for Asianapplicants, potentially as a way
(07:10):
to manage outcomes for high achievers.
They noted the broadness of the term Asian in that context.
And then there was the whole issue of manipulation,
disinformation, the idea that fake stories get spread around,
sometimes specifically to undermine people who question
things or look into conspiracies.
Yeah, which led to them stressing how important it is to
(07:30):
try and verify stuff. They mentioned Jamie's role on
Rogan show that real time fact checking aspect.
They also got into organized protests.
The anger you see mentioned, claims of coordination, paying
people, pallets of bricks, bussing people in.
And argued that stuff like burning cop cars probably not
the most productive way to make your point.
(07:51):
It undermines the cause. Yeah, and they pointed out the
sort of confusion you sometimes see.
The example given was someone protesting in the US, burning
things, wearing a mask but holding a Mexican flag.
Like, who or what is the actual target here?
It's just maybe the anger is there, but the focus isn't
always clear. Which led into that zebra
mentality idea referencing Jordan Peterson.
(08:12):
Right from maps of meaning, the idea that people, especially in
politics, will kind of adjust their views, change their
stripes to fit in with their group, for safety, for identity.
They used Hillary Clinton's pastborder stance as an example,
suggesting it might have been shaped by focus groups even
describing it as MAGA then MAGA at the time, implying it was
about reflecting perceived votersentiment.
(08:34):
You could feel the sense from them that people feel like
they're being played against each other.
They sort of speculated the groups that seemed totally
opposed, like maybe patriotic cosplayers and Antifa.
Might actually share some deep underlying anger about a system
they both feel is right, even ifthey express it in completely
opposite, often hostile ways. Exactly.
(08:55):
And the thought was maybe that shared rebellious energy needs
to be recognized somehow, channeled differently.
They even floated music as a potential bridge, something that
can cut across those divides. Interesting idea.
And then another shift. They went from society and
politics to science, health, nature, starting with dog food
of all things. Yeah, typical JRE flow.
(09:15):
It made sense. Rogan talked about switching his
dog Marshall to real food, like Farmer's Dog or Maeve, and
seeing huge health improvements.Better coat, better weight.
Yeah, it was an analogy for us, right?
Processed stuff with a long shelf life might keep you going,
but real whole food is what helps you thrive.
And that's spun into modern chickens.
(09:35):
Comparing pictures from 1957 to 1978, the size difference is
wild. It really is.
They linked it to genetics. Mentioned a specific gene study
from 2010 about growth but also maybe diet.
Just shows how much we've changed our food sources.
That visual of the 1978 chicken looking like a soccer ball.
And they even threw in that bit of history about the Pope
(09:57):
banning 4 legged meat on fast days like 1000 years ago.
Right. Inadvertently pushing people
towards chicken and fish for centuries, setting the stage for
breeding bigger birds later on. There was also that quick aside
about the Catholic Church's celibacy rule, just sort of
highlighting how old rules can have long lasting effects.
But circling back to health, they talked about the current
health crisis, mentioning RobertKennedy Junior's campaign focus.
(10:20):
Yeah, his emphasis on toxins, pharmaceutical companies, the
vaccine schedule they mentioned.Robert Malone described him as
an mRNA patent owner who's been called names, but as someone
qualified who was apparently involved in administration
health discussions. And Anthony seemed really drawn
to RFK Junior's idea of a healing center inspired by a
trip to Italy. Places where people reconnect
(10:42):
with nature. Learn to grow food.
Totally Anthony's own plan to buy land and create a space for
people to unscrew their minds, get back to nature.
It fits right in. The core idea there seems to be
nature as this constant ordered system, something real and
grounding, providing a necessarycontrast to all the modern man
made chaos crucial for mental health, they argued.
(11:05):
And from the natural world, theyjumped right into the digital
One AI. Yeah, talking about data
siphoning, the phrase used was AI, sucking all the humanity out
of us by learning from everything we do online.
The idea that our interactions feed it make it smarter, but
maybe we lose something in the process, externalizing our own
thinking or creativity. Especially when it came to
music, both of them seemed pretty skeptical that AI could
(11:28):
really replicate true human creativity there.
For sure, they acknowledged AI can make technically good stuff,
catchy stuff. The Drake AI song came up.
But that raw lived experience, the vulnerability they felt, AI
just can't get there. And they used Scornful woman as
the counterexample. Written super fast, like 2-3
(11:48):
minutes around a kitchen table. Just Anthony Draven, Joey
pouring out shared feelings about difficult relationships.
That spontaneous shared human moment, That's what they argued
AI misses. You could hear it in that clip
you played earlier, right? That raw edge.
Definitely, and they also pointed to live performance as
something inherently human, thatenergy exchange that AI can't
(12:10):
replicate. And interestingly, Anthony's
long term goal isn't just about his own success.
He talked about wanting to help other artists navigate the
industry, maybe even bypass the predatory.
Parts yeah, potentially startinga non predatory label or
festival. Talented people with small
followings and giving them a platform mentorship.
It's framed as bigger than himself.
He literally said he wants to see the traditional machine
(12:33):
crumble not just by his success,but by empowering lots of others
to succeed independently too. Like a ripple effect.
He sees his own breakthrough as kind of a collective win, a
middle finger to the old way, showing what artists and fans
can do together. Yeah, leveraging that moment,
that energy to try and shift things more broadly by
decentralizing the power and. Then boom, the MMA conversation.
(12:54):
Classic JRE pivot but you know it's still connected.
It was another way to look at human drive limits pressure.
They profiled some fighters. Mirab Devalishvili.
His cardio sounds absolutely insane.
Experts apparently can't explainit.
Maybe genetic, but also just relentless drive.
Yeah, his fight against Somali was mentioned, then Ilya Tapuria
knocking out top guys like Volkanovsky, Holloway seemingly
(13:18):
with ease. Perfect technique.
Huge. Confidence and Alex Pereira,
that quick rise after being a kickboxing legend.
The touch of death, becoming a two division UFC champ so fast,
dealing with injuries, learning grappling defense with Glover T
Sara. Remarkable story.
But they didn't just focus on the glory, they talked about the
toll, physical, mental, how hardhe is for fighter to transition
(13:40):
out when their whole identity iswrapped up in.
It pointing to guys like GSP as a healthier model still training
intensely but not taking fight damage.
Or Sean Strickland being smart about planning for retirement
doing seminars. And that anecdote about GS PS
coach Fiero Sahabi paying sparring partners to actually
try and knock George out? Sounds brutal, but the point was
(14:01):
realism, wasn't it? You have to train for the real
danger to be truly prepared. Exactly.
They described high level fighting as almost choreographed
but in real time. Muscle memory prediction.
Incredible skill and you have toappreciate the work that goes
into reaching that level. Rogan tied it back to something
primal, didn't he? The monkey part of our brain
fighting is just raw. Everyone gets it on some level,
(14:24):
unlike, say, cricket. Yeah, even mention things like
chicken and dogfight or horriblestuff, obviously, but as
related, maybe darker expressions of that same basic
human instinct, like the Colosseum, but modern.
And then they sort of looped back to where they started in a
way. Managing attention, fame.
Whether you're a musician or a fighter, that constant stream of
(14:45):
messages, people recognizing you, even friends acting weird
about your success. It's a challenge trying to
handle it without becoming a puppet, as they put it, or
someone just chasing validation.It seemed like a struggle both
Rogan and Anthony understood deeply.
So stepping back from all that, quite a journey through one
conversation, what are the big takeaways?
(15:05):
Well, I think that core tension is huge, genuine human
experience versus these big, complex, sometimes artificial
systems we navigate, whether it's music, politics, media.
Yeah, and Anthony's story becomes the sort of modern
fable, right? Choosing authenticity,
independence, using new tools topush back against the old ways.
Absolutely, and it really highlights this deep craving
(15:26):
people seem to have for something real.
You see it in the reaction to his music that turned towards
nature, the search for identity,even the raw appeal of combat
sports. It touches on so much individual
versus group, grassroots power, the weirdness of fame.
Definitely. So maybe a final thought for
you, the listener to chew on to talk about this potential
window, this chance for people to use their collective power
(15:48):
against established systems. So thinking about that in your
own world, how can you maybe support genuine expression or
push back against the fake stuff, or even just find those
real connections, nature, community, creativity that help
you stay grounded in all this modern chaos?
Something to think about. Thanks for joining us on this
deep dive.
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