Laura Ritchie's journey from corporate media executive to real estate mogul exemplifies the power of creativity and determination in building wealth. Starting in 2017 with a simple side hustle, Laura leveraged family connections, thrift store furniture, and a willingness to take calculated risks to rapidly build an 85-unit portfolio now worth approximately $14 million.
What makes Laura's approach remarkable is her innovative financing strategies. She shares how she transformed basic apartments into furnished rentals with nothing more than spray paint and thrift store finds, doubling her returns with minimal investment. Her most impressive feat? Purchasing a seven-unit property for $350,000, improving it over four months, then refinancing to not only pay back the seller but also pocket $90,000 at closing. That property, now worth $1.1 million, became the foundation for acquiring dozens more units.
Beyond personal wealth building, Laura has structured her business to create generational prosperity through four separate LLCs - one for herself and her husband, and three others benefiting her parents, son, and daughter. Her work with her parents demonstrates her compassionate approach to family finances: rather than watching their retirement savings deplete, she helped convert their 401(k) into a real estate portfolio generating $4,000 monthly with perpetual growth potential.
Laura doesn't shy away from challenges either. She candidly discusses her current church conversion project, "Operation Foxhole," designed to provide housing for veterans, and the regulatory hurdles that have complicated the process. She also shares how market shifts have impacted her once-lucrative midterm rental business, forcing adaptation in a saturated marketplace.
Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting out, Laura's story offers invaluable insights into scaling quickly, structuring family investments, and navigating market challenges with resilience and creativity. Looking to connect with Laura about furnished rentals or her projects? Email her at laura@apcoho.com and explore how her approach might transform your own real estate journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor and, asusual, I have another amazing
guest I'm going to be bringingyou guys today.
We just had a greatconversation.
We almost forgot to start thepodcast because we were talking
about so many cool things thatare going on that I'm excited to
bring you guys today.
But before we do, I want togive you guys a little bit of a
commercial here for WisconsinDiscount Properties, who's
(00:23):
sponsoring today's episode.
One of the deals we're going tobring up, we had a deal out to
our buyers list recently.
It was between New London andChiactin, kind of in the middle
of nowhere, on about an acre ofland, and nobody bought it on
the first one.
So I hear a lot of times wherepeople they say, ah, you guys
have too many buyers, I cannever get a deal right, why even
(00:43):
waste my time putting an offerin?
Well, here's one that nobodybought.
So we ended up talking tosomebody who does quite a few
flips.
They're going to pick it up andthey're going to do the flip
and they're expecting to makeabout 20,000 on this thing and
spend about 3,500 bucks in rehabon it.
So their profit per hour isgoing to be through the roof on
this thing.
So if you're looking for dealslike that, we have other ones
(01:04):
too.
There are big projects.
Laura, our guest today, who I'mgoing to introduce in a second,
knows all about the differentrange of properties and projects
we bring up.
But go towisconsindiscountpropertiescom,
put your information in andyou'll start getting deals sent
to your inbox every Mondaymorning.
And with that, let's get intotoday's episode.
Let's get into today's episode.
I have one of my favoritepeople that we do business with
(01:25):
here.
We've done quite a few dealstogether Laura Ritchie, on the
show today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Laura.
What's cracking today?
Well, just buying houses andhave remodels going here and
there and have a churchmultifamily on hold.
Just kind of a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So many things we can dive into today Before we get
too much into the weeds.
You just closed down oneyesterday with us at the time of
this recording, correct?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, my husband's flying back from Belize so I
have to tell him about thathouse yet, so spoiler.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, this episode won't come out for a couple of
weeks, so he'll hopefully knowby then.
That's good.
There we go.
How did you get into realestate?
When did you get started?
Give us a little bit of thequick background story on you,
Laura, and how you got heretoday doing real estate full
time.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so I was like in media my whole life.
I kind of ran media companiesand did you know some
sponsorships and monetizationfor publishers around the nation
?
So kind of like a wholedifferent career, monetization
for publishers around the nation, so kind of like a whole
different career.
My husband was like was thekind of the head of the state
(02:32):
retention MCO for the army andwas working like a gazillion
hours a week and really, youknow, like a job with a lot of
responsibility and stress, and Ididn't want him to have to work
when he retired from the army.
I wanted him to have choicesand and so you know, to see what
life would be like, you know,when we're not, you know
grinding, and you know both ofus working so many hours and
(02:53):
stuff like that.
So I decided to like kind ofstart that little side hustle
and, um, we, our firstopportunity for a house was, um,
my, his mom actually, you know,was in transition and she was
getting older and she was goingfrom one house to another and
she, um, decided to put herhouse in our name, um, and so we
(03:16):
actually, you know it was ahundred thousand dollar house,
you know um, but we were able tothen leverage, you know some of
that um for a down payment onon also getting something Um.
So we you know she got herexact house, her whole situation
, you know um, but then she, herhouse, was protected from you
know some of some of thosethings that that could have you
(03:39):
know if she went got sick orsomething like that protected
from hospital kind of kind ofbills, um, so then she had that
protection.
You know she had her house soshe could, you know, give that
to her sons and stuff later, um,and then in the meanwhile we
were able to have just a littlemore equity to, you know, buy
our first unit, um, and you know, then I did a number of like
(04:03):
you know tradition or you knowkind of non-traditional
financing pieces in order togrow really, really fast and,
you know, get to where we aretoday.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Okay, and what year was that that you got the house
put in your name?
So?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
that first one, when I was just dabbling, as you know
, just a very light side hustle,was actually 2017.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, cool, very cool .
That's about when I got started.
I got started in 2016.
So we got started right aroundthe same time, and that's pretty
crazy.
And then it didn't take youlong to be doing this full time.
I mean, you left corporateAmerica in 2020, correct?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yep, january 1st 2020 .
So it was only a couple ofyears, and part of it was, like
you know, people like in thesegroups, you know, giving me like
really great opportunitieswhere they, you know, took a
chance on me and I, you know, Iwas able to do some creative
things in order to get intoproperties that I, you know,
(04:58):
like financially, banks wouldhave, you know, like I had no
business getting into.
Yet you know.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, let's talk about some of that.
Let's unpack that a little bit.
When you say you get, cause youyou know.
When we were talking a littlebit earlier, one of the things
that stood out to me, laura, isyou've been just you've through
your career it sounds likethrough pretty much your whole
life.
It sounds like you've used alot of grit, determination, just
kind of hard work like nottaking no to get to where you
are today.
Right, just figuring out a way.
Talk about some of the creativethings you had to do Like what
(05:26):
were some of those things to beable to grow that quickly, to be
able to leave corporate Americain three years.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, so that you know the first one was, you know
, more of a traditional play insome respects.
You know we just we leveraged alittle bit of equity and you
know anyone can do that, ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Was that a HELOC, or was that a refinance?
Or how did you guys leveragethat equity?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
exactly, I don't remember.
We just, you know, used some ofthe equity in that house as the
down payment.
I don't remember the format ofthe loan, it was kind of a while
ago.
And then after that, the nextone.
There was a four unit apartmentbuilding, so that first
property ended up being anonconforming three unit.
So it was a du unit apartmentbuilding, so that that first
property ended up being anon-conforming three unit.
So it was a duplex and a housetogether.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And I think it was like $136,000.
And what I ended up doing islike I was like I put it for
rent, like normal, and I tookpeople through.
I'm like, oh, they all want it.
And I'm like, no, this one'spretty nice.
I'm like I think I'm going todo something else with it.
And I, you know, went to thethrift stores and I, you know,
like you know, we were like thehillbillies and we had, you know
(06:31):
, harvested furniture.
I spray painted it in the yardand, you know, filled, filled
that unit, and you know, then wegot was like, well, I think I'm
going to do the same thing tothe upstairs one you know so,
little by little, and then,finally, then time went by a
little bit and I did the housenext door, so I had the three
furnished rentals and then anapartment building came up and
(06:55):
so, you know, I had my full timesales job with NBC and I had, I
think what I did was we, myhusband's a veteran and so he
was able to get a hundredpercent financing on our main
family house.
So we ended up cashing out onour main family house using that
(07:18):
veteran program and then we usethat like $90,000 of equity we
had in our house for our downpayment on a four unit apartment
building.
Then I was I needed to furnishand remodel it.
So I took a loan against my401k at that time while I was
working and then between, like,cousins and brothers and myself
(07:40):
spray painting cabinets, we,like you know, in the thrift
storing and all that you know,we had our next four.
You know, kind of lipstick on apig furnished housing at that
time.
It was so much easier because noone was doing it, sure.
And so now you know, I put likejust so much money into these
places and then it's like mylift is like nothing compared to
where it was.
Where.
Then, you know, I put my littlelipstick on it and I was like I
(08:03):
can, you know, make double themoney with spray paint you?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
know anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Like.
That is not the state ofaffairs anymore.
But, yeah, I was just thinkingthat I could like spray paint my
way to like, you know, riches,and it was.
It started out that way.
Um, and then after that, I hada seven unit, um and uh, jason
Lund, who you know does similarthings to you with like the
wholesaling he had gotten youknow this, this unique seven
(08:33):
unit property that's almost likecondos together, you know like
in its layout they had garages.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It was an odd townhouse style.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, it was like a neat property and one of
them, you know, was like almostlike a garage, you know.
One had like hole on the floor,one had like a hoarder
situation, there was like allkinds of stuff.
And then there was like fourjust kind of, but you know the
it was like six $700 rents youknow there at that time, and
then some that were kind of justsomewhat abandoned or whatever.
(09:03):
And I was like I think I gavehim $50,000 down which I got
from, I think, maybe anotherloan from my home equity, and
then also like a big commissionthat I got on like a sponsorship
sale.
So I put that money down withhim and he's like I had four
(09:23):
months basically to get it niceenough to refinance it, pay him
the 350,000 he was selling it tome for.
I ended up actually getting90,000 back at the table and
then that property is now worthlike $1.1 million.
(09:43):
And it has leveraged me intoprobably 50 units since then.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Wow, that is crazy.
So one of the things I want tounpack this for a second.
There was a lot right there,laura, for the audience to hear.
So that one you did like theultimate burr right when you
burred it, but then you also gota check for 90K at the
refinance four months later.
Wow, so you paid your.
Think of those of us out therethat do flips, right, I'm a big
(10:10):
buy and hold person myself, butwe flip properties from time to
time, right, and I know a lot ofpeople that listen to the show
flip properties.
We have a lot of buyers thatflip properties, but the
ultimate flip is the one thatyou flip to yourself and you
collect a check for $90,000tax-free unless you sell it.
But in the moment, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
like you know that 90 has to pay for, like you know,
my flooring and you know likethat that's paying me back, so
it's paying you back myrevolving debt, because I use a
lot of that as well.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So this wasn't all 90 K coming in the just sitting in
your bank account.
This was to pay you back, butultimately you were able to make
these things way nicer, rightand really improve the property
to a point now where you took soyou were all in for how much
about four, four, 40 into thatthing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I kind of feel like whatever I got back, I
ultimately put back into it, butat the same time that thing
just continued to like produceequity to be able to get into
other things.
So I mean that you know, a lotof my stuff have been refinanced
a million times and, you know,I think people have different
appetites for risk and I thinkmy appetite for risk is like I
(11:24):
think there's maybe somethingwrong with me that I I can't
just like like let's just getlife to the point that you're
not having like an elephant onyour chest and you're, you know,
like you're able to just havelike a normal amount of stress,
like I'm not sure why I needlike so much stress, that I have
to have, you know, like fourlions ready to rip my throat out
(11:45):
at any given time, but I justmust need that, because right
about the time when I think like, oh I, I can see like
stabilization, like you know, ayear out, or whatever, I do like
10 things that are questionable.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I know my wife's like that too.
She's like when are we evergonna just slow down?
I'm like we will honey someday,I promise we'll slow down.
And then I'm like oh, shinyobject over here, let's go do
that Right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Like my Amazon card, only their houses, which is like
the worst.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Exactly.
Oh, that's amazing.
So, but now let's look at theequity on that.
So you went, let's say it'sworth 1.1.
Let's say you were all in for500,000, just for easy math,
right?
You don't have six hundredthousand dollars of equity.
You created that you were thenable to leverage into 50 units,
right, which is the totalportfolio of.
That's got to be worth overfive million, right?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yes, so I'm at.
I'm at eighty five unitsoverall.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
OK.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Across the four businesses, not that that one
property you know got into allthose, but it and I think it's
about like thirteen, fourteenmillion.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Wow, that's amazing.
So what we're what I want tounpack there, laura, cause we
talked you just mentioned itPeople have different risk
tolerance levels, right, and oneof the things when I'm talking
to a potential new buyer for usor somebody who just needs some
coaching or something like that,that's one of the first things
that we need to talk about islike, how aggressively do you
want to grow?
Like, how intense is yourdesire to get from A to B?
(13:07):
Because you're going to do somethings like what Laura's
talking about here.
You're going to get scrappy,you're going to leverage things,
you're leveraging 401ks, you'releveraging houses, you're 100%
financed on a house.
I mean, for some people thatwould make them just keel over
and you're just like, yeah,bring it on, let's get as much
leverage as possible.
I'm very similar.
I'm like leverage the heck outof this and let's keep growing.
Because to me, the way I lookat it is as soon as I can buy
(13:29):
that property, the sooner I canbuy that property and get
tenants in there, the clockstarts ticking for me on
building equity right, theappreciation goes up, the tenant
pay down goes this way and Istart to create I don't know how
to do it on the camerabackwards.
But you create I call it thewealth cone, right?
You just start here andeventually your spread just
becomes like this and you, youcan really not know what you're
(13:51):
doing in this industry.
That well and over time, timemakes you look like a genius, as
if, and the buying whole thingRight, and so I think what
you're doing, I'm more probablysided with you, but I know
there's people that listen tothis that are like I just want
one duplex a year.
I'm going to put my 20, 25%down.
I want to.
I want a turnkey type thing,side-by-side duplex, and that's
(14:12):
all they want and that's great.
That's just maybe a little bitslower path to the goal, and
that's okay If their risktolerance is not where your eyes
probably is on the spectrum andI think I may have met my match
here for risk tolerance, Ithink you're out even further
than I am tolerance scale, whichis awesome, so I love that I
want to talk about now.
Earlier you mentioned that youhave four different businesses
(14:33):
and the way that you categorizedit, uh, I'm assuming, means
like you have four differententities that do different
things but are kind of alignedRight and talk about those and
what the goal with those is,because I think this is a really
cool thing for people to bethinking about, like just how
big can you?
For those of you that are likegosh, I just got to get my first
property Right it's like, ok,cool, yes, let's get from zero
to one.
(14:54):
But then think bigger pictureof, like, what real estate can
do for not just yourself but foryour family.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Let's talk a little bit about that.
Let's talk about what you'vedone now with these different
businesses and how you've usedthat to help your family.
Yeah, so my front facingbusiness is Appleton Corporate
Housing, and so that's kind ofjust like my DBA.
And then I have four, like yousaid, llcs.
The one LLC is, you know, myhusband and I's and we have, you
know, maybe like 75 units inthat one.
And then I also do businessesfor my parents and my son and my
daughter, and so with myparents, they, you know, we were
(15:35):
looking at kind of like their.
Some salespeople came to theirdoor about, you know, investing
and like getting some moreinsurance policies and something
that you know financialadvising and all that kind of
stuff.
And my mom called me.
She's like what do you think?
And I'm like well, I basicallymade her like a little story, um
(15:55):
, about splitting hostas becauseshe likes to garden.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Um and I, I explained to her what I wanted to do for
her retirement by basicallysplitting her hostas, and so she
had a little.
She had a little rental thatwas paid off, that was down the
street.
So they had this one littledabble that they had done.
But their 401k.
If they would have continuedtheir rate of spending, I think
they would have been out, Idon't know, maybe seven, eight
(16:21):
years.
They probably would have liketightened their belts and had to
, you know, just livedifferently and whatever.
But what I was like, you knowlike, if we cash this out and we
leverage this little, you know,$100,000 or whatever rental
that you have, I can get anapartment building in Appleton
(16:42):
and then I will do my furnishedrentals there for you.
So basically we did, you know,we bought a building, you know I
completely remodeled it with myteam my team takes all the
credit, of course, not me and sowe remodeled it, we furnished
it, we did all that stuff.
And now you know they have thisyou know little five unit
portfolio, but you know they geta $4,000 check from their.
(17:05):
You know little five unitportfolio, but you know they get
a $4,000 check from their youknow respective businesses every
month and that is, you know,just a little more than what
they would have were you knowwould have had before between
like what they would get withtheir 401k per month and then
the rental that they had and so.
But instead you know that nowit's and so, but instead you
know that now it's and westarted that in 2021.
(17:27):
And now they've gained back thathouse equity that was leveraged
.
They haven't gained back thewhole 401k that was kind of
cashed out but that you knowwill be caught up in you know, a
couple of years.
They'll have gained back theequity that they cashed out on
the 401k.
They'll have gained back theequity that they cashed out on
(17:48):
the 401k, but instead of itemptying, you know, like we look
ahead three years where itwould have been like if they had
that same rate of spending,they would have been out.
Instead they have thisperpetual, you know, check that
they're getting, and you knowI'm not making any money off
this business, so it's just kindof like extra work, but then,
at the same time, you know it isproviding for my family's
future too, because you know, asyour parents get older and
eventually, sadly, you know,aren't with us anymore, then you
(18:11):
know that's also, you know,inheritance that my brother and
I will have.
That has been, you know, anincrease in equity for for all
of our family in the generations, rather than a depletion that
would have been happening.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That is so awesome and I think, what's important
for people to realize here.
Laura, as you're talking, I'mthinking about my parents, right
, and I don't know their fullfinancial picture.
They do some real estateinvesting as well.
We've gotten them started withsome things.
They do some passive stuff withsome real estate investing or
other people that do real estateinvesting and that kind of
thing.
But what you're talking aboutis so important.
With a lot of the technologyand medical advances and AI and
(18:48):
all this other stuff.
You know there's a lot of peopledepending who you listen to
that talk about our lifespan andhow it's going to increase
dramatically uh, soon, right,with all the advances, and
people who are planning forretirement 10 years ago.
They may have to plan muchlonger now than what they had
anticipated, even late later inlife, if there's fortunate
enough to not have any majorissues at this point.
And what you're doing is you'reusing the leverage and equity
(19:13):
that they built and helping themjust split the hostas.
I love that.
You're helping them multiply.
You took one, turned it to five,right?
I mean, that's amazing.
And now that thing doesn'tmatter what happens in their
four-year-old, like you weresaying, they can just spend the
same amount of money every monththat they were spending.
But that nest egg isn'tdepleting to the point, it's
just continuing.
It's probably it's increasingbecause of what we talked about
with the wealth cone.
Eventually you could probablyre-leverage that property again
(19:36):
if you needed to pull some moreequity back out and go split
some more hostas or just givethem a nice little nest egg to
hang on, go play with right.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, their portfolio now is at a place that we could
do that again.
Like you know, it's definitelyready that we could do that
again.
And you know, that's kind of aneat one in that, like you don't
have to have gotten to thatpoint that you have built your
own equity yet.
If you're, like, you know, aninvestor, you know 30s or you
know however old, and you'relike, geez, you know I want to
(20:07):
help my parents and I want tohelp myself, like how can we
work together where we take someof my willingness to you know,
do the work and be scrappy andhustle and then use what my
parents bring to the table oryour parents bring to the table,
this equity that you know maybea younger person hasn't built
(20:27):
up yet and then you guys can,you can win together.
And I think you know that canbe tricky with families,
sometimes Like, well, I have areally nice dynamic you know and
trust with and they've also,they've also gotten to see what
I was building for so long thatthere was a comfort level there.
It might be a little moredifficult if you're just
starting, but at the same time,I think it's like a conversation
(20:51):
really worth having andthinking about with, like
looking at your parents'retirement.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Totally, and my mom was my first investor in
property, so my first duplex Iever bought I had.
I got fired from a job,surprise, surprise, and I had a
I think it was like a profitshare thing that was sitting in
an IRA, so I just pulled thatout.
I didn't have hardly any gains,so there was really no penalty
to pull it out.
And then my mom had the rest ofit and she put the money in and
(21:17):
I gave her, I think, 12%interest on her cash or
something like that while wewere remodeling it until we
could refinance and pay her back.
And then I think it's likethree or four other deals she
ended up investing with me andwhile I was growing the
portfolio so it was great shegot to get a 12% return on her
cash that she was maybe earningat the time, like three or 4% on
(21:41):
.
Oh, that's great, a win-win forboth of you.
Yeah, everybody wins and allthat and that's one Hard money.
Lenders are an awesome resource,but I tell people like have as
many buckets of money aspossible that you can tap into
and use them strategicallydepending on what you got going
on, and you never want to miss agood deal just because you
didn't have financing set up oran option to fund the deal,
right.
So that's some of the things,and friends and family are some
(22:03):
of the best.
I know people get weird aboutasking their friends or family,
but really you're giving them anopportunity to grow their cash.
You know, as long as you feelcomfortable, you're going to pay
it back, right?
That's Thanksgiving.
Could get weird.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's an area I do struggle with a little is
because, like a lot of timesthere, there are really good
opportunities where I'm like youknow, I know this person, you
know this aunt or this friend oryou know this neighbor, what
you know, whoever it might be,I'm like this is a great
opportunity where it's like youcould make more than what you
are and I can get.
(22:36):
I can turn it back out to youpretty quickly.
But there is like anawkwardness, you know, like I
don't like to sell products youknow, and on, you know, to my
friends and family and stufflike that.
Not against anyone who's doingthat, but you know, I've had to
do so much sales in my life forother things that I've tried to
like not do so much with myfriends and family, but it's
(22:59):
like, at the same time, ifyou're like they can just have
$5,000 they didn't have twomonths from now, it's like, you
know, once in a while I'll, I'llask, like I'll throw that out
there to someone.
And I was talking to one of mygirlfriends the other day and
I'm like, I'm like this is how Iasked this but I'm like, but I
feel like such a bottom feederyou know just because you know
(23:19):
you have that.
Like you know, are you thisworthy investor that's you know.
So that is.
That is something that Istruggle with when it's people
that I know because also likethe personality of you know,
your like fun Island self isn'talways the business person.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Well, they know your history right.
They know, they know.
They know.
They know all the good and thebad if they know you well enough
.
It's reminding me of a storyfor those, for those of you out
there, who read the Bible.
There's a good story in therewhere Jesus comes back to
Nazareth and he's trying topreach and he says you know, no,
no, prof.
I don't remember what the lineis, but basically no prophets
worthy in his own town, in hisown town, or he can't do
(23:55):
miracles in his own town becauseyou know they're like wait,
aren't you the carpenter?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, buffett, right?
It's kind of a similar thingfor for some of us with with
family, right, that's thatactually there's a lot of truth
to that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Because you wouldn't want to be a prophet, like where
you went to high school, or,you know, like I just feel like,
if you know I I couldn't betrying to like sell investments
to like my old high school class, like you know, like the
messiest locker and late for onething I have found, laura and I
don't know if this is helpfulfor you, the audience, but one
thing I have found that has beenreally helpful is again kind of
(24:29):
that mindset shift right Oflike, wait a minute, I'm
actually doing them a favor bybringing them into this.
So like, instead of me chasingthem and saying like, ooh, I'm
going to go sell them something,I'm like, wait a minute, I have
an amazing opportunity overhere for them to help grow their
cash.
They're getting 3% over here.
I can give them 10% or 12% orwhatever it is.
Or if you're going to give themsome equity in the deal or
whatever, the case is right,whatever you work out with them.
(24:51):
The other thing I've done is thekind of the old third party ask
right.
So when you go up to somebodyno-transcript, and inevitably if
(25:13):
that person you're talking toyour aunt or your friend or
whatever has cash sitting on thesideline, they're going to be
like, ah, yeah, hey, right here.
And you're like, oh, really,okay, cool, I didn't want to,
you know, with family and stuff,but now I would love to work
with you if you want, want toget involved, and inevitably if
they have cash sitting on thesidelines.
It's like shooting fish in abarrel it works every time and
you feel good about it too, likeI don't feel ever bad about
(25:35):
asking a fan or saying it thatway to a family member.
It's the indirect ask and takesa little bit of the pressure off
and a little bit of the steamoff of like asking somebody.
It's more of like, hey, it'sopportunity.
Do you know anybody that wouldwant to get involved in it?
And then boom, they're.
Usually, if they have cashsitting there, they're, they're
going to raise it and if not,they'll go.
Oh, I don't know.
Let me actually yeah, my buddyover here that I know he's
(25:56):
always talking about investing.
You know, one way or another,either get a referral to
somebody else or they'llinevitably want to invest with
you.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So no, that's that's, that's good advice, for sure,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I've seen it work with some of the other people.
That's worked for me, butanyway, well, so okay, what does
the future look like for you,laura?
So you've got 85 units, youhave a church you're working on
right now.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe church project and I know
this is this is for some of youout there A lot of times you
talk about all the successes.
This one is one of thoseelephants Laura's chest.
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so we bought.
So I bought a church and it wasone of my marketplace impulse
buys and I have.
So I was like not looking atreal estate listings.
I'm like I'm stabilizing, Iwill not allow myself to open
any emails or anything relatedto real estate listings.
Well, my daughter sent me a linkfrom marketplace on this church
(26:52):
and so I opened it and then itwas like, and it was like, oh,
seller financing.
And I was like, anytime I canjust like not have to call a
bank and just like own something.
I have trouble not just doingthat, regardless of what it is.
And this church was, you knowit has, you know it's great.
You know it's a great hugebuilding.
(27:14):
It's 10,000 square feet.
It's actually 12,000 squarefeet.
you add that third, you know youtake the balcony across part of
the way and add that that level, because we're doing, um, like
three full levels okay um, andthen we are going to take some
of the parking lot and make abank of garages and do a few
little penthouses over those, soit's a 16 unit project, um, and
(27:37):
you know, like, just the demoon it, um, ended up just being
like way more than you know,invasive than what I thought
Like originally.
I just thought we could justlike rough in some units and you
know, and, and if I would havejust rented it to the group of
people I had and just let themuse that little kitchen and just
(27:57):
spend, like, just use the space, kind of like I thought I could
just right out of the gates.
But instead we, we dug in andwe started demoing and we had
this, you know, big vision forwhat we wanted to do, um, and
the vision of it is it's uh, myhusband came up with the idea of
operation foxhole because he'sum, he's a veteran, um, um, and
(28:20):
we want to have this, thisbuilding, this multi-unit um, to
have first priority to um,veterans and, and then you know,
the floors that are handicapaccessible, disabled veterans,
um, and you know, have like akind of a flight of placements
where, you know, first of all weserve, you know, that
population and try to you knowanyone who's looking for housing
(28:43):
and those groups and then youknow kind of open the remaining
ones to to the public.
So so there's like some, youknow positive, you know there
too, but we've actually gotten.
You know I owe.
It was so much on this building, it's like very stressful.
So it's a situation where Ican't sell it for what I owe
(29:03):
right now and so I have to getthe financing to get the project
done.
And you know, the cashflow isthere, the end project's there,
the plan is all there, but it'sjust a matter of then.
You know they see that kind ofwreck hulk of a interior,
(29:27):
because you're at that phasewhere it gets worse before it
gets better.
For sure you know, you have like.
You know, you scrape the bonesand you're ready to.
You know, just stack your units.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
And you've done a lot of like infrastructure kind of
stuff and bought.
You know, like, we bought the ACand you know heating, cooling
and all this, spoilers and justwe have all this stuff, um, but
we just need to like get to thatnext place.
So I, you know, working on SBAloans and grants and stuff like
that, and, um, I also have beenenjoying my life, so that has
(30:01):
also slowed things down.
So, um, you know, my, so mychurch right now is just kind of
in a holding pattern.
Um, while I get long-termfinancing so I can pay my hard
money, lender back the initialinvestment, and right now I'm
just kind of paying her monthlyinterest, um, so that's kind of
sucking some money out of mypocket in the short term.
(30:22):
But but we will get there.
It's just, you know, going totake longer than I thought and
there's there's definitely morehurdles with having to get like
architects and structuralengineers and a bunch of things
that we weren't aware that wewould have to do.
But as it got kicked up to astate level, from two units to
13 units, like, everythingchanges and there's just a lot
(30:44):
more involved.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So, yeah, is do you have to get an elevator and
sprinkler system in, or is itnot?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
so that's that's.
One of the other things is likeum, not an elevator okay god, I
hope not an elevator, um, but uh, sprinkler systems or something
.
You know the sprinkler system,the architect and one of the
things that I'm looking for.
So maybe this will go in theuniverse.
And so the architectural quotethat I have is higher than what
(31:11):
I want to pay for what I kind ofneed, because I basically need
someone to work with a statethat's got that architectural
stamp to just kind of sign off,because we know what we want to
do and we've had the structuralengineer already.
You know, kind of tell us whatwe can do, ok, but we need the
architect basically just to drawwhat we already know we're
(31:33):
going to do.
Ok, but then work hand in handwith the state to make sure
everything's compliant.
And we have those like littlecode things all the way through
with the state to make sureeverything's compliant.
And we have those like littlecode things all the way through.
And it is a lot of hours andthe size of the facility.
But I kind of need someone who,like, has that stamp that maybe
worked for a firm but is maybeindependent or between projects,
that wants to take something on, that can do it for, you know,
(31:55):
still a nice price but a lotless than when you're working
with the whole firm.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
For sure.
Yeah, cool, well, this will goout.
So, yeah, if you share thepodcast or you know our audience
, hopefully we'll share thisepisode with their, with their
folks, and hopefully get theword out.
Or if they know somebody, letus know, we'll get.
We'll drop your contact info atthe end, laura, and we'll put
it in the show notes too.
So if anybody gets anything orknows anybody, we can reach out
directly to you, and that'd beawesome to make a little
connection here through the showfor you.
(32:21):
So what are some things so youmentioned?
Is this the first time you'vedone one of these?
You know, kind of biggerconversion type projects?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, I feel like it's been like a negative
learning process for me.
I don't know that I want to doany more of these Um, I don't
know that I want to do any moreof these Um.
I just, I like I kind of likethe quick hit of like it's sort
of like my drug, where I like,you know, like I can go on your
(32:50):
site or I can, you know, one ofmy other wholesalers can call me
and be like Laura, I got thisgreat deal, and then I can like
have that impulse buy, like myAmazon card, I can buy the house
and then, you know, we can sendour guys in and we can pick out
some fancy tile and we can, youknow, you know, do a few things
to upgrade it and then get itout there and so, like those are
(33:11):
fun.
Like I like kind of like thatfast, little you know, hit of
adrenaline and you know, havinga new, new thing that's starting
to build equity, like this,this long process, like I don't
I want to build my empire, likeyou know, with one trailer of
old furniture at a time.
I don't think I want to do likethe whole, like actually
(33:33):
building it.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
For sure you and I were talking about that.
I think you and I are moresimilar the longer we talk,
laura, because I'm like that too.
I'm like ooh.
That's why I love wholesaling,because for me it's just got the
deal, sell the deal, got thedeal, sell the deal, got the
deal, sell the deal.
Now, I'm not building anywealth doing that, but it's fun
and I enjoy doing it.
(33:55):
Same thing with rentals I loveit, I can buy it, I can send've
got a tenant in there.
I didn't have to go in andswing any hammers because I'm
terrible at that, so I let themdo it all and boom, I go find
the next one.
I find deals, I find money, easypeasy.
I have a project right nowwhere we might have to demo the
house because it's pretty roughand we might have to build a new
one.
Well, now we're dealingwithback issues and so now we
(34:18):
might have to move the whole newhouse to a new slab and all
this other stuff.
So the costs are just likeracking up.
Now I'm okay with it, because Ido have interest in new
construction and thinking aboutlike what if I just started
building new houses?
Right, it's just another avenue.
This is my shiny object kickingin.
So I'm learning and it's notgonna like kill me, but I hate
(34:43):
the process of it, like I justdon't like.
I don't like rules and dealingwith it.
I'm like why do we have a 40foot setback?
Why, who made that rule?
This is dumb.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm just trying to replace the house that was there
with a better house.
Just let me do it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I don't, so I don't play well with rules.
Yeah, I think it's the same,exact that personality profile
for sure For sure, 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Let's go back to when you got started.
We talked a little bit aboutthis, and when we were talking
about having you on the show,one of the things you brought up
was the midterm rentalenvironment right now, and so I
think this is important foreverybody.
You know again, not everythingwe do in real estate is roses
and rainbows and everything's up, up, up, up up all the time,
right, we're seeing this in theshort-term rental space too,
with a lot of our short-termrentals.
(35:21):
Those have been down the lastcouple of years.
What are you seeing in themidterm?
And maybe can you just definewhat midterm is for those out
there that don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, so we were kind of leaders in the area in that,
with Appleton Corporate Housing, the midterm rental space which
usually the leases are anaverage of, you know, just like
a couple months, and people arehere.
You know, during COVID that wasa really big thing because you
had so many of the travel nursesand you know there's also
(35:55):
contract workers and there's,you know, construction groups.
You know, when a bunch of guyscome up from Mexico and they're
doing roofs, they need a placeto stay and you know that motel
environment isn't as nice forthem as a big house or like a
whole apartment building.
So there's all different kindsof groups.
You've got, you know, assistedliving.
You've got, you know, all thesedifferent people who are in
transition that need a furnishedplace for a certain period of
time and for a long time.
(36:17):
When I first started out, sincethere was no competition, you
know people were either doingAirbnbs or they were doing
long-term rentals.
Like I said, I was able to.
You know, like I could spraypaint something and now it's,
like, you know, making threetimes more money, but now I have
it's the opposite.
So now you know I have, like Ibought that 16 unit property
(36:40):
from from you guys and had Ijust kept it like it, you know,
because it was a nice property,yeah, and I kind of kept it
where it was and just like,nudge the rents up, I would
actually be in a better spacewith that building.
Then I spent another milliondollars on it and there's, like
you know, waterfall granitecountertops and built in.
(37:01):
You know, like, if you've notbeen to my website, like those
units are just insane howbeautiful they are and they were
great for a corporate clientwhen there was that business.
But it got oversaturated becauseother people you know the long
term people saw like, oh,they're making that much money,
let's move some of our placesinto that.
The Airbnb people said it's apain in the ass to do three days
(37:24):
and then have to turn it andturn it and turn it and turn it.
Let's rent to travel nurses.
Well, so everybody got in thatspace and now it's to the point
that you know I'm including thefurniture and I, you know it's
like I probably could get almostthe same exact amount on just
an empty rental.
So I'm actually trying to get asmany long-term leases as I can
(37:46):
at a lower rate than what I wasgetting in 2017 with my first
corporate rentals that were notthis huge investment, that were
my spray painting years, were myspray painting years.
So, like the difference andwhere that's gone down to and my
lift is you know not where itis now.
You know you're also talking tome in spring.
(38:07):
So spring, laura, is muchsadder state of affairs.
I'm like a little more humble,which I'm not that humble, um,
and just like a little more likebeaten down.
But then end of summer, laurais, like you know, rags to
riches.
So it kind of depends on whattime of the year that you talk
to me.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So at the time we're recording this again, we have 12
Airbnbs and most I think 10 arein Wisconsin and yeah, it's the
same.
We're like, oh my gosh, I gotto put more money back in that
account.
I have to fund this LLC again.
Dang it, this is terrible.
And then at the end of summerfall, I'm like, wow, airbnb is
the best thing ever.
I love it 100%.
(38:49):
We're very similar.
The longer this goes on, we'relike twins, just opposite gender
here.
That's awesome.
So I think that's important.
What was really smart when, whenit was going really well, is
you bought a 16 unit, whichthose are valued based off of an
income approach, and so whenyou were talking about leverage
right.
What's great about that is youcan create a ton of equity by
(39:10):
juicing up that income approach,right, if you can get the
appraiser to base it off of whatyou're either projecting you're
going to do with the midtermrental rent, which is going
something like that, and thenthat juices up your income, and
(39:30):
so in the appraiser values that,you're getting a much, much
higher appraisal.
During the heyday of themidterm that you were doing.
But the downside is now, if youdon't have those things filled,
you step all this money intothem and made them awesome
probably best long-termapartments in town.
Yeah, not going to get quitethe return that you were getting
(39:50):
before, right?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, and you know I've got, you know, five
construction workers from downSouth that are, you know, I'm,
I'm, I'm taking everybody youknow, like, just like five
individual people that are doingroofs.
Are, you know, going into, um,you know, a place with granite
waterfall countertops and it'slike, well, I gotta, you know
(40:13):
I'm thinking of actually goingaround town with flyers and
everyone who's on a roof beinglike, hey, I've got some
furnished housing for you, let'sget you guys out of these
motels.
And, um, you know, fill my,fill my open doors.
So I think that's my, my nextum feet, feet on the ground
campaign.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So I love it, I love it.
Well, let's get where.
I know you got a busy day todaytoo, probably, and we got to
get wrapping here.
We always like to end with akind of a fun question, laura.
So we always ask and this iswhy we do this, by the way is
you know?
We have people outside ofWisconsin that are looking to
invest in Wisconsin, that listento the show, invest in
Wisconsin, listen to the showand you know, just for all of us
(40:48):
Wisconsinites, we like to heardifferent spots, so we like to
kind of tell people a little bitmore about this great state
that we invest in if they aren'tas familiar.
Do you have?
Or what is your favoriteWisconsin tradition or place to
visit?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, I grew up in Portage at least like my high
school and stuff years and so myhome, like where my heart is,
is actually the Wisconsin River.
So we have in Portage, which islike 15 minutes from Wisconsin
Dells, you know we've got likesandbars and you know we always
played a lot of like home runderby on the sandbars and stuff
(41:24):
like that.
And so we have a cottage inWisconsin Dells at, and so we
have a cottage in WisconsinDells and so just you know, like
taking a pontoon boat out, youknow, or taking one of the Dells
boat tours and going into likethose majestic cliffs, you know
that is like one of only aboutthree places in the world that
has like those kind of like rockformations, and you know
(41:47):
Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Dells.
Sometimes people think oh,wisconsin dells.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
You know the water parks and tourism and you know
crap downtown or whatever.
But um, there is like thereason that the dells became the
dells is because of themajestic beauty of the wisconsin
river and, um, you know, I gohome fishing with my dad all the
time, so, you know, catch a lotof walleyes out of that river
and then eat them, which iswonderful.
(42:11):
And so, uh, yeah, just being onthe sandbars and, you know,
throwing something that floatsdown the river for a few hours,
that's kind of, I think, myWisconsin recommendation you
know you're the first one Ithink you're going to be like
episode 30 ish somewhere inthere.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
First one to bring up the Wisconsin river.
Oh, okay, we've had the dells.
I think we've had the dellsmaybe once, but not in the same
light they had.
You know, they're a water perky.
Uh, recommendation where I likeI forgot about, like we love
the dells and I love doing theboat tour and it is, it's like
amazing the different rockformations.
We live in door county, whichhas some pretty cool rocks but
totally different than what yousee on the river, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah there's, there's a really good.
You probably have done that onethat like the cave, that cave
kayaking trap up in Door County,Like that's a really, really
beautiful one.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
We had one scheduled and it was like really wavy and
rainy that day and then we justnever rescheduled.
They canceled it.
We never rescheduled it.
Sad, I know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I needed it.
I took my daughter and herniece on that, or my daughter
and like my husband, which is aother family relative, and yeah,
that was like such an amazingday, so you have to schedule
that this summer.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I got to be more of a tourist this summer.
Yeah Well, laura, thank you somuch for being on today.
There was so much in here.
I think our audience is goingto love this episode, but if
somebody wants to get you thatconnection to the architect, or
they want to connect with youabout anything that you're
willing to share with them,what's the best way for them to
reach you?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
So you can email me.
Okay, email me, and my email isLaura L-A-U-R-A at my website
address, which is apcohocom.
It's A-P as in Peter C-O-H-Ocom.
So, Laura, at apcohocom, and Iwill say I do have a lot of
(44:03):
furnished rentals available andwe serve, you know, Oshkosh, um,
most of Northeast Wisconsin.
You know we've got a lot ingreen Bay, tons and tons of
Appleton and even individuallike Kimberly, Hakana and some
of these like smallercommunities around here.
Um, so, and we do work with youknow, if you're a construction
company, we will actually houseyour whole work crew for you.
(44:26):
Um, and you know, take some ofthose risks.
We will accept your pets ifyou're in transition, trying to
find your forever home.
So we take risks on a lot ofthose things that a lot of
people don't do, and that's whywe kind of we kind of play in
the middle of what other peopleare doing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
So that is awesome.
You know, one other thing Ijust thought of Laura that our
audience can really benefit fromfor those we run into this a
lot with our deals.
So, knowing now that you justsaid this, you're in my brain
now and the next time one ofthese situation comes up for us.
But we have sellers right,we're dealing direct to seller
and one of the reasons theydon't list with a real estate
agent is because they don't.
They don't know their timelineRight and they don't know what
(45:04):
their next step is.
They want to buy a new housebut they haven't found their
next house yet, or whatever thecase is.
Those would be great people toconnect with Laura about and say
, hey, let's put you in one ofthese furnished, nice places for
a couple months and so you cantransition, either find another
place to rent or another place.
You know longer term rent orsomething.
So you know you're going to paya little bit more than what
(45:24):
you'd like, probably on along-term rental, but you're not
locked in for a year.
You got a short-term rental,you're in transition.
I mean it's a great opportunityto kind of bridge that gap with
some of your sellers out therethat need that next step, but
don't want to commit tosomething long-term.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, I wish every realtor would know who I was, so
they could be like oh yeah,we're friends, we'll put you in
there for a month and no worriesat all, you're totally covered
For sure.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Awesome.
Well, if you guys got value outof the show, share this episode
, because there's a lot ofnuggets in here Like Laura's
talking about.
If you guys know some realtors,put this in the earbuds.
If you guys know somearchitects, let's help Laura get
that architect here.
Let's use the audience here tohelp her get that person.
And let's help some of oursellers out there that need a
place to go and transition andthey're going to get that by
listening to the episodes.
(46:08):
I had a conversation a fewepisodes ago with a family.
They were one conversation thatsparked their real estate
journey and now they're able toquit their jobs, stay at home,
homeschool their kids and doreal estate full-time because of
one conversation and I thinkthat's what's important about
sharing these episodes is youguys, by sharing this, could be
the spark that changes anotherfamily in your network's life
(46:31):
forever, just because they heardone of these episodes and it
sparked an idea that then gotthe wheels turning, and we all
have that in real estate.
We all had a conversation withsomebody that got our wheels
turning and then, boom, westarted this.
And you guys, by sharing theepisode, could do that for
somebody else.
So, if you liked today'sepisode, share it.
If you didn't like it, share itanyway, because just because
(46:52):
you don't like it doesn't meansomebody else will right, right,
laura, get them out there.
Awesome guys.
Well, we'll put Laura's contactinfo in the show notes.
No-transcript.
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor and, asusual, I have another amazing
guest I'm going to be bringingyou guys today.
We just had a greatconversation.
We almost forgot to start thepodcast because we were talking
about so many cool things thatare going on that I'm excited to
bring you guys today.
But before we do, I want togive you guys a little bit of a
commercial here for WisconsinDiscount Properties, who's
(00:23):
sponsoring today's episode.
One of the deals we're going tobring up, we had a deal out to
our buyers list recently.
It was between New London andChiactin, kind of in the middle
of nowhere, on about an acre ofland, and nobody bought it on
the first one.
So I hear a lot of times wherepeople they say, ah, you guys
have too many buyers, I cannever get a deal right, why even
(00:43):
waste my time putting an offerin?
Well, here's one that nobodybought.
So we ended up talking tosomebody who does quite a few
flips.
They're going to pick it up andthey're going to do the flip
and they're expecting to makeabout 20,000 on this thing and
spend about 3,500 bucks in rehabon it.
So their profit per hour isgoing to be through the roof on
this thing.
So if you're looking for dealslike that, we have other ones
(01:04):
too.
There are big projects.
Laura, our guest today, who I'mgoing to introduce in a second,
knows all about the differentrange of properties and projects
we bring up.
But go towisconsindiscountpropertiescom,
put your information in andyou'll start getting deals sent
to your inbox every Mondaymorning.
And with that, let's get intotoday's episode.
Let's get into today's episode.
I have one of my favoritepeople that we do business with
(01:25):
here.
We've done quite a few dealstogether Laura Ritchie, on the
show today.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Laura.
What's cracking today?
Well, just buying houses andhave remodels going here and
there and have a churchmultifamily on hold.
Just kind of a little bit ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So many things we can dive into today Before we get
too much into the weeds.
You just closed down oneyesterday with us at the time of
this recording, correct?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, my husband's flying back from Belize so I
have to tell him about thathouse yet, so spoiler.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, this episode won't come out for a couple of
weeks, so he'll hopefully knowby then.
That's good.
There we go.
How did you get into realestate?
When did you get started?
Give us a little bit of thequick background story on you,
Laura, and how you got heretoday doing real estate full
time.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so I was like in media my whole life.
I kind of ran media companiesand did you know some
sponsorships and monetizationfor publishers around the nation
?
So kind of like a wholedifferent career, monetization
for publishers around the nation, so kind of like a whole
different career.
My husband was like was thekind of the head of the state
(02:32):
retention MCO for the army andwas working like a gazillion
hours a week and really, youknow, like a job with a lot of
responsibility and stress, and Ididn't want him to have to work
when he retired from the army.
I wanted him to have choicesand and so you know, to see what
life would be like, you know,when we're not, you know
grinding, and you know both ofus working so many hours and
(02:53):
stuff like that.
So I decided to like kind ofstart that little side hustle
and, um, we, our firstopportunity for a house was, um,
my, his mom actually, you know,was in transition and she was
getting older and she was goingfrom one house to another and
she, um, decided to put herhouse in our name, um, and so we
(03:16):
actually, you know it was ahundred thousand dollar house,
you know um, but we were able tothen leverage, you know some of
that um for a down payment onon also getting something Um.
So we you know she got herexact house, her whole situation
, you know um, but then she, herhouse, was protected from you
know some of some of thosethings that that could have you
(03:39):
know if she went got sick orsomething like that protected
from hospital kind of kind ofbills, um, so then she had that
protection.
You know she had her house soshe could, you know, give that
to her sons and stuff later, um,and then in the meanwhile we
were able to have just a littlemore equity to, you know, buy
our first unit, um, and you know, then I did a number of like
(04:03):
you know tradition or you knowkind of non-traditional
financing pieces in order togrow really, really fast and,
you know, get to where we aretoday.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Okay, and what year was that that you got the house
put in your name?
So?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
that first one, when I was just dabbling, as you know
, just a very light side hustle,was actually 2017.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, cool, very cool .
That's about when I got started.
I got started in 2016.
So we got started right aroundthe same time, and that's pretty
crazy.
And then it didn't take youlong to be doing this full time.
I mean, you left corporateAmerica in 2020, correct?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yep, january 1st 2020 .
So it was only a couple ofyears, and part of it was, like
you know, people like in thesegroups, you know, giving me like
really great opportunitieswhere they, you know, took a
chance on me and I, you know, Iwas able to do some creative
things in order to get intoproperties that I, you know,
(04:58):
like financially, banks wouldhave, you know, like I had no
business getting into.
Yet you know.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, let's talk about some of that.
Let's unpack that a little bit.
When you say you get, cause youyou know.
When we were talking a littlebit earlier, one of the things
that stood out to me, laura, isyou've been just you've through
your career it sounds likethrough pretty much your whole
life.
It sounds like you've used alot of grit, determination, just
kind of hard work like nottaking no to get to where you
are today.
Right, just figuring out a way.
Talk about some of the creativethings you had to do Like what
(05:26):
were some of those things to beable to grow that quickly, to be
able to leave corporate Americain three years.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, so that you know the first one was, you know
, more of a traditional play insome respects.
You know we just we leveraged alittle bit of equity and you
know anyone can do that, ofcourse.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Was that a HELOC, or was that a refinance?
Or how did you guys leveragethat equity?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
exactly, I don't remember.
We just, you know, used some ofthe equity in that house as the
down payment.
I don't remember the format ofthe loan, it was kind of a while
ago.
And then after that, the nextone.
There was a four unit apartmentbuilding, so that first
property ended up being anonconforming three unit.
So it was a du unit apartmentbuilding, so that that first
property ended up being anon-conforming three unit.
So it was a duplex and a housetogether.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
And I think it was like $136,000.
And what I ended up doing islike I was like I put it for
rent, like normal, and I tookpeople through.
I'm like, oh, they all want it.
And I'm like, no, this one'spretty nice.
I'm like I think I'm going todo something else with it.
And I, you know, went to thethrift stores and I, you know,
like you know, we were like thehillbillies and we had, you know
(06:31):
, harvested furniture.
I spray painted it in the yardand, you know, filled, filled
that unit, and you know, then wegot was like, well, I think I'm
going to do the same thing tothe upstairs one you know so,
little by little, and then,finally, then time went by a
little bit and I did the housenext door, so I had the three
furnished rentals and then anapartment building came up and
(06:55):
so, you know, I had my full timesales job with NBC and I had, I
think what I did was we, myhusband's a veteran and so he
was able to get a hundredpercent financing on our main
family house.
So we ended up cashing out onour main family house using that
(07:18):
veteran program and then we usethat like $90,000 of equity we
had in our house for our downpayment on a four unit apartment
building.
Then I was I needed to furnishand remodel it.
So I took a loan against my401k at that time while I was
working and then between, like,cousins and brothers and myself
(07:40):
spray painting cabinets, we,like you know, in the thrift
storing and all that you know,we had our next four.
You know, kind of lipstick on apig furnished housing at that
time.
It was so much easier because noone was doing it, sure.
And so now you know, I put likejust so much money into these
places and then it's like mylift is like nothing compared to
where it was.
Where.
Then, you know, I put my littlelipstick on it and I was like I
(08:03):
can, you know, make double themoney with spray paint you?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
know anymore.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Like.
That is not the state ofaffairs anymore.
But, yeah, I was just thinkingthat I could like spray paint my
way to like, you know, riches,and it was.
It started out that way.
Um, and then after that, I hada seven unit, um and uh, jason
Lund, who you know does similarthings to you with like the
wholesaling he had gotten youknow this, this unique seven
(08:33):
unit property that's almost likecondos together, you know like
in its layout they had garages.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
It was an odd townhouse style.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, it was like a neat property and one of
them, you know, was like almostlike a garage, you know.
One had like hole on the floor,one had like a hoarder
situation, there was like allkinds of stuff.
And then there was like fourjust kind of, but you know the
it was like six $700 rents youknow there at that time, and
then some that were kind of justsomewhat abandoned or whatever.
(09:03):
And I was like I think I gavehim $50,000 down which I got
from, I think, maybe anotherloan from my home equity, and
then also like a big commissionthat I got on like a sponsorship
sale.
So I put that money down withhim and he's like I had four
(09:23):
months basically to get it niceenough to refinance it, pay him
the 350,000 he was selling it tome for.
I ended up actually getting90,000 back at the table and
then that property is now worthlike $1.1 million.
(09:43):
And it has leveraged me intoprobably 50 units since then.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Wow, that is crazy.
So one of the things I want tounpack this for a second.
There was a lot right there,laura, for the audience to hear.
So that one you did like theultimate burr right when you
burred it, but then you also gota check for 90K at the
refinance four months later.
Wow, so you paid your.
Think of those of us out therethat do flips, right, I'm a big
(10:10):
buy and hold person myself, butwe flip properties from time to
time, right, and I know a lot ofpeople that listen to the show
flip properties.
We have a lot of buyers thatflip properties, but the
ultimate flip is the one thatyou flip to yourself and you
collect a check for $90,000tax-free unless you sell it.
But in the moment, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
like you know that 90 has to pay for, like you know,
my flooring and you know likethat that's paying me back, so
it's paying you back myrevolving debt, because I use a
lot of that as well.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So this wasn't all 90 K coming in the just sitting in
your bank account.
This was to pay you back, butultimately you were able to make
these things way nicer, rightand really improve the property
to a point now where you took soyou were all in for how much
about four, four, 40 into thatthing.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, I kind of feel like whatever I got back, I
ultimately put back into it, butat the same time that thing
just continued to like produceequity to be able to get into
other things.
So I mean that you know, a lotof my stuff have been refinanced
a million times and, you know,I think people have different
appetites for risk and I thinkmy appetite for risk is like I
(11:24):
think there's maybe somethingwrong with me that I I can't
just like like let's just getlife to the point that you're
not having like an elephant onyour chest and you're, you know,
like you're able to just havelike a normal amount of stress,
like I'm not sure why I needlike so much stress, that I have
to have, you know, like fourlions ready to rip my throat out
(11:45):
at any given time, but I justmust need that, because right
about the time when I think like, oh I, I can see like
stabilization, like you know, ayear out, or whatever, I do like
10 things that are questionable.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I know my wife's like that too.
She's like when are we evergonna just slow down?
I'm like we will honey someday,I promise we'll slow down.
And then I'm like oh, shinyobject over here, let's go do
that Right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Like my Amazon card, only their houses, which is like
the worst.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Exactly.
Oh, that's amazing.
So, but now let's look at theequity on that.
So you went, let's say it'sworth 1.1.
Let's say you were all in for500,000, just for easy math,
right?
You don't have six hundredthousand dollars of equity.
You created that you were thenable to leverage into 50 units,
right, which is the totalportfolio of.
That's got to be worth overfive million, right?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yes, so I'm at.
I'm at eighty five unitsoverall.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
OK.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Across the four businesses, not that that one
property you know got into allthose, but it and I think it's
about like thirteen, fourteenmillion.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Wow, that's amazing.
So what we're what I want tounpack there, laura, cause we
talked you just mentioned itPeople have different risk
tolerance levels, right, and oneof the things when I'm talking
to a potential new buyer for usor somebody who just needs some
coaching or something like that,that's one of the first things
that we need to talk about islike, how aggressively do you
want to grow?
Like, how intense is yourdesire to get from A to B?
(13:07):
Because you're going to do somethings like what Laura's
talking about here.
You're going to get scrappy,you're going to leverage things,
you're leveraging 401ks, you'releveraging houses, you're 100%
financed on a house.
I mean, for some people thatwould make them just keel over
and you're just like, yeah,bring it on, let's get as much
leverage as possible.
I'm very similar.
I'm like leverage the heck outof this and let's keep growing.
Because to me, the way I lookat it is as soon as I can buy
(13:29):
that property, the sooner I canbuy that property and get
tenants in there, the clockstarts ticking for me on
building equity right, theappreciation goes up, the tenant
pay down goes this way and Istart to create I don't know how
to do it on the camerabackwards.
But you create I call it thewealth cone, right?
You just start here andeventually your spread just
becomes like this and you, youcan really not know what you're
(13:51):
doing in this industry.
That well and over time, timemakes you look like a genius, as
if, and the buying whole thingRight, and so I think what
you're doing, I'm more probablysided with you, but I know
there's people that listen tothis that are like I just want
one duplex a year.
I'm going to put my 20, 25%down.
I want to.
I want a turnkey type thing,side-by-side duplex, and that's
(14:12):
all they want and that's great.
That's just maybe a little bitslower path to the goal, and
that's okay If their risktolerance is not where your eyes
probably is on the spectrum andI think I may have met my match
here for risk tolerance, Ithink you're out even further
than I am tolerance scale, whichis awesome, so I love that I
want to talk about now.
Earlier you mentioned that youhave four different businesses
(14:33):
and the way that you categorizedit, uh, I'm assuming, means
like you have four differententities that do different
things but are kind of alignedRight and talk about those and
what the goal with those is,because I think this is a really
cool thing for people to bethinking about, like just how
big can you?
For those of you that are likegosh, I just got to get my first
property Right it's like, ok,cool, yes, let's get from zero
to one.
(14:54):
But then think bigger pictureof, like, what real estate can
do for not just yourself but foryour family.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Let's talk a little bit about that.
Let's talk about what you'vedone now with these different
businesses and how you've usedthat to help your family.
Yeah, so my front facingbusiness is Appleton Corporate
Housing, and so that's kind ofjust like my DBA.
And then I have four, like yousaid, llcs.
The one LLC is, you know, myhusband and I's and we have, you
know, maybe like 75 units inthat one.
And then I also do businessesfor my parents and my son and my
daughter, and so with myparents, they, you know, we were
(15:35):
looking at kind of like their.
Some salespeople came to theirdoor about, you know, investing
and like getting some moreinsurance policies and something
that you know financialadvising and all that kind of
stuff.
And my mom called me.
She's like what do you think?
And I'm like well, I basicallymade her like a little story, um
(15:55):
, about splitting hostas becauseshe likes to garden.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Um and I, I explained to her what I wanted to do for
her retirement by basicallysplitting her hostas, and so she
had a little.
She had a little rental thatwas paid off, that was down the
street.
So they had this one littledabble that they had done.
But their 401k.
If they would have continuedtheir rate of spending, I think
they would have been out, Idon't know, maybe seven, eight
(16:21):
years.
They probably would have liketightened their belts and had to
, you know, just livedifferently and whatever.
But what I was like, you knowlike, if we cash this out and we
leverage this little, you know,$100,000 or whatever rental
that you have, I can get anapartment building in Appleton
(16:42):
and then I will do my furnishedrentals there for you.
So basically we did, you know,we bought a building, you know I
completely remodeled it with myteam my team takes all the
credit, of course, not me and sowe remodeled it, we furnished
it, we did all that stuff.
And now you know they have thisyou know little five unit
portfolio, but you know they geta $4,000 check from their.
(17:05):
You know little five unitportfolio, but you know they get
a $4,000 check from their youknow respective businesses every
month and that is, you know,just a little more than what
they would have were you knowwould have had before between
like what they would get withtheir 401k per month and then
the rental that they had and so.
But instead you know that nowit's and so, but instead you
know that now it's and westarted that in 2021.
(17:27):
And now they've gained back thathouse equity that was leveraged
.
They haven't gained back thewhole 401k that was kind of
cashed out but that you knowwill be caught up in you know, a
couple of years.
They'll have gained back theequity that they cashed out on
the 401k.
They'll have gained back theequity that they cashed out on
(17:48):
the 401k, but instead of itemptying, you know, like we look
ahead three years where itwould have been like if they had
that same rate of spending,they would have been out.
Instead they have thisperpetual, you know, check that
they're getting, and you knowI'm not making any money off
this business, so it's just kindof like extra work, but then,
at the same time, you know it isproviding for my family's
future too, because you know, asyour parents get older and
eventually, sadly, you know,aren't with us anymore, then you
(18:11):
know that's also, you know,inheritance that my brother and
I will have.
That has been, you know, anincrease in equity for for all
of our family in the generations, rather than a depletion that
would have been happening.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
That is so awesome and I think, what's important
for people to realize here.
Laura, as you're talking, I'mthinking about my parents, right
, and I don't know their fullfinancial picture.
They do some real estateinvesting as well.
We've gotten them started withsome things.
They do some passive stuff withsome real estate investing or
other people that do real estateinvesting and that kind of
thing.
But what you're talking aboutis so important.
With a lot of the technologyand medical advances and AI and
(18:48):
all this other stuff.
You know there's a lot of peopledepending who you listen to
that talk about our lifespan andhow it's going to increase
dramatically uh, soon, right,with all the advances, and
people who are planning forretirement 10 years ago.
They may have to plan muchlonger now than what they had
anticipated, even late later inlife, if there's fortunate
enough to not have any majorissues at this point.
And what you're doing is you'reusing the leverage and equity
(19:13):
that they built and helping themjust split the hostas.
I love that.
You're helping them multiply.
You took one, turned it to five,right?
I mean, that's amazing.
And now that thing doesn'tmatter what happens in their
four-year-old, like you weresaying, they can just spend the
same amount of money every monththat they were spending.
But that nest egg isn'tdepleting to the point, it's
just continuing.
It's probably it's increasingbecause of what we talked about
with the wealth cone.
Eventually you could probablyre-leverage that property again
(19:36):
if you needed to pull some moreequity back out and go split
some more hostas or just givethem a nice little nest egg to
hang on, go play with right.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, their portfolio now is at a place that we could
do that again.
Like you know, it's definitelyready that we could do that
again.
And you know, that's kind of aneat one in that, like you don't
have to have gotten to thatpoint that you have built your
own equity yet.
If you're, like, you know, aninvestor, you know 30s or you
know however old, and you'relike, geez, you know I want to
(20:07):
help my parents and I want tohelp myself, like how can we
work together where we take someof my willingness to you know,
do the work and be scrappy andhustle and then use what my
parents bring to the table oryour parents bring to the table,
this equity that you know maybea younger person hasn't built
(20:27):
up yet and then you guys can,you can win together.
And I think you know that canbe tricky with families,
sometimes Like, well, I have areally nice dynamic you know and
trust with and they've also,they've also gotten to see what
I was building for so long thatthere was a comfort level there.
It might be a little moredifficult if you're just
starting, but at the same time,I think it's like a conversation
(20:51):
really worth having andthinking about with, like
looking at your parents'retirement.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Totally, and my mom was my first investor in
property, so my first duplex Iever bought I had.
I got fired from a job,surprise, surprise, and I had a
I think it was like a profitshare thing that was sitting in
an IRA, so I just pulled thatout.
I didn't have hardly any gains,so there was really no penalty
to pull it out.
And then my mom had the rest ofit and she put the money in and
(21:17):
I gave her, I think, 12%interest on her cash or
something like that while wewere remodeling it until we
could refinance and pay her back.
And then I think it's likethree or four other deals she
ended up investing with me andwhile I was growing the
portfolio so it was great shegot to get a 12% return on her
cash that she was maybe earningat the time, like three or 4% on
(21:41):
.
Oh, that's great, a win-win forboth of you.
Yeah, everybody wins and allthat and that's one Hard money.
Lenders are an awesome resource,but I tell people like have as
many buckets of money aspossible that you can tap into
and use them strategicallydepending on what you got going
on, and you never want to miss agood deal just because you
didn't have financing set up oran option to fund the deal,
right.
So that's some of the things,and friends and family are some
(22:03):
of the best.
I know people get weird aboutasking their friends or family,
but really you're giving them anopportunity to grow their cash.
You know, as long as you feelcomfortable, you're going to pay
it back, right?
That's Thanksgiving.
Could get weird.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's an area I do struggle with a little is
because, like a lot of timesthere, there are really good
opportunities where I'm like youknow, I know this person, you
know this aunt or this friend oryou know this neighbor, what
you know, whoever it might be,I'm like this is a great
opportunity where it's like youcould make more than what you
are and I can get.
(22:36):
I can turn it back out to youpretty quickly.
But there is like anawkwardness, you know, like I
don't like to sell products youknow, and on, you know, to my
friends and family and stufflike that.
Not against anyone who's doingthat, but you know, I've had to
do so much sales in my life forother things that I've tried to
like not do so much with myfriends and family, but it's
(22:59):
like, at the same time, ifyou're like they can just have
$5,000 they didn't have twomonths from now, it's like, you
know, once in a while I'll, I'llask, like I'll throw that out
there to someone.
And I was talking to one of mygirlfriends the other day and
I'm like, I'm like this is how Iasked this but I'm like, but I
feel like such a bottom feederyou know just because you know
(23:19):
you have that.
Like you know, are you thisworthy investor that's you know.
So that is.
That is something that Istruggle with when it's people
that I know because also likethe personality of you know,
your like fun Island self isn'talways the business person.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Well, they know your history right.
They know, they know.
They know.
They know all the good and thebad if they know you well enough
.
It's reminding me of a storyfor those, for those of you out
there, who read the Bible.
There's a good story in therewhere Jesus comes back to
Nazareth and he's trying topreach and he says you know, no,
no, prof.
I don't remember what the lineis, but basically no prophets
worthy in his own town, in hisown town, or he can't do
(23:55):
miracles in his own town becauseyou know they're like wait,
aren't you the carpenter?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, buffett, right?
It's kind of a similar thingfor for some of us with with
family, right, that's thatactually there's a lot of truth
to that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Because you wouldn't want to be a prophet, like where
you went to high school, or,you know, like I just feel like,
if you know I I couldn't betrying to like sell investments
to like my old high school class, like you know, like the
messiest locker and late for onething I have found, laura and I
don't know if this is helpfulfor you, the audience, but one
thing I have found that has beenreally helpful is again kind of
(24:29):
that mindset shift right Oflike, wait a minute, I'm
actually doing them a favor bybringing them into this.
So like, instead of me chasingthem and saying like, ooh, I'm
going to go sell them something,I'm like, wait a minute, I have
an amazing opportunity overhere for them to help grow their
cash.
They're getting 3% over here.
I can give them 10% or 12% orwhatever it is.
Or if you're going to give themsome equity in the deal or
whatever, the case is right,whatever you work out with them.
(24:51):
The other thing I've done is thekind of the old third party ask
right.
So when you go up to somebodyno-transcript, and inevitably if
(25:13):
that person you're talking toyour aunt or your friend or
whatever has cash sitting on thesideline, they're going to be
like, ah, yeah, hey, right here.
And you're like, oh, really,okay, cool, I didn't want to,
you know, with family and stuff,but now I would love to work
with you if you want, want toget involved, and inevitably if
they have cash sitting on thesidelines.
It's like shooting fish in abarrel it works every time and
you feel good about it too, likeI don't feel ever bad about
(25:35):
asking a fan or saying it thatway to a family member.
It's the indirect ask and takesa little bit of the pressure off
and a little bit of the steamoff of like asking somebody.
It's more of like, hey, it'sopportunity.
Do you know anybody that wouldwant to get involved in it?
And then boom, they're.
Usually, if they have cashsitting there, they're, they're
going to raise it and if not,they'll go.
Oh, I don't know.
Let me actually yeah, my buddyover here that I know he's
(25:56):
always talking about investing.
You know, one way or another,either get a referral to
somebody else or they'llinevitably want to invest with
you.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So no, that's that's, that's good advice, for sure,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I've seen it work with some of the other people.
That's worked for me, butanyway, well, so okay, what does
the future look like for you,laura?
So you've got 85 units, youhave a church you're working on
right now.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe church project and I know
this is this is for some of youout there A lot of times you
talk about all the successes.
This one is one of thoseelephants Laura's chest.
Let's talk about that a littlebit.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, so we bought.
So I bought a church and it wasone of my marketplace impulse
buys and I have.
So I was like not looking atreal estate listings.
I'm like I'm stabilizing, Iwill not allow myself to open
any emails or anything relatedto real estate listings.
Well, my daughter sent me a linkfrom marketplace on this church
(26:52):
and so I opened it and then itwas like, and it was like, oh,
seller financing.
And I was like, anytime I canjust like not have to call a
bank and just like own something.
I have trouble not just doingthat, regardless of what it is.
And this church was, you knowit has, you know it's great.
You know it's a great hugebuilding.
(27:14):
It's 10,000 square feet.
It's actually 12,000 squarefeet.
you add that third, you know youtake the balcony across part of
the way and add that that level, because we're doing, um, like
three full levels okay um, andthen we are going to take some
of the parking lot and make abank of garages and do a few
little penthouses over those, soit's a 16 unit project, um, and
(27:37):
you know, like, just the demoon it, um, ended up just being
like way more than you know,invasive than what I thought
Like originally.
I just thought we could justlike rough in some units and you
know, and, and if I would havejust rented it to the group of
people I had and just let themuse that little kitchen and just
(27:57):
spend, like, just use the space, kind of like I thought I could
just right out of the gates.
But instead we, we dug in andwe started demoing and we had
this, you know, big vision forwhat we wanted to do, um, and
the vision of it is it's uh, myhusband came up with the idea of
operation foxhole because he'sum, he's a veteran, um, um, and
(28:20):
we want to have this, thisbuilding, this multi-unit um, to
have first priority to um,veterans and, and then you know,
the floors that are handicapaccessible, disabled veterans,
um, and you know, have like akind of a flight of placements
where, you know, first of all weserve, you know, that
population and try to you knowanyone who's looking for housing
(28:43):
and those groups and then youknow kind of open the remaining
ones to to the public.
So so there's like some, youknow positive, you know there
too, but we've actually gotten.
You know I owe.
It was so much on this building, it's like very stressful.
So it's a situation where Ican't sell it for what I owe
(29:03):
right now and so I have to getthe financing to get the project
done.
And you know, the cashflow isthere, the end project's there,
the plan is all there, but it'sjust a matter of then.
You know they see that kind ofwreck hulk of a interior,
(29:27):
because you're at that phasewhere it gets worse before it
gets better.
For sure you know, you have like.
You know, you scrape the bonesand you're ready to.
You know, just stack your units.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
And you've done a lot of like infrastructure kind of
stuff and bought.
You know, like, we bought the ACand you know heating, cooling
and all this, spoilers and justwe have all this stuff, um, but
we just need to like get to thatnext place.
So I, you know, working on SBAloans and grants and stuff like
that, and, um, I also have beenenjoying my life, so that has
(30:01):
also slowed things down.
So, um, you know, my, so mychurch right now is just kind of
in a holding pattern.
Um, while I get long-termfinancing so I can pay my hard
money, lender back the initialinvestment, and right now I'm
just kind of paying her monthlyinterest, um, so that's kind of
sucking some money out of mypocket in the short term.
(30:22):
But but we will get there.
It's just, you know, going totake longer than I thought and
there's there's definitely morehurdles with having to get like
architects and structuralengineers and a bunch of things
that we weren't aware that wewould have to do.
But as it got kicked up to astate level, from two units to
13 units, like, everythingchanges and there's just a lot
(30:44):
more involved.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So, yeah, is do you have to get an elevator and
sprinkler system in, or is itnot?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
so that's that's.
One of the other things is likeum, not an elevator okay god, I
hope not an elevator, um, but uh, sprinkler systems or something
.
You know the sprinkler system,the architect and one of the
things that I'm looking for.
So maybe this will go in theuniverse.
And so the architectural quotethat I have is higher than what
(31:11):
I want to pay for what I kind ofneed, because I basically need
someone to work with a statethat's got that architectural
stamp to just kind of sign off,because we know what we want to
do and we've had the structuralengineer already.
You know, kind of tell us whatwe can do, ok, but we need the
architect basically just to drawwhat we already know we're
(31:33):
going to do.
Ok, but then work hand in handwith the state to make sure
everything's compliant.
And we have those like littlecode things all the way through
with the state to make sureeverything's compliant.
And we have those like littlecode things all the way through.
And it is a lot of hours andthe size of the facility.
But I kind of need someone who,like, has that stamp that maybe
worked for a firm but is maybeindependent or between projects,
that wants to take something on, that can do it for, you know,
(31:55):
still a nice price but a lotless than when you're working
with the whole firm.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
For sure.
Yeah, cool, well, this will goout.
So, yeah, if you share thepodcast or you know our audience
, hopefully we'll share thisepisode with their, with their
folks, and hopefully get theword out.
Or if they know somebody, letus know, we'll get.
We'll drop your contact info atthe end, laura, and we'll put
it in the show notes too.
So if anybody gets anything orknows anybody, we can reach out
directly to you, and that'd beawesome to make a little
connection here through the showfor you.
(32:21):
So what are some things so youmentioned?
Is this the first time you'vedone one of these?
You know, kind of biggerconversion type projects?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, I feel like it's been like a negative
learning process for me.
I don't know that I want to doany more of these Um, I don't
know that I want to do any moreof these Um.
I just, I like I kind of likethe quick hit of like it's sort
of like my drug, where I like,you know, like I can go on your
(32:50):
site or I can, you know, one ofmy other wholesalers can call me
and be like Laura, I got thisgreat deal, and then I can like
have that impulse buy, like myAmazon card, I can buy the house
and then, you know, we can sendour guys in and we can pick out
some fancy tile and we can, youknow, you know, do a few things
to upgrade it and then get itout there and so, like those are
(33:11):
fun.
Like I like kind of like thatfast, little you know, hit of
adrenaline and you know, havinga new, new thing that's starting
to build equity, like this,this long process, like I don't
I want to build my empire, likeyou know, with one trailer of
old furniture at a time.
I don't think I want to do likethe whole, like actually
(33:33):
building it.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
For sure you and I were talking about that.
I think you and I are moresimilar the longer we talk,
laura, because I'm like that too.
I'm like ooh.
That's why I love wholesaling,because for me it's just got the
deal, sell the deal, got thedeal, sell the deal, got the
deal, sell the deal.
Now, I'm not building anywealth doing that, but it's fun
and I enjoy doing it.
(33:55):
Same thing with rentals I loveit, I can buy it, I can send've
got a tenant in there.
I didn't have to go in andswing any hammers because I'm
terrible at that, so I let themdo it all and boom, I go find
the next one.
I find deals, I find money, easypeasy.
I have a project right nowwhere we might have to demo the
house because it's pretty roughand we might have to build a new
one.
Well, now we're dealingwithback issues and so now we
(34:18):
might have to move the whole newhouse to a new slab and all
this other stuff.
So the costs are just likeracking up.
Now I'm okay with it, because Ido have interest in new
construction and thinking aboutlike what if I just started
building new houses?
Right, it's just another avenue.
This is my shiny object kickingin.
So I'm learning and it's notgonna like kill me, but I hate
(34:43):
the process of it, like I justdon't like.
I don't like rules and dealingwith it.
I'm like why do we have a 40foot setback?
Why, who made that rule?
This is dumb.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I'm just trying to replace the house that was there
with a better house.
Just let me do it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I don't, so I don't play well with rules.
Yeah, I think it's the same,exact that personality profile
for sure For sure, 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Let's go back to when you got started.
We talked a little bit aboutthis, and when we were talking
about having you on the show,one of the things you brought up
was the midterm rentalenvironment right now, and so I
think this is important foreverybody.
You know again, not everythingwe do in real estate is roses
and rainbows and everything's up, up, up, up up all the time,
right, we're seeing this in theshort-term rental space too,
with a lot of our short-termrentals.
(35:21):
Those have been down the lastcouple of years.
What are you seeing in themidterm?
And maybe can you just definewhat midterm is for those out
there that don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, so we were kind of leaders in the area in that,
with Appleton Corporate Housing, the midterm rental space which
usually the leases are anaverage of, you know, just like
a couple months, and people arehere.
You know, during COVID that wasa really big thing because you
had so many of the travel nursesand you know there's also
(35:55):
contract workers and there's,you know, construction groups.
You know, when a bunch of guyscome up from Mexico and they're
doing roofs, they need a placeto stay and you know that motel
environment isn't as nice forthem as a big house or like a
whole apartment building.
So there's all different kindsof groups.
You've got, you know, assistedliving.
You've got, you know, all thesedifferent people who are in
transition that need a furnishedplace for a certain period of
time and for a long time.
(36:17):
When I first started out, sincethere was no competition, you
know people were either doingAirbnbs or they were doing
long-term rentals.
Like I said, I was able to.
You know, like I could spraypaint something and now it's,
like, you know, making threetimes more money, but now I have
it's the opposite.
So now you know I have, like Ibought that 16 unit property
(36:40):
from from you guys and had Ijust kept it like it, you know,
because it was a nice property,yeah, and I kind of kept it
where it was and just like,nudge the rents up, I would
actually be in a better spacewith that building.
Then I spent another milliondollars on it and there's, like
you know, waterfall granitecountertops and built in.
(37:01):
You know, like, if you've notbeen to my website, like those
units are just insane howbeautiful they are and they were
great for a corporate clientwhen there was that business.
But it got oversaturated becauseother people you know the long
term people saw like, oh,they're making that much money,
let's move some of our placesinto that.
The Airbnb people said it's apain in the ass to do three days
(37:24):
and then have to turn it andturn it and turn it and turn it.
Let's rent to travel nurses.
Well, so everybody got in thatspace and now it's to the point
that you know I'm including thefurniture and I, you know it's
like I probably could get almostthe same exact amount on just
an empty rental.
So I'm actually trying to get asmany long-term leases as I can
(37:46):
at a lower rate than what I wasgetting in 2017 with my first
corporate rentals that were notthis huge investment, that were
my spray painting years, were myspray painting years.
So, like the difference andwhere that's gone down to and my
lift is you know not where itis now.
You know you're also talking tome in spring.
(38:07):
So spring, laura, is muchsadder state of affairs.
I'm like a little more humble,which I'm not that humble, um,
and just like a little more likebeaten down.
But then end of summer, laurais, like you know, rags to
riches.
So it kind of depends on whattime of the year that you talk
to me.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So at the time we're recording this again, we have 12
Airbnbs and most I think 10 arein Wisconsin and yeah, it's the
same.
We're like, oh my gosh, I gotto put more money back in that
account.
I have to fund this LLC again.
Dang it, this is terrible.
And then at the end of summerfall, I'm like, wow, airbnb is
the best thing ever.
I love it 100%.
(38:49):
We're very similar.
The longer this goes on, we'relike twins, just opposite gender
here.
That's awesome.
So I think that's important.
What was really smart when, whenit was going really well, is
you bought a 16 unit, whichthose are valued based off of an
income approach, and so whenyou were talking about leverage
right.
What's great about that is youcan create a ton of equity by
(39:10):
juicing up that income approach,right, if you can get the
appraiser to base it off of whatyou're either projecting you're
going to do with the midtermrental rent, which is going
something like that, and thenthat juices up your income, and
(39:30):
so in the appraiser values that,you're getting a much, much
higher appraisal.
During the heyday of themidterm that you were doing.
But the downside is now, if youdon't have those things filled,
you step all this money intothem and made them awesome
probably best long-termapartments in town.
Yeah, not going to get quitethe return that you were getting
(39:50):
before, right?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, and you know I've got, you know, five
construction workers from downSouth that are, you know, I'm,
I'm, I'm taking everybody youknow, like, just like five
individual people that are doingroofs.
Are, you know, going into, um,you know, a place with granite
waterfall countertops and it'slike, well, I gotta, you know
(40:13):
I'm thinking of actually goingaround town with flyers and
everyone who's on a roof beinglike, hey, I've got some
furnished housing for you, let'sget you guys out of these
motels.
And, um, you know, fill my,fill my open doors.
So I think that's my, my nextum feet, feet on the ground
campaign.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
So I love it, I love it.
Well, let's get where.
I know you got a busy day todaytoo, probably, and we got to
get wrapping here.
We always like to end with akind of a fun question, laura.
So we always ask and this iswhy we do this, by the way is
you know?
We have people outside ofWisconsin that are looking to
invest in Wisconsin, that listento the show, invest in
Wisconsin, listen to the showand you know, just for all of us
(40:48):
Wisconsinites, we like to heardifferent spots, so we like to
kind of tell people a little bitmore about this great state
that we invest in if they aren'tas familiar.
Do you have?
Or what is your favoriteWisconsin tradition or place to
visit?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, I grew up in Portage at least like my high
school and stuff years and so myhome, like where my heart is,
is actually the Wisconsin River.
So we have in Portage, which islike 15 minutes from Wisconsin
Dells, you know we've got likesandbars and you know we always
played a lot of like home runderby on the sandbars and stuff
(41:24):
like that.
And so we have a cottage inWisconsin Dells at, and so we
have a cottage in WisconsinDells and so just you know, like
taking a pontoon boat out, youknow, or taking one of the Dells
boat tours and going into likethose majestic cliffs, you know
that is like one of only aboutthree places in the world that
has like those kind of like rockformations, and you know
(41:47):
Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Dells.
Sometimes people think oh,wisconsin dells.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
You know the water parks and tourism and you know
crap downtown or whatever.
But um, there is like thereason that the dells became the
dells is because of themajestic beauty of the wisconsin
river and, um, you know, I gohome fishing with my dad all the
time, so, you know, catch a lotof walleyes out of that river
and then eat them, which iswonderful.
(42:11):
And so, uh, yeah, just being onthe sandbars and, you know,
throwing something that floatsdown the river for a few hours,
that's kind of, I think, myWisconsin recommendation you
know you're the first one Ithink you're going to be like
episode 30 ish somewhere inthere.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
First one to bring up the Wisconsin river.
Oh, okay, we've had the dells.
I think we've had the dellsmaybe once, but not in the same
light they had.
You know, they're a water perky.
Uh, recommendation where I likeI forgot about, like we love
the dells and I love doing theboat tour and it is, it's like
amazing the different rockformations.
We live in door county, whichhas some pretty cool rocks but
totally different than what yousee on the river, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah there's, there's a really good.
You probably have done that onethat like the cave, that cave
kayaking trap up in Door County,Like that's a really, really
beautiful one.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
We had one scheduled and it was like really wavy and
rainy that day and then we justnever rescheduled.
They canceled it.
We never rescheduled it.
Sad, I know.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I needed it.
I took my daughter and herniece on that, or my daughter
and like my husband, which is aother family relative, and yeah,
that was like such an amazingday, so you have to schedule
that this summer.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I got to be more of a tourist this summer.
Yeah Well, laura, thank you somuch for being on today.
There was so much in here.
I think our audience is goingto love this episode, but if
somebody wants to get you thatconnection to the architect, or
they want to connect with youabout anything that you're
willing to share with them,what's the best way for them to
reach you?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
So you can email me.
Okay, email me, and my email isLaura L-A-U-R-A at my website
address, which is apcohocom.
It's A-P as in Peter C-O-H-Ocom.
So, Laura, at apcohocom, and Iwill say I do have a lot of
(44:03):
furnished rentals available andwe serve, you know, Oshkosh, um,
most of Northeast Wisconsin.
You know we've got a lot ingreen Bay, tons and tons of
Appleton and even individuallike Kimberly, Hakana and some
of these like smallercommunities around here.
Um, so, and we do work with youknow, if you're a construction
company, we will actually houseyour whole work crew for you.
(44:26):
Um, and you know, take some ofthose risks.
We will accept your pets ifyou're in transition, trying to
find your forever home.
So we take risks on a lot ofthose things that a lot of
people don't do, and that's whywe kind of we kind of play in
the middle of what other peopleare doing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
So that is awesome.
You know, one other thing Ijust thought of Laura that our
audience can really benefit fromfor those we run into this a
lot with our deals.
So, knowing now that you justsaid this, you're in my brain
now and the next time one ofthese situation comes up for us.
But we have sellers right,we're dealing direct to seller
and one of the reasons theydon't list with a real estate
agent is because they don't.
They don't know their timelineRight and they don't know what
(45:04):
their next step is.
They want to buy a new housebut they haven't found their
next house yet, or whatever thecase is.
Those would be great people toconnect with Laura about and say
, hey, let's put you in one ofthese furnished, nice places for
a couple months and so you cantransition, either find another
place to rent or another place.
You know longer term rent orsomething.
So you know you're going to paya little bit more than what
(45:24):
you'd like, probably on along-term rental, but you're not
locked in for a year.
You got a short-term rental,you're in transition.
I mean it's a great opportunityto kind of bridge that gap with
some of your sellers out therethat need that next step, but
don't want to commit tosomething long-term.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, I wish every realtor would know who I was, so
they could be like oh yeah,we're friends, we'll put you in
there for a month and no worriesat all, you're totally covered
For sure.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Awesome.
Well, if you guys got value outof the show, share this episode
, because there's a lot ofnuggets in here Like Laura's
talking about.
If you guys know some realtors,put this in the earbuds.
If you guys know somearchitects, let's help Laura get
that architect here.
Let's use the audience here tohelp her get that person.
And let's help some of oursellers out there that need a
place to go and transition andthey're going to get that by
listening to the episodes.
(46:08):
I had a conversation a fewepisodes ago with a family.
They were one conversation thatsparked their real estate
journey and now they're able toquit their jobs, stay at home,
homeschool their kids and doreal estate full-time because of
one conversation and I thinkthat's what's important about
sharing these episodes is youguys, by sharing this, could be
the spark that changes anotherfamily in your network's life
(46:31):
forever, just because they heardone of these episodes and it
sparked an idea that then gotthe wheels turning, and we all
have that in real estate.
We all had a conversation withsomebody that got our wheels
turning and then, boom, westarted this.
And you guys, by sharing theepisode, could do that for
somebody else.
So, if you liked today'sepisode, share it.
If you didn't like it, share itanyway, because just because
(46:52):
you don't like it doesn't meansomebody else will right, right,
laura, get them out there.
Awesome guys.
Well, we'll put Laura's contactinfo in the show notes.
No-transcript.
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