May 21, 2025 • 59 mins
Real estate success takes more than great deals—it takes strategy, partnerships, and a mindset built for the long game. In this episode of The Wisconsin Investor, Corey Reyment sits down with Leon Barnes, longtime investor and Membership Director at Collective Genius, to talk about what it really takes to grow a rental portfolio that lasts.
Leon shares how he’s used the BRRRR strategy (Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat) to build a portfolio with “infinite returns,” pulling his original capital back out while keeping the cash-flowing assets. With sharp insights and zero sugarcoating, he explains why passive income isn’t truly passive—and why managing rentals requires patience, leverage, and smart systems.
They dive deep into market trends in the Midwest, from cap rates to cash flow stability, and how areas like Wisconsin and Kansas offer room for growth and forgiveness when mistakes happen. Along the way, Leon shares his approach to business partnerships, emphasizing alignment of goals and clear communication: “It’s not just about you winning—it’s about everyone winning.”
Leverage is a constant theme—whether it’s financial, relational, or operational—and Leon shows how tapping into mentorship and community through groups like Collective Genius can accelerate your growth far beyond what you could do alone.
Looking to grow your own portfolio? Start connecting with serious investors through REI Success Club in Green Bay or browse off-market properties at wisconsindiscountproperties.com.
👉 Learn more about Leon and apply to join Collective Genius at www.thecollectivegenius.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor and, asusual, I have an amazing guest
for you guys today.
I'll introduce him here in asecond.
As usual, I'm going to also doa little commercial for our
sponsor, Wisconsin DiscountProperties.
Today I'm going to talk about adeal that we had out to our
(00:21):
buyers this recently.
That, I think, is a great deal,and here's why we put it out
for $265,000 was the ARV.
This was an upper-lower duplexhere in Green Bay on Winford
Avenue.
We just heard back from thebuyer that had an ARV appraisal
done on this and the ARVappraisal came back at $270,000.
(00:42):
So we were a little bit under.
We're trying to be conservativewith these ARVs folks, but this
buyer is going to be able toburr this thing.
They might have five grandstuck in it, so it's not a
complete burr, but theircash-on-cash return if they have
5,000 stuck into it is going tobe incredible.
Three-bedroom up orthree-bedroom lower, it's going
to be a beautiful thing.
And so we have deals like thatevery single week.
(01:12):
Guys, If you are looking foroff-market deals that you can
burr out of or get close toburring out of, and you're
looking to build that rentalportfolio.
Get on our buyers list,wisconsindiscountpropertiescom.
Put your information in.
You're going to add it to thebuyers list and you'll hear from
somebody from our team eithermyself, Reese or Connor to talk
about your goals and get youconnected to the folks that you
need to be connected to toaccelerate that growth in your
portfolio.
With that, let me introduce myman, Neon Leon Barnes.
What's up, Mr Barnes?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I haven't heard Neon Leon since probably junior high,
my friend, so it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, I like to throw a little curveball.
Nicknames at people right awayto see how they react right out
of the gates on these.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sometimes nicknames on people right away to see how
they react right out of thegates on these sometimes.
So yeah, so you know, when Iwas in middle school we had
junior high.
Back then um, that's how longago it was.
Uh, deon sanders was, you know,in his prime.
Prime time was in his prime.
At that point I want to say itwas 1989 that he was drafted and
so I was 12 at that time and Ijust remember having the name
(02:08):
Leon and Neon Dion.
I got a lot of that back andforth, but I haven't heard it
since then.
Thanks for bringing it back.
Bringing you back, baby.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Bringing you back to old school here on the podcast.
Well, leon, a reason I wantedto have you on, a lot of reasons
I want to have you on, butnumber one, folks, this guy that
I have on today, he is one ofthe best dudes just people that
you'll ever meet.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thank you Appreciate that, Gordon.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You know I've known you, leon now what seven, eight
years, something like that Sevenyears for sure, man, we've
gotten to know each other reallyclose.
We've had you up here toexperience some Wisco stuff
recently.
On some of the more recentepisodes, guys, I've been
bringing you folks who are notlocated here in Wisconsin but
they have so much value to bring, and so I always want to bring
you guys the most value that Ican on this podcast.
(02:52):
I want to give you guys thebest people I can bring on here,
and Leon is no exception here.
He is one of the best in a lotof areas but he has so much
information and so muchknowledge to bring to you guys.
So Leon and I met through agroup called the Collective
Genius, and this is not acommercial for Collective Genius
today.
However, I will definitely bepromoting it today because it's
(03:15):
made a huge, profound impact onour business.
You guys that listen everysingle week you know that pretty
much every week I'm talkingwith a guest about the power of
networking, and the networkingthat Collective Genius has
brought to us has been just offthe charts.
Again, I get to meet amazingpeople like Leon, but Leon's in
a unique position because notonly does he operate a property
(03:37):
management company remotely inWichita, kansas, which is a
similar, it's a Midwest right.
So that's where I feel like youcan relate a similar, it's a
Midwest right, so that's whereyou know.
I feel like you can relay a lotto the people here listening
Leon.
But Leon also has been involvedas a full-time employee and as
an owner in over 400 flips.
He lost count on how many flipshe'd done.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I did lose count.
That's a good thing, right whenyou lose count, that is a good
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Hopefully still in the business.
That is a good thing.
Hopefully still in the business.
Yeah, if you know I did two orthree, then you're like, oh man,
you might have made it out ofthat third one.
And he also is involved inmembership director at
Collective Genius and so he getsto interact with people of all
different experience levels fromall over the country.
I mean hundreds of operators ofrental, land, development, flip
(04:24):
, wholesale, you name it plusvendors.
I mean you're interacting withpeople of all different calibers
, skill levels and all thesethings and the amount of
knowledge that he gets to takein from those interactions is
just amazing.
So, leon, all that to be said,welcome to the podcast man.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Thank you.
That's a great introduction,probably the best introduction
I've ever had.
It either means I work too muchor I'm spread way too thin
because of all those things youjust announced.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, as I was rattling them off, I'm like
we've got to get into how theheck you do this, because that's
a lot of stuff, man, becauseyou're still active.
You're full-time with CollectiveGenius.
That takes up a lot of yourtime.
You're traveling multiple timesa year to the different events.
Every day you're in the officewhere you are now, you know,
connecting, doing podcasts.
You now run the CollectiveGenius podcast as well that we
(05:15):
did a little interview onrecently, and so I mean your
plate is pretty full.
Man.
How are you handling all ofthis stuff while still
maintaining your foot in thereal estate space for your own
business?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So when I got into real estate 10 years ago prior
to that, I was in corporate for11 years.
Very similar to you, corey, Irealized very early on that
entrepreneurs especially in realestate investing they did
something that at the corporatelevel we weren't great at.
(05:48):
I was a sales manager and youwould hire people to do that
work, but you typically didn'thave different positions that
handled all these differentthings.
Leverage is a word that Ilearned very early on in real
estate, and so when I started myown flipping slash BRRRR you
(06:14):
were mentioning BRRRR out of thegates, I built my entire rental
portfolio off of BRRRR.
But the best way I can answerthe question of how I'm able to
accomplish all of that is numberone.
I'm not doing it perfectly.
I'm trying to make sure thatI'm always balancing as much as
(06:35):
possible when you're growing.
Balance is a tough, tough word,but the best way I can answer
that is leverage.
I have a partner.
I have a partner.
I um, you know I'm.
I moved to tampa five years ago.
That's where the collectivegenius is headquartered, and has
been for 14 plus years now.
But I worked remotely from myhome market in wichita for two
(06:58):
years and I had to build it to apoint where I could make that
move if I wanted to.
So I have a partner and twofull-time employees in that
market that have, you know,continued to help grow that
business.
But you know, it's all leverageon the who, not necessarily how
.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
One of my favorite books right there that you just
mentioned there.
Mr Ben Hardy correct.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, dr Benjamin Hardy, when I think of who, not
how, and I think of BRRRRstrategies, I think of investors
that have been doing thosethings for many, many years,
before BRRRR was an actual coinphrase or acronym right.
And I also think about all theinvestors and people that I knew
(07:42):
that were landlords that havebeen utilizing who, not how, way
, way before that book waswritten and published.
So a lot of the things thatentrepreneurs have always
understood is that, yes, you'vegot to grind, you've got to
hustle, there is a season forthat, but in order to grow and
scale, you're going to have tounderstand that I can't do all
(08:04):
this by myself.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
If.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I want a 2X, 3x, 10x.
It's going to take more thanjust my own power.
It's going to take the power ofothers and helping them get
what they want.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So you can get what you want 100% and there's so
much to go into right there.
One thing I just want to make apoint of I actually was
thinking about this recentlywith my own business is like man
, sometimes I'm like gosh, am Ioverhead?
I've got all this marketing,I've got these employees, I got
to manage all this kind of stuff.
But then I think about like theleverage Like you talk about,
like we just spent a monthtraveling around.
We were in Florida, we were ona Disney cruise, we get to do
(08:35):
all this stuff and the businesskeeps working, even if I'm when
you're early.
We didn't have that luxury.
It was Carrie and I justworking when we could work in
between times and picking thoseslots and stuff.
But then it became okay, makethat first hire, who's going to
be the first hire and all thatsort of stuff for you and your,
your partner, how do you, how doyou guys have that organized?
(08:56):
Because I think partnershipsare interesting.
A lot of times on the podcastI've talked to a lot of couples.
Obviously, that's a prettynatural partnership.
But when you bring in anoutside person first of all,
what are some of theconversations that you guys had
or should have had up front onthat, and how do you guys make
it work over this long period oftime from a distance too?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So I'm going to start with a disclaimer.
Partnerships are not easy.
In fact, one of the mainreasons you know we have over
500 real estate investingmembers across the country in
the collective jeans and acrossthe world we have some members
from other countries as well.
The number one reason generallythat I see businesses fall now
(09:45):
they may get back up is businesspartnership divorces.
So I want to put thatdisclaimer out there that
choosing a partner, just likechoosing a partner in life, is
super important that you makesure that that relationship is
one that you are equally alignedon goals from the beginning,
(10:07):
Because a lot of timespartnerships early on is one
person is bringing the money,the other person is bringing the
hustle and if you're notequally aligned on goals from
the beginning, you will growapart.
There's no doubt about it.
It's not much different than apersonal marriage as well, so I
(10:29):
cheat coded this one.
Corey, I don't know if we'veever had this conversation
before.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I don't think so I'm learning that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So I've always been someone that prior in my
corporate days I was always onthe lookout, as a sales manager,
for talented individualsspecifically to sell advertising
, and a lot of the times Ienjoyed hiring former athletes.
I enjoyed hiring formerathletes because they were
(10:57):
driven and there was nothing Icould say to them to get the
best from them that they hadn'talready heard from a coach over
their career, to get the bestfrom them that they hadn't
already heard from a coach overtheir career.
And so I had this guy come andinterview with me in 2004,.
I want to say Okay, and he wasa former college baseball player
.
You know, reminded me a lot ofmyself, other than he's a lot
(11:20):
shorter than me and I hired himand you know, as I continued to
go up the corporate ladder, hecontinued.
He wasn't the best sales rep,but he was the best at listening
and applying Again, formercollege athlete listening,
coaching and applying it.
And he was just so loyal and hewas always in my top five as
(11:40):
one of my salespeople.
And when I got a promotion hewas like, hey, if you ever get
your own office, I would love togo with you.
Single, no kids.
We were both single, no kids atthe time and I happened to get
and you want to talk abouthitching your wagon here?
He hitched his wagon tosomebody that went from Wichita
running a division that was verysuccessful to getting a
promotion to run my own officein Hawaii.
(12:03):
Wow, I went out to Hawaii for,I think, eight months.
He got a transfer with thatcompany with me.
Eventually it became my kind ofright hand in Hawaii.
When I came back to go to workfor because my start in real
estate was not on my own I wentto work for someone else.
I did that for five years, butpart of that process he stayed
(12:26):
out in Hawaii when I came backand that was again.
That was one of those things.
Hey, I can't tell you that I'mgoing to be out here forever.
So if you do come out, you'llhave the choice whether you want
to stay or not.
He decided to stay for anothercouple of years and continue to
work for that company and theneventually he's like all right,
it's time for me to come home.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And so eventually ended up hiring him in
acquisitions.
And then, as we both continueto grow in this going, you know
what we could do this on our own, and we should, we owe it to
ourselves to do this at a higherlevel, individually or together
.
And so I cheat coded thisbecause of someone that I've
known, you know, for 20 plusyears and we, you know, it's
(13:10):
like it's like a brother, andhe's only a year younger than me
, if that, we both formerathletes, and just it's like a
brother.
So from that standpoint, it wasvery easy to know who my
partner should be when we madethat jump.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, that's a really good point there, the length of
relationship.
You guys have been through alot.
You've worked together.
You guys apparently likedworking together.
If he's going to move to Hawaiito work with you, absolutely,
and you were like, yeah, come,yeah, that's a pretty good sign
that you're going to movehalfway across the world and
still be able to get along anddo those sort of things that you
guys could probably make itwork together.
(13:49):
I think that's an importantpoint because a lot of people I
see, like you said a lot oftimes, they rush into a
partnership because they'rehungry, they want to get going.
They got a guy that's got somecash, that guy's like, sweet, I
got somebody who will do all thework, let's do a partnership.
And then they never have thosetough conversations up front of
like how's this going to end?
right, because it's going to endat some point more than likely
yeah, the chances are I'll die,so at some point you're going to
(14:13):
die.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely, and the likelihood that it's going to
end before you die that's veryhigh as well.
The thing I would say early onas a lesson to those that are
considering bringing on apartner because of money, or
considering to bring on apartner because you can't afford
someone, what I would say toyou is this is once you give up
that equity especially if youdon't have a plan in place once
(14:37):
you give up that equity, youcan't get that equity back.
So I would advise instead ofgiving up equity, just give up a
higher percentage of profit.
You don't have to do a certainamount of deal flow and be at a
(15:01):
certain level in your businessto qualify.
But a lot of the peoplebeforehand you know they're
starting to graduate to aprofessional business and
generally it's when they'rethey're getting away from those
50 50 JV splits.
Yes, right, but it's OK to dothose JV 50-50 splits when
you're starting out 100% Becauseyou need capital.
(15:23):
That person wants a return,you've got deals.
You need capital In order tocontinue to grow.
You need more capital andeventually you'll get good
enough to graduate into whereyou don't have to give up that
much percentage.
But give up that JV versusgiving up equity in your company
, especially if you see itcontinuing to grow.
(15:45):
You know, and you want it tocontinue to scale.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and I usually recommend to people, like you
said, make them a debt partner,not an equity partner.
So what that means for those whodon't know, I just spoke a
bunch of jargon to you.
Have them be like the bank,where they have a note and a
mortgage on that deal inparticular and you're going to
pay them a certain return onthat money.
You don't have to do it all upfront either.
You could backload it so youpay them when you refinance, if
(16:12):
you're doing a BRRRR, when yousell it, so you don't have to be
making payments if you don'thave a lot of liquid cash while
you're trying to improve thesethings, and then you just pay
them off when that thing sells.
Versus, like now, we're 50-50partners and now you're going to
get resentment most likely, asyou're doing all this hard work
and they're just kicking backScrooge McDuck in this thing,
collecting their gold coins andnot really having to do anything
(16:33):
.
You're going to start to feellike, man, I'm doing all the
work here, they're not doinganything, and you forget that
you needed them at the start andit just it breeds.
It breeds some negativity.
We've done a lot of JVs whereit's a one deal hey, we'll 50,
50 this for this flip and that'sit.
It's not.
We're going to form an LLC andwe're going to commit to each
other for X amount of deals andit gets messy.
(16:54):
Well, this one we found.
You didn't find it, so we'regoing to put it in our LLC.
And it's just pretty soonfriendships and families get
broken up real quick.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You just described.
You know the business divorcethat happens more often than any
other, which is I bring insomeone because of capital and
all they're doing is givingcapital.
It's a big part, obviously, ofthe equation, but over time, as
you're dealing with thecontractors and you are up at 5
(17:26):
am and you're not getting homeuntil 9 pm and this person's hey
, when is that going to close?
And all they're doing iscalling you about a closing over
time, that's where thefrustration comes in.
Just simply say you know what?
I need to find a better way todo this, and the cost of capital
should go down as you getbetter and it should.
(17:46):
If it's not, then I wouldencourage you to continue to
look at better options.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, Leon, you had worked when
you went to with theacquisitions guy and then you
guys left that company.
Can you talk a little bit about?
I know there were some, maybethings that the owner did there
and we don't want to disparageanybody or throw anybody under
the bus, but I think there'ssome lessons to be learned from
that divorce of when you werethe I think you were the
operations manager, coo orwhatever you want to call it
(18:14):
yeah, someone called itoperations COO, second in
command, basically theintegrator of the business.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yes, what I would say is this for those that maybe
they've already hired thatintegrator or are thinking about
that in the future, so they canbe that true visionary and that
happens over time, that's notsomething that happens overnight
, but you have someone handlingday-to-day operations, hiring,
managing all of the officepersonnel.
(18:45):
That's basically what I wasdoing.
I came from an environmentwhere I was leading 25 sales
reps selling advertising, so Ihad management and hiring
experience.
Reps selling advertising, andso I had management hiring
experience, and so it was just anatural progression, for, for a
business that was, you know,starting to really grow and
scale, just needed that next popand that operator to do that.
I would say the the biggestlesson I would share from when
(19:09):
you have you've gotten to thatpoint where you can hire C-suite
, executive level people Maybenot Fortune 500 C-suite, but
people that have worked theirway up a management ladder to
run executive.
They're your executive leaderof your team.
Just make sure that you'remeeting their goals as much as
(19:34):
they're helping you meet yours.
That's good and I'll just saythat again, all of your team
should do this.
If you're doing it at a highlevel.
The entire team should bealigned with this, but
especially the person that comesin and helps you continue to
grow double and triple thebusiness.
(19:55):
Make sure that it's not justyour goals that are being
achieved, it's also thatindividual that is working in
the trenches, treating thebusiness like theirs, that they
are also being taken care of ontheir goals.
It's super important Now andsome may say you know well, well
(20:16):
, I don't care about that, okay.
Well, just know that you runthe risk, especially if you have
someone high caliber.
Take care of them.
Yeah, because they will takecare of you long term.
And it's not just that oneindividual person.
To corey's point before, youshould do be doing that with all
of your employees, because ifyou treat them right, when we go
back to before, leverage has acost.
(20:39):
Right, leverage cannot becontinued without taking care.
You can't just leverage yourpeople.
You have to make sure that whatthey're giving you, you're
building that leverage to helpyou grow and scale.
Make sure you take care oftheir goals and their dreams as
well, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
First of all, you got to know what they are right,
yeah, yeah, and we talk aboutthat at Collective Genius.
Eric Brewer, who's a monster inthis space, did a great
presentation on, you know,sitting down with your employees
and we do that here.
We've done that for a long timeof sit down with everybody.
Try to figure.
Most of them are related toreal estate people that come to
work for us.
A lot of them want to buildtheir own portfolios, and so we
(21:17):
take a lot of pride in helpingthem get started and connecting
them and lending them money anddoing all the kinds of stuff to
help them grow their own realestate portfolios or flips or
whatever they're trying to do tosupplement what they're doing
here, so long as it doesn'tinterfere with their day-to-day.
You know there's got to be someboundaries.
There's got to be someboundaries here, of hours here.
But you being on the employeeside, how did you manage that?
How did you keep your and howdo you still because you still
(21:37):
have your own businesses outsideof the collective genius?
How do you keep those twothings separate and not let it
interfere with yourresponsibilities that you've
committed to the collectivegenius for?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I've been very blessed to have a partner that
really runs day-to-dayoperations.
In fact, as I mentioned before,there was no way that I was
moving away from my home marketunless I had someone that I
could trust to run day-to-dayoperations.
And so each year that I've beenhere for over five years now
(22:08):
I've continued to work less inthat business.
This on purpose.
On purpose, we have grown thiscommunity, the Collective Genius
, over.
When I first started, we onlyhad one community.
Now we have four differentcommunities under the umbrella,
ranging from people doing onedeal a month all the way up to
(22:29):
people having $10 million inbusinesses and above.
Well, this has taken a lot moreof my time, and so I have
purposely made sure that I haveless responsibility on that side
, and so even to a point whereI've now teamed up with another
organization to handle theacquisitions, because, frankly,
(22:51):
my goals of that business areall about the long-term wealth
building and not the acquisitionpiece.
I don't love it anymore.
I'll be honest, corey, that'snot something that I absolutely
love.
I love this.
This is my passion is gettingto know and have members like
yourself in a community that Ican help continue to grow.
(23:14):
That's passion, that'sretirement, and so I've just
continued.
When I need it, I'm involved,but thankfully it's not that
often, yeah no, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And with that growth and you starting to step away,
does that mean that?
Have you had to give upanything to the partner saying,
hey, you're doing more of thework, so now I'm going to offer
you X percentage more orsomething?
How have you guys had thatconversation?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That is typical, right?
We had that discussion before Ileft, because I knew the
responsibility was going to bemore.
And so, yeah, we negotiated apartnership at a higher
percentage for him, because thatbusiness again going back to
(24:00):
taking care of those that takecare of you we would not have
gotten to, I think, at ourheight.
We were at 75 doors.
We've since peeled back andsold a few.
So at the height know, at 75 Iwould have never gotten to 75 on
my own, and so we negotiatedthat and it was an easy
(24:21):
negotiation.
It was pretty much this is whatit is, um, and you, I just need
you to continue to grow that.
Since then, as I mentionedbefore, we've just continued to
look at how our goals evolved,and both he and I, our goals,
have continued to evolve tostacking wealth with our
(24:44):
portfolio, and that's the twothings that he and I both want
the most.
And so acquisitions is a partof that, but the passion is the
passion is, is, is the rentals,and eventually you know that may
, you know, we may roll thatinto something else, we may sell
those.
There's so many options off ofthat that it's for me, again,
(25:04):
it's become more of a retirementgoal than it is the, the, the
hustle and bustle of growing and, uh, you know, through
acquisitions.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
What do you guys love aboutrentals?
Because I love rentals, but I'mjust curious.
Like you guys are in adifferent market.
You have long-term wealth goalssimilar to myself, but what do
you see Like why you could?
You could do anything in thisspace, which is the sometimes
the blessing and the curse ofreal estate there's so many
different avenues you can take.
You guys have zeroed in onrentals, long-term wealth
building, stack assets.
(25:33):
What was it that made you guysdecide to zero in on that?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well, like you, being in a market where cap rates are
possible, right where you canactually make money and build
wealth at the same time.
What we lack in Wisconsin andKansas, what we lack in the
upside of appreciation, we getsome of it.
(25:58):
We don't get the big swingslike Florida's and the
California's.
We don't get those big swingseither way.
But we do get consistency andsome appreciation, but we're
still at a cash flow.
We still have the ability tocash flow.
And so the reason I love singlefamily and up to four.
I don't have any apartments.
(26:19):
I do have some four plexes.
What I love about that assetclass it's gotten tougher and
interest rates.
Obviously we've purchased andburned less over the last couple
of years than we had in thepast when interest rates were
low, we were holding everything.
Yeah, and it's just taking whatthe defense gives you right at
the time, the defense gave uslow rates, we we kept as many as
(26:41):
we possibly could.
Right now, rates are a littlebit higher and a little harder
to cash flow and, um, ouracquisitions costs have gone up.
Let's, let's, let's move thosevia flip um or host wholesale
hotel.
What have you?
Yeah, um.
But what I love it more thananything being in a market like
Wichita is I know that I have somuch flexibility with that
(27:04):
portfolio.
I could sell it.
I could sell it on terms.
I could hold it forever,continue to add, you know, 10,
15 doors a year.
There's institutions in time.
To me, I think the biggest playfor the future is if you are
someone that is sitting on acouple hundred doors and maybe
(27:28):
you just get tired of them.
With Wall Street jumping intothis asset class, I think the
more doors that you can hold onto, the better, as Wall Street
is going to continue to come andgrab those and offer you.
As the markets continue toswing, they're going to offer
(27:48):
you much more than you wouldhave sold it to a mom and pop,
and I believe that every housethat we sell to an institution
will never mom and pop.
Buyers will never get thosehouses back, right.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
No.
Blackrock has said they want toown 75% of residential real
estate.
I believe.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And I could see it happening because you know, if
you look at 2020, 2021, theneighborhoods in places like
here in Tampa, in Atlanta,charlotte, there's neighborhoods
where you know there are maybejust a very small percentage of
actual homeowners inneighborhoods and the rest are
(28:28):
institutionally owned.
I think you're going tocontinue to see that trend,
especially in cities and stateswhere the population continues
to grow, and I think it's only amatter of time before you see a
higher percentage ofinstitutions, and so what I
enjoy about it is the abilityfor it to continue to appreciate
(28:52):
cash flow, and here's thebiggest kicker.
This is where you really havethe cherry on top.
These are all every single doorthat we own are all birth
strategies.
I have zero of my own money inthose properties.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's my favorite.
If you do the math on that,leon, what's your rate of return
when you have no money in andit kicks out money?
Isn't that called infinite?
Oh my gosh yes.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean look, it's pretty simple, right, Corey?
Let me give you $0 and you giveme money back.
I'll take that.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And I love like our team.
I just had a couple coachingcalls with some of our team
yesterday who are buying rentalsand they just got their first
ones.
Like it's so exciting becausethey're like they've got their
first ones.
And one guy is fresh out ofcollege, you know a year out of
college, and he's just he's justgetting rolling and he got his
first one and he's super excited.
His goals when he started werelike I want a house hack, great
first call.
I love that.
I wish I would have house househacked out of college.
(29:52):
Amazing, and that was his goal.
I just want to get a house hackand then we'll see where the
wind goes.
Well, they did the first oneand he's like wait a minute, I
don't need to house hack anymore.
Like I could, I could try to dothis bird thing.
And then we were running throughthe math on a couple of deals
we have out that are we'retaking offers on today, and I
was like dude, this is aninfinite return deal, Like
you'll have no money into itafterwards.
(30:13):
He's got a private lender so hecan use the private lender for
the down payment for the initialrehab phase and then refinance
out of it.
He'll have all of his moneyback.
And I'm like how many of thosedo you want to stack?
It's just, how many of thosecan you find?
And then, how many do you wantto put in your portfolio?
The only thing that would holdit back is fear and money.
Those are the only two thingsfear and access to capital for
(30:35):
those phases.
Or, if it goes wrong, you gotto have a private lender who's
willing to stick some cash inthere with you.
For the long term maybe, butoutside of that there's nothing
that should hold him back frombuilding it as big as he wants
to build it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
You hit the nail on the head there.
I wanted to make sure that youknow it sounds very easy.
Right, you've got to build somerelationships for private money
up up front to be able to, andbanking relationships so you can
actually refinance that out.
So there's there's some workthere.
But when you are able to getthat system set up, you know
(31:07):
it's just a rinse and repeat.
The one thing I will say as acaveat though the misnomer of
I'm going to own a bunch of realestate and go, you know, in in
10 years and retire, you knowthat's the misnomer is that you
know passive income is neverpassive.
First of all, it is nicebecause you're building equity
(31:31):
and hopefully in markets likeours, you're cash flowing as
well.
But the reality is is,depending upon your financial
situation, you're not going toretire from an active income
standpoint anytime soon,especially when you're birth
strategy, because you are takingsome of that equity when you do
refinance that property andthat could be considered active
(31:57):
income.
But the reality is you're goingto need living expenses and
that's a misnomer is that peoplethink, man, I've got a hundred
doors, I should be able toretire.
You would think in theory, butno one tells you the horror
stories of hey, my cap rate is X, I'm going to make $5,000 this
(32:17):
year on this property.
Let's just use that as a roundnumber.
Well, that's just one HVAC,yeah, right.
Yeah, that's just one bigrepair that now you're at a
break even and that's the horrorstories that no one wants to
tell you, and it's somethingthat you have to make sure you
consider, all things 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
What we set for him for a goal for this, the rest of
this year, is add one moreduplex and do a flip.
So now you've got the flip cashbecause burrs are you're highly
leveraged.
You're not going to cash flowvery much on these bursts, right
Like in my buy box when Irealized the burst strategy and
thankfully we have the activeincome from this business.
The rentals, much like you, arevery passive I still have to be
(32:57):
involved in managing themanager and that kind of thing
but they're very passivecompared to wholesaling and
flipping.
But they require a lot ofcapital, especially during the
acquisitions phase.
You know you got to have accessto the cash somewhere.
So whether that's a friend orfamily member or you're flipping
and you're, you're using thoseflip profits to put in the other
thing.
I would just say this for theaudience listening out there
(33:18):
don't forget about taxes.
So if you're flippingproperties and you're just like,
oh, I'll just take, I made 25grand, I'm going to put it all
into this rental property, well,you're going to have a big old
surprise come April 15th nextyear when all of a sudden the
government's saying, hey, weneed our 34% or 50% of that 25
grand you made and you've got itall tied up now in a property
(33:38):
and you can't liquidate it.
So just a little caveat thereMake sure you're putting aside
cash from those flips orwholesale deals and setting that
aside for tax purposes.
Now, the rentals will helpoffset some of that.
Sure, unless you're a realestate professional by the IRS
standards, we won't get intowhat that all means today, but
you want to make sure you'resetting aside some cash for the
taxes and that stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
All great advice.
Almost everyone that I've hadon the Collective Genius podcast
.
Almost every single investorthat's been in this business 10,
15, 20 years including one Idid yesterday most of them
started their real estate careerwith reading Rich Dad, poor Dad
, yeah, and there's a lot ofgood and a lot of motivation.
(34:22):
A lot of investors that I know,obviously that started their
career there and then theyrealize I think of Jimmy
Vreeland out of St Louisimmediately Like he was working
in medical sales, medical devicesales, making a really, really
good living and got all the wayafter his post-military career,
got all the way to 100 doors andhe was like man, I am rich, I
(34:44):
don't have to.
You know I'm a full-time realestate investor now and he
realized very quickly after hedid not have that medical sales
income coming in anymore that hewas very poor, very fast, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
And that's what you know.
Yes, it can be a great.
It is a great way to buildwealth.
Yes, but the part of that itdoesn't give you is the active
income that you have to makesure.
And so I tell everybody that'sgetting into this business,
especially if you're making agreat W-2 salary.
Number one you're very bankablewhen you have a great job and
(35:21):
just milk that for as long asyou can, because if you really
truly want to burr, the best wayto burr is when you have active
income coming in that's notrelated to your real estate
Bankers.
Go, yeah, of course, come on in, you're very safe.
You're very safe because I cansee that you're making X amount
every month and I know thatyou're going to pay us back
(35:43):
because you're not relying onthose rentals to pay me back.
You're relying on your activeincome.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That is such good advice.
I see that mistake happen a lotof times.
People get some early success,they start getting some momentum
, they're doing a few flips,they picked up a couple of
rentals.
They're like peace, I'm out,I'm doing this full time, baby.
And now?
they go to their bank whothey've been going to the well.
But guys like, ah, yeah, youdon't have any money, so we
can't lend you anymore.
And now they're stuck.
And now they either got to gofind another job or they got to
(36:09):
scrap and go find those privatelenders pretty quickly and start
building that side of theirbusiness.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Establish a track record.
If you're going to make thatjump, you need to have at least
a couple of years of activeincome.
Your profit and loss statementon your active side should be
profitable.
If it is profitable now you canmake that jump and banks go
well.
All right, he's got two yearsof returns here.
He or she has two years ofreturns here where I can
(36:35):
actually see that they'rebankable.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
When I was going to leave corporate America, I had
the conversation with my lenderswho we'd already worked with
and I said, hey, if I quit, areyou guys still going to be able
to lend to me?
And I went to all my banks thatI had already worked with and I
got their commitment that, yeah, you're good, you've shown
success on the wholesale andflip stuff.
You've got the rental stuff,which is fine, but we like
(36:58):
seeing that you've got activestuff going on.
You've got a few flips in thebalance sheet and the hopper
ready to go.
We're good with you.
I'm like, okay, cool, but Iwant to have that conversation
before I pull the plug that I'mout there and that's great
advice because a lot of peopledon't think about that.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They just leave and haven't had that conversation
with financial institutions thatlove them today.
But as soon as that activeincome goes away, there's some
different questions that you get.
Can you send me your rent roll?
I need to see your rent.
You start getting differenttexts and emails from your
bankers when you are doing itfull time.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah for sure, for sure, good stuff here.
Let's pivot to the collectivegenius.
Again, I don't want this to benecessarily a commercial for
collective genius, but I'm a bigbeliever in your net worth is
your net worth.
I all that, which way it goes,yeah, either way, get around
some smart people that are doingmore than that's right.
Learn a lot, right, talk alittle bit about the collective
genius that what you guys havebecause you have different
(37:57):
levels.
Now you guys you know whethersomebody wants to be a part of
this or not.
Let's just talk about you knowwhat, what you guys do over
there briefly before we start towrap up.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
So, CG aside, I preach community and coaching
and mentorship.
Right, take CG out of it for asecond.
If you are in any type ofbusiness apprenticeship,
community relationship,mentorship these are all things
important as entrepreneurs.
What we do, not a lot of peopledo, and so you need to be
(38:30):
around other people that aredoing it and, hopefully, that
are doing it better or ahead ofyou.
That's what the collectivegenius is.
When Jason Medley started thisorganization 14 years ago, a lot
of real estate investorsbecause he was a lender a lot of
real estate investors their wayof acquiring deals at the
courthouse steps started to dryup and they needed to talk to
(38:52):
other real estate investors ofwhat are you using in California
that's working for you, and I'min Texas and this is working
for me and I'm in New York.
And so it was just that I meanthe word mastermind and the
think and grow rich is the firsttime that it was really
mentioned in a business book 100years ago.
And so it's just thatphilosophy getting around other
(39:15):
like-minded individuals thathopefully are a little bit ahead
of you, that you can bringvalue to them and vice versa.
And when I joined, I was stillthat COO for that business that
we talked about earlier, we hadjust barely qualified.
Now we have four differenttiers that qualifications start
at.
You've got to be a full-timereal estate investor doing at
(39:35):
least a deal a month, all theway up to people that are net
worths of $50 million maybe more.
So there are different tiers,but it's four full-time real
estate investors coming to learnhow to continue to grow and
scale, and that's the othercaveat they have to want to
continue to grow and scale theirbusiness grow as people, grow
as business owners and all thelike.
(39:57):
But when we joined man, Italked to one individual that
had no business, like he didn'thave to help me at all.
Yeah, had lunch with him andjust that one conversation had
plenty of conversations, butthat one conversation led to us
going from 50 flips a year tothe next year doing 70.
(40:20):
So we had increased over 20deals in one year from the
advice that I took and actuallyhad more than one.
Over 20 deals in one year fromthe advice that I took and
actually had more than one.
But I remember one specificconversation that I had that
just took us over that next top,and so it was also the mind
thing right, the old banister,roger's banister, the old
(40:40):
four-minute mile right.
We clearly knew that now that 50we thought was our tops, we now
knew that we were havingself-limiting beliefs that we
couldn't do more than that, andit's that was the biggest thing
I take away.
It was just I knew that I coulddo more, because I was seeing
(41:01):
others do more, for sure, and sothat's ultimately why, cory I
think I've told you this Iwanted to continue to stay in
the business, yeah, but thepassion that I saw in that room
of connecting people with otherlike-minded people, I was like
Jason, I don't know how I'mgoing to do this, but I want to
be a part of it.
Yeah, and here we are.
I went full-time withCollective Genius seven years
(41:24):
ago.
Yeah, with Collective Geniusseven years ago, I have had
literally thousands of consultswith investors across the
country and world that haveended up joining this great
group and some that didn't.
And, like, I talked to someonethree years ago that just joined
yesterday.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Wow Right, oh baby, there's a little lesson for you
right there too.
Well, but it's also timingright.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, people got to be ready.
Yeah, baby, there's a littlelesson for you right there too.
Well, but it's also timingright.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, people got to be ready.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And it's never a sales pressure thing, it's
always just you.
Let me know when you're readyto continue to grow and scale,
because when you are, when youare, we'll be here and I know
that if you do this right, youparticipate at the highest level
.
Come to the meetings, show upfor the training calls, like
today.
Yesterday we had one of thesefor our premier level.
(42:12):
Today we're going to have oneof these for our select level.
These are different tierswithin the group.
We're going to have it allhands on deck.
We had 75 people on a callyesterday going what's going on
in Houston, phoenix, portland,new Hampshire All of these
different areas and regions aregoing.
Hey, what are you seeing in themarket right now?
Is days on market going up?
(42:34):
Are you having issues sellingproperties?
These are conversations that wehave not only at the meetings,
but we also have on our trainingcalls and we'll have one of
those today.
Not only at the meetings, butwe also have on our training
calls and we'll have one ofthose today, and so I'll always
know across the country whatwe're seeing.
And, oddly enough, with thatcall yesterday, the biggest
(42:57):
takeaway I had, corey, was it'smuch to do about nothing right
now.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Meaning that we should all prepare that days on
market probably will continue togo up.
You should expect ARV topotentially come down.
The one caveat to that is thisIf interest rates come down,
then you might not see a slowyou know this continue to slowly
get a little worse on days onmarket and ARVs going down.
(43:23):
If interest rates come down,then all bets are off.
But I would be preparing basedupon that conversation, that
it's not today, but I wouldprepare just in case the market
continues the way it is andhonestly, you know this, this is
just normalization.
The way the market was in 2017and 18 is very similar.
(43:47):
Inventory is still super lowcompared to 2017 and 18.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, well, we see that when we have the Habiba
guys come in and they show usthe charts of inventory levels
compared to when the crashhappened, right, correct, we're
still a decade behind where weshould be as far as new
inventory goes, or new builds go.
According to their data, thatwould show that we're gonna.
We're gonna be in this spot fora while, especially as there's,
you know, the hot word tariff.
Right, I'm gonna throw tariffsout there.
(44:13):
It means a great tariffs outhere.
It's amazing, uh they, uhworking out a little bit, uh,
they, but you know, you're gonnahave some, some, possibly some
supply chain stuff, some things.
Costs are gonna go up, whichcould potentially hold people
back from building new homeseven more, which is going to
cause again we're just not goingto get past this little bubble
(44:33):
for a while of low inventory.
As far as the new inventorygoes, from the data that I've
been looking at anyway and I'mno oracle over here, no, Our job
is to never predict the future.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
It's just to prepare you and the more information
that you have, not only in yourhome region, because we know in
the Midwest things can be slowto get to the Midwest they
happen in bigger markets or onthe coast.
First, you know, I track whathappens in Phoenix, I track what
happens in San Diego and Miamiand some of these bigger markets
(45:07):
, because we know that stufftrickles.
But at the same time, ourappreciation again Idaho between
(45:29):
2020 and 2022, before interestrates went back up.
I don't see that in the Midwest, you don't see that, and so
therefore, my ARV I might haveto adjust 5% to 10% in a slower
market right.
Yeah, in a slower market rightthey are.
You know, after repair valuefor them or new construction
(45:51):
values, they may have builtsomething, thinking it was going
to be worth half a million inJanuary of 22.
Interest rates changed March of22.
Now that thing is worth 300.
Well, that number doesn'tpencil anymore, right, and so I
track that.
But I also take it with a grainof salt and understand that my
(46:12):
percentages are going to bedifferent than those that are in
those markets that had massive,massive upswings, like the
Austins, the Phoenixes andspecifically Boise, Idaho.
All the Californians weremoving there during COVID, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
And I think one thing go back to what you talked
about before with the ARVsadjusting and what's happening
currently.
This is the beautiful partabout rental real estate it's
buy and hold it's long term.
So right now you're potentiallygoing to get a deal because
interest rates are still steady.
They're still higher than whatwe expect right, expect right.
(46:51):
And when the interest ratesdrop, that value of all of your
whole portfolio that you'rebuying today in this higher
interest rate it's going to goup because there's going to be
more demand in the market.
So the best time to plant thetree was 20 years ago, leon.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Our buddy, sam Prim, says every 15 years, your real
estate portfolio will double invalue.
And Sam, if you don't know him,he's a good follower out of St
Louis, so not too far still aMidwest guy.
You know he's so right, like I.
You know the beauty of havingthat rental portfolio is even
(47:20):
Corey.
If we got in trouble, like youknow, the business was shutting
down Well, I have some assets tobe able to move if need be.
So you start with active income, whether that's a W-2 or
wholesaling, and hopefully thegoal is to continue to grow
(47:41):
assets because of taxprotections, but also business
protection as well.
We have some people thatsometimes say you know, hey, I'm
struggling right now.
Well, how many doors do youhave?
Well, I have 125.
Okay, so you're not struggling.
Well, yeah, yeah, I don't have,I don't have any cash flow.
Well, yeah, you do.
You have to sell some of the125 doors.
(48:03):
That's a vanity play.
You continue to get your doorshigher.
The reality is you're going tohave to sell a few of those to
continue to keep the businessgrowing.
That's right.
You've got to feed the beast.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, and
we'll wrap after this because Iknow you've got to get rolling
too.
But when I'm talking to some ofthe investors in our market, we
sit there, we look at like,right now the market's hot, it's
too hot, it's been hot forever.
But that's sometimes what holdspeople back is they're like
well, I'm waiting for this ARVpullback that you were talking
about a little bit right.
And then we get into the actualgoals and it's like well, in
(48:37):
five years I want to be able tonot have to work, right, I want
flexibility, so I need cash flowfor my rentals to be able to do
that.
And then when we really look atthe equity play, we're like
well, if you're burying thisthing, you've got 20% equity or
something like that on aproperty.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
That's right, so you're already there's your
profit right there.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Now you start the clock the minute you buy that
property right.
And so now the tenant startspaying your debt down and the
market, generally speaking overthe last 76 years, typically
appreciates, even if it's 4% or5% a year.
And now you start to createthis gap between what it's worth
and what you owe and it justgets bigger and bigger and
bigger and in five years youlook at some of these properties
you've got six figures ofspread on there.
(49:14):
So you buy two a year, you selltwo every five years, you just
keep doing that and now you'vegot your income to support your
lifestyle from the sale of thoseproperties and that's your
quote, unquote cashflow, even ifthey don't make a significant
amount annually that you'reputting in, or monthly, into
your bank account.
You're creating that equity andthat wealth and that
flexibility like you describedearlier.
(49:34):
It's one of the reasons why youlove the rental game.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Well, and here's one other thing I love that I missed
before Our markets are marketswhere we can make mistakes, and
time will cure those mistakesright.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yes yes.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
So when you know, I probably I think I maybe
mentioned this to you before Iprobably got 20, 25 doors in my
portfolio that were flipped,mistakes right, okay, but I've
held them for eight years nowand they're no longer a mistake
right.
And so being in markets likeWisconsin and being in markets
like Kansas, we can do that, wehave the ability and that's
(50:14):
again I'm playing where I'msupposed to be playing, which is
I'm laser focused on affordablehomes, that if I cannot find a
buyer on the flip side that Iknow I can, that property in
cash flow it might not be much,but I know it then becomes and
transforms into an equity play.
(50:34):
I will say this as well as alast kind of point to home
ownership, especially as alandlord.
There's over 500 members in theCollective Genius again across
the country and a few across theworld.
I only know of a couple thathave their entire portfolios
(50:57):
free and clear that don't haveto work Now.
Both of them have a little bitmore gray than I do on their
heads, which means they've beenin this business for a long
period of time, but very few owntheir properties free and clear
and have the flexibility ifthey want Now that doesn't mean
(51:19):
that you can't accomplish that,but the highest level people
that I know that are alwaysgrowing their business.
Very few of them own outright.
That doesn't mean they don'thave a bunch of equity, that
they have flexibility if they dowant to make those changes in
the future.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, and I like to think of it as chess pieces as
you add more assets and you getequity.
Now you can sell it or you canrefinance it.
You pull that out as a loan,proceed tax-free until you sell.
Then you've got to pay it.
But if you don't ever sell andyou just keep refinancing these
things, it's the gift that keepsgiving tax-free, creates your
own annuity tax-free.
It's a beautiful thing.
We could probably sit here andjust love on rentals for another
(51:59):
hour love on rentals foranother hour, but we got to wrap
.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
We got to wrap.
We got to get you out of here,buddy.
Well, before we get me out ofhere, I do want to say this
about you and to your listenersin Wisconsin Coming to Green Bay
to be a part of Kansas CityChiefs I'm originally from
Kansas City.
You invited us up, you weregracious enough to invite us up
not only to your home but to thegame and take part in
tailgating and all those things.
(52:23):
And I say that specificallybecause you know we met through
the collective genius and I cansay that for those in the Green
Bay area anything that Coreydoes from a podcast or training,
just do it.
Whatever Corey says, just do it.
(52:44):
Partake in any type of meetupsthat he's doing.
He's just such a giver.
I don't know many people in CGthat have ever treated their
employees better from thestandpoint of making sure
consistently making sure thatthey accomplish their goals of
what they want Maybe to a fault,even at times right, but you
and your family have such a bigheart and I can say this you
(53:07):
don't just do it for your family, you do it for your team's
family, but you also do it withlove for your community and it's
true, a lot of people do thisjust to be wealthy.
You do it because you want morefor your community beyond just
your business, which is really,really cool to see, and I wanted
to make sure I said that sopeople in Wisconsin can hear
(53:29):
that.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Oh, I appreciate that , man.
I'll send you a check afterthis for that little.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Okay, all right.
All right, send me one of thoseresiduals.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I'll get you a little residual check.
I'll give you one of my units,I'll send you there the cash
flow To the point of the.
I appreciate that, landon, thatwas very thoughtful, nice.
The meetups, though, we do.
If you're not ready to get intosomething like a Collective
Genius or you want somethingmore local, regular, we do run
the REI Success Club in GreenBay, so if you're not part of
that, you can go on Facebook,look up REI Success.
(53:57):
It'll bring you to the group.
You can get into the Facebookgroup, which is a great
community there.
If you're not ready to come to aphysical meetup, there's a
great networking in there, witha lot of folks investing in
Wisconsin, northeast Wisconsinmostly.
In particular, there's othernetworking opportunities for you
guys.
We have a great real estatecommunity in Wisconsin, so we're
very blessed to be a part ofthat.
There's another group calledCaffeine and Cashflow.
I had Zach Morgan on here a fewepisodes ago who runs that
(54:21):
thing, and we will usually havesomebody there to participate,
and he has locations all overthe eastern side of the state.
Here there's Wisco Ria, whichis a real estate association
meetup.
There's Apple.
There's tons of them.
So, get involved, guys.
There's no excuse to getinvolved in the networking piece
, and you guys have heard mepreach this a million times.
It's super impactful.
(54:42):
Leon, if somebody wanted toinquire about the Collective
Genius, what's the best way forthem to go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (54:49):
So two ways.
Number one is our website isthecollectivegeniuscom.
You get all the informationabout all the tiers and what it
is that we do.
Or are you just interested inlearning more about what you
know, the type of members,including Corey, who just we
just shot his episode hererecently.
We just started the podcastthis year.
I think we're 10 episodes in,so you can find that wherever
(55:13):
you get your podcast.
That's a good listen for sure,and we just talk about the
journey of the highest and bestreal estate investors in the
country, so it's a great listen.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, and Leon's a great interviewer as well, guys.
So he comes from a sportsbroadcasting background, so you
can imagine the interview stylehe has.
It's very comforting for theguests.
I can say that from being onthe other side of the microphone
.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
I'm a reporter by nature, that's right.
That's right, Leon.
Before we wrap, we always askeverybody favorite Wisconsin
tradition or place to visit.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Now you might have limited experience here based on
your….
No, I actually have a littlebit of experience.
That sports broadcasting careertook me to Milwaukee several
times.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
And went to several Bucs games because the soccer
team that I worked for playedthe Milwaukee Wave, which, for
those that are listening to this, maybe in Milwaukee indoor
soccer in Milwaukee they werelike the San Antonio Spurs of
that league.
They won all kinds ofchampionships and so we played
them quite often when I wasfresh out of college doing radio
(56:16):
play-by-play for an indoorsoccer team and they had is it
Summerfest?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
What is it in Milwaukee?
Yeah, summerfest.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Wow, that's hands down, brought some beer back
when I could still eat pork.
That was one of my favoriteexperiences and I believe it or
not, I'm not.
I never lived in Wisconsin, butI do have family in Milwaukee,
so I'm officially.
You know, I've been thereplenty of times, you've got some
ties.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Hey, by the way, that game that we went to, who won
that game of the Packers versusChiefs?
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Oh, you know, the Packers did win that, but I
think that year someone else wonthe Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
So we basically won the Super Bowl because we beat
the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
How about that?
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I think we all won that day.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, Leon, I appreciate youbeing on, brother.
I know this is going to be oneof the most downloaded and
shared episodes.
I want to encourage you guys toshare the episode.
Leon talked about that oneconversation he had that caused
him to add 20 more flips thispodcast, albeit not a
conversation that those of youlistening are involved in.
You are listening to this andthis could be the conversation
somebody else needs to hear forthem to be able to hockey stick
(57:28):
their business or get themstarted and create generational
wealth for them, their family,their community and also those
sorts of things.
So please share it, notnecessarily for us, but for
those folks out there in yournetwork that need to hear these
types of things.
Leon, appreciate you being on,brother.
We'll get that link in the shownotes, so if anybody wants to
inquire about getting involvedin the Collective Genius, they
can go there.
Make sure they put down thatthey heard it on the podcast so
(57:48):
they know where you guys camefrom.
And any last words for theaudience here.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Just get involved.
Again, I want to reiterate thisthere are not many people in
this business that are moregenuine than the Raymonds.
You guys do a great job and,whatever meetups or communities,
get involved, because they'rejust great human beings.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Appreciate you, buddy .
All right guys, Thanks fortuning in.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Hey everybody, we are back with another episode of
the Wisconsin Investor and, asusual, I have an amazing guest
for you guys today.
I'll introduce him here in asecond.
As usual, I'm going to also doa little commercial for our
sponsor, Wisconsin DiscountProperties.
Today I'm going to talk about adeal that we had out to our
(00:21):
buyers this recently.
That, I think, is a great deal,and here's why we put it out
for $265,000 was the ARV.
This was an upper-lower duplexhere in Green Bay on Winford
Avenue.
We just heard back from thebuyer that had an ARV appraisal
done on this and the ARVappraisal came back at $270,000.
(00:42):
So we were a little bit under.
We're trying to be conservativewith these ARVs folks, but this
buyer is going to be able toburr this thing.
They might have five grandstuck in it, so it's not a
complete burr, but theircash-on-cash return if they have
5,000 stuck into it is going tobe incredible.
Three-bedroom up orthree-bedroom lower, it's going
to be a beautiful thing.
And so we have deals like thatevery single week.
(01:12):
Guys, If you are looking foroff-market deals that you can
burr out of or get close toburring out of, and you're
looking to build that rentalportfolio.
Get on our buyers list,wisconsindiscountpropertiescom.
Put your information in.
You're going to add it to thebuyers list and you'll hear from
somebody from our team eithermyself, Reese or Connor to talk
about your goals and get youconnected to the folks that you
need to be connected to toaccelerate that growth in your
portfolio.
With that, let me introduce myman, Neon Leon Barnes.
What's up, Mr Barnes?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I haven't heard Neon Leon since probably junior high,
my friend, so it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, I like to throw a little curveball.
Nicknames at people right awayto see how they react right out
of the gates on these.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sometimes nicknames on people right away to see how
they react right out of thegates on these sometimes.
So yeah, so you know, when Iwas in middle school we had
junior high.
Back then um, that's how longago it was.
Uh, deon sanders was, you know,in his prime.
Prime time was in his prime.
At that point I want to say itwas 1989 that he was drafted and
so I was 12 at that time and Ijust remember having the name
(02:08):
Leon and Neon Dion.
I got a lot of that back andforth, but I haven't heard it
since then.
Thanks for bringing it back.
Bringing you back, baby.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Bringing you back to old school here on the podcast.
Well, leon, a reason I wantedto have you on, a lot of reasons
I want to have you on, butnumber one, folks, this guy that
I have on today, he is one ofthe best dudes just people that
you'll ever meet.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thank you Appreciate that, Gordon.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
You know I've known you, leon now what seven, eight
years, something like that Sevenyears for sure, man, we've
gotten to know each other reallyclose.
We've had you up here toexperience some Wisco stuff
recently.
On some of the more recentepisodes, guys, I've been
bringing you folks who are notlocated here in Wisconsin but
they have so much value to bring, and so I always want to bring
you guys the most value that Ican on this podcast.
(02:52):
I want to give you guys thebest people I can bring on here,
and Leon is no exception here.
He is one of the best in a lotof areas but he has so much
information and so muchknowledge to bring to you guys.
So Leon and I met through agroup called the Collective
Genius, and this is not acommercial for Collective Genius
today.
However, I will definitely bepromoting it today because it's
(03:15):
made a huge, profound impact onour business.
You guys that listen everysingle week you know that pretty
much every week I'm talkingwith a guest about the power of
networking, and the networkingthat Collective Genius has
brought to us has been just offthe charts.
Again, I get to meet amazingpeople like Leon, but Leon's in
a unique position because notonly does he operate a property
(03:37):
management company remotely inWichita, kansas, which is a
similar, it's a Midwest right.
So that's where I feel like youcan relate a similar, it's a
Midwest right, so that's whereyou know.
I feel like you can relay a lotto the people here listening
Leon.
But Leon also has been involvedas a full-time employee and as
an owner in over 400 flips.
He lost count on how many flipshe'd done.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I did lose count.
That's a good thing, right whenyou lose count, that is a good
thing.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Hopefully still in the business.
That is a good thing.
Hopefully still in the business.
Yeah, if you know I did two orthree, then you're like, oh man,
you might have made it out ofthat third one.
And he also is involved inmembership director at
Collective Genius and so he getsto interact with people of all
different experience levels fromall over the country.
I mean hundreds of operators ofrental, land, development, flip
(04:24):
, wholesale, you name it plusvendors.
I mean you're interacting withpeople of all different calibers
, skill levels and all thesethings and the amount of
knowledge that he gets to takein from those interactions is
just amazing.
So, leon, all that to be said,welcome to the podcast man.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Thank you.
That's a great introduction,probably the best introduction
I've ever had.
It either means I work too muchor I'm spread way too thin
because of all those things youjust announced.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, as I was rattling them off, I'm like
we've got to get into how theheck you do this, because that's
a lot of stuff, man, becauseyou're still active.
You're full-time with CollectiveGenius.
That takes up a lot of yourtime.
You're traveling multiple timesa year to the different events.
Every day you're in the officewhere you are now, you know,
connecting, doing podcasts.
You now run the CollectiveGenius podcast as well that we
(05:15):
did a little interview onrecently, and so I mean your
plate is pretty full.
Man.
How are you handling all ofthis stuff while still
maintaining your foot in thereal estate space for your own
business?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So when I got into real estate 10 years ago prior
to that, I was in corporate for11 years.
Very similar to you, corey, Irealized very early on that
entrepreneurs especially in realestate investing they did
something that at the corporatelevel we weren't great at.
(05:48):
I was a sales manager and youwould hire people to do that
work, but you typically didn'thave different positions that
handled all these differentthings.
Leverage is a word that Ilearned very early on in real
estate, and so when I started myown flipping slash BRRRR you
(06:14):
were mentioning BRRRR out of thegates, I built my entire rental
portfolio off of BRRRR.
But the best way I can answerthe question of how I'm able to
accomplish all of that is numberone.
I'm not doing it perfectly.
I'm trying to make sure thatI'm always balancing as much as
(06:35):
possible when you're growing.
Balance is a tough, tough word,but the best way I can answer
that is leverage.
I have a partner.
I have a partner.
I um, you know I'm.
I moved to tampa five years ago.
That's where the collectivegenius is headquartered, and has
been for 14 plus years now.
But I worked remotely from myhome market in wichita for two
(06:58):
years and I had to build it to apoint where I could make that
move if I wanted to.
So I have a partner and twofull-time employees in that
market that have, you know,continued to help grow that
business.
But you know, it's all leverageon the who, not necessarily how
.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
One of my favorite books right there that you just
mentioned there.
Mr Ben Hardy correct.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, dr Benjamin Hardy, when I think of who, not
how, and I think of BRRRRstrategies, I think of investors
that have been doing thosethings for many, many years,
before BRRRR was an actual coinphrase or acronym right.
And I also think about all theinvestors and people that I knew
(07:42):
that were landlords that havebeen utilizing who, not how, way
, way before that book waswritten and published.
So a lot of the things thatentrepreneurs have always
understood is that, yes, you'vegot to grind, you've got to
hustle, there is a season forthat, but in order to grow and
scale, you're going to have tounderstand that I can't do all
(08:04):
this by myself.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
If.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I want a 2X, 3x, 10x.
It's going to take more thanjust my own power.
It's going to take the power ofothers and helping them get
what they want.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So you can get what you want 100% and there's so
much to go into right there.
One thing I just want to make apoint of I actually was
thinking about this recentlywith my own business is like man
, sometimes I'm like gosh, am Ioverhead?
I've got all this marketing,I've got these employees, I got
to manage all this kind of stuff.
But then I think about like theleverage Like you talk about,
like we just spent a monthtraveling around.
We were in Florida, we were ona Disney cruise, we get to do
(08:35):
all this stuff and the businesskeeps working, even if I'm when
you're early.
We didn't have that luxury.
It was Carrie and I justworking when we could work in
between times and picking thoseslots and stuff.
But then it became okay, makethat first hire, who's going to
be the first hire and all thatsort of stuff for you and your,
your partner, how do you, how doyou guys have that organized?
(08:56):
Because I think partnershipsare interesting.
A lot of times on the podcastI've talked to a lot of couples.
Obviously, that's a prettynatural partnership.
But when you bring in anoutside person first of all,
what are some of theconversations that you guys had
or should have had up front onthat, and how do you guys make
it work over this long period oftime from a distance too?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
So I'm going to start with a disclaimer.
Partnerships are not easy.
In fact, one of the mainreasons you know we have over
500 real estate investingmembers across the country in
the collective jeans and acrossthe world we have some members
from other countries as well.
The number one reason generallythat I see businesses fall now
(09:45):
they may get back up is businesspartnership divorces.
So I want to put thatdisclaimer out there that
choosing a partner, just likechoosing a partner in life, is
super important that you makesure that that relationship is
one that you are equally alignedon goals from the beginning,
(10:07):
Because a lot of timespartnerships early on is one
person is bringing the money,the other person is bringing the
hustle and if you're notequally aligned on goals from
the beginning, you will growapart.
There's no doubt about it.
It's not much different than apersonal marriage as well, so I
(10:29):
cheat coded this one.
Corey, I don't know if we'veever had this conversation
before.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I don't think so I'm learning that.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
So I've always been someone that prior in my
corporate days I was always onthe lookout, as a sales manager,
for talented individualsspecifically to sell advertising
, and a lot of the times Ienjoyed hiring former athletes.
I enjoyed hiring formerathletes because they were
(10:57):
driven and there was nothing Icould say to them to get the
best from them that they hadn'talready heard from a coach over
their career, to get the bestfrom them that they hadn't
already heard from a coach overtheir career.
And so I had this guy come andinterview with me in 2004,.
I want to say Okay, and he wasa former college baseball player
.
You know, reminded me a lot ofmyself, other than he's a lot
(11:20):
shorter than me and I hired himand you know, as I continued to
go up the corporate ladder, hecontinued.
He wasn't the best sales rep,but he was the best at listening
and applying Again, formercollege athlete listening,
coaching and applying it.
And he was just so loyal and hewas always in my top five as
(11:40):
one of my salespeople.
And when I got a promotion hewas like, hey, if you ever get
your own office, I would love togo with you.
Single, no kids.
We were both single, no kids atthe time and I happened to get
and you want to talk abouthitching your wagon here?
He hitched his wagon tosomebody that went from Wichita
running a division that was verysuccessful to getting a
promotion to run my own officein Hawaii.
(12:03):
Wow, I went out to Hawaii for,I think, eight months.
He got a transfer with thatcompany with me.
Eventually it became my kind ofright hand in Hawaii.
When I came back to go to workfor because my start in real
estate was not on my own I wentto work for someone else.
I did that for five years, butpart of that process he stayed
(12:26):
out in Hawaii when I came backand that was again.
That was one of those things.
Hey, I can't tell you that I'mgoing to be out here forever.
So if you do come out, you'llhave the choice whether you want
to stay or not.
He decided to stay for anothercouple of years and continue to
work for that company and theneventually he's like all right,
it's time for me to come home.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And so eventually ended up hiring him in
acquisitions.
And then, as we both continueto grow in this going, you know
what we could do this on our own, and we should, we owe it to
ourselves to do this at a higherlevel, individually or together
.
And so I cheat coded thisbecause of someone that I've
known, you know, for 20 plusyears and we, you know, it's
(13:10):
like it's like a brother, andhe's only a year younger than me
, if that, we both formerathletes, and just it's like a
brother.
So from that standpoint, it wasvery easy to know who my
partner should be when we madethat jump.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, that's a really good point there, the length of
relationship.
You guys have been through alot.
You've worked together.
You guys apparently likedworking together.
If he's going to move to Hawaiito work with you, absolutely,
and you were like, yeah, come,yeah, that's a pretty good sign
that you're going to movehalfway across the world and
still be able to get along anddo those sort of things that you
guys could probably make itwork together.
(13:49):
I think that's an importantpoint because a lot of people I
see, like you said a lot oftimes, they rush into a
partnership because they'rehungry, they want to get going.
They got a guy that's got somecash, that guy's like, sweet, I
got somebody who will do all thework, let's do a partnership.
And then they never have thosetough conversations up front of
like how's this going to end?
right, because it's going to endat some point more than likely
yeah, the chances are I'll die,so at some point you're going to
(14:13):
die.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Absolutely, and the likelihood that it's going to
end before you die that's veryhigh as well.
The thing I would say early onas a lesson to those that are
considering bringing on apartner because of money, or
considering to bring on apartner because you can't afford
someone, what I would say toyou is this is once you give up
that equity especially if youdon't have a plan in place once
(14:37):
you give up that equity, youcan't get that equity back.
So I would advise instead ofgiving up equity, just give up a
higher percentage of profit.
You don't have to do a certainamount of deal flow and be at a
(15:01):
certain level in your businessto qualify.
But a lot of the peoplebeforehand you know they're
starting to graduate to aprofessional business and
generally it's when they'rethey're getting away from those
50 50 JV splits.
Yes, right, but it's OK to dothose JV 50-50 splits when
you're starting out 100% Becauseyou need capital.
(15:23):
That person wants a return,you've got deals.
You need capital In order tocontinue to grow.
You need more capital andeventually you'll get good
enough to graduate into whereyou don't have to give up that
much percentage.
But give up that JV versusgiving up equity in your company
, especially if you see itcontinuing to grow.
(15:45):
You know, and you want it tocontinue to scale.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, and I usually recommend to people, like you
said, make them a debt partner,not an equity partner.
So what that means for those whodon't know, I just spoke a
bunch of jargon to you.
Have them be like the bank,where they have a note and a
mortgage on that deal inparticular and you're going to
pay them a certain return onthat money.
You don't have to do it all upfront either.
You could backload it so youpay them when you refinance, if
(16:12):
you're doing a BRRRR, when yousell it, so you don't have to be
making payments if you don'thave a lot of liquid cash while
you're trying to improve thesethings, and then you just pay
them off when that thing sells.
Versus, like now, we're 50-50partners and now you're going to
get resentment most likely, asyou're doing all this hard work
and they're just kicking backScrooge McDuck in this thing,
collecting their gold coins andnot really having to do anything
(16:33):
.
You're going to start to feellike, man, I'm doing all the
work here, they're not doinganything, and you forget that
you needed them at the start andit just it breeds.
It breeds some negativity.
We've done a lot of JVs whereit's a one deal hey, we'll 50,
50 this for this flip and that'sit.
It's not.
We're going to form an LLC andwe're going to commit to each
other for X amount of deals andit gets messy.
(16:54):
Well, this one we found.
You didn't find it, so we'regoing to put it in our LLC.
And it's just pretty soonfriendships and families get
broken up real quick.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You just described.
You know the business divorcethat happens more often than any
other, which is I bring insomeone because of capital and
all they're doing is givingcapital.
It's a big part, obviously, ofthe equation, but over time, as
you're dealing with thecontractors and you are up at 5
(17:26):
am and you're not getting homeuntil 9 pm and this person's hey
, when is that going to close?
And all they're doing iscalling you about a closing over
time, that's where thefrustration comes in.
Just simply say you know what?
I need to find a better way todo this, and the cost of capital
should go down as you getbetter and it should.
(17:46):
If it's not, then I wouldencourage you to continue to
look at better options.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, Leon, you had worked when
you went to with theacquisitions guy and then you
guys left that company.
Can you talk a little bit about?
I know there were some, maybethings that the owner did there
and we don't want to disparageanybody or throw anybody under
the bus, but I think there'ssome lessons to be learned from
that divorce of when you werethe I think you were the
operations manager, coo orwhatever you want to call it
(18:14):
yeah, someone called itoperations COO, second in
command, basically theintegrator of the business.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yes, what I would say is this for those that maybe
they've already hired thatintegrator or are thinking about
that in the future, so they canbe that true visionary and that
happens over time, that's notsomething that happens overnight
, but you have someone handlingday-to-day operations, hiring,
managing all of the officepersonnel.
(18:45):
That's basically what I wasdoing.
I came from an environmentwhere I was leading 25 sales
reps selling advertising, so Ihad management and hiring
experience.
Reps selling advertising, andso I had management hiring
experience, and so it was just anatural progression, for, for a
business that was, you know,starting to really grow and
scale, just needed that next popand that operator to do that.
I would say the the biggestlesson I would share from when
(19:09):
you have you've gotten to thatpoint where you can hire C-suite
, executive level people Maybenot Fortune 500 C-suite, but
people that have worked theirway up a management ladder to
run executive.
They're your executive leaderof your team.
Just make sure that you'remeeting their goals as much as
(19:34):
they're helping you meet yours.
That's good and I'll just saythat again, all of your team
should do this.
If you're doing it at a highlevel.
The entire team should bealigned with this, but
especially the person that comesin and helps you continue to
grow double and triple thebusiness.
(19:55):
Make sure that it's not justyour goals that are being
achieved, it's also thatindividual that is working in
the trenches, treating thebusiness like theirs, that they
are also being taken care of ontheir goals.
It's super important Now andsome may say you know well, well
(20:16):
, I don't care about that, okay.
Well, just know that you runthe risk, especially if you have
someone high caliber.
Take care of them.
Yeah, because they will takecare of you long term.
And it's not just that oneindividual person.
To corey's point before, youshould do be doing that with all
of your employees, because ifyou treat them right, when we go
back to before, leverage has acost.
(20:39):
Right, leverage cannot becontinued without taking care.
You can't just leverage yourpeople.
You have to make sure that whatthey're giving you, you're
building that leverage to helpyou grow and scale.
Make sure you take care oftheir goals and their dreams as
well, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
First of all, you got to know what they are right,
yeah, yeah, and we talk aboutthat at Collective Genius.
Eric Brewer, who's a monster inthis space, did a great
presentation on, you know,sitting down with your employees
and we do that here.
We've done that for a long timeof sit down with everybody.
Try to figure.
Most of them are related toreal estate people that come to
work for us.
A lot of them want to buildtheir own portfolios, and so we
(21:17):
take a lot of pride in helpingthem get started and connecting
them and lending them money anddoing all the kinds of stuff to
help them grow their own realestate portfolios or flips or
whatever they're trying to do tosupplement what they're doing
here, so long as it doesn'tinterfere with their day-to-day.
You know there's got to be someboundaries.
There's got to be someboundaries here, of hours here.
But you being on the employeeside, how did you manage that?
How did you keep your and howdo you still because you still
(21:37):
have your own businesses outsideof the collective genius?
How do you keep those twothings separate and not let it
interfere with yourresponsibilities that you've
committed to the collectivegenius for?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So I've been very blessed to have a partner that
really runs day-to-dayoperations.
In fact, as I mentioned before,there was no way that I was
moving away from my home marketunless I had someone that I
could trust to run day-to-dayoperations.
And so each year that I've beenhere for over five years now
(22:08):
I've continued to work less inthat business.
This on purpose.
On purpose, we have grown thiscommunity, the Collective Genius
, over.
When I first started, we onlyhad one community.
Now we have four differentcommunities under the umbrella,
ranging from people doing onedeal a month all the way up to
(22:29):
people having $10 million inbusinesses and above.
Well, this has taken a lot moreof my time, and so I have
purposely made sure that I haveless responsibility on that side
, and so even to a point whereI've now teamed up with another
organization to handle theacquisitions, because, frankly,
(22:51):
my goals of that business areall about the long-term wealth
building and not the acquisitionpiece.
I don't love it anymore.
I'll be honest, corey, that'snot something that I absolutely
love.
I love this.
This is my passion is gettingto know and have members like
yourself in a community that Ican help continue to grow.
(23:14):
That's passion, that'sretirement, and so I've just
continued.
When I need it, I'm involved,but thankfully it's not that
often, yeah no, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
And with that growth and you starting to step away,
does that mean that?
Have you had to give upanything to the partner saying,
hey, you're doing more of thework, so now I'm going to offer
you X percentage more orsomething?
How have you guys had thatconversation?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That is typical, right?
We had that discussion before Ileft, because I knew the
responsibility was going to bemore.
And so, yeah, we negotiated apartnership at a higher
percentage for him, because thatbusiness again going back to
(24:00):
taking care of those that takecare of you we would not have
gotten to, I think, at ourheight.
We were at 75 doors.
We've since peeled back andsold a few.
So at the height know, at 75 Iwould have never gotten to 75 on
my own, and so we negotiatedthat and it was an easy
(24:21):
negotiation.
It was pretty much this is whatit is, um, and you, I just need
you to continue to grow that.
Since then, as I mentionedbefore, we've just continued to
look at how our goals evolved,and both he and I, our goals,
have continued to evolve tostacking wealth with our
(24:44):
portfolio, and that's the twothings that he and I both want
the most.
And so acquisitions is a partof that, but the passion is the
passion is, is, is the rentals,and eventually you know that may
, you know, we may roll thatinto something else, we may sell
those.
There's so many options off ofthat that it's for me, again,
(25:04):
it's become more of a retirementgoal than it is the, the, the
hustle and bustle of growing and, uh, you know, through
acquisitions.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
What do you guys love aboutrentals?
Because I love rentals, but I'mjust curious.
Like you guys are in adifferent market.
You have long-term wealth goalssimilar to myself, but what do
you see Like why you could?
You could do anything in thisspace, which is the sometimes
the blessing and the curse ofreal estate there's so many
different avenues you can take.
You guys have zeroed in onrentals, long-term wealth
building, stack assets.
(25:33):
What was it that made you guysdecide to zero in on that?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Well, like you, being in a market where cap rates are
possible, right where you canactually make money and build
wealth at the same time.
What we lack in Wisconsin andKansas, what we lack in the
upside of appreciation, we getsome of it.
(25:58):
We don't get the big swingslike Florida's and the
California's.
We don't get those big swingseither way.
But we do get consistency andsome appreciation, but we're
still at a cash flow.
We still have the ability tocash flow.
And so the reason I love singlefamily and up to four.
I don't have any apartments.
(26:19):
I do have some four plexes.
What I love about that assetclass it's gotten tougher and
interest rates.
Obviously we've purchased andburned less over the last couple
of years than we had in thepast when interest rates were
low, we were holding everything.
Yeah, and it's just taking whatthe defense gives you right at
the time, the defense gave uslow rates, we we kept as many as
(26:41):
we possibly could.
Right now, rates are a littlebit higher and a little harder
to cash flow and, um, ouracquisitions costs have gone up.
Let's, let's, let's move thosevia flip um or host wholesale
hotel.
What have you?
Yeah, um.
But what I love it more thananything being in a market like
Wichita is I know that I have somuch flexibility with that
(27:04):
portfolio.
I could sell it.
I could sell it on terms.
I could hold it forever,continue to add, you know, 10,
15 doors a year.
There's institutions in time.
To me, I think the biggest playfor the future is if you are
someone that is sitting on acouple hundred doors and maybe
(27:28):
you just get tired of them.
With Wall Street jumping intothis asset class, I think the
more doors that you can hold onto, the better, as Wall Street
is going to continue to come andgrab those and offer you.
As the markets continue toswing, they're going to offer
(27:48):
you much more than you wouldhave sold it to a mom and pop,
and I believe that every housethat we sell to an institution
will never mom and pop.
Buyers will never get thosehouses back, right.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
No.
Blackrock has said they want toown 75% of residential real
estate.
I believe.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
And I could see it happening because you know, if
you look at 2020, 2021, theneighborhoods in places like
here in Tampa, in Atlanta,charlotte, there's neighborhoods
where you know there are maybejust a very small percentage of
actual homeowners inneighborhoods and the rest are
(28:28):
institutionally owned.
I think you're going tocontinue to see that trend,
especially in cities and stateswhere the population continues
to grow, and I think it's only amatter of time before you see a
higher percentage ofinstitutions, and so what I
enjoy about it is the abilityfor it to continue to appreciate
(28:52):
cash flow, and here's thebiggest kicker.
This is where you really havethe cherry on top.
These are all every single doorthat we own are all birth
strategies.
I have zero of my own money inthose properties.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's my favorite.
If you do the math on that,leon, what's your rate of return
when you have no money in andit kicks out money?
Isn't that called infinite?
Oh my gosh yes.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean look, it's pretty simple, right, Corey?
Let me give you $0 and you giveme money back.
I'll take that.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And I love like our team.
I just had a couple coachingcalls with some of our team
yesterday who are buying rentalsand they just got their first
ones.
Like it's so exciting becausethey're like they've got their
first ones.
And one guy is fresh out ofcollege, you know a year out of
college, and he's just he's justgetting rolling and he got his
first one and he's super excited.
His goals when he started werelike I want a house hack, great
first call.
I love that.
I wish I would have house househacked out of college.
(29:52):
Amazing, and that was his goal.
I just want to get a house hackand then we'll see where the
wind goes.
Well, they did the first oneand he's like wait a minute, I
don't need to house hack anymore.
Like I could, I could try to dothis bird thing.
And then we were running throughthe math on a couple of deals
we have out that are we'retaking offers on today, and I
was like dude, this is aninfinite return deal, Like
you'll have no money into itafterwards.
(30:13):
He's got a private lender so hecan use the private lender for
the down payment for the initialrehab phase and then refinance
out of it.
He'll have all of his moneyback.
And I'm like how many of thosedo you want to stack?
It's just, how many of thosecan you find?
And then, how many do you wantto put in your portfolio?
The only thing that would holdit back is fear and money.
Those are the only two thingsfear and access to capital for
(30:35):
those phases.
Or, if it goes wrong, you gotto have a private lender who's
willing to stick some cash inthere with you.
For the long term maybe, butoutside of that there's nothing
that should hold him back frombuilding it as big as he wants
to build it.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
You hit the nail on the head there.
I wanted to make sure that youknow it sounds very easy.
Right, you've got to build somerelationships for private money
up up front to be able to, andbanking relationships so you can
actually refinance that out.
So there's there's some workthere.
But when you are able to getthat system set up, you know
(31:07):
it's just a rinse and repeat.
The one thing I will say as acaveat though the misnomer of
I'm going to own a bunch of realestate and go, you know, in in
10 years and retire, you knowthat's the misnomer is that you
know passive income is neverpassive.
First of all, it is nicebecause you're building equity
(31:31):
and hopefully in markets likeours, you're cash flowing as
well.
But the reality is is,depending upon your financial
situation, you're not going toretire from an active income
standpoint anytime soon,especially when you're birth
strategy, because you are takingsome of that equity when you do
refinance that property andthat could be considered active
(31:57):
income.
But the reality is you're goingto need living expenses and
that's a misnomer is that peoplethink, man, I've got a hundred
doors, I should be able toretire.
You would think in theory, butno one tells you the horror
stories of hey, my cap rate is X, I'm going to make $5,000 this
(32:17):
year on this property.
Let's just use that as a roundnumber.
Well, that's just one HVAC,yeah, right.
Yeah, that's just one bigrepair that now you're at a
break even and that's the horrorstories that no one wants to
tell you, and it's somethingthat you have to make sure you
consider, all things 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
What we set for him for a goal for this, the rest of
this year, is add one moreduplex and do a flip.
So now you've got the flip cashbecause burrs are you're highly
leveraged.
You're not going to cash flowvery much on these bursts, right
Like in my buy box when Irealized the burst strategy and
thankfully we have the activeincome from this business.
The rentals, much like you, arevery passive I still have to be
(32:57):
involved in managing themanager and that kind of thing
but they're very passivecompared to wholesaling and
flipping.
But they require a lot ofcapital, especially during the
acquisitions phase.
You know you got to have accessto the cash somewhere.
So whether that's a friend orfamily member or you're flipping
and you're, you're using thoseflip profits to put in the other
thing.
I would just say this for theaudience listening out there
(33:18):
don't forget about taxes.
So if you're flippingproperties and you're just like,
oh, I'll just take, I made 25grand, I'm going to put it all
into this rental property, well,you're going to have a big old
surprise come April 15th nextyear when all of a sudden the
government's saying, hey, weneed our 34% or 50% of that 25
grand you made and you've got itall tied up now in a property
(33:38):
and you can't liquidate it.
So just a little caveat thereMake sure you're putting aside
cash from those flips orwholesale deals and setting that
aside for tax purposes.
Now, the rentals will helpoffset some of that.
Sure, unless you're a realestate professional by the IRS
standards, we won't get intowhat that all means today, but
you want to make sure you'resetting aside some cash for the
taxes and that stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
All great advice.
Almost everyone that I've hadon the Collective Genius podcast
.
Almost every single investorthat's been in this business 10,
15, 20 years including one Idid yesterday most of them
started their real estate careerwith reading Rich Dad, poor Dad
, yeah, and there's a lot ofgood and a lot of motivation.
(34:22):
A lot of investors that I know,obviously that started their
career there and then theyrealize I think of Jimmy
Vreeland out of St Louisimmediately Like he was working
in medical sales, medical devicesales, making a really, really
good living and got all the wayafter his post-military career,
got all the way to 100 doors andhe was like man, I am rich, I
(34:44):
don't have to.
You know I'm a full-time realestate investor now and he
realized very quickly after hedid not have that medical sales
income coming in anymore that hewas very poor, very fast, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
And that's what you know.
Yes, it can be a great.
It is a great way to buildwealth.
Yes, but the part of that itdoesn't give you is the active
income that you have to makesure.
And so I tell everybody that'sgetting into this business,
especially if you're making agreat W-2 salary.
Number one you're very bankablewhen you have a great job and
(35:21):
just milk that for as long asyou can, because if you really
truly want to burr, the best wayto burr is when you have active
income coming in that's notrelated to your real estate
Bankers.
Go, yeah, of course, come on in, you're very safe.
You're very safe because I cansee that you're making X amount
every month and I know thatyou're going to pay us back
(35:43):
because you're not relying onthose rentals to pay me back.
You're relying on your activeincome.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That is such good advice.
I see that mistake happen a lotof times.
People get some early success,they start getting some momentum
, they're doing a few flips,they picked up a couple of
rentals.
They're like peace, I'm out,I'm doing this full time, baby.
And now?
they go to their bank whothey've been going to the well.
But guys like, ah, yeah, youdon't have any money, so we
can't lend you anymore.
And now they're stuck.
And now they either got to gofind another job or they got to
(36:09):
scrap and go find those privatelenders pretty quickly and start
building that side of theirbusiness.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Establish a track record.
If you're going to make thatjump, you need to have at least
a couple of years of activeincome.
Your profit and loss statementon your active side should be
profitable.
If it is profitable now you canmake that jump and banks go
well.
All right, he's got two yearsof returns here.
He or she has two years ofreturns here where I can
(36:35):
actually see that they'rebankable.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
When I was going to leave corporate America, I had
the conversation with my lenderswho we'd already worked with
and I said, hey, if I quit, areyou guys still going to be able
to lend to me?
And I went to all my banks thatI had already worked with and I
got their commitment that, yeah, you're good, you've shown
success on the wholesale andflip stuff.
You've got the rental stuff,which is fine, but we like
(36:58):
seeing that you've got activestuff going on.
You've got a few flips in thebalance sheet and the hopper
ready to go.
We're good with you.
I'm like, okay, cool, but Iwant to have that conversation
before I pull the plug that I'mout there and that's great
advice because a lot of peopledon't think about that.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
They just leave and haven't had that conversation
with financial institutions thatlove them today.
But as soon as that activeincome goes away, there's some
different questions that you get.
Can you send me your rent roll?
I need to see your rent.
You start getting differenttexts and emails from your
bankers when you are doing itfull time.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah for sure, for sure, good stuff here.
Let's pivot to the collectivegenius.
Again, I don't want this to benecessarily a commercial for
collective genius, but I'm a bigbeliever in your net worth is
your net worth.
I all that, which way it goes,yeah, either way, get around
some smart people that are doingmore than that's right.
Learn a lot, right, talk alittle bit about the collective
genius that what you guys havebecause you have different
(37:57):
levels.
Now you guys you know whethersomebody wants to be a part of
this or not.
Let's just talk about you knowwhat, what you guys do over
there briefly before we start towrap up.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
So, CG aside, I preach community and coaching
and mentorship.
Right, take CG out of it for asecond.
If you are in any type ofbusiness apprenticeship,
community relationship,mentorship these are all things
important as entrepreneurs.
What we do, not a lot of peopledo, and so you need to be
(38:30):
around other people that aredoing it and, hopefully, that
are doing it better or ahead ofyou.
That's what the collectivegenius is.
When Jason Medley started thisorganization 14 years ago, a lot
of real estate investorsbecause he was a lender a lot of
real estate investors their wayof acquiring deals at the
courthouse steps started to dryup and they needed to talk to
(38:52):
other real estate investors ofwhat are you using in California
that's working for you, and I'min Texas and this is working
for me and I'm in New York.
And so it was just that I meanthe word mastermind and the
think and grow rich is the firsttime that it was really
mentioned in a business book 100years ago.
And so it's just thatphilosophy getting around other
(39:15):
like-minded individuals thathopefully are a little bit ahead
of you, that you can bringvalue to them and vice versa.
And when I joined, I was stillthat COO for that business that
we talked about earlier, we hadjust barely qualified.
Now we have four differenttiers that qualifications start
at.
You've got to be a full-timereal estate investor doing at
(39:35):
least a deal a month, all theway up to people that are net
worths of $50 million maybe more.
So there are different tiers,but it's four full-time real
estate investors coming to learnhow to continue to grow and
scale, and that's the othercaveat they have to want to
continue to grow and scale theirbusiness grow as people, grow
as business owners and all thelike.
(39:57):
But when we joined man, Italked to one individual that
had no business, like he didn'thave to help me at all.
Yeah, had lunch with him andjust that one conversation had
plenty of conversations, butthat one conversation led to us
going from 50 flips a year tothe next year doing 70.
(40:20):
So we had increased over 20deals in one year from the
advice that I took and actuallyhad more than one.
Over 20 deals in one year fromthe advice that I took and
actually had more than one.
But I remember one specificconversation that I had that
just took us over that next top,and so it was also the mind
thing right, the old banister,roger's banister, the old
(40:40):
four-minute mile right.
We clearly knew that now that 50we thought was our tops, we now
knew that we were havingself-limiting beliefs that we
couldn't do more than that, andit's that was the biggest thing
I take away.
It was just I knew that I coulddo more, because I was seeing
(41:01):
others do more, for sure, and sothat's ultimately why, cory I
think I've told you this Iwanted to continue to stay in
the business, yeah, but thepassion that I saw in that room
of connecting people with otherlike-minded people, I was like
Jason, I don't know how I'mgoing to do this, but I want to
be a part of it.
Yeah, and here we are.
I went full-time withCollective Genius seven years
(41:24):
ago.
Yeah, with Collective Geniusseven years ago, I have had
literally thousands of consultswith investors across the
country and world that haveended up joining this great
group and some that didn't.
And, like, I talked to someonethree years ago that just joined
yesterday.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Wow Right, oh baby, there's a little lesson for you
right there too.
Well, but it's also timingright.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, people got to be ready.
Yeah, baby, there's a littlelesson for you right there too.
Well, but it's also timingright.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, people got to be ready.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And it's never a sales pressure thing, it's
always just you.
Let me know when you're readyto continue to grow and scale,
because when you are, when youare, we'll be here and I know
that if you do this right, youparticipate at the highest level
.
Come to the meetings, show upfor the training calls, like
today.
Yesterday we had one of thesefor our premier level.
(42:12):
Today we're going to have oneof these for our select level.
These are different tierswithin the group.
We're going to have it allhands on deck.
We had 75 people on a callyesterday going what's going on
in Houston, phoenix, portland,new Hampshire All of these
different areas and regions aregoing.
Hey, what are you seeing in themarket right now?
Is days on market going up?
(42:34):
Are you having issues sellingproperties?
These are conversations that wehave not only at the meetings,
but we also have on our trainingcalls and we'll have one of
those today.
Not only at the meetings, butwe also have on our training
calls and we'll have one ofthose today, and so I'll always
know across the country whatwe're seeing.
And, oddly enough, with thatcall yesterday, the biggest
(42:57):
takeaway I had, corey, was it'smuch to do about nothing right
now.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Meaning that we should all prepare that days on
market probably will continue togo up.
You should expect ARV topotentially come down.
The one caveat to that is thisIf interest rates come down,
then you might not see a slowyou know this continue to slowly
get a little worse on days onmarket and ARVs going down.
(43:23):
If interest rates come down,then all bets are off.
But I would be preparing basedupon that conversation, that
it's not today, but I wouldprepare just in case the market
continues the way it is andhonestly, you know this, this is
just normalization.
The way the market was in 2017and 18 is very similar.
(43:47):
Inventory is still super lowcompared to 2017 and 18.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, well, we see that when we have the Habiba
guys come in and they show usthe charts of inventory levels
compared to when the crashhappened, right, correct, we're
still a decade behind where weshould be as far as new
inventory goes, or new builds go.
According to their data, thatwould show that we're gonna.
We're gonna be in this spot fora while, especially as there's,
you know, the hot word tariff.
Right, I'm gonna throw tariffsout there.
(44:13):
It means a great tariffs outhere.
It's amazing, uh they, uhworking out a little bit, uh,
they, but you know, you're gonnahave some, some, possibly some
supply chain stuff, some things.
Costs are gonna go up, whichcould potentially hold people
back from building new homeseven more, which is going to
cause again we're just not goingto get past this little bubble
(44:33):
for a while of low inventory.
As far as the new inventorygoes, from the data that I've
been looking at anyway and I'mno oracle over here, no, Our job
is to never predict the future.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
It's just to prepare you and the more information
that you have, not only in yourhome region, because we know in
the Midwest things can be slowto get to the Midwest they
happen in bigger markets or onthe coast.
First, you know, I track whathappens in Phoenix, I track what
happens in San Diego and Miamiand some of these bigger markets
(45:07):
, because we know that stufftrickles.
But at the same time, ourappreciation again Idaho between
(45:29):
2020 and 2022, before interestrates went back up.
I don't see that in the Midwest, you don't see that, and so
therefore, my ARV I might haveto adjust 5% to 10% in a slower
market right.
Yeah, in a slower market rightthey are.
You know, after repair valuefor them or new construction
(45:51):
values, they may have builtsomething, thinking it was going
to be worth half a million inJanuary of 22.
Interest rates changed March of22.
Now that thing is worth 300.
Well, that number doesn'tpencil anymore, right, and so I
track that.
But I also take it with a grainof salt and understand that my
(46:12):
percentages are going to bedifferent than those that are in
those markets that had massive,massive upswings, like the
Austins, the Phoenixes andspecifically Boise, Idaho.
All the Californians weremoving there during COVID, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
And I think one thing go back to what you talked
about before with the ARVsadjusting and what's happening
currently.
This is the beautiful partabout rental real estate it's
buy and hold it's long term.
So right now you're potentiallygoing to get a deal because
interest rates are still steady.
They're still higher than whatwe expect right, expect right.
(46:51):
And when the interest ratesdrop, that value of all of your
whole portfolio that you'rebuying today in this higher
interest rate it's going to goup because there's going to be
more demand in the market.
So the best time to plant thetree was 20 years ago, leon.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Our buddy, sam Prim, says every 15 years, your real
estate portfolio will double invalue.
And Sam, if you don't know him,he's a good follower out of St
Louis, so not too far still aMidwest guy.
You know he's so right, like I.
You know the beauty of havingthat rental portfolio is even
(47:20):
Corey.
If we got in trouble, like youknow, the business was shutting
down Well, I have some assets tobe able to move if need be.
So you start with active income, whether that's a W-2 or
wholesaling, and hopefully thegoal is to continue to grow
(47:41):
assets because of taxprotections, but also business
protection as well.
We have some people thatsometimes say you know, hey, I'm
struggling right now.
Well, how many doors do youhave?
Well, I have 125.
Okay, so you're not struggling.
Well, yeah, yeah, I don't have,I don't have any cash flow.
Well, yeah, you do.
You have to sell some of the125 doors.
(48:03):
That's a vanity play.
You continue to get your doorshigher.
The reality is you're going tohave to sell a few of those to
continue to keep the businessgrowing.
That's right.
You've got to feed the beast.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point, and
we'll wrap after this because Iknow you've got to get rolling
too.
But when I'm talking to some ofthe investors in our market, we
sit there, we look at like,right now the market's hot, it's
too hot, it's been hot forever.
But that's sometimes what holdspeople back is they're like
well, I'm waiting for this ARVpullback that you were talking
about a little bit right.
And then we get into the actualgoals and it's like well, in
(48:37):
five years I want to be able tonot have to work, right, I want
flexibility, so I need cash flowfor my rentals to be able to do
that.
And then when we really look atthe equity play, we're like
well, if you're burying thisthing, you've got 20% equity or
something like that on aproperty.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
That's right, so you're already there's your
profit right there.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Now you start the clock the minute you buy that
property right.
And so now the tenant startspaying your debt down and the
market, generally speaking overthe last 76 years, typically
appreciates, even if it's 4% or5% a year.
And now you start to createthis gap between what it's worth
and what you owe and it justgets bigger and bigger and
bigger and in five years youlook at some of these properties
you've got six figures ofspread on there.
(49:14):
So you buy two a year, you selltwo every five years, you just
keep doing that and now you'vegot your income to support your
lifestyle from the sale of thoseproperties and that's your
quote, unquote cashflow, even ifthey don't make a significant
amount annually that you'reputting in, or monthly, into
your bank account.
You're creating that equity andthat wealth and that
flexibility like you describedearlier.
(49:34):
It's one of the reasons why youlove the rental game.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Well, and here's one other thing I love that I missed
before Our markets are marketswhere we can make mistakes, and
time will cure those mistakesright.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yes yes.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
So when you know, I probably I think I maybe
mentioned this to you before Iprobably got 20, 25 doors in my
portfolio that were flipped,mistakes right, okay, but I've
held them for eight years nowand they're no longer a mistake
right.
And so being in markets likeWisconsin and being in markets
like Kansas, we can do that, wehave the ability and that's
(50:14):
again I'm playing where I'msupposed to be playing, which is
I'm laser focused on affordablehomes, that if I cannot find a
buyer on the flip side that Iknow I can, that property in
cash flow it might not be much,but I know it then becomes and
transforms into an equity play.
(50:34):
I will say this as well as alast kind of point to home
ownership, especially as alandlord.
There's over 500 members in theCollective Genius again across
the country and a few across theworld.
I only know of a couple thathave their entire portfolios
(50:57):
free and clear that don't haveto work Now.
Both of them have a little bitmore gray than I do on their
heads, which means they've beenin this business for a long
period of time, but very few owntheir properties free and clear
and have the flexibility ifthey want Now that doesn't mean
(51:19):
that you can't accomplish that,but the highest level people
that I know that are alwaysgrowing their business.
Very few of them own outright.
That doesn't mean they don'thave a bunch of equity, that
they have flexibility if they dowant to make those changes in
the future.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, and I like to think of it as chess pieces as
you add more assets and you getequity.
Now you can sell it or you canrefinance it.
You pull that out as a loan,proceed tax-free until you sell.
Then you've got to pay it.
But if you don't ever sell andyou just keep refinancing these
things, it's the gift that keepsgiving tax-free, creates your
own annuity tax-free.
It's a beautiful thing.
We could probably sit here andjust love on rentals for another
(51:59):
hour love on rentals foranother hour, but we got to wrap
.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
We got to wrap.
We got to get you out of here,buddy.
Well, before we get me out ofhere, I do want to say this
about you and to your listenersin Wisconsin Coming to Green Bay
to be a part of Kansas CityChiefs I'm originally from
Kansas City.
You invited us up, you weregracious enough to invite us up
not only to your home but to thegame and take part in
tailgating and all those things.
(52:23):
And I say that specificallybecause you know we met through
the collective genius and I cansay that for those in the Green
Bay area anything that Coreydoes from a podcast or training,
just do it.
Whatever Corey says, just do it.
(52:44):
Partake in any type of meetupsthat he's doing.
He's just such a giver.
I don't know many people in CGthat have ever treated their
employees better from thestandpoint of making sure
consistently making sure thatthey accomplish their goals of
what they want Maybe to a fault,even at times right, but you
and your family have such a bigheart and I can say this you
(53:07):
don't just do it for your family, you do it for your team's
family, but you also do it withlove for your community and it's
true, a lot of people do thisjust to be wealthy.
You do it because you want morefor your community beyond just
your business, which is really,really cool to see, and I wanted
to make sure I said that sopeople in Wisconsin can hear
(53:29):
that.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Oh, I appreciate that , man.
I'll send you a check afterthis for that little.
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Okay, all right.
All right, send me one of thoseresiduals.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I'll get you a little residual check.
I'll give you one of my units,I'll send you there the cash
flow To the point of the.
I appreciate that, landon, thatwas very thoughtful, nice.
The meetups, though, we do.
If you're not ready to get intosomething like a Collective
Genius or you want somethingmore local, regular, we do run
the REI Success Club in GreenBay, so if you're not part of
that, you can go on Facebook,look up REI Success.
(53:57):
It'll bring you to the group.
You can get into the Facebookgroup, which is a great
community there.
If you're not ready to come to aphysical meetup, there's a
great networking in there, witha lot of folks investing in
Wisconsin, northeast Wisconsinmostly.
In particular, there's othernetworking opportunities for you
guys.
We have a great real estatecommunity in Wisconsin, so we're
very blessed to be a part ofthat.
There's another group calledCaffeine and Cashflow.
I had Zach Morgan on here a fewepisodes ago who runs that
(54:21):
thing, and we will usually havesomebody there to participate,
and he has locations all overthe eastern side of the state.
Here there's Wisco Ria, whichis a real estate association
meetup.
There's Apple.
There's tons of them.
So, get involved, guys.
There's no excuse to getinvolved in the networking piece
, and you guys have heard mepreach this a million times.
It's super impactful.
(54:42):
Leon, if somebody wanted toinquire about the Collective
Genius, what's the best way forthem to go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (54:49):
So two ways.
Number one is our website isthecollectivegeniuscom.
You get all the informationabout all the tiers and what it
is that we do.
Or are you just interested inlearning more about what you
know, the type of members,including Corey, who just we
just shot his episode hererecently.
We just started the podcastthis year.
I think we're 10 episodes in,so you can find that wherever
(55:13):
you get your podcast.
That's a good listen for sure,and we just talk about the
journey of the highest and bestreal estate investors in the
country, so it's a great listen.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, and Leon's a great interviewer as well, guys.
So he comes from a sportsbroadcasting background, so you
can imagine the interview stylehe has.
It's very comforting for theguests.
I can say that from being onthe other side of the microphone
.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
I'm a reporter by nature, that's right.
That's right, Leon.
Before we wrap, we always askeverybody favorite Wisconsin
tradition or place to visit.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Now you might have limited experience here based on
your….
No, I actually have a littlebit of experience.
That sports broadcasting careertook me to Milwaukee several
times.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
And went to several Bucs games because the soccer
team that I worked for playedthe Milwaukee Wave, which, for
those that are listening to this, maybe in Milwaukee indoor
soccer in Milwaukee they werelike the San Antonio Spurs of
that league.
They won all kinds ofchampionships and so we played
them quite often when I wasfresh out of college doing radio
(56:16):
play-by-play for an indoorsoccer team and they had is it
Summerfest?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
What is it in Milwaukee?
Yeah, summerfest.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Wow, that's hands down, brought some beer back
when I could still eat pork.
That was one of my favoriteexperiences and I believe it or
not, I'm not.
I never lived in Wisconsin, butI do have family in Milwaukee,
so I'm officially.
You know, I've been thereplenty of times, you've got some
ties.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Hey, by the way, that game that we went to, who won
that game of the Packers versusChiefs?
Speaker 2 (56:48):
Oh, you know, the Packers did win that, but I
think that year someone else wonthe Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
So we basically won the Super Bowl because we beat
the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
How about that?
Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
I think we all won that day.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, Leon, I appreciate youbeing on, brother.
I know this is going to be oneof the most downloaded and
shared episodes.
I want to encourage you guys toshare the episode.
Leon talked about that oneconversation he had that caused
him to add 20 more flips thispodcast, albeit not a
conversation that those of youlistening are involved in.
You are listening to this andthis could be the conversation
somebody else needs to hear forthem to be able to hockey stick
(57:28):
their business or get themstarted and create generational
wealth for them, their family,their community and also those
sorts of things.
So please share it, notnecessarily for us, but for
those folks out there in yournetwork that need to hear these
types of things.
Leon, appreciate you being on,brother.
We'll get that link in the shownotes, so if anybody wants to
inquire about getting involvedin the Collective Genius, they
can go there.
Make sure they put down thatthey heard it on the podcast so
(57:48):
they know where you guys camefrom.
And any last words for theaudience here.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Just get involved.
Again, I want to reiterate thisthere are not many people in
this business that are moregenuine than the Raymonds.
You guys do a great job and,whatever meetups or communities,
get involved, because they'rejust great human beings.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Appreciate you, buddy .
All right guys, Thanks fortuning in.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
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