October 29, 2025 • 33 mins
This episode explores the dynamic and static components of our personality. Cohosts Dee Kelley and Jim Shalley provide useful examples of how these different styles complement one another and antagonize one another. Some of the key points include the following:
1. A dynamic energy or style is typically action-oriented, creating movement and change. A static energy or style organizes, puts systems in place and manages.
2. A person who has an overtly static personality will often come to therapy because of unhappiness. A person who has an overtly dynamic personality will typically come to therapy because they have screwed something up.
3. In the midst of a conflict, the dynamic energy wants to move forward, while the static energy wants to talk about the hurt.
4. “Stop and smell the roses” is the challenge for the dynamic personality style. The static personality is consumed with responsibility and predictability. The challenge for the static style is spontaneity. Everyone benefits from getting in touch with the “undeveloped side” of themselves.
5. What you find attractive in others often tells you what lacks development in yourself. Therefore, dynamic is often attracted to static, and static is often attracted to dynamic.
6. The integrated self balances the dynamic and static styles within.
7. One of the most important components of a healthy relationship is validation, which in many ways is a combination of trust and mutual respect.
8. In a relationship, consider shifting from an oppositional posture in your communication, to a posture where you intentionally learn from one another.
You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:
AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / https://www.inyourdreams.coach/contact (Dr. Kelley)
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:13):
Welcome to Therapy Coaching in Dreams.
I'm Dee Kelly, and I'm here withmy co-host, Jim Shaley.
We're a coach and a therapistwho love talking about how inner
work can help you with moreawareness, purpose, and freedom.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome everyone.
Today we're talking about waysto understand our personality.
(00:34):
There are numerous approaches todoing that, and there are
several theories that dominatethe landscape.
One that has been around for awhile in various forms is the
Enneagram, which proposes ninedifferent styles or patterns for
how a person interacts withpeople and circumstances.
A more recent approach isinternal family systems theory,
(00:55):
which proposes multiple parts orpersonalities of an individual,
which influence and manage aperson's interaction with the
world and with one's internallife.
Several theories have roots inYunyan psychology, which is what
we're going to look at today.
This is an approach that wemention often and both of us use
(01:15):
in our respective therapy andcoaching practices.
At its core, this approach usestwo dimensions.
The first is how energy guides aperson, whether that energy is
primarily focused on action ormovement, which you refer to as
a dynamic approach, or if thatenergy is more attentive to
(01:38):
stabilizing the environment orsituation, which is typically
referred to as a static energy.
So, Jim, explain for us.
A person comes to you, they arein a very responsible position
vocationally.
I don't know if they're a CEO, asurgeon, or whatever the role is
that they might have, but theyfind that they are often in
(01:59):
conflict and they've come to youfor help.
What would be the differencebetween a dynamic personality
style and a static personalitystyle in regard to conflict or
how somebody handles conflict?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
A great question.
Initially, I would almostimmediately diagnose a CEO that
comes to me for therapy as adynamic personality.
And the advantage of a dynamicpersonality is they come in
pretty purposeful.
They've had a conflict at work,they've had something at home
happen, something that kind ofmotivated them to say, okay, I
(02:35):
need to do something about this.
That dynamic approach, typicallythey'll take suggestions,
they'll take advice, and theywill usually implement.
A static personality will comeinto therapy, and oftentimes
they'll not understand what hashappened or what the problem is
(02:55):
because they are so static intheir approach to life, which
means basically that theystabilize things.
They just bring things intotheir lives and they kind of
bring order to them and theydon't like a lot of change.
All of that affects uh how theyapproach their issues.
(03:15):
And whereas a dynamicpersonality will come in and
say, okay, what do I need to dohere?
Now, the downside of a dynamicpersonality would be that they
go in full wholeheartedly withthe suggestions you give them,
and so they need to be tempereda little bit.
Whereas a static personalitywill come in and try to discuss
(03:37):
how many different ways we coulddo something before they
actually do something.
So again, it sounds like one'spositive, one's negative.
They're just really differentexpressions, like you described,
of how we handle our lives.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
There is a phrase in business that is sometimes used
called the paralysis ofanalysis.
Right.
I'm assuming that that's in someways what you're describing with
a more static or stabilizingenergy is that they want to
analyze and then analyze againto make sure that they're not
missing anything before theymove forward.
(04:11):
Is that fair?
Yeah.
unknown (04:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Yeah.
So um then and again, I know youdeal with what's presented to
you, but what would cause aperson who has a very dynamic
energy to enter into conflict?
And tied with that, are theysometimes the last one to know
that there's conflict as theymove forward?
(04:36):
And what kind of conflict orways by which a person who is
more static in their energymight they enter into conflict
in the workforce or in the home?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
One of the challenges for the dynamic
personality type, unfortunately,oftentimes they'll come into
therapy because they aredynamic.
In other words, to use theextreme example, they've had an
affair where they're unhappysomewhere in their life, but
they can't put a finger on it.
They meet someone at the wrongtime and they engage in an
(05:12):
affair.
So typically that brings theminto therapy because of the very
dynamic personality that theyhave.
And so that's the downside ofthe dynamic personality.
They bring, they can bringsituations that have to be dealt
with because they keep moving.
On the other hand, the staticpersonality oftentimes will
(05:34):
cause therapy to happen becausethey have not moved much, they
haven't grown much, they haven'tunderstood uh some of the
nuances of relationship, andthey'll be frustrated because my
typically my husband alwayswants to do this.
I have no interest in doingthat.
So it starts to bring it startsto cause tension in the
(05:55):
relationship from thatperspective.
But yeah, what causes a staticpersonality to go into therapy
typically is unhappiness.
Whereas a dynamic personalitywill come into therapy because
they've done they've screwedsomething up, if I had to put it
pretty casually.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
And they're looking for somebody to help them fix it
quickly and move forward.
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Right.
Yeah.
In fact, dynamic personalitywill oftentimes be frustrated
with the process, especially ifit's a couple's counseling,
where uh they've they've messedup and they'll not want to talk
about it anymore.
They just want to keep movingforward.
The static personality will wantto talk about it all the time
(06:37):
and will bring it up over andover again.
The one challenge I have for adynamic personality is to use
that style by on purpose,occasionally, without any
prompting, bring up what theydid that causes the injury in
the relationship.
And for a dynamic personality,that's counterintuitive.
Why would I do that?
It's like that's gonna cause anargument.
(07:00):
And the typically the otherpartner will almost always say,
it addresses my hurt andaddresses her static her,
typically it's the woman, butoftentimes it's the man too.
It addresses that static partthat wants to know that you know
it affected me and hurt me.
And that's that's theinteresting part as far as the
(07:23):
static personality willoftentimes hold on to something
because the dynamic personalitywon't acknowledge it enough.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Wow.
Um, so let me you've alreadystarted to hint at this, but let
me ask you to carry it a littlebit further.
We often talk about um theimportance of being uh able to
access different parts of who weare.
(07:52):
So if a person who has a verystrong dynamic energy, which can
be incredibly charismatic andattractive because they uh
they're the energy that pushedthe cart pushes the cart
forward, that people kind ofjoin in and hang on to that.
But when there is too much ofthat in a person's life, what
(08:17):
will they miss out on if theyare not aware of another part of
themselves that would benefitfrom a more balanced approach?
SPEAKER_00 (08:27):
Well, the the the the the phrase really is uh stop
and smell the roses.
Dynamic personalities, they theymay cut the rose uh off and then
send it to somebody as a tokenof something, but they won't
stop and necessarily smell therose.
Uh yeah, I mean it's it's the Ihave a client right now that uh
(08:54):
they want to go on vacation andjust sit at the beach.
The man never sits still.
That's like torture.
And so I'm trying to work out anegotiation to where one
vacation uh or a few days of avacation, they'll sit and just
(09:14):
uh you know stare at the stareat the ocean or whatever,
whatever he's gonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Let me guess what type you are in this.
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
Uh yeah.
So that's always fascinating tome because uh you have to get in
touch with the other side ofyourself.
And so I've I asked thatgentleman, it was the man that
that that wants to sightseebasically.
And he said, Why would I whywould I do that?
I said, Well, because in yoursilence and just reflecting on
(09:49):
things, what would you thinkabout?
And again, that's where thedynamic personality goes, well,
I'd probably come up with uh anew business plan or some way to
improve something here orsomething there.
I said, Yeah, you want to keepmoving even in your brain.
I said, so you could do that.
You could read a book, you coulddo things like that that feel
how that have movement to them.
Uh, but typically uh I said, youthe other person will go along
(10:13):
with you when you do all thesefun things, but they'll be
exhausted at the end of the dayand you'll be surprised, like,
that was great, wasn't it?
And the static personality willoften goes, uh yeah, that was
that was really good.
You know, can we can we just sittomorrow?
SPEAKER_01 (10:31):
Okay, so then help me with this, Jim, because uh
one of the things that you don'twant is for somebody to lose
that enjoyment of life, thesatisfaction that comes with
living into that part of theirjourney.
It sounds like you are askingsomebody to actually put that on
hold as opposed to invitingthem, and this is, I guess, just
(10:55):
from my perspective, butinviting them into a space that
will actually expand theirappreciation for a different way
to see the world, a differentperspective.
So help me to understand what isthe upside for somebody who has
a strong dynamic energy to tapinto that part as opposed to
(11:16):
just a better relationship.
Okay, I'm doing this to pleasemy partner, or I'm doing this to
please my coworker, but is thereany satisfaction that comes from
that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Well, the uh the the uh thing I recommend for really
strong dynamic personalities.
Uh I had a guy recently thatcame in and he's really dynamic.
He's got he's all over the worlddoing all these things, and and
uh I was exhausted listening tohim, but he was always moving.
He said, So what you'redescribing is if I were to slow
(11:47):
down, how would I do that?
And I said, Do you have a deck?
He goes, Well, yeah.
I said, okay, on your deck, ifyou sit out on your deck, I
said, is there are there treesaround?
And he said, Yes, there aretrees.
I said, so then you startidentifying with that who that
what that tree is.
You try you start looking at theanimals, the birds that might be
flying.
I said, you start focusing onthe nature around you, so you
(12:09):
get in touch with a differentaspect of yourself.
Even if it is a little bitdynamic of identifying things,
it still gets you in the moment.
And I think for the dynamicpersonality, the moment is to
manipulate, not to be in.
So to your to your point, isthere value in that?
I absolutely think there is,because almost always those
(12:31):
people are in relationship witha static personality.
And I will always say it's lookat the attraction.
The attraction tells you whatpart of you you may need to
develop.
And for a static personality,they're typically in a
relationship with a dynamicpersonality.
So what's that balance looklike?
(12:53):
That's real helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
I I think that I have found that those who have a
very, very strong dynamic sideto their journey and follow that
dynamic energy, that they oftenare reluctant to do much inner
work because they find suchgreat success in the outer
(13:17):
expression of the dynamicenergy.
So at some point in time, thereis a recognition of, yeah, I see
all of these things externally,but trying to draw somebody into
seeing the color of life in adifferent way, the inward
journey and what it might bring.
(13:37):
Um, for example, being attractedto somebody who's very musical.
Maybe they're not dynamic inother ways, but that musical or
artistic side or the joy thatcomes with nurturing and
compassionate work.
But more particularly, inwardlyfocusing is what I think you
were trying to get to when yousay sit on the deck, get in
(13:59):
touch with nature, but get intouch with what nature does to
that which is inside of you, andstart feeling the feelings of
success or disappointment, thefeelings of joy or the feelings
of frustration and what thattells you about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Yeah, the feeling level does slow us down.
And that's why I said earlierthat fortunately or
unfortunately, it works out.
Usually the dynamic personalitycauses some type of trauma.
That trauma then gets theirattention, and then they begin
to investigate their feelinglevel.
(14:37):
And sometimes they just want asymptom relief.
So just help me feel better.
So if there's a break in brokenrelationship, oftentimes they'll
jump right into anotherrelationship and they don't take
advantage of what I think uh theuniverse is trying to tell them,
which is to slow down andexamine your inner life.
Uh fortunately, I've had severalmen that have been able they've
(15:00):
caused great pain, but they'vealso been able to really take a
look internally, but that stillis difficult for them because
they want an answer.
And yet the answer within is tounderstand themselves better and
how they interact and just whatthe feelings are trying to tell
them.
And that's that's reallychallenging sometimes for but if
(15:21):
they get a glimpse of it, theyreally can grow it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
I like that.
Yeah, I think that when there isa reward or a um some sense of
gratification when they have anew idea or a new way of looking
at themselves or the world, thatthat becomes enticing to keep uh
going to that place again andagain.
(15:47):
Let's take the other posture ofthat when there's too much of
the static energy, becausestatic energy um or stabilizing
energy is in many ways whatmakes the world function in a
reasonable way.
Right.
Or at least helping to make itfunction for more people, more
(16:08):
circumstances, um, as those whohave that stabilizing energy
organize the world and try andcreate systems for it.
So if there's too much of that,what is that person missing out
on that you hope to give them aglimpse of what it might look
like if they weren't sodominated by a stabilizing or
static energy?
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
They're caught up in being super responsible.
And so they err on the side ofresponsibility being the most
important thing.
Why would you even think ofriding a motorcycle?
You have three kids.
That's a great example.
That's the that's the extreme.
Uh because that typically thatthey'll be married to a static
(16:55):
personality who will basicallysay, Why would you even think to
do that?
Whereas if you can get a staticpersonality on the back of a
motorcycle once, they'll loveit, but that doesn't mean
they'll go jump on a motorcycleagain.
They enjoyed the experience, butthey had to be talked into it.
So I think that's where thestrength is order and
predictability and uh what achild needs until age five or
(17:18):
six, it's absolutely crucial.
The downside is it becomes sorigid that you can't move beyond
that.
And, you know, it's like inparenting, the mother may do
great until age three or four.
The father then kicks in andbegins to expand the risk taking
oftentimes, or I would say inour framework, the masculine,
(17:39):
because sometimes women will dothe same thing and some men are
more passive in that sense.
Uh but yeah, the the staticpersonality, super responsible,
to the extreme they can becomepretty judgmental and ask the
question, why would you do that?
Uh, you know, my mother wasfamous for wanting to know why I
would build way back in thewoods the house that I have in
(18:01):
the woods, because why would youdo that?
Well, because that's where Iwant it.
But it made no sense.
She said, well, people can'teven see the house.
But you build it out by the pondanyway.
Just an interesting approach tohow people's, you know, their
filters drive them.
And so it makes perfect sense todo it the way it's supposed to
(18:22):
be done.
Because again, the staticpersonality has a strong should
voice.
Life should be a certain way.
And there's truth to that.
Knowing when to lighten up andlet it become broader is the
same way a dynamic personalityneeds to use the value of the
static to know when to be moreresponsible and not act out
(18:44):
impulsively with some thingsthat that you may want to do.
And again, the plastic thing isshould I should I ride a
motorcycle?
Should I skydive?
Should I do any of these riskythings if I uh have a family?
Now, the integrated self uh willalmost always balance that out
naturally.
(19:05):
If there's a typically it's theI don't want to sound too uh too
gender specific, but if there'sa woman who's static who trusts
her husband with the kids, theywill let them do risky
behaviors.
And that's such life-giving,especially for I would say the
masculine or the boys, forhaving both both parents embrace
(19:27):
the risk taking.
And in my mind, that's that'sthe balance because I can only
trust that if I'm the feminineor if I'm the stabilizer, if the
dynamic is responsible to thepoint that makes sense.
So we're not going to go out andride a dirt bike with no helmet
or no protection or no padding.
That's the compromise.
(19:47):
That's that's the dance.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
And that whole notion of um healthy or balanced
applies to all of the things wetalk about, like is it a healthy
dynamic energy?
Is it a healthy stabilizing orstatic energy?
Is it a healthy masculineenergy?
Is it a healthy feminine energythat I think we have within us
(20:15):
probably driven oftenunconsciously, but a sense when
something doesn't seem balanced,when it seems dangerous, when it
seems overly restrictive orwhatever the case might be.
And we react in relationship tothat, often reacting out of the
unconscious.
But if we bring those thoughtsfurther to the surface, we'll be
able to articulate why it seemsunsafe or why we have the
(20:37):
concern.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
Right.
So would would you in your dreamwork, how would how would it be
expressed in a dream that thatthat dance of would it would a
dream expose where one islacking or overcompensating?
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
It comes out in a variety of ways.
It can it can sometimes come outin a plot line where you have
certain things that happenwithin a dream that make you
incredibly uncomfortable, orthings in a dream that you're
automatically attracted to.
And sometimes those plot linescan give you an indicator of
where you fall on this spectrum.
(21:17):
Um, it also comes out in the umthe gender mix of the dream.
Uh, there are times whensomebody will come and every
character in the dream will be amasculine image.
And so the question then is whatis that masculine side trying to
(21:37):
draw you to?
How what is the story behind acomplete absence of any feminine
voice in this dream?
And what's going on in your liferight now that might create that
kind of an imagery that got yourattention?
Um, so yeah, it comes out in avariety of ways, but often the
plot line or the action that'staking place will sometimes
(22:00):
describe a um dynamic versusstatic energy in what's
happening.
I had a couple one time thatcame in, and in this particular
situation, the male wasdescribed by both of them as
being the one who wasspontaneous, wanted to do things
(22:22):
in the stir in the in themoment, and just with very
little notice to say, hey, let'sdo this for the weekend, or
let's uh do this particularthing.
And in again, in this particularcase, the spouse, the wife, was
the one who was incrediblyresponsible, took care of the
(22:46):
family budget, was very aware ofthe obligations and commitments
they have.
And they followed a very typicalpattern.
And that is that the person whowas spontaneous, wanting to
model for their spouse how greatthat is, would propose even more
spontaneous things and wastrying to live and show them how
(23:07):
wonderful that is.
And the woman in this case, themore static energy, was forced
to move to an even morepolarized position of who's
going to take responsibility forall of these things, these
bills?
And they just distancedthemselves more and more because
they thought that it would modelwell for their partner.
(23:30):
I um looked at the um woman andI said to her, can I just ask,
what would it feel like to youif you knew that your partner
was being responsible and youhad the opportunity for one of
these occasions to be thespontaneous ones.
(23:51):
And her response was oh mygoodness, it would be the
greatest day in my life to beable to be the one who initiated
spontaneity, but how can I?
Because he's not takingresponsibility for anything.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
And that's a whole different conversation because
what miss is missing is thevalidation piece.
Yes.
They can't hear me at all unlessI validate their view and how
important it is to them.
So you're right they they theythey go the polar opposites well
wait a minute let me let me showyou how much fun this is nope
I'm going to show you how you'regoing to die if you do that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Or I'm going to show you how we're going to be kicked
out of our apartment because wedon't have enough money because
you're saying let'sspontaneously go this weekend to
Aruba.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
It's so true.
It's so true.
It's like and that's why youknow Oprah 100 years ago came
out with the the uh mostimportant aspect of any
relationship is validation.
And it there's some truth inthat.
Until I can see the worldthrough your eyes and appreciate
that which is mutual respect assoon as you lose mutual respect
(25:00):
it's it's uh it's pretty toughto get it back.
But the way you do that is bysaying wow you're pretty static
you're pretty my my term is it'skind of sounds negative but it
really isn't fear based in thesense that I'm aware of the bad
things that could happen if youdo that.
(25:20):
I'm not nearly aware of thosejust personally I I I will do
stuff and and then if there's aconsequence I'll pay my way out
of it or I'll do something likeyes like uh I should have
thought that through yeah yeahand the the approach that is
(25:42):
sometimes taken is well I'lljust apologize for it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Yes.
And and the response is oftenbut the apology doesn't seem to
change anything.
Right.
And so until as you justdescribed until you begin to see
the world through the otherperson's perspective a
perspective by the way thatsomewhere in the unconscious
(26:07):
you're attracted to for somereason.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
That's my point all along is that's why you have to
look at who you're attracted to.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Those traits, you need those traits you just
externalize them in theattraction.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah and the problems will continue until you
begin to internalize the thingto which you're attracted so
that you can be healthy and livein a way that allows the others
around you to live healthier aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Yeah the classic example for me is you can ask
your husband and again genderspecific husband to vacuum the
carpet and they'll vacuum thecarpet but they'll leave the
vacuum in the middle of thefloor for days or they they
won't pick up after themselves.
That's not following through.
(26:54):
So that's another stabilizingtrait is put the put the vacuum
cleaner away.
Oh I didn't even see it sittingthere.
Oh okay I appreciate yousweeping the floor or vacuuming
the floor but could you put itaway?
Yeah that's a classic example ofand women will say he doesn't
see it I go no he doesn't seethat vacuum cleaner at all it's
(27:15):
it doesn't exist.
He did what his he did his jobthere the the these couples are
typically in their firstprobably five or ten years of
marriage where they're havingthose kind of discussions.
But to your point it really isuh and I use the phrase a lot
look who you're attracted tothey have traits that you're
supposed to internalize not justlet them live those out because
(27:39):
then you both become exhaustedyeah yeah and it seems to me
that very often I I guess I'vejust seen it happen too many
times but if you don't take thetime to pay attention to that
which is attractive and begin toum find ways to allow that part
(28:04):
of you to be nourished and togrow when your partner no longer
responds in the way you'rewanting him or her to respond,
you'll find that exact sametrait in somebody else and that
erotic attraction leads you to aplace where you begin to
(28:28):
compromise values, um,commitments because you've not
done the internal work.
And that's why you often repeatthe same pattern with another
person.
I mean I've I've done this longenough to have been through you
know two or three people thathave done that and they end up
at the same place because toyour point they haven't done the
(28:50):
inner work again you're you'reonly as successful in your
relationship as you are with arelationship with yourself as we
said I think a couple sessionsago and that's really the work.
And and the and from myperspective if you can get there
the valuable part of it is youhave a laboratory right in front
of you.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Agree completely with your partner.
You've been attracted to one ofthe individuals that could be
your very best teacher.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Absolutely but sometimes they have gotten in
such a negative trap that nomatter what the the the static
personality says, it's alwaysnegative.
And no matter what the dynamicpersonality does it's always
wrong.
And that's classic 15 to 25 yearmarriage range or a relationship
range where people face thatdynamic and it is really
(29:42):
difficult to get past thosejudgments that they've placed.
And basically it's an internaljudgment where they haven't done
their own work to figure out whyI'm trying to negate this person
instead of embracing them.
Because they can't embrace thatpart of themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
One of the lines that I like that's an internal
message if you can get to thispoint I think it's kind of a
turning point and that is toacknowledge or confess or to say
to your partner, I know that Ihave been oppositional for
years, but I want you to knowthat I'm trying to shift my
(30:21):
posture for you to be myteacher.
So I'm going to start askingquestions and maybe pushing you
a little bit and I want you toknow it's because I want to
learn.
I want to learn how you see theworld I want to know what you
gain from that.
I want to learn from you as myteacher as opposed to this
person that I have been opposingover and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yeah.
And that talk about somethingthat fosters mutual respect when
you take that approach but I'mtelling you what it's so
difficult for them to see thepossibility that this that this
person that can't stand me canteach me something.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Yeah yeah yeah but when you do the work the vision
of life and the spectrum of yourjourney expands in such powerful
and beautiful ways it's worththe effort.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
It does and the interesting thing about it if
you take it seriously you beginto see all kinds of
opportunities to work on thosetraits.
I have a lady right now who iswho's got a very strong static
personality but she also ispretty dynamic at the same time
but her static personality ismuch stronger and she's
wondering why all these peoplein her life are doing things she
(31:36):
can't control.
Wow and I go well you now openthe door to having more
opportunities to grow becauseyou're going to see them
everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Yeah well this seems like an appropriate place to
draw closure to this particularsession just giving a heads up
of where we're going from herenext time we're going to talk a
little bit more about thedifferences between the feminine
energy and the masculine energyand that there is a dynamic and
(32:07):
static side to both of those andthey find their expression in
different ways.
Eventually we hope to get to theplace where we have this great
appreciation for all the variouscombinations of where we might
fall on this spectrum and tryand find some balance for our
own life that makes sense for usindividually.
(32:29):
So we're going to come back tothat next time thanks for um
great discussion Jim we'll gettogether again in a week cool
thanks Dell that's it for thisepisode of Therapy Coaching and
(32:53):
Dreams.
If you're enjoying the podcastwe'd love for you to share it
with someone who mightappreciate it as well and if you
are interested in working witheither of the co hosts you can
do so at their respectivewebsites Dr Shally at
AFCcounselors.com or Dr Kelly atinyourdreamscoach.
Thanks for being here and untilnext time keep growing stay
(33:16):
curious and take good care ofyourself Yeah no that's good
stuff.
Welcome to Therapy Coaching in Dreams.
I'm Dee Kelly, and I'm here withmy co-host, Jim Shaley.
We're a coach and a therapistwho love talking about how inner
work can help you with moreawareness, purpose, and freedom.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome everyone.
Today we're talking about waysto understand our personality.
(00:34):
There are numerous approaches todoing that, and there are
several theories that dominatethe landscape.
One that has been around for awhile in various forms is the
Enneagram, which proposes ninedifferent styles or patterns for
how a person interacts withpeople and circumstances.
A more recent approach isinternal family systems theory,
(00:55):
which proposes multiple parts orpersonalities of an individual,
which influence and manage aperson's interaction with the
world and with one's internallife.
Several theories have roots inYunyan psychology, which is what
we're going to look at today.
This is an approach that wemention often and both of us use
(01:15):
in our respective therapy andcoaching practices.
At its core, this approach usestwo dimensions.
The first is how energy guides aperson, whether that energy is
primarily focused on action ormovement, which you refer to as
a dynamic approach, or if thatenergy is more attentive to
(01:38):
stabilizing the environment orsituation, which is typically
referred to as a static energy.
So, Jim, explain for us.
A person comes to you, they arein a very responsible position
vocationally.
I don't know if they're a CEO, asurgeon, or whatever the role is
that they might have, but theyfind that they are often in
(01:59):
conflict and they've come to youfor help.
What would be the differencebetween a dynamic personality
style and a static personalitystyle in regard to conflict or
how somebody handles conflict?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
A great question.
Initially, I would almostimmediately diagnose a CEO that
comes to me for therapy as adynamic personality.
And the advantage of a dynamicpersonality is they come in
pretty purposeful.
They've had a conflict at work,they've had something at home
happen, something that kind ofmotivated them to say, okay, I
(02:35):
need to do something about this.
That dynamic approach, typicallythey'll take suggestions,
they'll take advice, and theywill usually implement.
A static personality will comeinto therapy, and oftentimes
they'll not understand what hashappened or what the problem is
(02:55):
because they are so static intheir approach to life, which
means basically that theystabilize things.
They just bring things intotheir lives and they kind of
bring order to them and theydon't like a lot of change.
All of that affects uh how theyapproach their issues.
(03:15):
And whereas a dynamicpersonality will come in and
say, okay, what do I need to dohere?
Now, the downside of a dynamicpersonality would be that they
go in full wholeheartedly withthe suggestions you give them,
and so they need to be tempereda little bit.
Whereas a static personalitywill come in and try to discuss
(03:37):
how many different ways we coulddo something before they
actually do something.
So again, it sounds like one'spositive, one's negative.
They're just really differentexpressions, like you described,
of how we handle our lives.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
There is a phrase in business that is sometimes used
called the paralysis ofanalysis.
Right.
I'm assuming that that's in someways what you're describing with
a more static or stabilizingenergy is that they want to
analyze and then analyze againto make sure that they're not
missing anything before theymove forward.
(04:11):
Is that fair?
Yeah.
unknown (04:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:13):
Yeah.
So um then and again, I know youdeal with what's presented to
you, but what would cause aperson who has a very dynamic
energy to enter into conflict?
And tied with that, are theysometimes the last one to know
that there's conflict as theymove forward?
(04:36):
And what kind of conflict orways by which a person who is
more static in their energymight they enter into conflict
in the workforce or in the home?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
One of the challenges for the dynamic
personality type, unfortunately,oftentimes they'll come into
therapy because they aredynamic.
In other words, to use theextreme example, they've had an
affair where they're unhappysomewhere in their life, but
they can't put a finger on it.
They meet someone at the wrongtime and they engage in an
(05:12):
affair.
So typically that brings theminto therapy because of the very
dynamic personality that theyhave.
And so that's the downside ofthe dynamic personality.
They bring, they can bringsituations that have to be dealt
with because they keep moving.
On the other hand, the staticpersonality oftentimes will
(05:34):
cause therapy to happen becausethey have not moved much, they
haven't grown much, they haven'tunderstood uh some of the
nuances of relationship, andthey'll be frustrated because my
typically my husband alwayswants to do this.
I have no interest in doingthat.
So it starts to bring it startsto cause tension in the
(05:55):
relationship from thatperspective.
But yeah, what causes a staticpersonality to go into therapy
typically is unhappiness.
Whereas a dynamic personalitywill come into therapy because
they've done they've screwedsomething up, if I had to put it
pretty casually.
SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
And they're looking for somebody to help them fix it
quickly and move forward.
SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Right.
Yeah.
In fact, dynamic personalitywill oftentimes be frustrated
with the process, especially ifit's a couple's counseling,
where uh they've they've messedup and they'll not want to talk
about it anymore.
They just want to keep movingforward.
The static personality will wantto talk about it all the time
(06:37):
and will bring it up over andover again.
The one challenge I have for adynamic personality is to use
that style by on purpose,occasionally, without any
prompting, bring up what theydid that causes the injury in
the relationship.
And for a dynamic personality,that's counterintuitive.
Why would I do that?
It's like that's gonna cause anargument.
(07:00):
And the typically the otherpartner will almost always say,
it addresses my hurt andaddresses her static her,
typically it's the woman, butoftentimes it's the man too.
It addresses that static partthat wants to know that you know
it affected me and hurt me.
And that's that's theinteresting part as far as the
(07:23):
static personality willoftentimes hold on to something
because the dynamic personalitywon't acknowledge it enough.
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Wow.
Um, so let me you've alreadystarted to hint at this, but let
me ask you to carry it a littlebit further.
We often talk about um theimportance of being uh able to
access different parts of who weare.
(07:52):
So if a person who has a verystrong dynamic energy, which can
be incredibly charismatic andattractive because they uh
they're the energy that pushedthe cart pushes the cart
forward, that people kind ofjoin in and hang on to that.
But when there is too much ofthat in a person's life, what
(08:17):
will they miss out on if theyare not aware of another part of
themselves that would benefitfrom a more balanced approach?
SPEAKER_00 (08:27):
Well, the the the the the phrase really is uh stop
and smell the roses.
Dynamic personalities, they theymay cut the rose uh off and then
send it to somebody as a tokenof something, but they won't
stop and necessarily smell therose.
Uh yeah, I mean it's it's the Ihave a client right now that uh
(08:54):
they want to go on vacation andjust sit at the beach.
The man never sits still.
That's like torture.
And so I'm trying to work out anegotiation to where one
vacation uh or a few days of avacation, they'll sit and just
(09:14):
uh you know stare at the stareat the ocean or whatever,
whatever he's gonna do.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Let me guess what type you are in this.
SPEAKER_00 (09:26):
Uh yeah.
So that's always fascinating tome because uh you have to get in
touch with the other side ofyourself.
And so I've I asked thatgentleman, it was the man that
that that wants to sightseebasically.
And he said, Why would I whywould I do that?
I said, Well, because in yoursilence and just reflecting on
(09:49):
things, what would you thinkabout?
And again, that's where thedynamic personality goes, well,
I'd probably come up with uh anew business plan or some way to
improve something here orsomething there.
I said, Yeah, you want to keepmoving even in your brain.
I said, so you could do that.
You could read a book, you coulddo things like that that feel
how that have movement to them.
Uh, but typically uh I said, youthe other person will go along
(10:13):
with you when you do all thesefun things, but they'll be
exhausted at the end of the dayand you'll be surprised, like,
that was great, wasn't it?
And the static personality willoften goes, uh yeah, that was
that was really good.
You know, can we can we just sittomorrow?
SPEAKER_01 (10:31):
Okay, so then help me with this, Jim, because uh
one of the things that you don'twant is for somebody to lose
that enjoyment of life, thesatisfaction that comes with
living into that part of theirjourney.
It sounds like you are askingsomebody to actually put that on
hold as opposed to invitingthem, and this is, I guess, just
(10:55):
from my perspective, butinviting them into a space that
will actually expand theirappreciation for a different way
to see the world, a differentperspective.
So help me to understand what isthe upside for somebody who has
a strong dynamic energy to tapinto that part as opposed to
(11:16):
just a better relationship.
Okay, I'm doing this to pleasemy partner, or I'm doing this to
please my coworker, but is thereany satisfaction that comes from
that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Well, the uh the the uh thing I recommend for really
strong dynamic personalities.
Uh I had a guy recently thatcame in and he's really dynamic.
He's got he's all over the worlddoing all these things, and and
uh I was exhausted listening tohim, but he was always moving.
He said, So what you'redescribing is if I were to slow
(11:47):
down, how would I do that?
And I said, Do you have a deck?
He goes, Well, yeah.
I said, okay, on your deck, ifyou sit out on your deck, I
said, is there are there treesaround?
And he said, Yes, there aretrees.
I said, so then you startidentifying with that who that
what that tree is.
You try you start looking at theanimals, the birds that might be
flying.
I said, you start focusing onthe nature around you, so you
(12:09):
get in touch with a differentaspect of yourself.
Even if it is a little bitdynamic of identifying things,
it still gets you in the moment.
And I think for the dynamicpersonality, the moment is to
manipulate, not to be in.
So to your to your point, isthere value in that?
I absolutely think there is,because almost always those
(12:31):
people are in relationship witha static personality.
And I will always say it's lookat the attraction.
The attraction tells you whatpart of you you may need to
develop.
And for a static personality,they're typically in a
relationship with a dynamicpersonality.
So what's that balance looklike?
(12:53):
That's real helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
I I think that I have found that those who have a
very, very strong dynamic sideto their journey and follow that
dynamic energy, that they oftenare reluctant to do much inner
work because they find suchgreat success in the outer
(13:17):
expression of the dynamicenergy.
So at some point in time, thereis a recognition of, yeah, I see
all of these things externally,but trying to draw somebody into
seeing the color of life in adifferent way, the inward
journey and what it might bring.
(13:37):
Um, for example, being attractedto somebody who's very musical.
Maybe they're not dynamic inother ways, but that musical or
artistic side or the joy thatcomes with nurturing and
compassionate work.
But more particularly, inwardlyfocusing is what I think you
were trying to get to when yousay sit on the deck, get in
(13:59):
touch with nature, but get intouch with what nature does to
that which is inside of you, andstart feeling the feelings of
success or disappointment, thefeelings of joy or the feelings
of frustration and what thattells you about yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:17):
Yeah, the feeling level does slow us down.
And that's why I said earlierthat fortunately or
unfortunately, it works out.
Usually the dynamic personalitycauses some type of trauma.
That trauma then gets theirattention, and then they begin
to investigate their feelinglevel.
(14:37):
And sometimes they just want asymptom relief.
So just help me feel better.
So if there's a break in brokenrelationship, oftentimes they'll
jump right into anotherrelationship and they don't take
advantage of what I think uh theuniverse is trying to tell them,
which is to slow down andexamine your inner life.
Uh fortunately, I've had severalmen that have been able they've
(15:00):
caused great pain, but they'vealso been able to really take a
look internally, but that stillis difficult for them because
they want an answer.
And yet the answer within is tounderstand themselves better and
how they interact and just whatthe feelings are trying to tell
them.
And that's that's reallychallenging sometimes for but if
(15:21):
they get a glimpse of it, theyreally can grow it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
I like that.
Yeah, I think that when there isa reward or a um some sense of
gratification when they have anew idea or a new way of looking
at themselves or the world, thatthat becomes enticing to keep uh
going to that place again andagain.
(15:47):
Let's take the other posture ofthat when there's too much of
the static energy, becausestatic energy um or stabilizing
energy is in many ways whatmakes the world function in a
reasonable way.
Right.
Or at least helping to make itfunction for more people, more
(16:08):
circumstances, um, as those whohave that stabilizing energy
organize the world and try andcreate systems for it.
So if there's too much of that,what is that person missing out
on that you hope to give them aglimpse of what it might look
like if they weren't sodominated by a stabilizing or
static energy?
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
They're caught up in being super responsible.
And so they err on the side ofresponsibility being the most
important thing.
Why would you even think ofriding a motorcycle?
You have three kids.
That's a great example.
That's the that's the extreme.
Uh because that typically thatthey'll be married to a static
(16:55):
personality who will basicallysay, Why would you even think to
do that?
Whereas if you can get a staticpersonality on the back of a
motorcycle once, they'll loveit, but that doesn't mean
they'll go jump on a motorcycleagain.
They enjoyed the experience, butthey had to be talked into it.
So I think that's where thestrength is order and
predictability and uh what achild needs until age five or
(17:18):
six, it's absolutely crucial.
The downside is it becomes sorigid that you can't move beyond
that.
And, you know, it's like inparenting, the mother may do
great until age three or four.
The father then kicks in andbegins to expand the risk taking
oftentimes, or I would say inour framework, the masculine,
(17:39):
because sometimes women will dothe same thing and some men are
more passive in that sense.
Uh but yeah, the the staticpersonality, super responsible,
to the extreme they can becomepretty judgmental and ask the
question, why would you do that?
Uh, you know, my mother wasfamous for wanting to know why I
would build way back in thewoods the house that I have in
(18:01):
the woods, because why would youdo that?
Well, because that's where Iwant it.
But it made no sense.
She said, well, people can'teven see the house.
But you build it out by the pondanyway.
Just an interesting approach tohow people's, you know, their
filters drive them.
And so it makes perfect sense todo it the way it's supposed to
(18:22):
be done.
Because again, the staticpersonality has a strong should
voice.
Life should be a certain way.
And there's truth to that.
Knowing when to lighten up andlet it become broader is the
same way a dynamic personalityneeds to use the value of the
static to know when to be moreresponsible and not act out
(18:44):
impulsively with some thingsthat that you may want to do.
And again, the plastic thing isshould I should I ride a
motorcycle?
Should I skydive?
Should I do any of these riskythings if I uh have a family?
Now, the integrated self uh willalmost always balance that out
naturally.
(19:05):
If there's a typically it's theI don't want to sound too uh too
gender specific, but if there'sa woman who's static who trusts
her husband with the kids, theywill let them do risky
behaviors.
And that's such life-giving,especially for I would say the
masculine or the boys, forhaving both both parents embrace
(19:27):
the risk taking.
And in my mind, that's that'sthe balance because I can only
trust that if I'm the feminineor if I'm the stabilizer, if the
dynamic is responsible to thepoint that makes sense.
So we're not going to go out andride a dirt bike with no helmet
or no protection or no padding.
That's the compromise.
(19:47):
That's that's the dance.
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
And that whole notion of um healthy or balanced
applies to all of the things wetalk about, like is it a healthy
dynamic energy?
Is it a healthy stabilizing orstatic energy?
Is it a healthy masculineenergy?
Is it a healthy feminine energythat I think we have within us
(20:15):
probably driven oftenunconsciously, but a sense when
something doesn't seem balanced,when it seems dangerous, when it
seems overly restrictive orwhatever the case might be.
And we react in relationship tothat, often reacting out of the
unconscious.
But if we bring those thoughtsfurther to the surface, we'll be
able to articulate why it seemsunsafe or why we have the
(20:37):
concern.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
Right.
So would would you in your dreamwork, how would how would it be
expressed in a dream that thatthat dance of would it would a
dream expose where one islacking or overcompensating?
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
It comes out in a variety of ways.
It can it can sometimes come outin a plot line where you have
certain things that happenwithin a dream that make you
incredibly uncomfortable, orthings in a dream that you're
automatically attracted to.
And sometimes those plot linescan give you an indicator of
where you fall on this spectrum.
(21:17):
Um, it also comes out in the umthe gender mix of the dream.
Uh, there are times whensomebody will come and every
character in the dream will be amasculine image.
And so the question then is whatis that masculine side trying to
(21:37):
draw you to?
How what is the story behind acomplete absence of any feminine
voice in this dream?
And what's going on in your liferight now that might create that
kind of an imagery that got yourattention?
Um, so yeah, it comes out in avariety of ways, but often the
plot line or the action that'staking place will sometimes
(22:00):
describe a um dynamic versusstatic energy in what's
happening.
I had a couple one time thatcame in, and in this particular
situation, the male wasdescribed by both of them as
being the one who wasspontaneous, wanted to do things
(22:22):
in the stir in the in themoment, and just with very
little notice to say, hey, let'sdo this for the weekend, or
let's uh do this particularthing.
And in again, in this particularcase, the spouse, the wife, was
the one who was incrediblyresponsible, took care of the
(22:46):
family budget, was very aware ofthe obligations and commitments
they have.
And they followed a very typicalpattern.
And that is that the person whowas spontaneous, wanting to
model for their spouse how greatthat is, would propose even more
spontaneous things and wastrying to live and show them how
(23:07):
wonderful that is.
And the woman in this case, themore static energy, was forced
to move to an even morepolarized position of who's
going to take responsibility forall of these things, these
bills?
And they just distancedthemselves more and more because
they thought that it would modelwell for their partner.
(23:30):
I um looked at the um woman andI said to her, can I just ask,
what would it feel like to youif you knew that your partner
was being responsible and youhad the opportunity for one of
these occasions to be thespontaneous ones.
(23:51):
And her response was oh mygoodness, it would be the
greatest day in my life to beable to be the one who initiated
spontaneity, but how can I?
Because he's not takingresponsibility for anything.
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
And that's a whole different conversation because
what miss is missing is thevalidation piece.
Yes.
They can't hear me at all unlessI validate their view and how
important it is to them.
So you're right they they theythey go the polar opposites well
wait a minute let me let me showyou how much fun this is nope
I'm going to show you how you'regoing to die if you do that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Or I'm going to show you how we're going to be kicked
out of our apartment because wedon't have enough money because
you're saying let'sspontaneously go this weekend to
Aruba.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
It's so true.
It's so true.
It's like and that's why youknow Oprah 100 years ago came
out with the the uh mostimportant aspect of any
relationship is validation.
And it there's some truth inthat.
Until I can see the worldthrough your eyes and appreciate
that which is mutual respect assoon as you lose mutual respect
(25:00):
it's it's uh it's pretty toughto get it back.
But the way you do that is bysaying wow you're pretty static
you're pretty my my term is it'skind of sounds negative but it
really isn't fear based in thesense that I'm aware of the bad
things that could happen if youdo that.
(25:20):
I'm not nearly aware of thosejust personally I I I will do
stuff and and then if there's aconsequence I'll pay my way out
of it or I'll do something likeyes like uh I should have
thought that through yeah yeahand the the approach that is
(25:42):
sometimes taken is well I'lljust apologize for it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Yes.
And and the response is oftenbut the apology doesn't seem to
change anything.
Right.
And so until as you justdescribed until you begin to see
the world through the otherperson's perspective a
perspective by the way thatsomewhere in the unconscious
(26:07):
you're attracted to for somereason.
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
That's my point all along is that's why you have to
look at who you're attracted to.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Those traits, you need those traits you just
externalize them in theattraction.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Yeah and the problems will continue until you
begin to internalize the thingto which you're attracted so
that you can be healthy and livein a way that allows the others
around you to live healthier aswell.
SPEAKER_00 (26:34):
Yeah the classic example for me is you can ask
your husband and again genderspecific husband to vacuum the
carpet and they'll vacuum thecarpet but they'll leave the
vacuum in the middle of thefloor for days or they they
won't pick up after themselves.
That's not following through.
(26:54):
So that's another stabilizingtrait is put the put the vacuum
cleaner away.
Oh I didn't even see it sittingthere.
Oh okay I appreciate yousweeping the floor or vacuuming
the floor but could you put itaway?
Yeah that's a classic example ofand women will say he doesn't
see it I go no he doesn't seethat vacuum cleaner at all it's
(27:15):
it doesn't exist.
He did what his he did his jobthere the the these couples are
typically in their firstprobably five or ten years of
marriage where they're havingthose kind of discussions.
But to your point it really isuh and I use the phrase a lot
look who you're attracted tothey have traits that you're
supposed to internalize not justlet them live those out because
(27:39):
then you both become exhaustedyeah yeah and it seems to me
that very often I I guess I'vejust seen it happen too many
times but if you don't take thetime to pay attention to that
which is attractive and begin toum find ways to allow that part
(28:04):
of you to be nourished and togrow when your partner no longer
responds in the way you'rewanting him or her to respond,
you'll find that exact sametrait in somebody else and that
erotic attraction leads you to aplace where you begin to
(28:28):
compromise values, um,commitments because you've not
done the internal work.
And that's why you often repeatthe same pattern with another
person.
I mean I've I've done this longenough to have been through you
know two or three people thathave done that and they end up
at the same place because toyour point they haven't done the
(28:50):
inner work again you're you'reonly as successful in your
relationship as you are with arelationship with yourself as we
said I think a couple sessionsago and that's really the work.
And and the and from myperspective if you can get there
the valuable part of it is youhave a laboratory right in front
of you.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
Agree completely with your partner.
You've been attracted to one ofthe individuals that could be
your very best teacher.
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
Absolutely but sometimes they have gotten in
such a negative trap that nomatter what the the the static
personality says, it's alwaysnegative.
And no matter what the dynamicpersonality does it's always
wrong.
And that's classic 15 to 25 yearmarriage range or a relationship
range where people face thatdynamic and it is really
(29:42):
difficult to get past thosejudgments that they've placed.
And basically it's an internaljudgment where they haven't done
their own work to figure out whyI'm trying to negate this person
instead of embracing them.
Because they can't embrace thatpart of themselves.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
One of the lines that I like that's an internal
message if you can get to thispoint I think it's kind of a
turning point and that is toacknowledge or confess or to say
to your partner, I know that Ihave been oppositional for
years, but I want you to knowthat I'm trying to shift my
(30:21):
posture for you to be myteacher.
So I'm going to start askingquestions and maybe pushing you
a little bit and I want you toknow it's because I want to
learn.
I want to learn how you see theworld I want to know what you
gain from that.
I want to learn from you as myteacher as opposed to this
person that I have been opposingover and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
Yeah.
And that talk about somethingthat fosters mutual respect when
you take that approach but I'mtelling you what it's so
difficult for them to see thepossibility that this that this
person that can't stand me canteach me something.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Yeah yeah yeah but when you do the work the vision
of life and the spectrum of yourjourney expands in such powerful
and beautiful ways it's worththe effort.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
It does and the interesting thing about it if
you take it seriously you beginto see all kinds of
opportunities to work on thosetraits.
I have a lady right now who iswho's got a very strong static
personality but she also ispretty dynamic at the same time
but her static personality ismuch stronger and she's
wondering why all these peoplein her life are doing things she
(31:36):
can't control.
Wow and I go well you now openthe door to having more
opportunities to grow becauseyou're going to see them
everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Yeah well this seems like an appropriate place to
draw closure to this particularsession just giving a heads up
of where we're going from herenext time we're going to talk a
little bit more about thedifferences between the feminine
energy and the masculine energyand that there is a dynamic and
(32:07):
static side to both of those andthey find their expression in
different ways.
Eventually we hope to get to theplace where we have this great
appreciation for all the variouscombinations of where we might
fall on this spectrum and tryand find some balance for our
own life that makes sense for usindividually.
(32:29):
So we're going to come back tothat next time thanks for um
great discussion Jim we'll gettogether again in a week cool
thanks Dell that's it for thisepisode of Therapy Coaching and
(32:53):
Dreams.
If you're enjoying the podcastwe'd love for you to share it
with someone who mightappreciate it as well and if you
are interested in working witheither of the co hosts you can
do so at their respectivewebsites Dr Shally at
AFCcounselors.com or Dr Kelly atinyourdreamscoach.
Thanks for being here and untilnext time keep growing stay
(33:16):
curious and take good care ofyourself Yeah no that's good
stuff.
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