October 29, 2025 • 26 mins
The cohosts present the Stabilizer personality style, referred to as a static-masculine energy. Everyone has this within them. For some it is dormant and rarely accessed, and for others it is their dominant style. This style is discussed, both in its healthy form and in it dysfunctional form. It is also compared to the other three styles (Initiator, Transformer and Responder). Here are some of the key issues discussed.
1. What is your natural style and is it still working for you?
2. The healthy journey usually takes us to a balance between the different styles, and leads to the ability to draw on different energies or styles when the situation calls for them.
3. The “masculine” moniker does not refer to males. The Initiating energy can be dominant in any gender. The “static” moniker simply means that there is a tendency to organize and put systems in place rather than to be constantly innovating and moving toward action and accomplishment (the dynamic energy).
4. The dysfunctional Initiator can be dictatorial, and often misses out on other valuable viewpoints.
5. Do you want to be right or do you want to be in relationship? This is the question the masculine energy should often ask of one’s self.
6. You are often more married to the trait that protects you from being hurt than you are to the person with whom you are in relationship.
7. When stress levels go up, we retreat to those patterns that are most familiar, even if they are dysfunctional.
8. Where do your protective mechanisms get formed? Usually in your family of origin.
You can connect with the cohosts through their respective websites:
AFCCounselors.com (Dr. Shalley) / https://www.inyourdreams.coach/contact (Dr. Kelley)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Welcome to Therapy Coaching and Dreams.
I'm D.
Kelly, and I'm here with myco-host, Jim Shaley.
We're a coach and a therapistwho love talking about how inner
work can help you with moreawareness, purpose, and freedom.
Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Like I would see, I see you as being a natural
nurturer.
And yet you're and yet you tellme you're not, that you play a
you step up because of theresponsibility of that.
And you see me as a dynamic, andI don't see that.
It's just interesting from ourYeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
It is.
So, and that leads to, I think,what's really important to me in
a discussion about personalitystyles and um kind of when we
create categories, and somepeople will see a category or a
description of a category, andit doesn't make sense.
And I always think that it'simportant, regardless of what
(01:06):
system you're looking at,whether it's internal family
systems in all of theircategories, or Yun Yan side in
their categories, or strengthfinders in their categories, on
and on, that you have to go inand create language that fits
for you.
Now, there are some generalitiesthat we can state, and you've
said that several times, thatgenerally speaking, and I love
(01:27):
that phrase because I think itgives someone an ability to say,
Yeah, I can see how you wouldsay that, but why I think this
is true for me, and then allowsomebody to explore that over
time and figure out what itmeans.
When you talk about living outof an initiating place where you
(01:48):
initiating just because it's alittle more impulsive, it's a
little more instinctual, I guessis the phrase you used.
Do you think living out of theinstinct is more of the feminine
dynamic side, in tune with thatintuition?
And here's my intuition, so Ijust go do it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Well, I think that that that's the larger
discussion, is when we talkabout the four quadrants that we
that we discuss in our in myframework, it's like there's a
natural energy that we have.
So some are natural responders,some are are natural initiators,
some are natural transformers.
There's a natural style therethat we don't see in terms of
(02:31):
masculine or feminine, it's justwho I am.
And I think that's the challengeis okay, is that still
effective?
Is it still working in my life?
And then as I'm I'm more open towho I who I might be in a
relationship with and theirdynamic, and then I'm I'm
playing off of them.
So now I have a clearer view ofmy energy.
(02:53):
Uh, when we're temptedtemporally to just as simply go,
well, that's kind of the way Iam.
So I'm I'm this and you're that,and let's just play that out.
I think one of the things wetalked about in previous
sessions is where do I need tobe?
If we see that we all have haveall of those in us somewhere,
where do I need to be at anygiven moment?
So I think from my perspective,uh while the impulsive or the
(03:19):
dynamic side of me makes senseto do certain things, I would
say that I I lack the probablythis uh I don't know.
Now I'm I'm stuck in my ownthinking right now in that
sense, because we're trying tochallenge people to move to a
(03:40):
more integrated self, right?
Yeah.
So where would you see me?
I know we're using ourselves asa therapy kind of thing here,
but where would you see my lack?
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Well, I think one of the things that is attractive
about you is that you are awareof the variety of styles.
And I think one of the thingsthat you do very well is when
you know there is an importanceto pull on a different energy.
I just think you are balancedenough to begin to draw on that.
(04:15):
I think there are some times inyour life where you might
shortchange your outcomebecause, for example, it's not
quite as easy for you to pull onthe dynamic masculine and
initiate.
It comes in spurts.
Um, and yet I do think that youinitiate marvelously when it has
(04:38):
captivated your imagination.
You have enough charisma thatyou draw others into that vision
and bring some people along forthat journey.
And often others kind of ride onthe coattails of that, which to
me is an example of the dynamicmasculine, where others ride the
wake of the things that youcreate.
(04:58):
And so I think you do thatoften.
Um, but I don't think that thatis your um like go-to place of
comfort.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Yeah.
Uh yeah, to move back to, Ithink one of the things that you
mentioned talking about todaywas more of the masculine.
Which one do you we talk about?
The masculine stabilizer?
Yeah, the stabilizer.
Yeah.
Initiating the how how does thatplay out?
The masculine stabilizer.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
How does that play out in regard to initiation?
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Uh yeah, and yeah, because the we when we talk in
terms of dynamic, typically it'sinitiating energy, but you
combine that with uh a morestatic personality type, that's
I think where it becomes moredictatorial.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
If I'm hearing the question correctly, you're
asking how does somebody who'sin that stabilizer uh the
masculine the masculine static.
Masculine static, how do theyinitiate, how do they move
forward on some things?
And my answer to that is thatthe typical way is that they
(06:09):
address the problem throughorganization.
They address the problem bypulling together a system that
will take care of it and createa way by which everyone
hopefully will see, oh, this isequitable.
This will work for everyone.
It's kind of a strategicplanning sort of thing versus
(06:31):
the dynamic energy that sees theproblem and and moves
immediately.
It is a response to the problemthat says, well, let's just take
action.
Let's step into this.
And if we break a few things, wecan pick it up after the fact.
Or if it doesn't work, we'regoing to try several other
(06:51):
things.
It's kind of the current umbusiness climate.
Not, it's not brand new, it'sbeen going on for a little
while, but fail fast is kind ofthat masculine dynamic uh side.
And I don't think that thestabilizer is real comfortable
with that because of the peopleyou leave in the wake that get
(07:12):
injured, or the people that arehurt by that, or the people that
get fired or quit or fall away,and you leave some things in
your wake that are problematic.
So the approach of thestabilizer is hold on a second,
let's plan this out before welaunch.
Let's make sure we've played outthe scenarios of where this
(07:34):
might go.
But there is a for those wholove the problem solving side,
there is a very intentionalpurpose of we are moving ahead,
we're going to set a timetableuh to bring this to pass.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
Another way of looking at it would be the map,
the mask gun static would belike a police department or a
fire department.
Because they have to bring orderto things and and and yet they
have to have a structure inplace, and then they actually
respond to things as they needto, but it does take that mask
gun static to hold steady untiluntil they're needed.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Oh, yeah, I think that's fair.
I would probably go more withthe metaphor of the police
department than the firedepartment, because I think the
police department, um, at leastin theory, are guided by the
rules and the regulations ofsociety or a community and are
trying to implement those.
The fire department jumps intoaction, runs down a fire pole,
(08:33):
and starts spraying waterwherever it goes, doesn't matter
what the damage is, they justspray.
That's right.
Well, that's that's kind of likea lot of people.
A lot of people do not.
I know quite a few.
And there are others who thencome in behind after the fire
(08:55):
department is long gone and haveto shovel the junk and clean up
the mess and rebuild theproject.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Absolutely.
And those would be theinitiators and the transformers.
They see a possibility.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
And at that point, the firefighter chief will be on
the news saying wonderful thingsand being interviewed as the
hero.
And then all through the night,there is somebody that's back
there trying to push the waterout of the living room.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
So then I can then somebody comes along and says,
Okay, we gotta figure out wherethey're starting.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
So so let's go back to Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
Go ahead.
You go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
The negative the negative sideof that would be the the
masculine static would bedictatorial.
Because they didn't they demandthat would be the negative
aspect.
They get control of somethingand then they don't let people
move beyond that, and they theythey're oppressive.
(09:57):
That would be the negative sideof it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
I agree with that 100%.
That is the um rigidness, thedysfunctional um masculine
static or stabilizer, is thatthey actually slow everything
down in many ways because thereis no other way to look at it.
(10:21):
So, one of the questions that Ihad for you that I think this
speaks of is so, what does thistype of person lose in
relationship if they're notaware of the imbalance that they
might have in their life?
And I think there are a lot ofthings, but one of them
certainly is that you lose arelationship because you are
(10:44):
certain you're right.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
I mean, it's the old it's the old adage, do you want
to be right or have arelationship?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
And I think that that should be said every day in
this in this person's life.
If this is where you live, youhave to you have to wake up in
the morning and say, okay, todayit's my choice.
Do I want to be right or do Iwant to be in relationship?
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
I think it'd be a good mantra for everyone,
probably, but it's specificallyfor those people that prefer to
be right all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Yeah.
unknown (11:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
And again, that's the that's the subtlety of it.
Uh, a lot of times that trait isso strong that they they don't
see it as being right or wrong.
They just think that it's theway it is.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
Well, I'll give you another example from my
perspective of a person who isthis stabilizer, the masculine
static side, is that whensomebody disagrees with you, the
internal response is, uh, I justdidn't explain it well enough
because it's so obvious.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the term that everybody
uses now, which is mansplaining.
I'll just keep talking to youand explaining it to you, and
finally you'll get it and you'llagree with me, and we'll all be
happy.
It'll be great.
Yeah, because this is reallyit's the opposite of the
validation piece that I try toteach men specifically a lot,
which is nothing is heard untilyou say, Oh, I can understand
(12:15):
how you feel that way, asopposed to um let me explain it
a different way.
I think you'll I think you'llget it this time.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Or or the line that would be the masculine, that
would be the masculine static.
Yeah, you keep repeating it.
Yeah, the other line thatdoesn't help a whole lot is tell
me what you don't understandabout this.
That line doesn't help mucheither.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Because basically you just call the person a kind
of a moron.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Well, why would you feel like a moron?
I'm just trying to explain thisto you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
You know, that's a great, that's a great question.
Uh, I probably naturally feellike one, and you helped me feel
more like one.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
So well, now that we've settled that, it should be
obvious that we go my direction.
Oh, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
So that's where a lot that's where a lot of people
live, though.
It really is.
SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So bridge this a little bit forus.
Um, when somebody lives fromthis place in an out-of-balanced
way, what are they missing outon life?
Because there are a lot ofpieces of life that's that seem
to me to be dependent upon um anopenness to other perspectives.
(13:38):
And in other ways, uh differentworldviews, different ways to
see problems.
And if you are strong, strong,strong stabilizer, just share a
couple ways in which those otherparts of yourself that are
finding no expression, what doyou miss out on on life?
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
I I think uh first of all, you you have to admit or
acknowledge you're missing outof something.
Great point.
I mean, the the strong sense ofthe need to be right is so uh
enticing and and uh it's justI'm just right.
(14:19):
And so to get someone toacknowledge their other views uh
that are as valid, that's that'sa big hurdle for some
personality styles.
And I would say the strongmasculine um initiator, that
would be the hardest to get thatbecause they just keep moving
forward.
So I think that's you have tostart by pointing it out, and so
(14:39):
there has to be somethingupsetting in their life, some
kind of conflict that gets themto see that.
And I think even the phrase yousaid a few minutes ago about
every morning get up and say, Doyou want to be right to have a
relationship?
If you're married to someonethat has that trait, that's not
a bad intervention if they havea if they're if their likability
is still there.
You could tease, you could, youcould tease that a little bit
(15:02):
and try to push people to theirblind spots.
Yeah, like it would be theopposite of that if you had a
strong nurturing personalitythat did too much and they're
married to a person who seesthat they give away too much,
how do you get their attentionand get them to see that that
trait probably uh needs to bebalanced?
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
I mean, yeah, because the the response there
often is, and correct me if youthink I'm wrong, but the
response for that nurture sidethat we sometimes refer to as
the feminine static is thatthat's where they find meaning
is caring for others.
That's where they find theiridentity.
And it's difficult to showsomebody that there is more to
(15:48):
who they are if they begin topay attention to their own
needs.
Yeah, it's like that masculineinitiating, they get value from
being right.
Yeah.
Here is here's my thought on thenurturer, that feminine one who
is responding and caring andhelping others in so many
different ways.
(16:08):
That the other three personalitystyles, when they are
dysfunctional, the person who isthat responder will often just
give in or give up.
They will separate themselvesfrom their own needs, they will
shrug and go quiet, or they willacquiesce and you miss out on
(16:33):
their voice.
So one of the things thathappens, and I'll just use the
stabilizer in this case, if youare drilling down trying to show
that you are right, and theperson with whom you're in a
relationship, whether it's acoworker, a spouse, or a child
or a parent, and you push andpush, and the person acquiesces,
in that moment, what you loseout on is another worldview,
(16:56):
another perspective, another wayof seeing problems.
Um, you certainly miss out onsuch things as intuition and a
kind of sixth sense about thingsbecause you tend to be driven by
the logic, what the senses takein and how you can logically
process that.
(17:17):
And it's a tragic loss, I think,of seeing a world that's beyond
that, a world that's intuitive.
And it's a world that you don'trealize it's black and white
until you begin to see thecolors that other people see.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
Yeah.
It's like it's like people thattravel the world.
They get introduced to differentcultures and it it opens up
their world to a whole differentway of looking at it.
I mean, it goes back a littlebit what we talked about, I
think, in the first our first uhtime together, looking back to
move ahead.
Another way to examine that isto get people to view how their
family of origin handleemotions, and then it intrigues
(17:59):
them to have some curiosityabout the larger, their larger
personality, how they interactwith others, all those things.
I mean, you don't know you needsome insight until you need some
insight.
And I think that's yeah, that'salways the challenge is how do
you get to a place where Ireally am open to a different
(18:21):
way of viewing things.
And oftentimes it comes becauseof a marriage or a relationship
or some work relationship that'sfrustrating.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Why would I correct something if it's working for
me?
Yeah, absolutely.
And so when people when peopleshow up in your office, there's
something that has prompted thatthat is no longer working.
And that's the wonderful momentof possible shift or change.
Yeah.
(18:50):
And to be a good steward ofthose moments, both if it's your
own, but also if somebody comesto you and to realize, oh, this
is this is an important moment.
SPEAKER_01 (19:01):
Yeah, that's why I will say uh any trauma, job
loss, whatever that is, it's adoorway through better
understanding of self.
It's it's the only reframe thatI think can help people relax a
little bit and realize, okay,there's there can be a benefit
to this, even though it's ahorrible thing to go through or
it's traumatic.
(19:22):
Uh, how do I respond to that?
And I think that's where itopens us up to examine ourselves
in a different way.
And it's it's always iffy howpeople are going to respond to
that.
Because there's a fine linebetween validating them and
understanding where they'recoming from, and then at some
point turning it around to themand saying, What role did you
(19:43):
play in this?
I mean, from my perspective, ashard as it is, if you come in
and say your spouse has left youor your partner has left you,
and you don't understand it,you're devastated, eventually uh
my style would be, what part didyou play in it?
Well, you don't you don't saythat the first sentence because
(20:04):
typically that's when you slamthe door in their face.
You you kind of build arelationship, but I think you do
a disservice to the client ifyou don't ask that question at
some point.
I mean, there are rare exampleswhere it's it perhaps is
one-sided, but most of the timethere is a dynamic that's
happening.
And I think our frame, ourframework we're talking about,
(20:26):
can certainly go a long way inhelping you bring peace to
yourself about it.
Knowing where you need to be ifsomeone leaves you, you know,
how what do I need to access?
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Yeah, I so agree with that, Jim.
I realize that anywhere in theprocess of proposing what this
person might have had to do withit, I'll personalize it.
What did I have to do with theconflict or the problem that
(20:58):
we're facing?
There is at some level a it'salmost like a visceral response
where you feel defensemechanisms go up.
You know, I'm being challenged,I'm being critiqued, and I'm
gonna have to defend myself.
I'm gonna have to, once again,I'm the person that's getting
(21:19):
picked on, getting beat on.
And so easing into that questionto try and keep defenses low
enough so that I could actuallyhear the question and not just
hear my defenses is veryimportant.
It's also one of the reasons whyI love working with dreams
(21:41):
because at nighttime the defensemechanisms drop and things begin
to appear in our dreams with alowered sense of defense
mechanism to them.
And sometimes you can ease intothat conversation by
highlighting something thatshowed up in their own dream and
ask the question.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
questions so how might this relate to what we've
been talking about so yeah Ithink one of the one of the ways
that I try to um move them moreconsciously uh is to say I think
we mentioned it earlier uh inanother session I'm married the
trait I'm married to the traitthat protects me more than I am
(22:20):
to the individual otherindividual and so say that say
say that one more time well I'mmarried to the trait that
protects me more than I am tothe other individual so when
there's a conflict I always fallback on the thing that protects
me from being hurt and so peopletypically people that make sense
because they can identify thatpretty quickly whether they
avoid whether they fight youknow all the fight flight freeze
(22:42):
things that kicks in and so whenthey kind of intellectually
understand that and they allalmost always smile when I say
it they go oh yeah I do that andI said that's why it's hard
because you have to rise abovethat need to protect yourself
and engage in a conversationthat's painful or could be
painful.
(23:02):
And then you know who wants todo that?
And I use some humor I say whowants to do that well evidently
the two of you need to becauseyou're here.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
One of the phrases that has always helped me both
with my own journey but also inworking with others is the
phrase when stress levels go upwe typically retreat to that
which is more familiar or mostfamiliar.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
So that includes going to more articulate much
more articulate way of sayingwhat I just said.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
No I think I think I think it's complementary to it
in that we that can easily applyto family of origin that I'll
retreat back to being like achild sometimes if the stress
levels go high enough becausethat pattern was how I survived
in the home.
But I think what you said movesit more into kind of my adult
(23:50):
adaptation that I will hold onor I'm more connected to that
which protects me when I feellike I'm being attacked.
And those patterns have ahistory to them on how they got
formed.
And sometimes it takes goingback into that history and
(24:10):
figuring out why that protectivemechanism is such a go-to for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Yeah and that's that goes back to uh figuring out
your family of origin.
How do you how'd you learn tohandle your emotions as a child
depending on the environmentyou're in that's typically how
that trait gets developed.
Yeah yeah and it's all kind ofconnected from that sense.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
I actually think that's probably a great place to
stop because it's a a greatthought for people to think
about for a while and then comeback and maybe next episode we
can pick one of the other fourand go a little more in depth as
to how the nurture plays outtheir journey.
To be honest if it's okay withyou I'd love to stay with the
(24:55):
stabilizing static um stylesfirst and then show how that
kind of shifts to the dynamicand how even if it's not our
natural go-to we can begin toaccess that part of who we are.
Yeah there's a lot of nuances toall of that so you're right
that's fine.
Yeah that's great.
Tim as always great to be withyou.
(25:16):
Great to be with you that's itfor this episode of Therapy
Coaching and Dreams.
If you're enjoying the podcastwe'd love for you to share it
(25:36):
with someone who mightappreciate it as well.
And if you are interested inworking with either of the
co-hosts you can do so at theirrespective websites Dr Shally at
AFCcounselors dot com or Dr.
Kelly at inyourdreamscoach.
Thanks for being here and untilnext time keep growing stay
curious and take good care ofyourself.
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
Yeah no that's good stuff.
Welcome to Therapy Coaching and Dreams.
I'm D.
Kelly, and I'm here with myco-host, Jim Shaley.
We're a coach and a therapistwho love talking about how inner
work can help you with moreawareness, purpose, and freedom.
Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Like I would see, I see you as being a natural
nurturer.
And yet you're and yet you tellme you're not, that you play a
you step up because of theresponsibility of that.
And you see me as a dynamic, andI don't see that.
It's just interesting from ourYeah, it is.
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
It is.
So, and that leads to, I think,what's really important to me in
a discussion about personalitystyles and um kind of when we
create categories, and somepeople will see a category or a
description of a category, andit doesn't make sense.
And I always think that it'simportant, regardless of what
(01:06):
system you're looking at,whether it's internal family
systems in all of theircategories, or Yun Yan side in
their categories, or strengthfinders in their categories, on
and on, that you have to go inand create language that fits
for you.
Now, there are some generalitiesthat we can state, and you've
said that several times, thatgenerally speaking, and I love
(01:27):
that phrase because I think itgives someone an ability to say,
Yeah, I can see how you wouldsay that, but why I think this
is true for me, and then allowsomebody to explore that over
time and figure out what itmeans.
When you talk about living outof an initiating place where you
(01:48):
initiating just because it's alittle more impulsive, it's a
little more instinctual, I guessis the phrase you used.
Do you think living out of theinstinct is more of the feminine
dynamic side, in tune with thatintuition?
And here's my intuition, so Ijust go do it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Well, I think that that that's the larger
discussion, is when we talkabout the four quadrants that we
that we discuss in our in myframework, it's like there's a
natural energy that we have.
So some are natural responders,some are are natural initiators,
some are natural transformers.
There's a natural style therethat we don't see in terms of
(02:31):
masculine or feminine, it's justwho I am.
And I think that's the challengeis okay, is that still
effective?
Is it still working in my life?
And then as I'm I'm more open towho I who I might be in a
relationship with and theirdynamic, and then I'm I'm
playing off of them.
So now I have a clearer view ofmy energy.
(02:53):
Uh, when we're temptedtemporally to just as simply go,
well, that's kind of the way Iam.
So I'm I'm this and you're that,and let's just play that out.
I think one of the things wetalked about in previous
sessions is where do I need tobe?
If we see that we all have haveall of those in us somewhere,
where do I need to be at anygiven moment?
So I think from my perspective,uh while the impulsive or the
(03:19):
dynamic side of me makes senseto do certain things, I would
say that I I lack the probablythis uh I don't know.
Now I'm I'm stuck in my ownthinking right now in that
sense, because we're trying tochallenge people to move to a
(03:40):
more integrated self, right?
Yeah.
So where would you see me?
I know we're using ourselves asa therapy kind of thing here,
but where would you see my lack?
SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
Well, I think one of the things that is attractive
about you is that you are awareof the variety of styles.
And I think one of the thingsthat you do very well is when
you know there is an importanceto pull on a different energy.
I just think you are balancedenough to begin to draw on that.
(04:15):
I think there are some times inyour life where you might
shortchange your outcomebecause, for example, it's not
quite as easy for you to pull onthe dynamic masculine and
initiate.
It comes in spurts.
Um, and yet I do think that youinitiate marvelously when it has
(04:38):
captivated your imagination.
You have enough charisma thatyou draw others into that vision
and bring some people along forthat journey.
And often others kind of ride onthe coattails of that, which to
me is an example of the dynamicmasculine, where others ride the
wake of the things that youcreate.
(04:58):
And so I think you do thatoften.
Um, but I don't think that thatis your um like go-to place of
comfort.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Yeah.
Uh yeah, to move back to, Ithink one of the things that you
mentioned talking about todaywas more of the masculine.
Which one do you we talk about?
The masculine stabilizer?
Yeah, the stabilizer.
Yeah.
Initiating the how how does thatplay out?
The masculine stabilizer.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
How does that play out in regard to initiation?
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
Uh yeah, and yeah, because the we when we talk in
terms of dynamic, typically it'sinitiating energy, but you
combine that with uh a morestatic personality type, that's
I think where it becomes moredictatorial.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
If I'm hearing the question correctly, you're
asking how does somebody who'sin that stabilizer uh the
masculine the masculine static.
Masculine static, how do theyinitiate, how do they move
forward on some things?
And my answer to that is thatthe typical way is that they
(06:09):
address the problem throughorganization.
They address the problem bypulling together a system that
will take care of it and createa way by which everyone
hopefully will see, oh, this isequitable.
This will work for everyone.
It's kind of a strategicplanning sort of thing versus
(06:31):
the dynamic energy that sees theproblem and and moves
immediately.
It is a response to the problemthat says, well, let's just take
action.
Let's step into this.
And if we break a few things, wecan pick it up after the fact.
Or if it doesn't work, we'regoing to try several other
(06:51):
things.
It's kind of the current umbusiness climate.
Not, it's not brand new, it'sbeen going on for a little
while, but fail fast is kind ofthat masculine dynamic uh side.
And I don't think that thestabilizer is real comfortable
with that because of the peopleyou leave in the wake that get
(07:12):
injured, or the people that arehurt by that, or the people that
get fired or quit or fall away,and you leave some things in
your wake that are problematic.
So the approach of thestabilizer is hold on a second,
let's plan this out before welaunch.
Let's make sure we've played outthe scenarios of where this
(07:34):
might go.
But there is a for those wholove the problem solving side,
there is a very intentionalpurpose of we are moving ahead,
we're going to set a timetableuh to bring this to pass.
SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
Another way of looking at it would be the map,
the mask gun static would belike a police department or a
fire department.
Because they have to bring orderto things and and and yet they
have to have a structure inplace, and then they actually
respond to things as they needto, but it does take that mask
gun static to hold steady untiluntil they're needed.
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
Oh, yeah, I think that's fair.
I would probably go more withthe metaphor of the police
department than the firedepartment, because I think the
police department, um, at leastin theory, are guided by the
rules and the regulations ofsociety or a community and are
trying to implement those.
The fire department jumps intoaction, runs down a fire pole,
(08:33):
and starts spraying waterwherever it goes, doesn't matter
what the damage is, they justspray.
That's right.
Well, that's that's kind of likea lot of people.
A lot of people do not.
I know quite a few.
And there are others who thencome in behind after the fire
(08:55):
department is long gone and haveto shovel the junk and clean up
the mess and rebuild theproject.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
Absolutely.
And those would be theinitiators and the transformers.
They see a possibility.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
And at that point, the firefighter chief will be on
the news saying wonderful thingsand being interviewed as the
hero.
And then all through the night,there is somebody that's back
there trying to push the waterout of the living room.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
So then I can then somebody comes along and says,
Okay, we gotta figure out wherethey're starting.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
So so let's go back to Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
Go ahead.
You go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
The negative the negative sideof that would be the the
masculine static would bedictatorial.
Because they didn't they demandthat would be the negative
aspect.
They get control of somethingand then they don't let people
move beyond that, and they theythey're oppressive.
(09:57):
That would be the negative sideof it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
I agree with that 100%.
That is the um rigidness, thedysfunctional um masculine
static or stabilizer, is thatthey actually slow everything
down in many ways because thereis no other way to look at it.
(10:21):
So, one of the questions that Ihad for you that I think this
speaks of is so, what does thistype of person lose in
relationship if they're notaware of the imbalance that they
might have in their life?
And I think there are a lot ofthings, but one of them
certainly is that you lose arelationship because you are
(10:44):
certain you're right.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
I mean, it's the old it's the old adage, do you want
to be right or have arelationship?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
And I think that that should be said every day in
this in this person's life.
If this is where you live, youhave to you have to wake up in
the morning and say, okay, todayit's my choice.
Do I want to be right or do Iwant to be in relationship?
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
I think it'd be a good mantra for everyone,
probably, but it's specificallyfor those people that prefer to
be right all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
Yeah.
unknown (11:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
And again, that's the that's the subtlety of it.
Uh, a lot of times that trait isso strong that they they don't
see it as being right or wrong.
They just think that it's theway it is.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
Well, I'll give you another example from my
perspective of a person who isthis stabilizer, the masculine
static side, is that whensomebody disagrees with you, the
internal response is, uh, I justdidn't explain it well enough
because it's so obvious.
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the term that everybody
uses now, which is mansplaining.
I'll just keep talking to youand explaining it to you, and
finally you'll get it and you'llagree with me, and we'll all be
happy.
It'll be great.
Yeah, because this is reallyit's the opposite of the
validation piece that I try toteach men specifically a lot,
which is nothing is heard untilyou say, Oh, I can understand
(12:15):
how you feel that way, asopposed to um let me explain it
a different way.
I think you'll I think you'llget it this time.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Or or the line that would be the masculine, that
would be the masculine static.
Yeah, you keep repeating it.
Yeah, the other line thatdoesn't help a whole lot is tell
me what you don't understandabout this.
That line doesn't help mucheither.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Because basically you just call the person a kind
of a moron.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Well, why would you feel like a moron?
I'm just trying to explain thisto you.
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
You know, that's a great, that's a great question.
Uh, I probably naturally feellike one, and you helped me feel
more like one.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
So well, now that we've settled that, it should be
obvious that we go my direction.
Oh, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
So that's where a lot that's where a lot of people
live, though.
It really is.
SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So bridge this a little bit forus.
Um, when somebody lives fromthis place in an out-of-balanced
way, what are they missing outon life?
Because there are a lot ofpieces of life that's that seem
to me to be dependent upon um anopenness to other perspectives.
(13:38):
And in other ways, uh differentworldviews, different ways to
see problems.
And if you are strong, strong,strong stabilizer, just share a
couple ways in which those otherparts of yourself that are
finding no expression, what doyou miss out on on life?
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
I I think uh first of all, you you have to admit or
acknowledge you're missing outof something.
Great point.
I mean, the the strong sense ofthe need to be right is so uh
enticing and and uh it's justI'm just right.
(14:19):
And so to get someone toacknowledge their other views uh
that are as valid, that's that'sa big hurdle for some
personality styles.
And I would say the strongmasculine um initiator, that
would be the hardest to get thatbecause they just keep moving
forward.
So I think that's you have tostart by pointing it out, and so
(14:39):
there has to be somethingupsetting in their life, some
kind of conflict that gets themto see that.
And I think even the phrase yousaid a few minutes ago about
every morning get up and say, Doyou want to be right to have a
relationship?
If you're married to someonethat has that trait, that's not
a bad intervention if they havea if they're if their likability
is still there.
You could tease, you could, youcould tease that a little bit
(15:02):
and try to push people to theirblind spots.
Yeah, like it would be theopposite of that if you had a
strong nurturing personalitythat did too much and they're
married to a person who seesthat they give away too much,
how do you get their attentionand get them to see that that
trait probably uh needs to bebalanced?
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
I mean, yeah, because the the response there
often is, and correct me if youthink I'm wrong, but the
response for that nurture sidethat we sometimes refer to as
the feminine static is thatthat's where they find meaning
is caring for others.
That's where they find theiridentity.
And it's difficult to showsomebody that there is more to
(15:48):
who they are if they begin topay attention to their own
needs.
Yeah, it's like that masculineinitiating, they get value from
being right.
Yeah.
Here is here's my thought on thenurturer, that feminine one who
is responding and caring andhelping others in so many
different ways.
(16:08):
That the other three personalitystyles, when they are
dysfunctional, the person who isthat responder will often just
give in or give up.
They will separate themselvesfrom their own needs, they will
shrug and go quiet, or they willacquiesce and you miss out on
(16:33):
their voice.
So one of the things thathappens, and I'll just use the
stabilizer in this case, if youare drilling down trying to show
that you are right, and theperson with whom you're in a
relationship, whether it's acoworker, a spouse, or a child
or a parent, and you push andpush, and the person acquiesces,
in that moment, what you loseout on is another worldview,
(16:56):
another perspective, another wayof seeing problems.
Um, you certainly miss out onsuch things as intuition and a
kind of sixth sense about thingsbecause you tend to be driven by
the logic, what the senses takein and how you can logically
process that.
(17:17):
And it's a tragic loss, I think,of seeing a world that's beyond
that, a world that's intuitive.
And it's a world that you don'trealize it's black and white
until you begin to see thecolors that other people see.
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
Yeah.
It's like it's like people thattravel the world.
They get introduced to differentcultures and it it opens up
their world to a whole differentway of looking at it.
I mean, it goes back a littlebit what we talked about, I
think, in the first our first uhtime together, looking back to
move ahead.
Another way to examine that isto get people to view how their
family of origin handleemotions, and then it intrigues
(17:59):
them to have some curiosityabout the larger, their larger
personality, how they interactwith others, all those things.
I mean, you don't know you needsome insight until you need some
insight.
And I think that's yeah, that'salways the challenge is how do
you get to a place where Ireally am open to a different
(18:21):
way of viewing things.
And oftentimes it comes becauseof a marriage or a relationship
or some work relationship that'sfrustrating.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:30):
Why would I correct something if it's working for
me?
Yeah, absolutely.
And so when people when peopleshow up in your office, there's
something that has prompted thatthat is no longer working.
And that's the wonderful momentof possible shift or change.
Yeah.
(18:50):
And to be a good steward ofthose moments, both if it's your
own, but also if somebody comesto you and to realize, oh, this
is this is an important moment.
SPEAKER_01 (19:01):
Yeah, that's why I will say uh any trauma, job
loss, whatever that is, it's adoorway through better
understanding of self.
It's it's the only reframe thatI think can help people relax a
little bit and realize, okay,there's there can be a benefit
to this, even though it's ahorrible thing to go through or
it's traumatic.
(19:22):
Uh, how do I respond to that?
And I think that's where itopens us up to examine ourselves
in a different way.
And it's it's always iffy howpeople are going to respond to
that.
Because there's a fine linebetween validating them and
understanding where they'recoming from, and then at some
point turning it around to themand saying, What role did you
(19:43):
play in this?
I mean, from my perspective, ashard as it is, if you come in
and say your spouse has left youor your partner has left you,
and you don't understand it,you're devastated, eventually uh
my style would be, what part didyou play in it?
Well, you don't you don't saythat the first sentence because
(20:04):
typically that's when you slamthe door in their face.
You you kind of build arelationship, but I think you do
a disservice to the client ifyou don't ask that question at
some point.
I mean, there are rare exampleswhere it's it perhaps is
one-sided, but most of the timethere is a dynamic that's
happening.
And I think our frame, ourframework we're talking about,
(20:26):
can certainly go a long way inhelping you bring peace to
yourself about it.
Knowing where you need to be ifsomeone leaves you, you know,
how what do I need to access?
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Yeah, I so agree with that, Jim.
I realize that anywhere in theprocess of proposing what this
person might have had to do withit, I'll personalize it.
What did I have to do with theconflict or the problem that
(20:58):
we're facing?
There is at some level a it'salmost like a visceral response
where you feel defensemechanisms go up.
You know, I'm being challenged,I'm being critiqued, and I'm
gonna have to defend myself.
I'm gonna have to, once again,I'm the person that's getting
(21:19):
picked on, getting beat on.
And so easing into that questionto try and keep defenses low
enough so that I could actuallyhear the question and not just
hear my defenses is veryimportant.
It's also one of the reasons whyI love working with dreams
(21:41):
because at nighttime the defensemechanisms drop and things begin
to appear in our dreams with alowered sense of defense
mechanism to them.
And sometimes you can ease intothat conversation by
highlighting something thatshowed up in their own dream and
ask the question.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
questions so how might this relate to what we've
been talking about so yeah Ithink one of the one of the ways
that I try to um move them moreconsciously uh is to say I think
we mentioned it earlier uh inanother session I'm married the
trait I'm married to the traitthat protects me more than I am
(22:20):
to the individual otherindividual and so say that say
say that one more time well I'mmarried to the trait that
protects me more than I am tothe other individual so when
there's a conflict I always fallback on the thing that protects
me from being hurt and so peopletypically people that make sense
because they can identify thatpretty quickly whether they
avoid whether they fight youknow all the fight flight freeze
(22:42):
things that kicks in and so whenthey kind of intellectually
understand that and they allalmost always smile when I say
it they go oh yeah I do that andI said that's why it's hard
because you have to rise abovethat need to protect yourself
and engage in a conversationthat's painful or could be
painful.
(23:02):
And then you know who wants todo that?
And I use some humor I say whowants to do that well evidently
the two of you need to becauseyou're here.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
One of the phrases that has always helped me both
with my own journey but also inworking with others is the
phrase when stress levels go upwe typically retreat to that
which is more familiar or mostfamiliar.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
So that includes going to more articulate much
more articulate way of sayingwhat I just said.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
No I think I think I think it's complementary to it
in that we that can easily applyto family of origin that I'll
retreat back to being like achild sometimes if the stress
levels go high enough becausethat pattern was how I survived
in the home.
But I think what you said movesit more into kind of my adult
(23:50):
adaptation that I will hold onor I'm more connected to that
which protects me when I feellike I'm being attacked.
And those patterns have ahistory to them on how they got
formed.
And sometimes it takes goingback into that history and
(24:10):
figuring out why that protectivemechanism is such a go-to for
me.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Yeah and that's that goes back to uh figuring out
your family of origin.
How do you how'd you learn tohandle your emotions as a child
depending on the environmentyou're in that's typically how
that trait gets developed.
Yeah yeah and it's all kind ofconnected from that sense.
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
I actually think that's probably a great place to
stop because it's a a greatthought for people to think
about for a while and then comeback and maybe next episode we
can pick one of the other fourand go a little more in depth as
to how the nurture plays outtheir journey.
To be honest if it's okay withyou I'd love to stay with the
(24:55):
stabilizing static um stylesfirst and then show how that
kind of shifts to the dynamicand how even if it's not our
natural go-to we can begin toaccess that part of who we are.
Yeah there's a lot of nuances toall of that so you're right
that's fine.
Yeah that's great.
Tim as always great to be withyou.
(25:16):
Great to be with you that's itfor this episode of Therapy
Coaching and Dreams.
If you're enjoying the podcastwe'd love for you to share it
(25:36):
with someone who mightappreciate it as well.
And if you are interested inworking with either of the
co-hosts you can do so at theirrespective websites Dr Shally at
AFCcounselors dot com or Dr.
Kelly at inyourdreamscoach.
Thanks for being here and untilnext time keep growing stay
curious and take good care ofyourself.
SPEAKER_01 (25:59):
Yeah no that's good stuff.
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