July 23, 2026 • 28 mins
"Podcasting is the easiest way to produce content because you are not the expert in that conversation, but you are the one hosting it." – Anii Hoang
Anii is the host of The Aspiring CMO Podcast and a content marketer who has built her career by consistently creating content, learning from data, and never being afraid to experiment. She shared how starting a podcast before she was an experienced marketer helped her build a personal brand, expand her network, and open doors that a CV alone never could.
One of my biggest takeaways was that great content marketers aren't obsessed with going viral—they're obsessed with getting a little better every time they publish. They study what works, learn from the numbers, and keep improving. That mindset reminded me of something we live by at Seven Million Bikes Podcasts and Saigon Podcast Studio: improve by just 1% every day.
Key Takeaways:
- Why starting a podcast can accelerate your career and build your personal brand.
- The habits and mindset that separate great content marketers from average ones.
- Why consistency, data, and constant improvement matter more than chasing viral content.
- Common mistakes businesses make before they even start creating content.
- How podcasting has evolved and why having a unique concept is more important than ever.
Timestamps
00:00 – Rapid-fire content marketing advice and Anii's journey into podcasting
02:00 – How The Aspiring CMO Podcast helped build her personal brand and career
06:00 – What separates great content marketers from everyone else
10:00 – The importance of retention, better content, and why shorter often wins
13:00 – Why great marketing starts with a great product, not great content
16:00 – Chasing virality, controversy, and setting the right boundaries for brands
20:30 – The future of podcasting and why every new show needs a memorable concept
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
In a quiet residential apartment in Bintan
District Saigon, while most ofthe city is asleep, a young
marketer sits under the harshglare of a desk lamp, staring
intently at a video editingtimeline.
She's reviewing the analytics ofher latest short form video
clip, tracking the trajectory ofa line that tells a brutal
(00:22):
story.
The retention graph doesn't lie.
It shows a massive instantaneousspike in the first single
second, followed by a steepnear-vertical plunge.
Within five seconds, almost theentire audience has scrolled
away.
She has spent hours scripting,recording, and editing the piece
(00:46):
believing it was high qualitycontent.
But the data reveals a painfulreality.
Her audience checked out beforeshe even reached her core
message.
This is the relentless,unforgiving landscape of modern
video content in 2026.
In an era dominated by rapidscrolling and microscopic
(01:09):
attention spans, the traditionalrules of engagement have been
completely rewritten.
Many creators and brands fallinto the trap of playing a pure
numbers game, churning outvolume while failing to analyze
and improve the actualperformance mechanic of their
work.
They mistakenly believe that asingle magical post will somehow
(01:33):
catch fire and go viralorganically.
The truth is, high-performingcontent marketing is a
disciplined science of microadjustments.
It requires a ruthless obsessionwith the first five seconds of a
visual hook and an understandingof audience psychology and a
willingness to cast asidepersonal creative bias in favor
(01:55):
of raw performance data.
The best marketers do not lookat their content through the
lens of ideology or perfection,they look at it through the lens
of return on investment.
They understand that to trulycommand attention and a crowded
digital feed, we must master thedelicate balance between
high-end production aestheticsand rapid, punchy execution.
(02:18):
If a brand can't capture thehuman brain's desire for a media
understanding within the span ofa single breath, the rest of the
message simply ceased to exist.
I'm Neil Mackay, the founder of7 Million Bikes Podcasts and
Saigon Podcast Studio, and thisis VM Content Marketing.
In this episode, I sat down withAnnie Wang, marketing expert and
(02:41):
host of the Aspiring CMOPodcast, to break down the
mechanics of modern digitalattention.
We discuss the strategicrealities of running a podcast
as a junior professional tonetwork with industry titans.
How to properly interpret videoretention graphs to iterate your
creative process and whybusinesses continue to throw
(03:04):
money away by hiring marketingteams that lack the courage to
test bold, unconventional ideas.
(03:31):
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
(03:56):
So Annie, we start every episodewith these rapid-fire questions,
quick answers, don't think aboutit too much.
A few words, one sentence.
Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Alright, what's the best piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Start a fake account, follow your ICP's
audience.
So not the ICP necessarily, butthe people that they follow, and
then just fill up your fakeaccounts feed with those
content.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
What's the worst content marketing advice you've
ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Act natural.
What does natural mean?
What does it mean?
People don't want to see mynatural state.
They want to see my polishedface.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
This is one of my biggest pet peeves.
I did a TV commercial once andthey told me to make my hands
more natural.
And they kept saying, morenatural?
I don't know what natural handsare.
I have no idea what that means.
Next question.
What is the metric you actuallycare about?
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Well it depends.
If you're a content marketer,you care really about views.
Then the source of the views andthen email signups.
But that's more really dependson the campaign.
But overall, as a marketer, youshould really think about your
ROI.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Next question.
One piece of content marketingadvice for someone starting from
zero next week.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Decide what you want to sell, maybe it's a product or
a service, and then start abrand new either YouTube
channel, Instagram account,TikTok account, and then just
create consistently on thatplatform.
You're gonna fail a lot, butthat failure will basically help
you to learn what works.
And that's the best way tolearn.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
And last question podcast.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
It's great.
And not just for contentmarketing.
It's great to build inrelationships and partnerships.
It goes beyond just content.
And if it's done right, it canbe not just content marketing,
but a source of many differentthings.
So I I recommend having apodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
So you started your own podcast, The Aspiring CMO,
to talk to senior CMOs.
And you were really junior atthe time.
So that's very brave.
Well done on that.
How did you manage to get thesepeople to come on a brand new
podcast and be interviewed bysomeone who hasn't reached that
level yet?
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
That's a great question.
And it was very easy because Istarted networking before I
started a podcast, and manypeople start the podcast to
network.
And there's a there verydifferent cycle to it.
Because I have already seenthese people in person, like
yourself, and you're on my show.
It was so much easier to justcarry the conversation to a
(06:29):
video chat or like a videorecording.
So yeah, started my networkingfirst.
And when people hear that, ohyou are CMO, I want to learn
from you.
Actually, 90% of the people arepretty happy to hear that.
So stroking people's ego is agreat, great tactic.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
And so starting your own podcast, what did it do for
your own brand?
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
Employers were so much easier to hire me because
they saw immediately what I wascapable of making as a hobby
level.
So I did my podcast obviouslyout of my free time, using my
free resources.
And so it was easy to put myselfforward that way.
(07:11):
What it did for my brand, Ithink it started a brand for me.
Not just people started to knowme for this podcast, which is, I
don't know, it sounds silly tosay, but I was very surprised to
hear it.
Because in my mind, I'm like,well, this is just my hobby, but
you know me for this sh for thisproject, and it really means a
lot.
So it's consistency over time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
And it's not silly, I'm the same.
I still get people say to me,Oh, you're you're from the
podcast, and I kind of forgetabout it as well.
And then you talk to people, anda lot of people as well don't
even consume the podcast, theysee the short video clips, which
is so cool.
And then the coolest thing thatever happened to me was being
recognized in full walk bysomebody who came up to me, and
(07:52):
they were actually from Scotlandon holiday in Vietnam, and they
were like, You're you're NeomiKai, right?
And I was like, Yeah, yeah.
And they're like, Yeah, I'lllisten to your podcast.
I listened to it before I cameto Vietnam, it's been so
helpful.
I just wanted to come say hello.
That was hands down the coolestthing that's ever happened to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Exactly.
Wow.
Welcome, you see, like we wejust kind of do things in public
and people take notes.
They're not gonna clap with youon the spot, but they they know
things.
I I know that people will watchand and people will sometimes
remember to.
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
So why a podcast?
Why did this channel really helpyour brand?
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Podcasting is the easiest way to produce content
because you are not the expertin that conversation, but you
are the one hosting it.
So whenever people want to learnsomething from an expert and you
are the first one or one of thefew ones who host it well, they
will immediately recognize thatexpertise associated with your
(08:50):
brand.
So podcasting is a good entrypoint for people who don't want
to be the solo creator, whodon't want to always put
themselves in front of the uhcamera and things.
So that's why podcasting isreally, really helpful.
Also, it's not a lot ofplanning, like you just have to
plan a few questions, but thenthe rest of the things will read
(09:10):
from the guests.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
So you've now interviewed dozens of CMOs on
your podcast.
What makes a good CMO stand out?
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
To me, is how they handle pressure and how they
handle different campaigns.
So in my show, I often ask themabout an example of a campaign
they like to present or or theyremember.
And some of them fail to answer,some of them are really specific
to answer those questions.
(09:39):
And I think that really showsthat I know that you know anyone
can get a CMO title.
If I join a startup tomorrow andI'll be like, you know what,
guys, I'm the only marketingperson, call me the CMO, I'll be
a CMO.
But the purpose of the show isto explore what it takes to be a
good one.
And I have noticed that somemarketers I have interviewed
(10:01):
didn't have either the themanagement uh background or they
couldn't really answer a verysimple question, which is like
your favorite campaign, how didyou achieve it?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
So how did the podcast format help you be able
to come to those conclusions?
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I watch people's body language.
When you are in a podcast, atthe end of the day, it is just a
conversation, and you can seehow people are passionate about
or not passionate about thistopic.
And granted, I also feel thatsome people are really lacking
public speaking skills, so maybethey have a hard time expressing
themselves and they could bestill like good marketers and
(10:40):
stuff.
But yeah, the way they answer,the way they structure their
thoughts really helps me torealize what it takes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
And is that one thing that you see over and over
again from the people who reallyget content marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
It's so simple.
People who know contentmarketing are obsessed with what
that piece of content is saying,looks like, and sounds like.
And they have a natural instinctof looking at the psychology
behind every single hook, whatit takes to be viral, what
(11:20):
formats it needs.
And they're extremely relentlessof on trying.
So the best influencers andcontent marketers, they put out
hundreds of content a month.
So they would post like two tothree times a day just because
content is so much about anumber scheme, but also
improving those numbers.
And I made the mistakepersonally of just following a
(11:42):
number scheme, but then notimproving my process.
So I think when I still look atgood content marketers and now
influencers, they areinfluencers.
They consistently improvingevery single piece of content
they put out, whether it'sfunnier, shorter, punchier, more
controversial, they they have nobias towards what could work and
(12:05):
what doesn't, so long it works.
So that's and not a lot ofpeople have that type of mindset
because uh if you have what ittakes, you don't care about what
people think about you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
They're not too stuck to what they've done in
the past.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
Correct.
And they're also not stuck withthe ideology of like what they
think uh good content shouldlook like.
When you're a paid media buyer,for example, it really uh shows
uh the number shows, let's say,like something that is a way low
production, way faster at it,maybe badly done from a
(12:40):
professional point of view,could convert higher.
And at the end of the day, ROImatters the most.
And depending on what industry,what product, what offer you
have, though those content willbe different.
And uh, as a content marketer,your job is to have the speed
and the creativity to churn outas many as fast and as possible.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
What I love about that is it's something that I've
taught from the beginning.
And we live every day here inthe Cyclone Podcast Studio and
with 7 million bikes podcasts.
It's always just trying to be 1%better every time.
It's a tiny amount, but if youdo that every single day, that's
365% better by the end of theyear.
Yeah.
And we see this all the time.
We're always trying to getbetter at everything we do,
(13:24):
whether it's lighting, whetherit's creating content.
And if you just try to be thattiny bit better every time, it
makes a massive difference.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Correct, yes, yes.
And I I also think from acontent marketing perspective
though, or a marketingperspective, not just you put
out more and better, but thenyou take the feedback from the
numbers you have given.
So a good content marketer alsolooks at the the retention graph
of a video.
If if I see that my video lookslike retention graph looks like
(13:51):
this, well, it looks, it lookslike people caught the attention
from the first one second, butthen they drop.
So that means my content sucks.
But like if my content graphlooks like this, like more
horizontal, which it should bethe goal, people stay to watch
till the end.
And that that signals are goodcontent.
But most of our graphs look likethis.
(14:13):
So it looks like a slope.
And when you when you're doingthese, like let's do better one
person at a time, uh, you haveto really increase that watch
time.
And or if it's a static post andthen it's like different
metrics, right?
But but we are living in a videoworld, like we're making a video
(14:33):
right now.
So at the end of the day, howlong can you make people watch
that piece of content?
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
And what is the best tip to make people watch longer?
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
It has to be shorter, it has to be the first
five seconds has to be investedso much in like what it looks
like, what what's the title ontop of my head today?
What do I say?
And yeah, like the right now,just a production setup already
catches attention because itlooks so pretty, right?
It's it's beauty.
So things that are really easyto for people to understand, or
(15:05):
if you are an a sport brand, whydo people use athletes in their
videos, right?
It's easier for the brain tounderstand, like, okay, if I see
an athlete in a in my sportbrand, people will have the
association that my brand isassociated with athletes.
Because I sell sport brands,like sports clothes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Talking about the visual is so important, and I I
try and talk I try and say thisto people because there's some
people wonder why the shortvideos or the long videos on
YouTube aren't doing very well.
And we produce them, and I lookat them and I go in my head
because I'm I don't really wantto tell them because I know it's
not gonna change much, butyou're using a condenser
(15:47):
microphone for one, which is notgood quality, so the sound isn't
great, but mostly you're usinglike a 720p webcam camera, and
your guest is as well, andyou're laughing because you see
it on YouTube.
I did the same thing, but inmost people these days are now
watching YouTube on their TV, soyou blow up to a big 50-inch.
I saw a TV in the shop in theshop the other day, 100-inch TV.
(16:08):
So somebody's watching yourYouTube content on a hundred
inch TV, the content quality isawful.
And this is what we prideourselves on here, and we're
really excited at PsychonPodcast Studio is the aesthetic,
the lighting, the quality of thevideo.
Instantly you see that in ashort video or a long video, and
you can see right away that thequality is much better.
(16:28):
And this is what matters now onYouTube, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah.
I think part of it is obviouslythe production quality because I
mean, you know, podcastingtwenty in 2020 is not the same
as podcasting in 2026.
Like this industry has changed alot, and the expectation of
people to watch a podcast orlisten to a podcast, or even
like just stop and just listento the first second, like it has
(16:52):
to be with the production.
So I will scroll past somethingthat is like just doesn't catch
my my beauty attention, right?
But uh a production like thisreally helps.
But the next step is really likewhat does the person say?
What are the triggering wordsand questions that make a short
(17:14):
form video successful?
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
So, from all these conversations on your podcast,
from all your experience, whatdo businesses need to get right
with content marketing beforethey even start?
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Well, it's marketing at the end of the day is selling
something.
And if you have nothing to sell,it's hard to do in marketing.
So as a business, you alreadyhave to have something working
for you in order to market itbetter.
So it's hard to also marketsomething that everyone else
provides.
(17:47):
So you have to invest in yourproduct or your service more.
Let's say water, right?
Like I'm not doing watercompanies.
We need water and we have todifferentiate ourselves.
So if you, as a business owner,you don't have that mindset how
you are differentiating yourselffrom your competition, and the
marketer will have a very, veryhard time to follow your vision
(18:10):
because you don't have a vision.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
It reminds me of one of the clients we work with to
pharmaceutical marketing.
And one of the things I've heardthem say many times, and I love
it, is the difference betweenPepsi and Coca-Cola is
marketing.
Because at the end of the day,they're both sugary brown, fizzy
water.
It's just which one hasdifferent marketing, makes you
choose which one you drink.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Exactly.
Correct.
And Coca-Cola really won whenthey just like, okay, we're
gonna own Santa Claus.
So see, like even conventionalbrands had invested in like
their how to say today'sspokesperson, avatar, or content
creator, right?
Every brand has a a face ormultiple faces to be safe, but
(18:53):
the best ones only have one.
And and the best ones only haveone that people love.
So I think that's a goodexample.
But you can see that betweenPepsi and Coca-Cola, the
differentiation is there too,because they're always coming up
with different uh flavors anddifferent like features, so
that's a zero calorie or zerosomething, or like they add a
(19:14):
little bit of flavor in there,and that has to come from the
product marketer or productdeveloper or something, and then
the marketer can sell it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Now, when it comes to content marketing, where do
you see businesses throwingmoney away?
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Hiring the wrong people, obviously.
Like I think that says thenumber one.
When I one of the questions waslike, what sets apart a good
content marketer in my mind,right?
And if you hire someone whonever had a content marketing
experience or someone whodoesn't have the guts to be
controversial, to be to trythings out, I think that's the
(19:54):
biggest money because marketingtakes a long time.
Hiring the wrong people willreally like slow your budget and
slow everything.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
You mentioned the word they're controversial.
Where do you draw the linebetween being controversial and
grabbing views, between beingcontroversial and losing
customers?
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Yeah, that's where a good CMO comes in.
That's why that's why you need agood leader on the top to say,
like, okay, this is fun, butlet's draw the line.
So for example, uh Pride Monthis this month, right?
And I'm sure that decades agothis was like a no-no.
But nowadays, i if you will wantto be an inclusive and fun
brand, you have to do somethingfor Pride Month.
(20:36):
And I think there's it has to besome sort of timeline to it.
Like some things work better in2020, some things that work
better in 2026.
And of course, let's just notlet's just assume that we all
know that, you know, bad thingslike nudity and like porn and
stuff.
Like we don't want to beassociated with it in general.
(20:57):
But outside of all these bigoutliers, you need to have a
leader who can draw the line bbetween this.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
And I think of an example from my team because I
say lots of things on my podcastabout Vietnam, discover Vietnam,
and we take those clips and wepost them, and some of them go
viral, and some of them doreally well.
And one recently that did reallywell was I said that basically
Vietnamese women are badass.
Vietnamese women are amazing,don't mess with them.
And then I kind of veered intothe territory of Vietnamese men
(21:25):
are lazy when you go out into acoffee shop in the morning,
you're laughing because you see50 Vietnamese men, no females.
You see them on the constructionsites and they're doing
everything and and all of thisstuff, right?
And so it went really well.
And the comments were largelyvery supportive.
Yep, you got that right, lots ofVietnamese women commenting.
But there was some people thatwere like, no, you're full of
shit, you're that's not true,mostly from Vietnamese men, like
(21:47):
you know, we're not lazy, blah,blah, blah.
And I had to have a discussionwith the team and say, you know,
be careful in the future thatwe're not too controversial
because I don't want to get introuble.
Because at the end of the day,it's my face that's on this,
it's me.
Also, what I say is in anhour-long interview and you're
taking a clip that it might be15 seconds.
(22:08):
And also you see the themetrics.
On average, people are watchingfor three seconds or five
seconds, then they're jumping tothe comments.
So people are making a commenton something I've said for five
seconds out of a one-hour clip.
So just be careful what youchoose for clips, because I
don't want to get in trouble.
And they were amazing, they werelike, We know what you can and
(22:28):
can't get in trouble with.
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
We won't make you say anythingor we won't promote anything
that that's too controversial.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Correct.
Yes, yes, yes.
I mean this happens in virality.
Like what's I think it's make apros and cons of virality,
right?
Like not first of first andforemost, not every piece of
content goes viral.
People want to be viral, butthen they want the virality
without the consequences.
And that's just it's likewanting a unicorn for also, I
(22:56):
don't know, poops, muffins.
I don't know, like it doesn'texist.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
How often has somebody come to you and said,
We want content that goes viral?
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
Not often, but I think I'm I'm getting to that
point now.
And again, it just has to drawboundaries.
Or if you want to get viral,then you know we I have to post
so much to make it happen.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Some people think they just post one piece of
content and they're gonna go tothe body.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
Yeah, most people do.
Most people say, like, you know,you hire a magic person who will
magically do uh a viral contentfor you.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's just an expectationwhere people, everyone fails.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
It's I I've read it and I've experienced it myself,
and it's you you could post ahundred pieces of content and
you do not know which one willgo viral, but one of them will
blow up and suddenly I mean I'vehad it where I've literally
produced a piece of content withmy wife that's in it, and I've
said to her, Don't worry aboutit, nobody watches these things,
and then it blows up, and it'slike 160,000 views later.
(23:54):
She's like, You told me nobodywas gonna see this.
Like, I didn't think anybodywould.
Because I had no idea.
And I've worked for a majorcorporation here in Vietnam, and
I've heard it time and timeagain where they say, Oh, we're
gonna create some viral content,and you're like, No, no, you
don't you don't create viralcontent, it's not a thing.
And I don't know if that'schanged because that was many
years ago.
Are you still seeing that oryou're not seeing that so much
(24:15):
now in Vietnam?
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
I see that there's a a formula to making something
potentially viral, but it's notguaranteed.
Marketing and anything in lifeis just not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
So you're now on the agency side, digital web
services, DWS.
Has that changed how you viewcontent marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yes.
Being in DWS has been a greatjourney.
How I view content marketing,it's yes, it has to be very
formulated.
I'm I've been in the industryfor a couple of years now, and I
just see that some format, sometitles, some avatars just do
better.
And my job is really to takemyself out of any type of
(24:57):
judgment or bias I have towardsit, and I just like look at the
trend, the data.
And that really changed myperspective, and it's also
changed from a content marketingperspective to just not be
afraid to fail.
Because every single piece ofcontent I put out could have,
you know, in my industry, if Iget like 10,000 views, it's
(25:18):
amazing, right?
But for some industries, if Iget 10k, that's like middle or
not even considerate.
So you have to really like tryhard and and be as concise as
possible.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
And if you were to start your podcast again today,
what's the biggest thing youlearned?
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
If I had to start my podcast today, I would come to
Neomokkay's Saigon PodcastStudio and record um day maybe
one or five if I I don't know,it's really intimidating to see
all the lights at first.
But Neil, you're you are sonice.
So I I would definitely come toa place like this with someone
like you.
Of course, I wouldn't do this bymyself.
(25:59):
It's so hard to get into aproduction studio when you
haven't even produced anythingyourself.
So I would I would definitely doin-person planned and yeah, and
and in-person and planned.
That's all.
That's all.
That's all I would do.
But it however it limits thenumber of guests I can have.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
That was not pre-planned answer.
I did not ask you to say that.
So thank you very much.
That is very kind and I doappreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
I love it, but also um one tip, number one tip for
podcasting nowadays is to have aconcept.
What I've done wrong, andhundreds and hundreds of
podcasts, not just myself, donewrong.
It's just you just get on a zoomcall or you just get on a some
video recording software and yourecord, right?
But the best podcast I've seen,they have a concept.
(26:47):
They would sit on a beanbag,they would have a topic, they
would have something specialthat people want to come back
to.
So Joe Rogan has his own likeclassic setup with the road mics
and and his background.
Sure, I think that was a goodentry.
But now if I want to start over,I would be in a very different
(27:07):
setting.
I would somehow link it to mypersonality.
What do I like?
I like dancing, I liketraveling.
So somehow I would have thoseelements, whether it's like a
different destination everytime, or I'm eating food.
I think there's like a new showwhere people are having a
conversation, but they're eatingfood, like not just any food,
(27:30):
but the last meal on earth thatthey would eat.
Like it's such a differentconcept, right?
So you want to have somethingthat sets your set, like your
physical creative set apart.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Love it.
Annie, thank you so much.
This has been amazing, and thankyou for joining me on Vietnam
Content Marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, subscribe everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
This episode is hosted by me, Neil Mikai, with
production, editing, and supportfrom the 7 Million Bakes Podcast
team.
Te Huan Ling and Qi.
Thanks for listening.
Follow Vietnam Content Marketingwherever you get your podcasts,
and visit 7 Million BikesPodcast to learn more about the
team behind the show.
In a quiet residential apartment in Bintan
District Saigon, while most ofthe city is asleep, a young
marketer sits under the harshglare of a desk lamp, staring
intently at a video editingtimeline.
She's reviewing the analytics ofher latest short form video
clip, tracking the trajectory ofa line that tells a brutal
(00:22):
story.
The retention graph doesn't lie.
It shows a massive instantaneousspike in the first single
second, followed by a steepnear-vertical plunge.
Within five seconds, almost theentire audience has scrolled
away.
She has spent hours scripting,recording, and editing the piece
(00:46):
believing it was high qualitycontent.
But the data reveals a painfulreality.
Her audience checked out beforeshe even reached her core
message.
This is the relentless,unforgiving landscape of modern
video content in 2026.
In an era dominated by rapidscrolling and microscopic
(01:09):
attention spans, the traditionalrules of engagement have been
completely rewritten.
Many creators and brands fallinto the trap of playing a pure
numbers game, churning outvolume while failing to analyze
and improve the actualperformance mechanic of their
work.
They mistakenly believe that asingle magical post will somehow
(01:33):
catch fire and go viralorganically.
The truth is, high-performingcontent marketing is a
disciplined science of microadjustments.
It requires a ruthless obsessionwith the first five seconds of a
visual hook and an understandingof audience psychology and a
willingness to cast asidepersonal creative bias in favor
(01:55):
of raw performance data.
The best marketers do not lookat their content through the
lens of ideology or perfection,they look at it through the lens
of return on investment.
They understand that to trulycommand attention and a crowded
digital feed, we must master thedelicate balance between
high-end production aestheticsand rapid, punchy execution.
(02:18):
If a brand can't capture thehuman brain's desire for a media
understanding within the span ofa single breath, the rest of the
message simply ceased to exist.
I'm Neil Mackay, the founder of7 Million Bikes Podcasts and
Saigon Podcast Studio, and thisis VM Content Marketing.
In this episode, I sat down withAnnie Wang, marketing expert and
(02:41):
host of the Aspiring CMOPodcast, to break down the
mechanics of modern digitalattention.
We discuss the strategicrealities of running a podcast
as a junior professional tonetwork with industry titans.
How to properly interpret videoretention graphs to iterate your
creative process and whybusinesses continue to throw
(03:04):
money away by hiring marketingteams that lack the courage to
test bold, unconventional ideas.
(03:31):
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
(03:56):
So Annie, we start every episodewith these rapid-fire questions,
quick answers, don't think aboutit too much.
A few words, one sentence.
Are you ready?
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Alright, what's the best piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
Start a fake account, follow your ICP's
audience.
So not the ICP necessarily, butthe people that they follow, and
then just fill up your fakeaccounts feed with those
content.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
What's the worst content marketing advice you've
ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Act natural.
What does natural mean?
What does it mean?
People don't want to see mynatural state.
They want to see my polishedface.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
This is one of my biggest pet peeves.
I did a TV commercial once andthey told me to make my hands
more natural.
And they kept saying, morenatural?
I don't know what natural handsare.
I have no idea what that means.
Next question.
What is the metric you actuallycare about?
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Well it depends.
If you're a content marketer,you care really about views.
Then the source of the views andthen email signups.
But that's more really dependson the campaign.
But overall, as a marketer, youshould really think about your
ROI.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Next question.
One piece of content marketingadvice for someone starting from
zero next week.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Decide what you want to sell, maybe it's a product or
a service, and then start abrand new either YouTube
channel, Instagram account,TikTok account, and then just
create consistently on thatplatform.
You're gonna fail a lot, butthat failure will basically help
you to learn what works.
And that's the best way tolearn.
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
And last question podcast.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
It's great.
And not just for contentmarketing.
It's great to build inrelationships and partnerships.
It goes beyond just content.
And if it's done right, it canbe not just content marketing,
but a source of many differentthings.
So I I recommend having apodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
So you started your own podcast, The Aspiring CMO,
to talk to senior CMOs.
And you were really junior atthe time.
So that's very brave.
Well done on that.
How did you manage to get thesepeople to come on a brand new
podcast and be interviewed bysomeone who hasn't reached that
level yet?
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
That's a great question.
And it was very easy because Istarted networking before I
started a podcast, and manypeople start the podcast to
network.
And there's a there verydifferent cycle to it.
Because I have already seenthese people in person, like
yourself, and you're on my show.
It was so much easier to justcarry the conversation to a
(06:29):
video chat or like a videorecording.
So yeah, started my networkingfirst.
And when people hear that, ohyou are CMO, I want to learn
from you.
Actually, 90% of the people arepretty happy to hear that.
So stroking people's ego is agreat, great tactic.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
And so starting your own podcast, what did it do for
your own brand?
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
Employers were so much easier to hire me because
they saw immediately what I wascapable of making as a hobby
level.
So I did my podcast obviouslyout of my free time, using my
free resources.
And so it was easy to put myselfforward that way.
(07:11):
What it did for my brand, Ithink it started a brand for me.
Not just people started to knowme for this podcast, which is, I
don't know, it sounds silly tosay, but I was very surprised to
hear it.
Because in my mind, I'm like,well, this is just my hobby, but
you know me for this sh for thisproject, and it really means a
lot.
So it's consistency over time.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
And it's not silly, I'm the same.
I still get people say to me,Oh, you're you're from the
podcast, and I kind of forgetabout it as well.
And then you talk to people, anda lot of people as well don't
even consume the podcast, theysee the short video clips, which
is so cool.
And then the coolest thing thatever happened to me was being
recognized in full walk bysomebody who came up to me, and
(07:52):
they were actually from Scotlandon holiday in Vietnam, and they
were like, You're you're NeomiKai, right?
And I was like, Yeah, yeah.
And they're like, Yeah, I'lllisten to your podcast.
I listened to it before I cameto Vietnam, it's been so
helpful.
I just wanted to come say hello.
That was hands down the coolestthing that's ever happened to
me.
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Exactly.
Wow.
Welcome, you see, like we wejust kind of do things in public
and people take notes.
They're not gonna clap with youon the spot, but they they know
things.
I I know that people will watchand and people will sometimes
remember to.
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
So why a podcast?
Why did this channel really helpyour brand?
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Podcasting is the easiest way to produce content
because you are not the expertin that conversation, but you
are the one hosting it.
So whenever people want to learnsomething from an expert and you
are the first one or one of thefew ones who host it well, they
will immediately recognize thatexpertise associated with your
(08:50):
brand.
So podcasting is a good entrypoint for people who don't want
to be the solo creator, whodon't want to always put
themselves in front of the uhcamera and things.
So that's why podcasting isreally, really helpful.
Also, it's not a lot ofplanning, like you just have to
plan a few questions, but thenthe rest of the things will read
(09:10):
from the guests.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
So you've now interviewed dozens of CMOs on
your podcast.
What makes a good CMO stand out?
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
To me, is how they handle pressure and how they
handle different campaigns.
So in my show, I often ask themabout an example of a campaign
they like to present or or theyremember.
And some of them fail to answer,some of them are really specific
to answer those questions.
(09:39):
And I think that really showsthat I know that you know anyone
can get a CMO title.
If I join a startup tomorrow andI'll be like, you know what,
guys, I'm the only marketingperson, call me the CMO, I'll be
a CMO.
But the purpose of the show isto explore what it takes to be a
good one.
And I have noticed that somemarketers I have interviewed
(10:01):
didn't have either the themanagement uh background or they
couldn't really answer a verysimple question, which is like
your favorite campaign, how didyou achieve it?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
So how did the podcast format help you be able
to come to those conclusions?
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I watch people's body language.
When you are in a podcast, atthe end of the day, it is just a
conversation, and you can seehow people are passionate about
or not passionate about thistopic.
And granted, I also feel thatsome people are really lacking
public speaking skills, so maybethey have a hard time expressing
themselves and they could bestill like good marketers and
(10:40):
stuff.
But yeah, the way they answer,the way they structure their
thoughts really helps me torealize what it takes.
SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
And is that one thing that you see over and over
again from the people who reallyget content marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
It's so simple.
People who know contentmarketing are obsessed with what
that piece of content is saying,looks like, and sounds like.
And they have a natural instinctof looking at the psychology
behind every single hook, whatit takes to be viral, what
(11:20):
formats it needs.
And they're extremely relentlessof on trying.
So the best influencers andcontent marketers, they put out
hundreds of content a month.
So they would post like two tothree times a day just because
content is so much about anumber scheme, but also
improving those numbers.
And I made the mistakepersonally of just following a
(11:42):
number scheme, but then notimproving my process.
So I think when I still look atgood content marketers and now
influencers, they areinfluencers.
They consistently improvingevery single piece of content
they put out, whether it'sfunnier, shorter, punchier, more
controversial, they they have nobias towards what could work and
(12:05):
what doesn't, so long it works.
So that's and not a lot ofpeople have that type of mindset
because uh if you have what ittakes, you don't care about what
people think about you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
They're not too stuck to what they've done in
the past.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
Correct.
And they're also not stuck withthe ideology of like what they
think uh good content shouldlook like.
When you're a paid media buyer,for example, it really uh shows
uh the number shows, let's say,like something that is a way low
production, way faster at it,maybe badly done from a
(12:40):
professional point of view,could convert higher.
And at the end of the day, ROImatters the most.
And depending on what industry,what product, what offer you
have, though those content willbe different.
And uh, as a content marketer,your job is to have the speed
and the creativity to churn outas many as fast and as possible.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
What I love about that is it's something that I've
taught from the beginning.
And we live every day here inthe Cyclone Podcast Studio and
with 7 million bikes podcasts.
It's always just trying to be 1%better every time.
It's a tiny amount, but if youdo that every single day, that's
365% better by the end of theyear.
Yeah.
And we see this all the time.
We're always trying to getbetter at everything we do,
(13:24):
whether it's lighting, whetherit's creating content.
And if you just try to be thattiny bit better every time, it
makes a massive difference.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Correct, yes, yes.
And I I also think from acontent marketing perspective
though, or a marketingperspective, not just you put
out more and better, but thenyou take the feedback from the
numbers you have given.
So a good content marketer alsolooks at the the retention graph
of a video.
If if I see that my video lookslike retention graph looks like
(13:51):
this, well, it looks, it lookslike people caught the attention
from the first one second, butthen they drop.
So that means my content sucks.
But like if my content graphlooks like this, like more
horizontal, which it should bethe goal, people stay to watch
till the end.
And that that signals are goodcontent.
But most of our graphs look likethis.
(14:13):
So it looks like a slope.
And when you when you're doingthese, like let's do better one
person at a time, uh, you haveto really increase that watch
time.
And or if it's a static post andthen it's like different
metrics, right?
But but we are living in a videoworld, like we're making a video
(14:33):
right now.
So at the end of the day, howlong can you make people watch
that piece of content?
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
And what is the best tip to make people watch longer?
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
It has to be shorter, it has to be the first
five seconds has to be investedso much in like what it looks
like, what what's the title ontop of my head today?
What do I say?
And yeah, like the right now,just a production setup already
catches attention because itlooks so pretty, right?
It's it's beauty.
So things that are really easyto for people to understand, or
(15:05):
if you are an a sport brand, whydo people use athletes in their
videos, right?
It's easier for the brain tounderstand, like, okay, if I see
an athlete in a in my sportbrand, people will have the
association that my brand isassociated with athletes.
Because I sell sport brands,like sports clothes.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Talking about the visual is so important, and I I
try and talk I try and say thisto people because there's some
people wonder why the shortvideos or the long videos on
YouTube aren't doing very well.
And we produce them, and I lookat them and I go in my head
because I'm I don't really wantto tell them because I know it's
not gonna change much, butyou're using a condenser
(15:47):
microphone for one, which is notgood quality, so the sound isn't
great, but mostly you're usinglike a 720p webcam camera, and
your guest is as well, andyou're laughing because you see
it on YouTube.
I did the same thing, but inmost people these days are now
watching YouTube on their TV, soyou blow up to a big 50-inch.
I saw a TV in the shop in theshop the other day, 100-inch TV.
(16:08):
So somebody's watching yourYouTube content on a hundred
inch TV, the content quality isawful.
And this is what we prideourselves on here, and we're
really excited at PsychonPodcast Studio is the aesthetic,
the lighting, the quality of thevideo.
Instantly you see that in ashort video or a long video, and
you can see right away that thequality is much better.
(16:28):
And this is what matters now onYouTube, right?
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah.
I think part of it is obviouslythe production quality because I
mean, you know, podcastingtwenty in 2020 is not the same
as podcasting in 2026.
Like this industry has changed alot, and the expectation of
people to watch a podcast orlisten to a podcast, or even
like just stop and just listento the first second, like it has
(16:52):
to be with the production.
So I will scroll past somethingthat is like just doesn't catch
my my beauty attention, right?
But uh a production like thisreally helps.
But the next step is really likewhat does the person say?
What are the triggering wordsand questions that make a short
(17:14):
form video successful?
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
So, from all these conversations on your podcast,
from all your experience, whatdo businesses need to get right
with content marketing beforethey even start?
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Well, it's marketing at the end of the day is selling
something.
And if you have nothing to sell,it's hard to do in marketing.
So as a business, you alreadyhave to have something working
for you in order to market itbetter.
So it's hard to also marketsomething that everyone else
provides.
(17:47):
So you have to invest in yourproduct or your service more.
Let's say water, right?
Like I'm not doing watercompanies.
We need water and we have todifferentiate ourselves.
So if you, as a business owner,you don't have that mindset how
you are differentiating yourselffrom your competition, and the
marketer will have a very, veryhard time to follow your vision
(18:10):
because you don't have a vision.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
It reminds me of one of the clients we work with to
pharmaceutical marketing.
And one of the things I've heardthem say many times, and I love
it, is the difference betweenPepsi and Coca-Cola is
marketing.
Because at the end of the day,they're both sugary brown, fizzy
water.
It's just which one hasdifferent marketing, makes you
choose which one you drink.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Exactly.
Correct.
And Coca-Cola really won whenthey just like, okay, we're
gonna own Santa Claus.
So see, like even conventionalbrands had invested in like
their how to say today'sspokesperson, avatar, or content
creator, right?
Every brand has a a face ormultiple faces to be safe, but
(18:53):
the best ones only have one.
And and the best ones only haveone that people love.
So I think that's a goodexample.
But you can see that betweenPepsi and Coca-Cola, the
differentiation is there too,because they're always coming up
with different uh flavors anddifferent like features, so
that's a zero calorie or zerosomething, or like they add a
(19:14):
little bit of flavor in there,and that has to come from the
product marketer or productdeveloper or something, and then
the marketer can sell it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
Now, when it comes to content marketing, where do
you see businesses throwingmoney away?
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Hiring the wrong people, obviously.
Like I think that says thenumber one.
When I one of the questions waslike, what sets apart a good
content marketer in my mind,right?
And if you hire someone whonever had a content marketing
experience or someone whodoesn't have the guts to be
controversial, to be to trythings out, I think that's the
(19:54):
biggest money because marketingtakes a long time.
Hiring the wrong people willreally like slow your budget and
slow everything.
SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
You mentioned the word they're controversial.
Where do you draw the linebetween being controversial and
grabbing views, between beingcontroversial and losing
customers?
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Yeah, that's where a good CMO comes in.
That's why that's why you need agood leader on the top to say,
like, okay, this is fun, butlet's draw the line.
So for example, uh Pride Monthis this month, right?
And I'm sure that decades agothis was like a no-no.
But nowadays, i if you will wantto be an inclusive and fun
brand, you have to do somethingfor Pride Month.
(20:36):
And I think there's it has to besome sort of timeline to it.
Like some things work better in2020, some things that work
better in 2026.
And of course, let's just notlet's just assume that we all
know that, you know, bad thingslike nudity and like porn and
stuff.
Like we don't want to beassociated with it in general.
(20:57):
But outside of all these bigoutliers, you need to have a
leader who can draw the line bbetween this.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
And I think of an example from my team because I
say lots of things on my podcastabout Vietnam, discover Vietnam,
and we take those clips and wepost them, and some of them go
viral, and some of them doreally well.
And one recently that did reallywell was I said that basically
Vietnamese women are badass.
Vietnamese women are amazing,don't mess with them.
And then I kind of veered intothe territory of Vietnamese men
(21:25):
are lazy when you go out into acoffee shop in the morning,
you're laughing because you see50 Vietnamese men, no females.
You see them on the constructionsites and they're doing
everything and and all of thisstuff, right?
And so it went really well.
And the comments were largelyvery supportive.
Yep, you got that right, lots ofVietnamese women commenting.
But there was some people thatwere like, no, you're full of
shit, you're that's not true,mostly from Vietnamese men, like
(21:47):
you know, we're not lazy, blah,blah, blah.
And I had to have a discussionwith the team and say, you know,
be careful in the future thatwe're not too controversial
because I don't want to get introuble.
Because at the end of the day,it's my face that's on this,
it's me.
Also, what I say is in anhour-long interview and you're
taking a clip that it might be15 seconds.
(22:08):
And also you see the themetrics.
On average, people are watchingfor three seconds or five
seconds, then they're jumping tothe comments.
So people are making a commenton something I've said for five
seconds out of a one-hour clip.
So just be careful what youchoose for clips, because I
don't want to get in trouble.
And they were amazing, they werelike, We know what you can and
(22:28):
can't get in trouble with.
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
We won't make you say anythingor we won't promote anything
that that's too controversial.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
Correct.
Yes, yes, yes.
I mean this happens in virality.
Like what's I think it's make apros and cons of virality,
right?
Like not first of first andforemost, not every piece of
content goes viral.
People want to be viral, butthen they want the virality
without the consequences.
And that's just it's likewanting a unicorn for also, I
(22:56):
don't know, poops, muffins.
I don't know, like it doesn'texist.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
How often has somebody come to you and said,
We want content that goes viral?
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
Not often, but I think I'm I'm getting to that
point now.
And again, it just has to drawboundaries.
Or if you want to get viral,then you know we I have to post
so much to make it happen.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Some people think they just post one piece of
content and they're gonna go tothe body.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
Yeah, most people do.
Most people say, like, you know,you hire a magic person who will
magically do uh a viral contentfor you.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's just an expectationwhere people, everyone fails.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
It's I I've read it and I've experienced it myself,
and it's you you could post ahundred pieces of content and
you do not know which one willgo viral, but one of them will
blow up and suddenly I mean I'vehad it where I've literally
produced a piece of content withmy wife that's in it, and I've
said to her, Don't worry aboutit, nobody watches these things,
and then it blows up, and it'slike 160,000 views later.
(23:54):
She's like, You told me nobodywas gonna see this.
Like, I didn't think anybodywould.
Because I had no idea.
And I've worked for a majorcorporation here in Vietnam, and
I've heard it time and timeagain where they say, Oh, we're
gonna create some viral content,and you're like, No, no, you
don't you don't create viralcontent, it's not a thing.
And I don't know if that'schanged because that was many
years ago.
Are you still seeing that oryou're not seeing that so much
(24:15):
now in Vietnam?
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
I see that there's a a formula to making something
potentially viral, but it's notguaranteed.
Marketing and anything in lifeis just not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
So you're now on the agency side, digital web
services, DWS.
Has that changed how you viewcontent marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yes.
Being in DWS has been a greatjourney.
How I view content marketing,it's yes, it has to be very
formulated.
I'm I've been in the industryfor a couple of years now, and I
just see that some format, sometitles, some avatars just do
better.
And my job is really to takemyself out of any type of
(24:57):
judgment or bias I have towardsit, and I just like look at the
trend, the data.
And that really changed myperspective, and it's also
changed from a content marketingperspective to just not be
afraid to fail.
Because every single piece ofcontent I put out could have,
you know, in my industry, if Iget like 10,000 views, it's
(25:18):
amazing, right?
But for some industries, if Iget 10k, that's like middle or
not even considerate.
So you have to really like tryhard and and be as concise as
possible.
SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
And if you were to start your podcast again today,
what's the biggest thing youlearned?
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
If I had to start my podcast today, I would come to
Neomokkay's Saigon PodcastStudio and record um day maybe
one or five if I I don't know,it's really intimidating to see
all the lights at first.
But Neil, you're you are sonice.
So I I would definitely come toa place like this with someone
like you.
Of course, I wouldn't do this bymyself.
(25:59):
It's so hard to get into aproduction studio when you
haven't even produced anythingyourself.
So I would I would definitely doin-person planned and yeah, and
and in-person and planned.
That's all.
That's all.
That's all I would do.
But it however it limits thenumber of guests I can have.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
That was not pre-planned answer.
I did not ask you to say that.
So thank you very much.
That is very kind and I doappreciate that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
I love it, but also um one tip, number one tip for
podcasting nowadays is to have aconcept.
What I've done wrong, andhundreds and hundreds of
podcasts, not just myself, donewrong.
It's just you just get on a zoomcall or you just get on a some
video recording software and yourecord, right?
But the best podcast I've seen,they have a concept.
(26:47):
They would sit on a beanbag,they would have a topic, they
would have something specialthat people want to come back
to.
So Joe Rogan has his own likeclassic setup with the road mics
and and his background.
Sure, I think that was a goodentry.
But now if I want to start over,I would be in a very different
(27:07):
setting.
I would somehow link it to mypersonality.
What do I like?
I like dancing, I liketraveling.
So somehow I would have thoseelements, whether it's like a
different destination everytime, or I'm eating food.
I think there's like a new showwhere people are having a
conversation, but they're eatingfood, like not just any food,
(27:30):
but the last meal on earth thatthey would eat.
Like it's such a differentconcept, right?
So you want to have somethingthat sets your set, like your
physical creative set apart.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Love it.
Annie, thank you so much.
This has been amazing, and thankyou for joining me on Vietnam
Content Marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, subscribe everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (28:11):
This episode is hosted by me, Neil Mikai, with
production, editing, and supportfrom the 7 Million Bakes Podcast
team.
Te Huan Ling and Qi.
Thanks for listening.
Follow Vietnam Content Marketingwherever you get your podcasts,
and visit 7 Million BikesPodcast to learn more about the
team behind the show.
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