July 17, 2026 • 32 mins
"Be authentic. If it doesn't feel right inside, don't post it." – Amy Wenham
In this episode, I sat down with Amy Wenham, founder of the Women's Business Network (WBN) in Ho Chi Minh City, to talk about one of my favourite topics—authentic content marketing.
The conversation made me reflect on my own content. We talked about the podcast studio, the countless hours spent setting up lights and cables, and how I'd often forgotten to share the journey behind the finished product. It reminded me that people don't just want to see the final result—they want to understand the work that got you there.
If you're a business owner, marketer, or content creator trying to build a genuine connection with your audience, this episode is packed with practical advice you can start using today.
Key Takeaways:
- How Amy grew the Women's Business Network from just 23 members to more than 900 without paying for advertising.
- Why authentic stories consistently outperform polished, "perfect" content.
- The biggest content marketing mistakes SMEs make and how to avoid them.
- How to use AI without losing your own voice and personality.
- Why podcasting is one of the most powerful tools for creating authentic, long-form content.
Chapters and timestamps:
00:00 – Rapid-fire questions and why authenticity beats viral marketing
04:00 – Why sharing challenges creates stronger engagement than polished content
08:30 – Listening to your community and creating content your audience actually wants
14:00 – The biggest content marketing mistakes SMEs make
20:00 – AI, authenticity, and why your voice still matters
26:00 – Why podcasting is the perfect format for authentic content marketing
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
It's a sweltering Tuesday morning in District 7,
Ho Chi Minh City.
Inside a sleek modern office, adigital marketer sits staring at
a duo monitor setup, her coffeegrowing cold beside her
keyboard.
For the past three hours, she'sbeen logging between a
spreadsheet tracking socialmedia engagement and an open tab
(00:22):
of a generative AI tool.
The brand's feed is filled withimmaculate high-resolution
product photos, crisp Canvatemplates, and perfectly
polished promotional reels.
Every post is grammaticallyflawless and optimized for the
algorithm.
Yet the comment section is aghost town.
(00:46):
The only notification is ageneric comment from a boss.
She hits refresh, hoping for aspike in views, but the metric
barely moves.
It's the classic corporatedilemma.
The content is professional,expensive, and completely
hollow.
Meanwhile, just a few kilometersaway in a bustling district
(01:10):
cafe, an independent smallbusiness owner is having a
completely different mommy.
Her phone is buzzingcontinuously with notifications
from a private Facebook groupshe built from scratch without a
single dollar of ad spend.
She doesn't have a team ofcopywriters or a high-end
production budget.
(01:31):
Instead, an hour ago she posteda raw, unedited photo from a
laptop showing a logisticalmistake that cost her a client
the previous day, along with acandid paragraph about how
difficult the week has been.
By noon, that single imperfectpost will generate three times
the engagement of a standardpromotional announcement.
(01:54):
While the corporate brand spendsthousands trying to look
flawless, the independent ownerhas tapped into the most
valuable currency in moderndigital marketing.
Raw human authenticity.
This stark contrast highlights agrowing crisis across Southeast
Asia's digital landscape.
As artificial intelligence makesit easier than ever to produce
(02:18):
sleek copy and polished visuals,audiences are becoming
profoundly jaded.
Consumers can spot anAI-generated paragraph or a
manufactured corporate scriptfrom a mile away.
And they are actively turningagainst it.
(02:38):
In an era of automatedperfection, the traditional
marketing playbook of presentingan aspirational, flawless facade
is no longer working.
The brands that are thriving arethe ones willing to pull back
the curtain, humanize theirmessage, and show the chaotic,
real-life reality behind thefinished product.
(03:00):
I'm Neil Mackay, the founder of7 Million Bikes Podcast and
Saigon Podcast Studio, and thisis VM Content Marketing.
In this episode, I sit down withAmy Wenham, the founder of the
Women's Business Network.
We explore the whole journey ofbuilding a thriving community
entirely through organic word ofmouth, the hidden traps of
(03:22):
relying too heavily on AI foryour brand's voice, and why
showing your business's realchallenges can triple the
audience engagement.
(03:43):
This episode is sponsored bySaigon Podcast Studio, premium
podcast recording space right inthe heart of District 1 Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(04:04):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Let's start like we do in everyepisode with the rapid fire
questions.
Number one, what is the bestpiece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Be authentic.
If it doesn't feel right inside,don't post it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Number two, worst piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
If you do X, Y, and Z, you will go viral in 30 days.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Next one, what is the only metric that matters to
you?
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Engagement.
I'd rather have a hundredfollowers all engaged on the
piece of content than 10,000that don't react.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
And if somebody was starting next week with zero
budget, what's one piece ofadvice you would give to them?
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Again, just be authentic.
Just post what you know.
Um, make sure you know yourcustomer and what they're
looking for, and just talk tothat.
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Last one, podcasts.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Absolutely great.
I think the the best thing aboutpodcasts now is that you can cut
one big piece of content up intoseveral different pieces for all
different types of social media.
So you're killing sort of 10birds with one stone.
It's brilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Now you built the women's business network mostly
through word of mouth, no big adspend, no big budget.
How did you actually get yourfirst members?
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
I actually had zero budget.
I've not spent a single dollaron marketing.
Um, every single thing has beenthrough um my Facebook group.
The whole concept has come fromcreating a private Facebook
group and then working withother Facebook groups in this
region um to kind of draw peoplein.
So as a brand new, uh as a brandnew business, a brand new group,
(05:47):
I obviously was trying to get intouch with people that had, you
know, and there was groups herethat had a lot more followings,
so it was just commenting inthere to say, you know, any
female business owners thatwould like to meet up for a
coffee.
And it all just organically grewfrom there.
So the group started my veryfirst event.
I had uh 23 people in the group.
Um now we're on over 900 andsomething now, so yeah, all
(06:09):
organic, not a single dollarspent.
So Facebook groups, especiallyin this region, because Facebook
is still I think king in termsof social media.
Um it's a really great tool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
So zero budget, what was your content marketing
strategy back then?
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
Again, I think the flow was obviously having the
Facebook group and andconnecting with other Facebook
groups that were establishedhere.
Um, but then in terms ofstrategy, it was very much just
knowing who the members were andwhat they were looking for and
talking to that.
Like I said, it started.
I only got Facebook, I think,eight months ago, and we
(06:47):
established in 2023.
So it was literally onlyFacebook group and it was doing
polls inside the group.
It was really trying to developthat engagement as much as
possible.
I wasn't bothered about fancyreels or you know, super pretty
assets that I've made on Canvaand things like that.
It really was just doing as muchas I could to encourage
conversation.
Um, events, so create you cancreate events inside the
(07:09):
Facebook group.
So it's very organic like that.
I was really trying to developthat sense of community, but
using this private Facebookgroup.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
And so what did you notice gave the best engagement?
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
I would say the best forms of engagement have always
been the real stories, the stuffthat kind of when it goes wrong,
or you know, the tough parts.
Anytime I've gone into thegroup, I often go live.
So I'll just speak to themembers directly, or I might do
a quick reel or something, orjust a long form post.
Every single time I'm talkingabout a challenge, the response
(07:42):
is just completely differentthan if I'm just sharing
information.
So a lot of the time, you know,you're you're sharing
information about events andabout trainings and workshops.
You don't really get muchengagement from that because
it's just informative.
But when I talk about the thingsthat have gone wrong or the
challenges that the company'shaving that week, me personally,
both as a business owner but aspeople that know me, the
(08:04):
engagement just triples.
It's crazy.
Wow.
People really want thatauthenticity.
It's just everything I do is allusing that word and it it works.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
And we talked about this before, and I I did a small
post recently on our Dallowcommunity, which is a hundred
people or so now, not massive.
But every now and again I'llpost pictures from the studio,
and because we talked about thisrecently, I wrote a post and
then I just thought and Ibasically showed off how we we
got this new setup, and I justhad this thought, I'm just gonna
(08:38):
add one line at the end to sayhow difficult it was.
Because you look at it, and I'mvery much a positive mental
attitude kind of person, like,look at this, this is amazing.
So it's not so natural for me todo that, and I know it has
worked for us in the past, we'vedone it on LinkedIn, people love
transformation stories.
I've shown pictures of me 20 kgslater, look like I'm dying, I'm
(08:59):
literally so thin, and peoplereally respond to that.
So I guess I do know it, but Iforget about it.
And so I did this post pictureof the new setup, and I just had
the thing to remember to say howdifficult it was, and I just
added, looks amazing, took hoursto set up because this again,
once things are finished, and Ialways say this here in here in
the studio as well once thingsare working, and I think it's
(09:22):
the same in everything, it looksso easy, it looks like it took
no time at all.
And I think that's sometimes whypeople don't maybe value as well
what you do.
People always trying to getdiscounts here, they're always
trying to undercut you, getlower prices, which I get, it's
fine.
I'll I I'm Scottish, I'll haveto get a discount as well.
But what people don't see is mesitting on the floor here for
hours figuring out why thecables aren't working, or
figuring out why this won'tattach together, having to get
(09:45):
extra people and friends in toset all of this up.
That I was these black panelsalone, just sticking them on
took hours and hours.
So just added that on, I didnotice I got the most engagement
I'd had in the longest time, waymore than just me saying, Hey,
look at my pretty studio.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
It works because I think people can see the real
that you know, the real life ofit and the reality.
You know, as you say, you've gotyou you show all the good bits
of of the studio and what you'redoing, and it's aspirational to
a lot, but it's a it's out ofreach for a lot of people to be
like, I I couldn't do that.
I don't understand how you don'tthink to understand how you got
there.
But when you actually share thestory of you sitting on the
(10:25):
floor and sorting out cables ortaking hours to set set a
panelling system up, it it kindof humanizes the content.
I think we're all so jaded bycontent in general because
there's just so much.
You're just flooded with itevery second of the day.
And I mean the statistic of ittakes three seconds to either
capture or um, you know, beforgettable.
(10:47):
So capturing that human elementof it always is just you notice
the difference in in reactionsand engagements for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
And I'm I'm laughing right now, and you can see me
smiling, and I'll explain why.
I actually do have a lot ofcontent I probably don't use.
I remember doing a time lapse.
So this big light that you cansee right here, again, looks
super simple.
It's a light.
That took me so long, so longjust to get the shade on, and I
could show you the time lapse.
(11:16):
And it was me because it's likean umbrella lattice, and I could
not figure out how it worked,and I couldn't figure out how to
attach, and I couldn't figureout how to get the thing around
it.
And there's a video of me with atime lapse.
And honestly, I was getting soand the I guess the things
people don't see is me gettingannoyed, me getting angry,
frustrated.
They're like, fuck when it'sjust you should post that.
(11:37):
It looks so simple when it'sfinished, it's just like a light
with a lattice around it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
Well, I think it's not, it's not even it looks so
simple, it's just a light.
It's like people don't thinkwho's built it, it's just a
light in the studio.
But when you you know, youshould post that.
I guarantee you'll get a verygood reaction and be like, This
is the day in my life, guys.
Yeah, and it's taken me hours toset a lamp up.
Like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
And I'd several days like that in the beginning as
well.
So I do love the compliments forthe studio are amazing.
And I do think back to that, andI think I forget sometimes, and
then I'm reminded, man, thefirst few weeks was just me in
here by myself, figuring thingsout, getting all these cables
and everything, and cancontinually getting better.
We always get more stuff, morebackgrounds, more cables, things
(12:19):
like this.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
I think as well for me, like with you know,
obviously with the community.
So my my custom my customer, ifyou will, is the community and
what I provide.
And I always found with that,you know, I think I know what
people want, but it's reallydeveloped over the years of
listening and talking about whatI think's working, you know,
(12:40):
that we've done a lot of things,especially recently in the last
few months, put on differentworkshops and different um
trainings based on feedback thatwe've got from the community
itself.
But then the second we put itup, people don't have time or
you know, so it's alwaysconstantly kind of chopping and
changing and see and seeingwhat, you know, reacting to to
that.
But I think the more you canlisten to your customer and the
(13:03):
more you can listen to your yourcommunity and see what they
want, you know, whether it's a aservice or a product, it doesn't
matter what the actual, youknow, end business is being just
completely dedicated to what youthink your customer needs and
asking those questions back allthe time really helps for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
So you've worked with global and luxury brands
and you know advise SMEs here inVietnam.
What are SMEs doing for contentmarketing?
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
I think honestly, in general, at the moment in this
region, it's I like to saythey're quite transactional.
So if they're a retail brand,for example, they've got this
this range of shoes, let's say,um, and it's very much a here's
a video of the shoes, here's apicture of the shoes.
There's not really much else toit I've noticed.
It's quite I call ittransactional.
(13:52):
This is my product, buy it.
And especially in today's world,you know, my time in luxury
retail, they had millions ofdollars budget to be able to put
in their marketing to get it outthere.
And and they also have 10, 20,30, 100 years of of brand
loyalty.
So any new product that goes outwith a big brand like that, they
can, you know, absolutely umit's a lot easier for them to
(14:14):
sell.
Whereas SMEs, you need to buildthat brand loyalty first.
And I do think it's missed alittle bit here.
It's so when I saytransactional, it's like, here's
my product, buy it, you know,from a from a messaging
perspective on on their socials.
But actually it really needs tobe who's the customer and what
are they looking for?
(14:35):
What's gonna stand your brandout, your shoe brand out from
the others out there.
And it's really developing thatbrand loyalty, which is gonna
which is gonna change the gamefor you.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
So, from your experience, can you give an
example of an SME that you'veseen get content marketing
right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
I wouldn't necessarily any say any
particular sort of business, butone thing I've noticed,
especially in this region, the Fand B industry are nailing their
content marketing at the moment.
You know, whether they're alittle coffee shop in District 7
or whether they're a chain ofrestaurants across the city,
I've seen such a really coolarray of different pieces of
(15:15):
content, whether it's, you know,being creative with their reels
and making, you know, yoursimple cafe suada become this,
you know, absolutely amazingthing that people want to be a
part of.
So I would definitely say as aas a generalization, uh the FB
industry for sure is nailing itat the moment.
So I would definitely, I've donea lot of research myself and
looked at that of how we cankind of tie that in.
(15:37):
It's obviously slightlydifferent because it's a
product-based, you know, they'reselling a coffee or a drink or
something.
But again, that they've they'vereally nailed that
transformational content.
So this is the other thing.
If you've got a product, you'vegot a coffee, just posting a a
picture or a reel of your coyour made coffee on the desk
doesn't actually make it standout.
But the the pieces of contentI've seen where you've got like
(16:00):
the bartender at the back mayyou know shaking up a cocktail
and then it kind of liketime-lapses and like jumps
through, and then all of asudden it's this theatrical
cocktail that's appeared, orother people that are you know,
barristers that are behind, youknow, with the coffee machine
and everything like that.
So it's you're showcasing thetransformation from your drink,
(16:22):
your cafe surda, your cocktail,your food that we all know and
eat and drink every single day.
But showing that before andafter, the FB industry are
really nailing it at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
You've given me such inspiration there because I'm
thinking we can make thiscontent here from I've got
videos from when we moved in,from what it looked like, from
me struggling to put a lighttogether.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Today you should have like a camera that's
literally just setting upvideoing because people don't
know the amount of detail andthe effort that goes in, making
sure that none of the cables aretouched and all of that stuff.
I'm watching today, like I couldnot do it.
I come in and you've got thisperfect studio that's ready to
go.
But seeing what you go throughto get to this amazing studio
(17:07):
makes it much more like real.
And I'm like, okay, I get it.
It's so I'm I'm I'm part of it.
I might be watching it, but Ifeel like I'm part of the
journey, you know.
So if you've got that content,you should definitely before and
afters are a winner.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
You can you can even share uh how you actually saw me
getting frustrated with pullingout a cable.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
I was like, you okay?
You were like, this is megetting angry now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Just for content, I don't get angry ready, either
way they are frustrated at thetop.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
I've never seen you get angry before.
I was like, just that was a verywhip of the cable coming out of
the camera.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
It's like the tiniest little like throw the
cable away like flippantlybecause it wasn't all wanted to
do.
And you made a reaction.
I was like, you know, thatthat's probably as much as
you'll ever see me gettingfrustrated or flustered.
But today was a good example.
Normally, we like if people comein and they just see it perfect.
That's what I want.
I want people to come in andjust have the experience.
You got here, we weren't set upproperly, we weren't ready.
(17:58):
And it's the kind of things.
So what went wrong today was thethree pieces of equipment that
we've never had an issue withbefore, ever in a year, just
wouldn't turn on.
Normally, you we literally justplug them in and they come on.
Like any piece of electricalequipment, suddenly today, doing
the exact same thing we've donea hundred times, yeah, and it
(18:18):
wouldn't turn on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
And no reason for it as well, which is the worst
idea.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
We're switching plugs, we're switching different
things, and we're like, I Istill don't know why it didn't
work.
But thankfully, eventually wegot it to work.
But that was part of the stresswas this should just work.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
But I feel as well, like in terms of the
conversation we're having now,it seems just a lot more rested
and relaxed, you know, becauseit's all we're all kind of in it
together, just getting a bitstressed trying to get it all
done, and now you know theconversation just flows uh you
know, even nicer as well.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
So, where do you think that SMEs are losing
money?
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
I think because they're not investing in
marketing, they're losing moneyeverywhere.
I know that sounds it soundscrazy, but you know, as I said
before, these big brands willspend 30-40% of their budgets,
annual budgets, monthly budgetson marketing their product.
And unfortunately, this isn'tjust here, I've I've seen it a
(19:11):
lot here, but overall SMEs don'twant to spend or don't think
that because they can't see animmediate ROI.
So they're like, well, you know,I can't spend money on my on my
marketing budget to get my brandout there, um, so I'm not going
to.
So they're losing money becausetheir loyal customer can't see
them.
You know, and honestly, you needto shout from the rooftops on a
daily basis to directly to yourcustomer.
(19:34):
I would say there are manybrands here also that don't know
their customer.
They think they do, but or if orif they do know them, they're
not talking to them directly.
They're kind of talking toeverybody and and not reaching
anybody.
So I would say really notunderstanding their customer is
(19:55):
is leaving money on the tablefor sure.
And then with with that notinvesting in their marketing
budget to be able to talk tothat customer.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Now you mentioned at the beginning that authenticity
is so important.
And I know that you've postedthat when you started the
Women's Business Network, thatyou didn't feel authentic.
When did you start to feel likeyour content was actually you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I don't know if there was a particular post.
Uh I think it was more of atransition, but I think it there
must have been a time where Iwas exasperated, I think, with
something and must have justposted something imperfect.
And as I said, the engagement tothat was such a wake-up call to
be like, okay, people don't wantto see this perfect polished
(20:40):
version of Amy.
And I think when I do myin-person events, there is this
sort of profile that I put upbecause I always do a speech, I
always talk, I'm you know,hosting this event.
Um, so I always feel likethere's that element of profile,
I guess, to put.
However, when I'm in theseevents itself, I think that was
(21:03):
the change.
When I I go to these uh events,I host them and I I'm talking to
the community.
And as I said, I always do aspeech to welcome new, we have
newcomers every single month.
So I always sort of give a briefoverview of what WBN is and what
Coffee and Connect is, etc.
And I always, because I've madethe effort to know my community,
I feel like I'm just talking tomy friends.
(21:24):
So I don't feel nervous when I'mtalking in this group setting.
But I think when I was behindthe camera, because it was just
me in my house setting up withmy tripod and everything, and
then I was recording it 15 timesbecause you know, I said
something wrong or I didn't likethe way my face looked in
whatever particular frame.
And then I remember justthinking, like, you don't do
(21:45):
this, you don't stop and startwhen you're in person at these
communities, you just talk.
If you get it wrong, you justlaugh it off.
Like that's one thing I'm quitegood at doing.
I'm like, oh sorry guys, likeprobably waffled a bit long too,
you know, a bit too long then.
So I think when I started tryingto imagine.
Myself when even when I was athome, imagine myself in these in
Coffee and Connector and after Iwas one of these networking
(22:06):
events that I host, I rememberedthat they may not be looking at
my face, but they're looking atme through the camera.
And that was what I thinkchanged a lot, a lot for me for
sure.
But there was such at thebeginning this feeling of can't
get it wrong, I'm the face ofWBN.
And I don't like saying thatbecause I don't, WBN is bigger
than me.
But at the beginning, it reliedon me to be really present and
(22:30):
really there.
And it shifted into somethingelse now.
But um yeah, I feel there waslike I had an expectation of
myself to act a certain way andto be a certain way.
But I was never really doingthat in person.
People knew me and I waslaughing and it was very
informal, and I always promotethis sort of non-corporate
stuffy.
We don't do that.
(22:50):
You know, it's like, come on in,bring your kids if you can't get
a babysitter, like come come foran hour, whatever.
So when I started to rememberthat when I was at home,
creating that content, whetherit was me talking or whether it
was creating an asset orwhatever, you know, real or
whatever, it it changed for forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Are we in danger right now of losing that
authenticity with the rise ofAI?
Yes, because I know I've createdposts obviously using AI, and
you give it a prompt orwhatever, and it comes back, and
I I've literally written inthat's way too salesy.
Like I don't talk like that, andyou have to be like do it in my
voice.
And even then, sometimes I'vejust scrapped it and been like,
(23:30):
I'm just gonna write it myself.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
I'm right at the beginning.
One thing AI is good for isgiving you copy for sure.
Like if you don't know, ifyou're not very good at writing,
it is great for that, but it isso insincere, it's so
inauthentic.
You know, that it the I meanit's ev I can read AI from a
mile off now in terms of thecopy that you get.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
And we can see it as well when you see a poster now,
you're like, oh yeah, slop.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Literally.
And I think there's only so muchprompting you can ask talk more
like me and talk more like ahuman.
It's not built like that.
It's built to provide copy.
And the other thing as well, Iwas get I was spending so much
time for a long time gettingfrustrated that AI wasn't giving
me what I wanted.
It's like, you're not talkinglike me.
And I'm like, well, why wouldit?
It's just it's you know, it's anAI chatbot.
(24:19):
So the minute I then startedputting my own text and just
saying, just make thisgrammatically correct.
Because my I my challenge is mygrammar isn't great when I'm
writing.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:28):
How many native speakers are?
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
I read people's hair and I'm like, oh, I should be
ashamed of myself.
But so I put all of that in.
I'm like, just make it concise.
Keep it in my um in my ownvoice, uh, in terms of because
I've already given it to you.
And I think that is where a lotof people are getting it's
things are starting to get lostin terms of um content marketing
now, especially because it'speople are getting lazy.
(24:52):
They're like, oh, just give itto ChatGPT or give it to Gemini,
whoever whoever you use, and itspills out this stuff, and then
you're reading it and you'relike another thing, you know,
it's gone too far past it now.
And that's where authenticity isbeing lost.
You're just you're you'rerelying on this system, which is
a great tool.
Don't get me wrong, I use itevery day.
(25:13):
It's a great tool, but itshouldn't replace your voice,
and that is what is definitelyhappening at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
So if you do make the leap to not using AI, you're
gonna be your authentic self,but you don't want to be
performative.
And I know I've been guilty ofthat.
I always worry about that.
Am I putting this on?
Am I faking it?
What's the balance between doingan authentic post and not being
performative?
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
I mean, there's different tools you can use to
help you with that because a lotof people feel like I need to
have my script in front of me,especially if you're doing a
talking reel, for example, andyou're giving information.
You know, it's it's hard becauseyou're not used to necessarily
being in front of the camera andyou know, you keeping looking at
notes and everything like that.
People want to see the humanelement.
So you looking at the screen andthen looking down at your notes
(25:59):
to see what you're writing isabsolutely fine.
And there's other tools that youcan use, other apps and programs
that can help you with it.
Here's one thing that I always Ihave to remind myself every day,
but I'm pretty good atremembering now.
People are far too worried aboutwhat they're thinking of
themselves to worry about whatthey think of you.
So all of that stress that youhave about performing and being
(26:22):
a certain way, looking a certainway and and articulating
yourself, people don't see it.
They they get they're toowrapped up in their own stuff.
So as long as you can keepremembering that, you'll start
to care less in of making itlook perfect and performing.
And that's really, really helpedme uh along along the way over
(26:45):
the years, even in my you know,corporate luxury retail days.
I was like, these guys,everyone's just far too busy
thinking about themselves.
Like we're all selfish beings,like we're too b and it it
proves that because you're tooworried about being performative
and and being right and makingthis piece of content perfect,
and your customers just won'tsee it.
(27:06):
Like they're just not going tosee it at all.
So don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
So, how can a podcast fit into that style of
content marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
So, for me, what what I love about podcasting is
the authenticity of it.
You know, yes, you've got theediting skills and you've got
all of that that side of things,but the I think that's why it's
been so popular as a is it agenre?
Don't even know if you call it agenre a medium.
Um, because it encouragesauthentic talk, it encourages
information, you know, it's nothere's my presentation, look at
(27:38):
what's happening.
It's it's an exchange ofconversation, or even if you're
just doing one on your own,you're talking and it's a lot
less formal.
And I think um to me, that iswhat content needs to be now.
Like I say, I've said the wordso many times today, the word
authenticity is like my youknow, my mantra.
(27:59):
Um, but podcasting does that.
You know, you're sitting havinga conversation, like I say,
whether it's an interview styleand you're just having a chat,
you know, it might be an hour,it might be two, it might be
half an hour, but you're justhaving like an honest,
informative conversation withsomeone.
But then when you go, from amarketing perspective, you've
got dozens of touch points to beable to get your product, get
(28:23):
your product, get your servicein front of other people in
these little little snippets andlonger forms.
You know, there's different waysthat you can do it.
And one thing I just lovepodcasting is all about talking
and your authentic self, whetheryou are representing a business
or whether it you'rerepresenting yourself.
You know, I think with with whatyou do, it's your business, but
(28:44):
it's you, and people tune in tohear what you have to say, you
know, and then it all ties inwith your brand.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
And I think this is why podcasting for me is much,
much better than something likeTED Talks, right?
TED Talks were amazing, they'restill amazing, but they are very
performative.
Like I know I've met people whoare TED Talk coaches, yeah, and
they will coach every part ofyour talk, your presentation,
and help you present it to TEDTalks so that then they pick
(29:13):
you, and then what you give onstage is a performance, and it's
fine.
You maybe have some nugget ofwisdom that you want to share
with somebody, but it's far froman authentic conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Well, it's like a play, you know, you're almost
like an act, you're not anactor, but you almost are.
You're sitting there to provideinformation about whatever the
topic is.
Um but there's no that thattwo-way, you know, a load of
people come to watch, andthere's one person talking, and
there's no room for, you know,necessarily that exchange.
Podcasting is all about exchangeof energy, exchange of
(29:46):
information, and that's whatmakes it so desirable, I think,
and it should be part ofeverybody's marketing content
strategy, especially now as it'sgrowing.
So, yeah, that's the great thingabout it.
It literally does all the heavylifting for you.
And all you're doing is talkingabout the thing that you love,
which is your business or yourproduct or your service.
And we all love talking aboutthings that we love, right?
(30:08):
And especially your business,it's like a child half the time.
You put so much effort andenergy and and tears, blood,
sweat, and into it.
So to be able to talk about it,you love to, you know.
I love talking about WBN at anyopportunity I can.
Um and being able to do it in anauthentic exchange of
information way, like this, forexample, just takes that
(30:31):
performance out and it justkeeps it humble and it keeps it
realistic and authentic.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And so when you start the WBN podcast, which I
know is coming soon, who is yourideal guest?
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
My members, for sure, to start with.
Um you know, they've built it.
Um the whole point of WBN is togive these small businesses a a
platform to to to support withtheir own marketing.
So definitely my my start withmy community first.
But I also want to speak to itwon't just obviously the main
(31:05):
focus will be the women in thisthis region, but I want to be
able to speak to all people thathave got a good story to tell
about their time in business,especially here in in Ho Chi
Minh.
Um But for me the podcast willbe a way to support the growth
of the community, um, but alsoto support the growth of the
members inside.
(31:26):
It's their own, you know, theycan come and join and they've
got their own um marketingstrategy from it and all their
content for them as well.
And that was exactly what WBNwas built on is providing
resources and support and placesfor women that are either just
setting up, have set up, or arescaling, even women that are in
corporate here that are lookingto, you know, build their
(31:48):
profile, etc.
It is a space, that's whatthat's what WBN is about.
And the podcast, WBN Podcastwill just be an extension of
that.
And we're actually going to begiving them content to use,
which doesn't happen very oftenhere.
SPEAKER_00 (32:00):
So awesome.
Well, Amy, all the best with thefuture of WBN and the WBN
podcast, which I'm excited foryou to get started.
And thank you for joining us onVietnam Content Marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
Thank you for having me.
It's a sweltering Tuesday morning in District 7,
Ho Chi Minh City.
Inside a sleek modern office, adigital marketer sits staring at
a duo monitor setup, her coffeegrowing cold beside her
keyboard.
For the past three hours, she'sbeen logging between a
spreadsheet tracking socialmedia engagement and an open tab
(00:22):
of a generative AI tool.
The brand's feed is filled withimmaculate high-resolution
product photos, crisp Canvatemplates, and perfectly
polished promotional reels.
Every post is grammaticallyflawless and optimized for the
algorithm.
Yet the comment section is aghost town.
(00:46):
The only notification is ageneric comment from a boss.
She hits refresh, hoping for aspike in views, but the metric
barely moves.
It's the classic corporatedilemma.
The content is professional,expensive, and completely
hollow.
Meanwhile, just a few kilometersaway in a bustling district
(01:10):
cafe, an independent smallbusiness owner is having a
completely different mommy.
Her phone is buzzingcontinuously with notifications
from a private Facebook groupshe built from scratch without a
single dollar of ad spend.
She doesn't have a team ofcopywriters or a high-end
production budget.
(01:31):
Instead, an hour ago she posteda raw, unedited photo from a
laptop showing a logisticalmistake that cost her a client
the previous day, along with acandid paragraph about how
difficult the week has been.
By noon, that single imperfectpost will generate three times
the engagement of a standardpromotional announcement.
(01:54):
While the corporate brand spendsthousands trying to look
flawless, the independent ownerhas tapped into the most
valuable currency in moderndigital marketing.
Raw human authenticity.
This stark contrast highlights agrowing crisis across Southeast
Asia's digital landscape.
As artificial intelligence makesit easier than ever to produce
(02:18):
sleek copy and polished visuals,audiences are becoming
profoundly jaded.
Consumers can spot anAI-generated paragraph or a
manufactured corporate scriptfrom a mile away.
And they are actively turningagainst it.
(02:38):
In an era of automatedperfection, the traditional
marketing playbook of presentingan aspirational, flawless facade
is no longer working.
The brands that are thriving arethe ones willing to pull back
the curtain, humanize theirmessage, and show the chaotic,
real-life reality behind thefinished product.
(03:00):
I'm Neil Mackay, the founder of7 Million Bikes Podcast and
Saigon Podcast Studio, and thisis VM Content Marketing.
In this episode, I sit down withAmy Wenham, the founder of the
Women's Business Network.
We explore the whole journey ofbuilding a thriving community
entirely through organic word ofmouth, the hidden traps of
(03:22):
relying too heavily on AI foryour brand's voice, and why
showing your business's realchallenges can triple the
audience engagement.
(03:43):
This episode is sponsored bySaigon Podcast Studio, premium
podcast recording space right inthe heart of District 1 Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(04:04):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Let's start like we do in everyepisode with the rapid fire
questions.
Number one, what is the bestpiece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Be authentic.
If it doesn't feel right inside,don't post it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Number two, worst piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given.
SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
If you do X, Y, and Z, you will go viral in 30 days.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Next one, what is the only metric that matters to
you?
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Engagement.
I'd rather have a hundredfollowers all engaged on the
piece of content than 10,000that don't react.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
And if somebody was starting next week with zero
budget, what's one piece ofadvice you would give to them?
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Again, just be authentic.
Just post what you know.
Um, make sure you know yourcustomer and what they're
looking for, and just talk tothat.
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
Last one, podcasts.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Absolutely great.
I think the the best thing aboutpodcasts now is that you can cut
one big piece of content up intoseveral different pieces for all
different types of social media.
So you're killing sort of 10birds with one stone.
It's brilliant.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Now you built the women's business network mostly
through word of mouth, no big adspend, no big budget.
How did you actually get yourfirst members?
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
I actually had zero budget.
I've not spent a single dollaron marketing.
Um, every single thing has beenthrough um my Facebook group.
The whole concept has come fromcreating a private Facebook
group and then working withother Facebook groups in this
region um to kind of draw peoplein.
So as a brand new, uh as a brandnew business, a brand new group,
(05:47):
I obviously was trying to get intouch with people that had, you
know, and there was groups herethat had a lot more followings,
so it was just commenting inthere to say, you know, any
female business owners thatwould like to meet up for a
coffee.
And it all just organically grewfrom there.
So the group started my veryfirst event.
I had uh 23 people in the group.
Um now we're on over 900 andsomething now, so yeah, all
(06:09):
organic, not a single dollarspent.
So Facebook groups, especiallyin this region, because Facebook
is still I think king in termsof social media.
Um it's a really great tool.
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
So zero budget, what was your content marketing
strategy back then?
SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
Again, I think the flow was obviously having the
Facebook group and andconnecting with other Facebook
groups that were establishedhere.
Um, but then in terms ofstrategy, it was very much just
knowing who the members were andwhat they were looking for and
talking to that.
Like I said, it started.
I only got Facebook, I think,eight months ago, and we
(06:47):
established in 2023.
So it was literally onlyFacebook group and it was doing
polls inside the group.
It was really trying to developthat engagement as much as
possible.
I wasn't bothered about fancyreels or you know, super pretty
assets that I've made on Canvaand things like that.
It really was just doing as muchas I could to encourage
conversation.
Um, events, so create you cancreate events inside the
(07:09):
Facebook group.
So it's very organic like that.
I was really trying to developthat sense of community, but
using this private Facebookgroup.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
And so what did you notice gave the best engagement?
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
I would say the best forms of engagement have always
been the real stories, the stuffthat kind of when it goes wrong,
or you know, the tough parts.
Anytime I've gone into thegroup, I often go live.
So I'll just speak to themembers directly, or I might do
a quick reel or something, orjust a long form post.
Every single time I'm talkingabout a challenge, the response
(07:42):
is just completely differentthan if I'm just sharing
information.
So a lot of the time, you know,you're you're sharing
information about events andabout trainings and workshops.
You don't really get muchengagement from that because
it's just informative.
But when I talk about the thingsthat have gone wrong or the
challenges that the company'shaving that week, me personally,
both as a business owner but aspeople that know me, the
(08:04):
engagement just triples.
It's crazy.
Wow.
People really want thatauthenticity.
It's just everything I do is allusing that word and it it works.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
And we talked about this before, and I I did a small
post recently on our Dallowcommunity, which is a hundred
people or so now, not massive.
But every now and again I'llpost pictures from the studio,
and because we talked about thisrecently, I wrote a post and
then I just thought and Ibasically showed off how we we
got this new setup, and I justhad this thought, I'm just gonna
(08:38):
add one line at the end to sayhow difficult it was.
Because you look at it, and I'mvery much a positive mental
attitude kind of person, like,look at this, this is amazing.
So it's not so natural for me todo that, and I know it has
worked for us in the past, we'vedone it on LinkedIn, people love
transformation stories.
I've shown pictures of me 20 kgslater, look like I'm dying, I'm
(08:59):
literally so thin, and peoplereally respond to that.
So I guess I do know it, but Iforget about it.
And so I did this post pictureof the new setup, and I just had
the thing to remember to say howdifficult it was, and I just
added, looks amazing, took hoursto set up because this again,
once things are finished, and Ialways say this here in here in
the studio as well once thingsare working, and I think it's
(09:22):
the same in everything, it looksso easy, it looks like it took
no time at all.
And I think that's sometimes whypeople don't maybe value as well
what you do.
People always trying to getdiscounts here, they're always
trying to undercut you, getlower prices, which I get, it's
fine.
I'll I I'm Scottish, I'll haveto get a discount as well.
But what people don't see is mesitting on the floor here for
hours figuring out why thecables aren't working, or
figuring out why this won'tattach together, having to get
(09:45):
extra people and friends in toset all of this up.
That I was these black panelsalone, just sticking them on
took hours and hours.
So just added that on, I didnotice I got the most engagement
I'd had in the longest time, waymore than just me saying, Hey,
look at my pretty studio.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
It works because I think people can see the real
that you know, the real life ofit and the reality.
You know, as you say, you've gotyou you show all the good bits
of of the studio and what you'redoing, and it's aspirational to
a lot, but it's a it's out ofreach for a lot of people to be
like, I I couldn't do that.
I don't understand how you don'tthink to understand how you got
there.
But when you actually share thestory of you sitting on the
(10:25):
floor and sorting out cables ortaking hours to set set a
panelling system up, it it kindof humanizes the content.
I think we're all so jaded bycontent in general because
there's just so much.
You're just flooded with itevery second of the day.
And I mean the statistic of ittakes three seconds to either
capture or um, you know, beforgettable.
(10:47):
So capturing that human elementof it always is just you notice
the difference in in reactionsand engagements for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
And I'm I'm laughing right now, and you can see me
smiling, and I'll explain why.
I actually do have a lot ofcontent I probably don't use.
I remember doing a time lapse.
So this big light that you cansee right here, again, looks
super simple.
It's a light.
That took me so long, so longjust to get the shade on, and I
could show you the time lapse.
(11:16):
And it was me because it's likean umbrella lattice, and I could
not figure out how it worked,and I couldn't figure out how to
attach, and I couldn't figureout how to get the thing around
it.
And there's a video of me with atime lapse.
And honestly, I was getting soand the I guess the things
people don't see is me gettingannoyed, me getting angry,
frustrated.
They're like, fuck when it'sjust you should post that.
(11:37):
It looks so simple when it'sfinished, it's just like a light
with a lattice around it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
Well, I think it's not, it's not even it looks so
simple, it's just a light.
It's like people don't thinkwho's built it, it's just a
light in the studio.
But when you you know, youshould post that.
I guarantee you'll get a verygood reaction and be like, This
is the day in my life, guys.
Yeah, and it's taken me hours toset a lamp up.
Like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
And I'd several days like that in the beginning as
well.
So I do love the compliments forthe studio are amazing.
And I do think back to that, andI think I forget sometimes, and
then I'm reminded, man, thefirst few weeks was just me in
here by myself, figuring thingsout, getting all these cables
and everything, and cancontinually getting better.
We always get more stuff, morebackgrounds, more cables, things
(12:19):
like this.
Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
I think as well for me, like with you know,
obviously with the community.
So my my custom my customer, ifyou will, is the community and
what I provide.
And I always found with that,you know, I think I know what
people want, but it's reallydeveloped over the years of
listening and talking about whatI think's working, you know,
(12:40):
that we've done a lot of things,especially recently in the last
few months, put on differentworkshops and different um
trainings based on feedback thatwe've got from the community
itself.
But then the second we put itup, people don't have time or
you know, so it's alwaysconstantly kind of chopping and
changing and see and seeingwhat, you know, reacting to to
that.
But I think the more you canlisten to your customer and the
(13:03):
more you can listen to your yourcommunity and see what they
want, you know, whether it's a aservice or a product, it doesn't
matter what the actual, youknow, end business is being just
completely dedicated to what youthink your customer needs and
asking those questions back allthe time really helps for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
So you've worked with global and luxury brands
and you know advise SMEs here inVietnam.
What are SMEs doing for contentmarketing?
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
I think honestly, in general, at the moment in this
region, it's I like to saythey're quite transactional.
So if they're a retail brand,for example, they've got this
this range of shoes, let's say,um, and it's very much a here's
a video of the shoes, here's apicture of the shoes.
There's not really much else toit I've noticed.
It's quite I call ittransactional.
(13:52):
This is my product, buy it.
And especially in today's world,you know, my time in luxury
retail, they had millions ofdollars budget to be able to put
in their marketing to get it outthere.
And and they also have 10, 20,30, 100 years of of brand
loyalty.
So any new product that goes outwith a big brand like that, they
can, you know, absolutely umit's a lot easier for them to
(14:14):
sell.
Whereas SMEs, you need to buildthat brand loyalty first.
And I do think it's missed alittle bit here.
It's so when I saytransactional, it's like, here's
my product, buy it, you know,from a from a messaging
perspective on on their socials.
But actually it really needs tobe who's the customer and what
are they looking for?
(14:35):
What's gonna stand your brandout, your shoe brand out from
the others out there.
And it's really developing thatbrand loyalty, which is gonna
which is gonna change the gamefor you.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
So, from your experience, can you give an
example of an SME that you'veseen get content marketing
right?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
I wouldn't necessarily any say any
particular sort of business, butone thing I've noticed,
especially in this region, the Fand B industry are nailing their
content marketing at the moment.
You know, whether they're alittle coffee shop in District 7
or whether they're a chain ofrestaurants across the city,
I've seen such a really coolarray of different pieces of
(15:15):
content, whether it's, you know,being creative with their reels
and making, you know, yoursimple cafe suada become this,
you know, absolutely amazingthing that people want to be a
part of.
So I would definitely say as aas a generalization, uh the FB
industry for sure is nailing itat the moment.
So I would definitely, I've donea lot of research myself and
looked at that of how we cankind of tie that in.
(15:37):
It's obviously slightlydifferent because it's a
product-based, you know, they'reselling a coffee or a drink or
something.
But again, that they've they'vereally nailed that
transformational content.
So this is the other thing.
If you've got a product, you'vegot a coffee, just posting a a
picture or a reel of your coyour made coffee on the desk
doesn't actually make it standout.
But the the pieces of contentI've seen where you've got like
(16:00):
the bartender at the back mayyou know shaking up a cocktail
and then it kind of liketime-lapses and like jumps
through, and then all of asudden it's this theatrical
cocktail that's appeared, orother people that are you know,
barristers that are behind, youknow, with the coffee machine
and everything like that.
So it's you're showcasing thetransformation from your drink,
(16:22):
your cafe surda, your cocktail,your food that we all know and
eat and drink every single day.
But showing that before andafter, the FB industry are
really nailing it at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
You've given me such inspiration there because I'm
thinking we can make thiscontent here from I've got
videos from when we moved in,from what it looked like, from
me struggling to put a lighttogether.
SPEAKER_01 (16:43):
Today you should have like a camera that's
literally just setting upvideoing because people don't
know the amount of detail andthe effort that goes in, making
sure that none of the cables aretouched and all of that stuff.
I'm watching today, like I couldnot do it.
I come in and you've got thisperfect studio that's ready to
go.
But seeing what you go throughto get to this amazing studio
(17:07):
makes it much more like real.
And I'm like, okay, I get it.
It's so I'm I'm I'm part of it.
I might be watching it, but Ifeel like I'm part of the
journey, you know.
So if you've got that content,you should definitely before and
afters are a winner.
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
You can you can even share uh how you actually saw me
getting frustrated with pullingout a cable.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
I was like, you okay?
You were like, this is megetting angry now.
SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
Just for content, I don't get angry ready, either
way they are frustrated at thetop.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
I've never seen you get angry before.
I was like, just that was a verywhip of the cable coming out of
the camera.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
It's like the tiniest little like throw the
cable away like flippantlybecause it wasn't all wanted to
do.
And you made a reaction.
I was like, you know, thatthat's probably as much as
you'll ever see me gettingfrustrated or flustered.
But today was a good example.
Normally, we like if people comein and they just see it perfect.
That's what I want.
I want people to come in andjust have the experience.
You got here, we weren't set upproperly, we weren't ready.
(17:58):
And it's the kind of things.
So what went wrong today was thethree pieces of equipment that
we've never had an issue withbefore, ever in a year, just
wouldn't turn on.
Normally, you we literally justplug them in and they come on.
Like any piece of electricalequipment, suddenly today, doing
the exact same thing we've donea hundred times, yeah, and it
(18:18):
wouldn't turn on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
And no reason for it as well, which is the worst
idea.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
We're switching plugs, we're switching different
things, and we're like, I Istill don't know why it didn't
work.
But thankfully, eventually wegot it to work.
But that was part of the stresswas this should just work.
SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
But I feel as well, like in terms of the
conversation we're having now,it seems just a lot more rested
and relaxed, you know, becauseit's all we're all kind of in it
together, just getting a bitstressed trying to get it all
done, and now you know theconversation just flows uh you
know, even nicer as well.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
So, where do you think that SMEs are losing
money?
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
I think because they're not investing in
marketing, they're losing moneyeverywhere.
I know that sounds it soundscrazy, but you know, as I said
before, these big brands willspend 30-40% of their budgets,
annual budgets, monthly budgetson marketing their product.
And unfortunately, this isn'tjust here, I've I've seen it a
(19:11):
lot here, but overall SMEs don'twant to spend or don't think
that because they can't see animmediate ROI.
So they're like, well, you know,I can't spend money on my on my
marketing budget to get my brandout there, um, so I'm not going
to.
So they're losing money becausetheir loyal customer can't see
them.
You know, and honestly, you needto shout from the rooftops on a
daily basis to directly to yourcustomer.
(19:34):
I would say there are manybrands here also that don't know
their customer.
They think they do, but or if orif they do know them, they're
not talking to them directly.
They're kind of talking toeverybody and and not reaching
anybody.
So I would say really notunderstanding their customer is
(19:55):
is leaving money on the tablefor sure.
And then with with that notinvesting in their marketing
budget to be able to talk tothat customer.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Now you mentioned at the beginning that authenticity
is so important.
And I know that you've postedthat when you started the
Women's Business Network, thatyou didn't feel authentic.
When did you start to feel likeyour content was actually you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I don't know if there was a particular post.
Uh I think it was more of atransition, but I think it there
must have been a time where Iwas exasperated, I think, with
something and must have justposted something imperfect.
And as I said, the engagement tothat was such a wake-up call to
be like, okay, people don't wantto see this perfect polished
(20:40):
version of Amy.
And I think when I do myin-person events, there is this
sort of profile that I put upbecause I always do a speech, I
always talk, I'm you know,hosting this event.
Um, so I always feel likethere's that element of profile,
I guess, to put.
However, when I'm in theseevents itself, I think that was
(21:03):
the change.
When I I go to these uh events,I host them and I I'm talking to
the community.
And as I said, I always do aspeech to welcome new, we have
newcomers every single month.
So I always sort of give a briefoverview of what WBN is and what
Coffee and Connect is, etc.
And I always, because I've madethe effort to know my community,
I feel like I'm just talking tomy friends.
(21:24):
So I don't feel nervous when I'mtalking in this group setting.
But I think when I was behindthe camera, because it was just
me in my house setting up withmy tripod and everything, and
then I was recording it 15 timesbecause you know, I said
something wrong or I didn't likethe way my face looked in
whatever particular frame.
And then I remember justthinking, like, you don't do
(21:45):
this, you don't stop and startwhen you're in person at these
communities, you just talk.
If you get it wrong, you justlaugh it off.
Like that's one thing I'm quitegood at doing.
I'm like, oh sorry guys, likeprobably waffled a bit long too,
you know, a bit too long then.
So I think when I started tryingto imagine.
Myself when even when I was athome, imagine myself in these in
Coffee and Connector and after Iwas one of these networking
(22:06):
events that I host, I rememberedthat they may not be looking at
my face, but they're looking atme through the camera.
And that was what I thinkchanged a lot, a lot for me for
sure.
But there was such at thebeginning this feeling of can't
get it wrong, I'm the face ofWBN.
And I don't like saying thatbecause I don't, WBN is bigger
than me.
But at the beginning, it reliedon me to be really present and
(22:30):
really there.
And it shifted into somethingelse now.
But um yeah, I feel there waslike I had an expectation of
myself to act a certain way andto be a certain way.
But I was never really doingthat in person.
People knew me and I waslaughing and it was very
informal, and I always promotethis sort of non-corporate
stuffy.
We don't do that.
(22:50):
You know, it's like, come on in,bring your kids if you can't get
a babysitter, like come come foran hour, whatever.
So when I started to rememberthat when I was at home,
creating that content, whetherit was me talking or whether it
was creating an asset orwhatever, you know, real or
whatever, it it changed for forsure.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Are we in danger right now of losing that
authenticity with the rise ofAI?
Yes, because I know I've createdposts obviously using AI, and
you give it a prompt orwhatever, and it comes back, and
I I've literally written inthat's way too salesy.
Like I don't talk like that, andyou have to be like do it in my
voice.
And even then, sometimes I'vejust scrapped it and been like,
(23:30):
I'm just gonna write it myself.
SPEAKER_01 (23:32):
I'm right at the beginning.
One thing AI is good for isgiving you copy for sure.
Like if you don't know, ifyou're not very good at writing,
it is great for that, but it isso insincere, it's so
inauthentic.
You know, that it the I meanit's ev I can read AI from a
mile off now in terms of thecopy that you get.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
And we can see it as well when you see a poster now,
you're like, oh yeah, slop.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Literally.
And I think there's only so muchprompting you can ask talk more
like me and talk more like ahuman.
It's not built like that.
It's built to provide copy.
And the other thing as well, Iwas get I was spending so much
time for a long time gettingfrustrated that AI wasn't giving
me what I wanted.
It's like, you're not talkinglike me.
And I'm like, well, why wouldit?
It's just it's you know, it's anAI chatbot.
(24:19):
So the minute I then startedputting my own text and just
saying, just make thisgrammatically correct.
Because my I my challenge is mygrammar isn't great when I'm
writing.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:28):
How many native speakers are?
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
I read people's hair and I'm like, oh, I should be
ashamed of myself.
But so I put all of that in.
I'm like, just make it concise.
Keep it in my um in my ownvoice, uh, in terms of because
I've already given it to you.
And I think that is where a lotof people are getting it's
things are starting to get lostin terms of um content marketing
now, especially because it'speople are getting lazy.
(24:52):
They're like, oh, just give itto ChatGPT or give it to Gemini,
whoever whoever you use, and itspills out this stuff, and then
you're reading it and you'relike another thing, you know,
it's gone too far past it now.
And that's where authenticity isbeing lost.
You're just you're you'rerelying on this system, which is
a great tool.
Don't get me wrong, I use itevery day.
(25:13):
It's a great tool, but itshouldn't replace your voice,
and that is what is definitelyhappening at the moment.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
So if you do make the leap to not using AI, you're
gonna be your authentic self,but you don't want to be
performative.
And I know I've been guilty ofthat.
I always worry about that.
Am I putting this on?
Am I faking it?
What's the balance between doingan authentic post and not being
performative?
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
I mean, there's different tools you can use to
help you with that because a lotof people feel like I need to
have my script in front of me,especially if you're doing a
talking reel, for example, andyou're giving information.
You know, it's it's hard becauseyou're not used to necessarily
being in front of the camera andyou know, you keeping looking at
notes and everything like that.
People want to see the humanelement.
So you looking at the screen andthen looking down at your notes
(25:59):
to see what you're writing isabsolutely fine.
And there's other tools that youcan use, other apps and programs
that can help you with it.
Here's one thing that I always Ihave to remind myself every day,
but I'm pretty good atremembering now.
People are far too worried aboutwhat they're thinking of
themselves to worry about whatthey think of you.
So all of that stress that youhave about performing and being
(26:22):
a certain way, looking a certainway and and articulating
yourself, people don't see it.
They they get they're toowrapped up in their own stuff.
So as long as you can keepremembering that, you'll start
to care less in of making itlook perfect and performing.
And that's really, really helpedme uh along along the way over
(26:45):
the years, even in my you know,corporate luxury retail days.
I was like, these guys,everyone's just far too busy
thinking about themselves.
Like we're all selfish beings,like we're too b and it it
proves that because you're tooworried about being performative
and and being right and makingthis piece of content perfect,
and your customers just won'tsee it.
(27:06):
Like they're just not going tosee it at all.
So don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
So, how can a podcast fit into that style of
content marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
So, for me, what what I love about podcasting is
the authenticity of it.
You know, yes, you've got theediting skills and you've got
all of that that side of things,but the I think that's why it's
been so popular as a is it agenre?
Don't even know if you call it agenre a medium.
Um, because it encouragesauthentic talk, it encourages
information, you know, it's nothere's my presentation, look at
(27:38):
what's happening.
It's it's an exchange ofconversation, or even if you're
just doing one on your own,you're talking and it's a lot
less formal.
And I think um to me, that iswhat content needs to be now.
Like I say, I've said the wordso many times today, the word
authenticity is like my youknow, my mantra.
(27:59):
Um, but podcasting does that.
You know, you're sitting havinga conversation, like I say,
whether it's an interview styleand you're just having a chat,
you know, it might be an hour,it might be two, it might be
half an hour, but you're justhaving like an honest,
informative conversation withsomeone.
But then when you go, from amarketing perspective, you've
got dozens of touch points to beable to get your product, get
(28:23):
your product, get your servicein front of other people in
these little little snippets andlonger forms.
You know, there's different waysthat you can do it.
And one thing I just lovepodcasting is all about talking
and your authentic self, whetheryou are representing a business
or whether it you'rerepresenting yourself.
You know, I think with with whatyou do, it's your business, but
(28:44):
it's you, and people tune in tohear what you have to say, you
know, and then it all ties inwith your brand.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
And I think this is why podcasting for me is much,
much better than something likeTED Talks, right?
TED Talks were amazing, they'restill amazing, but they are very
performative.
Like I know I've met people whoare TED Talk coaches, yeah, and
they will coach every part ofyour talk, your presentation,
and help you present it to TEDTalks so that then they pick
(29:13):
you, and then what you give onstage is a performance, and it's
fine.
You maybe have some nugget ofwisdom that you want to share
with somebody, but it's far froman authentic conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Well, it's like a play, you know, you're almost
like an act, you're not anactor, but you almost are.
You're sitting there to provideinformation about whatever the
topic is.
Um but there's no that thattwo-way, you know, a load of
people come to watch, andthere's one person talking, and
there's no room for, you know,necessarily that exchange.
Podcasting is all about exchangeof energy, exchange of
(29:46):
information, and that's whatmakes it so desirable, I think,
and it should be part ofeverybody's marketing content
strategy, especially now as it'sgrowing.
So, yeah, that's the great thingabout it.
It literally does all the heavylifting for you.
And all you're doing is talkingabout the thing that you love,
which is your business or yourproduct or your service.
And we all love talking aboutthings that we love, right?
(30:08):
And especially your business,it's like a child half the time.
You put so much effort andenergy and and tears, blood,
sweat, and into it.
So to be able to talk about it,you love to, you know.
I love talking about WBN at anyopportunity I can.
Um and being able to do it in anauthentic exchange of
information way, like this, forexample, just takes that
(30:31):
performance out and it justkeeps it humble and it keeps it
realistic and authentic.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And so when you start the WBN podcast, which I
know is coming soon, who is yourideal guest?
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
My members, for sure, to start with.
Um you know, they've built it.
Um the whole point of WBN is togive these small businesses a a
platform to to to support withtheir own marketing.
So definitely my my start withmy community first.
But I also want to speak to itwon't just obviously the main
(31:05):
focus will be the women in thisthis region, but I want to be
able to speak to all people thathave got a good story to tell
about their time in business,especially here in in Ho Chi
Minh.
Um But for me the podcast willbe a way to support the growth
of the community, um, but alsoto support the growth of the
members inside.
(31:26):
It's their own, you know, theycan come and join and they've
got their own um marketingstrategy from it and all their
content for them as well.
And that was exactly what WBNwas built on is providing
resources and support and placesfor women that are either just
setting up, have set up, or arescaling, even women that are in
corporate here that are lookingto, you know, build their
(31:48):
profile, etc.
It is a space, that's whatthat's what WBN is about.
And the podcast, WBN Podcastwill just be an extension of
that.
And we're actually going to begiving them content to use,
which doesn't happen very oftenhere.
SPEAKER_00 (32:00):
So awesome.
Well, Amy, all the best with thefuture of WBN and the WBN
podcast, which I'm excited foryou to get started.
And thank you for joining us onVietnam Content Marketing.
SPEAKER_01 (32:10):
Thank you for having me.
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