August 14, 2026 • 35 mins
"They identify with limits and how you can deal with limits to have success."
That's Francesca, and it's honestly the line from this conversation that I haven't stopped thinking about.
We got into why showing only your wins causes engagement to quietly die off, why sounding too polished on a podcast can actually push listeners away, and why sharing your limits — not hiding them — is what makes people stick around.
If you've ever wondered why your best content isn't getting the traction you expected, this one's for you.
5 Key Takeaways
- Success alone doesn't hold attention. Posts that only show wins tend to fade fast — Francesca described watching likes drop from 30, to 20, to 10, until only close friends and family were left engaging.
- People connect with limits, not achievements. Audiences don't relate to your highlight reel — they relate to how you handle the hard parts.
- Perfection can alienate your audience. A podcast host who sounds flawless can unintentionally make listeners think, "I could never do that."
- Vulnerability builds trust faster than polish. Sharing a struggle — like recording in a non-native language — invites people in instead of shutting them out.
- This applies everywhere, not just podcasting. Social media, personal branding, business content — the same principle holds: show the process, not just the outcome.
5 Chapters
- [00:00] Intro — Why This Episode Hits Different
I open the episode and introduce Francesca, setting up why we're talking about authenticity and the "perfection trap." - [05:30] The 30-20-10 Problem
Francesca breaks down the pattern of posting only success — and why engagement quietly dies when there's nothing for people to relate to. - [12:15] The Podcast Host Who's "Too Perfect"
We dig into her example of a flawless English-speaking host — and why that flawlessness can actually discourage listeners instead of inspiring them. - [19:40] Sharing the Limit, Not Just the Win
Practical talk about what it actually looks like to share struggles without oversharing or manufacturing weakness for attention. - [27:50] Wrap-Up — What to Do With This
We close out the conversation with final thoughts, and I thank Francesca for joining me on Vietnam Content Marketing.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:12):
This episode is sponsored by Saigon Podcast
Studio.
Premium podcast recording spaceright in the heart of District 1
Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(00:33):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Francesca, we're gonna startevery episode like we do with
the rapid fire openers, quickanswers, just very brief.
Number one, what is the bestcontent marketing advice you've
(00:56):
ever been given?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Okay, it comes from uh a filmmaker, actually, and
was to write the core of astorytelling storytelling in the
white space of a matchbox.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
What's the worst piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Just think a strategy just in terms of
numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
What's the one metric that you actually care
about?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
The coherence and the clarity when you talk about
your business, about what youdo, and the authenticity.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
What's one piece of content marketing advice for
somebody starting from zero nextweek?
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Find your unique selling point that makes the
difference from you to otherscontent creator.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
And podcasts, great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Great if you are able to manage it.
If you're not, is the worst ideayou can have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
I love that, and that's absolutely perfect.
It's why we exist at SevenMillion Bikes Podcast, and it's
something we talk to peopleabout a lot as well.
A lot of people want to start apodcast, and they when I explain
to them what actually goes intoit, they often are like, oh no,
we don't, we don't want to dothat.
Or not just the time because ittakes a lot of time, or the cost
as well.
Like if you want to create this,it's gonna cost you either X
(02:11):
amount of money, not a hugeamount, but it's gonna cost you
X amount of money, or it's gonnacost you X amount of time, and
for a lot of people they can'tdo that.
So I absolutely love thatanswer.
Francesca, you were a journalistand an editor at Italy's first
and oldest newspaper.
What is something that ajournalist knows about
storytelling that a marketerdoesn't?
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Two things finding the angle, because when you
write a news, you can write thesame thing but in a different
perspective.
So the angle is something I wasstruggling for a long time when
I was writing for La Nazione,and it's something I learned,
and I learned also in thejournalist school of Paris,
because they take care of theangle.
(02:53):
So it's one of the things that'sthe most important and makes the
difference.
The other one is bringing outthe real story that nobody tells
about.
Because normally when youinterview someone, they already
have a story in their mind, theyalready know what to tell.
But the most important thing forme, and the most important thing
(03:14):
for a journalist, is bringingout what they normally don't
tell.
SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
Can you give me an example of how you've used that
in marketing, how you've seenthat being used in marketing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:23):
Like, for example, if it talks about a story of a
small company just born, or alsoa long old company, they always
have a story and they tell theirstories in terms in terms of
numbers.
So I was born in 80, 80, 18, 83.
We were two brothers, and thenwe grew up, and we have now 10
(03:46):
salary, and now we have 10 yearsold story.
So that's the normal story youlisten to.
But for example, if you talkwith a business owner, for
example, I don't know, he has abar, a coffee shop, and they
tell you the normal story, butnobody tells you why they
(04:07):
decided to do that businessinstead of something else.
So why you open a coffee insteador I don't know, uh a shop
close.
So the story behind is the onewho makes you feel alive when
you listen to this story and youhave something to learn because
there is always a difficult,there is always a problem that
(04:30):
someone was trying to resolve, apersonal problem that became
their business at the end.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
And that's that Simon Sinek, that was his TED
talk or his talk that blew up,right?
He talked about the why.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah, that's one of the parts I I use in my in my
strategy.
Actually, uh yeah, the why isthe the strongest part of uh of
a brand because if you know uhvery well your reason why, you
can arrive directly to your toyour target audience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
And if you're listening right now, I'm sure
someone is thinking the same asme.
They're like, what is my why?
And I'm thinking right now, youknow, why did I start this?
Why do I do what I why do I dowhat I do?
And it is something I think Imaybe need to sit down and have
a good think about.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
In terms of why, there is the why you show to the
others and the why that isbehind.
Because there is always avisible goal, but inner goal
also.
And that's the most importantpart because the inner goal goal
is the thing that's is connectedto your to your target audience
(05:33):
because inside they have thesame feeling of you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:36):
How do you come up with a genuine why?
Because I I think if you were toask me right now, why do you do
readers?
Why do you create podcasts?
I could come up with a genericanswer, like, oh, I love sharing
stories, I love you know theyeah, sharing stories, that
would be the generic answer, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
I don't know if that is my real why.
I don't I don't wake up in themorning thinking, I love sharing
stories.
I I love the medium of podcasts,I love being able to put on your
headphones and listen to aninterview or a story.
So I mean, maybe I do lovestorytelling.
I'm not sure.
Like, how do you figure out yourwhy?
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Well, your personal why is what's the benefit you
have at the end of the day bydoing what you do.
Like, for example, if I talk interms of my personal why, I help
others to be invisible because Ilike to be visible too.
So at the end of the day, I've Ihelped others, but at the same
(06:33):
time I was visible to them.
So that's the personal why.
And I have a benefit also.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
And that's what I think it's difficult not to just
say, well, I just want to makemoney.
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Yeah, it's it's coherent and it's honest 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Because I think I I obviously want to make money
doing what I do, but if my realgoal was to make money, I I
would have chosen a differentpath.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Well, maybe you want to make money, but there is
something else inside you thatyou want all also, not just
making money.
Yeah.
And but if you were my client, Iwill take two sessions to talk
about your story, and from yourstory, for sure, you bring out
(07:19):
your real goal.
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
So you're from Italy, worked for the oldest
Italian newspaper.
What do you notice are thebiggest differences between the
way Italian brands andVietnamese brands tell stories?
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Okay, there is a huge difference because at the
moment, what I can see fromVietnamese brand is that they're
mostly oriented on theperformance, on the content, and
they try to.
I don't want to use this word,but it's kind of copy other
strategies instead of bringingout their true voice.
(07:53):
Instead, the Italian brand aremoving more and more in the
direction of the authenticityand the storytelling, the
personal storytelling.
So the difference is that youhave uh in Italy brand with a
long story and a story that istold.
In Vietnam, you find very goodviral content, and in Vietnam
they're very good on makingcontent, on video editing, on
(08:16):
video making, very good.
They're X excellent, and they goviral easily, but maybe
sometimes they miss the content,the true content.
So, how do you make thedifference between a huge
quantity of brand?
Because in Vietnam there are somany new brands.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
I saw something recently about this.
Someone posted uh a video thatthey made, and the comments were
like, technically, this isperfect, but I don't really
understand the point of it.
And I think is that what you youkind of mean?
It's interesting, you mentionedthat a word that has come up
actually time and time again onthis podcast and on other from
other conversations wasauthenticity.
(08:55):
And we talked about that rightnow.
Tay is here walking around,nobody will be able to see him
on the main cameras that we'retalking on right now.
He's taking behind-the-scenesfootage, say hello, Tay.
And we're doing that because wewant to create authentic
content, not just this contentthat looks perfect, the
lighting's all done.
We spend a lot of time settingall this up, making sure the
cameras ISO set perfectly, thatwe know the number on the
(09:18):
lights, all of this stuff, butwe also we're trying to, and
it's something that's I'vetalked about before, it's
difficult for me because I liketo do that kind of fake it till
you make it thing or promoteyourself.
Like, look how amazing this is.
Yeah, and it's only beenrecently through these
conversations that I'm like,okay, what let's try and share
more of the authentic self ofthe studio and myself.
I've shared some stuff about myhealth problems, about some
(09:41):
financial challenges that I'vehad in the past being here in
Vietnam that before I wouldnever do that, but now it's
like, okay, let's just be alittle bit real, let's be a
little bit authentic.
And we've not been doing it longenough to see the difference,
but I I think I can feel it'sgonna make a big difference.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
Yeah, you have an interesting story.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
I hope so, I think so.
And as I was saying to youbefore, you know, everything in
the studio took so much effort.
Yeah, you know, so even youwon't be able to see it on these
cameras right now.
Do you see that the power sudsthere?
The surge protector, the bigwhite box.
When we first moved into thestudio, I ran out and I bought a
(10:18):
whole bunch of surge protectors,you know, like the what do you
call them, like power outlets?
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
You're asking to the wrong person.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
I can't think of the game.
You can plug multiple capesmultiple plugs in, right?
So I ran out, I wantedeverything set up on the first
day, and they were about ahundred thousand dong each, so
about full dollars each.
Then as I using my friendChatGPT, I realized that cheap
is not good, and it can make thethese expensive lights and the
expensive cameras, it couldbreak them if we have a uh surge
(10:46):
of power, which could happenwith lightning and things like
this in Vietnam and Saigon.
And so I was like, shit.
So even something as simple asthat surge protector there, that
was about$900,000, somethinglike that, and it was really
difficult to find.
So this is again just going backto we want to share more of the
authentic self of the authenticstory.
(11:07):
Like this all looks relativelysimple, not simple at all.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
You wrote for Le Podcast Journal back in 2017 in
Paris.
Now, where do podcasts fit forbrands that are now trying to
build trust and thatauthenticity?
SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
Okay, it's a very different kind of language to
post podcast because it exposesyou more than other languages,
if you think about it.
Writing news is somethingwritten, writing a post is
something written.
I like a picture could be built,but a podcast, you have to
manage an interaction withsomeone else, and you have to
(11:46):
manage your voice.
So by your voice, people canunderstand where do you have
authority, where you have lessclarity, where you feel the
emotion.
So it's the best way to beconnected in a direct way with
your target audience, and it'svery intimate because normally
people listen to the podcastswhen they do other things, under
(12:08):
the shower, for example, ordriving, so they're they're in
their intimacy, but they listento you.
So it's a direct way to contactpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I I literally listen while I shave.
I was shaving this morning, andI make sure always to put a
podcast on.
So you have 100%.
And talking about the trust inthe voice, how do you build
trust through your voice?
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Well, that's a very hard question, but it's
interesting because I think thatthe way you be you can build
trust is being authentic themost as much possible.
Because now, for example, okay,I'm trying to manage my voice,
which is not easy for me.
Yeah, because I'm thinking in ain a different language, and I'm
(12:50):
thinking how to don't translatemy voice in a robot voice voice,
in a fake voice, because I wantto my I want to bring out my
message and I would like toconnect with you.
Okay.
So it's important that you arein contact with your deep voice,
and your deep voice doesn't comefrom your throat uh from your
(13:14):
belly.
So it's important that you feelnow I'm trying to feel feel your
body and the way that the voicecomes out from inside and what
you say comes out spontaneously.
Is that correct word?
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Yeah, spontaneous, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah.
Instead, if I'm focused on mymind about thinking about the
perfect answer, I start feelfeel the difference.
Now I I'm talking with my withmy with my throat, and I'm I
don't have I'm I do no sense.
So that's the the way you shouldmanage voice, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
So when you're working with Vietnamese brands
or Vietnamese people, what aresome of the things you notice
and what are the some of thethings you help coach them on to
help improve their voice?
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
Okay, what I notice is exactly what I was saying
earlier culturally, I think theVietnamese language uses mostly
the the the mouth to speak andthe voice stops here.
But even they have a very deepsound and very deep tones, so
(14:21):
sometimes it comes out from ofcourse from the belly, but when
they are too much focused on theperformance, they stop to have
this connection.
So one of the things I notice isthat and I notice mostly in the
women, they block.
They're they're likedisconnected.
Yeah, they're in the mind.
(14:41):
So what I help what I do forhelp them is they find again the
connection for the rest of withthe rest of the body.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
One of the things I've noticed, I'm not sure if
this is the exact same as voice,but one of the things I've
noticed working with Vietnamesebrands and Vietnamese businesses
is they love a script.
And going back to talking aboutbeing authentic, I've I've been
sometimes we've been recording apodcast, and I kind of have to
keep saying to them, like, don'tworry about the script.
Like, you know this, like thisis your field of expertise, just
(15:09):
talk.
And I've noticed it time andtime again.
I don't know if it's part of theeducation of you know, role and
repeat, like learning things onthe blackboard, and then you
just repeat it.
They love to get a script andfollow it, and it becomes so
inauthentic.
And I I found that as a bit of achallenge is to to try and coach
people to be like, just talkauthentically, just be yourself,
(15:31):
which is terrible advice, beyourself.
I I say that because I've hateI've hated that when someone
says to you, just be natural.
That's why I can that's why I'mlaughing at that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Actually, this is a problem not just for Vietnamese,
because also Italians has thisproblem.
Yeah.
Me too, I was one of these.
Because you know, when you starttalking about yourself, you're
scared.
Because you show parts of youthat you want normally hide.
You're you're used to talk aboutothers, especially if your work
is storytelling for others, butnot about you.
(16:02):
So when you're when you'reexposed, you wanna be perfect.
You uh you have fear ofjudgment, you fear what the
other thinks about you or whatyou say, or if you if you say
something that can triggerothers in a worse way.
So normally, yeah, I saw oftenduring interview and working for
(16:22):
the newspaper, many people thatwere reading something already
prepared, and it was just aninterview, not with the camera.
I was just writing and thenwriting again.
So I think is uh is a fear thatis common for many persons, fear
of exposure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
You moved to Saigon in 2025 and you brought your
business, Albedo, with you, andyou've been teasing for a while
now that you're gonna be doing aproject with a big fashion
brand, Anmir.
What does an Italian brandstrategist bring to a Vietnamese
fashion brand?
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
That's a very specific question and a very
specific case actually, becausethey're not clients for brand
strategy actually.
And there is an interestingstory with Anmir because I I met
them, the founder and theco-founder last year, just two
weeks before I left Vietnam tocome back to it to Italy.
(17:16):
And I was looking for a designerfor one for one of my projects
who was called called Volcanoand is a personal brand for
women.
And they were looking for amodel because they wanted to
express the idea of freedom, ofstrength, and of fun on wearing
their clothes.
And they were working withmodel, they have been working
(17:38):
with model for different years,but they never found that kind
of language.
So they recognized that I wasused to be a model and I and I
posed for them for uh one entirecollection.
And I yeah, and I was expressingthat kind of idea of freedom, of
fun and of for or strength.
(18:01):
Okay.
So that's a different way tocommunicate a brand because I'm
their brand ambassador, so it'sanother thing is connected to
Albedo.
And is the way that youcommunicate a brand through your
body, and that's the the entrypoint of the personal branding
(18:23):
project I bring with me forwomen that starts from body and
finishes with a personal brand.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
On that, what is the biggest difference between how
an Italian brand and aVietnamese brand tells a story?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Okay, an Italian brand is focused on the story,
on the story of the branditself.
So now we're moving more on thedirection of authenticity, and I
don't like using this wordbecause now everybody uses the
authenticity word, you know, butthat's the direction we're we're
going to because there are manycontents, and so that's the way
(18:58):
we make the difference.
And we go in the direction ofthe story, the authentic story
behind.
The Vietnamese, they go mostlyin the direction of comedy
because I see many content arecomedy or aesthetic, very
aesthetic.
They do entertainment, sothey're very good on
entertainment and creating viralcontent.
(19:20):
That's I think is the big thebig difference.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
I know for a brand I worked here before, a big
company.
I remember one time we had ameeting with the marketing
department and they said, Oh, wewant to we're gonna make a viral
video.
And I was kind of like, it's notreally that simple to just make
a viral video.
A video goes viral.
There's probably plenty ofvideos that you will make that
won't go viral.
But what are you seeingVietnamese brands do that is
(19:44):
helping create viral content?
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
First, they use a different platform because they
they on TikTok.
So on TikTok, the algorithm isdifferent and it's easier to
become be viral.
I went viral with uh the verystupid content and the content I
created one year and a half agoand is still working.
It's still creating engagementand new followers.
You know what?
And the the the the weird thingis that it's something I just
(20:09):
shot in three seconds and Iposted.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
I I've seen some TikTok videos that have gone
viral and I was and it millionsof views, and I watch it and I'm
like, I do what how is thisgoing viral?
It seems not like that big adeal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:22):
Yeah, it's uh the they go viral on TikTok, of
course, because they they'regood on creating like aesthetic
things, funny things, and it'sjust entertainment and they look
for entertainment because Ithink that's my idea.
When they watch the phone, theyjust want to stop from the chaos
of the city.
So that's why they go viraleasily.
(20:43):
The same content in Italy maybedoes maybe doesn't work because
in Italy we look for somethingthat leaves you a lesson or the
idea of learning something.
So that's my idea.
And they go viral with yeah,with very simple content.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
You mentioned there that the algorithm.
Yeah.
And and it's different forTikTok.
For you from your understanding,what works best on TikTok for
the algorithm, because we're allslaves to the algorithm.
What works in Vietnam?
You mentioned comedy, like howdoes that how do they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
How do they find the right content to become viral?
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
I think because they they observe the others and they
try to emulate the others.
So if you if you scroll and youwatch Vietnamese content, they
all they all fun.
They they I don't know, theyjoke.
They do joke about theVietnamese food, about the
Vietnamese grab, about theVietnamese chill.
If you scroll on TikTok, thecontent are very very similar,
(21:45):
and there are many foreignersthat emulate the Vietnamese
content because they wantfollowers from Vietnam.
So I think it's uh yeah, they goviral because they follow
trends.
And yeah, we can see trendsalso.
I remember last year.
When the the metro was open inVietnam, there were there were
many TikTokers shooting videoand picture in the metro, and
(22:07):
that that were content viral onTikTok.
So they go, they follow sometrends, first thing, and they
find things that are light, notvery engaging, not too much
heavy, because TikToks wantsomething that is just smart and
fast.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
I remember when the metro opened, I was at the
stairway, and it was just crazy.
There's just people everywheredressed up, like men, women, and
fashionable clothes, all takingpictures.
I was just eating my McDonald'sand was at the Vin Com Towdy End
Mall.
We were just watching all thesepeople taking all this content.
I was like, it's pretty cool.
Like, this is it's a big deal,the Metro video, like it took
long enough.
So that was pretty cool.
(22:45):
We've also seen a lot of ourcontent blow up on TikTok and
Instagram and Facebook.
We literally had a videorecently, forgot it might be
more than 500,000 now.
The last time I looked, I hadover 400,000 views on Facebook
alone, and then not as well asit on Instagram and TikTok, but
we've also had videos havemassive virality, many, many
(23:06):
views, and taking clips from thepodcasts.
And that's one thing that we tryand tell people is when you
create a podcast with us, it'snot just a podcast.
A lot of people think of it asjust being the audio only, but
we're saying when you create it,it spans many, many different
media, different content.
So you can you have the audio,the video on YouTube, you can
(23:27):
create a blog post, but thenthese short form clips, you
literally can reach millions andmillions of people.
If a Vietnamese brand came toyou and they said we're thinking
of starting a podcast, whatwould you tell them?
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
I will start from their unique selling point
because that makes thedifference.
And based on the unique sellingpoint, I will study the
competitors because if there areany competitors that manage a
similar podcast, of course, youhave to find a different
positioning.
And based on unique sellingpoint, I will build like a
(24:01):
series of 10 episodes that youcan manage that has a coherent
storytelling from each oneepisode just to bring out a
content, a real content,something that I can listen in
the morning and I canappreciate.
Because the podcast, in my mind,the podcast is like reading an
(24:24):
article or a newspaper article,but you do while you're doing
something else.
And so when you write, when youread something, you want to
learn something.
So you have to share somethingwhich is was interesting, and
the most easier way to shareinteresting content is being
close to a unique selling point,your core business actually.
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
So for Saigon Podcast Studio, what do you
think off the top of your headis our unique selling point?
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
The first thing I notice is that as a foreigner,
you approach to Vietnamesemarketing and content based on a
foreigner point of view, which Ithink is interesting for uh for
a Vietnamese target audience,because you offer a different
perspective.
(25:12):
That's the the thing that Inotice first.
But I would like to go deeper tounderstand what's the over
unique selling point that youhave, because for sure you have
you have more than this.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Albedo, your brand, is named after a physics term
which is about the amount oflight that is reflected off a
surface.
I love that.
And your your strategy followsarchetypes.
For a small business owner inSaigon, what does that look like
in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
First, I start from the concept itself because the
idea of uh comparing the albedowith a client is is in terms of
how much potential have asurface to reflect the light.
So it's the same is applied to aclient.
Okay.
When I start a path with a cliwith a client is definitely a
(26:03):
path of 10 sessions, I firstlisten to their story.
So I take at least one or twosessions to listen, just listen
their story.
It's like a journalismjournalistic interview because I
want to hear everything and Iwant to bring out, as I thought
before, the real story theydon't you they're not used to to
tell.
(26:24):
And after this, we work on thegolden circle.
So we build a mission, vision,values.
And based on this, we we workwith the competitor studying,
positioning, and just afterthis, we have an archetype test,
which is different.
It's different if you are acompany.
(26:44):
I have a specific archetype testbased on uh Carl Jung
archetypes.
If you are a personal brand, Ihave three wheels of archetype.
So one is a Carl Jung, one of aTitan, and one of God this for
women and god for men.
And that's the test that helpedto understand better how the
(27:06):
angle of the angle of yourpersonality if you're a personal
brand of your or of your companyif you're a company.
So based on the archetype, wecan choose easily all the
visual.
That means creating a moodboard, choosing a palette of
color, and then building astorytelling based on the story
that you told before and on onthe story that we work later on
(27:30):
a second moment.
So it's an entire path that iscreated to bring out your real
story.
And when you have uh a clearidea about your archetype, it's
easier for you to tell yourstory because there are some
traits that are common from theclient and the archetype they
choose.
So when you have a clear ideaabout your archetype, it's
(27:54):
easier to communicate your brandor your personal brand.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
And remember we talked about this the first time
we met about Nike.
So explain a little bit what isthe Nike archetype and how do
they use that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
Okay, so the Nike archetype is built, is based on
the hero archetype and is one ofthe Carlyung archetypes, and
basically is connected to whatare the target audience that
identifies himself with uh ahero.
They have an imaginary as hero,so or they are they are already
(28:28):
hero or they want to become herosomehow.
Okay, so everything in Nikescreams the hero journey.
Like the logo itself is uh awing, simplified of course, but
it's a wing and is uh isreferring to Nike goddess, the
victory, the goddess of victory.
(28:50):
So the brand itself has a nameof a goddess of victory, and
every spot, every payoff, everyclaim is definitely connected to
the idea, the idea of if youwear Nike shoes or clothes,
you're going to win.
And that's why that's a verystrong example of an archetypal
(29:10):
brand.
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
How do you tell the difference between a business
who has an identity problemversus a business who has a
content problem?
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
One business that has an identity problem as the
core problem because they canhave a lot of content.
They can create even funnycontent and viral content, but
they miss the message.
Instead, one business who has acontent problem, they could have
a strong brand identity, butthey have no ideas.
So they need ideas to createcontent.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
You've talked about the power of a pause and the
weight of a word.
Now, does a brand also have acertain sound?
And how would a podcast helpcarry that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:51):
That's a very interesting question.
And I will give you a structureanswer as possible because my
first idea is that to build avery strong brand brand
identity, you have to getinvolved all the five senses.
So, and now is the directionthat many brands are going to.
(30:14):
And I can answer about thepodcast in two different ways.
So the first thing when we builda brand identity, you also build
a tone of voice of that brand.
That means that is like aguideline about how to speak,
(30:35):
how to talk, what words you canuse and what you cannot.
And basically, when you usearchetype, it's very easy
because each archetype has asemantic field of words that you
can use.
For example, if you use anexplorer archetype, explorer is
connected to the travel,discovering, adventure.
(30:57):
So you use technique you usetechnically this kind of words
in your tone of voice.
If you have a brand built on Mr.
Mr.
is fun, so you don't you're notobliged to use specific words,
but you use irony, irony, orsatire satira.
Satire.
(31:17):
Satire.
Yeah.
And you you try to have fun.
Okay.
So how you do you translate thisin a tone of voice?
You have a list of words you canuse, you have uh a tone you can
use, and a way to communicatewith others.
So in a podcast, for example, ifyou if you have a brand that is
(31:38):
based on the Easter, you cannotmanage a very boring interview
or series or about how dead isthat thing.
You have to introduce fun andirony to be connected to the
archetype.
Instead, if you use the I don'tknow, the wise man, you can go
(32:01):
deep because that's the kind ofarchetype that represents you.
And you use the keywords thatare connected to our to the
archetype.
So that's the part con conthat's the part concerning the
tone of voice.
The other part, and is one ofthe things I'm very, very
attracted to, is thesynesthesia.
(32:21):
Because I'm studying and doingresearch about synesthesia since
many years, and I think eachbrand has the power to
communicate through multiplesenses, and sound is one of the
senses, senses.
So there are many brands, likefor example, they use Spotify to
(32:43):
create playlists, brandedplaylists, or they have branded
jingle, branded music, andthat's already a way that they
create sound.
And the sound is not somethingthat they create from from
nothing.
They start from the story of thebrand, and the sound is forcibly
connected to the rest of thevisual, etc.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
I think most of all, when I think of synesthesia, is
the Netflix sound.
You know exactly what thatsounds like when you turn on
Netflix.
And I've just recently startedusing Apple TV for the first
time, and and that has its ownsimilar Netflix sound, but you
listen to it and immediatelyit's kind of like it knocks you
in the face.
Just and then you're like,again, I'm like, you've spent
(33:25):
time and money developing thisvery specific sound that's
repeated at the start of everyshow, so you know exactly.
And then even goes as far as youtalked about the five senses,
like smell.
I know in America, I think it'sHollister or American.
SPEAKER_00 (33:39):
Yeah, but Hollister, I better crombie and holister.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Yeah, they have like their own smell, right?
So you go in the store becauseof the smell.
Yeah, I mean, I used to live inAmerica, you would walk by the
store, and you just as soon asyou get that whiff of the smell,
you know you're walking by thatstore.
And yeah, I think Subway has avery similar thing as well.
So it's it's really using thosefive senses, and I think that is
another big benefit of podcasts.
And you know, AI comes up a lot,and people think, are people or
(34:03):
AI gonna is I is AI gonna takeover podcasting?
And I'm just like, no, becausepeople they connect with people
and voices, you know.
I've listened to AI podcasts.
If they make one mistake in thepronunciation, immediately
you've lost all faith and trustin that podcast.
You're like, this is not real.
People want to hear realpeople's voices, right?
And they want to connect withthat.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, they wanna because one of the most
important things is to connectreally with people, you don't
have to show how successful youare, but you have to show your
limits.
Because if you if you notice,it's not easy when you start
from zero with uh, I don't know,a personal brand.
You I you try to expressyourself through a personal
(34:48):
brand.
If you just show your success,you have 30 likes, then 20, then
10, they start to fall down, andthey're just your family and
your very close friends becauseyou know the success is boring.
And people don't identify justwith the success.
They they identify with limitsand how you can deal with limits
(35:10):
to have success.
So the same thing is in thepodcast.
If you're perfect, yeah, youtrigger the other in the in a
worse way.
I mean, they think, oh, how isperfect this person speaks very
good English?
I cannot deal with it.
I cannot do a I cannot create apodcast because my English is
very bad.
(35:30):
And it's good to share the thelimit, also.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Francesca, this has been absolutely amazing.
Thank you so much for joining meon Vietnam Content Marketing.
This episode is sponsored by Saigon Podcast
Studio.
Premium podcast recording spaceright in the heart of District 1
Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(00:33):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Francesca, we're gonna startevery episode like we do with
the rapid fire openers, quickanswers, just very brief.
Number one, what is the bestcontent marketing advice you've
(00:56):
ever been given?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Okay, it comes from uh a filmmaker, actually, and
was to write the core of astorytelling storytelling in the
white space of a matchbox.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
What's the worst piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Just think a strategy just in terms of
numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
What's the one metric that you actually care
about?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
The coherence and the clarity when you talk about
your business, about what youdo, and the authenticity.
SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
What's one piece of content marketing advice for
somebody starting from zero nextweek?
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Find your unique selling point that makes the
difference from you to otherscontent creator.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
And podcasts, great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Great if you are able to manage it.
If you're not, is the worst ideayou can have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
I love that, and that's absolutely perfect.
It's why we exist at SevenMillion Bikes Podcast, and it's
something we talk to peopleabout a lot as well.
A lot of people want to start apodcast, and they when I explain
to them what actually goes intoit, they often are like, oh no,
we don't, we don't want to dothat.
Or not just the time because ittakes a lot of time, or the cost
as well.
Like if you want to create this,it's gonna cost you either X
(02:11):
amount of money, not a hugeamount, but it's gonna cost you
X amount of money, or it's gonnacost you X amount of time, and
for a lot of people they can'tdo that.
So I absolutely love thatanswer.
Francesca, you were a journalistand an editor at Italy's first
and oldest newspaper.
What is something that ajournalist knows about
storytelling that a marketerdoesn't?
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Two things finding the angle, because when you
write a news, you can write thesame thing but in a different
perspective.
So the angle is something I wasstruggling for a long time when
I was writing for La Nazione,and it's something I learned,
and I learned also in thejournalist school of Paris,
because they take care of theangle.
(02:53):
So it's one of the things that'sthe most important and makes the
difference.
The other one is bringing outthe real story that nobody tells
about.
Because normally when youinterview someone, they already
have a story in their mind, theyalready know what to tell.
But the most important thing forme, and the most important thing
(03:14):
for a journalist, is bringingout what they normally don't
tell.
SPEAKER_01 (03:18):
Can you give me an example of how you've used that
in marketing, how you've seenthat being used in marketing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:23):
Like, for example, if it talks about a story of a
small company just born, or alsoa long old company, they always
have a story and they tell theirstories in terms in terms of
numbers.
So I was born in 80, 80, 18, 83.
We were two brothers, and thenwe grew up, and we have now 10
(03:46):
salary, and now we have 10 yearsold story.
So that's the normal story youlisten to.
But for example, if you talkwith a business owner, for
example, I don't know, he has abar, a coffee shop, and they
tell you the normal story, butnobody tells you why they
(04:07):
decided to do that businessinstead of something else.
So why you open a coffee insteador I don't know, uh a shop
close.
So the story behind is the onewho makes you feel alive when
you listen to this story and youhave something to learn because
there is always a difficult,there is always a problem that
(04:30):
someone was trying to resolve, apersonal problem that became
their business at the end.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
And that's that Simon Sinek, that was his TED
talk or his talk that blew up,right?
He talked about the why.
SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
Yeah, that's one of the parts I I use in my in my
strategy.
Actually, uh yeah, the why isthe the strongest part of uh of
a brand because if you know uhvery well your reason why, you
can arrive directly to your toyour target audience.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
And if you're listening right now, I'm sure
someone is thinking the same asme.
They're like, what is my why?
And I'm thinking right now, youknow, why did I start this?
Why do I do what I why do I dowhat I do?
And it is something I think Imaybe need to sit down and have
a good think about.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
In terms of why, there is the why you show to the
others and the why that isbehind.
Because there is always avisible goal, but inner goal
also.
And that's the most importantpart because the inner goal goal
is the thing that's is connectedto your to your target audience
(05:33):
because inside they have thesame feeling of you.
SPEAKER_01 (05:36):
How do you come up with a genuine why?
Because I I think if you were toask me right now, why do you do
readers?
Why do you create podcasts?
I could come up with a genericanswer, like, oh, I love sharing
stories, I love you know theyeah, sharing stories, that
would be the generic answer, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
I don't know if that is my real why.
I don't I don't wake up in themorning thinking, I love sharing
stories.
I I love the medium of podcasts,I love being able to put on your
headphones and listen to aninterview or a story.
So I mean, maybe I do lovestorytelling.
I'm not sure.
Like, how do you figure out yourwhy?
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Well, your personal why is what's the benefit you
have at the end of the day bydoing what you do.
Like, for example, if I talk interms of my personal why, I help
others to be invisible because Ilike to be visible too.
So at the end of the day, I've Ihelped others, but at the same
(06:33):
time I was visible to them.
So that's the personal why.
And I have a benefit also.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
And that's what I think it's difficult not to just
say, well, I just want to makemoney.
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
Yeah, it's it's coherent and it's honest 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Because I think I I obviously want to make money
doing what I do, but if my realgoal was to make money, I I
would have chosen a differentpath.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Well, maybe you want to make money, but there is
something else inside you thatyou want all also, not just
making money.
Yeah.
And but if you were my client, Iwill take two sessions to talk
about your story, and from yourstory, for sure, you bring out
(07:19):
your real goal.
SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
So you're from Italy, worked for the oldest
Italian newspaper.
What do you notice are thebiggest differences between the
way Italian brands andVietnamese brands tell stories?
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Okay, there is a huge difference because at the
moment, what I can see fromVietnamese brand is that they're
mostly oriented on theperformance, on the content, and
they try to.
I don't want to use this word,but it's kind of copy other
strategies instead of bringingout their true voice.
(07:53):
Instead, the Italian brand aremoving more and more in the
direction of the authenticityand the storytelling, the
personal storytelling.
So the difference is that youhave uh in Italy brand with a
long story and a story that istold.
In Vietnam, you find very goodviral content, and in Vietnam
they're very good on makingcontent, on video editing, on
(08:16):
video making, very good.
They're X excellent, and they goviral easily, but maybe
sometimes they miss the content,the true content.
So, how do you make thedifference between a huge
quantity of brand?
Because in Vietnam there are somany new brands.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
I saw something recently about this.
Someone posted uh a video thatthey made, and the comments were
like, technically, this isperfect, but I don't really
understand the point of it.
And I think is that what you youkind of mean?
It's interesting, you mentionedthat a word that has come up
actually time and time again onthis podcast and on other from
other conversations wasauthenticity.
(08:55):
And we talked about that rightnow.
Tay is here walking around,nobody will be able to see him
on the main cameras that we'retalking on right now.
He's taking behind-the-scenesfootage, say hello, Tay.
And we're doing that because wewant to create authentic
content, not just this contentthat looks perfect, the
lighting's all done.
We spend a lot of time settingall this up, making sure the
cameras ISO set perfectly, thatwe know the number on the
(09:18):
lights, all of this stuff, butwe also we're trying to, and
it's something that's I'vetalked about before, it's
difficult for me because I liketo do that kind of fake it till
you make it thing or promoteyourself.
Like, look how amazing this is.
Yeah, and it's only beenrecently through these
conversations that I'm like,okay, what let's try and share
more of the authentic self ofthe studio and myself.
I've shared some stuff about myhealth problems, about some
(09:41):
financial challenges that I'vehad in the past being here in
Vietnam that before I wouldnever do that, but now it's
like, okay, let's just be alittle bit real, let's be a
little bit authentic.
And we've not been doing it longenough to see the difference,
but I I think I can feel it'sgonna make a big difference.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
Yeah, you have an interesting story.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
I hope so, I think so.
And as I was saying to youbefore, you know, everything in
the studio took so much effort.
Yeah, you know, so even youwon't be able to see it on these
cameras right now.
Do you see that the power sudsthere?
The surge protector, the bigwhite box.
When we first moved into thestudio, I ran out and I bought a
(10:18):
whole bunch of surge protectors,you know, like the what do you
call them, like power outlets?
SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
You're asking to the wrong person.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
I can't think of the game.
You can plug multiple capesmultiple plugs in, right?
So I ran out, I wantedeverything set up on the first
day, and they were about ahundred thousand dong each, so
about full dollars each.
Then as I using my friendChatGPT, I realized that cheap
is not good, and it can make thethese expensive lights and the
expensive cameras, it couldbreak them if we have a uh surge
(10:46):
of power, which could happenwith lightning and things like
this in Vietnam and Saigon.
And so I was like, shit.
So even something as simple asthat surge protector there, that
was about$900,000, somethinglike that, and it was really
difficult to find.
So this is again just going backto we want to share more of the
authentic self of the authenticstory.
(11:07):
Like this all looks relativelysimple, not simple at all.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
You wrote for Le Podcast Journal back in 2017 in
Paris.
Now, where do podcasts fit forbrands that are now trying to
build trust and thatauthenticity?
SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
Okay, it's a very different kind of language to
post podcast because it exposesyou more than other languages,
if you think about it.
Writing news is somethingwritten, writing a post is
something written.
I like a picture could be built,but a podcast, you have to
manage an interaction withsomeone else, and you have to
(11:46):
manage your voice.
So by your voice, people canunderstand where do you have
authority, where you have lessclarity, where you feel the
emotion.
So it's the best way to beconnected in a direct way with
your target audience, and it'svery intimate because normally
people listen to the podcastswhen they do other things, under
(12:08):
the shower, for example, ordriving, so they're they're in
their intimacy, but they listento you.
So it's a direct way to contactpeople.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I I literally listen while I shave.
I was shaving this morning, andI make sure always to put a
podcast on.
So you have 100%.
And talking about the trust inthe voice, how do you build
trust through your voice?
SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
Well, that's a very hard question, but it's
interesting because I think thatthe way you be you can build
trust is being authentic themost as much possible.
Because now, for example, okay,I'm trying to manage my voice,
which is not easy for me.
Yeah, because I'm thinking in ain a different language, and I'm
(12:50):
thinking how to don't translatemy voice in a robot voice voice,
in a fake voice, because I wantto my I want to bring out my
message and I would like toconnect with you.
Okay.
So it's important that you arein contact with your deep voice,
and your deep voice doesn't comefrom your throat uh from your
(13:14):
belly.
So it's important that you feelnow I'm trying to feel feel your
body and the way that the voicecomes out from inside and what
you say comes out spontaneously.
Is that correct word?
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Yeah, spontaneous, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Yeah.
Instead, if I'm focused on mymind about thinking about the
perfect answer, I start feelfeel the difference.
Now I I'm talking with my withmy with my throat, and I'm I
don't have I'm I do no sense.
So that's the the way you shouldmanage voice, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
So when you're working with Vietnamese brands
or Vietnamese people, what aresome of the things you notice
and what are the some of thethings you help coach them on to
help improve their voice?
SPEAKER_00 (14:00):
Okay, what I notice is exactly what I was saying
earlier culturally, I think theVietnamese language uses mostly
the the the mouth to speak andthe voice stops here.
But even they have a very deepsound and very deep tones, so
(14:21):
sometimes it comes out from ofcourse from the belly, but when
they are too much focused on theperformance, they stop to have
this connection.
So one of the things I notice isthat and I notice mostly in the
women, they block.
They're they're likedisconnected.
Yeah, they're in the mind.
(14:41):
So what I help what I do forhelp them is they find again the
connection for the rest of withthe rest of the body.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
One of the things I've noticed, I'm not sure if
this is the exact same as voice,but one of the things I've
noticed working with Vietnamesebrands and Vietnamese businesses
is they love a script.
And going back to talking aboutbeing authentic, I've I've been
sometimes we've been recording apodcast, and I kind of have to
keep saying to them, like, don'tworry about the script.
Like, you know this, like thisis your field of expertise, just
(15:09):
talk.
And I've noticed it time andtime again.
I don't know if it's part of theeducation of you know, role and
repeat, like learning things onthe blackboard, and then you
just repeat it.
They love to get a script andfollow it, and it becomes so
inauthentic.
And I I found that as a bit of achallenge is to to try and coach
people to be like, just talkauthentically, just be yourself,
(15:31):
which is terrible advice, beyourself.
I I say that because I've hateI've hated that when someone
says to you, just be natural.
That's why I can that's why I'mlaughing at that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Actually, this is a problem not just for Vietnamese,
because also Italians has thisproblem.
Yeah.
Me too, I was one of these.
Because you know, when you starttalking about yourself, you're
scared.
Because you show parts of youthat you want normally hide.
You're you're used to talk aboutothers, especially if your work
is storytelling for others, butnot about you.
(16:02):
So when you're when you'reexposed, you wanna be perfect.
You uh you have fear ofjudgment, you fear what the
other thinks about you or whatyou say, or if you if you say
something that can triggerothers in a worse way.
So normally, yeah, I saw oftenduring interview and working for
(16:22):
the newspaper, many people thatwere reading something already
prepared, and it was just aninterview, not with the camera.
I was just writing and thenwriting again.
So I think is uh is a fear thatis common for many persons, fear
of exposure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
You moved to Saigon in 2025 and you brought your
business, Albedo, with you, andyou've been teasing for a while
now that you're gonna be doing aproject with a big fashion
brand, Anmir.
What does an Italian brandstrategist bring to a Vietnamese
fashion brand?
SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
That's a very specific question and a very
specific case actually, becausethey're not clients for brand
strategy actually.
And there is an interestingstory with Anmir because I I met
them, the founder and theco-founder last year, just two
weeks before I left Vietnam tocome back to it to Italy.
(17:16):
And I was looking for a designerfor one for one of my projects
who was called called Volcanoand is a personal brand for
women.
And they were looking for amodel because they wanted to
express the idea of freedom, ofstrength, and of fun on wearing
their clothes.
And they were working withmodel, they have been working
(17:38):
with model for different years,but they never found that kind
of language.
So they recognized that I wasused to be a model and I and I
posed for them for uh one entirecollection.
And I yeah, and I was expressingthat kind of idea of freedom, of
fun and of for or strength.
(18:01):
Okay.
So that's a different way tocommunicate a brand because I'm
their brand ambassador, so it'sanother thing is connected to
Albedo.
And is the way that youcommunicate a brand through your
body, and that's the the entrypoint of the personal branding
(18:23):
project I bring with me forwomen that starts from body and
finishes with a personal brand.
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
On that, what is the biggest difference between how
an Italian brand and aVietnamese brand tells a story?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Okay, an Italian brand is focused on the story,
on the story of the branditself.
So now we're moving more on thedirection of authenticity, and I
don't like using this wordbecause now everybody uses the
authenticity word, you know, butthat's the direction we're we're
going to because there are manycontents, and so that's the way
(18:58):
we make the difference.
And we go in the direction ofthe story, the authentic story
behind.
The Vietnamese, they go mostlyin the direction of comedy
because I see many content arecomedy or aesthetic, very
aesthetic.
They do entertainment, sothey're very good on
entertainment and creating viralcontent.
(19:20):
That's I think is the big thebig difference.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
I know for a brand I worked here before, a big
company.
I remember one time we had ameeting with the marketing
department and they said, Oh, wewant to we're gonna make a viral
video.
And I was kind of like, it's notreally that simple to just make
a viral video.
A video goes viral.
There's probably plenty ofvideos that you will make that
won't go viral.
But what are you seeingVietnamese brands do that is
(19:44):
helping create viral content?
SPEAKER_00 (19:46):
First, they use a different platform because they
they on TikTok.
So on TikTok, the algorithm isdifferent and it's easier to
become be viral.
I went viral with uh the verystupid content and the content I
created one year and a half agoand is still working.
It's still creating engagementand new followers.
You know what?
And the the the the weird thingis that it's something I just
(20:09):
shot in three seconds and Iposted.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
I I've seen some TikTok videos that have gone
viral and I was and it millionsof views, and I watch it and I'm
like, I do what how is thisgoing viral?
It seems not like that big adeal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:22):
Yeah, it's uh the they go viral on TikTok, of
course, because they they'regood on creating like aesthetic
things, funny things, and it'sjust entertainment and they look
for entertainment because Ithink that's my idea.
When they watch the phone, theyjust want to stop from the chaos
of the city.
So that's why they go viraleasily.
(20:43):
The same content in Italy maybedoes maybe doesn't work because
in Italy we look for somethingthat leaves you a lesson or the
idea of learning something.
So that's my idea.
And they go viral with yeah,with very simple content.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
You mentioned there that the algorithm.
Yeah.
And and it's different forTikTok.
For you from your understanding,what works best on TikTok for
the algorithm, because we're allslaves to the algorithm.
What works in Vietnam?
You mentioned comedy, like howdoes that how do they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
How do they find the right content to become viral?
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
I think because they they observe the others and they
try to emulate the others.
So if you if you scroll and youwatch Vietnamese content, they
all they all fun.
They they I don't know, theyjoke.
They do joke about theVietnamese food, about the
Vietnamese grab, about theVietnamese chill.
If you scroll on TikTok, thecontent are very very similar,
(21:45):
and there are many foreignersthat emulate the Vietnamese
content because they wantfollowers from Vietnam.
So I think it's uh yeah, they goviral because they follow
trends.
And yeah, we can see trendsalso.
I remember last year.
When the the metro was open inVietnam, there were there were
many TikTokers shooting videoand picture in the metro, and
(22:07):
that that were content viral onTikTok.
So they go, they follow sometrends, first thing, and they
find things that are light, notvery engaging, not too much
heavy, because TikToks wantsomething that is just smart and
fast.
SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
I remember when the metro opened, I was at the
stairway, and it was just crazy.
There's just people everywheredressed up, like men, women, and
fashionable clothes, all takingpictures.
I was just eating my McDonald'sand was at the Vin Com Towdy End
Mall.
We were just watching all thesepeople taking all this content.
I was like, it's pretty cool.
Like, this is it's a big deal,the Metro video, like it took
long enough.
So that was pretty cool.
(22:45):
We've also seen a lot of ourcontent blow up on TikTok and
Instagram and Facebook.
We literally had a videorecently, forgot it might be
more than 500,000 now.
The last time I looked, I hadover 400,000 views on Facebook
alone, and then not as well asit on Instagram and TikTok, but
we've also had videos havemassive virality, many, many
(23:06):
views, and taking clips from thepodcasts.
And that's one thing that we tryand tell people is when you
create a podcast with us, it'snot just a podcast.
A lot of people think of it asjust being the audio only, but
we're saying when you create it,it spans many, many different
media, different content.
So you can you have the audio,the video on YouTube, you can
(23:27):
create a blog post, but thenthese short form clips, you
literally can reach millions andmillions of people.
If a Vietnamese brand came toyou and they said we're thinking
of starting a podcast, whatwould you tell them?
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
I will start from their unique selling point
because that makes thedifference.
And based on the unique sellingpoint, I will study the
competitors because if there areany competitors that manage a
similar podcast, of course, youhave to find a different
positioning.
And based on unique sellingpoint, I will build like a
(24:01):
series of 10 episodes that youcan manage that has a coherent
storytelling from each oneepisode just to bring out a
content, a real content,something that I can listen in
the morning and I canappreciate.
Because the podcast, in my mind,the podcast is like reading an
(24:24):
article or a newspaper article,but you do while you're doing
something else.
And so when you write, when youread something, you want to
learn something.
So you have to share somethingwhich is was interesting, and
the most easier way to shareinteresting content is being
close to a unique selling point,your core business actually.
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
So for Saigon Podcast Studio, what do you
think off the top of your headis our unique selling point?
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
The first thing I notice is that as a foreigner,
you approach to Vietnamesemarketing and content based on a
foreigner point of view, which Ithink is interesting for uh for
a Vietnamese target audience,because you offer a different
perspective.
(25:12):
That's the the thing that Inotice first.
But I would like to go deeper tounderstand what's the over
unique selling point that youhave, because for sure you have
you have more than this.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Albedo, your brand, is named after a physics term
which is about the amount oflight that is reflected off a
surface.
I love that.
And your your strategy followsarchetypes.
For a small business owner inSaigon, what does that look like
in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
First, I start from the concept itself because the
idea of uh comparing the albedowith a client is is in terms of
how much potential have asurface to reflect the light.
So it's the same is applied to aclient.
Okay.
When I start a path with a cliwith a client is definitely a
(26:03):
path of 10 sessions, I firstlisten to their story.
So I take at least one or twosessions to listen, just listen
their story.
It's like a journalismjournalistic interview because I
want to hear everything and Iwant to bring out, as I thought
before, the real story theydon't you they're not used to to
tell.
(26:24):
And after this, we work on thegolden circle.
So we build a mission, vision,values.
And based on this, we we workwith the competitor studying,
positioning, and just afterthis, we have an archetype test,
which is different.
It's different if you are acompany.
(26:44):
I have a specific archetype testbased on uh Carl Jung
archetypes.
If you are a personal brand, Ihave three wheels of archetype.
So one is a Carl Jung, one of aTitan, and one of God this for
women and god for men.
And that's the test that helpedto understand better how the
(27:06):
angle of the angle of yourpersonality if you're a personal
brand of your or of your companyif you're a company.
So based on the archetype, wecan choose easily all the
visual.
That means creating a moodboard, choosing a palette of
color, and then building astorytelling based on the story
that you told before and on onthe story that we work later on
(27:30):
a second moment.
So it's an entire path that iscreated to bring out your real
story.
And when you have uh a clearidea about your archetype, it's
easier for you to tell yourstory because there are some
traits that are common from theclient and the archetype they
choose.
So when you have a clear ideaabout your archetype, it's
(27:54):
easier to communicate your brandor your personal brand.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
And remember we talked about this the first time
we met about Nike.
So explain a little bit what isthe Nike archetype and how do
they use that.
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
Okay, so the Nike archetype is built, is based on
the hero archetype and is one ofthe Carlyung archetypes, and
basically is connected to whatare the target audience that
identifies himself with uh ahero.
They have an imaginary as hero,so or they are they are already
(28:28):
hero or they want to become herosomehow.
Okay, so everything in Nikescreams the hero journey.
Like the logo itself is uh awing, simplified of course, but
it's a wing and is uh isreferring to Nike goddess, the
victory, the goddess of victory.
(28:50):
So the brand itself has a nameof a goddess of victory, and
every spot, every payoff, everyclaim is definitely connected to
the idea, the idea of if youwear Nike shoes or clothes,
you're going to win.
And that's why that's a verystrong example of an archetypal
(29:10):
brand.
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
How do you tell the difference between a business
who has an identity problemversus a business who has a
content problem?
SPEAKER_00 (29:18):
One business that has an identity problem as the
core problem because they canhave a lot of content.
They can create even funnycontent and viral content, but
they miss the message.
Instead, one business who has acontent problem, they could have
a strong brand identity, butthey have no ideas.
So they need ideas to createcontent.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
You've talked about the power of a pause and the
weight of a word.
Now, does a brand also have acertain sound?
And how would a podcast helpcarry that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:51):
That's a very interesting question.
And I will give you a structureanswer as possible because my
first idea is that to build avery strong brand brand
identity, you have to getinvolved all the five senses.
So, and now is the directionthat many brands are going to.
(30:14):
And I can answer about thepodcast in two different ways.
So the first thing when we builda brand identity, you also build
a tone of voice of that brand.
That means that is like aguideline about how to speak,
(30:35):
how to talk, what words you canuse and what you cannot.
And basically, when you usearchetype, it's very easy
because each archetype has asemantic field of words that you
can use.
For example, if you use anexplorer archetype, explorer is
connected to the travel,discovering, adventure.
(30:57):
So you use technique you usetechnically this kind of words
in your tone of voice.
If you have a brand built on Mr.
Mr.
is fun, so you don't you're notobliged to use specific words,
but you use irony, irony, orsatire satira.
Satire.
(31:17):
Satire.
Yeah.
And you you try to have fun.
Okay.
So how you do you translate thisin a tone of voice?
You have a list of words you canuse, you have uh a tone you can
use, and a way to communicatewith others.
So in a podcast, for example, ifyou if you have a brand that is
(31:38):
based on the Easter, you cannotmanage a very boring interview
or series or about how dead isthat thing.
You have to introduce fun andirony to be connected to the
archetype.
Instead, if you use the I don'tknow, the wise man, you can go
(32:01):
deep because that's the kind ofarchetype that represents you.
And you use the keywords thatare connected to our to the
archetype.
So that's the part con conthat's the part concerning the
tone of voice.
The other part, and is one ofthe things I'm very, very
attracted to, is thesynesthesia.
(32:21):
Because I'm studying and doingresearch about synesthesia since
many years, and I think eachbrand has the power to
communicate through multiplesenses, and sound is one of the
senses, senses.
So there are many brands, likefor example, they use Spotify to
(32:43):
create playlists, brandedplaylists, or they have branded
jingle, branded music, andthat's already a way that they
create sound.
And the sound is not somethingthat they create from from
nothing.
They start from the story of thebrand, and the sound is forcibly
connected to the rest of thevisual, etc.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
I think most of all, when I think of synesthesia, is
the Netflix sound.
You know exactly what thatsounds like when you turn on
Netflix.
And I've just recently startedusing Apple TV for the first
time, and and that has its ownsimilar Netflix sound, but you
listen to it and immediatelyit's kind of like it knocks you
in the face.
Just and then you're like,again, I'm like, you've spent
(33:25):
time and money developing thisvery specific sound that's
repeated at the start of everyshow, so you know exactly.
And then even goes as far as youtalked about the five senses,
like smell.
I know in America, I think it'sHollister or American.
SPEAKER_00 (33:39):
Yeah, but Hollister, I better crombie and holister.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Yeah, they have like their own smell, right?
So you go in the store becauseof the smell.
Yeah, I mean, I used to live inAmerica, you would walk by the
store, and you just as soon asyou get that whiff of the smell,
you know you're walking by thatstore.
And yeah, I think Subway has avery similar thing as well.
So it's it's really using thosefive senses, and I think that is
another big benefit of podcasts.
And you know, AI comes up a lot,and people think, are people or
(34:03):
AI gonna is I is AI gonna takeover podcasting?
And I'm just like, no, becausepeople they connect with people
and voices, you know.
I've listened to AI podcasts.
If they make one mistake in thepronunciation, immediately
you've lost all faith and trustin that podcast.
You're like, this is not real.
People want to hear realpeople's voices, right?
And they want to connect withthat.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, they wanna because one of the most
important things is to connectreally with people, you don't
have to show how successful youare, but you have to show your
limits.
Because if you if you notice,it's not easy when you start
from zero with uh, I don't know,a personal brand.
You I you try to expressyourself through a personal
(34:48):
brand.
If you just show your success,you have 30 likes, then 20, then
10, they start to fall down, andthey're just your family and
your very close friends becauseyou know the success is boring.
And people don't identify justwith the success.
They they identify with limitsand how you can deal with limits
(35:10):
to have success.
So the same thing is in thepodcast.
If you're perfect, yeah, youtrigger the other in the in a
worse way.
I mean, they think, oh, how isperfect this person speaks very
good English?
I cannot deal with it.
I cannot do a I cannot create apodcast because my English is
very bad.
(35:30):
And it's good to share the thelimit, also.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Francesca, this has been absolutely amazing.
Thank you so much for joining meon Vietnam Content Marketing.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!