August 20, 2026 • 26 mins
"The long form is necessary in order to get the full scope of everything, and the clip should feed curiosity enough to get the person to engage with the long form."
That's Carey, and it's the exact line that sparked this whole episode for me.
In this conversation, Carey and I got into why everything in media feels like it's "on fire" right now — constant tension, constant urgency — and why that pressure pushes so many creators toward short-form content without thinking about what it's actually for. We talked about what gets lost when clips try to stand alone, why a clip's real job is to spark curiosity instead of satisfy it, and how to actually build a bridge between your short-form content and your long-form work.
Carey also joined me here at Saigon Podcast Studio as part of the VPW crew for another episode of Outside the Ring — so there's a bit of a fun studio moment in here too.
5 Key Takeaways
- Media is built on manufactured tension. Nothing feels calm anymore — everything is framed as urgent or dramatic, and that pressure shapes how creators think about content.
- Short-form content can't carry the full story. A clip can spark a reaction, but it doesn't have room for context, nuance, or the reasoning behind an idea.
- A clip's job is to raise a question, not answer one. Clips that feel "complete" give people no reason to seek out more.
- Long-form content is where trust actually gets built. It's the only format with enough room to explain the "why" behind the "what."
- The best content strategy connects both formats. Short-form content should function as a doorway to long-form — not a replacement for it.
5 Chapters
- [00:00] Intro — Why Everything Feels Like It's On Fire
- [06:15] The Trap of Chasing Short-Form Content
- [13:40] What Gets Lost Without Long-Form
- [21:05] Clips Should Spark Curiosity, Not Satisfy It
- [25:30] Wrap-Up — Welcoming Outside the Ring to the Studio
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
This episode is sponsored by Saigon Podcast
Studio, premium podcastrecording space right in the
heart of District 1 Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(00:32):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Carrie, let's get started withour rapid fire openers.
Same questions every week.
Quick answers.
First question (00:49):
what is the best piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Consistency is key.
Post regularly, try anything,just throw it at the wall.
The worst thing you can do is tostop.
Listen to the comments heavily.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
What's the most important metric?
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I'm gonna be shallow and say views.
The more the more views, thebetter.
But engagement is great, butviews for me is is the most
important.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
And if you were to give someone advice who's
starting tomorrow from zero,what advice would you give them?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Just start.
Start creating, start editing,start posting.
Don't be married to ideas.
Just start.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
And last one, podcasts.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Oh, it's wonderful.
You get to learn about someone'spersonality, you get to have an
in-depth conversation, you getinsight into who they are.
So for me, I think podcasting isan amazing way to market.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
Now, in 2017, you watched Vietnam Pro Wrestling on
Judo Mat, very small audience.
Now you're at the stage whereyou've had a run of over 15
sold-out shows, named by Vetcetera as one of the fastest
or the fastest growing sportsorganization in Vietnam.
Wrestling is a sport most peoplein Vietnam don't really know
(02:08):
much about.
So how have you been able to usecontent marketing to turn this
into an almost household namenow and grow the sport so
dramatically?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yeah, I think like the the first thing is, you
know, with Vietnam ProWrestling, we are the country's
first and official kind of prowrestling promotion.
But I think a big thing from thestart, from when the guys
started, the thing that I thatalways stood out to me was how
unique they are.
So as you mentioned, like I metthe guys first when they were
wrestling on dirty judo mats,you know, and at that point they
(02:37):
had no ring, there was just 12of their friends, and I happened
to stumble across them onFacebook and saw that, you know,
despite the lack of productionvalue, they had a lot of heart
and they had something that theycould offer.
In 2018, I went back to Canadaand remained kind of seeing them
via social media.
But when I returned, I, youknow, reached out to them during
lockdowns.
I asked if they neededcommentary.
(02:58):
And from there, my role kind ofwith VPW started to grow.
But one of the things that Ifind most exciting is that
Vietnam pro wrestling, or atleast Vietnamese-style pro
wrestling, it's yet to bedefined.
There's there's Mexican style,there's Japanese style, there's
American style.
But with Vietnam, we have theability to kind of sculpt it and
shape it however we like.
And so I think from a contentperspective, the fun thing has
(03:20):
been to try to create a productthat resonates with locals and
expats alike, to try to createcharacters that resonate with
people that are a reflection oftheir culture and their
interests, and to just givepeople something that's new,
family-friendly,audience-facing.
And with our content, we reallytry to just show people that
Vietnam Pro Wrestling is aprofessional wrestling
(03:42):
promotion, but more importantly,it's the best night out you can
have in Vietnam.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
I agree with that.
I absolutely love it.
I was never a wrestling fangrowing up.
When you mentioned aboutcreating the characters, that is
something you know, all thewrestlers have their own all
their own characters.
And then you created one foryourself.
You said you started as acommentator, and then I remember
I when I met with you beforeyou'd ever before the expat had
ever debuted, and then youcreated this character called
(04:06):
The Expat, which I've seen nowin the shows is absolutely
beloved.
How important is creatingcharacters, not just for
yourself, but for the wrestlers?
How important is that for thestories, and then how important
is it for content marketing, notjust in the ring?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Sure.
So, in terms of my owncharacter, so my name is
actually Carrie, but mycharacter name is Xavier
Patrick's, aka the expat.
And one of the things I realizedwas when I first joined them as
ring announcer, the the guysunderstandably wanted me to be
very orthodox in how I did it.
You know, I was in my gray suit,stood up straight, used the deep
resonant voice, and I kind ofjust stayed in the background.
(04:43):
And one of the things I realizedwas that the audience wasn't
necessarily responding to thattype of delivery.
It felt almost stale, or maybe,maybe I just wasn't as good as
the people that I was trying toemulate.
You know, the like the Michaelbuffers, the Bruce buffers that
do it professionally.
So I started to realize like, Ithink I need to create a
character that speaks to theaudience that we had.
(05:05):
And at that point, we had, youknow, a lot of expats in the
crowd.
So I just leaned in hard andthought, well, I want to be a
reflection of them.
So I literally became XavierPatrick's the expat.
And when it comes to our roster,we try to empower them to kind
of create their own characters.
And myself alongside our head ofcreative Jody, we try to help
sculpt them so that the guys cancome out and look larger than
(05:27):
life.
The audience can resonate withthem, and they are interested in
them.
So from a content perspective,our big thing is the bigger the
character, the better.
And that doesn't mean likephysically bigger.
It means presentation.
When they enter, they theaudience should know exactly who
their character is, whetherthey're good or bad, whether
they're comedic, whether they'remore serious.
(05:49):
The their outfits, theirentrance music should speak to
the crowd.
And with content, we try tocapture the same thing.
We try to tell the story of whothese people are inside the
ring.
And we do our best to make surethat people have some level of
attachment to them or dislikingto them.
The worst thing in pro wrestlingis indifference.
So for us, it's all aboutcreating big, bold, strong
(06:10):
characters that allow our guysto kind of get out of their
shell and become the bestversions of themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
And have you seen that translate into content
marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Oh, a hundred percent.
For content, for example, we arealways trying to, when it comes
to matches, for example, wealways try to accentuate the
strengths and hide theweaknesses.
So for example, we aren't WWE,right?
We're not New Japan prowrestling.
We're not AEW in the US.
We're VPW.
But with that, one of the thingsthat we've did, especially in
(06:40):
building our content library,was we started to clip and only
show the strengths and only showthe moments that really
accentuate our guys' characters.
So the content became almostlike a filter for our guys to
look their best in terms oftheir movesets in the ring, but
also their characters.
We find the moments where thecharacter comes through and the
audience can go, oh, thatperson's a rapper, or that
(07:02):
person's the hero, or thatperson's like the muscular
villain.
And we do our best to try to usecontents to clip and accentuate
those strengths.
And for us, that was a hugegrowth point.
And when we started to clip andonly show the strengths, that
started to directly show ourprogress with our live event
ticket sales.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
So you use the storylines, you use the
characters to create these shortclips.
How do the short clips help selltickets and sell out 15 shows in
a row?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, the big thing I wouldsay is that one attention spans
can only take so much in today'sday and age, right?
People swipe quickly.
So the short clips, again, ifwe're showing someone's
strengths or showing someone inthe character pose that's stands
out, that person on the otherside is more likely to stay in
and watch that clip because it'sit stands out.
Our product is meant to be acelebration of Vietnamese
(07:52):
culture, but amplified.
So that's the one thing is thatit allowed our guys to look like
big stars without usoverexposing them.
And that was important.
Nowadays, we use long-formcontent.
We have full libraries of fullmatches.
But in the early days, what hadhappened was it felt like
audiences got given almost likean appetizer to the show.
(08:13):
And then they would come see thefull thing.
And that was the only place theycould see the full show at that
time.
Now with our full videos, youcan get that all online.
But it the it was almost likemultiple different trailers were
being created in the clips.
And it made people curious aboutwhere is this show?
How do I get a ticket?
And we started to see thecorrelation between those clips
numbers going up and our ticketsales going up.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
In 2023, you reached out to Chris Jericho, one of the
biggest names from wrestling,WWE, and it ended up with you
and Rocky, the founder of VPW,being on his show, the Talk to
Jericho podcast, sharing the VPWstory for a full hour.
What made you reach out to oneof the biggest wrestling stars
and want to be on his podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Shameless Plug.
The documentary that came out ofthat podcast, Viet Slam,
Squashing the Cultural Gap, it'sout now.
I kind of cover a little bit ofthat, and I'm happy to cover it
here as well.
So what ended up happening was Iwas just working with the guys
mainly as kind of an outsideadvisor, and I was helping with
the ring announcing.
But at that point, I felt reallyno need and didn't have
(09:15):
necessarily the time or energyto really fully commit to
helping VPEW beyond what I wasat that time.
But what I started to notice wasthat our guys kept running into
roadblocks, things that, youknow, opportunities that would
come their way and then kind ofbe pulled away from them.
And I realized that I might nothave the finance to be able to
(09:36):
change these guys' lives or tobe able to grow this company or
scale it to the way the degree Ithought it could be.
But I was a little bit kind ofcrazy in my ability to think
outside the box and just reach,you know, go big.
So I thought of a list ofpodcasts that might work well to
share our guy's story.
One of the most compellingthings about Vietnam Pro
(09:58):
Wrestling is our guy's story.
They came from nothing.
They've slowly built themselvesup through community.
They were able to fund getting aprofessional wrestling ring, and
they're really trying to changeVietnam for the better by
bringing professional wrestling,a family-friendly form of
entertainment to the country.
So I love that it resonated withme.
And I thought, I guaranteethere's at least someone out
(10:19):
there in the wrestling worldthat has a podcast in the
wrestling sphere that would lovethis story.
And I thought, who would be themost insane person to reach out
to?
And the first person was ChrisJericho.
So I kind of looked around,found on like his Web is Jericho
website a little contact us.
I sent a cold email outliningthe story I just shared.
(10:39):
Like these guys are trying tochange history.
This is an amazing opportunity.
Chris actually was born 45minutes from where I where I was
in Canada.
I'm also Canadian.
He was born in Winnipeg.
I was born in Kenora.
So there's that little kind ofCanadian connection.
And I just shared that story.
And thankfully, his producerStacy got back and said, Chris
would love to have you on.
And so that was really a hugeturning point for us because it
(11:03):
reminded me that as much asVietnam Pro Wrestling is live
events and our content, that'san important thing.
The most important thing, Ithink, from a marketing
standpoint is the authenticstory.
You know, these guys are doingeverything in their power to
defy the impossible.
They're trying to break downcultural barriers, family
(11:23):
barriers, economic barriers, andeven just themselves, the the
all the resilience they have tohave in order to keep pushing
forward.
And so by going on the Talk isJericho podcast, I mean that
essentially changed my life andtheir lives forever.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Yeah.
And did you understand at thetime how big one podcast
appearance could be?
That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
So the way I'd look at it is this I did not
understand how big it could be,but I treated the episode like
it could be big.
So what I mean by that is Iworked with Rocky in terms of
getting him, you know, to uhwrapping his mind around
essentially like what theinterview might look like.
It's not a matter of coaching,it's almost like I essentially
(12:07):
made a playbook of here's thehistory of VPW, here's how the
conversation might go, andhere's some things we might want
to touch on to really showcaseVPW at the highest level.
I think like preparation for anykind of discussion at that level
is important.
And what the other thing I toldRocky was, you know, he's gonna
have a hard time bragging aboutsome of his achievements.
(12:30):
And that I I get that.
If someone's like, you're thefounder, you've brought
wrestling to Vietnam, it mightbe difficult for Rocky to kind
of like step in and share thegravitas, if you will, of his
accolades.
And so I just put him at comfortand I said, you know, you can
tag me in, just like wrestling.
Whenever you feel like, youknow, there's something that I
you want me to add context orpuff him up a bit, I can do
(12:51):
that.
And and that really served uswell, where Rocky was the face,
he was the story.
And I kind of became almost whatI'd say is like a historian
contextualizer.
But so I treated this like itwas going to be the biggest
moment, but I didn't expect thatwithin an hour or so after the
interview that then Chris wouldmessage me and say via email, I
(13:14):
want to make a movie about this.
Like it happened that fast wherehe expressed an interest.
But I do think that it's atestament to what Rocky and I
did beforehand.
We prepared big and we treatedthis like the Super Bowl, the
World Cup, you know?
This was big.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
It's crazy to see just what a difference one
podcast can make.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Yeah, it's it's amazing.
The other thing I'll also say isthat when I knew I was gonna be
a guest on the podcast,obviously I felt a little bit
like the our other wrestlerswere being a bit over
overshadowed, right?
Because they are also the story.
So what I had each of them do, Isaid, listen, if you guys want
to send a message to Jericho,why don't we film them and it's
(13:54):
just you to camera, and I'llcompile a folder and we'll
privately share.
We don't need to make thispublic.
I'll just send him the GoogleDrive folder and you guys can
send your message to Jericho.
So each of them took the time tofilm and share their kind of
like gratitude towards him, hiscareer, what he meant to them.
And I sent that to him the daybefore the interview.
And I think that also wassomething that helped our
(14:14):
relationship kind of like bloombetween Chris, myself, and VPW,
because he was able to, youknow, be given uh gratitude in
advance of the interview.
But that to me was reallyimportant because, like I said,
I'm a Canadian here about totalk about Vietnam pro
wrestling.
It didn't feel fair, so I wasreally happy that our guys had
the ability to kind of addresshim personally and to have their
(14:36):
messages seen by him.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
So now VPW has its own podcast.
I'm really excited to sayOutside the Ring, hosted by Fung
Nam from Saigon TU, and it'salso recorded right here in
Saigon Podcast Studio.
I reached out to you after Iwent to one of your shows.
I think it I'd been to onebefore, a few years before, and
then I went again about a yearago, and I was just the energy
(15:00):
in the room was amazing.
It was just that it got me.
I got I got it for the firsttime.
I'd not been into wrestlinggrowing up at all.
My friend had been, I neverreally got it.
I'd been to the show before, Iguess I just didn't really get
it.
And then I went and I justlooked around and I saw the
audience reacting, felt theenergy, the characters, I guess,
the storylines, and I just lovedit.
And I reached out to you and Iwas like, let's do a podcast
(15:22):
together.
This will be amazing.
Why do you think a podcast is sogood for VPW?
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Well, that's a good question.
I mean, we we are living in atime now where wrestling is kind
of exposed, where we have aNetflix WWE Unreal, you get a
full behind the scenes, you getto learn about the people behind
the characters, you get to seewhat life is like as a wrestler,
not just in the ring, butoutside of the ring.
And I think one of our barriersto entry here has been that for
(15:52):
so long our guys might have beenperceived to the general public
as almost like wannabes.
And I guess anyone trying to dosomething new anywhere has to
start as a wannabe becauseyou're the first.
So we had our guys with theirover-the-top characters.
They were, you know, bigpersonalities.
But what I we found was that theaudience felt like they didn't
(16:14):
fully connect to them becausethey didn't know who they were
in real life.
So when we talked about doing apodcast, the the big goal with
that was how do we allow theaudience to understand who these
people are behind the scenes andform a personal connection with
them, not just as wrestlers, butas people.
And I think the podcast has donereally well with that.
Like one of our big focuses ison having the guys talk about
(16:36):
their top fives or favoritemoments.
And I think it's important forpeople in Vietnam and beyond to
realize that they all startedlike you.
They were fans.
They were, they were peoplewatching WWE and saying, man, I
wish I had the opportunity to dothis.
And now they are.
So for us, the podcast hasserved as a great kind of bridge
between who our guys are insidethe ring and who they are
(16:59):
outside the ring.
And our fans get to learn alittle bit about who they are.
And also, long term, that wouldthat will allow us to recruit
easier because people willidentify with them through the
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
And one thing was you made a decision early on, I
know, to do the podcast inVietnamese.
And I think it would be so easyto do it in English.
I know I make the same mistakes.
We're doing this podcast inEnglish right now, we're talking
about Vietnam.
And so, as a non-native speaker,as non-Vietnamese, I think it
just would have been really easyfor you to be like, okay, I'm
gonna be the host, I'm gonna doit, we're gonna be in English,
(17:31):
we're gonna reach out to all theexpats.
We have a lot of expat audiencein our show.
Why did you choose to do it inVietnamese?
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
So, for to give context, a Vietnam pro wrestling
audience is, you know, we have ahuge amount of expats and we
have locals as well.
I think for the expats, they allwe they like our show because
it's a wrestling event.
They love our guys, and nomatter their size, no matter who
they are, they are on boardbecause it's just such a fun
night out.
(17:58):
I think for our Vietnameseaudience, again, there is that
barrier of who does this personthink he is?
Why are they dressed up in thismask or these big outfits or
acting really, you know, in anextroverted manner?
Who do they think they are?
You know, and I get that.
So what what we really wanted totarget was a Vietnamese
audience.
We want our guys to connect withlocals here so that they can
(18:24):
see, like I said earlier, thatthey're just like them.
So for us, it was always ano-brainer.
Like it needed to be inVietnamese language for a
Vietnamese audience and to buildthat bridge of connecting our
talent to the public.
And I think it's worked reallywell.
I mean, the clips have goneviral multiple times.
The stories, we get a lot ofengagement with them, and that's
(18:45):
important as well.
Whether it's good or bad,anytime you say a top three, you
get engagement because peoplewill will debate it.
But for us, the Vietnameselanguage is a focus, and even
long term, we just launcheddoing Vietnamese commentary on
our full matches the first timeever.
And that was important for us aswell because we really want to
become a household name.
We want VPW to equate to WWE,but in Vietnam.
(19:09):
And the best way and the onlyway, to be honest with you, to
do that is to do it inVietnamese language.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
And it's been amazing having Fung Nam here in
the studio from Saigon to you.
How has the reaction been frompeople like Fung Nam and the
wrestlers coming into a podcastenvironment?
Because I know from speaking tothem when they're here, for most
of them, I think it's theirfirst time ever doing a podcast,
never mind coming into a podcaststudio.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Yeah, well, I think for them they they feel honored
because they're given a platformwhere they get to share their
stories and they know that theperson interviewing them, Fung
Nam, is interested in havingtheir story told to the best of
their abilities.
So for our talent, it's great.
And I also think there's a lotof warming in that needs to
happen with it.
(19:54):
So you can probably tell whenthey first are in the chair, it
takes a bit to warm up, but Ireally do think that they enjoy
having the ability to sharetheir own individual stories.
Every single one of them cameinto VPW in a similar way, but
also a different manner.
So it's been it's been nice forme to be a fly in the wall for
those interviews and to get tosee the guy shine and to be able
(20:16):
to tell people their individualstory.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
It's definitely one of my highlights from having
this studio is the memories ofhaving the studio packed full of
wrestlers.
It's been so fun.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
It's the best.
No, it's it's been an honor tobe here and to to have them, you
know, to for them to be given acomfortable platform to share
who they are.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Now I know as a OG podcaster, as I like to call
myself, that when people thinkof podcasts, they think of
audio.
And I love that, and theyshould.
And your podcast is availablefor audio.
But what a lot of people do ordon't realize, because
everyone's different, somepeople don't realize a podcast
can be any medium, so it can beTikTok.
I know for a fact I read areport last year that a lot of
(20:58):
people think of a podcast asanything with a microphone.
So they see something on TikTok,it's a podcast.
So it can be the audio, it canbe the short clips that we've
talked about, and they do reallywell, but it also can be the
long form on YouTube.
And I think we are all soobsessed with short form content
these days.
Like you said, we there's I Idon't fully agree that we all
have short attention spans.
(21:19):
We have short attention spanswhen we're when we're scrolling,
when we choose to do thatactivity, but people are still
reading books, they're stillwatching movies.
As we know, the movies can bethree hours long.
People will give it their fullattention span, and they are
still watching YouTube videos.
Your videos are amazing.
You obviously, so when you dothe podcast here, you do the
audio, then you clip it all up.
(21:40):
How are the how are the YouTubevideos performing?
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Yeah, they're doing really well for us.
I I think the great thing aboutit is that with any long form
content, it gives the personbeing interviewed, the
interviewer, and then the personwatching time to like delve into
a long form conversation.
I know one of our strategieswas.
To begin was to actually put inthe title of the videos things
(22:04):
that we allude to from themainstream to help build
engagement.
So, for example, let's say theperson talks about John Cena,
refers to WWE.
We'd have the title of thepodcast and put like John John
Cena, WWE.
I think for people, when theystumble across that, they're
excited to see these topicsexplored.
The other thing I'd say is thatwith it being in Vietnamese
(22:26):
language, we wanted to achievetwo things.
And the long form does both ofthese.
The first half is the story ofthe wrestler.
How can we best get that talentto communicate who they are, how
they got into wrestling, alittle bit about their
character, their highlights,focus the first half on them.
And then the other half is whatI call barbershop talk.
(22:46):
So that's the classic likepeople debating Man U versus Man
City.
In an American context, it couldbe like the Jets versus the
Giants and football.
It's people who are debatingwho's the best, who's the worst.
And so I wanted to also dedicatethe second half to that, where
people can, for the first time,because there's no other podcast
(23:07):
that I know of doing this inVietnam and long form content.
You can listen to people debateor at least make top three
selections of the best and theworst.
And that to me, I think is whypeople gravitate towards the
long form.
They get to not only learn aboutthe person, but they learn about
their opinions.
(23:27):
And we try our best to make surethat the opinions are really
strong because that drivesengagement.
And if I say AJ Styles is thegreatest high flyer of all time,
I am throwing out an opinionthat others can quickly debate
in the comment section.
So for a YouTube perspective, Ithink our numbers are doing
well, but it's also a testamentto the format that we've laid
(23:48):
out for our guys, which is that50-50, 50% personal, 50% you,
you know, barbershop talk.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah.
One of the things that I get alot is I say a lot, but often,
is people say we just want tomake short form clips.
Why is it better?
I always say to people it's notpossible really.
Why is it not possible to justcome in and create some short
form clips?
Why do you have to do the longform to get the short form?
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
If the focus is only on short form clips, it kind of
alters the focus of theinterview, which is to always be
clippable.
And so you're losing the abilityto just get into that flow state
of a conversation.
So, and I honestly believe thatsome of our best clips, even
(24:39):
though let's say it's a topthree, they are still engaging
because the person has beenwarmed into the conversation at
that point.
Like I said, it for us is thesecond half where we do that
type of content.
And the reason is is whensomeone's talking about
themselves, they can getcomfortable and come and feel at
ease.
So then when you're looking formore clippable content, they are
(25:00):
already in that comfortablestate, but you can't get there
unless they're feelingcomfortable.
So I think long form isnecessary to get the atmosphere
you need to create clipsafterwards.
But if the clips is the onlything you're focused on, it's
very inorganic.
And it will be it'll be feltthat way as a viewer.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
I was literally about to say the same thing.
It would be inauthentic.
Because I've seen it looks likean ad.
Have you seen this when you seepeople and you're like, I can
tell you've just startedspeaking.
Right.
Like this video has been made ofthis content.
It's kind of like, okay, action,say the question.
I'm gonna say the answer.
It's so inorganic, inauthentic,right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's two-staged.
And I think that even in shortform clips, you want the person
to still come across authentic.
I I notice it a lot when itcomes to sports content in
relation to giving like hottakes, you know, where you can
tell the the directive is shortclips that will go viral.
(26:01):
So the entire long form segment,if you ever go to YouTube and
watch some of these long formsegments where you're seeing
these clips taken from, theperson is just there, it's
almost like they're never cool.
They're always on fire.
Everything is just a moment tocreate, you know, tension.
And so, anyways, long storyshort, I do think, yes, the long
form is necessary in order toget the full scope of
(26:24):
everything.
And the clip should feedcuriosity enough to get the
person to engage with the longform.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Exactly.
Carrie, thank you so much forcoming on VNAM Content
Marketing.
I'm really excited to have theVPW guys back in here in Saigon
Podcast Studio for anotherepisode of Outside the Ring.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Thank you.
And it's an honor to have thepodcast done here at the Saigon
Podcast Studio.
This episode is sponsored by Saigon Podcast
Studio, premium podcastrecording space right in the
heart of District 1 Saigon.
Whether you're launching yourfirst show, recording
interviews, or creatingprofessional audio and video
content, Saigon Podcast Studiogives you the space, equipment,
and support to sound and lookyour best.
(00:32):
Come by for a free tour of thestudio and see where your next
great episode could be recorded.
The link is in the show notes.
Carrie, let's get started withour rapid fire openers.
Same questions every week.
Quick answers.
First question (00:49):
what is the best piece of content marketing
advice you've ever been given?
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Consistency is key.
Post regularly, try anything,just throw it at the wall.
The worst thing you can do is tostop.
Listen to the comments heavily.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
What's the most important metric?
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
I'm gonna be shallow and say views.
The more the more views, thebetter.
But engagement is great, butviews for me is is the most
important.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
And if you were to give someone advice who's
starting tomorrow from zero,what advice would you give them?
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Just start.
Start creating, start editing,start posting.
Don't be married to ideas.
Just start.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
And last one, podcasts.
Great for content marketing.
Why or why not?
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Oh, it's wonderful.
You get to learn about someone'spersonality, you get to have an
in-depth conversation, you getinsight into who they are.
So for me, I think podcasting isan amazing way to market.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
Now, in 2017, you watched Vietnam Pro Wrestling on
Judo Mat, very small audience.
Now you're at the stage whereyou've had a run of over 15
sold-out shows, named by Vetcetera as one of the fastest
or the fastest growing sportsorganization in Vietnam.
Wrestling is a sport most peoplein Vietnam don't really know
(02:08):
much about.
So how have you been able to usecontent marketing to turn this
into an almost household namenow and grow the sport so
dramatically?
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Yeah, I think like the the first thing is, you
know, with Vietnam ProWrestling, we are the country's
first and official kind of prowrestling promotion.
But I think a big thing from thestart, from when the guys
started, the thing that I thatalways stood out to me was how
unique they are.
So as you mentioned, like I metthe guys first when they were
wrestling on dirty judo mats,you know, and at that point they
(02:37):
had no ring, there was just 12of their friends, and I happened
to stumble across them onFacebook and saw that, you know,
despite the lack of productionvalue, they had a lot of heart
and they had something that theycould offer.
In 2018, I went back to Canadaand remained kind of seeing them
via social media.
But when I returned, I, youknow, reached out to them during
lockdowns.
I asked if they neededcommentary.
(02:58):
And from there, my role kind ofwith VPW started to grow.
But one of the things that Ifind most exciting is that
Vietnam pro wrestling, or atleast Vietnamese-style pro
wrestling, it's yet to bedefined.
There's there's Mexican style,there's Japanese style, there's
American style.
But with Vietnam, we have theability to kind of sculpt it and
shape it however we like.
And so I think from a contentperspective, the fun thing has
(03:20):
been to try to create a productthat resonates with locals and
expats alike, to try to createcharacters that resonate with
people that are a reflection oftheir culture and their
interests, and to just givepeople something that's new,
family-friendly,audience-facing.
And with our content, we reallytry to just show people that
Vietnam Pro Wrestling is aprofessional wrestling
(03:42):
promotion, but more importantly,it's the best night out you can
have in Vietnam.
SPEAKER_00 (03:45):
I agree with that.
I absolutely love it.
I was never a wrestling fangrowing up.
When you mentioned aboutcreating the characters, that is
something you know, all thewrestlers have their own all
their own characters.
And then you created one foryourself.
You said you started as acommentator, and then I remember
I when I met with you beforeyou'd ever before the expat had
ever debuted, and then youcreated this character called
(04:06):
The Expat, which I've seen nowin the shows is absolutely
beloved.
How important is creatingcharacters, not just for
yourself, but for the wrestlers?
How important is that for thestories, and then how important
is it for content marketing, notjust in the ring?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Sure.
So, in terms of my owncharacter, so my name is
actually Carrie, but mycharacter name is Xavier
Patrick's, aka the expat.
And one of the things I realizedwas when I first joined them as
ring announcer, the the guysunderstandably wanted me to be
very orthodox in how I did it.
You know, I was in my gray suit,stood up straight, used the deep
resonant voice, and I kind ofjust stayed in the background.
(04:43):
And one of the things I realizedwas that the audience wasn't
necessarily responding to thattype of delivery.
It felt almost stale, or maybe,maybe I just wasn't as good as
the people that I was trying toemulate.
You know, the like the Michaelbuffers, the Bruce buffers that
do it professionally.
So I started to realize like, Ithink I need to create a
character that speaks to theaudience that we had.
(05:05):
And at that point, we had, youknow, a lot of expats in the
crowd.
So I just leaned in hard andthought, well, I want to be a
reflection of them.
So I literally became XavierPatrick's the expat.
And when it comes to our roster,we try to empower them to kind
of create their own characters.
And myself alongside our head ofcreative Jody, we try to help
sculpt them so that the guys cancome out and look larger than
(05:27):
life.
The audience can resonate withthem, and they are interested in
them.
So from a content perspective,our big thing is the bigger the
character, the better.
And that doesn't mean likephysically bigger.
It means presentation.
When they enter, they theaudience should know exactly who
their character is, whetherthey're good or bad, whether
they're comedic, whether they'remore serious.
(05:49):
The their outfits, theirentrance music should speak to
the crowd.
And with content, we try tocapture the same thing.
We try to tell the story of whothese people are inside the
ring.
And we do our best to make surethat people have some level of
attachment to them or dislikingto them.
The worst thing in pro wrestlingis indifference.
So for us, it's all aboutcreating big, bold, strong
(06:10):
characters that allow our guysto kind of get out of their
shell and become the bestversions of themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
And have you seen that translate into content
marketing?
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
Oh, a hundred percent.
For content, for example, we arealways trying to, when it comes
to matches, for example, wealways try to accentuate the
strengths and hide theweaknesses.
So for example, we aren't WWE,right?
We're not New Japan prowrestling.
We're not AEW in the US.
We're VPW.
But with that, one of the thingsthat we've did, especially in
(06:40):
building our content library,was we started to clip and only
show the strengths and only showthe moments that really
accentuate our guys' characters.
So the content became almostlike a filter for our guys to
look their best in terms oftheir movesets in the ring, but
also their characters.
We find the moments where thecharacter comes through and the
audience can go, oh, thatperson's a rapper, or that
(07:02):
person's the hero, or thatperson's like the muscular
villain.
And we do our best to try to usecontents to clip and accentuate
those strengths.
And for us, that was a hugegrowth point.
And when we started to clip andonly show the strengths, that
started to directly show ourprogress with our live event
ticket sales.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
So you use the storylines, you use the
characters to create these shortclips.
How do the short clips help selltickets and sell out 15 shows in
a row?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, the big thing I wouldsay is that one attention spans
can only take so much in today'sday and age, right?
People swipe quickly.
So the short clips, again, ifwe're showing someone's
strengths or showing someone inthe character pose that's stands
out, that person on the otherside is more likely to stay in
and watch that clip because it'sit stands out.
Our product is meant to be acelebration of Vietnamese
(07:52):
culture, but amplified.
So that's the one thing is thatit allowed our guys to look like
big stars without usoverexposing them.
And that was important.
Nowadays, we use long-formcontent.
We have full libraries of fullmatches.
But in the early days, what hadhappened was it felt like
audiences got given almost likean appetizer to the show.
(08:13):
And then they would come see thefull thing.
And that was the only place theycould see the full show at that
time.
Now with our full videos, youcan get that all online.
But it the it was almost likemultiple different trailers were
being created in the clips.
And it made people curious aboutwhere is this show?
How do I get a ticket?
And we started to see thecorrelation between those clips
numbers going up and our ticketsales going up.
SPEAKER_00 (08:33):
In 2023, you reached out to Chris Jericho, one of the
biggest names from wrestling,WWE, and it ended up with you
and Rocky, the founder of VPW,being on his show, the Talk to
Jericho podcast, sharing the VPWstory for a full hour.
What made you reach out to oneof the biggest wrestling stars
and want to be on his podcast?
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
Shameless Plug.
The documentary that came out ofthat podcast, Viet Slam,
Squashing the Cultural Gap, it'sout now.
I kind of cover a little bit ofthat, and I'm happy to cover it
here as well.
So what ended up happening was Iwas just working with the guys
mainly as kind of an outsideadvisor, and I was helping with
the ring announcing.
But at that point, I felt reallyno need and didn't have
(09:15):
necessarily the time or energyto really fully commit to
helping VPEW beyond what I wasat that time.
But what I started to notice wasthat our guys kept running into
roadblocks, things that, youknow, opportunities that would
come their way and then kind ofbe pulled away from them.
And I realized that I might nothave the finance to be able to
(09:36):
change these guys' lives or tobe able to grow this company or
scale it to the way the degree Ithought it could be.
But I was a little bit kind ofcrazy in my ability to think
outside the box and just reach,you know, go big.
So I thought of a list ofpodcasts that might work well to
share our guy's story.
One of the most compellingthings about Vietnam Pro
(09:58):
Wrestling is our guy's story.
They came from nothing.
They've slowly built themselvesup through community.
They were able to fund getting aprofessional wrestling ring, and
they're really trying to changeVietnam for the better by
bringing professional wrestling,a family-friendly form of
entertainment to the country.
So I love that it resonated withme.
And I thought, I guaranteethere's at least someone out
(10:19):
there in the wrestling worldthat has a podcast in the
wrestling sphere that would lovethis story.
And I thought, who would be themost insane person to reach out
to?
And the first person was ChrisJericho.
So I kind of looked around,found on like his Web is Jericho
website a little contact us.
I sent a cold email outliningthe story I just shared.
(10:39):
Like these guys are trying tochange history.
This is an amazing opportunity.
Chris actually was born 45minutes from where I where I was
in Canada.
I'm also Canadian.
He was born in Winnipeg.
I was born in Kenora.
So there's that little kind ofCanadian connection.
And I just shared that story.
And thankfully, his producerStacy got back and said, Chris
would love to have you on.
And so that was really a hugeturning point for us because it
(11:03):
reminded me that as much asVietnam Pro Wrestling is live
events and our content, that'san important thing.
The most important thing, Ithink, from a marketing
standpoint is the authenticstory.
You know, these guys are doingeverything in their power to
defy the impossible.
They're trying to break downcultural barriers, family
(11:23):
barriers, economic barriers, andeven just themselves, the the
all the resilience they have tohave in order to keep pushing
forward.
And so by going on the Talk isJericho podcast, I mean that
essentially changed my life andtheir lives forever.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
Yeah.
And did you understand at thetime how big one podcast
appearance could be?
That's a good question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
So the way I'd look at it is this I did not
understand how big it could be,but I treated the episode like
it could be big.
So what I mean by that is Iworked with Rocky in terms of
getting him, you know, to uhwrapping his mind around
essentially like what theinterview might look like.
It's not a matter of coaching,it's almost like I essentially
(12:07):
made a playbook of here's thehistory of VPW, here's how the
conversation might go, andhere's some things we might want
to touch on to really showcaseVPW at the highest level.
I think like preparation for anykind of discussion at that level
is important.
And what the other thing I toldRocky was, you know, he's gonna
have a hard time bragging aboutsome of his achievements.
(12:30):
And that I I get that.
If someone's like, you're thefounder, you've brought
wrestling to Vietnam, it mightbe difficult for Rocky to kind
of like step in and share thegravitas, if you will, of his
accolades.
And so I just put him at comfortand I said, you know, you can
tag me in, just like wrestling.
Whenever you feel like, youknow, there's something that I
you want me to add context orpuff him up a bit, I can do
(12:51):
that.
And and that really served uswell, where Rocky was the face,
he was the story.
And I kind of became almost whatI'd say is like a historian
contextualizer.
But so I treated this like itwas going to be the biggest
moment, but I didn't expect thatwithin an hour or so after the
interview that then Chris wouldmessage me and say via email, I
(13:14):
want to make a movie about this.
Like it happened that fast wherehe expressed an interest.
But I do think that it's atestament to what Rocky and I
did beforehand.
We prepared big and we treatedthis like the Super Bowl, the
World Cup, you know?
This was big.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
It's crazy to see just what a difference one
podcast can make.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Yeah, it's it's amazing.
The other thing I'll also say isthat when I knew I was gonna be
a guest on the podcast,obviously I felt a little bit
like the our other wrestlerswere being a bit over
overshadowed, right?
Because they are also the story.
So what I had each of them do, Isaid, listen, if you guys want
to send a message to Jericho,why don't we film them and it's
(13:54):
just you to camera, and I'llcompile a folder and we'll
privately share.
We don't need to make thispublic.
I'll just send him the GoogleDrive folder and you guys can
send your message to Jericho.
So each of them took the time tofilm and share their kind of
like gratitude towards him, hiscareer, what he meant to them.
And I sent that to him the daybefore the interview.
And I think that also wassomething that helped our
(14:14):
relationship kind of like bloombetween Chris, myself, and VPW,
because he was able to, youknow, be given uh gratitude in
advance of the interview.
But that to me was reallyimportant because, like I said,
I'm a Canadian here about totalk about Vietnam pro
wrestling.
It didn't feel fair, so I wasreally happy that our guys had
the ability to kind of addresshim personally and to have their
(14:36):
messages seen by him.
SPEAKER_00 (14:38):
So now VPW has its own podcast.
I'm really excited to sayOutside the Ring, hosted by Fung
Nam from Saigon TU, and it'salso recorded right here in
Saigon Podcast Studio.
I reached out to you after Iwent to one of your shows.
I think it I'd been to onebefore, a few years before, and
then I went again about a yearago, and I was just the energy
(15:00):
in the room was amazing.
It was just that it got me.
I got I got it for the firsttime.
I'd not been into wrestlinggrowing up at all.
My friend had been, I neverreally got it.
I'd been to the show before, Iguess I just didn't really get
it.
And then I went and I justlooked around and I saw the
audience reacting, felt theenergy, the characters, I guess,
the storylines, and I just lovedit.
And I reached out to you and Iwas like, let's do a podcast
(15:22):
together.
This will be amazing.
Why do you think a podcast is sogood for VPW?
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Well, that's a good question.
I mean, we we are living in atime now where wrestling is kind
of exposed, where we have aNetflix WWE Unreal, you get a
full behind the scenes, you getto learn about the people behind
the characters, you get to seewhat life is like as a wrestler,
not just in the ring, butoutside of the ring.
And I think one of our barriersto entry here has been that for
(15:52):
so long our guys might have beenperceived to the general public
as almost like wannabes.
And I guess anyone trying to dosomething new anywhere has to
start as a wannabe becauseyou're the first.
So we had our guys with theirover-the-top characters.
They were, you know, bigpersonalities.
But what I we found was that theaudience felt like they didn't
(16:14):
fully connect to them becausethey didn't know who they were
in real life.
So when we talked about doing apodcast, the the big goal with
that was how do we allow theaudience to understand who these
people are behind the scenes andform a personal connection with
them, not just as wrestlers, butas people.
And I think the podcast has donereally well with that.
Like one of our big focuses ison having the guys talk about
(16:36):
their top fives or favoritemoments.
And I think it's important forpeople in Vietnam and beyond to
realize that they all startedlike you.
They were fans.
They were, they were peoplewatching WWE and saying, man, I
wish I had the opportunity to dothis.
And now they are.
So for us, the podcast hasserved as a great kind of bridge
between who our guys are insidethe ring and who they are
(16:59):
outside the ring.
And our fans get to learn alittle bit about who they are.
And also, long term, that wouldthat will allow us to recruit
easier because people willidentify with them through the
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
And one thing was you made a decision early on, I
know, to do the podcast inVietnamese.
And I think it would be so easyto do it in English.
I know I make the same mistakes.
We're doing this podcast inEnglish right now, we're talking
about Vietnam.
And so, as a non-native speaker,as non-Vietnamese, I think it
just would have been really easyfor you to be like, okay, I'm
gonna be the host, I'm gonna doit, we're gonna be in English,
(17:31):
we're gonna reach out to all theexpats.
We have a lot of expat audiencein our show.
Why did you choose to do it inVietnamese?
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
So, for to give context, a Vietnam pro wrestling
audience is, you know, we have ahuge amount of expats and we
have locals as well.
I think for the expats, they allwe they like our show because
it's a wrestling event.
They love our guys, and nomatter their size, no matter who
they are, they are on boardbecause it's just such a fun
night out.
(17:58):
I think for our Vietnameseaudience, again, there is that
barrier of who does this personthink he is?
Why are they dressed up in thismask or these big outfits or
acting really, you know, in anextroverted manner?
Who do they think they are?
You know, and I get that.
So what what we really wanted totarget was a Vietnamese
audience.
We want our guys to connect withlocals here so that they can
(18:24):
see, like I said earlier, thatthey're just like them.
So for us, it was always ano-brainer.
Like it needed to be inVietnamese language for a
Vietnamese audience and to buildthat bridge of connecting our
talent to the public.
And I think it's worked reallywell.
I mean, the clips have goneviral multiple times.
The stories, we get a lot ofengagement with them, and that's
(18:45):
important as well.
Whether it's good or bad,anytime you say a top three, you
get engagement because peoplewill will debate it.
But for us, the Vietnameselanguage is a focus, and even
long term, we just launcheddoing Vietnamese commentary on
our full matches the first timeever.
And that was important for us aswell because we really want to
become a household name.
We want VPW to equate to WWE,but in Vietnam.
(19:09):
And the best way and the onlyway, to be honest with you, to
do that is to do it inVietnamese language.
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
And it's been amazing having Fung Nam here in
the studio from Saigon to you.
How has the reaction been frompeople like Fung Nam and the
wrestlers coming into a podcastenvironment?
Because I know from speaking tothem when they're here, for most
of them, I think it's theirfirst time ever doing a podcast,
never mind coming into a podcaststudio.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Yeah, well, I think for them they they feel honored
because they're given a platformwhere they get to share their
stories and they know that theperson interviewing them, Fung
Nam, is interested in havingtheir story told to the best of
their abilities.
So for our talent, it's great.
And I also think there's a lotof warming in that needs to
happen with it.
(19:54):
So you can probably tell whenthey first are in the chair, it
takes a bit to warm up, but Ireally do think that they enjoy
having the ability to sharetheir own individual stories.
Every single one of them cameinto VPW in a similar way, but
also a different manner.
So it's been it's been nice forme to be a fly in the wall for
those interviews and to get tosee the guy shine and to be able
(20:16):
to tell people their individualstory.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
It's definitely one of my highlights from having
this studio is the memories ofhaving the studio packed full of
wrestlers.
It's been so fun.
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
It's the best.
No, it's it's been an honor tobe here and to to have them, you
know, to for them to be given acomfortable platform to share
who they are.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Now I know as a OG podcaster, as I like to call
myself, that when people thinkof podcasts, they think of
audio.
And I love that, and theyshould.
And your podcast is availablefor audio.
But what a lot of people do ordon't realize, because
everyone's different, somepeople don't realize a podcast
can be any medium, so it can beTikTok.
I know for a fact I read areport last year that a lot of
(20:58):
people think of a podcast asanything with a microphone.
So they see something on TikTok,it's a podcast.
So it can be the audio, it canbe the short clips that we've
talked about, and they do reallywell, but it also can be the
long form on YouTube.
And I think we are all soobsessed with short form content
these days.
Like you said, we there's I Idon't fully agree that we all
have short attention spans.
(21:19):
We have short attention spanswhen we're when we're scrolling,
when we choose to do thatactivity, but people are still
reading books, they're stillwatching movies.
As we know, the movies can bethree hours long.
People will give it their fullattention span, and they are
still watching YouTube videos.
Your videos are amazing.
You obviously, so when you dothe podcast here, you do the
audio, then you clip it all up.
(21:40):
How are the how are the YouTubevideos performing?
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Yeah, they're doing really well for us.
I I think the great thing aboutit is that with any long form
content, it gives the personbeing interviewed, the
interviewer, and then the personwatching time to like delve into
a long form conversation.
I know one of our strategieswas.
To begin was to actually put inthe title of the videos things
(22:04):
that we allude to from themainstream to help build
engagement.
So, for example, let's say theperson talks about John Cena,
refers to WWE.
We'd have the title of thepodcast and put like John John
Cena, WWE.
I think for people, when theystumble across that, they're
excited to see these topicsexplored.
The other thing I'd say is thatwith it being in Vietnamese
(22:26):
language, we wanted to achievetwo things.
And the long form does both ofthese.
The first half is the story ofthe wrestler.
How can we best get that talentto communicate who they are, how
they got into wrestling, alittle bit about their
character, their highlights,focus the first half on them.
And then the other half is whatI call barbershop talk.
(22:46):
So that's the classic likepeople debating Man U versus Man
City.
In an American context, it couldbe like the Jets versus the
Giants and football.
It's people who are debatingwho's the best, who's the worst.
And so I wanted to also dedicatethe second half to that, where
people can, for the first time,because there's no other podcast
(23:07):
that I know of doing this inVietnam and long form content.
You can listen to people debateor at least make top three
selections of the best and theworst.
And that to me, I think is whypeople gravitate towards the
long form.
They get to not only learn aboutthe person, but they learn about
their opinions.
(23:27):
And we try our best to make surethat the opinions are really
strong because that drivesengagement.
And if I say AJ Styles is thegreatest high flyer of all time,
I am throwing out an opinionthat others can quickly debate
in the comment section.
So for a YouTube perspective, Ithink our numbers are doing
well, but it's also a testamentto the format that we've laid
(23:48):
out for our guys, which is that50-50, 50% personal, 50% you,
you know, barbershop talk.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah.
One of the things that I get alot is I say a lot, but often,
is people say we just want tomake short form clips.
Why is it better?
I always say to people it's notpossible really.
Why is it not possible to justcome in and create some short
form clips?
Why do you have to do the longform to get the short form?
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
If the focus is only on short form clips, it kind of
alters the focus of theinterview, which is to always be
clippable.
And so you're losing the abilityto just get into that flow state
of a conversation.
So, and I honestly believe thatsome of our best clips, even
(24:39):
though let's say it's a topthree, they are still engaging
because the person has beenwarmed into the conversation at
that point.
Like I said, it for us is thesecond half where we do that
type of content.
And the reason is is whensomeone's talking about
themselves, they can getcomfortable and come and feel at
ease.
So then when you're looking formore clippable content, they are
(25:00):
already in that comfortablestate, but you can't get there
unless they're feelingcomfortable.
So I think long form isnecessary to get the atmosphere
you need to create clipsafterwards.
But if the clips is the onlything you're focused on, it's
very inorganic.
And it will be it'll be feltthat way as a viewer.
SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
I was literally about to say the same thing.
It would be inauthentic.
Because I've seen it looks likean ad.
Have you seen this when you seepeople and you're like, I can
tell you've just startedspeaking.
Right.
Like this video has been made ofthis content.
It's kind of like, okay, action,say the question.
I'm gonna say the answer.
It's so inorganic, inauthentic,right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's two-staged.
And I think that even in shortform clips, you want the person
to still come across authentic.
I I notice it a lot when itcomes to sports content in
relation to giving like hottakes, you know, where you can
tell the the directive is shortclips that will go viral.
(26:01):
So the entire long form segment,if you ever go to YouTube and
watch some of these long formsegments where you're seeing
these clips taken from, theperson is just there, it's
almost like they're never cool.
They're always on fire.
Everything is just a moment tocreate, you know, tension.
And so, anyways, long storyshort, I do think, yes, the long
form is necessary in order toget the full scope of
(26:24):
everything.
And the clip should feedcuriosity enough to get the
person to engage with the longform.
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
Exactly.
Carrie, thank you so much forcoming on VNAM Content
Marketing.
I'm really excited to have theVPW guys back in here in Saigon
Podcast Studio for anotherepisode of Outside the Ring.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Thank you.
And it's an honor to have thepodcast done here at the Saigon
Podcast Studio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!