September 12, 2026 • 44 mins
A doctor with 27 years in family medicine doesn’t usually shut the clinic doors and start again from scratch. Dr Malea Jensen did exactly that, moving from a traditional, insurance-driven model to fully online consultations built around patient education, physiology and prevention. The thread running through our chat is simple but uncomfortable: the system often rewards speed, documentation and prescribing, while real preventative medicine demands time, curiosity and honest informed consent.
We talk about what changed her thinking, including the pressure of performance targets, the limits of seven to ten minute appointments, and the nagging sense that chronic disease care too often starts when metabolic dysfunction is already entrenched. Dr Jensen shares how her new model lets her take a detailed lifestyle history and then go line by line through lab results, helping people understand what “normal ranges” may hide, when insulin resistance is brewing, and how sleep, stress, training, nutrition and even environmental exposures can matter. She also explains why she now does more deprescribing than prescribing, and what it looks like to help patients think clearly when they feel stuck between conflicting medical advice.
One of the most striking stories is the tipping point that forced her to re-open the evidence for herself: patients refusing statins, and one man handing her seven books to read. We explore how reading, questioning and self-education can turn patients into active participants, not passive recipients, and why that same independence matters for clinicians too.
If you care about root-cause medicine, metabolic health, patient empowerment and the future of telemedicine, press play and join us. Subscribe, share with a colleague or friend, and leave a review: what’s one health question you wish your clinician would actually take time to explain?
Guest Biography
Dr. Malea Jensen, DO is an osteopathic physician and family practice doctor with nearly three decades of experience in medicine.
After many years working within both corporate and independent family practice, Dr. Jensen closed her physical practice in 2025 and transitioned to an online educational consultation model. Her current work focuses heavily on health education, detailed patient histories and helping individuals better understand laboratory results and the physiology underlying their health.
Known online as Ironladydoc, Dr. Jensen is passionate about prevention, health literacy, informed decision-making and encouraging patients to ask deeper questions about their healthcare.
She is associated with Center Stage Primary Care and shares health education through her online content under Dr. J's Prescription for Health.
Contact Details
- Website: https://ironladydoc-shop.fourthwall.com/en-gbp
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maleajensendo/
- Instagram: instagram.com/ironladydoc
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About the podcast
Voices in Health and Wellness features conversations at the intersection of medicine, lifestyle, and human potential, with clinicians, scientists, and thinkers shaping the future of care.
About Dr Andrew Greenland
UK-based medical doctor and founder of Greenland Medical, specialising in Integrative and Functional Medicine. Trained in both conventional and root-cause approaches, Andrew helps people optimise health, performance, and longevity, with a focus on cognitive resilience and healthy ageing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:00):
So welcome back to Voices in Health and
Wellness.
This is the podcast where wespeak with healthcare
practitioners, innovators, andleaders who are exploring new
ways to improve patient care andhealth outcomes.
Today I'm joined by Dr.
Malea Jensen, an osteopathicphysician and family practice
doctor with nearly three decadesof clinical experience.
After spending nearly 27 yearsin traditional family medicine,
(00:20):
Dr.
Jensen made the decision tostep away from the conventional
practice model and create a verydifferent approach, one
centered on patient education,physiology, and helping
individuals to better understandtheir own health data.
So today we'll explore what ledto that transition, what she's
learned along the way, and howshe's helping patients become
more informed participants intheir healthcare journey.
Malea, welcome to the show.
(00:42):
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Dr Malea Jensen (00:44):
Thank you, Dr.
Greenland.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:46):
You're very welcome.
So maybe we could just talk alittle bit about the journey.
The journey that you've hadinto family medicine,
osteopathic medicine, so rightfrom the beginning, because
you've been in this for 27 yearsworking in family medicine.
Dr Malea Jensen (01:00):
Yeah, 21.
Exactly.
Dr Andrew Greenland (01:02):
When you think back to the doctor you
were at the beginning of thatjourney compared with the doctor
you are today, what's changedmost in the way that you think
about health and medicine?
Dr Malea Jensen (01:12):
Yeah, if I if I'm not mistaken, I think both
of us have come from what Iwould consider a conventional
medicine background.
And we both know what that'slike to treat end stage symptoms
of chronic disease.
(01:32):
But over the years I'verealized that my mission has
changed and it's shifting focus,what I would consider upstream
instead of downstream, which Iwas doing, identifying patients'
metabolic dysfunction, insulinresistance years before it turns
(01:59):
into cardiovascular disease,strokes, diabetes, cognitive
decline, but catching it early.
I think one of the biggesthurdles that we face in
root-cause medicine is gettingpatients and doctors to
(02:22):
understand that standardconventional medicine is missing
things before it actuallyhappens.
I believe my twenty-eight-yeartimeline is the ultimate roadmap
of how a doctor successfullyreclaims a career, clinical
(02:51):
freedom, and a peace of mind.
And I have escaped, I thinkI've escaped, hospital systems,
insurance-driven clinics, whichhave forced me and other doctors
into an assembly line where wehave seven to ten minutes with a
(03:17):
patient, and that practicetimeline, it's impossible to
perform preventative medicine inthat type of system.
And uh again, I spent the first14 years of my life in my of my
(03:41):
career checking corporateboxes.
I worked for a hospital system,okay, and I realized that that
system was not designed to fixhealth, it was designed to
manage chronic disease symptoms.
(04:01):
So leaving that system behindwas my only way to what I
consider treating a patientthoroughly.
I closed my, as you describedin the in the introduction, I
closed my practice, my physicalbrick and mortar practice a year
and a half ago.
(04:22):
And I moved 100% onlineconsultations.
It was a major move.
I can't lie, it was scary, butit cut my overhead costs, and it
allows me to reach a globalaudience and target an audience
(04:46):
that I believe it's people whowant to learn more about
prevention.
So it completely changed mylifestyle, it transformed my
life, and it's I believe it'smade an impact on a lot of
people's lives.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:06):
Really interesting.
So was there was there aparticular moment or moment when
you started to question some ofthe conventional approaches
that you previously accepted asstandard practice?
I'm trying to get to thosepoints that kind of made you
take this shift.
Dr Malea Jensen (05:20):
Yeah, that shift probably occurred around,
I mean, it had always been in mymind.
Let me be perfectly honest.
I wanted to do preventativemedicine.
But as when I was in corporatemedicine, and I don't know how
much I can really say, but whenI was working for a corporate
medicine, there were standardsof care that I had to follow in
(05:44):
order to get paid by insurancecompanies.
Okay, and this this happenedfrom I would say right around
2000, moving forward, when westarted getting electronic
health records and all of thatin into my practice.
We were at first it wasvoluntary, where you would have
(06:08):
goals, meet goals for bloodpressure, meet goals for
diabetes, meet goals for lipids,meet goals, and if you met
those goals, you would getincentivized.
Well, I pretty much kind ofplayed my own game, saw my
patients, did my thing anyway.
You know, I would still teachthem about diet, teach them
(06:28):
about exercise, but iteventually got where there was a
lot of pressure starting around2016.
Well, let's just say the thepressure began around 2008,
where I did decided I did notwant to sign an insurance
(06:50):
agreement that would giveincentivized kickbacks.
Well, if one person in thegroup does not follow, none of
them get paid, and so it was asituation where you know I
basically had to move on, andthat moving on just extended the
(07:14):
whole process about four years,but didn't really change, okay.
And so I've always known thatthere was something really,
really wrong with how we weretreating our patients and not
giving them any type of informedconsent.
And to be perfectly honest, Iwasn't educated enough to give
(07:38):
them that informed consent.
I mean, let's let's just behonest, okay.
And I would say in 2016, thatwas another time in my life
where I wasn't gonna play thegames, I just couldn't play the
games and be able to go to sleepat night, knowing that how I
(08:00):
was treating patients, justprescribing them medications
over and over and over again,was not doing anything for them.
I even look, you know, I atfirst I was seeing 40-50
patients a day, right?
Then I went down to 14 or 15 inmy own practice in 2012.
So I was seeing less patientsmaking less money and still
(08:27):
being had have no ability for asovereign practice, even though
I own my own practice.
It it was it's um it was tough,but it was a blessing.
I I can I cannot say it anyother way.
And I um I I've always had aheart for preventative medicine.
(08:50):
I've I've exercised my entirelife, I've been in bodybuilding,
I've followed low-carb diets,I've done metabolically healthy
things without even knowing whatI was doing.
Okay, and I basically went backto medical school in 2016 from
my own personal education.
(09:10):
I went deep dives into thingsthat I knew had to be wrong or
just not completely right.
How about that?
And have found out so much inthe last 10 years that I feel
like I've gone to medical schooltwice.
Dr Andrew Greenland (09:32):
Amazing.
So, how much of the problemthat you were talking about is
the is the medicine itself, andhow much is it the system that
the practitioners like yourselfthat were stuck in it?
Or is it a bit of both?
Dr Malea Jensen (09:46):
You know, I think it's a it's compounded,
it's both of them.
Um, I think they're in thatit's that's interwoven with
insurance companies and pharma.
It is it it is a it's a weed,it's a weaved web, and it's I
don't think I could separate itout because in order to to do
(10:09):
one thing you have to do theother.
It's um I I mean I I don't knowhow to say it any better way.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:22):
So for practitioners who are listening
who recognize some of thefrustrations that you've had,
what do you wish was discussedmore openly within healthcare?
Dr Malea Jensen (10:31):
I think the fact, I mean, whoever is
listening now, I think the factthat we were never informed, and
we still aren't informed.
There are there we were we weregiven this path in medical
school, probably in undergrad.
Okay.
It is the way of the world.
(10:52):
We were we were led in only onedirection, and we were good
little soldiers, we were goodpawns, we followed their
directions, we did what theyasked us to do, and we did it
for their benefit, not ourbenefit, not the patient's
benefit.
That's how I feel about it,okay.
And I've always felt like I wasunder the thumb of somebody,
(11:18):
and it was time to get out fromunder the thumb.
Now, if that meant notpracticing medicine anymore,
that would have been my choice,okay?
Because it was just, you know,I believe a career, the amount
of education I went through toonly get one side of the story
was really a disgrace.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:42):
Thank you.
So, I mean, lots ofpractitioners probably become
frustrated with the system, muchlike you have, but relatively
few completely redesigned theway they work.
So, what eventually made yousay, I'm not just not gonna do
this anymore?
Is that that one thing thatkind of just tipped it?
Dr Malea Jensen (11:58):
I'm not sure that it was one thing, is it
more so it was against my my ownpersonal ethics?
And I I was not, I mean, moneyis a great incentive, but it
wasn't enough for me to sleepwell at night, okay.
(12:20):
But I understand how doctorscan get trapped, they have a
family, they have houses, theyhave college, they have all of
these payments, and they willsimply follow along and not
cause any waves and go intoretirement and do the thing, and
that that's not me.
I'm not saying I'm a completerebel, I just have ideals and
(12:45):
ethics, and something inside metold me that I was being
brainwashed.
Okay.
I mean, I don't I don't knowhow to say it any other way, but
I felt like I was beingbrainwashed, and I don't know
what woke me up, I think it wasGod.
God finally woke me up andsaid, I'm not gonna have you do
(13:10):
this anymore.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:15):
And when you closed the physical practice
in um, I think it was 2025, Ithink you said, what did leaving
the conventional model give youback?
I mean, not justprofessionally, but also
personally.
Dr Malea Jensen (13:25):
What did that pro give me an example?
I'm not sure where you'releading me to.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:30):
Um, so you made a fairly big transition
point in April 2025.
You closed the physicalpractice.
I just wondered when you'vebeen working in that kind of
model for a while, what did youget back by changing to
something else?
Um, obviously, there'sprofessional things that you
might experience, but did youget anything back personally
from that transition?
Dr Malea Jensen (13:48):
Yeah, I I I think the the biggest thing was
me having a peace of mind.
Yes, it ended all the brick andmortar.
I mean, it it actually became asecond job, you know,
maintaining brick and mortar.
I have no regrets.
It was a beautiful experience,okay?
But my lifestyle never changed.
(14:10):
I was still working, clicking,doing clickety-clock work on the
computer for the insurancecompany in order to get paid.
Hit the check the boxes, hitthe bullet points, and get paid.
So I was still doing basicallythe same amount of work because
they require more and more, andseeing less patients.
Okay, so I got my life back, Igot sovereignty back.
(14:31):
I now feel that I have apurpose where I can reach a
global population, I can see3,000 people in a day versus 15.
That is what I got back.
Is that all for me?
Absolutely not.
(14:51):
In fact, it kind of put me onthe back burner, it wasn't about
me anymore.
Although I will tell you that,you know, getting back my life
and and peace of mind, that wasfor me, knowing that I did this
(15:14):
for other people and myself.
And even if I'm wrong, even ifI am wrong, I'm getting people
to use their brain.
They are not using their brain.
They look at a doctor, put themon a pedestal, and say whatever
my doctor says, it must betrue.
(15:35):
That is the biggest lie.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:41):
Was there any part of you that wondered
whether you had made a bigmistake when you closed the
physical practice?
Dr Malea Jensen (15:47):
Oh, yeah, I was scared.
I was scared, I wasoverwhelmed.
I didn't have that, I didn'thave any IT, I didn't have any
ability to understand how tomake videos.
I had started making reelsprior to my final decision.
And honestly, Dr.
(16:08):
Greenland, I probably wouldstill be working in my physical
office had my nurse not retired.
She retired early, and she putme in a position that said,
rehire somebody that has 14years of experience who manages
the entire office.
Or try this, just try it.
(16:33):
I couldn't see myself trying tofind somebody to work and run
the practice like she did.
I put a lot of pressure on her,and she did phenomenal.
Okay, she was excellent, but Ithink that was God's indication
(16:53):
to say, listen, it's time.
Make a change.
I'll bless you with funds.
I'll do, and honestly, I didn'treally skip a beat as far as uh
income change.
And yeah, I mean, I I thinkpersonally, not having an office
(17:17):
mentally, because we identifywith being a doctor in an
office, and now people ask me,um, are you retired?
Well, no, not really.
I still work, I you know, I'mI'm still doing it, but that
isn't an emotional hit.
And when doctors listening tome right now, I think they will
understand that all of ouridentification is on a piece of
(17:40):
paper with our license and thatDR in front of us, and everybody
knows that we work in an officeand are a doctor and see
patients, and that is a nolonger.
I will never go back to that,and that was very hard for me in
a year's time, and I'm gettingused to it, but I will tell you,
it is an I don't want to say anego because I don't feel like I
(18:03):
have an ego, but it is abasically a part of our
identification as a person.
This is 30 some years of ourlife.
We are doctor, okay, and it haswith that goes along with that.
It has it has merit, it has uhit has a lot that goes with it.
(18:28):
You know what I'm saying?
The words aren't coming to me,but it has it has
responsibility, but it has fameand success and all of these
other words that we identifywith, you know.
That part was hard.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:49):
Did you immediately know what the new
model was gonna look like whenyou left, or was it a bit of a
kind of jump into the unknown?
Dr Malea Jensen (18:56):
I jumped into the unknown, but I had when my
patients were asking me, I hadall these big ideas of how I was
gonna do it, you know.
And it it was nothing likethat, and it just actually just
flowed.
I just kept a schedule andcontinued to work, and nothing
really has changed really fromthat day one, except for I'm
(19:20):
seeing more clients before it'spaid off in a year's time.
You're eventually, you know, atthe start, you're doing
everything for free, and you'rejust giving out as much
information as you possibly can.
And at the same time, I waslearning so much, so it was like
fun to deliver all of thisinformation.
Now I'm delivering informationstill, but seeing people
(19:42):
one-on-one and giving themmotivation to make changes to
understand their labs.
That is what I love.
I love helping peopleunderstand how to read their
labs because they've beendeceived for years.
Dr Andrew Greenland (20:04):
So your work looks very different now
compared to before.
Talk us a little bit about themodel.
What does it look like from apatient perspective who wants to
come and see you as compared towhat you were doing before in a
brick and mortar?
Dr Malea Jensen (20:15):
Sure.
Yeah, in a brick and mortar,when a patient would come see
me, they would call, sign up foran appointment, come for either
acute care or their chronicdiseases every four months.
I would see them, we would getlabs, and then I would call them
with those lab results as Iwrote on their either my nurse
or myself would call them back,and they weren't very detailed
notes at all.
(20:35):
Like, hey, your uh liverfunction enzymes are high, you
know, we need to back up you youmight have some fatty liver, we
probably should look into it,things like that.
Very, very superficial, okay.
And now I go line by line onlabs, and I spend time learning
(20:57):
about that patient's history.
Not that I didn't know mypatient's history before, but I
really know my patient's historynow, their lifestyle, their
sleep, their family life, theirjob, their stress, whether they
get outside, what kind of lightsare they under, all of those
things are now in my history ofpresent illness.
(21:17):
How am I getting to thisperson?
Then I can put all of thattogether when I look at their
labs and I'll say, Oh, you liveon a farm and you have well
water and you have high heavymetals.
I would have never asked if Ihad a farmer, you know, I knew I
had farmers, but I wouldn't gointo like what chemicals are you
(21:38):
using on your crops?
Um, how's the soil?
Have you chased the soil?
Are you using well?
No, there wasn't time.
And so now that I go line byline and show these people what
is going on with their labs andhow we can prevent this, we can
turn this around.
But see, in their head, theyhave doomsday, their doctor.
(21:59):
Has doomed them withcardiovascular disease and
strokes and diabetes and andwell, here's your medicine,
which is just treating asymptom, it's not root cause.
You could you could stop themedicine, you don't even have to
be on the medicines.
I do more deprescribing nowthan prescribing ever.
Okay.
(22:20):
And so that is a huge change.
Is saying, why are you on thatmedicine?
I don't know.
My doctor wanted me on it, butyou don't know the answer.
Well, let's tell you why youwere on it.
Here's what I likely suspect.
It's a lack of education in theentire population.
They've been given, just likeme, just like you, the exact
(22:43):
same information, no matter ifwe're in the United States, the
UK, wherever.
It is pharma-driven, it'ssymptom-driven.
We patted ourselves on theback, didn't we, when we made a
diagnosis?
We said, good job, good job.
And then we knew what medicine.
We prided ourselves to knowwhat medicine would go with that
(23:06):
diagnosis.
It was a pride thing.
I was so happy.
Oh my gosh, that was so cool.
I made a diagnosis and I knewexactly what to prescribe them.
Big change.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:22):
So I think you spend um up to three hours
on an individual case.
I think you said before,correct me if I'm wrong.
So how does because you and youalso mentioned that you're able
to reach more patients?
So how do you um ratify youknow spending huge chunks of
time, far more time than youever did before, with extending
your reach?
How does it all kind of workout?
Dr Malea Jensen (23:41):
The reach comes from educating people online.
My live streams on weekends, myreels during the week, that is
where my reach comes in.
And you know, my like I said,my mission now is informed
consent.
My mission now is to educateand get people to use their
(24:05):
brains, think logically.
Does do rewards come with that?
Sometimes people will give me asuper sticker or super chat or
whatever, and you get fivebucks, right?
The part that feels gratifyingis I helped answer a question
that somebody had, and if thatperson had that question, 2,000
(24:28):
people might have had that exactsame question.
The people that come to me, Iwould say are not really in the
middle anymore.
They are the super reallyeducated and they want
reassurance that they're doingeverything right.
Dr.
Jensen just needs you to go overthese and let's just talk.
(24:51):
Am I doing this right?
And I was like, Yeah, you'redoing you're you're doing this,
or hey, I think you missed this.
And then the on the otherspectrum is the person who is so
scared, so paralyzed to make adecision.
They know that taking a certainmedication might be
detrimental, not right now, butdown the down the long road.
(25:13):
Okay, so they're against takingthat, but don't know if they're
making the right decision, sothey are paralyzed, and then
they have cognitive dissonance.
Well, this doctor said this,and you're saying this, and how
do I know who's right?
Because you're relying on oneperson or two people now to give
(25:33):
you all of the information, andyou cannot do that.
You need to self-educateyourself, and I encourage that.
But reaching that one personwho signs up with me and wants a
consultation is gettingeverything of me.
It's getting three hours, oneone to two hours online talking
to you, another one to two hoursof me doing research behind the
(25:56):
scenes at emailing back andforth and saying, Did you say
that you exercised three or fourdays a week?
How many hours do you sleep?
Are you an endurance athlete orare you lifting weights?
Um, you know, all of thosequestions back and forth, back
and forth.
Because I need to have all ofthe information in order to make
(26:17):
a great analysis, and theyappreciate that.
That's what I can doone-on-one.
What I can do for a globalpopulation is feed them full of
information that they can goback and say, I don't know about
that, I better go check it out,using their brain.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:41):
And through through the education that you
do, um, this is all aboutempowering the patients.
You know, you're educating themto be asking questions to give
them the information.
What does an empowered patientlook like to you?
Dr Malea Jensen (26:53):
Oh my gosh, an empowered patient looks like
somebody who's not gonna getbamboozled by their physician.
There's a lot of buffoonery outthere, and patients I you know,
I've had patients that say, Ijust wish you could come to the
doctor's off or doctor'sappointment with me.
And I said, Yeah, it would beinteresting to but honestly,
(27:17):
having me empowered them alsoempowers me.
I'm got I I always tell myclients or online, I tell them
we're on a journey together.
I'm learning it.
You're I'm working and learningthis, you're working, you're
paying the bills, and I'mpresenting you information,
(27:37):
stuff you have never heard.
Why haven't you heard it?
Because we have beenindoctrinated, bamboozled down
one-way path.
There's up they will tell usthere's absolutely no other
ideas, no other reasoningsbehind certain diseases, except
(27:57):
for whatever pharma pays for.
It's incredible to wake up.
And yeah, as as I'm empoweringthem, I'm empowering myself.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:14):
What surprises patients the most when
they start understanding theirown physiology?
What's that kind of our hardmoments that patients have with
you?
Dr Malea Jensen (28:22):
It's fear, it's anger.
They go through a lot ofemotions.
When I start telling themthings, they get mad at first.
They're mad at their doctor,they're mad at themselves for
not knowing that.
They go through a lot of anger.
Then they go through fear.
Am I making the right decision?
(28:43):
How come no one else see?
I'm in a minority, you're in aminority, okay?
We're we're we're in aminority, and they're seeing a
consensus of doctors followingone path, and then there's these
offsprouts like ourselves, andyou're saying, Well, how do I
trust you?
Don't trust me, go look it up.
(29:05):
Don't trust your doctor either.
Go look it up.
Learn how to question yourdoctor.
You will find out their trueselves when they dismiss you and
say something to this effect,you know, we're not going to see
eye to eye on things, so itmight be best for you to find a
different doctor.
(29:26):
They dismiss the patient.
If a patient does not alignwith them and do what they say,
they're going to find a reasonnot to see that patient.
And it's very putting thepatient down, it really is.
It's it's it's undermining thepatient because of their ego.
Dr Andrew Greenland (29:52):
If you could give every patient one
principle for becoming a moreinformed patient, or more, yeah,
more informed participant intheir own healthcare, what would
that be?
Dr Malea Jensen (30:02):
Reading.
Reading.
Um that's how I went back tomedical school is reading.
I read, I mean, if I if I couldshow you my bookcase of the
books I started reading, and Iwill tell you how this all
started.
When I said it was in 2016, Ihad a patient come to me.
You you asked me about atipping point.
(30:23):
I'm gonna give you a tippingpoint.
A tipping point was I had abouttwo or three patients who
absolutely refused to take astatin.
And I said, Why?
There's this study and thisstudy, and I went through and I
said, We we have all thisinformation.
Why why are you why don't youbelieve it?
And there was one who I meanthere was three, but there was
(30:45):
one, an older gentleman, that hesaid, I care about you, Dr.
Johnson.
We are like friends, and Ithink you're wrong.
And I just need you to lookinto this.
He brought me seven books toread, not one, seven of them.
(31:07):
He didn't force anything uponme.
I would just like you to justlook into it.
Did I read all seven books?
Yes.
When I got done, I wasliterally wanting to quit
medicine.
I wanted to quit because I feltlike I had hurt so many
patients the past 20 years by myinability to look outside of
(31:34):
the box.
I didn't take the time to read.
I did my continuing medicaleducation, but that CME was the
exact same medical schooldirectives.
I never left the box untilafter the seven books.
And then I wanted to cry.
I wanted, I was in disbelief.
(31:56):
I said, How did I not knowthis?
How did I not know this?
Was I in it under a rock?
It was tough.
I thought I was gonna quit.
I I really did.
I felt like I had hurt peopleinstead of helped people.
Dr Andrew Greenland (32:19):
You've not only changed the way you
practice medicine, you've had tobuild a completely different
business model around it.
What have been the biggestchallenges and bottlenecks in
making this all work for you?
Dr Malea Jensen (32:30):
You know, Doc, the the biggest thing was
accepting the fact that myidentity isn't just DR doctor.
I'm a person just likeeverybody else.
I put my pants on likeeverybody else.
I go to the bathroom likeeverybody else.
(32:51):
And I had to I had to come togrips with sharing two two
options.
Quitting, I guess, would beanother option, sharing truth,
what I believed was truth, orcontinuing and deceiving not
(33:13):
only the people, but deceivingmyself.
And I couldn't do it anymore.
I could not do that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:30):
I'm just thinking about um from a
business point of view, you'vecompletely changed models.
I just wondered, particularlywhen you're spending up to three
hours with the one-on-onepatients, how do you kind of
make it work?
Because it's it is a verydifferent model, and it's
something you feel much morecomfortable in.
I'm just curious to know how itworks out.
Dr Malea Jensen (33:47):
I I spend my mornings really working on a
patient, and I spend myafternoons educating myself.
I used to not be as rigid whenI first started, and now I'm I'm
very rigid.
I I go work out in the morningand just staying rigid, staying
with a consistent schedule, andthen spending that time.
(34:10):
Some of them are are easy,okay?
Some of them arestraightforward, and I can get
through them much easier, andothers, I said go, something is
just not right here.
And I deep dive, and I couldspend you know three hours, but
at the time that I'm working onthat patient, I'm also educating
(34:31):
myself.
Does that make sense?
Because I'm reading and I'mdigging even more questions.
Yes, it relates to the patient,but it's also helping me for
future patients.
So could it eventually looklike it's not three hours on a
patient?
Possibly, possibly.
But I know I know me, and theeducation just doesn't stop.
(34:52):
And but I'm very now I'm veryrigid about my schedule, and
that has helped, you know.
I'm still working and learning,working and learning, helping
people learning, helping peoplelearning.
I don't know if I would call ita business model.
(35:13):
It's almost like it's a hobbymodel, it's my hobby model.
I I don't have a businessmodel.
If you ask me, give me yourbusiness model, I'd say, yeah, I
go from day to day.
I don't even, and I got a I gota paper calendar.
I you you know, yours are allfancy.
You must have given me 10reminders about this interview
(35:35):
coming up.
And I have nothing like that.
I'll email them and say, youknow, um, hey, we got this thing
going on.
You still on for it?
Yep, we're good, we're good.
Okay, I'll send you a textright before we we start.
I mean, it's it's reallyancient the way I do things.
Dr Andrew Greenland (35:55):
And in your hobby model, as you called it,
what are the things that costyou the most time and energy and
money?
Dr Malea Jensen (36:03):
Um money-wise, I I mean, not a lot.
I you know, be I I did purchasea new computer, and I have to
thank my listeners for helpingme do that.
That was amazing.
Okay, so I you know, I have acomputer that I've been using
for um this this computer we'reon right now is 14 years old,
(36:28):
and people it convinced me Ineed a new computer, I need to
speed things up, and so withtheir help, meaning their
consultations, their superchats, their super whatever's
super stickers, it has helpedpaper a new computer.
My time is not much changed.
(36:52):
My time is centered aroundeducating myself so I can
educate people.
I do not want to be, I hatebeing wrong, and I hate giving
bad advice.
I just I work hard not to givebad advice.
And when I tell a patient Idon't know, I really don't know.
(37:14):
There's no answer sometimes.
What you've been told that wascomplete rock solid, it's not
that might not be.
And I'm gonna tell them why.
So just think about this, justthink like use your brain, just
think about this situation.
Does that sound legit to you?
No, but how do you know?
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:35):
I don't know, but it doesn't sound
right, and so computer upgraded.
If I gave you a magic wand andyou could fix anything else in
the business tomorrow, whatwould that be, if anything?
Dr Malea Jensen (37:52):
If I could fix the one thing, it would still
be, I believe, my peace of mind.
Am I doing the right thing?
I I question that, and thenI'll have a day where I have no
questions, but if I could in theand it uh again, uh the the
(38:15):
magic wand, I I'm very blessed.
I I really am.
I have no regrets.
Everything's been a learningexperience.
Even when I was bamboozled withbuffoonery, I have no regrets.
And so if you gave me a magicwand, you know what?
It'd be it'd be okay, but I I'mjust in a in a process on a
(38:38):
journey to learn, and the magicwand would say, Calm down,
you're okay, you can do this.
That would be it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (38:49):
Where does that validation come from at the
moment?
Obviously, the magic wand is atheoretical construct, but where
do you get the validation from?
Dr Malea Jensen (38:57):
Definitely the clients.
Um, when they when they give aa compliment, or it's not even a
compliment, it's a thank you.
I've been thanked so many timesthat I hadn't gotten in the
previous 27 years from my brickand mortar clients patients.
(39:21):
They felt obligated to come in.
In order to get theirprescription, I needed to check
their their labs.
I was not gonna just do ayear's.
I I can't, because if I misssomething, that's on me, not on
you.
They did not want to come insometimes, they didn't want to
(39:44):
get my wrath, right?
They didn't want to hear me sayone more time or ask one more
time, what does your exerciselook like?
What does your sleep look like?
What are you eating?
They didn't want it.
These people want it.
It is totally different.
Clientele, they want education,they they desire it.
(40:08):
They're paying out of pocket,they're not using insurance.
These people want to learn,they want to heal, they do not
want to take medications.
It's a different clientele.
I love it, they thank me.
It feels good.
That is validation.
That that's my validation isthe client saying, You're okay,
(40:31):
you got this.
Thank you so much.
You're you're putting out therewhat no one else will do.
And when they say no one else,they know that they're following
other people with our withlike-minded ideas, okay?
So I'm not like the only one,but it's we all have the same.
I bet if you were asked all ofthe like-minded docs on there
(40:54):
who left their pride, they wouldall have this exact same
scenario if they were honest.
Dr Andrew Greenland (41:03):
So, what where does the where's the
future for you?
What are you looking to do ummaybe in the next year or so?
Um, I guess you're not gonna beretiring anytime soon.
So, what's the kind of futurehold for you?
Dr Malea Jensen (41:14):
I think just continuing what I'm doing and
continuing to learn.
I'm not, you know, I'm not oneof those um docs that's gonna
start opening up a business,hire a whole bunch of online
coaches and that people hire Dr.
Jensen for Dr.
Jensen.
They don't hire Dr.
Jensen to talk to Dr.
Jensen's health coach and medeveloping a health coach, and I
(41:35):
teach them all, and then theygo out and be disciples and do
all that.
I have no interest.
The the reason people listen tome or want to talk to me or
want to learn from me is theywant me, not my assistant.
And as long as I can do that,this platform will look exactly
the same.
I'll get better because I willI will be quicker.
(41:59):
I imagine myself, this has onlybeen a couple years, new three,
four years education.
It will start clicking evenmore.
We're gonna we're I'm gonna getthis.
That's what my future lookslike is this clicking.
The dots are connecting rightnow.
I got all these loose dots, andI'm helping people connect
(42:20):
dots, but eventually the dotsare gonna just like fall right
into place.
Dr Andrew Greenland (42:28):
And in closing, if there's one idea
you'd like practitioners andlistening to this conversation
to take away and thinkdifferently about tomorrow, what
would that be?
Dr Malea Jensen (42:39):
Independence.
They need to get back to usingtheir own brain, they really do.
I did, I needed to get back tousing my brain.
We have a ton of education, andwe are allowing, I believe we
are allowing an elite class runus over and use us for their
(43:04):
agendas, and I I won't have itanymore.
And it took me a long time tosee where I needed to be me
again, and I wasn't, I was them,and I identified with them, and
I'm I I had to give up, youhave to give up a lot, and
that's what it's gonna take.
It's gonna have you giving upyour lifestyle and giving up
(43:26):
your it the lifestyle will lookdifferent, it it's it surely
will, but you the gratificationis helping people.
Well, if they say they'rehelping people now, I I just
can't get on board with that.
You're you're helping people betrapped in a system, and we can
(43:51):
help that person and ourselvesget out of a trap.
Dr Andrew Greenland (44:00):
Manus, thank you so much for sharing
your story.
It's been very, reallyinspiring and such an honest
reflection.
And what strikes me most is thecourage it takes to step away
from a model you've spent yearsand decades building and
creating something entirelydifferent.
And whether listeners agreewith every perspective or not, I
think there's tremendous valuein hearing how experienced
practitioners think throughthese challenges like you've
(44:20):
done and how they're exploringnew ways to serve patients.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
I really appreciate the thehonesty and the insights that
you brought to the conversation.
Thank you.
Dr Malea Jensen (44:29):
Yeah, it's been an honor to be with you, and I
want to thank you for invitingme on.
So welcome back to Voices in Health and
Wellness.
This is the podcast where wespeak with healthcare
practitioners, innovators, andleaders who are exploring new
ways to improve patient care andhealth outcomes.
Today I'm joined by Dr.
Malea Jensen, an osteopathicphysician and family practice
doctor with nearly three decadesof clinical experience.
After spending nearly 27 yearsin traditional family medicine,
(00:20):
Dr.
Jensen made the decision tostep away from the conventional
practice model and create a verydifferent approach, one
centered on patient education,physiology, and helping
individuals to better understandtheir own health data.
So today we'll explore what ledto that transition, what she's
learned along the way, and howshe's helping patients become
more informed participants intheir healthcare journey.
Malea, welcome to the show.
(00:42):
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Dr Malea Jensen (00:44):
Thank you, Dr.
Greenland.
Thank you for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:46):
You're very welcome.
So maybe we could just talk alittle bit about the journey.
The journey that you've hadinto family medicine,
osteopathic medicine, so rightfrom the beginning, because
you've been in this for 27 yearsworking in family medicine.
Dr Malea Jensen (01:00):
Yeah, 21.
Exactly.
Dr Andrew Greenland (01:02):
When you think back to the doctor you
were at the beginning of thatjourney compared with the doctor
you are today, what's changedmost in the way that you think
about health and medicine?
Dr Malea Jensen (01:12):
Yeah, if I if I'm not mistaken, I think both
of us have come from what Iwould consider a conventional
medicine background.
And we both know what that'slike to treat end stage symptoms
of chronic disease.
(01:32):
But over the years I'verealized that my mission has
changed and it's shifting focus,what I would consider upstream
instead of downstream, which Iwas doing, identifying patients'
metabolic dysfunction, insulinresistance years before it turns
(01:59):
into cardiovascular disease,strokes, diabetes, cognitive
decline, but catching it early.
I think one of the biggesthurdles that we face in
root-cause medicine is gettingpatients and doctors to
(02:22):
understand that standardconventional medicine is missing
things before it actuallyhappens.
I believe my twenty-eight-yeartimeline is the ultimate roadmap
of how a doctor successfullyreclaims a career, clinical
(02:51):
freedom, and a peace of mind.
And I have escaped, I thinkI've escaped, hospital systems,
insurance-driven clinics, whichhave forced me and other doctors
into an assembly line where wehave seven to ten minutes with a
(03:17):
patient, and that practicetimeline, it's impossible to
perform preventative medicine inthat type of system.
And uh again, I spent the first14 years of my life in my of my
(03:41):
career checking corporateboxes.
I worked for a hospital system,okay, and I realized that that
system was not designed to fixhealth, it was designed to
manage chronic disease symptoms.
(04:01):
So leaving that system behindwas my only way to what I
consider treating a patientthoroughly.
I closed my, as you describedin the in the introduction, I
closed my practice, my physicalbrick and mortar practice a year
and a half ago.
(04:22):
And I moved 100% onlineconsultations.
It was a major move.
I can't lie, it was scary, butit cut my overhead costs, and it
allows me to reach a globalaudience and target an audience
(04:46):
that I believe it's people whowant to learn more about
prevention.
So it completely changed mylifestyle, it transformed my
life, and it's I believe it'smade an impact on a lot of
people's lives.
Dr Andrew Greenland (05:06):
Really interesting.
So was there was there aparticular moment or moment when
you started to question some ofthe conventional approaches
that you previously accepted asstandard practice?
I'm trying to get to thosepoints that kind of made you
take this shift.
Dr Malea Jensen (05:20):
Yeah, that shift probably occurred around,
I mean, it had always been in mymind.
Let me be perfectly honest.
I wanted to do preventativemedicine.
But as when I was in corporatemedicine, and I don't know how
much I can really say, but whenI was working for a corporate
medicine, there were standardsof care that I had to follow in
(05:44):
order to get paid by insurancecompanies.
Okay, and this this happenedfrom I would say right around
2000, moving forward, when westarted getting electronic
health records and all of thatin into my practice.
We were at first it wasvoluntary, where you would have
(06:08):
goals, meet goals for bloodpressure, meet goals for
diabetes, meet goals for lipids,meet goals, and if you met
those goals, you would getincentivized.
Well, I pretty much kind ofplayed my own game, saw my
patients, did my thing anyway.
You know, I would still teachthem about diet, teach them
(06:28):
about exercise, but iteventually got where there was a
lot of pressure starting around2016.
Well, let's just say the thepressure began around 2008,
where I did decided I did notwant to sign an insurance
(06:50):
agreement that would giveincentivized kickbacks.
Well, if one person in thegroup does not follow, none of
them get paid, and so it was asituation where you know I
basically had to move on, andthat moving on just extended the
(07:14):
whole process about four years,but didn't really change, okay.
And so I've always known thatthere was something really,
really wrong with how we weretreating our patients and not
giving them any type of informedconsent.
And to be perfectly honest, Iwasn't educated enough to give
(07:38):
them that informed consent.
I mean, let's let's just behonest, okay.
And I would say in 2016, thatwas another time in my life
where I wasn't gonna play thegames, I just couldn't play the
games and be able to go to sleepat night, knowing that how I
(08:00):
was treating patients, justprescribing them medications
over and over and over again,was not doing anything for them.
I even look, you know, I atfirst I was seeing 40-50
patients a day, right?
Then I went down to 14 or 15 inmy own practice in 2012.
So I was seeing less patientsmaking less money and still
(08:27):
being had have no ability for asovereign practice, even though
I own my own practice.
It it was it's um it was tough,but it was a blessing.
I I can I cannot say it anyother way.
And I um I I've always had aheart for preventative medicine.
(08:50):
I've I've exercised my entirelife, I've been in bodybuilding,
I've followed low-carb diets,I've done metabolically healthy
things without even knowing whatI was doing.
Okay, and I basically went backto medical school in 2016 from
my own personal education.
(09:10):
I went deep dives into thingsthat I knew had to be wrong or
just not completely right.
How about that?
And have found out so much inthe last 10 years that I feel
like I've gone to medical schooltwice.
Dr Andrew Greenland (09:32):
Amazing.
So, how much of the problemthat you were talking about is
the is the medicine itself, andhow much is it the system that
the practitioners like yourselfthat were stuck in it?
Or is it a bit of both?
Dr Malea Jensen (09:46):
You know, I think it's a it's compounded,
it's both of them.
Um, I think they're in thatit's that's interwoven with
insurance companies and pharma.
It is it it is a it's a weed,it's a weaved web, and it's I
don't think I could separate itout because in order to to do
(10:09):
one thing you have to do theother.
It's um I I mean I I don't knowhow to say it any better way.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:22):
So for practitioners who are listening
who recognize some of thefrustrations that you've had,
what do you wish was discussedmore openly within healthcare?
Dr Malea Jensen (10:31):
I think the fact, I mean, whoever is
listening now, I think the factthat we were never informed, and
we still aren't informed.
There are there we were we weregiven this path in medical
school, probably in undergrad.
Okay.
It is the way of the world.
(10:52):
We were we were led in only onedirection, and we were good
little soldiers, we were goodpawns, we followed their
directions, we did what theyasked us to do, and we did it
for their benefit, not ourbenefit, not the patient's
benefit.
That's how I feel about it,okay.
And I've always felt like I wasunder the thumb of somebody,
(11:18):
and it was time to get out fromunder the thumb.
Now, if that meant notpracticing medicine anymore,
that would have been my choice,okay?
Because it was just, you know,I believe a career, the amount
of education I went through toonly get one side of the story
was really a disgrace.
Dr Andrew Greenland (11:42):
Thank you.
So, I mean, lots ofpractitioners probably become
frustrated with the system, muchlike you have, but relatively
few completely redesigned theway they work.
So, what eventually made yousay, I'm not just not gonna do
this anymore?
Is that that one thing thatkind of just tipped it?
Dr Malea Jensen (11:58):
I'm not sure that it was one thing, is it
more so it was against my my ownpersonal ethics?
And I I was not, I mean, moneyis a great incentive, but it
wasn't enough for me to sleepwell at night, okay.
(12:20):
But I understand how doctorscan get trapped, they have a
family, they have houses, theyhave college, they have all of
these payments, and they willsimply follow along and not
cause any waves and go intoretirement and do the thing, and
that that's not me.
I'm not saying I'm a completerebel, I just have ideals and
(12:45):
ethics, and something inside metold me that I was being
brainwashed.
Okay.
I mean, I don't I don't knowhow to say it any other way, but
I felt like I was beingbrainwashed, and I don't know
what woke me up, I think it wasGod.
God finally woke me up andsaid, I'm not gonna have you do
(13:10):
this anymore.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:15):
And when you closed the physical practice
in um, I think it was 2025, Ithink you said, what did leaving
the conventional model give youback?
I mean, not justprofessionally, but also
personally.
Dr Malea Jensen (13:25):
What did that pro give me an example?
I'm not sure where you'releading me to.
Dr Andrew Greenland (13:30):
Um, so you made a fairly big transition
point in April 2025.
You closed the physicalpractice.
I just wondered when you'vebeen working in that kind of
model for a while, what did youget back by changing to
something else?
Um, obviously, there'sprofessional things that you
might experience, but did youget anything back personally
from that transition?
Dr Malea Jensen (13:48):
Yeah, I I I think the the biggest thing was
me having a peace of mind.
Yes, it ended all the brick andmortar.
I mean, it it actually became asecond job, you know,
maintaining brick and mortar.
I have no regrets.
It was a beautiful experience,okay?
But my lifestyle never changed.
(14:10):
I was still working, clicking,doing clickety-clock work on the
computer for the insurancecompany in order to get paid.
Hit the check the boxes, hitthe bullet points, and get paid.
So I was still doing basicallythe same amount of work because
they require more and more, andseeing less patients.
Okay, so I got my life back, Igot sovereignty back.
(14:31):
I now feel that I have apurpose where I can reach a
global population, I can see3,000 people in a day versus 15.
That is what I got back.
Is that all for me?
Absolutely not.
(14:51):
In fact, it kind of put me onthe back burner, it wasn't about
me anymore.
Although I will tell you that,you know, getting back my life
and and peace of mind, that wasfor me, knowing that I did this
(15:14):
for other people and myself.
And even if I'm wrong, even ifI am wrong, I'm getting people
to use their brain.
They are not using their brain.
They look at a doctor, put themon a pedestal, and say whatever
my doctor says, it must betrue.
(15:35):
That is the biggest lie.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:41):
Was there any part of you that wondered
whether you had made a bigmistake when you closed the
physical practice?
Dr Malea Jensen (15:47):
Oh, yeah, I was scared.
I was scared, I wasoverwhelmed.
I didn't have that, I didn'thave any IT, I didn't have any
ability to understand how tomake videos.
I had started making reelsprior to my final decision.
And honestly, Dr.
(16:08):
Greenland, I probably wouldstill be working in my physical
office had my nurse not retired.
She retired early, and she putme in a position that said,
rehire somebody that has 14years of experience who manages
the entire office.
Or try this, just try it.
(16:33):
I couldn't see myself trying tofind somebody to work and run
the practice like she did.
I put a lot of pressure on her,and she did phenomenal.
Okay, she was excellent, but Ithink that was God's indication
(16:53):
to say, listen, it's time.
Make a change.
I'll bless you with funds.
I'll do, and honestly, I didn'treally skip a beat as far as uh
income change.
And yeah, I mean, I I thinkpersonally, not having an office
(17:17):
mentally, because we identifywith being a doctor in an
office, and now people ask me,um, are you retired?
Well, no, not really.
I still work, I you know, I'mI'm still doing it, but that
isn't an emotional hit.
And when doctors listening tome right now, I think they will
understand that all of ouridentification is on a piece of
(17:40):
paper with our license and thatDR in front of us, and everybody
knows that we work in an officeand are a doctor and see
patients, and that is a nolonger.
I will never go back to that,and that was very hard for me in
a year's time, and I'm gettingused to it, but I will tell you,
it is an I don't want to say anego because I don't feel like I
(18:03):
have an ego, but it is abasically a part of our
identification as a person.
This is 30 some years of ourlife.
We are doctor, okay, and it haswith that goes along with that.
It has it has merit, it has uhit has a lot that goes with it.
(18:28):
You know what I'm saying?
The words aren't coming to me,but it has it has
responsibility, but it has fameand success and all of these
other words that we identifywith, you know.
That part was hard.
Dr Andrew Greenland (18:49):
Did you immediately know what the new
model was gonna look like whenyou left, or was it a bit of a
kind of jump into the unknown?
Dr Malea Jensen (18:56):
I jumped into the unknown, but I had when my
patients were asking me, I hadall these big ideas of how I was
gonna do it, you know.
And it it was nothing likethat, and it just actually just
flowed.
I just kept a schedule andcontinued to work, and nothing
really has changed really fromthat day one, except for I'm
(19:20):
seeing more clients before it'spaid off in a year's time.
You're eventually, you know, atthe start, you're doing
everything for free, and you'rejust giving out as much
information as you possibly can.
And at the same time, I waslearning so much, so it was like
fun to deliver all of thisinformation.
Now I'm delivering informationstill, but seeing people
(19:42):
one-on-one and giving themmotivation to make changes to
understand their labs.
That is what I love.
I love helping peopleunderstand how to read their
labs because they've beendeceived for years.
Dr Andrew Greenland (20:04):
So your work looks very different now
compared to before.
Talk us a little bit about themodel.
What does it look like from apatient perspective who wants to
come and see you as compared towhat you were doing before in a
brick and mortar?
Dr Malea Jensen (20:15):
Sure.
Yeah, in a brick and mortar,when a patient would come see
me, they would call, sign up foran appointment, come for either
acute care or their chronicdiseases every four months.
I would see them, we would getlabs, and then I would call them
with those lab results as Iwrote on their either my nurse
or myself would call them back,and they weren't very detailed
notes at all.
(20:35):
Like, hey, your uh liverfunction enzymes are high, you
know, we need to back up you youmight have some fatty liver, we
probably should look into it,things like that.
Very, very superficial, okay.
And now I go line by line onlabs, and I spend time learning
(20:57):
about that patient's history.
Not that I didn't know mypatient's history before, but I
really know my patient's historynow, their lifestyle, their
sleep, their family life, theirjob, their stress, whether they
get outside, what kind of lightsare they under, all of those
things are now in my history ofpresent illness.
(21:17):
How am I getting to thisperson?
Then I can put all of thattogether when I look at their
labs and I'll say, Oh, you liveon a farm and you have well
water and you have high heavymetals.
I would have never asked if Ihad a farmer, you know, I knew I
had farmers, but I wouldn't gointo like what chemicals are you
(21:38):
using on your crops?
Um, how's the soil?
Have you chased the soil?
Are you using well?
No, there wasn't time.
And so now that I go line byline and show these people what
is going on with their labs andhow we can prevent this, we can
turn this around.
But see, in their head, theyhave doomsday, their doctor.
(21:59):
Has doomed them withcardiovascular disease and
strokes and diabetes and andwell, here's your medicine,
which is just treating asymptom, it's not root cause.
You could you could stop themedicine, you don't even have to
be on the medicines.
I do more deprescribing nowthan prescribing ever.
Okay.
(22:20):
And so that is a huge change.
Is saying, why are you on thatmedicine?
I don't know.
My doctor wanted me on it, butyou don't know the answer.
Well, let's tell you why youwere on it.
Here's what I likely suspect.
It's a lack of education in theentire population.
They've been given, just likeme, just like you, the exact
(22:43):
same information, no matter ifwe're in the United States, the
UK, wherever.
It is pharma-driven, it'ssymptom-driven.
We patted ourselves on theback, didn't we, when we made a
diagnosis?
We said, good job, good job.
And then we knew what medicine.
We prided ourselves to knowwhat medicine would go with that
(23:06):
diagnosis.
It was a pride thing.
I was so happy.
Oh my gosh, that was so cool.
I made a diagnosis and I knewexactly what to prescribe them.
Big change.
Dr Andrew Greenland (23:22):
So I think you spend um up to three hours
on an individual case.
I think you said before,correct me if I'm wrong.
So how does because you and youalso mentioned that you're able
to reach more patients?
So how do you um ratify youknow spending huge chunks of
time, far more time than youever did before, with extending
your reach?
How does it all kind of workout?
Dr Malea Jensen (23:41):
The reach comes from educating people online.
My live streams on weekends, myreels during the week, that is
where my reach comes in.
And you know, my like I said,my mission now is informed
consent.
My mission now is to educateand get people to use their
(24:05):
brains, think logically.
Does do rewards come with that?
Sometimes people will give me asuper sticker or super chat or
whatever, and you get fivebucks, right?
The part that feels gratifyingis I helped answer a question
that somebody had, and if thatperson had that question, 2,000
(24:28):
people might have had that exactsame question.
The people that come to me, Iwould say are not really in the
middle anymore.
They are the super reallyeducated and they want
reassurance that they're doingeverything right.
Dr.
Jensen just needs you to go overthese and let's just talk.
(24:51):
Am I doing this right?
And I was like, Yeah, you'redoing you're you're doing this,
or hey, I think you missed this.
And then the on the otherspectrum is the person who is so
scared, so paralyzed to make adecision.
They know that taking a certainmedication might be
detrimental, not right now, butdown the down the long road.
(25:13):
Okay, so they're against takingthat, but don't know if they're
making the right decision, sothey are paralyzed, and then
they have cognitive dissonance.
Well, this doctor said this,and you're saying this, and how
do I know who's right?
Because you're relying on oneperson or two people now to give
(25:33):
you all of the information, andyou cannot do that.
You need to self-educateyourself, and I encourage that.
But reaching that one personwho signs up with me and wants a
consultation is gettingeverything of me.
It's getting three hours, oneone to two hours online talking
to you, another one to two hoursof me doing research behind the
(25:56):
scenes at emailing back andforth and saying, Did you say
that you exercised three or fourdays a week?
How many hours do you sleep?
Are you an endurance athlete orare you lifting weights?
Um, you know, all of thosequestions back and forth, back
and forth.
Because I need to have all ofthe information in order to make
(26:17):
a great analysis, and theyappreciate that.
That's what I can doone-on-one.
What I can do for a globalpopulation is feed them full of
information that they can goback and say, I don't know about
that, I better go check it out,using their brain.
Dr Andrew Greenland (26:41):
And through through the education that you
do, um, this is all aboutempowering the patients.
You know, you're educating themto be asking questions to give
them the information.
What does an empowered patientlook like to you?
Dr Malea Jensen (26:53):
Oh my gosh, an empowered patient looks like
somebody who's not gonna getbamboozled by their physician.
There's a lot of buffoonery outthere, and patients I you know,
I've had patients that say, Ijust wish you could come to the
doctor's off or doctor'sappointment with me.
And I said, Yeah, it would beinteresting to but honestly,
(27:17):
having me empowered them alsoempowers me.
I'm got I I always tell myclients or online, I tell them
we're on a journey together.
I'm learning it.
You're I'm working and learningthis, you're working, you're
paying the bills, and I'mpresenting you information,
(27:37):
stuff you have never heard.
Why haven't you heard it?
Because we have beenindoctrinated, bamboozled down
one-way path.
There's up they will tell usthere's absolutely no other
ideas, no other reasoningsbehind certain diseases, except
(27:57):
for whatever pharma pays for.
It's incredible to wake up.
And yeah, as as I'm empoweringthem, I'm empowering myself.
Dr Andrew Greenland (28:14):
What surprises patients the most when
they start understanding theirown physiology?
What's that kind of our hardmoments that patients have with
you?
Dr Malea Jensen (28:22):
It's fear, it's anger.
They go through a lot ofemotions.
When I start telling themthings, they get mad at first.
They're mad at their doctor,they're mad at themselves for
not knowing that.
They go through a lot of anger.
Then they go through fear.
Am I making the right decision?
(28:43):
How come no one else see?
I'm in a minority, you're in aminority, okay?
We're we're we're in aminority, and they're seeing a
consensus of doctors followingone path, and then there's these
offsprouts like ourselves, andyou're saying, Well, how do I
trust you?
Don't trust me, go look it up.
(29:05):
Don't trust your doctor either.
Go look it up.
Learn how to question yourdoctor.
You will find out their trueselves when they dismiss you and
say something to this effect,you know, we're not going to see
eye to eye on things, so itmight be best for you to find a
different doctor.
(29:26):
They dismiss the patient.
If a patient does not alignwith them and do what they say,
they're going to find a reasonnot to see that patient.
And it's very putting thepatient down, it really is.
It's it's it's undermining thepatient because of their ego.
Dr Andrew Greenland (29:52):
If you could give every patient one
principle for becoming a moreinformed patient, or more, yeah,
more informed participant intheir own healthcare, what would
that be?
Dr Malea Jensen (30:02):
Reading.
Reading.
Um that's how I went back tomedical school is reading.
I read, I mean, if I if I couldshow you my bookcase of the
books I started reading, and Iwill tell you how this all
started.
When I said it was in 2016, Ihad a patient come to me.
You you asked me about atipping point.
(30:23):
I'm gonna give you a tippingpoint.
A tipping point was I had abouttwo or three patients who
absolutely refused to take astatin.
And I said, Why?
There's this study and thisstudy, and I went through and I
said, We we have all thisinformation.
Why why are you why don't youbelieve it?
And there was one who I meanthere was three, but there was
(30:45):
one, an older gentleman, that hesaid, I care about you, Dr.
Johnson.
We are like friends, and Ithink you're wrong.
And I just need you to lookinto this.
He brought me seven books toread, not one, seven of them.
(31:07):
He didn't force anything uponme.
I would just like you to justlook into it.
Did I read all seven books?
Yes.
When I got done, I wasliterally wanting to quit
medicine.
I wanted to quit because I feltlike I had hurt so many
patients the past 20 years by myinability to look outside of
(31:34):
the box.
I didn't take the time to read.
I did my continuing medicaleducation, but that CME was the
exact same medical schooldirectives.
I never left the box untilafter the seven books.
And then I wanted to cry.
I wanted, I was in disbelief.
(31:56):
I said, How did I not knowthis?
How did I not know this?
Was I in it under a rock?
It was tough.
I thought I was gonna quit.
I I really did.
I felt like I had hurt peopleinstead of helped people.
Dr Andrew Greenland (32:19):
You've not only changed the way you
practice medicine, you've had tobuild a completely different
business model around it.
What have been the biggestchallenges and bottlenecks in
making this all work for you?
Dr Malea Jensen (32:30):
You know, Doc, the the biggest thing was
accepting the fact that myidentity isn't just DR doctor.
I'm a person just likeeverybody else.
I put my pants on likeeverybody else.
I go to the bathroom likeeverybody else.
(32:51):
And I had to I had to come togrips with sharing two two
options.
Quitting, I guess, would beanother option, sharing truth,
what I believed was truth, orcontinuing and deceiving not
(33:13):
only the people, but deceivingmyself.
And I couldn't do it anymore.
I could not do that.
Dr Andrew Greenland (33:30):
I'm just thinking about um from a
business point of view, you'vecompletely changed models.
I just wondered, particularlywhen you're spending up to three
hours with the one-on-onepatients, how do you kind of
make it work?
Because it's it is a verydifferent model, and it's
something you feel much morecomfortable in.
I'm just curious to know how itworks out.
Dr Malea Jensen (33:47):
I I spend my mornings really working on a
patient, and I spend myafternoons educating myself.
I used to not be as rigid whenI first started, and now I'm I'm
very rigid.
I I go work out in the morningand just staying rigid, staying
with a consistent schedule, andthen spending that time.
(34:10):
Some of them are are easy,okay?
Some of them arestraightforward, and I can get
through them much easier, andothers, I said go, something is
just not right here.
And I deep dive, and I couldspend you know three hours, but
at the time that I'm working onthat patient, I'm also educating
(34:31):
myself.
Does that make sense?
Because I'm reading and I'mdigging even more questions.
Yes, it relates to the patient,but it's also helping me for
future patients.
So could it eventually looklike it's not three hours on a
patient?
Possibly, possibly.
But I know I know me, and theeducation just doesn't stop.
(34:52):
And but I'm very now I'm veryrigid about my schedule, and
that has helped, you know.
I'm still working and learning,working and learning, helping
people learning, helping peoplelearning.
I don't know if I would call ita business model.
(35:13):
It's almost like it's a hobbymodel, it's my hobby model.
I I don't have a businessmodel.
If you ask me, give me yourbusiness model, I'd say, yeah, I
go from day to day.
I don't even, and I got a I gota paper calendar.
I you you know, yours are allfancy.
You must have given me 10reminders about this interview
(35:35):
coming up.
And I have nothing like that.
I'll email them and say, youknow, um, hey, we got this thing
going on.
You still on for it?
Yep, we're good, we're good.
Okay, I'll send you a textright before we we start.
I mean, it's it's reallyancient the way I do things.
Dr Andrew Greenland (35:55):
And in your hobby model, as you called it,
what are the things that costyou the most time and energy and
money?
Dr Malea Jensen (36:03):
Um money-wise, I I mean, not a lot.
I you know, be I I did purchasea new computer, and I have to
thank my listeners for helpingme do that.
That was amazing.
Okay, so I you know, I have acomputer that I've been using
for um this this computer we'reon right now is 14 years old,
(36:28):
and people it convinced me Ineed a new computer, I need to
speed things up, and so withtheir help, meaning their
consultations, their superchats, their super whatever's
super stickers, it has helpedpaper a new computer.
My time is not much changed.
(36:52):
My time is centered aroundeducating myself so I can
educate people.
I do not want to be, I hatebeing wrong, and I hate giving
bad advice.
I just I work hard not to givebad advice.
And when I tell a patient Idon't know, I really don't know.
(37:14):
There's no answer sometimes.
What you've been told that wascomplete rock solid, it's not
that might not be.
And I'm gonna tell them why.
So just think about this, justthink like use your brain, just
think about this situation.
Does that sound legit to you?
No, but how do you know?
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:35):
I don't know, but it doesn't sound
right, and so computer upgraded.
If I gave you a magic wand andyou could fix anything else in
the business tomorrow, whatwould that be, if anything?
Dr Malea Jensen (37:52):
If I could fix the one thing, it would still
be, I believe, my peace of mind.
Am I doing the right thing?
I I question that, and thenI'll have a day where I have no
questions, but if I could in theand it uh again, uh the the
(38:15):
magic wand, I I'm very blessed.
I I really am.
I have no regrets.
Everything's been a learningexperience.
Even when I was bamboozled withbuffoonery, I have no regrets.
And so if you gave me a magicwand, you know what?
It'd be it'd be okay, but I I'mjust in a in a process on a
(38:38):
journey to learn, and the magicwand would say, Calm down,
you're okay, you can do this.
That would be it.
Dr Andrew Greenland (38:49):
Where does that validation come from at the
moment?
Obviously, the magic wand is atheoretical construct, but where
do you get the validation from?
Dr Malea Jensen (38:57):
Definitely the clients.
Um, when they when they give aa compliment, or it's not even a
compliment, it's a thank you.
I've been thanked so many timesthat I hadn't gotten in the
previous 27 years from my brickand mortar clients patients.
(39:21):
They felt obligated to come in.
In order to get theirprescription, I needed to check
their their labs.
I was not gonna just do ayear's.
I I can't, because if I misssomething, that's on me, not on
you.
They did not want to come insometimes, they didn't want to
(39:44):
get my wrath, right?
They didn't want to hear me sayone more time or ask one more
time, what does your exerciselook like?
What does your sleep look like?
What are you eating?
They didn't want it.
These people want it.
It is totally different.
Clientele, they want education,they they desire it.
(40:08):
They're paying out of pocket,they're not using insurance.
These people want to learn,they want to heal, they do not
want to take medications.
It's a different clientele.
I love it, they thank me.
It feels good.
That is validation.
That that's my validation isthe client saying, You're okay,
(40:31):
you got this.
Thank you so much.
You're you're putting out therewhat no one else will do.
And when they say no one else,they know that they're following
other people with our withlike-minded ideas, okay?
So I'm not like the only one,but it's we all have the same.
I bet if you were asked all ofthe like-minded docs on there
(40:54):
who left their pride, they wouldall have this exact same
scenario if they were honest.
Dr Andrew Greenland (41:03):
So, what where does the where's the
future for you?
What are you looking to do ummaybe in the next year or so?
Um, I guess you're not gonna beretiring anytime soon.
So, what's the kind of futurehold for you?
Dr Malea Jensen (41:14):
I think just continuing what I'm doing and
continuing to learn.
I'm not, you know, I'm not oneof those um docs that's gonna
start opening up a business,hire a whole bunch of online
coaches and that people hire Dr.
Jensen for Dr.
Jensen.
They don't hire Dr.
Jensen to talk to Dr.
Jensen's health coach and medeveloping a health coach, and I
(41:35):
teach them all, and then theygo out and be disciples and do
all that.
I have no interest.
The the reason people listen tome or want to talk to me or
want to learn from me is theywant me, not my assistant.
And as long as I can do that,this platform will look exactly
the same.
I'll get better because I willI will be quicker.
(41:59):
I imagine myself, this has onlybeen a couple years, new three,
four years education.
It will start clicking evenmore.
We're gonna we're I'm gonna getthis.
That's what my future lookslike is this clicking.
The dots are connecting rightnow.
I got all these loose dots, andI'm helping people connect
(42:20):
dots, but eventually the dotsare gonna just like fall right
into place.
Dr Andrew Greenland (42:28):
And in closing, if there's one idea
you'd like practitioners andlistening to this conversation
to take away and thinkdifferently about tomorrow, what
would that be?
Dr Malea Jensen (42:39):
Independence.
They need to get back to usingtheir own brain, they really do.
I did, I needed to get back tousing my brain.
We have a ton of education, andwe are allowing, I believe we
are allowing an elite class runus over and use us for their
(43:04):
agendas, and I I won't have itanymore.
And it took me a long time tosee where I needed to be me
again, and I wasn't, I was them,and I identified with them, and
I'm I I had to give up, youhave to give up a lot, and
that's what it's gonna take.
It's gonna have you giving upyour lifestyle and giving up
(43:26):
your it the lifestyle will lookdifferent, it it's it surely
will, but you the gratificationis helping people.
Well, if they say they'rehelping people now, I I just
can't get on board with that.
You're you're helping people betrapped in a system, and we can
(43:51):
help that person and ourselvesget out of a trap.
Dr Andrew Greenland (44:00):
Manus, thank you so much for sharing
your story.
It's been very, reallyinspiring and such an honest
reflection.
And what strikes me most is thecourage it takes to step away
from a model you've spent yearsand decades building and
creating something entirelydifferent.
And whether listeners agreewith every perspective or not, I
think there's tremendous valuein hearing how experienced
practitioners think throughthese challenges like you've
(44:20):
done and how they're exploringnew ways to serve patients.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
I really appreciate the thehonesty and the insights that
you brought to the conversation.
Thank you.
Dr Malea Jensen (44:29):
Yeah, it's been an honor to be with you, and I
want to thank you for invitingme on.
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