July 29, 2026 • 41 mins
Most clinics don’t fail because the care is bad. They fail because the business model, systems, and boundaries never get built. We’re joined by Dr Danielle Lewis, founder of Harmony Integrative Healthcare, to talk honestly about what it takes to run a sustainable naturopathic and functional medicine practice while staying grounded in excellent patient care.
Dr Lewis shares how early exposure to holistic health shaped her clinical lens, then walks us through the real evolution of a women’s health clinic: the moment you realise you’re undercharging, the pressure of loans and overheads, and the decision to stop trying to “see everyone” and instead specialise in hormones, thyroid, fertility, and complex gynaecological concerns. We also unpack the membership-based model she now uses and why it improves follow-through, keeps patients accountable, and protects the long-term maintenance phase that so often gets missed in fee-for-service care.
We go deep on the parts nobody teaches in medical training: market research, pricing, coaching, mindset shifts, hiring, and leadership. Dr Lewis explains her team structure, the communication systems that protect the patient experience, and the personal routines and boundaries that reduce stress. Finally, we explore multi-state virtual practice across Arizona, Maryland, and DC, including scope-of-practice limits around prescribing and acupuncture, and what that means for operations and advocacy.
If you’re building a clinic, leading a team, or rethinking how integrative healthcare should work, this conversation will give you practical ideas you can use today. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review telling us what you want to improve in your own practice.
Guest Biography
Dr Danielle Lewis, NMD is the founder of Harmony Integrative Healthcare, a naturopathic medical practice specialising in women's health, hormones, thyroid disorders and fertility.
Now celebrating more than ten years in practice, Danielle has built a successful multi-state clinic and developed a membership-based care model designed to improve patient accountability and long-term outcomes. Alongside clinical practice, she teaches gynaecology at her alma mater, mentors future practitioners and is passionate about helping clinicians bridge the gap between excellent patient care and sustainable business ownership.
- Website: https://www.harmony.care
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdaniellenlewis/
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About the podcast
Voices in Health and Wellness features conversations at the intersection of medicine, lifestyle, and human potential, with clinicians, scientists, and thinkers shaping the future of care.
About Dr Andrew Greenland
UK-based medical doctor and founder of Greenland Medical, specialising in Integrative and Functional Medicine. Trained in both conventional and root-cause approaches, Andrew helps people optimise health, performance, and longevity, with a focus on cognitive resilience and healthy ageing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:03):
So, welcome to another episode of Voices in
Health and Wellness.
This is the show where weexplore the business,
operational, and leadership sideof healthcare with
practitioners who are buildingsuccessful clinics and
redefining modern care.
Today's guest is Dr.
Danielle Lewis, founder ofHarmony Integrative Healthcare
in Phoenix, Arizona.
Danielle is a naturopathicdoctor with more than a decade
of clinical experiencespecializing in women's health,
(00:25):
including hormones, thyroidconditions, and fertility.
She operates across multiplestates and successfully
implemented a practitioner, amembership-based model, and
brings a unique perspective onthe challenges that healthcare
professionals face whenbalancing clinical excellence
with business growth.
So, Daniel, welcome to theshow.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr Danielle Lewis (00:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:46):
So maybe we can start at the beginning, if
we will, rewind to the beginningof your career, and maybe just
talk about your journey and whatdrew you into naturopathic
medicine in the first place.
Dr Danielle Lewis (00:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I always describe my mother asbeing the number one naturopath.
And so I was exposed to thistype of medicine without knowing
that it was an official degreeearly on in life.
And so me and my sisters allhad various, you know, childhood
things that we dealt with, butmy mom was very adamant, I would
(01:19):
say, about um finding moreholistic ways of treating us.
So I'll use myself as anexample.
I had eczema, really badeczema, the type that when the
seasons would change, my skinwould crack and bleed.
Um, and instead of her justputting me on several rounds of
steroids, she did her researchand I and ended up putting me on
(01:42):
a nutritional plan that wasseasonal.
So she worked with mydigestion, which we are, you
know, now being a naturopath,I'm fully aware of the
implications of, you know, howdiet plays into the inflammatory
process associated with eczemaand any form of dermatitis,
really.
Um, and so I grew up with umthat way of thinking about
(02:05):
medicine.
And so I knew I wanted to be adoctor, but my way of practicing
or what I knew as medicine wasdifferent than kind of the
conventional model we see umhere in the US.
And I found a person who was anastropathic doctor, had never
heard of it before, and um, andstarted to explore that and was
(02:25):
really drawn to the fact thatit's the combination of both
conventional medicine withholistic um characteristics to
it, with the herbal, the herbalpiece, the oriental medicine
piece, Ayurvedic medicine, allof those types of things,
lifestyle medicine, which is howI was, which is how I was
raised.
I've been getting acupuncturesince I was 10 years old.
(02:46):
I've um homeopathy saved mymom's life.
Um, so that's what really drewme to becoming a naturopathic
doctor.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:55):
Fantastic.
So tell us about where you'reat today in 2026.
What have you created?
What's your practice look likeat the moment?
Dr Danielle Lewis (03:04):
So I'm actually 10 years in practice
this year, which I I've been,it's been a part of my milestone
celebrations with my socialmedia because I think it is
something to definitelycelebrate, especially with being
like a small, a small practice.
Um, so 10 years in, I did doafter I went to naturopathic
medical school, I did two yearsof residency intentionally in a
(03:27):
successful business because Iwanted to see what it looked
like to run a successfulbusiness because I know it's not
easy.
And then right after residency,I started my own practice.
And and so it has definitelyevolved over the years, I would
say.
Like I was definitelyundercharging early on in
practice.
I think my new patient visitswere, I think I was charging
(03:50):
like $97 or something like that.
And my overhead was low at thetime, it was sustainable for me
and my lifestyle.
But then when student loansstarted to kick in and and all
of it, and life started lifing,and you wanted to like buy a
house and all these things, it'slike, okay, either I'm seeing
100 patients a day or I'm goingto change this um this model.
(04:12):
And so I accredit a lot of myjourney.
And what I tell people is thatif you're going into medicine
and you're going to be abusiness owner, you have to be
flexible.
You have to be willing to gowith the flow, kind of ebb and
flow with the times.
And so I was fee for serviceinitially, and then I gradually
(04:33):
I got coaching.
Um, and coaching can be alittle bit tricky because you
have to figure out what type ofcoach you need, and sometimes
that's hard to figure out.
Um, but you know, I hadcoaching around figuring out my
worth.
I had coaching around umfinancially figuring out what I
should realistically charge thatwould still make me accessible
(04:54):
to my patients, but still umallowed me to pay my bills,
basically.
Um, and then over the years,I've kind of evolved into this
membership model.
And what I like about themembership model is that it um
it allows my patients to beinvested in their health from
the beginning.
So you're we're both kind ofentering into a contract with
(05:17):
each other where you're thepatient is um committing to
showing up and doing the work.
And because they're financiallycommitted, they're more likely
to show up and do the work.
Um and for and I'm and I'mcommitting to showing up and and
providing you know high-levelguidance, which I've always done
for my patients through throughtheir care.
(05:41):
Um and so, but what thatmembership looks like has kind
of evolved um over the years,um, especially just recently,
because financially, you know,especially in the US, there are
um there like uh people'sfinancial situations have
changed drastically over thepast couple of years.
(06:03):
So we have to, like I'vefigured out, still keeping the
membership model, what that whatthat looks like to continue,
because my big thing iscontinuing to be accessible to
my patients since I don't acceptinsurance.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:16):
Thank you.
Great insight.
So I want to dig into the thebusiness side of things a little
bit later on because it'sreally helpful.
And congratulations, by theway, on your anniversary.
That's a landmark achievement.
So well done.
But thinking about that thattime when you initially opened
your practice, what was yourvision at that point before you
gleaned all these greatlearnings about how you were
going to do things?
What was your kind of grandplan when you just opened your
(06:37):
and opened your door?
Dr Danielle Lewis (06:39):
You know, I feel like you're when you first
graduate from medical school,you're like this uh rose-colored
glasses.
You know, I want to helpeverybody.
I want to do, I want to giveeverybody these kind of long
drawn-out treatment plans, youknow, with all this information
that they've never heard before,because it's a whole different
way of thinking about theirhealth.
And I have like all theinformation that they that they
(07:01):
need.
Um, and so I would say in thevery beginning, I was just like,
oh, I have something, I haveoptions for patients, especially
women's health, especiallyminority women's health, um, in
regards to I wanted to reallyeducate people on um different
ways and and and open theirminds to different options when
(07:24):
it came to their diagnoses.
So, for example, maybe so apatient that um that has been
diagnosed with like fibroids orendometriosis or something like
that, instead of just going thebirth control route, which is
typically what's recommended tomanage the symptoms associated
(07:44):
with endometriosis and fibroidsalong with other things, it's
like what are the lifestylethings that we can do in order,
like in order to give you moreautonomy around your health and
give you more control so youdon't just feel like you're
defeated and you're justtreating the symptoms and you're
not trying to get to the rootcause of you know kind of how we
(08:04):
got here and manage yoursymptoms from um a different
standpoint than just going onbirth control, especially
because a lot of my patientsthat I see don't necessarily
tolerate the birth control orwant to or want to be on it.
And so, like that was my bigoverarching.
Like, I want to give womenoptions, I want to give women
autonomy, I want to show womenthat by making different
(08:27):
lifestyle choices, they they canmanage um their their symptoms
and feel much better withoutcreating other side effects.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:38):
Got it, thank you.
So you said at the beginningyou wanted to sort of see
everybody and basically solveall the problems, and then
you've kind of specialized downmore to facility women's health
hormones.
What kind of helped you ordecided helped you decide to
specialize on those particularareas?
What were the things that drovethat?
Dr Danielle Lewis (08:56):
I feel like it was partially driven by the
majority of the patients that Iended up that kind of naturally
navigated towards me in my lasttwo years of school and clinical
practice, and then in the twoyears of residency that I did, I
kind of like naturally was puton those cases or those cases,
like even to the point thatclassmates that were coming to
(09:17):
clinic would request me to dolike the Royal Women's Exams and
different things like that.
And then the way also myresidency was set up that I was
80% of the time with an in anaturopathic clinic, and then
20% of the time in a in aconventional OB Gyne clinic.
And so that was the foundationthat my training ended up going
(09:38):
in.
And I'm a woman, so I was like,I can resonate with a lot of
the issues that that my patientsare are dealing with, and I
just saw a huge need um for it.
And so, you know, kind of goingback to my coaching, one of the
things that my coaches werelike, okay, I get it.
You go to school, you learneverything, right?
(10:00):
But really, from a businessstandpoint, you need to niche
down, you need to figure outwhat your niche is.
Like you can do everything, butwhat is that one thing that you
want to do well?
And so then that was probablywithin my first two years of
practice is when I had thatcoaching, and that really drove
me to change my branding andeverything, and and draw in from
(10:22):
where my passion was and honein on um becoming a women's
health expert um and andaligning myself with that with
that vision.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:32):
Thank you.
So you talked about themembership model and the reasons
why you've chosen it.
What might it look like for atypical patient?
Like if you think of a typicalpatient with a particular
problem, how does that journeymap out for that particular
patient as compared to a kind ofum fee for service model where
they're kind of checking inerratically?
Dr Danielle Lewis (10:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'll kind of give like aside-by-side of what that looks
like.
So prior to implementingmembership, um, I'll use uh
fertility patients for instance.
So I had you know patients thatwould come in for their initial
visit.
I always schedule them for thefollow-up before they leave.
(11:11):
This is on under the fee beforeI implemented the membership
model.
I would sign them up.
They would usually come in atleast for because at their
second visit, they're usuallydoing uh a lab review.
Um, so they would come in forthe lab review, and then I would
outline for them kind of whattheir timeline of care was going
to look like, how often I wantto see them, schedule them for
(11:32):
their next visit, and then Iwould look up and, you know,
kind of for two reasons.
Either maybe they were a littlebit overwhelmed by the process
of things they had to do, eventhough I do my best to set
expectations within those firsttwo visits for my patients.
Um, they maybe they're like,oh, well, I haven't done this
part of my treatment plan, Ihaven't done that.
So they start moving theirappointments out.
(11:53):
So I'm moving them out, startmoving them, moving them, moving
them.
Um, or they're rescheduling,or, you know, maybe they're
really good, they implement whatthey need to, and they start
feeling a little bit better, notunderstanding that there's kind
of that initial where, like inthe first part of that treatment
plan, when you're gun-ho andyou're implementing things,
inevitably you're gonna feelbetter.
(12:14):
But there's the aspect of themaintenance piece of it and
making sure that we're stayingon track with each, because as
life happens, like the holidayscome around, stress events
happen, like that can throw awrench in your plan.
And sometimes things, you know,I hear from people, you know,
six months, a year later, wherelike basically everything has
(12:36):
hit the fan and now they're kindof back to ground zero and
they've come back into, and nowthey want to come back and see
me to get back on track, versusum uh my for like my membership
patients.
Um, and I I won't just sayfertility, I would say, you
know, especially like myperimenopausal menopausal
(12:57):
patients where things arefluctuating pretty quickly.
What happens is it's likethere's this understood
agreement.
Like I'm going to see you everyfour weeks, six weeks, eight
weeks, whatever part of themembership that they sign up
for.
We're gonna schedule thesevisits.
There's this understanding thatlike this is the plan over the
course of the year, you'vealready invested in that.
And I just found that thesepatients, like they show up,
(13:19):
they don't tend to rescheduletheir appointments, and they,
you know, they still have thatinitial, like, okay, within I'm
feeling a difference within thefirst, you know, two to four
visits.
But then I just had adiscussion with a patient of
mine who did really well withinlike her first four visits and
really attained her goals.
And I'm like, well, now this isthe this is the part where we
(13:42):
need to sustain this.
And all those habits thatyou've implemented that are kind
of new for you.
It's important for us to keepthose habits and for you to use
me as your accountabilitypartner and we check in so that
we maintain this because youdidn't get here overnight, and
so we don't want you to go backto um experiencing the symptoms
(14:03):
and and having to start and lessand starting over again.
And I just find that themembership model really just
that accountability piece of itand just showing up because
you're invested in your healthis has been a key for people
getting better and stayingbetter.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:20):
Thank you.
Nice, nice contrast to explainthe difference between the two.
So thank you for that.
So when we spoke before, andalso on on this call already,
you've kind of alluded to thefact that there's a huge need
for business training fordoctors or practitioners.
Um, what do you thinkpractitioners are taught well
during their clinical trainingand what are they not taught in
this regard?
Dr Danielle Lewis (14:38):
In regards to business.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:40):
Yeah.
Dr Danielle Lewis (14:41):
Oh I mean, I feel like that's a load of
questions.
I feel like we um we learn howto be physicians really well.
And I feel like we get like alike a very basic overview of
running a business.
So I I as far as like medicalschool training, I don't think
(15:02):
that our business training is upto par.
I I tell because I I teachgynecology at my alma mater, and
I tell my students all thetime, like if you want to do
business, or even if you want togo into like the academic
sector, like you need to alignwith people and find mentors and
(15:24):
do, and you're going to have tolike as far in regards to your
business plan, a part of thatneeds to be allowing for an
investment in coaching.
And or like, I mean, there's abunch of online, you know, in
the in the world of AI andeverything, there's also a bunch
of like online um trainingsthat you can that you can do in
(15:45):
this regard.
But I I don't feel that when wegraduate, we're set up to be
business owners at all.
I don't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:52):
No, I agree, I totally agree.
So why do you think so manytalented clinicians struggle
with the business side ofhealthcare?
Is it because the lack oftraining during their training
for this, or the lack of uminvesting in themselves after
training to kind of takethemselves to another level of
developing these businessskills, or do you think there
are some other factors in thereas well?
Dr Danielle Lewis (16:12):
I think both of those are key.
Lack of training, I think notknowing what type of training,
because there's so much outthere, right?
So when you're first startingoff, um it's it's difficult to
know, and it's expensive.
Like some of these courses arethese courses, like I probably
spends have spent tens ofthousands of dollars on like
(16:34):
post-school after we're notgonna discuss student loans and
what that looks like um umafterwards in coaching.
So I think it's um, you know,especially as naturopathic
physicians, we it's not like wegraduate and you you go to
residency and you find a pathand you walk into a career
(16:54):
because we're not licensed inall states.
And so some people like you'rereally a lot of times trying to
set up where you're at and uhunderstanding like market
research, like figuring out whatmarket you're going into,
figuring out what patients youwant to see, who will come to
you, how to get them to findyou, how to build your website.
I mean, there's so many.
I think my initial coach that Iworked with, she gave me a
(17:18):
to-do list that was like 10pages long of things just like
get my business set up, how todo my PLLC, um, and then the and
and um my business plan, if Iwas going to apply for loans,
what that looked like, if I wasgoing to self-finance, what
financially that needed to looklike.
So there's a lot of movingpieces that we're just not, that
(17:38):
we're just not set up for.
And I remember sitting in mybusiness courses and going
through them, and it was like alot of stuff was going over my
head because number one, I havea neuro exam the next day or
like something.
So my priority and my mindsetis kind of focused on that.
And I'm trying to break downthis is like a whole new way of
thinking.
(17:58):
I don't know if you're familiarwith the book Rich Dad, Poor
Dad by Robert Kawasaki.
And so my dad had me read thatbook while I was in medical
school because there is aparadigm, and I was raised in a
paradigm too, where like you goto work, you earn your paycheck,
you get you you invest in your401k, you know, and you you
prepare for retirement and youget all the insurances you need
(18:21):
to make sure you're coveredalong the way so that you can
hopefully retire one day.
And so I think that that's alsoa big thing of it is the
mindset, and I and I did lifecoaching around that too, in
regards to my mindset aroundbeing a business owner because
there's a different mindset incollecting a paycheck every day
(18:42):
versus like, oh, I'mresponsible.
Like if I don't work, I don'tget paid.
So, how do I set myself up forgetting paid when I don't work?
And am I comfortable with that?
Um, and you know, I probablyheld two or three jobs alongside
of starting my business for thefirst three to five years, kind
of on and off.
(19:02):
And then after that, I waslike, I'm going to put all my
energy into my business and justlive off of my business.
But it took me, it took me awhile to get comfortable with
that.
So I think mindset is anotherbig part of it, along with just
the learning the logistics of umwhat it means to run a business
and be an entrepreneur.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:23):
Thank you.
I chuckled earlier on when yousaid that your coach threw you
10 pages of things to do, and itjust reminds you of the kind of
things that we do to ourpatients, and we give them all
this information at thebeginning.
So I just saw quite an amusingparallel there.
Um so obviously, you've been inum practice for about 10 years,
you've had your 10-yearanniversary, which is amazing.
Um, apart from the membershipmodel, which is something you've
(19:44):
really kind of learned anddeveloped, are there any other
big lessons that you can thinkof um that you've kind of
gleaned over the years that havereally changed the game for
what you do?
Dr Danielle Lewis (19:55):
Um, I so I would say just like in life and
business, who you surroundyourself with is important from
a business model.
That includes like any employeeor contractor that maybe you
hire, um, who your businessmentors are.
I think it's important toalways have mentors who are
(20:17):
sitting where you want to bethat are willing to support you
and offer you.
They might not coach you andhold your hand through
everything, but you can bounceideas off of them.
I think that that's veryimportant.
Um I the flexibility, likebeing, you can't, you can't sit
anything in your business andforget it.
You're constantly revisitingit.
(20:40):
Like I just recently um changedmy business model within the
past two months, according tolike what's happening
financially here in the US.
So it's instead of goingdirectly into kind of my big
ticket item, I have pathways toallow people that are at a lower
price point to allow people towork with me, get to know me,
(21:01):
kind of see my style, and thenwe go into the big ticket from
there.
And so you have to be willingto revisit your business and and
redo your market research andsee what's going on and then
adjust with the times.
Um, and I will say, like, Ihave an amazing business manager
who, you know, allows me tokind of take partial, partial, a
(21:27):
partial part of my business hatoff because she's kind of that
person who's always, you know,doing market research, telling
me where it's like she'spatient-facing, and so she's
listening to the patients,they're bringing that back to
me.
And then we make thoseadjustments so I can focus more
on on patient care.
And I, you know, I've heardseveral of my colleagues be
like, Well, I can't afford a VAor I can't afford, and so
(21:49):
they're doing everythingthemselves.
And I would say that's probablythe third takeaway is um you
like you once you get to thatlevel, there's only there's only
so Much that you can grow withdoing everything yourselves,
you're going to have to starthiring people around you that to
do what they went to school foror what they're trained to do,
(22:10):
so that you can focus on youknow being a doctor, you know,
and a business owner, but havebut have that support.
So I would say those areprobably my biggest lessons over
the years.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:22):
Lovely, really good gems.
I like that.
Thank you very much.
So you've mentioned uh teammembers just now.
So what does your teamstructure look like today?
Dr Danielle Lewis (22:30):
So I have so I'm most I'm now like 80%
virtual, 10% in person.
I am licensed in Arizona,Maryland, and DC.
And so I see patients in all ofthose states virtually.
Um, and then I go back andforth to Phoenix about once
every eight weeks to seepatients in person.
Um, I do have like onepractitioner who is there to do
(22:53):
in-person stuff when I'm notthere, like acupuncture and
stuff like that, that I can't dovirtually.
And then I have a virtualassistant, and her primary job
is making sure my phones getanswered, um, kind of doing the
day-to-day monotonous stuff,like making sure labs are in
chart notes, um, things getfast, um, kind of like those
(23:15):
daily tasks.
And then she also helps with myuh with my marketing um piece,
my my social media, I would saymore so than marketing is what
is what she does.
And then um I have a officemanager who is like she
patiently, she's she basicallyis the liaison between new
patients, especially, and helpum educating patients about my
(23:39):
paradigm and getting them on theschedule.
Um, and then um my branding,she manages my well really me,
she manages me too, and my andmy virtual assistant, um, and is
is like my my backgroundperson.
So she runs like my day-to-dayoperations, my financials, my
billing, all of those types ofthings.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:01):
Very impressive.
And with that, how has yourkind of leadership style changed
over the years as you'vedeveloped and growing your team?
Dr Danielle Lewis (24:08):
I had to learn, you know, like I've I've
definitely have gone through acouple of medical assistants and
virtual assistants.
This is my first time having anoffice manager too.
And so I would like I'm becauseI'm a very laid-back,
easy-going person.
Um and I think like I don'tfeel like I become a new person
when it comes to businessleadership or anything like
(24:29):
that, but I had to, I had to getclear on what my vision was and
what um what type ofenvironment I wanted to offer to
people.
Because if I'm if I'm not clearon that, then how do I how do I
train the people who work forme or around me what that what
that looks like and the type ofenvironment that I want my
(24:51):
patients to come into.
And so I would say that I'mvery um I'm very direct.
Um, however, I I like to meetmy employees where they're at,
but I've also had to learn to umto when something's not working
(25:12):
to let it go, you know.
So like whether that's like theperson who maybe is working for
me, you know, like if we'rejust not seeing eye to eye or
this just isn't working, or likeyou're just not subscribing to
the vision of my practice, likeit's okay.
Um, you know, like we're justnot a good fit and it's time for
us to part ways.
(25:33):
Um, if part of my coaching wasto if somebody who's working for
me is maybe not showing up inthe way that I want, then I need
to reassess my leadership styletoo, or my management style.
And so, you know, that goesback to like definitely having
more touch points, like, youknow, getting together, having
(25:54):
meetings, even if it's like afive-minute meeting to make sure
everybody is clear, everybodyfeels supported, all those
things.
And then we move through ourweek, making sure I have clear,
like I there's a lot ofspreadsheets and Google Docs
going through my practice towith check-in points, things
that they need from me to makesure I'm getting them what they
need to support them on theirjob, and then making sure that
(26:18):
um my expectations, those KPIsare, you know, are um are
aligned and we're all on thesame page versus kind of being
like, this person's over here,this person's over here, which I
would say over the years waskind of the case.
It was like I was here and thisperson was here, and then it
took me a while to realize itbecause we weren't really
communicating it well, versusnow I'm big on communication,
(26:39):
regular communication, regularmeetings.
We have these docs that we allcheck into, um, and and then and
then making sure that we're allkind of assessing each other
and including them assessing meand what they what they need for
me to make sure that at the endof the day, my number one
priority is the patientexperience.
Whatever we have to do in thebackground to make sure that
(27:02):
patient experience is equivalentto the value that they're that
they're perceiving that theywant to receive, then then
that's then that's what'smatters.
So I would break it down todefinitely communication,
regular meetings, and being andand organizing, but still within
that being flexible in regardsto this isn't working, let's
(27:23):
change this.
Um, but tapping into that andmaking sure we're addressing
that on a regular basis.
Dr Andrew Greenland (27:29):
Thank you.
I think you may have alreadyanswered this, or ask it anyway,
because there may be some otherthings that are play.
So, what systems have had thebiggest impact on reducing you
know your personal stress andimproving efficiency and the
practice and the way you runthings?
I guess a lot of what you werejust saying around staffing and
the interactions and the touchpoints may be one aspect, but is
there anything else that you'vekind of discovered on your
(27:50):
travels?
Dr Danielle Lewis (27:51):
Um goodness gracious, therapy?
Just kidding.
I'm not kidding.
I think you have to you have tolearn yourself, you know.
I think that it's important foryou to really dive deep into
the values that you've set upfor your practice and be clear
on the type of practice thatyou're running.
(28:13):
Like I I had to tell myselfthat I'm not emergency medicine.
Like that's kind of an ongoing,ongoing thing.
And so being clear, so like mypatients, if they send a
message, it's clear that I willget back to you within so many
days.
And um, and I, you know, you'renot gonna get an answer right
away, but it's it's like settingup expectations um for things,
(28:38):
me personally um settingboundaries too within that.
Um, and and having this, Iwould say the specific kind of
online systems is like within myEMR, there are tasks, like I
create tasks.
So if I'm shutting down at theend of the day and nothing, I
(29:00):
have to tell myself, nothing'sgonna get done after this
certain time of the evening,right?
So let me send these tasks andthey'll be seen in the morning.
I can set levels for howcritical or not critical those
tasks are, and that's and that'stomorrow's problems, right?
That's tomorrow's issue that wecan because I'm not emergency
medicine.
Um from a health standpoint, Iwould say having a morning
(29:24):
routine is very, very important.
Like pouring into my cup firstbefore I start into the day with
my business and my practice isreally important.
So I have a dog, so I get up, Ifeed her, I walk her, taking
care of her makes me happy.
You know, those types ofthings.
I have my tea that gives meenergy because I don't tolerate
(29:46):
coffee, but I have like my teasthat I have, open my blinds, I
see the sunlight, I've got alittle bit of sunlight from
walking with my dog, and then Ikind of do a morning meditation
and or and or prayer, and andthen I ease into my day instead
of just kind of jumping rightinto my day.
And I feel like that reallyhelps to set the tone for how I
(30:09):
interact with my patients and myemployees, um, and allows me to
be able to be present and havethe energy, the mental and
physical energy to get through,you know, some busy, some busy
days without feeling burnt outat night.
Not that it doesn't happen,because you know, Mercury always
goes into retrograde, I feellike it and life happens.
(30:30):
I feel like last week was oneof those weeks where like
everything was happening.
Um but you know, my goal isalways to start my day off in a
way that sets me, sets me and myteam up for success.
Dr Andrew Greenland (30:41):
I love it.
I have my own morning routineas well.
I'm completely with you on thatone.
Now, one challenge that'sunique to your experience is
operating across states withvery different naturopathic
regulations.
So, how can you explain to ushow Arizona differs from some of
the East Coast states and howdo those differences affect
patient care and your kind ofbusiness operations?
Dr Danielle Lewis (31:01):
So, Arizona has, when we talk about scope of
practice, that means like whatI can do legally under my
license in that state.
And so Arizona has one of thebest scope of practices, and
that's where I was trained, andthat's where I worked for solely
for um about 13, 14 years.
And so in Arizona, I canbasically be considered a
(31:22):
primary care physician.
I can prescribe um with verylittle limitations, and the
stuff that I can't prescribe, Iwouldn't want to prescribe
anyway, like opiates and stufflike that.
Um and I can do acupuncture inthat state.
I can um I can run labs andthose can be billed through
insurance.
There are um insurance won'tcover my services, but if
(31:44):
somebody has something calledlike a health savings account,
then they can use that to payfor my services and for their
supplements and if they have acopay on their lab, stuff like
that.
Um, in Maryland and DC, thescope of practice isn't as
broad.
So, for example, I cannot doacupuncture in Maryland or D.C.
I can only do that um inArizona because I did not
(32:05):
actually get a separate degreeas an acupuncturist.
My degree fell under mynaturopathic doctor license that
I received from SonoranUniversity in Arizona.
Um, and so I cannot do those umin DC or Maryland.
Um I can I can run labs in DCand Maryland, and insurance can
(32:26):
be billed for those labs.
You can still use your HSA topay for services and code pays
and supplements in DC andMaryland.
Um, however, in Maryland,unlike DC and Arizona, I cannot
prescribe medications.
I can't modify medications, anyof those things.
(32:46):
So if somebody comes to me andI feel like according to their
labs, they need to, they need tobe put on thyroid medication.
I have to refer them to anendocrinologist or a primary
care that prescribes those andmanages those for them.
And I become more of like anadvocate or a liaison person for
them.
In DC, I can prescribe, but wehave a very limited formulary
(33:09):
that hasn't been um updated inseveral years.
But I can do because I doprescribe hormones and I can
prescribe those at least in DC.
And so the challenge has been,has been kind of like I have to
know where my patients are,because it's where they sit now,
where I sit, as far as um whatI can and cannot um do for them.
(33:32):
Um and it's like it's turningon those different parts of my
brain.
So like the first year it kindof drove me crazy a little bit
because I'd have to be like,where are you from?
Oh, I can't.
And then it's like I'm so usedto being able to manage
medications myself in Arizonathat it was a little bit
frustrating.
But, you know, I'm starting tosettle into it.
I'm figuring it out, I'mlearning how to educate my
(33:54):
patients around it.
They, you know, they're they'refrustrated by it too, but they
understand.
Um, and you know, and I'm alsoa big advocate.
Like I've testified before, youknow, the Senate and House of
Delegates and everything inMaryland to try to expand our
scope of practice to includelicensure in the state of
Maryland.
So I'm also going to advocatefor what I want too.
(34:15):
So that's a work in progress,but um, it's it it just takes
once again being being organizedand teaching my my staff too
when somebody calls, I need toknow what state they're calling
from so I know what I can andcannot do for them under my
license in that state.
Dr Andrew Greenland (34:32):
That's really helpful clarification.
Thank you.
So as a business owner, youwear all the hats, or you
probably managed to do a bitmore delegation now, you've got
a very good team behind you.
But what's the what are thebiggest time drains for you even
now in 2026 that take you awayfrom the things that you like in
terms of running the business?
Dr Danielle Lewis (34:49):
Um, chart notes.
The inevitable chart notes.
I'm sure you understand that.
I feel like that when I goonline and my doctor groups,
it's like, how can we be moreefficient with chart notes?
And you know, we have EMR andstuff like that that was
supposed to make us moreefficient, but I don't know.
There was a research articlethat came out that I totally
agree with after EMR had beenour electronic medical records
(35:11):
had been around for like four orfive years, and it was like
it's not it's not helping us tobe more, to be more efficient,
more legible, but notnecessarily more efficient.
Um, and then I my Office Magicgets on me all the time about
this because she's like, I mean,I like to talk, I like to
educate, I like to do all thosethings, and I'm learning that it
(35:35):
can be overwhelming from mypatients.
Um, and it's a lot, it's a lotof energy from me too.
So over the years I've had tolearn how to still be
personable, but you know,efficiently guide the
conversation, the direction toget the information that I need
in order to better serve thatpatient.
Um and then just like the thethe behind the scenes business
(36:00):
management, the operations.
I mean, even though my officemanager does some of it, there's
a lot of it still lies on me,the financial piece of it, uh
managing that, making sure thatI'm staying organized with that
so that you know I can pay mytaxes and pay my bills and you
know, put money aside to growthe practice and and then
(36:24):
forming, especially being on theEast Coast, I'm new out here,
right?
So it's like net, you know,networking and um meeting
people.
Like I had an event this pastweekend that was lovely, but it
was a lot of work to like get itset up and get people to come
out and do the marketing.
And for me, like my part I playin the marketing now is I have
(36:47):
to get my my um social mediaperson videos.
I gotta do videos, and I don'tnecessarily like doing videos
and everything and taking thetime to do that.
You know, even meeting up withyou is like it's I have to kind
of do the one, two, three tacticof like, okay, Dr.
Greenland hit me up about thispodcast.
I should do it.
Should I not do it?
(37:07):
Like, not to overthink stuffand just being like one, two,
three, let's talk.
Let's talk.
You and I had our discussion,it was lovely, and then you
invited me on.
Um, but even stuff like that,because I've definitely done
podcasts in the past that tookup a lot of my time, which you
did not, I appreciate you.
Um, but um, you know, and theynever got played because
(37:27):
something happened with thesound or something happened with
um, you know, they just did notdecide to to air it because
their business went a differentdirection from what we talked
about and the podcast.
And so I would say that themanagement piece of like the
networking and growth and beingthe voice of your brand and
(37:48):
everything can be can be verytime consuming.
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:52):
For sure.
It completely resonates withthat.
So at this stage, obviouslyyou've got a very well-developed
business, but is there anythingthat still keeps you up at
night?
And is there anything that youwish you could have a magic
wander solve by tomorrowmorning?
Dr Danielle Lewis (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, if I could um oh gosh, that's a
load of questions.
That's a good question.
Keep me, well, sorry, keepingme up at night.
I mean, I I just I care sodeeply for my patients.
Sometimes, like I get somepretty complicated cases where
like I give the treatment planand I worry about them until
they come back and tell me ifthey're doing better or not.
And I worry that I'm gonna wakeup to a message saying that I
(38:27):
gave them the dumbest treatmentplan ever or something like
that.
I don't know.
It's just like the pressure Iput on myself with my patients.
Um, I worry that my messagingto like, especially as I grow my
social media, that you know howwell received my messaging and
(38:47):
like people are people gonnaunderstand how passionate and
how much I want to help.
Is that coming through in mymessaging?
I would say those are like mymy big things, which is which
has held me back from doing alot of marketing in the past,
but I've really pushed throughthat this year, I would say,
this past year.
Um, and then my magic wand, Imean, if my magic wand, if I
(39:12):
could just have naturopathic andfunctional medicine, when
people talk about umpreventative medicine, you know,
in the conventional world, alot of times that's vaccines and
stuff like that.
And I'm not an anti-vaxxer, youknow, for all of them.
But like, but you know, that tome is not preventative
medicine.
I want preventative medicine tobe like lifestyle.
(39:33):
I want people to recognize thatby like making, like by working
with a functional medicinedoctor or naturopathic doctor,
and really honing in on like thelifestyle and and the
implications of stress and justlearning to breathe and doing
these things that seem you knowsupporting their emunctories and
detox pathways and stuff likethat, like the value in that,
and if that would become kind ofmainstream medicine, that would
(39:57):
make me very happy.
Like if I could wave my magicwand and just like have you know
the government and and peoplein general, when we talk about
empowering them around theirhealth, understand that what we
have to offer is preventativemedicine, I think that the world
would be a much better place.
Dr Andrew Greenland (40:16):
Sure.
And finally, what does thefuture look like for you?
What where would you like to bein 12 months' time, either sort
of personally, professionally,or with harmony?
Where do you see things going?
Dr Danielle Lewis (40:27):
Um, I would like to um bring in another
practitioner.
I want to um definitely dothat.
And I so I who to do the moreof my my membership and my
one-on-one care, because I wantto move more into like group,
um, group care, educationalcourses, more like webinar or
(40:49):
online courses so that I caneducate more than one person at
a time.
I feel like it's time to kindof move to like that broader
scale of um, you know, speakingengagements, maybe even um
corporate engagements where Ican be in front of a room of
people, um, whether in person oronline, um, to have a larger, a
(41:13):
larger impact um and and reallyserve that educational piece
that is has been a passion ofmine since the beginning.
Dr Andrew Greenland (41:22):
And with that, Daniel, I'd love to thank
you so much for joining metoday.
Joining me today.
It's been a really interestingconversation, great insights.
Thank you so much for sharingabout your journey, your
approach to business, whatyou're doing clinically, and I
mean your perspective on whereyou were looking to take things.
It's been a really enjoyableconversation.
So thank you so much.
Dr Danielle Lewis (41:39):
You're welcome.
I appreciate you having me.
So, welcome to another episode of Voices in
Health and Wellness.
This is the show where weexplore the business,
operational, and leadership sideof healthcare with
practitioners who are buildingsuccessful clinics and
redefining modern care.
Today's guest is Dr.
Danielle Lewis, founder ofHarmony Integrative Healthcare
in Phoenix, Arizona.
Danielle is a naturopathicdoctor with more than a decade
of clinical experiencespecializing in women's health,
(00:25):
including hormones, thyroidconditions, and fertility.
She operates across multiplestates and successfully
implemented a practitioner, amembership-based model, and
brings a unique perspective onthe challenges that healthcare
professionals face whenbalancing clinical excellence
with business growth.
So, Daniel, welcome to theshow.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr Danielle Lewis (00:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr Andrew Greenland (00:46):
So maybe we can start at the beginning, if
we will, rewind to the beginningof your career, and maybe just
talk about your journey and whatdrew you into naturopathic
medicine in the first place.
Dr Danielle Lewis (00:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I always describe my mother asbeing the number one naturopath.
And so I was exposed to thistype of medicine without knowing
that it was an official degreeearly on in life.
And so me and my sisters allhad various, you know, childhood
things that we dealt with, butmy mom was very adamant, I would
(01:19):
say, about um finding moreholistic ways of treating us.
So I'll use myself as anexample.
I had eczema, really badeczema, the type that when the
seasons would change, my skinwould crack and bleed.
Um, and instead of her justputting me on several rounds of
steroids, she did her researchand I and ended up putting me on
(01:42):
a nutritional plan that wasseasonal.
So she worked with mydigestion, which we are, you
know, now being a naturopath,I'm fully aware of the
implications of, you know, howdiet plays into the inflammatory
process associated with eczemaand any form of dermatitis,
really.
Um, and so I grew up with umthat way of thinking about
(02:05):
medicine.
And so I knew I wanted to be adoctor, but my way of practicing
or what I knew as medicine wasdifferent than kind of the
conventional model we see umhere in the US.
And I found a person who was anastropathic doctor, had never
heard of it before, and um, andstarted to explore that and was
(02:25):
really drawn to the fact thatit's the combination of both
conventional medicine withholistic um characteristics to
it, with the herbal, the herbalpiece, the oriental medicine
piece, Ayurvedic medicine, allof those types of things,
lifestyle medicine, which is howI was, which is how I was
raised.
I've been getting acupuncturesince I was 10 years old.
(02:46):
I've um homeopathy saved mymom's life.
Um, so that's what really drewme to becoming a naturopathic
doctor.
Dr Andrew Greenland (02:55):
Fantastic.
So tell us about where you'reat today in 2026.
What have you created?
What's your practice look likeat the moment?
Dr Danielle Lewis (03:04):
So I'm actually 10 years in practice
this year, which I I've been,it's been a part of my milestone
celebrations with my socialmedia because I think it is
something to definitelycelebrate, especially with being
like a small, a small practice.
Um, so 10 years in, I did doafter I went to naturopathic
medical school, I did two yearsof residency intentionally in a
(03:27):
successful business because Iwanted to see what it looked
like to run a successfulbusiness because I know it's not
easy.
And then right after residency,I started my own practice.
And and so it has definitelyevolved over the years, I would
say.
Like I was definitelyundercharging early on in
practice.
I think my new patient visitswere, I think I was charging
(03:50):
like $97 or something like that.
And my overhead was low at thetime, it was sustainable for me
and my lifestyle.
But then when student loansstarted to kick in and and all
of it, and life started lifing,and you wanted to like buy a
house and all these things, it'slike, okay, either I'm seeing
100 patients a day or I'm goingto change this um this model.
(04:12):
And so I accredit a lot of myjourney.
And what I tell people is thatif you're going into medicine
and you're going to be abusiness owner, you have to be
flexible.
You have to be willing to gowith the flow, kind of ebb and
flow with the times.
And so I was fee for serviceinitially, and then I gradually
(04:33):
I got coaching.
Um, and coaching can be alittle bit tricky because you
have to figure out what type ofcoach you need, and sometimes
that's hard to figure out.
Um, but you know, I hadcoaching around figuring out my
worth.
I had coaching around umfinancially figuring out what I
should realistically charge thatwould still make me accessible
(04:54):
to my patients, but still umallowed me to pay my bills,
basically.
Um, and then over the years,I've kind of evolved into this
membership model.
And what I like about themembership model is that it um
it allows my patients to beinvested in their health from
the beginning.
So you're we're both kind ofentering into a contract with
(05:17):
each other where you're thepatient is um committing to
showing up and doing the work.
And because they're financiallycommitted, they're more likely
to show up and do the work.
Um and for and I'm and I'mcommitting to showing up and and
providing you know high-levelguidance, which I've always done
for my patients through throughtheir care.
(05:41):
Um and so, but what thatmembership looks like has kind
of evolved um over the years,um, especially just recently,
because financially, you know,especially in the US, there are
um there like uh people'sfinancial situations have
changed drastically over thepast couple of years.
(06:03):
So we have to, like I'vefigured out, still keeping the
membership model, what that whatthat looks like to continue,
because my big thing iscontinuing to be accessible to
my patients since I don't acceptinsurance.
Dr Andrew Greenland (06:16):
Thank you.
Great insight.
So I want to dig into the thebusiness side of things a little
bit later on because it'sreally helpful.
And congratulations, by theway, on your anniversary.
That's a landmark achievement.
So well done.
But thinking about that thattime when you initially opened
your practice, what was yourvision at that point before you
gleaned all these greatlearnings about how you were
going to do things?
What was your kind of grandplan when you just opened your
(06:37):
and opened your door?
Dr Danielle Lewis (06:39):
You know, I feel like you're when you first
graduate from medical school,you're like this uh rose-colored
glasses.
You know, I want to helpeverybody.
I want to do, I want to giveeverybody these kind of long
drawn-out treatment plans, youknow, with all this information
that they've never heard before,because it's a whole different
way of thinking about theirhealth.
And I have like all theinformation that they that they
(07:01):
need.
Um, and so I would say in thevery beginning, I was just like,
oh, I have something, I haveoptions for patients, especially
women's health, especiallyminority women's health, um, in
regards to I wanted to reallyeducate people on um different
ways and and and open theirminds to different options when
(07:24):
it came to their diagnoses.
So, for example, maybe so apatient that um that has been
diagnosed with like fibroids orendometriosis or something like
that, instead of just going thebirth control route, which is
typically what's recommended tomanage the symptoms associated
(07:44):
with endometriosis and fibroidsalong with other things, it's
like what are the lifestylethings that we can do in order,
like in order to give you moreautonomy around your health and
give you more control so youdon't just feel like you're
defeated and you're justtreating the symptoms and you're
not trying to get to the rootcause of you know kind of how we
(08:04):
got here and manage yoursymptoms from um a different
standpoint than just going onbirth control, especially
because a lot of my patientsthat I see don't necessarily
tolerate the birth control orwant to or want to be on it.
And so, like that was my bigoverarching.
Like, I want to give womenoptions, I want to give women
autonomy, I want to show womenthat by making different
(08:27):
lifestyle choices, they they canmanage um their their symptoms
and feel much better withoutcreating other side effects.
Dr Andrew Greenland (08:38):
Got it, thank you.
So you said at the beginningyou wanted to sort of see
everybody and basically solveall the problems, and then
you've kind of specialized downmore to facility women's health
hormones.
What kind of helped you ordecided helped you decide to
specialize on those particularareas?
What were the things that drovethat?
Dr Danielle Lewis (08:56):
I feel like it was partially driven by the
majority of the patients that Iended up that kind of naturally
navigated towards me in my lasttwo years of school and clinical
practice, and then in the twoyears of residency that I did, I
kind of like naturally was puton those cases or those cases,
like even to the point thatclassmates that were coming to
(09:17):
clinic would request me to dolike the Royal Women's Exams and
different things like that.
And then the way also myresidency was set up that I was
80% of the time with an in anaturopathic clinic, and then
20% of the time in a in aconventional OB Gyne clinic.
And so that was the foundationthat my training ended up going
(09:38):
in.
And I'm a woman, so I was like,I can resonate with a lot of
the issues that that my patientsare are dealing with, and I
just saw a huge need um for it.
And so, you know, kind of goingback to my coaching, one of the
things that my coaches werelike, okay, I get it.
You go to school, you learneverything, right?
(10:00):
But really, from a businessstandpoint, you need to niche
down, you need to figure outwhat your niche is.
Like you can do everything, butwhat is that one thing that you
want to do well?
And so then that was probablywithin my first two years of
practice is when I had thatcoaching, and that really drove
me to change my branding andeverything, and and draw in from
(10:22):
where my passion was and honein on um becoming a women's
health expert um and andaligning myself with that with
that vision.
Dr Andrew Greenland (10:32):
Thank you.
So you talked about themembership model and the reasons
why you've chosen it.
What might it look like for atypical patient?
Like if you think of a typicalpatient with a particular
problem, how does that journeymap out for that particular
patient as compared to a kind ofum fee for service model where
they're kind of checking inerratically?
Dr Danielle Lewis (10:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'll kind of give like aside-by-side of what that looks
like.
So prior to implementingmembership, um, I'll use uh
fertility patients for instance.
So I had you know patients thatwould come in for their initial
visit.
I always schedule them for thefollow-up before they leave.
(11:11):
This is on under the fee beforeI implemented the membership
model.
I would sign them up.
They would usually come in atleast for because at their
second visit, they're usuallydoing uh a lab review.
Um, so they would come in forthe lab review, and then I would
outline for them kind of whattheir timeline of care was going
to look like, how often I wantto see them, schedule them for
(11:32):
their next visit, and then Iwould look up and, you know,
kind of for two reasons.
Either maybe they were a littlebit overwhelmed by the process
of things they had to do, eventhough I do my best to set
expectations within those firsttwo visits for my patients.
Um, they maybe they're like,oh, well, I haven't done this
part of my treatment plan, Ihaven't done that.
So they start moving theirappointments out.
(11:53):
So I'm moving them out, startmoving them, moving them, moving
them.
Um, or they're rescheduling,or, you know, maybe they're
really good, they implement whatthey need to, and they start
feeling a little bit better, notunderstanding that there's kind
of that initial where, like inthe first part of that treatment
plan, when you're gun-ho andyou're implementing things,
inevitably you're gonna feelbetter.
(12:14):
But there's the aspect of themaintenance piece of it and
making sure that we're stayingon track with each, because as
life happens, like the holidayscome around, stress events
happen, like that can throw awrench in your plan.
And sometimes things, you know,I hear from people, you know,
six months, a year later, wherelike basically everything has
(12:36):
hit the fan and now they're kindof back to ground zero and
they've come back into, and nowthey want to come back and see
me to get back on track, versusum uh my for like my membership
patients.
Um, and I I won't just sayfertility, I would say, you
know, especially like myperimenopausal menopausal
(12:57):
patients where things arefluctuating pretty quickly.
What happens is it's likethere's this understood
agreement.
Like I'm going to see you everyfour weeks, six weeks, eight
weeks, whatever part of themembership that they sign up
for.
We're gonna schedule thesevisits.
There's this understanding thatlike this is the plan over the
course of the year, you'vealready invested in that.
And I just found that thesepatients, like they show up,
(13:19):
they don't tend to rescheduletheir appointments, and they,
you know, they still have thatinitial, like, okay, within I'm
feeling a difference within thefirst, you know, two to four
visits.
But then I just had adiscussion with a patient of
mine who did really well withinlike her first four visits and
really attained her goals.
And I'm like, well, now this isthe this is the part where we
(13:42):
need to sustain this.
And all those habits thatyou've implemented that are kind
of new for you.
It's important for us to keepthose habits and for you to use
me as your accountabilitypartner and we check in so that
we maintain this because youdidn't get here overnight, and
so we don't want you to go backto um experiencing the symptoms
(14:03):
and and having to start and lessand starting over again.
And I just find that themembership model really just
that accountability piece of itand just showing up because
you're invested in your healthis has been a key for people
getting better and stayingbetter.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:20):
Thank you.
Nice, nice contrast to explainthe difference between the two.
So thank you for that.
So when we spoke before, andalso on on this call already,
you've kind of alluded to thefact that there's a huge need
for business training fordoctors or practitioners.
Um, what do you thinkpractitioners are taught well
during their clinical trainingand what are they not taught in
this regard?
Dr Danielle Lewis (14:38):
In regards to business.
Dr Andrew Greenland (14:40):
Yeah.
Dr Danielle Lewis (14:41):
Oh I mean, I feel like that's a load of
questions.
I feel like we um we learn howto be physicians really well.
And I feel like we get like alike a very basic overview of
running a business.
So I I as far as like medicalschool training, I don't think
(15:02):
that our business training is upto par.
I I tell because I I teachgynecology at my alma mater, and
I tell my students all thetime, like if you want to do
business, or even if you want togo into like the academic
sector, like you need to alignwith people and find mentors and
(15:24):
do, and you're going to have tolike as far in regards to your
business plan, a part of thatneeds to be allowing for an
investment in coaching.
And or like, I mean, there's abunch of online, you know, in
the in the world of AI andeverything, there's also a bunch
of like online um trainingsthat you can that you can do in
(15:45):
this regard.
But I I don't feel that when wegraduate, we're set up to be
business owners at all.
I don't.
Dr Andrew Greenland (15:52):
No, I agree, I totally agree.
So why do you think so manytalented clinicians struggle
with the business side ofhealthcare?
Is it because the lack oftraining during their training
for this, or the lack of uminvesting in themselves after
training to kind of takethemselves to another level of
developing these businessskills, or do you think there
are some other factors in thereas well?
Dr Danielle Lewis (16:12):
I think both of those are key.
Lack of training, I think notknowing what type of training,
because there's so much outthere, right?
So when you're first startingoff, um it's it's difficult to
know, and it's expensive.
Like some of these courses arethese courses, like I probably
spends have spent tens ofthousands of dollars on like
(16:34):
post-school after we're notgonna discuss student loans and
what that looks like um umafterwards in coaching.
So I think it's um, you know,especially as naturopathic
physicians, we it's not like wegraduate and you you go to
residency and you find a pathand you walk into a career
(16:54):
because we're not licensed inall states.
And so some people like you'rereally a lot of times trying to
set up where you're at and uhunderstanding like market
research, like figuring out whatmarket you're going into,
figuring out what patients youwant to see, who will come to
you, how to get them to findyou, how to build your website.
I mean, there's so many.
I think my initial coach that Iworked with, she gave me a
(17:18):
to-do list that was like 10pages long of things just like
get my business set up, how todo my PLLC, um, and then the and
and um my business plan, if Iwas going to apply for loans,
what that looked like, if I wasgoing to self-finance, what
financially that needed to looklike.
So there's a lot of movingpieces that we're just not, that
(17:38):
we're just not set up for.
And I remember sitting in mybusiness courses and going
through them, and it was like alot of stuff was going over my
head because number one, I havea neuro exam the next day or
like something.
So my priority and my mindsetis kind of focused on that.
And I'm trying to break downthis is like a whole new way of
thinking.
(17:58):
I don't know if you're familiarwith the book Rich Dad, Poor
Dad by Robert Kawasaki.
And so my dad had me read thatbook while I was in medical
school because there is aparadigm, and I was raised in a
paradigm too, where like you goto work, you earn your paycheck,
you get you you invest in your401k, you know, and you you
prepare for retirement and youget all the insurances you need
(18:21):
to make sure you're coveredalong the way so that you can
hopefully retire one day.
And so I think that that's alsoa big thing of it is the
mindset, and I and I did lifecoaching around that too, in
regards to my mindset aroundbeing a business owner because
there's a different mindset incollecting a paycheck every day
(18:42):
versus like, oh, I'mresponsible.
Like if I don't work, I don'tget paid.
So, how do I set myself up forgetting paid when I don't work?
And am I comfortable with that?
Um, and you know, I probablyheld two or three jobs alongside
of starting my business for thefirst three to five years, kind
of on and off.
(19:02):
And then after that, I waslike, I'm going to put all my
energy into my business and justlive off of my business.
But it took me, it took me awhile to get comfortable with
that.
So I think mindset is anotherbig part of it, along with just
the learning the logistics of umwhat it means to run a business
and be an entrepreneur.
Dr Andrew Greenland (19:23):
Thank you.
I chuckled earlier on when yousaid that your coach threw you
10 pages of things to do, and itjust reminds you of the kind of
things that we do to ourpatients, and we give them all
this information at thebeginning.
So I just saw quite an amusingparallel there.
Um so obviously, you've been inum practice for about 10 years,
you've had your 10-yearanniversary, which is amazing.
Um, apart from the membershipmodel, which is something you've
(19:44):
really kind of learned anddeveloped, are there any other
big lessons that you can thinkof um that you've kind of
gleaned over the years that havereally changed the game for
what you do?
Dr Danielle Lewis (19:55):
Um, I so I would say just like in life and
business, who you surroundyourself with is important from
a business model.
That includes like any employeeor contractor that maybe you
hire, um, who your businessmentors are.
I think it's important toalways have mentors who are
(20:17):
sitting where you want to bethat are willing to support you
and offer you.
They might not coach you andhold your hand through
everything, but you can bounceideas off of them.
I think that that's veryimportant.
Um I the flexibility, likebeing, you can't, you can't sit
anything in your business andforget it.
You're constantly revisitingit.
(20:40):
Like I just recently um changedmy business model within the
past two months, according tolike what's happening
financially here in the US.
So it's instead of goingdirectly into kind of my big
ticket item, I have pathways toallow people that are at a lower
price point to allow people towork with me, get to know me,
(21:01):
kind of see my style, and thenwe go into the big ticket from
there.
And so you have to be willingto revisit your business and and
redo your market research andsee what's going on and then
adjust with the times.
Um, and I will say, like, Ihave an amazing business manager
who, you know, allows me tokind of take partial, partial, a
(21:27):
partial part of my business hatoff because she's kind of that
person who's always, you know,doing market research, telling
me where it's like she'spatient-facing, and so she's
listening to the patients,they're bringing that back to
me.
And then we make thoseadjustments so I can focus more
on on patient care.
And I, you know, I've heardseveral of my colleagues be
like, Well, I can't afford a VAor I can't afford, and so
(21:49):
they're doing everythingthemselves.
And I would say that's probablythe third takeaway is um you
like you once you get to thatlevel, there's only there's only
so Much that you can grow withdoing everything yourselves,
you're going to have to starthiring people around you that to
do what they went to school foror what they're trained to do,
(22:10):
so that you can focus on youknow being a doctor, you know,
and a business owner, but havebut have that support.
So I would say those areprobably my biggest lessons over
the years.
Dr Andrew Greenland (22:22):
Lovely, really good gems.
I like that.
Thank you very much.
So you've mentioned uh teammembers just now.
So what does your teamstructure look like today?
Dr Danielle Lewis (22:30):
So I have so I'm most I'm now like 80%
virtual, 10% in person.
I am licensed in Arizona,Maryland, and DC.
And so I see patients in all ofthose states virtually.
Um, and then I go back andforth to Phoenix about once
every eight weeks to seepatients in person.
Um, I do have like onepractitioner who is there to do
(22:53):
in-person stuff when I'm notthere, like acupuncture and
stuff like that, that I can't dovirtually.
And then I have a virtualassistant, and her primary job
is making sure my phones getanswered, um, kind of doing the
day-to-day monotonous stuff,like making sure labs are in
chart notes, um, things getfast, um, kind of like those
(23:15):
daily tasks.
And then she also helps with myuh with my marketing um piece,
my my social media, I would saymore so than marketing is what
is what she does.
And then um I have a officemanager who is like she
patiently, she's she basicallyis the liaison between new
patients, especially, and helpum educating patients about my
(23:39):
paradigm and getting them on theschedule.
Um, and then um my branding,she manages my well really me,
she manages me too, and my andmy virtual assistant, um, and is
is like my my backgroundperson.
So she runs like my day-to-dayoperations, my financials, my
billing, all of those types ofthings.
Dr Andrew Greenland (24:01):
Very impressive.
And with that, how has yourkind of leadership style changed
over the years as you'vedeveloped and growing your team?
Dr Danielle Lewis (24:08):
I had to learn, you know, like I've I've
definitely have gone through acouple of medical assistants and
virtual assistants.
This is my first time having anoffice manager too.
And so I would like I'm becauseI'm a very laid-back,
easy-going person.
Um and I think like I don'tfeel like I become a new person
when it comes to businessleadership or anything like
(24:29):
that, but I had to, I had to getclear on what my vision was and
what um what type ofenvironment I wanted to offer to
people.
Because if I'm if I'm not clearon that, then how do I how do I
train the people who work forme or around me what that what
that looks like and the type ofenvironment that I want my
(24:51):
patients to come into.
And so I would say that I'mvery um I'm very direct.
Um, however, I I like to meetmy employees where they're at,
but I've also had to learn to umto when something's not working
(25:12):
to let it go, you know.
So like whether that's like theperson who maybe is working for
me, you know, like if we'rejust not seeing eye to eye or
this just isn't working, or likeyou're just not subscribing to
the vision of my practice, likeit's okay.
Um, you know, like we're justnot a good fit and it's time for
us to part ways.
(25:33):
Um, if part of my coaching wasto if somebody who's working for
me is maybe not showing up inthe way that I want, then I need
to reassess my leadership styletoo, or my management style.
And so, you know, that goesback to like definitely having
more touch points, like, youknow, getting together, having
(25:54):
meetings, even if it's like afive-minute meeting to make sure
everybody is clear, everybodyfeels supported, all those
things.
And then we move through ourweek, making sure I have clear,
like I there's a lot ofspreadsheets and Google Docs
going through my practice towith check-in points, things
that they need from me to makesure I'm getting them what they
need to support them on theirjob, and then making sure that
(26:18):
um my expectations, those KPIsare, you know, are um are
aligned and we're all on thesame page versus kind of being
like, this person's over here,this person's over here, which I
would say over the years waskind of the case.
It was like I was here and thisperson was here, and then it
took me a while to realize itbecause we weren't really
communicating it well, versusnow I'm big on communication,
(26:39):
regular communication, regularmeetings.
We have these docs that we allcheck into, um, and and then and
then making sure that we're allkind of assessing each other
and including them assessing meand what they what they need for
me to make sure that at the endof the day, my number one
priority is the patientexperience.
Whatever we have to do in thebackground to make sure that
(27:02):
patient experience is equivalentto the value that they're that
they're perceiving that theywant to receive, then then
that's then that's what'smatters.
So I would break it down todefinitely communication,
regular meetings, and being andand organizing, but still within
that being flexible in regardsto this isn't working, let's
(27:23):
change this.
Um, but tapping into that andmaking sure we're addressing
that on a regular basis.
Dr Andrew Greenland (27:29):
Thank you.
I think you may have alreadyanswered this, or ask it anyway,
because there may be some otherthings that are play.
So, what systems have had thebiggest impact on reducing you
know your personal stress andimproving efficiency and the
practice and the way you runthings?
I guess a lot of what you werejust saying around staffing and
the interactions and the touchpoints may be one aspect, but is
there anything else that you'vekind of discovered on your
(27:50):
travels?
Dr Danielle Lewis (27:51):
Um goodness gracious, therapy?
Just kidding.
I'm not kidding.
I think you have to you have tolearn yourself, you know.
I think that it's important foryou to really dive deep into
the values that you've set upfor your practice and be clear
on the type of practice thatyou're running.
(28:13):
Like I I had to tell myselfthat I'm not emergency medicine.
Like that's kind of an ongoing,ongoing thing.
And so being clear, so like mypatients, if they send a
message, it's clear that I willget back to you within so many
days.
And um, and I, you know, you'renot gonna get an answer right
away, but it's it's like settingup expectations um for things,
(28:38):
me personally um settingboundaries too within that.
Um, and and having this, Iwould say the specific kind of
online systems is like within myEMR, there are tasks, like I
create tasks.
So if I'm shutting down at theend of the day and nothing, I
(29:00):
have to tell myself, nothing'sgonna get done after this
certain time of the evening,right?
So let me send these tasks andthey'll be seen in the morning.
I can set levels for howcritical or not critical those
tasks are, and that's and that'stomorrow's problems, right?
That's tomorrow's issue that wecan because I'm not emergency
medicine.
Um from a health standpoint, Iwould say having a morning
(29:24):
routine is very, very important.
Like pouring into my cup firstbefore I start into the day with
my business and my practice isreally important.
So I have a dog, so I get up, Ifeed her, I walk her, taking
care of her makes me happy.
You know, those types ofthings.
I have my tea that gives meenergy because I don't tolerate
(29:46):
coffee, but I have like my teasthat I have, open my blinds, I
see the sunlight, I've got alittle bit of sunlight from
walking with my dog, and then Ikind of do a morning meditation
and or and or prayer, and andthen I ease into my day instead
of just kind of jumping rightinto my day.
And I feel like that reallyhelps to set the tone for how I
(30:09):
interact with my patients and myemployees, um, and allows me to
be able to be present and havethe energy, the mental and
physical energy to get through,you know, some busy, some busy
days without feeling burnt outat night.
Not that it doesn't happen,because you know, Mercury always
goes into retrograde, I feellike it and life happens.
(30:30):
I feel like last week was oneof those weeks where like
everything was happening.
Um but you know, my goal isalways to start my day off in a
way that sets me, sets me and myteam up for success.
Dr Andrew Greenland (30:41):
I love it.
I have my own morning routineas well.
I'm completely with you on thatone.
Now, one challenge that'sunique to your experience is
operating across states withvery different naturopathic
regulations.
So, how can you explain to ushow Arizona differs from some of
the East Coast states and howdo those differences affect
patient care and your kind ofbusiness operations?
Dr Danielle Lewis (31:01):
So, Arizona has, when we talk about scope of
practice, that means like whatI can do legally under my
license in that state.
And so Arizona has one of thebest scope of practices, and
that's where I was trained, andthat's where I worked for solely
for um about 13, 14 years.
And so in Arizona, I canbasically be considered a
(31:22):
primary care physician.
I can prescribe um with verylittle limitations, and the
stuff that I can't prescribe, Iwouldn't want to prescribe
anyway, like opiates and stufflike that.
Um and I can do acupuncture inthat state.
I can um I can run labs andthose can be billed through
insurance.
There are um insurance won'tcover my services, but if
(31:44):
somebody has something calledlike a health savings account,
then they can use that to payfor my services and for their
supplements and if they have acopay on their lab, stuff like
that.
Um, in Maryland and DC, thescope of practice isn't as
broad.
So, for example, I cannot doacupuncture in Maryland or D.C.
I can only do that um inArizona because I did not
(32:05):
actually get a separate degreeas an acupuncturist.
My degree fell under mynaturopathic doctor license that
I received from SonoranUniversity in Arizona.
Um, and so I cannot do those umin DC or Maryland.
Um I can I can run labs in DCand Maryland, and insurance can
(32:26):
be billed for those labs.
You can still use your HSA topay for services and code pays
and supplements in DC andMaryland.
Um, however, in Maryland,unlike DC and Arizona, I cannot
prescribe medications.
I can't modify medications, anyof those things.
(32:46):
So if somebody comes to me andI feel like according to their
labs, they need to, they need tobe put on thyroid medication.
I have to refer them to anendocrinologist or a primary
care that prescribes those andmanages those for them.
And I become more of like anadvocate or a liaison person for
them.
In DC, I can prescribe, but wehave a very limited formulary
(33:09):
that hasn't been um updated inseveral years.
But I can do because I doprescribe hormones and I can
prescribe those at least in DC.
And so the challenge has been,has been kind of like I have to
know where my patients are,because it's where they sit now,
where I sit, as far as um whatI can and cannot um do for them.
(33:32):
Um and it's like it's turningon those different parts of my
brain.
So like the first year it kindof drove me crazy a little bit
because I'd have to be like,where are you from?
Oh, I can't.
And then it's like I'm so usedto being able to manage
medications myself in Arizonathat it was a little bit
frustrating.
But, you know, I'm starting tosettle into it.
I'm figuring it out, I'mlearning how to educate my
(33:54):
patients around it.
They, you know, they're they'refrustrated by it too, but they
understand.
Um, and you know, and I'm alsoa big advocate.
Like I've testified before, youknow, the Senate and House of
Delegates and everything inMaryland to try to expand our
scope of practice to includelicensure in the state of
Maryland.
So I'm also going to advocatefor what I want too.
(34:15):
So that's a work in progress,but um, it's it it just takes
once again being being organizedand teaching my my staff too
when somebody calls, I need toknow what state they're calling
from so I know what I can andcannot do for them under my
license in that state.
Dr Andrew Greenland (34:32):
That's really helpful clarification.
Thank you.
So as a business owner, youwear all the hats, or you
probably managed to do a bitmore delegation now, you've got
a very good team behind you.
But what's the what are thebiggest time drains for you even
now in 2026 that take you awayfrom the things that you like in
terms of running the business?
Dr Danielle Lewis (34:49):
Um, chart notes.
The inevitable chart notes.
I'm sure you understand that.
I feel like that when I goonline and my doctor groups,
it's like, how can we be moreefficient with chart notes?
And you know, we have EMR andstuff like that that was
supposed to make us moreefficient, but I don't know.
There was a research articlethat came out that I totally
agree with after EMR had beenour electronic medical records
(35:11):
had been around for like four orfive years, and it was like
it's not it's not helping us tobe more, to be more efficient,
more legible, but notnecessarily more efficient.
Um, and then I my Office Magicgets on me all the time about
this because she's like, I mean,I like to talk, I like to
educate, I like to do all thosethings, and I'm learning that it
(35:35):
can be overwhelming from mypatients.
Um, and it's a lot, it's a lotof energy from me too.
So over the years I've had tolearn how to still be
personable, but you know,efficiently guide the
conversation, the direction toget the information that I need
in order to better serve thatpatient.
Um and then just like the thethe behind the scenes business
(36:00):
management, the operations.
I mean, even though my officemanager does some of it, there's
a lot of it still lies on me,the financial piece of it, uh
managing that, making sure thatI'm staying organized with that
so that you know I can pay mytaxes and pay my bills and you
know, put money aside to growthe practice and and then
(36:24):
forming, especially being on theEast Coast, I'm new out here,
right?
So it's like net, you know,networking and um meeting
people.
Like I had an event this pastweekend that was lovely, but it
was a lot of work to like get itset up and get people to come
out and do the marketing.
And for me, like my part I playin the marketing now is I have
(36:47):
to get my my um social mediaperson videos.
I gotta do videos, and I don'tnecessarily like doing videos
and everything and taking thetime to do that.
You know, even meeting up withyou is like it's I have to kind
of do the one, two, three tacticof like, okay, Dr.
Greenland hit me up about thispodcast.
I should do it.
Should I not do it?
(37:07):
Like, not to overthink stuffand just being like one, two,
three, let's talk.
Let's talk.
You and I had our discussion,it was lovely, and then you
invited me on.
Um, but even stuff like that,because I've definitely done
podcasts in the past that tookup a lot of my time, which you
did not, I appreciate you.
Um, but um, you know, and theynever got played because
(37:27):
something happened with thesound or something happened with
um, you know, they just did notdecide to to air it because
their business went a differentdirection from what we talked
about and the podcast.
And so I would say that themanagement piece of like the
networking and growth and beingthe voice of your brand and
(37:48):
everything can be can be verytime consuming.
Dr Andrew Greenland (37:52):
For sure.
It completely resonates withthat.
So at this stage, obviouslyyou've got a very well-developed
business, but is there anythingthat still keeps you up at
night?
And is there anything that youwish you could have a magic
wander solve by tomorrowmorning?
Dr Danielle Lewis (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, if I could um oh gosh, that's a
load of questions.
That's a good question.
Keep me, well, sorry, keepingme up at night.
I mean, I I just I care sodeeply for my patients.
Sometimes, like I get somepretty complicated cases where
like I give the treatment planand I worry about them until
they come back and tell me ifthey're doing better or not.
And I worry that I'm gonna wakeup to a message saying that I
(38:27):
gave them the dumbest treatmentplan ever or something like
that.
I don't know.
It's just like the pressure Iput on myself with my patients.
Um, I worry that my messagingto like, especially as I grow my
social media, that you know howwell received my messaging and
(38:47):
like people are people gonnaunderstand how passionate and
how much I want to help.
Is that coming through in mymessaging?
I would say those are like mymy big things, which is which
has held me back from doing alot of marketing in the past,
but I've really pushed throughthat this year, I would say,
this past year.
Um, and then my magic wand, Imean, if my magic wand, if I
(39:12):
could just have naturopathic andfunctional medicine, when
people talk about umpreventative medicine, you know,
in the conventional world, alot of times that's vaccines and
stuff like that.
And I'm not an anti-vaxxer, youknow, for all of them.
But like, but you know, that tome is not preventative
medicine.
I want preventative medicine tobe like lifestyle.
(39:33):
I want people to recognize thatby like making, like by working
with a functional medicinedoctor or naturopathic doctor,
and really honing in on like thelifestyle and and the
implications of stress and justlearning to breathe and doing
these things that seem you knowsupporting their emunctories and
detox pathways and stuff likethat, like the value in that,
and if that would become kind ofmainstream medicine, that would
(39:57):
make me very happy.
Like if I could wave my magicwand and just like have you know
the government and and peoplein general, when we talk about
empowering them around theirhealth, understand that what we
have to offer is preventativemedicine, I think that the world
would be a much better place.
Dr Andrew Greenland (40:16):
Sure.
And finally, what does thefuture look like for you?
What where would you like to bein 12 months' time, either sort
of personally, professionally,or with harmony?
Where do you see things going?
Dr Danielle Lewis (40:27):
Um, I would like to um bring in another
practitioner.
I want to um definitely dothat.
And I so I who to do the moreof my my membership and my
one-on-one care, because I wantto move more into like group,
um, group care, educationalcourses, more like webinar or
(40:49):
online courses so that I caneducate more than one person at
a time.
I feel like it's time to kindof move to like that broader
scale of um, you know, speakingengagements, maybe even um
corporate engagements where Ican be in front of a room of
people, um, whether in person oronline, um, to have a larger, a
(41:13):
larger impact um and and reallyserve that educational piece
that is has been a passion ofmine since the beginning.
Dr Andrew Greenland (41:22):
And with that, Daniel, I'd love to thank
you so much for joining metoday.
Joining me today.
It's been a really interestingconversation, great insights.
Thank you so much for sharingabout your journey, your
approach to business, whatyou're doing clinically, and I
mean your perspective on whereyou were looking to take things.
It's been a really enjoyableconversation.
So thank you so much.
Dr Danielle Lewis (41:39):
You're welcome.
I appreciate you having me.
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