August 3, 2026 • 54 mins
On this week's episode I sit down with the multi-talented and ever talented Brendan George. We discuss everything from building our own hospitals to his new show, The Vessel, premiering at 59East59th in NYC.
If you're looking for handmade wooden home decor then my Etsy shop is perfect for you! For a look at my catalog go to: JohnMadWoodworking.Etsy.com
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I want to play that.
You want to do that?
I have no idea what it is.
No, it's great.
It's just a little improv game.
We go through A, A through Z.
SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
A through Z.
Yeah.
And improvise scene.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Create a a little story.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Okay, great.
I'm ready.
Um, all right.
Can I start?
Yeah, you can start.
Go for it.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
I'm in the mode of yes and.
Here we go.
Yeah, great.
You're like, sure, whatever.
That doesn't matter.
I'm like, no, but right off thebat, no, yeah.
Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Are you coming to dinner tonight?
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Brad, I've been thinking about coming to dinner,
but I I I don't know.
I don't think it's a very goodidea.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
Can you just make up your mind?
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Don't be that way.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Don't do that.
Even if you're scared, it'sgonna be a lot of fun.
I think you should come.
SPEAKER_00 (00:45):
Fun.
Fun.
Seriously?
Based on the last game to one ofyour display.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah?
Or uh oh well.
Um guess what?
Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I I don't know if uh me coming to this dinner party
is a good idea because last timeit was it was kind of hellish
for me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Just go in there, ask for a raise, and get out.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Kevin isn't a good boss though.
I can't just go to the di thisdinner and ask him for a little
raise.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
Kevin may be a mess, but he is a rational guy, and
you work very hard and youdeserve this raise.
Maybe.
No.
No, maybe.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
I'll go.
I'll go.
Will you be by my side?
Preferably not, but if you needme, I will go.
That is preposterous.
You're telling me are you justtrying to get me to go in your
place or something?
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
Really, what I need is for you to get a promotion so
that I can quit.
I'd like to quit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
So this is sort of about you.
But so you're quitting.
So will I be taking your job?
Is that the promotion?
Totally.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Uh uh.
Uh very soon I am going to gopublic with an announcement that
will be taking me away from thecompany.
Wait, where are you going?
Xerox.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Zoinks, it's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
And that is the alphabet wave.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
My first time.
I think it was perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
No, that was good.
That was actually quite good.
That was coherent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
That was a coherent story.
Yeah, yeah.
I did famously uh famously.
Famously.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
So everyone knows that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
I did collegiate level improv with the group
known as Improvidence.
Really?
In Providence, Rhode Island.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Oh, that's the perfect improv name, I imagine.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
I know, I know.
Yeah.
If you can judge an improv groupby its title, we were tier one.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Grade A.
Grade A.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
Improv.
It really was.
You could fill a 300-personstadium of improv attendees much
easier than a football game atBrown University.
I love that.
I love that.
Welcome to Working Class Acts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Working Class
Acts Podcast.
I'm your host, John Matalone.
I am joined today by a very,very talented and creative
individual.
He him is a writer and actorbased in New York City, whose
(04:05):
work focuses on existentialcrises.
But in a fun way.
His solo show, A Eulogy forRoman, which I saw was great,
received a drama desknomination.
That's right, for uniquetheatrical experience.
That was at 59 East 59th and atthe Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
Other full-length plays includeThe Vessel, inspired by the
(04:26):
Hudson Yard structure of thesame name, 59th East 59th,
that's where it was.
The Dog Park at Studio Tisch,and Realize Reality Island.
Performance works includeRichard II at Red Bull Theater.
Ooh, we can talk about that.
Premieres of Bleach at theWilson Lounge, and the Crisis
Actor at Laurie BeachmanTheater.
(04:47):
Laurie Beachman Theater?
Yeah.
That's the Laurie BeachmanTheater.
And new works development withA4.
Vibe is spelled Vibe TheaterExperience.
It's spelled interestingly.
You can just cut the wholething.
Oh no, no, no.
Trust me.
I do all of it.
This is all staying in.
I don't believe it.
Fringe NYC, the flea, TeatroLattea, and Williamstown Theater
(05:09):
Festival.
Oh, you were a Williamstowner aswell.
Oh, wait, we were talking aboutthat.
TV and film includes the Wraithof Othello, Tribeca, Youthful
Pleasures.
That's upcoming.
And Gunhild Borkman.
Gunhild Borkman upcoming.
He got a BA at Brown University.
He got his MFA at NYU TishGraduate Acting.
And he has a website.
(05:30):
It's www.brendon.
SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
I don't think there's going to be any
listeners anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
They've all tuned out.
I presume this is your uhInstagram at CuriousBeorge.
That's good.
You know, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
It's Brendan George.
It's me.
Brendan George.
Yeah, Curious B.
George was, I thought, inseventh grade a real stroke of
genius.
That it I still think it's aserver.
It's incredible that at theyoung age of 29, that's right,
holding on to my 20s with thelife.
Uh I still stand by it,actually.
It's good.
It's one of few things in mylife that I stand by from that
(06:03):
time.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
That you hold on to still.
I love it.
Brendan, how are you doing?
It's good to see you.
I haven't seen you in a littlebit.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Great to see you.
I'm feeling good.
I'm the sun is shining.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
It's really beautiful out today.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
I so I'm I'm feeling good.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
How about you?
I'm I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
Yeah.
I mean, except for this anxiety,I'm waiting for this, like I was
telling you before this, andjust waiting to hear back about
a job that I really want.
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
And uh we'll see if it happens.
I have to tell you, I'm in theprocess of casting on the other
side of the table now, andholding holding actors in my
right.
Holding, unfortunately, not onthis one, but you never know.
It got too much.
And I I yeah.
Well, now the whole point of mebeing here.
(06:47):
Um no, I I holding the soul ofanother actor in my hands is is
way too much power.
I just think.
Are you feeling like the weightof that?
Absolutely.
Being on the other side of that?
Absolutely.
Because I mean, sometimes I I'llbe honest, we so I'll jump right
in to say that we have there'sthis show.
It came up in my bio that I'msure everyone was skipping
(07:10):
through.
Is it a eulogy for Roman?
No, actually.
The vessel is going to be a 5090at 59.
So it's it that is announced asof April 14th, which is why I'm
in the house.
Which is after which is afterthe airing of this episode is
after that.
We won't say when this wasrecorded.
Exactly right.
Um, and we've received over3,000 submissions for three
(07:32):
roles.
And it is a very I I I startedas an actor.
I'm still am an actor, and it isa very humbling experience to
the actor part of my careerbecause there there are a lot of
people who I think are not theright fit, and so very quickly
you can just sort of through.
But there are also a lot ofpeople who are the right fit,
(07:54):
and a lot of people who now havetaped, some have even taped a
second time, and who are reallyphenomenal actors.
And I don't like indicate it'slike I want to write a novel to
each actor who we let go at thisstage in the process to tell
them like how valuable they are,how skilled they are, how much I
(08:15):
want to work with them, howgreat they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
We were doing 50 productions, you'd all be hired
for one of those productions.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
But it's yeah, and it's all the cliches that I've
been told, but now I have newunderstanding for about the
things that are not in yourcontrol as an actor.
Like I've loved seeing people'sdifferent take on the material,
some of which is like soexciting, truly in ways that I
never would have expected.
But then there are threecharacters that are on stage
most of the show, and we have tomake sure that the bold choice
(08:44):
from this actor goes with thebold choice from that actor, and
there's just no controlling whatthe other people are bringing to
the table.
So the chemistry of it all.
Um yeah, so I'm I'm feeling veryand and uh on the weeks that I
haven't been getting as manyauditions, I am more patient now
because I'm like, well,considering there's only a
hundred thousand other peopletrying to just get the audition.
(09:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Getting the audition is actuallymore of a win than I than I
probably was.
See, those are statistics Inever wanted to know.
I'm so sorry.
And this is a non-union job,too.
God damn.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Well, I wonder if it's but maybe there's more for
it.
Yeah, I wonder if it's less ifit's a union because there's
more than everyone's part of theunion.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
No, it's true actually, because this is a uh
it is being paid commiseratewith union wages.
Oh, that's great.
Which is great, but it istechnically a non-union short
only submission, so I do thinkthat it's a it's a role that the
the the parts are in demand in away that you know if it if we
were going to a union pool,maybe it would be a different
(09:50):
different conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (09:52):
And are you in this show as well?
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
Not in this one.
I'm brave writing, brave readinginto buttons.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Probably, you know, I I'm I've recently over the
past couple of years startedwriting stuff and submitting
them.
And like, should I be in it aswell?
Because we were also talkingabout free play before this.
For those who don't know, NYUhas a a uh self-produced
capstone project in your thirdyear.
You can produce any show youwant.
(10:18):
And I was producing the wholefestival, right?
Which Alex D.
Oh, did you do that?
Was it hell for you as well?
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Or did you find you took to it a little easier?
Loved it, but it was challengingfor you.
No, no, it was challenging.
I basically um took up shop inEugenia's office.
I had an honorary like office todo the work and that made me
winter show, like in the season.
(10:45):
So instead of practicing for ashow, I was producing the
festival.
Which was scene for me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
See, that's where I fucked up because I was like
doing all of the producingstuff, and I was doing a
one-person show that I was alsolike in the moment writing as
well.
So it was just it was hell.
Um, but I I'm just trying toovercome that sort of uh I think
I sort of traumatized myself alittle bit with doing that all
at once.
And I'm like, maybe it's notthat bad, but also there's a
(11:16):
reason these are all separatejobs, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
You're so right.
I recently directed my firstshort film.
Oh, yeah.
And not only did I cast myself,I triple cast myself.
Oh my god.
I Lindsay Lohan myself timesthree.
Is this a parent trap?
It was it was like a VictorianIbsen inspired parent trap a
little bit.
Stop it.
I'm kidding.
When does this come out?
(11:38):
That's the short film calledGunhild Borkman.
Again, for those closelylistening to my bio, which was
just so thrilling.
Um basically I'll let you knowthat that wasn't the longest one
I've had.
There are some that have beenvery long.
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
There were those things that when you read it
like in a playbill at a show,you're just like, oh, this is
fine.
But then when you read it outloud, you're like, oh yeah.
But that should be nice becauseyou've done a lot.
You should be very proud of it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Thank you, thank you.
It's cool, yeah.
It's cool to have anything totalk about, I think.
To fill a podcast episode withBut yes, so basically, as if
self-short films weren'tindulgent enough.
I cast myself three times in atrue act of narcissism.
But it's short.
It's short.
That's right.
And it's nine minutes of yeah,I'm playing Twin Sisters,
actually.
Oh, very Wait, this sounds bad.
(12:25):
Inspired by, by the way, RichardFellman's acting class, which we
both took year one.
Yes, Richard Fellman.
And he had assigned to adifferent group.
I wasn't not a part of thisbecause it is traditionally cast
female.
Uh-huh.
Um, these these uh classmates ofmine got to do a scene from John
Gabriel Borkman, the HenrikIbsen play, which is very
obscure and is not produced, Ithink, for a reason.
(12:47):
If you read the whole four acts,but I thought there was
something very eerie and spookyabout it, and then I was like,
wouldn't it be so funny if thesame actor was the twin sisters
in this dilapidated, vacant uhNorwegian Victorian home?
And then I was like, what if Iwas that actress?
I see that.
Yeah, then I cast myself as themand John Gabriel Boardman for a
(13:08):
little sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Oh my god, wait, I love it.
Wait, so you're all the parts inthis thing?
Oh my god.
Yeah.
Wait, did you do this byyourself?
No, I was gonna say I like it.
So I am that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
I yes, well, it's sort of echoing the the point
you were making, which isthere's a reason those jobs are
probably and everybody I'vetalked to in post, which are not
myself, I do have a whole teamof people who've been working on
it, which is so great.
Um, I'm talking to people inpost and they're like learning
first what the and they're like,How did that go?
You know, directing her forshort, and you were huh, okay.
(13:40):
And then I was like, Yeah, well,you know, I had a very great AD
and I was like, Oh, I was gonnasay, did you have an assistant
director?
Basically, my assistant directorkind of was in many ways the
director on set he was my eyesand ears outside of it, but they
would like bring me over themonitor while I was in costume
and in frame, and then I it wasit was pretty deranged.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Yeah, I I'm sure it's it's like when you
self-tape, like when you have toyou're like checking your own
takes.
It's like it's a weird thing tolike view yourself in the world.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yes, and I couldn't, and actually just for
efficiency, because we shot intwo days, like I didn't have
time to watch all the dailies orlike watch all the covers.
So I really did surround myselfwith with really friends as well
as like really trusted greatcollaborators who they could
watch everything and be my eyesand ears, and I trust if they
thought it looked good, I didnot need to question that.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Keep moving.
And I actually so far it'slooking good.
(14:27):
That's great.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Well, I'm excited to see it when whenever it comes
out.
SPEAKER_02 (14:30):
Sure, you got it.
Brandon, where are you from?
I'm from uh a town whose sloganis the city that works.
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
The city that works.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
You that's right, baby W E R K S.
Um and that's right.
Did you want to guess what city?
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Wait, cause it's city that works.
Because I'd actually, I don'tknow that I know.
Did you mention where you werefrom before?
I don't think so.
I don't think you know.
I want to say, for some reason,is it on the Eastern Seaboard?
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
Are you a Bostonite?
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
No, but I love that.
Near?
Yeah, I'm I'm a I'm anortheastern man.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Is it Massachusetts?
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
It's not Massachusetts.
But Connecticut.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah, I can tell you by my.
I can tell it.
It's weird.
I don't know what it is.
Yeah.
Because I'm from upstate NewYork, I maybe I can identify it
a little bit more.
Uh so Connecticut, are you?
SPEAKER_02 (15:23):
Connecticut, Stanford by Stanford.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
There you go.
Stanford, Connecticut.
I would never have to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Yes, which actually is funny because I did grow up
knowing that slogan.
Nobody really knows that.
Even people in Stanford don'tnecessarily know that slogan,
but it is true.
And they're not working.
And then when I went to school,for college, Providence, their
slogan is a city that works.
And I was like, what?
And so there's a little bit whatI what I privately have enjoyed
(15:50):
about that is that Stanford isthe city that works, and
Providence is a city among many.
It's like, look, we're notnumber one, but we work.
Yeah, and I any city could say.
I know.
And so now I wonder how manyother cities out there are
claiming there's cities thatwork.
But another city that's works.
These are the cities I go to.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
These are the cities that work.
SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
That's right.
Me too.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Did you like growing up in Stanford?
SPEAKER_02 (16:13):
I loved it.
I really did.
Yeah.
It's a very it's not far.
An easy 60-minute ride off theMetro North.
Um yeah, we it's it's more, it'sa lot more diverse than its
neighboring towns.
I mean, it's a proper city.
There's 120,000 people who livethere.
I went to public schooldowntown.
So I think, you know, you onlyknow what you know when you know
(16:35):
it.
But um that's poetry.
God, hold hold on to that.
But but growing up in a similarway, I mean, even s not only did
I enjoy it, but I think I wasacutely aware at the time, I was
like, there's a lot more goingon here.
There's a lot of different typesof people than it would be if I
was growing up in a more ruralor homogenous community.
Like, say where I grew up.
I don't know, not to name names.
(16:56):
Entirely white.
But um, yeah, I was very, verygrateful for that.
And had a great time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:02):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Loved it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Did you uh where'd you get the the bug?
The proverbial bug.
SPEAKER_02 (17:07):
Yes, the proverbial bug, which I do like you haven't
changed your life.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
I there's a lot of things that I repeat and say
exactly the same way, and I'm Iyou're holding to bug.
I yeah, I'm holding to bug, andalso, but a part of me is also
like, am I unoriginal?
Should I say something?
SPEAKER_02 (17:22):
Oh, I mean I've heard about I know what you're
talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I've said so many things the same way.
But you know, that's that's myconsistency as an actor, folks.
That's what that is.
SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
Hire John Mattaloni.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
That's what I'm all this is for.
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
I would say that I got the bug growing up next to a
community theater.
Ah.
Which was funny because I havetwo older siblings and two
parents, none of whom wereinvolved in this community
theater that was next door.
But um, it true it was likewalking.
It I grew up near a like publicgolf course complex that had
(17:58):
like a tennis court.
So I basically all the things Iended up doing were just next
door.
I like played tennis becausethere were tennis right there.
Yeah, yeah, did theater becausetennis was right there, or
theater was right there.
But um the real actually storygoes, which my mother would hold
me to is that apparently I wasflipping through catalogs like
LL Bean catalogs as a child thatwe received in the mail.
(18:19):
And yes, and I basically waslike, how come these kids get to
be in the magazine?
And she uh basically was like,Well, they're cute, like they're
cute kids.
Which like not what was shesaying about you?
Well, and then I basic I guessum, in a rare act of confidence,
was like, I'm cute.
And then I kid you not, Istarted to go into New York and
(18:42):
do like print advertising as achild.
Yeah.
But I was I mean, I was like sixor seven.
But that is very confident.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
I did not have that form of confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Yeah, I don't know what happened to the early it
was started hot print work.
I'm on yeah, I'm I'm reboundingnow, but um I yeah, that was my
peak.
I was six from boom burning.
It's been all downhill fromthere.
And then basically it was tootime consuming, and so they were
like, Okay, there is a theaterright next door.
Why don't you if you have suchaddiction to attention, why
(19:14):
don't you just go next door?
And then actually, uh, well, myfirst show was I was a munchkin
in The Wizard of Oz.
Oh, of course.
As at the end of the year, as achild, of course.
And then I I stuck around at andthis theater, shout out, Curtain
Call Theater, Curtain CallTheater Theater in Stanford,
Connecticut.
They are amazing.
They're a really, I would argue,like the most professional
(19:38):
community theater that I've everexperienced or seen.
And one thing that's also reallygreat is they have a lot of
programming for younger artists,aspiring artists, et cetera.
So um basically every summer wehad like a youth show, for
instance.
But not only do they do theyouth show, they have a youth
board of directors, if you will,where you from starting from
(19:59):
like the age of 13, you canapply to be on the board.
And if you're selected, you workyear-round to basically produce
the youth show in the summer.
Wow, that is a really greatidea.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
It's into the mindset of like what it means to
actually put on a fullproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Yes, like they ch we select we would pitch the shows,
we would get a short list ofshows from our own submissions.
We would pitch the shows, we'dselect the shows, and then we'd
select we would hire at 15 yearsold, we'd hire the adult
director that was gonna be youknow do doing the show that
year.
And I mean it wasn't without itsdrama for sure.
I've got good stories.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
But um I love back then it's just some drama now
with the show that you'recurrently doing.
You're like, I need to write anovel to all the shows.
No, truly don't.
Oh, I've yeah, I was notsympathetic.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
I was like, ooh, we have power, let's wield it.
Um whereas yeah, now I'm justsad about all the broken dreams.
But uh no, it was it wasincredible.
And actually, it's funny to lookback on the path because I am I
I love producing and definitelyin addition to being on stage
(21:02):
and acting, it was like my firstforay into like producing and
understanding what goes intocreating theater and these
projects.
And um yeah, I still get a lotof reward out of that.
I still really enjoy it.
So that was that was where thebug hit.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Two bugs.
Do you remember what your firstshow was?
Was it through that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
Yeah, I guess it was was Wizard of Oz.
Yeah, it was.
Oh, Wizard of Oz.
Probably Munchkin and the Wizardof Oz.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Um was there a uh uh any production that felt
formative to you, like that likereally like, oh, I'm really
stepping into my own here.
I want to pursue this more.
SPEAKER_02 (21:35):
I do have a couple.
I I will say, when I got cast asWinthrop in The Music Man, in
the adult production, and I wasa named part with my own scene.
That's right.
And and I had some realcharacter work, you know.
He has a speech impediment, so Ihad to really get into the
circumstances of that.
Sure.
Um I yeah, I think I was reallyexcited to have No.
(22:00):
There's no small parts.
Of course.
But I think in the ensemble Iwas really inventing the part.
You know, I was munchkin numbersix and I was creating the
narrative where it was like achance to, in a very early way,
like take on a differentcharacter, circumstance,
identity, et cetera.
And it was super fun.
And I love, yeah, I just I justhad a real ball with it.
So that was one.
(22:21):
And then I would say when I wasin high school, I was really
debating like, do I want topursue this professionally?
My dad is an account was anaccountant.
He ended up an accountant.
Really?
Yeah, amazing.
Well, so then maybe you canrelate to this.
I don't know.
But he's a very rational,practical man.
Sure.
Who's like, it doesn't matter ifyou're talented.
Okay, all right, all right.
He basically was like,statistically, this ain't
(22:43):
happening for you.
So I don't care how talented youthink you are, it's not gonna
happen.
So low percent doesn't mean nopercent.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
I'll let you talk to Andy George.
That's good.
Low percent don't mean nopercent.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
I was very stuck, I guess, in high school, sure,
knowing whether or not this wasa viable path, even though I
knew I really enjoyed it.
And I remember doing aproduction of Pippin, which
remains my favorite musical.
I've done it twice, I guess.
Um, and I was Pippin and Pippin,and he's doing his soul
searching, and I was a junior inhigh school, and the Diane
Paulis version was on Broadway.
(23:57):
Yeah, and I maintain that's likethe best theatrical experience
I've ever been to, and I wasjust like so inspired and
feeling all the feelings, and Iremember that show definitely
was formative too.
That's where I was like, okay,I've got to pursue this somehow.
Um, even though I still didn'tmajor in it in college, my like
five-year plan was I'm gonnareturn to this and give it a
shot.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
You want to hear something crazy?
Please.
I've never seen Pippin, readPippin.
I only know Corner of the Sky.
It's all in a beautiful song.
I've heard of it.
This is what I will tell youthey were doing all the time
when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
I think Pippin should be in the pantheon of
must-know musicals alongside,you know.
I think it is.
It's ish.
Ish for theater people it is.
Yeah.
But when I talk to friends whoare not in the biz, they they're
like, you know, they know Rent,they know Wicked, they know
Hamilton.
Sure.
And I know it's not in thatlevel of popular culture,
(24:54):
probably because we don't havelike the movie.
We haven't had our generation'sversion of it in the Diane
Paulis.
Was we need a movie version ofthe movie.
We need a movie version.
No, I'm sure actually.
And trust me, my friend, my goodfriend Peter Charney would kill
me if I talk about it too muchbecause he's trying to get those
right.
Really, is it?
Um, but but I I think it is sowhat's incredible, whatever, I
(25:16):
could go talk about it for now.
It's just so much other than Imean, the corner of the sky is
beautiful, of course, yeah, butthe show is much deeper than its
superficial appeal.
The music is very catchy andjust it's a kind of fun travel,
but it's really existential.
It's quite existential and quitedark actually by the end of it.
And I love if I there's certainpieces I know I love them.
(25:39):
If I'm like, if I could make onething in my life, I would die
happy if it was just that onething.
And it's like Pippin, themusical, or Harold and Maud, the
movie.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Oh my god! I just saw Harold and Maud for the
first time just a few monthsago.
And it it uh one of the bestmovies I've ever I've ever seen.
It's my favorite movie.
It is so unique.
Oh, and rest in peace.
Um Bud Court just died, I know.
Oh my god.
I know brilliant.
Both of them are just brilliantin it.
I know.
(26:07):
Well, everyone, just do yourselfa favor and watch Herald and
Maud.
It is one of the most incrediblefilms.
The beginning, that that longopener, the most unexpected
thing I've ever experienced.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Well, watching steal from my my own bio, so
wonderfully written by me.
I I would like to say it's hardto find a through line sometimes
of the things that I'm drawn to,but I do think I'm drawn to
existential crises, but in a funway.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
No, but that I think that's like that movie is like
Chef's kiss of it all.
Yeah.
Um, what I was gonna mentionearlier, uh have you watched um
What Hot American Sonora?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, did you see the John Earlydoing Pippin?
Uh so they did like the firstday of camp.
Yes, yes, um, and watch it, butit is.
(26:53):
One of the funniest things I'veever seen is John Early comes
in.
He's like part of the theatercommunity or whatever.
Yeah, and uh Amy Polar and oh Ican't remember the other actor's
name.
It's not Bradley Cooper uh atthis point, but there's likely
in black, maybe, or no, it'slike it's a it's someone who
wasn't part of the original whocomes in.
He was on Mad Men, the one withwhite hair.
Oh very handsome dude.
(27:14):
Yes, the one who looked uh JohnSlater.
Yes, he looks like AndersonCooper.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's him and her, and they'relike they're trying to cast for
this musical that they're doing,and John Early comes in and does
a rendition, a corner of thesky, that is unforgettable.
It is just pandering beyondpandering.
It's so funny.
(27:34):
He's like doing it in a pop,like get him at Macon.
He's like adding riffs, he'sdoing like body rolls.
The John Early way, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
So good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
He's a brilliant um okay.
So you were in Stanford.
When did you make the move toNew York City?
Did you pursue acting right atyou went to Brown, yes?
SPEAKER_02 (27:54):
Yes.
I went to Brown.
I majored in environmentalscience.
Oh.
But I did all my littleperformative extracurriculars.
So I did improv, I did acabella,I did theater, and then I came
to New York July 8th, 2018, ifanybody's wondering.
I was yes, um, so fresh out ofundergrad.
And um, here's a very small butfunny story.
(28:17):
The first job I auditioned forin New York as an actor was like
10 days after I had moved in.
I had created a backstage.comaccount.
I was just seeing what's outthere.
As we all do.
And I was going through and Isubmitted to something, and they
got back to me and I got theaudition.
And so I went to um I went toBrooklyn, which at the time I
was living in Queens, but Ieverything was new.
(28:38):
So I was just like, what's goingon?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I get off at the BergenStreet F-stop, and I walk into
this person's home and I do thelittle audition and I booked it.
My first audition in New York.
It was for a one-act play, and Ibooked the job, and I was like,
Oh my gosh.
This is easy.
I was like, everyone made itsound like this was gonna be so
(29:00):
impossible.
A one-for-one, baby.
I have got this.
This city is uh wrapped aroundmy finger, and uh needless to
say, hundreds of rejectionslater.
I don't have the same hit rate,but it was a yeah, and it was a
very um in this small,gratifying way.
It was it was really I mean, itwas for I think like fifty
(29:21):
dollars or a hundred dollars,but it was like to even get the
audition and to be told likethat's a paid, like you can come
in and do this.
I was like, okay, cool.
I so I yeah, right away juststarted acting as much as I
could and uh working as a tutor,which I still do as a microbial
case.
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
So yeah, you know, that's funny.
When I first moved into Brooklynto like the first thing that I
technically auditioned for inNew York City, I also booked.
And I had a set I was like, oh,this is great.
Like what, like it's hard.
Yeah, it's so fun.
It was like for a uh a sci-fi uhpodcast or a sci-fi pod.
It was called Damicles Clash.
And it was like, it was so fun.
(29:58):
It's still to this day one of myfavorite things I've done.
But yeah, needless to say, therejections did follow.
So when did you decide like youwanted to get higher education
to go to NYU and pursue it?
Because that must be a kind of ascary sort of choice to be like
majoring in this one thing andthen totally switching.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
Well, I sort of I my again, maybe my accountant
father was was haunting me whenI was decision making.
Basically, I knew undergrad Iwanted to get a non-theater
focused degree.
And I did love environmentalscience, was very involved in
that.
And my, you know, in anotherlife, I would be an
environmental lawyer and I'd behaving a great time or at least
a bigger salary.
But I uh knew that whole timethat if this was something I
(30:42):
wanted to really commit to, Icould get a theater education at
the master's level later, or atleast try to get that later.
So it had been two years.
I had really enjoyed working inNew York, and I had booked some
jobs that I was really excitedabout, but truthfully, I fell in
over my head.
Like I booked a solo show.
This was not my own solo show,but um the first solo show I did
(31:03):
was uh the US premiere of a UKshow that was being done in New
York, immersive andsite-specific, in a basement in
Bushwell.
Of course, audience of 14 at atime.
I was playing a male escort whowas audience interactive.
So I was like in the underwear,like giving people lap dances
and doing this like solo show.
It was a whole thing.
(31:24):
Oh my god.
The show was called Bleach.
It was a real trip.
And I was it was the mostrewarding artistic experience I
had ever had.
I was like holy, I was, I mean,I was even the fact that I was
like working, you know, sixshows a week or whatever, like
the fact it was like afull-time, I was a full-time
(31:44):
actor with this show was superdemanding.
I was so hype.
But from a skill level, I waslike, I just feel like I am
totally winging it.
Like I had no idea how tosustain myself, to like really
do this craftfully.
And I did have some theater moremore um accomplished, maybe
further along in their career,theater friends who saw it and
(32:06):
sort of I think they knew thattoo.
Like they supported, but theywere sort of like, wow, that's a
lot.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
You know, I was gonna joke that, like, oh, and
then you got your MFA and yourealized everyone's just waiting
in.
I know.
I'm kind of I have thought I'mlike, would it really feel that
different now?
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
There is definitely that too.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
But you could feel a little bit of maybe pressure
from others or just sense like,oh, there's some greenness from
me.
SPEAKER_02 (32:29):
Yes, even if it was for my own confidence, I didn't
like the feeling of not knowingwhat I was doing.
It's kind of like thedifference.
Again, forgive me because I'm atutor, so this is coming from
the testing world, nobody wantsto hear about that, but it's
like you can get a 96% on a testand be like, wow, I don't know
how that happened, but that'sawesome.
Yeah.
Or you can get a 96% on the testand be like, yeah, I know how I
(32:51):
got that.
Yeah.
I had prepared, yeah, I knew theanswers to these questions.
I felt really confident.
And that's the difference for mebetween getting something right
versus really mastering a skill.
Totally.
And that was the difference wasI felt like there were times
where I was getting it right andI wasn't even aware of how I was
getting it right.
Uh, so I couldn't necessarilyreplicate it or I couldn't, you
(33:13):
know, rely on it.
And I wanted to build thatconfidence.
And so that was kind of whyafter two years, I mean, also
the pandemic happened.
I had a little eat pray lovemoment in Utah where I was
working as well.
I ate um lots of uh Tex-Mexcuisine.
Oh, hell yeah.
I prayed with the Mormons.
Did you really?
I'm not actually in there.
(33:33):
Um I more like was wassingle-handedly, I think,
dissolving the Mormon religionwith my with my sinful ways out
in Utah.
Um and then what did I and Iloved, I loved the snow and
theyself, yeah.
Um but but at that time I was itwas a nice breather because then
(33:55):
I was taking stock as theater,theater's future was a little
unknown, but if it was comingback, I was kind of like, okay,
yeah, I I definitely am I'm allin.
I would want to go to a schoolfor this, I would want to major
and get a degree.
And then that year everythingwas remote because it was the
winter of 20 to 21 and Yalewasn't even, for instance, like
doing an auditioning class.
(34:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So I auditioned, I applied toJewel Arden NYU just to learn
what the process was like,really not expecting I would get
in anywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
I was just like, I'm you you auditioned at a time
when the process was not theprocess.
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
I was just like, well, and I was I was able to do
it from Utah.
So I was like, well, I just haveto wake up at 7 a.m.
But then yeah, I'll get on thiscall and do it.
And um when I was offered a spotagainst my own uh expectations,
I was like, well, I'm not gonnaturn it down.
Yeah, so rock on.
So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
It took me back here.
Yeah, yeah.
Was that whole audition processand callback process all on
Zoom?
SPEAKER_02 (34:52):
All on Zoom, including on the callback
weekend, we had like breakoutrooms where we did improv
exercises in groups of three,and we were like doing
three-person improv over Zoom.
So the the way they I would saythe circumstances of my
acceptance are uh murky.
Questionable, questionable atbest.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
But I'm uh wow, but hey, you made it.
You did it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
But once you get the job, you can't ask why.
Yeah, you just gotta show up anddo it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Be grateful for it and learn what you can, and
yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
And so did you enjoy your timeat NYU?
Yeah.
Because it was a big, it was avery tumultuous time.
You came in a very weird time.
SPEAKER_02 (35:30):
I would not say it was flawless.
You know, I I was, I guess I Iwent in with a very specific set
of goals, and I feel like Iaccomplished or exceeded my
target on those goals.
So I was very gratified by that.
I think it is very, verychallenging on a like personal
and social level when you are inNew York City and trying to
(35:53):
balance your identity beyond theschool because of course an
intensive programmer like thatwants you to be immersed as much
as possible.
But unlike if you, you know,were doing this in a cabin in
the woods somewhere, you arelike in the heart of culture, of
your friends, of your and it Iguess there's a high pressure to
perform at the level that ispresumed you need to perform at.
(36:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you just I think it'sit's hard if you can
compartmentalize your you'retotally good.
It's just that you know, it'swhat happens on the floor will
leave you when you leave it, andvice versa.
And and for me, who had alreadyhad time between undergrad and
grad, and I had friends in NewYork, your friends are gonna
invite you to their birthdayparties and their picnics and
(36:38):
their hangouts, and then eventhough you're in New York, quote
unquote, you're not available.
You can't do any of it.
Yeah.
So you just have to sort ofreally get a f a thick skin and
coldly tell everyone you areunavailable for three years.
And then when you emerge on theother side, you get to be
everyone's friend again.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
But that is that is exactly it.
I remember that being uhdifficult, that that sort of
transition.
And for myself, actually, inparticular, I I was going
through a breakup at the time,so it was like I didn't even
want to be going out, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (37:14):
But it doesn't God forbid you have any personal
trauma for the floor for theacting classes to mine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Oh, they mined it, and I allowed them to mine it,
and I allowed myself to mine it,which was good.
Um, I needed it, uh, but it'syeah, it's it takes a toll.
Like it's it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
NYU to tip school of trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Yeah, there you go.
The of the traumatic arts.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
Of the traumatic arts, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:42):
That's what we learned.
Um so when you got out of NYU,did you feel like you uh could
hit the ground running, or didyou feel like you've had some
some time between stuff?
Because I know you produced yourown work and the transition was
very hard.
SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Uh even though I knew it would be hard, it didn't
make it any easier.
Yeah.
Because when you're in school,you have three years of
guaranteed work.
Yep.
You are always working andplaying and challenging and
pushing yourself, and you uh canget as much out of it as you
want.
I mean, you can sort of shutyourself off, but if you're open
(38:17):
to it, you really can.
And that's why, for instance,with the free play festival, I
wanted to produce it.
I I wasn't that wasn't aselfless act.
I I mean that was fun for mebecause it was like this is an
opportunity for me to likereally invest myself and and
have a an experience and and youknow what have you gain a skill
set and work on those things.
(38:38):
So I think something I'm alittle caught up on is that I
think there's an adage told to alot of emerging artists that you
shouldn't wait foropportunities, you have to
create your own opportunities.
Sure.
Right.
But to me, that is like telling,let's say, a doctor who had
(39:00):
graduated from medical school,who is very qualified to be a
surgeon and passes all hisclasses, and everybody says, you
are so talented, you'd be anamazing surgeon.
I think I know where you'regoing.
Oh my God.
We're not hiring surgeons rightnow.
So maybe if you built ahospital, you could be the
(39:21):
premier surgeon in your ownhospital.
That you built.
That you built.
If you could just, you know,pour the concrete, just make it.
Just make a hospital.
Yeah.
You then the good news is whenwhen you're a surgeon also who
builds his own hospital, you candesign the wings and you can
design the floor plan andeverything like that.
They'll sell it to you like thatas an actor.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
I I so agree with the sort, like in no other
profession would that ever be,is there anything equatable to
what we tell artists in thatway?
Yeah.
It's like going back to theconversation we just had, these
jobs are separate for a reason.
I'm an actor.
Why am I now being told in orderto succeed, I now have to become
(40:01):
a writer, a producer, adirector, like learn lighting,
do all these extra things.
In any other profession, if youwere to sell a doctor, like, oh
yeah, now you have to go toconstruction school to figure
out how to build a hospital,they would go, What the fuck are
you talking about?
SPEAKER_02 (40:17):
Yeah, you don't ask a pianist to build their own
piano, they play the piano.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
So And sure they might get something out of it if
they knew how to build a piano,and if that's up to them, if you
happen to.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
The expectation, create your expectation.
Yes.
So I think that I'm veryconflicted about that notion
because I feel very lucky andfortunate that actually I happen
to like building hospitals,metaphorically speaking.
I do enjoy producing and I havea history of doing that.
I do enjoy writing and I have ahistory of that.
(40:52):
But the expectation that my ownacting career relies on those
skills is even more pressure onthe actor because in addition to
everything we're talking about,it also shifting all the
responsibility from the thingsthat are out of our control,
which are very much out of ourcontrol, and they're putting
that burden of responsibility onyou, the individual, that your
own acting career is yourresponsibility.
(41:15):
And if you are not working, itis actually in some ways your
fault's fault.
Because you're not creating yourown everything.
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
I'm bowing down to you, honestly, because that I I
could not agree more.
I think there's so many bizarrestandards that we push onto
actors.
And I've I've said I even saidthis like when we first went
into lockdown, and self-tapingstarted becoming a thing.
And I do think there are a lotof benefits to self-taping.
I think the number one being youcan do it anywhere at any time.
(41:44):
That is genuinely a boon to theactor.
I don't think it's a boon to theactor that I mean, even what
we're looking at, what you can'tsee on screen right now is the
lighting.
There are these cameras I had toset up, I had to set up the
focus and the shots.
I know I'm like these tripodsalone are a couple hundred
dollars on tripods.
This audio equipment that I'musing.
Uh like this, these areexpenses.
(42:06):
These are this is extra laborthat I have to do.
Like, if I were hired hired tobe uh an interviewer, I would
not be expected like by someother company.
I would not be expected to comein and do all of this, but I do.
And it's the it's this is whatis at yeah, it is kind of
thankless.
No, it is.
It really is true.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
I mean it's yeah, we get so intimately familiar with
that exploitation.
Sorry, sorry to drop the E wordthat we don't bat an eye about
it, and you know, it's easy topoint out a problem, it's not
easy to always present asolution.
But I I think going back to thequestion of transitioning from
(42:47):
school to to post-school, Ithink that that has been the
through line of the last twoyears.
It's only been two years, ithasn't been much time, but I'm
very proud of what I've done.
Yeah, I've I've had a lot ofopportunity, but a lot of the
opp almost entirely thoseopportunities I have created for
myself.
And so I'm so I'm grateful to beworking and have having these
(43:10):
experiences.
Like very shortly after, I Ithink the week after I
graduated, I happened to havetwo friends approach me with
this idea for uh extending ashort film into a feature film.
We had already shot the short,but they wanted to go for the
feature, and they said, We wouldlove to have you back for the
feature, which I was thrilledabout as an actor.
And they said, Well, we also areputting together the producing
(43:31):
team.
Would you want to be a leadproducer on it?
And I was like, That's reallyflattering.
I want to be clear with you,I've never worked on a feature
film, let alone produced one.
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
They said, But I was a producer at 13 years old.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, but at 13 years old with the summer year
theater board.
Um, and they they were like,That's fine, like we're all
gonna learn together, let's doit.
And so, for instance, reallythat was that was like my
postgrad year of film education,was I was working nearly what
felt like a full-time jobproducing this feature film,
then getting to be on set, thenseeing it through to post.
(44:00):
So, for instance, like now Ihave a feature film credit as a
lead actor, which is awesome,but it's not because I
auditioned my way into that, itwas like we built that hospital,
and then I hired, or I wasgetting hired by the fellow
board of directors of thehospital.
You know what I mean?
It's like it's a different wayin, and and I again am grateful
for those opportunities.
I l I had an amazing time.
(44:21):
It's just I think there's thatpart of me that knows that's the
reality I'm working with, and Isometimes wish it weren't, but
it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
No, I feel you.
I really do.
I mean, it it's not somethingyou should feel guilty about,
though, if that's the if that'sin any part of fear because
Because you are creating work.
I mean, just for this other showthat you you mentioned, you did
create work for three actors.
I know, I'm pretty excited.
That's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
I will say, as much as all the heartbreak that I'm
feeling at at this stage, Ican't, we have no matter who our
big three are gonna be, sure.
I'm so excited to be able totell them.
Like we are truly at the stagewhere in final callbacks, and
it's like they are hype aboutthe project, and I'm hype about
the project.
I'm hype about them and theirtalent.
(45:06):
And it's truly one of thosethings where you're where it's
like, I wrote in the notes assomebody sent materials in, I
said to the director, I waslike, this actor makes my
writing better than it is.
Like I need them.
You know, it's just it's so andto share that's what's amazing
about theater is that like you,you as a writer, let's say, are
(45:26):
so excited about the projectfrom your point of view, from
your artistry, whatever you'rebringing.
But then the sound designer,like for our set designer right
now, we're taking meetings with,he is like so excited about the
show because of what he isbringing to the table.
And then he's doing all thisstuff I could never even dream
of.
I mean, truly, he's I'm likegetting these vector work
sheets, and I'm like, what theheck is that?
(45:47):
But it's like so cool to seepeople at the top of their
artistry and the top of theirpassion, the depths of their
passion, bring it to the table,and that's going to be true of
these three performers.
That's like so exhilarating, andto get to give that job to to
three actors is phenomenal.
And hopefully one day I'll getto employ, you know, a thousand
people on my Game of Thrones orwhatever.
Yeah, hell yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
So it must be so gratifying to like be able to
witness the full scope of likethe chain of inspiration.
Yeah.
Because like you've you'reyou're inspired by something,
you wrote something, now you'vegiven that thing to someone
else, and now they've beeninspired to create via you know,
whatever department they'reworking through.
SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
It sounds cheesy, but every time I get even the
slightest affirmation about theshow, like somebody writing in
an email briefly, like, justread the play, loved it, and
then they move on to somethingelse.
I'm like, my little heart singsbecause I again I'm at this
stage, maybe it'll be differentif one day I'm I'm making big
(46:45):
commissions for people who arehired to do this work.
But right now I'm in a stageright, I got to um I am at a
stage where, and I say thisoften on my dark days, it's like
I'm writing plays nobody askedfor, that nobody's paying me
for, and nobody said theyneeded.
And nonetheless, I perhapsdelusionally thought this
(47:09):
deserves to exist.
I'm interested in this.
I think this is awesome.
And then when you take that babyout into the world, and then
other people are like, what acute baby! Like this baby, this
baby is adorable and is gonnamake an amazing grown-up, and I
can't wait to see what they do.
Like, I'm like, you think mychild like has a place in this
(47:30):
world?
You are excited this childexists.
And let's be clear, noteverything I've ever done,
everybody says that about, andthat as they shouldn't, you
know, but you know, that's mybut for something like this that
is making it this far into theworld, it's really it's just so
cool that like now I can sendthe full script of a play that
again nobody asked for to agentsand managers and casting
(47:51):
directors and designers andartistic directors and whoever
requests it.
Yeah.
And then we get feedback fromeveryone who reads it who's
like, this is so awesome, we'regonna program it.
Or this is so awesome, I wannabe in it.
This is so and you're just like,wow, you know, maybe the things
I like and I'm into other peopleare too.
SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02 (48:13):
Bad audition story.
Just recently.
I have a m so many to choosefrom.
I got it.
Recently.
I got recently.
This is this is in the lastyear.
This was like in the summer, Ithink.
Here we go.
I got a tape to be in a horrorfilm.
Oh wow, horror story, horrorhorror story.
I had no real It was in afranchise, it was in the 28 Days
(48:35):
Later franchise.
Oh shit.
Mm-hmm.
Pretty cool.
They sent me clips of what thelike post-possession body should
look like, kind of like how whatthe movement style is.
They sent me a clip on YouTubeof like um like how you're
supposed to move parasite likeeating a cockroach and the bug
(48:56):
was like being all jerky andstuff like that.
Exactly.
So they were like, once you'reinfected, this is how you
behave.
So one scene was likepre-infection and one scene was
post-infection.
And so I had to really, and theywere like, go for it and have
fun.
So I did my standard scene, andthen I got to my infection
(49:17):
scene, and I really wanted toshow them like because I'm maybe
not the most I don't necessarilyread horror.
I don't know that sure.
I don't know what that reallymeans.
I don't know what that means,like but I haven't been hired
for that work before, so Ireally wanted to show my range.
Sure.
So I really threw my whole bodyinto it, and in fact, what I did
was give myself whiplash.
Oh no.
I like was like distorting mybody in this way, and then I
(49:40):
like swung around so fast tolike snap into the and it was my
first take of the scene.
I just like really did not, Iguess, plan ahead, and I felt my
neck snap, and then I finishedthe scene and pressed stop, and
I was like, they're gonna getone take of this because I can't
(50:03):
do that again.
And then for about four months,I had like pretty noticeable to
severe like neck and back painfrom just pretending to be a
zombified human for this horrorfilm, which obviously I did not
get called back for or hurtanything from.
(50:25):
So this is the sort of silentwork that's happening every day.
So it was something you did toyourself.
I totally did to myself.
That's the thing.
I know that's what's like sohumiliating about that story is
like nobody, nobody actuallyasked for that.
And I just I decided to hold it.
I didn't ask for you to hurtyourself.
I was like, oh, you want horror?
I'll break my neck on camera foryou.
What do you think next?
It was horrifying.
(50:46):
And then they were like, Well,we're gonna go in another
direction.
And I'm like, I'm like your neckdid.
Yeah, exactly.
Thank you.
And I'm like, I'm so glad I didthat.
I'm I'm yeah.
So this is the beautiful life,the glamorous life.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
And that's why cool that you got to to audition for
that movie.
SPEAKER_02 (51:05):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
Well, it is cool.
This is why it's also good to bea player.
SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Killian Murphy's coming back for it, I believe.
SPEAKER_02 (51:11):
Yeah, I think you know, I didn't keep up with it.
I didn't keep up with it after Ididn't uh after I couldn't see
string when I snapped my neck.
You're like, it's not happening.
I genuinely was like, God forbidthey actually call me in for
this because if they want me toreplicate what just happened,
they will not be doing thatagain.
Incredible what you did.
Doing could you do that for 10takes on something?
SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
No, no, I got one in me.
And we're gonna need medic onstandby.
And if I don't get it on thefirst take, well, you'll have to
wait four months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'm I think I'm okaynow, though.
I love it.
Brennan, this was so wonderfultalking to you.
Um, what are you working on?
I know you said you're producingsomething right now.
Any anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
Okay, so the only thing I have to promote is my
show, The Vessel.
The Vessel coming to 5090 59theaters this summer, July 30th
to August 23rd, unless we getextended, which would be rad.
Fantastic.
Uh, I will be playwriting butnot acting.
So if you want to come, I may behiding in the shadows watching
(52:12):
the show with you.
Um, or yeah, that's that'spretty much it.
And then Lord knows what elsewill come my way.
So you can follow me at CuriousBe George.
SPEAKER_00 (52:21):
There you go.
That's on Instagram?
SPEAKER_02 (52:23):
Yeah, Instagram.
Technically and TikTok.
Technically, TikTok too.
Although I'm very unreliable onthere.
I do sometimes I go on littlesprints where I um post and
yeah, I get a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00 (52:34):
I mean, I saw recently it looks like you've
been getting a lot of viewershipon your on your stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (52:38):
Yeah, uh it's true actually, but I feel uh quite
embarrassed by that actually.
Really?
Yeah.
But then I like I keeposcillating between like I've
gotta be shameless and just likedo my thing, gotta get my get my
name.
I like your show out there.
You get hot takes good takes.
I guess I'm just a yapper if youcan tell at the end of this
(52:58):
two-hour interview.
But yeah, I I guess that's mycalling is to yap.
SPEAKER_00 (53:03):
Hey, we all we all got something to yap about.
That's what this is for.
It's a podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (53:07):
Thanks.
Thanks for bravely putting a micin front of my face.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (53:10):
Thanks for bravely taking it.
SPEAKER_02 (53:11):
Yeah, it was a it was a real treat.
Thanks for hanging.
SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
All right, y'all.
That's this week's episode ofWorking Class Acts.
We'll see you next week.
I want to play that.
You want to do that?
I have no idea what it is.
No, it's great.
It's just a little improv game.
We go through A, A through Z.
SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
A through Z.
Yeah.
And improvise scene.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Create a a little story.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Okay, great.
I'm ready.
Um, all right.
Can I start?
Yeah, you can start.
Go for it.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
I'm in the mode of yes and.
Here we go.
Yeah, great.
You're like, sure, whatever.
That doesn't matter.
I'm like, no, but right off thebat, no, yeah.
Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Are you coming to dinner tonight?
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Brad, I've been thinking about coming to dinner,
but I I I don't know.
I don't think it's a very goodidea.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
Can you just make up your mind?
SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Don't be that way.
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
Don't do that.
Even if you're scared, it'sgonna be a lot of fun.
I think you should come.
SPEAKER_00 (00:45):
Fun.
Fun.
Seriously?
Based on the last game to one ofyour display.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah?
Or uh oh well.
Um guess what?
Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I I don't know if uh me coming to this dinner party
is a good idea because last timeit was it was kind of hellish
for me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Just go in there, ask for a raise, and get out.
SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
Kevin isn't a good boss though.
I can't just go to the di thisdinner and ask him for a little
raise.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
Kevin may be a mess, but he is a rational guy, and
you work very hard and youdeserve this raise.
Maybe.
No.
No, maybe.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
I'll go.
I'll go.
Will you be by my side?
Preferably not, but if you needme, I will go.
That is preposterous.
You're telling me are you justtrying to get me to go in your
place or something?
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
Really, what I need is for you to get a promotion so
that I can quit.
I'd like to quit.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
So this is sort of about you.
But so you're quitting.
So will I be taking your job?
Is that the promotion?
Totally.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Uh uh.
Uh very soon I am going to gopublic with an announcement that
will be taking me away from thecompany.
Wait, where are you going?
Xerox.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Zoinks, it's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
And that is the alphabet wave.
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
My first time.
I think it was perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
No, that was good.
That was actually quite good.
That was coherent.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
That was a coherent story.
Yeah, yeah.
I did famously uh famously.
Famously.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
So everyone knows that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
I did collegiate level improv with the group
known as Improvidence.
Really?
In Providence, Rhode Island.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Oh, that's the perfect improv name, I imagine.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
I know, I know.
Yeah.
If you can judge an improv groupby its title, we were tier one.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Grade A.
Grade A.
SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
Improv.
It really was.
You could fill a 300-personstadium of improv attendees much
easier than a football game atBrown University.
I love that.
I love that.
Welcome to Working Class Acts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Working Class
Acts Podcast.
I'm your host, John Matalone.
I am joined today by a very,very talented and creative
individual.
He him is a writer and actorbased in New York City, whose
(04:05):
work focuses on existentialcrises.
But in a fun way.
His solo show, A Eulogy forRoman, which I saw was great,
received a drama desknomination.
That's right, for uniquetheatrical experience.
That was at 59 East 59th and atthe Edinburgh Fringe Festival.
Other full-length plays includeThe Vessel, inspired by the
(04:26):
Hudson Yard structure of thesame name, 59th East 59th,
that's where it was.
The Dog Park at Studio Tisch,and Realize Reality Island.
Performance works includeRichard II at Red Bull Theater.
Ooh, we can talk about that.
Premieres of Bleach at theWilson Lounge, and the Crisis
Actor at Laurie BeachmanTheater.
(04:47):
Laurie Beachman Theater?
Yeah.
That's the Laurie BeachmanTheater.
And new works development withA4.
Vibe is spelled Vibe TheaterExperience.
It's spelled interestingly.
You can just cut the wholething.
Oh no, no, no.
Trust me.
I do all of it.
This is all staying in.
I don't believe it.
Fringe NYC, the flea, TeatroLattea, and Williamstown Theater
(05:09):
Festival.
Oh, you were a Williamstowner aswell.
Oh, wait, we were talking aboutthat.
TV and film includes the Wraithof Othello, Tribeca, Youthful
Pleasures.
That's upcoming.
And Gunhild Borkman.
Gunhild Borkman upcoming.
He got a BA at Brown University.
He got his MFA at NYU TishGraduate Acting.
And he has a website.
(05:30):
It's www.brendon.
SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
I don't think there's going to be any
listeners anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
They've all tuned out.
I presume this is your uhInstagram at CuriousBeorge.
That's good.
You know, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
It's Brendan George.
It's me.
Brendan George.
Yeah, Curious B.
George was, I thought, inseventh grade a real stroke of
genius.
That it I still think it's aserver.
It's incredible that at theyoung age of 29, that's right,
holding on to my 20s with thelife.
Uh I still stand by it,actually.
It's good.
It's one of few things in mylife that I stand by from that
(06:03):
time.
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
That you hold on to still.
I love it.
Brendan, how are you doing?
It's good to see you.
I haven't seen you in a littlebit.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Great to see you.
I'm feeling good.
I'm the sun is shining.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
It's really beautiful out today.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
I so I'm I'm feeling good.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
How about you?
I'm I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
Yeah.
I mean, except for this anxiety,I'm waiting for this, like I was
telling you before this, andjust waiting to hear back about
a job that I really want.
SPEAKER_02 (06:26):
And uh we'll see if it happens.
I have to tell you, I'm in theprocess of casting on the other
side of the table now, andholding holding actors in my
right.
Holding, unfortunately, not onthis one, but you never know.
It got too much.
And I I yeah.
Well, now the whole point of mebeing here.
(06:47):
Um no, I I holding the soul ofanother actor in my hands is is
way too much power.
I just think.
Are you feeling like the weightof that?
Absolutely.
Being on the other side of that?
Absolutely.
Because I mean, sometimes I I'llbe honest, we so I'll jump right
in to say that we have there'sthis show.
It came up in my bio that I'msure everyone was skipping
(07:10):
through.
Is it a eulogy for Roman?
No, actually.
The vessel is going to be a 5090at 59.
So it's it that is announced asof April 14th, which is why I'm
in the house.
Which is after which is afterthe airing of this episode is
after that.
We won't say when this wasrecorded.
Exactly right.
Um, and we've received over3,000 submissions for three
(07:32):
roles.
And it is a very I I I startedas an actor.
I'm still am an actor, and it isa very humbling experience to
the actor part of my careerbecause there there are a lot of
people who I think are not theright fit, and so very quickly
you can just sort of through.
But there are also a lot ofpeople who are the right fit,
(07:54):
and a lot of people who now havetaped, some have even taped a
second time, and who are reallyphenomenal actors.
And I don't like indicate it'slike I want to write a novel to
each actor who we let go at thisstage in the process to tell
them like how valuable they are,how skilled they are, how much I
(08:15):
want to work with them, howgreat they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (08:17):
We were doing 50 productions, you'd all be hired
for one of those productions.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
But it's yeah, and it's all the cliches that I've
been told, but now I have newunderstanding for about the
things that are not in yourcontrol as an actor.
Like I've loved seeing people'sdifferent take on the material,
some of which is like soexciting, truly in ways that I
never would have expected.
But then there are threecharacters that are on stage
most of the show, and we have tomake sure that the bold choice
(08:44):
from this actor goes with thebold choice from that actor, and
there's just no controlling whatthe other people are bringing to
the table.
So the chemistry of it all.
Um yeah, so I'm I'm feeling veryand and uh on the weeks that I
haven't been getting as manyauditions, I am more patient now
because I'm like, well,considering there's only a
hundred thousand other peopletrying to just get the audition.
(09:08):
Yeah, exactly.
Getting the audition is actuallymore of a win than I than I
probably was.
See, those are statistics Inever wanted to know.
I'm so sorry.
And this is a non-union job,too.
God damn.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
Well, I wonder if it's but maybe there's more for
it.
Yeah, I wonder if it's less ifit's a union because there's
more than everyone's part of theunion.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
No, it's true actually, because this is a uh
it is being paid commiseratewith union wages.
Oh, that's great.
Which is great, but it istechnically a non-union short
only submission, so I do thinkthat it's a it's a role that the
the the parts are in demand in away that you know if it if we
were going to a union pool,maybe it would be a different
(09:50):
different conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (09:52):
And are you in this show as well?
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
Not in this one.
I'm brave writing, brave readinginto buttons.
SPEAKER_00 (09:58):
Probably, you know, I I'm I've recently over the
past couple of years startedwriting stuff and submitting
them.
And like, should I be in it aswell?
Because we were also talkingabout free play before this.
For those who don't know, NYUhas a a uh self-produced
capstone project in your thirdyear.
You can produce any show youwant.
(10:18):
And I was producing the wholefestival, right?
Which Alex D.
Oh, did you do that?
Was it hell for you as well?
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Or did you find you took to it a little easier?
Loved it, but it was challengingfor you.
No, no, it was challenging.
I basically um took up shop inEugenia's office.
I had an honorary like office todo the work and that made me
winter show, like in the season.
(10:45):
So instead of practicing for ashow, I was producing the
festival.
Which was scene for me.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
See, that's where I fucked up because I was like
doing all of the producingstuff, and I was doing a
one-person show that I was alsolike in the moment writing as
well.
So it was just it was hell.
Um, but I I'm just trying toovercome that sort of uh I think
I sort of traumatized myself alittle bit with doing that all
at once.
And I'm like, maybe it's notthat bad, but also there's a
(11:16):
reason these are all separatejobs, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
You're so right.
I recently directed my firstshort film.
Oh, yeah.
And not only did I cast myself,I triple cast myself.
Oh my god.
I Lindsay Lohan myself timesthree.
Is this a parent trap?
It was it was like a VictorianIbsen inspired parent trap a
little bit.
Stop it.
I'm kidding.
When does this come out?
(11:38):
That's the short film calledGunhild Borkman.
Again, for those closelylistening to my bio, which was
just so thrilling.
Um basically I'll let you knowthat that wasn't the longest one
I've had.
There are some that have beenvery long.
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
There were those things that when you read it
like in a playbill at a show,you're just like, oh, this is
fine.
But then when you read it outloud, you're like, oh yeah.
But that should be nice becauseyou've done a lot.
You should be very proud of it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Thank you, thank you.
It's cool, yeah.
It's cool to have anything totalk about, I think.
To fill a podcast episode withBut yes, so basically, as if
self-short films weren'tindulgent enough.
I cast myself three times in atrue act of narcissism.
But it's short.
It's short.
That's right.
And it's nine minutes of yeah,I'm playing Twin Sisters,
actually.
Oh, very Wait, this sounds bad.
(12:25):
Inspired by, by the way, RichardFellman's acting class, which we
both took year one.
Yes, Richard Fellman.
And he had assigned to adifferent group.
I wasn't not a part of thisbecause it is traditionally cast
female.
Uh-huh.
Um, these these uh classmates ofmine got to do a scene from John
Gabriel Borkman, the HenrikIbsen play, which is very
obscure and is not produced, Ithink, for a reason.
(12:47):
If you read the whole four acts,but I thought there was
something very eerie and spookyabout it, and then I was like,
wouldn't it be so funny if thesame actor was the twin sisters
in this dilapidated, vacant uhNorwegian Victorian home?
And then I was like, what if Iwas that actress?
I see that.
Yeah, then I cast myself as themand John Gabriel Boardman for a
(13:08):
little sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Oh my god, wait, I love it.
Wait, so you're all the parts inthis thing?
Oh my god.
Yeah.
Wait, did you do this byyourself?
No, I was gonna say I like it.
So I am that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
I yes, well, it's sort of echoing the the point
you were making, which isthere's a reason those jobs are
probably and everybody I'vetalked to in post, which are not
myself, I do have a whole teamof people who've been working on
it, which is so great.
Um, I'm talking to people inpost and they're like learning
first what the and they're like,How did that go?
You know, directing her forshort, and you were huh, okay.
(13:40):
And then I was like, Yeah, well,you know, I had a very great AD
and I was like, Oh, I was gonnasay, did you have an assistant
director?
Basically, my assistant directorkind of was in many ways the
director on set he was my eyesand ears outside of it, but they
would like bring me over themonitor while I was in costume
and in frame, and then I it wasit was pretty deranged.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Yeah, I I'm sure it's it's like when you
self-tape, like when you have toyou're like checking your own
takes.
It's like it's a weird thing tolike view yourself in the world.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yes, and I couldn't, and actually just for
efficiency, because we shot intwo days, like I didn't have
time to watch all the dailies orlike watch all the covers.
So I really did surround myselfwith with really friends as well
as like really trusted greatcollaborators who they could
watch everything and be my eyesand ears, and I trust if they
thought it looked good, I didnot need to question that.
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Keep moving.
And I actually so far it'slooking good.
(14:27):
That's great.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Well, I'm excited to see it when whenever it comes
out.
SPEAKER_02 (14:30):
Sure, you got it.
Brandon, where are you from?
I'm from uh a town whose sloganis the city that works.
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
The city that works.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
You that's right, baby W E R K S.
Um and that's right.
Did you want to guess what city?
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Wait, cause it's city that works.
Because I'd actually, I don'tknow that I know.
Did you mention where you werefrom before?
I don't think so.
I don't think you know.
I want to say, for some reason,is it on the Eastern Seaboard?
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
It is.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
Are you a Bostonite?
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
No, but I love that.
Near?
Yeah, I'm I'm a I'm anortheastern man.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Is it Massachusetts?
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
It's not Massachusetts.
But Connecticut.
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah, I can tell you by my.
I can tell it.
It's weird.
I don't know what it is.
Yeah.
Because I'm from upstate NewYork, I maybe I can identify it
a little bit more.
Uh so Connecticut, are you?
SPEAKER_02 (15:23):
Connecticut, Stanford by Stanford.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
There you go.
Stanford, Connecticut.
I would never have to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Yes, which actually is funny because I did grow up
knowing that slogan.
Nobody really knows that.
Even people in Stanford don'tnecessarily know that slogan,
but it is true.
And they're not working.
And then when I went to school,for college, Providence, their
slogan is a city that works.
And I was like, what?
And so there's a little bit whatI what I privately have enjoyed
(15:50):
about that is that Stanford isthe city that works, and
Providence is a city among many.
It's like, look, we're notnumber one, but we work.
Yeah, and I any city could say.
I know.
And so now I wonder how manyother cities out there are
claiming there's cities thatwork.
But another city that's works.
These are the cities I go to.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
These are the cities that work.
SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
That's right.
Me too.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Did you like growing up in Stanford?
SPEAKER_02 (16:13):
I loved it.
I really did.
Yeah.
It's a very it's not far.
An easy 60-minute ride off theMetro North.
Um yeah, we it's it's more, it'sa lot more diverse than its
neighboring towns.
I mean, it's a proper city.
There's 120,000 people who livethere.
I went to public schooldowntown.
So I think, you know, you onlyknow what you know when you know
(16:35):
it.
But um that's poetry.
God, hold hold on to that.
But but growing up in a similarway, I mean, even s not only did
I enjoy it, but I think I wasacutely aware at the time, I was
like, there's a lot more goingon here.
There's a lot of different typesof people than it would be if I
was growing up in a more ruralor homogenous community.
Like, say where I grew up.
I don't know, not to name names.
(16:56):
Entirely white.
But um, yeah, I was very, verygrateful for that.
And had a great time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:02):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Loved it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Did you uh where'd you get the the bug?
The proverbial bug.
SPEAKER_02 (17:07):
Yes, the proverbial bug, which I do like you haven't
changed your life.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
I there's a lot of things that I repeat and say
exactly the same way, and I'm Iyou're holding to bug.
I yeah, I'm holding to bug, andalso, but a part of me is also
like, am I unoriginal?
Should I say something?
SPEAKER_02 (17:22):
Oh, I mean I've heard about I know what you're
talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I've said so many things the same way.
But you know, that's that's myconsistency as an actor, folks.
That's what that is.
SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
Hire John Mattaloni.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
That's what I'm all this is for.
SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
I would say that I got the bug growing up next to a
community theater.
Ah.
Which was funny because I havetwo older siblings and two
parents, none of whom wereinvolved in this community
theater that was next door.
But um, it true it was likewalking.
It I grew up near a like publicgolf course complex that had
(17:58):
like a tennis court.
So I basically all the things Iended up doing were just next
door.
I like played tennis becausethere were tennis right there.
Yeah, yeah, did theater becausetennis was right there, or
theater was right there.
But um the real actually storygoes, which my mother would hold
me to is that apparently I wasflipping through catalogs like
LL Bean catalogs as a child thatwe received in the mail.
(18:19):
And yes, and I basically waslike, how come these kids get to
be in the magazine?
And she uh basically was like,Well, they're cute, like they're
cute kids.
Which like not what was shesaying about you?
Well, and then I basic I guessum, in a rare act of confidence,
was like, I'm cute.
And then I kid you not, Istarted to go into New York and
(18:42):
do like print advertising as achild.
Yeah.
But I was I mean, I was like sixor seven.
But that is very confident.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
I did not have that form of confidence.
SPEAKER_02 (18:51):
Yeah, I don't know what happened to the early it
was started hot print work.
I'm on yeah, I'm I'm reboundingnow, but um I yeah, that was my
peak.
I was six from boom burning.
It's been all downhill fromthere.
And then basically it was tootime consuming, and so they were
like, Okay, there is a theaterright next door.
Why don't you if you have suchaddiction to attention, why
(19:14):
don't you just go next door?
And then actually, uh, well, myfirst show was I was a munchkin
in The Wizard of Oz.
Oh, of course.
As at the end of the year, as achild, of course.
And then I I stuck around at andthis theater, shout out, Curtain
Call Theater, Curtain CallTheater Theater in Stanford,
Connecticut.
They are amazing.
They're a really, I would argue,like the most professional
(19:38):
community theater that I've everexperienced or seen.
And one thing that's also reallygreat is they have a lot of
programming for younger artists,aspiring artists, et cetera.
So um basically every summer wehad like a youth show, for
instance.
But not only do they do theyouth show, they have a youth
board of directors, if you will,where you from starting from
(19:59):
like the age of 13, you canapply to be on the board.
And if you're selected, you workyear-round to basically produce
the youth show in the summer.
Wow, that is a really greatidea.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
It's into the mindset of like what it means to
actually put on a fullproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Yes, like they ch we select we would pitch the shows,
we would get a short list ofshows from our own submissions.
We would pitch the shows, we'dselect the shows, and then we'd
select we would hire at 15 yearsold, we'd hire the adult
director that was gonna be youknow do doing the show that
year.
And I mean it wasn't without itsdrama for sure.
I've got good stories.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
But um I love back then it's just some drama now
with the show that you'recurrently doing.
You're like, I need to write anovel to all the shows.
No, truly don't.
Oh, I've yeah, I was notsympathetic.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
I was like, ooh, we have power, let's wield it.
Um whereas yeah, now I'm justsad about all the broken dreams.
But uh no, it was it wasincredible.
And actually, it's funny to lookback on the path because I am I
I love producing and definitelyin addition to being on stage
(21:02):
and acting, it was like my firstforay into like producing and
understanding what goes intocreating theater and these
projects.
And um yeah, I still get a lotof reward out of that.
I still really enjoy it.
So that was that was where thebug hit.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Two bugs.
Do you remember what your firstshow was?
Was it through that?
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
Yeah, I guess it was was Wizard of Oz.
Yeah, it was.
Oh, Wizard of Oz.
Probably Munchkin and the Wizardof Oz.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Um was there a uh uh any production that felt
formative to you, like that likereally like, oh, I'm really
stepping into my own here.
I want to pursue this more.
SPEAKER_02 (21:35):
I do have a couple.
I I will say, when I got cast asWinthrop in The Music Man, in
the adult production, and I wasa named part with my own scene.
That's right.
And and I had some realcharacter work, you know.
He has a speech impediment, so Ihad to really get into the
circumstances of that.
Sure.
Um I yeah, I think I was reallyexcited to have No.
(22:00):
There's no small parts.
Of course.
But I think in the ensemble Iwas really inventing the part.
You know, I was munchkin numbersix and I was creating the
narrative where it was like achance to, in a very early way,
like take on a differentcharacter, circumstance,
identity, et cetera.
And it was super fun.
And I love, yeah, I just I justhad a real ball with it.
So that was one.
(22:21):
And then I would say when I wasin high school, I was really
debating like, do I want topursue this professionally?
My dad is an account was anaccountant.
He ended up an accountant.
Really?
Yeah, amazing.
Well, so then maybe you canrelate to this.
I don't know.
But he's a very rational,practical man.
Sure.
Who's like, it doesn't matter ifyou're talented.
Okay, all right, all right.
He basically was like,statistically, this ain't
(22:43):
happening for you.
So I don't care how talented youthink you are, it's not gonna
happen.
So low percent doesn't mean nopercent.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
I'll let you talk to Andy George.
That's good.
Low percent don't mean nopercent.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
I was very stuck, I guess, in high school, sure,
knowing whether or not this wasa viable path, even though I
knew I really enjoyed it.
And I remember doing aproduction of Pippin, which
remains my favorite musical.
I've done it twice, I guess.
Um, and I was Pippin and Pippin,and he's doing his soul
searching, and I was a junior inhigh school, and the Diane
Paulis version was on Broadway.
(23:57):
Yeah, and I maintain that's likethe best theatrical experience
I've ever been to, and I wasjust like so inspired and
feeling all the feelings, and Iremember that show definitely
was formative too.
That's where I was like, okay,I've got to pursue this somehow.
Um, even though I still didn'tmajor in it in college, my like
five-year plan was I'm gonnareturn to this and give it a
shot.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
You want to hear something crazy?
Please.
I've never seen Pippin, readPippin.
I only know Corner of the Sky.
It's all in a beautiful song.
I've heard of it.
This is what I will tell youthey were doing all the time
when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
I think Pippin should be in the pantheon of
must-know musicals alongside,you know.
I think it is.
It's ish.
Ish for theater people it is.
Yeah.
But when I talk to friends whoare not in the biz, they they're
like, you know, they know Rent,they know Wicked, they know
Hamilton.
Sure.
And I know it's not in thatlevel of popular culture,
(24:54):
probably because we don't havelike the movie.
We haven't had our generation'sversion of it in the Diane
Paulis.
Was we need a movie version ofthe movie.
We need a movie version.
No, I'm sure actually.
And trust me, my friend, my goodfriend Peter Charney would kill
me if I talk about it too muchbecause he's trying to get those
right.
Really, is it?
Um, but but I I think it is sowhat's incredible, whatever, I
(25:16):
could go talk about it for now.
It's just so much other than Imean, the corner of the sky is
beautiful, of course, yeah, butthe show is much deeper than its
superficial appeal.
The music is very catchy andjust it's a kind of fun travel,
but it's really existential.
It's quite existential and quitedark actually by the end of it.
And I love if I there's certainpieces I know I love them.
(25:39):
If I'm like, if I could make onething in my life, I would die
happy if it was just that onething.
And it's like Pippin, themusical, or Harold and Maud, the
movie.
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Oh my god! I just saw Harold and Maud for the
first time just a few monthsago.
And it it uh one of the bestmovies I've ever I've ever seen.
It's my favorite movie.
It is so unique.
Oh, and rest in peace.
Um Bud Court just died, I know.
Oh my god.
I know brilliant.
Both of them are just brilliantin it.
I know.
(26:07):
Well, everyone, just do yourselfa favor and watch Herald and
Maud.
It is one of the most incrediblefilms.
The beginning, that that longopener, the most unexpected
thing I've ever experienced.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Well, watching steal from my my own bio, so
wonderfully written by me.
I I would like to say it's hardto find a through line sometimes
of the things that I'm drawn to,but I do think I'm drawn to
existential crises, but in a funway.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
No, but that I think that's like that movie is like
Chef's kiss of it all.
Yeah.
Um, what I was gonna mentionearlier, uh have you watched um
What Hot American Sonora?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, did you see the John Earlydoing Pippin?
Uh so they did like the firstday of camp.
Yes, yes, um, and watch it, butit is.
(26:53):
One of the funniest things I'veever seen is John Early comes
in.
He's like part of the theatercommunity or whatever.
Yeah, and uh Amy Polar and oh Ican't remember the other actor's
name.
It's not Bradley Cooper uh atthis point, but there's likely
in black, maybe, or no, it'slike it's a it's someone who
wasn't part of the original whocomes in.
He was on Mad Men, the one withwhite hair.
Oh very handsome dude.
(27:14):
Yes, the one who looked uh JohnSlater.
Yes, he looks like AndersonCooper.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's him and her, and they'relike they're trying to cast for
this musical that they're doing,and John Early comes in and does
a rendition, a corner of thesky, that is unforgettable.
It is just pandering beyondpandering.
It's so funny.
(27:34):
He's like doing it in a pop,like get him at Macon.
He's like adding riffs, he'sdoing like body rolls.
The John Early way, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
So good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
He's a brilliant um okay.
So you were in Stanford.
When did you make the move toNew York City?
Did you pursue acting right atyou went to Brown, yes?
SPEAKER_02 (27:54):
Yes.
I went to Brown.
I majored in environmentalscience.
Oh.
But I did all my littleperformative extracurriculars.
So I did improv, I did acabella,I did theater, and then I came
to New York July 8th, 2018, ifanybody's wondering.
I was yes, um, so fresh out ofundergrad.
And um, here's a very small butfunny story.
(28:17):
The first job I auditioned forin New York as an actor was like
10 days after I had moved in.
I had created a backstage.comaccount.
I was just seeing what's outthere.
As we all do.
And I was going through and Isubmitted to something, and they
got back to me and I got theaudition.
And so I went to um I went toBrooklyn, which at the time I
was living in Queens, but Ieverything was new.
(28:38):
So I was just like, what's goingon?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I get off at the BergenStreet F-stop, and I walk into
this person's home and I do thelittle audition and I booked it.
My first audition in New York.
It was for a one-act play, and Ibooked the job, and I was like,
Oh my gosh.
This is easy.
I was like, everyone made itsound like this was gonna be so
(29:00):
impossible.
A one-for-one, baby.
I have got this.
This city is uh wrapped aroundmy finger, and uh needless to
say, hundreds of rejectionslater.
I don't have the same hit rate,but it was a yeah, and it was a
very um in this small,gratifying way.
It was it was really I mean, itwas for I think like fifty
(29:21):
dollars or a hundred dollars,but it was like to even get the
audition and to be told likethat's a paid, like you can come
in and do this.
I was like, okay, cool.
I so I yeah, right away juststarted acting as much as I
could and uh working as a tutor,which I still do as a microbial
case.
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
So yeah, you know, that's funny.
When I first moved into Brooklynto like the first thing that I
technically auditioned for inNew York City, I also booked.
And I had a set I was like, oh,this is great.
Like what, like it's hard.
Yeah, it's so fun.
It was like for a uh a sci-fi uhpodcast or a sci-fi pod.
It was called Damicles Clash.
And it was like, it was so fun.
(29:58):
It's still to this day one of myfavorite things I've done.
But yeah, needless to say, therejections did follow.
So when did you decide like youwanted to get higher education
to go to NYU and pursue it?
Because that must be a kind of ascary sort of choice to be like
majoring in this one thing andthen totally switching.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
Well, I sort of I my again, maybe my accountant
father was was haunting me whenI was decision making.
Basically, I knew undergrad Iwanted to get a non-theater
focused degree.
And I did love environmentalscience, was very involved in
that.
And my, you know, in anotherlife, I would be an
environmental lawyer and I'd behaving a great time or at least
a bigger salary.
But I uh knew that whole timethat if this was something I
(30:42):
wanted to really commit to, Icould get a theater education at
the master's level later, or atleast try to get that later.
So it had been two years.
I had really enjoyed working inNew York, and I had booked some
jobs that I was really excitedabout, but truthfully, I fell in
over my head.
Like I booked a solo show.
This was not my own solo show,but um the first solo show I did
(31:03):
was uh the US premiere of a UKshow that was being done in New
York, immersive andsite-specific, in a basement in
Bushwell.
Of course, audience of 14 at atime.
I was playing a male escort whowas audience interactive.
So I was like in the underwear,like giving people lap dances
and doing this like solo show.
It was a whole thing.
(31:24):
Oh my god.
The show was called Bleach.
It was a real trip.
And I was it was the mostrewarding artistic experience I
had ever had.
I was like holy, I was, I mean,I was even the fact that I was
like working, you know, sixshows a week or whatever, like
the fact it was like afull-time, I was a full-time
(31:44):
actor with this show was superdemanding.
I was so hype.
But from a skill level, I waslike, I just feel like I am
totally winging it.
Like I had no idea how tosustain myself, to like really
do this craftfully.
And I did have some theater moremore um accomplished, maybe
further along in their career,theater friends who saw it and
(32:06):
sort of I think they knew thattoo.
Like they supported, but theywere sort of like, wow, that's a
lot.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
You know, I was gonna joke that, like, oh, and
then you got your MFA and yourealized everyone's just waiting
in.
I know.
I'm kind of I have thought I'mlike, would it really feel that
different now?
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
There is definitely that too.
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
But you could feel a little bit of maybe pressure
from others or just sense like,oh, there's some greenness from
me.
SPEAKER_02 (32:29):
Yes, even if it was for my own confidence, I didn't
like the feeling of not knowingwhat I was doing.
It's kind of like thedifference.
Again, forgive me because I'm atutor, so this is coming from
the testing world, nobody wantsto hear about that, but it's
like you can get a 96% on a testand be like, wow, I don't know
how that happened, but that'sawesome.
Yeah.
Or you can get a 96% on the testand be like, yeah, I know how I
(32:51):
got that.
Yeah.
I had prepared, yeah, I knew theanswers to these questions.
I felt really confident.
And that's the difference for mebetween getting something right
versus really mastering a skill.
Totally.
And that was the difference wasI felt like there were times
where I was getting it right andI wasn't even aware of how I was
getting it right.
Uh, so I couldn't necessarilyreplicate it or I couldn't, you
(33:13):
know, rely on it.
And I wanted to build thatconfidence.
And so that was kind of whyafter two years, I mean, also
the pandemic happened.
I had a little eat pray lovemoment in Utah where I was
working as well.
I ate um lots of uh Tex-Mexcuisine.
Oh, hell yeah.
I prayed with the Mormons.
Did you really?
I'm not actually in there.
(33:33):
Um I more like was wassingle-handedly, I think,
dissolving the Mormon religionwith my with my sinful ways out
in Utah.
Um and then what did I and Iloved, I loved the snow and
theyself, yeah.
Um but but at that time I was itwas a nice breather because then
(33:55):
I was taking stock as theater,theater's future was a little
unknown, but if it was comingback, I was kind of like, okay,
yeah, I I definitely am I'm allin.
I would want to go to a schoolfor this, I would want to major
and get a degree.
And then that year everythingwas remote because it was the
winter of 20 to 21 and Yalewasn't even, for instance, like
doing an auditioning class.
(34:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So I auditioned, I applied toJewel Arden NYU just to learn
what the process was like,really not expecting I would get
in anywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
I was just like, I'm you you auditioned at a time
when the process was not theprocess.
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (34:30):
I was just like, well, and I was I was able to do
it from Utah.
So I was like, well, I just haveto wake up at 7 a.m.
But then yeah, I'll get on thiscall and do it.
And um when I was offered a spotagainst my own uh expectations,
I was like, well, I'm not gonnaturn it down.
Yeah, so rock on.
So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (34:47):
It took me back here.
Yeah, yeah.
Was that whole audition processand callback process all on
Zoom?
SPEAKER_02 (34:52):
All on Zoom, including on the callback
weekend, we had like breakoutrooms where we did improv
exercises in groups of three,and we were like doing
three-person improv over Zoom.
So the the way they I would saythe circumstances of my
acceptance are uh murky.
Questionable, questionable atbest.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
But I'm uh wow, but hey, you made it.
You did it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
But once you get the job, you can't ask why.
Yeah, you just gotta show up anddo it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Be grateful for it and learn what you can, and
yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
And so did you enjoy your timeat NYU?
Yeah.
Because it was a big, it was avery tumultuous time.
You came in a very weird time.
SPEAKER_02 (35:30):
I would not say it was flawless.
You know, I I was, I guess I Iwent in with a very specific set
of goals, and I feel like Iaccomplished or exceeded my
target on those goals.
So I was very gratified by that.
I think it is very, verychallenging on a like personal
and social level when you are inNew York City and trying to
(35:53):
balance your identity beyond theschool because of course an
intensive programmer like thatwants you to be immersed as much
as possible.
But unlike if you, you know,were doing this in a cabin in
the woods somewhere, you arelike in the heart of culture, of
your friends, of your and it Iguess there's a high pressure to
perform at the level that ispresumed you need to perform at.
(36:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you just I think it'sit's hard if you can
compartmentalize your you'retotally good.
It's just that you know, it'swhat happens on the floor will
leave you when you leave it, andvice versa.
And and for me, who had alreadyhad time between undergrad and
grad, and I had friends in NewYork, your friends are gonna
invite you to their birthdayparties and their picnics and
(36:38):
their hangouts, and then eventhough you're in New York, quote
unquote, you're not available.
You can't do any of it.
Yeah.
So you just have to sort ofreally get a f a thick skin and
coldly tell everyone you areunavailable for three years.
And then when you emerge on theother side, you get to be
everyone's friend again.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
But that is that is exactly it.
I remember that being uhdifficult, that that sort of
transition.
And for myself, actually, inparticular, I I was going
through a breakup at the time,so it was like I didn't even
want to be going out, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (37:14):
But it doesn't God forbid you have any personal
trauma for the floor for theacting classes to mine.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Oh, they mined it, and I allowed them to mine it,
and I allowed myself to mine it,which was good.
Um, I needed it, uh, but it'syeah, it's it takes a toll.
Like it's it's exhausting.
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
NYU to tip school of trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (37:37):
Yeah, there you go.
The of the traumatic arts.
SPEAKER_02 (37:40):
Of the traumatic arts, that's right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:42):
That's what we learned.
Um so when you got out of NYU,did you feel like you uh could
hit the ground running, or didyou feel like you've had some
some time between stuff?
Because I know you produced yourown work and the transition was
very hard.
SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Uh even though I knew it would be hard, it didn't
make it any easier.
Yeah.
Because when you're in school,you have three years of
guaranteed work.
Yep.
You are always working andplaying and challenging and
pushing yourself, and you uh canget as much out of it as you
want.
I mean, you can sort of shutyourself off, but if you're open
(38:17):
to it, you really can.
And that's why, for instance,with the free play festival, I
wanted to produce it.
I I wasn't that wasn't aselfless act.
I I mean that was fun for mebecause it was like this is an
opportunity for me to likereally invest myself and and
have a an experience and and youknow what have you gain a skill
set and work on those things.
(38:38):
So I think something I'm alittle caught up on is that I
think there's an adage told to alot of emerging artists that you
shouldn't wait foropportunities, you have to
create your own opportunities.
Sure.
Right.
But to me, that is like telling,let's say, a doctor who had
(39:00):
graduated from medical school,who is very qualified to be a
surgeon and passes all hisclasses, and everybody says, you
are so talented, you'd be anamazing surgeon.
I think I know where you'regoing.
Oh my God.
We're not hiring surgeons rightnow.
So maybe if you built ahospital, you could be the
(39:21):
premier surgeon in your ownhospital.
That you built.
That you built.
If you could just, you know,pour the concrete, just make it.
Just make a hospital.
Yeah.
You then the good news is whenwhen you're a surgeon also who
builds his own hospital, you candesign the wings and you can
design the floor plan andeverything like that.
They'll sell it to you like thatas an actor.
SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
I I so agree with the sort, like in no other
profession would that ever be,is there anything equatable to
what we tell artists in thatway?
Yeah.
It's like going back to theconversation we just had, these
jobs are separate for a reason.
I'm an actor.
Why am I now being told in orderto succeed, I now have to become
(40:01):
a writer, a producer, adirector, like learn lighting,
do all these extra things.
In any other profession, if youwere to sell a doctor, like, oh
yeah, now you have to go toconstruction school to figure
out how to build a hospital,they would go, What the fuck are
you talking about?
SPEAKER_02 (40:17):
Yeah, you don't ask a pianist to build their own
piano, they play the piano.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
So And sure they might get something out of it if
they knew how to build a piano,and if that's up to them, if you
happen to.
SPEAKER_02 (40:32):
The expectation, create your expectation.
Yes.
So I think that I'm veryconflicted about that notion
because I feel very lucky andfortunate that actually I happen
to like building hospitals,metaphorically speaking.
I do enjoy producing and I havea history of doing that.
I do enjoy writing and I have ahistory of that.
(40:52):
But the expectation that my ownacting career relies on those
skills is even more pressure onthe actor because in addition to
everything we're talking about,it also shifting all the
responsibility from the thingsthat are out of our control,
which are very much out of ourcontrol, and they're putting
that burden of responsibility onyou, the individual, that your
own acting career is yourresponsibility.
(41:15):
And if you are not working, itis actually in some ways your
fault's fault.
Because you're not creating yourown everything.
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
I'm bowing down to you, honestly, because that I I
could not agree more.
I think there's so many bizarrestandards that we push onto
actors.
And I've I've said I even saidthis like when we first went
into lockdown, and self-tapingstarted becoming a thing.
And I do think there are a lotof benefits to self-taping.
I think the number one being youcan do it anywhere at any time.
(41:44):
That is genuinely a boon to theactor.
I don't think it's a boon to theactor that I mean, even what
we're looking at, what you can'tsee on screen right now is the
lighting.
There are these cameras I had toset up, I had to set up the
focus and the shots.
I know I'm like these tripodsalone are a couple hundred
dollars on tripods.
This audio equipment that I'musing.
Uh like this, these areexpenses.
(42:06):
These are this is extra laborthat I have to do.
Like, if I were hired hired tobe uh an interviewer, I would
not be expected like by someother company.
I would not be expected to comein and do all of this, but I do.
And it's the it's this is whatis at yeah, it is kind of
thankless.
No, it is.
It really is true.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
I mean it's yeah, we get so intimately familiar with
that exploitation.
Sorry, sorry to drop the E wordthat we don't bat an eye about
it, and you know, it's easy topoint out a problem, it's not
easy to always present asolution.
But I I think going back to thequestion of transitioning from
(42:47):
school to to post-school, Ithink that that has been the
through line of the last twoyears.
It's only been two years, ithasn't been much time, but I'm
very proud of what I've done.
Yeah, I've I've had a lot ofopportunity, but a lot of the
opp almost entirely thoseopportunities I have created for
myself.
And so I'm so I'm grateful to beworking and have having these
(43:10):
experiences.
Like very shortly after, I Ithink the week after I
graduated, I happened to havetwo friends approach me with
this idea for uh extending ashort film into a feature film.
We had already shot the short,but they wanted to go for the
feature, and they said, We wouldlove to have you back for the
feature, which I was thrilledabout as an actor.
And they said, Well, we also areputting together the producing
(43:31):
team.
Would you want to be a leadproducer on it?
And I was like, That's reallyflattering.
I want to be clear with you,I've never worked on a feature
film, let alone produced one.
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
They said, But I was a producer at 13 years old.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, but at 13 years old with the summer year
theater board.
Um, and they they were like,That's fine, like we're all
gonna learn together, let's doit.
And so, for instance, reallythat was that was like my
postgrad year of film education,was I was working nearly what
felt like a full-time jobproducing this feature film,
then getting to be on set, thenseeing it through to post.
(44:00):
So, for instance, like now Ihave a feature film credit as a
lead actor, which is awesome,but it's not because I
auditioned my way into that, itwas like we built that hospital,
and then I hired, or I wasgetting hired by the fellow
board of directors of thehospital.
You know what I mean?
It's like it's a different wayin, and and I again am grateful
for those opportunities.
I l I had an amazing time.
(44:21):
It's just I think there's thatpart of me that knows that's the
reality I'm working with, and Isometimes wish it weren't, but
it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
No, I feel you.
I really do.
I mean, it it's not somethingyou should feel guilty about,
though, if that's the if that'sin any part of fear because
Because you are creating work.
I mean, just for this other showthat you you mentioned, you did
create work for three actors.
I know, I'm pretty excited.
That's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (44:46):
I will say, as much as all the heartbreak that I'm
feeling at at this stage, Ican't, we have no matter who our
big three are gonna be, sure.
I'm so excited to be able totell them.
Like we are truly at the stagewhere in final callbacks, and
it's like they are hype aboutthe project, and I'm hype about
the project.
I'm hype about them and theirtalent.
(45:06):
And it's truly one of thosethings where you're where it's
like, I wrote in the notes assomebody sent materials in, I
said to the director, I waslike, this actor makes my
writing better than it is.
Like I need them.
You know, it's just it's so andto share that's what's amazing
about theater is that like you,you as a writer, let's say, are
(45:26):
so excited about the projectfrom your point of view, from
your artistry, whatever you'rebringing.
But then the sound designer,like for our set designer right
now, we're taking meetings with,he is like so excited about the
show because of what he isbringing to the table.
And then he's doing all thisstuff I could never even dream
of.
I mean, truly, he's I'm likegetting these vector work
sheets, and I'm like, what theheck is that?
(45:47):
But it's like so cool to seepeople at the top of their
artistry and the top of theirpassion, the depths of their
passion, bring it to the table,and that's going to be true of
these three performers.
That's like so exhilarating, andto get to give that job to to
three actors is phenomenal.
And hopefully one day I'll getto employ, you know, a thousand
people on my Game of Thrones orwhatever.
Yeah, hell yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
So it must be so gratifying to like be able to
witness the full scope of likethe chain of inspiration.
Yeah.
Because like you've you'reyou're inspired by something,
you wrote something, now you'vegiven that thing to someone
else, and now they've beeninspired to create via you know,
whatever department they'reworking through.
SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
It sounds cheesy, but every time I get even the
slightest affirmation about theshow, like somebody writing in
an email briefly, like, justread the play, loved it, and
then they move on to somethingelse.
I'm like, my little heart singsbecause I again I'm at this
stage, maybe it'll be differentif one day I'm I'm making big
(46:45):
commissions for people who arehired to do this work.
But right now I'm in a stageright, I got to um I am at a
stage where, and I say thisoften on my dark days, it's like
I'm writing plays nobody askedfor, that nobody's paying me
for, and nobody said theyneeded.
And nonetheless, I perhapsdelusionally thought this
(47:09):
deserves to exist.
I'm interested in this.
I think this is awesome.
And then when you take that babyout into the world, and then
other people are like, what acute baby! Like this baby, this
baby is adorable and is gonnamake an amazing grown-up, and I
can't wait to see what they do.
Like, I'm like, you think mychild like has a place in this
(47:30):
world?
You are excited this childexists.
And let's be clear, noteverything I've ever done,
everybody says that about, andthat as they shouldn't, you
know, but you know, that's mybut for something like this that
is making it this far into theworld, it's really it's just so
cool that like now I can sendthe full script of a play that
again nobody asked for to agentsand managers and casting
(47:51):
directors and designers andartistic directors and whoever
requests it.
Yeah.
And then we get feedback fromeveryone who reads it who's
like, this is so awesome, we'regonna program it.
Or this is so awesome, I wannabe in it.
This is so and you're just like,wow, you know, maybe the things
I like and I'm into other peopleare too.
SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02 (48:13):
Bad audition story.
Just recently.
I have a m so many to choosefrom.
I got it.
Recently.
I got recently.
This is this is in the lastyear.
This was like in the summer, Ithink.
Here we go.
I got a tape to be in a horrorfilm.
Oh wow, horror story, horrorhorror story.
I had no real It was in afranchise, it was in the 28 Days
(48:35):
Later franchise.
Oh shit.
Mm-hmm.
Pretty cool.
They sent me clips of what thelike post-possession body should
look like, kind of like how whatthe movement style is.
They sent me a clip on YouTubeof like um like how you're
supposed to move parasite likeeating a cockroach and the bug
(48:56):
was like being all jerky andstuff like that.
Exactly.
So they were like, once you'reinfected, this is how you
behave.
So one scene was likepre-infection and one scene was
post-infection.
And so I had to really, and theywere like, go for it and have
fun.
So I did my standard scene, andthen I got to my infection
(49:17):
scene, and I really wanted toshow them like because I'm maybe
not the most I don't necessarilyread horror.
I don't know that sure.
I don't know what that reallymeans.
I don't know what that means,like but I haven't been hired
for that work before, so Ireally wanted to show my range.
Sure.
So I really threw my whole bodyinto it, and in fact, what I did
was give myself whiplash.
Oh no.
I like was like distorting mybody in this way, and then I
(49:40):
like swung around so fast tolike snap into the and it was my
first take of the scene.
I just like really did not, Iguess, plan ahead, and I felt my
neck snap, and then I finishedthe scene and pressed stop, and
I was like, they're gonna getone take of this because I can't
(50:03):
do that again.
And then for about four months,I had like pretty noticeable to
severe like neck and back painfrom just pretending to be a
zombified human for this horrorfilm, which obviously I did not
get called back for or hurtanything from.
(50:25):
So this is the sort of silentwork that's happening every day.
So it was something you did toyourself.
I totally did to myself.
That's the thing.
I know that's what's like sohumiliating about that story is
like nobody, nobody actuallyasked for that.
And I just I decided to hold it.
I didn't ask for you to hurtyourself.
I was like, oh, you want horror?
I'll break my neck on camera foryou.
What do you think next?
It was horrifying.
(50:46):
And then they were like, Well,we're gonna go in another
direction.
And I'm like, I'm like your neckdid.
Yeah, exactly.
Thank you.
And I'm like, I'm so glad I didthat.
I'm I'm yeah.
So this is the beautiful life,the glamorous life.
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
And that's why cool that you got to to audition for
that movie.
SPEAKER_02 (51:05):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
Well, it is cool.
This is why it's also good to bea player.
SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Killian Murphy's coming back for it, I believe.
SPEAKER_02 (51:11):
Yeah, I think you know, I didn't keep up with it.
I didn't keep up with it after Ididn't uh after I couldn't see
string when I snapped my neck.
You're like, it's not happening.
I genuinely was like, God forbidthey actually call me in for
this because if they want me toreplicate what just happened,
they will not be doing thatagain.
Incredible what you did.
Doing could you do that for 10takes on something?
SPEAKER_00 (51:32):
No, no, I got one in me.
And we're gonna need medic onstandby.
And if I don't get it on thefirst take, well, you'll have to
wait four months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I'm I think I'm okaynow, though.
I love it.
Brennan, this was so wonderfultalking to you.
Um, what are you working on?
I know you said you're producingsomething right now.
Any anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
Okay, so the only thing I have to promote is my
show, The Vessel.
The Vessel coming to 5090 59theaters this summer, July 30th
to August 23rd, unless we getextended, which would be rad.
Fantastic.
Uh, I will be playwriting butnot acting.
So if you want to come, I may behiding in the shadows watching
(52:12):
the show with you.
Um, or yeah, that's that'spretty much it.
And then Lord knows what elsewill come my way.
So you can follow me at CuriousBe George.
SPEAKER_00 (52:21):
There you go.
That's on Instagram?
SPEAKER_02 (52:23):
Yeah, Instagram.
Technically and TikTok.
Technically, TikTok too.
Although I'm very unreliable onthere.
I do sometimes I go on littlesprints where I um post and
yeah, I get a lot of things.
SPEAKER_00 (52:34):
I mean, I saw recently it looks like you've
been getting a lot of viewershipon your on your stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (52:38):
Yeah, uh it's true actually, but I feel uh quite
embarrassed by that actually.
Really?
Yeah.
But then I like I keeposcillating between like I've
gotta be shameless and just likedo my thing, gotta get my get my
name.
I like your show out there.
You get hot takes good takes.
I guess I'm just a yapper if youcan tell at the end of this
(52:58):
two-hour interview.
But yeah, I I guess that's mycalling is to yap.
SPEAKER_00 (53:03):
Hey, we all we all got something to yap about.
That's what this is for.
It's a podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (53:07):
Thanks.
Thanks for bravely putting a micin front of my face.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (53:10):
Thanks for bravely taking it.
SPEAKER_02 (53:11):
Yeah, it was a it was a real treat.
Thanks for hanging.
SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
All right, y'all.
That's this week's episode ofWorking Class Acts.
We'll see you next week.
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