August 10, 2026 • 54 mins
On this week's episode I sit down with the incredibly talented, Christopher Bannow. We discuss everything from our harrowing (but ultimately worthwhile) Williamstown experiences to philosophies on rejection.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
So I start my episodes off with like a little
thermal theater game just forfun.
Okay.
Um so you can choose from acouple of things, and then maybe
you can also help me uhestablish something or or or
figure out something that my uhmy partner Alexander and I were
debating this morning.
Okay, which is Tree or Stalin.
Did you ever play that atWilliamstown?
What is that?
Oh, okay, maybe not okay.
(00:21):
It's it's a g I'm terrible atit.
But it's uh it's a game whereone person thinks of something,
a person place or thing, uh-huh,and then uh the other person has
to guess what that is, but theyhave to guess it via like the
comparison between two things.
So you start with, is it closerto a tree or Stalin?
unknown (00:40):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
And then you choose from there, and then from there
you go, okay, let's say it's atree.
Uh you go, okay, is it a tree ora bush?
Bush, bush or a rock.
Oh, it's a rock.
And then that's how you play.
It is, it can be really easy orit can be infuriatingly hard.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
Wow.
And it can it could be like aperson, place, or thing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Yeah, it can be any, it can even be like it can be
literally anything.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
We don't have to do that.
Oh, wait, wait.
But you said there was a debate.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Is is there a debate?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Oh, we oh, the debate was whether or not we
learned it at Williamstown.
Because I remember learning itat Williamstown, and she also
remembers learning it atWilliamstown, but she said that
she thought she had taught it tome because she said she had seen
it in a play at Williamstown.
It this is so in the weeds.
I didn't know Alexander went toWilliamstown.
Yeah, I did 2017, yeah.
(01:28):
Oh, okay.
Um but uh yeah, I was like, no,I think it I think it's just a
game that they play there.
Well, you're teaching me thisgame right now.
So I guess no.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
I mean, but maybe, you know, a lot of things happen
at Williamstown that noteveryone's privy to.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Or remembers.
So it's possible.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Okay, do you want to be theperson thinking of something or
or guessing?
I would rather guess.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Okay, I think if I have I think if I have to do
this, I should I shouldsacrifice myself.
Fair enough.
All right.
I got something.
Okay, so I say I say tree orStalin?
Correct, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Uh tree.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Okay, and then I have to say tree and then
something new.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
And then something new, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
What's further from Stalin?
Tree or or dictator.
Tree.
Tree.
Tree or uh two-legged thing.
Tree.
Wow.
Tree or oatmeal.
(02:31):
Tree.
Tree or flower.
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
I'm gonna say the the re I'm thinking so much, I
am like, should I gometaphorical here?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or I can I can see that in theroom.
I'm gonna say flower.
Why not?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Yeah, okay.
Flower or object.
Object.
Okay, sorry, the the the poetrydied.
Um did it.
Or did it.
Object.
This is gonna be the wholepodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
Trust me, I've cut down every single trio stalin
I've ever played.
It's object or feeling.
It certainly elicits feeling forme.
I'll say object still, though.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Maybe maybe this there's a way to do this that I
don't understand.
But I'm I'm okay.
You're saying object.
Um okay, because I'm I'm nocloser than I was with Stalin
and Sree.
Um object or uh place.
Place.
Whoa.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Place the the that should behelpful.
Okay.
(03:37):
Yeah, there's there's very fewplaces in the world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's only like four or five.
We've got we've gotten there.
Um place or uh place or uh uhaddress.
Place.
(03:57):
Uh how do I guess it?
It's quite difficult.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
This game is tough.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Or like when I think I know what it is, do I like do
I do I stop?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
I mean you'll say I'll tell you if you got it.
Because it it's like it's tryingto get you're trying to like
weed it down to a thing.
So now you have place.
I'll tell you, it is a placethat I'm thinking of.
It is a place.
Now it's just a matter offinding out what the place is.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
It's not Williamstown.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
It is Williamstown.
Oh, it is.
Well, there you go.
Okay.
Well that's what I'd make it alittle easy.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
You know what's easy.
We talk about something for fiveminutes, and then you're like,
let me just choose the thing wewere just talking about to make
it really easy for Chris.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
Well, honestly, I played one here that was like 20
minutes long because it wassomeone chose someone, uh, a
basketball player, and I waslike, I I so know so little
about sports.
Yeah.
And I felt so terrible.
So you did better than I didthat day.
I guess.
Were they trying to be mean?
No, they thought it was easy.
They thought it would be easy.
And at the end of the day, itsort of was.
It was LeBron James that theywere thinking of.
(04:54):
So it wasn't like totally out ofleft field.
I was just so lost in the weeds.
Yeah.
Um it's okay.
We're all lost.
Yeah.
We're all lost, John.
unknown (05:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Welcome to the working class ads.
Thanks for having me, John.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
My name's Chris Banno, and I and I um and I do
theater and I do differentthings in theater, and I've
sometimes been hired to to doit.
Um and I live in New York City,and I have met people in other
places, like Williamstown, um,where we met, and uh I went to
(05:47):
school at places, um, I went toum Boston University, um, and I
went to Lambda, the LondonAcademy of Music and Dramatic
Arts.
Uh, and before that I went toECA, the Educational Uh Center
for Arts in in New Haven,Connecticut.
And then uh I also went to YaleUniversity for my master's in in
(06:11):
acting at also in New Haven, um,Connecticut.
I'm also from ish New Haven.
That's why I went to highschool.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
It's Christopher Bannow, everybody.
He's right here.
Wow.
Um, wow, wait, okay.
So you went to a lot ofdifferent schools.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
You said B U and the and Lambda and then Yale.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Well well, Lambda, it was like a semester abroad.
Oh, oh, I see, I see.
It was like a junior year youcould choose before they like I
I don't know if this is common,but they they kind of force you
to go abroad.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your junior year their secondsemester, they force all the
acting majors have to go toLambda.
I I I wasn't you must leave thecountry.
(06:52):
Kind of, yeah.
Like you have to study here.
I wasn't an acting major, I wasa theater arts major, which
basically was like a it was moreof like a you know, you you take
directing and playwriting and uhstage management and kind of
design classes, and you alsotake some gen ed classes and you
you can kind of create your ownas opposed to like a
conservatory.
Yeah.
But so through theater arts, youcould choose to go there or like
(07:16):
to the comedia.
There's there's this comedia inin I think it's Abruzzo, Italy,
which a couple of people it'slike a pretty well-known
program, but there was that,there was like this with um Jim
Um oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Jim.
Jim Jim.
I don't know.
Jim Calder.
Jesus.
Jim Calder.
Well, he does he does, right?
Yeah, at NYU, and he does acomedia thing over I think it's
over the summer though.
This and you said this was asecond semester thing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
This was, but I think it's a it's it has like a
life, I think it has a year, ayear-round life.
So maybe Jim is a part of it,potentially.
But anyway, there were lots ofoptions, and I ultimately kind
of chose to go with the actorsto to Lambda because I wanted I
wanted that and I wanted to bein London because I love I love
London so much.
Yeah.
(08:02):
It's I just want to get backthere, and I've I've tried, and
I actually I've almost succeededa couple times.
Um, but I I um I love it somuch.
So anyway, I I went to Lambda myjunior year, and then yeah, that
was all that.
And then I was in New York forlike a year.
Um, and then I met you atWilliamstown, and then
(08:23):
immediately after Williamstown,like it was like Williamstown
ended, and I went to orientationfor Yale, you know, to start to
start that program.
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
Oh, so you hadn't you hadn't hadn't started uh
when you were in atWilliamstown.
You were about to start.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
I was about to start.
Oh wow, okay.
I was I was newly, newly mintedas a as a Yalee.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean I only say that because honestly, dude,
you uh your work atWilliamstown, whenever I saw you
perform, you were one of myfavorite people to watch,
honestly.
It was uh I was like, this guy'sreally fucking good.
So to hear that you were thatgood even before Yale, I was
like, damn, this guy's thanks,John.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Yeah, dude.
I mean, you know, well, I don'tknow.
I don't know what any good, Idon't know what makes what makes
anyone good anymore.
I don't do I totally feel that.
But but the thing aboutWilliamstown, which is funny is
I auditioned the year before forthe non egg program.
And you know, it was like uh,hi, I'm Chris, here's my stuff.
They were like, Thank you.
Never heard from them.
Yeah.
And then the next year I go in,I do the exact same pieces, I
(09:21):
think, I think out of spite,because I was like, I want to
see something.
And then in my thing, I I waslike, Hi everyone, how's it
going?
Yeah, I just got into Yale and Idid the same pieces, and I swear
it was like the the it was likethe sun had risen and like I was
dewy, and all of a sudden it waslike, oh, oh wow, you know, and
(09:42):
I you felt like they were payingmore attention simply because
you had mentioned that billionthat sense that says so much,
which is why I said thing aboutlike what's good because I I
just I I feel like so much,especially vintage Williamstown.
It was like all about the shine.
Yeah, it was all about like theshiny object uh part of being an
actor.
And so I felt I am I gossiping?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
No, dude, trust me.
I've had a couple other peopleon Williamstown.
We've gossiped.
Okay, it's totally fine.
Okay, I'll tell my stories aboutWilliamstown because I had a
very difficult time there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
Yeah, well, just like per person, uh
interpersonally, uh or not, Iguess not interpersonally, like
the people that I met werelovely.
It was more the culture of justlike, I mean, it's in the middle
of nowhere.
Yeah.
Um, I wasn't drinking at thetime um or doing anything like
that.
And like it's at the end of theday, like people would party and
like go and drink at bars andstuff like that.
And I was just like, uh, I justfelt kind of outside of the the
(10:36):
the culture or something for alittle while.
Um and also I was exhausted,like as an apprentice.
Oh Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
I was just talking to not to name drop, but you
know the playwright Beth Henley?
Yeah.
Um we we've like developed afriendship.
I've wondered a couple thingswith her, and she has this play
now at the Vineyard.
Bughouse, it's called.
I haven't seen it yet.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
No, uh Alexandra and I just saw just saw it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my god, it was so cool.
The the set and the artistry ofit all was really, really cool.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, Bethany.
SPEAKER_01 (11:08):
Well, no, I was just talking to her.
I don't know why we weretalking.
Oh, because we we were talkingabout she's written a couple
plays and I've done readings ofthem, and she was like, Where do
you think you know this couldhappen or whatever?
And she brought up Williamstown,and I was like, Beth, it's not,
it isn't, it doesn't existanymore.
And she was like, Yeah, whathappened?
And I kind of said the wholething, you know, I was like, you
know, the whole like the wholeuh unpaid labor part of it.
(11:29):
Yeah.
Actually, no, the paying to belabored.
Paying to be unpaid labor.
Yeah.
Uh is kind of is kind of whatwhat stunk it.
Yeah.
She was like, What?
It's like, yeah, that's the onlyway that place ever existed is
because you had, I mean, howmany apprentices?
It was like six.
There was a lot.
50-ish?
Yeah, something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:48):
Every summer that would pay to and you know, like
you you paid, I mean, I guess Iguess summer camps charge money,
but you know, it you're likeit's it's also like, well, a
school also charges you moneyand you're learning, and like
you don't necessarily make moneyfrom like the shows you do
there.
Yeah.
But it's like it we would dolike it was non-stop while you
(12:08):
were there.
And like you would have to doovernight strikes and stuff like
that, and it was just like,well, this is is this what I
signed up for?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
Um also like you like paid to like I mean, I mean
part of it, like let's behonest, part of that place,
people would go there becausethey knew they could like they
could pick young people up.
Uh uh yeah.
I mean, uh like surely I mean Idon't know that for a like a
fact.
I don't have like the the likethe the hard evidence, but yeah,
(12:39):
I mean people would come becausethey knew that they there was a
a lot of young people who wantedto spend time with the more
famous people, and then thefamous people I mean I we won't
we won't say names on thispodcast, but I know I don't know
if it was your summer or thenope, it was your summer.
I know I'm I know what happenedwith people and places and
(12:59):
things.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Oh my god.
Wait, we'll talk about that offoff air, maybe more.
Or I don't know.
Yeah.
Um yeah.
No, but I I totally I totallyfeel you.
And like like I was just saying,like the because the play it's
so isolated, it's just likethere's nothing else to do.
I I don't know.
Like it's it's it was such aweird, it was such a weird
atmosphere.
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
And saying that, it also gave me so many uh things
in my career that I wouldn'thave otherwise.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Yeah.
Oh, and but this was the thing,then this is the thing too.
Like um uh the theapprenticeship in particular was
like such a bizarre experiencebecause it's like you're they
kind of sell you on this notionof like you come here, you get
to like you'll learn all likeall the different aspects of
theater.
And I suppose that's true.
But also like you still had toaudition for things, and like if
(13:47):
you didn't get into things, youcould go the whole summer
without performing.
You could.
Um, I was very fortunate to bein the cabaret in one of the ten
uh 10 minute plays.
Um but I know some people whodidn't who who didn't get the
any of those opportunities,maybe a 10-minute, but like it
nothing was guaranteed.
Yeah.
Uh and that always that's sortof like that's so bums me out.
(14:07):
And that's something that likeeven in educational
institutions, like uh, you know,my undergrad where I I I learned
quite a bit, but they didn'thave um this uh I always think
there needs to be a a certainlevel of a quota at an
educational institution soeveryone's getting the same
amount to work with.
Because I know some people in myundergrad who went through and
(14:30):
only got to do one show in thefour years that they were there.
And I'm just like, I don't andand the excuse that always comes
up is well, it's preparing youfor the real world.
In the real world, you might getrejected.
I'm like, let the real world dothat on its own.
It'll do that on its own.
Like give people at least achance coming out of here
(14:50):
because like if they don't havelike stuff on the resume or like
any experience, then you're notgiving them any chance to
thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Um what part of what part of rejecting someone helps
them become a better actor?
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
That's what I that that's the thing too.
I'm like, I'm like, maybe thatlook, we all have to deal we all
have to deal with rejection inour lives.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like that's a human thing we allgo through.
So yes, I totally agree.
I don't think it helps at all.
Like, if you're in aneducational institution, you
should be given as manyopportunities as possible to
figure out if it's for you andlike to build your skill.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah.
Um otherwise it's just a scam.
Well, so John, but we've bothbeen through higher education.
We both we both spent a lot oftime learning how to act.
And so let me let me pose thisquestion to you on your own
podcast.
Oh, I love this.
Do you think do you think it doyou think it added up?
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Do you think that the Um It's it's See the thing
is I feel very fortunate andthat I was I I didn't fall
through those cracks as much asI know some other people did.
Um w for whatever reason.
Um but i i I mean, I've had I'vehad several years where I've not
(16:03):
been working and it just sucks.
It just sucks to be away fromthis thing that you love and
fulfills you and is such anessential good for our country,
especially now when thedivisions are so so apparent.
Um And so I I don't know.
(16:23):
I I think it's it's I think thebigger question is like why is
there so little access?
Why why does why do the artsevery year, like in so many
different ways, get less andless funding and becomes less
and less important?
Um I've always said this.
(16:43):
I don't know where I heard this,and it's it's gonna be a real
downer, people, but I thinkAmerica loves art.
Okay.
It hates artists.
Let that sink in everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
I'm trying to think of like the equivalent to that
of like America loves bakedgoods, but they hate bakers.
I don't know why that's thefirst thing that can be a good
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
No, but it's good, but it's a good comparison.
You have to compare it to otherindustries, or else what's the
point?
Um but it's like, and that'ssuch a downer.
I try not to think about thatevery day of my life.
Uh-huh.
But it's I do think there issome.
I mean, just looking at thiscurrent administration, like
there's nothing, it does notsupport free speech of any kind.
(17:36):
And just I mean, the NationalEndowment of the Arts like no
longer exists.
Yeah.
Um Yeah.
Yeah.
But anyway, back to you, Chris.
Oh no, I mean, we're bothsitting here.
No, I love it.
I do appreciate you asking methat question, though.
It's it's uh it's rare that Iget m interviewed on my own
(17:56):
podcast, which is great.
Happy to help.
Um, but anyway, let's bring itback to the beginning.
Okay, Christopher.
You so you grew up inConnecticut, you said?
Yeah?
Yeah.
New Haven-ish.
New Haven-ish.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
I grew up all over kind of the Metro North line.
So I was born in Bridgeport, andthen I lived in Westport for a
tad, then Stratford, thenMilford, then New Haven,
adjacent or New Haven.
Sure.
So you so yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Wow.
Popped around a little.
So where did you get theproverbial bug?
When were you bit?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Well, early, yeah, like super early.
So uh the reason we lived aroundthere is my mom and my dad both
worked in theater.
Oh, great.
My mom was an actor, and my dador i is still, but was an actor,
my dad is a drummer.
Oh, cool.
And there was this theatercalled the Downtown Cabaret
Theater in Bridgeport,Connecticut, which is kind of
like a weird old I don't thinkit's still around, but it's it
(18:47):
obviously it's gone through manyiterations since.
But like I think it's where theAmerican premiere of Blood
Brothers happened.
Okay, which was a musical that Ithink it's British.
Um, and they had like a bunch ofI don't know, they had like some
I think it was like a placewhere like New York actors would
go and there'd be like a busthat would take you from the
city to Bridgeport, you'd do theshow and you'd catch the bus
(19:08):
back.
And I think it was like a it wasa like a thing in like the 80s
and 90s, and so my parentsworked there, and so there's
this video.
My mom, they also they did a lotof children's theater.
Um and my mom was always a partof them.
Um, and she would often like subin for shows so she would get
like the script and she get arecording of the of the tape.
(19:30):
And there's this video of mewatching the tape on the TV that
she had obviously learned andwatched a bunch of times, and I
had seen it so many times that Ihad memorized all the lines of
the prince in this thing, and Iit was me like looking at the
tape, and like when he wouldenter, I would like kind of walk
a little more to the right, andthen I would say the words
watching him, and then he wouldleave and I would kind of exit
(19:50):
off the off the quote unquotestage.
So I like grew up seeing my momact, and basically I grew up
backstage at this at this onetheater, like it wasn't like
general theater, it was like atheater was my you know, like
kind of like a home for myfamily.
So I I started taking camp whenI was about seven because my mom
(20:14):
also taught at a at a theatercalled Music Theater of
Connecticut, which was inWestport.
They have some cool alums.
I mean, you know, Justin Paulfrom Pesic and Paul, like who
David Hansen.
Of course.
I like grew up doing shows withhim.
Oh, very cool.
Um, some like filmmakers, somewriters, yeah, like a bunch of
people that I grew up with allare still in theater.
Um that's awesome.
(20:34):
But so I started taking classesin camps there, and it just kind
of stuck.
Like I I just there'd be pointsin my life where it'd be like
I'd have to choose betweensports camp and theater camp.
Sure.
I chose theater camp.
And then when I got older, itwas like between being in a band
and doing shows, and Iultimately chose doing shows.
And then I went to thisperforming arts high school uh
(20:57):
in New Haven.
It was like a normal school fromseven to twelve thirty, and then
I'd take a bus and go to thearts school from like one to
four.
Nice.
And so I did that, and so yeah,I just kept I always kept
choosing theater, which is crazybecause now I'm old and I'm just
like, this is all I've everdone.
(21:17):
That's fantastic though.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, maybe, yeah.
(22:03):
I was always very aware howunglamorous it was.
Like my parents were, you know,they weren't they weren't like
they weren't like making a tonof money.
Um they always they and they hadother jobs.
Like my mom taught aerobics, mydad worked in construction and
sold insurance, and they hadmany other jobs.
And so I was I was very like Iwas very humble being like, I'm
not gonna like this is this isthe life.
(22:25):
Yeah, the life that that one canlive doing this.
But I I just kind of I justloved it.
And I should say it too.
I was very shy as a kid.
Um You were very shy as a kid,you say?
Very, very shy.
And so I wouldn't really talk.
Talk a lot, but on stage I I Ifelt I felt okay to talk.
I felt okay to kind of letloose.
And so maybe part of it was alsolike, you know, I need this or
(22:48):
this gives me something.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah.
Do you feel like if you hadn't,if your your family hadn't been
in the arts and the theater asmuch, do you feel like you would
have you would have gravitatedto the theater as quickly as you
did?
Never.
I don't I don't I really don'tyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
I really don't think so because I I was so shy.
I don't think I would have knownthat that outlet exists did.
I like I I love I love math.
I love numbers, I love likeboring things.
I like like nothing is moresatisfying than like getting
like a page of equations andlike spending time to finish the
(23:22):
equation and then like hand inyour assignment or whatever.
I think that's so exciting.
My teacher in high schoolthought I was gonna go into like
math.
Yeah.
And then one day, like they likemet my parents for like a
conference, and I think theyfound out that I wasn't gonna do
that, and they were really like,Oh, I are you sure?
Um so yeah, I don't think Iwould have I don't necessarily
(23:43):
know that I would have found itif my if my mom and dad hadn't
been so kind of entrenched init.
Yeah, yeah.
Um which is which is maybe I canblame them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Yeah, yeah.
But always blame your parents.
Always blame your parents.
Yeah.
It always works.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
Yeah.
Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
And so you you grew up doing th theater, you went to
a performing arts high school.
Yeah, yeah.
What what is that like?
I I because I grew up in apublic school system and like
our our theater program actuallyat my public school is was
pretty decent, was pretty good.
Um, but it what is thedifference?
Are you taking theater classesthroughout the day and stuff
like that, and then also somegen eds on the side or what have
(24:21):
you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
And yeah, I mean the theater, the the the arts high
school was just it was like justarts.
It was amazing.
Oh wow I honestly I don't knowthat I would have gotten through
high school without it.
No, I mean I I would take thatstuff at my from my normal
school.
I don't know math.
Like I I would cram all theclasses in kind of in the first
part of the day so that theywere and then we left early to
(24:42):
do the the art stuff.
So it like added some of ournecessary elective requirements,
you know, for our school so wecould graduate.
But but no, it was just art.
I I I loved it so much, and Ihonestly felt even at the time,
I was like, this is amazing thatI get to do this stuff.
And you know, probably in ahorrible way, it made me feel
(25:04):
like I knew so much when I wentto college because I was like,
I've been taking you know, likeI mean, we we we took like
Michael Chekhov classes in highschool.
I took like mask work.
I that's fantastic.
We got to we took like theaterfor social change and we would
do improv and we would do voiceand LeBan and like we did all
this stuff as 15, 16 year olds.
And you know, we don't knowanything about ourselves or our
(25:26):
bodies or like my I remember mymonologue for it was like a
Charlie Brown monologue where hehas the bag over his head in in
lunch.
Like you know, I'm I'm like aneighth grade auditioning, and
somehow I think that that's likeand then I'm just like I know so
much now because I went to theschool, I will cause social
change.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, but but we felt that way,and yeah, honestly, absolutely
(25:48):
the fact that that school couldhelp us feel like we had some
autonomy and some agency in likein affecting the world through
art, I think was probably thebiggest gift it could have given
us, you know.
Um, that I really felt like Iwas an artist when I was 16, 17,
and like I was uh amongst it,which I think is sometimes the
(26:11):
hardest thing.
Uh and you know, I constantlyhave to re-find it, but you
know, the the confidence of likeI I am a storyteller, I know how
to do this and I and I believein this.
I think that I've lost that somany times in my life and had to
re find it in different moments,and it doesn't matter how much
you've done or how much trainingyou have or you know what what
(26:34):
accolades you've gotten, you youstill I think that you you come
against that um as an artist.
You're just like I yeah, do Ihave do I know what I'm doing?
And like am I do I believe inmyself any anymore?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
I I do I feel that so hard.
I've been going through thatlike uh like every other day.
Like to today I I have a callback for something that I really
want to get.
Um, but that's been runningthrough my head.
This like, am I worthy of thisplace that I'm like going in
for?
Yeah.
Um and then it's like, yeah, ofcourse I am.
It's a weird mental gymnastics.
(27:07):
It's like one day it's strong,one day it's not, and both are
okay, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Yeah.
Can I share this one littlething?
Just please.
If this helps you at all, pleaseI recently heard this and I was
like, I like that.
Uh also you mentioned basketballat the beginning of this.
I don't know if that'll make thecut.
But this basketball player umwho played one game in the NBA,
he he wrote this little thingwhere he was like, you know,
that one game I played it reallysafe because it was like my
(27:34):
first time doing it.
And in hindsight, I wish I hadlike gone for 50 points.
I wish I had done everythingbecause he played that one game
safe and then he was cut fromthe team.
Basically, he was like, youknow, even if I had missed every
single shot I took, the same endresult would have been, I would
have been cut.
Yeah.
So and he said the mindset washe was approaching it like, will
I will I fail?
And he has since then went intofinance, and because it was
(27:58):
something that he hadn't trainedfor his whole life and didn't
feel the pressure for, yeah, hesimply was like, for finance, he
he said like he approached everyday, like, oh, will I succeed?
Yeah.
And that simple thing of just,you know, going into a thing,
being like, Oh, will I actuallysucceed today?
Yeah.
And that hopeful optimismpeeking through as opposed to
the holding onness of like, am Igonna put one thing in the wrong
(28:21):
place and fail or am I gonnaanyway?
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
No, I think that's lovely.
It's so interesting.
Like, that is so true.
I feel like it's it, I wonderwhere human beings get this,
like if this is inherently humanor if it's something we have
like injected into our ourselvesin a toxic manner, the the
notion of that question, will Ifail versus the will I succeed?
(28:46):
Like, is that inherent or isthat something we've taught
ourselves in uh uh as like a badhabit?
Yeah.
Um so performing arts highschool, you go on to wait, so
you you go on to where'd you go?
Boston University.
Boston University, yes, BostonUniversity.
Went through Lambda, yeah, andthen you told everyone you went
(29:07):
to Yale, you went toWilliamstown, then you went to
Yale.
How was your time there uh atthat very prestigious
university?
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
I loved it.
Yeah.
I so loved it.
I mean, this was, you know, inthe 2010s, like there's 11, 2011
to 2014.
So it's obviously changed somuch, and also just the world
has changed so much since then.
So there were definitely issueswith it in terms of like
representation and in terms ofwho was teaching and in terms of
how I don't know.
And the school I think has donea lot to grapple with that in
(29:39):
the years since that I've heardfrom you know people who teach
there and have gone there.
Um, but I I truthfully had agreat time there.
Fantastic.
I feel like I feel like Ilearned how to be a better human
by going to school, and that'sultimately the stuff that I
think I try to hold on to.
Yeah.
And I just met the mostinspiring artists and amazing
(30:02):
people that I continue to workwith to this day, and I, you
know, I just loved, I love Ilove a container.
Uh-huh.
I that's I I mean, I loveTupperware too, but I love I
love it, I love a set ofparameters, be it like a
schedule or uh a set of peoplethat you have to work with.
I just find like, you know, thatit just unlocks something in me.
(30:25):
And some of the trouble I have,I think being a artist floating
around in New York is that therearen't as many containers.
There's not as many parameters,and so I don't know always where
to put my energy or kind of whatto what to what to sum it into.
But in a school environment, Ijust feel like I I get it.
And like I start kind of likeclicking in ways that I that I
(30:46):
um am thinking less and justdoing more.
It was also really hard.
I had like some of the hardestexperiences of my life at school
and felt fell into deepdepression, but ultimately I
like I loved the experience ofit.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's that you know, I itlike there's no repertory
companies anymore, and I Ireally wish there were because
like that notion of like theensemble of it all is so that is
one of the best parts aboutbeing a part of a um you know a
cohort like uh in in school isyou get to know all these people
(31:18):
and getting to know them reallyhelps you connect more and that
only helps the work get better.
Um, but yeah, like you said,it's like when you're in New
York City or just anywhere now,there's there's not many
repertory companies, so it'slike every new cast is a
completely new group of peopleyou have to get to know.
Yeah, which can be overwhelming,but also exciting because it's
(31:38):
new people, it's always nice tomeet new people.
Um yeah, there is somethingabout like the ensemble that I I
really miss from just from myown time at NYU and even at
Adelphi.
Um oh wait, so why at your timeat Yale, uh was James Bundy was
there, it was PFJ, Peter FrancisJames.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
PFJ, Ron Van Lu, Evan Eunulis, who now runs
Juilliard, uh Erica Faye, uh uhum Faye Simpson, who now is at
NYG.
SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
Yeah, she's been there for for a few years now,
yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Um Walton, I mean yeah, we just we had such a I
yeah, I loved the teachers.
I just felt taken care of, and II just I just so appreciated
kind of that we had that spaceto kind of fail and try and fail
and try.
And yeah.
And um, I don't know, like in mymind too, it's like you know,
Yale has such a reputation ofbeing like such a a stuck up
(32:35):
place.
I I think or so sometimes I'veheard that like people from Yale
are just the same thing of NYU.
Oh, well, it's a it's a weirdthing.
I mean, there's things, youknow, sure.
Uh right.
There's a chip on your shoulder,be like, oh, I went to the
school, so therefore I know morethan than you do or whatever.
And and I I love everything I Ilearned there, but like, you
know, if someone kind of freshto New York was like, should I
(32:56):
go to grad school?
Like, it's not it doesn'tdoesn't doesn't like it doesn't
solve any of your issues.
No.
It gives you it gives you moreum ways to problem solve.
Sure.
But it doesn't take away any ofyour deficiencies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Like like still trying to get a job out here,
you know.
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
Of course we are, of course.
And it's and it's so tricky tonavigate, yeah, being an artist,
and ultimately none of themreally teach you what that
means.
They give you tools in aclassroom, but in terms of like
living your life as an artist,that's up that's up to you to
decide and yeah figure out.
SPEAKER_00 (33:31):
Well, that's a perfect segue into like what how
was your time coming right outof Yale?
Like, did you find did you feellike you could hit the ground
running, or did you feel likethere was some dips or well?
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
I was so lucky.
We mentioned Williamstown.
So my my summer after I wentthere two summers in a row.
Oh, really?
I didn't know that.
I went there after you um and Idid free theater again.
I did uh Sherlock Holmes.
Oh, cool.
I played Watson.
Oh button.
And the crazy thing is when theywhen they asked me to come back
and do that, I had this like,oh, they want me to do free
(34:05):
theater again.
Like I was already outdoorsdoing free theater for families.
Like, surely they want me tolike play a role in one of the
shows or whatever.
And I was there was part of methat was like so like indignant
for the first day.
Uh-huh.
But it was with Lila Neugebauerdirecting.
Oh my god.
I mean, you know, now she's nowshe's world famous.
Incredible.
But at the time, I was justlike, I mean, I I loved Lila
(34:26):
because she was a a directingintern that year, but I was
like, with Lila and that, like,I don't know if that's really
what I want to do with mysummer.
Yeah.
And I was like, come on, Chris,like, it's gonna be so fun.
It was so fun.
And also that summer, JordanFine was there, who is now a
Olivier nominated director manytimes over, and he directed me
(34:47):
and my friend Mama Doo in ZooStory, and we did it.
And Scott Ellis and BradleyCooper came to very cool, and
like two days later, I got castin Elephant Man there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
I was gonna say again, another perfect segue
because I saw that productionand it was fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
It was it was so much fun to do at Williamstown,
and that was between my firstand second year, and there were
like rumblings of it moving toBroadway, but I was like, I'm
still in school, and like Iyeah, I'm not gonna like I'm not
gonna leave.
I I knew enough that I was like,I don't think I really want to
leave school to do this one showwhere I had like a you know,
like a scene basically, a smallrole.
And I was like, I just feel likeschool, I don't know, I want to
(35:26):
finish it.
Yeah, and like March of my thirdyear, I get a call or email from
Calary being like, Hey Chris,checking your availability for
uh a fall Broadway run ofElephant Man.
Oh my god.
And I was just like, uh I getthat email every day.
I'm I'm available.
James Clary.
And um, and then like a daylater, I get the offer.
(35:50):
Oh my god, that's awesome.
This is before showcase, it'sbefore everything.
So I just was like, Oh, I'mgonna be on Broadway.
Wow.
With these amazing people in theshow.
So I graduated and actually, andI and I did a like a show at the
Berkshires, and then I did a asmaller show off off, and then
we started rehearsal, I don'tknow, in October or whatever.
And and it was the gift thatkept on giving because we did it
(36:13):
that winter, and then somewherein like January, they call us
before uh a show, all on stage,and Scott Ellis, the director,'s
there, and he's like, Heyeveryone, so um we're moving the
show to London and we want youall to come with us.
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Yeah, I was gonna say it did have a West End run.
It did have a West End run.
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
So, and we all were just like, Oh my god.
Um then we closed, I don't know,like February or March, and and
then I think that like June weall started rehearsal in London.
We ran through that August,which is just to say that like I
I I felt like a I felt like alike a like a magical fairy
being.
I was like, I did the show forfree at Williamstown, and it
(36:53):
gave me my job out of school,and then it's taking me to the
West End, which as I saidearlier, I love London.
Yeah, and so I got to live offRegents Park and like walk
through Soho to the theater inthat summer, and we like it was
so idyllic, it was so beautiful.
And at that time, I met Holly,who is my wife now, and we we
met kind of in a magical momentaround all this stuff happening.
(37:16):
And like she was living in NewZealand, and when I was in
London, I like she came to seeme and I, you know, was had all
this stuff happening, so I gotto take her out to all these
places, and it just felt likethis moment where I was like,
all dreams come true, tralala.
And then and then I didn't work,you know.
(37:37):
And then I and then I fell intodepression and had no money and
didn't work.
But the first year out ofschool, yeah, it was like
constant work with people that Iadmired, and so many friendships
and exploration and meeting thelove of love of my life and like
traveling across the world tosee each other.
It was really truly not what Ithought my life would be at that
(38:01):
time.
And I was just like, like itmade me it made me believe in
God a little bit.
Yeah, it made me believe in Goda little bit because I was just
like the the the work less so,but meeting meeting Holly was
like, Yeah, how what is life?
Yeah, what what what is life?
SPEAKER_00 (38:15):
Um all around one decision to go and do a free
show at Williamstown.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, that really that really it really set
off so many, so many things.
So, you know, I can shit talkWilliamstown and also I can sit
here and be like, I owe it somuch of my of my life.
Totally.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Oh my god, there's a movie there.
There's there's a movie there.
Yeah.
Let's do this, let's producethis, we'll make this happen.
SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
Well, you know, my my how we met, my wife and I.
Yeah, I won't go into the thedirty, dirty details, but but
this is actually the movie, isthat she was with her friends
for her bachelorette week.
She was gonna marry someone.
Oh my god, that's so cliche.
It's cliche.
And for part of her bacheloretteweek ceremonies, because she had
never ever done any onlinedating or Tinder anything, they
(39:02):
made her make a profile and theysaid, You have to go on one
Tinder date as part of yourBachelorette week.
And she made a profile, and shematched with me, and she was
like, I'll go on a date withthis guy.
And they all came on the date,all of her friends with her.
And I showed up.
They came with her on the date.
Yeah, it was like six of them.
Did you know that was gonnahappen?
Oh my god.
(39:22):
I didn't know any of this.
I was just like, whatever.
(39:47):
Perfect, like wrong.
It's all there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh anyway, that is that is howthat is how we met.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
That is incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
So it and then obviously many other things
happened after that.
Yeah.
Um, which you'll have to you'llhave to subscribe to Paramount
Plus when the movie is streamingto see what happens.
But uh making millions ofdollars.
I shouldn't promote Paramount.
What a horrible company.
Sorry, you can it'll be it'llbe.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
What's an ethical our own independent production
streaming and productioncompany?
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know if it exists, butwe'll we'll create it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Oh my god.
Anyway, so oh that's incrediblethough, dude.
Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy,crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (40:27):
Choose a number one through seven.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
I'm gonna choose seven.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Seven?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
What do you believe is the actor's responsibility in
civil activism in an industrythat is about humanity?
SPEAKER_01 (40:42):
I mean, I I don't have a intelligent answer for
this at all, so uh uh I'm alsojust like a white sis male, you
know, so I I I I answer thisknowing that like I I bring what
I bring to the table and I lookup to the people who are more
civically engaged than I am andwhose identity is literally, you
(41:03):
know, in the in the cross in thecrosshairs of of our current
time and and and living.
So I I can't pretend to know asmuch uh through my own lived
experience, but I can say thisthat I I I do I do believe in
(41:24):
theater so much, and the reasonI believe in it is because it's
a place where we ask manydifferent people, hopefully of
many different backgrounds, tocome together and to
collectively listen to onestory.
What that story is, is slowlybut surely expanding, and we're
including more stories for ageneral audience to listen to.
(41:47):
We're still really grapplingwith that.
We're also still reallygrappling with how do we bring
in an audience that is way moreexpansive than you know the the
middle class white 50 to 70 yearold subscribers, the brimer
generation.
And I just I appreciate all theinstitutions that are working so
hard to change both of thosedemographics, the stories that
(42:09):
were told on stage, who'swriting these stories, who's in
these stories, what bodies arewe seeing telling stories, and
then also who are we bringinginto the theater and how are we
expanding access to that?
Um I I think that those twothings are so important, and as
actors we have so little controlover most of that stuff, right?
And so I think the things thatwe do have control over as
(42:33):
actors is like do I actuallywant to tell this story?
And do I think that the story isworth telling when we choose
jobs?
Yeah, this is crazy actually.
Remembering this, I got asked toaudition for a show way back
when, and it was to play likelike a full-on Arab character.
(42:55):
It was really and I was like, Iremember this is you know in in
2000, I don't even remember whenthis was, 2010, 2011 or
something.
And I remember at the time beinglike, I'm confused.
I maybe don't have like the likelike the verbiage to express
this right now, but I'm like,this isn't okay.
And and and I I only said no tothe audition.
(43:17):
Yeah, and it was the first timewhere I was like, I need work, I
need money, I have no money, Ihave no work, but this work and
money isn't my work or money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I need to make a decisionright now to to support that.
Yeah.
And often our only power as anactor, if we are, you know,
(43:38):
being asked to tell stories, isto we give our yes or we give
our yes or no.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, yeah.
And by giving our yes, we say, Isupport you, ex-institution,
telling Z story at this time tothis audience, and I will throw
my hat in to help be the thing.
Or no is for whatever reason Idon't, this isn't a part of my
my my journey.
(43:59):
Yeah.
Um and I think that it's hardbecause we're all we all want to
work, but it it's reallyimportant that we don't support
these things that are, you know,either ignorant of what they're
doing or worse, are justpandering to try to I don't
(44:20):
know, please some level ofdonors or some I I feel that
remnants of the past.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also just like the themisrepresentation of it all,
it's just like it's a it's aliteral whitewash.
Yeah.
Um, it's so interesting youbring that up because I I I I
remember this one instance whereI was offered an audition where
they were like, we need someonewho can speak uh uh Hebrew, and
you'll be playing this personwho can speak that.
And I'm like, I don't speakHebrew at all.
Uh and they're like, but youlook like the character.
(44:47):
And I'm just like, I don't speakthis language, it's not my
language, and it it it's it'sjust gonna be a waste of
everyone's time.
I don't care that I look likethe this character, I'm not
this.
Person, so it's not going to beauthentic.
It's not worth uh trying to likeforce people to believe that uh
(45:09):
I am like this person, and um Idon't know.
I think I I think also like inthe past the the notion of and
this still exists, especiallylike in the film industry world,
uh the notion of like thetransformative actor, like doing
something that's so not yourexperience and making it seem
(45:31):
authentic.
I'm like, yeah, but there arepeople out there who that is
their experience, and it couldhave been just natural to them
if you gave them the theopportunity to perform it.
Yeah, it's just the whitewashingof of things that really like
gets to me at times, and I'mjust like, Well, what like it's
going back, it's going back tolike this discussion, this that
(45:52):
feeling that you had when youwere a kid, and the social
change of it all is just likebecause social change can be for
good or bad.
For sure, you know, for sure.
It's like, so if I choose to dothis thing, I am choosing to say
that my interpretation ofsomeone else's experience,
authentic experience, is morevaluable and more valid in the
(46:12):
theater than their authenticexperience.
Yeah, you know, and it's likethat doesn't sit right, you
know.
No, it doesn't make me think ofthat.
And that's the tough thing aboutbeing an actor because you do
have to change, quote unquote,yourself sometimes for a part.
SPEAKER_01 (46:25):
For sure.
Yeah.
And and also you have to acceptthat like you can change all you
want, but if like the personcasting it doesn't see that in
you or doesn't want it in you,then that's fine too.
Yeah.
This actor Danny Wallahan, I Idon't remember, I don't know why
this sticks out to me, but Iremember it was some point in
like the you know, some pointthat in 2016 or 2018 when like,
you know, people were reallyactively trying to diversify
(46:46):
roles and they were trying to,you know, bring in more people
of color and like differentethnicities into into roles and
on on stages because it was Imean, maybe maybe maybe this was
actually more we we see you whattime.
So it was like at post that.
But I remember like Dannyposting this thing somewhere,
just being like, white actors,stop complaining that like, oh,
they're just casting someone ofcolor.
(47:07):
Like, can you just accept thatyou or like stop using that as
an excuse?
Like, just be better actors.
Yeah.
Can you just like can can whitemen just be better actors as
opposed to complaining that likethey're not getting jobs because
people don't want to see like awhite man on stage or like
because they're like losing outto someone just because you know
someone else represents adifferent culture community that
(47:27):
that is woefully underserved inour community?
Yeah.
And I just loved it because itwas just like, can you just
fucking like just be good andstop relying on like
institutional racism to get youwork?
Yeah, yeah.
And like, yes, like please, likelet me get cast less because
someone in a chair of authorityrealizes that they've cast a
(47:48):
show that's entirely white orentirely whatever, and they're
just like, I don't think that weshould just slouch towards
complacency.
Yeah, we need to have someagency in like who we're
choosing to tell stories, butyeah, on stage, on screen, like
wherever, yeah, like onpodcasts.
It's just like we just we justhave to do better.
And so, like as actors, we don'thave the authority to like make
(48:10):
those decisions, but we can bealigned with some understanding
of like where we are and likeall the privilege that you know
you and I have, and and tellstories and also like I don't
know, support the places and thepeople that are like engaging
civically and are at leaststriving to fight against like
(48:33):
what happens when when wellfrankly, like when there's fear
or when there's complacency,which I think you know there is
a lot of fear right now withlike yeah, money and
institutions and funding.
You mentioned the NEA and likeyeah, places are programming
really safe things because ithas DI DEI and anything, and you
know, the grants get get thrownout, or like or the the
(48:53):
institution might not get moneyand people have you know their
priorities, but I just feel likeI just feel like surely, surely
there's there's at least there'sat least some value in like uh
making small choices that alignwith your values.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is it's like evenright now, during this time that
we're we're currently in wherelike funding for the arts is
really not great.
Um and I say great uh in a veryitalicized um there's this quote
I'm gonna paraphrase the hellout of this.
(49:31):
Uh Ibrahim X Kennedy has a bookcalled Stamped from the
Beginning, and in the beginningof it, uh he talks about like
progress isn't a one, it isn'tit isn't like a just adding,
adding, adding, adding, adding.
It's it takes place in thesesort of pockets where one thing
will progress, and then thatother thing that had progressed
(49:53):
will recede, but this otherthing progresses, and then it's
just back and forth.
And over time, you can seethrough history, that's why we
learn history, where, oh yeah,we have progressed through time
in this way and progressedthrough this industry, and
things have gotten better incertain ways.
It's it's about like keepingyour attention on these things
and also to to connect it towhat you were saying.
(50:17):
The the notion of like it takesthose what might seem like small
choices to shift ourunderstanding of things.
Like when white actors come outand say like they're they're
just doing it for DEI or likeit's whatever, and it's like,
no, you're actually what you'reexperiencing right now is
equity.
(50:37):
Yeah, yeah, like what you'reexperiencing right now is the
great entitlement you have beenprivileged to have, whether you
were conscious of it or not.
Right.
And now it's forcing you to haveto evolve, yeah.
And you don't like that.
Yeah.
And it I look, I'll admit, as awhite person who has grown up in
(50:58):
America, I recognize that I havebiases and was raised in a
racist community.
It's something you have to facein yourself, and it's really
hard, especially when you'reolder.
Um, but it is it is all for thegreater the greater good.
Sorry, I only laugh because Iwas just thinking of one of my
favorite movies, Hot Fuzz, wherethey say the greater good, but
(51:21):
they're also they're allfascists who are saying that.
So that's why I kind of got, Iwas like, maybe don't say that.
Oh no.
Um, but it is for the bettergood.
The better, the better, thebetter good.
SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
The better, the better greater, the better,
greater good.
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
Um, oh my goodness.
Well, Christopher, this was sucha delight.
Thank you so much for coming inand sitting down with me and
chatting.
This was so fun andenlightening.
Uh, and it was great to finallyget to really get to know you
because at Williamstown we onlykind of saw each other in
passing.
SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
Um, but I have always been such a huge fan of
your work.
Um anything you want to promote?
Anything going on right now orthat or coming up in the coming
months?
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
I didn't even talk about this cool company that I'm
a part of, but I want to shoutout this company.
I'm a member of um the PAC uhtheater company, which is um a
group of performers we all metdoing wolf play at um a bunch of
theaters, but ultimately at MCCTheater.
And we created a company umthat's based on equity and is
(52:21):
based on kind of a new model ofuh developing work from the
ground up together and um givingourselves more autonomy in this
crazy, crazy world.
And I just want to say, if youlisten to this, that like maybe
by the time you this airs, wewill have some things buzzing.
But we we've made five at leastnew plays in the last three or
(52:43):
two and a half years.
Fantastic.
And um, we have uh a commissionthat we're starting with um MTC
and Arena Stage, a co-commissionbetween the two of them starting
later this month.
Um, and we were just at theGoodman at a new play festival.
But I think that in the nextyear or so we'll we'll probably
have a production slated,whether that be in in New York
or or regionally.
(53:03):
And so, you know, if you feellike Googling something, just
check out the pack.
Come check out some social pagethat we have.
And um, if we are doingsomething, come and come and see
us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much againfor coming on, Christopher.
Uh, well, that's it, folks.
That's the end of this week'sepisode.
We will see you next week.
Bye!
So I start my episodes off with like a little
thermal theater game just forfun.
Okay.
Um so you can choose from acouple of things, and then maybe
you can also help me uhestablish something or or or
figure out something that my uhmy partner Alexander and I were
debating this morning.
Okay, which is Tree or Stalin.
Did you ever play that atWilliamstown?
What is that?
Oh, okay, maybe not okay.
(00:21):
It's it's a g I'm terrible atit.
But it's uh it's a game whereone person thinks of something,
a person place or thing, uh-huh,and then uh the other person has
to guess what that is, but theyhave to guess it via like the
comparison between two things.
So you start with, is it closerto a tree or Stalin?
unknown (00:40):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
And then you choose from there, and then from there
you go, okay, let's say it's atree.
Uh you go, okay, is it a tree ora bush?
Bush, bush or a rock.
Oh, it's a rock.
And then that's how you play.
It is, it can be really easy orit can be infuriatingly hard.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
Wow.
And it can it could be like aperson, place, or thing.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Yeah, it can be any, it can even be like it can be
literally anything.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Wow.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
We don't have to do that.
Oh, wait, wait.
But you said there was a debate.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
Is is there a debate?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Oh, we oh, the debate was whether or not we
learned it at Williamstown.
Because I remember learning itat Williamstown, and she also
remembers learning it atWilliamstown, but she said that
she thought she had taught it tome because she said she had seen
it in a play at Williamstown.
It this is so in the weeds.
I didn't know Alexander went toWilliamstown.
Yeah, I did 2017, yeah.
(01:28):
Oh, okay.
Um but uh yeah, I was like, no,I think it I think it's just a
game that they play there.
Well, you're teaching me thisgame right now.
So I guess no.
No.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
I mean, but maybe, you know, a lot of things happen
at Williamstown that noteveryone's privy to.
SPEAKER_00 (01:42):
Or remembers.
So it's possible.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Okay, do you want to be theperson thinking of something or
or guessing?
I would rather guess.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Okay, I think if I have I think if I have to do
this, I should I shouldsacrifice myself.
Fair enough.
All right.
I got something.
Okay, so I say I say tree orStalin?
Correct, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Uh tree.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Okay, and then I have to say tree and then
something new.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
And then something new, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
What's further from Stalin?
Tree or or dictator.
Tree.
Tree.
Tree or uh two-legged thing.
Tree.
Wow.
Tree or oatmeal.
(02:31):
Tree.
Tree or flower.
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
I'm gonna say the the re I'm thinking so much, I
am like, should I gometaphorical here?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or I can I can see that in theroom.
I'm gonna say flower.
Why not?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Yeah, okay.
Flower or object.
Object.
Okay, sorry, the the the poetrydied.
Um did it.
Or did it.
Object.
This is gonna be the wholepodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
Trust me, I've cut down every single trio stalin
I've ever played.
It's object or feeling.
It certainly elicits feeling forme.
I'll say object still, though.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Maybe maybe this there's a way to do this that I
don't understand.
But I'm I'm okay.
You're saying object.
Um okay, because I'm I'm nocloser than I was with Stalin
and Sree.
Um object or uh place.
Place.
Whoa.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Place the the that should behelpful.
Okay.
(03:37):
Yeah, there's there's very fewplaces in the world.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's only like four or five.
We've got we've gotten there.
Um place or uh place or uh uhaddress.
Place.
(03:57):
Uh how do I guess it?
It's quite difficult.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
This game is tough.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Or like when I think I know what it is, do I like do
I do I stop?
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
I mean you'll say I'll tell you if you got it.
Because it it's like it's tryingto get you're trying to like
weed it down to a thing.
So now you have place.
I'll tell you, it is a placethat I'm thinking of.
It is a place.
Now it's just a matter offinding out what the place is.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
It's not Williamstown.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
It is Williamstown.
Oh, it is.
Well, there you go.
Okay.
Well that's what I'd make it alittle easy.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
You know what's easy.
We talk about something for fiveminutes, and then you're like,
let me just choose the thing wewere just talking about to make
it really easy for Chris.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
Well, honestly, I played one here that was like 20
minutes long because it wassomeone chose someone, uh, a
basketball player, and I waslike, I I so know so little
about sports.
Yeah.
And I felt so terrible.
So you did better than I didthat day.
I guess.
Were they trying to be mean?
No, they thought it was easy.
They thought it would be easy.
And at the end of the day, itsort of was.
It was LeBron James that theywere thinking of.
(04:54):
So it wasn't like totally out ofleft field.
I was just so lost in the weeds.
Yeah.
Um it's okay.
We're all lost.
Yeah.
We're all lost, John.
unknown (05:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
Welcome to the working class ads.
Thanks for having me, John.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
My name's Chris Banno, and I and I um and I do
theater and I do differentthings in theater, and I've
sometimes been hired to to doit.
Um and I live in New York City,and I have met people in other
places, like Williamstown, um,where we met, and uh I went to
(05:47):
school at places, um, I went toum Boston University, um, and I
went to Lambda, the LondonAcademy of Music and Dramatic
Arts.
Uh, and before that I went toECA, the Educational Uh Center
for Arts in in New Haven,Connecticut.
And then uh I also went to YaleUniversity for my master's in in
(06:11):
acting at also in New Haven, um,Connecticut.
I'm also from ish New Haven.
That's why I went to highschool.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:19):
It's Christopher Bannow, everybody.
He's right here.
Wow.
Um, wow, wait, okay.
So you went to a lot ofdifferent schools.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
I guess so.
SPEAKER_00 (06:28):
You said B U and the and Lambda and then Yale.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Well well, Lambda, it was like a semester abroad.
Oh, oh, I see, I see.
It was like a junior year youcould choose before they like I
I don't know if this is common,but they they kind of force you
to go abroad.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your junior year their secondsemester, they force all the
acting majors have to go toLambda.
I I I wasn't you must leave thecountry.
(06:52):
Kind of, yeah.
Like you have to study here.
I wasn't an acting major, I wasa theater arts major, which
basically was like a it was moreof like a you know, you you take
directing and playwriting and uhstage management and kind of
design classes, and you alsotake some gen ed classes and you
you can kind of create your ownas opposed to like a
conservatory.
Yeah.
But so through theater arts, youcould choose to go there or like
(07:16):
to the comedia.
There's there's this comedia inin I think it's Abruzzo, Italy,
which a couple of people it'slike a pretty well-known
program, but there was that,there was like this with um Jim
Um oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
Jim.
Jim Jim.
I don't know.
Jim Calder.
Jesus.
Jim Calder.
Well, he does he does, right?
Yeah, at NYU, and he does acomedia thing over I think it's
over the summer though.
This and you said this was asecond semester thing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:41):
This was, but I think it's a it's it has like a
life, I think it has a year, ayear-round life.
So maybe Jim is a part of it,potentially.
But anyway, there were lots ofoptions, and I ultimately kind
of chose to go with the actorsto to Lambda because I wanted I
wanted that and I wanted to bein London because I love I love
London so much.
Yeah.
(08:02):
It's I just want to get backthere, and I've I've tried, and
I actually I've almost succeededa couple times.
Um, but I I um I love it somuch.
So anyway, I I went to Lambda myjunior year, and then yeah, that
was all that.
And then I was in New York forlike a year.
Um, and then I met you atWilliamstown, and then
(08:23):
immediately after Williamstown,like it was like Williamstown
ended, and I went to orientationfor Yale, you know, to start to
start that program.
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
Oh, so you hadn't you hadn't hadn't started uh
when you were in atWilliamstown.
You were about to start.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
I was about to start.
Oh wow, okay.
I was I was newly, newly mintedas a as a Yalee.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean I only say that because honestly, dude,
you uh your work atWilliamstown, whenever I saw you
perform, you were one of myfavorite people to watch,
honestly.
It was uh I was like, this guy'sreally fucking good.
So to hear that you were thatgood even before Yale, I was
like, damn, this guy's thanks,John.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Yeah, dude.
I mean, you know, well, I don'tknow.
I don't know what any good, Idon't know what makes what makes
anyone good anymore.
I don't do I totally feel that.
But but the thing aboutWilliamstown, which is funny is
I auditioned the year before forthe non egg program.
And you know, it was like uh,hi, I'm Chris, here's my stuff.
They were like, Thank you.
Never heard from them.
Yeah.
And then the next year I go in,I do the exact same pieces, I
(09:21):
think, I think out of spite,because I was like, I want to
see something.
And then in my thing, I I waslike, Hi everyone, how's it
going?
Yeah, I just got into Yale and Idid the same pieces, and I swear
it was like the the it was likethe sun had risen and like I was
dewy, and all of a sudden it waslike, oh, oh wow, you know, and
(09:42):
I you felt like they were payingmore attention simply because
you had mentioned that billionthat sense that says so much,
which is why I said thing aboutlike what's good because I I
just I I feel like so much,especially vintage Williamstown.
It was like all about the shine.
Yeah, it was all about like theshiny object uh part of being an
actor.
And so I felt I am I gossiping?
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
No, dude, trust me.
I've had a couple other peopleon Williamstown.
We've gossiped.
Okay, it's totally fine.
Okay, I'll tell my stories aboutWilliamstown because I had a
very difficult time there.
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
Yeah, well, just like per person, uh
interpersonally, uh or not, Iguess not interpersonally, like
the people that I met werelovely.
It was more the culture of justlike, I mean, it's in the middle
of nowhere.
Yeah.
Um, I wasn't drinking at thetime um or doing anything like
that.
And like it's at the end of theday, like people would party and
like go and drink at bars andstuff like that.
And I was just like, uh, I justfelt kind of outside of the the
(10:36):
the culture or something for alittle while.
Um and also I was exhausted,like as an apprentice.
Oh Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
I was just talking to not to name drop, but you
know the playwright Beth Henley?
Yeah.
Um we we've like developed afriendship.
I've wondered a couple thingswith her, and she has this play
now at the Vineyard.
Bughouse, it's called.
I haven't seen it yet.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
No, uh Alexandra and I just saw just saw it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my god, it was so cool.
The the set and the artistry ofit all was really, really cool.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, Bethany.
SPEAKER_01 (11:08):
Well, no, I was just talking to her.
I don't know why we weretalking.
Oh, because we we were talkingabout she's written a couple
plays and I've done readings ofthem, and she was like, Where do
you think you know this couldhappen or whatever?
And she brought up Williamstown,and I was like, Beth, it's not,
it isn't, it doesn't existanymore.
And she was like, Yeah, whathappened?
And I kind of said the wholething, you know, I was like, you
know, the whole like the wholeuh unpaid labor part of it.
(11:29):
Yeah.
Actually, no, the paying to belabored.
Paying to be unpaid labor.
Yeah.
Uh is kind of is kind of whatwhat stunk it.
Yeah.
She was like, What?
It's like, yeah, that's the onlyway that place ever existed is
because you had, I mean, howmany apprentices?
It was like six.
There was a lot.
50-ish?
Yeah, something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:48):
Every summer that would pay to and you know, like
you you paid, I mean, I guess Iguess summer camps charge money,
but you know, it you're likeit's it's also like, well, a
school also charges you moneyand you're learning, and like
you don't necessarily make moneyfrom like the shows you do
there.
Yeah.
But it's like it we would dolike it was non-stop while you
(12:08):
were there.
And like you would have to doovernight strikes and stuff like
that, and it was just like,well, this is is this what I
signed up for?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
Um also like you like paid to like I mean, I mean
part of it, like let's behonest, part of that place,
people would go there becausethey knew they could like they
could pick young people up.
Uh uh yeah.
I mean, uh like surely I mean Idon't know that for a like a
fact.
I don't have like the the likethe the hard evidence, but yeah,
(12:39):
I mean people would come becausethey knew that they there was a
a lot of young people who wantedto spend time with the more
famous people, and then thefamous people I mean I we won't
we won't say names on thispodcast, but I know I don't know
if it was your summer or thenope, it was your summer.
I know I'm I know what happenedwith people and places and
(12:59):
things.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Oh my god.
Wait, we'll talk about that offoff air, maybe more.
Or I don't know.
Yeah.
Um yeah.
No, but I I totally I totallyfeel you.
And like like I was just saying,like the because the play it's
so isolated, it's just likethere's nothing else to do.
I I don't know.
Like it's it's it was such aweird, it was such a weird
atmosphere.
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
And saying that, it also gave me so many uh things
in my career that I wouldn'thave otherwise.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
Yeah.
Oh, and but this was the thing,then this is the thing too.
Like um uh the theapprenticeship in particular was
like such a bizarre experiencebecause it's like you're they
kind of sell you on this notionof like you come here, you get
to like you'll learn all likeall the different aspects of
theater.
And I suppose that's true.
But also like you still had toaudition for things, and like if
(13:47):
you didn't get into things, youcould go the whole summer
without performing.
You could.
Um, I was very fortunate to bein the cabaret in one of the ten
uh 10 minute plays.
Um but I know some people whodidn't who who didn't get the
any of those opportunities,maybe a 10-minute, but like it
nothing was guaranteed.
Yeah.
Uh and that always that's sortof like that's so bums me out.
(14:07):
And that's something that likeeven in educational
institutions, like uh, you know,my undergrad where I I I learned
quite a bit, but they didn'thave um this uh I always think
there needs to be a a certainlevel of a quota at an
educational institution soeveryone's getting the same
amount to work with.
Because I know some people in myundergrad who went through and
(14:30):
only got to do one show in thefour years that they were there.
And I'm just like, I don't andand the excuse that always comes
up is well, it's preparing youfor the real world.
In the real world, you might getrejected.
I'm like, let the real world dothat on its own.
It'll do that on its own.
Like give people at least achance coming out of here
(14:50):
because like if they don't havelike stuff on the resume or like
any experience, then you're notgiving them any chance to
thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Um what part of what part of rejecting someone helps
them become a better actor?
SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
That's what I that that's the thing too.
I'm like, I'm like, maybe thatlook, we all have to deal we all
have to deal with rejection inour lives.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like that's a human thing we allgo through.
So yes, I totally agree.
I don't think it helps at all.
Like, if you're in aneducational institution, you
should be given as manyopportunities as possible to
figure out if it's for you andlike to build your skill.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah.
Um otherwise it's just a scam.
Well, so John, but we've bothbeen through higher education.
We both we both spent a lot oftime learning how to act.
And so let me let me pose thisquestion to you on your own
podcast.
Oh, I love this.
Do you think do you think it doyou think it added up?
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Do you think that the Um It's it's See the thing
is I feel very fortunate andthat I was I I didn't fall
through those cracks as much asI know some other people did.
Um w for whatever reason.
Um but i i I mean, I've had I'vehad several years where I've not
(16:03):
been working and it just sucks.
It just sucks to be away fromthis thing that you love and
fulfills you and is such anessential good for our country,
especially now when thedivisions are so so apparent.
Um And so I I don't know.
(16:23):
I I think it's it's I think thebigger question is like why is
there so little access?
Why why does why do the artsevery year, like in so many
different ways, get less andless funding and becomes less
and less important?
Um I've always said this.
(16:43):
I don't know where I heard this,and it's it's gonna be a real
downer, people, but I thinkAmerica loves art.
Okay.
It hates artists.
Let that sink in everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
I'm trying to think of like the equivalent to that
of like America loves bakedgoods, but they hate bakers.
I don't know why that's thefirst thing that can be a good
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
No, but it's good, but it's a good comparison.
You have to compare it to otherindustries, or else what's the
point?
Um but it's like, and that'ssuch a downer.
I try not to think about thatevery day of my life.
Uh-huh.
But it's I do think there issome.
I mean, just looking at thiscurrent administration, like
there's nothing, it does notsupport free speech of any kind.
(17:36):
And just I mean, the NationalEndowment of the Arts like no
longer exists.
Yeah.
Um Yeah.
Yeah.
But anyway, back to you, Chris.
Oh no, I mean, we're bothsitting here.
No, I love it.
I do appreciate you asking methat question, though.
It's it's uh it's rare that Iget m interviewed on my own
(17:56):
podcast, which is great.
Happy to help.
Um, but anyway, let's bring itback to the beginning.
Okay, Christopher.
You so you grew up inConnecticut, you said?
Yeah?
Yeah.
New Haven-ish.
New Haven-ish.
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
I grew up all over kind of the Metro North line.
So I was born in Bridgeport, andthen I lived in Westport for a
tad, then Stratford, thenMilford, then New Haven,
adjacent or New Haven.
Sure.
So you so yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Wow.
Popped around a little.
So where did you get theproverbial bug?
When were you bit?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Well, early, yeah, like super early.
So uh the reason we lived aroundthere is my mom and my dad both
worked in theater.
Oh, great.
My mom was an actor, and my dador i is still, but was an actor,
my dad is a drummer.
Oh, cool.
And there was this theatercalled the Downtown Cabaret
Theater in Bridgeport,Connecticut, which is kind of
like a weird old I don't thinkit's still around, but it's it
(18:47):
obviously it's gone through manyiterations since.
But like I think it's where theAmerican premiere of Blood
Brothers happened.
Okay, which was a musical that Ithink it's British.
Um, and they had like a bunch ofI don't know, they had like some
I think it was like a placewhere like New York actors would
go and there'd be like a busthat would take you from the
city to Bridgeport, you'd do theshow and you'd catch the bus
(19:08):
back.
And I think it was like a it wasa like a thing in like the 80s
and 90s, and so my parentsworked there, and so there's
this video.
My mom, they also they did a lotof children's theater.
Um and my mom was always a partof them.
Um, and she would often like subin for shows so she would get
like the script and she get arecording of the of the tape.
(19:30):
And there's this video of mewatching the tape on the TV that
she had obviously learned andwatched a bunch of times, and I
had seen it so many times that Ihad memorized all the lines of
the prince in this thing, and Iit was me like looking at the
tape, and like when he wouldenter, I would like kind of walk
a little more to the right, andthen I would say the words
watching him, and then he wouldleave and I would kind of exit
(19:50):
off the off the quote unquotestage.
So I like grew up seeing my momact, and basically I grew up
backstage at this at this onetheater, like it wasn't like
general theater, it was like atheater was my you know, like
kind of like a home for myfamily.
So I I started taking camp whenI was about seven because my mom
(20:14):
also taught at a at a theatercalled Music Theater of
Connecticut, which was inWestport.
They have some cool alums.
I mean, you know, Justin Paulfrom Pesic and Paul, like who
David Hansen.
Of course.
I like grew up doing shows withhim.
Oh, very cool.
Um, some like filmmakers, somewriters, yeah, like a bunch of
people that I grew up with allare still in theater.
Um that's awesome.
(20:34):
But so I started taking classesin camps there, and it just kind
of stuck.
Like I I just there'd be pointsin my life where it'd be like
I'd have to choose betweensports camp and theater camp.
Sure.
I chose theater camp.
And then when I got older, itwas like between being in a band
and doing shows, and Iultimately chose doing shows.
And then I went to thisperforming arts high school uh
(20:57):
in New Haven.
It was like a normal school fromseven to twelve thirty, and then
I'd take a bus and go to thearts school from like one to
four.
Nice.
And so I did that, and so yeah,I just kept I always kept
choosing theater, which is crazybecause now I'm old and I'm just
like, this is all I've everdone.
(21:17):
That's fantastic though.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, maybe, yeah.
(22:03):
I was always very aware howunglamorous it was.
Like my parents were, you know,they weren't they weren't like
they weren't like making a tonof money.
Um they always they and they hadother jobs.
Like my mom taught aerobics, mydad worked in construction and
sold insurance, and they hadmany other jobs.
And so I was I was very like Iwas very humble being like, I'm
not gonna like this is this isthe life.
(22:25):
Yeah, the life that that one canlive doing this.
But I I just kind of I justloved it.
And I should say it too.
I was very shy as a kid.
Um You were very shy as a kid,you say?
Very, very shy.
And so I wouldn't really talk.
Talk a lot, but on stage I I Ifelt I felt okay to talk.
I felt okay to kind of letloose.
And so maybe part of it was alsolike, you know, I need this or
(22:48):
this gives me something.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
Yeah.
Do you feel like if you hadn't,if your your family hadn't been
in the arts and the theater asmuch, do you feel like you would
have you would have gravitatedto the theater as quickly as you
did?
Never.
I don't I don't I really don'tyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
I really don't think so because I I was so shy.
I don't think I would have knownthat that outlet exists did.
I like I I love I love math.
I love numbers, I love likeboring things.
I like like nothing is moresatisfying than like getting
like a page of equations andlike spending time to finish the
(23:22):
equation and then like hand inyour assignment or whatever.
I think that's so exciting.
My teacher in high schoolthought I was gonna go into like
math.
Yeah.
And then one day, like they likemet my parents for like a
conference, and I think theyfound out that I wasn't gonna do
that, and they were really like,Oh, I are you sure?
Um so yeah, I don't think Iwould have I don't necessarily
(23:43):
know that I would have found itif my if my mom and dad hadn't
been so kind of entrenched init.
Yeah, yeah.
Um which is which is maybe I canblame them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
Yeah, yeah.
But always blame your parents.
Always blame your parents.
Yeah.
It always works.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
Yeah.
Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
And so you you grew up doing th theater, you went to
a performing arts high school.
Yeah, yeah.
What what is that like?
I I because I grew up in apublic school system and like
our our theater program actuallyat my public school is was
pretty decent, was pretty good.
Um, but it what is thedifference?
Are you taking theater classesthroughout the day and stuff
like that, and then also somegen eds on the side or what have
(24:21):
you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:21):
And yeah, I mean the theater, the the the arts high
school was just it was like justarts.
It was amazing.
Oh wow I honestly I don't knowthat I would have gotten through
high school without it.
No, I mean I I would take thatstuff at my from my normal
school.
I don't know math.
Like I I would cram all theclasses in kind of in the first
part of the day so that theywere and then we left early to
(24:42):
do the the art stuff.
So it like added some of ournecessary elective requirements,
you know, for our school so wecould graduate.
But but no, it was just art.
I I I loved it so much, and Ihonestly felt even at the time,
I was like, this is amazing thatI get to do this stuff.
And you know, probably in ahorrible way, it made me feel
(25:04):
like I knew so much when I wentto college because I was like,
I've been taking you know, likeI mean, we we we took like
Michael Chekhov classes in highschool.
I took like mask work.
I that's fantastic.
We got to we took like theaterfor social change and we would
do improv and we would do voiceand LeBan and like we did all
this stuff as 15, 16 year olds.
And you know, we don't knowanything about ourselves or our
(25:26):
bodies or like my I remember mymonologue for it was like a
Charlie Brown monologue where hehas the bag over his head in in
lunch.
Like you know, I'm I'm like aneighth grade auditioning, and
somehow I think that that's likeand then I'm just like I know so
much now because I went to theschool, I will cause social
change.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, but but we felt that way,and yeah, honestly, absolutely
(25:48):
the fact that that school couldhelp us feel like we had some
autonomy and some agency in likein affecting the world through
art, I think was probably thebiggest gift it could have given
us, you know.
Um, that I really felt like Iwas an artist when I was 16, 17,
and like I was uh amongst it,which I think is sometimes the
(26:11):
hardest thing.
Uh and you know, I constantlyhave to re-find it, but you
know, the the confidence of likeI I am a storyteller, I know how
to do this and I and I believein this.
I think that I've lost that somany times in my life and had to
re find it in different moments,and it doesn't matter how much
you've done or how much trainingyou have or you know what what
(26:34):
accolades you've gotten, you youstill I think that you you come
against that um as an artist.
You're just like I yeah, do Ihave do I know what I'm doing?
And like am I do I believe inmyself any anymore?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
I I do I feel that so hard.
I've been going through thatlike uh like every other day.
Like to today I I have a callback for something that I really
want to get.
Um, but that's been runningthrough my head.
This like, am I worthy of thisplace that I'm like going in
for?
Yeah.
Um and then it's like, yeah, ofcourse I am.
It's a weird mental gymnastics.
(27:07):
It's like one day it's strong,one day it's not, and both are
okay, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Yeah.
Can I share this one littlething?
Just please.
If this helps you at all, pleaseI recently heard this and I was
like, I like that.
Uh also you mentioned basketballat the beginning of this.
I don't know if that'll make thecut.
But this basketball player umwho played one game in the NBA,
he he wrote this little thingwhere he was like, you know,
that one game I played it reallysafe because it was like my
(27:34):
first time doing it.
And in hindsight, I wish I hadlike gone for 50 points.
I wish I had done everythingbecause he played that one game
safe and then he was cut fromthe team.
Basically, he was like, youknow, even if I had missed every
single shot I took, the same endresult would have been, I would
have been cut.
Yeah.
So and he said the mindset washe was approaching it like, will
I will I fail?
And he has since then went intofinance, and because it was
(27:58):
something that he hadn't trainedfor his whole life and didn't
feel the pressure for, yeah, hesimply was like, for finance, he
he said like he approached everyday, like, oh, will I succeed?
Yeah.
And that simple thing of just,you know, going into a thing,
being like, Oh, will I actuallysucceed today?
Yeah.
And that hopeful optimismpeeking through as opposed to
the holding onness of like, am Igonna put one thing in the wrong
(28:21):
place and fail or am I gonnaanyway?
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
No, I think that's lovely.
It's so interesting.
Like, that is so true.
I feel like it's it, I wonderwhere human beings get this,
like if this is inherently humanor if it's something we have
like injected into our ourselvesin a toxic manner, the the
notion of that question, will Ifail versus the will I succeed?
(28:46):
Like, is that inherent or isthat something we've taught
ourselves in uh uh as like a badhabit?
Yeah.
Um so performing arts highschool, you go on to wait, so
you you go on to where'd you go?
Boston University.
Boston University, yes, BostonUniversity.
Went through Lambda, yeah, andthen you told everyone you went
(29:07):
to Yale, you went toWilliamstown, then you went to
Yale.
How was your time there uh atthat very prestigious
university?
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
I loved it.
Yeah.
I so loved it.
I mean, this was, you know, inthe 2010s, like there's 11, 2011
to 2014.
So it's obviously changed somuch, and also just the world
has changed so much since then.
So there were definitely issueswith it in terms of like
representation and in terms ofwho was teaching and in terms of
how I don't know.
And the school I think has donea lot to grapple with that in
(29:39):
the years since that I've heardfrom you know people who teach
there and have gone there.
Um, but I I truthfully had agreat time there.
Fantastic.
I feel like I feel like Ilearned how to be a better human
by going to school, and that'sultimately the stuff that I
think I try to hold on to.
Yeah.
And I just met the mostinspiring artists and amazing
(30:02):
people that I continue to workwith to this day, and I, you
know, I just loved, I love Ilove a container.
Uh-huh.
I that's I I mean, I loveTupperware too, but I love I
love it, I love a set ofparameters, be it like a
schedule or uh a set of peoplethat you have to work with.
I just find like, you know, thatit just unlocks something in me.
(30:25):
And some of the trouble I have,I think being a artist floating
around in New York is that therearen't as many containers.
There's not as many parameters,and so I don't know always where
to put my energy or kind of whatto what to what to sum it into.
But in a school environment, Ijust feel like I I get it.
And like I start kind of likeclicking in ways that I that I
(30:46):
um am thinking less and justdoing more.
It was also really hard.
I had like some of the hardestexperiences of my life at school
and felt fell into deepdepression, but ultimately I
like I loved the experience ofit.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's that you know, I itlike there's no repertory
companies anymore, and I Ireally wish there were because
like that notion of like theensemble of it all is so that is
one of the best parts aboutbeing a part of a um you know a
cohort like uh in in school isyou get to know all these people
(31:18):
and getting to know them reallyhelps you connect more and that
only helps the work get better.
Um, but yeah, like you said,it's like when you're in New
York City or just anywhere now,there's there's not many
repertory companies, so it'slike every new cast is a
completely new group of peopleyou have to get to know.
Yeah, which can be overwhelming,but also exciting because it's
(31:38):
new people, it's always nice tomeet new people.
Um yeah, there is somethingabout like the ensemble that I I
really miss from just from myown time at NYU and even at
Adelphi.
Um oh wait, so why at your timeat Yale, uh was James Bundy was
there, it was PFJ, Peter FrancisJames.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
PFJ, Ron Van Lu, Evan Eunulis, who now runs
Juilliard, uh Erica Faye, uh uhum Faye Simpson, who now is at
NYG.
SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
Yeah, she's been there for for a few years now,
yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Um Walton, I mean yeah, we just we had such a I
yeah, I loved the teachers.
I just felt taken care of, and II just I just so appreciated
kind of that we had that spaceto kind of fail and try and fail
and try.
And yeah.
And um, I don't know, like in mymind too, it's like you know,
Yale has such a reputation ofbeing like such a a stuck up
(32:35):
place.
I I think or so sometimes I'veheard that like people from Yale
are just the same thing of NYU.
Oh, well, it's a it's a weirdthing.
I mean, there's things, youknow, sure.
Uh right.
There's a chip on your shoulder,be like, oh, I went to the
school, so therefore I know morethan than you do or whatever.
And and I I love everything I Ilearned there, but like, you
know, if someone kind of freshto New York was like, should I
(32:56):
go to grad school?
Like, it's not it doesn'tdoesn't doesn't like it doesn't
solve any of your issues.
No.
It gives you it gives you moreum ways to problem solve.
Sure.
But it doesn't take away any ofyour deficiencies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
Like like still trying to get a job out here,
you know.
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
Of course we are, of course.
And it's and it's so tricky tonavigate, yeah, being an artist,
and ultimately none of themreally teach you what that
means.
They give you tools in aclassroom, but in terms of like
living your life as an artist,that's up that's up to you to
decide and yeah figure out.
SPEAKER_00 (33:31):
Well, that's a perfect segue into like what how
was your time coming right outof Yale?
Like, did you find did you feellike you could hit the ground
running, or did you feel likethere was some dips or well?
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
I was so lucky.
We mentioned Williamstown.
So my my summer after I wentthere two summers in a row.
Oh, really?
I didn't know that.
I went there after you um and Idid free theater again.
I did uh Sherlock Holmes.
Oh, cool.
I played Watson.
Oh button.
And the crazy thing is when theywhen they asked me to come back
and do that, I had this like,oh, they want me to do free
(34:05):
theater again.
Like I was already outdoorsdoing free theater for families.
Like, surely they want me tolike play a role in one of the
shows or whatever.
And I was there was part of methat was like so like indignant
for the first day.
Uh-huh.
But it was with Lila Neugebauerdirecting.
Oh my god.
I mean, you know, now she's nowshe's world famous.
Incredible.
But at the time, I was justlike, I mean, I I loved Lila
(34:26):
because she was a a directingintern that year, but I was
like, with Lila and that, like,I don't know if that's really
what I want to do with mysummer.
Yeah.
And I was like, come on, Chris,like, it's gonna be so fun.
It was so fun.
And also that summer, JordanFine was there, who is now a
Olivier nominated director manytimes over, and he directed me
(34:47):
and my friend Mama Doo in ZooStory, and we did it.
And Scott Ellis and BradleyCooper came to very cool, and
like two days later, I got castin Elephant Man there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
I was gonna say again, another perfect segue
because I saw that productionand it was fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
It was it was so much fun to do at Williamstown,
and that was between my firstand second year, and there were
like rumblings of it moving toBroadway, but I was like, I'm
still in school, and like Iyeah, I'm not gonna like I'm not
gonna leave.
I I knew enough that I was like,I don't think I really want to
leave school to do this one showwhere I had like a you know,
like a scene basically, a smallrole.
And I was like, I just feel likeschool, I don't know, I want to
(35:26):
finish it.
Yeah, and like March of my thirdyear, I get a call or email from
Calary being like, Hey Chris,checking your availability for
uh a fall Broadway run ofElephant Man.
Oh my god.
And I was just like, uh I getthat email every day.
I'm I'm available.
James Clary.
And um, and then like a daylater, I get the offer.
(35:50):
Oh my god, that's awesome.
This is before showcase, it'sbefore everything.
So I just was like, Oh, I'mgonna be on Broadway.
Wow.
With these amazing people in theshow.
So I graduated and actually, andI and I did a like a show at the
Berkshires, and then I did a asmaller show off off, and then
we started rehearsal, I don'tknow, in October or whatever.
And and it was the gift thatkept on giving because we did it
(36:13):
that winter, and then somewherein like January, they call us
before uh a show, all on stage,and Scott Ellis, the director,'s
there, and he's like, Heyeveryone, so um we're moving the
show to London and we want youall to come with us.
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Yeah, I was gonna say it did have a West End run.
It did have a West End run.
SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
So, and we all were just like, Oh my god.
Um then we closed, I don't know,like February or March, and and
then I think that like June weall started rehearsal in London.
We ran through that August,which is just to say that like I
I I felt like a I felt like alike a like a magical fairy
being.
I was like, I did the show forfree at Williamstown, and it
(36:53):
gave me my job out of school,and then it's taking me to the
West End, which as I saidearlier, I love London.
Yeah, and so I got to live offRegents Park and like walk
through Soho to the theater inthat summer, and we like it was
so idyllic, it was so beautiful.
And at that time, I met Holly,who is my wife now, and we we
met kind of in a magical momentaround all this stuff happening.
(37:16):
And like she was living in NewZealand, and when I was in
London, I like she came to seeme and I, you know, was had all
this stuff happening, so I gotto take her out to all these
places, and it just felt likethis moment where I was like,
all dreams come true, tralala.
And then and then I didn't work,you know.
(37:37):
And then I and then I fell intodepression and had no money and
didn't work.
But the first year out ofschool, yeah, it was like
constant work with people that Iadmired, and so many friendships
and exploration and meeting thelove of love of my life and like
traveling across the world tosee each other.
It was really truly not what Ithought my life would be at that
(38:01):
time.
And I was just like, like itmade me it made me believe in
God a little bit.
Yeah, it made me believe in Goda little bit because I was just
like the the the work less so,but meeting meeting Holly was
like, Yeah, how what is life?
Yeah, what what what is life?
SPEAKER_00 (38:15):
Um all around one decision to go and do a free
show at Williamstown.
SPEAKER_01 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, that really that really it really set
off so many, so many things.
So, you know, I can shit talkWilliamstown and also I can sit
here and be like, I owe it somuch of my of my life.
Totally.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Oh my god, there's a movie there.
There's there's a movie there.
Yeah.
Let's do this, let's producethis, we'll make this happen.
SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
Well, you know, my my how we met, my wife and I.
Yeah, I won't go into the thedirty, dirty details, but but
this is actually the movie, isthat she was with her friends
for her bachelorette week.
She was gonna marry someone.
Oh my god, that's so cliche.
It's cliche.
And for part of her bacheloretteweek ceremonies, because she had
never ever done any onlinedating or Tinder anything, they
(39:02):
made her make a profile and theysaid, You have to go on one
Tinder date as part of yourBachelorette week.
And she made a profile, and shematched with me, and she was
like, I'll go on a date withthis guy.
And they all came on the date,all of her friends with her.
And I showed up.
They came with her on the date.
Yeah, it was like six of them.
Did you know that was gonnahappen?
Oh my god.
(39:22):
I didn't know any of this.
I was just like, whatever.
(39:47):
Perfect, like wrong.
It's all there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh anyway, that is that is howthat is how we met.
SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
That is incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (39:56):
So it and then obviously many other things
happened after that.
Yeah.
Um, which you'll have to you'llhave to subscribe to Paramount
Plus when the movie is streamingto see what happens.
But uh making millions ofdollars.
I shouldn't promote Paramount.
What a horrible company.
Sorry, you can it'll be it'llbe.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
What's an ethical our own independent production
streaming and productioncompany?
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know if it exists, butwe'll we'll create it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Oh my god.
Anyway, so oh that's incrediblethough, dude.
Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy,crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (40:27):
Choose a number one through seven.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
I'm gonna choose seven.
SPEAKER_00 (40:30):
Seven?
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
What do you believe is the actor's responsibility in
civil activism in an industrythat is about humanity?
SPEAKER_01 (40:42):
I mean, I I don't have a intelligent answer for
this at all, so uh uh I'm alsojust like a white sis male, you
know, so I I I I answer thisknowing that like I I bring what
I bring to the table and I lookup to the people who are more
civically engaged than I am andwhose identity is literally, you
(41:03):
know, in the in the cross in thecrosshairs of of our current
time and and and living.
So I I can't pretend to know asmuch uh through my own lived
experience, but I can say thisthat I I I do I do believe in
(41:24):
theater so much, and the reasonI believe in it is because it's
a place where we ask manydifferent people, hopefully of
many different backgrounds, tocome together and to
collectively listen to onestory.
What that story is, is slowlybut surely expanding, and we're
including more stories for ageneral audience to listen to.
(41:47):
We're still really grapplingwith that.
We're also still reallygrappling with how do we bring
in an audience that is way moreexpansive than you know the the
middle class white 50 to 70 yearold subscribers, the brimer
generation.
And I just I appreciate all theinstitutions that are working so
hard to change both of thosedemographics, the stories that
(42:09):
were told on stage, who'swriting these stories, who's in
these stories, what bodies arewe seeing telling stories, and
then also who are we bringinginto the theater and how are we
expanding access to that?
Um I I think that those twothings are so important, and as
actors we have so little controlover most of that stuff, right?
And so I think the things thatwe do have control over as
(42:33):
actors is like do I actuallywant to tell this story?
And do I think that the story isworth telling when we choose
jobs?
Yeah, this is crazy actually.
Remembering this, I got asked toaudition for a show way back
when, and it was to play likelike a full-on Arab character.
(42:55):
It was really and I was like, Iremember this is you know in in
2000, I don't even remember whenthis was, 2010, 2011 or
something.
And I remember at the time beinglike, I'm confused.
I maybe don't have like the likelike the verbiage to express
this right now, but I'm like,this isn't okay.
And and and I I only said no tothe audition.
(43:17):
Yeah, and it was the first timewhere I was like, I need work, I
need money, I have no money, Ihave no work, but this work and
money isn't my work or money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I need to make a decisionright now to to support that.
Yeah.
And often our only power as anactor, if we are, you know,
(43:38):
being asked to tell stories, isto we give our yes or we give
our yes or no.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, yeah.
And by giving our yes, we say, Isupport you, ex-institution,
telling Z story at this time tothis audience, and I will throw
my hat in to help be the thing.
Or no is for whatever reason Idon't, this isn't a part of my
my my journey.
(43:59):
Yeah.
Um and I think that it's hardbecause we're all we all want to
work, but it it's reallyimportant that we don't support
these things that are, you know,either ignorant of what they're
doing or worse, are justpandering to try to I don't
(44:20):
know, please some level ofdonors or some I I feel that
remnants of the past.
SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also just like the themisrepresentation of it all,
it's just like it's a it's aliteral whitewash.
Yeah.
Um, it's so interesting youbring that up because I I I I
remember this one instance whereI was offered an audition where
they were like, we need someonewho can speak uh uh Hebrew, and
you'll be playing this personwho can speak that.
And I'm like, I don't speakHebrew at all.
Uh and they're like, but youlook like the character.
(44:47):
And I'm just like, I don't speakthis language, it's not my
language, and it it it's it'sjust gonna be a waste of
everyone's time.
I don't care that I look likethe this character, I'm not
this.
Person, so it's not going to beauthentic.
It's not worth uh trying to likeforce people to believe that uh
(45:09):
I am like this person, and um Idon't know.
I think I I think also like inthe past the the notion of and
this still exists, especiallylike in the film industry world,
uh the notion of like thetransformative actor, like doing
something that's so not yourexperience and making it seem
(45:31):
authentic.
I'm like, yeah, but there arepeople out there who that is
their experience, and it couldhave been just natural to them
if you gave them the theopportunity to perform it.
Yeah, it's just the whitewashingof of things that really like
gets to me at times, and I'mjust like, Well, what like it's
going back, it's going back tolike this discussion, this that
(45:52):
feeling that you had when youwere a kid, and the social
change of it all is just likebecause social change can be for
good or bad.
For sure, you know, for sure.
It's like, so if I choose to dothis thing, I am choosing to say
that my interpretation ofsomeone else's experience,
authentic experience, is morevaluable and more valid in the
(46:12):
theater than their authenticexperience.
Yeah, you know, and it's likethat doesn't sit right, you
know.
No, it doesn't make me think ofthat.
And that's the tough thing aboutbeing an actor because you do
have to change, quote unquote,yourself sometimes for a part.
SPEAKER_01 (46:25):
For sure.
Yeah.
And and also you have to acceptthat like you can change all you
want, but if like the personcasting it doesn't see that in
you or doesn't want it in you,then that's fine too.
Yeah.
This actor Danny Wallahan, I Idon't remember, I don't know why
this sticks out to me, but Iremember it was some point in
like the you know, some pointthat in 2016 or 2018 when like,
you know, people were reallyactively trying to diversify
(46:46):
roles and they were trying to,you know, bring in more people
of color and like differentethnicities into into roles and
on on stages because it was Imean, maybe maybe maybe this was
actually more we we see you whattime.
So it was like at post that.
But I remember like Dannyposting this thing somewhere,
just being like, white actors,stop complaining that like, oh,
they're just casting someone ofcolor.
(47:07):
Like, can you just accept thatyou or like stop using that as
an excuse?
Like, just be better actors.
Yeah.
Can you just like can can whitemen just be better actors as
opposed to complaining that likethey're not getting jobs because
people don't want to see like awhite man on stage or like
because they're like losing outto someone just because you know
someone else represents adifferent culture community that
(47:27):
that is woefully underserved inour community?
Yeah.
And I just loved it because itwas just like, can you just
fucking like just be good andstop relying on like
institutional racism to get youwork?
Yeah, yeah.
And like, yes, like please, likelet me get cast less because
someone in a chair of authorityrealizes that they've cast a
(47:48):
show that's entirely white orentirely whatever, and they're
just like, I don't think that weshould just slouch towards
complacency.
Yeah, we need to have someagency in like who we're
choosing to tell stories, butyeah, on stage, on screen, like
wherever, yeah, like onpodcasts.
It's just like we just we justhave to do better.
And so, like as actors, we don'thave the authority to like make
(48:10):
those decisions, but we can bealigned with some understanding
of like where we are and likeall the privilege that you know
you and I have, and and tellstories and also like I don't
know, support the places and thepeople that are like engaging
civically and are at leaststriving to fight against like
(48:33):
what happens when when wellfrankly, like when there's fear
or when there's complacency,which I think you know there is
a lot of fear right now withlike yeah, money and
institutions and funding.
You mentioned the NEA and likeyeah, places are programming
really safe things because ithas DI DEI and anything, and you
know, the grants get get thrownout, or like or the the
(48:53):
institution might not get moneyand people have you know their
priorities, but I just feel likeI just feel like surely, surely
there's there's at least there'sat least some value in like uh
making small choices that alignwith your values.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (49:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the thing is it's like evenright now, during this time that
we're we're currently in wherelike funding for the arts is
really not great.
Um and I say great uh in a veryitalicized um there's this quote
I'm gonna paraphrase the hellout of this.
(49:31):
Uh Ibrahim X Kennedy has a bookcalled Stamped from the
Beginning, and in the beginningof it, uh he talks about like
progress isn't a one, it isn'tit isn't like a just adding,
adding, adding, adding, adding.
It's it takes place in thesesort of pockets where one thing
will progress, and then thatother thing that had progressed
(49:53):
will recede, but this otherthing progresses, and then it's
just back and forth.
And over time, you can seethrough history, that's why we
learn history, where, oh yeah,we have progressed through time
in this way and progressedthrough this industry, and
things have gotten better incertain ways.
It's it's about like keepingyour attention on these things
and also to to connect it towhat you were saying.
(50:17):
The the notion of like it takesthose what might seem like small
choices to shift ourunderstanding of things.
Like when white actors come outand say like they're they're
just doing it for DEI or likeit's whatever, and it's like,
no, you're actually what you'reexperiencing right now is
equity.
(50:37):
Yeah, yeah, like what you'reexperiencing right now is the
great entitlement you have beenprivileged to have, whether you
were conscious of it or not.
Right.
And now it's forcing you to haveto evolve, yeah.
And you don't like that.
Yeah.
And it I look, I'll admit, as awhite person who has grown up in
(50:58):
America, I recognize that I havebiases and was raised in a
racist community.
It's something you have to facein yourself, and it's really
hard, especially when you'reolder.
Um, but it is it is all for thegreater the greater good.
Sorry, I only laugh because Iwas just thinking of one of my
favorite movies, Hot Fuzz, wherethey say the greater good, but
(51:21):
they're also they're allfascists who are saying that.
So that's why I kind of got, Iwas like, maybe don't say that.
Oh no.
Um, but it is for the bettergood.
The better, the better, thebetter good.
SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
The better, the better greater, the better,
greater good.
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
Um, oh my goodness.
Well, Christopher, this was sucha delight.
Thank you so much for coming inand sitting down with me and
chatting.
This was so fun andenlightening.
Uh, and it was great to finallyget to really get to know you
because at Williamstown we onlykind of saw each other in
passing.
SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:52):
Um, but I have always been such a huge fan of
your work.
Um anything you want to promote?
Anything going on right now orthat or coming up in the coming
months?
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
I didn't even talk about this cool company that I'm
a part of, but I want to shoutout this company.
I'm a member of um the PAC uhtheater company, which is um a
group of performers we all metdoing wolf play at um a bunch of
theaters, but ultimately at MCCTheater.
And we created a company umthat's based on equity and is
(52:21):
based on kind of a new model ofuh developing work from the
ground up together and um givingourselves more autonomy in this
crazy, crazy world.
And I just want to say, if youlisten to this, that like maybe
by the time you this airs, wewill have some things buzzing.
But we we've made five at leastnew plays in the last three or
(52:43):
two and a half years.
Fantastic.
And um, we have uh a commissionthat we're starting with um MTC
and Arena Stage, a co-commissionbetween the two of them starting
later this month.
Um, and we were just at theGoodman at a new play festival.
But I think that in the nextyear or so we'll we'll probably
have a production slated,whether that be in in New York
or or regionally.
(53:03):
And so, you know, if you feellike Googling something, just
check out the pack.
Come check out some social pagethat we have.
And um, if we are doingsomething, come and come and see
us.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much againfor coming on, Christopher.
Uh, well, that's it, folks.
That's the end of this week'sepisode.
We will see you next week.
Bye!
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